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 9                    PUBLIC HEARING
                  Draft Programmatic EIS
10    Mountaintop Mining/Valley Fills in Appalachian
                Charleston, West Virginia
11                    July 24, 2003

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16                Evening Session:  7-11

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 1  APPEARANCES:

 2
    Mark A. Taylor, Chairman, US Army Corps of Engineers
 3
    Jeff Coker, Office of Surface Mining
 4
    Mitch Snow, U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service
 5
    Russell Hunter, WV Dept. of Environmental Protection
 6
    William J. Hoffman, US-EPA
 7
    Katherine Trott, U.S. Army Corps of Engineers
 9

10

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12

13

14

15               The Corps of Engineers, U.S.

16  Environmental Protection Agency, U.S. Fish and

17  Wildlife Service, U.S. Office of Surface Mining, and

18  West Virginia Department of Environmental Protection,

19  joint public meeting was held at 7:00 p.m.,

20  July 24, 2003, at the Charleston Civic Center,

21  Charleston, West Virginia before Michele G. Hankins,

22  Court Reporter.

23

24

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CONTENTS
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Introduction

By Mr
Speakers :
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:

. Chairman:

Mary Ellen 0' Farrell
Chris Hamilton
Scott Gollwitzer
Larry Emerson
Bill Gorz
Nick Carter
John Snider
Kent DesRosher
Randall Maggard
Michael Morrison
Julia Bonds
Lawrence Beckerle
Nanette Nelson
Larry Maynard
Vivan Stockman
Larry Gibson
Julian Martin
Janet Fout
James Maynard
Donna Price
Frieda Williams
Bill Price
Pam Medlin
Winnie Fox
Patty Sebok
Janice Neese
Chuck Wrostok
Marian Miller
Pauline Cantebury
Melvin Tyrce
Bill McCabe
Florence Twu
Abraham Mwaura
Connie Lewis
Paul Nelson
Monty Fowler
Denise Giardina

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38.   Jason Bostic                         145
39.   John Taylor                          149
40.   Fred Sampson                         151
41.   Leon Miller                          154
42.   Blair Gardner                        156
43.   Elaine Purkey                        160
44.   Sharon Murphy                        163
45.   Maria Pitzer                         167
46.   John Barrett                         171
47.   Lisa Millimet                        176
48.   Bill McCabe                          179

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                                                     5





 1                PROCEEDINGS





 2               MR.  CHAIRMAN:  Good evening.





 3               I would like to welcome you here to the





 4  public hearing on the draft Mountaintop Mining





 5  Programmatic Environmental Impact Statement.





 6               We will begin with some general





 7  information about the facilities here.





 8               This is a non-smoking facility.  We ask





 9  that you go outside the building to smoke.





10               Please note the location of the





11  emergency exits.   In the event of an emergency,





12  proceed in an orderly fashion as quickly as possible





13  to the nearest exits from the building.





14               The restrooms for the facility are





15  located out the back doors here; to the left, and





16  then to the left again.





17               Approximately every hour,  or so, during





18  the course of the hearing, we will call for a





19  five-minute comfort break.





20               Hopefully, this will provide sufficient





21  opportunity for everyone to take a break, and no one





22  will need miss what is said here today.





23               As you entered the forum,  you had to





24  have noticed the registration table.  We hope that

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                                                     6




 1  everyone registered as you came in.




 2               If by some chance you didn't, we ask




 3  that you take a moment to register before you leave.




 4  People will no doubt be coming and going throughout




 5  the hearing,  and this is the only way that we have to




 6  get a reasonable, accurate idea of the public




 7  participation at these hearings.




 8               Even more importantly, if you came here




 9  today with the intent of speaking at the hearing, you




10  must complete a registration card.




11               If you plan to speak and haven't already




12  registered, please go back and register as a speaker




13  now.




14               If there is anyone who cannot come up on




15  the podium to speak, please motion for me, and I will




16  be sitting here at the table and I will bring a




17  wireless microphone down to the front of the stage.




18               Let us all be courteous to the speakers




19  by turning off our cell-phone ringers, and be




20  respectful of the speakers, regardless of their point




21  of view.




22               Everyone's point of view is important,




23  and in fairness to all points of view, please respect




24  each speaker up here this evening.

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                                                     7




 1               With that said, let's move to a more




 2  substantial part of the public hearing.




 3               As you may well know, as part of the




 4  December 1998,  Settlement Agreement,  the agencies




 5  represented here on stage today, agreed to




 6  participate in the preparation of a Programmatic




 7  Environmental Impact Statement, on the impact of




 8  mountaintop mining and their associated valley fills.




 9               The purpose of this Programmatic EIS, as




10  specified in the settlement agreement, was:




11               "... to consider developing agency




12  policies, guidance, and coordinated agency




13  decision-making processes to minimize, to the maximum




14  extent practicable, the adverse environmental effects




15  to waters of the United States, and to fish and




16  wildlife resources, affected by mountaintop mining




17  operations, and to environmental resources that could




18  be affected by the size and locations of excess spoil




19  disposal sites in valley fills."




20               In the time period since the settlement




21  agreement,  the agencies have diligently worked on the




22  EIS.   The agencies' efforts accumulated in the




23  development and release of this draft EIS document




24  for public review on May 29th.

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 1               The usual review period for a draft EIS




 2  is 45 days.




 3               However,  recognizing the widespread




 4  interest in the document,  and the need to provide




 5  additional time for the public work their way through




 6  the complexities of its content,  we have extended the




 7  time frame for review and comment.




 8               A 90-days public review period,  and




 9  comment period, will close at the end of business on




10  August 29, 2003.




11               This is the second of two public




12  hearings in association with the development of this




13  document.




14               The purpose of these hearings is to hear




15  your comments on the draft EIS.




16               We cannot respond to your comments




17  during the hearing.




18               Your comments will be transcribed, and




19  we will respond to them in writing as part of the




20  final EIS.




21               We are here today to listen to you.  To




22  hear what you have to say relevant to the continued




23  development of the EIS document.




24               We recognize that many organizations,

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                                                     9




 1  and individuals, want to comment.  So we have




 2  structured these sessions to offer as many as




 3  possible the opportunity to do so.




 4               This session runs from 7 to 11 p.m.,




 5  this evening.  So we may be sure that we have




 6  provided everyone who may choose to speak an




 7  opportunity to do so, we must limit your speaking




 8  time to five minutes.




 9               Some of you may have more comments than




10  can be addressed in five minutes.




11               If so, you are encouraged to submit




12  these additional thoughts and comments in writing.




13               You do not need to speak here tonight to




14  submit comments.




15               You may submit written comments to




16  Mr. John Forren, U.S. EPA,  1650 Arch Street,




17  Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, 19103, through the close




18  of the comment period, on August 29, 2003.




19               This address is located on the flyer




20  that you received at the registration table.




21               We have also provided a comment box at




22  the registration table.




23               If you choose to, you may place your




24  written comments on the draft EIS, in that box, and

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                                                     10




 1  we will see that they are considered, along with the




 2  other written and oral comment.




 3               As we continue with today' s public




 4  hearing, we would like to take a few minutes to make




 5  you aware of some of the ground rules for this




 6  hearing, and describe how we intend to proceed.




 7               As indicated on the sign-in into




 8  building, for safety reasons, and so that all of the




 9  participants can see at the public hearing, we have




10  asked that everyone please refrain from bringing in,




11  or displaying signs, banners, or posters, into the




12  building.




13               We ask that you please be courteous as




14  others are speaking, and refrain from expressions of




15  support, or opposition, to comments a speaker is




16  making.




17               One of the things that I noticed, when




18  you applaud for a speaker, in the earlier sessions




19  today, you take away from their time, let's please




20  not do that.




21               As we proceed through the hearing, if




22  you have a need, for whatever reason, to reference




23  the draft EIS,  or appendices, copies of these




24  documents are available for reference in the foyer,

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                                                     11




 1  entrance way.




 2               Also, if you did not already receive a




 3  CD version of the draft EIS document, a limited




 4  number of CD' s of the draft document are available at




 5  the reference table at a first-come, first-serve




 6  basis.




 7               If we run out, and you would like to




 8  receive a copy of the CD, you may also leave your




 9  name, and address, with the person at the reference




10  desk, and a CD of the draft document will be mailed




11  to you.




12               As previously stated, in order to speak




13  at this hearing, you must register at the




14  registration desk in the foyer, or the entrance way




15  indicating your desire to speak.




16               If you did not come here intending to




17  speak,  but change your mind during the course of the




18  hearing, you, too, must register at the registration




19  desk.




20               Our planned five-minute comfort break,




21  approximately every hour, should provide an




22  opportunity for you to register to speak, if you




23  haven't already done so.




24               You may not register to speak, and then

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                                                     12




 1  give any portion of your speaking time to anyone




 2  else.




 3               If you speak,  and do not take the full




 4  five minutes allotted, we will proceed with the next




 5  speaker on the list.




 6               No one person may speak more than once.




 7  We will be calling out the names of those people who




 8  signed up to speak in the order of which we received




 9  them.




10               I will announce each person, as well as




11  the next name.




12               In order to keep things moving as




13  efficiently as possible, as a speaker is coming up on




14  the podium to speak, the next person to speak is




15  asked to move towards the podium, and sit here at the




16  bottom of the stairs.




17               Again, you must limit your comments to




18  no more than five minutes.




19               At the four-minute mark, we will hold up




20  a card indicating that you have one minute remaining,




21  so that you can begin winding up your comments.




22               In fairness to everyone who wishes to




23  speak, when we hold up the card indicating that your




24  time has expired, please end your comments.

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 1               If you have more comments, or just want




 2  to submit written comments, you may place them in the




 3  box at the registration table that was provided for




 4  receiving written comments, or mail them to the




 5  previously identified EPA Philadelphia address.




 6               Again, all comments will be transcribed.




 7               We ask those that are speaking to please




 8  speak clearly,  loudly enough to be heard, and be




 9  mindful of the fact that the transcriber is trying to




10  catch everything you are saying.




11               Also,  please direct the microphone




12  towards you,  it is  kind of directional, so please do




13  that, each person that comes up.




14               If the transcriber is having difficulty




15  hearing,  or understanding what you are saying, they




16  may stop you, and ask you to speak up or repeat what




17  you have said.




18               We ask that you begin speaking by




19  clearly stating your first and last names, and




20  indicating the community, and state that you are




21  from.




22               When transcribed, the oral comments and




23  written comments will be incorporated into a Comment




24  Summary Document, and will be a part of the final EIS

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                                                     14




 1  document.




 2               All comments will be considered in




 3  development of the final EIS document.




 4               Copies of the Comment Summary Document




 5  will be available upon request in association with




 6  the publication of the final EIS document.




 7               Again, I would like to emphasize that we




 8  all be courteous to the speakers.




 9               The first speaker tonight is




10  Mary Ellen O'Farrell.




11               The second speaker will be




12  Chris Hamilton.




13               If you all would like to come on




14  forward.




15               While they are doing that, I will ask




16  that each of the agency representatives up here at




17  the table to please introduce themselves.




18               MR. COKER:  I am Jeff Coker with the




19  Office of Surface Planning.




20               MR. SNOW:  Mitch Snow.  U.S. Fish &




21  Wildlife Service.




22               MR. HUNTER:  I am Russ Hunter with the




23  West Virginia Department of Environmental Protection.




24               MR. HOFFMAN:  I am Bill Hoffman, with

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                                                     15




 1  the Environmental Protection Agency.




 2               MS. TROTT:  Catherine Trott, with the




 3  Corps of Engineers.




 4               MR. CHAIRMAN:   Thank you.




 5               MS. O'FARRELL:   Good evening.




 6               My name is Mary Ellen O'Farrell.




 7               I have lived almost all my life here in




 8  Charleston.  I am a native West Virginia.




 9               This year, I am the President of West




10  Virginia Environment Council, and I consider myself




11  an environmental extremist.




12               I cannot claim to represent the points




13  of view of everyone in the Environmental Council, but




14  I think the ideas that I will present, are certainly




15  understood by the membership of the Environment




16  Council.




17               I think the most silent fact about




18  mountaintop removal mining, as it is practiced in our




19  state,  is that in our state alone -- according to




20  current practices -- over 900 miles of mountain




21  streams and waters have been destroyed.




22               This is morally indefensible.




23               Coal mines do not have the right to




24  squander the future of our children.

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 1               Our children and grandchildren will




 2  depend on these waters for health, for beauty, for




 3  recreation,  and perhaps for life itself.




 4               In the Middle East, people are murdering




 5  each other over water rights.




 6               In the western states, in our country,




 7  people are in court over water rights.




 8               This is only going to get worse.




 9               God has blessed our state richly with




10  abundant waters.




11               What will we say to our children when




12  they ask us  why we allowed this squandering to take




13  place?  We can say, Honey, I'm sorry, but the Coal




14  Association  said that it just had to be this way.




15               Or maybe we could answer,  Yes, it is a




16  shame, but Massey said that it would be so much




17  harder to do it any other way.




18               Mountaintop removal mining, as it is




19  currently practiced in our state, is obscene.  It is




20  a blasphemous sacrilegious offense against this world




21  that God has made.




22               Thank you very much for these five




23  minutes.




24               MR. CHAIRMAN:  Chris Hamilton.

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                                                     17




 1               And then after Mr. Hamilton,




 2  Scott Gollwitzer.




 3               MR. HAMILTON:  Good evening.




 4               I am Chris Hamilton.  Vice President of




 5  the West Virginia Coal Association.




 6               Lifelong resident of West Virginia, and




 7  I currently live in Charleston here.




 8               I speak to you tonight to urge the




 9  adoption and implementation of Alternative 3, which




10  contemplates a mine permitting process, which is




11  based on the idea that all proposed mining permits




12  are considered Nationwide Permit 21.




13               Central to this alternative approach,




14  the overall permitting responsibility, rests with the




15  state's SMRCA agency.  This is the best possible




16  strategy, to maximize efficiencies among government




17  agencies, and within the mine permitting process




18  itself.




19               We maintain that matters involving




20  administrative control, accountability, and




21  consistency, are also optimized through this




22  approach.




23               Furthermore, the alternative benefits,




24  for all parties involved, being government, citizens'

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                                                     18




 1  groups, coal miners, alike, here in West Virginia.




 2               Before proceeding further with my




 3  specific remarks, I would like to first of all




 4  compliment all four Federal agencies, and the State




 5  agency, for a job well done.




 6               In large measure, due to your diligence




 7  and professional approach with this comprehensive




 8  study, we now have a document before us that provides




 9  the needed scientific evidence, and regulatory




10  justification to assure that West Virginia's coal




11  industry, will remain a viable part of the country,




12  and the world's energy mix.




13               The EIS, as drafted, will also assure




14  that thousands of West Virginia coal miners are




15  earning a living here, put their children through




16  school, food on the table, and continue to work and




17  live in our mountain state.




18               Incidently, they also hunt, and fish,




19  and enjoy all of the recreational benefits that we




20  have.




21               We support the draft EIS.  We believe it




22  embraces current regulatory, and compliance




23  programming.




24               It clearly upholds existing extraction

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 1  technologies, and recognizes that they're minimal and




 2  temporary impacts can be adequately addressed.




 3               Finally, it recognizes that you can




 4  develop your energy-rich resources and tourism




 5  industries,  while maintaining a high level of




 6  environmental laws.




 7               Under the third alternative, which we




 8  advocate, the program and agency best qualified and




 9  situated to review and issue mining permits, would




10  finally be empowered to do so.




11               The State's SMRCA authority, has the




12  expertise to train personnel, and most importantly,




13  the practical,  on-the-ground knowledge of mining in




14  West Virginia,  that qualify them as the most logical




15  agency to lead the permitting process.




16               Under Alternative 3, these attributes




17  are finally quantified by Federal agencies, realizing




18  that West Virginians are best suited to make




19  decisions that affect the future environmental state,




20  as well as the state of the local statewide economies




21  here in West Virginia.




22               In fact, the only real difference that




23  we ascertained between Alternative 2, which tends




24  to -- at least it appears for them to say -- be the

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 1  government's preferred outcome — and Alternative 3,




 2  which the coal industry is advocating, is the




 3  consolidation of permitting authority under the




 4  State's SMRCA agency.




 5               All of the environmental process




 6  benefits, such as fill minimization, the development




 7  of reforestation guidelines,  enhanced flooding




 8  evaluation procedures, will continue, if Alternative




 9  3, is implemented.




10               If one considers the technical




11  complexity of this  SMRCA permit application, and




12  regulatory review in conjunction with the findings of




13  the EIS,  implementation of Alternative 3, is clearly




14  the logical conclusion.




15               The SMRCA process in and of itself, is




16  one of the most detailed and complex environmental




17  regulatory reviews  in existence.




18               The State of West Virginia has added




19  details and complex rules to its mine regulatory




20  program,  that clearly exceeds corresponding mining




21  Federal regulations, or any other approved program




22  found in any other  place, or any other jurisdiction.




23               More detailed data collection and




24  analysis is required of the mine applicant of West

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                                                     21




 1  Virginia.




 2               Clearly,  we have the most complex




 3  determination process  that exists anywhere in the




 4  nation.




 5               We have equally demanding requirements




 6  with respect to flood  control, post-mine land use,




 7  valley fill construction,  bond-release applications,




 8  and many other areas and aspects of State law that




 9  are too numerous to mention.




10               The state-issued SMRCA permit,




11  especially as administered in West Virginia,  is so




12  detailed and full of environmental analysis,  that it




13  clearly is the equivalent of an individual Section




14  404 permit.




15               In closing, I would just like to say --




16               AUDIENCE  MEMBER:  Your time is  up.




17               MR. HAMILTON:  Choose the third




18  alternative.




19               Thank you.




20               MR. CHAIRMAN:  Mr. Scott Gollwitzer.




21               The next  speaker will be Larry Emerson.




22               Larry Emerson.




23               MR. GOLLWITZER:  Can you hear me?




24               It is a rhetorical question actually

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                                                     22




 1  because you never listen.




 2               My name is Scott Gollwitzer.




 3               Where I am from is irrelevant.  I am a




 4  citizen of this country, and this is a public




 5  meeting,  and I am going to speak.




 6               Looking at you, it is great to see five




 7  agencies,  four Federal and one State agency.




 8               You are not separate, though, you are




 9  the same.   We have a term for that that is building




10  in the environmental community, it is called the




11  ammendustry.




12               This refers to the inexplicable ties




13  between the Bush Administration and his campaign




14  contributors.




15               I just wanted to thank you, and bring




16  that to your attention.




17               I am not here tonight to critique the




18  EIS.  It is not my function here tonight.  Nor am I




19  here to discuss the various human rights violations




20  and devastating environmental impacts of mountaintop




21  removal.




22               People who are going to speak after me,




23  will share those thoughts with you and I ask you to




24  listen to them.

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                                                     23




 1               Tonight I am here to remind you each on




 2  the panel of what your responsibilities are.




 3               To do this,  let me begin by reminding




 4  you of what your responsibilities are not.




 5               You are not here to do the bidding of




 6  the ammendustries, nor are you West Virginia's




 7  Economic Development Commission.




 8               We heard lots of talk this afternoon




 9  about the economic impacts of your polices;  that is




10  not your function.




11               It is not to dismiss, on my part, the




12  economic problems in West Virginia.  I am not here to




13  do that, I feel for the gentleman who spoke  earlier




14  about EPA putting him out of work several times.




15               I would have to say that because of my




16  employment — and that is as an attorney for an




17  environment group — the EPA is keeping me employed




18  by the same token.




19               I wish they would stop.




20               So back to reminding you of what you are




21  supposed to be doing.




22               You are each charged under very unique




23  environmental laws with protecting human health, and




24  the environment, period.

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                                                     24





 1               That is what you are charged to do.





 2               As you listen to these folks articulate





 3  their stories of devastation and human rights





 4  violations, and injustices,  I ask each of you to





 5  reassess your current role in keeping these





 6  injustices upon these people, and destroying the





 7  environment upon which they depend, and the





 8  environment in which they live.





 9               Please do all that you can tonight, and





10  in the future to end this eco-terrorist act.





11               Thank you.





12               MR. CHAIRMAN:  Larry Emerson.





13               E-M-E-R-S-0-N.





14               MR. EMERSON:  That would be me.





15               MR. CHAIRMAN:  The next speaker will be





16  Bill, I am going to spell it, G-O-R-Z.





17               MR. EMERSON:  Thank you.





18               My name is  Larry Emerson.





19               I live in the Charleston area.





20               I am the Director of Environmental





21  Performance for Arch Coal, Inc., the second largest





22  producer of steam coal in the country.





23               I have worked in the coal mining





24  industry for nearly 25 years, most of that time has

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                                                     25




 1  been working directly on reclamation reforestation




 2  and habitat restoration projects, primarily in the




 3  southern part of the state.




 4               I would like to make four specific




 5  points related to the terrestrial components of the




 6  EIS.




 7               The EIS correctly points out what we, in




 8  the regulated community, have understood for several




 9  years, and that is that the existing SMRCA




10  revegetation rule, were developed primarily to




11  control erosion, and less so for successful tree




12  growth.




13               The emphasis on erosion control is now




14  changing and new methods are being developed to meet




15  the challenge of soil compaction, and composition,




16  competition with nervacious cover, and other issues,




17  that directly influenced successful tree growth.




18               The coal industry is committed to




19  effective and practical methods of improving




20  reforestation success.




21               As evidenced by many privately funded




22  research and demonstration projects currently




23  underway.




24               For example, the National Mine Land

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                                                     26




 1  Reclamation Center in Morgantown, in cooperation with




 2  Cantennary Coal, and Arch Coal, is currently




 3  conducting field demonstrations to develop




 4  cost-effective methods of utilizing various soil




 5  horizons,  and native-tree species, to establish




 6  productive forests on reclaimed sites.




