TRANSCRIPT


                          Public Hearing

                         on Proposed Rules

         for Notification .of Hazardous Waste Activities

                  August 18, 1978,  Cleveland, Ohio
      This hearing was sponsored by EPA,  Office of Solid Waste,
and the proceedings (SW-44p)  are reproduced entirely as  transcribed
       by the official reporter, with handwritten  corrections.
                U.S.  ENVIRONMENTAL  PROTECTION AGENCY
                                1978

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1   PANEL  MEMBERS:

2           Jack  Lehman,  Director
            Hazardous  Waste Management Division
3           EPA
            Washington,
4
            Joe Boyle
5           Region  V
            Air and Hazardous Materials Division
6
            Bill  Sanjour, Chief
7           Assessment &  Technology Branch
            Hazardous  Waste Management Division

            Tim Fields,  Program Manager
9           Technology Program
            Hazardous  Waste Management Division
10
            Bill  Snyder
            Technology Program
            Hazardous  Waste Management Division
12
            Amy Schaffer
13           Office  of  Enforcement
            EPA
14
            AnnAllen,  Attorney
15           Management and Information Staff
            OSW,  EPA
16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

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 1                        PROCEEDINGS




 2                    MR.  LEHMAN:       Good  afternoon,




 3    ladies and  gentlemen.   I  am  Jack Lehman,  Director




 4    of the Hazardous Waste  Management Division in EPA's




     Office of Solid  Waste  in  Washington, D.C..",




                     I would like to  welcome you to EPA's




     first public  hearing on the  Proposed Regulations  for




 8    Preliminary Notification  of  Hazardous  Waste Activities




 9    under Section 3010 of  the Resource Conservation and




10    Recovery Act  of  1976.




11                    I would like to  introduce the Panel




12    members to  you now.  They are composed of members of




13    OSW's Hazardous  Waste  Management Division and Manage-




14    ment and Information Staff,  the  Office of Enforcement




15    in Washington, p.C,,  ,  and a  representative of EPA's




16    Region V office  in Chicago.   These people specialize



17    in certain  subject areas  related to this issue.  The




     Panel is as follows:



19                    On my  right, Bill Sanjour, Chief,




20    Assessment  and Technology Branch, Hazardous Waste




91    Management  Division, OSW.




,„                    Next is Amy  Schaffer,  Toxic Substances




2g    Branch, Pesticides and Toxic Substances Enforcement




,4    Division, Office of Enforcement.




                     On my  le£"t   is Tim Fields, Program

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                                                       4

     Manager,  Technology  Program,  Assessment and Technology

     Branch,  Hazardous  Waste  Management Division,  OSW and

     principal author of  the  3010  Regulations.
 3

                    Next is  Bill  Snyder,  Environmental

     Protection Specialist,  Technology Program,  Assessment
 5

     and  Technology Branch,  HWMD,  OSW.
 6

                    Last but not  least,  Ann Allen,
 7

     attorney/adviser.  Management  and Information staff,
 8

     OSW.
 9
                    The  Resource  Conservation  and Recovery
10
     Act  of  1976 amended  the  Solid Haste Disposal Act.
11
     It includes a  new  Section 3010,  which provides  in
12
     Subsection (a), and  I quote:
13
                     "Section 3010.  (a) Preliminary
14
     Notification.   Not later than 90 days after promulga-
15
     tion or  revision of  regulations  under Section 3001
16
     identifying by its characteristics or listing any
17
     substance as hazardous waste  subject to this subtitle,
18
     any  person generating or transporting such substance
19
     or owning or operating a facility for treatment,
20
     storage,  or disposal of  such  substance shall file
21
     with the  Administrator (or with  States having author-
22
     ized hazardous waste permit programs under Section
23
     3006) a  notification stating  the location  and general
24
     description of  such activity and  the identified  or
25

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                                                      5


     listed hazardous wastes handled by such person.  Not

 2
     more than one such notification shall be required to

 3
     be filed with respect to the same substance.  No

 4
     identified or listed hazardous waste subject to this


     subtitle may be transported, treated, stored, or dis-


     posed of unless notification has been given as


     required under this subsection."

 O
                     EPA proposed regulations to implement


 9    this section of the Act in the Federal Register


10    on July 11, 1978.  Copies of the proposed regulations


11    and the Act are available on the table at the back of


12    the room.  I am also submitting a copy of the proposed


13    regulations for the record.


14                    These proposed rules specify who must


15    file notification of hazardous waste activities,


16    when and where notification must be filed, and what


17    information such notification must contain.  A sample


18    of the form suggested for use in this process is


19    also included.


20                    These proposed rules also contain


21    provisions whereby states may obtain authorization


22    to receive and manage this initial notification program


23                    The Resource Conservation and Recovery


24    Act of 1976 provides that regulations shall be


95    promulgated only after notice and opportunity for

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                                                      6



 1    public hearings.   So let me now lay the groundwork




 2    and rules for the conduct of this hearing.




 3                    The focus of a public hearing is on




     the public's response to a regulatory proposal of the




     Agency.    The purpose of this hearing, as announced




     in the July 11,  1978 Federal Register, is to solicit




     comments on the  proposed regulations, including any




     background information used to develop the regula-




 9    tions.




10                    This public hearing is being held




11    not primarily to inform the public nor to defend a




12    proposed regulation, but more to obtain the public's




13    response to EPA's proposed regulation, and, there-




14    after, revise the regulation as may seem appropriate.




15                    All major substantive comments made




16    at the hearing will J>e addressed at the time of




17    final promulgation.  The anticipated date of final




18    promulgation is  spring 1979.




jg                    This will not be a formal adjudica-




20    tory hearing with the right to cross examination.




     The members of the public are to present their views




     on the proposed regulation to the Panel, and the




,,3    Panel may ask questions of the people presenting




     statemeits to clarify any ambiguities in their presen-




     tations .

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 i                    If any member of the audience wants a



 2    question asked of another member of the public,



 3    he will be allowed to write the question and pass



 4    it to the Panel, at which time the Panel may ask the



 5    question of the appropriate person, and  that person



 6    will be given the opportunity to respond accordingly.



 7                    As you noticed, blank cards are



     available and will be passed out.  So we ask you to



 9    list your questions on these cards, and then the



10    Panel will ask them if they are relevant to the state-



     ments presented.



12                    Due to time limitations, the Chairman



13    reserves the right to limit lengthy questions,



14    discussions or statements.  We would ask that those



15    of you who have prepared statements to make orallyj



16    to please limit your presentation to a maximum of



     10 minutes, so that we can get to all statements in



,„    a reasonable time.  The written statements will be
lo


     included in their entirety in the record.



                     Written prepared statements will be



     accepted at the end of the hearing.  And so,if



     you wish to provide a statement but not present it



     orally, that can be accomplished.
2o


                     Persons wishing to make an oral



     statement who have not made an advance request by

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1   telephone or in writing should indicate their interest
2   on the registration card.  And if you have not indi-
3   cated your intent to give a statement and you decide
4   to do so, please return to the registration table,
5   fill out another card and give it to one of the staff.
6                   As we call upon an individual to make
7   a statement, he should come up to the lectern and,
    after identifying himself for the court reporter,
    deliver his statement.  At the beginning of the state-
    ment, I will inquire as to whether the speaker is
u   willing to entertain questions from the Panel and
12   the audience.  The speaker is under no obligation to
13   do so, although within the spirit of this information
14   sharing meeting, it would be of great assistance to
15   the Agency if questions were permitted.
                    Anyone wishing to make statements
    will have an opportunity to do so, even if we have to
    run the hearing into the evening.  We will recess
18
    for a 15-minute break at about 3:30.  The hearing is
    scheduled to break for dinner at 6:00 p. m., if we
20
    have not concluded before.  The hearing will continue
    into the evening, if necessary.
                    We have a few housekeeping announce-
    ments here.  Our restrooms are out the door to the
24
    right.  Phones are out the door to your left.

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                                                          9



                     Unfortunately, we don't  have  facili-

 2
     ties to take phone messages at our registration  desk.


                     All copies of statements  should  be

 4
     presented to the court reporter who  is located here


     on ray right in the front of the room.


 6                   The smoking section  is on my  right,


     and the nonsmoking section is to my  left.  There  is


 8   water at the rear of the room.


 9                   As I mentioned, a court  reporter  is


 10   present here today.  Statements, questions, and


 11   comments will become part of the public  record,  and


 12   this record will be available for public  inspection


 13   in the docket section, Room 2111, Hazardous Waste


 14   Management Division, Office of Solid Waste, U.S.


 15   Environmental Protection Agency, 401 M Street,


 16   Southwest, Washington, D. C. 20460.  A copy of the


     transcript will be available on request  to all


 18    registrants here today in about two  to three  months.


 19                    Also, I would like to point out  that


20    if you wish to be added to our mailing list for


21    future regulations, draft regulations or  proposed


     regulations, please leave your card  or name and


23    address on a 3 x 5 card at the registration desk.


24                    In addition to the public  hearing


     here in Cleveland today, two other identical  hearings

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    will be held, one in Charleston, South Carolina, on




    August 21st and one in San Francisco, California,
3
4   a statement today may send a written statement to the
5
10





11





12





13





14





15





16





17





18





19





20





21





22





23





24





25
                                                         10
    Thursday, August 24th.  Persons not wishing to deliver
address noted in the Federal Register before the




closing of that docket, which is September 11, 1978.




                Now I would like to turn the hearing




over to Bill Sanjour, who will give you an overview




of the Subtitle C regulations on hazardous waste




management, how they function and how the proposed




regulations for preliminary notification of hazardous




waste activities fit into this framework.




                MR. SANJOUR:     Thank you. Jack.




Before I give you an overview of the interrelation-



ships of the various sections of the Act, please note




that each of the sections I am about to describe is




a separate regulation, and that public hearings will be




held on each of these regulations as it is proposed.





                I would ask that you please keep in




mind that we are here today to address only the pro-




posed Federal regulations defining procedures  for




notification of hazardous waste activities, and proced-




ures whereby states may receive a special authorization




to manage this notification program.




                You will have the opportunity  to

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                                                       11




 1   comment on the other sections of the Act, which deal




 2   with the definition of hazardous wastes and the



 3   detailed standards regarding generation, treatment,




 4   storage, and disposal of these wastes as each of  the




 5   other regulations is proposed.




 6                   Therefore, it would insure the most




 7   effective use of everyone's time here today if you




 8   would mentally review and edit your statements and




 9   questions accordingly in order to minimize the involve-




10   ment of these other sections and to maximize our  focus




11    on the proposed regulations for notification of




12    hazardous waste activities.




13                    Subtitle C of the Solid Waste Disposal




M    Act, as amended by the Resource Conservation and




,g    Recovery Act of 1976, creates a regulatory framework



,„    to control hazardous waste.
lb



17                    Congress has found that such waste



     presents special dangers to health and requires a
18


     greater degree of regulation than does nonhazardous




     solid waste.  Because of the seriousness of this




     problem. Congress intended that the states develop




     programs to control it.  In the event that states




     do not choose to operate this program, EPA is man-




     dated to do so.
24


                     Seven guidelines and regulations  are
25

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                                                         12

 1   being developed and proposed under  Subtitle  C  to

 o
    implement the national hazardous waste management

 o
    regulatory program.


 4                   It is important to  note  that the defini


 5   tion of solid waste in the Act encompasses garbage,


 6   refuse, sludges and other discarded materials,  includ-


 7   ing liquids, semi-solids and contained gases,  with


 8   a few exceptions, from both municipal and industrial


 9   sources.


10                   Hazardous wastes, which  are  a  sub-set


11   of all  solid wastes,and which will  be defined  by


12   regulations under Section 3001, are those which have


13   particularly significant impacts on public health and


14   the environment.


is                   Subtitle C creates  a management con-


16   trol system, which, for those wastes defined as


17   hazardous, requires a cradle-to-grae-s cognizance,


18   including appropriate monitoring, record keeping and


19   reporting throughout the system.


20                   Section 3001 requires EPA to define


21   criteria and methods for identifying and listing


    hazardous wastes.  Wastes identified as  hazardous


    are then included in the management control  system


    constructed under Sections 3002 through.  3006 and


    Section 3010, the section we will be discussing here

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                                                         13


     today.



                     Those that are  excluded will  be  sub-



     ject  to the requirements  for  nonhazardous  solid  waste,



     which are being carried out by  states under Subtitle D,


  5

     under which open dumping  is prohibited and environ-



     mentally acceptable practices are  required.    Section



     3001  regulations should be published as proposed



     rules in December 1978.


  9
                     Section 3002  addresses the standards


 10
     applicable to generators  of hazardous waste.   EPA's



     regulations under this section  describe the classes


 12
     of generators for whom some requirements may  vary;


 13
     for example, the Agency does  not interpret the intent


 14
     of Congress to include regulation  of individual  home



     owners due to small quantities  of  hazardous wastes



 1    which they may generate.



 17                   Section 3002  also  requires the



 18   creation of a manifest system which will track wastes



     from  the point of generation  to their ultimate dis-



 20   position.  Section 3002 should  be  published as a



 21   proposed rule in December 1978.



 22                   Section 3003  addresses standards



 23   affecting transporters of hazardous waste  to  assure



 24   that  the waste is carefully managed during the



25   transport phase.

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                                                        14



                    The Agency explored opportunities for

n
    meshing closely with the proposed and current U.S.


    Department of Transportation regulations to avoid


4   duplication in the transportation area.  Section 3003
5
    regulations were published in the Federal Register
6   as proposed rules on April 28, 1978, and a public


    hearing on them was held on June 20, 1978.  Additional


    hearings will be scheduled in the future.

Q
                    Section 3004 addresses standards


    affecting owners and operators of hazardous waste


11   storage, treatment, and disposal facilities.  These


12   standards define the levels of public health and


13   environmental protection to be achieved by these


14   facilities, and provide the criteria against which


15   EPA will measure applications for permits.


16                   Facilities on a generator's property,


17   as well as off-site facilities, are covered by these


18   regulations, and do require permits; generators and


19   transporters do not otherwise need permits.


20                   I would like to reemphasize that.


21   The only people who require permits are those who


    treat/ store and dispose of hazardous wastes, not


    generators and not transporters, unless they also


    treat, store or dispose.  Section 3004 should be


    published as a proposed rule in December 1978.

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                                                    15






 1                    Section  3005 regulations describe




 2    the scope and coverage of the actual permit granting




 3    process for facility owners and operators.  Require-




 4    ments for the permit application, as well as  for the




 5    issuance and revocation  process, are to be defined




 6    by these regulations.




 7                    It should be noted that Section 3005




 8    (e) provides for an interim status during the  time




 9    period that the Agency or the States are reviewing




10    the pending permit application.




11                    Section  3005 regulations should be




12    published as proposed rules in December 1978.




13                    Section  3006 requires EPA to  issue




14    guidelines for State hazardous waste programs, and




15    procedures by which States may seek both full  and




16    interim authorization to carry out the hazardous



n    waste program in lieu of the EPA-administered  pro-




is    gram.




19                    States seeking authorization  in




20    accordance with Section  3006 guidelines are not



91    required to adopt in entirety all Federal hazardous




92    waste management regulations promulgated under




23    Subtitle C in order to receive EPA authorization.




94                    Such a state regulatory program need




9.    only demonstrate that their hazardous waste management

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                                                        16


 i    regulations are consistent with and equivalent in


 2    effect to these EPA regulations,  and that adequate


 3    enforcement exists, in order to receive EPA


 4    authorization under Section 3006  to operate and


 5    impose a hazardous waste management program.


 6                    Section 3006 guidelines were pub-


 7    lished in the Federal Register as proposed rules


     on February 1,  1978.   Final rules are scheduled to
 o

     be promulgated during December 1978.


                     Section 3010 regulations define


     procedures by which any person generating, transport-


     ing,  owning or operating a facility for storage,


     treatment, and/or disposal of hazardous wastes must
lo

     notify EPA of this activity within 90 days of


     promulgation of the regulations! which define hazardous


     waste, that is, the regulations promulgated under
16

     section 3001.
17

                     EPA has made provision in these
18

     regulations for states to be delegated this notifica-
19

     tion  function upon application to the appropriate
20

     EPA Regional Administrator.  It is significant to
21

     note  that no hazardous waste subject to Subtitle C
22

     regulations may be legally transported, treated,
23

     stored, or disposed unless this timely notification
24

     is given to EPA or a designated state.
25

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                                                          17



                     The Agency intends to propose draft


 2
     regulations during December 1978 for the remaining

 o
     sections of Subtitle C.  Final regulations will be



 4   promulgated in 1979.



                     However, it is important  for the



     regulated communities to understand that  the regula-



 7   tions under Sections 3001 through 3005 do not take



 8   effect until six months after promulgation.



 9                   Thus, there will be a time period afte



10   final promulgation during which public understanding



11   of the regulations can be increased.



12                   During this same period,  notifications



13   required under Section 3010 are to be submitted,



14   facility permit applications required under Section



15   3005 will be distributed for completion by applicants



16   and state programs will be authorized by  EPA.



1"                   Now, for a more detailed  look at



18   the Section 3010 regulations, which we are here



19   today to discuss, I am going to turn the  hearing over



20   to Tim Fields, who will discuss the Section 3010



21    proposed rules in detail.



22                    MR. FIELDS:      Thank you, Bill.




     Section 3010 of RCRA requires that all persons


°4
     generating, transporting, treating, storing or

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                                                   18
 \    disposing of  a hazardous waste which has been iden-
 2    tified or listed in the Section 3001 regulations,
 3    or revisions  thereof,  on the date of their promulga-
 4    tion to notify.
 5                    Persons who initiate such activities
     after the date of promulgation of the Section 3001
     regulations or revision thereof are not required to
     notify pursuant to these rules.
                     However, these new entrants will be
     required to notify EPA or an authorized state of their
     hazardous waste activities pursuant to the Section
12    3002 (generator), 3003  (transporter), and 3005
     (permit)  regulations.
Lo
                     Briefly, this means that persons
14
     who begin to  treat, dispose, or store (for more than
     90 days)  hazardous waste must apply for a permit in
16
     accordance with Section 3005 regulations, and persons
     who generate  and/or transport hazardous waste have
     responsibility for preparing and handling a manifest
     pursuant to  Section 3002 and 3003 regulations,
20
     respectively, which serves to notify EPA or the
     authorized state of such activity.  All new entrants
     will be assigned a unique identification number.
23
                     The statutory intent of these pro-
     posed regulations is to assure that all persons

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                                                    19



     generating, transporting, treating, storing, or

 2
     disposing hazardous wastes identified or listed under

 Q
     Section 3001 regulations notify EPA or an authorized


     state of such activities.


                     The regulations under Sections 3001,


 6    3002, 3003, 3004, and 3005 become effective  180 days


 7    after they are promulgated.  The date of promulgation


 8    of the Section 3001 regulations begins the notifica-


 9    tion period.


10                    This notification period extends for


11    90 days, during which time all persons subject to


12    these regulations must notify either EPA or  an


13    authorized state as specified in these regulations.


14    Within the six-month period following the promulga-


15    tion of Section 3001 regulations, those persons


16    required to obtain a facility permit pursuant to


n    Section 3005 regulations must apply for that permit.


18                    Owners or operators of existing


19    facilities requiring such a permit, who satisfactorily


20    comply with two requirements, these being to notify


21    pursuant to these regulations, and submit an


22    application for a permit, will be qualified  for


23    interim status until a full permit is issued.


24                    Failure to satisfy both of these


25    requirements will jeopardize interim status, and

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                                                    20


    will prevent such persons from legally treating,


    disposing, or storing (for more than 90 days)


    hazardous waste after the six-month period.


                    There are several special cases


    which I would like to bring to your attention.  These


    special cases are as follows:


                    1.  Corporations.  A responsible


    individual of the corporation shall file notification.


9                   (i)   A group of establishments,


10   plants, transportation terminals, etc., located at


11   a single site under  the ownership or operation of one


12   person may file a single notification.

                                         0V-
13                   (ii) A person owning *» operating


14   more than one place  of operation may file a single


    notification for all facilities provided:


                    (a)   All required information is


17   clearly stated separately for each place of operation,



18


19                   (b)  Copies of the pertinent information


20   in this single notification are sent to each EPA


91   Regional Office (or  authorized state) having jurisdic-


    tion over the area in which the places of operation


2S   are located.


,,4                   2.  Highway Transporters.  A respon-


    sible individual shall file notification for each

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                                                       21



     terminal the transporter owns and utilizes  for

 n
     vehicles transporting hazardous wastes.

 o
                     3.  Railroad or Pipeline Companies.


     A responsible individual may file a single  notifica-


     tion for the entire rail line or pipeline,  provided


     that copies of this notification are sent to  each


 7    EPA Regional Office (or authorized state) having


 8    jurisdiction over the area in which the railroad  or


 9    pipeline is located.


10                    4.  Federal agencies conducting


11    hazardous waste activities must comply with all


12    notification requirements in the same manner  as other


13    persons.


14                    5.  These regulations do not  apply


15    to persons who transport hazardous materials  which


16    have been spilled.


17                    Section 3001 regulations will probably


18    be revised from time to time to identify or list


19    additional hazardous waste.  These regulations re-


20    quire that generators, transporters, treaters,


21    storers, and disposers of hazardous waste notify EPA


22    or an authorized state 90 days after such revision.


23                    Those persons who are unaffected  by


24    a revision to Section 3001 regulations need not


25    submit additional notification.  In addition,  persons

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                                                         22





 i    who  are  affectedly  such a revision to Section 3001




 2    regulations  may  also  be required  to apply for either




 3    a  new  or a revised  facility  permit before the revised




 4    Section  3001 regulations become effective (six months




 5    after  promulgation).




 6                    To  reduce the  burden of  notification,




 7    consideration is being  given to allowing those per-




 8    sons who must both  notify and  apply for  a new or a




 9    revised  facility permit to accomplish notification




j0    with their application  for a new  or a revised facility




tl    permit,  provided the  application  is submitted within




12    the  first 90 days after promulgation of  the  revised




13    Section  3001 regulations.




14                    Any person conducting hazardous




     waste  activities at the time of promulgation or
lu



     revision of  Section 3001 regulations who does not
ID


     file notification of  such activity within 90 days



     of the date  of this promulgation  or revision is in
18


     violation of these  notification regulations, and




     may  be subject to the penalties described under




     Section  3008 of  the Act.
21


                     No  hazardous waste may be legally
22


     transported, treated, stored,  or  disposed unless
23


     notification has been made.  It should be noted that

24


     late notification is  a  violation  of Section  301C and

25

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                                                         23




1    subjects such person to possible enforcement action.




2                    Notification must be  filed with  the




3    appropriate EPA Regional Administrator, or state




4    which has been granted authorization  to manage the




5    notification program.




6                    Copies of the pertinent notification




v    information shall be sent to each EPA Regional




    Administrator or designated state agency in which the




9   person's place of operation is located.




10                   AUTHORIZATION OF STATES FO MANAGE




11   THE NOTIFICATION PROGRAM.




12                   These proposed rules  also establish




13   procedures for authorizing states to  manage the




    notification program.  These rules will be promulgated




15   before the Section 3001 regulations are promulgated




    in order to give the states an opportunity to obtain




17   this special authorization before promulgation of the




    Section 3001 regulations starts the 90-day notifica-




19   tion period.




20                   EPA and the authorized states must be




    ready to receive notifications when the Section  3001




,2   regulations are promulgated.  A list  of the names




23   and addresses of state agencies authorized to receive




,4   notifications will be published in the Federal Register




    prior to or at the time of promulgation of the

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                                                   24



     Section  3001  regulations  or  revisions  thereof.

 
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                                                        25



     of the Section 3001 regulations.

 2
                     If a state which has been granted

 Q
     limited interim authorization fails to apply for, or


     receive,  interim or full authorization, EPA must


 5    assume responsibility for managing the subsequent


 6    regulatory requirements of Subtitle C.  This dis-


 7    jointed program administration can create problems,


 8    e.g.,  in efficient processing of applications for


 9    facility permits which are received during the six-


10    month  period following promulgation of the Section


11    3001  regulations.


12                    To minimize such potential problems,


13    these  proposed rules impose requirements upon states


14    in order to obtain this limited interim authorization.


15    These  requirements include the following:


16                    1.  The state must declare its intent


n    to apply for an interim or full authorization pur-


is    suant  to Section 3006 guidelines before or during


19    the 90-day period following the promulgation of the


20    Section 3001 regulations.


21                    2.  The state must agree to provide,


22    upon  EPA request, any information received in


23    response to notification tothe Agency.


24                    3.  The state must provide a plan


25    for making facility permit application forms available

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                                                        26

    to prospective permittees identified in the notifica-

2   tion process.

3                   Further,  the authorized states will

    be encouraged to operate  and manage the notification

    program in the same or an equivalent manner to that

    employed by EPA in order  to achieve as much national

    uniformity as possible.

                    This will simplify the notification

    burden on those persons who may have to notify for

    hazardous waste activities conducted in two or more

    states.  The manner in which the state intends to

    carry out the notification program will be articulated

    in the plan that a state  submits as part of its re-

    quest for limited interim authorization.
14
                    The degree of equivalency with EPA's

    management of the notification process will be one of

    the criteria used by the  EPA Regional Administrator to

    determine whether to grant authorization.
18
                    The state agency has 60 calendar days
19
    from the date of promulgation of these regulations to
20
    apply for limited interim authorization.  If the
21
    Regional Administrator determines that a state applica-

    tion is unsatisfactory, he or she shall inform that
23
    state in writing of the reasons within 15 working days
24
    of receipt  of the application.

-------
                                                         27


                     The Regional Administrator may then

 c\
     allow that state to submit another application within


     15 working days for EPA consideration.


 4                   If the Regional Administrator finds


 5   a state application acceptable, he or she shall


 6   execute an agreement with that state, signed by the


 7   Regional Administrator and an official of the


 8   responsible state agency, granting limited interim


 9   authorization to implement Section 3010 requirements.


10                   All such agreements shall be effective


11   no later than 120 calendar days after promulgation


12   of these preliminary notification regulations and


13   shall terminate on the date six months after promul-


14   gation of the Section 3001 regulations.


15                    HAZARDOUS WASTE DEFINITIONS


16                   If a state is granted interim


17   authorization by EPA to manage the notification


18   program, all persons conducting hazardous waste


19   activities in that state will be required to notify


20    that state.    If a state hazardous waste definition


21    is more stringent than that promulgated under Section


22    3001 regulations, then the appicable state agency


23    could use this definition for -the purpose of notifi-


24    cation by affected persons in that state.


25                    State hazardous waste definitions

-------
                                                      28
1
    which are less stringent than that promulgated pur-
2
    suant to Section 3001 regulations cannot be used  for
3
    notification purposes.
4
                    CONFIDENTIALITY PROVISIONS
5
                    With respect to notifications sub-
6
    mitted to EPA, these proposed rules would allow

    affected persons to make confidentiality claims in
8
    three areas in their notification responses:
9
                    (a) Types of hazardous waste handled,

    as identified by criteria under Section 3001 regula-

11   tions.
12
                    (b) Description of hazardous wastes

13   handled, as identified by listing under Section 3001

    regulations, or by general type.

15                   (c) Estimated amount of hazardous

16   wastes handled annually  (optional item).

17                   Comments are requested from interested

18   parties as to which notification items should provide

19   for a confidentiality claim, and reasons why each

20   such item should be considered confidential.

21                   EPA is considering requiring affected

22   persons to provide substantiation of their confiden-

23   tiality claims at the time of initial notification.

24   There art two options :

•2f>                   The first option is the one in these

-------
                                                         29




     proposed rules.  Affected persons would be allowed to

 2
     make confidentiality claims without providing sub-


     stantiation at the time of initial notification.

 4
     If a request for information submitted was made later,


     EPA would then request that the affected person(s)


     provide substantiation of confidentiality claim(s)


     in accordance with the confidentiality of business


     information regulations.


 9                    If there are a large number of


10    requests from the public for copies of notification


11    responses,  there will be a burden on the EPA regional


12    office resources to request substantiation from each


13    submitter.


14                    The second option is designed to


15    avoid that  problem by requiring submission of sub-


16    stantiation at the time of initial notification.


     EPA would not have to go back to submitters again if


18    requests were received by EPA for notification


19    responses containing confidentiality claims.  However,


20    this would  place an additional initial reporting bur-


21    den upon affected persons.


                     Comments are requested on these or


23    other options for the confidentiality provisions.


     In addition, suggestsions on ways of making the


25    notification items reasonably accessible to the public

-------
 1
     would  be  appreciated.

 2
                     It  should  be  noted  that EPA plans

 3
     to  provide  for  separation  of  potentially confidential

 4
     and non-confidential  notification items in the final

 5
     regulations.

 6
                           SAMPLE  FORM

 7
                     These  proposed  rules  also contain a


     sample form for use in filing notif iceition.  Use of


     the form  is not mandatory,  but  its  use is encouraged


     to  facilitate  the notification  process.


                     To  assist  in  complying with these

12
     rules,  EPA  intends  to  mail  the  sample form and instruc

13
     tions  to  all known  persons  who  may  be required to


14    notify.


15                    EPA will  also encourage states manag-


     ing the notification program  to use a similar proced-


17    ure.   Failure  of the Agency or  the  authorized state


18    to  reach  any affected  person  will not, however, reliev


19    that person of  the  legal  requirement to notify.


20                    If  a person fully and accurately


21    completes and  returns  the  form  presented in these


     regulations for each place  of operation, the person


23    will have complied  with the requirements of these


24    regulations.     Persons utilizing this form may


     submit additional information or documents as a part

-------
                                                          31



     of the notification submission.


                         NOTIFICATION ITEMS

 g
                     If a person chooses not to use the


     form, that person must file a written notification


     stating clearly and legibly the following information


     (for each place of operation):

 7
                     1.  The name of the organization

 Q
     and place of operation.

 «
                     2.  The mailing address and location


10    of the place of operation.


11                    3.  The principal activity of the plac


12    of operation, either by four-digit Standard Industrial


13    Classification (SIC) code or by other description


14    (e.g., inorganic chemical manufacturing, petroleum


15    refining, et cetera).


16                    4.  An identification number for


17    the place of operation.


18                    (i) If a person has an Internal


19    Revenue Service employer identification number  (EIN),


20    this number shall be provided.


21                    (ii) A person who operates more than


22    one place of operation, each having the same EIN,


23    shall designate a separate suffix to the EIN to


24    distinguish each place of operation (e.g., (EIN No. )-


25    2, (EIN No. ) -3) .

-------
                                                        32

j                   (iii)  Federal facilities shall provide

2   the  General Services Administration acjency and facility

3   number.

4                   (iv) Transporters shall provide their

    Interstate Commerce Commission number; however, if a
O

    transporter does not have such a numbeir, he or she
b

    shall  provide his or her Public Utilities Commission

    number,  or other permit number (as assigned by State
8

    Health  Department,  etc) .

                    (v) All notifiers shall state the

    specific sources (IRS, ICC,  et cetera) of the

    identification number.
12
                    (vi) If a person does not have an
13
    already assigned identification number, this fact
14
    shall  be stated. fln identification number will then be
15
    assigned by EPA (or the designated state agency).
16
                    5.   The name, telephone number and
17
    address of a responsible individual at the place of
18
    operation who could be contacted for clarification
19
    of information submitted in the notification.
20
                    6.   A certification that the informatiofi
21
    submitted is complete and accurate.
22
                    7.   The type(s) of hazardous waste
23
    activity conducted by the person, i.e., generation,
24
    transportation, treatment, storage, or disposal of

-------
  9

 10

 11

 12

 13

 14

 15

 16

 17

 18

 19

 20

 21

 22

 23

 24

25
                                                        33
  1
      hazardous  waste.   Treatment, storage, or disposal
  2
      activities conducted at the site of waste generation
  3
      shall be indicated as "on-site treatment," et cetera.
  4
      Persons  who transport hazardous waste shall indicate
  5
      the  mode (air,  rail, highway,  water, et cetera) of
  6
      transportation.
  7
                          The types  of hazardous wastes
handled by the person, as identified by characteris-

tics under Section 3001 regulations.  All wastes which

are ignitable, reactive, infectious, radioactive, or

corrosive must be described as such.

                However, persons who cannot^in  the

90-day period allowed^ definitively determine  whether

their wastes are toxic may so indicate.

                If, after the 90-day period,  it is

determined that a waste is non-toxic, a statement to

this effect must be filed no later than 180  days

after promulgation of Section 3001 regulations.

Otherwise, the person will be considered, for notifi-

cation purposes, to be conducting hazardous  waste

activities.

                If, at some future date, a person

determines that his waste is not hazardous pursuant

to Section 3001 regulations, or if he ceases to
    •
handle hazardous waste, he may file a statement to

-------
                                                       34



     this  effect,  and he  will no longer be considered

 o
     to  be conducting hazardous  waste activities.


 3                   9.   A description of the hazardous


 4   waste handled as identified by listing under  the


 5   Section  3001  regulations, orb/ general type and


     specific contents (where known)  using the best


 7   available information (e.g.,  "wastewater treatment


 8   sludge containing lead compounds").


 9                   10.    A statement indicating  what


10   information,  if  any,  is to  be considered confidential


11   business information.


12                   11.   Optional;  An estimate of the


'3   annual amount of hazardous  waste handled based on the


14   period from January  1, 1977 to December 31, 1977.


15   For affected  persons  not conducting  hazardous waste


16   activities during any or all  of  that period,  the


n   annual volume should  be estimated in the best prac-


18   tical manner.


19                   I would now like to  turn the  hearing


20    over  to  Ms. Amy  Schaffer, who will address the


21    enforcement aspects.


22                    MS.  SCHAFFER:    Good afternoon.


23    I would  like  to  speak very  briefly on the enforcement


24    of  Section 3010.  The goal  of the Environmental


25    Protection Agency is  to insure that  the regulated

-------
                                                      35


     hazardous waste community complies with the RCRA

 2
     Hazardous Waste Regulations.

 Q
                     EPA views the notification process as


 4   the first step in obtaining overall compliance with


     the regulations -- learning who will be subject to


 6   the regulations and what and how much waste they


 7   handle.


 8                   We have attempted to maximize com-


 9   pliance with Section 3010 regulation in three ways:


 10                   First, we have tried to simplify the


 11   regulation to make it easy to notify and to relieve


 12   some of the reporting burden from the regulated


 13   community.


 14                   Second, the Agency is planning to


 15   inform the regulated community of the notification


 16   requirement and the advantages of voluntary compliance


 n    This dispersal of information is an ongoing activity


 18    which has already begun.


 19                    Finally, EPA plans on taking strong


 20    enforcement action against those who do not comply.


 21    Violation of the notification requirement is con-


 22    sidered very serious because those people who do not


 23    notify evade the entire control system and frustrate


 24    our efforts to build a data base defining the scope


25    of  the hazardous waste community.

-------
                                                           I
                                                        36


                    EPA will not hesitate in taking action

    against any person who attempts to evade the system.

                    The kinds of questions I would like
3

    for you to answer today, or in your written comments
4

    are :
5

                    How can we insure the quality of the
6
    information coming into the Agency is high enough to
7

    provide us with an accurate picture of the hazardous
8
    waste community?  How stringent should EPA be in
9
    assessing penalties to non-notifiers?  How can
10
    EPA inform all hazardous waste handlers of their
11
    requirement to notify?
12
                    I look forward to hearing your com-
13
    ments and answers to these and other questions this
14
    afternoon.
15
                    MR. LEHMAN:      I might just point
16
    out that those who settled down in back, this is not
17
    a church.  There are spaces up in front, if you prefer
18
    to get a little closer.  You might be able to hear
19
    the hearing statements a little better.
20
                    There may be questions from the

    audience about other parts of Subtitle C, so after

    all of the statements, comments and questions regarding

    the proposed Section 3010 regulations have been re-

    ceived and discussed, we will close the formal section

-------
                                                         37


 t    3010  public  hearing.   But if there is sufficient


 2    interest,  we will  attempt to answer any other ques-


     tions you  have  on  further subjects.


                     Now I  would like to call for oral
 4

     statements to the  Panel.   Speakers will be calledinHe
 5

     chronological order that  EPA received their request
 6

     to  speak at  this hearing,either by mail or at the


     desk  before  the hearing.
 8

                     So at  this time I would like to call
 9

     Mr. Chris  Stotter, Chief,  Division, Planning and T.A.,


     Ohio  EPA.   Is Mr.  Stotter in the audience?
11

                     Mr. Chris Stotter of the Ohio EPA,
12

     Columbus,  Ohio.  Evidently, he is not here.  I will
13

     come  back  and call for him after we have run through
14

     the list.
15

                     Next I would like to call Mr. E. R.
16

     Shuster, Vice President,  NEWCO Chemical Waste
17

     Systems, Inc.,  Niagara Falls,  New York.
18

                     Is Mr. E.  R. Shuster, Vice President oi
19

     NfcWCO Chemical  Waste Systems,  Inc., Niagara Falls,
20
     New York present?   Apparently not.
21
                     Next I would like to call Dr. Charles
22
     A. Johnson,  Technical  Director, National Solid Waste
23
     Management Association from Washington, D. C.

24
                     Is Dr. Charles A. Johnson of the

25

-------
9




10




11




12




13




14




15




16




17




18




19




20




21
                                                 38



National Solid Waste Management Association of



Washington, D. C. present?  Apparently not.



                Next Mr. James R. Hulrn, General  Mana-



ger, Solvents Recovery Service of New Jersey, Inc.,
                 t


Linden, New Jersey.



                Mr. James R. Hulm of Solvents Recovery



Service of New Jersey, Inc., Linden, New Jersey?



Is he present?  Apparently not.  We will come back.



                I might point out that  two individuals



indicated1, originally indicated^that they wanted  time



to speak here, but have since notified  us  that  they



will submit their comments in writing.   So I am  going



to skip over those individuals.



                Next I would like to call Mr. Eugene



Bailey, Vice President of Dolio and Metz, Ltd.,  of



Chicago, Illinois.  Mr. Bailey, would you please  give



your name and address to the court reporter and  also



indicate whether you would accept questions?



                MR. BAILEY:      I would be glad  to



accept questions, sir.  My identification is enclosed



in my comments.



                My name is Eugene C. Bailey.  I  am  a



registered professional engineer in the' State of



Illinois and vice president of Dolio and Metz Limited,



a consulting engineering organization in Chicago.

-------
                                                       39



                     I am testifying at this joint hearing

 2
     on behalf of our client, American Admixtures Corpora-

 3
     tion and several midwestern utility companies.

 4
                     I served Commonwealth Edison Company


     in various engineering capacities for more than 40


     years.  I was an ex officio member of the Illinois


     Commission on Atomic Energy for more than 10 years

 Q
     and vice chairman of the Illinois Boiler Board for


     10 years.


 1                    Nationally, I have been very active


     in the development of the American Society of Chemical


     Engineers Boiler and Pressure Vessel Codes relating


     to nuclear power plant components, their design,


 14    maintenance and in-service inspection.


 15                    One of the major goals in my work as


 16    an engineer dealing with regulatory agencies of the


 17    Federal and State governments has been to achieve


 18    simplicity, avoid redundancy and prevent contradictory


 19    overlapping of laws, regulations, codes, and standards


20                    Looking for the Illinois Atomic


21    Energy Commission, I demonstrated that the public


22    interest could best be served by the State of Illinois


23    adopting the federal regulations relating to the


24    transportation of hazardous materials in their entire-


2S    ty, but the statutory reference, without any changes.

-------
                                                       40


 i    as laws for the State of Illinois.


 2                    This action reduced the problems of


 3    compliance by industry in the same manner as has been


 4    achieved by the majority of the States and the


 5    Nuclear Regulatory Commission of the United States


 6    by adopting the ASME Boiler and Pressure Vessel Codes


 7    Sections III, "Nuclear Power Plant Components," and


 g    Section XI, "Rules for In-Service Inspection of


 „    Nuclear Power Plant Components" as their law.


                     I am testifying at  this hearing on


     the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency's proposed


     rules "Preliminary Notification of Hazardous Waste


     Activities" -- 40 CFR Part 250, to continue my efforts
lo

     to establish the fact that  the byproducts of combus-
14

     tion of coal for power generation are not wastes


     when they are used beneficially.
16

                     When these coal combustion byproducts,
17

     ily ash, bottom ash, slag and sludges resulting from
18

     scrubbing combustion gases with lime-water mixtures


     are used beneficially, they should be recognized as
20

     "recoverable resources."
21

                     Demonstration of the beneficial use
22

     of these "recoverable resources" resulting from the
23

     combustion of coal should relieve their generators,
24

     transporters, storers and users from the need to
25

-------
                                                        41

1
    establish a management and control system for them as

2
    wastes.

3
                    Also,  the requirement for "preliminary

4
    notification of hazardous waste activities," which is

5
    the subject of this hearing, will not exist, and it

6
    should not be imposed  upon them.


                    The thrust of my comments at the EPA/


    DOT Joint Public Hearing on "Proposed Regulations


    for the  Transportation  of Hazardous Wastes and


10   Materials," on June 20th 1978 in Alexandria, Va .


11   and at the Illinois Pollution Control Board Hearing

1 9
    on "Liquid and Hazardous Waste Hauling Regulations"


13   and "errata" on February 2nd, 1977 in Chicago,


1    Illinois has been that the naming of hazardous wastes


15   by the U.S. EPA would  eliminate a great deal of


16   concern  and confusion  in American industries affected


17   by the U.S. and State  EPA rules and regulations.


18                   Further, continuation of the present


19   practice of writing rules and regulations about


20   materials which are defined but not named, places a


21   burden upon American industry, which is not necessary


    and is not needed.


23                   The material concerning the hearing


    of February 2nd, 1977  in Chicago, Illinois, which was


    submitted as a part of my comments at the hearing of

-------
                                                          42



     June  20th,  1978  in  Alexandria,  Virginia,  describes

  2
     the confusion which is  caused  by  the  U.S.  EPA

  3
     failing  to  name  hazardous  wastes  as required by the

  4
     "Resource Conservation  and Recovery Act  of 1976."

  5
                      In  my written  comments on the June

  £•
     20th  hearing, I  included a list of  25 references


     demonstrating that  fly  ash,  slag, bottom ash and flue

  o
     gas scrubber sludge are "recoverable  resources."

