INDEX

                     Permits and Technology Subcommittee Papers
                                March 20 - 22, 1991

         Document Number     Title

              P-20           Permits and Technologies Conference Call   1
                              Minutes January 22, 1991
              p~21           Subcommittee Meeting Minutes at the Omni   9
                               Shorham, January 28, 1991
              p~22           Principles for Acid Rain Permits           39
              p-23           Fact Sheet:  Reduced Utilization           47
              p~24           Topics Covered in Acid Rain Permit         53
                              Regulations
              P-25           Primer on the Clean Water Act Permit       55
                              Program
\

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                                                              ?20
          ARAC Subcommittee on Permits  and Technologies
                     Conference Call  Minures
                        January 22, 1991
A conference call was conducted on Tuesday,  January 22,  1991 from
2-00 to 4:00 PM with members of the Acid Rain Advisory Committee
(ARAC) Subcommittee on Permits and Technologies and EPA.   A list.
of participants is included as an attachment.  Mark Steinberg,
substituting for Richard Abdoo, led the discussion by
Subcommittee members; Rachel Hopp led the discussion by EPA.  The
conference call began with a roll call and a brief review of the
agenda.

substitution Plans

Luther Heckman had faxed a copy of his paper on substitution
plans to Subcommittee members and took the lead in the discussion
of this issue.  Several Subcommittee members, including Bill
Roberts, strongly disagreed with Mr. Heckman's view that, in the
case of a substitution unit, the NOX requirements under Section
408 apply only to the substitution unit and not to the original
unit.  Mr. Roberts stated that Sections 404 and 407 do not allow
for this interpretation and that in his paper, Mr. Heckman
suggests that the original unit would still receive allowances.
Mr  Steinberg stated that he did not see the NOX requirements
being associated with substitution plans for SO2 requirements.

Mr  Heckman explained his argument that if a unit is substituted
for  this new unit becomes the "affected" unit and the original
unit is no longer an "affected" unit.  He said that this concept
is supported by the Act.  Bill Roberts said that the language
under Section 404(c)(2) clearly indicates that both the original
and substitute unit are affected units.  Mr. Roberts reiterated
that if Mr. Heckman assumes that the original unit is no longer
an affected unit, this unit would not be eligible for allowances.

Jerry Eyster briefly recapped his understanding of substitution
units related to SO2 which correspond to the language in Section
404(b).  He agreed that both the original and substitute units
would be affected Phase I units.  However, since the language in
Section 404(b) specifically refers to the "sulfur dioxide     •
reduction requirements", he feels it is questionable whether the
NOX requirements kick in.  Bill Roberts cited language from
Section 404(c)(2) that "each source with such a unit, shall be
deemed affected under this title".  He then  referred to Section
407 which provides when a source becomes affected for S02,  it
becomes affected for NOX, depending on boiler type.


                                 1

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                                                              ?20
Mr. Heckman disagreed with the interpretation that both units
were affected units.  He argued that EPA should resist ragularir.g
both units under Section 407 and said that such an interpretation
would deter substitution proposals and diminish the use or
substitution as a compliance strategy.

Mr. Steinberg asked for clarification regarding whether the
purpose of the substitute unit was to transfer the entire
reduction to the another unit.  Mr. Roberts stated that the
language says "in whole or in part".

One Subcommittee member asked about the language in 404(c)(2) -
whether the phrase  "shall be deemed affected" means affected
under Phase I or under Phase II.  Rachel Hopp stated that
substitution language appears only in Section 404 dealing with
Phase I.  However,  the intent of the legislation was that sources
coming in as substitute units would be Phase II units  (or
possibly opt/in units).  She clarified that these units become
affected dSring Phase I as substitutes, but that the legislation
had Phase II units  in mind.  Bill Roberts agreed that  once the
unit becomes part of the substitution plan, it is affected during
Phase I.

Mr. Heckman reiterated that EPA would be doing away with
substitution as a compliance strategy, and referred to this
approach as NOX "double jeopardy".  He feels the intent of the
Act was to allow for substitution.  However, if the
interpretation is that both units are affected, substitution
would not be one of the cheapest compliance strategies and  • •
Serefore, would not be used.  He felt that the utilities  will  go
with the cheapest compliance strategy available.  He asked for
input from the utilities.

Ms. Hopp mentioned  that the legislation allowed for NOX averaging
 (407  (e)) for owners of two or more units.  Mr. Heckman did  not
feel this would address his concern and restated that  he  does not
think that both the original and substitute units are  affected.

several Subcommittee members  (Jim Markowsky, Tom Maiman,  Steve
Burton) restated that they believe, the  language is clear  and that
both units are affected.

Mr. Heckman asked for comments  on  this  issues  and Mr.  Steinberg
asked members to fax these to Mr.  Heckman before the  next
Subcommittee meeting on Monday.

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                                                              ?20
Repowerina Extensions

Several Subcommittee members (Ned Helme, Jim Markowsky, Bill
Roberts) stated that they felt the language in the options paper
on the definition of eligible technologies was too broad and
should be narrowed to be consistent with the legislation.

Jim Markowsky raised the issue of the timing on the repowering
notification.  He stated that the 3/91 date.was too early to make
a commitment and suggested that the date be extended.to.1/96.  He
also suggested that this date should not be binding on either
industry or EPA.  He mentioned that AEP is presently the only
utility with clean coal technology already underway, yet AEP will
not be ready to make a decision on repowering until '96.  Steve
Winberg said that the 3/91 date would tell EPA nothing, since
everyone will notify just to meet the requirement and keep their
options open.

The purpose of the 3/91 notification date was discussed.  Several
Subcommittee members said they felt the intent of this date was
to give EPA an idea of how many units were to be repowered and
what the tap on the allowances might be.  Mr. Roberts said the
3/91 date would lead to a "lowball" of the number of- allowances
required for Phase II.  However, he felt that if EPA were to
periodically revise this estimate as it gets closer to Phase II
(as required in the statute),  this will give industry a more
accurate reading.  Rachel Hopp asked whether the Subcommittee
members viewed the 3/91 date as informational only.  She
suggested that if they felt this way, the Subcommittee should
consider develop a recommendation regarding the 3/91 notification
date and suggest an alternative.

Ned Helme said that the purpose of the repowering provision was
to allow for the development of technologies and that extending
the notification date to 1/96 would allow for this development to
take place.  He suggested a notification date of 1/96, the due
date for the Phase II permit applications, with a final
commitment to repower by 1/97.  Jim Markowsky said 1/96 might be
too soon to expect a utility to have a full permit application
developed which included details for repowering.  He suggested
that the permit application of 1/96 include a notification of the
intent to repower, with details provided in 1997.  Ms. Hopp said
that the 1997 change would be considered a modificettion to the
permit application.

Mr. Markowsky recapped the discussion:

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                                                              ?20
     o first indication of repowering in 1/96
     o confirmation of commitment by 12/97
     o submission of detailed plans by 1/2000

Ms. Hopp asked the subcommittee to develop a paper on these
suggestions.

Bill Steinmeier asked for further clarification on the - 31 date
and whether the information provided by this date was t  oe used
just for informational purposes'.  Mr. Markowskyrestater cha^ the
utilities will not have this information by 3/91.  He said the
utilities can not make a decision now on repowering since the
technology is in its early phases and the costs for repowering
a?e not Sown at this time.  Steve Winberg said that he would
like to know what the utilities might be giving up before
recommending that EPA drop the ,3/91 notification.

Rachel Hopp stated that the idea behind the 3/91 notification
date is to give EPA and industry an idea on what the tap on the
allowances might be.  If EPA does not know by 3/91 how many
allowances may be requested for repowering, EPA will not be able
to inform the industry of what;the worst case scenario mignt be.
She stated that without this information, it makes it difticult
for the utilities to plan.

Steve Winberg said that the Phase II allowances are still up in
the air.  Ms! Hopp agreed but reiterated that this would allow
EPA to estimate the worst case/maximum tap on the allowances.
One subcommittee member stated:that the only way to know the
maximum number of allowances would be to make the 3/91  deadline
binding on the utility.  Steve!Winberg agreed that the
information from this notification would be worthwhile.  He
suggested that the Subcommittee not recommend dropping^the
notification requirement and  ,instead, recommend that the date
for the notification be extended.

The timeframe for this notification was then discussed.  Ms. Hopp
asked about the time needed for utilities to conduct  advanced
olannina for repowering.   Several  Subcommittee members  said about
6 yellrs f orrepowering? which  would mean  a notification date of
1994.  They mentioned that about  5 years  was required tor  a
scrubber.   Jim Markowsky did not  think  a  utility could  make a
decision bv '94 or  '95.  One  Subcommittee member disagreed,
stating the utility will know if  it  is  considering repowering  by
Ihis time.  He said that by  '95,  the utility will have  made a
decision if they are on a  dual track (scrub/repower).   Another
Subcommittee member said that  there  is  no incentive  for the
utility to  take any risk  and  that EPA needs  to provide more
flexibility.

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                                                              P20
Bill Roberts asked if it would be helpful to know who is not
interested in repowering.  Jim Markowsky asked Ms. Hopp if EPA
could keep the 3/91 date,  but make it absolutely non-binding.
Rachel Hopp told him that she could not commit to this; that it
was the Subcommittee's task to develop these positions for
consideration by EPA.

Eligible Phase I Extensions

One Subcommittee member asked Rachel about EPA progress in
considering an earlier date for the regulation.  Mss. Hopp said
that she was working on a briefing outlining the options and that
she was hoping to have something to the Subcommittee for review
by Monday.  She stated that this requires input from other parts
of EPA.  She mentioned that she had requested a half-hour on the
agenda for the Subcommittee to present the issue at the full ARAC
meeting on Tuesday.

Tom Maiman said that the language on first come/first serve was
clear and he did not see a need to spend time interpreting this.
Several Subcommittee members disagreed and summarized discussions
from the last meeting, which included: the minimum unit of time
should be one day to avoid the mechanics of trying to
differentiate what was received during the day; pro-rating the
allowances - that this was not intended in the legislative
language.  One Subcommittee member said that the statute may not
be served if there is no pro-rating, since it might be possible
for a few companies to take all the allowances.

Rachel Hopp had sent a fax to Subcommittee members outlining
several qualifying Phase I technology allowance allocation
scenarios.  She briefly reviewed these scenarios and asked
Subcommittee members to start thinking about this.

Mr. Markowsky said that AEP did a survey of vendors for nine
utilities (20 units, 16,000 MWe) that have contracts on
scrubbers.  The survey indicated that this would result in 4.5
million tons of allowances being used.  Bill Steinraeier argued
that no one should be left out.  Jerry Eyster stated that if
there was a minimum unit of time of one day for submittals, this
would deal with the equity issue.  Jim Markowsky stated that
there is a need to establish a procedure for dealing with the
first come/first serve issue and that the decision needs to
include allocation of all or none of the allowances to a utility.
Rachel Hopp said that the issue of allocating allowances on an
all or nothing basis needed to be given further consideration by

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                              :                                P20

the Subcommittee.  For example,  if on day 1 there is
oversubscription, should each Unit be treated separately or
should all the units from one utility be treated together?  She
also asked if it should be left up to the utility to decide if
they want to receive partial allocation of allowances?  Ned Helme
said he felt it should be left at the unit level rather than by
utility and mentioned the option of a lottery.'

One Subcommittee member asked iabout what would happen if a
transfer unit were to be picked up, but the control unit was not.
Rachel Hopp said that the application would have to link the
transfer and control unit so that they would be considered
together.

One Subcommittee member mentioned that the utility would have to
have a strategy behind their submissions - that they need to
think about multiple submissions to increase their chances in a
lottery.  He felt that multiple submissions would also result in
spreading out of allowances.

Bill Roberts mentioned that the quality of the applications will
vary and asked how this would 'impact on allocating allowances.
Ms. Hopp stated that although ;EPA was exploring ways of giving
the industry an early indication of their presumptive place in
line, a successful utility would lose its place if the subsequent
permit application submission 'was not adequate.  One Subcommittee
member said that EPA needs to identify the basic elements of a
permit application up-front.  I Rachel Hopp said that the elements
would be defined as part of the rulemaking process, and that an
initial submittal, for the purposes of an early presumptive
ranking, may not have all the components of a complete permit
application.

Jim Markowsky talked about what it takes to get a scrubber in
service.  He estimated it would take 36 months to design the
scrubber and 4 months to install, plus time for licensing and
permitting.  Therefore, he felt oversubscription will be more
likely for  '96 than for  '95.  He said that if EPA sticks with the
first come/first serve legislation and a utility does not make
the cut, this could cause problems.  Bill Roberts mentioned that
if the unit were down during this time, allowances would not be
as much of an issue as the reduction.  Mr. Markowsky cited
another survey conducted by AEP  (which is confidential) of
utilities considering more than one scrubber.  He said these
utilities will run into problems because the  statute does not
allow for allowances over a fraction of a year, e.g., 1 1/2
years.  Rachel Hopp said that;the utility would only get the
allowances for the years they;are needed and  that he needed to
consider that units with scrubbers in-place can bank the

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                                                   ,           P20

allowances.  She said it would not be advisable to start changing
the allowances as they are laid out in the statute.