 7               However, the agencies, and the public,




 8  must understand that there are some landowners who




 9  wish to have other land uses for their property after




10  the mining is complete.




11               Landowners wishes must be given some




12  difference.




13               To the extent that landowners desire




14  forest land on the reclaimed property,  the industry




15  stands ready to help develop the rules and




16  techniques, that will achieve that objective.




17               Point two:  One of the studies in the




18  EIS examine tree succession on reclaimed sites, by




19  counting the number of stems within measured sections




20  of reclaimed sites.




21               The results of the study concluded that




22  tree succession was limited to areas immediately




23  adjacent to undisturbed woodlands.  However, there is




24  a significant short-coming in the study design as

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                                                     27




 1  indicated in Appendix E, and I quote:




 2               "The mine area studied was not designed,




 3  engineered,  reclaimed, or revegetated with the




 4  post-mining land use of forestry, commercial or




 5  otherwise."




 6               Therefore, the conclusions drawn from




 7  this study might be tempered with the fact of sites




 8  examined were never intended to be forest land.




 9               So my question is whether this really is




10  an objective study design.




11               Point number three:  In September 1996,




12  the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service concluded formal




13  consultation with OSM, pursuant to Section 7 of the




14  Endangered Species Act, of mountaintop mining




15  operations in the studied area.




16               This programmatic consultation led to




17  the issuance by the Fish and Wildlife Service of a




18  biological opinion and conference report, that found




19  surface coal mining and reclamation operations,




20  inducted in accordance with properly implemented




21  State and Federal regulatory programs under SMRCA,




22  would not likely jeopardize the continued existence




23  of the listed,  or proposed species, or result in the




24  adverse modification of designated, or proposed

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                                                     28




 1  critical habitat.




 2               We understand that the EPA is currently




 3  in the process of writing a biological assessment,




 4  relative to the preferred alternative in the EIS.




 5               The industry encourages the EPA to




 6  develop this biological assessment consistent with




 7  the Service's opinion,  and allow public comment on




 8  this document before implementing it in their




 9  enter-agency coordination efforts.




10               Point four:   Ron Canterbury,  a scientist




11  at the Southern West Virginia Bird Research




12  Institute,  has done significant long-term research on




13  migratory neo-tropical  birds in the studied area,




14  particularly in the southern West Virginia coal




15  fields.




16               In fact, $4  million in experts, have




17  indicated that his research represents the most




18  comprehensive information of this geographic area.




19               Dr. Canterbury's work has shown no




20  worthy increases in some, or more, species, in and




21  around older mine sites.   In part, because of the




22  early successional nature of vegetation.




23               In short,  the panel should take a broad




24  view of the migratory bird issues and consider that

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                                                     29




 1  reclaimed sites play an important role in some




 2  species.




 3               In summary, the industry supports




 4  Alternative 3,  and I thank you.




 5               MR. CHAIRMAN:  First off, I want to




 6  apologize beforehand before I butcher too many




 7  people's  names.  I will do the best I can on them.




 8               Bill Gorz?




 9               MR. GORZ:   Gorz.




10               MR. CHAIRMAN:  Okay, thank you.




11               Then the next speaker will be




12  Nick Carter,  or Carver?




13               MR. GORZ:   Good afternoon.




14               My name is Bill Gorz.




15               I  am from Asheville, North Carolina,




16  western North Carolina.




17               The reason that I am here today so far




18  away from my home, is that this is not a local




19  issue.




20               The fact is,  mountaintop removal is not




21  limited to West Virginia,  and it is spreading all




22  over the  southern appalachians, particularly into




23  Kentucky, and Tennessee.




24               Where it affects people that live in my

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                                                     30




 1  area.




 2               Pollutions from the Tennessee Valley




 3  Authority of East Tennessee Coal Plan,  is killing the




 4  Smokey Mountain National Park.




 5               The American Lung Association has




 6  determined that over 6,000 people a year, died from




 7  pollution-related respiratory disorders in western




 8  North Carolina alone.




 9               I am very sure that sort of specific is




10  not limited to the western North Carolina area.




11               A large portion of those 6,000 deaths




12  can be directly attributed to obsolete coal plants.




13               Recently, the Tennessee Valley Authority




14  announced that because of their new anti-pollution




15  technology, which they had to put in because the EPA




16  sued them, and they were facing large fines, more




17  than any of you here make every year, every day,




18  because of the pollution.




19               They put in new anti-pollution




20  technology, we all thought that was going to be




21  great, but then they decided that they could use




22  cheap high-sulphur coal from the Cumberland Plateau




23  and that wouldn't overcome the pollution limits.




24               So instead of lowering pollution, and

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                                                     31




 1  lowering those 6,000 deaths a year, they are opting




 2  instead to increase their profits.




 3               We have to wonder why Federal agencies




 4  would be interested in their profits.  They are not




 5  in the profit-making industry.




 6               Certainly, the coal industry is all




 7  about profits.




 8               They know about the American Lung




 9  Association's statistics.  They don't care about




10  people, they just care about profits.




11               Again, the reason why I am here, and




12  what this has to do right here and now,  is that if we




13  allow this project to go forward, it will just




14  encourage the industry to expand to other areas.




15               I was rather surprised -- I guess I




16  shouldn't have been surprised — that on the EIS




17  there was no option for no mountaintop removal, which




18  there should be, in my opinion.




19               There has been lots of talk about jobs,




20  with little thought, or no thought given to what the




21  social costs of what those jobs are.




22               Pimps and crack dealers provide jobs




23  too, but we generally oppose those jobs  because of




24  the social costs.

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                                                     32




 1               Let's think about the social costs of




 2  the jobs that are provided.




 3               Thank you.




 4               MR.  CHAIRMAN:   Nick Carter.




 5               The next speaker will be John Snider.




 6               MR.  CARTER:  My name is Nick Carter.




 7               I am president and chief operating




 8  officer of Natural Resource Partners.




 9               I live and work in the Huntington,




10  Tri-State area.   We are a publically mastered limited




11  corporation that owns and manages coal and timber




12  products.




13               I also serve as the president of the




14  National Council of Coal Resource, which is a trade




15  association for companies like mine.




16               The EIS seems  to assume, without




17  detailed analysis, that coal companies that permit




18  and mine coal have the ability to control and utilize




19  the properties after mining is completed.




20               This assumption is incorrect.




21               In only a small percentage of cases do




22  coal companies that mine the minerals own the land




23  that it mines.




24               In nearly all  cases, the coal company

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                                                     33




 1  leases the mineral from a company like ours, or from




 2  a family,  or from heirs to the property.




 3               These leases give the mining company the




 4  right to occupy the land for the purpose of the




 5  lease, which is the extraction of the mine.




 6               Many of these leases expire




 7  automatically when the mineral has been mined.




 8               An additional problem, what does not




 9  seem to have been considered by the EIS,  is that most




10  of the land where the mineral is being mined, is not




11  controlled by only one owner.




12               For example, in many — maybe most




13  cases, the owner of the mineral does not own the




14  surface, may not own the oil and gas, and even if it




15  owned the surface, may not own the timber, or the




16  trees that are growing on the property.




17               Most mines today are not on a single




18  property owner, and the company has leases from




19  various owners.  They may have as many as 30 to 50




20  leases to make up one mining block.




21               Additionally, the mining company must




22  reach agreement under the law, with all of the




23  surface owners above the mineral that they mine.




24  This may be many different --  many more different

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                                                     34




 1  owners.




 2               The actual mineral owners consist of




 3  corporations,  partnerships and individuals who have




 4  amassed their mineral holdings of areas over a long




 5  period of time,  some dating back to the 19th century.




 6               If the type of land-use planning and




 7  post-mining land use, that the EIS recommends is to




 8  be accomplished, then it will require the




 9  participation of the mineral owners, and most




10  importantly,  the surface owners, in addition to the




11  coal company.




12               The problem with the post-mining land




13  use planning that most people want, is that it




14  requires the landowner to be able to project,




15  sometimes two or more decades into the future what




16  the market potential will be for a particular




17  property.




18               Because we do not have a crystal ball,




19  these predictions are inherently risky and difficult.




20               In fact, they are so risky, that one




21  would question the business judgment of someone who




22  spent huge sums of money necessary to develop a piece




23  of property today, for a use many years in the




24  future,  not knowing whether the demand will be there

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                                                     35




 1  for that use.




 2               Coal companies engaged in surface mining




 3  can,  with the consent of the surface owner, do a




 4  variety of things on the surface in the course of




 5  mining.




 6               If a particular parcel is located on a




 7  major highway,  or near a large population center,




 8  then the chances are high that there will be a




 9  significant potential for commercial development.




10               This suggests that the land should be




11  mined with a variance to ALC.




12               In addition, if major infrastructure in




13  the form of electric utilities, substations, power




14  lines, roads, and septic systems are located on the




15  land to support the mining, we should think carefully




16  why this infrastructure should be removed,  as the law




17  requires, in the course of reclamation.




18               On the other hand, if the mine site is




19  remote from commercial centers, as most mines are, it




20  makes more sense to adopt a reclamation plan that




21  minimizes future erosions, reduces the potential for




22  downstream flooding, and creates a diverse habitat




23  for animals and plants.




24               In conclusion, it is unwise, both

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                                                     36




 1  economically and environmentally, to insist on a




 2  one-size-fits-all approach to post-mining land use.




 3               We should observe three principals,




 4  respecting the preferences of the owners of the




 5  surface in selecting post-mining uses,  incorporating




 6  into the permitting process,  a flexibility to modify




 7  post-mining land uses after mining has  commenced, and




 8  relying on the marketplace to guide these decisions




 9  as opposed to a bureaucracy that has never built a




10  development, or created a job.




11               MR. CHAIRMAN:  Sir, your time is up.




12               MR. CARTER:   Thank you.




13               MR. CHAIRMAN:  John Snider.




14               Again, the next speaker will be Kent




15  DesRosher.




16               MR. SNIDER:   Good evening.




17               My name is John R. Snider.




18               For the past two years, I  have been




19  employed as the Vice President of External Affairs,




20  Eastern Operations, Arch Coal.




21               Prior to that, I had worked for four




22  years in the West Virginia Development  Office, the




23  last two serving as Executive Director.




24               I have over 25 years of experience in

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                                                     37




 1  the field of economic development in the state of




 2  West Virginia,  and northern and central appalachian




 3  coal fields.




 4               During my time with the Development




 5  Office,  I assisted with developing the rules for the




 6  West Virginia Coal Field Development Office, and




 7  assisted in funding of several post-mine land-use




 8  projects.




 9               I  am a certified economic developer.




10  Today I  am speaking on behalf of the Coal




11  Association.




12               I  would like to discuss for a few




13  minutes  the Gannett Flemming document "Final Case




14  Studies  Report  on Demographic Changes Related to




15  Mountaintop Mining Operation," long name, but short




16  topic once you  get to it.




17               It offers some interesting conclusions




18  which relate to a lot of economies in transition.




19               It is a report that really could have




20  been taken and  located anyplace in the United States




21  during the same time frame.




22               West Virginia, as a whole, like many




23  other areas of  the country, has been going through




24  transition.  That transition has expired in many ways

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                                                     38




 1  over that time frame, in showing us changing from




 2  heavy manufacturing and mining, to service jobs, a




 3  reduction in job pay, reduction in employment,  a




 4  reduction in population.




 5               Gannett Fleming made several assumptions




 6  based upon census tracks, not necessarily on areas of




 7  employment,  or other items.  Long gone are the days




 8  where the miner worked in the same town,  or census




 9  track, where the mine is.




10               Miners travel, miners are paid very well




11  today.




12               Stop and think:  Do you live and work in




13  the same census track, or the same area?




14               Gannett Flemming's report was basically




15  on 50 and 100 houses in one census track, not a very




16  large community.




17               No matter how you look at it, it is not




18  a good example of what should be talked about.   This




19  study only includes the economic impact of that small




20  area.  Whether it be the mine itself,  or  what happens




21  post mining.




22               Several other issues must be looked at




23  in a different light when you review this report,  and




24  what is happening in today's time frame.

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                                                     39




 1               One:  The population of West Virginia is




 2  declining.   It also is declining in the six




 3  communities,  or six census tracks shown in the




 4  report; no surprise.




 5               Two:  The United States population has




 6  for several years been changing from an




 7  industrial-based economy, to a service-oriented




 8  economy,  no real surprise to anyone that understands




 9  the economy of West Virginia.




10               During the time of this work, we saw




11  many of our high-paying industrial jobs go offshore.




12               We have seen, and continued to see, a




13  coal production shift in central Appalachia,  to the




14  Tygart River Valley.




15               As we discuss coal production today, we




16  are seeing that shift go offshore.  We are receiving




17  more coal every day from foreign sources, very




18  similar to what is happening in oil.




19               Three:  As our country changes from




20  industrial service, we are seeing many of our fine




21  employees being left behind.




22               West Virginia has traditionally been a




23  heavy industrial state, which included at its heart,




24  the production of glass, steel, chemicals, timbering

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                                                     40




 1  and mining.




 2               West Virginia has been impacted




 3  negatively more than any other area in the country,




 4  because of its lack of diversity of its economy.




 5               Many of our industries and mines have




 6  closed over the past few years.




 7               For the average,  West Virginians have




 8  aged these past few years.  We are the oldest group




 9  of people in the United States;  we are the oldest




10  state.




11               Consequently, our school-age population




12  has fallen.




13               Very few areas in West Virginia are




14  gaining population, and the 14 counties in this area




15  are no different.




16               Did Gannett Fleming tell us anything




17  when he wrote this report, or did he take it off the




18  shelf?  I think he took it off the shelf.




19               Overall, Gannett Fleming did a fair job




20  describing what was transpiring in those six




21  counties, as well as across West Virginia, but this




22  is something that could have been done anyplace.




23               What we really need is the capability to




24  transform flat properties into future diversified

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                                                     41




 1  economy for southern West Virginia.




 2               We have to be able to have legitimate




 3  post-mine land-use properties available.  This report




 4  has to allow that, and we believe that Alternative 3




 5  will allow that to happen.




 6               Thank you, very much.




 7               MR. CHAIRMAN:  Kent DesRocher.




 8               The next speaker is Randall Maggard.




 9               MR. DesROSHER:  My name is Kent




10  DesRocher, mine President and General Manager of Arch




11  of West Virginia,  located near Yolyn, West Virginia.




12               I worked in the mining industry for 19




13  years, and then in the southern Appalachian area for




14  approximately 10 years.  I reside in Chapmanville.




15               I would like to make some remarks




16  regarding post-mine land use.




17               Over the past several years, coal




18  companies have begun to help diversify the economy of




19  the 14 coal-field counties.




20               Through the development of post-mine




21  land sites, including such diverse projects as




22  industrial parks,  golf courses, racetracks,




23  recreational areas, commercial fish facilities,




24  housing and public facilities, additional jobs are

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                                                     42




 1  being provided for our neighbors until then.




 2               With the assistance of the West Virginia




 3  Coal Field Development Office, we are now even more




 4  capable to plan for the diversification of the




 5  economy in the coal fields.




 6               All 14 counties have suffered in the




 7  lack of transportation and developable acres for many




 8  years.




 9               The transportation routes are all




10  improving with the upgrading of US-119 and Interstate




11  77,  coupled with Interstate 64 and 79.




12               Through the development of the King Coal




13  Highway,  and the Coal Field Expressway, will further




14  increase development opportunities.




15               The mountainous terrain in 14 counties




16  is also slowed growth in the area.  Industrial,




17  commercial, and housing sites have been at a premium.




18               The development of flats, and gently




19  rolling sites, will assist in the growth and




20  stability of the area.




21               Charles Yule, of West Virginia




22  University, lists six provisions for new land uses,




23  and land-use opportunities.




24               Mr. Yule indicates that most potential

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                                                     43




 1  future mountaintop mining areas will be reclaimed to




 2  various forest covering.




 3               The current rules relating to commercial




 4  forestry,  must be reviewed to allow for a highest




 5  fuel assessment.




 6               The rules must also be reviewed with




 7  respect to compaction, competition, and composition




 8  of soils.




 9               Recent studies would indicate that the




10  best method has not yet been proposed to provide the




11  best opportunities for commercial forrestries.




12               Much discussing has occurred over the




13  past several years, regarding post-mine management




14  for agriculture, such as vineyards, animal




15  production, greenhouse farming and agriculture.




16               Most of the sites where agriculture has




17  been proposed, has not occupied the entire site, and




18  approval of multiple uses will be required.




19               For example, let's say that the primary




20  post-mine land is used as a vineyard, which would




21  occupy 50 percent of the property.




22               But since this is an agricultural




23  project, this is a higher and better use, the




24  remaining portion of the property, must be allowed to

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                                                     44




 1  be developed into support areas,  pasture land,  or




 2  habitat,  which would not compete with the primary




 3  higher use.




 4               The study projects a significant acreage




 5  of land suitable for developing post-mining land




 6  uses,  will result from future mining under all  of the




 7  mining scenarios.




 8               The only way that the 14 counties  can




 9  significantly change the economy of the area, is the




10  development of large sites capable of supporting




11  multiple uses.




12               Mine scenarios that produced many  acres




13  of flat to gently rolling land areas, can provide the




14  opportunity to diversify and improve the economy of




15  southern West Virginia.




16               Mr. Yule is correct when he states that




17  development limitations, such as poor accessibility




18  and infrastructure proximates will continue in  nearly




19  all of these areas.




20               These issues will require the




21  development agencies and the environmental agencies




22  to think out of the box.




23               Such issues of the use of mitigation




24  famous for water and sewer projects, should be

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                                                     45




 1  considered if there is a desire by the involved




 2  parties to redevelop and diversify the area.




 3               Smaller sites,  less than 50 acres, will




 4  do little to diversify the economy of the 14




 5  counties.




 6               The environmental regulatory agencies,




 7  must work closely with planning and development




 8  agencies,  when considering post-mine land use.




 9               Here again, in order to allow for




10  diversity and stabilization of the economy,




11  regulatory agencies must think outside the box.




12               Higher and better use, must be site




13  specific,  based on many items normally associated in




14  the planning documents.




15               If you want 14 counties discussed in the




16  study to diversify their economy, they must be




17  allowed to create land suitable for development.




18               The site must be of sufficient size to




19  make it worthwhile to provide the necessary




20  infrastructure required for development.




21               With the event of a responsible




22  Environmental Impact Statement, and a desire  by the




23  Federal and State regulatory agencies, to provide for




24  affordable energy, while providing sites for  future

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                                                     46





 1  economic transformation in the 14 counties, we can





 2  provide a positive outcome to the citizens of West





 3  Virginia.





 4               In summary, large-scale surface mining





 5  can help support the development of infrastructure —





 6               AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Time.





 7               MR. DesROCHER:  — access, and sites





 8  necessary for future development to allow for





 9  diversification of the economy here in West





10  Virginia.





11               Thank you.





12               MR. CHAIRMAN:  Randall Maggard.





13               Then the next speaker then will be





14  Michael Morrison.





15               I can keep time, thank you.





16               AUDIENCE MEMBER:  How about hearing from





17  some citizens?





18               MR. CHAIRMAN:  Go ahead, sir.





19               MR. MAGGARD:   Hello.  My name is Randall





20  Maggard, from Dunlow, West Virginia.





21               I am the manager of Environmental





22  Compliance for Argus Energy,  a mining company located





23  in southern Wayne County,  West Virginia.





24               We have operated on a reserve base of

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                                                     47




 1  approximately 60,000 acres, or about 100-square miles




 2  since 1987.




 3               We have disturbed only approximately




 4  3,000 acres,  a mere five percent of our complex.  But




 5  since that time,  we have mined over a billion dollars




 6  worth of coal, and provided good-paying jobs for over




 7  250 miners and contractors.




 8               Now our jobs are at risk.




 9               The permitting quagmire created by




10  frivolous lawsuits, and court judgments have created




11  indefinite delays, and such unpredictability to




12  sustain a viable mining operation.




13               We cannot get permits  issued.




14               When the EIS was first considered, I




15  think the regulatory agencies first thought it would




16  be simple.  The streams below valley fills and our




17  mining operations would totally be  void of aquatic




18  life, but that wasn't the case.




19               In a nutshell, the most significant




20  findings in the EIS were that there is  less mayflies,




21  and a detectible amount of selenium downstream of a




22  mining operation.




23               They blame this on mining, but these




24  same effects  have been found downstream time and time

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                                                     48




 1  again,  below any man-made development,  whether it be




 2  road construction,  housing,  commercial  areas,  and in




 3  particular,  cities  and urban areas.




 4               Just a moment to put selenium issue in




 5  perspective, I have in my pocket here,  a bottle of




 6  selenium that I purchased at Rite Aid drugstore that




 7  is recommended as a nutritional supplement.




 8               The detectible amount of selenium in




 9  water is .001 parts per million.  Each  of these




10  tablets contain .200 parts per million  of selenium,




11  over 200 times the  detectible limit.   The limits that




12  are discussed in the EIS.




13               The average value of selenium detected




14  would require a person to drink about five gallons of




15  water directly below a valley fill to get the  same




16  concentration found in this single tablet that is




17  recommended for nutritional value.




18               I am confused.




19               But in closing, I would like to note




20  something that is not said in the EIS.   The air in




21  West Virginia is cleaner than it has ever been in the




22  last 50 years.  The water is cleaner than it has been




23  in the last 50 years, and yes, we even  have more




24  forested acres than we did 50 years  ago.

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                                                     49




 1               So, please, let us mine coal and adopt




 2  Alternative Number 3.




 3               MR. CHAIRMAN:   Mr. Morrison, and then




 4  the next speaker will  be Larry Emerson.