  9
                      At  this time,  I wish  to  add to the


     list  the fact that  there have  been  four  industrial


     ash utilization  symposiums held in  this  country in


 12   1967,  1970, 1973, and 1976.   They  have been well


 13   attended by representatives  from  foreign countries


 14   such  as  Australia,  Germany, and Hungary.


 15                    More than  40 papers have been presents


 16   at each  meeting.  The meetings were arranged by


 17   the National Ash Association.   They were sponsored


 18   by U.S.-ERDA, the Ediscn Electric Institute, the


 19   National Coal Association,  and the  American Public


20   Power  Association.


21                     Summarizing, my comments are:


22    Publication of a list of hazardous  wastes by U.S.-


23    EPA would eliminate the confusion caused by the

              i
24    State  EPAS  interpreting the published definitions


     and criteria in  different  ways, and the  byproducts

-------
                                                       43





  1   of coal combustion for power generation that are used




  2   beneficially should be considered recoverable re-




  3   sources.




  4                   They are not discarded materials, so




  5   they should not be called wastes, and, in particular,




  6   the generators, transporters, storerSjand users of




  7   these recoverable resources should not be required to




  8   comply with the U.S.-EPA proposed procedures for




  9   preliminary notification of hazardous waste activities




 10                   I thank you.




 11                   MR. LEHMAN:      Thank you, Mr. Bailey




 12   for your  remarks.  Are there any questions from the




 13   Panel?




 14                   Apparently not.  Are there any from




 ift   the audience?




 16                   (No response.)




 17                   Next I would like to call on Mr.




 18   Charles B. Brush, environmental affairs specialist




 19   of Koppers.




 20                   MR. BRUSH:       I am Charles P. Brush



 21   environmental affairs specialist, environmental re-




 22   sources and occupational'health, the Koppers Company,




 23   Inc.,  Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.  I will welcome a




24   chance to answer any questions you may have.




25                   An unreasonable and unnecessary

-------
                                                    44


    reporting burden  is being  placed  upon  the  regulated

    community by  the  Agency  because of  its inconsistent

    approach  to  identifying production sites.     The
3

    Environmental  Protection Agency p resently  collects
4

    data  from pesticide producing  establishments  on the
5

    basis of an EPA assigned plant number.
6

                    The EPA  has  received the  Toxic Sub-
7

    stances Control Act inventory  of  chemicals  with
8

    production sites  identified  by the  Dun &  Bradstreet
9

    number.  The  Agency now  proposes  to identify  sites
10
    using the BIN  number  with  a  corporate!-/ added suffix
n
    to  locate each plant.
12
                    Although the Economic  and Environmental
13
    Impacts statement of  the Summary  Information  Section
14
    of  the July 11, 1978  notice  states  that the notifica-
15
    tion  is required  only once and is primarily an ad-
16
    minlstrative  procedure,  we believe  that the reporting
17
    system has in it  the  basis of  all future plant permit
18
    and reporting  numbers.
19
                    If the EPA does,  in fact,  plan for
20
    a  cradle-to-grave approach for the  control of toxics,

21
    we  urge you to use one identification system for
22
    production sites.  We expect reports and permits

23
    required under FIFRA  amended,  TSCA  and .RCRA to be

24
    generated within  one  internal  control system and by

25
    one specific  group of individuals.   We know that

-------
                                                    45



    we will be able to do the job better and less expen-


    sively if we can keep our data under one set of


3   controls.


4                   Another matter of lesser importance,


    but of significance in the handling of information,


    is the apparent conflict between paragraph 250.801(i).


    the definition of a responsible individual; paragraph


    250.823 (b) (5) , the responsible individual at the pla<".


    of operation;  and Table 1, the Specific Instructions


    request that the principal technical contacts at each


    place of operation be listed.


                    The problem is that neither the


    responsible individual making the report nor the


    principal technical contact may be at the place of
14


    operation.   You should note that the TSCA Inventory


    Reports did not require that the principal technical
16

    contacts be at the place of manufacture.
17

                    In this age of specialization, many
18

    of the smaller operating sites do not have the staff
19

    or technical experts physically present.  They are
20

    often located  in the corporate headquarters or division!
21

    research and development centers.  If a. local contact


    is desired,  why not request the facilities' manager's
23
    name.
24
                    We further suggest that some form of

-------
                                                         46


 l
     receipt  be  used when notification is made.  This

 2
     reporting  is  the basis  of a. very long affair between

 3
     corporations  and regulator.  We should have good

 4
     records  to  start with.   Thank you.

 5
                     MR.  LEHMAN:      Thank, you, Mr.

 6
     Brush.   Does  the Panel  have any questions?

 7
                     MR.  SANJOUR:      I  think you raised

 8
     the  issue  in  which you  would  like to see an acknow-


     ledgment.   I  believe it is our plans to do that.

10
                     MS.  SCHAFFER:     Do you have any


     specific numbering system that you  would like to use

12
     with respect  to identification numbers?  Which one

13      , ,         ,
     would you prefer?


14                    MR.  BRUSH:       The TSCA numbering


     looks reasonable.  Dun  & Bradstreet numbers seems


1    to work, but  the BIN numbers  seem to be an irrational


     numbering  in  that each  manufacturer has    assigned
18
     suffix himself  to  the  location,  and that would give
19   you  no  clue  at  all.


20                    MS.  SCHAFFER:     Thank you.


21                    MR.  LEHMAN:       Are there any other


22   questions  or comments  from the  Panel?


23                    MR.  FIELDS:       I  agree with your


24   assessment in the  identification of numbers.   We are


25   working internally for all Subtitle C regulations

-------
                                                     47





    trying to work out some sort of uniform system for




    assigning ID numbers.   So the ID numbers received in



    response to notification will be utilized as input,




    but they will not be -- it might not be the number




5   we assign to an affected person.  we are trying to




6   work out some sort of  uniform system for assigning




7   numbers.  That is a problem.




                    MR. LEHMAN:      Any other comments




9   from the Panel?  Apparently not.  Thank you again,




10   Mr. Brush.




                    Next I would like to call Mr. Mark



12   Bergman from the Northeast District of the Ohio EPA,




                    MR. BERGMAN:     I am here represent-




    ing some of the other people.  My name is Mark Bergman.




    I work for the Northeast District of the Ohio EPA,




16   and I am in the office of Land Pollution Control,
17
    and I was requested by Mr. Jim Michael of our office
    to go on the record stating in regards to the notifica-
lo


    tion of hazardous waste activity Form No. 1, Section C,



    concerning the SIC number in which the Ohio EPA




    wishes to go on record stating that the SIC number




    should be mandatory for all manufacturing industries.




                    MR. LEHMAN:      Since Mr. Bergman




    indicated he didn't feel comfortable in answering




    questions, we will press on.

-------
                                                          48




 1                   Ladies and gentlemen,  that  is  the




 2   bottom of the list of people who have  indicated  a




 3   desire to speak.  Let me go back over  those  individ-




 4   uals, which we had received indications  that they




 5   wished to speak and go over that just  one more time,




 6   so that we make sure we allow them all the  oppor-




 7   tunities we can for them to present a  statement.




 8   We will get to the questions here in at minute.




 9                    I would like to call Mr. Chris Stotter




10    of the Ohio EPA from Columbus, Ohio.   Mr. Stotter?




ll                    Okay.  Mr. Stotter apparently  is not




12    here today, and we feel we gave him an ample oppor-




13    tunity to speak.  So that will be the  last  time  we




14    call on him.




15                    Next I would like to call Mr.  E. R.




16    Shuster, Vice President of NEWCO Chemical Waste  System




     of Niagara Falls, New York.  Is Mr. Shuster  here?




     Apparently not.




lg                    Next I would like to call Dr.  Charles




20    A. Johnson, Technical Director of National  Solid




     Waste Management Association, Washington, D.  C.




     Is Dr. Johnson present?  Apparently not.




,23                    Next I would like to call Mr.  James




     R. Hulm, General Manager of Solvents Recovery  Service




     of New Jersey, Linden, New Jersey.  Is Mr.  Hulm  in

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                                                       49



 1   the audience?  Apparently not.


 2                   We have received a request for an


 3   individual who had not registered to speak, but he


 4   now wishes to speak, so I would like to call him at


 5   this time, Mr. David E. Breed, Director of Independence


 6   Liquid Terminals Association.


 7                   MR. BREED:       I would like to


 8   bring up a question that comes up in a group of


 9   companies like ours, and I will give you a brief run-


10   down of the Independent Liquid Terminals Association


u   and what they do.  I am director at large and head


12   up the technical committee of the Independent Liquid


13   Terminals Association, a national trade association
14
    which represents commercial operators of bulk liquid
    terminal and tank storage facilities located on the
Id


    east coast, gulf coast, west coast, Great Lakes and


    inland waterways of the United States.


                    ILTA members operate a total of 150
18


    deepwater and barge terminals in 32 states with a


    capacity at any given tine to hold 147 million barrels


    of bulk liquid commodities.  It is estimated that


    these ILTA terminals handle annually over 588 million
22                                      *

    barrels of bulk liquid commodities essential to Ameri-
23

    can business, and, hence, the American consumer.
24


                    These terminals interconnect with

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                                                     50


l    and provide services to the various modes of bulk


2    liquid carriers, namely tankers, tank barges, tank


3    trucks, tank rail cars, and pipelines.


4                    The commodities handled include a


5    wide variety of chemicals, crude oil, refined petroleuir


6    products, animal fats and oils, molasses and vegetable


7    oils.


                    Terminal facilities, as committee


    members are probably well aware, consist of docks for


    tankers and tank barges, pumps and equipment for


    loading and unloading ttie vessels, pipelines to and


    from storage tanks, sometimes pipelines to purchasers


    and users of products, and loading and unloading
lo

    facilities for rail tank cars and tank trucks.
14

                    ILTA members own waterside terminal


    and storage tanks, but largely do not own the products
16

    stored in the tanks.  The products are usually owned


    by major oil and chemical companies, commodity brokers
18

    manufacturers and utilities.  ILTA members provide
19

    and sell a handling service at the terminal  for
20

    onloading or offloading bulk liquids, and they will
21

    store the product for a fee until the owner  needs it


    or sells it.
23

                    At the present time, we are  confronted
24

    with lists of hazardous materials, explosive, et cetera

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                                                         51
 i   We are also confronted with similar lists promulgated
 2   by the United States Coast Guard under 33 CFR and a
 3   number of changes that are in the works that relate
 4   to that.
 5                   We also are governed by the transpor-
 6   tation of hazardous materials lists which are under
    49 CFR, Part 171 through 177.
 8                   The three aforementioned lists that
 9   I mentioned do not agree with one another.  By defini-
10   tion, the lists are not the same.
                    At the present time, we have no idea,
12   as the first speaker mentioned, exactly what we are
13   going to be confronted with in the proposed rules
    and regulations that we are going to run into dis-
15   cussion here today.  They have been defined, but not
16   named as the first Chicago speaker mentioned.
                    Many of these terminals who are
.„   members of the ILTA are small operations, less than
lo
    $200,000 of storage.   Some of them may store, let's
    say,  leaded gasoline, for instance.
,                   Occasionally they have to clean those
    tanks.  There are rules and regulations governing the
    cleaning fluids.
                    We are uncertain whether we have a
    source of the generation of these hazardous materials

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                                                        52



    whose names are yet unpublished, but who are defined.


 2                   We know they are hazardous.  We


 3   feel that generally speaking as long as -- we are


    not basically in the transportation or disposal


    business.  This comes about as byproduct, because we


    operate terminals.  It is almost impossible to state


    accurately or even at a wild guess as to what the


    degree of generation of these hazardous products may


 9   be over a period of time, because something goes off


10   spec, and you have to clean a tank.


                    Now, it may not go off spec for four or


    five or 10 years, and, suddenly, you get a period


    of time that you have to clean the tank three times
lo

    in a year.  We might honestly believe that we are not


    in violation of the reporting system as it is now
15

    proposed, but then we find out that somebody says
16

    you have to clean the tank.  You generated a hazara-


    dous material.
18

                    I am in some doubts as to how to
19

    handle this with the members of ILTA.  We don't
20

    oppose the regulations, but there is a very gray area
21

    as to whether or not it does or does not apply to
22

    someone who basically is in the storage business.
23

                    Mr. Sanjour, in his opening comments,
24

    said that he, as I interpreted what he said, thac

-------
                                                    53
    it did not necessarily apply to someone who  is  storing.

    Is this true, or could he amplify that a  little fur-

    ther?  I think it was Section 3003.

                    MR. LEHMAN:      Can we hold that

    answer until you are finished with your statement?

                    MR. BREED:       Sure.  That is the

    main thrust of our questions here.  We feel  that we

    really don't understand what is going to  be  required

    of companies that basically are not in the manufac-

    turing of selling or generation of this type of

    hazardous materials, but there is an interim group of

    companies, such as pipelines, who, at times,  or

    bigger pipelines, who may have leaded products  or

    motor gasoline products and other things  in  them.

                    Where do terminals and pipeline opera-

    tors and the like fit in?  There are occasions  when

    somebody will come alongside and pick up  the results

    of tank cleaning and something of that sort.  They

    use our facilities as a means of getting  the product

    off the barge or the ship, but they are not  something

    that we generated or expect to generate.

                    They come by nature of our business

    at times.  We are sort of in the position -- I  wish

    I could comment more specifically on these proposed
2-1
    rules, but it is hard to hit a moving target that is
1


2


3


4


5


6


1


8


9


10


11


12


13


14


15


16


17


18


19


20


21

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 19



 20



 21



 22



 23



 24
                                                         54
    forever changing in shape and color.  I would be



    quite willing to answer any questions! from the



    audience or from the Panel here who would be inter-
3


    ested in the terminal aspect of this question.
4


                    MR. LEHMAN:      Thank you for your
5

    remarks, Mr. Breed.  ^r. Sanjour, would you like to
6

    comment?
7

                    MR. SANJOUR:     I will make several
8

    comments.  Your questions go to an awful lot of the
9

    issues.  First of all, in storage, I believe, the
10

    current storage of the current 3002 proposed regula-
11

    tions read that if a person is a generator of a
12

    hazardous waste and stores only for the purpose of

13

    transportation for a period of less than 90 days,

14

    and one of the other panelists may correct me if I am

15

    wrong, if it is less than 90 days, that he does not

16

    require a storage permit.  Does that answer one of

 17

    your questions?

 18

                    MR. BREED:       Most of our member
companies store on an ongoing basis.  Sometimes we  have


products that only turn over four times a year, so


they might sneak into the 90-day rule.


                MR. SANJOUR:     Then you would need


a storage permit, if it is hazardous waste.


                MR. BREED:       I don"t intend to

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                                                       55
    generate any waste, but there comes —


2                   MR. SANJOUR:     We are talking about

o
    transporters who store, not generators.  Then, I


    believe, the current version is that they would


5   require a permit.


6                   MR. LEHMAN:      May I make a comment


7   here?  I think from the gist of your remarks, Mr.


8   Breed, there appears to be a confusion here between


9   the storage of hazardous commodities and hazardous


10   waste.


11                   The type of operation that you have


12   described where you merely hold materials that really


13   belong to somebody else, I presume that these are


14   valuable commodities that are not wastes, necessarily,


'5   at the time you are holding them?


16                   MR. BREED:       Correct.


17                   MR. LEHMAN:      They would not come


18   under the purview of Subtitle C of the hazardous


19   waste regulations, because they are not defined as a


20   waste.  In other words, there is a big difference


21   between hazardous commodities and hazardous waste.


22   So in that aspect, you wouldn't be part of the system


23   at all.


04                   However, the part you mentioned about


25   now and then getting a problem or just a routine

-------
                                                     56






    cleaning out of your tank bottoms  or  something  --




2                   MR. BREED:       That's  correct.




3                   MR. LEHMAN:      -- in that  case,




4   presuming the materials that were  stored in  that  tank




    were hazardous commodities, one  could presume  that




    the tank bottoms or the cleaning is probably hazardous




    wastes in which case each facility that  is responsible




8   for cleaning those tanks and sending  the material  away




9   becomes a generator of hazardous waste.




10                   MR. BR.TED:       For  the most  part,




11   our companies do not do their  own  cleaning,  their




12   own tank cleaning, nor do they collect the material,




13   nor do they arrange the transportation or the  final




14   disposal of it.




15                   In other words,  this  is  done by con-




15   tractors.  We don't have any real  handle on  how much




17   we generate, because it is  not really something that




18   is in our control.  A leaded gasoline tank may go  for




19   years without being cleaned, but when we do  clean  it,




20   there is no question that it is  hazardous.




91                   This reporting system that you propose




    to establish requires a licensing  or  the announcement




    that you have this on hand.  But we have really no




    knowledge, generally, of the degree of  the  amounts,




    big tanks or little tanxs.

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 9






10





11





12





13





14





15






16





17





18





19





20
                                                     57





                MR. LEHMAN:      I can appreciate




the point you are making in the sense that assuming




that this is not a routine thing that you have  a




specific schedule where you are going to clean  specific




tanks or something like that, nor do you know in




advance what the makeup of that waste material  might




be, because of what was stored in that tank.  And




that may vary from month to month or year to year.




I can appreciate that, but, nevertheless, when  the tank




is clean, the responsibility for assuring that




a manifest for the transportation of that waste mater-




ial is completed --




                MR. BREED:       We would not object




to that at all.  It is a question of could we report




as we generate, since it is on such a rare and  random




basis.




                MR. LEHMAN:      I think here again




we are confusing the notification requirements  under




Section 3010 and the manifest requirements under




Section 3002.  Just as an opinion at this stage, I




would say to advise members of your association that




if they believe that at some time in the past and




probably in the future they will, in fact, be




generating hazardous waste because of the cleaning




of tanks, which contain hazardous commodities,  that

-------
                                                        58

1
    they should notify EPA  or  the  authorized estate that

2
    they from time  to time  do  generate  a  hazardous waste.

3
                    They  should  indicate  that  you are not

4
    able to identify in advance  v*nat  the  nature  of those

5
    wastes are going to be  at  any  particular moment nor

6
    the quantity, nor the time that it  will  take place,


    but that, in fact, from time to time  you generate


    hazardous waste.  This  would cover  you  legally to


    satisfy the notification requirement.


                    Now,  as far  as the  3002  goes, each


    shipment of waste off your property would  require a


12   manifest, but only if it is  a  waste and  only at the


13   time that you do, in  fact, ship it  off.


                    So if you  make no shipments  for nine
15
    months, you have no responsibilities  as  generator
16   under 3002.


17                   MR.  BREED:        If  we  have assured


18   ourselves that the contractors who  the  individual


19   member is dealing with  has  reported  to  you people,


20   EPA, that he  is a licensed  or authorized conveyor of


21   this material, must  the source of this, namely,  the


22   terminal, also report?


23                   MR.  LEHMAN:       I  believe the answer


24   to that  is  yes, because the  philosophy  of the whole


25   Subtitle C  is that the  generator of  the waste is

-------
                                                     59





    responsible  for  the  proper  disposal  of  that waste,




    and not the  person who  transports  it.   So a quick
 3
 4   responsible under  Section  3002.
 5





 6





 7





 8





 9





10





11





12





13





14





15





16





17





18





19





20





21
    answer to that  is yes.  You  probably  would be
                Do we have any other  comments?




                A VOICE:          I am in  the  disposal




business, so we get his wastes.   Now,  we  make the




reports to the Ohio EPA.  Does that generator also




have to make the reports?  I think that's  a question.




                MR. LEHMAN:       The  question was:




Does the disposal and the generator have  to make a




report to the regulatory authority?




                That, of course,  may  vary  from  state




to state.  In the federal program, we have defined




the generator makes the report, but not the trans-




porter.  In the Ohio EPA, there is a  different  system




where both have to report.  But in the federal  system,




the transporter is not required.




                I are sure if you  have other questions,




we would be happy to handle it.   We do have a number




of other questions that had been  passed up to us




that we would like to get to.  Thank  you,  Mr.   Breed.




                At this time, I would like to move  on




to the questions that have been passed up  to  us.




What we will do is the individuals who have had a

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 2





 3





 4





 5





 6





 7





 8





 9





10





11





12





13





14





15





16





17





18





19





20





21
                                                  60




chance to look at these questions, we will read the




questions and then provide an answer or, at least, a




comment.




                Tim Fields, would you like to start?




                MR. FIELDS:      It says, "Federal




agencies  must report as any other person, which




includes  by definition corporations.  May a federal




agency with more than one site submit one notification




as permitted in the special case of corporations?"




                As the regulation said before, a




person may file a notification for each of its




individual facilities, even though they might be




located in different states.  That same regulation




does apply to federal agencies.




                Maybe we can clarify that in the




regulation.  But federal agencies may submit a




single notification for each of his individual facili-




ties, as  long as the same notification response,




that is,  or the sample form is submitted to EPA




or an authorized state for each of those individual




federal facilities.  The same rule applies whether




we are talking about federal facilities or private




facilities.




                MR. LEHMAN:      Another question:




"Are there any procedures for integration of

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                                                          61




      notification  procedures  with Subtitle  D (4001 et seq.)



      Regional  Solid  Waste  Management Planning?   If not,



      why  not?   Please  explain."



                     Well,  the comment I  would make here



      is that Subtitle  D of RCRA,  as  those of you are



      familiar  with,  RCRA is essentially  a state operated



      program,  whereas  Subtitle C  is  a state program if the



      £tate  desires^ but becomes a  Federal program if the


 9

      £tate  chooses not to  operate it



                     Furthermore, there  are no  modification



      requirements  in Subtitle D,  only in Subtitle C.


 19
      At the present  time,  we  have not considered it neces-



      sary to integrate these  two  programs together, but,



      I believe,  the  thrust of the question  raises a good



 15     point; namely,  whatever  notification one receives



 16     under  Subtitle  C  might serve as perhaps a  lead-in



 17     to some of  the  inventory work under Subtitle D, or



 18     perhaps vice  versa.



 19                    While we have not done such integra-



20     tion to date, I think this raises a new issue, and



21     we will look  into that when we get back.



                     Another  question which I have not had



      an opportunity  to Dead yet, so I will read  it and



      answer it with  you,  it is actually, I  believe, two



      questions :

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                                                         62



                    No.  1,  due  to  the  lack  of  ability to

2
    review the proposed  regulations  for  Sections  3001,

n
    -4 and -5, it would  be  appropriate to defer comments


    on Section 3010 until the other  proposed regulations


5   are promulgated.


                    Okay.   This  sane basic  issue  was


7   touched on by some of the speakers here today and


8   was also  touched on  in  some  of our previous public


9   hearings  on Section  3003 and 3006.


10                   In other words,  how  can one intelli-


11   gently comment on a  regulation concerning  various


12   aspects of the hazardous waste program  when the


13   definitions of hazardous wastes  has  not yet been


i*   promulgated or even  proposed.  The answer  to  this is


is   that we feel constrained to  proceed  with,  for example,


16   this regulation on 3010 notification.   Due to the


17   timing of the law, as I believe  Mr.  Fields pointed


18   out, we must have a  list of  all  of the  States that


19   are going to be authorized  to  receive notifications


20   available and published in  the Federal  Register  at


21   or before the time we promulgated  Section  3001.


22                   If you  read  the  regulation carefully,


23   you will  see there is approximately  a 12 0-day period


24   that is set aside for-EPA to receive applications


95   from the  gtates who  wish to  carry  out this notificatio

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                                                          63
 j    program.


 2                    So we have to have these regulations


 3    filed and in the Federal Register at least 120 days


     before 3001, and, more particularly, more than six


     months before 3001 to allow this application and


     review and authorization to take place before, so


     we will be able to publish an explicit list in the


     Federal Register, giving people who are required to
 8

     notify explicit instructions as to whether they


     should notify EPA or notify the State.


                     So it is, therefore, a timing problem


     here.  We have to get this regulation moving in


     advance of the main body of the regulations.


                     The second question, Section 3010,
14

     reporting impact -- since the economic impact statemen
15

     is not complete or available, how can the statement
16

     be made that "Most of the requested information will
17

     be on hand" for reporting purposes?
18

                     Here again, we are faced with this
19

     timing problem here.  We want to go forward with the
20

     regulations.  We are attempting, basically for the
21

     first time it has been tried, to develop an environ-
22

     mental impact statement and an economic analysis for
23

     all seven regulations simultaneously.
24

                     We are doing it for all seven

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                                                   64
 1
     simultaneously.  Unfortunately, due to the delays
 2
     we have had in the other regulations, we are not able
 3
     to put out a complete EIS or a complete economic
 4
     impact statement in parallel with the time for
 5
     proposal of this regulation.
 6
                     I believe, though, to address the main
     substance of this is that we are attempting to make
 o
     this notification process as sufficiently clear and
 9
     easy,  so that most people will be able to identify

     and be able to respond for the notification purposes

     without extensive new demands on them for informa-
12
     tion about hazardous waste.

13                    So we do believe that that statement

     is accurate; that most of this requested information
15    will already be on hand.  This also gets into how
16    the current thinking is within the  agency concerning
17    how we are going to define that hazardous waste.

18                    As I mentioned earlier, we will get

19    into that if you are interested after we close this

20    particular hearing on 3010.

21                    I have some more questions.  I guess,

22    Bill,  do you want to handle the next one?
23                    MR. SANJOUR:     The question is:

24    "what disadvantages are there for a 5tate which

25    chooses not to opt for preliminary interim status

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2





3





4





5





6





7





8





9





10





11





12





13





14





15





16





17





18





19
                                                     65





for notification  purposes,  but plans to apply for




interim status  and  full  status later?




                The  whole  concept of preliminary




status, the reason we  have  gone into that in such




great depth is  because of  several States that felt




very strongly about  it.  They  were to have interim




status and take over the program.  They did not want




the Federal Government handling the notification,




because there would  be too  big a disruption in the




program to deal with the Federal Government and then




switch to the State.




                This was especially true in 5tates




that already had  an  ongoing hazardous waste program.




                They felt  switching would be a bad




disruption and  not be very  good for the regulations




with their industry.  That's why we went to great




lengths to have  this, so  that the States wishing to




handle the program and are  handling it can.




                The  other  question is:   "If the mater-




ials left in the  bottom of  a tank are recoverable




(example:  crude  oil bottoms),  must they be recovered




under the Subtitle C regulations, and must the tank




owner notify an authorized  £tate or EPA?"




                That all depends on whether or not that




material is a hazardous waste  as defined in Section

-------
                                                        66



 1    3001,  which has  not yet been published.   What we


 2    are  doing  now is treading on a borderline case.


 3    I  believe  the most  current draft the way 3001 is


 4    written,  such materials if recovered would not be


 5    considered a waste, but I think the final determina-


 e    tions  are  going  to  have to wait for the  specific


 7    language  that appears  in 300.1.


 g                    MR. LEHMAN:       Thank you.  Bill.


 9    We are back to the  same issue again.  How can one


10    deal intelligently  with 3010 without knowing what


     3001 says?  The  docket is open for comment here.


12                    The 3010 docket, while we call for


     remarks by September llth, will remain open.  We


     would  like to have  comments  in by then,  but  it will
14

     remain open beyond  that time until 3001  is proposed


     and  90 days thereafter.   So you will have an oppor-
16

     tunity to  comment officially on 3010 after you have


     seen what  the proposed 3001  looks like.


                     I have another question  here.  In
19

     one  of the definitions of 3010, solid waste  is
20

     defined to mean  "sludge from a waste treatment plant"
21

     but  does  not include "solid  or dissolved material
22

     in domestic sewage."
23

                     The question is:  "Which publicly
24

     owned waste treatment  plants do not have to  submit
25

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                                                        67



     notification?"

 2
                     Again, this is partially a question

 3
     of how 3001 defines what hazardous waste is.   If

 4
     the sludge from a municipal wastewater  treatment  plant


     is not hazardous as defined under 3001, then  the

 f*
     publicly owned treatment works would not have  to


     submit a notification.


                     In the draft of  3001, which by  the


     way, is available on the registration desk, the


     latest draft, one aspect of it is that  sewage  sludge


11   which has not been stabilized is considered a


     hazardous waste, whereas stabilized sludge might


     not be, depending on other parameters.


                     So, ift»publicly  owned waste treatment


15   plant does not stabilize their sludge at all,  then


16   the implication would be that they would be generat-


17   ing a hazardous waste.  Another  aspect  of this whole


18   question revolves around the passage of the Clean


     Water Act amendments of 1977, Section 405(D)  and


20    405(E), which are new provisions of the Clean Water


21    Act.


                     These call for EPA, under the Clean


23    Water Act, to regulate sewage sludge.   So Congress


24    has, therefore, provided the EPA with what amounts


     to overlapping authority.  We have authority under

-------
                                                        68


     RCRA, and we have authority under the Clean Water  Act,


 2    Section 405.  There is a proposal now which is  being


 3    discussed to consolidate the rule making  concerning


 4    publicly owned, sewage treatment operations, the


 5    sludge.


 6                    I am referring to only publicly


 7    owned, not industrial}  405 under the Clean Water


     Act only refers to publicly owned;  that the Agency


     may adopt a plan whereby all ELTW sludge  is regulated


     and controlled under the provision  of the Clean


     Water Act, rather than under RCRA.
11

                     If that proposal is  approved,  then


     no publicly owned treatment works would be required
13

     to notify under the provision of 3010, because
14

     they v/ould be controlled through Section  405  of the
15

     Clean Water Act, which is, in turn,  keyed to  the
16

     NPDES permit program on which applies at  all  levels
17

     of operations.  I hope that clarifies that to some
18

     degree.
19

                     I believe  that's all of  the questions
20

     we have  from the audience.  Does anyone  have  any
21

     oral questions they would  like  to  ask concerning


     Section  3010 of the proposed regulation  on 3010?


                     Would you  please step to  the


     microphone  and identify yourself,  give  us your name.

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                                                       69



 1                    MR.  FACIN:        Craig  Facin.   I



 2   asked the question  about  what  disadvantages there are



 3   for a State  that does  not opt  for the temporary interim



 4   status.  I sort  of  wanted to ask  it  one more time,



 5   because  I didn't quite get the answer.   The point



 6   I am making  for  a lot  of  5tates is tnat it is  diffi-



 7   cult for them  to get organized very  quickly to handle



 8   this program,  and my particular 5tate — I won't



 9   mention  its  name --  is taking  the attitude that it



    might be better  to  just sit back  and wait and  let



    the EPA  handle it;  let the EPA absorb all the  costs.



12   There has to be  some drawback.



13                    Everything I have read  says that EPA



    does not want  to administer the program.  The  idea



 5   is to pass as much  onto the State as you can.   Who



    is going to  pay  for  the EPA administering the  interim



    program?



                     MR.  LEHMAN:       The conduct by a
18


    /tate of this  limited  interim  authorization program



    for 3010 notification is an allowable expense under
20


    the State program grants  that  are under 3011 of RCRA.



                     If  the S.tate chooses to take on this



    program, they would  be supported  to  the extent of



    their match  by the State  program  grant  itself,  so



    there is a Federal  financial assistance available to

-------
                                                         70

 l   States who choose to take this on.

 2                   MR. FACIN:        If a State  doesn't

 3   choose to take it over -- say in  my particular -State

 4   the estimate is there are 10 or 15 thousand  generators

 5   How is the EPA going to handle the program physically?

 6   X don't see it being very realistically  done.   I

 7   think the States are going to have to do the program

    is my own point.

                    MR. LEHMAN:       Is that a comment

10   or a question?

                    MR. FACIN:        You have my sympathy.

                    MR. LEHMAN:       There will  no  doubt

    be, we hope not too many, but, some States which,
13
    for one reason or anothejr, do not wish to take  on
14
    this notification program.  The EPA does intend  to
15
    carry out this program in those States that  do  not
16
    wish to do it.
17
                     We have indicated the outline  of how
18
    we intend to do it early on in terms of  computer
19
    mailings to parties who we feel will be  impacted  in
20
    both generators and storers, treaters, transporters
21
    and generators.
22
                    We have been assembling  over the  past
23
    several months computerized sources, some from  states,
24
    some from census of manufacturing, so we believe
25

-------
                                                      71




 1    we  have  a  fairly substantial data base here where




 2    we  would be,  in this  mailing,   be touching upon




 3    most  of  the people who would be impacted upon third-




 4    hand.




 5                    So that is our plan.




 6                    MR. WATKINS:     George Watkins,




 7    and I  wonder  if there is any minimize size waste




 8    generation that is not required to notify.  If someone




 9    has a  rather  small amount, does he still -- is he




10    still  required to notify?




n                    MU. LEHMAN:      Sir, that's a good




12    question,  and we are  covering  that point in the




13    Section  3002  standards for generator  of hazardous




!4    wastes.   Our  draft regulations to date indicate that




15    anyone who generates  and disposes of  amounts less




16    than  100 kilograms of hazardous waste per month is




17    exempted from the program, from the notification




ig    program  and from the  manifest  program.




ig                    So that the 100 kilograms is roughly




20    what,  220  pounds, roughly, say, half  of a drum, a




91    55-gallon  drum per month.




m                    The key words  are "generated" and




     "disposed  of" during  the month.  We do not allow




.,     people to  generate small amounts and  accumulate a




     large  amount  before they dispose of them.

-------
                                                         72

                    MR. WATKINS:     Now,  in  that  instance,

2   then, and with respect to  the  answer  that you  gave to

3   the fellow who asked the question  about  the  sewage

    treatment plants, it seems  to  me that  septic systems,

    by and large, have unstabilized sludge.   I would

    guess that some of them, at  least, would  fall  within

    the category that you are  suggesting.

„                   Now, would  everybody  who  is  on a
O
9   septic system have to file  a notification?

1Q                   MR. LEHMAN:      No,  sir. Again,

    this gets back to Section  3002, where  the definition

    of who is a generator is stated.   In  our preliminary

    drafts, we have taken the  position, our  interpretation
13
    of Congressional intent was  that individual  house-
14
    holds from which septic systems generally originate

    are not intended to be covered under  this law.
16
                    So we intend to exempt individual
17
    home owners from this.
18
                    MR. HOWELL:      Ray  Howell  with
19
    Rockwell International.  Just  a question  of  clarity.
20
    On Item 7 in the proposed  form, it states that this is
21
    optional.  You mean whether  I  tell you the amount  I

    generate a year and so forth is optional?  What is
23
    the meaning of  "optional"?

                    MR. LEHMAN:      That's  exactly what

-------
                                                         73



 l    it means.  We  can  come  to  the  conclusion that,  here


 2    again,  getting back  to  one of  the  other questions


 3    about what degree  will  the information be on hand to


 4    simplify notification,  one of  the  concerns is that


 5    people  will  really not  know how  much waste they have


 6    generated in the past,  nor have  they any real good


 7    basis for estimating that  when they have not had the


 g    benefit of knowing what the official definition of


 9    "hazardous waste"  is.


 0                   So we would like to know that informa-


     tion if you  have it  available, but we decided to make


     that an optional item,  in  other  words, not require


     that information to  be  supplied  for the purposes of


     notification,  because later on under Section 3002,
14

     again,  there is a  requirement  for  record keeping


     and reporting  on a routine basis once the system
16

     starts  to roll.
17

                    MR.  HOWELL:      Thank you.
18

                    MR.  PETROLLI:     Joe Petrolli,
19

     Illinois EPA.   If  a  ->tate  has  limited interim
20

     authorization,  can it ask  for  more information, or
21

     are those particular points that you have indicated,
22

     must they be answered and, of  course, would  have to be
23

     part of our  form?
24

                    MR.  SANJOUR:      You can make the
25

-------
                                                      74

    optional ones required.  You can't go the other way.

2                   MR. PETROLLI:    Okay.  One other

g   comment.  I think most other States, and I know

    Illinois for one, we have offered comments when

    necessary, and having been quick to criticize  Sub-

    title C and D, and whatever else submitted, I  think
6

    this particular section has been very well done.

    Something that has been done well I think should  be
8
    noted.
9
                    I feel it should be stated that you
10                                                   *
    have done a good job.  Thank you.

                    MR. LEHMAN:      Thank you very much.
12
    That's very refreshing.
13
                    MR. SHEIL:       Bill Sheil of the
14
    Department of Environmental Control from Nebraska.
15
    I want to second that remark.   I feel this is  one
16
    that has been well done, but a  point, and maybe a
17
    quick concern, if somebody is generating less  than
18
    100 pounds of hazardous waste per month, he is not  in
19
    the system.  Then how do we control that 100  pounds,
20
    if it goes to a regular landfill, not a  secure chemi-
21
    cal landfill?
22
                    There are people out here generating
23
    100 pounds a month going 'co one landfill.  Is  that  a
 24
    concern that you have, or is it in  there?
 25

-------
                                                         75



 1                   MR. LEHMAN:      Okay.   It  certainly



 2   is a concern.  Let me just comment:   It  is  100


 3   kilograms, not 100 pounds.  That was  one of  the


 4   issues that had to be addressed when  we  were dealing


 5   with this quantity exemption.


 6                   It turned out that approximately.


 7   and I forget the exact number, but one would exempt


 8   approximately 50 per cent of all industrial  generators


 9   and 90 per cent of all farmers, if one adopted this


    exemption, but only lose less than one-half  of one


    per cent of the total amount of hazardous waste


12   being generated in this country by doing that.


                    So it is a tradeoff situation.


    You drive the regulations all the way down  to zero,


    or do you lift this a little bit to allow a  somewhat


    special treatment for the small people?
ifa


                    MR. SHEIL:       Then under  Subtitle C


    or Subtitle D,if it is not here in Subtitle  C, then


    it is under Subtitle D?
19

                    MR. LEHMAN:      Exactly.
20

    Let me comment on that.  One of the reasons  we felt
21

    that we could, with good conscience,  lift this limit


    to 100 kilograms was the companion effort under way


    under Subtitle D, which at the same time we  are Impos-


    ing a new regulatory program on hazardous waste.

-------
                                                     76





 i                    There is going to be requirements for




 2    substantial upgrading of normal landfills, non-




 3    hazardous landfills,  as a result of Subtitle D.




 4    So we felt that small amounts of hazardous waste




 5    could be handled properly in a landfill which meets




 6    the new requirements  under Subtitle D.




 7                    MR.  SHEIL:       Thank you.




 8                    MR.  LEHMAN:       Any other questions




 9    about 3010?




10                    MR.  LIENS:       Bradley Liens from




11    Illinois.  What's going to happen if your 3001 mater-




12    ials are challenged  in court and they are suspended?




13    Will the 90-day reporting period still start?




14                    MR.  LEHMAN:       Anne, would you like




15    to address that?




16                    MS.  ALLEN:       I would think not.




 _    If, indeed, your regulations or guidelines or whatever




     are in dispute, then they are not technically taking




     place, so that would be suspended until that issue




     was solved.




                     MR.  LEHMAN:       We don't anticipate




     that, but one always has to be prepared for any




     eventualities.




                     Are  there any other questions on 3010?




     Okay.  As I indicated earlier, we will be happy to

-------
                                                         77




1   answer any other questions about  other parts  of  sub-




2   titles.  We started to do some of   that  already,  and




3   I think you begin to understand that  for this  dis-




4   cussion that there is a substantial crossing  between




5   the various parts.  It is difficult to discuss one




6   part without discussing the other part.




7                   For the reasons stated,  we  felt




8   constrained to proceed with 3010.




                    At this time, I will  close  the formal




10   hearing on the proposed 3010 regulations, and we




11   will go off the record.  We will  take a  break, and




12   when we come back, we will be open  for written or




13   verbal questions about other parts  of Subtitle C.




14   Thank you very much for attending this hearing,  and




15   we will take a 15-minute break and  return at  3:15.




16                   (At 3:00 p. m. the  hearing  was




n   closed.)




18




19




20




21

-------
 1   State of Ohio,       )
 2                       '
    County of Cuyahoga,   )
                                                             78
                      CERTIFICATE
           This certifies that  the  foregoing is a

           true and correct  transcript of the

           proceedings had

           at  (Place:)       Windsor Room
                             Cleveland Plaza  Hotel
           on  (Date:)         Cleveland, Ohio
                             Friday- August  18,  1978
               In the Matter of:

           Proposed  Rules  for Notification of Hazardous
           Waste  Activities RCRA  - Section  3010
           U.  S.  Environmental  Protection Agency
 3

 4

 5

 6

 7

 8

 9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16
                                   REPOBTFR
17

18
                                FINCUM-MANCINI COURT REPORTFRS
19                               1037 Union Commerce Building
                                Cleveland, Ohio 44115
20                                (216)  696-2272

21
23

24

25

-------
                Statement o£  the Independent Liquid Terminals Association



     Mr. Chairman, members of  Che Committee, we appreciate very much your  invitation
                           J  ,   i           ,  .        ,.     •      •    t   ,'.'•• h.  '••*'

to appear at this hearing.  I  am John-£col«jp^—£cfiL&iU*n* of the Independent Liquid


Terminals Association, a national trade association which represents commercial opera-


tors of bulk liquid terminal and tank storage facilities located on the East Coast,


Gulf Coast, West Coast, Great Lakes, and Inland Waterways of the United States,


     ILTA Members operate a total of 150 deepwater and barge terminals in  32 states with


a capacity at any given time to hold 147,000,000 barrels of bulk liquid commodities.


It is estimated that these ILTA terminals handle annually over 588,000,000 barrels of


bulk liquid commodities essential to American business and hence, the American consumer.


These terminals interconnect with and provide services to the various modes of bulk


liquid carriers, namely tankers, tank barges, tank trucks, tank rail cars, and pipelines.


The commodities handled include a wide variety of chemicals, crude oil, refined petro-


leum products, animal fats and oils, molasses, and vegetable oils.


     Terminal facilities, as Committee members are probably well aware, consist of


docks for tankers and tank barges, pumps and equipment for loading and unloading the


vessels, pipelines to and from storage tanks, sometimes pipelines to purchasers and


users of products, and loading and unloading facilities for rail tank cars and tank


trucks.


     ILTA Members own waterside terminal and storage tanks, but largely do not own


the products stored in the tanks.   The products  are usually owned by major oil and


chemical companies, commodity brokers, manufacturers,  and utilities.  ILIA Members


provide  and sell a handling  service at the terminal for onloading or offloading bulk

liquids, and they will store  the product for a fee until the owner needs it or sells

it.