One Subcommittee member said the main issue is that the utilities
need to know early if they are going to get these allowances and
that a reasonable mechanism is needed for choosing between all
the applications received on one day.  Ms. Hopp said that the
mechanism for determining first come/first serve needed to
consider not only the applications received on the one day but
also the applications received before that date.

Jim Markowsky said that he felt the Subcommittee should focus
first on the extension mechanism then on a mechanism for
determining who is first.  Rachel Hopp asked Subcommittee members
to develop suggestions for dealing with the first come/first
serve issue.  The Subcommittee agreed to do this.

Reduced Utilization

The discussion on reduced utilization began with the issue of
compensating units and the applicability of NOX requirements to
these units.  Mark Steinberg said that there is no NOX target for
Phase I.  However, he said that if the original Phase I unit
already had NOX controls in-place, he did not see why the
compensating unit should not be subject to NOX controls.  Bill
Roberts cited Section 408(c)(1)(b).  Mr. Heckman said this was
similar to the substitution unit issue.  Mr. Steinberg said there
was a difference between substitution units and compensating
units.  For substitution units, the planning was always forward
looking.  For compensating units, the planning could not always
be forward looking, since the utility could not predict
situations like outages.  He argued that if the cause of reduced
utilization was something that could not be planned for, the
utility should not be subject to the reduced utilization
requirements.

Bill Roberts asked Mark if he was saying that the compensating
unit was not covered.  Mark said this was his original thinking,
but that he feels this flies in the face of the staitute.  He
proposed a compromise - in the case where something can be
predicted, the reduced utilization requirements should apply; in
the case where something can not be predicted, these requirements
should not apply.

EPA staff had to leave the call at about 3:45 PM because of a
fire alarm.  Rachel Hopp asked one of the Subcommittee members to
take minutes on the remainder of the meeting.  These will be
appended to these minutes.

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                                                              P20
                           Attachment
                        List of Attendees
Subcommittee Members Attending via Teleconference:
Richard Abdoo, Wisconsin Electric Power
Tony Earl, Quarles and Brady
Steven Winberg, Consolidated Natural Gas
William Steinmeier, Missouri Public Service Commission
                              i
William Samuel, United Mine Workers of America         :
James Markowsky, AEP Services Corp.
Ned Helme, Alliance for Acid Rain Control
James Hambright, PADER Bureau of Air Quality control
Paul Feira, Wheelabrator Air Ppllution Control
Jerry Eyster, A.T. Massey Coal Company
Thomas Maiman, Commonwealth Edison
Steve Burton, Sithe Energies
Luther Heckman, Coalition for Environment-Energy Balance
John Daniel,  VA Department of Air Pollution Control
List of Subcommittee Members Npt Attending
C.V. Mathai,  Arizona Public Service Commission
Vicki Tschinkel, Landers and Parsons
EPA Attendees:
Rachel Hoppf  OAR/ARD
Joe Kruger, OAR/ARD
Karen Kent, OAR/ARD           j
Claudia O'Brien, OAR/ARD
                                 8

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                                                               P21

   Meeting of the-ARAC-Subcommittee on Permits and Technologies
                  Omni  Shoreham, Washington,  D.C.
                         January 28, 1991
                        9:00 AM to 5:00 PM

                         Meeting Minutes


 The Acid Rain Advisory Committee  (ARAC) Subcommittee on Permits
 and Technologies  held  an open meeting  on January  28, 1991  from
 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM at  the Omni Shoreham Hotel in  Washington, D.C.
 A  list of the ARAC Subcommittee members and  EPA representatives
 participating in  this  meeting is included as an attachment.  Mr.
 Richard Abdoo served as meeting chairman.

 Mr. Abdoo opened  the meeting at 9:10 AM by introducing the
 Subcommittee members and EPA representatives.  Mr. Abdoo briefly
 reviewed the meeting agenda and the approach for  meeting
 discussions.  He  noted that the Subcommittee may  not reach full
 consensus on every issue raised during this  meeting. It was
 agreed that if the Subcommittee was not moving forward on  an
 issue, the issue  would be set aside and revisited, if time
 allowed.  Tony Earl mentioned that the members had agreed  at the
 last Subcommittee teleconference, during which he represented  Mr.
 Abdoo, on the need for an early rulemaking on Qualifying Phase I
 Technology Extensions.  He then asked Rachel Hopp to summarize
 EPA's Draft Options paper of 1/24/91 on an early  rulemaking for
 qualifying Phase  I extensions (item P17 in the package of
 materials).

 Discussion of an  Early Rulemakina for Qualifying  Phase I
 Extensions

 Rachel Hopp began the discussion by saying that this issue has
 been raised to Bill Rosenberg.   She noted that a  key factor in
 determining the timeframe for an advanced rulemaking is the OMB
 review process.   She described that in the 18-month rulemaking
 process,  the proposed and final rule (along with  the RIA and
 other  supporting documentation)  will be sent to  OMB for review
 prior to publication in the Federal Register.  In order to
 conduct an early rulemaking, OMB would need to waive or
 streamline the traditional review (three months),  and would need
 to feel comfortable that any unresolved issues will be addressed
during the 18-month rulemaking process.  She also noted that
disadvantages, to an early rulemaking include the  increased
possibility of litigation,  and the resource drain on EPA.

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  Ms.  Hopp  briefly reviewed the I Draft  Options  paper, which  included
  four scenarios  for "Qualifying  Phase I  Extensions Allowance
  Allocations".   She reviewed the assumptions  used for these
  scenarios (page 9 of item P17),  followed  by  a  review of each
  scenario.  (See  attachments) .  '•

  Scenario  1 - Extension Unit Orily - Ms.  Hopp  discussed  the impact
  on the reserve  under this scenario and  briefly reviewed the
  calculations in each column.  There  were  no  comments on this
  scenario.

  Scenario  2 - Extension Unit and One  Transfer Unit - Ms. Hopp
  reviewed  this scenario,  noting  the increase  in the impact on  the
  reserve due to  the addition of  one transfer  unit.  She noted  that
  the  more  transfer units that are added, the  greater the impact  on
  the  reserve to  cover emissions  during 1995 and 1996.

  Ned  Helme asked for clarification as to how  the transfer  unit
  would impact the reserve.  Ms.  Hopp  explained  that the, drawdown
  from the  reserve by the transfer unit was only for years  1995-96
  and  that  the transfer unit would not receive bonus allowances.
  Jim  Hambright said it would seem that there  would be a point
  where adding transfer units would result  in  an allowance  deficit.
  Ms.  Hopp  referred him to Scenario 4, which illustrated the
  addition  of multiple transfer units  to  the point where the
  emissions reductions achieved by the 90%  control unit  would be
  overcommited.   She stated that  this  was an issue for the
  Subcommittee to discuss.

  Jeff White of AEP was asked by  Jim Markowsky to discuss a paper
  he had developed on this issue.  Mr. White said he had talked
  with John Wood  of Senator Bird's office regarding this issue.  He
  said that a transfer unit should be  thought  of in terms of an
  "allowance flow", rather than;in terms  of a  transfer of a
  "reduction". He then gave an example.  If 100,000 tons is
  reduced by 90%  to 10,000 tons,  and the  unit  has a Phase I basic
  allowance allocation of 50,000  tons, then 40,000 tons  is  amenable
  for  transfer.   He mentioned that he  sees  several problems in  the
  statute - in some places in Section  404(d),  it is not  clear
  whether the Phase I unit is a control unit or  a transfer  unit.
  His  reading of  Section 404(d)(5), however, is  that the statute
  allows for "flux" from the reserve.   He said that the  bonus  (two-
  for-one)  allowances in 404(d)(6) should be thought of  as  base
  allowances that were not consumed by virtue  of control.   Rachel
  Hopp noted that his presentation seemed consistent with the
  calculations in Scenario 2. Mr. White  and several Subcommittee
  members agreed  the formula for  calculating bonus allowances was
  correct.

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                                                              P21

Several Subcommittee members expressed confusion over how this
would apply for multiple units.

Tony Ahern of AEP was asked by Jim Markowsky to give an example.
If 100,000 tons is reduced with 90% control to 10,000 tons and
the basic Phase I allocation is 50,000 tons, then the unit is
underemitting by 40,000 tons.  The 40,000 tons can then be
applied to other units.  He referred to Scenario 3 - showing 2
units, each assigned 20,000 tons.  Several Subcommittee members
asked for clarification on how this would result in a "drawdown"
from the reserve.  Mr. Ahern referred them to Scenario 3
(multiple transfer units), which shows a total impact of 222,000
vs. 182,000 in Scenario 2 (one transfer unit).  Jim Hambright
clarified that the 40,000 tons was not a "bonus" but, rather, the
difference between the Phase I allocation and the achieved
reduction.

Jerry Eyster said that a transfer unit could be: (l) a Phase I
unit, (2) a Phase II unit, or (3) a unit from outside of the
program.  Brian McLean added that a utility would not bring a
Phase II unit in, unless it was economical to bring it in via
substitution.  Jerry Eyster said that, in a Phase I to Phase I
transfer, both units are already in the program; therefore, why
does this type of trade need to be called a "transfer"?  Brain
McLean responded that the advantage has to do with the utility
not wanting to control one of the Phase I units.

Jim Hambright referred to Scenario 4 and the question "If
multiple transfer units are permitted, should this
overcommittment be allowed?"  He said he was not sure if the type
of grouping described in Scenario 4 was allowed under the
statute.  Brain McLean asked for clarification as to why Scenario
4 would not work within the statute.  Rachel Hopp responded that
this scenario is not expressly prohibited under the statute, but
that it would be helpful to the Subcommittee to consider whether
this should be allowed.  She said the Subcommittee should
consider: (1)  whether overcommitment to a control unit should be
allowed; and (2) whether Phase I units should come in as transfer
units.

Jerry Eyster said that once a unit transfers its obligations to
another, the limiting factor becomes the emissions allowed.  He
added that the Subcommittee needed to decide if they were in
agreement that Phase I to Phase I transfers were contemplated and
allowed under the statute.

Rachel Hopp asked the Subcommittee if the allowances for the
transfer unit(s) under the scenarios presented should not exceed
40,000 tons,  i.e.,  the emissions reductions achieved by the
control unit.   The Subcommittee agreed that such a limit on

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                              ;                                 P21

 transfer units should be implied,  in order to avoid depletion  of
 the reserve by multiple transfer units  with little or  no
 scrubbing occurring.          '

 Ms.  Hopp asked the Subcommittee if there was agreement! that  Phase
 I to Phase I transfers were allowed.  She added  that the  text  of
 the law would allow for this. :  Jerry Eyster said that  if  the law
 allows for this,  how can the Subcommittee disallow it,  and added
 that the Subcommittee should stay  with  the approach that  allows
 for maximum flexibility.   Rachel Hopp added,  if  the utility
 applied for an extension and the extension unit  was not the
 control unit,  then the utility  would need to bring the control
 unit in and would need additional  allowances to  allow  for
 operation.   Jim Markowsky asked if this was something  that should
 be allowed?  He said that thete could be cases where the  utility
 scrubs one Phase  I unit,  but has enough allowances left to cover
 a second Phase I  unit as  a "transfer" unit and therefore, does
 not have to scrub this second unit - this would  be the least cost
 approach.   Vicki  Tschinkel asked if this would be a fair
 approach.   Tom Maiman added that he did not think it was  an  issue
 of fairness.   Bill Samuel said  it  was his understanding that the
 Senate proposal looked at "bubbling-in" plans to allow the
 extensions  to  work.           :

 Dick Abdoo  asked  if there were  ways to  build in  fairer allocation
 techniques.  Jim  Markowsky said he read the statute to allow for
 transfer to Phase I units - with the  utility that asks for the
 extension first getting it.  Jerry Eyster said that the
 Subcommittee needs to  contemplate  the structure  of the statute -
 under  the statute, a Phase I unit  can apply for  an extension,  but
 the  idea of a  "Phase I  umbrella" is not clear.   He noted  that
 some of  the confusion  can be attributed to  the fact that  parts of
 the  statute were  written  at different times.   He said  that the
 Subcommittee needed to  come to  a conclusion on the direction that
 should be taken.  Rachel  Hopp added that the  Phase I to Phase  I
 transfer will  drawdown  from the reserve,  resulting in  fewer
 control  units.  Bill Samuel  sa£d he feels this was  contemplated
 in the legislation.           :

 Ned  Helme asked about partial transfers,  i.e., only move  10,000
 tons of  the 40,000 tons available  for transfer.   He noted that
 the  scenarios  in  P17 look  at what happens if the  entire 40,000
 tons is transferred, but do not address  partial  transfers.
 Specifically, he  asked whether! the remaining 30,000 tons could be
used for other units and how this would  impact the  drawdown on
the reserve  (i.e., how do you f'score" a partial transfer?)  Jerry
Eyster responded that the compliance plan should  credit those
allowances towards that transfer.  Dick Abdoo added that the
 "leftover", in this case 30,000 tons, could either  be applied to
other units or sold.  Both Rachel Hopp and Jim Markowsky added

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                                                              P21

 that the additional  drawdown  from  the  reserve  for the  transfer
 units occurs only  in 1995-96,  and  that the units would have  to
 meet the 2.5 Ibs/mmBTU emissions rate  in  1997  as a whole.