 5               MR. MORRISON:   My name is




 6  Michael A.  Morrison.




 7               I am from Barboursville, West Virginia.




 8               I have been a native of West Virginia




 9  all my life.  I love this state.  And I have lived




10  here and care about my environment.




11               What I am seeing is devastation.




12               I am really sick of it.  It turns my




13  stomach, but I am going to offer solution here.  It




14  is called tourism.  If you all know what that means.




15               If our streams were cleaned up, we can




16  have canoe rentals, canoeing, hiking, mountain




17  biking, we have the Appalachian Trails right now,




18  which is going to draw and invite tourism.  And that




19  is a good example.




20               We can do more here, if our streams were




21  cleaned up.  We have got nice streams in this state.




22  We are a unique state  with streams.




23               I am telling you, you all just don't




24  care.  You all don't care.

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                                                     50




 1               You care as much about it as George




 2  Bush, that King George, that Son of a Bush.




 3               Thank you.




 4               MR. CHAIRMAN:  Our next speaker will be




 5  Julia Bonds,  Julia Bonds?




 6               Then the speaker after that will be




 7  Lawrence, B-E-C-K-E-R-L-E, maybe?




 8               MR. GIBSON:  What happened to Larry




 9  Gibson,  Buddy?




10               AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Yeah, I thought Larry




11  was next.




12               MR. GIBSON:  Yeah, what happened to




13  him?




14               MR. CHAIRMAN:  I am going through the




15  cards in order by the numbers that were given to me.




16               MR. GIBSON:  What?




17               MR. CHAIRMAN:  I will be going through




18  the cards, as I said earlier, in order as the numbers




19  that were given to me.  They are numbered and given




20  to me as those people signed in.  That was the




21  numbers  we are going through.




22               MR. GIBSON:  I was the first one that




23  signed in.




24               MR. CHAIRMAN:  I will check on it for

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                                                     51




 1  you.




 2               MS. BONDS:  My name is Julia Bonds.  I




 3  live in the Coal River Valley in southern West




 4  Virginia.




 5               My family and I have been here many,




 6  many,  years, and many, many, generations.




 7               I am the sister, daughter,




 8  granddaughter, and great granddaughter of coal




 9  miners.




10               My home is in the heart of your study




11  area,  and in the belly of the beast.




12               The beast, is the greedy, irresponsible




13  coal barrens, and for us, regulatory agencies and




14  politicians, that serve as the meals of this beast.




15               I consider the draft EIS, the blueprint




16  for continued assault upon the people of Appalachia.




17  A declaration of war upon children, their children,




18  and God's creation.




19               Ban mountaintop removal now.




20               This EIS encourages the coal industry to




21  continue to use Appalachia, and her children, as a




22  national sacrifice zone.




23               This EIS did not study the cumulative




24  effects of communities in the coal fields' health and

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                                                     52




 1  socio-economic impacts of post, present, and future




 2  valley-fill mining.




 3               How did you study environmental justice




 4  impacts?




 5               The truth is,  you didn't.




 6               You merely dismissed the cultural




 7  communities, the people, and the property being




 8  destroyed by this mining method.




 9               You just dismissed it.




10               I demand a revised Environmental Impact




11  Statement, that includes cumulative impacts;




12  cultural, social, emotional, spiritual,  and health




13  problems of the communities of people affected by




14  mountaintop removal.




15               A total cultural study already exists.




16  This study by our Dr. Mary Hufford is available at




17  the Library of Congress.




18               Dr. Hufford, Doctor of Nephography, is




19  doing research at the University of Pennsylvania.




20  Our mountain culture has been here long before white




21  settlers came, and long before commercial coal mining




22  began.   And our culture will be here long after the




23  coal is gone.




24               We believe that many people in

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                                                     53




 1  mountaintop removal effect people who suffer from




 2  Posttraumatic Stress Disorder,  from blasting,  and




 3  flooding,  and the ill effects of mountaintop mining.




 4               How dare you dismiss the suffering of




 5  low income and the minority people of Appalachia.




 6               How dare you dismiss and defy the




 7  Executive Order dealing with the environmental




 8  injustices on the low income and minority people.




 9               How dare you do that.




10               Your own study says that this area is




11  well above the average in poverty, and unemployment.




12               Where is the study on the socio-economic




13  problems of this area?




14               Why are the people in the coal-rich




15  counties the poorest people?




16               What are the actual costs to the




17  communities and the people that suffer the effects of




18  mountaintop removal?




19               This mining method affects the very




20  poor,  and the powerless, and the oppressed people of




21  central Appalachia.




22               Economic development on these artifical




23  sites  is nonexistent.




24               Only 94 percent of these destroyed

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                                                     54




 1  mountaintops are ever given any economic development




 2  for the affected — the affected — communities.




 3               Show me economic development, in Boomer




 4  Hollow, in Bob White, in Montcoal,  in Prince.  Show




 5  me, show me something.




 6               In the last six months,  two schools  in




 7  the Coal River Valley,  both surrounded by money




 8  Massey mining permit, was closed,  sending our




 9  children on very, very, long bus rides,  and one of




10  those schools is at Montcoal.




11               Where is the money, and where is the




12  support of the coal industry then?




13               The Raleigh County, Board of Education




14  said it does not receive one red cent that coal has




15  for education.  But coal says it gives.




16               So who is  lying?  I would like to see a




17  report on that.




18               The scientific evidence of this study




19  shows that mountaintop  removal is  environmentally




20  insane, but the recommendations by the administration




21  is to make it easier for greedy coal companies to




22  destroy everything.




23               Your report makes an  airtight case




24  against your conclusions.

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                                                     55




 1               Your report, and your conclusion,




 2  strongly contradict.




 3               Did a complete idiot write the




 4  conclusion?




 5               As a fellow Christian, I challenge




 6  President Bush, to come to the coal-field hollows of




 7  central Appalachia,  and talk with the blasted, and




 8  flooded, and the poor, and the oppressed people




 9  impacted by mountaintop removal.




10               I ask President Bush to investigate his




11  agencies.




12               No true Christian would allow these evil




13  abuses to continue.




14               I am sure once the President discovers




15  these crimes against the citizens of Appalachia, he




16  would stop mountaintop removal.




17               No true God-fearing man would allow




18  these crimes to continue.




19               MR. BECKERLE:  I am Lawrence Beckerle.




20               MR. CHAIRMAN:  After Mr. Beckerle, the




21  next speaker will be Nanette Nelson.




22               MR. BECKERLE:  Good evening.  My name is




23  Lawrence Beckerle, I live in Nicholas County.




24               I have a number of diverse interests and

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                                                     56




 1  I am involved with a number of different




 2  organizations, which I will not necessarily get into




 3  tonight.




 4               I would mention that my first




 5  surface-mine reclamation project that I got involved




 6  in was in 1972, and I have been looking at issues




 7  involved with surface-mining reclamation over a




 8  number of years, and a number of capacities, before




 9  SMRCA was invented and thought of, and I have worked




10  in a number of different states.




11               Two concerns I have:  One, is that when




12  you make your decision that you realize that there




13  are a number of variables that are upon what can




14  happen with a valley fill, or mountaintop mining.




15               That you consider all those variables,




16  which I will try to include in my written comments,




17  because sometimes we confuse issues, then it becomes




18  conclusions when we are muddling, and at war with --




19  involving so many variables.




20               The other thing that I have experience




21  in seeing is that the type of regulations that we




22  pass, and sometimes they have unintended




23  consequences, and can have a large part to do with




24  what we end up with.

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                                                     57




 1               To give you a couple of examples, I can




 2  well remember when OSM had interim regulations




 3  prohibiting any depressions larger than a square




 4  meter in size.




 5               It was there for a few years, then it




 6  disappeared, thank goodness.   But it was there for a




 7  time period.




 8               West Virginia has a drainage handbook




 9  that is designed for how water should be controlled




10  off of the surface mines, and so on.




11               That originated for urban construction,




12  highway construction,  and so on.  So the primary




13  emphasis of that drainage handbook is how to control




14  water to take it off the site.




15               In fact,  there is a rule in this




16  drainage handbook yet to this day, that prohibits any




17  depressions be any deeper than two-tenths of a foot.




18  That is a very small distance, two-tenths of a foot.




19  So you deliberately create a site that is dry.  In an




20  urban situation, it makes sense because you don't




21  want to have the mosquitos.




22               In a surface mine, you want the




23  mosquitos as the base for the food source.




24               There was also some question about what

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                                                     58




 1  is an impoundment.




 2               So with every little structure being




 3  considered an impoundment, even sediment ditches are




 4  removed after mining.   And so on the operational




 5  side, the coal operators,  when you try to talk to




 6  them about building this type of structure, or that




 7  type of structure,  say why build it, if we are going




 8  to have to destroy it to get our bond released?




 9               So we need to look at those kinds of




10  issues.  As a result of those types of things, there




11  are burn-up pools,  and ephemeral pools are very rare




12  on surface mine areas.




13               Wet metals are rare, wet forests are




14  rare, absorption terraces  are basically unheard of in




15  this state, a zero run-off bench and berm systems are




16  unheard of.




17               To illustrate my point, I know of no




18  crayfish farms in any surface mine in West Virginia.




19               Now that might seem strange to some




20  people that I would even mention that.  But If




21  someone wanted to put a crayfish farm on, the only




22  thing that the DEP and the regulatory people would




23  look at is what the economics are behind crayfish.




24  They would not consider that crayfish pools would

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                                                     59




 1  help reduce flooding, would help provide a food




 2  source for wildlife, and so on.




 3               So, there needs to be other things




 4  considered into these projects when you look at




 5  crayfish farming,  and look at the other benefits that




 6  can result from those.




 7               There has been an overemphasis on




 8  perennial grasses, including nonnutritive, and other




 9  grasses that are not productive for wildlife.




10               And one of those disadvantages of that




11  is that by contrast, if they would emphasize a




12  nitrogen-fixing plan, it would increase the earthworm




13  population, which would help make the soil more




14  productive, and help increase infiltration, help grow




15  better trees and so on.




16               By the overemphasis on nonnutritive-type




17  grasses, instead of nitrogen-fixing plants.




18               We have deliberately made these lands




19  nonproductive,  and that is very unfortunate.  We need




20  to change that.




21               My minutes are almost up.  Good grief.




22               But to give an example, if we had —




23  another thing that would help us to decide these




24  issues --

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                                                     60





 1               AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Time.





 2               MR. BECKERLE:  — would be grade





 3  limitations, it would have described those, and we





 4  could make better decisions.





 5               Thank you.





 6               MR. CHAIRMAN:  Our next speaker is





 7  Nanette Nelson.





 8               After that, we will be taking a





 9  five-minute break.





10               MS. NELSON:  My name is Nanette Nelson,





11  and I live on Big Coal River in Boone County.





12               When I sat down last night and thought





13  about this meeting, I became both sad,  and angry.





14               The very subject of MTR, causes such





15  extreme emotions for true coal-field residents.





16               Those of us who have lived in our





17  communities for many generations, are at one with the





18  land.





19               My family has been in Boone County since





20  the 1700's.





21               Not many people can understand this





22  concept; you just have to know our hearts.





23               I want to impress on you the true cost





24  of MTR.

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                                                     61




 1               We hear that the DEP,  EPA,  and other




 2  agencies,  plus the industry,  want to rely on




 3  so-called scientific data.




 4               But the data always seems to suit their




 5  wants and their needs.   Certainly not the coal-field




 6  residents.




 7               How do you gather scientific data on




 8  people; their feelings, their hopes, their dreams?




 9  You cannot.




10               This EIS statement is  a sham, and it is




11  a disgrace to even present it to the people of this




12  state.




13               You want to talk about economic




14  development; where is it?




15               According to the DEP website, there are




16  363 active mining permits in Boone  County.




17               They say that MTR sites are made into




18  economic development sites; where are they?




19               There are 79 active MTR sites now,  and




20  I doubt that there will ever be any kind of economic




21  development on Big Coal River.




22               Our county has terrible conditions




23  around the MTR site.  Property values have gone  down.




24  People could never get enough out of their homes to

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                                                     62




 1  buy an equivalent home elsewhere.




 2               People have worked all of their lives to




 3  have a home,  only to see its value go to almost




 4  nothing.




 5               Whitesville and Madison are only ghosts




 6  of what they once were.   Everywhere there is MTR,




 7  community death soon follows.




 8               People have left because they can't




 9  stand living in the conditions caused by MTR.




10               Our schools are closing.  We have lost




11  many schools in our county in the past few years;




12  need I say more?




13               They say MTR is wonderful for wildlife.




14  If it is  so wonderful for wildlife, why are they




15  coming down into our yards looking for food?  They




16  never did that before.




17               You never hear a whippoorwill anymore.




18               Big Coal River used to be full of




19  freshwater muscles; they were huge.  They were




20  everywhere in the river.  They are all gone now.




21               You have poisoned, and polluted, and




22  blasted,  and dusted the environment to death.




23               Not to mention the unprecedented




24  flooding  that is occurring somewhere every time we

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                                                     63




 1  have a rain event.




 2               This used to be rare.  Now it is




 3  becoming common place.  And who is paying?




 4               As usual, FEMA is called in and the




 5  Federal tax dollars are used to try to help these




 6  families recover, but even this is a sham.




 7               FEMA doesn't even come close to paying




 8  enough to putting these poor people on the road to




 9  recovery.




10               Some of these families will never have




11  normal lives again.




12               And again, the coal and the timber




13  companies get off scot-free.




14               Where is the justice in this?




15               When is this ever going to end?




16               When you have destroyed the lives of




17  everyone, or have run the rest us off so that you can




18  run free of rein to do whatever you want, with no one




19  to sue.




20               I truly believe that this is your goal.




21               You wish that we would all just go




22  away.   But Bill Rainey, we are not going anywhere, so




23  don't get your hopes up.




24               You say that MTR is a safer mining

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                                                     64




 1  method; for whom?




 2               I imagine that it is for the person




 3  sitting in the big air-conditioned pieces of




 4  equipment.  But what about the people who have to




 5  live around these sites?




 6               Remember, these folks didn' t move in on




 7  you, you moved in on top of them.




 8               Is MTR safer for these residents?




 9  I think not.




10               I want you to know something, I am not




11  against coal mining.  I am against irresponsible




12  mining methods.




13               My husband worked underground for many,




14  many,  years.  The true miners knew the dangers and so




15  did their families.  They accepted that danger.




16  These men exposed themselves to dangers every day.




17  They exposed themselves, no one else.




18               They are true, brave men.




19               The people who work the MTR sites, may




20  have a safer job for themselves; however, they are




21  putting innocent people in harm's way.




22               The little children, the elderly, common




23  people, and even babies yet unborn, are in danger




24  around these sites.  And you call this a safer mining

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                                                     65




 1  method?  I think not.




 2               When you put people in harm's way that




 3  are not even connected to the mining industry, to




 4  save your own behind,  I call that cowardly.




 5               Thank you.




 6               MR. CHAIRMAN:  We are going to take a




 7  five-minute break.  The two speakers after the break




 8  will be Larry Maynard and Vivian Stockman.




 9               One thing when you return from the




10  break,  if the speaker is already speaking, let's be




11  courteous and be really quiet when you come in and




12  sit down.




13               In about five minutes, we will be




14  starting again.




15               Thank you.




16               (Break.)




17               MR. CHAIRMAN:  Let's get started.




18               As I said before, our first speaker will




19  be Larry Maynard.




20               Our second speaker will be




21  Vivian Stockman.




22               As we are all sitting down, let's




23  remember to be real quiet for them.




24               Thank you.

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                                                     66




 1               MR. MAYNARD:  Thank you.




 2               My name is Larry Maynard.  I am from




 3  Delbarton, West Virginia, and the founder of DECAF,




 4  Delbarton Environmental Community Awareness




 5  Foundation.




 6               I would like to talk a little bit today




 7  about jobs.  Now having jobs, does not justify the




 8  outright destruction caused by mountaintop removal




 9  mining.




10               If MTR is banned, then the companies




11  will have to find alternative and less destructive




12  ways to extract their coal; right?




13               Jobs will be there, and plentiful,




14  possibly more jobs than before.




15               If this form of mining continues, then




16  our environment, and this area, will continue to




17  suffer while the CEO's become rich and the West




18  Virginians, they just stay poor.




19               West Virginia is becoming the coal




20  industry's toxic waste dump.  Coal waste impoundments




21  that hold slurry, should really be classified as




22  such.




23               Selenium compounds, arsonic, and other




24  hazardous chemicals, make up this sludge.

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                                                     67




 1               There are good forms of chemicals, and




 2  bad forms of chemicals.  Like selenium, for instance,




 3  and chromium compounds.  Like some forms of chromium,




 4  body builders use it, while others cause cancer.




 5               And this stuff gets in our watersheds.




 6               Some of the things that I want to talk




 7  about — some of the primary effects from mountaintop




 8  removal is destruction of vegetation, our natural




 9  water streams,  the animal habitats, the beauty of our




10  environment that surrounds us all.  And the future of




11  timber, or any wood-producing jobs, just to mention a




12  few.




13               Also, water-well depletion, homes being




14  flooded throughout the valleys, dust that comes from




15  the large coal trucks that barrel down our roads, the




16  increased weight limits to destroy our roads.   And




17  who picks up the tab for that, the coal industry, or




18  the citizens?




19               They cannot constitute their actions




20  toward our environment just by making level land, and




21  a few jobs, even if they do pay their fair share of




22  taxes.




23               Thank you.




24               MR. CHAIRMAN:  Vivian Stockman.

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                                                     68




 1               Then the next person will be Larry




 2  Gibson.




 3               MS. STOCKMAN:  I just want to triple




 4  check that it is okay that I talk, because I heard




 5  there was grumbling because I spoke already this




 6  morning,  or this afternoon?




 7               MR. CHAIRMAN:  There is nothing in the




 8  rules that says you couldn't speak at the different




 9  sessions, so go ahead.




10               MS. STOCKMAN:  All right.




11               My name is Vivian Stockman.  I am with




12  the Ohio Valley Environmental Coalition.  The




13  original intent of the environmental impact




14  statement, as published in the Federal register,




15  was:




16               "... to consider developing agency




17  policies, guidance, and coordinated agency




18  decision-making processes to minimize, to the maximum




19  extent practicable, the adverse environmental effects




20  to waters of the United States, and to fish and




21  wildlife resources, affected by mountaintop mining




22  operations, and to environmental resources that could




23  be affected by the size and locations of excess spoil




24  disposal sites in valley fills."

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                                                     69




 1               The draft EIS — the recommendations in




 2  that draft, fail, they utterly fail, to fulfill the




 3  original intent of the EIS.




 4               And I wonder if that is because of the




 5  people like J. Steven Guiles, and Michael Castle, who




 6  possibly were allowed to even write these




 7  recommendations.




 8               This afternoon, I heard people say that




 9  they don't believe the MTR is involved in the




10  flooding in southern West Virginia.




11               I guess they haven't read the DEP, and




12  OSM studies that say otherwise.  I guess they don't




13  believe the people who live in the flooded areas,




14  downstream from mountaintop removal.  I guess, they




15  just don't believe what those folks are saying.




16               No,  MTR is not responsible for all of




17  the flooding.  But the studies say, and reality




18  shows, that it does indeed make flooding much worse.




19               We have heard a lot of comments about




20  how great mountaintop removal is for the state




21  because it provides flat land for economic




22  development.




23               How can that possibly be true?  Right




24  now, we have probably over 300,000 acres of blown-up,

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                                                     70




 1  treeless, soilless, rubble-strewn former




 2  mountaintops,  just waiting for the long touted




 3  economic development.




 4               These wastelands have some ponds with




 5  stagnant water,  not to mention the coal-waste flood




 6  lakes,  but a good supply of fresh water, one




 7  essential for economic development just isn't




 8  available, because the blasting has reeked havoc on




 9  the ground water, and of course, the streams are




10  buried.




11               Remember, too, that most of these




12  flatlands that the industry touts are hundreds of




13  feet above any existing infrastructure, are municipal




14  roads and former DEP head, Michael Callahan admitted




15  that less than two percent of the sites that have




16  already been obliterated by mountaintop removal, have




17  had any sort of economic development.




18               Yes, there are some projects on some




19  mountaintop removal sites, but why in heaven's name




20  do we need anymore, if we already have over 300,000




21  acres sitting around,  flat acres.




22               We do have a couple of golf courses, a




23  high school, whose gym sank,  and they had to get the




24  Jaws of Life out to open the doors.  Some built that

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                                                     71




 1  have been having stability problems, too.




 2               For instance, in Kentucky, there is what




 3  they are calling now a "sink-sink".  It is a prison




 4  that over $40 million of taxpayer money has gone into




 5  stabilizing the site, and the towers are leaning.




 6               It is turning out to be the most




 7  expensive jail ever built in the United States.  And




 8  that is the showcase of mountaintop economic




 9  development site.




10               At last year's Coal Summit in this very




11  building, a hydrogeologist noted that in the Coal




12  River basin alone, there are about 95,000 acres of




13  obliterated mountaintops and buried valleys.




14               That is enough flat land to provide all




15  of the following:   Five, 5,000-acre recreational




16  parks; Ten, 1,000-acre prison sites — since that is




17  going to be our great economic development — five,




18  500-acre shopping malls -- I don't know where all the




19  shoppers will come from.  100, 100-acre trailer




20  parks — and I guess that will relocate all the MTR




21  flood victims.  There would still be 400, 50-acre




22  school sites — not that there are any students left.




23               So that still leaves about 5,000 acres,




24  which we could make the monument park for the West

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                                                     72




 1  Virginia Coal Association, so they can show people




 2  how great mountaintop removal is for West Virginia,




 3  one of the poorest states in the nation.




 4               The EIS needs to address the fact that




 5  West Virginia already has enough barren,  waterless,




 6  soilless, flat land.