-------
 My  name  is Eugene  C. Bailey.  I am a legistered professional engineer in
 the State of  Illinois and Vice President of Dolio and Metz Ltd.,  a consult-
 ing engineering organization in Chicago.  I am testifying at this joint
 hearing  in behalf  of our client, American Admixtures Corp, and several
 midwestern utility companies.
 I served Commonwealth Edison Company in various engineering capacities  for
more than 40 years.  I was an ex officio member of the Illinois Commission
on Atomic Energy for more than 10 years and Vice Chairman of the Illinois
Boiler Board for 10 years.  Nationally, I have been very active in the
development of the American Society of Mechanical Engineers Boiler and
Pressure Vessel Codes relating to Nuclear Power Plant Components, their
design, maintenance and inservice inspection.  One of the major goals in
my work as an engineer dealing with regulatory agencies of the Federal  and
State governments  has been to achieve simplicity, avoid redundancy and
prevent contradictory overlapping of laws, regulations, codes and standards.

Working for the Illinois Atomic Energy Commission, I trrred-*to- demonstrate-"!
that the public interest could best be served by the State of Illinois
adopting the Federal Regulations relating to the transportation of hazardous
materials in their entirety, by statutory reference, without any changes,
 as  laws for the State of Illinois.
            S-fS,-/// *V/7
This action "Would  simplify: the problem of compliance by industry in the
 same manner as has been achieved by the majority of the states and the
Nuclear Regulatory Commission of the United States by adopting the ASMH
 Boiler and Pressure Vessel Codes Sections III, "Nuclear Power Plant Com-
ponents" and Section XI, "Rules for Inservice Inspection of Nuclear Power
 Plant Components"  as their law.

-------
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-------


-------
ATTENDEE LIST: EPA PUBLIC HEARING  CLEVELAND, OH
Allensworth, Ray
Manager
Quincy Adams Company
R.R. 1
Oernry, IL 62301

Amber, Jerome
Facility Environmental Control
Ford Motor Company
Parklane Towers West #628
Dearborn, MI 48126

Arentson, Robert
Research Associate
Hammermill Paper Company
PO Box 1440
Erie, PA 16533

Bailey, J.B.
Administrator
Republic Steel Corporation
PO Box 6778
Cleveland, OH 44101

Bailey, Eugene
Dolio & Metz Ltd.
208 S. LaSalle St.
Chicago, IL 60604

Balikov, Henry
Environmental Counsel
J.M. Huber Corporation
Thornall St.
Edison, NJ 08817

Barnes, Roy
Liquid Industrial Control
Association
199 Pierce St.
Birmingham, MI 48011

Barta, J.W.
Chemical Project Leader
Huntington Alloys
PO Box 1958
Huntington, WV 25700

Berg, Deborah
Environmental Scientist
Ohio Environmental Protection Agency
2110 E. Aurora Road
Twinsburg, OH 44087
Bergman, Mark
Environmental Technician
Ohio Environmental Protection Agency
2110 E. Aurora Road
Twinsburg, OH 44087

Bhatla, M.N.
Vice President
Roy Weston, Inc.
Weston Way
West Chester, PA 19380

Bickell, Kent
Corporate Ecologist
Bell Corporation
PO Box 5000
Muncie, IN 47302

Bloomgren, Harold
Northwest Engineering, Inc.
Route 62
Tidoute, PA 16351

Boehm, Louis
Manager-Environmental Engineering
Armco, Inc.
PO Box 600
Middletown, OH 45042

Boltz, David
Senior Pollution Control Engineer
Bethlehem Steel Corporation
Martin Tower #B252
Bethlehem, PA 19016

Bourke, R.C.
Supervisor-Environmental Sciences
Detroit Diesel Allison
PO Box 894-S-20
Indianapolis, IN 46206

Branand, David
Senior Counsel
American Mining Congress
1200 18th St NW
Washington, DC 20036

Breed, David
Vice President
New Haven Terminal, Inc.
PO Box 1914
New Haven, CT 06509

-------
Bresland, J.
Manager-Environmental Services
Allied Chemical
PO Box 1086R1
Morristown, NJ 07960

Brubaker, Bruce
Attorney
Diamond Shamrock Corp.
1100 Superior Ave.
Cleveland, OH 44114

Brush, Charles
Environmental Affairs Specialist
Koppers Company, Inc.
2818 Koppers Building
Pittsburgh, PA 15219

Burk, Dennis
Project Engineer
A.P. Green Refractories Company
Green Blvd.
Mexico, MO 65265

Burke, Gail
Environmental Engineer
Commonwealth Edison Company
PO Box 767
Chicago, IL 60690

Cohen, Howard
Senior Management Planner
Northeast Ohio Planning Agency
1501 Euclid Avenue
Cleveland, OH 44115

Clere, Larry
Environmental Engineer
Sun Petroleum Products Company
Toledo, OH 43693

Connor, J.R.
President
Chem-Technics, Inc.
895 Club Road
Pittsburgh, PA 15238

Cunningham, Howard
Manager-Regulatory Compliance
Witco Chemical Corporation
277 Park Ave.
New York, NY 10017

Cunningham, Elizabeth
Senior Environmental Specialist
Standard Oil Company
1748 Guildhall Bldg.
Cleveland, OH
Coburn, D.E.
Technical Director
Rockside Reclamations, Inc.
4100 Brookpoint Road
Cleveland, OH 44135

Cummings, John
Legal Counsel
Owens-Illinois, Inc.
PO Box 1035
Toledo, OH 43666

Danilowicz, Leonard
City Council  Ward 15
3594 Beyerle Road
Cleveland, OH 44105

Detering, William
Design Engineer
TRW, Inc.
23555 Euclid Ave.
Euclid, OH 44117

Eichozn, Robert
Purchasing Manager
TRW, Inc.
23555 Euclid Ave
Euclid, OH 44117

Ericksen, Lee
Adminis trator
Stauffer Chemical Company
Westport, CT 06880

Fawkes, Emerson
Staff Engineer
Union Carbide Corporation
12900 Snow Road
Parma, OH 44130

Firestone, Craig
Assistant Manager
Witco Chemical Corporation
277 Park Ave.
New York, NY 10017

Fehsenfeld, Fred
I.L.W.D., Inc.
7901 W. Morris St.
Indianapolis, IN 46231

Frase, Ronald
Physicist
General Tire & Rubber Company
1 General St.
Akron, OH 44329

-------
Galchas, Solon
Coordinator-Solid Waste
BF Goodrich
6100 Oaktree Blvd.
Independence, OH 44131

Galmarini, Armond
Assistant Plant Engineer
Crucible Steel Corp.
8401 Almira Ave
Cleveland, OH 44102

Garmon, J.J.
Environmental Engineer
Goodyear Tire & Rubber Company
1144 E. Market St.
Akron, OH 44316

Gaugush, F.c.
Director-Environmental Control
Sherwin Williams Company
101 Prospect Ave.
Cleveland, OH 44115

Gillen, Art
Environmental Protection Engineer
BASF-Wyandotte
PO Box 181
Parsippany, NJ 07054

Gunsel, Steven
Manager Pollution Control
Harshaw Chemical Company
1945 E. 97th St.
Cleveland, OH 44106

Hamilton, Jim
Chemist
Ace Oil Service, Inc.
876 Otter Creek Road
Oregon, OH 43616

Hanna, Joan
Natural Resources Committee
Women's League of Voters
26631 Lake Shore Road
Euclid, OH 44132

Hayman, Edward
Squire, Sanders & Dempsey
1800 Union commerce Bldg.
Cleveland, OH 44115
Houke, Rae
Manager-Environmental Control
Rockwell International
600 Grant St.
Pittsburgh, PA 15219

lannone, Donald
Management Planner
NOACA
1501 Euclid Ave
Cleveland, OH 44125

Ito, T.
Goodyear Tire and Rubber Company
1144 E. Market St.
Akron, OH 44316

Japwage, Mary
Reporter
Cleveland Plains Dealer
1801 Superior Ave
Cleveland, OH 16046

Jones, Robert
Director-Solid Waste
Floyd Browning & Associates
181 S. Main St.
Marion, OH 43302

Karam, A.J.
Director-Government Relations
Central Foundry Division
77 W.  Center St.
Saginaw, MI 48605

Katona, Dr. Alex,
Corporate Manager
Hooker chemical Company
222 Rainbow Blvd. North
Niagra Falls, NY 14302

Keister, Forest
Republic Steel Corporation
PO Box 6
Buffalo, NY 14220

Kerns, B.A.
Manager-Environmental Control
Westinghouse'Electric Corp.
1601 Westinghouse Bldg.
Pittsburgh, PA 15222

-------
Komoroski, Kenneth
Environmental Engineer
PPG Industries
1 Gateway Center
Pittsburgh, PA 15222

Koski, Frank
President
Reserve Environmental Service
5841 Woodman Ave
Ashtabula, OH 44004

Knight, Bruce
Technical Coordinator
Marathon Oil Company
539 S. Main
Findlay, OH 45840

Krasker, Bruce
Assistant Council
Defense Property Disposal Svc.
Federal Center
Battle Creek, MI 49016

Kunkle, George
Jones & Henry Engineers Ltd.
2000 W. Central Ave
Toledo, OH 43606

Laman, J.R.
Corporate Manager
Firestone Tire S. Rubber Co.
1200 Firestone Parkway
Akron, OH 44301

McCauley, Ruth
Environmental Quality
Euclid League of women Voters
23780 Hartland Ave
Euclid, OH 44123

McHugh, Gerard
Project Engineer
General Refractories Co.
600 Grant St. #3000
Pittsburgh, PA 15219

Machol, Scott
Junior Engineer
Cleveland Electric Illuminating
PO Box 5000
Cleveland, OH 44114
Manchen, Kenneth
Environmental Engineer
Eaton Corporation
32500 Chardon Road
Willoughby Hills, OH 44095

Mattes, Edward
Special Projects Analyst
J.M. Huber Corporation
Thornall St.
Edison, NJ 08817

Mauer, Kenneth
Environmental Analyst
Toledo Edison
300 Madison Ave
Toledo, OH 43652

Mullen, Hugh
Director-Government Relations
IU Conversion Systems, Inc.
3624 Market St.
Philadelphia, PA 19104

Parker, Dr. Hampton
Environmental Affairs
Union Carbide Corporation
270 Park Ave.
New York, NY 10017

Piantanida, Lillian
Assistant Manager
Intl. Lead Zinc Research Organization
292 Madison Ave
New York, NY 10017

Pincura, Paul
Senior Management Planner
NOAZA
1501 E. Euclid Ave
Cleveland, OH

Poland, Virgil
Quality Control Manager
SCA Services, Inc.
1550 Balmer Road
Model City, NY 14107

Prendergast, J.
Attorney
Republic Steel Corporation
PO Box 6778
Cleveland, OH 44212

-------
Samuels, John
Senior Project Engineer
General Motors-Environmental Act.
GM Technical Center
Warren, Ml 48090

Saverino, Joseph
Chemical Engineer
American Insurance Association
85 John St.
New York, NY 10038

Shell, M.W.
Chief-Solid Waste
Nebraska Dept. Environmental Control
Lincoln, NE

Sheridan, John
Associate Editor
Industry Week Magazine
Penton Plaza
Cleveland, OH 44114

Schmitt, Robert
Hazardous Materials Specialist
Firestone Tire & Rubber Co.
1200 Firestone Parkway
Akron, OH

Scott, Michael
Corporate Counsel
Mooney Chemicals, Inc.
2301 Scranton Road
Cleveland, OH

Simmons, Donald
Engineer
National Steel Corp.
2800 Grant Building
Pittsburgh, PA 15219

Smith, Michael
Environmental Manager
Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co.
1144 E. Market St.
Akron, OH 44316

Smith, Dr. Hugh
Sun Chemical Company
4526 Chickering
Cincinnati, OH 45232

Spearing, E.A.
Environmental Coordinator
DuPont
2981 Independence Road
Cleveland, OH 44115
Statham, Haywood
Regional Planning Commission
415 The Arcade
Cleveland, OH 44114

Suzuki, Robert
Senior Engineer
Mobay Chemical Corporation
Penn-Lincoln Parkway W.
Pittsburgh, PA 15205

Taylor, Jack
Chemist
State Department of Health
1800 Washington St. East
Charleston, WV 25304

Toothaker, Anne
Specialist-Regulatory Affairs
General Electric Company
Bldg. 36  Room 120
Schenectedy, NY 12345

Vaughters, Alans
Waste Management Specialist
Monsanto Research Corp.
Mound Facility
Miamisburg, OH 45242

Waliguran, Thomas
Environmental Control
Wheeling-Pittsburgh Steel Corp.
Duvall Center
Wheeling, WV 26003

Watkins, George
Lake Erie Watershed Conservation
Foundation
1204 Superior Bldg.
Cleveland, OH 44114

Weiss, Helen
Women Speak Out For Peace & Justice
2020 Taylor Road #715
E. Cleveland, OH 44112

Wertz, Russell
Engineer
Havens & Emerson Inc.
745 Craig Road
St. Louis, MO 63141

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Wiens, Bradley
Water Treatment & Lubrication
Owens-Illinois
PO Box 1035
Toledo, OH 43666

Williams, H.B.
Director-Environmental Services
Sherwin Williams, Inc.
101 Prospect Ave
Cleveland, OH 44115

Wojcik, Stanley
Division Manager
Dow Chemical Company
PO Box 36000
Strongsville, OH 44136
                                                 ya!737a

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                         TRANSCRIPT




                           Public Hearing

                          on Proposed Rules

           for Notification of Hazardous  Waste Activities

             August 21, 1978, Charleston, South Carolina
      This hearing was sponsored by EPA, Office of Solid Waste,
and the proceedings (SW-44p) are reproduced entirely as  transcribed
       by the official reporter, with handwritten corrections.
                U.S.  ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION  AGENCY

                                1978

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 1                  PROCEEDINGS OF A PUBLIC HEARING  ON  PROPOSED

 2             RULES FOR NOTIFICATION OF HAZARDOUS WASTE ACTIV-

 3             ITIES HELD ON MONDAY, AUGUST THE  21ST, 1978  IN

 4             THE AZALEA ROOM, HOLIDAY INN  (AIRPORT),  CHARLESTON,

 5             SOUTH CAROLINA

 6

 7                             Panel Members

 8             Jack Lehman, Director, Hazardous  Waste Manage-
                   ment Division, EPA, Washington,  D.C.
 9
              George Harlow, Acting Director, Air and
10                  Hazardous Materials Division, EPA,
                   Region IV
11
              John Dickinson, Region IV, Air and Hazardous
12                  Materials Division

13             Bill Sanjour, Chief, Assessment  & Technology
                   Branch, Hazardous Waste Management  Division
14
              Tim Fields, Program Manager, Technology  Program,
15                  Hazardous Waste Management  Division

16             Bill Snyder, Technology Program,  Hazardous
                   Waste Management Division
17
              Amy Schaffer, Office of Enforcement,  EPA
18
              Anne Allen, Attorney, Management  and  Information
19                  Staff, OSW, EPA

20                  THE HEARING WAS CALLED TO ORDER  AT  1:00 p.m.

21                  MR. HARLOW:  Good afternoon,  ladies and gen-

22        tlemen.  My name is George Harlow and  I am Director  of

23        the Air and Hazardous Materials Division Office,  EPA,

24        Atlanta, Georgia.  It is my pleasure  to welcome you

25        to Region IV on behalf of the Regional Administrator,

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 1        Mr.  John C. White.  We want to thank you for your




 2        interest in this meeting and I am looking forward to




 3        your participation in the EPA's ruleYAoXxw^ for the




 4        Resource  Conservation  and Recovery Act of 1976.




 5             It is EPA's belief that broad public participation




 6        is needed in developing our regulations so that they




 ^        will be understandable, practical, effective, and




 8        efficient.  I want to especially thank the State Solid




 9        Waste Directors who have participated in the develop-




10        ment of the proposed rules to be discussed here this




11        afternoon.  We place high priority on developing State




12        environmental programs in Region IV and we will empha-




13        size development of strong, safe, hazardous programs




14        under the Act.




15             This hearing is the second of three public hear-




16        ings being held to receive comments on proposed regula-




1'        tions to implement some of the provisions of the




18        Resource  Conservation  Recovery Act.  These proposed




19        rules set forth the procedures for a preliminary




20        notification of hazardous  waste activities.  They




21        define administrative procedure under which States may




22        be granted limited interim authority to receive notifi-




23        cation of generation, transportation, and disposal of




24        hazardous waste, and to specify the procedures for




25        filing such notification by persons conducting hazardous

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 1        waste activities.

 2             Jack Lehman, Director of the Hazardous Waste

 3       lAftosft.c^mtrd' Division, EPA, in Washington will conduct

 4        the hearing and I turn the meeting over to him now to

 5        set the ground rules for individual panel members and

 6        for further discussion of the proposed regulations.

 7                  MR. LEHMAN:  Thank you, George.  I would

 8        like to introduce the panel members to you now.  The

 9        panel here with me is composed of members of the Office

10        of Solid Waste/Hazardous Waste Management Division,

11        -^he Management and Information Staff of the Office of

12        Solid Waste, "Vhe Office of Enforcement - all of these

13        in Washington, D.C., and as you can tell, representa-

14        tives of EPA's Region IV office in Atlanta.  These

15        people specialize in certain subject areas related to

16        this issue.

17             On my left is Bill Sanjour, Chief of the Assessment

18        and Technology Branch of the Hazardous Waste Management
                                                                 i
19        Division of the Office of Solid Waste.  Next to him is

20        John Dickinson of the Air and Hazardous Materials

21        Division of the Region IV office in Atlanta; and on my

22        far left is Amy Schaffer of the Toxic Substances Branch

23        of the Enforcement Division, Office of Enforcement, in

24        Washington,D.C.  On my right, you already have met

25        George,  and on his right is Tim Fields, who is the

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 1        Program Manager of our Technology Program in the

 2        Assessment and Technology Branch in the Hazardous

 3        Waste Management Division, and also I might mention

 4        the principle author of the 3010 regulations which

 5        we will discuss here today.  And next to him is Bill

 6        Snyder of our Technology Program in the Assessment and
                                        ftax\
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 1        more than one such notification shall be required to


 2        be filed with respect to the same substance.  No


 3        identified or listed hazardous waste subject to this


 4        Subtitle may be transported, treated, stored, or dis-


 5        posed of unless notification has been given as re-

                                      »
 6        quired under this Subsection.


 7             The EPA proposed regulations implements this sec-


 8        tion of the Act in the Federal Register on July llth


 9        of 1978.  Copies of the proposed regulations and the


10        Act are available at the registration table.  I'm also


11        presenting a copy of the proposed regulations for the


12        record.


13             These proposed rules specify who might file


14        notification of hazardous waste activity, when and


15        where the notification must be filed, and what infor-


16        mation such notification must contain.


17             An example of the forms suggested for use in


18        this process is also included.  These proposed rules


19        also contain provisions whereby States may obtain


20        authorization to receive and manage this initial


21        notification program.


22             The Resource Conservation and Recovery Act of


23        1976 provides that regulations shall be promulgated


24        only after notice and opportunity for public hearing.


25             So, let me lay the groundwork on rules for the

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 1        conduct of this hearing.   The focus of a public hear-




 2        ing is on the public's response for a regulatory pro-




 3        posal by the agency.  The purpose of the hearing,




 4        as announced in the July llth Federal Register is to




 5        solicit comments on the proposed regulations, including




 6        any background information used to develop the regula-




 7        tions.




 8             This public hearing is being held, not primarily




 9        to inform the public  or to defend a proposed regula-




10        tion, but more to obtain the public's response to EPA's




11        proposed regulations and thereafter revise the regula-




12        tions as may be deemed appropriate.




13             All major substantive comments made at the hearing




14        will be addressed at the time of final promulgation.




15        The anticipated date of final promulgation is the Spring




16        of 1979.




17             This will not be a formal adjudicatory hearing




18        with the right to cross-examination.  The members of




19        the public are to present their views on the proposed




20        regulations to the panel, and the panel may ask ques-




21        tions of the people presenting statements to clarify




22        any ambiguities in their presentation.




23             if any member of the audience wants a question




24        asked of another member of the public, he will be




25        allowed to write the question and pass it to the panel,

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                                                            7






 1        at which time the panel may ask the question of the




 2        appropriate person, and that person will be given the




 3        opportunity to respond accordingly.




 4             Now, during registration, blank cards were passed




 5        out to you and we ask that you list your questions on




 6        these cards,and then the panel will ask them if they




 7        are relevant to the statement presented.




 8             Due to time limitation the Chairman reserves the




 9        right to limit lengthy questions, discussions, or state-




10        ments.   We would ask that those of you who have prepared




11        statements to make orally, please limit your presenta-




12        tion to a maximum of ten minutes so that we can get to




13        all statements in a reasonable time.  The written state-




I4        ments will be included in their entirety in the record.




'5        Written prepared statements will be accepted at the




16        end of the hearing, and so if you wish to provide a




17        statement, but do not present it orally, that can be




18        accomplished.




'"             Persons wishing to make an oral statement who have




2"        not made an advanced request by telephone or in writing^




2'        should indicate their interest on the registration card.




22        If you have not indicated your intent to give a state-




23        ment and then decide to do so,  please return to the




24        registration table, fill out another card, and give it




25        to one of the staff.

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 1             As we call upon an individual to make a statementj



 2        he should come up to the lectern and after identifying



 3        himself for the court reporter, deliver his statement.



 4        At the beginning of the statement I'll inquire as to



 5        whether the speaker is willing to entertain questions



 6        from the panel and the audience.  The speaker is under



 7        no obligation to do so, although within the spirit of



 8        this information sharing meeting it would be of great



 9        assistance to the Agency if questions were permitted.



10             Anyone wishing to make a statement will have an



11        opportunity to do so, even if we have to run the hear-



12        ing in the evening.



13             We will recess for about fifteen minutes around



14        three-thirty and trie hearing is scheduled to break for



15        dinner at  lt>  o'clock, if we have not completed before.



16        The hearing will continue into the evening, if necessary



17        Messages will be received at the registration desk,



18        so you can check there for messages.  Restrooms are



19        straight out the door straight ahead.  When you come



20        forward to make a statement we suggest you give a copy



21        of that statement ro the court reporter.



22             if you wish to be added to our mailing list for



23        future regulations, draft regulations, or proposed



24        regulations, please leave your business card or mailing



25        address on a three by five card at the registration

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 1        desk.



 2             The court reporter is present here today.  The



 3        statements, questions, and comments will become part



 4        of the public record and this record will be available



 5        for public inspection in the Docket Section, Room 2111,



 6        of the Hazardous Waste Management Division, Office of



 7        Solid Waste, U.S.   Environmental Protection Agency,



 8        401 M Street SW., Washington, D.C. 20460.  A copy of the



 9        transcript will be available on request to all regis-



10        trants here today in about two or three months.



11             In addition to the public hearing in Charleston



12        today, an identical hearing was held in Cleveland, Ohio



13        on this last Friday, August 18th, and one will be held



14        in San Francisco on Thursday, August the 24th.  Persons



15        not wishing to deliver a statement today may send a



16        written statement to the address noted in the Federal



17        Register before the closing of that Docket, which is



18        September llth, 1978.



19             Now, I would like to turn the hearing over to Bill



20        Sanjour, who will give you an overview of the Subtitle



21        C Regulation on Hazardous Waste Management, how they



22        function and how the proposed regulation on preliminary



23        notification on hazardous waste activities fits into



24        this framework.  Bill!



25                  MR. SANJOUR:  Thank you, Jack.  Before I give

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                                                           10






 1        you an overview on the interrelationships of the various




 2        sections of the Act,please note that each of the sectiors




 3        I am about to describe is a separate regulation and




 4        that public hearings will be held on each of these




 5        regulations as is proposed.




 6             I would ask that you please keep in mind that




 7        we are here today to address only the proposed Federal




 8        regulations defining procedures for notification of




 9        hazardous waste activities, and procedures whereby




10        States may receive special authorization to manage




11        this notification program.




12             You will have the opportunity to comment on the




13        other sections of the Act which deal with the definitior




14        of hazardous waste and the detailed standards regarding




15        generation, treatment, storage, and disposal of these




16        wastes as each of +-ht other regulations is proposed.




17        Therefore, it would ensure the most effective use of




18        everyone's time here today if you would mentally review




19        and edit youi" statements and questions accordingly in




20        order to minimize the involvement of these or other




21        sections and to maximize our focus on the proposed




22        regulations for notification of hazardous waste




23        activity.




24             Subtitle C of the Solid Waste Disposal Act, as




25        amended by the Resource Conservation and Recovery Act
i

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                                                           11


 1        of 1976 creates a regulatory framework to control

 2        hazardous waste.  Congress has found that such waste

 3        presents special dangers to the health, to health that

 4        requires a greater degree of regulations that does not  j
                                                                 1
 5        have this solid waste.

 6             Because of the seriousness of this problem, Congress}

 7        intended that the States develop programs to control it.

 8        in the event that States do not choose to operate this

 9        program, EPA is mandated to do so.  Seven guidelines

10        of regulations are being developed and composed on this

11        Subtitle C to implement the National Hazardous Waste

12        Management Regulatory Program.

13             it is important to note that the definition of

14        solid waste in the Act encompasses garbage, refuse,

15        sludges, and other discarded materials, including

16        liquids, semi-solids that contain gases, with a few

17        exceptions from both municipal and industrial sources.

18             Hazardous wastes, which are a subset of all solid

19        wastes, and which will be defined  by regulation under

20        Section 3001, are those which have particularly signifi-

2i        cant impacts on public health and the environment.

22             Subtitle C creates a management control system,

23        which for those wastes defined as hazardous,requires

24        a cradle-to-grave cognizance,  including appropriate

2        monitoring,  record keeping,  and reporting throughout

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                                                           12






 1        the system.



 2             Section 3001 requires EPA to define criteria and



 3        methods for identifying and listing hazardous waste.



 4        Wastes identified as hazardous are then included in



 5        the management control system constructed under Sections



 6        3002, 3006,  and Section 3010, the section we will be



 7        discussing here today.



 8             Those that are excluded will be subject to the



 9        requirements of non-hazardous wastes which are being



10        carried out by States under Subtitle D, under which



11        open dumping is prohibited and environmentally



12        acceptable practices are required.



13             Section 3001 regulations should be published as



14        proposed rules in December of 1978.  Section 3002



15        addresses the standards applicable to generators.



16        EPA's regulations under this section describes the



17        classes of generators for whom some requirements may



18        vary.  For example, the Agency does not interpret the



19        intent of Congress to include regulation of individual



20        home owners due to small quantities of hazardous waste



21        which they may generate.



22             Section 3002 also requires the creation ot a



23        manifest system which will track waste from the point



24        of generation to the ultimate disposition.



25             Section 3002 should be published as a proposed

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                                                           13






 1        rule in December of 1978.



 2             Section 3003 addresses standards affecting trans-



 3        porters of hazardous waste to assure that the waste is



 4        carefully managed during the transport phase.  The



 5        Agency explored opportunities for mpshing closely with



 6        the proposed and current U.S.   Department of Transporta-



 7        tion regulations to avoid duplication in the transports-



 8        tion area.



 9             Section 3003 regulations were published in the



10        Federal Register as proposed rules on April 28, 1978



11        and the public hearing on them was held on June 20th,



12        1978.  Additional hearings will be scheduled in the



13        future.



14             Section 3004 addresses standards affecting owners



15        and operators of hazardous waste storage, treatment,



16        and disposal facilities.  These standards define the



17        levels of public health and environmental protection



18        to be achieved by these facilities and provide the



19        criteria against which EPA will measure applications



20        for permits.



21             Facilities on a generator's property, as well as



22        offs'vte-   facilities, are covered by these regulations



23        and do require permits.  Generators and transporters



24        do not otherwise need permits.  I would like to re-



25        emphasize that.  The only people who require permits

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                                                           14






 1        are those who treat, store, and dispose of hazardous




 2        waste - not generators and not transporters, unless




 3        they also treat, store, and dispose.




 4             Section 3004 should be published as a proposed




 5        rule in December of 1978.




 6             Section 3005 regulations describe the scope and




 7        coverage of the actual permit granting process for




 8        facility owners and operators.  Requirements for the




 9        permit application, as well as for the issuance and




10        revocation process, are to be defined by these regula-




11        tions.  It should be noted that Section 3005(e) provide:




12        for an interim permit during the time period that the




13        Agency or the State are reviewing the pending applica-




14        tions.




15             Section 3005 regulations should be published as




16        proposed rules in December of 1978.




17             Section 3006 requires EPA to issue guidelines for




18        State hazardous waste programs and procedures by which




19        States may seek both full and interim authorization




20        to carry out the hazardous waste program in lieu of the




21        EPA administered program.  States seeking authorization




22        in accordance with Section 3006 guidelines are not




23        required to adopt in the entirety all Federal hazard-




24        ous waste management regulations promulgated under




25        Subtitle C in order to achieve EPA authorization.  Such

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                                                            15






 1        State regulatory program need only demonstrate that



 2        their hazardous waste management regulations are con-



 3        sistent with and equivalent, in effect, to those EPA



 4        regulations and that adequate enforcement exists in



 5        order to receive EPA authorization under Section 3006



 6        to operate and impose a hazardous waste management pro-



 7        gram.



 8             Section 3006 guidelines were published in the



 9        Federal Register as proposed rules on February 1st,



10        1978.  Final rules will be promulgated by December of



11        1978.



12             Section 3010 regulations define procedures by



13        which any person generating, transporting, owning



14        or operating a facility for storage, treatment, and/or



15        disposal of hazardous waste must notify EPA of this



16        activity within 90 days of promulgation of the regula-



17        tions which define hazardous waste - that is, the regu-



18        lations promulgated under Section 3001.



19             EPA has made provision in these regulations for



20        States to be delegated this notification function upon



21        application to the appropriate EPA Regional Administra-



22        tor.



23             It is significant to note that no hazardous waste



24        subject to Subtitle C regulations may be legally



25        transported, treated, or stored, or disposed, unless

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                                                           16






 1        this timely notification is given to EPA or a desig-



 2        nated State.  The Agency intends to propose draft



 3        regulations during December of 1978 for the remaining



 4        sessions of Subtitle C.  Final regulations will be



 5        promulgated in 1959.  However, it is important for



 6        the regulative community to understand that the regula-



 7        tions under Section 3001 through 3005 do not take



 8        effect until six months after promulgation.  Thus,



 9        there will be a time period after final promulgation



10        during which public understanding of the regulations



11        can be increased.  During the same period, notifications



12        required under Section 3010 are to be submitted.



13        Facility permit applications required under Section



14        3005 will be distributed  for completion by applicants



15        and State programs will be authorized by EPA.



16             Now, for a more detailed look at Section 3010



17        regulations, which we are here today to discuss, I'm



         going to turn this meeting over to Tim Fields, who will



19        discuss the 3010 proposed rules.



20                  MR. FIELDS:  Thank you, Bill.  Section 3010



21        of RCRA requires that all persons generating, trans-



22        porting, treating, storing, or disposing of the hazard-



23        ous wastes which have been identified under the Section



24        3001 regulations to notify.



25             Persons who initiate such activities after the

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                                                            17






 1        date of the promulgation of Section  3001 regulations,




 2        or revisions thereof, are not required  to  notify pur-




 3        suant to these rules.  However, these new  entrants




 4        into the hazardous waste arena will  be  required to




 5        notify EPA, or an authorized State,  pursuant  to the




 6        Section 3002, Generator Standards; Section 3003, Trans-




 ^        porter Standards; and 3005, Facility Permit Requirement;




 8             The regulations under Section 3001, which is  the




 9        hazardous waste definition, 3002, 3003, 3004, and  3005,




10        become effective six months after they  are promulgated.




11        The date of promulgation of the Section 3001  regulation;




12        begin the notification period.  This notification




13        period extends for 90 days, during which time all  per-




14        sons subject to these regulations must  notify EPA, or




15        an authorized State.  Within the six month period




16        following the promulgation of the Section  3001 regula-




17        tions, those persons required to obtain a  facility per-




18        mit,required by the Section 3005 regulations, must  apply



19        for that permit.  Owners or operators of existing




20        facilities requiring such a permit who  satisfactorily




21        comply with two requirements, these  being  to  notify




22        pursuant to Section 3010 regulations and to apply  for




23        a facility permit required by the Section  3005 regula-




24        tions - these two conditions will be qualified for




25        interim standards until the full permit is issued.

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                                                           18




 1        Failure to satisfy both of these requirements will



 2        jeopardize interim standards and will prevent such



 3        persons from legally transporting,  treating,  storing,



 4        or disposing of hazardous waste.



 5             There are several special cases of which I'd like



 g        to bring to your attention regarding the Section 3010



 7        regulations.  These special cases are as follows: f\um-



 8        ber one—in the case of corporations.  A person owning



 g        and operating more than one place of operation may file



10        the single notification for all facilities providing-



^        a)  that all required information is clearly stated



12        separately for each place of operation, and  b) that



13        copies of the pertinent information in this single noti-



14        fication is sent to each EPA Regional Office or



15        authorized State having jurisdiction over the area in



ig        which the place of operation is located.



17             Secondly, the case of highway transporters.  A



18        responsible individual shall file notification for



19        each terminal the transporter owns and utilizes for



20        vehicles transporting hazardous wastes.



21             Thirdly, the case of railroad or pipeline companies



22        A responsible individual may file a single notification



23        for the entire rail line or pipe line provided that



24        copies of this notification are sent to the appropriate



25        EPA Regional Office or authorized State having juris-

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                                                           19






 1        diction over the area in which the railroad or pipe-



 2        line is located.



 3             And, fourthly,  in the case of Federal agencies^,



 4        these rules regarding preliminary verification of



 5        hazardous waste activities apply in the same manner



 6        as other persons covered by these regulations.



 7             Section 3001 regulations defining hazardous waste



 8        will probably be revised from time to time to identify



 9        or list additional hazardous wastes.   These regulations



!0        require the generators, transporters, treaters, storers,



11        and disposers to notify the EPA or authorized States



12        90 days after such a revision.  Those persons who are



13        unaffected by a revision of Section 3001 regulations



14        need not submit additional notification at the time



15        of this revision.



16             In addition, persons who are affected by such a



17        revision to the Section 3001 regulations may also be



         required to apply for either a new or a revised



19        facility permit before the revised Section 3001 regula-



2"        tions become effective, which is six months after they



21        are promulgated.



22             Notification must be filed with the appropriate



23        EPA Regional Administrator or State which has been



24        granted authorization for management of the notification



         program.

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                                                           20





 1             The second part of the regulations is the actual



 2        authorization procedures for States.  These proposals



 3        establish procedures for authorizing States to manage



 4        the notification program.  These rules will be promul-



 5        gated before the Section 3001 regulations are promul-



 6        gated in order to give States an opportunity to obtain



 7        this special authorization before promulgation of the



 8        Section 3001 regulations initiates the 90 day notifica-



 9        tion period.



10             The EPA and the authorized States must be ready



11        to receive notification when the Section 3001 regula-



12        tions become effective.  A list of the names and



13        addresses of State agencies authorized to receive



14        notification will he published in the Federal Register



15        prior to or at the time of promulgation of the Section



16        3001 regulations or revisions thereof.



17             States will be authorized to receive notification



18        from affected persons pursuant to the provisions of



19        these regulations.  This authorization will be called



20        "limited interim authorization," and, if granted,will



21        be granted separate and apart from the interim or full



22        authorization granted pursuant to the Section 3006



23        State Hazardous Waste Program Guidelines.



24             Few or many States will have the Section 3006



25        interim or full authorization before or during the 90

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                                                            21



 1        day notification period.  However,  it  is EPA's policy

 2        to allow  those States  that are  likely  to be granted

 3        such authorization  to  also be granted  the  authority

 4        to manage the notification program.  It is important

 5        to note that notification required  subsequent to  this

 6        initial notification period, which  might occur as  a

 7        result of revisions to Section  3001 regulations, when

 8        not administered by the EPA Region  shall be conducted

 9        only by States having  the Section 3006 authorization.

10        Limited interim authorization,  therefore,  is a one

11        time authorization which terminates on the date six

12        months after the promulgation of the Section 3001

13        regulations.  If a State which  has  been granted limited

14        interim authorization  fails to  apply for,  or receives

15        interim or full authorization pursuant to  Section  3006,

16        the EPA must assume responsibility  for managing the

17        subsequent regulatory  requirements  of  Subtitle C.

'8        This joint program administration can  create problems  -
                                                                 i
19        for example, an efficient processing of applications

20        for facility permits which are  received during the six

21        month period following promulgation of the Section 3001

22        regulations.  To minimize such  potential problems, these

23        proposed  rules impose  special requirements upon States

24        in order  to obtain this limited interim authorization.

25             Further, the authorized States will be encouraged

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                                                           22






 1        to operate and manage the notification program in the




 2        same or an improved    manner to that employed by EPA




 3        in order to achieve as much national uniformity as




 4        possible.  This will simplify the notification burden




 5        of those persons who may have to notify for hazardous




 6        waste activities conducted in two or more States.




 7        The manner in which the State intends to carry out the




 8        notification program will be articulated in a plan




 9        that a State submits as part of its request for limited




10        interim authorization.  The degree of equivalency with




11        EPA's management of the notification process will be




12        one of the criteria in use by the EPA Regional Adminis-




13        trator to determine whether to grant authorization.




14        If the Regional Administrator finds the State applica-




15        tion acceptable, he or she shall execute an agreement




16        with that State ,signed by the Regional Administrator




1'        and an official of the responsible State agencyj to




18        grant it  limited interim authorization to implement




19        Section 3010 requirements.  All such agreements shall




20        be effective no later than 120 calendar days after




21        promulgation of thess preliminary notification regula-




22        tions and shall terminate on a date, as I said before,




23        six months after promulgation of the Section 3001 regu-




24        lations.




25             if a State is granted limited interim authoriza-

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                                                            23






 1        tion by the EPA to manage the notification program,




 2        all persons conducting hazardous waste activities  in




 3        that State will be required to notify the responsible




 4        State agency.  If a State hazardous waste definition




 5        is more stringent than that promulgated under  Section




 6        3001 regulations, then the applicable State agency




 7        could use this definition for the purpose of notifica-




 8        tion by affected persons in that State.  State hazardous




 9        waste definitions which are less stringent than that




10        promulgated under the Section 3001 regulations cannot




11        be used for notification purposes.




12             With respect to notification submitted to EPA,




13        these proposed rules would allow affected persons  to




14        make confidentiality claims in three areas of their




15        notification responses.  These are, first of all,




16        describing the types of hazardous waste handled, as




1?        identified by characteristics under Section 3001




18        regulations; secondly, the case of describing hazardous




19        waste handled as identified by listing under Section




20        3001 regulations; and thirdly, in the estimate quantity




21        of hazardous wastes handled annually, which is an




22        optional item.




23             Comments are requested from interested persons as




24        to which notification items should provide for a




25        confidentiality claim, and reasons why each such item

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                                                           24






 1        should be considered confidential.




 2             The EPA is considering requiring affected persons




 3        to provide substantiation of their confidentiality




 4        claims at the time of initial notification.  There are




 5        two options in this area.




 6             The first option is the one in these proposed




 7        rules.  Affected persons would be allowed to make con-




 8        fidentiality claims without providing substantiation




 9        at the time of initial notification.  If a request for




10        information submitted was made later, EPA would then




11        request that the affected persons provide substantiatior




12        of confidentiality claims in accordance with the con-




13        fidentiality of business information regulations.  If




14        there are a large number of requests from the public




15        for copies of notification responses, there will be a




16        burden on the EPA Regional Office resources to request




17        substantiation from each submitter.




18             The second option is designed to avoid that




19        problem by rfiQU\f HTV submission of substantiation of




20        such claims at the time of initial notification.  EPA




21        would not have to go back to submitters again if re-




22        quests were received by EPA for notification responses




23        containing confidentiality claims.  However, this would




24        place an additional initial reporting burden upon




25        affected persons.

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                                                           25



 1             Comments are requested on these or other options


 2        for the confidential information and for having con-


 3        fidentiality claims.  In addition,  suggestions on ways


 4        of making the notification items reasonably accepted


 5        to the public will be appreciated.


 6             These sample rules also contain a sample form


 7        for use in filing notification.  The use of this farm


 8        is not mandatory, but its use is encouraged to facili-


 9        tate the'notification process.  To  assist in complying


10        with these rules, the EPA intends to mail the sample


11        forms and instructions to all known persons who may be


12        required to notify.   EPA will also  encourage States


13        managing the notification program to use a similar


14        procedure.


15             Failure of the Agency or the authorized States to


16        reach any affected persons will not         relieve that


17        person of the legal requirements to notify.  If a person


18        fully and accurately completes and  returns the form     ,
                                                                 i

19        presented in the back of these regulations for each     |


20        place of operation,  the person would have complied with


21        the requirements of these regulations.


22             if a person chooses not to use this suggested form,


23        that person must file the written notification stating


24        clearly and legibly the following information for each


25        place of operation:

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                                                           26






 1                  1)  The nane of the organization and place



 2             of operation.



 3                  2)  The mailing address and the place of



 4             operation.



 5                  3)  The principal activity and the place of



 6             operation.



 7                  4)  An identification number for the place of



 8             operation.



 9                  5}  The name and telephone number and address



10             of the responsible individual at the place of



11             operation who can be contacted for clarification



12             of information submitted in the notification.



13                  6)  The certification of the information sub-



14             mitted as complete and accurate.



15                  7)  The types of hazardous waste activity



16             conducted by the person, i.e., generation, trans-



17             portation, treatment, storage, or disposal of



18             hazardous waste.



19                  8)  The types of hazardous waste handled by



20             the person, as identified by characteristics under



21             Section 3001 regulations.  All wastes which are



22             ignitable, reactive, infectious, radioactive, or



23             corrosive must be described as such.  However,



24             persons who cannot in the 90 day period allowed



25             definitively determine whether their wastes are

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                                                            27






 1              toxic may  so  indicate.   If,  after  the  90  day



 2              period,  it is determined that  a waste  is  non-toxic



 3              a  statement to  this  effect must be filed  no  later



 4              than 180 days after  promulgation of the Section



 5              3001 regulations.  Otherwise,  the  person  will be



 6              considered for  notification  purposes to be con-



 7              ducting  hazardous waste  activities.  It should be



 8              noted that there is  a mistake  in item  number  five



 9              on the sample form in the regulations.  We're not



10              allowing an undetermined response  for  the radio-



11              active and the  corrosive characteristics.  The



12              last item  we're requiring in the notification



13              response iS their description  of the hazardous



14              waste handled,  as identified by listing under the



15              Section  3001 regulations, or by the general type



16              and specific content.  For example,  you could



1'              indicate you have "wastewater  treatment sludge



18              containing lead contents."