 Jeff White AEP added that  404(d)(l) defines an eligible  extension
 unit as:  (1)  a unit  that employs eligible Phase I technology; or
 (2)  transfers its  emissions reduction  obligations to a unit
 employing eligible Phase I technology.  Jerry  Eyster agreed  that
 either interpretation can  apply.

 Dick Abdoo asked the Subcommittee  if there was consensus that
 Phase I to Phase I transfers  are allowed.  The Subcommittee  said
 there was consensus.

 He asked  if there  was consensus that Phase I units can transfer
 their emissions reductions obligations to Phase II 90% control
 substitution units,  as long as there is no overcommitment.   The
 Subcommittee said  there was consensus.

 Rachel  Hopp mentioned that the cap for overcomittment  is
 determined by the  control  unit.  Jim Hambright clarified that
 this  was  the  case  only until  1997.  Brian McLean asked about the
 impact  on the bonus  allowances.  Rachel Hopp asked the
 Subcommittee  whether  bonus allowances  should be included in
 assuming  overcommittment,  and what their  understanding was of how
 overcommittment was determined.  Several  Subcommittee  members
 responded that the determination is based on emissions reductions
 by the  control unit over its basic allocations; they added that
 it should not include the  2-for-l bonus allowances for 1997-99.

 Dick  Abdoo  asked if there  was consensus that multiple  transfer
 units are allowed, not  to  exceed emissions reductions  achieved.
 The Subcommittee said there was consensus.

 He asked  whether transfer  units should be limited to one plant or
 whether they  could be any  unit within  a system.  The Subcommittee
 agreed the  unit could be any unit within  a system and  did not
 need  to be within  the same plant.

 Jim Hambright  asked whether the transfer unit could be part  of
 another system.  Rachel Hopp said that this could be done from a
 permitting  standpoint.  She said the Designated Representative
 concept could  be used to deal with the "control" issue, and that
 cross-referencing  compliance plans would be needed.
 Ned Helme added he felt that the transfer should be allowed to
 any eligible unit,  and not limited to a plant or system.   Jim
Hambright,said he did not think this would be a problem for the
 control agency, but noted  it could pose a problem for the PUC.
Rachel Hopp added that if there was one Designated
Representative, this could deal with the concerns about

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                                                              P21

transferring to a unit outside a plant or system.   Jim Markowsky
asked Bill Steinmeier to comment on what problems  transferring
across states present.  Bill Steinmeier replied he could not
anticipate what the problems might be at this point in time.

Rachel Hopp suggested that, in developing the compliance plan, a
utility might need to make it clear to the PUC that this was the
approach they were going to take.  She added that this might
create some uncertainty for the utility.  Bill Steinmeier said he
would bring this issue up at the NRRI meeting.  Dick Abdoo said
he thought the Subcommittee should recommend that transfer to
different systems in different states be allowed and said that
the PUCs will need to consider how they want to deal with this.
Vicki Tschinkel mentioned cross-jurisdictional boundaries - that
the state or, more likely, the local jurisdiction, could disallow
this type of transfer.  Jim Hambright added that,  if there were
concerns about general environmental impacts, the state would
definitely be concerned.  Vicki Tschinkel added that another
concern was how permits were coordinated between local
jurisdictions and states.  Rachel Hopp restated the importance of
having a clear definition of Designated Representative.

Jerry Eyster asked whether a decision had been made about
transferring to a Phase II unit.  Rachel Hopp noted that the
general thought had been that utilities would scrub their
"dirtiest" units (i.e., would'scrub a Phase I unit).  Jerry
Eyster said that, in some cases, the amount of emissions from a
Phase I and Phase II unit could be close; therefore, it might
make sense in some cases to scrub a Phase II unit.  Ned Helme
clarified that the Phase II unit come in as a substitute unit.
Jerry Eyster responded that this might result in a restriction on
the Phase II unit that it must be within the same system.  Rachel
Hopp clarified that the limitation on substitution units is that
they must be "under the control" of the same owner/operator as
the Phase I unit, but that the term "under the control" was not
expressly defined in the law.  She added that the regulatory
definition should allow for maximum flexibility.  She preferred to
her earlier discussions of Designated Representative as possibly
providing the necessary leveliof control.  Jerry Eyster said that
if substitution is used, the utility could get more "bang for the
buck" (he briefly described the need for allowances in 1995-96
vs. waiting until 1997 to scrub).  Jim Hambright asked for
clarification and whether it yas the intent of the Act to allow
this reserve of allowances to be used for Phase II units.  Brian
McLean explained that this would allow a utility to defer part of
its Phase I control - the substitute unit would serve as
"backfill" for the Phase I unit.

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                                                              P21

Jerry Eyster asked whether a substitution will consume the
available allowances.  Brian McLean and Rachel Hopp explained
that the allocation to the substitute unit does not impact the
3.5 million allowances.  Since the Phase II unit would not
consume the 1995 and 1996 allowances from reserve if it was
operating at less than 2.5 Ibs/mmBTU.

Dick Abdoo asked if the Subcommittee had reached consensus that A
Phase I unit can transfer to a Phase II unit.  The Subcommittee
said there was consensus.

He asked if there was agreement that transfers could occur
outside the unit's system, if there was a single Designated
Representative responsible for the control of the unit.  The
Subcommittee said there was consensus.

Rachel Hopp noted that this issue relates back to the issue of
Designated Representative, and added that the Subcommittee had
not agreed on how this concept would work.  Dick Abdoo said that
the definition of Designated Representative was more of a legal
question than a technical question.  He suggested that the owners
could warrant a representative.  Rachel Hopp suggested that,
rather than try to define this term here, EPA will develop some
procedural options for designating a representative and will send
them to the Subcommittee for review.  Mr. Abdoo agreed with this
approach.

Regarding minimal criteria for ranking applications,  Rachel Hopp
explained the need to specify criteria for the applications for
presumptive rankings.  She clarified she was not discussing the
requirements for full permit application, as these will be
defined through the 18-month rulemaking process.  The purpose
would be to ensure that ranking applicants who are not making a
good faith effort do not tie up a presumptive place in line.  Tom
Maiman asked about penalties for false certifications.  Rachel
Hopp said that EPA had not considered this, at this time.

Jim Hambright asked about the timeline.  Jim Markowsky said that,
in order to get a scrubber in-place by 1996, utilities should
have drawings completed and signed contracts in place with
vendors by August. Jerry Eyster said that if this wais the case,
why was an expedited rulemaking needed and asked whait information
was needed to influence their decisions.  Jim Markowsky responded
that while the utility will need to have signed a contract with a
vendor by August in order to install by 1996, the utility still
needs to know as early as possible whether they will get the
extension -i.e., whether they can move forward with the contract,
which will include some type of cancellation or escaipe clause, or
whether they need to develop an alternative compliance strategy.
He reiterated that the planning process is very lengthy and that

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                                                              P21

if a utility will have to change its plans, it needs to know as
soon as possible.

With respect to what  should be; included in an application for a
presumptive ranking,  Mr. Markowsky argued that the requirements
should be rigorous, and include the detailed drawings and
specifications for the scrubber, in addition to certification
that a contract had been signed.  Rachel Hopp asked whether this
approach would result in some  futilities being excluded.  Bill
Samuel added he did not think  j utilities who were "not as far
along" should be penalized.  Jim Hambright said that the industry
cannot afford to have frivolou|s applications tying up places in
line - by the time EPA has made the determination that these
applications are inadequate, it will be too late to reallocate
these allowances.              ! -
                               i
Dick Abdoo suggested  the application include preliminary
engineering drawings, preliminary cost estimates and preliminary
alternatives (similar to the level of detail of what might be
included in a notification for; repowering).  He added that EPA
should not require a  copy of tjie contract itself, in order to
protect the competition between vendors.  Several Subcommittee
members concurred with this idea.

Jim Markowsky argued  that the  "minimum" requirements for the
application should be rigorous;, to ensure that only utilities who
are serious apply.  He added this approach will reward those
utilities who have done their  homework and made an effort to move
forward.  Vicki Tschinkel suggested that the application include
a sign-off by the PUC.  She added this would avoid the ineed for
including the actual  contract  in the application, which she feels
does not make sense.  Dick Abdpo pointed out that PUCs operate
differently as far as approval and sign-off procedures ;and that
not all PUCs require  that approval.  Several Subcommittee members
mentioned that they had not been aware of this, but agreed that
such a sign-off would not be practical since it was not required
by all PUCs.                   |

Luther Heckman stated that thejapplication should not be of such
length that EPA has to go through "reams" of paper.  Rachel Hopp
mentioned, as an option, that  the applicant certify that there
has been some type of public involvement.  She asked whether EPA
should create a process, through the early rulemaking, that would
ensure minimal due process.  Several Subcommittee members
disagreed with this approach,  i Tony Earl said he strongly
disagreed with a public involvement step, adding that every state
and PUC works differently as far as PUC requirements and as far
                                8

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                                                            '  P21

as public participation requirements.  He recommended that public
involvement not be applied at this stage.  Rachel noted that
delaying public involvement increases uncertainty, since there is
the possibility for public opposition later in the process.

Jerry Eyster said that the criteria for the application should be
such that the people who have moved forward - who have reached
some threshold first - are rewarded.  He argued that equity was
not an issue; rather, the Subcommittee needed to define what the
"threshold" or "test" should be to determine if a utility can
qualify for a presumptive ranking.  Paul Feira asked what would
happen to those who were not planning to get their scrubbers on
until later - would this approach exclude these people?  Rachel
Hopp noted that if the criteria are too strict and people feel
they are being excluded, this could impact on the success of an
early rulemaking.  She reiterated that, if people in the
regulated community disagreed with this approach, the rule may be
challenged, resulting in a delay or blocking of the early
rulemaking.

In terms of possibly excluding people, Tom Maiman said" he did not
feel that the Act contemplated equity and that the intent was to
reward those who are prepared.  Rachel Hopp said that the intent
of Act was to provide maximum flexibility and that the permit
application was not intended to impose an undue burden on the
regulated community.  Tom Maiman responded that because there is
a fixed number of allowances available, the Act contemplates that
someone will get left out.  Rachel Hopp reiterated that, if the
criteria are too strict, the early rulemaking will not get off
the ground.

Bill Samuel asked if the purpose of the criteria was to try to
define a "minimal level of seriousness" on the part of the
applicant.  Dick Abdoo said that there needs be trade-offs for
this early rulemaking and reiterated some of Rachel Hopp's points
on the difference between this type of rulemaking and the 18-
month rulemaking.  He said that under the 18 month schedule, EPA
can be firm with the permit application requirements, since there
will be greater opportunity for public involvement, a full OMB
review, and other "safeguards" in the rulemaking process.  This
will minimize the possibility that EPA will be sued over the
final rule.  In an expedited rulemaking, these "safeguards" will
be limited.  Therefore, unless everyone is in agreement with the
approach, th'ere is a high probability of a lawsuit.  He,
therefore, recommends that the requirements be more liberal for
this expedited rulemaking.  He said the question for the
Subcommittee to deal with is how to keep the requirements liberal
enough to avoid litigation, yet stringent enough to avoid
frivolous applications.

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                              i                                P21

Jerry  Eyster  suggested  that  one  alternative might be to  limit the
extent to which  a permit  application  could be modified,  i.e.,
hold people to what  they  say they  are going to do in the
application  (with the understanding that the application will
need some fine tuning).

Jim Markowsky asked  Rachel about the  schedule for an early
rulemaking.   Rachel  Hopp  used Jan example that to promulgate  in
August, with  a one month  comment period in July, would mean  the
rule would be proposed  in June.  She  added that the full ARAC
Committee still  needs to  reach agreement on this issue and that
the decision  to  waive OMB review rests with OMB and not  with EPA.