 7               We got enough.




 8               Thanks.




 9               MR. CHAIRMAN:  Larry Gibson.  Then the




10  next speaker will be Julian Martin.




11               MR. GIBSON:  Here I see — on this




12  stage, I see OSM, FWS,  WVDEP, the EPA, COA; we don't




13  have no CFO.  That is what is called CFC, actually,




14  for -- Concern for Citizens.




15               We have these here -- a lustrous group




16  up here of people who are supposed to be representing




17  the State of West Virginia, and the group of people




18  here -- I don't see them doing anything that is worth




19  their while here.




20               Also, we was talking about --




21  I heard — while we was sitting there talking —




22  I had other things to say, but I want to talk about




23  this one.




24               We have heard about the decrease in the

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                                                     73




 1  population of the coal fields, the number of people




 2  or citizens in the coal fields.




 3               The only thing that I don't understand




 4  is,  if coal is so good, how come we're losing our




 5  citizens in the coal fields? How come people are




 6  leaving?




 7               Also, how come we have such low income?




 8  How come we have such low education in the southern




 9  coal fields?  How come we don't have any




10  infrastructure?  How come we don't have city services




11  for everybody in Logan?  Things like that, we don't




12  have it.




13               Another thing I want you all to




14  understand about mountaintop removal, it is not only




15  destroying our mountains, it is interfering with our




16  mountain way of life.




17               Now I mean,  we have, around my area, in




18  our mining area, or the mining around my mountain, we




19  have mountaintop at about 2,000 feet.  My land stands




20  about 6- or 700 feet above the sites.




21               But we have — because of the




22  mountaintop removals, and the underground mining, we




23  have mine cracks that just happen to be up there the




24  other day, too.  And this is several times now

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                                                     74




 1  they've filled these mountain cracks up.




 2               But I called the Surgeon General's




 3  office the other day, and I left her a message, We




 4  have people in harm's way over here in Clearfork.




 5  And I called her, and I made a reference to her to




 6  find a way to put these people out of harm's way, so




 7  that she could ensure their safety, to make sure




 8  their life won't be in danger.




 9               We have nobody here on this panel just




10  concerned about the citizens.  If you did, you would




11  be going over renting these homes over there in




12  Clearfork that' s empty, and living down below those




13  mountains, where the floods did not happen.




14               Of course, it is obvious that floods do




15  not happen in the coal fields.




16               Another thing that I mentioned about the




17  jobs here; Gosh, now I've got to help Chris Hamilton




18  out here, because the jobs, here in the coal fields,




19  I think we have lost about 150,000 miners in




20  West Virginia.  And I heard Chris up here say, We are




21  providing jobs for the people in the coal fields.




22               Well, I think if we keep providing jobs




23  at that rate, we won't have to worry about the coal




24  company, they will put themselves out of business.

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                                                     75




 1               And another thing, if Chris Hamilton




 2  endorses this thing that you all put together, it




 3  can't be good for the citizens.




 4               It can't be good for the citizens.




 5               I am going to the office and I am voting




 6  against this.  Because if Chris is for it, I got to




 7  be against it.




 8               MR. MARTIN:  My name is Julian Martin.




 9               MR. CHAIRMAN:  Just a minute, sir.  I'm




10  sorry.




11               After Mr. Martin, Janet Fout.




12               Okay, Mr. Martin.




13               MR. MARTIN:  My name is Julian Martin.




14  I am the 8th generation that has lived on Coal




15  River.  We live in Charleston now.




16               My people came here around 1800.  We got




17  here before coal did.




18               I would like to see the people that want




19  to destroy our mountains, are moving in on our




20  homeplace.




21               I would like to lodge a complaint with




22  this panel:  I was the second person to sign in




23  tonight.  Larry Gibson was the first.  He was the




24  first person to walk through that door; I was the

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                                                     76




 1  second.




 2               Chris Hamilton was not in that room out




 3  there.   He walked in here about two or three minutes




 4  before the thing started and he spoke second.




 5               Now that shows you how low the coal




 6  industry will stoop.  If they will cheat on stuff




 7  like that, for God's sake.   Now that is really tacky;




 8  isn't it?  I mean, that is  character, isn't it?  That




 9  is who you are dealing with.  These are the kinds of




10  people that you are dealing with.




11               They would steal from their little




12  sisters.




13               They would push their mother down the




14  stairs in a wheelchair.




15               I want to complain about the fact that




16  your economic study was not a broad — did not cover




17  enough years.   I want you to go back and do this




18  again.   I bet you love to hear that, don't you?




19               You will get some information from me




20  about Bill Mackey, who used to be the head of the




21  Board Service, in West Virginia.  And he resigned in




22  protest  against mountaintop removal.




23               He said it was akin to a disease like




24  AIDS.  That is what he said.

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                                                     77




 1               This is not a tree-hugging radical,




 2  out-of-state environmentalist, okay?  This is a man




 3  who believed in clear-cutting, for God's sake.




 4               He says that mountaintop removal is akin




 5  to a disease like AIDS.  Why was he not interviewed




 6  for this?  Why was the information that he has not




 7  included in this study?




 8               This man was a was a prominent figure in




 9  this state, and in this business.  He knows what he




10  is talking about.  He said that 300,000 acres had




11  been destroyed already.  And he said that for every




12  acre,  you can get 200-board feet of timber that is




13  new growth.  That is the new growth per acre.




14               I am sure it is an average, okay?




15               Multiply those two numbers together,




16  300,000 times 200, comes out to 60-million-board




17  feet.   That was in 1997, this estimate he made.




18               That 60-million-board feet of timber




19  could have been cut on what has already been




20  destroyed every year, forever.




21               Not just one, every year.  That is just




22  the new growth.  You could have cut that and not miss




23  it.




24               Now, if this whole mess doubles, as this

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                                                     78




 1  report claims, it's going to — if mountaintop




 2  removal doubles — then by the year 2013, I think it




 3  was, in 10 years, or something, it is going to be




 4  around 200-billion-board feet of timber lost every




 5  year, forever.




 6               Every year.  Not one, but every damn




 7  year, and that is if they quit mining right then.




 8               They are destroying the hardwood timber




 9  in West Virginia.  Fall is going to disappear.  All




10  the trees are going to be the same.  They are going




11  to go with the cheap trees, where they can grow real




12  fast, and don't change colors.  They don't want to




13  mess with that.  We're all going to look like Oregon,




14  you know, you're going to have green and yellow, that




15  is it.




16               So I beg you, I plead with you — I know




17  I am pissing in the ocean — I beg and plead with you




18  to reconsider the economic study.




19               Do a long-term economic study.  Not just




20  about the coal industry, about everything this is




21  costing us.




22               For God's sakes, they are destroying the




23  future use of these places.




24               These are wastelands.  Get a grip.

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                                                     79




 1  These are horrible looking places; these are not




 2  close calls.




 3               This is the worst environmental crisis




 4  in the whole world.




 5               There is not another mountain range in




 6  the United States that has had 300,000 acres




 7  destroyed.  Nowhere.  It is an outrage.




 8               And I wish I had another hour.




 9               I want you to offer other options.




10  Enforce the law as it is.  If you did that, it would




11  stop them in their tracks.




12               Do away with those damn national




13  permits  that say that a valley fill has a minimal




14  environmental damage.




15               Good God, don't let them dump anything




16  in any stream.  It is craziness.




17               There are 147 years of underground coal,




18  according to this report.  Let's do it underground,




19  with the pillars left behind so that the top doesn't




20  cave-in, too.




21               Now, I talked today to a DEP person,  and




22  he said that it looks like they did all that research




23  and then just ignored the damn thing in their




24  recommendations.

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                                                     80




 1               I know that there are people in your




 2  departments.   We know them.   We know who they are




 3  there.   You know,  there are moles.  Deep Throat isn't




 4  anything.   You can't trust anybody over there.




 5               They are on our side.




 6               They tell us that this is a bunch of




 7  bullshit.




 8               Thank you.




 9               MR. CHAIRMAN:  Janet Fout.




10               James — I believe it is Maynard.




11               I am Janet Fout.  I work for the Ohio




12  Valley Environmental Coalition.




13               I am a life-long resident of West




14  Virginia.   My daughter is seventh generation.




15               I just wanted to remind folks here on




16  the panel  a little bit about the National Environment




17  Policy Act of 1969.




18               The purpose of the Act basically says to




19  encourage, productive and enjoyable harmony between




20  man and his environment.  Promote efforts which will




21  prevent or eliminate damage to the environment and




22  biosphere, and stimulate the health and welfare of




23  man.




24               This is the foundation for this EIS

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                                                     81




 1  process,  and there are three parts of this that I




 2  think are very much being neglected by the EIS.




 3               It says that you should ensure for all




 4  Americans safe, helpful,  productive and aesthetically




 5  and culturally pleasing surroundings.




 6               I don't think that there is anyone who




 7  has ever been to a mountaintop removal site, who




 8  would say that mountaintop removal, as it is




 9  practiced in West Virginia,  does that.




10               That you should attain the widest range




11  of beneficial uses of the environment without




12  degradation, risk to health, or safety, or other




13  undesirable, or unintended consequences.




14               What I read of the EIS, says that there




15  are many consequences, and they are very negative




16  consequences to water quality, to habitat for




17  wildlife, for communities, for people who live near




18  blasting.




19               There are numerous, numerous, impacts.




20               That you are to preserve important




21  historic, cultural, and natural aspects of our




22  national heritage, and maintain wherever possible,  an




23  environment which supports diversity and variety of




24  individual choice.

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                                                     82




 1               There is very little in the EIS, as it




 2  is currently stated,  that covers the cultural, or




 3  historic losses.




 4               I would suggest to you that since your




 5  EIS contains — at least two symposiums — put




 6  together by Federal agencies, and the coal industry,




 7  that you also include the proceedings from the




 8  Citizens Coal Summit that was in 2002,  held here in




 9  Charleston.




10               You will learn a lot about the cultural




11  impacts, and the impacts on people's lives.




12               Also, just some something — the reason




13  why I think mountains need to be preserved in West




14  Virginia.




15               These are the words of Wendell Berry:




16               "The peace of wild things.




17               When despair for the world grows in me




18               and I wake in the night at the least




19               sound, in fear of what my life and my




20               children's lives may be,




21               I go and lie down where the wood drake




22               rests in his beauty on the water,




23               and the great heron feeds.




24               I come into the peace of wild things

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                                                     83




 1               who do not tax their lives with




 2               forethought of grief.




 3               I come into the presence of still water




 4               And I feel above me the day-blind stars




 5               waiting with their light.




 6               For a time I rest




 7               in the grace of the world,




 8               and am free."




 9               There is very little in your Draft EIS




10  that talks about those kinds of impacts.  When all of




11  our mountains are gone, when all of our streams are




12  filled,  where will we restore our souls?




13               And also, as long as I've got time,  I am




14  going to mention a few other things.




15               I think there is not nearly enough in




16  the draft EIS to address the concerns about




17  coal-slurry impoundments.  I actually have three




18  photographs that I will leave with you.




19               These are so close to many communities




20  and in these particular photographs show how close




21  they are.




22               Here is a little known economic fact of




23  coal.  In 2002, for every $100 a miner which makes




24  $50,000  a year — a CEO of Massey Energy rakes in

-------
                                                     84




 1  approximately $13,600.




 2               So somebody certainly is benefiting from




 3  mountaintop removal.




 4               I wanted to mention something about the




 5  Alternatives.  The reason Alternative Number 3, is so




 6  attractive for the coal industry and which I think




 7  that is definitely the wrong way to go.  That is a




 8  fast track.




 9               That means that everything is given a




10  rubber stamp, nationwide permit.  I think what Julian




11  mentioned before, this is for minimal adverse




12  environmental impact.




13               The coal industry likes this because it




14  is the quickest -- is a strategy which enriches their




15  bottom line,  and so that is why they prefer that.




16               We don't prefer that.




17               In fact, we believe that mountaintop




18  removal should be banned.  There might be lots, and




19  lots of laws, like Chris Hamilton mentioned before.




20  But unfortunately there doesn't seem to be anybody




21  who has political will to enforce the laws.  Whether




22  it is AFC laws, flood control, bond release, or you




23  name it.




24               Finally, there was some mention about

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                                                     85




 1  Mark Canterbury's study, and what is a frequent




 2  decline in this nation wherein we have a prime




 3  habitat.




 4               Mountaintop removal will destroy and




 5  fragment —




 6               MR.  CHAIRMAN:   You are out of time.




 7               MS.  FOUT:  Well, thank you.




 8               MR.  CHAIRMAN:   Thank you.




 9               MS.  FOUT:  I will submit written




10  comments.




11               Thank you very much.




12               MR.  CHAIRMAN:   James Maynard.




13               And the next speaker will be Donna




14  Price.




15               MR.  MAYNARD:  My name is James Maynard,




16  I am in Delbarton, West Virginia.  I just don't like




17  the way they are tearing our mountains up, filling up




18  the hollows, and stuff like that.




19               It is not real good, or you know.




20               The environmental -- and stuff like




21  that,  and the trees, and stuff, tearing it up.




22               I have seen it all.  I have seen trees




23  tore all to pieces and just thrown over the hill and




24  covered up and everything else.

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                                                     86




 1               What do you call them dams, and stuff




 2  like that?  I have seen them, too, and they ain't no




 3  good.




 4               That is all I got to say.




 5               MR. CHAIRMAN:  The next speaker is




 6  Donna Price, and then the following speaker is Frieda




 7  Williams.




 8               MS. PRICE:  My name is Donna Price,  and




 9  I am from Dorothy, West Virginia, in the Coal River




10  Valley.




11               First, let me say that I am absolutely




12  against the mountaintop removal method of coal




13  mining.




14               This massively destructive mining




15  method,  has eradicated hundred of thousands of




16  Appalachian hardwood forests, and replaced them with




17  worthless  grassland.




18               It eliminates miles of precious




19  headwater  streams, and then there are these massive




20  valley fills.  Composed of waste rock and dirt that




21  is blasted from mountaintops, and dumped into the




22  nearest valley.




23               And by the way, for everyone who calls




24  valley fills usable flatland; West Virginia is the

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                                                     87




 1  Mountain State.




 2               These monstrosities are contemptuous




 3  insult to our heritage.




 4               Runoff from these fills degrades our




 5  tributary streams and clogs them with silt.




 6               Recent studies tell us that all of these




 7  things contribute to the dangerous flash floods, that




 8  have become a plague across this region over the past




 9  several years.




10               Now none of this is news to you people




11  who live near mountaintop removal; we are seeing




12  these things happen.  We live with them every day.




13  We know what is happening,  to our land, and our




14  homes, our communities, our schools.




15               We know exactly why our highest




16  coal-producing counties have the highest unemployment




17  rate, and the highest poverty level in the state.




18               We all know these things.  And you know




19  about these things, too.  You may not be comfortable




20  with that knowledge, and you may choose to ignore it,




21  in order to make your study accomplish what it has




22  been designed to accomplish, which seems to be to




23  keep the coal industry profitable.




24               But you could never say that you don't

-------
 1  know about these things.   It has all been explained




 2  to you numerous times during these public hearings,




 3  and I think that this EIS is a shame and a sham.




 4               And I see people all over this region




 5  becoming more and more frustrated and angry at this




 6  administration, and these agencies, have failed in




 7  their duty to prevent this irresponsible destruction




 8  of our land and our water.




 9               One more thing:  This dirty little




10  secret is no longer confined to the hills and




11  hollows of central Appalachia.




12               The ravages  of mountaintop removal




13  mining, and the devastation it is causing to our




14  land, and water, and our  people.  All of these things




15  are being made known to citizens all over this




16  country, and the outrage  is growing.




17               Blowing up mountains is becoming a




18  decidedly unpopular method of mining coal.  It is too




19  destructive.  It violates the principles of the Clean




20  Water Act.




21               It is becoming unacceptable to the




22  people of this country, and it will be stopped.




23               Thank you.




24               MR. CHAIRMAN:  Frieda Williams.  And

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                                                     89




 1  then the next speaker will be Bill Price.




 2               When you come up, remember to speak into




 3  the microphone.




 4               Thank you.




 5               MS. WILLIAMS:  I am glad to have this




 6  opportunity again.




 7               I say,  no to mountaintop removal.




 8               Even those who work in the mines are




 9  affected by the damage that illegal and irresponsible




10  coal mining has on the citizens of the coal fields.




11               Over just the past two years, many homes




12  have been destroyed by flooding that has come from




13  mountaintop removal sites and by valley fills that




14  overflow.




15               No one knows how much water is stored in




16  our mountains.  I wish we did.




17               Throughout the coal fields, abandoned




18  deep mines have been filling with water for more than




19  50 years.  Research from the University of Kentucky,




20  established that water contains more than 60




21  different chemicals, all of which are polluting our




22  drinking water.




23               We know only too well what the problem




24  is.  We know what it will take to solve the problem.

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                                                     90




 1  We have the proof through the Governor's Flood




 2  Committee Report, and the national report on coal




 3  slurry damage.




 4               These reports have taken more than two




 5  years to complete.  So why the delay on putting the




 6  solution into place?




 7               The people of the coal fields need the




 8  answer yesterday.  Profits for a few, is not good




 9  enough reason to let this destruction continue.




10               If you really want to make a decision,




11  don't take anyone else's word, come to the coal




12  fields yourself.




13               More than 80 years ago, Mother Jones




14  said, "There is never peace in West Virginia because




15  there is never justice."




16               Unfortunately, that is still true




17  today.




18               Thank you.




19               MR. CHAIRMAN:  Bill Price, and then next




20  one will be James Chajmacki.   I will apologize for




21  that name, now.




22               MR. PRICE:  Can you hear me?  Because I




23  want to shout it to the rafters, it is time to stop




24  mountaintop removal mining.

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                                                     91




 1               My name is Bill Price, and I am the




 2  environmental justice resource coordinator for the




 3  Sierra Club in central Appalachia.




 4               I am a proud member of the Coal River




 5  Mountain Watch, and I am a resident of Dorothy, West




 6  Virginia, living smack down in the middle of the




 7  southern coal fields of West Virginia.




 8               I must tell you that I came here




 9  reluctantly.  Not because of any threats, or




10  intimidation — because we weren't going to listen to




11  that — but because I know that the Bush




12  Administration, and the Environmental Protection




13  Agency want us to come here, say our peace, and go




14  back and live under the valley fills again.




15               And I know that this EIS is a shame and




16  it is a sham, and the Bush Administration just don't




17  give a damn.




18               But in the end, I decided to come here




19  and tell the EPA, and others, that there is this




20  great frustration in the coal fields of West




21  Virginia, Kentucky, and Tennessee.




22               People who have for so long battled for




23  justice, are fed up with not being listened to, fed




24  up with laws not being enforced, fed up with crooked

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                                                     92




 1  politicians, fed up with the coal industry that puts




 2  profit above people, fed up with having our homes and




 3  lives destroyed in the name of corporate greed.




 4               From that frustration is coming power.




 5  Power that doesn' t come from money, and it doesn't




 6  come from status,  it comes from within.  And it comes




 7  with being united with people from around this




 8  region,  around this country, and around the world.




 9               I am here tonight to tell you about the




10  people.   I will tell you about a mother who used to




11  go out on her back porch with a cup of coffee in her




12  hand, and look up into the beautiful mountains and




13  valleys,  behind her home,  and now she goes up there,




14  and looks up at a pile of rock that they call a




15  valley fill, and she cries.




16               Mothers shouldn't be crying in the




17  States of West Virginia, Kentucky and Tennessee.




18               This EIS is a sham.  And we can do




19  better.




20               And I want to tell you about a father




21  who once took his son fishing in the mountain streams




22  surrounding his home to teach him how to fish, like




23  his father had before him.  Now he would have to




24  explain to his little boy how that mountain stream is

-------
                                                     93




 1  no longer there.   How it is part of over 700 miles of




 2  streams that have been buried by mountaintop removal




 3  mining.




 4               Daddy should not have to explain that to




 5  the little boy,  and the EIS does not solve that




 6  problem,  and we can do better.




 7               I want to tell you about a grandfather




 8  and grandmother,  who worked their entire lives to get




 9  a little place up in the mountains so that they could




10  retire in peace and quiet.   And now, every day that




11  peace and quiet,  is blasted, because of blasting on




12  the mountains above them, and they are afraid, pissed




13  off, and stressed out.




14               And grandparents should not have to live




15  that way.  This EIS does not solve that problem, and




16  we can do better.




17               And you need to hear about the




18  children.  The children who are going to bed every




19  night that it rains fully clothed because they don't




20  know that at 3 o'clock in the morning they may have




21  to get up and run for their lives.  Not from the




22  water coming from the streams, but the water that is




23  coming from the sediment ponds above them.




24               Children should not have to be going to

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                                                     94





 1  sleep fully clothed at night.  This EIS does not





 2  solve that.  And it is a sham, and we can do better.





 3               Frieda, thank you for mentioning Mother





 4  Jones.  Because people today are still fighting for





 5  justice in the coal fields, and we will have that.





 6               Our battle is not with the ones of those





 7  that are feeding their families, but it is with the





 8  greedy coal operators, and the West Virginia Coal





 9  Association who put profit above people.





10               And our battle with the Bush





11  Administration, that totally ignores the laws and





12  lets this illegal practice continue.





13               We will win.





14               We will have coal field justice, in





15  spite of the fact that this EIS is shame, and a sham,





16  and the Bush Administration just don't give a damn!





17               MR. CHAIRMAN:  James Chajmacki?





18               AUDIENCE MEMBER:  He left.





19               MR. CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Pam Medlin.





20               After Pam we will be taking another





21  small break again.





22               MS. MEDLIN:  I am Pam Medlin.  I am from





23  Charlotte, North Carolina.





24               I am here tonight representing a family

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                                                     95




 1  from McDowell County, West Virginia.