19                 10)  You must provide a statement indicating



20              what information, if any, is to be considered con-



21              fidential  business information.



22                  And,  lastly, the last item is an  option



23              item, you  must  provide,  if available,  an  estimate



24              of the annual amount of  hazardous  waste handled



25              based on the period of January  1977,  through

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                                                           28






 1             December  1977.   For affected persons not conduct-




 2             ing hazardous waste activities during any or all of




 3             that period,  the annual volume should be estimated




 4             in the best practical manner.




 5        I  would like to now turn the hearing over to Ms.  Amy




 6        Schaffer who will address the enforcement aspect  of




 7        these regulations.




 8                  MS. SCHAFFER:   Good afternoon.   I would like




 9        to just speak very briefly concerning the enforcement




10        of Section 3010.




11             The goal of the Environmental Protection Agency is




12        to ensure that the regulated hazardous waste community




13        complies with the hazardous waste regulations.




14             EPA views the notification process as the first




15        step in obtaining overall compliance with the regula-




16        tions,  learning who will be subject to the regulations




1?        and what, and how much  waste they handle.




'"             We have attempted to maximize compliance with




19        Section 3010 regulations in three ways:




20                  1)  We have tried to simplify the regulations




21             to make it easy to notify and to relieve some of




22             the reporting burden from the regulative community.




23                  2)  The Agency is planning to inform the regu-




24             lated community, as Tim said, of the notification




25             requirement on tha advantage of the voluntary

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                                                           29



 1             compliance.  This dispersal of information is an

 2             ongoing activity which has already started.

 3                3t) Finally, EPA plans on taking strong enforce-

 4             ment action against those people who do not comply.

 5             Violation of the notification requirement is con-

 6             sidered very serious, because those people who do

 7             not notify evade the entire control system and

 8             frustrate our efforts to build a data  base de-

 9             fining the scope of the hazardous waste community.

10        EPA will not hesitate in taking action against any per-

11        son who does attempt to evade the system.

12             The kinds of questions that I, as an enforcement
                                      «\
13        representative, am interested are things such as, "How

14        stringent should EPA be in assessing penalties to non-

15        notifiers," and, "What are some ways that we can inform

16        hazardous waste handlers of their notification require-

17        ments."  Thank you.

18                  MR. LEHMAN:  Thank you, Amy.  I notice some

19        of you may have questions about other parts of Subtitle

20        c.  After all of the statements, comments, and ques-

21        tions regarding Section 3010 have been received and

22        discussed we will close this formal Section 3010 public

23        hearing and if there is sufficient interest, we will

24        attempt to answer any other questions you have about

25        other Subtitle C regulations.

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                                                           30






 1             Now, let's call for oral statements.  Speakers



 2        will be called in chronological order of. receiving



 3        their request for time to speak at this hearing, either



 4        by mail or by registration before the hearing.



 5             At this time I would like to call Carey Stark,



 6        Process Study Engineer, of the Mississippi Chemical



 7        Corporation.  Is Mr. Carey Stark present?



 8                  (No answer)



 9             Evidently not at this time.  We will proceed down



10        the list and come back.  I might point out that one of



11        the individuals who registered for time to speak has



12        decided to submit a written statement to the record



13        rather than an oral statement at this time.



14             Next, I would Like to call Thomas Dwight Hinch,



15        Environmental Engineer of the Tennessee Department of



16        Public Health, Division of Solid Waste Management.



17                  (Mr. Hinch came forward to the lectern)



18                  MR. HINCH:  My name is Dwight Hinch.  I work



19        for the Tennessee Department of Public Health, Division



20        of Solid Waste Management, and I'm here today repre-



21        senting Tennessee's Hazardous Waste Management Program.



22             in May of 1977 Tennessee enacted its own companion



23        legislation to Subtitle C of the Federal Resource Con-



24        servation and Recovery Act of 1976.  Our Hazardous



25        Waste Management Act provides for a Hazardous Waste

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                                                           31






 1        Management Program,  which we think is at least sub-




 2        stantially equivalent to that set up in Subtitle C.




 3             Like RCRA,  our  law requires a promulgation of final




 4        regulations by last  April, and like EPA, we didn't make




 5        that deadline and still haven't finalized our regula-




 6        tions.




 7             We,  at least,  attribute much of our own delay to




 8        EPA's delay.  In our efforts to develop regulations




 9        which are equivalent and consistent with EPA's, we have




10        had to wait at times to see what EPA's latest staff




11        regulations contain.  However, I should also admit that




12        we waited because we knew we didn't know much about what




13        we were doing and we were kind of hoping EPA did.  In




I4        any case, we're running way behind our legislative




15        schedule, and to our minds, at least, are running short




16        of time.




17             It is our devout intentions to have our regulations




18        finalized, our program operating, and notification of




19        hazardous waste activities rolling in by the time our




20        State Legislature reconvenes in February  1979, and




21        perhaps becomes inquisitive about our program and the




22        needed amendments to our law which we will be asking




23        them to consider.




24             We think that we will get our regulations finalized




25        and in effect by some time around the first of the year.

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                                                           32






 1        At present we're working with the Tennessee Manu-



 2        facturer's Association, which is an industry group



 3        that represents the bulk of affected industry in



 4        Tennessee, preparing an effective and final draft for



 5        public review and public hearings in October or Novem-



 6        ber of this year.



 7             The latest estimate I have heard from EPA as to



 8        the date they expect to have their hazardous waste



 9        listings and criteria finalized, and thus their notifi-



10        cation period initiated, is April of 1979.  We plan to



11        be in our 90 day notification period around that time.



12             Nonetheless, we also intend to operate a pre-



13        liminary notification program, which is fully ameniable



14        to authorization by EPA.  Thus, our program must re-



15        quire essentially the same information from essentially



16        the same persons as will EPA's program.



17             The first requirement is simple.  Our notification



18        forms will include all of the information required by



19        EPA.  In fact, we will require more information from



20        the generator than will EPA.  In addition to informa-



21        tion about the generated hazardous waste itself, our



22        law mandates that we also require information as to the



23        methods the generator intends to store, treat, or dis-



24        pose of the waste.



25             Our generator notification requirement will thus

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                                                           33






 '        supply us with the information to replace the hazardous



 2        waste survey, which we have never done.



 3             The second requirement, that of requiring notifica-



 4        tion of essentially the same persons as will EPA, is



 5        more difficult.  To do so, we must have essentially



 6        the same listings of and criteria for identifying



 7        hazardous waste, as does EPA.



 8             As I understand it, EPA plans to have another



 9        draft of their 3001 standards ready by around mid-



10        September.  We intend to use EPA's new draft to prepare



11        our own final draft listings and criteria.  We will



12        probably essentially adopt EPA's listings of hazardous



13        waste and revise our criteria to be at least substan-



14        tially equivalent to EPA's.



15             We hope that this will satisfy EPA's requirements



16        for limited interim authorization as outlined in the



17        proposed rules being discussed today.  However, if EPA's



18        3001 and 3010 standards requiring notification from



1'        persons whom our own notification requirements overlooked



20        we will be happy to work with EPA to pick up those



21        notifications we missed.



22             In summary, we're going to proceed with the



23        development and implementations of our State Hazardous



24        Waste Management Program under our own State law with-



25        out any other unnecessary waiting on EPA's program.

-------
                                                           34






 1        This should not be construed to mean that we're going




 2        to disregard EPA's objectives in this process.  We are




 3        just as interested in obtaining EPA authorization as




 4        anybody. We intend to work diligently with EPA to ob-




 5        tain the desired or necessary authorization from




 6        limited interim through interim to full.  We simply




 7        intend to implement an effective hazardous waste manage-




 8        ment program in Tennessee as quickly as we can.  This




 9        is the Tennessee Legislature's intent.  Thank you.




10                  MR. LEHMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Hinch.  Are there




11             any questions or comments on Mr. Hinch's statement;




12                  MR. HARLOW:  Dwight, I would just like to




13        make a comment.  That's a very good presentation and




14        this is the kind of effective implementation of a law




15        that we want to see, or want to encourage all of the




16        States to develop.  I thank you very much for a good




17        presentation.




18                  MR. HINCH:  Thank you, sir.



19                  MR. LEHMAN:  I would like to remind the




20        audience that if you have questions concerning commen-




21        taries made, please write them on a card and get them




22        up here to the panel.  I would like to call Jo Ann W.




23        Bennett, President of the Tennessee League of Women




24        Voters.




25                  MRS. KELLY:  Mr. Lehman, I'm on the list and

-------
                                                           35






 1        have been skipped.




 2                  MR. LEHMAN:  Excuse me.  Are you Mary Kelly?




 3                  MRS. KELLY:  Yes.




 4                  MR. LEHMAN:  I'm sorry.  I was informed that




 5        you did not intend to give your statement orally.  If




 6        you would prefer to, that will be fine.  I'm sorry.




 7        That was our mixup here.  I would now like to call




 8        Mary Kelly, Administrative Vice President, League of




 9        Women Voters of South Carolina, Columbia, South Caroline




10                  MRS. KELLY:  I am Mary T. Kelly, Adminstra-




11        tive Vice-President of the South Carolina League of




12        Women Voters.  I am here today representing both the




13        League and the South Carolina Environmental Coalition.




14        Both of these groups have a proven record of activity




15        in the public interest.  We feel that the Solid Waste




16        Disposal Act as amended by the Resource and Recovery




17        Act of 1976 and the South Carolina Hazardous Waste




18        Management Act of 1978 are significant steps forward    I



19        in the cause of public health through the control of




20        hazardous substances in the environment.  We strongly




21        support effective regulations for the implementation




22        of these laws and advocate that these regulations take




23        place at the earliest possible date.




24             We particularly urge that "the degree of equiva-




25        lency with EPA's management of the process" will not

-------
                                                           36






 1        only be one of the criteria used to determine whether



 2        or not to grant authorization, but an overriding one.



 3        At the same time we urge the EPA and the authorized



 4        agency, and in the case of South Carolina,the Depart-



 5        ment of Health and Environment Control is that agency,



 6        to coordinate efforts with other agencies and depart-



 7        ments of government functioning under this and other



 8        overlapping legislation to minimize replication of



 9        effort and to attain the desired goals without



10        exhausting the patience of the regulated community.



11             We suggest that several changes be made in the



12        notification form.  Under Item 7, we would like to



13        see the word "optional" deleted.  The quantity of



14        hazardous waste is important and should not be optional.



15        Perhaps the permitted response could be made less



16        specific by permitting the answers to be "less than",



I7        "between  (blank) and (blank)", "greater than", or



18        putting in some specific figures so that you would have



19        a good general idea,   Some estimate of amount should be



20        included and required.   In addition, an added question



21        as to whether a greater or lesser amount is expected



22        in the current year seems advisable.



23             The manner in which the confidentiality claim is



24        handled is evidently of concern to you.  The form



25        seems to almost suggest that the responder take the

-------
                                                           37






 1        easy way out with a blanket claim to confidentiality,



 2        with or without justification.  It cannot be disputed



 3        that many industrialists are well justified in not



 4        divulging details of their processes, yet the public



 5        interest must also be served.  We suggest that an



 6        explanatory statement be included to the effect that



 7        substantiation may be included, but must be provided



 8        on request.  A penalty could be imposed for flagrantly



 9        untenable claims.



10             A serious oversight exists in that owners of



11        inactive hazardous waste treatment, storage, and dis-



12        posal facilities are not required to notify.  In view



13        of proven problems, and the Hooker dump site at



14        Niagara Palls is the most recent and terrible example,



15        it is glaringly obvious that some inventory of such



16        sites is needed for public protection, and we thank



17        you for the opportunity to participate in this hearing.



18                  MR. LEHMAN:  I thank you, Mrs. Kelly.  Will



19        you take questions?



20                  MRS. KELLY:  Yes.



21                  MR. LEHMAN:  Does anybody on the panel have



22        questions at this time?



23                  MR. SANJOUR:  First, a comment on the two



24        issues, one about the optional clause and the estimates



25        of amount.  By way of explanation, those are both the

-------
                                                           38






 1        way they are because our General Counsel advised us




 2        that to do otherwise may exceed our authority.  In




 3        fact, the issue is whether or not a person has notified




         if we were to demand certain information on a person




 5        who doesn't supply it, the issue is has he legally




 6        notified or not.  And, the General Counsel has inter-




 7        preted the law as saying that, in fact, the person




 8        probably has notified even if we say it's not optional




 9        and he doesn't suppl/ it; so, we would exceed our




10        authority, which is why it's not applicable.




11             That other thing on your question of inactive




12        sites, I would like -o solicit your opinion on how you




13        think that should be handled.  The law only gives us




14        authority over owners.  In the case of Hooker Chemical,




15        for example, EPA cannot hold Hooker responsible for




16        that because the law only gives authority to the person




17        who presently owns it, which in that case would be the




18        City of Niagara Falls, I believe.




19                  MRS. SMITH:  I can't say that I can tell you




20        how to solve that problem, but I do feel that it is




21        important that some of these massive dumping sites




22        be identified as -- Hooker may not be responsible any-




23        more, but still someone has to be and it needs to be




24        known that these things exist and where they are.




25                  MR. HARLOW:  Mary, on the first page of your

-------
                                                           39






 1        statement you make the comment that in granting



 2        authority to State agencies to run the program, that



 3        our primary determination should be based on whether



 4        or not that State program is equivalent to EPA's?



 5                  MRS. KELLY:  Well, equivalent or better.



 6                  MR. HARLOW:  Well, I think that the regula-



 7        tions, as I understand them, and panel, correct me if



 8        I'm wrong, that we're looking at a criteria as being



 9        equivalent, in effect, if they can administer the



10        program and, in effect, accomplish the same purposes



11        that EPA is doing, which if EPA runs the program, is



12        that the criteria where you would be granting



13        authorization?



14                  MRS. KELLY:  If it turns out that those were



15        the results, yes.  But', I think there's some feeling



16        in South Carolina that in the case of the Occupational



17        Safety and Health Act the authorization is with the



18        Department of Labor, but it could be somewhat more



19        zealously enforced.



20                  MR. HARLOW:  And your second comment in that



21        same paragraph, that EPA and the South Carolina Depart-



22        ment of Health and Environmental Control working to-



23        gether hopes to coordinate effbrts and to avoid dupli-



24        cation, I would hope that we're already doing this.



25                  MRS. KELLY:  Well, I hope, yes.  Thank you.

-------
                                                           40






 1                  MR.  LEHMAN:   Thank you, Mrs. Kelly.  Next, I




 2        would like to call Jo Ann W. Bennett, President of the




 3        Tennessee League of VIomen Voters.




 4                  (There was no answer)




 5                  MR.  LEHMAN:   Is Mrs. Bennett in the audience?




 6                  (There was no answer)




 7                  MR.  LEHMAN:   Apparently not; we'll come back.




 8        Next, I would like to call Laurenthia Mesh, I believe




 9        it is.  Senior Engineer, DeKalb County, Georgia.




10                  (Ms. Mesh came forward to the lectern)




11                  MS.  MESH:  As an Environmental Engineer in




12        charge of industrial wastes in a highly political




13        Georgia community^ I prefer to speak as a public citizen




14        and a mother.   I attack EPA's past and RCRA laws as




15        being long overdue.  Contrary to industrial belief




16        with respect to tax exceptances, the health web is




17        more important than the economic web.  Rather than




18        EPA reassessing their criteria,it seems more reasonable




19        that industry reassess theirs and pass on to the environ




20        merit.



21             Research is needed as to what effects chemicals




22        have on the human body.  Of the seventy thousand




23        chemicals circulating on us, two hundred have been




24        studied and most of these are carcinogenic, mutagenic,




25        or teratogenic.  Teratogenicity means producing monsters

-------
                                                            41






 1         instead  of  babies.   Short term solutions appear viable




 2         for  disposal  of  toxic wastes.   I  thank you for the




 3         opportunity to speak here.




 4                  MR. LEHMAN:  Will  you accept questions from




 5         the  panel?




 6                  MS. MESH:   Yes,  I'd  be  happy to.




 7                  MR. LEHMAN:  Any questions.




 g                  MR. HARLOW:  Is DeKalb  County going to presen




 g         a written statement  on the regulations?




10                  MS. MESH:   No,  I'm speaking  as a public




11         citizen  and a mother.




12                  MR. LEHMAN:  Thank you,  Ms.  Mesh.   Next I




13         would  like  to call Mr.  Daniel  Moon,  Burlington Environ-




14         mental Services  Incorporated out  of  Wilmington,  Dela-




15         ware.




16                  MR. MOON:   Thank you, Jack.   My name is




17         Daniel Moon from Burlington  Environmental Services.




18         I have three areas that I would like to address  in




19         development of the regulations.   The first is concerned




20         with the notification activities  as  they apply to re-




21         visions  in  3001.  The second is the  use of  a  State




22         definition  of hazardous waste;  and a third  is regard-




23         ing  confidentiality.




24             Regarding notification, I  really  must  question




25         the  need for notification as a  result  of revisions in

-------
                                                            42






 1         3001.  As  it  is,  the  notification of the revisions will



 2         only  apply to  those  people  that are engaged in those



 3         activities of  crime  or  promulgation,  and as the regu-



 4         lations say, a mechanism has  been established that



 5         will  allow people  that  start  generating or transport-



 6         ing or storing,  et cetera,  of wastes that are identi-



 7         fied  in the  revisions by, one,  poor treatment, storage,



 8         and disposal facilities that  they have to get a revision



 9         in their  permit, that they  will have to apply for that



10         and so effectively notify EPA or the State.  For genera--



11         tors  or haulers  that now need to be in the system,



12         they  would have  to start utilizing the manifest system



13         and they, too, would therefore be plugged into the



14         system and effectively  notifying EPA or the State.



15         I think both of  these activities would effectively



16         serve the requirements  for  notifying EPA or the State



17         of any revisions.



18              I think that  by eliminating the revisions and the



!9         notification there would also be less of a burden on



20         those generators and haulers  that are already in the



21         system.   They  would  nc  longer have to be concerned



22         with  notifying EPA or the State.   They would simply



23         adopt the necessary  requirements    the revisions



24         caused.



25              I also  think  that  it's not necessary for EPA or

-------
                                                            43






 1         the State programs that take over the regulatory




 2         hazardous waste program, there's no need for them to




 3         maintain a mechanism for this continued notification,




 4         and especially when a lot of us are aware of the bur-




 5         dens that are already placed on the Regional and State




 6         offices.




 7              Okay.  The next thing I would like to comment on




 8         is the State definition of hazardous waste.  From




 9         everything that I've read in thesoproposed regulations,




10         it would seem to be quite inappropriate.  It conflicts




11         with prior statement in the regulations and the pro-




12         posed regulations regarding the need and the desire




13         for a national consistency.




1*              Now,  the States will be assuming 3010 prior to




15         the promulgation of the 3001 regulations and prior t-




16         the ability of the Regional offices to evaluate the




17         States dUfiv\\V\«#\  of hazardous waste.  What would you




18         end up with if the situation were a multi-State firm




1g         as being required to go by several different defini-




20         tions of hazardous waste across the country.  And, as




21         was stated here earlier, it's okay for a corporation




22         to use the single notification.  By allowing each




23         State,  if  the definition of hazardous waste vVfti  more




24         stringent  and a question of who is going to do that




25         evaluation at this very early stage, how would a large

-------
 1
2
 3
4
 5
 6
 7
10


11


12


13
                                                            44
18

19


20

21


22

23


24


25
multi-State company make a single notification?  It

would become very difficult and probably very expen-
     My final comments regard    confidentiality.  I


know that EPA is very concerned with confidentiality,


but there seems to be limited concern regarding the


State's ability to control information that is sub-


mitted to that State regarding confidentiality.


     Now, there seems to be no assurance given that


the State, in fact, does have a law concerning con-


fidentiality.  I think that as a minimunij perhaps EPA

should publish at the same time, as they publish with


the States, will run a notification program, that they

should publish which States also have a confidentiality


laWj or some mechanisn should be allowed to either

require   that the States have a confidentiality law

before they're given any notification, or to allow

companies an exemption to submitting information that

they feel is confidential if a State does not have such


a law.  Thank you.

          MR. LEHMAN:  Mr. Moon, would you answer any

                               *\
questions coming from the panel.


          MR. FIELDS:  One question.  Dan, your first


two points anyway.  We are working on a procedure

whereby we'd not have a notification requirement in

-------
                                                            45






 1         the future due to revisions in Section 3001.   We



 2         don't want that either.   We hope that when 3001 is



 3         revised that the permit  requirements, the manifest



 4         requirements, the other  requirements could be legally



 5         mandated to satisfy notification requirements.  And,



 6         we concur with that approach.   We are working on it



 7         so that the notification will  only apply initially



 8         when 3001 is promulgated and future revisions will be



 9         handled by these other sections of the Act.   So, that's



10         where we plan to go.



11              The second point is on the area of State defini-



12         tions of hazardous waste.   The discussion in  the



13         preamble on State definitions  is the way that our



14         legal people maintain that we  have to go.  If the



15         State definition is more stringent than the Section



16         3001 regulation,  it is allowable for the purposes of



17         notification.   It can't  be less stringent. So,  again,



18         our EPA lawyers have advised us that we legally have



19         to allow other de?inv^lC>n5 as I°n9 as they're  as



20         stringent as the 3001 regulations.



21                   MR.  MOON:   When will the evaluation be made



22         of their stringency,  whether they're more stringent



23         or less stringent?



24                   MR.  FIELDS:  The EPA Regional Office,  the



25         Regional Administrator will have to make that

-------
                                                           46






 1        evaluation as one of his considerations in granting




 2        a State limited interim authorization.  He will have




 3        to review the whole State program for implementing




 4        Section 3010.  So, if the Regional Office calls in




 5        that regard, then they will have to make that evalua-




 6        tion.




 7                  MR. DICKINSON:  One of the problems \ve've




 8        had in Tennessee has asked this question, what do we




 9        do if we've already notified our manufacturer and then




10        EPA comes out with different criteria.  We would only




11        have 90 days at the Regional Office to evaluate what




12        they have done agaiast what EPA's definition is.  And,




13        then within that 90 day period we've got to decide




1*        if they're equivalent.  If they're not,we've got to




15        decide whether the State is going to do something




16        else or whether the Regional Office is.  So, it is —




17        I would say it is a real problem for the States that




18        have already notified, because the day that our Federal)




19        Regs are final we'11 be faced with a 90 day clock of




20        deciding what to do, what additional steps need to be




21        taken either by the State or by the Regional Office.




22        So, it is a problem, Tim.




23                  MR. LEHMAN:  Ladies and gentlemen, that's the




24        end of the list of the people who have indicated a




25        desire to speak.  Let me check and make sure that two

-------
                                                            47






 1        of the  individuals  that  I  called  before cere., in  fact,



 2        not here.  At  this  time  I  would like  to  call Carey



 3        Stark,  Process  Study  Engineer  of  the  Mississippi



 4        Chemical Corporation.  Is  Carey Stark in the audience?



 5              (Pause) Let  the  record  show  that we called upon



 6        him twice now without any  response  and that he  was



 7        not present.   I would now  call  Jo  Ann  K.  Bennett,  Presi-



 8        dent of the Tennessee League of Women Voters.   Is



 9        Ms. Bennett in  the  audience? (Pause)  Apparently not.



10        Again,  please  let the record show that we gave  two



11        opportunities  for Ms.  Bennett  to  speak at this  hearing.



12             Are there  any  individuals in the audience  who



13        wish to present written  statements  to the hearing?



14         (Pause) Apparently  not.



15             Are there  any  members of  the audience who  have



16        questions, written  questions,  that  would like to  have



17        the panel or one  of the  speakers  to answer?  If so,



18        would you please  get  these questions  up  to us,  please.



19              (There was a moment's pause)



20                  MR. LEHMAN:  Here's  an  easy one to answer.



21        Question: "Do you consider incineration  of a hazardous



22        waste on the generation  site as requring  a disposal



23        permit?"  The answer  is  yes  and no.   The  answer is yes,



24        a permit is required;  the  answer  is no,  it's not  a dis-



25        posal permit but  a  treatment permit,  because we consider

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                                                            48



 1         incineration  to be  treatment  rather  than  disposal.


 2         That's the way the  law  is written.   But yes,  a  permit


 3         definitely is required  for  an incinerator on  a


 4         generator's property, but it  would be  a treatment


 5         permit rather than  a disposal permit.


 6             George,  do you want to take  the next one?


 7                  MR. HARLOW:   I have a question  here and  it

                              **.
 8         says, "Please explain^relationship of  Section 402  of


 9         the Federal Water Pollution Control  Act to this pro-


10         posed regulation?"


11             Section  402 of the Federal Water  Pollution Control


12         Act establishes the National  Pollutant Discharge


13         Elimination System, which is  a national permit  program


14         for controlling the discharges of municipal and indus-


15         trial wastes  of the nation's  streams.


16             The  RCRA PrCji'am also  sets up a permitting process


17         for the treatment and disposal of hazardous waste,  and


18         there is  a relationship, although at this time  somewhat


19         vague.  I can think of  an example where a company  may, j


20         at the same time, wiiile they're discharging treated


21         effluents to  a receiving stream requiring an  NPDES


22         permit, that  they also  may  be disposing of; storing_,


23         or treating hazardous waste as defined under  The


24         Resource  Conservation and Recovery Act.   And, for  those


25         companies who are doing these kinds  of operations,it

-------
                                                            49






 1         is  very possible,  and it is being considered seriously




 2         within EPA,  that this kind of operation could be per-




 3         mitted under one permit which would provide both a




 4         NPDES  permit and the RCRA permit into one document.




 5                   (Unidentified person made statement from




 6             the audience.   Reporter could not understand




 7             all of  statement)




 8                   MR.  HARLOW:  Now, I can see many situations




 9         where  you would need both kinds of activities covered




10         under  RCRA and under NPDES.




11                   (Unidentified person made statement from




12             the audience.   Reporter could not understand




13             all of  statement)




14                   MR.  LEHMAN:  As I mentioned earlier,  we will




15         discuss cnipstions  concerning other parts of Subtitle




16         c after we finish  on 3010.




17                   MR.  FIELDS:  One request is to repeat the




18         earlier announcement I  made regarding the error in




19         the proposed draft regulations that you have a copy




20         of,  the Section 3010 regulations.   The sample form at




21         the back has six criteria or characteristics.




22             Well, as  I indicated before,  we are not allowing




23         an  undetermined response for two of those three cri-




24         teria  for which an undetermined response is indicated




25         in  the draft regs.   Item (c)  which is radioactive,

-------
                                                            50






1        and item  (e) which is corrosive - the only two applica-




2        ble responses to those two items is  "yes" or  "no".




3        We're not allowing an undetermined response within  the




4        90 day period for any criteria, except for toxicity.




5        So, the first five characteristics,  that is,  "Ignitable




6        Reactive, Infectious, Radioactive, and Corrosive,"  the




7        only response would be "yes" or "no" as to whether




8        you're counting one of those five categories  as waste.




9             We are allowing, as I indicated before,  an unde-




!0        termined response, in addition to "yes" or "no",  in




11        the case of toxicity.




12                  MR. HARLOW:  Let me get back to the previous




13        gentleman's question.  I see what you're referring  to.




14        Suppose EPA in its hazardous waste definition happens




15        to classify a substance, say cadmium - let's  take it




16        for example, as a hazardous waste, and a company  dis-




17        charges through its  effluent, cadmium.  There's a




18        method to regulate the discharge of  cadmium  to a




19        stream within NPDES.  If it also happened to  be storing




20        treating, or disposing of cadium through some other




21        way> then  the appropriate regulatory  mechanism for




22        entering  that would  be RCRA.




23                  MR. LEHMAN:  I have a question here that's




24        similar to  that one.  "It is not clear whether sludges




25        settled out from industrial wastewater is discharged

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                                                            51






 '         under  a  NPDES  permit  exempted when  the  effluent con-



 2         taining  some of  those same  solids is  discharged with-



 3         out  further treatment?"   We're  getting  a  little far



 4         afield from 3010,  but let me say I  can  share  your



 5         concern.   How  can  you discuss 3010  when you don't  have



 6         the  final  definition  of  hazardous waste;  so,  we recog-



 7         nize the fact  that there's  a problem, and perhaps  we



 8         might  take a minute aside here  and  address that point.



 9             The reason  3010  is  going forward before  the



10         others are proposed is,  as  Tim  Fields mentioned in



11         his  presentation,  we're  going to need at  least 120



12         days,  and  probably more  than that,  before 3001 can be



13         published  in its final form, to get the States limited



14         interim  authorization clarified and to  publish a list



15         in the Federal Register  at  the  time we  finalize 3001,



16         and  which  States have such  authority for  notification



17         and  which  ones don't. So,  3010 is  going  forward.  We



18         have to  get these  forms  finalized;  we have to get  all



19         the  forms  printed;  we have  to have  substantial com-



20         puterized  mailing  time,  all signed  and  ready  to go the



21         day  we finalize  the 3001 regulations.   Now, that's the



22         reason why this  regulation  has  to come  out and we



23         recognize  the  difficulties.



24             But to answer this  question, "It is  not  clear



25         whether  industrial wastewater is discharged under  a

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                                                            52





 1         --I'm  sorry, wastewater  discharged unkev  a  NPDES  permit



 2         is  exempted when  the  effluent  containing  some  of  those



 3         same  solids is  discharged without  further treatment."



 4              I  think  the  point  here  is that any  sludges  that



 5         are generated as  a  result of industrial waste  solid



 6         treatment, which  are  a  hazardous waste according  to



 7         the definition, and do  fall  under  the purview  of  RCRA



 8         and would  require the control  that are required  under



 9         RCRA, those sludges are disposed of on-site, or  if



10         they're stored  for  longer than 90  days on-site,  then



11         a RCRA  permit is  required to deal  with those sludges.



12         If  they are shipped off-site within 90 days, then a



13         RCRA  permit is  not  necessarily required  for those



14         sludges.



15              Now,  this  gets us  into  another area  which has not



16         yet been settled  within the  Agency, and  that is whether



17         or  not  the treatment  of lagoons that are  part  of  an



18         industrial waste  treatment system  are covered  under



19         RCRA  or not.  The discharge  to navigable  waters  is



20         certainly  covered,  but  the lagoon  itself  has the



21         potential, at least,  for  reaching  into ground  water



22         and we're  still trying  to determine whether or not we



23         will  attempt  to regulate  under RCRA.  It's  not clear



24         whether legislation has that intent to regulate  those



25         as  regards a  treatment  system.  And, clearly,  a  holding

-------
                                                            53






 1         pond  of  the lagoon  which is used for storing of wastes,



 2         that  clearly is  part of the RCRA program.   I'm talking



 3         about the  ponds  that are actually in the treatment



 4         plan  itself.   Bill  Sanjour.



 5                   MR.  SANJOUR:   "Will universities have to



 6         meet  the standards,  the same standards for their re-



 7         search laboratory wastes?"   In a word, yes.   The only



 8         possible exemption  is that  there is a minimum quantity



 9         in  the 3002 standards,  but  that it would be very less



10         than  the same quantity of hazardous waste per month.



11         100 kilograms per month on  the average.



12              Another question is, "V7hat constitutes storage?



13         That  is, how long could a generator have hazardous



14         waste on hand before requiring permitting for storage?"



15         The current version of this 3002 standards draft is



16         90  days.  If the generator  stores for less than 90 days



17         he  must  require  a permit.  That only applies to genera-




18         tors.



19              The next question, "Material produced is essen-



20         tially a by-product, some sold, but due to limited



21         demand,the remainder burned.  Have air pollution per-



22         mits  authorized   use as fuels.  Based on what Mr. Har-



23         low just said we would assume this is an air permit



24         matter and not an RCRA matter."



25              Well,  if the material  that is burned falls under

-------
                                                            54






 1        the definition of a hazardous waste, then everything




 2        that happens to it is a RCRA matter.  So, the issue is




 3        not so much as to whether or not the facility has  an




 4        air permit.  The issue is whether or not the material




 5        that's going through that facility  is a hazardous




 6        waste.  If it is, then under the 3001 definition,  then




 7        any place it goes to must have a permit.  Now,  that's




 8        in the law; that's not even our standards.  But the




 9        law says that only a permit facility, a facility per-




10        mitted under this Act can accept the hazardous  waste.




11        So, therefore, if the waste at any  one time became




12        hazardouSj then the incinerator on the site must have




13        a permit under RCRA.  So, the real  issue then is




14        whether or not the material is a hazardous waste.




15                  MR. LEHMAN:  Tim.



16                  MR. FIELDS:  I've got one question which re-




17        lates to items 5 and 6 on the sample notification




18        form.  The first comment is,  "The sample notification




19        form provides only one item for types of hazardous




20        waste handled."  I guess the  question is referring to




21        item #5 which talks  about types of  hazardous waste




22        as  identified by criteria or  characteristics under




23        Section  3001.



24             "Is it necessary  for the generator, disposer,




25        et  cetera, to classify each of  the  hazardous wastes

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                                                            55






 1         listed  in  item #6,  which is  a  description of the



 2         hazardous  wastes  handled as  identified  by listings,



 3         as  corrosive,  toxifc,  et  cetera,  at  the  time  of  notifi-



 4         cation  under  Section  3010."  The answer is no.   Item



 5         #6  is to provide  a  list  of hazardous  wastes  handled.



 6         That means list as  specified by  3001  regulations,  or



 7         any other  description you might  want  to provide for



 8         the hazardous waste to be handled.  You do not  have to



 9         relate  that to item #5.   You do  not have to  say that



10         the waste  that you've listed is  toxic, or corrosive,



11         et  cetera.  So, we're not requiring that you provide



12         a characteristic  associated  with each waste  that you



13         list in item  #6.



14                   MR.  SANJOUR:   I think  the issue though is



15         suppose you have  five different  wastes  then?



16                   MR.  LEHMAN:  Well, let me make a comment on



17         this.   I think the  point about that is  that  there are



18         two ways to define  hazardous wastes listed.  One is by



19         criteria or characteristics, which  is toxic, flammable,



20         or  if you  prefer  -  ignitable as  we  call it,  or  corrosiv



21         The other  is  by listings. The lists  themselves and



22         when they  will be published  will indicate the reason



23         why they're on the  list, because they're toxic  or be-



21         cause they're corrosive, et  cetera.  So, we  merely



25         respond by indicating which  waste on  a  particular list

-------
                                                           56






 1        that you deal with, we will already know whether it's



 2        toxic or corrosive or whatever.



 3                  MR. SANJOUR:  The question I'm hearing is



 4        suppose you have five different wastes.  Now, do you



 5        have to identify these characteristics for each waste



 6        separately or can you just lump them altogether on



 7        the answer to question five.  That's the way I under-



 8        stood it.



 9                  MR. FIELDS:  We have interpreted -- we be-



10        lieve that aggregate authority is satisfactory.  We



n        don't interpret — item #5 which says, "Types of



12        hazardous wastes handled, as identified by criteria



13        or characteristics under Section 3001," if a person



14        indicates the wastes they're handling are hazardous



15        due to -- maybe you check — maybe you've got three



18        different types of wastes.  You may have six dif-



17        ferent wastes, but there are actually three different



18        types.  You might have an ignitable waste, you might



19        have an infectious waste, you might have a toxic waste,



20        and you check those three boxes providing an aggragate



21        response to the types of hazardous wastes you're hand-



22        ling.  That would satisfy EPA's interpretation of



23        responding to notification.  So, in answer to those



24        questions, the person would not have to specify as to



25        each individual waste, which characteristics were

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                                                            57



 1         associated with each of the five wastes to provide

 2         an aggragate response.   To make it even simpler,  if

 3         all five wastes were toxic and each said,  "yes,  toxic,"

 4         that would be satisfactory for responding  to item #5.

 5                   MR.  DICKINSON:   He would not then have  to


 6         list the five wastes in #6, right?

 7                   MR.  FIELDS:   That's his option.

 8                   MR.  LEHMAN:   We would, of course, prefer some

 9         definition,  or description of the wastes given,  though.

10         There's still another variance on all this, if I  may

11         muddy the water further.   There are some wastes  which

12         are ignitable, corrosive, possibly radioactive or toxic

13         all at the same time.   And, of course, in  that case

14         you would check all of the responses, all  of the  boxes

15         that apply to that particular waste.

16              Okay, there are several other questions.   One of

17         them is, "Will there be an easy way to notify Of  genera-

1"         tors of hazardous waste after initial notification has
                                                                 I
19         been completed?"  "Of generation" it has.   "Will  there

20         be an easy way to notify of generation of  hazardous

21         waste after initial notification has been  completed?"

22              This point came up earlier.  We are,  as Tim indi-

23         cated,  attempting to put the burden, basically,  on the

24         other regulations of Subtitle C to handle  this case,

25         where a person begins to generate hazardous waste after

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                                                            58






 1        the initial notification.  The requirements  for  that




 2        case are contained  in Section 3002, the generators




 3        requirement, rather than  3010.  In other words,  we




 4        are attributing 3010 to be primarily a one shot




 5        notification at the beginning of the program,  and




 6        any new entrants into the field in generation, trans-




 7        port, treatment, storage, and disposal would be  re-




 8        quired under other  regulations to provide EPA  with




 9        essentially the same information as these requirements




10        of 3010, but we would not activate the entire  notifica-




11        tion system again.




12             Okay, another  question.  "What is the relation-




13        ship between toxic  limits in NPDES permits for primary




14        industries and regulations of the RCRA, Sections 3001




15        through 3006, and  3010?  Will not separate controls




ig        generate separate  permits for the sane facility?"




17        Well, this ties in, would certainly agree with what




18        George mentioned earlier.  The toxic limits  that are




19        being generated now under the court ordered  toxic




20        guidelines program  to us, that they call for a new




21        set of restrictions on discharge of industrial waste




22        waters and navigable waters.  And, when those  regula-




23        tions are complete  and when they are put into  effect,




24        there will be a reopening on the RCRA permit,  at which




25        time these new requirements would be imposed.  Meanwhile,

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                                                            59






 1         RCRA is coming along with another regulatory program fo



 2         hazardous waste,  and to the extent that both of these



 3         will reply it is  the Agency's intention, as best we



 4         can, to integrate these two new requirements at the



 5         same time.



 6              My thinking  is that we will — when the NPDES



 7         permit reopens to apply the discharge requirement(



 8         it will be at that time that the RCRA permitting will



 9         also take place.   So, what we have in mind here is



10         that each facility then would get one permit with two



11         parts,  the new DAC toxic part and the new RCRA part.



12         We will try to avoid having two separate rounds, if



13         you will,  of permitting for authority.



14              Okay, another question.   "Draft criteria under



15         Section 3001 for  hazardous solid waste is not compatible



16         with NPDES permit and Section 3011 of 92-500.  Will



17         attempts be made  to bring them in line?"



18              I'd be guessing what the questioner had in mind



19         here because I'm  not sure of  what aspect he believes



20         that the definition of hazardous waste is not compati-



21         ble with RCRA's under Section 3011.   Now, first of



22         all, you should understand that Section 3011, for those



23         of you  who are not aware of all of the hazardous fill



24         regulations under the Clean Water Act, and those list



25         approximately 285,  I think it was, or 287, chemicals

-------
                                                            60






 1        which are controlled for spill purposes and those  in



 2        the ocean are currently not in effect because of a



 3        court ordered spill effect.  Nonetheless, there were



 4        a  set of chemicals which were specified to be con-



 5        trolled.  For those of you who have read this Act,  I'm



 6        sure you have of Section 3001, you see that there  are



 7        very few, if any - there may be a few, specific



 8        chemicals mentioned.  Most of the definitions in the



 9        listing area is in terms of a processed waste.  It



10        doesn't say mercury; it doesn't say cadium.  Now,  this



11        is not necessarily inconsistent or not compatible  with



12        the NPDES or spill regulations.  All we're doing here



13        is saying that we have enough information in our file



14        to give us sufficient confidence that the processed



15        wastes of this list are hazardous and should be



16        brought under control under this new program.  And,



17        we're doing it that way for a simple reason.  One



18        is we feel that it is easier for the regulative



19        community to understand that.  It also does not require



20        the regulated industry to go out and do a lot of test-



21        ing.  If we were to specify, for example, that a waste



22        is hazardous, you can have more than 100 parts of



23        mercury, then for you to know whether or not a waste



24        is hazardous you would have to go out and test your



25        waste to find out whether it has more than 100 parts of

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                                                            61






 1        mercury.   So,  to avoid  all of  that we  are  primarily




 2        dealing  in terms of descriptors of processed waste




 3        and not  just pure  chemicals.   Now, if  that is  the




 4        nature of  — if that's  how you feel  it's incompatibley




 5        I've attempted to  answer  that  question.  If the




 6        author of  this question has a  different point  in mind,




 7        perhaps  you could  clarify that for us.




 8                   UNIDENTIFIED  PERSON  FROM AUDIENCE:   To give




 9        you the  example of an electroplating waste, let's




10        consider that  the  electroplating waste is  listed in




11        the special chemicals category, or the hazardous waste




12        category,  because  of the  mercury content.   Now, if a




13        manufacturer changes his  process so  as to  eliminate




14        that particular toxic chemical from  his waste, accord-




15        ing to the criteria, the  draft criteria, it still




16        would be considered as  hazardous even  though he has




17        removed  or eliminated by  process modification  the




18        toxic content  you  were  concerned with.




19                   MR.  LEHMAN:   Okay, there is  a way to handle




20        that situation.  As a matter of fact,  we encourage




21        process modifications to  eliminate hazardous or toxic




22        contaminants in a  waste and make it  non-hazardous.




23        We will  have,  if it's not already in there - I thought




24        there was  a section in  there,  but we will  have a way




25        and clearly specify   as  to how you  can prove  that you

-------
                                                           62





1        do not have a. hazardous waste and, therefore, get out



2        of the control system.  But given all the other alter-



3        natives it appears that it would be simpler for every-



4        body concerned to l^st them by process waste in the



5        manner that I mentioned.  But, if you feel that you,



         for example, on an electroplater do have a special



         process,  just using that example, does not produce a



         hazardous waste, then there will be a way for you to



         get out of the system.