[NOTE: During the full  ARAC  meeting on January 29,1991,  Eileen
Claussen made it clear  that  the  earliest date for publication of
an early rule would  be  November  and that OMB review would not be
waived.]

Jim Markowsky said that the  utilities who are serious are
thinking about this  now,  and hjave  been looking at compliance
strategies for the last several  months.  Therefore, he feels that
these  utilities  will not  object  to stringent application
requirements, including drawings and  contracts.  Rachel  Hopp
added  since EPA  will not  have the  full permit review process in
place  for an  early rulemaking, the more straightforward  the
review for a  presumptive  ranking the  better.

Jerry  Eyster  suggested  that  another way to reduce frivolous
applications  would be to  prohibit  utilities from selling or
transferring  their "place in line".   There was general agreement
that this criteria be added.  !'

John Daniel asked Rachel  how comfortable she was that OMB will
allow  the expedited  rulemaking.  She  replied that this issue had
not been discussed with OMB, so  she could not say.  She  noted,
however, that if there  is full ARAC Committee consensus, this
will help.  She  added that the ARAC Committee needs to reach
consensus, not only  on the need  for an expedited rulemaking, but
also on what needs to be  in  the  rule  (i.e., the scope of the
expedited rulemaking).  Dick Abdoo suggested that 2-3 members of
the Subcommittee meet to  try to  define the "minimum" requirements
for an application.   Rachel  Hopp mentioned that they should
develop options and  that  these options could be put forward  for
comment in the proposed rulemaking.   Brian McLean asked  if anyone
was aware of other types  of  certifications or "statements of
tests" that might be appropriate for  this circumstance.  Jim
Hambright said he was not aware of any binding certifications.
                                10

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                                                    '   '-       P21

 Dick Abdoo  suggested  that  another  incentive to avoid  frivolous
 applications  would  be to consider  how the PUC categorizes project
 planning  costs  (which the  PUC may  allow the utility to recover
 through rate  increases, etc) vs. expenses  (which generally  cannot.
 be  recovered  through  such  things as rate increases) .,  He said
 that if an  applicant  were  to file  with a PUC, the dollars for
 developing  the  application could be accumulated as  planning
 dollars.  If  the utility backs  out, the dollars would become
 expense dollars.  Vicki Tschinkel  said that not all states
 operate this  way.

 Rachel Hopp asked if  there was  any way to run some  of these ideas
 by  some of  the  utilities.   Dick Abdoo mentioned the NRRI and UARG
 meetings  this week.   Ms. Hopp asked the Subcommittee  members to
 please emphasize in their  discussions with utilities, that  the
 early rulemaking is a preliminary  suggestion.  She  reminded the
 members that  EPA has  been  advising utilities not to submit
 applications, and that EPA will not review applications until  the
 final rules are promulgated in  May of 1992; and that  this will
 not change  until there is  a formal decision by EPA  to move
^forward with  an expedited  rulemaking.  Dick Abdoo concluded that
 the Subcommittee is not in a position to take the details of this
 recommendation  to the full Committee tomorrow; this will have  to
-be  done in  February.   However,  it  was agreed that the
 Subcommittee  had reached consensus on the need for  an expedited
 rulemaking  and  he will bring this  to the full ARAC  Committee.
 Rachel reminded the Subcommittee that: under the expedited
 rulemaking, the reserve will not have been established, i.e.,  the
 3.5 millon  will be  the presumptive reserve.  Under  the full
 rulemaking, this reserve will be established, using the specific
 formula in  the  statute.

 Break

 Rachel Hopp referred  to Scenario 2 and raised the cjuestion  - if  a
 unit scrubs before  1995 but after  enactment, does the unit  get
 the 50,000  allowances from the  reserve during 1995  and 1996, as
 if  it were  not  controlling, or  only bank the difference between
 its basic allocation  of 50,000  allowances and the 90% reduction.
 Tom Maiman  said the unit gets all  the allowances.   Jim Hambright
 said that this  would  minimize the  pool available for  units  that
 need the  additional time to add a  scrubber.

 Rachel Hopp asked the Subcommittee if they were in  agreement that
 the statute contemplated this allocation as indicated by Mr.
 Maiman.  -The  Subcommittee  members  were in agreement.

 She then  asked  about  a unit that was scrubbing before enactment.
 Several Subcommittee  members suggested this would not be a  Phase
 I unit.

                                11

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                            ••>•-,  '    •                        P21

Vicki  Tschinkel  asked Ms.  Hopp  to clarify the  timeframe  for
"already"  scrubbing.   Ms.  Hopp  responded this  meant  scrubbing
before enactment.   Tony  Ahern ;asked  about retrofit scrubbers.
Jerry  Eyster  and Jim  Hambright  said  that any retrofit unit would
need to be listed  as  a Phase i  unit  in Table A to be eligible to
receive Phase I  extension  allowances.  There was a general
discussion among Subcommittee members about the list of  Phase I
units.  Rachel Hopp explained that the table was based,on 1985
data and some of the  units may  have  installed  scrubbers  between
1985 and enactment. The  question was whether a unit  was  still in
the system, if it  no  longer met the  requirements.  Jerry Eyster
said that  once a unit is listed in Table A, it can not "get off"
the table.  It was agreed  that  if the unit was listed on Table A,
the unit was  a Phase  I unit.

Rachel Hopp mentioned that the  intent of the provision was to
encourage  scrubbing.   Several Subcommittee members agreed and
said that  it  clearly  was the intent  of the Act to exclude those
units  that were  scrubbing  prior to enactment.  The question was
whether there are  any listed Phase I units that are  already
scrubbing.  Jerry  Eyster suggested that the Subcommittee find out
how many Phase I units are already scrubbing.  Dick  Abdoo said,
based  on information  available  to him, there are no  Phase I units
that have  gone out and installed scrubbers.  He, however, agreed
to verify  this information.  Jerry Eyster raised the issue that
some states have acid rain provisions and these may  have forced
early  scrubbing.   Rachel Hopp added  that there are some  units
that will  scrub  regardless of this provision.  Steve Winberg said
that the Subcommittee should not redefine an "affected unit".

Dick Abdoo then  asked the  Subcommittee to discuss the "lottery"
concept.  Rachel Hopp said that a lottery had  been discussed as a
way to  deal with applications coming in on the day the 3.5
million allowance  reserve  was exceeded, and as a mechanism for
determining first  in  line.  She mentioned that she had spoken to
OGC and was advised that this could  be done.   Tom Maiman
expressed concern  that utilities might sue if  they do riot "win"
in rhe  lottery.  He also suggested that utilities might  feel
pressure to sue  from  the PUC, since  it is not  clear  what the PUC
would do if their  utilities did not  receive the extension.
Rachel  Hopp clarified that Section 307 of the  CAA allows only 60
days for a rule  to be challenged.   If there is no challenge
during  this 60 days,  then  the rule will stand.  If the rule is
challenged after 60 days,  the suit would not have standing and
would be defeated.   She  said, though, that the rule will have to
get through the  60-day period.   Jerry Eyster asked if any suit,
regardless of merit,  could stop the  lottery.  Ms.  Hopp said if
there is any challenge,  this would need to be  resolved first
before  any lottery could give the applicants the level of
certainty desired.             ;

                                12

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                                                              P21

Jim Hambright suggested that an alternative plan was needed, in
case a lawsuit was filed.  Ms. Hopp said that the key to limiting
the possibility of a challenge was to get full agreement
(Subcommittee, Committee and with the regulated community)  on the
approach to the extensions.

Jim Markowsky said he did not feel a utility could run their
business by lottery.  Rachel Hopp said there seemed to be two
options for the lottery: (1) conduct a lottery only for those who
come in on day one (i.e., everyone who comes in on or before this
first day is treated the same); or (2) rank everyone who comes
in, based on the day they come in and have a lottery for those
applications that arrive on the same day.

Jim Markowsky said that a utility might have an application for
each unit (e.g., a large utility might have 13 applications).
Rachel Hopp and Dick Abdoo reminded him that the utility must tie
the control and transfer units into one application.  However,
beyond that, it would be up to the utility to decide on a
strategy - either submit one application for all units (win or
lose "big")  or submit multiple applications (win smaller but
increase chances of winning).

Bill Samuel suggested proration as an alternative to a lottery.
If the applications received on day one were oversubscribed, the
allowances would be prorated  (e.g./everyone would get say 92%).
He added that the intent of this provision was to encourage
scrubbing and to protect the economics involved.  He argued that
an all or nothing lottery would not be consistent with this
intent.

Ned Helme commented that proration had been considered in
Congress and rejected by the Conferees.

Jim Hambright said that if a utility had only one unit, and the
allowances for this unit were prorated, the utility would have a
major problem.  He added that even with multiple units, there
would be problems if the allowances needed were "clipped".   Dick
Abdoo said that for a system, the utility could drop-off the
least economic unit and still be O.K.  However, a utility with a
single unit would have a problem, as they have no other units to
"drop-off".   Jerry Eyster said that the legislation does not
allow for proration.  He said the law is specific on the order.
Vicki Tschinkel added that a lottery would also fly in the face
of the legislation.  Rachel Hopp said that proration was
discussed and was rejected by Congress. Shelly Fidler  (from the
audience) said that the conferees rejected proration, but that it
was not specifically discussed by Congress.  She said it was
                                13

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                               i            ..      - '           P21
                               E
 included  in  a  package  of  House! technical amendments that were
 rejected,  but  that proration was not rejected specifically.  Bill
 Samuel  agreed  that this issue  had not been specifically discussed
 by  Congress.                   !

 Steve Winberg  said that it  is  likely that there will be
 oversubscription  on day one.   He commented that he did not think
 the Subcommittee  could develop, a procedure for addressing first
 come/first serve.   Dick Abdoo  said that if the Subcommittee can
 develop a  procedure for notifying the utilities that there is
 oversubscription,  then the  utilities may be able to negotiate
 between themselves.  Tony Earl;added that it would be the
 utilities  choice  to "unbundle";an application and go with a unit-
 by-unit approach.   Steve  Winberg asked what the options are for
 utilities  with only one or  two units.  Dipk Abdoo reiterated that
 if  a utility has  multiple units, they could work with a proration
 system; a  utility with only one unit would not be,able to do
 much.                       •   i

 Rachel  Hopp  asked the  Subcommittee to look at three options: (l)
 strict  construction, (2)  lottery, and (3) proration.  Jim
 Markowsky  said he thought the  statute's intent was "all or none",
 and both he  and Jerry  Eyster stated that proration could not be
 an  issue,  as it was  not allowed by the statute (Jerry Eyster read
 the wording  from  the Act).  Rachel Hopp noted that it is an issue
 since it has been raised  by Bill Samuel as an option.  Ned Helme
 agreed  that there  was  no  basis for proration in the statute.
 Bill Samuel argued that EPA cannot act "in order of receipt" if
 there is no mechanism  for establishing the order.

 Jim Markowsky  asked  what  the view of the PUC would be if a
 utility were to tell the  PUC that they did not receive the
 extension  because  their number;"did not come up" in the lottery.
 Bill Steinmeier responded that, while he has a problem with the
 proration  idea (he feels  it would upset the economics), he would
 be more likely to  understand a|loss in a lottery - if the utility
 could show that they had  done  the required planning and made a
 good faith effort, but were not successful because of lack of
 "luck", he would be  inclined to allow the utility to recover the
 costs of the planning.   Dick Abdoo added that this seemed
 reasonable.  Bill  Samuel  asked how proration would upset
 economics.  Jim Markowsky responded that there was the issue of
 frivolous  applications.  Tom Maiman added that proration may
 force people out.  Bill Samuel:argued that a lottery (1)  had no
basis in the Act,  and  (2)  does not serve the purpose or the
 intent of the Act.
                                14

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                                                              P21

Steve Winberg asked how much a utility would have to invest in
order to be allowed to participate in the lottery.  Dick Abdoo
said that was something the Subcommittee was going to address and
mentioned that several members had agreed to develop a draft of
the criteria.

Dick Abdoo summarized the alternatives discussed by the
Subcommittee - (1) stand in line; (2) treat all applications
received on day one equally, and, if oversubscribed, conduct a
lottery; (3) proration.  He then conducted two strawman votes of
the Subcommittee members - for the first vote, stand in line and
lottery were grouped.  The results were 2 members for proration;
the remainder for stand in line or lottery.

Jim Markowsky said he would like to see how other utilities felt
about these options.  Luther Heckman pointed out that the stand
in line option might be one of the best in terms of ensuring the
seriousness of the applicants.

Dick Abdoo suggested that the Subcommittee take a strawman
position on stand in line or lottery and try to get feedback from
the utilities during the NRRI and UARG meetings.

Bill Samuel asked if the vote could be taken again, separating
stand in line from lottery.  The strawman vote was retaken and
resulted in 2 members for proration; 6 for lottery; 4 for stand
in line.