 2               My eighth-year-old son came to me




 3  recently with tears in his eyes asking, Mommy, why




 4  don't they realize that cutting down the mountains




 5  and trees causes flooding and hurts the earth.  Even




 6  I know that,  and I am just a kid.




 7               That single statement stunned me.  My




 8  immediate family no longer lived in West Virginia.




 9  My kids don't have to live in fear of another flood




10  or slurry dam breaking.  Yet they feel the pain of




11  their friends and family still living in the coal




12  fields of West Virginia.




13               My son heard me planning my trip here




14  today and begged to come along.  Why do you want to




15  go?  I asked him.  His reply, So that I can ask the




16  coal company, and the coal miners myself, why they




17  hate little kids so much.  They put them in danger.




18               Why can't we find better ways to make




19  electricity,  and why they can't be nice to the earth?




20               Again, I was stunned by the intelligence




21  of an eight-year-old child.   If he could understand,




22  then surely the coal companies, and the government




23  could understand, as well.




24               This earth is a gift given to all of us

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                                                     96




 1  for the short amount of time we are here.  Not just




 2  big business and people with money.




 3               For someone to have the audacity to




 4  think that they can improve the gift that has been




 5  given,  leaves me at a loss for words.




 6               What is going to be left for future




 7  generations?  When the last hardwood forest is being




 8  trucked out of here, and seeing flat scarred land




 9  where a majestic mountain once stood?




10               Can you, the coal companies, or you the




11  government, look into the innocent eyes of a child




12  and honestly say that you tried to do something good




13  for the earth and their future?  That you didn't




14  think mountaintop removal was bad for the earth?




15               We ask that you take an honest and




16  unbiased look at the government's own research.  They




17  have proven, without a shadow of a doubt, that




18  mountaintop removal and valley fills destroy our




19  environment and our future.




20               We ask that you extend the deadline for




21  comments on the Environmental Impact Statement, so




22  that all people can read, and fully understand the




23  devastation our own government, our own government,




24  is permitting to continue.

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                                                     97




 1               Perhaps it is time that we all realize




 2  that we are in this together.  There are




 3  alternatives,  and together we ought to succeed in




 4  making a difference.




 5               Remember the words of a child, "I know




 6  that, and I am just a kid."




 7               MR.  CHAIRMAN:  It is time that we all




 8  take a five-minute break here.  The two speakers




 9  after the break will be Winnie Fox.  Carolyn




10  Chajmacki, if she happens to still be here, and Patty




11  Sebok.




12               Let's take five minutes, and come back




13  in,  and if the speaker is speaking, again, be very




14  quiet.




15               Thank you.




16               (Break.)




17               MS.  FOX:  My name is Winnie Fox.  I am




18  from Huntington,  West Virginia, and I was born on the




19  Big Sandy River.




20               I have seen a lot of hideous things in




21  my time, but I have never, never seen anything as




22  hideous as mountaintop removal.




23               This state has the richest resources and




24  the poorest people.  We talk about we have no jobs,

-------
 1  our children have to leave this state because there




 2  is nothing here for them.  We educate them and then




 3  bid them good-bye.  They are like refugees.




 4               I am going to calm on down now.  But I




 5  want to read a poem that I wrote about Massey because




 6  I am supposed to restrain myself.  Because I might




 7  incinerate.




 8               "Ode to Massey Coal"




 9               "How you use energy all wrong




10               You have been among us too long.




11               Everything you have been doing is wrong.




12               You have messed up our rivers,




13               You have messed up our streams,




14               You have messed up our hopes,




15               and you have messed up our dreams.




16               You have blown up our mountains,




17               You have taken our wells,




18               and instead of respecting,




19               You've given us hell.




20               You've been a rotten corporate neighbor,




21               You've no respect for labor.




22               Now we have a monumental job of cleaning




23               up the mess you made,




24               And I've covered for the taxes you have

-------
                                                     99




 1               not paid.




 2               The ads that you running on TV to make




 3               you look good,




 4               but they are not working,




 5               you are still a corporate hood.




 6               The toxic sludge is so yucky,




 7               that you don't want Kentucky.




 8               Can we recover our losses,




 9               at the EPA office?




10               Stop this deadly World War,




11               We can't stand it anymore.




12               When we bid you goodbye,




13               there will be no tears in our eyes.




14               Here's to you, Dear Old Massey,




15               you have been a pain in the  . . .




16               neck."




17               These are sacred land, and these are




18  sacred people,  and you are the regulatory agency for




19  this site, and it is your sacred duty to protect




20  these mountains and protect these people.




21               Because if you don't,  you will have to




22  answer to somebody for that.  I promise.  And I keep




23  my promises.




24               Thank you so much.

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                                                     100





 1               MR. CHAIRMAN:  Carolyn Chajmacki?





 2               AUDIENCE MEMBER:  They left.





 3               MR. CHAIRMAN:  I knew he did, but I





 4  wasn't sure if she did or not.





 5               Patty Sebok.  And then after Patty, it





 6  will be Janice Neese.





 7               MS. SEBOK:  Hello.   My name is Patty





 8  Sebok.  I am a lifelong resident of Boone County,





 9  West Virginia.





10               My ancestors also have been here since





11  the 1700's.  My father was a coal miner, and my





12  husband is a coal miner.  So I am not against all





13  coal mining.  But I am against mountaintop removal





14  mining.





15               I keep hearing that mountaintop removal





16  mining provides the only good paying jobs in a





17  depressed region, and levels out rough terrain for





18  future development.  Well MTR mining provides so many





19  jobs,  then why are the coal mining counties the





20  poorest of the state?





21               Name me one mountaintop removal site





22  that has been developed on the Big Coal River area.





23  We hear that there is no economic development because





24  of a lack of potential development sites.

-------
                                                     101




 1               Big Coal River area has over 95,000




 2  acres of flattened land.  Is this not enough land for




 3  development?  Where are the development plans for the




 4  land?  What is the percentage of mountaintop removal




 5  sites that are developed from destroyed mountains?




 6               Boone County has an economic development




 7  plan, but it plainly states that if an MTR site is




 8  not within a half of a mile of a four-lane road,




 9  there will be no development.




10               So on our side, the Big Coal River side




11  of Boone County, there will not be any development.




12               If mountaintop removal mining is so good




13  for communities, why isn't there any mountaintop




14  removal going on in Charleston or South Charleston.




15  Is it because mountaintop removal impacts the poor,




16  those without power?  You won't see it in the rich




17  communities.




18               Lives are lost, homes destroyed, and




19  communities devastated.  Plus the loss of our culture




20  when we lose our mountains, and the freedoms that go




21  into our mountains.




22               Deer and bear are being seen in people's




23  yards in the daytime to eat because they are being




24  run out by mountaintop removal.  They have no food.

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                                                     102




 1               In the past four years, I have seen more




 2  deer coming in my yard to eat grass than I have in my




 3  entire lifetime.




 4               If you think that enforcement of




 5  existing regulations will not be economically




 6  beneficial to continue mining, then go back to deep




 7  mining.




 8               Deep mining does not cause the problems




 9  that mountaintop removal mining does.  Plus, it




10  provides more jobs, with much less environmental




11  impact on communities, and private property owners.




12               Last year, my husband was laid off twice




13  from the deep mines, while the mountaintop removal




14  sites were working night and day.




15               Mountaintop removal mines does not




16  provide half as many jobs as deep mines, but deep




17  mines cannot compete with the cheap prices of




18  mountaintop removal coal.




19               This EIS study costs the American




20  taxpayers -- yes, the American taxpayers, not just




21  West Virginia taxpayers — $8 million.




22               And it started out to minimize the




23  potential for adverse effects of mining operations.




24               So I would like to know how did it come

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                                                     103




 1  to be a streamline permitting process?




 2               Thank you.




 3               MR. CHAIRMAN:  Janice Neese.  The next




 4  speaker will be Chuck Wrostok.




 5               MS. NEESE:  Hi.  My name is Janice Neese




 6  and I am currently the executive director of




 7  Coal River Mountain Watch.




 8               I, too, am a lifelong West Virginian.  I




 9  have come from two generations of coal miners.




10               For over five years — the last five




11  years — I have been working very closely with the




12  residents of the southern coal fields, fighting the




13  environmental,  social, and economic impacts of




14  mountaintop removal mining.




15               It is the hardest job that I have ever




16  done in my job, and I was a teacher for 31 years.  So




17  that is saying quite a bit.




18               It seems, four long years, we have been




19  waiting the results of the study, hoping that someone




20  would finally listen.  Unfortunately, you chose not




21  to.




22               While we were waiting, we were




23  suffering.  While you were studying, we were




24  suffering.  It seems that every study is the same

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                                                     104




 1  result.  We expect something good, and it is always




 2  something bad.




 3               In the four years that you were working




 4  on this study, we have suffered from -- we have




 5  suffered the decapitation of our mountains, and the




 6  dumping of valley fills into our streams.   We have




 7  suffered air pollution, dust pollution, three




 8  devastating floods.




 9               We have had sludge dumps, sludge dam




10  spills, valley-fill failures, et cetera, et cetera,




11  et cetera.




12               And I could take my five minutes telling




13  you of what we studied, but that's not what I'm going




14  to do.




15               I'm going to tell you that the study




16  that you released, shames every member of the




17  community.  And it deals a death blow to both the




18  physical environment and human environment in the




19  southern coal fields.




20               I am not sure -- I am not sure why you




21  chose to side with the coal industry, and with their




22  false economics.  Maybe, perhaps,  you were swayed by




23  the threat of lost jobs.




24               I am 67 years old, and I have heard that

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                                                     105




 1  threat since I was six years old.   I lived through




 2  it.




 3               Why does the coal industry think that




 4  they are entitled to a job,  when the rest of the




 5  nation,  schoolteachers,  all  types  of people, have




 6  lost their jobs?




 7               Are we out trying to  protect their




 8  jobs?  Have I seen anyone on this  committee try to




 9  protect their jobs?  No.   It is only the coal




10  industry.




11               They think that they  should take a few




12  jobs that they give to a community,  and we should be




13  grateful.




14               They also tell  us that we are,




15  obligated, to provide cheap  energy for the nation.




16  Well, we don't think so.




17               We have no intentions of allowing this




18  to continue.  We have no intentions of seeing our




19  communities destroyed, our mountains destroyed, our




20  heritage destroyed; everything that we hold dear is




21  destroyed.




22               How many people did you talk to from the




23  southern coal fields when you did  this study?  Did




24  you interview anyone in the  Boone  County area?  Did

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                                                     106




 1  you interview anybody from the impoverished counties




 2  of Mingo, McDowell, Boone, parts of Raleigh?




 3               We didn't see you.  We didn't hear from




 4  you.  You know, when we send in our comments, we




 5  seriously think that they are probably not even read.




 6               I would like to talk a little bit, too,




 7  about — well, I wanted to say, something else about




 8  what, perhaps, changed your mind about what you were




 9  supposed to do?  Perhaps you fell prey to the coal




10  industry's economists' point of view.




11               Let me tell you about the economy of




12  coal.  Coal is a false prosperity.  It enriches the




13  few, to the detriment of many.




14               The motto of coal is get as much coal as




15  you can with the fewest number of men, and the




16  greatest amount of profit, and get out, with — the




17  profit — as fast as you can.




18               I have seen that three times in my




19  lifetime.  I have seen that happen, and nothing is




20  left behind for West Virginia, and nothing is left




21  behind for Kentucky.




22               Finally, I would like to say something




23  about reclamation.  You know, one of the gentlemen on




24  that site said that they shouldn't have to reclaim

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                                                     107




 1  these places because it is difficult, you know, it is




 2  difficult to do.




 3               They are required by law to reclaim




 4  these land sites.  Nothing has been done in Boone




 5  County,  for Boone County.  Four percent have been




 6  reclaimed, if at all.




 7               What I am here to tell you tonight, is




 8  that we are angry,  and we wanted to tell you:  Hell,




 9  no,  to your study,  and hell,  no, to mountaintop




10  removal mining.




11               Thank you.




12               MR. CHAIRMAN:  Chuck Wrostok.




13               And then after Chuck, we will have




14  Marian Miller.




15               MR. WROSTOK:  My name is Chuck Wrostok.




16  After Chris Hamilton gave his qualifications, I guess




17  I have to say that I am not a native West Virginian.




18  But I have been here for 27 years, and I am here to




19  stay.  I am not going anywhere.




20               For the federalities they are here




21  tonight, I also want to say that I have 40 years




22  experience as a U.S. taxpayer.




23               This EIS report is an unhealthy example




24  of the type of double speak emanating from

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                                                     108




 1  Washington,  B.C.,  these days.




 2               I can understand the delay in the




 3  release of such a document.  It has to be




 4  embarrassing to some of the authors.




 5               Who would be proud of a document that




 6  makes such a strong case for protecting the




 7  environment, while recommending a speedier way to




 8  destroy it?




 9               So as a taxpayer,  I am formally




10  demanding a  refund of the $8 million that you spent




11  on this.




12               Now if our government was controlled by




13  the people,  and for the people, we wouldn't be here




14  today defending our mountains from mutilation?




15               We would not have to deal with the




16  perverse logic of an EIS report that tells us of vast




17  environmental damage from mountaintop mining, and




18  then makes it easier to get permits to do this very




19  same damage.




20               Am I missing something here?  I mean, I




21  don't get it, or what?




22               We also wouldn't have to deal with the




23  dark minds that control the mining industry who would




24  destroy one  of the world's most diverse ecosystems

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                                                     109




 1  for the sake of profit.




 2               If we had a government that was




 3  controlled by the people -- there is already a




 4  healthy mistrust of the Federal government in this




 5  neck of the woods, and this EIS report doesn't help.




 6               Today, miners, drivers and their




 7  families,  are faced with terrible choices.  They are




 8  being asked to transform their woods through hunting




 9  grounds, their fishing streams into barren wasteland,




10  or lose their jobs.  It is an awful choice.  One that




11  they should not have to make.




12               Many of them were here today.  If you




13  look into the hearts of many of the people here, you




14  will see many of the neighbors, everyday folks like




15  yourselves, thinking about their choice to have a




16  home, and a decent life in these hills and hollows of




17  this beautiful land; these mountains that God made.




18               Some people will say that there will




19  eventually be jobs at Walmarts, and fast-food places




20  on this reclaimed land, but who could live on minimum




21  wage and no benefits?




22               By the way, this "reclaimed land"




23  phrase, I have a little trouble with.  Where I come




24  from, we call it a landfill.  It is usually filled

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                                                     110




 1  with junk.




 2               We all have to work together to find a




 3  way to keep our mountain heritage and have good jobs,




 4  too.




 5               If federal agencies can bail out savings




 6  and loans associations, if they can bail out airlines




 7  with billions of dollars of money that come out of




 8  our pockets,  then it could help coal-field people




 9  create good-paying jobs here in West Virginia.




10               It is like we are invisible here,




11  sometimes.




12               Federal subsidies could create jobs in




13  alternative-energy research, development and




14  construction, jobs with a future.




15               Are we to become an energy-sacrifice




16  zone, because we can't pull together for a more




17  diverse economic future?  Surely we can do better.




18               Now maybe the Government agencies  who




19  are so anxious to now communicate with one another,




20  could communicate with agencies and see what they




21  could do about this.




22               There are plenty of people down here




23  willing to work.  They need the jobs, they have the




24  resilience, they have the intelligence, and they have

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                                                     Ill




 1  the work ethic.




 2               We are not about to have this




 3  government,  which is controlled by industry, destroy




 4  our way of life.   These mountains are not an




 5  impediment to progress; they are our soul.




 6               We reject the premise of having jobs,




 7  while devastating our land forever is a good thing.




 8  It is a dead-end path.




 9               As Woody Guthrie put it, This land is




10  our land.   The water, the air, the soil that sustains




11  us.  These are our rights and vital ingredients for




12  the common good of everyone.




13               A good Government report would not only




14  reflect that, but would find ways to sustain the




15  common good.




16               MR.  CHAIRMAN:  Sir, you are out of time.




17               MR.  WYROSTOK:  Thank you.




18               MR.  CHAIRMAN:  The next speaker is




19  Marian Miller, and then after that is




20  Pauline Cantebury.




21               May I remind you again, to please adjust




22  the mic so that all the people can hear everyone.




23               Thank you.




24               MS.  MILLER:  My name is Marian Miller.

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                                                     112




 1  I live in Sylvester, in a coal-dust town that has




 2  surrounded us.




 3               I  am against mountaintop removal.  We




 4  need to protect our water streams, and our rivers --




 5  God gave us these beautiful mountains, not to be




 6  destroyed.




 7               I  moved to Boone County in 1951.  There




 8  were coal mines and coal camps along Coal River.




 9  They did not remove the mountain tops years ago, and




10  it was a bigger demand for the coal in 1951 when I




11  moved to Coal River.




12               Why do they have to remove the mountain




13  tops now?




14               This is where our State, our Federal




15  government needs to make laws, enforce them.  Don't




16  force people out.  Don't wait until it is too late




17  and we are washed off.  Act now on the law.




18               When I go to bed at night, I do not know




19  if we are going to be flooded after a heavy rain, or




20  if an impoundment will break loose.  We do not have




21  any kind of a warning signal.




22               I  am between two most endangered




23  impoundments.  One is across the river from me, and




24  one is five miles up the road.

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                                                     113




 1               Now we think, Are we going to be washed




 2  down Coal River?  Does anybody here really know?  No.




 3               I am not against coal mining, because we




 4  need coal, and we need jobs, but don't destroy our




 5  mountains and communities.




 6               There should be a law of how close the




 7  mines are built to a town.  Before the mountaintop's




 8  removal, and pollution in Coal River, we could swim




 9  in the river, we could fish in the river.  We could




10  take a little canoe ride down Coal River, but they




11  are dammed up the river now, and we can't go




12  nowhere — can't fish.




13               In the wintertime,  we used to go ice




14  skating.  The Coal River would freeze over.  Now what




15  is in our river?  What kind of chemical is in our




16  river that they do not freeze now?




17               Now I have got a little picture here I




18  want to show you, that the people in Sylvester have




19  suffered over a mountaintop removal.  Right there,




20  (indicating)  is where a stoker plant is put about 300




21  yards from my home.




22               Now on the count of all of the coal dust




23  that we are getting from the stoker plant, it has




24  ruined our little town.

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                                                     114




 1               Now my time is almost up, but I just




 2  want to tell one more thing:  We have lost our




 3  schools, and I feel now that I have lost my home.




 4               My home is appraised at $144,000.  And




 5  on the count of the coal dust, it is wort $12,000.




 6  It has depreciated.  This is what I have worked so




 7  hard on all my life, and it is only worth $10,000,




 8  not enough to bury me.




 9               My husband was in the War.  He fought




10  for our country; now I  am fighting for my home.




11               I am damn  mad.  Now they say we have no




12  pollution; they are crazy.




13               This is what we put up with,




14  (indicating), coal dust.




15               MR. CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, ma'am.




16               Next speaker is Pauline Cantebury.




17               Then the next speaker is Melvin Tyrce.




18               MS. CANTEBURY:  My name is Pauline




19  Cantebury, and I am also from the town of Sylvester,




20  West Virginia.




21               Whoever said that we don't have any coal




22  dust anymore?  Up there in the part of West Virginia




23  where they say that we  don't have any coal dust




24  anymore -- well whoever said that here tonight, sure

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                                                     115




 1  has not been in Sylvester in the last five years.




 2  Because the last five years, the town of Sylvester




 3  has been totally polluted, demolished, destroyed with




 4  coal dust.




 5               This Environmental Impact Statement you




 6  have made does nothing for the communities.




 7               You did not even come into the




 8  communities, you didn't ask us anything.  You didn't




 9  ask us why we were complaining like we were




10  complaining.




11               I want to tell you what it is like to




12  live in the coal field today.  Mountaintop removal




13  mining of coal fields today is massive ruination,  not




14  only to the beautiful Appalachian mountains of West




15  Virginia, but to every creature whose existence




16  depends on these mountains for survival, and to the




17  citizens who live in the valley below them.




18               Much danger and destruction lurch behind




19  a guard shack, at the mouth of those operations.




20               Explosions that resemble the Atom Bomb,




21  fill the airway with rock dust for miles away,




22  covering the valley below, and all those who dwell




23  within, with this deadly stuff, which causes




24  silicosis.

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                                                     116




 1               Inadequate runoff ponds are built in the




 2  hollows that break during heavy rains,  hitting walls




 3  of water gushing down the mountains destroying




 4  everything and everyone in its path.




 5               Dams are built up over hollows,  holding




 6  millions of gallons of black slurry, loaded with over




 7  60 chemicals and varying degrees of age and erosion.




 8  And seeping into underground mines that are in the




 9  entire past history,  threatening valleys and people




10  below them who have no route to safety.  Buffalo




11  Creek and Martin County, Kentucky, are two good




12  examples of what will happen.




13               The first of these impoundments is




14  released constantly into our streams and rivers.




15               The Big Coal River, in Boone County, was




16  a free-flowing river.  It is now a trickling stream




17  blocked at intervals with illegal dams and it is one




18  of the most contaminated rivers in the United States




19  of America, and it is the drinking water supply for




20  that area.




21               Illegal substances, such as rock dust




22  are disposed of in these impoundments.   Unmarked




23  tankers and drums travel constantly into these areas




24  across our highways.

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                                                     117




 1               The dark of night hides many things.




 2  Powdery,  black coal dust pours from uncovered




 3  structures,  placed near residential areas, polluting




 4  the air for miles, destroying citizens'  properties,




 5  homes,  and exposing everyone to black lung.




 6               The entry in the year 2000, had a 100




 7  percent higher cancer risk than the Clean Water Act




 8  allows.  It is no different today.