              The  second part of your question dealt with



..        sludges and I believe we've covered that question.



         Do we have any more questions?



                    (Additional questions brought forward to the




14             panel)



              "Under Section 3002^ does  the 100 kilograms a



16        month determine maximum each month, average each



17        month, or total material or hazardous components?"



18             The  exemption for people who generate and dispose



19        of less than 100 kilograms a month originated in  the



20        following way.  I emphasize "and dispose of."  In



21        other words, not that you generate less than a hundred



22        kilograms and save all of that for the year and then



23        dispose of it all at once - you have  to generate  and



24        dispose of less than a hundred kilograms to be exempted



25        Okay, that came about because of studies that we  did

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                                                            63






 1         which looked at generation data from a number of



 2         State programs  that were already in existence and



 3         other information which led us to the conclusion that



 4         there were a very large number of people who generated



 5         wastes which will probably be considered hazardous in



 6         very  small amounts.  And we did some calculations and



 7         found that there's a cutoff point at about a hundred



 8         kilograms  per month, whereby one can eliminate from



 9         this  regulatory control system on the order of fifty



10         to  sixty percent of all potential generators and about



11         ninety percent  of all farmers if one exempts the people



12         who generate less than one hundred kilograms per



13         month.



14              At the same time one loses out of the control



15         system less than one-half of one percent of the total



16         amount of  hazardous wastes that is out there.  In



17         other words, there is a smaller number of people who



18         generate large  amounts of hazardous waste, and then



19         there's a  large number of people who generate small



20         amounts.



21              Another aspect of this whole thing is that -V\\«~



22         companion  to Subtitle C is the new requirement for



23         disposal of non-hazardous wastes that are being



24         developed  under Subtitle D.  So, the requirements of



25         non-hazardous waste disposal are being substantially

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                                                           64


 1        upgraded as the result of Subtitle D activities.  So,

 2        we felt that given these two items, these two aspects,

 3        that we could in good conscience eliminate and remove

 4        from all the notification and reporting and record

 5        keeping burden a lot of these folks who generate a lot

 6        less than a - small quantities of these wastes and

 7        still achieve a reasonable amount of potential because

 8        of the upgrading of the non-hazardous waste.

 9             The type of people we're dealing with here are

10        probably, usually, small retail establishments like dry
                                                                 |
11        cleaners who use percoethylene as a solvent, people

12        like that.  There are literally tens of thousands of

13        these very small generators that we feel it wasn't

14        the intent of Congress to cover under this program.

15             As to the other parts of this maximum each month

16        or average each month - we're talking maximum each

17        month, not average, and as to the total of material

18        or hazardous components now, we're talking about the

19        wastes.  If you have a hazardous waste, for example,

20        that is hazardous because it has a small amount of a

21        very toxic chemical in it it's not about a hundred

22        kilograms of a very toxic chemical we're talking about;

23        it's a hundred kilograms of the waste itself, the mix-

24        ture.

25                  UNIDENTIFIED PERSON FROM AUDIENCE:  Then

-------
                                                            65


 1        your dry  cleaners,  for  example, might well  exceed  the

 2        criteria  and  be  on  your list?

 3                  MR.  LEHMAN:   It might,  but  ...

 4                  UNIDENTIFIED  PERSON  FROM AUDIENCE:   Because

 5        you've  got  to mix it with a  hell  of a lot of  water?

                   MR.  LEHMAN:   Well, according  to discussions

         with the  Dry  Cleaning Institute}most retail dry

         cleaner's establishements would not be  affected  by it.

         At any  rate,  that's what we're talking  about.  We're

10        not talking about the components  that makes it hazardous;

11        Any more  questions?

12                  MR.  SANJOUR:   If you have a residue from

13        solvent recovery which  you have determined  to be not

14        ignitable, must  you report it  and defend its  exclusion

15        or not  report it?"

16             Well,  I  guess  the  writer  is  assuming that if  it's
                                                                 i
         not ignitable, therefore not a hazardous waste,  although

18        my thinking is it could possibly  be so  because of

19        toxicity.  But let's take that at face  value  and say

20        that we have  material which  is on the list  identified

21        as a hazardous waste, but through the exclusion  pro-

22        visions that  Jack Lehman mentioned, would,  in fact,

23        demonstrate that it is  not a hazardous  waste,  and  the

24        question  is under those circumstances should  it  be

25        reported.  Well, legally I'd say  it's not required to

-------
                                                            66





 1        be reported because it's not technically a hazardous



 2        waste even though it's on the list.  If it's not a



 3        hazardous waste then EPA under this  law has no



 4        jurisdiction over you if you're not  generating a



 5        hazardous waste.  However, you're kind of like in  a



 6        position of the man going into a restaurant with a



 7        dog and it says "dogs excluded except Eyeing eye dogs,"



 8        and if you walk ir there with a dog  you're certainly



 9        obeying the law, tut you ought to be prepared to show



10        that you're blind in case the issue  ever comes up.



11        So, if you have a waste that is on the list of iden-



12        tified hazardous wastes, but you feel that it is ex-



13        eluded, then technically you don't have to report, but



14        for your own protection it might be  good to deal with



15        EPA because it's kind of like waving a red flag if you



16        have a waste as identified as being  on the list and



17        you're not in the system.  I hope that answers the



18        question.



19                  MR. LEHMAN:  Well, as I mentioned earlier,



20        I think we will clarify that point in the draft of



21        3001 as to what you do if you're on  the list and you're



22        sure you don't have; a hazardous waste;how do you get



23        off and how -- that will be made more clear.



24                  MR. FIELDS:  A comment and a question.   The



25        comment is, "EPA's estimate for Section 3001 testing

-------
                                                            67






 1         is  25  to  30K  per  sample."   The  question is,  "Are we




 2         required  to do  this  testing prior to notification?"




 3         And the answer  is no,  you're not required to do this




 4         testing prior to  notification to EPA or the  States.




 5         You can simply  evaluate the hazardous waste  and we're




 6         not requiring you to test  the waste,  even though some




 7         people will test  their waste.   But the answer is no,




 8         we're  not requiring  a  testing.   I hope I've  answered




 9         the question.




10                   MR. LEHMAN:   Well,  first of all,  I don't know




'1         where  the twenty-five  to thirty thousand per K came




12         from.  I  think  that  might  possibly be the case if




13         you tested a  waste all the way  through all  of the




'4         potential testings that were listed in the  March draft.




15         of  course, you  don't have  to do that.  If you have an




16         ignitable waste it's hazardous, period.  You can stop




17         there  if  you  wanted  to. You don't have to  go all the




^°         way through it.



19             My second  point is that we're in the process of




20         changing  the  methods by which one defines hazardous




21         waste, to a certain  extent, and I will -- I'll get




22         into that right now  as long as  we're on it.




23             First of all, the Section  3001 as it was put out




24         in  draft  form in  March has six  criteria which deter-




25         mine ignitable, toxic, radioactive, et cetera.  Our

-------
                                                            68






 1         General  Counsel  informs us that a criteria for a




 2         characteristic would be - let's say that you had




 3         enough information  about problems arising from ignitabl




 4         wastes,  a landfill  fire or what have you. That would




 5         be  sufficient rationale or the criteria then for




 6         selecting a characteristic for a hazardous waste




 7         would be ignitable  waste on fire and you cannot




 8         adequately control  it;  so      that's the criteria,




 9         The characteristic  is then that the waste has a flash




10         point of less than  140  degrees Fahrenheit, something




11         like that,  which or: course is in the draft.




12              Point two is that  there are a number of character-




13         istics,  which we now call characteristics, which we




14         were having trouble with, particularly in the toxicity




15         area - in other  words,  not too much agreement, but we




16         have enough information to make certain test procedures




17         to  form  a national  standard.  So, while in the March




18         version  toxicity was excluded, three different types




19         of  toxicity,  namely inorganic metal toxicity, organic  j




20         toxicity,  and the third variety being the carcinogen




21         biogenic radius  genetic activity, is now broken up,




22         one characteristic  in the three parts.




23              Our intention  is to continue to have a




24         characteristic for  Inorganic toxicity and to proceed




25         on  through the safe drinking water standards which

-------
                                                            69






 1        exist or which might  exist  in  the  future.  And  then to



 2        take the other two parts, the  organic  and  the carcinogeiji,



 3        and so  forth, and rather  than  put  out  a  characteristic



 4        to deal with  those wastes which we know  of to be



 5        hazardous because of  certain toxicity  and  list  them



 6        explicitly    but not  have a general  characteristic



 7        covering at this time, at the  time of  the  final 3001



 8        we would put  out a request  for information concerning



 9        the development of more accurate,  more nationally



10        acceptable protocols  and  so on in  those  areas that I



11        mentioned where we were having information problems



12        with.



13             This would, first of all, reduce  the  testing



14        requirements  and we would still cover  organic toxicity



15        and known carcinogens and known biogenetic changes



16        by RCRA, but  not by characteristics, at  this time.



17        So, that's where we're headedj     in that  particular



18        area.  That's a long  way  to reply  to a simple question.



19             Are there any other questions?   (No answer)



20        Apparently not.  Are  there any questions from the  floor



21        on 3010?   (No answer)  At this time  then what I would



22        like to do is close the formal hearing on  Section  3010



23        proposed regulations, take a short break,  and then we



24        will return and throw the meeting  open - we will be off



25        the record -  and we will be happy  to respond to written

-------
                                                              70






 1         or oral questions aoout  any part of Subtitle C.  At




 2         this time we will finish the formal hearing.




 3              (The hearing closed at 2:51 o'clock,




 4





 5




 6




 7





 8




 9




10




11




12




13




14





15




16




17




18




19




20




21




22




23




24




25

-------
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-------
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          Public phones are located in the lobby on the first
floor.  Please check with the registration desk for location
of our restrooms.  There will be no smoking permitted during
these meeti ngs.
          The Resource Conservation and Recovery Act of 1976
amended the Solid Waste Disposal Act.   It includes a new
Section 3010, which provides in Subsection (a), and I quote,
that "Not later than 90 days after promulgation or revision of
regulations under Section 3001, identifying by its character-
istics or listing any substance as hazardous waste subject to
this subtitle, any person generating or transporting such
substance, or owning or operating a facility for treatment,
storage or disposal of such substance, shall file with the
Administrator, (or with States having  authorized hazardous
waste permit programs under Section 3006), a notification
stating the location and general description of such activity
and the identified or listed hazardous wastes handled by such
person."
          "Mot more than one such notification shall be re-
quired to be filed with respect to the same substance.  No
identified or listed hazardous waste subject to this subtitle
may be transported, treated, stored or disposed of unless
notification has  been given as required under this subsection,
end of quote.
          EPA proposed regulations to  implement this section
of the Act in the Federal  Register on  July 11, 1978.  Copies
of the proposed  regulations and the Act are available on the
tables as you enter the room.   I am also submitting a copy of

-------
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-------
ATTENDEE LIST: EPA PUBLIC HEARING  CHARLESTON, SC
Aiken, James
Chief-Environmental Office
U.S. Army Training & Doctrine Command
Attn: ATEN FE E
Fort Monroe, VA 23651

Anderson, David
Ecologist
Duke Power Company
Civil Environmental Section
Charlotte, NC

Anderson, James
Manager-Environmental Affairs
Olin Chemicals Group
PO Box 2896
Lake Charles, LA 70602

Barton, Bill
President
Barton Pumping & Sewer Service
1029 Forest Parkway
Forest Park, GA 30050

Easily, William
Plant Engineer
General Electric Company
PO Box 10167
Charleston, SC 29411

Biggerstaff, Betty
Analyst
Trident Labs
125 Wagon Trail Road
Ladson, SC 29456

Bowers, J.C.
Asst. to Vice President
Union Camp
Terpene & Aromatics Division
PO Box 6170
Jacksonville, FL 32205

Bowyer, Bruce
Environmental Engineer
Fiber Industries,  Inc.
PO Box 4
Salisbury, NC 28114

Brehmer, Morris
Executive Manager
Virginia Electric & Power
PO Box 2666
Richmond, VA 23261
Brintle, Hal
Plant Engineer
SCM-Proctor Silex
511 Hay St.
Mount Airey, NC 27030

Brown, Carleton
Cooper Industries
Crescent Division
PO Box 2096
Sumter, SC 29150

Buck, Bill
Superintendent-Environmental Services
Allied Chemical
PO Box 1788
Columbus, SC 29202

Buffington, William
Environmental Quality Manager
Department Health & Environment
2084 East Main St.
Spartanburg, SC 29302

Busbin, Carey
Environmental Licensing Engineer
Southern Company Services
PO Box 2625
Birmingham, AL 35209

Campbell, Craig
South Carolina Department of
Health & Environmental control
Bull Street
Columbia, SC

Cannon, John
Cannons Engineering Corporation
350 Main St.
West Yarmouth, MA

Carter, Robert
North Carolina Department of Natural
Resources & Community Development
PO Box 27687
Raleigh, NC 27611

Cash, Paul
Manager-Environmental control
Mobile Chemical Company
PO Box 26683
Richmond, VA 23261

-------
Coon, Richard
Environmental Control Supervisor
DuPont
PO BOX 10228
Charleston, SC 29411

Day, John
Director-Environmental Programs
ORH
N. Charleston, SC 29406

Dixon, R. Capers
Solid Waste Consultant
Dept. of Health and Environmental
Control
PO Box 1628
Sumter, SC 29150

Dotson, E.R.
Environmental Coordinator
Yara Engineering Corp.
PO Box 617
Sandersville, GA 31082

DuPre, Billy
Environmental Quality Manager
Department of Health and
Environmental Control
Park Plaza  P-129
Greenwood, SC 29646

Duskin, Edgar
Executive Vice President
SAGA
PO Box 686
Dawson, GA 31742

Fanmine, Wayne
Department of Health and
Environmental Control
1000 Air Park Road
Charleston Heights, SC 29405

Furr, Keith
Virginia Polytech Institute
Building 356
Blacksburg, VA 24061

Godshall, E.F.
Manager-Environmental Engineering
Collins & Aikman Corp.
PO Box 1599
Charlotte, NC 28232
Gressang, Robert
Director-Environmental Affairs
Westvaco
PO Box 4795
Charleston Heights, SC 29405

Hall, M.E.
Senior Staff Engineer
Union Carbide Corporation
PO Box 2831
Charleston, WV 25330

Hall, Robert
Department of Health and Environmental
Control
605 N. Main St.
Greenville, SC 29601

Hall, William
Senior Environmental Engineer
Fiber Industries
PO Box 5457  Station B.
Greenville, SC 29606

Hardy, Warren
Associate Director
South Carolina Petroleum Council
716 Keenan Building
Columbia, SC 29201

Harris, John D.
Process Engineer
Amoco Chemicals Corporation
PO Box 987
Mt. Pleasant, SC 29464

Harrod, James
Environmental Engineer
Charter Intl Oil Company
PO Box 5008
Houston, TX 77012

Heidt, Henry
Environmental Quality Coordinator
Babcock & Wilcox Corp.
PO Box 785
Lynchburg, VA 24505

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Hinch, Thomas
Division of Solid Waste
Tennessee Dept. of Public Health
1522 Cherokee Trail
Knoxville, TN 37920

Hogue, Gary
Department of Health and
Environmental Control
PO Box 100
Fort Lawn, SC 29714

Hudson, Carlton
Chief-Policy and Planning
Dept. of Natural Resources
PO Box 44156
Baton Rouge, LA 70804

Inabinet, John
Environmental Quality Manager
Department of Health and
Environmental Control
2600 Bull Street
Columbia, SC 29201

Jackson, Stan
Environmental Engineer
Mobil Oil Corporation
150 E. 42nd St.
New York, NY 10017

James, David
Environmental Supervisor
Fiber Industries, Inc.
PO Box 2000
Florence, SC 29501

Johnson, R.Li
Chemical Engineer
Kodak-Tennessee Eastman Co.
Kingsport, TN 37662

Johnstone, John
Corporate Technical Director
Knowlton Brothers
105 West 45th St.
Chatanooga, TN 37410

Kay, Charles
Director-Environmental Conservation
Atlantic Richfield Company
1500 Market St.
Philadelphia, PA 19101
Keeney, Lewis
Director-Facilities Engineering
Bigelow Sanford, Inc.
PO Box 3089
Greenville, SC 29602

Kelly, Charles
Environmental Quality Manager
Dept. of Health
117 Marion St. NE
Aiken, SC 29801

Kelly, Mary
Administrative Vice President
League of Women Voters
4018 Sandweod Drive
Columbia, SC 29206

Lense, Frederick
Vice President-Scientific Affairs
Texize Chemicals Company
PO Box 368
Greenville, SC 29602

Lillard, Kenneth
Senior Research Engineer
DuPont
Drawer A
Camden, SC 29020

Matthews, William
Reporter
Charleston News & Courier
134 Columbus St,
Charleston, SC

Mesh, I/aurenthia
Senior Engineer
DeKalb County
1580 Road Haven Drive
Stone Mountain, GA 30038

McClure, Jack
Acting Chief, Hazardous Materials
Natural Resources/Environmental
Protection
Pine Hill Plaza
Frankfort, KY 40601

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Moczydlowski, Harvey
Environmentalist
Dept. Health & Environmental Control
Magnolia St.
Sumter, SC 29150

Moon, Daniel
Corporate d evelopment
Rollins Environmental Services
1 Rollins Plaza
Wilmington,  DE 19899

Moore, A.R.
Technical Service Engineer
Anchor Continental, Inc.
PO Drawer G
Columbia, SC 29250

Muntz, David
Project Engineer
Continental Forest Industries
Highway 56 South
PO Box 1425
Augusta, GA 30903

Murphy, James
Director of Engineering
W.R. Grace and Company
55 Hayden Ave
Lexington, MA 02140

Napowsa, C.  Jan
Associate Attorney
North Carolina Dept. of Justice
PO Box 629
Raleigh, NC 27602

Odom, Ralph
Superintendent
Spring Mills, Inc.
PO Box 111
Lancaster, SC 29720

Owen, Thomas
Director Environmental Protection
Union Camp Corporation
PO Box 570
Savanah, GA 31402

Perkins, Wes
Director Environmental Protection
Atlantic Richfield company
PO Box 1346
Houston, TX 77001
Rowley, James
Environmental Services
Westvaco, Inc.
North Charleston, SC

Schudel, J. George
Sandoz Colors & Chemicals, Inc.
Martin, SC 29836

Schulte, J. Herman
Senior Process Engineer
Mobil Chemical Company
PO Box 7368
Charleston Heights, SC 29405

Shade, Harmon
Engineer
DuPont
PO Box 10228
Charleston, SC 29411

Shearouse, Daniel
Environmental Engineer
Dept. Health & Environmental Control
Bull Street
Columbia, SC

Shevlin, Patrick
Environmental Technician
Texas Eastern Transmission
Houston, TX 77001

Sprayberry, Albert
Superintendent of Utilities
Dow Badische Company
Drawer 30 2-J
Anderson, SC 29621

Stachiw, Ken
Sanitary Engineer
U.S. AEHA
APG Maryland 21014

Tompkins, Christopher
Public Health Engineer
Virginia Department of Health
907 Governor St.
Richmond, VA

Town, William
Senior Engineer
Fiber  Industries,  Inc.
PO Box 15296
Charlotte, NC 28210

-------
Tuenge, Frank
Assistant Engineer
Department of Public Works
1352 Vega St.
Jacksonville, FL 32204

Turk, Frederick
Quality Assurance Supervisor
Fisher Scientific, Inc.
1 Reagent Lane
Fairlawn, NJ 07410

Turk, John
Vice President
Glass Packaging Institute
1800 K Street NW
Washington, DC 20006

Vaughn, David
Specialist Environmental Affairs
Olin Corporation
120 Long Ridge Road
Stanford, CT

Vogel, William
Environmental Chemist
Bowater Carolina Corporation
Catawba, SC 29704

Vyas, Harshad
Manager-Ecology Department
Mobay Chemical Corporation
PO Box 385 Union Metropolitan Park
Union, NJ 07083
Williams, Earl
Environmental Engineer
Dept. Health & Environmental Control
2600 Bull St.
Columbia, SC 29201

Wolfe, Roger
Asst. to Director Government Affairs
Sterling Drug Company
90 Park Ave
New York, NY 10016

Woolen, T.H.
Systems Environmental Planning
Regional Electric Water & Sewer
Utilities Board
PO Box 490
Gainsville, FL 32602

-------

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                     TRANSCRIPT


                        Public Hearing

         for Notification of Hazardous Waste Activities

           August 24, 1978, San Francisco,  California
      This hearing was sponsored by EPA, Office of Solid Waste,
and the proceedings (SW-44o) are reproduced entirely as  transcribed
       by the official reporter, with handwritten  corrections.
             U.S.  ENVIRONMENTAL  PROTECTION  AGENCY
                             1978

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17
18
19
20
                                 INDEX
                         UNITED STATES ENVIRONMENTAL
                        PROTECTION AGENCY, REGION  IX
                             215 Fremont Street
                       San Francisco, California 94105
 9

10

         Sheila Prindiville, Deputy Regional Administrator, Region IX



12


13
                               PANEL MEMBERS
14
     William  Sanjour, Chief, Assessment & Technology Branch, HWMD, Office of
15
          Solid Waste, EPA
16
    Timothy Fields, Jr., Desk Officer, Assessment & Technology Branch, Office
          of Solid Waste, EPA

    Bill Snyder, Technology Prograir, HWMD, Office of Solid Waste, EPA

    Amy Schaffer, Attorney, Office of General Counsel
     James  Channel^ Chief of Hazardous Materials Branch, Air and Hazardous
           Materials Division, Region IX



22


23
     Jonathon  Gross, C.S.R., Court Reporter
24


25

26


27


28

-------
 1   1:00 p.m.
 2             MS. PRINDIVILLE:  Good afternoon.  My name is
 3   Sheila Prindivi11e.  I am the Deputy Regional Administrator of
 4   EPA Region IX.  Welcome to the Regional Office and to this
 5   public hearing on the proposed regulation for preliminary n_p-
 6   tification of hazardous waste activities.
                  •Z-        %,    "&•
 1             This is the third public hearing on the subject to
 8   be held this month, the other two having been held earlier in
 9   Cleveland, Ohio and in Charleston, South Carolina.
10             A repeat session will be held in this room beginning
11   at 7:30 this evening.  So, if you know of anyone missing this
12   afternoon who might want to attend the evening session, please
13   suggest it to them.
14             We are dealing only with Section 3010 of the
15   Resource Conservation and Recovery Act in these sessions.
16             Section 3010, as proposed, requires that any person
17   generating or transporting hazardous waste, and any person
18   owning or operating a facility for treatment, storage or dis-
19   posal  of hazardous waste must notify the EPA Administrator or
20   the authorized State office no later than 90 days after prom-
21   ulgation or revision of Section 3001.
22             Now, Section 3001 requires the EPA to define
23   criteria and methods for identifying and listing hazardous
24   waste, and the question might arise as to why Section 3001,
25   identification of hazardous waste, is not dealt with first.
26             The answer is this:  Section 3001 rules, as proposed,
27   also provide the procedures for States to obtain authorization
28   from EPA to handle the 3010 notification program.

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 1            Since, as I stated before, the notification program
 2  must be accomplished within 90 days after the promulgation of
 3  the 3001 regulations, we are seeking the maximum amount of
 4  time now to put the procedures or notification in place.
 5            It is probably unnecessary for me to stress the im-
 6  portance of these hearings on the proposed regulations.  You
 7  who are here know their importance or you would not be giving
 8  your time to this meeting.
 9            No doubt many o~ you are also aware of the current
10  problem in the area called Love Canal in the southeastern
11  section of the City of Niagara Falls, New York.
12            There, beginning in 1947, when there were no regula-
13  tions dealing with the disposal of hazardous waste, more than
14  80 different chemical compounds, 11 of them now known to be
15  capable of causing cancer, were dumped into the old Love
16  Canal and covered with clay.
17            People bought houses built adjacent to this land,
18  and today the long-buried chemicals are bubbling up through
19  the ground into their basements and backyards, posing a health
20  threat of dire proportion.  This can be one result of inade-
21  quate disposal of hazardous waste.
22            RCRA provides strong statutory support for public
23  participation in the development, advising, implementation
24  and enforcement of any regulation, guideline, information or
25  program under the Act.
26            Consequently, we need to get down to the business of
27  hearing your views, both orally and as submitted in writing,
28  since they become a part of the official record of the

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 l  hearings, and will  be  taken  into  consideration  before  the
 2  promulgation of  the  Section  3010  regulation.
 3            Let me  simply  repeat  my welcome,  and  thank you for
 4  coming  and  giving your  time  and thought  to  the  proposed regu-
 5  1 a t i o n s .
 6            I would like  now to  introduce  your  moderator  for
 7  the afternoon session;  Mr. William  Sanjour, of  the  Hazardous
 8  Waste Management  Division, Office of Solid  Waste, EPA,
 9  Washington.
 10            Mr. Sanjour?
 11            MR. SANJOUR:   Thank you,  Ms. Prindiville.  Can you
 12  all hear me back  there?   Let me first  introduce  the members
 13  of  the  panel .
 14            I am Bill  Sanjour, with the  Solid Waste Office in
 15  Washington.  Next to me  is Tim  Fields, also with the Solid
 16  Waste Office; and Bill  Snyder,  with the  Solid Waste Office;
 17  and Amy Schaffer, with  the Office of Enforcement; and Jim
 18  Channel!, who is  the Chief of  the Hazardous Materials Branch
 !9  here in Region IX.
 20             Let me  read a  few  announcements first.  !Je would
 21   appreciate your  taking  time  to  register  at  the desk located in
 22   the back of the  room.   Also  in  the  rear  of  the auditorium are
 23   a  few publications,  including copies of  these proposed  regula-
 24   tions,  as well as copies  of  the draft  standards on defining a
 25   hazardous waste.
 26             Copies  of  the  transcript  will  be  available for in-
 27   spection here in  the Regional Office Library, and at EPA
28   headquarters in Washington.

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                                                                f




      ,    /VoVetHe.les?    ^  gj^^Q  j^tdwJL   u>  ope.r-w   /w_ai-
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the proposed regulations for the record.
          These proposed rules specify who must file notifica-
tion of hazardous waste activities, when and where notifica-
tion must be filed, and what information such notification
must contain.  A sample of the form suggested for use in this
process is also included.
          These proposed rules also contain provisions where-
by States may obtain authorization to receive and manage this
initial notification program.
          The Resource Conservation and Recovery Act of 1976
provides that regulations shall be promulgated only after
notice and opportunity for public hearings.  So, let me now
lay the groundwork and rules for the conduct of this hearing.
          The focus of a public hearing is on the public's
response to a regulatory proposal of the Agency.  The purpose
of this hearing, as announced in the July 11, 1978 Federal
Regi ster, is to solicit comments on the proposed regulations,
including any background information used to develop the reg-
ulations.
          This public hearing is being held not primarily to
inform the public nor to defend a proposed regulation^ but
more to obtain the public's response to EPA's proposed regula-
tion, and thereafter revise the regulation as may seem approp-
riate.
          All major  substantive comments made at the hearing
will be addressed at the time of final promulgation.  The
anticipated date of final promulgation is Spring of 1979.
          This will not be a formal adjudicatory hearing with

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 l   the right to cross-examination.   The members  of the public  are
 2   to present their views  on the proposed  regulation to the panel:
 3   and the panel  may ask questions  of the  people presenting
    statements to  clarify any ambiguities in  their presentations.
              If any member of  the audience wants a question asked
    of another member of the public, he will  be allowed to write
 7   the question and pass it to the  panel,  at which time the panel
 8   may ask the question of the appropriate person, and that per-
    son will  be given the opportunity to respond  accordingly.
              During this time, blank cards will  be available and
11   will  be passed out.   So, we ask  you to  list your questions  on
    these cards, and then the panel  will ask  them if they are rel-
13   evant to  the statements presented.
              Due  to time limitations, the  chairman reserves the
15   right to  limit lengthy  questions, discussions or statements.
    We would  ask that those of you who have prepared statements
    to make orally to please limit your presentation to a maximum
    of 10 minutes  so that we can get to all statements in a reas-
    enable time.  The written statements will be included in their
20   entirety  in the record.
              Written prepared statements will be accepted at the
22   end of the hearing.   And so, if  you wish  to provide a state-
    ment but  not present it orally,  that can  be accomplished.
              Persons wishing to make an oral statement, who have
    made an advance request by telephone or in writing, should
    indicate  their interest on the registration card.  And if you
27   have not  indicated your intent to give a  statement and you
28   decide to do so, please return to the registration table, fill

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out another card and give it to one of the staff.
          As we call upon an individual to make a statement,
he should come up to the lecturn and, after identifying him-
self for the Court Reporter, deliver his statement.
          At the beginning of the statement I will inquire as
to whether the speaker is willing to entertain questions from
the panel and the audience.  The speaker is under no obliga-
tion to do so, although within the spirit of this information
-sharing meeting, it would be of great assistance to the
Agency if questions were permitted.
          Anyone wishing to make statements will have an op-
portunity to do so.
          The Court Reporter is present here today.  The
statements, questions and comments will become part of the
public record, and this record will  be available for public
inspection in the Docket Section, Room 2111, Hazardous Waste
Management Division, Office of Solid Waste, U.S. Environmenta
Agency, 401 M Street, Southwest, Washington, D.C. 20460.
          A copy of the transcript will be available on re-
quest to all  registrants here today in about two or three
months .
          In addition to the public hearing here in San
Francisco today, an identical meeting was held in Cleveland,
Ohio, on August 18th, and in Charleston, South Carolina on
August 21st.
          Persons not wishing to deliver a statement today
may send a written statement to the address noted in the
Federal  Register before the closing of that docket, which is

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 l   September 11 , 1978.
 2             Now I will turn the meeting over to Tim Fields, who
 3   will give you an overview of the Subtitle C regulations on
 4   hazardous waste management, how they function, how the pro-
 5   posed regulations for preliminary notification of hazardous
 6   waste activites fit into this framework.
 7             Tim?
 8             MR.  FIELDS:  Thank you, Bill.
 9             Before I give you an overview of the interrelation-
10   ships of the various Sections of the Act, please note that
11   each of the Sections 1 am about to describe is a separate
12   regulation, and that public hearings will be held on each of
13   these regulations as it is proposed.
14             I would ask that you please keep in mind that we are
15   here today to address only the proposed Federal.regulations
16   defining procedures for notification of hazardous waste activ-
17   ities, and procedures whereby states may receive a special
18   authorization to manage this notification program.
*9             You will have the opportunity to comment on the
20   other Sections of the Act, which deal with the definition of
21   hazardous wastes and the detailed standards regarding genera-
22   tion, treatment, storage and disposal of these wastes as each
23   of the other regulations is proposed.
24             Therefore, it would insure the most effective use of
25   everyone's time here today if you would mentally review and
26   edit your statements and questions accordingly, in order to
27   minimize the involvement of these other Sections and to maxi-
28   mize or focus on the proposed regulations for notification of

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  l  hazardous waste activities.
  2            Subtitle C of the  Solid Waste Disposal Act, as
  3  amended by  the Resource Conservation and Recovery Act of  1976,
  4  creates a regulatory framework  to control hazardous waste.
  5  Congress has found that such waste presents special dangers  to
  6  health, and requires a greater  degree of regulation than  does
  7  nonhazardous solid waste.
  8            Because of the seriousness of this  problem, Congress
  9  intended that the States develop programs to  control it.   In
 10  the event that States do not choose to operate  this program,
 11  EPA is mandated to do so.
 12            Seven guidelines and  regulations are  being developed
 13  and proposed under Subtitle  C to implement the  national
 14  hazardous waste management regulatory program.
 15            It is important to note that the definition of  solid
 16  waste in the Act encompasses garbage, refuse, sludges and
 17  other discarded materials, including liquids, semisolids  and
 18  contained gasses, with a few exceptions, from both municipal
 19  and industrial sources.
 20            Hazardous wastes,  which are a subset  of all solid
 21  wastes, and which will be defined under regulations pursuant
 22  to Section  3001, are those which have particularly significant
 23  impact on public health and  the environment.
 24            Subtitle C creates a  management control system  which
 25  for those wastes defined as  hazardous, requires a cradle-to-
26  grave cognizance, including  appropriate monitoring, record
27  keeping and reporting throughout the system.
28            Section 3001 reauires EPA to define criteria and

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 1   methods for identifying and listing hazardous wastes.  Section
 2   3001 regulations should be published as proposed rules in
 3   December, 1978.  Those wastes which are identified as hazard-
 4   ous by these means are then included in the management control
 5   system constructed under Sections 3002 through 3006, and
 6   Section 3010, the Section we will be disussing here today.
 7             Those that are excluded will be subject to the re-
 8   quirements for nonhazardous solid waste which are being car-
 9   ried out by States under Subtitle D, under which open dumping
10   is prohibited and environmentally acceptable practices are re-
11   quired.
12             Section 3002 of the Act addresses the standards ap-
13   plicable to generators.  EPA's regulations under this Section
14   describe the classes of generators for whom some requirements
15   may vary.  For example, the Agency does not interpret the in-
16   tent of Congress to include regulation of individual home-
17   owners due to small quantities of hazardous wastes which they
18   may generate.
19             Section 3002 also requires the creation of a mani-
20   fest system which will track wastes from the point of genera-
21   tion to their ultimate disposition.  Section 3002 should be
22   published as a proposed rule in December, 1978.
23             Section 3003 addresses standards affecting trans-
24   porters of hazardous waste to assure that the waste is care-
25   fully managed during the transport phase.  The Agency explored
26   opportunities for meshing closely with the proposed and cur-
27   rent U.S. Department of Transportation regulations to avoid
28   duplication in the transportation area.
10

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  1             Section  3003  regulations  were  published  in  the
  2   Federal  Register as  propsed  rules on  April  28,  1978,  and  a
  3   public  hearing  on  them  was  held  on  June  20,  1978.   Additional
  4   hearings will be scheduled  in  the future.
  5             Section  3004  addresses standards  affecting  owners
  6   and operators of hazardous  waste storage,  treatment and dis-
  7   posal facilities.  These  standards  define  the  levels  of public
  8   health  and  environmental  protection to be  achieved  by  these
  9   facilities,  and provide the  criteria  against which  EPA will
 10   measure  applications  for  permits.
 II             Facilities  on a generator's property,  as  well as off
 12   -site facilities,  are covered  by these regulations, and do re-
 13   quire permits.  Generators  and transporters  do  not  otherwise
 14   need permits.
 15             I  would  like  to emphasize that again.  The  only
 16   people  who  require permits  are those  who treat,  store  and
 17   dispose  of  hazardous  wastes, not generators  and  not trans-
 18   porters, unless they  also treat, store or  dispose.
 19             Section  3004  should  be published  as  a  proposed  rule
20   in December, 1978.
21             Section  3005  regulations  describe  the  scope  and
22   coverage of  the actual  permit-granting process  for  facility
23   owners  and  operators.   Requirements for  the  permit  applicatior
24   as well  as  for  the issuance  and  revocation  process, are to be
25   defined  by  these regulations.
26             It should  be  noted that Section  3005  (e)  provides
27   for an  interim  status during the time period that the  Agency
28   or the  States are  reviewing  the  pending  permit  application.
11

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 1             Section 3005 regulations should be published as
 2   proposed rules in late December, 1978.
 3             Section 3006 requires EPA to issue guidelines for
 4   State hazardous waste programs and procedures by which States
 5   may seek both full and interim authorization to carry out the
 6   hazardous waste program in lieu of the EPA-admi m'stered pro-
 7   gram.
 8             States seeking authorization in accordance with
 9   Section 3006 guidelines a"e not required to adopt in entirety
10   all Federal hazardous waste management regulations promul-
11   gated under Subtitle C in order to receive EPA authorization.
12             Such a State regulatory program need only demon-
13   strate that'their hazardous waste management regulations are
14   consistent with an equivalent in effect to these EPA regula-
15   tions, and that adequate enforcement exists, in order to re-
16   ceive EPA authorization urder Section 3006 to operate and
17   impose a hazardous waste management program.
18             Section 3006 guidelines were published in the
19   Federal Register as proposed rules on February 1, 1978.  Final
20   rules are scheduled to be promulgated during December, 1978.
21             Section 3010 regulations define procedures by which
22   persons will have to notify, and Bill Snyder will get into
23   that  in detail in a moment.
24             EPA has made provision in these regulations for
25   States to be delegated this notification function upon appli-
26   cation to the appropriate EPA regional administrator.  It is
27   significant to note that no hazardous waste subject to
28   Subtitle C regulations may be legally transported, treated,
12

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 1   stored or disposed unless this timely notification is given to



 2   EPA or a designated State.



 3             The Agency intends to propose draft regulations dur-



 4   ing December, 1978 for the remaining Sections of Subtitle C.



 5   Final  regulations will be promulgated in 1979.  However, it is



 6   important for the regulated communities to understand that the



 7   regulations under Sections 3001 through 3005 do not take



 8   effect until  six months after they are promulgated.



 9             Thus,'there will be a time period after final  prom-



10   ulgation during which public understanding of the regulations



11   can be increased.  During this same period, notifications re-



12   quired under  Section 3010 are to be submitted, facility  permit



13   applications  required under Section 3005 will be distributed



14   for completion by applicants, and State programs will be auth-



15   orized by EPA.