Rachel Hopp asked whether frivolous applications could be
minimized by requiring the Designated Representative to be the
one to stand in line. The Subcommittee members felt this would be
too restrictive.

Vicki Tschinkel said that the Subcommittee needed to discuss the
proration issue further.  Jim Hambright suggested the possibility
of proration for the transfer units only.  Rachel Hopp asked what
would happen if the allowances were used-up on the control unit,
and nothing were left for the transfer'unit.  She added that if a
utility submitted an application linking the control and transfer
unit(s), it can be assumed this was done for economic reasons.

Jerry Eyster added that proration creates another set of outcomes
and increases the level of uncertainty.   Bill Samuel argued
whether the role of the Subcommittee was to reduce uncertainty.
Rachel Hopp responded that the need for certainty is what the
Subcommittee has said is needed, and is the basis for requesting
the expedited rulemaking.

Vicki Tschinkel asked about Scenario 3 and whether the charts
were right.  Jim Markowsky said that the charts were consistent

                                15

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                                                               P21

 with his paper and explained the basis for the calculations,  as
 follows:  the 40,000 tons was the amount available for
 distribution,  regardless of the number of transfer units  (i.e.,
 the emissions reductions from the control unit was the  limiting
 factor,  not the number of transfer units).   There was a general
 discussion among Subcommittee1 members  regarding the chart  in
 Scenario 3.   Rachel Hopp clarified that the column for  "annual
 reserve  allowances needed" applied only to 1995-96,  and repeated
 the Subcommittee's earlier agreement that the  allowances
 available to the transfer units could  not exceed the allowances
 generated by "overcontrol" ofj the control unit (in this case  the
 control  unit overcontrolled by 40,000  tons;  therefore,  40,000
 tons is  available for distribution to  the transfer units).  Only
 the control unit receives bonus allowances in  1997-99.  John  Wood
 (from the audience)  added that,  in determining the cumulative
 allowances from the reserve for the control unit,  the allowances
 in  years  1997-99 were added together i.e.,  14,000 tons  per year
 for a total of 42,000 tons,  which must be added to the  annual
 reserve  allowances needed in 1995-96 (50,000 tons/yr) to
 determine the  drawdown from tljie reserve.   Jim  Hambright added
 that the  bonus allowances are;not available for use in  1995-96.

 Dick Abdoo suggested the Subcommittee  seek input from NRRI and
 UARG.  He noted that the Subcommittee  was divided at this  point.
 Tom Maiman questioned how useful this  input might be, considering
 that this will be the first time many  of  the members of NRRI  and
 UARG have heard about this issue.   Dick Abdoo  responded that  he
 did not  expect this  input to be definitive,  rather this was an
 opportunity  to obtain additional information.

 Dick Abdoo then took a strawman pole of preferences  for (1)
 proration if no lottery - no hands;  (2) stand  in line if no
 lottery - few  hands;  (3)  stand in line if no proration  - no
 hands.  Steve  Winberg added that it was hard to vote without
 knowing what the ranking application requirements  will  be.  Jim
 Hambright suggested  these requirements not  be  too  restrictive.
 Dick Abdoo agreed, but said that some  restrictions were
 necessary.

 Dick Abdoo summarized that four  Subcommittee members had agreed
 to  develop recommendations on what  constitutes  a valid  permit
 application  for the  purposes  of  the presumptive ranking.  He  said
 this  will  be discussed with NRRI  and UARG.   He  asked for
 volunteers to  draft  recommendations  regarding the  Designated
 Representative issue.  Rachel  Hopp suggested  that EPA develop the
 first draft.   She said that EPA would  need to have minimal
procedural safeguards  for  establishing a  person's  Designated
Representative  status.   In that way, if someone were  to challenge
a designation,  EPA could rely on the representative's
demonstration that the  procedure was followed.  Dick Abdoo asked

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                                                              P21,

Rachel to get this to the Subcommittee for the conference call in
February.  She agreed to try .to have something drafted by that
time.  Dick Abdoo said he was looking to have a draft of the
ranking application requirements by next week.

Break

Dick Abdoo suggested a reverse in the agenda order for the
afternoon discussions - substitution plans, reduced utilization,
then repowering if there is time.  He then suggested that they
move to the next topic, as Luther Heckman had not returned from
the break.
Reduced Utilization

Ned Helme led the discussion.  He handed out a revised options
paper.  He briefly reviewed the main points of his paper
regarding the threshold test for utilization applied on a system-
wide basis.  He said that, during the last conference call, the
Subcommittee had agreed with this concept of a system-wide
approach, and the idea that the utility would only need to look
at the individual units if utilization fell below the threshold
level (the,baseline established during 1985-87).  He said that
the issue that was not resolved was whether this test applies
prospectively or retrospectively.

He mentioned that if a plant goes down unexpectedly, the
allowances are freed up.  In this case, the utility needs to
identify the compensating unit and the allowances that need to be
recovered.  Alternatively, the utility could give-up those
allowances.  He mentioned that there is a need to be
retrospective, and he feels Section 408 requires that the utility
be retrospective, in addition to being prospective.  Dick Abdoo
asked what would happen if utilization were reduced because of
conservation.  Ned said that if there is demonstrated/certified
conservation, the utility should be able to keep these
allowances.  Tom Maiman added that it may be difficult to certify
that the change was due to conservation vs. a shift in load.  Ned
Helme agreed.

Jim Markowsky added that other unforseen causes of reduced
utilization include weather and economics.  He mentioned that the
approach presented by Ned could almost be viewed as a "cap".  Ned
Helme agreed that the statute sets no cap on emissions during
Phase I.   Tom Maiman clarified that he was concerned about what
happens to a Phase I unit in the case of- a catastrophic event .
He said that the utility would now have to pick-up the capacity
with a Phase II unit or a non-affected unit and asked what
happens to these units.  Ned Helme responded he did. not think

                                17

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                                                              P21

that the utility should have to bring-in a non-affected unit
under such circumstances  (e.g.!, if a turbine blows),  in this
case, the allowances would be |freed-up for use.  Rachel Hopp
asked for clarification as to how this would be handled in the
compliance plan.  Ned Helme and Brain McLean said that the
utility would need to indicate;, as part of the compliance plan,
that the utilization of the Phase II unit would be increased.
Jerry Eyster added that there would need to be an administrative
presumption that the utility would use the allowances freed-up by
the catastrophe on a compensating unit (i.e., the utility could
not "benefit" from a catastrophe).  Several Subcommittee members
agreed.  He added that the utility would want to avoid  bringing
a compensating unit into Phase I, along with the associated
implications of a Phase I unit.

Brian McLean said that the utility could include reduced
utilization of a Phase I unit 'in the compliance plan, but that
there was no way to include a "planned" catastrophe in the
compliance plan.  Rachel Hopp asked how other "unplanned causes"
of reduced utilization (e.g., weather, economic) should be
handled.  Ned Helme said these should be treated the same way as
discussed for the blown turbine - if the utilization is less than
the baseline, then the utility either forfeits the allowances or
identifies a compensating unit.  With respect to unforseen
changes in economics as a cause of reduced utilization; Jim
Markowsky asked what should happen in the case where the
economics changed by 10%.  Ned Helme said he did not think a 10%
change would occur within the timeframe they were concerned with
(about 10 years' from the baseline years of 1985-87).  Jim
Markowsky agreed.

Jim Markowsky said there is a need to remain flexible and to be
prospective, but that he does hot agree with Ned Helme about the
need to be retrospective.  He feels this is a major point of
departure that needs to be dis|cussed by the Subcommittee.  Rachel
Hopp said that, if reduced utilization is used as a compliance
method, then there needs to be some level of retrospective review
to ensure compliance.  Jim Marjkowsky responded that the utility
cannot predict changes in weather or economics.  He said that the
utility uses the best information available at the time the
compliance plan is prepared to make projections.  He argued that
there is no need for the utility to be retrospective when: (1)
the change in utilization is not under the utility's control; and
(2) the utility is not exceeding its emissions limits.

Rachel Hopp said, without being retrospective a utility would not
know if the utilization had been transferred to a compensating
                                18

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                                                              P21

unit or if there had been a shift in load.  Jim Markowsky said
that this type of accounting is already done on a state basis,
and that it is an accounting nightmare.  Dick Abdoo reiterated
the complexity of this issue and asked Walter from his staff to.
discuss.

Walter Wolf (from the audience) said that the purpose of Section
408 is to prevent "gaming", but that there are also normal
fluctuations in utilization, as when a unit is taken off-line for
repairs.  He said that: (1) any compliance plan must be in good
faith and must be enforceable; and (2) if a utility is running
under Phase I and something unplanned occurred to the extent that
this unit is no longer operational, the utility should not be in
a position to loose allowances.  He feels Ned Helme has ignored
the scenario where all utilization would come from Phase II
units.

Rachel Hopp raised the issue of enforceability.  If the
compliance plan says that allowances will be provided to
compensating units, how is this enough information on which to
make a compliance decision? She said that without information on
generation, there is no way to verify reduced utilization by the
unit.  She argued that some type of check is needed.

Jeff White (audience) said that the Congressional Record (May 17,
1990) does not support Ned's "retrospective" concept.  He said
the Senate and House reports spoke in prospective terms.  He said
that Section 408 differs from earlier versions and that
408(c)(l)(B) is extremely broad and general, and mentioned that
the compensating unit provision was written over two years ago.
He feels, however, that if Congress intended this provision to be
"retrospective", this would be explicit in the legislation.  He
argued that if EPA's intent was to develop an independent
regulatory system, this should have been done through the
legislation and not at this point in time.  He said that the
primary parameter is tonnage of SO2 and that no where in the
legislation is it suggested that the compensating unit is a
regulated parameter.  He agrees with Ned's concepts on a
prospective basis, but argues that, based on the House and Senate
reports, the retrospective concept is not supported.

Dick Abdoo said that with Jeff's interpretation, a decrease in
utilization of a Phase I unit that is "made up" by a compensating
unit would never be part of the compliance plan.  Jeff White
(audience) argued that if Congress intended for this, they would
have included specific language regarding a "retrospective look".
He questioned how well this was debated in Congress.   Ned Helme
pointed out that a 20% fluctuation in generation threshold was
considered by Congress and taken out, and said he did not believe
Congress fully debated this issue.

                                19

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                              ;                                 P21

 Brain McLean noted that much of the legislation was written two
 years ago,  and since that time, a number of things have changed.
 Originally it was assumed that the compliance plan would be
 extensive.   Now this is questionable;  it depends on how EPA
 defines the compliance plan.  '

 Rachel Hopp noted that, if reduced utilization .is identified as
 an alternative method of compliance, then the compliance plan
 would not need to be revised.;  If,  however,  it is not identified,
 the compliance plan would need to be revised in order for the
 utility to use reduced utilization as  a  method of compliance.
 Brian McLean asked what happens if reduced utilization is not
 identified,  but that at the end of the year it turns out that
 this happened - would the compliance plan need to be amended?
 Rachel Hopp responded that the statute would appear to require an
 amendment,  and that this is where the  need for a retrospective
 look comes  into play.   If the :utility  fails to revise and meet
 the plan,  it is in violation of the regulations.

 Jerry Eyster said that Ned's approach  to accounting is fairly
 simple,  but he is concerned about any  requirements that would
 cause the utility to count on |a "minute-by-minute" or "hour-by-
 hour" basis.   He said the Subcommittee needs to discuss what
 level of detail is needed.  Ned Helme  added that the compliance
 plans need  to be stringent, yet flexible - the utilities should
 be  allowed  to trade to compensating units,  but if they are
 allowed to  shift load,  this could destroy the concept.   Jeff
 White added  that the line of thinking  could be advanced either
 way - that  it was hard to say what  might trigger a lawsuit.   Dick
 Abdoo said that Ned's  proposal  seemed  to leave the decision  in
 the hands of the owner/operator to  trade the allowances or
 identify compensating  units and keep the allowances.   He did not
 see a basis  for a lawsuit.  Jejff White restated his  argument that
 a retrospective approach  would  have been spelled out in the
 legislation,  if this had  been Congress's intent.   Dick Abdoo
 argued a retrospective approach is  not precluded.  Jeff White
 argued that  it is precluded, citing the  verb tenses  from the
 Congressional  reports.        !
                              i               .             .
 Rachel Hopp  explained  that  the  term "proposed  compliance  plan",
 refers to the  plan which  is submitted  by the applicant,"  and  that
 it  is  distinct from the term "final compliance plan" referring to
the plan that  has been  signed-pff on by  EPA  and  for which  a
permit has been  issued.   She stated that she did not believe the
term  "proposed" was meant to imply that the  compliance plan
should be prospective only, and that this terminology  is used
consistently,  regardless of which compliance alternative  is
chosen.  Finally she noted that the statute made the planning
obligation enforceable, requiring a retrospective look.
                                20

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                                                              P21

 Dick Abdoo .asked  Jeff White what  alternative  suggestions he had.
 Jeff White  said that he has strongly  argued that the compensating
 unit provision is prospective.  Therefore, he proposes that
 companies can "discharge  the duty"  of this provision simply by
 submitting  projections of utilization for the Phase I unit.   If
 the projection is equal to or higher  than the baseline and EPA
 agrees that the projection is reasonable, then the company has
 meet the obligations under this provision.  Rachel Hopp asked
 what criteria EPA would use to determine if this projection was
 sensible.   Jeff said that EPA could compare the projection to the
 Energy Administration data available, and apply the readily
 foreseeable growth rates  to verify  the projection.