 9               The allotted time period speak here does




10  not allow enough to tell all of the vicious acts that




11  are being imposed by the citizens of West Virginia in




12  the southern coal fields caused by mountaintop




13  removal.




14               As a fellow Republican, and with due




15  respect,  I challenge President Bush, and you, the




16  impact committee, to come into the hollows and




17  valleys of southern West Virginia, and feel the




18  explosions shake the house that you are standing in,




19  while the walls crumble, and pictures fall to the




20  floor.




21               And the continuing fear of rock dust




22  falling through the air on your body and breathe it




23  into your lungs.




24               To watch the sun disappear behind the

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                                                     118




 1  clouds.   To see the stress, the streams and rivers




 2  turn black with a chemical-layden slurry, or catch a




 3  fish with holes eaten into its body from those




 4  chemicals, and see the animals killed along the




 5  highway after being driven from their habitat.  Then




 6  show from the odor of the acid runoff from watching




 7  the toxic slide seep from the valley fills where they




 8  have filled the valleys.




 9               Then witness a person dying from




10  hemorrhaging lungs, eaten up with coal dust, or a




11  black-lung victim, gasping for air into his mouth




12  clogged with coal dust.




13               And see a child panic, when it rains,




14  fearing his home will be destroyed again.  Then leave




15  our valley of narrow bridges and unkept highways,




16  dodging their car between the mountains, and




17  overloaded coal truck swerving in your lane.  That is




18  mountaintop removal mining living.




19               I am a coal miner's daughter, and a coal




20  miner's wife.  I am now a 73-year-old widow, who




21  worked 45 years to acquire the home that I have, but




22  now my home is worthless.  My home is full of black




23  coal dust.




24               MR. CHAIRMAN:  You are out of time.

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                                                     119




 1               MS. CANTEBURY:  My home is —




 2               Sir, I think I have lost enough, if you




 3  can bear with me this time.




 4               MR. CHAIRMAN:  I'm sorry, ma'am.  We




 5  have several people, but when you get through, you




 6  can put your comments in the comment box.




 7               MS. CANTEBURY:  Okay.  Let me say one




 8  more thing:  On my worthless home, on the wall, is a




 9  plaque with metals on it.  The same metals that




10  Jessica Lynch has on her chest.




11               My husband fought in three major battles




12  in World War II, spending 116 days as a Prisoner of




13  War, in Germany.




14               I am so glad that he is not here today




15  to see the things that he had, for the sacrifices




16  that he paid, and see his home like it is today.




17               Thank you.




18               MR. CHAIRMAN:  Melvin Tyrce.  Then the




19  next speaker will be Bill McCabe.




20               MR. TYRCE:  My name is Mel Tyrce and I




21  am a resident of Hurricane, West Virginia.  As long




22  as we are keeping count, I am a fifth generation




23  West Virginian.




24               I have a general comment to make at

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                                                     120




 1  first,  and then I have some specific things about the




 2  EIS.




 3               Let's be honest here,  okay?  Mountaintop




 4  removal is about a cheap and easy access to a




 5  nonsustainable energy source.




 6               It is not about redevelopment.  It is




 7  not about future sustainable energy.  It is about




 8  cheap and quick access to a nonrenewable energy




 9  source.  And that is what it is about.




10               Anyway, I think it is  going to take a




11  long time, but I think we are going to have to adopt




12  a society of permanence.  A sustainable energy,




13  sustainable economic development.




14               From my perspective, that is the




15  ultimate answer here.




16               Anyway, that is my first thing.




17               The second comment I got is:  What would




18  be the Corps of Engineer's criteria from deciding




19  between nationwide permit, verses individual  permit?




20               To me, that is the best concern.  The




21  process would go a lot quicker with a nationwide




22  permit.  I think this is a critical issue that I am




23  not sure is fully defined yet.  I think it is




24  something I think we need to look at.

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                                                     121




 1               The third thing I had is:   Will




 2  mitigated or replace wetlands, or waters of the




 3  United States be equal,  in terms of the same quality




 4  and functionality,  and species of diversity of the




 5  wetlands that were replaced?




 6               In other words, are we talking quality




 7  here,  or quantity?  That is an important thing.




 8               I am not familiar with the 404 process




 9  of mountaintop removal,  but I have delineated




10  wetlands for 404 permit process for other industries,




11  and there is a certain amount of accountability there




12  in terms of quality in mitigated wetlands,  verses




13  quality of a destroyed wetland.




14               I think that is an important




15  consideration, particularly some of these headwaters,




16  is really vitally important for downstream energy




17  budgets.




18               I think that needs to be looked at.




19               The fourth thing I got,  I  am not sure




20  from looking through the EIS if this  was covered:




21  What are the long-term impacts to downstream energy




22  budgets from the loss of ephemeral or upper streams?




23               There is a lot of ephemeral aquatic




24  energy sources, the nutrients that are  presented from

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                                                     122




 1  flowing downstream,  when these ephemeral streams are




 2  buried.  I am just wondering about long-term.  20,




 3  30,  50 years down the road.   I am not sure that was




 4  addressed.




 5               The other comment I had:  How will




 6  Alternative 3 be financed?  I have heard some people




 7  talk about streamlining, and how we will put this




 8  under one state agency.




 9               I used to work for the DEP, and funding




10  is something they had very little of.  And I don't




11  understand how this increased responsibility for the




12  State DEP, will be funded, in terms of enforcement,




13  permit, review, and that kind of thing.




14               The State is now strapped for cash.




15  I mean, how are the budgets of the DEP going to




16  withstand this nationwide permit process if it is




17  passed?




18               It is confusing.




19               I believe that is it.




20               The last thing — God forbid —




21  mountaintop removal continues, I think that we really




22  have to seriously look at sustainable  replacement in




23  terms of economically sustainable development, as




24  well as environmentally sustainable environment.

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                                                     123




 1               I have heard people talk about that the




 2  industry representatives say that they don't have a




 3  crystal ball,  but they seem to.




 4               I mean,  if they are coming out here and




 5  destroying hundreds of thousands of acres of land,




 6  and burying streams,  they must know something that




 7  the environmentalists don't know in terms of their




 8  impact.




 9               So I don't buy that as an excuse for




10  not having the proper language in place before these




11  permits are issued, guarantees about the development




12  of this property.  That has been a shortfall in the




13  past,  and it seems now is the time to correct that.




14  If mountaintop removal is allowed to continue.




15               Thank you.




16               MR.  CHAIRMAN:   Bill McCabe.




17               MR.  McCABE:  Can I  ask the panel a quick




18  procedural question?




19               MR.  CHAIRMAN:   What would that be, sir?




20               MR.  McCABE:  I was  wondering if there




21  are any other citizens of the coal fields that are




22  effected by this  horrible tragedy that want to




23  speak?




24               Can  I see hands?

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                                                     124




 1               Okay.   Would it be possible,  sir,  that I




 2  yield my time until you hear from — I am worried




 3  about your attention span,  is what I am worried




 4  about.  And it would be more important for you to




 5  hear from them, because they are actually taking it.




 6               Can I  swap places with the last of the




 7  two speakers that would be anti-mountaintop removal




 8  from the coal fields?




 9               Sure I can.




10               MR. CHAIRMAN:   I would have to move you




11  to the bottom of the list,  sir.  That is the only way




12  I can conceivably do that.




13               MR. McCABE:  If moving me at the bottom




14  of the list is after the last person who speaks




15  against mountaintop removal.




16               MR. CHAIRMAN:   I don't know who speaks




17  for what.  That would be the only way to do that.




18  Either speak now or move to the bottom.




19               MR. McCABE:  I am going to yield to the




20  expertise of the coal fields.




21               MR. CHAIRMAN:   The next speaker will be




22  Florence — I am going to guess — Twu.  I may be




23  wrong.




24               Then the speaker after that will be

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                                                     125




 1  Abraham,  M-W-A-U-R-A.  I won't even try that one.




 2               Florence Twu.   Then the next speaker




 3  will be Abraham,  M-W-A-U-R-A, after Florence.




 4               Is Florence here?




 5               MS.  TWU:  My name is Florence Twu.  I




 6  grew up in West Virginia, and my family moved to




 7  Illinois.   This is the first time that I have been




 8  back to the state for 13 years.




 9               I didn't come back to see flat grassy




10  land, there is enough of that in Illinois.  I came




11  back because all of my childhood memories are




12  universally tied up with the mountains in this




13  state.




14               And I am pissed off, enough to be back




15  here working at the Ohio Valley Environmental




16  Coalition.




17               I am a student at Harvard, and I can




18  speak to you about the economics and the terms of




19  multi-variable calculus, or parts of derivatives in




20  count theory, or cost-benefit analyzes.




21               But the first thing you learn in a




22  Harvard economics class is that economics gets shut




23  out by politics,  and that is exactly what has




24  happened in this EIS statement.

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                                                     126




 1               An economic study that was prepared to




 2  be part of the EIS said that even under the




 3  restrictive scenarios studied by the DEP, the




 4  economic cost of dramatically limiting valley fills




 5  would be minimal.




 6               There's a study found in the draft EIS,




 7  or was it discarded because the Bush Administration




 8  didn't like the results?  This is called




 9  appeasement.




10               It is a shame if you cannot come up with




11  an answer that is  more humane.  And I can't even




12  believe how much I have learned from these people




13  here.  But I  don't need my degree to tell you that




14  this is wrong.




15               But of my time here, it is just -- I am




16  going to use  my education to stop this.  And I think




17  you are smart enough to know that this is not the




18  right thing to do.




19               MR. CHAIRMAN:  Abraham — I am not sure




20  how to pronounce the last name, M-W-A-U-B-A. (sic)




21               And then after Abraham, we'll have Jason




22  Sneed.




23               MR. MWAURA:  Thank you gentlemen,  and




24  ladies.  My name is Abraham Mwaura.  I am from

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                                                     127




 1  Huntington, West Virginia.  I work with OVEC.




 2               MR. CHAIRMAN:  Can you speak up?




 3               MR. MWAURA:  Okay.  Abraham Mwaura,




 4  Huntington, West Virginia.  I work with OVEC.




 5               I guess I am just going to continue




 6  participating in this frustrating stating of the




 7  obvious.  I have Tylenol with me.  I didn't have




 8  selenium with me.




 9               I am going to put a nontoxic dose of




10  Tylenol in my nonrenewable resource.




11               Then now I am going to talk to you about




12  stuff you already know.  I mean you wrote a whole




13  report on this stuff.  You guys better know this




14  stuff, you know the impact of mountaintop removal,




15  but I am going to say it anyway to you, so bear with




16  me.




17               There has been a grave error, first of




18  all,  in your statement.  The one I received was on




19  the environmental impacts of mountaintop removal, and




20  you sent one on the economic impact of mountaintop




21  removal to the coal guys, because they came up here




22  and talked about coal, and economic development, and




23  all sorts of good things moneywise, that is going to




24  come from coal, different statements.

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                                                     128




 1               The coal industry loves, and often says




 2  that mountaintop removal only affects one percent of




 3  the state.




 4               In fact, they recently revised that




 5  figure to two percent.  Remember, mountaintop removal




 6  happens in southern West Virginia, not in the north,




 7  so it is not the whole state.




 8               Several years ago, CNN reported that




 9  over 20 percent of the land mass in some county has




10  been subject to mountaintop removal.




11               It is probably more now.  We're talking




12  about counties like Boone, Logan, and Mingo.  This




13  huge land disturbance obviously creates massive




14  problems.




15               Take the last few years, flooding, as an




16  example.  But you guys know this, remember?




17               Remember that when the coal industry




18  tells you how much it puts into the state in terms of




19  taxes, remember what we pay,  and pay, and pay, to




20  clean it up.




21               The EIS needs to include a full




22  accounting of all tax subsidies that coal industry




23  gets.  Remember the billion dollar super tax credit




24  that was supposed to create jobs, and instead was

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                                                     129




 1  used to buy giant machines that replaced loads of




 2  miners; remember?




 3               The EIS should have a full accounting of




 4  all of the externalized costs associated with




 5  mountaintop removal.




 6               This industry continues to pit




 7  working-class people against working class people,




 8  while whisking profits out of state and leaving us,




 9  our children, and our children's children a fiscal,




10  social, and environmental bill that will be




11  impossible to pay.




12               The draft EIS fails to note the act of




13  environmental terrorism that are being committed




14  right here in Appalachia.




15               Some have been saying that we need to




16  sacrifice West Virginia's mountains, so that the




17  nation can have cheap energy without relying on




18  foreign sources of energy.




19               Arthur Dennis Burke,  using government




20  statistics -- Government statistics -- calculated




21  that 2,500 tons of explosives are used against the




22  Appalachian mountains each day.




23               That is every four days more explosives




24  are used in mountaintop removal coal mining that were

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                                                     130




 1  used in the post 911 bombing of Afghanistan in the




 2  hunt for Bin Laden.




 3               In the long run,  no amount of bombing of




 4  own our coal fields, will ever give us homeland




 5  security.




 6               In fact, the ironic thing is that this




 7  bombing is destroying our homeland.  But again, you




 8  guys know this, you wrote a report on it.




 9               Our nation's energy appetite shouldn't




10  and needn't drive us to justify such massive




11  cruelties  to people and the land that supports us.




12               There are alternatives.  The World Watch




13  Institute  says that renewable cleaner energy




14  technology are advanced enough to satisfy the world's




15  energy needs now.  That is without whole-hearted




16  government support for research and development in




17  these technologies.




18               Just think what we could do if we had




19  Manhattan  Project Org. alternative energies.  World




20  watch says the main thing lacking in getting




21  alternative energy in place, is the political Bush.




22               The EIS needs to expose Bush




23  Administration ties to fossil fuel energy industry




24  and it needs to recommend that we begin a full-scale

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                                                     131




 1  switch to alternative energy.




 2               Bring that industry to the coal fields.




 3  That way, we can have jobs, as well as a future.




 4               MR. CHAIRMAN:  You are out of time.




 5               MR. MWAURA:  Now I dare one of you to




 6  drink the water that I just put a safe amount of




 7  Tylenol in over a period of 20, or 30 years, in a




 8  nonrenewable resource, our water.  But the dose of




 9  selenium that I put in is safe.




10               MR. CHAIRMAN:  Is Jason Sneed here?




11               (No response.)




12               MR. CHAIRMAN:  Okay, the next person the




13  Connie Lewis.




14               Is Connie here?




15               Okay.  Connie will be speaking next and




16  after Connie it will be Paul Nelson.




17               MS. LEWIS:  Before I begin my formal




18  remarks, I have only lived in West Virginia for 32




19  years since I finished graduate school at Penn State.




20               But I married a man whose family has




21  lived in the Kanawha Valley for 220 years.




22               I would also like to say that flat land,




23  a good transportation infrastructure, and a




24  willingness to work for it, for all that is needed

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                                                     132




 1  for economic development, please explain to me




 2  Youngstown, Ohio, and Flint, Michigan, and many of




 3  the other cities in the west coast, from which I have




 4  hailed.




 5               MR. CHAIRMAN:  Can you speak into the




 6  microphone, please?




 7               MS. LEWIS:  In a report prepared for




 8  West Virginia Manufacturers' Association, in 1925, a




 9  book entitled, "The Tax Problem in West Virginia"




10  The conference board said this about land, and I




11  quote:




12               "Land is a common heritage of the human




13  race.  Hence its destruction has always been looked




14  upon as  an insult to the welfare of human society."




15               "Unlike a healthy climate, water supply,




16  and similar assets which are owned collectively by




17  the entire community.  The natural resources within




18  the depths of the earth are subject to appropriation,




19  exploitation, and utter destruction."




20               "Through the operation of natural




21  processes, processes over centuries, and centuries,




22  these assets of the human race have been accumulated




23  for the  benefit of mankind; however, once depleted,




24  society  has sustained an irretrievable loss, and

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                                                     133




 1  future progress is thereby considerably retarded."




 2               And you have heard many stories that




 3  verify that statement from the conference board.  If




 4  it was true 80 years ago with the destruction of land




 5  looked upon as an insult to the welfare of society.




 6               It is certainly true now.   And if it is




 7  bad for society, it surely cannot be good for the




 8  economy,  and it surely cannot be good for the future




 9  of West Virginia and it cannot be good for the




10  environment, also known as our life support system,




11  or the plants and animals dependent on the land.




12               If it was true 80 years ago, that a




13  plentiful water supply was a community asset, it is




14  certainly true now.




15               And covering up streams and destroying




16  our water wells, certainly cannot be in the best




17  interest of the community.  It cannot be good for its




18  economy,  and it could not be good for its future.




19  And of course, it cannot be good for the environment,




20  or the plants, and animals dependent on the water




21  supply.




22               It is also true that small alterations




23  in land,  and land use, can affect the climate of a




24  small space.  Cities, for instance, are warmer than

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                                                     134




 1  the surrounding rural areas, and Israel discovered




 2  that planting citrus orchards changed rainfall




 3  patterns.




 4               So it is also true that removing




 5  mountaintops, and scraping the lands bare, and using




 6  the native hardwood forest, is probably affecting a




 7  climate, again, in small spaces.




 8               But I don't think you studied that, and




 9  I think you should have.




10               Even farmers, and gardeners know that




11  their land can have several different microclimates.




12  Destroying seven percent of the forest in this region




13  also affects the weather in unpredictable ways.




14               Wouldn't thousands of suddenly treeless




15  areas impact runoff from flooding?




16               Oh, you have already discovered that,




17  the DEP says so.




18               Given all this, it only makes sense to




19  move cautiously and to require stringent regulations




20  when allowing a company to make a permanent,




21  uncorrectable land alteration for a short-term




22  economic purpose.




23               All the alternatives in the EIS prevent




24  the long-term protection of the land, and the water,

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                                                     135




 1  and the human and natural communities dependent upon




 2  them.




 3               The proposals in the EIS assume that the




 4  problem is with the cumbersome bureaucracy;  that is




 5  wrong.




 6               The problem is with the destruction of




 7  the land and the waters.   It should be beneath the




 8  dignity of the professionals in the agency,  to




 9  participate in the destruction of water supplies.




10               It should be beneath the dignity of the




11  Army Corps and the Fish & Wildlife, and the  others,




12  to allow the stream-buffer rule to be cast aside like




13  an outgrown toy.




14               The EIS appears to begin with the




15  predetermined results, that mountaintop removal




16  mining should continue unimpeded.  That is not




17  science.  That is politics.




18               To begin with a result, is inherently




19  unscientific.  And anything unscientific should be




20  beneath the dignity of the professionals in  these




21  agencies.




22               The report should have supported the




23  stream-buffer rule, should have further limited the




24  size of valley fills, mandate the reforestations of

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                                                     136




 1  all sites not ready for development, protected water




 2  supplies, and should have supported the people of the




 3  region who must live with the consequences of




 4  destructive mining practices.




 5               Several hundred thousand acres sitting




 6  idle indicate that there is not a viable market for




 7  flat land in these 14 counties.




 8               We know that the damage caused by




 9  mountaintop removal mining is widespread, severe, and




10  destroys communities.




11               We know that it is getting worse, not




12  better and that too much of southern West Virginia




13  will be a moon state, except where it will be in




14  metal.




15               MR.  CHAIRMAN:  You are out of time.




16               MS.  LEWIS:  Governmental efficiency is




17  proposed in this  report.  It sounds as though the




18  Federal government is proposing a final solution for




19  our mountains.




20               MR.  CHAIRMAN:  Paul Nelson.




21               After Mr. Nelson we are going to take




22  our last five-minute break.




23               MR.  NELSON:  My name is Paul Nelson and




24  I live in Boone County, and I am against mountaintop

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                                                     137




 1  removal.




 2               Here I have a paper that has got 363




 3  issued mining permits, not counting the ones that are




 4  waiting to be issued -- pending.




 5               You keep talking about MTR creates




 6  jobs.   Well, actually it takes away jobs.




 7               I was a deep miner.  If we mined this




 8  much mineral bone, (indicating)  the companies frowned




 9  in eight-foot coal.  But if you look along the roads,




10  you can see 400-feet plus.  They will go for a seam




11  of coal this big and make money, now, that don't add




12  up.




13               Talk about where the economics are at,




14  it is  not here.




15               Another thing, we live in the United




16  States.  This flag is what we live under, and the




17  Constitution — it is like I have read, it is not




18  saying that any one person has the right, or any




19  certain people to have the power to dominate the




20  whole  world with destruction, or give us terrorism.




21  It is  supposed to be a free country.  We are not




22  supposed to live in terrorism.




23               These are the kinds of things that we




24  live with in our own countries.   Many of you have

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                                                     138




 1  been to Vietnam, you have seen soldiers lost, and




 2  killed due to booby traps.   Booby traps is what is in




 3  our mountains.




 4               What if your kids, or someone you know




 5  gets on it, if you do this,  you go to jail.  This is




 6  illegal, then why is nothing being done?




 7               It is so sad.   When I stand up, I pledge




 8  my flag, I do it with pride.




 9               When I am seeing what I am seeing,




10  working with the few coal companies, the barrens are




11  doing, they are laughing at this flag.  They may as




12  well burn it, as they did in the years that passed,




13  because it means nothing to them to flagrantly break




14  the laws that give us this  freedom.




15               What more do we have to do?  We don't




16  want to live in Afghanistan, this is our home.  We




17  have the richest coal in the United States, here in




18  Boone County.




19               They can mine  that mine responsibly, and




20  they would do it right because it is there, and they




21  want it, it is the richest  coal.  They can deep mine




22  that coal and put everybody to work that wants to




23  work.




24               The mines that I was at was 300-plus

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                                                     139




 1  men,  and they could have used that many more.  20 men




 2  can run a strip, and the biggest part of them don't




 3  even live in this state.  Because they come in from




 4  Alabama, and everywhere else.




 5               On the weekends, their money goes out of




 6  this state.   It is not right.  So what do we live in?