16             Now, for a more detailed look at the Section 3010



17   regulations,  which we are here today to discuss, I am going to



18   turn the hearing over to Bill Snyder, who will discuss the



19   Section 3010  proposed rules in detail.



20             MR. SNYDER:  Thank you, Tim.



21             The regulations which are the subject of this hearing



22   are those affecting the preliminary notification of hazardous



23   waste  activities pursuant to Section 3010 of the Resource



24   Conservation  and Recovery Act of 1976.



25             Section 3010 of RCRA requires that all persons gen-



26   erating, transporting, treating, storing or disposing of



27   hazardous waste which has been identified or listed in the



28   Section 3001  regulations, with their revisions, must notify.
13

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          Persons who initiate such activities after the date
of promulgation of the Section 3001 regulations or the revis-
ions thereof are not required to notify pursuant to these
rules.
          However, these new entrants will be required to
notify EPA or an authorized State of their hazardous waste
activities pursuant to the Section 3002 (generator), 3003
(transporter), and 3005 (permit) regulations.
          The regulations jnder Sections 3001, 3002, 3003,
3004 and 3005 become effective six months after they are prom-
ulgated.  The date of promjlgation of the Section 3001  regula-
tions begins the notification period.  This notification
period extends for 90 days, during which time all persons sub-
ject to these regulations must notify either EPA or an author-
ized State.
          Within the six month period those persons required
to obtain a facility permi" pursuant to Section 3005 regula-
tions must apply for that permit.  Owners or operators of ex-
isting facilities requiring such a permit, who satisfactorily
comply with two requirements, these being to notify pursuant
to these regulations, and Z,  to submit an application for a
permit, will be qualified for interim status until a full per-
mit is i ssued.
          Failure to satisfy  both of these requirements will
jeopardize interim status and will prevent such persons from
legally treating, disposing or storing (for more than 90 days
hazardous waste after the six month period.
          There are several special cases which I would like
14

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to bring to your attention.  The first is a person owning and
operating more than one place of operation may file a single
notification for all facilities, provided that, A, all re-
quired information is clearly stated separately for each place
of operation and, B, copies of the pertinent information in
this single notification are sent to each EPA Regional Office
or authorized State having jurisdiction over the area in which
the places of operation are located.
          Another special  case is for highway transporters.
A responsible individual shall file notification for each
terminal  the transporter owns and utilizes for vehicles trans-
porting hazardous wastes.
          Railroad and pipeline companies:  A responsible in-
dividual  may file a single notification for the entire rail
line or pipeline, provided that copies of this notification
are sent to each EPA Regional Office or authorized State hav-
ing jurisdiction over the  area in which the railroad or pipe-
line is 1 oca ted .
          Federal agencies:  Federal agencies conducting haz-
ardous waste activities must comply with all notification re-
quirements in the same manner as other persons.
          Section 3001  regulations will probably be revised
from time to time to identify or list additional  hazardous
waste.  These regulations  require that generators, transport-
ers, treaters, stores and  disposers of hazardous  waste notify
EPA or an authorized State 90 days after such revision.
          Those persons who are unaffected by a revision to
Section 3001 regulations need not submit additional notifica-
                                                                     15

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 1   tion.   In addition, persons who are affected by such a revis-
 2   ion to Section 3001 regulations may also be required to apply
 3   for either a new or a revised facility permit before the re-
 4   vised  Section 3001  regulations become effective, which will  be
 5   six months after their pronulgation.
 6             These notifications must be filed with the approp-
 7   riate  EPA Regional  Administrator or State which has been
 8   granted authorization to manage the notification program.
 9             Authorization of States to  manage the notification
10   program:   -Fhese proposed rules also establish procedures for
11   authorizing States  to manage the notification program.  These
12   rules  will be promulgated before the  Section 3001  regulations
13   are promulgated, in order ~:o give the States an opportunity to
14   obtain this special author-zation before promulgation of the
15   Section 3001 regulations begins the notification process.
16             EPA and the authorized States must be ready to re-
17   ceive  notifications when the Section  3001 regulations are
18   promulgated.  A list of the- names and addresses of State
19   agencies  authorized to receive notifications will  be published
20   in the Federal Register prior to or at the same time as prom-
21   ulgation  of Section 3001 regulations  or revisions  thereof.
22             States will be authorized to receive notifications
23   from affected persons pursuant to the provisions of these
24   regulations.  This  authorization will be called "limited
25   interim authorization" and, if granted, will be granted separ-
26   ate and apart from  the interim or full authorizations granted
27   pursuant  to Section 3006 guidelines.
28             Few. if anv. Statps will have interim or full
16

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     authorization  before  or  during  the  90  day  notification  period.
     However,  it  is  EPA's  policy  to  allow those  States  that  are
     likely  to  be granted  such  authorization  to  also  be  granted  the
     authority  to manage the  notification program.
               It is  important  to  note  that notification  required
     subsequent to  this  initial notification  process, which  might
     occur as  a result of  revisions  to  Section  3001  regulations,
     when not  administered  by the  EPA regions,  shall  be  conducted
     only by States  having  a  Section 3006 authorization.
 10             Limited interim  authorization, therefore,  is  a  one-
 11   time authorization  which terminates on the  date  six  months
 12   after the  date  of promulgation  of  the  Section  3001  regulation
 13             If a  State  which has  been granted  limited  interim
 14   authorization  fails to apply  for or receive  interim  or  full
 15   authorization,  EPA  must  assume  responsibility  for  managing  the
 16   subsequent regulatory  requirements  of  Subtitle  C.
 17             This  disjointed  program  administration can  create
 18   problems;  that  is,  inefficient  processing  of applications for
 19   facility  permits which are received during  the  six  month  per-
 20   iod following  promulgation of the  Section  3001  regulations.
 21   To minimize  such potential problems, these  proposed  rules im-
 22   pose requirements upon States in order to  obtain this limited
 23   interim authorization.
 24             Further,  the authorized  States will  be encouraged
25   to operate and  manage  the  notification program  in  the same  or
26   in an equivalent manner  to that employed by  EPA, in  order to
27   achieve as much  national  uniformity as possible.   This  will
28   simplify  the notification  burden on those  persons  who may hav«
17

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 l  to notify for hazardous waste activities conducted in two or
 2  more States.  The manner ir which the State intends to carry
 3  out the notification program will be articulated in the plan
 4  that a State submits as part of its request for limited inter-
 5  im authorization.  The degree of equivalency with EPA's man-
 6  agement of the notification process will be one of the cri-
 7  teria used by the EPA Regional Administrator to determine
 8  whether to grant authorization.
 9            If the Regional Administrator finds a State applica-
1°  tion acceptable, he shall execute an agreement with that
11  State.  All  such agreements shall be effective no later than
12  120 calendar days after promulgation of these preliminary
13  notification regulations, and shall terminate on the date six
14  months after promulgation of the Section 3001 regulations.
15            if a State is granted limited interim authorization
16  to manage the notification program, all persons conducting
17  hazardous waste activities in that State will be required to
18  notify that State.
19            if a State hazardous waste definition is more
20  stringent than that promulgated under Section 3001 regula-
21   tions, then the applicable State agency could use this defin-
22  ition for the purpose of notification by affected persons in
23  that State.
24             State hazardous waste definitions which are less
25   stringent than that promulgated pursuant to Section 3001 regu-
26   lations cannot be used for notification purposes.
27             With respect to notifications submitted to EPA,
28   these proposed rules would allow affected persons tn malcp

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 1   confidentiality claims in three areas in their notification
 2   responses.  The first area would be in the types of hazardous
 3   waste handled, as identified by characteristics under Section
 4   3001 regulations; a second, the description of hazardous
 5   wastes handled, as identified by listing under Section 3001
 6   regulations or by general type; and third, an estimated amount
 7   of hazardous wastes handled annually, which at this time is an
 8   optional  item.
 9             Comments are requested from interested parties as to
10   which notification items should provide for a confidentiality
11   claim, and reasons why each such item should be considered
12   confidential.
13             EPA  is considering acquiring affected persons to
14   provide substantiation of their confidentiality claims at the
15   time of initial notification.
16             There are two options.  The first option is the one
17   in these  proposed rules.  Affected persons would be allowed to
18   make confidentiality claims without providing substantiation
19   at the time of initial notification.   If a request for infor-
20   mation submitted was made later, EPA  would then request that
21   the affected person provide substantiation of confidentiality
22   claims in accordance with the confidentiality of business in-
23   formation regulations.  If there are  a large number of re-
24   quests from the public for copies of  notification responses,
25   there will be  a burden on the EPA Regional Office resources to
26   request substantiation from each submitter.
27             The  second option is designed to avoid that problem
28   by requiring submission of substantiation at the time of
19

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initial notification.  EPA would not have to go back to sub-
mitters again if requests were received by EPA for notifica-
tion responses containing confidentiality claims.  However,
this would place an additional initial  reporting burden upon
affected persons.
          Comments are requested on these or other options for
the confidentiality provisions.  In addition, suggestions on
ways of making the notification items reasonably accessible to
the public would be appreciated.
          These proposed rules also contain a sample form for
use in filing notification.   Use of the form is not mandatory,
but its use is encouraged to facilitate the notification
process.
          To assist in complying with these rules, EPA intends
to mail the sample form and instructions to all known persons
who may be required to notify.  EPA will also encourage States
managing the notification program to use a similar procedure.
Failure of the agency or the authorized State to reach any af-
fected person will not, however, relieve that person of the
legal requirement to notify.
          If a person fully and accurately completes and re-
turns the form presented in these regulations for each place
of operation, the person will have complied with the require-
ments of these regulations.
          The notification items:  If a person chooses not to
use the form, that person must file a written notification
stating clearly and legibly the following information for each
20

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          The name of the organization and place of operation;
          The mailing address and location of the place of
operation;
          The principal  activity of the place of operation,
either by 4-digit Standard Industrial Classification Code, the
SIC Code, or by other description; that is, inorganic chemical
manufacturing, petroleum refining;
          An identification number for the place of operation;]
          The name, telephone number and address of a responsi-
ble individual at the place of operation who could be contact-
ed for clarification of information submitted in the notifica-
                                                                    21
ti on;
          A certification that the information submitted is
complete and accurate;
          The type or types of hazardous waste activity con-
ducted by the person, such as generation, transportation,
treatment, storage or disposal of hazardous waste;            j
          The types of hazardous waste handled by the person, j
as identified by characteristics under Section 3001  regula-
tions.  All  wastes which are ignitable, reactive, infectious,
radioactive  or corrosive must be described as such.   However,
persons who  cannot, in the 90 day period allowed, definitively
determine whether their wastes are toxic may so indicate.  If
after the 90 day period it is determined that a waste is non-
toxic, a statement to this effect must be filed no later than
180 days after promulgation of the Section 3001 regulations.
Otherwise, the person will be considered, for notification
ourposes, to be conducting hazardous waste activities.

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          I want to point out that it should be noted that
there is a mistake in item 5 of the sample form.  An unde-
termined response is only .allowed for the toxic characteristic
It is not allowed for the radioactive and corrosive character-
istic.
          Continuing with notification items if a person
chooses not to use the forn:  A description of the hazardous
waste handled as identified by listing under the Section 3001
regulations, or by general  type and specific contents, where
known, using the best available information, such as waste
water treatment sludge containing lead compounds;
          Another item:   A  statement indicating what informa-
tion, if any, is to be considered confidential business infor-
mati on;
          And last, but certainly not least, the optional item
is an estimate of the annual amount of hazardous waste handled
based on the period from January 1, 1977 to December 31, 1977.
For affected persons not conducting hazardous waste activi-
ties during any or all  of that period, the annual volume
should be estimated in  the best practical manner.
          I would now like to turn the hearing over to Ms.  Amy
Schaffer, who will address the enforcement aspect.
          MS. SCHAFFER:   Thank you, Bill.
          Good afternoon.  I'd like to speak very briefly con-
cerning the enforcement of Section 3010.  The goal of the
Environmental Protection Agency is to insure that the regulat-
ed hazardous waste community complies with the RCRA Hazardous
Waste Regulations.
                                                                    22

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 1             EPA  views  the  notification  process  as  the  first
 2   step  in  obtaining  overall  compliance  with  the regulations —
 3   learning who will  be  subject  to  the regulations  and  what  and
 4   how much waste they  will  handle.
 5             We have  attempted to maximize  compliance with
 6   Section  3010 regulations  in three  ways.   First,  we have  tried
 7   to simplify the  regulation to make it  easy to notify,  and  to
 8   relieve  some of  the  reporting burden  from  the regulated  com-
 9   munity.
 10             Second,  the Agency  is  planning  to  inform the regu-
 11   lated  community, as  Bill  said, of  the  notification require-
 12   ment  and the advantages  of voluntary  compliance.  This dis-
 13   persal of  information is  an ongoing activity  which has al-
 14   ready  begun.
 15             Finally, EPA plans  on  taking strong enforcement
 16   action against those  people who  do not comply.   Violation  of
 17   the notification requirement  is  considered very  serious  be-
 18   cause  those people who do not notify  evade the entire  control
 19   system and frustrate  our  efforts to build  a data  base  defining
 20   the scope  of the hazardous waste community.   EPA  will  not  hes-
 21    itate  in taking  action against any person  who attempts to
 22    evade  the  system.
 23              The  kinds of questions and comments  that I,  as a
 24    representative of  the Office  of  Enforcement,  is  interested in
25    hearing are things such as how stringent should  EPA  be in
26    assessing  penalties to normotifiers, and how  can  we  better in-
 27    form all hazardous waste  handlers  of their requirement to
28    notify?
23

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 l             Thank you.
 2             MR. SANJOUR:  Back to me?
 3             MS. SCHAFFER:  Back to you, Bill.
 4             MR. SANJOUR:  I think we should now go to those per-
 5   sons who have indicated that they would like to give prepared
 6   statements.  Let me say that after I have run through the list
 1   of people who have indicated they wanted to give prepared
 8   statements, I will allow anyone else speaking time.
 9             First, Mr. T. A. Seeburger of Bethlehem Steel.  Is
10   he here?
11             Mr. William F. Jopling of the California Department
12   of Health Services.
15             MR. JOPLING:  Mr. Sanjour, is it?
14             MR. SANJOUR:  That's good enough for government.
15             MR. JOPLING:  Okay.  Panel members and fellow
16   attendees, I am William F. Jopling, the Acting Assistant Chief
17   Hazardous Materials Management Section of the California State
18   Department of Health Services.  We recently changed our name
19   from the State Health Department.  I have copies here of the
20   statement, if you want to follow along.
21             MR. SANJOUR:  Thank you.
22             MR. JOPLING:  The Department of Health Services has
23   the authority and responsibility for the regulation of hazard-
24   ous waste activities in California, pursuant to State law.
25   Further, the Department has been designated in accordance with
26   the provisions of Section 4006 (b) of the Resource Conserva-
27   tion and Recovery Act as the State agency responsible for
2^   hazardous waste management nlannina and imnlpmpntatinn within
24

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the boundaries of the State of California.



          We intend to seek limited interim authorization to



carry out the notification program required by Section 3010 of



RCRA, and have been authorized Federal grant funds to accom-



plish the regulatory agency portion of this activity.



          The notification activity will require close cooper-



ation between the Department and Region IX of EPA in order to



prepare and carry out this program in an effective manner. We



look forward to a continuation of our close working relation-



ship with the Regional Office in this matter.



          I have prepared a little sketch, which can't be seen



beyond the third row, of the two different elements under



3010.  The first of these is obtaining limited interim author-



ization for the Department.



          For those States seeking authorization, the regula-



tions call for the development of a notification plan by the



State agency, review and approval by the Regional Administra-



tor of EPA, and finally, agreement for limited interim author-



ization with four months of the promulgation of the Section



3010 regulations.  And there are other requirements, but we



believe that these requirements for authorization are reason-



able, and that this can be accomplished in a fairly straight



forward fashion.



          The time squeeze of major concern to us is this 90



day period immediately following the promulgation of 3001



regulations sometime late in 1978.  In that period the State



will distribute notification forms and other pertinent mater-



ial, and will receive back the recorded information from
25

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 1   parties involved in hazardous waste activities.
 2             It is our understanding that EPA,  through a separ-
 3   ate contractor, has developed lists of parties to be notified.
    Although we have no direct knowledge of the  size and extent of
    the California list, the EPA State Guidance  Document for fis-
    cal 1979, which guides the State in their program work,  indi-
 7   cated that there was something like 77,000 hazardous waste
 8   generators in California.   This  was more than double the num-
    ber in any other State.
10             This suggests  that there may be substantial duplica-
11   tion or extraneous parties included in the list.  If some ef-
12   fort could be given to screen and refine the lists prior to
    the mail-out, it would certainly make events during the  crit-
    ical 90 day period much  more manageable, and reduce unneces-
15   sary problems to those receiving notification forms.
              Comments were  requested on the advisability of
17   either distributing permit applications along with the noti-
18   fication forms or independently  distributing applications
    following the return of  the notification forms to the agency.
    We see some major problem  either way.
21             The separate mailing will result in a  significant
22   logistics problem involving the  screening of returned forms to
    identify parties which should receive permit applications, a
24   second distribution and  return activity, and a major effort in
25   the recording of all these actions which must take place with-
2<>   in a very limited time.
27             On the other hand, the combined mail-out will  result
28   in a majority of oarties,  that is, the waste generators  who do
26

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 l   not  store, treat or dispose of wastes on site,  receiving  in-
 2   applicable permit applications.
 3            We  tend to support  the  single mail-out,  provided
 4   that a clear  explanation  is included as to who  must fill  out
 5   and  return the application, and who should ignore  it.  This
 6   would be particularly important in the case of  several hun-
 7   dred hazardous waste facility operators who have already  sub-
 8   mitted State  hazardous waste  facility permit applications to
 9   the  Department of Health  Services.
10            Several thousand waste  generators, who have been
11   contacted through our Hazardous Waste Survey in recent years,
12   may  be somewhat confused  by what  may appear to  be  duplication
13   or repetition of this survey  effort.  Again, an explanation
14   could correct this.
15            The notification requires the identification of the
16   types of hazardous wastes in  accordance with the criteria of
17   the  Section 3001 regulations.  Inasmuch as many parties may
18   have no knowledge of the  criteria, and this would  be the  firsl
!9    contact with  the regulations, EPA might consider preparing a
20    one-sheet summary of the  main points of the criteria for  1n-
21    elusion with  the notification form, or including a list of
22    common name wastes, such  as the list that California has  de-
23    veloped of wastes which are generally considered to be hazard-
24    ous.
25             Then, this would assist the parties in determining
26    whether they  handle these types of wastes, and  whether or not
27    they should be considered as  being hazardous.
28             Section 250.820 excludes owners of inactive
27

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 l   facilities from the notification process.  Perhaps it is be-
 2   yond the scope of the law to include inactive operations.
 3   However, their inclusion could be a means to obtain informa-
 4   tion which would be useful in preventing possible problems
 5   associated with future uses of these areas, as Ms. Prindiville
 6   has commented upon already.
 7             It would be very beneficial to have some idea of
 8   waste volume provided.  Apparently, the law does not require
 9   this information, and it is an optional item in the proposed
10   regulations.  Perhaps, however, at least small volume opera-
11   tions could be strongly encouraged to provide some indication
12   of their size, and this would assist in setting priorities for
13   permit activities.
H             With specific regard to the sample notification
15   form, many industries may treat and/or store wastes at on-sit£
16   facilities and eventually dispose of hazardous residues at
1?   off-site operations.  Under Item 4, if instructions were in-
18   eluded to circle the appropriate on-site activity, as is done
19   for the transport mode, this would give a clearer picture of
20   what is going on at the particular operation.
21             There has already been an explanation and comment
22   regarding the "undetermined" column, so I won't repeat that.
23             We have some questions regarding EPA's intention
24   that was touched on earlier, regarding the follow-up of noti-
25   fication violations, particularly if a significant percentage
26   do not respond.  This could be a vast and major manpower ef-
27   fort.
28             Also, we have questions regarding the use of State
28

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 1   criteria which may be more restrictive than EPA's criteria in
 2   some aspects, and less restrictive in others.
 3             There are also questions regarding permit applica-
 4   tions for facilities which are not included in the State
 5   hazardous waste permit requirements.
 6             We will pursue these subjects with the Region IX
 7   staff, and if we have further question, why, we will certainly
 8   get back to EPA Washington on it.
 9             I want to thank you very much for the opportunity to
10   comment on the proposed regulations.  I am willing to answer
11   questions as best I can.
12             MR. SANJOUR:  If anyone in the audience has any
13   questions of Mr. Jopling, please write them out on the cards
14   that will be handed out to you.  If you don't have a card,
15   raise your hand and we will have someone trot out there.
16             Does anyone on the panel have any questions?  Well,
17   I do.  I think I will start them off, exercising my priority
18   as Chairman.
19             Bill, you talked about the inactive facilities.
20   Does California regulate inactive facilities?  Do you require
21   notification and compliance with the regulations?
22             MR. JOPLING:  As of now there is a bill in the leg-
23   islature which will require appropriate and proper disclosure,
24   equivalent somewhat to what EPA  is requiring in their criter-
25   ia.  But for past operations, I  don't think there is a good
26   handle on what has been going on in the forties and fifties,
27   and so forth.  There just wasn't a program at any particular
28   level of the government at that  time.
29

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              MR. SANJOUR:  But does your law or your regulations
     cover  inactive facilities?
              MR. JOPLING:  No, it doesn't.  I will check on that
     further with you, but just off the top of my head, I can't re-
     call that there  is a section that is particularly directed at
     that,  and maybe  it is generically covered in some.
 7            MR. SANJOUR:  Is it specifically excluded then?
 8            MR. JOPLING:  No.  In our law it says that the Stat
     Department  of Health shall carry out a program for the manage-
 10   ment of hazardous wastes  in California.  So, under those kinds
 11   of  broad terms,  we could  address abandoned facilities.
 12            Let me back up  a little.  In California there are
     perhaps three or four different agencies that are involved in
     the management of land disposal facilities, one of these beinc
     the State Water  Resources Control Board.  And they operate
     under  a Water Quality Control Act, which is very comprehensive
 17   regarding the protection  of surface and ground waters.  It
 18   goes beyond  the  EPA permit program.
              Under  that particular law there is provision for
 20   clean  up and correction of facilities that are causing prob-
 21   lems,  and an attempt to recover money from the violators in
 22   previous years.  There is a fund established in the State for
     correction  and clean up if it can't be accomplished in some
     other  manner.
              That is being used, for example, as I understand it
     in  Southern  California to clean up and control existing land
27   disposal operations that  treat chemical wastes, and keep that
28    under  control.   So, in that particular area, under that law,
30

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 l   we do have a handle on it.  But for the Hazardous Waste
 2   Control Act, we haven't got the specific language in that as
 3   yet.
 4             MR. SANJOUR:  Under the Hazardous Waste Control Act
 5   is there something analagous to these notification provisions
 6   that we have in the Federal Act?
 1             MR. JOPLING:  There is a provision in the law that
 8   says the Department of Health shall determine trends in waste
 9   generation and provide technical assistance, that kind of a
10   thing.
11             MR. SANJOUR:  Persons who own or operate facilities,
12   are they required to notify the Health Department, under your
13   law, that they operate such facilities?
14             MR. JOPLING:  I think we have the same authority and
15   responsibility under different language, in that if we have to
16   determine trends of generation rates, and so forth, this is
17   done through a survey program that we have conducted over a
!8   four or five year period.  And what we do, we have the author-
19   ization to go out and inspect facilities, obtain information
20   on the types of wastes that are generated and where they are
21   going to.
22             so, we don't have the words "notification activity,"
23   but we have the same activity, on a county-by-county basis,
24   being carried out over the years.
25             MR. SANJOUR:  I am raising all these points because
16   you said perhaps it's beyond the scope of the law, however,
27   you would like the inclusion.  You have indicated you would
28   like us to include in our notification process some way to get
31

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 1  inactive facilities to notify, and I just wondered how
 2  California coped with the identical problem.
 3            MR. JOPLING:  Okay.  Well, I think it's analagous to1
 4  what we are attempting to do on the active facilities.  We are
 5  proceeding to identify active generators and storage opera-
 6  tions, and so forth, under our Hazardous Waste Act, and we are
 7  pursuing that at a pretty good rate, fairly intensively.
 8            Now, EPA has the requirement, under RCRA, to carry
 9  out this notification activity, and for active facilities. So,
10  essentially, we have gone the same way here.  We are doing the
11  same thing.  And although it may be considered partially a
12  duplication, it's getting us more and additional information,
13  and a very thorough job.
14            Now, what I am saying is for inactive facilities,
15  the State may be moving under the Porto-Cologne Act, to iden-
16  tify and correct inactive facilities and the problems they
17  create.
18            Similarly, I don't think it would hurt to have RCRA
19  also address this particular issue and attempt to see what
20   the problems are and where we are with regard to the inactive
21   facilities.
22             MR. SANJOUR:  Thank you.  Any other panel members
23   have any questions?  Tim?
24             MR. FIELDS:  One comment.  The State directories
25   that we are developing are being screened for duplication and
26   extraneous entires.  We have a contractor who,is preparing a
27   nationwide directory, and it should be available in September
28   And 77,000 generators is wav out of line.  That number is way
32

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too big.  The estimate we will have for California is probably
around 15,000.  So, that will be supplied to you.
          MR. JOPLING:  I am ver • happy to hear that.  The
funds that we had scheduled for this activity would have just
about paid for the postage stamps on the first mail-out if
there were 77,000.  So, good news.
          MR. FIELDS:  Yes.  I think the comments are good
that you made regarding including some additional information
regarding 3001 in the notification mail-out.  I think it migh
be appropriate.   It's a good suggestion.
          MR. JOPLING:  Thank you.
          MR. SANJOUR:  Anyone else?  Let me just add, for
clarification, since this point always cones up at these
meetings, about why the request for volume data is not manda-
tory, why it's optional in the form.
          MR. JOPLING:  Yes.
          MR. SANJOUR:  And, in fact, why the form itself is
optional.  That's because the General Counsel has advised us
that since the Act itself does not call for this information,
and since the Act does not give any authority to the Adminis-
trator to call for this information, our General Counsel
thought we night be exceeding our authority to make that in-
formation mandatory.   That's basically why it's not in there.
          MR. JOPLING:  Yes.
audience.
          MR. SANJOUR:  We have some questions from the
          If a party has submitted an application to the
    State, does  this  suffice  as  notification?
                                                                     33

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 l             MR.  JOPLING:   I  think probably you  can answer that
 2   better than I  can.
 3             MR.  SANJOUR:   Yes,  probably I  can.   I  think the  an-
 4   swer is no.
 5             MR.  JOPLING:   I  would think there  are  some differ-
 6   ences in our permit application form.
 7             MR.  SANJOUR:   I  am  not a  lawyer,  and  perhaps  we
 8   would have to  find  out  about  this one by legal  counsel, and  we
 9   will do so.  But my amateur opinion is that  a piece  of  paper
10   has to somehow notify an authorized place in  that 90 day per-
il   iod, not before, not after, but during that  90  day period
12   addressing application.
13             So,  I  think that if you have a permit  application  on
14   file prior to  that, I don't think that would  constitute appli-
15   cation.   But that is just  my  guess.
16             Would  anybody  like  to throw a  verbal  question,
17   without writing  it  down?
18             UNIDENTIFIED  AUDIENCE MEMBER:   Along  the line of
19   your statement that enforcement of  notification  violations
20   will need excessive time and  personnel,  do  you  envision in
21   the future delegating some of your  responsibility to local
22   agencies, with proper funding and guidelines, to relieve you
23   from this manpower  limitation?
24             MR.  JOPLING:   As far as I understand  3010, it
25   reaches the point of the State notifying EPA  of  the  violations
26   in terms of those that  haven't notified, and  then makes no
27   statement beyond that particular point.
28             MS.  SCHAFFER:   Bill, can  I add something on to that?
34

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 J   That  is  true,  that  under  limited  interim  authorization  a
 2   State  does  not  have the authority  to  enforce  the  notification
 3   requirement.   That  will be  an  EPA  activity.   Hopefully  every-
 4   body  will comply  so we don't  have  to  worry  about  notifying.
 5            MR.  SANJOUR:  Right.
 6            MR.  JOPLING:  Would  you  want me to  answer  regarding
 7   the State's activities in enforcement, very briefly  on  that?
 8            MR.  SANJOUR:  Sure.
 9            MR.  JOPLING:  Under  separate authority,  not 3010,
 10   we have  enforcement provisions  and  regulations  and  legislatio
 11   and so forth.   And  with regard  to  passing this  along to local
 12   government, we  see  the need for local government  to  be  in-
 13   volved,  and they  are  authorized to  carry  out  and  enforce  the
 14   State  Hazardous Waste Control  Act  Provision.  At  least, the
 15   County Health  Officer is  empowered  to do  that.  And  we  want
 16   to see those counties that  have an  interest in  surveillance
 17   and enforcement after State training  programs,  to  become  1n-
 18   volved in this  particular activity.
 19            MR.  SANJOUR:  Any other  questions?  Thank  you
 20   Mr. Jopling.
 21            The  next  person who  has  requested time  to  speak is
 22   Jean  Siri, with the West  Contra Costa Conservation League.
 23            MS.  SIRI:   Mr.  Sanjour, members of  the  panel, I am
 24   also  speaking  for the Save  San  Francisco  Bay  Association  and
 25    for the  West Contra Costa Grey  Panthers.  I have  spoken with
 26    Sierra Club, Friends  of Earth,  Citizens for a Better Environ-
27    ment,  and if they can be  present tonight, they  will  be, or
28    this  afternoon.   But  we are in  agreement  on some  of  the
35

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subjects that I wanted to speak to.
          I have a few prcblems with this.   Ms.  Schaffer, I
think, will understand that one of the great problems, from
the public standpoint and from the citizen  standpoint, is the
problem of regulation and enforcement.  We  have  wonderful reg
ulations in California.   You have wonderful  regulations.   But
if there is no enforcement, it doesn't matter what you have.
          The fact that there is no enforcement  by either of
you of abandoned sites gives us cause to pause,  to say the
least.
          I have been tolc  by the EPA and Channel  9 that in
our area, for example, we have a Love Canal  abrewing.   We als
have one of the worst Class 1 sites in the  United States, wit
the possible exception of one in New Jersey.  And so,  we take
enforcement very seriously, and we take abandoned sites very
seriously.
          If we have 77,000 hazardous waste  generators now in
the State, we must have had some in 1940, before there was an
enforcement at all.   So,  that will be a continuing problem to
the citizenry.
          We find — and I must say that this is  true of all
the organizations — we have trouble with the confidentiality
provisions.  We don't find ourselves worrying about winning
the confidence of the regulated community with hazardous
waste, which we find a great threat both in  the  transporta-
tion of hazardous waste through the community and in the
dumping of hazardous waste with so-called but not working
impervious seals and barrels that rust through.   We don't
                                                                     36

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    find ourselves  too excited about winning the confidence of the
    regulated community as much as we do  the safety and health of
    the community,  and we think that trade secrets just may not be
    the way to go on  that point.
              The other item that we find missing  in 250.11 defi-
    nitions is that there is, for the purpose of this part, a
    great discussion  of the disposal of hazardous  waste, what it
    means, and it goes on to the site discharge, deposit,  inject-
    ion, et cetera.   There is nothing there that states disposal
    might mean recycling, resource recovery, matchmaking of waste
    generators to provide raw material for further chemical pro-
    cessing.  And we  think that that may  be in the definition.
              That' s  all I have.
              Oh, I have one more thing that I would like  to add
    to the enforcement problem.  There was an article in the
    San Francisco Examiner last week from the State Health Depart-
    ment.  There has been some criticism about enforcement, and
    they have a budget of $750,000 for this year.
              With $750,000 this year they have one full-time in-
    spector to visit dump sites and industrial plants in 14
    northern counties.  So, this is why we find ourselves a little
    hysterical on the subject of enforcement when we find it inad-
    equate.
24             MR. SANJOUR:  Jean, will you entertain questions?
              MS. SIRI:  Oh, yes.
              MR. SANJOUR:  Are there any from the panel?
              MR. FIELDS:  A comment on the definition of
    of hazardous wastes.  Mow, the problem with that is that we
27             MR. FIELDS:  A comment on the definition of disposal
28
                                                                    37

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 l  are using the definition of disposal that is in the Act, and
 2  that is the definition that Congress gave us to work with.
 3  The definition did not adcress recovery, whatever.  So, that's
 4  why the definition of disposal is the way it is.  We are just
 5  adopting the definition Congress gave us to work with regard-
 6  ing treatment, storage, disposal.
 7            MS. SIRI:  Perhaps what we need here is a little
 8  amendment to the Act by the Congress, both for abandoned sites
 9  and for resource recovery, and that might be the way to go.  I
10  think I brought this up with your panel  once before.
11            MR. SANJOUR:  Yes.  It's a little far afield, I
12  guess,  to talk about abandoned sites.  But it is a hot issue.
13  I still have some questions for you.
14            Even though it's not terribly relevant to 3010, I
15  would be interested in your suggestions about how we can
16  handle  the whole problem of abandoned sites within this cur-
17  rent law.
18            MS. SIRI:  Well, I think the only thing I can ever
19  see that ever works is some kind of punitive action.  You have
20  some sort of fine for people who do not report that they have
21   been dumping hazardous waste, or dumped it.  And you will have
22  to have a cutoff date of some kind.  But I think the really
23  heavy dumping of hazardous waste probably is since World War
24   ii.
25             For example, if you started then, and requested
26   that all dump operators and all people who knew of a site that
27   was used for anything that might be considered hazardous were
28   required to report or face a penalty — that is the onlv
38

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   1 {possible way  I can think of.  Otherwise it's just going to
      turn up when  you have a health problem or a serious problem.
               MR. SANJOUR:  The way this law is worded is that th
      only people that we can hold responsible are the owners of th
      sites, not the people who dumped it there, if they no longer
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     own it.
               For example, in the Love Canal it was Hooker
Chemical that put the stuff in the Canal, but Hooker Chemical
doesn't own that site.  The City of Niagra Falls owns it.  Yo
couldn't hold Hooker Chemical  under this law.
 11  1           With that limitation, then, I would like to rephras
 12   the question.  What can we do about  it?
          MS. SIRI:  I don't know, but you will have to do
something.  Unless the State takes over this kind of problem,
the Federal Government is going to be responsible, and is go-
     ing to be responsible for cleaning up the mess and responsibl
 17   for any health condition resulting from it.
               So, I am not a legislator with this problem, but
someone is going to have to do something.  And logically, it
should be OSHA, or it should be some health group, some group
that deals with public health threats and chemical hazards to
public health.
23             MR. SANJOUR:  All right.  Are there any questions
from the audience of Ms. Siri?
          MR. CHANNELL: Bill, I have one.  You made reference
to a Love Canal type situation brewing in California.   Did
you have a particular site in mind?
28  I            MS. SIRI:  The EPA people the other day suggested
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that the old Antioch site, which was an industrial  tank site
in Antioch, was a potential  Love Canal because the City of
Antioch has allowed homes to be built surrounding  it.   Maybe
the City should be held responsible.
          MR.  SANJOUR:   Any  other questions?  Thank you,  Jean.
          The next person requesting  time to speak is  a repre-
sentative of the Utility Solid Waste  Activities Group  in
Washington, D.C.
          MR.  WIEGMAN:   Good afternoon.   My name is Stephen A.
Wiegman.  I am an Environmental Planning  Engineer  with the
Southern California Edison Company.  I am appearing today as
representative of the Utility Solid Waste Activities Group,
known by the acronym USWAG,  and the Edison Electric Institute.
With me today, also, is David Weinberg,  of the law firm which
serves as counsel to USWAG.
          USWAG is successor to the Solid Waste Group  Task
Force of the Edison Electric Institute,  the principal  national
association of investor-owned electric light and power compan-
ies.  EEI represents member  companies who own and  operate
about 75 percent of the nation's electrical capacity,  and
service approximately 79 percent of the  ultimate electric
service customers in the United States.
          Our membership has actively participated in  EPA's
efforts to date to develop regulations under the Resource
Conservation and Recovery Act of 1976.  This participation
reflects our recognition that portions of these regulations
will impact substantially upon our industry, and a commitment
to attempt to work cooperatively with EPA to see that  this
                                                                    40

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     important  statute  is  properly  implemented.
               With  this  background,  I  am  pleased  to  offer  a  few
     of  USWAG's  observations  on  EPA's  proposed  rules  for  prelimin-
     ary  notification of  hazardous  waste activities  under Section
     3010  of  RCRA.   Since  USWAG  will  soon  file  more  comprehensive
  °   comments on  these  proposed  regulations,  I  will  limit my  re-
  7   marks  today  to  the  high  points of  our  thoughts.
               First, I  would  like  to  repeat  our fundamental  con-
     cern  about  the  fragmented manner  in which  EPA  is  promulgating
     regulations  under  RCRA.   It  simply is  impossible  to  make  a
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     fully comprehensive  analysis  of  this  or  any  other  proposed
     rule when  vitally  important pieces of  the  regulatory  puzzle are
     missing.
               Therefore, we  again  request, as  we  have  in  previous
     comments and  testimony,  that  EPA  keep  the  record open  on  these
     and all forthcoming  proposed  RCRA  rules  until  the  entire  pack-
     age of  proposals has been  published.
               Second,  we are concerned  that  these  regulations  im-
     properly revise the  Federal-State  relationships  invisioned by
     RCRA.   These  proposed  regulations  would  allow  a  State  to
     adopt a more  stringent definition  of  "hazardous  waste"  than
     that promulgated by  EPA  under  Section  3001,  and  would  allow
     use of  this definition to  invoke  the  notification  procedures
     of Section 3010.
               Now, of  course,  we  can't  at  this time  be sure that
     EPA's definition under Section 3001 will  be  reasonable  and
 7    appropriate.   But  the  concept  of  two  or more  definitions  of
     "hfl7ardous  waste"  triggering  notification  requirements  flies
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in the face of the language of the statute, which clearly
states that a person is required to give notice only of those
wastes identified or listed by EPA under Section 3001.
          Moreover, the possibility of inconsistent defini-
tions would subject companies operating in different States t
differing standards.  This is a situation the statute seeks t
avoid.
          We continue to believe that the consistency require
ments of RCRA preclude a State from adopting a more expansive
definition of hazardous waste than that promulgated by EPA.
          We believe the purposes of RCRA demand a uniform an
appropriate definition of hazardous waste, and only under a
uniform definition will one State be prevented from, in effec
forcing wastes into other States.
          We also submit that the so-called "limited interim
authorization" procedure established by Sections 250.010 and
250.811 of the proposed regulations is also inconsistent with
the Federal-State division of responsibility established by
UCRA.  There, in fact, is nothing in the statute to indicate
that a State which has no-; received permitting authority un-
der Section 3006 may nonetheless receive notification under
Section 3010.
          We do agree with EPA that the limited interim noti
fication procedure it proposes will create a, quote, "dis-
jointed program," unquote.  And we would add that it will
create a lot of needless administrative confusion as well.
          Moreover, what happens if this hybrid procedure is
someday declared illegal?  Will companies who have filed with
                                                                     42

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a State find themselves in violation of the obligations
created by Section 3010 to file a notification as required
under this subsection?  This is particularly important to the
utility industry, since a frequent condition of our financing
arrangements is that no Federal statute be violated.
          Thus, we urge the Agency to abandon the limited
interim authorization proposal  and to adopt a procedure that
is consistent with the statute; namely, that notification
shall be given to the appropriate Regional Administrator or
to those States which have received authorizations as provided
by Section 3006.
          Our third point:  We disagree with the Agency's
statements that little time should be needed to prepare the
notification response, and that the economic impact of these
regulations will be negligible.
          Because the Section 3001 regulations—which presum-
ably will  define "hazardous waste" — have not yet been pro-
posed, it is simply too early to tell how much time or cost
will be required to provide the preliminary notification re-
quired by Section 3010.
          If EPA seeks to require extensive testing procedures,
it may be very difficult to file an adequate, carefully pre-
pared response in 90 days.  Most of the members of USWAG are
not currently staffed to collect the necessary samples, run
the tests, compile the information, and send the information
to EPA or the States in less than 90 days.
          In many cases, outside firms may have to be hired to
accomplish some or all of these tasks.  This will invnlvp
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considerable expense.
          We submit that "he short time limit established by
Section 3010 mandates  thai: EPA carefully evaluate the adminis-
trative burdens imposed by its procedures under Section 3001.
          Of course, our members can be expected to meet all
the requirements of RCRA.   Our concern, however, is that EPA
may be asking us to do more than the law requires.
          In closing,  I would like to mention briefly two ad-
ditional  points that will  be developed further in our written
submission.   First, we again call  to EPA's attention the crit-
ical  distinction between trunicipal waste and utility waste, a
distinction  to which the Agency has been insensitive in devel-
oping its regulations.
          Second,  we submit that definitions should be provid-
ed or existing definitions clarified for a number of terms
used  in the  proposed notification rules, including  "transport-
er" and "hazardous waste activity."
          USWAG appreciates the opportunity to testify today,
and we will  continue to follow with great interest  EPA's ef-
forts to  implement the Resource Conservation and Recovery Act.
          I  will be happy  to answer any questions,  to the ex-
tent  I can.   I'd like  to stress that I ara speaking  represent-
ing a large  number of  companies today, and that I am only par-
ticularly familiar with what my own company does.
          MR. SANJOUR:  Thank you, Mr. Wiegman.  Do the panel
members have any questions?  Tim?
          MR. FIELDS:   The first comment I have is  regarding
the Docket.   There have been some inquiries about that in the
                                                                    44

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previous hearings, and maybe we ought to clarify it for the



benefit of everybody now.



          The Section 3001 through 3005 regulations, 3001,



3002, 3004, and 3005, those regulations	the only one that



hasn't been proposed thus far is Section 3003.  The others



are scheduled to be proposed hopefully in December, 1978. The



Docket for those five sets of regulations, as will be stated



in the Federal Register, will remain open until 60 days after



the last of those five regulations is proposed in the Federal



Register.



          We have gotten the same comment from a lot of peopl



that they want to have an opportunity to review all five sets



of those regulations at the same time, so they can see how



they fit together so they can comment.  So, that is something



the Agency does plan to do.



          The timetable for Section 3010 regulations closes



officially on September 11, 1978, 60 days after these regula-



tions were proposed.  However, the Agency will continue to



receive comment on Section 3010 regulations.  We don't plan to



promulgate these regulations until sometime in 1979.



          So, comments that we do receive on Sections 3001



through 5 will be considered and utilized to revise the



Section 3010 regulations before we go file it.  So, I want to



make sure we clarify that a little bit.



          MR. WIEGMAN:  Okay.  Good.