 Brian McLean asked about  a 35 year  old unit and how would EPA
 know if there had been a  drop?  Jim Markowsky said that there is
 no basis to assume that this unit would cycle; the age of the
 unit is not important.  Brian McLean  clarified that what he was
 asking was  how valid 35 year old data were in projecting future
 utilization?  Rachel Hopp added that  she was  concerned about  the
 resources needed  to do this.  Permit  application reviews to
 determine if the  projection was reasonable would be very resource
 intensive.   She did not think these reviews could be done in  a
 timely manner, and asked  what happens if EPA  disagrees with a
 utility's own forecast?   Jeff White said that Ned had opened  the
 door on making utilization a regulated parameter.  He then asked
 Rachel if she was concerned that companies might falsify
 forecasts.  Dick Abdoo said it was  not an issue of whether the
 company would falsify a forecast, but. rather the difficulty  in
 developing  a correct forecast.  Rachel Hopp reitereited her
 concerns about the resource drain of  such an  approach.  Jeff
 White asked which was more resource intensive - reviewing the
 reasonableness of a forecast once or  conducting retrospective
 reviews year-by-year?  Rachel argued  that EPA has to do the
 latter to determine the success of  the program and that the
 reviews would be based on actual data, not on forecasts.  Jerry
 Eyster said the burden for a utility  to calculate on an annual
 basis if they went up or down is trivial compared to the bigger
 burden of developing a 5-year forecast.

 Jeff White and Luther Heckman asked about civil penalties.  Ned
 Helme said he thought they would not  apply.   He said his approach
 is trying to support a simpler approach to compliance.  Dick
 Abdoo suggested the Subcommittee give this further
 consideration.  He suggested they not focus on the "lack of
 discussion" in the Congressional record about a retrospective
view,  since it seems clear that the Subcommittee members disagree
with Jeff White;  and believe that the Act does allow a
retrospective approach.
                                21

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                                                               P21

 Jeff White argued that, under,Ned Helme's approach, the use of
 compensating units creates continuing obligations on the part of
 the^utility.  He argued that his approach is a "one shot"
 obligation and that a continuing obligation with EPA ijs not
 advisable.  He also said that he does not read the law as
 requiring a threshold level, therefore, it should not apply.  Ned
 Helme responded that he is only talking about an approach
 applicable until the year 2000.  He said the law does not
 preclude his approach and that the law actually lays the
 groundwork for his arguments.  Jeff White responded he did not
 feel  this was valid.   He said jthe absence of language should not
 be used as a basis for an argument.

 To clarify the issues, Rachel ;Hopp paraphrased Jeff White's paper
 of 1/11 for AEP: his  argument is that the initial permit
 application submission has to !have a compliance plan strategy and
 if reduced utilization is proposed, then this must be addressed
 in the plan.   Once the plan is submitted,  there is no further
 obligation on the part of the company.   At the time of initial
 submittal, therefore,  if the qompany is planning to use
 compensating units, it needs to say so in the plan.  However,  if
 at the time of the initial submittal,  the company does not plan
 to do this,  this would not be 'in the plan.   If this company later
 decided to use reduced utilization as a compliance methods,  the
 company would be under no obligation to amend and resubmit the
 compliance plan.  Jeff  said this was a correct description of his
 position.   An amendment of the Title IV compliance plan has to be
 with  the consent of the owner/'operator,  per Section 408 (b).
 Rachel Hopp asked him  if he agreed that the compliance plan was
 binding.   He  said he did,  but that 408(b)(2)(c)  only requires  a
 statement.  Rachel Hopp clarified that the  statement language
 applies only  in cases  where the company plans to meet the
 emissions  limit by the compliance deadline  (i.e.,  if the company
 did not plan  to use any alternative compliance strategies).   If
 the company planned to use an alternative method for compliance,
 then  the additional information required by EPA regulations  would
 need^to be included in the compliance plan.   The compliance  plan
 is  binding and  enforceable,  but the plan can be amended at any
 time,  if a different alternative is used at a later point in
 time.   Jeff agreed with this.  :        •  .

 Jim Hambright said the plan  shpuld  be amended prospectively.
 Dick Abdoo asked who had the  obligation  to  amend the plan.   Jim
 Hambright  said the utility hasithe  burden.   Rachel  Hopp added
 that the test Ned proposes provides  the  basis.  Dick Abdoo said
 that if the utility files  a compliance plan,  then determining  if
 the plan needs to be modified should be  easy  for the utility.
Whereas for EPA to make  this determination, he was  not  sure  how
 EPA would get enough information to determine  if a  compliance
plan needed to be modified.

                                22

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                                                              P21

Tom Maiman added that weather and cither unforseen deviations
should not trigger a change to the compliance plan,.  Dick Abdoo
said that if abnormal weather causes a change, how does the
company explain its plans to keep the utilization up?  He said
that it might  look like the company had a compensating unit that
it had not told EPA about.

Vicki Tschinkel asked whether the compliance plan should include
recordkeeping  requirements.  Dick Abdoo suggested there be an
annual report  of some type on how the company complied.  Vicki
Tschinkel added that the definition of success is difficult.
Rachel Hopp said that if a company can demonstrate that the
utilization fell below the baseline due to unplanned events, such
as weather or  economics, this might be treated differently than
cases where the company makes no demonstration.  She then asked
the Subcommittee about the reporting requirement isssue.  Jim
Markowsky said that a year-end accounting might be part of some
type of year end report.  Jerry Eyster said there are a number of
routine reports that utilities file already, though he did not
think these reports would dove-tail well with the information on
utilization.

Jim Hambright  said that the reporting requirement should be
somewhat dependent on EPA resources.  He suggested that reporting
on a more frequent basis might make more sense then sending in
reams of paper at year end.  Rachel Hopp agreed.  Jerry Eyster
mentioned monthly generation reports.  Rachel said these would be
hard to use to tell the variation for the year.  Dick Abdoo said
that if the load is dropped off the dirty units, then the company
could get into trouble.

Jerry Eyster asked if there was agreement regarding the issue of
retrospective?  Jeff White said that there seemed to be agreement
regarding the  use of the system-wide approach and the threshold
test, but that the hang-up seemed to be the legal issue of
prospective vs. retrospective.   Tony Ahern, in the audience, also
of AEP,  said he agreed with Jeff, especially for smaller
utilities.  For example, he said that the Buckeye utility has
only 2 units.  With the "fix" that has been offered, he said this
utility would have to turn over its allowances.  Rachel Hopp and
Jerry Eyster both suggested that the utility can buy power as an
option.   Tony asked what the utility was to do if the unit was
out for 6 months?  Rachel Hopp suggested it could go to another
unit, bring in a compensating unit - the goal is to ensure that
there is no increase in emissions.   Tony asked how a small
utility could do this - does the utility have to certify the
emission rate of the power they are sold?  He added that,  even if
the small utility had a compensating unit,  this unit becomes a
Phase I  affected unit,  which would pose problems for the utility.
If the small utility does not have a compensating unit,  then

                               23

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                              ;                                 P2l
                              i
 turning in the allowances is the only option for smaller
 utilities.                    !

 Rachel Hopp asked if the ability to "track"  compensation  is  lost
 as  power is transferred over the grid (i.e.,  do we know where  the
 energy is coming from?)   Ned Helme said that the utility  selling
 the power needs to look at this; the utility would need to
 determine this in order to make a decision about the  rate for
 selling the power to another utility.

 Dick Abdoo said it did not lopk like the Subcommittee was going
 to  reach consensus at this time.  He added that he sees no fatal
 flaws  in Ned Helme's approach,  and recommended  that the
 Subcommittee give this issue additional thought.

 Steve  Mindak (audience)  said that many utilities are  planning  to
 reduce utilizations at their "dirty" units and  increase use  of
 the "cleaner" units.   He said he does not want  to see ;any
 disincentive for this.   He referred to the cost of dispatch  in
 1995 and added he did not wan^  utilities to  have to wait  until
 the year 2000 to make these changes.   Dick Abdoo noted  that  the
 Subcommittee needed to work within the confines of the  law.  He
 added  that  any Phase II  unit that is used to compensate becomes a
 Phase  I affected unit and will  have to meet  NOX requirements.
                              I
 Dick said there was more work to do on this  and asked the
 Subcommittee to try to come up  with something next week.

 Substitution Units            ;

 Luther Heckman led  the discussion.   He said  he  did not  receive
 any comments on his paper since the last conference call.
 Several members indicated they  had not had time to focus  on  the
 issues.   He recapped the main points  of the  paper,  and  asked if
 there  were  any items  to  be discussed specifically.  Rachel Hopp
 said she would like to Subcommittee to discuss  the argument
 raised in the paper of whether,  if a  substitute unit  is brought
 in,  the original unit is  no Ibnger affected.

 Tom Maiman  said that  for  the  affected  units  listed on Table  A,
 there  is  no  way to  make these ; units "unaffected".   Luther Heckman
 said that this  interpretation :makes substitution  a disadvantage
 to  a utility.   Rachel Hopp  cited Section 404(c)(2)  which  says
 that both the  original and  substitute  units are affected under
 this title.   Luther Heckman suggested  the  need  to  consider
 another  interpretation,  in  order to make substitution a viable
 compliance alternative.   Brain McLean  said he does  not see any
way  around the  interpretation that  both  units are  affected.   Dick
Abdoo asked Luther to clarify |what  happens if both units are
 affected.  Luther said his concern  was the NOX  requirements.

                                24

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                                                              P21

 Rachel  referred him to  the  NOX  averaging provision..  Luther
 responded that  this was a double NOX requirement  and asked the
 Subcommittee  to recognize that  this interpretation essentially
 removed substitution as a compliance tool.  Tom Maiman reiterated
 that  the law  does  not permit this  interpretation.  He added that
 there were a  number of  cyclone  units for which the NOX
 requirements  would not  apply.   These units could  be effectively
 used  as substitution units.                .

 Dick  Abdoo asked if there was consensus that both the original
 and substitute  units were affected units.  The Subcommittee
 members agreed.

 Luther  mentioned that in addition  to this issue,  he would like, to
 receive comments on the other issues discussed in his paper.

 Rachel  Hopp asked  for discussion on the question  of "control" by
 the owner/operator,  and whether the Designated Representative has
 adequate "control"  to take  care of this, or whether control
 requires "significant ownership".  Luther Heckman said that if
 someone can state  to EPA that they have significant ownership and
 had agreement to control the unit, the language of the Designated
 Representative would need to parallel this idea.  Rachel
 clarified that the  idea of  the  Designated Representative was not
 ownership,  but control.  Jerry  Eyster referred to the earlier
 discussions on the  Designated Representative (during the
 discussion of transfer  units).  Rachel Hopp said  the question is
 what  does  the term  "control" mean, since this term might imply
 within  the same  company.  She asked if the Designated
 Representative could cover  different utilities involved in
 central dispatching?  Brain McLean said that they need to
 recognize  the differences between  transfer units  arid substitution
 units.   He said, while  the  law  does not preclude  the Designated
 Representative covering different  utilities, it may not be
 practical  for addressing the control requirements in the case of
 substitution units.   Jim Hambright asked if "control" meant
 control  of  dispatch?  Rachel Hopp  said the term meant sufficient
 control  to bind  owners  and  operators,  and could include control
 over  dispatch.   Tom Maiman  said this could be a problem, since
 the person who controls  the dispatch may not be in control of the
 unit.    The Subcommittee  had a general discussion  of the
 dispatcher's responsibilities.