 7   We live in the United States; we are not a




 8  third-world country.




 9               That is all I have to say.




10               Thank you.




11               MR. CHAIRMAN:  Thank you.  We will be




12  taking a five-minute break.   We do have several more




13  speakers, so let's try to get back on time.




14               The next two speakers right after the




15  break will be Monty Fowler,  and Denise Giardina.




16               Just take a five-minute break, and hurry




17  back as soon as possible.




18               Thank you.




19               (Five-minute break.)




20               MR. FOWLER:  For the record, you got




21  mine right.   Way to go.




22               My name is Monty Fowler, I am from




23  Huntington,  West Virginia.  No, I have not lived here




24  my entire life.

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                                                     140




 1               Three observations, and then two




 2  comments.  First, I used to be a reporter in a past




 3  life,  and we had a name for reports like this, we




 4  called them doorstops, because that is the only




 5  useful purpose they should ever serve.




 6               This gentlemen, is a 4,000-page




 7  doorstop.




 8               Because for one thing, it is misnamed.




 9  You call it mountaintop mining, it is called




10  mountaintop removal.  You need to call it what it




11  is.




12               Second, there were studies done on the




13  cumulative economic impacts of the proposed




14  regulations; where are they?




15               I paid for them.   I want them in the




16  final  report,  because they show that the cumulative




17  economic impact of regulating mountaintop removal




18  mining,  are minimal.  I want those in the final




19  report.




20               Thirdly, the cumulative environmental




21  impacts  are not discussed in anything other than




22  vague  generalities that agree that well, mountaintop




23  removal  mining, might possibly be bad.  Duh.




24               I know that studies were done that

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                                                     141




 1  looked at the cumulative economic impact of




 2  mountaintop removal mining.  They indicated that the




 3  cumulative impacts were very great and were




 4  permanent.




 5               I want those studies, and those




 6  conclusions in the final report.  I paid for them; I




 7  deserve to have them in there.




 8               Two comments:   Number one, none of us




 9  would have to be here tonight if you guys,  OSM, DEP,




10  EPA,  Corps of Engineers — to an extent, Fish




11  & Wildlife — did your jobs and enforced the




12  regulations that we have now.  We have wasted $8




13  million because you guys have let the coal industry




14  do basically what they wanted since probably the dawn




15  of time, certainly before I was on this planet.




16               Number two:  For you coal guys, I have




17  heard several of you speaking during the break, I am




18  happy to provide your evening's entertainment.  I




19  know you think this is a big joke, and that we are




20  just here for you to laugh at, but just remember, to




21  us, this is deadly serious.  And in the end, we will




22  win,  because we have better t-shirts than you do.




23               Thank you.




24               MR. CHAIRMAN:   Denise Giardina.  And

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                                                     142




 1  then after Denise,  will be Jason Bostic.




 2               MS.  GIARDINA:  I am Denise Giardina.  I




 3  grew up in the coal fields.   I live now in




 4  Charleston.




 5               I am a lay preacher in the Episcopal




 6  Church, so this will be a sermon.




 7               I have no illusions about the nature of




 8  this hearing.  It is not a hearing where no one is




 9  listening.




10               My apologies to you folks.  I should




11  say, no one with any power is listening.  If you had




12  any power you wouldn't be here.




13               This gathering is like a show trial in




14  the Stalin Soviet Union.  Judgment against the




15  mountains has already been pronounced and we are just




16  going through the motions.




17               The Bush Administration has every




18  intention of allowing the continued destruction of




19  the Appalachian mountains.




20               And let me point out in fairness, that




21  when I say the Bush Administration, I also mean the




22  Clinton Administration before it, and the first Bush




23  Administration, and the Reagan Administration.




24               I have come to speak despite the

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                                                     143




 1  scepticism, because I am called as a Christian to




 2  speak a word of truth to power.




 3               I know that most of the power has left




 4  the room,  but some of it is still back there, and you




 5  gentlemen are in big trouble, so I hope you listen




 6  carefully.




 7               The coal industry has absolute power, or




 8  so it believes, that God says neither principalities,




 9  nor power, can separate us from his love.  God also




10  told us in Romans that the whole creation will be




11  redeemed.




12               As a Christian,  I am told that I should




13  not judge, and yet God does call me to say that




14  judgment has indeed been pronounced.




15               Repentance is still possible, but living




16  at the expense of others, worshiping money and




17  worrying where it comes from, cursing others with




18  power, destroying God's creation, these are the ways




19  to eternal death.




20               I say this not as a judgment, but as a




21  warning.  The way to eternal  life lies elsewhere.




22               These mountains  were the first God




23  created, and if they dare to  hold a very special




24  place in his heart, I would not be surprised.

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                                                     144




 1               I say this to give comfort to those of




 2  you who also love these mountains, because so often




 3  we despair what has already been lost.




 4               The coal industry is right about one




 5  thing, and only one thing:  These mountains out there




 6  have not been destroyed, these mountains still exist




 7  in the mind of God.




 8               And God will restore them, as only God




 9  can.




10               To claim that a coal company could put




11  back God's handiwork, or that the Government can




12  regulate it, is blasphemy.




13               It is to worship before an idol made of




14  coal.




15               One day, everyone in this room; man,




16  woman and child, will lie under the ground, or be




17  scattered over the earth.




18               My faith tells me that Jesus Christ will




19  return to this earth to judge the living and the




20  dead.   There shall be a new heaven and a new earth.




21               Those who live by the compassion, to




22  care for God's world and its creatures, who have put




23  their trust in God, rather than money, will be raised




24  to new and eternal life.

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                                                     145




 1               Those who have lived life based on




 2  greed, and power and destruction, those who have put




 3  these things ahead of the love of God, and their




 4  fellow human beings, those who destroy God's




 5  creation, or allow it to be destroyed, will die




 6  eternally, they will have only one soul.  And on top




 7  of their graves, will be reborn in all of their




 8  glory, the most beautiful mountains that God ever




 9  created.




10               I close with the words of the Prophet




11  Amos, "For woe he that formath the mountains, and




12  created the wind, and declared unto man what is His




13  thought that maketh the morning darkness, one




14  treadeth upon the highest places of the earth, the




15  Lord, the God, the Host, is his name, and you cannot




16  stand against him."




17               MR. CHAIRMAN:  Jason Bostic.




18               Then after Jason will be Nick Carter.




19               MR. BOSTIC:  Good evening.  I am Jason




20  Bostic, the Regulatory Affairs Specialist for the




21  West Virginia Coal Association.




22               For the record, I am a life-long




23  resident of the coal fields of West Virginia, having




24  spent most of my life on Cabin Creek, West Virginia.

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                                                     146




 1               Like my colleague, Mr. Hamilton, who




 2  spoke to you earlier, I am speaking tonight to urge




 3  the adoption of Alternative 3.




 4               The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers




 5  regulations provide for the issuance of general, or




 6  nationwide permits.   In cases where proposed




 7  activities are similar in nature, and have only




 8  minimal, individual, and cumulative impacts.




 9               The draft EIS finally provides clear and




10  convincing evidence that mining has minimal and




11  temporary impacts, and as such, should qualify for




12  authorization under a nationwide Permit 21 process.




13               For example, the United Technical




14  Studies tell us that if mining were to continue, even




15  without any of the new restrictions proposed, the




16  United states West Virginia will remain one of the




17  most heavily forested states in the nation.




18               Other terrestrial technical studies have




19  found that mining's temporary disturbance to




20  West Virginia's landscape.  It is fostering a diverse




21  bird/animal habitat.




22               Species that are generally declining in




23  this state, are found in abundance on mine sites.  If




24  mining continues at current levels, only 2.5 percent

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                                                     147




 1  of the streams in West Virginia will be impacted by




 2  mining activities.




 3               Again, this assessment assumes that the




 4  guidelines,  and the other measures described in the




 5  EIS,  will never be implemented.




 6               Other technical studies as part of the




 7  EIS,  have also found that valley-fill construction of




 8  mining activities,  from adversely impacting streams.




 9               A macrophyte vertebrate, or bug study,




10  found that streams and valley fills from their




11  headwaters are in good, to very good condition.




12               The same study found that mining




13  activity was not contributing to excessive streambed




14  sedimentation.




15               A chemistry study found that certain




16  mineral constituents, are generally elevated




17  downstream of valley fills.   But according to the bug




18  study that I mentioned earlier, which showed field




19  streams to good, to very good streams, the elevated




20  parameters are not causing an adverse impact.




21               Even more important, as far as the EIS




22  is concerned, is the conclusion that any earth-moving




23  disturbance in central Appalachia will have similar




24  downstream results, because of the very nature and

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                                                     148





 1  geology of the soil in the area.





 2               An additional advantage of Alternative





 3  3,  is that it ensures the maximum level of public





 4  participation in the permitting process.





 5               The Surface Coal Mining and Reclamation





 6  Act is perhaps the most citizen-friendly law in





 7  existence in the United States today.





 8               Further participation in the permitting





 9  process is an inherent theme found throughout both





10  the statute, and the implementing regulations.





11               And finally, Alternative 3, would





12  facilitate an expedited permitting process for mining





13  operations by placing the majority of the





14  decision-making responsibility, with the agency best





15  suited to make those decisions, the SMRCA authority.





16               AUDIENCE MEMBER:  We can't hear you.





17               AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Time.





18               MR. BOSTIC:  I can do it again.





19               Thank you.





20               MR. CHAIRMAN:  Nick Carter.  Then after





21  Nick Carter will be John Taylor.





22               Is Nick Carter here?





23               (No response.)





24               MR. CHAIRMAN:  He spoke earlier, he did.

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                                                     149




 1               John Taylor?




 2               Then after John will be Fred Sampson.




 3               MR. TAYLOR:  John Taylor.   Resident of




 4  Rand,  Kanawha County, West Virginia.  I am a board




 5  member of the Ohio Valley Environmental Council and




 6  also the West Virginia Environment Council.




 7               You all are the daddy's and mama' s of




 8  this -- I guess this is your vision.  But after




 9  reading it and listening, I have to quote from Hank




10  Williams, Jr., "If this is the Promised Land, I have




11  had all that I can stand."




12               Let me pick up a theme that some of the




13  brothers and sisters have talked about, and that is




14  creation and spirituality, and so forth.




15               The last speaker talked about the Book




16  of Amos.  One of my favorite books.  And one of the




17  quotes from there is, "Woe to those who are at ease




18  in Zion."




19               You all are at ease in Zion.




20               Waters of righteousness will pour down




21  over you.




22               I want to talk about some things that




23  are all written in a book.  First, we will talk about




24  the creation as described in the first two chapters

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                                                     150




 1  of the Book of Genesis.




 2               You all know this, you go to Sunday




 3  School, church.  It says, God created everything,




 4  found it good.  In fact, God found it very good.  And




 5  there is mention explicitly of mountains.




 6               The destruction of mountaintop removal




 7  coal mining, I hope you all have seen it.   I hope you




 8  all understand that each blast is 30 times bigger




 9  than the blast that took out the courthouse in




10  Oklahoma City.




11               You do know that, don't you?  I mean,




12  you did write this.




13               Paul tells us in Galatians, Chapter XI,




14  Verse XII.   "God is not mocked."




15               God is not mocked.




16               What you all are doing, or approving of,




17  is a mockery of God's creation.  You will reap what




18  you sow.




19               Chris Hamilton, and Mr. Bostic told us




20  that this will reap dollars in tourism, and other




21  commercial benefits.




22               I am sorry, Chris, I thought you had




23  more depth to you.  We are sowing -- you are not




24  going to harvest dollars from tourism.  What do you

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                                                     151





 1  think,  do you think they will come to look at it?





 2               We are going to reap — we are reaping





 3  bare dirt,  dry rocks,  water that is previously





 4  befouled, barren soil, floods; that is what we will





 5  reap.   Because of what is being sowed here.





 6               God is not mocked.





 7               That is what I have to say.





 8               AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Amen.





 9               MR. CHAIRMAN:  Fred Sampson.  Then the





10  next speaker is Leon Miller.





11               MR. SAMPSON:  Fred Sampson.  Clay





12  County.





13               We will soon have a 1,734.08 mountaintop





14  removal  line up in Clay County.  Where there has





15  already  been approximately 30,000 acres in Clay and





16  Mingo County, Nicholas County that has been torn up





17  by surface mining.





18               I am totally opposed to the method of





19  mountaintop removal mining.  This EIS seems to be a





20  sham in  that it tells about all of the devastation





21  caused by mountaintop removal mining.  And yet there





22  are alternatives that they are going to let it





23  continue.  That is not consistent.





24               We expect our Federal agencies and our

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                                                     152




 1  state agencies to be consistent.  We also, citizens




 2  of West Virginia, believe in holding folks




 3  responsible.




 4               You all are responsible and so you will




 5  be held responsible.




 6               West Virginians are provided by our




 7  Constitution, the right to pursue life, liberty and




 8  happiness, without fear of:  a., having their houses




 9  blown off their foundations; b., having their water




10  supply destroyed; c., children unable to play in




11  yards, due to blasting be allowed within 700 feet of




12  a home, yet no miner with a hard hat, is allowed




13  within 1,000 feet of blasting; d., flooding washing




14  away all of our possessions, as well as human life;




15  e., fear of all of the above.




16               Fear, being the most important.




17               If you have ever lived with fear,  you




18  know what I am talking about.  If you haven't lived




19  with fear, you should sometimes be afraid.




20               Previous speakers have told you why.




21               The EIS calls for more protection that




22  the current administration and King Coal has.




23               Where will us citizens get the full




24  level of protection promised in our National

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                                                     153




 1  Constitution.  We asked you all to do it.




 2               We expect it from you.




 3               Any mine this large, as large as this




 4  one involved, should be allowed within 100-feet




 5  buffer zone of our streams, and should not be




 6  allowed.




 7               Any mining done within 100-foot buffer




 8  zone of streams is illegal, at present, and should




 9  remain illegal.




10               Friends of Coal are here this evening,




11  and the ones that are present, and others, they are




12  friends of death and the destruction, caused during,




13  and after the mining of coal.




14               Coal, when you burn it, goes up into the




15  air, and causes acid rain and asthma, and other




16  things.




17               I am 73-years-old, I carry this at all




18  times because of the air I am breathing.




19               One of the last things that I want to




20  talk about off the top of my head, is that I am




21  totally uncomfortable when I am in flat country. I




22  can't hardly stand western Texas, or Illinois.




23               Mountains are my home, the trees on our




24  mountains are my protection, my comfort.   I don't

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                                                     154




 1  believe that I can live in flat country.  We don't




 2  need anymore flat country here in West Virginia.  We




 3  need to leave the mountains the way they are.




 4               I appreciate you coming.




 5               Thank you.




 6               MR.  CHAIRMAN:  Leon Miller.




 7               Then after Mr. Miller will be




 8  Larry Gardner.




 9               MR.  MILLER:  Hi.  I am Leon Miller.  I




10  am from Ripley,  West Virginia.




11               My home is originally Boone County, my




12  wife's family lives in Lincoln County, right near the




13  Hoebet 21, Massey mine.




14               We have watched them for 20 years,




15  they've worked all the way around us.  We have




16  endured it.




17               And our understanding, the home place




18  was left to my wife's father, and his seven brothers




19  and sisters.  And we understood that it was going to




20  be a meeting place that could never be sold.




21               Well, our family found out something




22  different that we didn't know, so he went to Florida,




23  and he went to Kentucky, and he went to Illinois, and




24  he found people that was willing to sell.

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                                                     155




 1               So I am sure that there is not five




 2  people in this audience other than a coal company,




 3  knows what a partition is.   When they get one -- all




 4  they have to do is get one person to sell,  and then




 5  they can force the rest — they can force it into the




 6  courts,  and then the Judge decides in whose best




 7  interest it is.




 8               Well, they have got two-thirds of it.




 9  The rest of it stood standing.  And we stood still.




10  The fact of the matter is that my wife and I bought




11  it as soon as our cousins were going to sell.  We




12  used our life savings to try to save it.




13               We went through the courts of Lincoln




14  County.   The judge decided that the best use of land




15  was for the coal company.  He didn't consider -- a




16  partition suit is supposed to be, can you divide the




17  land?  We got a mining engineer that did a study, and




18  he concluded that every bit of the coal on the land




19  could be mined,  and we could stay on the 25 acres




20  that were still remaining.




21               The judge decided that was not good, and




22  he thought that we shouldn't really waste anymore of




23  our money pursuing this thing.  We did, and we are.




24  It is in the State Supreme Court; we have used our

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                                                     156




 1  whole life savings working on it.




 2               We don't know whether we are going to




 3  win it or not.  I always thought that if you paid




 4  your taxes and lived right, that life was fair.




 5               Life is not fair.  The coal company and




 6  the big business is running this country.  And they




 7  have ruined this country.




 8               All we need is some help.  We need some




 9  help.  We need some help from you people.  We are all




10  going to live for a while, and you think we are going




11  to live like this forever, but we're not.  One of




12  these days, we are going to answer.




13               I have got to answer for mine, and I




14  don't have to look back too much for my answers.  I




15  hope you don't.




16               Thank you.




17               MR. CHAIRMAN:  Blair Gardner.




18               And then Elaine Purkey.




19               MR. GARDNER:  Mr. Chairman, good




20  evening.  My name is Blair Gardner.  I am an attorney




21  here in Charleston, West Virginia, with the law firm




22  of Jackson & Kelly.




23               I live here in Charleston.  I have




24  resided here for two years.  I have worked on various

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                                                     157




 1  aspects of this document this evening that we are




 2  commenting on.   Both with my present employment, and




 3  previously with my employment with a major coal




 4  company,  that have mining operations here in West




 5  Virginia.




 6               I  do not have prepared remarks.   I can




 7  tell you that I cannot speak with the eloquence of




 8  some of the speakers, such as, Ms. Giardina this




 9  evening.   But I will try to make my remarks at least




10  more temperate  than some that I have heard from




11  members of the  audience.




12               Members of the panel, contrary to what




13  some people here this evening have thought, the EIS,




14  as you know,  is dedicated to a process.   It was not




15  dedicated to an outcome.




16               We have spent four years,  millions of




17  dollars,  I am certain.  We have had a study that I




18  believe I have  been told weighs 38 pounds.




19               Surely, if the process of mining by full




20  extraction method is as destructive as so many people




21  here have described; why would it take so many pages




22  to describe that process?




23               The reason is because it is not




24  destructive in  the way that people have described it.

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                                                     158




 1               We have found two significant,  perhaps,




 2  consequences, of this form of mining that has been




 3  studied.   One,  that there is a change in the




 4  distribution of population of certain insects in




 5  streams below valley fills.




 6               Second, as people have noted,  there is a




 7  difference in the water chemistry.   In some cases, it




 8  does not comply with current Clean Water Act




 9  standards.  That is it.




10               We have spent four years, and millions




11  of dollars to learn what I think people probably knew




12  prior to the time that this  study began.




13               It is time to end the process.   It is




14  time to come to conclusions.  The mining industry in




15  West Virginia has been told  at nauseam is that it is




16  a competitive industry competing not only for the




17  mines,  elsewhere in the region, but elsewhere across




18  the United States.




19               Over the last four years, the industry




20  in this state has been subjected to standards not




21  applied anyplace else in the United States.   The




22  industry is prepared to accept the outcomes of the




23  EIS.




24               We prefer Alternative 3, in terms of the

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                                                     159




 1  process,  but it is time to bring this to a close.




 2  Give the companies that are attempting to mine coal,




 3  clear process and standards that they can meet and




 4  let them get on with the business of mining coal.




 5               As it has already been stated, the




 6  process for permitting mines is open to challenge




 7  repeatedly throughout the process.




 8               If people here this evening, or others,




 9  who oppose it,  do so; they have the opportunity




10  afforded by the law and have been afforded for the




11  last 25 years.




12               One final comment, one of the companies




13  that currently mines coal in West Virginia last month




14  announced that it was making a major investment in




15  acquiring new operations in Wyoming.




16               The amount of money that has been




17  announced in that transaction, is about the amount of




18  money,  I believe, it would take to capitalize the




19  Bruce Fork mine that was closed by the first




20  litigation in Bragg vs. Robinson, that was commenced




21  here in U.S. District Court, back in 1998.




22               I, for one, am disappointed that that




23  investment has gone out west, and not here to West




24  Virginia.

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                                                     160




 1               I have known many, many people here in




 2  the industry in West Virginia, who have worked.  The




 3  one thing that I can observe about all of them is




 4  they want a job, but they want it here in




 5  West Virginia.  Let's bring this process to a close,




 6  and try to accomplish that.




 7               Thank you very much.




 8               MR. CHAIRMAN:  Elaine Purkey.




 9               The next speaker will be Sharon Murphy.




10               MS. PURKEY:  My name is Elaine Purkey,




11  and I am from Lincoln County, West Virginia.




12               I would like to answer one of the




13  questions that he just asked.  What if we spent four




14  years,  and millions of dollars doing?  Trying to call




15  a pure hell, heaven, that is exactly what we have




16  tried to do.




17               That is what it was set out to do it was




18  trying to call mountaintop removal something that it




19  wasn't, and they have tried it they have done it four




20  years.   It was supposed to have been two years, and




21  they changed it to four.




22               On paper it looks real good.  The facts




23  look real good on paper, but all of these people down




24  here are living proof that it does not work.  What is

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                                                     161




 1  on that paper does not work.




 2               They are living in the hell that those




 3  numbers on the paper create every day.   And they fear




 4  for their lives every day.




 5               I did not come here to say that, but I




 6  do want to say that I do disagree with — I want to




 7  vote against — if there is any such thing as




 8  voting -- active Alternative 3.  And my reason for it




 9  is because the coal industry is for it, and my 33




10  years of experience with mining, is that if anything




11  is good for the industry, it is bad for the people.