          MR. FIELDS:  The second point I wanted to address is



your statement regarding the EPA adopting a different defini-



tion of a  hazardous waste.  We had to wrestle with the same
                                                                     45

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 1   issue internally, and our attorneys in the Washington office
 2   of the General Counsel  staff has advised us	and the same
 3   approach will be taken  under Section 3006	that we cannot
 4   forbid a State that is  utilizing a more stringent definition
 5   from utilizing that for the purposes of notification.  So, we
 6   are just taking the advice of our legal people.
 7             We would appreciate written comment on that aspect,
 8   but attorneys have advised us that more stringent definitions
 9   can be utilized by States that manage the notification program
10   They can either have the choice of the more stringent defini-
11   tion or the Section 3001 definition of a hazardous waste.
12             So, we have merely stated, in the Preamble to these
13   regulations, the position of the Office of the General Counsel
14             MR. WIEGMAN:   We will probably re-emphasize our
15   point in our written submittal.
16             MS. SCHAFFER:  Section 3009 in Subtitle C says that
I7   a State can't promulgate less stringent requirements than  the
18   Federal government.  So, it's in the Act.
19             MR. SANJOUR:   I think it would be most useful if
20   you were to submit not  just the statements but to cite those
21   sections of the Act which you feel support your statement.
22   That might be the most  relevant thing to do	or any other
23   legislative history.
24             MR. FIELDS:  My third comment is regarding your  com-
25   ment on the limited interim authorization process that we  have
26   established.  Again, we would like to get your written com-
27   ment on those too, and  why you think it's illegal or not ap-
28   propriate.
46

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               A  part of our  basis  for  doing  that  is  Section  2002
     (a)  of  the Act,  which  says  that  the  Administrator  can  promul-
     gate such  regulations  as  he deems  appropriate  to administer
     this Act.  Utilizing that in conjunction with  Section  3006,
     which clearly stated that it was  the position  of Congress  tha
     States  be  allowed to manage as much  of  this  hazardous  waste
     program as was  possible,  taking  those two sections  of  the  Act
     together,  plus  3010, we  have been  advised that we  can  go  for-
     ward with  this  limited interim authorization,  given that
 10   authority, because  the timing  is  not appropriate for States  t
 11   be  given 3006 authorization, as  indicated in  Section 3010  (a)
 12   of  the  Act.
               We think  there  is some  legal  basis  for us going  for
     ward with  a  limited interim authorization,  although it's  not
     specifically called for  in  Section 3010.   There  are other  pro
     visions in the  Act  which  we think  give  us the  authority  to
     manage  this  special  program.
 18             MR.  WIEGMAN:   I  think  our  primary  feeling on that
     point is it  might not  be  worth the headaches  it  creates.
 20             MR.  FIELDS:   Well, State governments have indicated
 21   it's worth it to them.
 22             Bill,  you might want to  address this last aspect.
 23             MR.  SANJOUR:   I guess  I  don't  understand  what  the
 24   statement  means.   You  said,  "We  again call  to  EPA's attention
 25   the  critical  distinction  between municipal  waste and utility
     waste,  a distinction to which  the  Agency  has  been  insensitive
27   in  developing  its regulations."  Would you  care  to  elaborate
28   on  that?
47

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          MR.  WIEGMAN:   Our primary point in that area is the
fact that utility wastes and many other industrial  wastes can
be identified  within pretty close bounds.  They are fairly
consistent in  what they include, and you can design facilities
to contain those, possibly with more precision than you can
municipal waste, where  it can include almost anything.
          Our  concern is that we feel the regulations should
recognize that some kinds of waste are pretty closely identi-
fiable and can therefore be controlled in a knowing way.
          MR.  SANJOUR:   I guess you wouldn't know about this
because we haven't published this in any form yet,  but our
current intention is to revise the 3004 standards for several
different	what we call "problem wastes," of which utility
wastes would be one of  them, and these are the standards  for
the treatment, storage  and disposal of hazardous waste.
          For  several different categories of waste, includ-
ing utility wastes, we  are going to write special standards
for those wastes for the very reason that you just  cited.
Since we haven't done the appropriate research to do that in
the first, when we promulgate the 3004 standards we will  have
reduced standards for utility wastes.  That is, we  will only
regulate the administrative aspects of its disposal until we
have done our  research  and developed disposal standards for
those wastes.
          That is the current plan of procedure that has  been
laid down to us.  I guess this point of yours has already
been addressed.
          MR.  WIEGMAN:   It sounds like you are taking that
                                                                    48

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 1  i nto account.
 2            MR. SANJOUR:  Some of the other wastes that are
 3  falling  into  that category, phosphate products, cement,  kiln
 4  dust, zylene	any others?
 5            MR. FIELDS:  Can't think of any.
 6            MR. SANJOUR:  Those are what we call our high  volume
 7  problem  wastes.  This category of wastes, as  a point of  infor-
 8  nation,  are  wastes that were never anticipated at the time
 9  this law was  being written.  These are wastes  that were  never
 10  anticipated  to be hazardous wastes because the efforts of
 11  this office  were concentrated on what you might call manufac-
 12  turing byproduct waste, that are hauled around in vacuum
 13  trucks and the like, and dumped in sites.  Those are the kinds
 14  of wastes we  concentrated on.
 15            What we call thses problem wastes  are additional
 16  wastes which  we never thought of, which fell  out of what we
 17  thought  was  covered under the definition.  Since they fall
 18  under the Act then, they have to be regulated.  The trouble  is
 19  we don't know how to regulate them.  So, the  regulations are
20  going to be  delayed in those few categories  of problem wastes.
21             Are there any questions from the panel?
22             MS. SCHAFFER:  I have one comment.   The comment
23   about defining a hazardous waste under 3001	the way that
24   the Agency is thinking of going now, instead  of requiring
25   testing  for  every single waste, that an extensive list will
26   be included,  under 3001.  So, it will not require the testing,
27   and the  notification will be much easier because you can look
28   down the list and see if your waste is on there, and if  it is,
49

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 l  you can notify.  So, it won't cost as much and take as much
 2  time.
 3            MR. WIEGMAN:  Does that mean the list  is going to
 4  be specific, and if you are not on the list, then you are not
 5  considered?
 6            MS. SCHAFFER:  No.
 1            MR. WIEGMAN:  I didn't think so.
 8            MS. SCHAFFER:  There has never been a  requirement  to
 9  test.  You can always say that your waste is hazardous and get
10  into the system.  However, some of the lists will include
11  processes.  Some of the lists will include specific chemicals.
12  Gut it's going to be pretty extensive.  I think  Bill Sanjour
13  can talk a little bit more precisely on what it's going to
14  say.
15            MR. SANJOUR:  I don't think this is the right meet-
16  ing.  Are there any questions from the audience? Why don't
17  we come on up to the microphone?
18            MR. STAUHAUGH:  My name is Roger Stauhaugh.  I rep-
!9  resent Exxon Company, U.S.A.  Ms. Schaffer said, under
20   Section 3009---
21             MR. SANJOUR:  Excuse me.  We are talking about our
22   questions addressed to this gentleman.
23             MR. STAUHAUGH:  Okay.  I wanted to comment on a
24   statement she made regarding one of his questions.  Is that
25   okay?
26             MR. SANJOUR:  We are going to have a general
27   question session after all the speakers are through.  Let's
28   just limit these questions now to questions for  the speakers
50

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themselves .
          MR. STAUHAUGH:  Okay.
          MR. SANJOUR:  Yes, sir?  I don't think we can hear
you from back there.  Why don't you come up here?
          MR. SCHWARTZ:  I have a very simple question.  Carl
Schwartz, California State Health.  I would like to know what
the definition of "utility wastes" is.  My question is:  What
would be considered utility wastes?  I am really not familiar
with the term.
          MR. SANJOUR:  I think we are talking about, for the
most part, fly ash and bottom ash, and flue gas, desulphuri-
zation products, rubber sludge.  Is that right?
          MR. WIEGMAN:  Those would probably be the largest
volume wastes involved.
          MR. SANJOUR:  We are talking about coal burning
utilities, is what we are talking about.  I guess we tend to
get into our own jargon and tend to forget there are one or
two people who aren't in our group.
          If there are no other questions, we will go on to
the next speaker.  Thank you, sir.
          Jim Greco of Browning-Ferris Industries.
          MR. GRECO:  My name is Jim Greco.  I am an employee
of Browning-Ferris Industries, and my responsibilities are to
stay abreast, involved and aware of the Federal and State leg-
islation and regulations.  Accompanying me' is Gus Berry, also
an employee  of Browning-Ferris Industries, who is the com-
pany's environmental counsel.
          Though I will make reference to it in my presenta-
                                                                    51

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 1  tion,  perhaps  it's  informative  for  the audience  to  know  that
 2  Browning-Ferris  Industries  is a  company which  is  involved  in
 3  the  handling of  hazardous wastes  and other wastes,  from  col-
 4  lection  through  disposal.
 5            We have carefully reviewed the  proposed procedures
 6  for  preliminary  notification of  hazardous waste  activities,
 7  and  recognize  that  these proposed rules,  when  finalized, and
 8  with  the promulgation of the 3001 criteria for identification
 9  and  listing of hazardous wastes,  will commence the  cradle-to-
10  grave  control  concept for hazardous wastes.
11            Though the Federal regulatory program  for  abating
12  and  controling the  pollution potential of mismanaged  wastes
13  has  not  yet been implemented, we  have observed much  activity
14  at the State level  with  the passage of hazardous  waste manage-
15  ment  laws, the promulgatior of  regulations,  and  the  upgrading
16  of permit programs  for neeced treatment,  storage  and  disposal
17  facilities.
18            Additionally,  we  and  others have witnessed  an  in-
19  creased  public concern and  awareness regarding the  disposal
20   of chemical wastes.  As  a result, the Resource Conservation
21   and  Recovery Act of 1976	or,  as many call  it,  RCRA	and the
22   Agency's conscientious efforts  to implement  its  mandates loom
23   more  and more  important  day by  day.
24             In this regard the general public  needs to  be  more
25   aware  that hazardous wastes can  be  managed safely,  that
26   facilities for their treatment  and  disposal  are  needed,  and
27   that  the governmental framework  for assuring environmentally
28   protective practices has been established.
52

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          Failure to acknowledge these facts will likely en-
courage greater public misunderstanding, alarm, and a lack of
confidence, particularly when preliminary notification proced-
ures are instituted.
          Since the enactment of RCRA, the Agency has con-
ducted numerous meetings for soliciting widespread input and
commentary from the general public and every conceivable
affected entity.  Though lengthy and resource demanding, the
rule making process undertaken by the Agency has been commend-
able with the efforts for enhancing public participation being
exemplary.
          An expanded public education and understanding ef-
fort, however, is needed to compliment public participation in
development, revision, implementation and enforcement of any
regulation, guideline, information, et cetera.
          Browning-Ferris Industries is a publicly held com-
pany engaged in providing solid and liquid waste collection,
processing, treatment and disposal  services to business,
government  and the public.   Using the terminology of RCRA, we
would be considered a transporter of hazardous waste as well
as an operator of facilities for treatment, storage and dis-
posal of hazardous wastes.
          Briefly, our experience and capabilities derive
from the operation of approximately a dozen facilities which
handle industrial  liquids,  slurries, and sludges, spent
pickle liquors and other waste acids, neutralized acidic
sludges, organic and inorganic chemicals, and other wastes
which might be determined to be hazardous once the 3001
                                                                     53

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 1  criteria are finalized,
 2            These wastes are managed by BFI in special sanitary
 3  landfills, secure landfills, chemical fixation facilities,
 4  neutralization plants or disposal wells located throughout the
 5  country.  Another 60 of ou" waste disposal sites, typically
 6  for landfilling municipal, commercial and industrial solid
 7  wastes, may conceivably be subject to the preliminary notifi-
 8  cation requirements.
 9            Pursuant to our review of the subject proposed rules
10  two particular areas concern us, one being the limited interiir
11  authorization considerations presented in Section 250.810, and
12  secondly, the information required in the notification and the
13  confidentiality aspects of that information identified in
14  Section 250.823.
15            Regarding the former, limited interim authorization,
16  we would concur with EPA's desire to allow as many States as
17  possible to participate in the preliminary notification pro-
18  gram.  However, we question whether the program, as currently
19  delineated in Section 250.810, complies with Section 3006 of
20   RCRA, unless the program calls, at a minimum, for the State
21   to show two things:
22            That its legislature had passed enabling legislatior
23  and that an active hazardous waste control program had been
24   implemented or commenced pursuant to that legislation by
25   July 21st of this year.  As we understand Section 3006 (c) of
26   RCRA, that date, July 21st, was determined as the date 90 day:
27   after the date required for promulgation of regulations under
28   Sections 3002, 3003, 3004 and 3005, which would be
54

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21

22


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April 21, 1978 or thereabouts.

          Secondly, at a minimum, its hazardous waste program

must have a preliminary notification program substantially

equivalent to the EPA's program contained in 40 CFR Part 250

Subpart G, as it is finally promulgated.

          Our reasons at this time for why we feel that

Section 250.810 is deficient because, one, the States are not

required to show that they had a program under State law in

effect on or about July 21, 1978, and secondly, the States a>-t

not required to show that their preliminary notification pro-

gram is substantially equivalent to the EPA's program.   Par-

ticularly, the States are not required to show that they have

programs to protect proprietary information which is sub-

stantially equivalent to the EPA's program.

          Substantial equivalency, with respect to the pro-

tection of proprietary information, is important since some

States may not have a statutory framework for handling  and,

in certain instances, protecting one from public disclosure

proprietary information, whereas other States may.  Owners or

operators of hazardous waste facilities may possibly incur *

competitive disadvantage,  depending upon whether or not cer-

tain information in some States is protected and in other

States not protected.
                                                              I
          Relative to our second primary concern	that is,   j

confidentiality claims as  addressed in Section 250.823  (b)(10)[

and referenced in the supplementary information part of the

Federal  Regi ster notice entitled "Confidentiality Provisions"
55
    —we would concur with the first option identified, which is

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 1  currently  presented  in  the  proposed rules.
 2             If  the  second option were incorporated	that  is,
 3  requiring  submission of substantiation at the  time of  initial
 4  notification	the requirements would be very  demanding  on
 5  both  the affected entity and the EPA.  In our  estimation, in
 6  some  cases we  likely could  not possibly provide the  kind of
 7  information to substantiate any confidentiality claims and
 8  still meet the 90 day deadline.
 9             Additionally, Ef'A's waiting until a  request  for the
10  information has been filed  to support the substantiation of
11  our proprietary claim doe;,  not create a burden on the  EPA
12  Regional Offices  any greater than  if the information  is  solic-
1}  ited  in the first instance, when the notice is filed.  Also,
14  the overall cost  impact, paperwork handling efficiency,  and
15  best  utilization  of  personnel resources would  probably best
16  benefit the public if option 1 were retained.
17             Certain feature:,  of the  proposed rules  are  note-
is  worthy, which  we  also concur with, and they namely are:
19             One, that  authorized States will be  encouraged to
20  operate and manage the  notification process in the same  or  an
21   equivalent manner to that employed by EPA in order to  achieve
22  as much national  unifromity as possible;
23             Two, Section  250.810 (c), which cites that  under
24   limited interim authorization States shall not grant  exemp-
25   tions regarding who  must file notifications, when notificatioi
26   must  be filed, or what  information this notification  must con-
27   tain.
28              We  also concur with Section 250.820  (a), Section
56

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 10
 11
 12
 13
 14
 15
 16
 17
 18
 19
 20
 21
 22
 23
 24
 25
26
27
28
250.820  (b)(l)(ii), Section 250.820  (b)(6).  And  I would be
happy to reference these to the proposed rules, but they woul
be a little bit more reading.  We can go back to  it if anyone
desi res.
          And we also concur with Section 250.823 (b)(ll),
which states that an estimate of the annual amount of hazard-
ous waste handled, based on the period from January 1, 1977 t
December 31, 1977, be an optional requirement.
          Based on the increase and more uniform  enforcement
of hazardous waste treatment, storage and disposal regulation
and anticipated standards applicable to generators and trans-
porters of hazardous wastes, Browning-Ferris has  undertaken a
more rapid expansion of its liquid and hazardous  waste manage
ment waste service capability.
          We view the Resource Conservation and Recovery Act
of 1976 as the most significant Federal legislation to date
affecting the waste systems industry.  Hopefully, as the man-
dates of this legislation are implemented, effective, practica
and economically wise practices for insuring the  protection
of the public and the environment will be enhanced.
          We are pleased to participate in this hearing, and
will  likely submit additional  comments for the official  rule
making record prior to September llth, and are willing to
entertain any kind of questions the audience or the panel
might have.
          MR. SANJOUR:  Thank you, Jim.  Any questions from
the panel?
               MR.  FIELDS:   Jim,  I  guess  in  your  comments  you  were
                                                                     57

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    saying that you think that limited interim authorization
    should be based upon Section 3006  (c) of the Act?
              MR. GRECO:  That is our  understanding.  What we are
    emphasizing is, as we understand 3006 (c) of the Act, States
    should have in effect or passed the legislation, prior to
    July 21st of this year, a hazardous waste management control
    program.  He think that that should be part of  the limited
    interim authorization application  procedures the State sup-
    plies to the EPA.
10            MR. FIELDS:  So, you think these additional require-
11  ments should be added?
12            MR. GRECO:  Yes.
13            MR. SANJOUR:  No other questions from the panel?
14  A question from the audience	let me try to read it.
15            "In reference to the last speaker"	was this a
16  question of the last speaker or a  question of Mr. Greco?
17            UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER:  A question to anyone
18  on the panel.
19            MR. SANJOUR:  Let's save those questions till all
20  the speakers have had their turn.  Well, okay,  I will read  it
21            "In reference to the last speaker's concerns about
22  confidentiality protection if reporting  is to States instead
23  of to EPA, could you comment on confidentiality provisions,
24  remarks about States' trade secret acts, or public"—why
25  don't you come up and ask this question?
26            UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER:  In reference to  the
27  last speaker's concerns about confidentiality protection  if
28  reporting is to States instead of  to EPA, could you comment
58

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  9
 10
 11
 12
 13
 14
 15
 16
 17
 18
 19
 20
 21
 22
 23
 24
 25
 26
 27
28
on — and then, quoting from the Federal Regi ster, confidenti-
ality provisions, page 29910, first paragraph, remarks about,
quote, "States' trade secret acts or public records acts"and
the protection afforded therein —because there are remarks
in there that seem to go for protection, but I frankly wasn't
comfortable with it, and I gather these gentlemen aren't com-
fortable with it, but I gather you are comfortable with it,
and I would like to be comfortable with it.
          MR. SANJOUR:  What is your discomfort?
          UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I am not familiar
with the States' trade secrets acts, and I am concerned that
we wouldn't be protected by confidentiality if we report to
the States in the same way as if we reported to the EPA.
          MR. SANJOUR:  Again, if anyone of the panel  knows
better,  correct me if I am wrong.  I am, I think, talking in
an area  where I am not terribly familiar personally.  But I
believe  that if a State has authorization, then it is  the
State laws that will have to prevail,  because the Federal law
specifically says that the State program is in lieu of the
Federal  program.
          UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Okay.
          MR. SANJOUR:  The Federal  law does not require the
States to have the same kind of laws or the same kind  of pro-
gram.   So, therefore, if the State is  implementing it, then
the State law would prevail, I think.   Therefore, whatever
provision the State law would have for confidentiality would
apply, not the Federal laws.  Is that  correct,  Amy?
          MS. SCHAFFER:   I think Anne  Allen, who is an
                                                                     59

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 1   attorney for the Solid Waste Office, was going to do some re-
 2   search on that and put her research into the Docket, because
 3   I don't think it's been clearly delineated,  who has authority
 4   under what.
 5             So, when you get your Docket,  eventually	or you
 6   could probably write in anc find out if  something like that
 7   has been put into the Docket.
 8             MR. FIELDS:  I  had a question  for  you.   Are you say-
 9   ing that you would want to make it a requirement  that States
10   have a privacy act or some such act in order to handle a
11   notification program?
12             MR. GRECO:  What we  are saying is  when  a State
13   wishes to seek interim limited authorization that it should
14   meet the test of substantial equivalency.   I think there are
15   three requirements now in the  proposed rules.   We are adding
16   two more, and the second  pertains to confidentiality.
17             What we feel is, whether it requires a  State act or
18   not, what the State does  as far as to handle confidentiality
19   claims should be consistent with the Federal program, and
20   hopefully uniform with other States.
21             MR. SANGOUR:  So, you are saying that the concept of
22   equivalency should include confidentiality?
23             MR. GRECO:  Yes.
24             MR. SANOOUR:  I see.  It's a whole new concept.  I
25   take it you are saying the same thing?
26             UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER:   Yes.   I  think it
27   should afford the same protection, whichever right you choose.
28             MR. SANJOUR:  In nv own mind.  T  have alwavs viewed
60

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     equivalency  of  protection  from  hazardous waste,  not  protection
     of  trade  secrets.   It's  a  new concept.   It will  be taken  into
     account.
               MR.  FIELDS:  That  is  a  good  comment.   Like Amy  said
     our  lawyers  are  looking  into  it.
               One  comment  is  the  Regional  Administrators and  their
     staffs  are  going  to  be reviewing  the notification program ap-
     plications  from  the  various  State  entities.   They will make
     the  ultimate decision  regarding whether  a State  is given  the
 10   authority to administer  a  program.   If a Regional Administra-
 11   tor  does  not want  to give  them  a  program because he  doesn't
 12   think  the State  warrants  it,  he may  not  give  them the  program
 13   We  wanted to allow  some  flexibility  in that area.
 14             Right  now  we don't  think  it  should  be  a mandatory
 15   requirement  for  a  State  to handle  a  notification program.
 16   But  please  make  that comment  and  we  will consider it.
 17             MR.  SANJOUR:   Any  other  questions of Mr. Greco?
 18   Thank  you,  Jim.
 19             The  next  speaker on my  schedule is  Rebecca Beemer
 20   of  Dow  Chemical.
 21             MS.  BEEMER:  Mr. Sanjour  and members of the  panel,
 22   I am Beckee  Beemer,  Environmental  Specialist  for the Western
 23   Division  of  Dow  Chemical  Company,  U.S.A.
 24             These  comments  will reflect  our concerns and
 25   corporate philosophy in  the  proper  management of hazardous
 26   and  solid wastes  to  provide  adequate protection  of human
27   health  and  the  environment.   They  summarize our  concerns  for
28   Section 3010 of  RCRA,  as  proposed,  which pertain to, one, the
61

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 l   comment closure date.   Our most immediate concern is the pre-
 2   mature proposal of these regulations  ahead of other intimately
 3   related Sections,  (3001, 3004 and  3005).
 4             It was our understanding that the regulations for
 5   the Agency planned to  propose the  Sections individually, and
 6   hold open a collective comnent period at  least until 60 days
 7   after the last regulation had been formally proposed.
 8             It was further understood that  the anticipated draft
 9   Environmental  Impact Statement covering all of Subtitle C
10   would also be  available for comment prior to closure of any
11   comment period.   We understand this  is so, and we thank you
12   very much.
13             Two, definition of hazardous waste:  It was  stated
14   within the supplemental information of the proposed rules that
15   quote, "It is  important to note the definition of solid waste"
16   and "hazardous wastes, which are a subset of all  solid wastes.
17             It is obvious to us that the definition of what
18   constitutes a  hazardous waste under Section 3001  and what con-
19   stitutes a permitted hazardous waste  management facility under
20   Sections 3004  and  3005 are crucial to the interpretation of
21   and comment upon preliminary notification under Section 3010.
22             It is impossible to determine at present what is a
23   hazardous waste.  We appreciate that  the  Agency will defer
24   comment review of  preliminary notification until  after all
25   Sections have  been proposed.
26             Three, interpretation of "place of operation",
27   "terminal", and "onsite" definitions:  The definitions of
28   "place of operation" and "terminal" appear to
62

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     warehouses and commercial  establishments.   The definition of
     "onsite" should distinguish that the property can either be
     owned or leased.  These definitions should be clarified in
     the final  prenotification  regulation.
               Four, interpretation of "storage":   We contend that
     the interpretation of "storage" requiring  notification and
     permitting if for more than 90 days, as contained in the
     supplemental  information,  is an unreasonably  short period and
     should be  extended to about one year.
 10             Five, information required:   For identification
 11   numbers we would like to propose the use of a consistent num-
 12   ber among  all air, water,  waste water  and  solid waste regula-
 13   tions.  The census file number, which  an eleven digit number,
 14   for example,  is already used extensively for  enumeration of
 15   products by manufacturing  location.
 16             About transport, we understand transport requires
 17   manifesting,  but we would  like to emphasize that we under-
 18   stand onsite  transport is  specifically excluded.
 19             Types and descriptions of hazardous waste:  The re-
 20   quirement  that, quote, "All wastes  which are  ignitable,
 21   reactive,  infectious, radioactive or corrosive must be des-
 22   cribed as  such," unquote,  appears to imply testing for all
 23   these criteria.  This would also preclude  assumed designation
 24   of a  waste as hazardous without test.   We  recommend that all
 25   criteria have provisions for checking  any  of  five categories:
 26   A, yes by  test; B, no by test; C, yes  by list; D, assumed
 27   hazardous; or E, undetermined hazard.   Otherwise there is no
28   basis for  distinction between actual testing  and assumed
63

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 1   hazard.
 2             Six, the reporting impact:   We commend the Agency
 3   for simplifying notification and making some provisions for
 4   reelassifying the waste as  nonhazardous at some future date.
 5   We strongly  disagree,  however,  with the Agency's contention
 6   that,  quote, "Most of  the requested information will be on
 7   hand,"  and "Little time should  be needed to prepare the noti-
 8   fication response,"  unquote.  This will be true only if the
 9   Agency  does  not choose to arbitrarily overclassify all in-
10   dustrial wastes as supposedly hazardous.
11             The Agency further states that the greatest burden
12   would  come in those  instances where some analysis of waste
13   was required.  It is our contention that unless all solid
14   wastes  are assumed to  be hazardous, such testing would be re-
15   quired  for all other wastes contested to be nonhazardous by
16   their  generators, but  declared  hazardous by the Agency by
17   either  criteria or by  listing.
18             There is substantial  economic impact directly attrib
19   utable  to such wholesale testing.
20             it would be  virtually impossible for all solid
21   wastes  in the United States to  be tested,  within the 90 day
22   notification period, for all criteria, even exclusive of
23   toxicity.
24             We recommend that provision be made to declare within
25   90 days  any  or all criteria as  undetermined, subject to future
26   testing.  This would serve the  intent of RCRA in identifying
27   potentially  hazardous  wastes, and allow generators more ade-
28   quate  time for testing.
64

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              We  further  recommend  that  provision  be  made  to  con-



     test  the designation  of  any waste  specifically  listed  by  name



     or  by process under Section 3001 regulations,  and declare  it



     to  be nonhazardous as  substantiated  by actual  testing  results



     from  the generator.



              Further, there  should  be ample  opportunity for  pub-



     lic  input to  revision  of  the  3001  listing  to remove misiden-



     tified wastes as well  as  hazardous wastes.



 9            Confidentiality:  The  Agency has  also requested



 10   comment on confidentiality.   We  agree with  the  first option



 11   as  proposed,  that affected parties be allowed  to  make  confi-



 12   dentiality claims without providing  substantiation at  the



 13   time  of initial notification.   We  do not  consider it a burden



 14   for  EPA to request substantiation  at some  future  date, if



 15   necessary.



 16            The first option would conserve  EPA  resources.



 17   The  second option would  require  every claim be  investigated.



 18   We  do not believe that a  large  number of  specific requests



 19   for  such detailed technical information will be forthcoming.



 20            We  seriously question  whether adequate  protection of



 21   confidential  information  can  be  assured.   Information  pertain-



 22   ing  to types  of wastes,  descriptions and  volumes  can be in-



 23   valuable in a competitive market.  All States  seeking  primary



 24   responsibility should  be  required  to provide protection at



 25   least equivalent to the  EPA confidentiality requirement.



26            in  summary,  we  feel the  Agency  has made progress in



27   developing the notification requirements.  We  request  consid-



28   eration of our comments,  and  appreciate that the  comment
65

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  1   period  has  been  extended  until  all  hazardous  waste  regula-
  2   tions are  proposed.   Thank you.
  3             MR.  SANJOUR:  Ms..  Beemer, will you  entertain  ques-
  4   tions?
  5             MS.  BEEMER:   Certainly,  if  I  can  answer them.
  6             MR.  SANJOUR:  I have  got  one  for  you.  You  said,
  7   "We  recommend  that  provision  be  made  to  declare within  90 days
  8   any  or  all  criteria  as  undetermined."   If EPA  were  to allow
  9   all  criteria to  be  designated as  "undetermined" in  the  notifi-
 10   cation  scheme,  is  it part of  your  recommendation that any
 11   waste so  identified  would still  be  treated  as  a hazardous
 12   waste?
 13             MS.  BEEMER:   Yes„  sir.
 14             MR.  SANJOUR:  How  would  you square  that with  the
 15   provision  in the Act which requires	let's see if  I  can find
 16   the  specific language.
 17             MS.  BEEMER:   Whet  that would  just do, now,  we
 18   wouldn't  have  to perform  all  the  tests  within  the 90  day
 19   period, and that would  give  us  time to  make those tests  in
 20   adequate  and accurate testing procedures.
 21             MR.  SANJOUR:  How  would  that  differ, since  the
 22   waste would be  treated  as a  hazardous waste in any  event? How
 23   would that  differ  if you  ;ust assumed that  it  was hazardous
 24   and  then  checked it  out?
25             MS.  BEEMER:   Because  we  haven't determined  for cer-
26   tain whether it's  toxic,  corrosive, et  cetera.  We  would like
27   to make sure that  what  we put on  the  form would be  the  actual
28   material.
66

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  1             MR.  SANJOUR:   You  could  always  submit a  correction.
  2             UNIDENTIFIED  AUDIENCE MEMBER:   You  certify under
  3   oath  that  the  information  is  correct.
  4             MR.  SANJOUR:   To the best of your  knowledge.
  5             MS.  BEEMER:   But what this  does  is  just  make  it mor
  6   clear.
  7             MR.  SANJOUR:   All  right.   Are  there any  other ques-
  8   tions  from the panel?   Any questions  from  the audience  of the
  9   speaker?
 10             Thank you  very much.
 11             Our  next listed  speaker  is  Mr.  or  Ms. H.  M.
 12   Schneider  of  the Romic  Chemical Corporation.
 13             MR.  SCHNEIDER:   Mr.  Sanjour, my  specific  address is
 14   on  Section 3004, and since it  is not  subject  to discussion,  I
 15   can  really not debate  it,  unless you  let  me.
 16             MR.  SANJOUR:   My intention  here  is  to first  go
 17   through  all  the people  who wish to  address  the 3010 regula-
 18   tions.
 19             MR.  SCHNEIDER:   All  right.
 20             MR.  SANJOUR:   And  if there  is  any  time remaining,
 21   then  to  throw  the discussion  to anything  else relating  to any
 22   part  of  Subtitle C,   So,  why  don't  you just  stick  around
 23   awhile  and we  will  get  around  to it.
 24             MR.  SCHNEIDER:   Okay. Sounds  good.
 25             MR.  SANJOUR:   Our  next listed  speaker is  H.
26   LaVerne  Rosse  of the Nevada  Division  of  Environmental  Pro-
 27   tection.
28             MR.  ROSSE:  My  comments  have already been covered.
67

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 l   I would rather not repeat them again, and go on to someone
 2   else.
 3             MR. SANJOUR:  You can, if you would like, give a
 4   written statement, just submit it for the record.
 5             MR. ROSSE:   I will do that.
 6             MR. SANJOUR:  Thank you.
 1             I have exhausted the list of persons who have asked
 8   to speak.   I will  now open it to anyone else who cares to
 9   speak on the subject  of Section 3010.  Anyone?
10             Then, I  will open the floor to anyone who wishes to
11   ask any questions  of  the panel or a"»y questions of any previ-
12   ous speakers on the subject of Section 3010.
o             UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Do you want these
14   written?
15             MR. SANJOUR:  No, you can come up and give them, if
16   you prefer to.
17             MR. MILLET:  My name is Ray Millet, with Shell Oil
l8   Company, and I am asking this primarily on behalf of the
!9   American Petroleum Institute.
20             Under the notification requirements, we'd like to
21   find out who is the responsible party in filing the notifica-
22   tion requirement in the case of, for example, service stations
23   where you have individual service stations who generate waste,
24   which may not be excluded, because they are a small generator,
25   when the person who is generating the waste may be a lessee
26   under contract with the lessor; and furthermore, the land may
27   not be owned by either par~y.  Who is the one that has to
28   notify?
68

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 1            MR. SANJOUR:   I am  reading  the  law  now  to  see  if  I
 2  can answer  it.
 3            MR. FIELDS:   I have  a  canned  response to your  ques-
 4  tion, which we are working on  at  headquarters.  Anyway,  this
 5  is a comment  from our division management.
 6            Retail establishments  are currently  being  evaluated
 7  for special relief from  reporting  requirements, and  we are  de-
 8  veloping streamlined notification  procedures  for, at  least,
 9  service stations.
10            A voluntary arrangement  is  being worked out.   We  are
11  working on  this, anyway	to allow the  haulers, for  example,
12  those associated with waste oil  re-refiners,  to assume the
13  obligations of the waste oil generator  for the purposes  of
14  notification.  So, I don't know  how it's  going to work,  but we
15  are working on a procedure now whereby  we can  allow  the  hauler
16  either via  maybe the major oil companies  or retail establish-
17  ments or retail associations,  to  serve  as the  generator  who
18  will collectively notify all the  individual service  stations.
19            MR. WILLET:   Okay.   Much similar to  the provision
20  that has been proposed  in the  State of  Minnesota, where  the
21   waste oil hauler, who represents  either a disposal firm  or  a
22  re-refiner, goes around  and collects  it from multiple service
23   stations?
24             MR. FIELDS:   Right.
25             MR. WILLET:   I have  a  second  part to this  question,
26   very similar.  With regards to the 77,000 number, which  you
27   apparently  say is in error, how  is one  to identify each  indi-
28   vidual operating field  from an exploration and production
69

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10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
facility, each platform?  Does each individual  platform need
a specific notification, because it may have waste from that
platform which may meet the criteria?   These may be onsite
facilities, individual  field locations, throughout the United
States.   What about those?
          MR. FIELDS:   That's another  problem we are looking
at.   As  you know, through API, you were gracious enough that
we visited some facilities in Wyoming.   I  guess there are
about 40,000 of these  operations in Wyoming, or something like
that.  Tens of thousands of these individual operations, and
the same question came up there.  Three of our people spent a
week visiting these operations.
          It is a problem, and I assure you we are looking at
it, as to how we are going to try to arrange some special
notification procedures for these people.   I don't know how
it's going to finally  come out, but that is something we are
aware of and are looking into.
          MR. SANJOUR:   I Em not sure  that EPA is even rele-
vant to  this discussion, because it's  the  law.   The law
doesn't  address EPA.  The law addresses those who generate,
treat, store or transport hazardous waste, and requires them
to notify, right?
          Now, EPA may write its interpretation of what the
law means.  See, EPA is not authorized to  write regulations.
EPA may  write an interpretation, but the courts will finally
decide.   I am not sure how much attention  they will even pay
to EPA.
              MR.  WILLET:   My concern is  not whether or not EPA
                                                                    70

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   is making a special rule or not.  My concern is if each indi-
   vidual facility must file a notification, then this is a sub-
   stantial burden on our industry which impacts your economic
   impact analysis.   It goes beyond just the sheer notification,
   and this is all I  am trying to bring across.  We recognize we
°  have some problems.  We just want to get the system to recog-
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   nize what some of these shortcomings are as it's presently
   proposed .
             Is there any way we can streamline that notification''
             MR. SANJOUR:  Our current regulations have provis-
   ions for national firms, for example, sending in one notifica-
   tion, as long as they itemize and list every facility covered
   by that notification.
             So, if you have a lot of different wells in a field
   you can send in one notification and just itemize all the
   we!1s , perhaps .
             MR. FIELDS:  We would appreciate any comments you
   might have on how we do this, if you can submit them.
             MR. WILLET:  We will  be submitting some written
   comments for the record.  But I thought these were sufficient-
   ly large numbers involved that it might be important.  Thank
   you.
             MR. SANJOUR:  Thank you.  Are there any more
   specific comments on 3010?  Yes, I saw the hand.  When I have
   run out of comments for 3010, what I propose to do is take a
   break for about 15 minutes and then come back and have just
   kind of a free-for-all on anything on Subtitle C that anyone
   wants to talk about or ask questions about or anything.
                                                                     71

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              So, with  that, anymore questions  on  3010  specif-
     ically?   Yes, sir?
              MR. ROSSE:   I am  LaVerne  Rosse, with  the  State  of
     Nevada .
              Is  there  any  problem  if we add  to  the  notification
     forms  some  additional  information that we feel  is  important
     to  us?
              MR. SANJ0UR:  I believe — correct  me  if  I  am wrong,
     Tim — our thinking  is  that  if a State  implements the  notifica-
 10   tion system,  they may  indeed add anything to the form that
 11   they want.   Is that right?
 12            MR. FIELDS:   There is no  problem  with  that.
 13            MR. ROSSE:   If we have legislative authority to add.
 14            MR. SANJOUR:  Right.  That is your problem.  You
 15   can't  take  any questions off.
 16            MR. FIELDS:   Can't go the other way.
 17            MR. SANJOUR:  Yes, sir?
 18            MR. ATHELICK:  I  am Glen  Athelick  with Hewlett-
 19   Packard  Company.  My  question is I  understood  in reading  the
 20   regulation  3010 that  you are excluding household kinds of
 21   chemicals from the  Act.  In the electronics  business  we have
 22   a  lot  of  labs that  include  lots and lots  of  chemicals in
 2}   their  development work, where they  have small  quantities.
 24            It  seems  to  me v*e have got kind of a  double law
25   here.  Unless there is  going to be  minimum  quantities speci-
26   fied in  3001—we are  talking about things  like, you  know,
27   household ammonia and  Drano and alcohol,  and that  kind of
28   thina.   Are those going to  be essentially storage  facilities,
72

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 1   all of our labs, under your definitions of holding of chemi-     73
 2   cals?
 3             MR. SANJOUR:  There are two things we are talking
 4   about here.  First of all, households are exempt, period.
 5   Again, correct me if I am wrong.
 6             MS. SCHAFFER:  That's right.
 7             MR. SANJOUR:  And the second thing is that genera-
 8   tors, persons who generate below a certain quantity, which is
 9   a hundred kilograms a month, generates and disposes of a
10   hundred kilograms a month, are exempt from the generator re-
11   quirements.
12             Now, does that exempt a generator from the notifi-
13   cation requirements?
14             MR. FIELDS:  From notification, also.
15             MR. SANJOUR:  Does that answer your question?
16             MR. ATHELICK:  Sounds like it.  Also from this
17   hoi di ng, storage?
18             MR.SNYDER:  The chemicals would first have to be
19   disposed of and become a waste, if you were using them as
20   chemicals.
21             MR. SANJOUR:  Well, that is not the question.
22             MR. ATHELICK:  That is, though.  This Act doesn't
23   take effect until they are a waste?
24             MR. FIELDS:  That's right.  It has to be a solid
25   waste.
26             MR. SANJOUR:  No, no.  Are you talking about chemi-
27   cals that you are holding for disposal or for use?
28             MR. ATHELICK:  For use.

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          MR.  SANJOUR:  We'll, that's not a waste.
          MR.  ATHELICK:  Not a waste?
          MR.  SANJOUR:  Yes.
          MR.  FIELDS:  Our  regulations don't come into being
until  it's a waste, that's  true.
          MR.  ATHELICK:  The next question is on the treatment
or disposal  onsite, where I have  that as part of a process.
For example, cyanide treatment,  where, for example,  I  am
electroplating and I have cyanide waste.  As soon as it comes
out of the tank and it's out of  the drain, it's cyanide waste.
Is that now part of my process,  and I don't have to  report
that as a treatment or disposal  facility?
waste?
                                                                    74
          MS.  SCHAFFER:   Do you do anything to the cyanide

          MR.  ATHELICK:   Yes,  we completely decompose it.
          MS.  SCHAFFER:   If it's part of the train of opera-
tion,  then we  probably will not consider it a waste, probably.
          MR.  ATHELICK:   Okay.
          MR.  SANJOUR:  If you  never get into trouble, then we
certainly wouldn't.   If  you get into trouble, then it probably
comes  in.
          MR.  ATHELICK:   Okay.
          MR.  SANJOUR:  Any more questions on 3010 specifical-
ly?
          As I  said, we  will take a break and then reconvene
and throw the  floor  open to any questions regarding Subtitle C.
Fifteen minutes.   And I  have been told to announce there is a
coffee machine  here.