 Jim Hambright asked Vincent (audience)  for clarification.
Vincent  said that the operator just runs the boiler;  the load
 could come  from anywhere.  Rachel Hopp said that the Subcommittee
 is not bound by traditional CAA definitions of "operator".   They
 can define operator broadly to include the dispatcher.   Jim
Hambright asked about legal actions?  Rachel Hopp referring to
 Section  402, said that the Designated Representative needs to be

                                25

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                                                              P21
able to legally bind the owner;/operator.  Although the
ramifications of this have not! been discussed, she said maximum
flexibility cannot be achieved; unless there is at a minimum,
joint and several liability.  Tom Maiman said the operator has
control over compliance.  Rachel Hopp said the question of
liability , if there is multiple ownership, may be resolved
between the owners; however, EPA does not want to become involved
in those disputes, which are governed by contract and property
law.  Instead, EPA wants to deal with one Designated
Representative.  Tom Maiman said the Designated Representative
would need to get agreement from each dispatcher on compliance.
Rachel Hopp said this would be an issue for the utilities to deal
with internally.  Jim Hambright asked if the Designated
Representative would be criminally liable if he signed records
incorrectly?  Rachel Hopp said; there is no criminal negligence
provisions for recordkeeping violations.  She said liability
would be similar to that of corporate officials.  Dick Abdoo
mentioned the NRC.

Dick Abdoo suggested EPA explore the role of the Designated
Representative.  Rachel Hopp s;aid that if the Designated
Representative is properly certified by some standardized
procedure, EPA will have what they need.  EPA wants to avoid
complex demonstrations.

Luther Heckman agreed to revise his paper, based on both the
original and substitute units being affected.

Dick Abdoo asked about issue B in this paper - should any
limitations be imposed on units that are considered substitute
units?  Tom Maiman said that what if there are multiple units?
Rachel said the paper needs to be modified to reflect this.

Dick Abdoo asked about issue C - representation based on
ownership and how to deal with a change in ownership. Rachel said
this had been discussed in terms of the Designated
Representative.  Dick Abdoo said that a change in ownership (if
it required recertification - i.e., the utility wants to change
Designated Representatives) would require a modification to the
compliance plan.  Jerry Eyster added that this should not affect
the initial approval.  Dick Abdoo said that any change in
ownership should require recertification of the designated
representative.  Luther will add this to the paper.

Dick Abdoo asked about issue D - adequate documentation.  Luther
said he read from the Act regarding what was needed. Rachel Hopp
said that if the Act specifies 5 items, then all five need to be
provided.  Brian McLean asked if there was anything beyond the 5
items that needed to be provided?  Luther mentioned the idea of
commitment, but that he does not see anything beyond that.

                                26

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                                                              P21

Dick Abdoo mentioned that issue E was going to be revised per
today's discussions, then asked about issue F - demonstrations of
attainment.  Rachel Hopp explained there was a prevision in Title
IV that allows the Administrator to require demonstrations of
attainment,  Jim Hambright said the underlying value of this is
that the utility must be able to certify it is in attainment.
Rachel Hopp explained as further background, that generally under
the CAA, states are obligated to develop a SIP that attains the
NAAQS; the utility is responsible for meeting the SIP
requirements.  Jim Hambright said that a number of units assume
they are in compliance with the NAAQS.  Rachel asked if this was
a basis to require a demonstration in the case of a substitution
unit?  Jim Hambright said only if the substitution unit is not in
an area in compliance with the NAAQS.

Jerry Eyster said that as part of the submission, do we want this
type of certification for each unit?  Jim Hambright said that
there should be a general permitting requirement for
certification - not just for Title IV.  Rachel Hopp said that the
Subcommittee needed to clarify the concept of "certification" vs
"may require demonstration".  Dick Abdoo said that, the
certification was that the utility is in compliance with the
NAAQS.  Jerry Eyster said that if the state SIP is not in
compliance with the NAAQS, how can you hold the utility liable
for the inadequate SIP?  John Daniel said that in Virginia, there
is no grandfathering.  If model a new source, you assume that the
existing source is running wide open, therefore it. is common for
the model to show that there are NAAQS violations.  Jerry Eyster
asked under Title V, is there a certification requirement to get
an operating permit?  David Novello of OGC responded that not for
NAAQS;  the certification is for compliance with the SIP.

Rachel Hopp asked for clarification.  Jerry Eyster said that he
did not see why, if every unit already had a permit under Title
V, there was a need to duplicate efforts.  Rachel Hopp said that
the sate operating permits may not be in effect at the time
Phase I of Title IV is underway.  She reviewed the timing for
permitting under the Title IV vs. Title V; and noted that the
states have 3 years after enactment to develop their Title V
programs.

Walter Wolf (audience)  said that he would caution against
certifying compliance with the SIP.  He said that in the case of
Wisconsin, the SIP has been pending for 6 years; therefore, a
utility would not know what the SIP is.  He added that SIPs have
been around for 20 years and that EPA has had time to enforce
against these.  He suggested EPA not add an extra certification
requirement.
                                27

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                                                              P21
                              j
Vicki  Tschinkel  added  that  on'e way  of  eliminating  flexibility
would  be  to  require a  certification that you meet  all state
requirements.  A state may  try to come in and  eliminate things
like trading.  Rachel  Hopp  said that outreach  to states will be
needed.   She clarified that,  regardless of the certification
issue, EPA's issuance  of the  permit does not limit what a state
can do, if there is a  compliance problem with  the  SIP.  Jim
Hambright added  that EPA does have  responsibility  for enforcing
the SIP.                      !   . .

Dick Abdoo said  that it now appears that the Subcommittee does
not want  certifications in  acid rain permit applications for any
non-acid  rain program  requirements.

He then asked if there were any comments on issue  G.  Jim
Hambright said no utility should be allowed to raise this as a
defense.  Jerry  Eyster asked  if an  example could be provided.
Luther Heckman said he would  include one.
                              i
Dick Abdoo asked about issue  H - need  for constraints.  The
Subcommittee responded they did not think there should be any
unnecessary  constraints; Rachel Hopp added other than Phase I.

For issue I  - partial  substitution  units, Dick Abdoo said this
does not  make sense, he does  not know  why anyone would do this.
Several Subcommittee members  agreed.   Rachel Hopp  explained that
a utility might  want several  units  to  make-up  for  the emission
reduction requirements at the;original unit, referring to the "in
whole  or  in  part" language.   |

Luther Heckman will revise  his paper based on  these discussions.
                              i
At 4:30 PM,  Dick Abdoo said that the Subcommittee  discussions on
the options  papers  were concluded.  The remainder  of the meeting
would be  a presentation by  Dayid Novello, EPA  OGC, on ^Title V.

David Novello said,  given the[limited  time remaining, he would
provide a quick  overview of Title V as it related  to Title IV.
                              [
He began  with an overview of who must  have a permit.  He said
Section 501  and  502(b)  deal with this.  Sources include "affected
sources"  under Title IV, new  sources subject to Part C&D, new
sources,  and major  sources.  He added  that there were no
exemptions for major sources which  is  the biggest  category.  He
mentioned that EPA  is  allowed to add or exempt other categories
(unless it is a  major  source)^ if EPA has determined that it is
too burdensome or impractical to regulate.  He mentioned in the
draft Title V rule, EPA is  considering exempting non-major
categories.   Rachel Hopp added that EPA was not proposing to
exempt sources under Title  IV.

                               28

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                                                              P21

 He mentioned  that  much  of  the Acid Rain permit requirements will
 be deferred to  the acid rain rulemaking.  He mentioned  some
 general Title V rules and  some  of the differences between Title V
 and Title  IV:

      o     If  the utility has a  timely and complete permit
           application under Title V, it is allowed to operate,
           even  if  the state has not  issued a permit.

      o     Under Title IV,  what  is in the permit applications and
           the compliance plan is binding on the source  and
           governs  the operation.  This is not the case  for
           permits  generally.

      o     The permit shield is  modified and limited by  the
           statute  as to program requirements.

      o     Timing - applications for  Title IV may be coming in
           before the state programs  under Title V are in place.

      o     Under Title V, the permit  is reopened to. reflect new
           changes;  if EPA  or the state reopen for cause, this
           could impact  the Acid Rain program.

      o     Title V  permits  are issued for "up to" 5 years; Title
           IV  for a definite term of  5 years.

Rachel Hopp referred the Subcommittee to the draft Title V
regulations table  of contents,  which references 3 sections that
explain EPA's thinking  on  Title IV and V integration.   She said
the Subcommittee will have an opportunity to discuss this at a
later date.   She mentioned National  Consistency - and the need
for the states  to  feel  comfortable with whatever EPA decides.
Jim Hambright and  Tom Madman added that Title V does not provide
for standard permitting other than for Acid Rain.

David Novello mentioned the Title IV NAAQS demonstration
authority.   He  said, although this type of authority also exists
under Title V,  EPA's approach will be to not require a
demonstration,  if there is compliance with the emissions limits.

Dick Abdoo thanked the Subcommittee for participating in the
meeting.   The meeting was adjourned at 5:05 PM.
                               29

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                                                              P21
                            Attachment
              Subcommittee Members  Attending Meeting
                              i
                              I
Richard Abdoo, Wisconsin Electlric Power
                              i
Steven Winberg, Consolidated Natural Gas

William Steinmeier, Missouri public Service Commission

William Samuel, United Mine Wprkers of America

James Markowsky, AEP Services iCorp.

Ned Helme, Alliance for Acid Rain Control

James Hambright, PADER Bureau of Air Quality Control
                              i
Paul Feira, Wheelabrator Air Pollution Control

Jerry Eyster, A.T. Massey  Coal Company

Thomas Maiman, Commonwealth Edison

Steve Busrton, Sithe Energies  i

Luther Heckman, Coalition  for ; Environment-Energy Balance

John Daniel, VA Department of Air Pollution Control

Vicki Tschinkel, Landers and Parsons

Howard Fox for Bill Roberts, Environmental Defense Fund

Robbie Aiken for Mark DeMichele, Arizona Public Service Co,


EPA Representatives:

Rachel Hopp, ARD/OAR          |

Brian McLean, ARD/OAR         ;
                                30

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                    P 22

                     33
      PRINCIPLES
FOR ACID RAIN PERMITS

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                                ? 22
                               NOr
                            EMISSIONS
                            AVERAGING
OMPOANCE OPOONS

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                                      P 22
ACID  RAIZV PERMIT
                       DESIGNATED
      SOURCE
                     REPRESENTATIVE
   IDENTIFICATION
                        OPERATING
                       INFORMATION
    MONITORING
    INFORMATION
                        ALLOWANCE
                        ALLOCATION
STANDARD CONDITIONS
            C INFORMATION

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                                                   P 22
        ACID RAIN PERMIT
STANDARD
 PROHIBITIONS
RECORDKEEPING
          *^W&&'S? ."'-
       ; •>;••«*. £»•> ^as^ -.^ /s ^ „ ,  '
                                         SPECIFIC
                                            ''
                                      SOURCE
                                  IDENTIFICATION
                                   DESIGNATED
                                    REPRESENTATIVE
                                       OPERATING
                                      INFORMATION
                                    MONITORING
                                   INFORMATION
                                    ALLOWANCE
                                    ALLOCATION
              SPECIFIC INFORfilATION

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                                                          p 2:
              ACID  RAJIV  PERMIT
                                                     NOx
                                                 ALTERNATIVE
                                                  EMISSIONS
                                                   LIMITS
EXTENSIONS
   SUB-
STITUTION
  PLANS
                                                  EMISSIONS
                                                  AVERAGING
                                        CON-
                                     SERVATION/
                                     RENEWABLE®
             REDUCED
            UTILIZATION
                        REPOWERING
                        EXTENSIONS
                   OPT-IN
                   UNITS
                                 NEW UNITS

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                                                P 22
       ACID RAIPf PERMIT
               PHASE I
                                             NOx
                                         ALTERNATIVE
                                          EMISSIONS
                                            LIMITS
  PHASE I
EXTENSIONS
                                          NOx
                                       EMISSIONS
                                       AVERAGING
      SUB-
    STITUTION
      PLANS
                             CON-
                          SERVATION/
                          RENEWABLES
                 REDUCED
                UTILIZATION
                                            OPT-IN
                                            UNITS
PHASE I ONLY
                                 ANY TIME

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                                                      P 22
            ACID RAIN PERMIT
                    PHASE II
                                                 NOx
                                             ALTERNATIVE
                                               EMISSIONS
                                                LIMITS
REPOWERING
EXTENSIONS
                                               NOx
                                             EMISSIONS
                                             AVERAGING
                                 CON-
                               SERVATION/
                              RENEWABLES
                                                OPT-IN
                                                UNITS
NEW UNITS
     PHASE II ONLY
                                       ANY TIME

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                                                  :    T+-     ^


                  FACT SHEET: REDUCED UTILIZATION

 Section  408  of  the Clean  Air Act Amendments  of 1990  details
 requirements for acid rain permits.  Section 408(c)(1)(B) (dealing
 with First  Phase permitting)  introduces  the concept  of  reduced
 utilization.  This section provides, in relevant part/as follows:

      In the case of a compliance plan for an affected source under
      section 404 or 407 for which the owner or operator proposes to
      meet the requirements of that section by reducing utilization
      of the unit as compared with its baseline, or by shutting down
      the unit,  the owner or operator shall include in the proposed
      compliance plan a specification of the unit or units that will
      provide electrical generation to compensate for  the  reduced
      output at the affected  source, or a  demonstration that such
      reduced  utilization  will be  accomplished  through  energy
      conservation or improved unit efficiency. The  unit to be used
      for such  compensating  generation  .   .  .  shall be deemed  an
      affected  unit  under section 404,  subject to all  of  the
      requirements for such units under  this  title  . ...