12               I was asked to come here to sing a




13  song.  I know that you have heard poems and stuff.  I




14  wrote the song for Larry Gibson.  And I want to give




15  this song to -- in addition to him, to Frieda




16  Williams, the people at Coal River Mountain Watch,




17  and all of you other people out there who really,




18  really, believe that we are the keepers of our




19  mountains.




20               And now, since you people are here,




21  supposedly doing the job that Janet read — or one of




22  the other ladies read — that you are supposed to be




23  doing, you are the keepers  of the mountains, too, and




24  this is a message that we the people have for the

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                                                     162




 1  industry, and anybody else who comes in here to rape




 2  West Virginia.




 3               "In southern West Virginia.




 4               The place where I was born.




 5               There's something evil happening.




 6               There's something evil going on.




 7               They are tearing up our mountains.




 8               They are taking away our hills.




 9               They are taking all of our homeland,




10               and making valley fields.




11               When will they stop this destruction?




12               Oh, when will they ever leave?




13               Just go back to where they came from,




14               let us live in our mountains




15               and be free.




16               We are the keepers of the mountains.




17               As Larry Gibson has said,




18               Love em, leave em, but I warn you,




19               Don't destroy them,




20               or leave them for dead.




21               Cause we will hunt you down




22               like outlaws.




23               We will expose you for what you are.




24               Greedy, thieving murderers,

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                                                     163




 1               who buy and sell our law-making liars.




 2               Now the moral of my story,




 3               Just listen to what I say.




 4               We will protect our home,




 5               our mountains,




 6               you can do the same,




 7               or you had better stay away."




 8               Thank you.




 9               MR. CHAIRMAN:  Sharon Murphy.




10               Then after Sharon it will be Maria




11  Pitzer.




12               MS. MURPHY:  Hello.  My name is




13  Sharon Murphy,  and I live in Scot Depot,




14  West Virginia.




15               And I just wanted to say that I am from




16  a third generation of coal mining.  Like my father




17  and grandfather, we had to go underground.  Due to




18  education and technology, my job deals with computer




19  drafting.




20               With that job, I have worked for the




21  coal companies  for about 14 years.  In that time,




22  I worked mainly in the engineering department.




23               I  know firsthand that the coal industry




24  is the only one that is required to provide a service

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                                                     164




 1  long after they are through with their jobs.  The




 2  service is called reclamation.  Something that we




 3  have not heard much about here tonight.




 4               Before we get a permit approved, we have




 5  to submit a permit application.  In that application,




 6  there is one thing called a Planting Plan, and that




 7  must be approved by all State agencies.




 8               In that plan, it tells us what kind of




 9  trees that we can plant,  how many of these species we




10  must plant, what kind of grass mixture we must seed,




11  and et cetera.




12               Our water discharge is regulated through




13  anti-depth, and TMDL laws.  Some of the most current




14  laws, are Contemporaneous Reclamation, that requires




15  us to reclaim closer to the actual mining, and that




16  in turn, decreases the amount of disturbed land, at




17  any one given time.




18               Our valley-fill sizes have been




19  decreased by more stringent AOC Standards, which is




20  Approximate Original Contour Standards.  We must




21  comply with SMRCA regulations, which stands for




22  Surface Water Runoff Analysis.  That means that there




23  cannot be more runoff during, or after that mining




24  process than what was recorded before that mining

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                                                     165




 1  began.




 2               With these many facts and all of the




 3  State and Federal regulatory agencies that monitor us




 4  every day,  how can the people here assume that we are




 5  not environmentally safe.




 6               One other thing I would like to state is




 7  that I  currently live in Putnam County.   I have only




 8  been there four years.  I  was born and raised in




 9  southern West Virginia, and I know firsthand about




10  the rugged terrain.  I know about the brush, I know




11  about the briar thickets that are there.




12               I witnessed a surface mine that came




13  into our area, they created jobs, they told us we had




14  30 years of mining there,  but because of your-all's




15  regulations,  and because the small profit margins




16  that company made, I was laid off after three years.




17               I had to pull my kids out of that




18  community,  start them in a new school, and start a




19  new life in this Putnam County.




20               Yes, it was hard to leave my family, but




21  I didn't have a choice.  But you know what?  We




22  should never sacrifice environmental safety for




23  economic growth.




24               I go back and visit my family every

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                                                     166




 1  chance I get.  They are an hour and a half from




 2  Charleston, over an hour from Huntington, and there




 3  is nothing there for recreation except that surface




 4  mine that was left.




 5               Today there has been people who have




 6  purchased land on that surface mine from that coal




 7  company.  They have built homes, pasture fields full




 8  of cattle, full of horses.  We ride 4-wheelers.  I




 9  horseback ride on the hollows, every chance I get.




10  We snow sleigh ride in the wintertime.




11               Now, that is the devastation that these




12  people want you to feel like that we are doing.




13               I am here to say that I want to work.  I




14  want to provide for my family, and I want to continue




15  to live in this state.  That is all I ask you all to




16  give.




17               I help pay the taxes that give you




18  your-all's jobs, base those jobs on facts and




19  statistics, and not the emotion that is out there in




20  this room tonight.




21               That is all I am asking.




22               Thank you for your time.




23               MR. CHAIRMAN:  Maria Pitzer.




24               Then after Maria, will be John Barrett.

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                                                     167




 1               MS. PITZER:  Sharon, you need to come to




 2  my house.




 3               My name is Maria Pitzer.  I am from




 4  Boone County, West Virginia.




 5               I have two children, a 12-year-old boy,




 6  and a 9-year-old girl.




 7               MR. CHAIRMAN:  Please speak into the




 8  mic.




 9               MS. PITZER:  We are from Bob White in




10  Boone County, West Virginia.  I have two children, a




11  9-year old girl, and a 12-year-old boy.




12               We are against mountaintop removal.  We




13  are a family that lives in the constant shadows of




14  mountaintop removal valley fills and slurry ponds.




15               The mining around us has destroyed our




16  quality of life.  The blasting from the mines is a




17  constant reminder of why our lives have changed so




18  much.  My children are not allowed to play in the




19  water that runs through our property, because the




20  pond is running straight into it.




21               The aquatic life in this stream is all




22  but gone.   Catching fish — or catching bait, or




23  fishing, is a waste of time.   Now there isn't




24  anything to catch.

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                                                     168




 1               Who can say with the upmost certainty




 2  that this will not endanger my children' health?




 3  You, the panel of people that say that what the mine




 4  companies are doing is okay?  You have not yet been a




 5  trustworthy source, at all.




 6               I have lived on this same property for




 7  35 years, in the same town, with the same people.




 8  And they are all saying the same thing, mountaintop




 9  removal is going to run us out.




10               We were flooded in 2001, three times.




11  In 2002, we were flooded again.




12               In 2003, we were flooded horribly.




13               The storms was what the mine companies




14  called once in a 100-year of storms.  I heard it was




15  an act of God.  That is like saying that the Buffalo




16  Flood was an act of God.




17               I remember when I was a child, it rained




18  until I was running in water to my knees in the same




19  yard that washed in.  The very,  identical, same yard,




20  35 years ago.  Same amount of water.




21               Why didn't these catastrophic floods




22  happen then?  Why are they happening now?




23               Mountaintop removal is why.




24               If you poured water onto a rock, it is

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                                                     169




 1  going to roll off.  If you pour it into dirt, it is




 2  going to absorb.  Common sense tells me that.




 3               The flood on June 16th, ruined our




 4  life.  The rains came down the hollow, coming through




 5  our property.  It rose so fast that we didn't have a




 6  chance to get away from it.   We were trapped in every




 7  direction.




 8               The river running by me was still clear




 9  and the hollow washing into this river was raging.




10               I was being flooded by a stream that




11  three years ago, before this stripping started, I




12  could step over.




13               Within three hours after it started




14  raining, I had lost everything that I had.  The mud




15  slide tore through my barn,  my orchard of fruit




16  trees, with one of my dogs tide out.  The water and




17  mud came so fast, that I didn't get a chance to get




18  my dogs out.   My dog, of eight years, died.  A




19  horrible death, might I add.




20               As the water continued down and filled




21  five-foot culvert that had just recently been put in




22  in 2001, this was in there from 1981, until 2001, a




23  three-foot culvert.  When we replaced it, we replaced




24  it with a five-foot culvert thinking that this would

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                                                     170




 1  help.




 2               The mud slide came in, it plugged up the




 3  five-foot culvert,  and the water washed around the




 4  five-foot culvert.   It took out my septic system, it




 5  took out my access,  it took out my water, it took my




 6  yard,  it took my driveway; it took everything.




 7               Okay.   It did stop 20-feet short of my




 8  house.   I have sinkholes around my house that you




 9  could fit a 50-gallon barrel down in.




10               As of right now, my house is okay.   My




11  home,  when I look out my window, it is destroyed.




12               Our life, as we have always known it, is




13  now nonexistent.  Hikes through our own property, is




14  now unsafe, due to the mining breaks,  and slides,




15  coming in behind us.




16               The heritage that I had grown up




17  knowing, will no longer be passed on.   It is not




18  there to pass on; it is being destroyed with each




19  blast.




20               Everyone who has had a hand in allowing




21  this mine practice to continue is guilty of allowing




22  the heritage of the people of the State of West




23  Virginia to be just wiped out, faded away.  If that




24  is okay with you.  That is not okay with me by no

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                                                     171




 1  means.




 2               I am of Cherokee nationality, and we




 3  have always been taught to live off of the land.




 4               MR. CHAIRMAN:  You are out of time.




 5               MS. PITZER:  Okay.  I have one more




 6  statement:  If you can sleep with yourselves, then I




 7  ain't got no choice but to stay up with the storm, do




 8  I?




 9               Thank you for destroying mine and my




10  children's life.




11               MR. CHAIRMAN:  John Barrett.  Then after




12  John will be Lisa Millimet.




13               MR. BARRETT:   Thank you.  My name is




14  John Barrett, and I am a lawyer here in Charleston




15  and I am with the Appalachian Center for the Economy




16  and the Environment, and I am making this statement




17  on behalf of the Center.




18               When we settled the Bragg case in 1998,




19  the Federal agencies promised to perform a




20  comprehensive EIS, that would show the environmental




21  and economic impact of MTR, and propose alternatives




22  to MTR.




23               Incredibly, nearly five years later, the




24  agencies have produced a draft document that

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                                                     172




 1  demonstrates the devastating environmental impacts of




 2  mountaintop removal,  while simultaneously proposing




 3  to make permits for these mines easier to receive.




 4               These agencies appear to be operating in




 5  an environment where they believe they are beyond




 6  accountability.




 7               The draft EIS audaciously tells us that




 8  down is up, and up is down, and dares the public to




 9  challenge them.




10               The Bush Administration has done its




11  best to undermine the good science and economic




12  analysis that was performed by scientists and




13  economists.




14               When the Clinton Administration started




15  the EIS process, it was by no means slanted towards




16  environmental interests.




17               Indeed,  many in the environment of the




18  community did not want to settle the Bragg lawsuit,




19  because they didn't trust the Clinton Administration




20  to stand up to the coal industry in West Virginia.




21               Little did we know then just how bold




22  the Bush Administration would be in its attempt to




23  warp the scientific and economic analysis in favor of




24  the coal industry.

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                                                     173




 1               A draft EIS is a dishonest document.




 2  Those who wrote it are motivated not by science, or




 3  the desire to complete a thorough economic analysis




 4  of MTR.   Instead,  they are motivated by the coal




 5  industry.




 6               For instance, we understand that Steven




 7  Guiles,  Deputy Secretary of the Department of the




 8  Interior, played a significant role in the design of




 9  the document.




10               Mr. Guiles is a former, and no doubt




11  future,  coal industry lobbyist.  He should have




12  recused himself from the process based upon its




13  conflict of interest.




14               We move beyond the point where the




15  administration is  influenced by coal industry




16  lobbyists.  The Bush Administration coal regulators




17  are the coal industry.




18               The destructive effects of mountaintop




19  removal coal mining are well documented in the over




20  30 scientific studies contained in the draft EIS.




21               So, it is astounding that the draft EIS




22  proposes not only to allow more of this destruction,




23  but also to make it easier for the coal industry to




24  continue to destroy the environment, and the economy

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                                                     174




 1  of central Appalachian.




 2               The draft EIS misrepresents the adverse




 3  economic impacts, the environmental impact, of a




 4  mountaintop removal operation.  Attempts to skirt the




 5  clear requirements of NEPA, and willfully excludes




 6  and ignores the economic evidence that support




 7  stricter environmental controls.




 8               The studies clearly demonstrate that




 9  mountaintop removal valley-fill coal mining is




10  already caused extensive ecological harm.




11               A few of these harms include impacts to




12  an estimated 11.5 percent of the region's forests,




13  which are the most diverse and valuable hardwood




14  forests in the world.




15               Fundamental damage to the terrestrial




16  environment that would prohibit the growth of mature




17  forests for 100 years, or more.




18               Buried or damaged over 1,200 miles of




19  streams.




20               MTR operations spew selenium into the




21  region's rivers and streams at toxic levels.




22               MTR causes headwater streams to lose




23  their abilities to maintain their nutrient cycling.




24               MTR adversely impacts the total aquatic,

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 1  genetic diversity of the nation.




 2               MTR harms 244 vertebrate-wildlife




 3  species due to loss of forests.




 4               MTR causes ecologically significant loss




 5  of breeding habitats for three-fourths of the




 6  interior bird species.




 7               MTR increases the severity of dangerous




 8  flooding that would damage personal property and




 9  communities downstream from mountaintop removal coal




10  mining.




11               These facts substantiate what citizens




12  have long known mountaintop removal coal mining is




13  devastating to the environment, and to the




14  communities in the coal fields.




15               I am running out of time.




16               The document violates NEPA.  The EIS




17  does not include a reasonable range of alternatives.




18  NEPA requires that an EIS rigorously explore, and




19  objectively evaluate, all reasonable alternatives.




20               In addition, the EIS does not present




21  valid reasons for the elimination of proposed




22  alternatives from detailed analysis.




23               The EIS assumes that changing the stream




24  buffer-zone rule is part of even the "No Action"

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                                                     176




 1  Alternative.   The EIS fails to address, or remedy




 2  violations of the Clean Water Act.




 3               The EIS must remedy violations for




 4  selenium pollution.




 5               The EIS cannot legally adopt any




 6  alternative that would allow the use of nationwide




 7  permits.




 8               Thank you.




 9               MR. CHAIRMAN:   You are out of time, sir.




10               MR. BARRETT:  Thank you.




11               MR. CHAIRMAN:   Next speaker is Lisa




12  Millimet.  And then the following speaker after that




13  would be Bill McCabe.




14               MS. MILLIMET:   Good evening.  I didn't




15  mean to speak here.   I didn't even mean to come here




16  tonight.   I am visiting a friend in Sutton.




17               My name is Lisa Millimet,  and I am a




18  filmmaker, and a writer, and a documentarian from New




19  Hampshire.




20               I just want to say thank God for the




21  emotion in this room.




22               I think everybody sitting out here knows




23  that this could never happen in a town like I come




24  from.

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                                                     177




 1               You all would have been run out on a




 2  rail.   You would never have been allowed into my




 3  town.




 4               Because I live in a town with money, and




 5  so-called education, and no history of exploitation.




 6  And I  thank the people all in these seats, and I give




 7  you my incredible and full respect and empathy.




 8               Know that this is because West Virginia




 9  has been being raped for over 100 years.  If you




10  study  the history of West Virginia, you will




11  understand that.




12               I live in the town Leonard Bernstein




13  wrote  "Westside Story" in, and a playwright wrote




14  "Our Town" about George Wilder.




15               It is a rich town.  It is a town where




16  people are educated and have organic food.  West




17  Virginia's so-called poor, and ignorant.




18               But I will tell you, I have been coming




19  to this state for 35 years, and the finest people




20  that I have ever met have been in West Virginia.




21               I have been writing a book about West




22  Virginia and the last of the old-time mountain people




23  for 8  years, and it is going to be published next




24  year.   And I made a short documentary for Larry

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                                                     178




 1  Gibson about mountaintop removal.




 2               I was run off and threatened with my




 3  life on that mountain, and I was run off at 70 miles




 4  an hour,  doan 11 miles of a mountain.  And it has




 5  effectively ended that documentary.  Because, I don't




 6  want to die for this, to tell you the truth.




 7               I will just say that in my travels




 8  around the states in my 35 years, in my documentary




 9  work in this wonderful state, almost invariably




10  everyone has told me, all of the people in the




11  hollows,  the mountains, the cities and the towns,




12  that they are against mountaintop removal.




13               The thing that I noticed that I want to




14  share with all of you, whether you have any power or




15  not, I want it said for the record, that like the




16  Vietnam War, and so many people from West Virginia,




17  were valiant to fight in that war.  But like that




18  war, this will be stopped.




19               And it is not because of the emotion




20  only, it is because that is what happens.  That is




21  what happens when people are exploited.  You can only




22  keep them down so long.




23               And it is not a question of religion, or




24  my opinions, that is what happens.

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                                                     179




 1               The people will rise up, many of these




 2  mountains will be gone, many of the people in this




 3  room will be dead by the time it is stopped, but it




 4  will stop.  And you would be wise,  you would be wise




 5  to pay attention to the people that I hear in and out




 6  of this state.




 7               I have shown my film around the country,




 8  and there will be critical mass at some point.




 9               It is money.  It is business, as usual,




10  and it is disgusting.




11               MR. CHAIRMAN:  Bill McCabe.




12               MR. McCABE:  I am Bill McCabe.  I  am the




13  Appalachian organizer for Citizens Coal Council, and




14  I am speaking for Citizens Coal Council,  at least the




15  initial part of my remarks.




16               I was talking with a fellow the other




17  day in Kentucky, who made a comment that really




18  struck home to me.  He said, it doesn't seem to




19  matter what we expect from the Government, they




20  successfully score beneath our expectations.




21               Congratulations, you all have done it




22  again.




23               The CCC leaders, and our membership




24  groups, were not naive enough to hope that the  draft

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                                                     180




 1  EIS would tell the truth,  that mountaintop removal




 2  and valley fill is simply too destructive to be




 3  allowed to be considered a responsible way to mine.




 4               It may be the cheapest for the




 5  companies, but it is environmentally,  socially,




 6  psychologically, and,  yes, economically — it is




 7  simply too expensive to allow it to continue.




 8               Even though CCC never expected a




 9  truthful analysis, we were enough of Americans, and




10  probably naive enough to believe that we could trust




11  our government when they negotiated with us.  When




12  they promised to conduct a study that would be




13  thorough and effective.  When they negotiated and




14  promised that the studies would look at ways to




15  reduce the damage.




16               Again, you underachieved.




17               Your research was so contradictory to




18  President Bush's agenda, or probably to Bill Rainey,




19  and the economists agenda, that some of the most




20  important fact sources and analysis were simply




21  ignored.




22               I apologize,  one of the advantages of




23  being last is that you are going to expect some




24  applause because you are last, and people get to go

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                                                     181




 1  home,  but the disadvantage of going last is that many




 2  of the comments that you worked hard to make,  have




 3  already been made.   It just points out the importance




 4  of these comments.




 5               It is  simply beyond my comprehension how




 6  a group of highly paid bureaucrats can write a report




 7  that simply does not have any logic to it.




 8               Your science says one thing,  and your




 9  conclusions say another.  Well, I am not sure for CCC




10  and our member groups why we bother.  Probably




11  because we are organizers and eternal optimists.  So




12  I would simply suggest a fourth option.




13               That option is to enforce the laws that




14  have existed for 25 years.  Strictly enforce the




15  laws,  and if you do that, there will be no




16  mountaintop removal, because it will be too expensive




17  to use that method.




18               The remainder of my time I would like to




19  use to speak individually, and have that reflected.




20               A lot  of my family has been in West




21  Virginia — as many people have mentioned — a long




22  time.




23               Growing up, I had the privilege to




24  travel the country, and whether it was California, or

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                                                     182




 1  New York, or South Carolina, I was always the poor,




 2  dumbass hillbilly, because I was from West Virginia.




 3               But being stubborn, that didn't bother




 4  me.  I have always been proud to be a West Virginian.




 5  I have always been proud to be from the mountains of




 6  Appalachia.  But never, never, have I been so proud




 7  of so many people who spoke so eloquently and so




 8  bravely against this horrible bunch of crap.




 9               Thank you.




10               MR. CHAIRMAN:  I would like to thank




11  each of you for coming this evening and presenting




12  your comments.




13               I  have no more cards, no more speakers.




14               But if you do have comments that you




15  would like to make, remember we have the comment box




16  out back.  The  written comment period does not close




17  until August 29th.  So you will still have time to




18  submit those if you like.




19               Thank you all for coming this evening.




20  Please be careful going home.




21               Thank you.




22               (Public hearing concluded.)




23




24

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                                                     183

 1  STATE OF WEST VIRGINIA,  To-wit:

 2         I, Michele G.  Hankins,  a Notary Public and

 3  Court Reporter within and for the State aforesaid,  do

 4  hereby certify that the hearing was taken by me and

 5  before me at the time and place specified in the

 6  caption hereof.

 7         I do further certify that the hearing was

 8  correctly taken by me in stenotype notes, that the

 9  same was accurately transcribed out in full and

10  reduced to typewriting,  and that said transcript is a

11  true record of the testimony.

12         I further certify that I am neither attorney

13  or counsel for, nor related to or employed by, any of

14  the parties to the action in which these proceedings

15  were had, and further I am not a relative or employee

16  of any attorney or counsel employed by the parties

17  hereto or financially interested in the action.

18         My commission expires the 29th day of December

19  2003.

20         Given under my hand and seal this 28th day of

21  August.

22
23                          Michele G.  Hankins
                            Notary Public
24                          Court Reporter

-------