 Regulatory  treatment  of  reduced  utilization  has  significant
 implications  for all Phase I  sources and for the environment.

 Identified Concern

 In  the  absence  of  the reduced utilization provision,  Phase I
 sources   could,   theoretically,   comply   with   the   reduction
 requirements  by shifting a portion of their  electrical  generation
 (and  with it, their emissions)  to presently unregulated Phase  II
 sources.   This could lead to a significant  increase in  emissions
 from  Phase  II  sources,  and  a reduction in  the   environmental
 benefits  expected during Phase  I.


 Operation of  the  Reduced Utilization Px-ovision

 The reduced utilization provision seeks  to  remove this possibility
 by  requiring  sources  planning  to  comply  with  the  Phase  I
 requirements  by  reducing  their emissions below their baseline
 levels to:

  a.  identify  a  "compensating unit"  - a unit which will provide
 electrical generation to compensate for the reduced output at the
 affected source.  It should be noted that once a unit is designated
 as a compensating unit,  it becomes a Phase I affected unit and is
 required to comply with all Phase I requirements, including those
 related to emissions monitoring and NOsc.

                               OR

  b.  demonstrate that the reduced utilization will be accomplished
through energy conservation or improved unit efficiency.  It should
be noted  that in  this latter  case,  since generation is not being

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transferred  (and related increases in emissions at Phase II units
do  not occur),  reduced utilization  at  the Phase  I source  is
environmentally neutral or, given the pollution prevention result
of this option, environmentally beneficial.

But what  of sources that  do  not plan to  comply  through reduced
utilization, yet do, in fact, reduce their utilization of Phase I
units and shift some of their load to unregulated Phase II sources
for reasons of economics or unexpected repairs?

In  terms  of  environmental  protection,  this  can raise  serious
problems.    As  noted  above,  reduced  utilization which is  not
compensated for within  the regulated system will  lead to a lower
level of emissions reductions than that contemplated by the Act's
Phase I requirements.

An Illustration             :

Figures 1  and 2  provide a simplified  example of the potential
environmental concerns  raise'd by reduced  utilization.   Figure 1
illustrates normal Phase I  compliance in which reduced utilization
is not an  issue.   In that example, a Phase I unit (Unit A) complies
with acid rain requirements by  cutting  its SO2 emissions rate in
half  (from  5.0 Ibs/mmBtu  to 2.5  Ibs/mmBtu),  while  keeping  its
baseline  utilization  (heat (input)  constant.    By reducing  its
emissions rate, the unit reduces its annual SO2  emissions to the
level  for  which  the  utility has  received  allowances (50,000).
During the  same year  a Phase II unit (Unit  B) owned  by the same
utility emits 25,000 tons of:SO2, at a rate of .2.5 Ibs/mmBtu.

In Figure  2, the utility does not control the emissions rate at its
Phase I unit (Unit A).  Instead Unit A continues to emit S02 at a
rate of 5 Ibs/mmBTU while reducing its utilization to one half of
its baseline.  Assuming there has been  no overall (e.g.. system-
wide) decrease in  demand for electricity,  the utility must increase
its utilization at some other unit in its  system to compensate for
the  reduced generation  at Unit A.    For  the  purposes  of  this
illustration, a Phase II unit (Unit B)  increases its utilization.
The result  of this transferred  utilization is  that the utility's
Phase I unit reduces its tons of SO2 to the level for which it has
received  allowances,   and  tfee  utility's  Phase   II  unit,  which
increased  its generation  to compensate  for  Unit  A's  reduced
utilization,  increases  its emissions  by  25,000  tons.   If  this
"compensating unit" is not  identified by the affected source, this
extra 25,000 tons  of S02 is outside of,  and unaccounted for by, the
allowance system.   The environmental result in this case would be
an increase in emissions over and above the level of S02 emissions
envisioned by the statute for Phase I.

A  similar  increase  can  occur  in  NOx  emissions.    Indeed  the
environmental implications of increases in NOx emissions at Phase
II units  providing compensating generation is potentially  more

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 problematic since Phase II units are not by definition cleaner than
 Phase I units for NOx purposes.

 It  should  be  noted  that  while   this  example  shows  one  unit
 compensating for  the  reduced  utilization  at  Unit  A, reduced
 utilization from a  Phase I unit could be  picked up in part  by a
 number of Phase  II units, making accounting more  difficult.   This
 is particularly  true for  utilities that participate  in  large
 central dispatch systems.

 Potential Economic Benefits

 Given the fact that "compensating units11  have to  comply with Phase
 I   retirements,  won't   all  utilities   try  to  avoid  reduced
 utilization?

 The fact is,  units have  variable utilization,  and some utilities
 may not be  able  to  avoid the unplanned  application  of  this
 provision.  However,  there may be significant economic benefits for
 utilities which  designate  compensating  units as part  of  their
 overall  compliance strategy:

    0    Some Phase II units will   want  to be  brought  into the
 regulated system in Phase I to get  credit for earlier reductions

    0  Since Phase II  units emit at a rate substantially below  2.5,
 it  is possible that use of this provision would free up allowances
 for sale or future use while achieving equivalent reductions.

    0   Since all  Phase II units are required to  have monitors in
place in 1995, depending on a units NOx control requirements, early
compliance with Phase I requirements for compensating units might
not be  onerous,  and  given the benefits  described above, may be
economically advantageous.

-------
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                                                           P24
                   TOPICS COVERED  IN ACID RAIN
                        PERMIT REGULATIONS

DESIGNATED REPRESENTATIVE

COMPLIANCE CERTIFICATIONS

APPLICATION REQUIREMENTS/CONTENTS

     1.  General Plant Information
     2.  Certifications
          a.  Monitoring
          b.  Reporting/Recordkeeping
          c.  Prohibitions
          d.  Excess Emissions
     3.  Compliance Plan Required

REQUIREMENTS FOR OPTIONAL METHODS  OF COMPLIANCE
     1.  General - New
     2.  General - Opt-
     3.  General - NOx
     4.  General - NOx
     5.  Phase I Only -
     6.  Phase I Only -
     7.  Phase I Only -
     8.  Phase I Only -
     9.  Phase II Only

PERMIT CONTENTS
Units
•Ins
Alternative Emissions Limitations
Emissions Averaging
• Reduced Utilizcition
• Qualifying Extensions
• Substitutions
'• Renewable Energy/Energy Conservation
- Repowering
     1.  Initial Allowance Allocation
     2.  Standard Conditions
     3.  Permit Shield
     4.  Prohibitions
     5.  Reporting/Recordkeeping
     6.  Compliance Plan
     7.  Monitoring Requirements
     8.  Excess Emissions

PHASE I IMPLEMENTATION

     1.  Procedures for Early Ranking for Qualifying Phase I
         Extensions
     2.  Deadlines for Applications/Compliance Plans
     3.  Deadlines for EPA Action
     4.  Effective Date of Phase I Permit

PHASE I - PHASE II TRANSITION

FEDERAL PERMIT ISSUANCE/CHALLENGES PROCEDURES

STATE PROGRAM PERMIT ISSUANCE REQUIREMENTS

EXCESS EMISSIONS REGULATIONS

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                                                     P25
                     PRIMER




                     ON THE




                 GLEAM WATER ACT




                 PERMIT PROGRAM




(National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System)
                 March 13, 1991

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         IAPTER  3   I,RW- AUTHORITY FOR A PERMIT PROGRAM AND  PERMIT ISSUANCE  PROCEDURES •
                                     I

                 FIGURE 3-1.  COMMON ELEMENTS  OF  THE PERMIT ISSUANCE PROCESS
                                   SIU Hies Permit Application
1
Yes
r
VufcSite
                                        Drift Pomit
                                           1
                                Send Draft Ptrmit to
                                Nocfy Ofce Imerea
                                Odw Public P«tkap«ion
                                                   for Review
                                                gyj Revue
                                         Draft Pennii
                                                                   Judicul Review
No
i
i
MOOJUT CfmPi'*tv'> ftttc*rmifra
During Effective Period of Permit
                                   Agpbcnt FUe* Renewil Appiicaion
:   industViaYller Permitting Guidance Manual, USEPA,  Office of Water (EN336) Sept.  1989
      NPDES TDermit  issuance procedures; (40 C.F.R.  Part 124).
      tS fcTSgnif icant industrial! user" , which means an
municipal sewer system.  The procedure!, however,  applies to all NPDES
                                                                                     +.„  -,

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                         CLEAN WATER ACT:
                     PUBLIC NOTICE  PROVISIONS
    (Also used in the Resource Conservation and Recovery Act,
         Underground Injection Control,  and Prevention  of
               Significant Deterioration Programs)
                         40 C.F.R.  124.10                 . •   .    '

WHO GETS NOTICE OP THE DRAFT PERMIT?

     1.   The applicant;                         :
     2.   Any agency which has issued a solid or hazardous waste
          disposal permit, and underground injection permit, a
          prevention of significant deterioration permit, a
          wastewater permit, a dredging permit, a sludge manage-
          ment permit, or an ocean dumping permit for the facili-
          ty;
     3.   Federal and State agencies with jurisdiction over fish,
          shellfish, and wildlife resources;
     4.   Any State agency responsible for development of an
          areawide waste treatment plan under CWA §208(b);
     5.  .Army Corps of Engineers;
     6.   U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service;
     7.   National Marine Fisheries Service;
     8.   Persons on a mailing list developed by:
          — Including those who request to be on the list; and
          - Periodic publications in the local press of the
          opportunity to be on the mailing list;
     9.   Any unit of local government with jurisdiction over the
          area where the facility is proposed to be located;
     10.  Any State agency having,authority under State law with
          respect to the construction or operation of the facili-
          ty.

WHAT OTHER PUBLIC NOTICE IS REQUIRED?

Part 124 also requires that notice be published in a daily or
weekly newspaper within the area affected by the source, and that
the permitting authority use  any other method reasonably calcu-
lated to give actual notice of the  action to the person poten-
tially affected by  it.

WHO CAN  SUBMIT PUBLIC COMMENTS?

Any person can submit written comments on the permit.

WHO CAN  REQUEST A PUBLIC HEARING?

Any person can request a public hearing.

WHEN WILL A REQUEST FOR  A  PUBLIC HEARING BE GRANTED?

Requests for  a public hearing will  be granted when there  is
significant public  interest or when the permitting authority
believes that holding a  hearing will clarify issues  involved in
the permitting decision.

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                         CLEAN WATER ACT:
               FEDERAL PERMIT CHALLENGE PROCEDURES
                   40 C.F.R. §§124.71 - 124.91

WHO CAN CHALLENGE A PERMIT?

Any interested person can petition to challenge a Federally-
issued wastewater disposal permit, but that person can only
submit issues or evidence which were raised during the public
comment period (or public hearing), unless good cause is shown
for failure to do so.       !

WHEN CAN A PERMIT BE CHALLENGED?

A permit can be challenged v^ithin 30 days of permit issuance.

WHAT PROCESS IS USED?

If the Regional Administrator grants the petition, there will be
a formal evidentiary hearing on the  issues raised.  An Adminis-
trative Law Judge is appointed to preside over the hearing and
rule on the issues.  The decision of the Administrative Law Judge
can be appealed to the Administrator within 30 days after that
decision.  Only following an unsuccessful appeal to the Adminis-
trator is judicial review available.
                            i
WHEN IS A PETITION GRANTED?

A petition for an evidentiary  hearing is granted when it sets
forth a material issue of fact relevant to the issuance of the
permit.  Petitions which raised only issues of law will be
denied, but can be appealed to the  Administrator, who will review
and rule on legal issues.

WHEN IS JUDICIAL REVIEW  GRANTED?

Judicial review is available  only after a party has appealed to
the Administrator.   A party can appeal the Administrator's
ruling, or the denial of an;evidentiary hearing.  Judicial review
takes place in federal courts.

WHAT PROC»TOES DO  STATES USE?

State permit  challenge procedures follow the  rules  of the  State
Administrative Procedures Apts, which may  or  may  not be  similar
to the  Federal evidentiary  hearing process.   Judicial review of
State-issued  permits takes  place  in State  courts.   (This is  not
codified  in regulations, but  Clean Water Act  case law since  1973
has held  that Federally-issued permits  are challenged  in Federal
court,  and State-issued  permits are challenged in State  court.)

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