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 2            MR. SANJOUR:  The floor is now open to any questions
    or comments or discussion on any items in Subtitle C of RCRA
    that anybody cares to discuss.   Anybody?
              MR. SCHNEIDER:  Dear members of the board, ladies
    and gentlemen, I am Michael Schneider.  I am the principal
    owner of Romic Chemical  Corporation in Palo Alto, California.
    I would like to make a presentation on 3004, financial  re-
    spons i bi 1 i ti es .
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              (Bri ef recess.
              I  would like to give you a little background.   Romi
    Chemical Corporation is a reclaimer of industrial solvents an
    chemicals used in the greater San Francisco Bay Area, and has
    been doing this work since 1953.  We are one of three major
    reclaimers on the West Coast.  One of them is Oil & Solvent
    Process Company in Azusa, California.  We are in the Bay Area
    and handling the greater San Francisco Bay Area. Chempro in
17   Seattle, Washington is probably the third one here on the
    West Coast.   They handle part of Oregon and almost everything
    up in Washington.
              We reclaim the solvents and liquid organic chemicals
    by either simple or fractional  distillation, to the required
    degree of purity so that they can be used over again by the
    same companies that originated  them.
              We also purchase contaminated chemicals, reclaim
    them and resell  them to other users.
              We serve the following industries:   Paint and
    lacquer industry, recording tape, chemical  manufacturers,
    chemical wholesalers, chemical  retailers,  Department of
                                                                     75

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 1  Defense, ink, electronic, trucking-shipping , auto manufactur-
 2  ers,  railroad, adhesives, steel, pharmaceutical, tire manu-
 3  facturers and airlines.
 4            By definition, our company is a generator, trans-
 5  porter, and storage and treatment facility for hazardous
 6  wastes.  We believe that our activity as processors of indus-
 7  trial wastes help greatly in the conservation of resources and
 8  energy, and in the decrease of the hazardous wastes that have
 9  to be scheduled for disposal.  As a matter of fact, many haz-
10  ardous wastes are rendered harmless through processing.
11            We agree that proper licensing is essential to in-
12  sure maximum compliance with the requirements set forth in
!3  the Resource Conservation and Recovery Act, the Toxic Sub-
14  stances Control Act, and other applicable regulations designed
15  to improve the quality of the air we breathe, the water we
16  drink and the food we eat.
17            Although we accspt the provisions of Public Law
18  94-580 in principle, we fael that a very serious blow will be
19  dealt to the recycling industries if the current tentative
20  interpretation of financial responsibility becomes effective
21   in its present form.
22             The following i'5 a quotation of the section on fi-
23   nancial responsibilities, as contained in the Environmental
24   Protection Agency Preamble to draft proposed standards for
25   owners and operators of hazardous waste treatment, storage
26   and disposal facilities, dated April 21, 1973.
27             The Section 3004 standards include requirements for
28   financial responsibility under 250.46.  As now proposed, the  j
76

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 1   minimum level of financial responsibility is five million
 2   dollars for claims arising out of injury to persons or proper-
 3   ty from the release of hazardous wastes to the environment.
 4   This requirement applies to all facilities.
 5             In addition to the regulation presented in these
 6   proposed rules, the following options were also considered:
 7             Each owner or operator will maintain at least one
 8   million dollars of financial responsibility during the opera-
 9   tion of the site; a site-specific trust fund will be built up
10   during the operation of the site to provide protection to  the
11   public for damages resulting from the escape of hazardous
12   waste to the environment after site closure;
13             Each owner or operator of a hazardous waste treat-
14   ment, storage or disposal facility shall have and maintain
15   financial responsibility in the minimum amount of ten million
16   dollars for injury resulting from release or escape of
I7   hazardous wastes to the environment;
18             An owner or operator would be required to establish
19   financial responsibility by obtaining liability coverage,  to
20   include sudden and non-sudden occurrences, from a pool of  i n -
2J   surance companies.
22             A comment on that:  My company, which is a fairly
23   good representative of the average reclaimer, grosses approx-
24   imately $1.5 million dollars per year.  Up to the present
25   time, we have been in a continuous squeeze on our finances due
26   to constantly changing requirements by Air Pollution, Water
27   Pollution, Department of Transportation, Cal-OSHA, et cetera.
28   If we were required, as now nrnnospd. to oost a five million
77

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dollar bond or, as proposed in Options 1  and 2,  maintain a
minimum insurance of one to ten million dollars  of financial
responsibility, we would not be able to survive, since the
cost of such coverage would completely consume any profit we
would be able to generate.
          On the other hand, if we, as processors, tried to
pass on the added costs to  the consumers  of our  reclaimed
materials, we would be unable to compete  with the manufactur-
ers of virgin materials.
          Added costs of cisposal  in Class 1 dumps, which
already have increased from 25 to  30 percent over the past
two years, would encourage  unethical people to dump their
waste with possible detriment to the environment and increased
hazards to health.
          We do not deny that some type of financial provision
has to be made in order to  care for human suffering and en-
vironmental damage occasioned by accidental spills, leaching
of hazardous materials from disposal sites, contamination of
water and soil.  History shows that these occurrences have
taken place, and most probably will happen again, regardless
of how careful we are at the processing plants and disposal
sites.  But if we are to require cradle-to-grave cognizance of
hazardous chemicals, we should try not to overcharge the grave
          Thank you very mjch.
          MR. SANJOUR:  Thank you, sir.  I am sorry that since
this subject is outside the scope  of the  purpose of these
meetings that we don't have the right people here to address
any of these issues.  People who are working on  these
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financial responsibility regulations are not here today.  So,
I don't think there is anything very intelligent that we can
say on that subject.
          MR. SCHNEIDER:  Well, I would like to ask one ques-
tion
          MR. SANJOUR:  We will see to it that it gets to the
right people.
          MR. SCHNEIDER:  Well, I thank you for giving me the
opportunity to say what I had to say, because sometimes we
are not able to go into Dallas or Washington, you see, just
by sheer workload factors.   So, since I had the opportunity to
present it here, if we could expedite that and put it in the
proper channels, I would certainly appreciate it.
          I"IR. SANJOUR:  Yes, I will see it gets to the proper
channels.  Also, I would like to invite you to come by when
we do have our public hearings on 3004, which, according to
the statement I gave this morning, should be toward the end of
this year.
          MR. SCHNEIDER-  Fine.  Thank you very much.
          MR. SANJOUR:  Thank you.  Any other questions,
comments, statements?  Nobody?  Okay, sir.
          UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Can you tell me
whether mining wastes will  be included under the 3001 listing
that you provided?
          MR. SANJOUR:  The current thinking is that they will
not be specifically listed.  The current thinking is that
the only mining waste that  will be listed is uranium mill
tailings.- which is not, strictly speaking, mining waste   It
                                                                     79

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 1   is a m-lling waste.   However, any mining waste which fills the
 2   characteristics of a hazardous waste is still  a hazardous
 3   waste, even if it's  not listed.
 4             Mining wastes in general  will be among those cate-
 5   gories of special  wastes tnat I  discussed earlier today,  that
 6   will have a special  treatment under Section 3004, on the  dis-
 7   posal  standards.  That's ojr current thinking  on mining
 8   wastes.
 9             Also, I  think now there is a  report  to Congress that
10   is due on the subject.
H             Yes, sir?
12             MR. MORRIS:   My name is Jim Morris.   I am an
13   attorney from Dallas,  Texas.
14             On the subject o" problem waste that you mentioned
15   earlier, one of waste  kiln dust,  is it  your intention to  de-
16   velop  guidelines similar to the  effluent guidelines in water
17   pollution of these wastes, for disposal of these wastes,  dis-
18   posal  guidelines addressing the  particular waste stream?
19             MR. SANJOUR:   Sonething like  that.   I can't say we
20   worked out in great  detail what  our intention  is at this  time.
21             MR. MORRIS:   My main question would  be, then, will
22   they go  to public  comment?
23             MR. SANJOUR:   Oh. sure.
24             MR. MORRIS:   Ind-vidually , and not  as part of 3004?
25             MR. SANJOUR:   It would  have to be as part of 3004,
26   but it wouldn't be during the first round of  3004.  In other
27   words, in December the proposed  regulations will not include
28   any specific standards for those  problem wastes.  Thev will
80

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 1  be only very general type standards, and the specific stan-
 2  dards will be postponed in the regulations.  At the same time,
 3  we will go out with an advance notice and  proposed rule making
 4  or even earlier than that, perhaps.  These are all being
 5  thought out.
 6            What I am saying is nothing is very hard and fast.
 7  But our current thinking is to come out with an advance notice
 8  and proposed rule making for the disposed  wastes, perhaps the
 9  same time as the proposal goes out, or perhaps even earlier,
10  and soliciting comments.
11            MR. MORRIS:  Under the Sections  of RCRA and under
12  3004, EPA has been very good about submitting drafts well in
13  advance of the proposal.  Will this be the case?
14            MR. SANJOUR:  Oh, sure.
15            Yes, sir?
16            MR. STAUHAUGH:  My name  is Roger Stauhaugh from
17  Exxon Company.  I haven't seen a draft of your proposed reg-
18  ulations on 3005.  I was wondering, for a  case, if you gener-
19  ate a hazardous waste, you are going to have to store it be-
20   fore having it hauled away.  Would this require a permit under
21   3005, under storage facility?
22             MR. SANJOUR:  The current draft  of 3002---it's a
23   good thing I have got a staff here to hold up the right number
24   The current draft of 3002 is that  generators who store for
25   less than 90 days do not require a storage permit.
26             MR. STAUHAUGH:  Okay, great.  I  had one other ques-
27   tion.  In your 3001 criteria will  you identify wastes that
28   are not hazardous, as well as those that are?
81

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 1            MR. SANJQUR:  No.
 2            MR. STAUHAUGH:  Such that, you know, you can el inn n-
 3  ate perhaps some types of construction wastes or, you know,
 4  of lumber and stuff like tiat, that we might dispose of?
 5            MR. SANOOUR:  No.
 6            MR. STAUHAUGH:  Thank you.
 7            MR. SANJOUR:  Any other questions or comments?  Yes,
 8  sir, come on up.  I don't think they can all hear you unless
 9  you speak into a microphone.  I know all you want to do  is ask
10  me, "which way to the men'5 room?"
11            UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER:  That's right.   Just
12  before the break you mentioned a quoted figure of one hundred
13  kilograms as being that limit of hazardous waste which would
14  be exempted from notification requirements.  My question is is
15  that per waste load or per compound?
16            MR. SANJOUR:  That is the total  waste, hazardous
I7  waste, generated by a facility.
!8            MS. SCHAFFER:  And disposed of.
19            UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER:  And for disposal?
20            MR. SANJOUR:  It's generated and disposed of,  per
21  month.
22            UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Because somebody
23  mentioned the word "zylene" and I wondered if you meant  that
24  by definition, per compound or the entire load.
25            MR. SANJOUR:  Entire load, yes.
26            UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Thank you.  Is  that
27  one hundred or one thousand?
28            MR. SANJOUR:  One hundred.  One hundred kilograms a

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 1   month, average, maximum.
 2             Y e s , s i r .
 3             MR. GRECO:  I made mention in the early part of our
 4   testimony about public education to compliment public partici-
 5   pation.  Is EPA considering an expanded public education pro-
 6   gram?  There is a  lot of public misunderstanding.
 7             MS. SCHAFFER:  Yes.  The Office of Enforcement, at
 8   least, has been looking into doing what we call an outreach
 9   program, and we are at the beginning stages of getting togeth-
10   er with the Office of Solid Waste to get a joint program going
11   to educate the public as well as industry as to what's going
12   on.
13             MR. SANJOUR:  Yes, sir?  Would you care to come up
14   here?
15             UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Can you tell me where
16   that hundred kilogram figure is found in any of the documents?
17             MR. SANJOUR:  The question is:  Where is that hun-
18   dred kilogram figure mentioned?
19             MS. SCHAFFER:  Under 3002.
20             MR. SANJOUR:  I  see.  3002 is the standards that
21   define a hazardous waste generator.  That's where the exempt-
22   ion appears.  In Section 3010 we require generators to notify.
23   Since they have been exempted in 3002,  it's not necessary for
24   them to notify.
25             Any other questions?  Okay.  With that, I think we
26   will adjourn, and  we will  reconvene at  7:30 p.m., if anyone is
27   i nteres ted.
28
83

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 1                       7:30 p.m. SESSION
 2             MS. PRINDIVILLE:  Good evening.  My name is Sheila
 3   Prindiville.  I am the Deputy Regional Administrator of EPA
 4   Region IX.   I would like to welcome you to our Regional Office
 5   and to the hearing this evening.
 6             As most of you krow, the hearings tonight will dis-
 7   cuss the regulations that EPA is proposing to promulgate under
 8   Section 3010 of the Resource Conservation and Recovery Act.
 9   These regulations are applicable to those who generate hazard-
10   ous wastes,  transport it, store it, treat it, or dispose of
11   it.  The regulations also speak to the procedures whereby
12   States may assume responsibility for the notification process
13   under Section 3010.
14             The timeliness of these hearings is probably best
15   exemplified  by the example of Love Canal.  Most of you are
16   familiar with that situation, a tragic situation which oc-
17   curred or which had its origin at a time when there were no
18   regulations  for the disposal of hazardous wastes.
19             He have with us a panel consisting of a Regional
20   Representative and staff from our Program Office in head-
21   quarters in  Washington, D.C.  The panel moderator for the
22   evening is Mr. William Sanjour, and he will introduce the rest
23   of the panel members.
24             MR. SANJOUR:  Thank you, Ms. Prindiville.
25             I  am Bill Sanjour, with the Solid Waste Office in
26   Washington,  D.C.  Next to me is Tim Fields, of the Solid
27   Waste Office; and Bill Snyder, also with the Solid Waste
28   Office; and  Amy Schaffer, with the Office of Enforcement; and

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Jim Channel!, with the Region  IX Office of Air  and  Hazardous
Materials.
          In fact, our schedule calls for several presenta-
tions by myself and the other  panel members, explaining  in
some detail the proposed standards under Section 3010.   I
think I will suggest that because the panel is  larger than the
audience this evening, that perhaps a less formal type of ar-
rangement might be appropriate.
          What I propose to do is to perhaps dispense with
the presentations on what these proposed regulations are,
since the primary purpose of these hearings is  not  for us to
tell you what's going on, but  for you to tell us what your
comments are, and just have kind of a round-table discussion
on anything that you care to bring up.
          Is there anybody who would object to  that kind of a
discussion this evening?
          In that case, then,  let's just launch right into •
I  understand there was somebody who cared to give a presents
tion this evening.  Is that true, Pat?
          MS.  EKLUND:   Yes.
          MR.  SANJOUR:  We will just open the floor to any-
body who has any statements  to give or questions to ask.
          UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER:   I did  have a state-
ment I  wanted to make.
                                                                     85
phone?
          MR. SANJOUR:  Why don't you come up to the micro-
          UMIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Maybe if we are go-
     inn  tn HP  so  informal—I  am  disappointed.   Were  there  many

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 1   people here earlier?                                            86
 2             MR. SANJOUR:   Yes, there were.  But you have got to
 3   remember, the people who come in the afternoon get paid to do
 4   it.  The people who come in the evening come on their own
 5   time, their own money.
 6             UNIDENTIFIED  AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I would like some in-
 7   formation, first.  I was wondering what California has done,
 8   as a State, since your  proposal mandates a little bit the
 9   States to get involved  in part of the regulations.
10             MR. SANJOUR:   I think Bill is the best person to
11   field that one	Jim, I mean.
i:             MR. SNYDER:  Thank you.
13             MR. CHANNEL:   Well, California's hazardous waste
14   program was ahead of EPA.  They have had a program for sever-
15   al years.  In fact, we  have gotten a great deal of benefit
16   out of looking at their experience.  We have funded a fair
17   amount of their program, bjt they have done quite well.
18             As far as this natification procedure that we are
19   discussing here, they don't have exactly a similar system.
20   Although they have a pretty good idea of most people, they
21   don't have a formal requirement that everybody notify them.
22             They are planning to apply to do the notification
23   for us when this comes  out.  So, they will be the ones that
24   are notifying, sending  mail-outs to all the people in
25   California that are expected to be producers.
26             UNIDENTIFIED  AUDIENCE MEMBER:  But up to this point
27   there is no systematic  appraisal of producers of hazardous
28   wa <; t p<; 1

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          MR. CHANMELL: That is correct, on a cross-the-board
basis.  They have a pretty good idea of the major ones.  They
have done more extensive surveys in several of your bigger
counties.  And they do have a system of requiring control of
the waste from the point of generation to disposal.
          But without a notification procedure like this,
where they can be more assured that they are getting every-
body, there  is undoubtedly some stuff outside the system.
          UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER:  When I took a look
at the sample notification form I was very much surprised.  I
don't know why.  Maybe I imagined that industries and compan-
ies had provided this information in a much more routine way
to government agencies, or that, say, locally, the City Healt
Department or the State Department of Health would have all
of this information on where hazardous wastes were going, how
much were going, et cetera.
          I  was completely baffled, I guess by my naivete,
that there would be included confidentiality claims.   I was
amazed that  there were three categories where notification
might be exempted.
          To exempt the type of hazardous waste that is
handled, or  the description or  the estimated amount,  seems
entirely foolish to me.
          MS. SCHAFFER:  It's  an exemption  from disclosure
by EPA or the State to the public.   They  are required  to
notify us, to give  us  the  information.
          UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE  MEMBER:   Yes,  I  understand
that,  but I  am  still  completely  baffled.   It seems  to
                                                                      37

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 1   circumvent the intention of the EPA, in protecting the environ
 2   ment, to only let that information go so far.  What is the EPA
 3   going to do with it?
 4             MR. SANJOUR:  Tiere is a second Act that has to be
 5   satisfied, not only RCRA.  There is also the Freedom of Infor-
 6   mation Act.  These confidentiality provisions arise out of the
 7   Freedom of Information Act.
 8             UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I  suppose I am ques-
 9   tioning that, also, those premises.  Much of my concern is
10   drawn from the fact that for the last couple years I have been
U   working on the nuclear power controversy.  So,  I  guess I feel
12   frustrated in coming befo-e you with a lot  of information, a
13   lot of background studies that I have done  on waste disposal
14   problems in that field, aid they need not be expressed here.
15             What I really wondered and wanted to  express to the
16   EPA was my concern that a^e we going to allow every industry
17   to go to that extent of development, and cancerous overdevel-
18   opment, in production of such horrifying waste, and going as
19   far as it being in secrecy, without the public  ever knowing
20   as to what kind of wastes are where, who is transporting it,
21   and who it's affecting, and how?
22             It's really a gjt level reaction, if  you can under-
23   stand that, that I am hers to try and question.  Are we going
24   to allow all of these wastes to fall in that kind of category,
25   to go that far?
26             MR. SANJOUR:  I think there are only  two questions
27   that are asked that can invoke the confidentiality provisions,
28   or three.  Which three ars those?

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  1             MR.  FIELDS:   Description  by  list,  description  by
  2   criteria,  and  quantity.
  3             MR.  SANJOUR:   Okay.   The  fact  that someone  is  gener-
  4   ating  a  hazardous  waste  cannot  be  kept  confidential.   The
  5   specific  description  of  it  may  possibly  be  confidential  under
  6   certain  aspects.   And  I  am  not  an  expert  in  that  at all, but
  7   basically  it's  because  the  Freedom  of  Information  Act  allows
  8   proprietary  corporate  information  to  be  kept out  of the  pub-
  9   lie.
 10             If the government  demands  that  information,  then  the
 11   Freedom  of Information  Act  allows  provisions where it  can't  be
 12   turned over  to  the public.
 13             I  see your  point,  and  there  is  another  side  to the
 14   picture  too.   Let  me,  not to dissuadeyou  but	
 15             UNIDENTIFIED  AUDIENCE  MEMBER:   Please.
 16             MR.  SANJOUR:   At  least show you what  the other side
 17   of  the story is.   Already,  before  this  Act  has  even been im-
 18   plemented, we  are  getting requests  from  corporations,  people
 19   who  do business, to get  this  specific  information  because
 20   they can  turn  a buck  on  it.
 21             For  example,  people  in the waste  hauling business
 22   want to  know who is generating  certain  kinds of waste  so that
 23   they can  get the waste  hauling  business.  We have  already
 24   gotten requests for that  kind  of information.   And industries
25   are  getting  very touchy  about  their  competitors asking  for
26   information  on  their  wastes  because  it  gives their competitor:
27   information  about  their  business.
28             These are the  kinds  of things  that are  going  on.   S<
89

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 1   on the one hand, there is the need for the public to know
 2   information.  On the other hand, there is the need for corpor-
 3   ations to have a certain amount of proprietary rights, and
 4   those two are attempted, :  guess, to be balanced off here.  I
 5   am not sure whether it's being done correctly, but that's
 6   what the attempt is.
 7             UNIDEMTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I guess that's where
 8   I am directing my statement, that I feel  the balance must go
 9   much more toward the publ'.c.  I am very glad to hear that
10   corporations are requesting this information.  I hope I am not
11   excluding anybody in participating.  These are terrible prob-
12   lems.  I am optimistic that we can solve them, but I do feel
13   that we need much more freedom of information.
14             MR. FIELDS:   As you can see by reading the Preamble
15   to the regulations, this "S an issue which has not been re-
16   solved.  There are two sides to it.  Even discussion has gone
17   on within the Agency about this issue.
18             The position we have taken regarding the sample forrr
19   does not mean that is  tne way we are going to go on the final
20   regulations.  There might not be any items in the final regu-
21   lations for which a confidentiality claim is allowed.  All we
22   can say is get your comments in, and we will consider both
23   sides of the issue, and then we will have to make a final de-
24   ci s i on .
25             Right now the sample form and the confidentiality
26   provisions only represent a tentative decision of the Agency
27   at this point.
28             UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Can  I ask what other
90

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ways have been suggested for the public to be informed, say,



after corporations volunteer information or are mandated to



provide information, or maybe less formally, what is expected



for the public to obtain this information?



          MR. SANJOUR:  Persons who treat, store or dispose o



hazardous waste are required to apply for a permit, and the



granting of a permit, I think, upon request, can be subject



to public hearing.  The public has to be informed that such a



request, that such a permit application has been made, and if



there is sufficient demand	1 don't know exactly how a decis



ion is made.  A public hearing can be demanded for each permi



          So, any people who treat, store or dispose of



hazardous waste can be subject to public scrutiny.



          UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER:  How long has that



been going on?



          MR. SANJOUR:  It hasn't gone on yet.  These regula-



tions haven't been implemented yet.



          MS. SCHAFFER:  The only way government now knows



about kinds of waste is through the water pollution, if they



need a permit, to get a water pollution permit to be able to



discharge pollution into the water.  There are hearings that



go on for that, and they do require public notice.  Just as



that we have a court reporter here, they require a court re-
porter .
          We are trying to do this same thing, if not better,
for the permit hearings, and getting them to be efficient and



effective, and have the public know what's going on.



          UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER:   Well, I had expected
                                                                      91

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 1  more of an audience.  I am kind of disappointed.
 2            MR. SANJOUR:  As I say, I am rather pleased, be-
 3  cause, as I  say, I think everyone who is here tonight is here
 4  on his own time, rather than the people here in the afternoon
 5  getting paid to be here.
 6            UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Since  I am here to
 1  comment from the public, jtst to express this,  I have total
 8  confidence in the EPA.  I hope and wish that somehow the
 9  standards that have been set for air quality and water quality!
10  would be met finally.  I dcn't know	maybe someone could
11  succinctly describe to me why it is that none of the standards]
12  are met, or  how exactly the^y are evaded.
13            MR. SANJOUR:  I em not sure you have  the right
14  people on the panel to address that.  We are all from the
15  Solid Waste  Office	unless Ms. Prindiville cares to address
16  that issue?  It's really a bit out of line of what the scope
17  of these hearings is about, which is basically  the Solid
18  Waste Act Section 3010.
19            UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Well,  I still think,
20   at least for my comments, that it's very, very  important,
21   because that's really in the background of what we are talkincj
22   about.  And  if people aren't going to pay attention to what
23   the EPA says, and if it cones down to legislation and enforce-)
24   ment, I think it's vital for the public to understand that
25   poi nt, also.
26             What is holding up this stage of cleaning up the
27   environment, beyond enforcement?  I guess I have expressed my-|
28   self.  Maybe you understand my frustration.

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          MR. SANJOUR:  As I say, once again, you are beyond
my area of expertise.  I am in the Solid Waste Office and how
well or poorly the Air Act or the Water Acts are going is
really something that I don't think anybody at this table
knows much about.
          UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Do you foresee a
similar problem with solid waste management?
          MR. SANJOUR:  Certainly not.  I am not sure there
a problem in the air, you see.
          UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Well, if these hear-
ings were held in Los Angeles, I am sure you would notice.
          MR. SANJOUR:  There can be problems with the air
without there being problems with the administration of the
Air Act.   Those are not synonomous.
          UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER:  True.
          MR. SANJOUR:  For example, for the most part, we
have to deal  with the law that's passed  We have gotten a lot
of questions  today about why,  for example, we don't do this,
that or the other thing,  why we don't regulate sites on which
wastes have been abandoned, hazardous waste sites; why we
don't require additional  kinds of information.
          The answers are very simple.   We have to live with-
in the scope  of the law that was passed.   We are not hired to
be environmentalists.  We are hired  to  enforce the law.   We
can  be environmentalists  within  what the  scope of  that law
says we can do.   Regardless of where our  hearts may be,  the
courts can throw us out.
          UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE  MEMBER:   Sure.
                                                                     93

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 1             MR. SANJOUR:  So, I don't know to what extent
 2   those comments would also apply to your comments about en-
    forcement of other laws.  I don't know to what extent these
    laws are incapable of dealing with the problems, as you see
    them.
              Now, your question about whether or not we intend
    to enforce the law.  I intend to enforce the law, but I can
    only speak for myself.
              MS. SCHAFFER:  Enforcement intends to enforce the
10   law.
11             UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Thank you.
12             MR. SANJOUR:  Are there any other questions we want
 '   to pursue here?  Come, now.  Surely you didn't all  come here
14   just to 1i sten.
15             UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I would like to hear,
    if no one else has any requests, at least, maybe a  summary of
    what presentation might have been made on enforcement, since
18   that was my last line of questioning.
19             MS. SCHAFFER:  The only thing that I spoke on was
20   concerning enforcement of the notification section  and saying
21   that basically you see part of enforcement as being the
22   enticement for voluntary compliance with it.
              The second thing is that we really feel notifica-
    tion is an important part of the system, and that we will, to
 5   our best ability, enforce the law.
26             The law allows us up to a $25,000-a-day fine.  In
27   fact, I am sure that that will not be assessed for  each
28
    violation.   But we do have a broad ranqe of violations and
                                                                    94

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  1   penalties  that  we  can  assess.   That's  basically  what  I  said.
  2             UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE  MEMBER:   People  had asked
  3   questions  of  why  there aren't  guidelines  for  directly  relating
  4   to  abandoned  waste sites.   Could  you explain  to  me why  these
  5   proposed  rules  only  discussed  future notifications?
  6             MS.  SCHAFFER:   Because  the Act  is  silent on  that.
  7             MR.  SANJOUR:   The Act  is  silent  on  abandoned  sites,
  8   and  so  are  the  regulations.
  9             UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE  MEMBER:   And  those are  hope-
 10   fully covered  by  another Act?
 11             MS.  SCHAFFER:   Not yet.
 12             MR.  SANJOUR:   Depends  on  who you  ask,  what  their
 13   interpretation  of  the  law is.   I  would say  there is consider-
 14   able debate and  ambiguity on that  score.
 15             UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE  MEMBER:   It's  unfortunate.
 16             MR.  SANJOUR:   Yes, very unfortunate.   I  suspect
 17   that Congress  is  going to have to pass another law  if  it want
 18   to  be serious  about  abandoned  sites, because  even  if you do
 19   interpret  this  law as  having jurisdiction  over abandoned
20   sites,  the  jurisdiction  that it  has  is not  really  sufficient
21   to  do much  about  it  because the  jurisdiction  is  only over  the
22   owners  of  sites,  not the people  who  put  the  waste  there, but
23   the  people  who  currently own it.
24             So,  if  the current owner  of  an  abandoned site hap-
25   pens to own a  house  that was built  on  the  abandoned site,  he
2°   is  the  only one we can do anything  about  under this law, and
27   he  is incapable of doing anything about  it.
28             So,  I would  say the  whole  area  of  abandoned  sites
95

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 1  is one that Congress is going to have to address, or something



 2            There is a tremendous interest in it right now as a



    result of the Canal incident.  Since that incident, people are



    finding out there are very similar sites all over the country,



    with the same kind of properties, abandoned sites, where haz-



    ardous wastes are getting into the whole environment.



 7            VJhether or not this law was intended to apply to



 8  abandoned sites, there really is no remedy under Federal law



    at th i s moment.



10            MR. FIELDS:  The Agency has taken a position that we



11  will use Section 7003 of the Act, the Imminent Hazards provis-



12  ions.  If we identify some imminent hazard or danger to the



    public, we will  act against that site pursuant to the Section



    7000 Act.  So, there is some authority within the Act if we



15   do determine there is a problem.



              MR. SANJOUR:  But all that authority is the author-



17   ity to go to court and ask a judge to solve a problem.



18             UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I was puzzled a bit



    by what I assumed was an exemption of some kind, where this



20   Act is superseded by the Atomic Energy Act of 1-954 for radio-



    active waste.



22             MR. SANJOUR:  That is written specifically in the



    Act.  It's in the definition of "solid waste" in the Act,



24   under the definitions.  Wastes which are regulated by the



    Nuclear Regulatory Commission are exempt from this Act.



26             UNIDENTIFIED ALDIENCE MEMBER:  So, obviously, that



27   would include abandoned sites.



28             MR. SANJOUR:  It does not exempt uranium mill
96

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     tailings.   And  the  decision  has  recently  been  made to  put
     uranium  mill  tailings  under  this Act.
               MR.  CHANNEL!.:  It  doesn't include  other radioactivity
     ei ther.
  5             MR.  SANJOUR:   Yes,  sir?
  6             UNIDENTIFIED  AUDIENCE  MEMBER:   What's  been  the  re-
     sponse  at,  like,  the other  public hearings?  Were there simi-
  n
     lar  type issues  as  were  raised  at this  hearing this  morning,
  9   or  this  afternoon,  to  3010?
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25
26
27
28
                                                                97
          MR. SANJOUR:  Yes.
          MR. FIELDS:  I think there were a couple new ones
here today.
          MR. SANJOUR:  Most of these issues were raised, but
yes.  Usually at these hearings the people we get are corpor-
ate representatives, and for the most part, people who are
regulated, who would come under the regulations.
          The kind  of questions that they usually ask are
the kind of  questions that would affect them, like, "Do I
have to comply"  or "Why do I have to comply" or "Is my waste
covered by the Act?"  There is an awful lot of that sort of
thing.
          The confidentiality provision, there was a great
deal of discussion about that.  It seems that a lot of cor-
porations are concerned that if the States taken over this
program—and there are provisions for the States to run this
program	that the State laws may not be as stringent as the
Federal  law,  as  far as protecting their corporate confiden-
tiality, so  that the public would have greater access to theiif

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     confidential information.  And they were very concerned that
     that shouldn't be the case, that we should require the States
     to have as stringent coverage of confidentiality before we
     turn the program over to the States.  There was a lot of that
  5  opinion expressed today, which I hadn't heard a great deal of
     i n the past.
  7            There is a special provision in these regulations.
  8  We call it "limited interim authorization," which is a provis
 10
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25
26
28
ion to allow the States to implement the notification aspects
of the law, because while Congress expressed an intent to
allow the States to run the program	in fact, a desire very
strongly expressed, unambiguously   expressed	it also turns
out that the law was perhaps poorly drafted, in that it would
be very difficult for the States to take over the notificatio
program because of the timing involved.
          So, we wrote our regulations,  and several  States
 17   indicated to us, during the course of our developing these
regulations, that it was imperative that they do run the
notification program, because if they were to ultimately take
over the program, they didn't want the Federal government to
handle the notification and then have the States take over
the program, especially States that already have ongoing
"   programs.
24
               They felt that the interference of the Federal
government in their program at that stage would be very
detrimental to their program.   So, they felt it was impera-
27    tive that those States that intend to take over the Federal
     program also be able to handle the notification.
                                                                98

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               So,  we wrote into  the regulations what we call  this
     "limited  interim authorization,"  which was  a means of greasing
     the skids,  if  you like,  for  the States to take over the noti-
     fication  provisions.
               Quite a few industry people this  morning objected
     to  that  provision of  limited interim authorization.  They did
     not want  the States  taking over.   One of the chief reasons
     given  was  this confidentiality provision, because they felt
     the States  couldn't  protect  their confidentiality as well as
 10   the Federal  government could.
 11             UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER:   One person this  af
 12   ternoon,  I  think from the  State of Utah, brought up the point
 13   about  could  a  State  require  additional information in the
     notification than is  required  in  the currently proposed 3010
 15   rules?
               MR.  SANJOUR:   And  the answer to that was yes, they
 17   could.
 18             UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER:   Then, thinking about
 19   that more,  depending  upon  how  much information is requested
 20   and what  kind  of information is requested may delay the
 21   ability  of  a company  affected  to  respond within that period
 22   of  time,  not knowing  what  type of information may be request-
 23   ed.  Has  this  been brought up?
 24             MR.  SANJOUR:   A  similar point  was raised by several
25   industry  people.   Several  people  objected to the phrase we
26   used,  that  it  would  be  fairly  easy for industry to fill  out
27   this notification and respond.  They objected.   They felt it
28   could  be  quite difficult.
99

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 1            While  that doesn't directly answer your  question,  I
 2   think  it  pervaded  that quite a  few  industry people  thought
 3   that filling out those hazardous waste  notification  forms
 4   could,  in fact,  be very costly  and  time consuming.
 5            So, your point about  the  States adding features
 6   could  make  it even more costly  and  time consuming.
 7            The Federal law  requires  certain items of  notifica-
 8   tion.   EPA  has no discretion  on that.  There are  certain
 9   specific  items required in  the  law.  On the other  hand,  if the
10   States  were to add to that, and  if  we were to take  a  position
11   that notification  on the Federal law is not satisfied  unless
12   all those additional Sta-;e  items are also included,  I  guess
13   the case  could be  made that we  have exceeded our authority.
14   That's  at least  a  possible  argument that could  be  made.  We
15   will have to think about it.
16            MS. SCHAFFER:  Yes.   If the State doesn't  have the
17   legislative ability to collect  the  information, then  I  don't
18   think  that  they  can ask for it,  you know, unless they  want to
19   go beyond the scope of their laws.  We, as EPA, the  Federal
20   EPA, will not enforce the  collection of that additional  i n -
21    formation.  It's definitely on  the  list to be thought  about
22    though.
23            MR. SANJOUR:  Any other questions, statements?
24             UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE  MEMBER:  I have another
25    question.
26             MR. SANJOUR:  Sure.
27             UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE  MEMBER:  Regarding  this  docu-
28    ment,  Words Into Deeds, it  says  on  page 6 that  "In  view  of
10

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 1   the  nature and  complexity of  the  issues,  the Act  addresses



 2   voluntary changes  in  institutional  and  personal habits  and



 3   attitudes, as  intended  to stimulate  the direct  and  indirect



 4   regulatory actions  it describes,  but  successful implementation



 5   depends on a high  level of  public  understanding and participa-



 6   tion."



 7            Could  someone comment on  the  voluntary  changes  in



 8   institutional  or especially personal  habits and attitudes



 9   surrounding the  Act,  or again, is  that  outside  of your  spec-



10   ialty?



11            MR.  SANJOUR:  I haven't  read  the document in  ques-



12   tion.  Why.don't you  let me see the  document, see if  I  can



13   comment intelligently?



14            MS.  SCHAFFER:  I  think  what they are  talking  about,



15   basically, is  the  reduction of production of hazardous  waste



16   and  wastes in  general, you  know.   Don't throw away  so many



17   things.



18            UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER:   Anticipating greater



19   recycling?



20            MS.  SCHAFFER:  Yes.  I  think, in the  long run,  the



21    way  the regulations will go is that  it  will become  too  expen-



22    sive to dispose  of  wastes,  and that  people in industry  will



23    try  to recycle,  which is the  raison  d'etre of the Act.



24             MR.  SANJOUR:  Perhaps we  are  getting  a  little far



25    afield, but the  very  fact of  government looking at  industries'



26    hazardous waste  generation  and disposal practices has already



27    considerably changed  a great  many  industry practices, because



28    hitherto industry  has never paid  any money or many  industries
101

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haven't paid much money or pa^ much attention to what happens
to their waste.   Once they find the government looking at it,
then they themselves look at it.   They start putting high-
priced people to thinking about what they are doing and how
they are doing it.
          People's  attitudes change.  Something becomes worth
looking into when somebody else is looking at it.
          UNIDENTIFIED AU3IENCE MEMBER:   Sure.
          MR. SANJOUR:  Bjt that's been  mostly the case of
State action, not even Federal  action.  Federal government is
something of a Johnny-corn?-1ately in the whole hazardous
waste business.   California is  probably  the leader in that
sort of thing.
          UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER:   How do you see
counties and city governments as  continuing, say, their inter-
est management of hazardous wastes?
          MR. SANJOUR:  I don't think county and city govern-
ments have had much role in the past, and I don't see too
much really in the  future.   I 'think it's	
          MS. SCHAFFER:  Mostly statewide.
          MR. SANJOUR:  Yes.  I can't see much below the State
1evel .
          MR. CHANNELL: Yes.  The key point on that is that
there are not that many hazardous waste sites in practice that
the materials do travel regionally.   So, for a particular
city to go its own way is not as effective.
          It's also more difficult to try and control the
movement of it by the manifest system as you break it down
                                                                    102

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     below a  State 1evel.
               MR. SANJOUR:   Any other comments,  questions?   Per-
     haps  we  ought to  call  it a  night.
     here?
               UNIDENTIFIED  AUDIENCE  MEMBER:   Where do  we go  from
               MR.  SANJOUR:   Where do  we go from here?   I  guess
     that's  one  part of the  statement  that  I  really ought  to  get
     into,  and  that is  talking  about the  schedule  of our regula-
     tions.
          Under Subtitle C of the Resource and Conservation
                                                                103
Recovery Act, we are writing something like a half dozen
different regulations, of which this is just one.  Sections
3006, 3010 and 3003 have already been proposed.  There are twc
stages to writing regulations in the Federal government, or
at least in EPA.
          The first is to propose them formally, and then,
after you have a sufficient comment period, to promulgate
them finally.  So, three have been proposed.
          The more substantive ones have not yet been pro-
posed.  These are the ones that deal with defining a hazardous
waste and the standards for the treatment, storage and dis-
posal of hazardous wastes.  He intend to propose those
standards by the end of this year, and to promulgate them
finally sometime in 1979.  That is hopefully where we go from
here.
          Six months after they go final, they are implemented
Within that period, persons who generate, transport, treat,
store or dispose of hazardous wastes have a 90 day period

-------
 1  where they are required to notify EPA that they do that, and
 2  that's what these regulations are about.
 3            And if they don't notify EPA, then they can no
 4  longer transport, treat, store or dispose of hazardous wastes.
 5            UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER:  That was 90 days
 6  after what date?
 7            MR. SANJOUR:  90 days after we promulgate regula-
 8  tions under Section 3001; that is, the regulations which de-
 9  fine a hazardous waste.
10            UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Which will be at
11  what date?
12            MR. SANJOUR:  We presently anticipate that to happer
13  sometime in 1979.
14            UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Okay, thank you.
15            MR. SANJOUR:  Any other questions?
16            Thank you for ccming.
17            Would you like tie to give your announcements > Pat?
18            MS. EKLUND:  Sure, yes.
19            MR. SANJOUR:  I forgot to do that this morning.
20  There are several upcoming public meetings which Pat Ekland
21  asked me to announce.  On September 19th there is a public
22  meeting on Section 4002 (t) of the Resource Conservation and
23  Recovery Act, on guidelines for development and implementatior
24  of State solid waste management plans.
25             On September 21st there is a public meeting on pro-
26   posed water program public participation regulations.  That
27  should interest you.
78             Thprp  is also a public meeting on proposed
104

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  1   regulations for national pollution discharge  elimination




  2   systems.




  3             For more information, see Patricia  Eklund,  who  is  i




  A   the  rear  of the auditorium.




  5             Thank you all, and good night.




  6             MS.  EKLUND:   Thank you for coming.




  7                           ---oOo---



  8




  9




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105

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               Statement on Proposed Federal Regulations for
            Preliminary Notification of Hazardous Waste Activities*
I am William F. Jopling, Acting Assistant Chief, Hazardous Materials

Management Section of the California State Department of Health Services,

The Department has the authority and responsibility for ihe requlation of

hazardous waste activities in California pursuant to State law.  Farther,

the Department has been designated in accordance with the provisions of

Section 4006(b) of the Resource Conservation and Recovery Act  (RCRA) a,

the State agency responsible for hazardous waste management planning s^d

implementation within the boundaries of the State of California.
We intend to seek limited interim authorization to carry out the

program required by Section 3010 of the RCRA and have been authorized

federal grant funds to accomplish the regulatory agency portion of this

activity.


The notification activity will require close cooperation between the Der=ri

ment and Region IX of EPA in order to prepare and carry out this rrogrqm  <•

effective manner.  We look forward to a continuation of cur close ,jcr! '.r.-

relationship with the Regional Office in this matter.


For those States seeking authorization, the regulations call for n-.

development of c. notification plan by the State agency, review ar,J anprov, '

by the Regional Administrator of EPA, and agreement for limited interiir

authorization within four months of the promulgation of the Section 3010

regulations.  We believe that the requirements for authr rization are

reasonable and that this can be accomplished in a straight-forward fashion.
* Statement presented by W. Joplino, California Department of Health
  Services, at a public hearing held by EPA, Aug. 24,  1978,  San  Francisco,

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work cooperatively with EPA to see that this  important  statute




is properly implemented.




          With this background,  I  am pleased  to  offer a  few  of




USWAG's observations on EPA's  proposed  rules  for "Preliminary




Notification of Hazardous  Waste  Activities" under Section  3010




of RCRA.  Since USWAG will scon  file more  comprehensive  comments




on these proposed regulations,  I shall  confine my remarks  today




to the high points of our  submission.




          First, I would  like  to repeat our fundamental  concern




about the fragmented manner in which EPA is promulgating regu-




lations under RCRA.  It simply is  impossible  to  make a  fully




comprehensive analysis of  this or  any other proposed rule  when




vitally important pieces  of the  regulatory puzzle are missing.




Therefore we again request, as we  have  in  previous comments  and




testimony, that EPA keep  the record open on these and all  forth-




coming proposed RCRA rules urtil the entire package of  proposals




has been published.




          Second, we are  concerned that these regulations




improperly revise the Federal-State relationships envisioned




by RCRA.  These proposed  regulations would allow a state to




adopt a more stringent definition  of "hazardous  waste"  than




that promulgated by EPA under  Section 3001, and  would allow




use of this definition to  invoke the notification procedures




of Section 3010.  We of course cannot at this time be sure




that EPA's definition under Section 3001 will be reasonable

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                                    -3-

importani in the case of several hundre,; '-.d^urucus waste facility operators
who have already submitted State hazardous waste facility Demit a^licaticrs
to the Department cf Health Services.

The notification requires the identification of the types of hazardous wast' s
in accordance with the criteria of the section 3001 regulations.  Inasr ucn as
•T'any parties may have no knowledge of the criteria, EPA might considc1" prepa-
ring a one sheet summary of the main points 01 the criteria for incusion vvity,
the notification form or including a list of "common name" wastes such as the
list that California has developed of wastes which are yenerally considered
tn he hazardous.  This might assist the parties in reaching a decision a- *•->
whether their wastes are hazardous or not.

Section 250.320 excludes owners of inactive facilities from the notification
process.  Perhaps it is beyond the scope of" the law to include inactive
operations; however, their inclusion could be a means to obtain infornidtion
which would be useful in preventing possible problems associated with fu.i.:;'e
uses of these aress.

It would be very beneficial to have some idea of waste volume provided.   The
law does not require this information and it is an optional item i'i the
prepared regulations.  Perhaps small volume operations could be encouraged
to provide some indication  of their size.   This would assist in setting
priorities for penrit activities.

With specific regard to the sample notification form, many industries n^y
treat and/or store wastes at on-site facilities arc! eventually dispose  ^
hazardous residues oft-s^te.   Under Item 4, if instructions were included to

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                                    -4-

circle the appropriate on-s1te activity as is done for the transport mode,
this would give a clearer picture of the operation.
Also, 1t might be clearer to those completina the form that the "undetermined"
colum in Item 5 is to be used only for the toxic category if the "undetermined"
boxes for radioactive and corrosive wastes could be blacked out or cross
hatched.

We have questions regarding EPA Irtentions regarding the follow-up of notiti -
cation violations, (particularly if a significant percentage do not respond),
use of State criteria which may be more restrictive than EPA criteria in
some aspects and less restrictive 1n others, and permit applications for
facilities which are not included in State permit requirements.  We will
pursue these subjects if necessary after additional  discussions with the
Region IX staff.
Thank you for the opportunity to comment on the proposed regulations.

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                STATEMENT OF STEPHEN A.  WIEGHAN
                ENVIRONMENTAL PLANNING ENGINEER
               SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA EDISON COMPANY
                         ON BEHALF OF
            THE UTILITY SOLID WASTE ACTIVITIES  GROUP
                   EDISON ELECTRIC INSTITUTE

           Before The U. S. Environmental Protection
           Agency Public Hearing on Proposed Regula-
            tions Implementing Section 3010  of  the
        Resource Conservation and Recovery Act  of 1976


          San Francisco, California, August  24,  1978


          Good afternoon.  My name is Stephen A.  Wiegman.   I

am an Environmental Planning Engineer with the  Southern  Cali-

fornia Edison Company.   I am appearing today as  representa-

tive of the Utility Solid Waste Activities Group,  known  by

the acronym "USWAG," and the Edison Electric Institute.

          USWAG is successor to the Solid Waste  Group Task

Force of the Edison Electric Institute,  the  principal national

association of investor-owned electric light and  power companies.

EEI represents member companies who own  and  operate about 75%

of the nation's electrical capacity and  service  approximately

79% of the ultimate electric service customers  in the United

States.

          Our membership has actively participated in EPA's ef-

forts to date to develop regulations under the  Resource  Conser-

vation and Recovery Act of 1976.   This participation reflects

recognition that portions of these regulations  will impact  sub-

stantially upon our industry,  and a commitment  to attempt to

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The time squeeze of major concern to us is the 90-day pe"i'od Imnerh'ately
following the promulgation of 3001 regulations sometime late in 1978.  In
that period, tf? State will distribute notification forms and other perii-
nent material. ?nd will receive back the reouirpd information from oarticr.
involved in hazardous waste activities.  It is our understanding that ft-'A,
through a separate contrc-ctcr, h->s developed lists of parties to be notified.
Although we have no direct knowledge of the size and extent of the California
l^st, the EPA State Guidance Document for FY 1979 indicated that there '-ere
77,000 hazardous waste generators TI California - - more than double the
number for any other state.  This "jggests that there May be substantial
duplication or extraneous parties deluded in the list.  If some effort
could be given to screen and refine the lists prior to the mail-out it ',ouU'
ma!'t the event" during the critical  90-day period much more manfcieable anc
reduce unecessary problems to those  receiving notification forms.

Ccraients were requested on the advisability of either distributing permit
applications along with the notification firms, or indenendectly distribution
applications following the return cf the notification forms.  We ^°e some
major problems either way.  The separate mailing will result in a sign1f1rani.
logistics problem involving thp ^creeninn o-f returned forms to identify
parties which should receive permit applications, a second distribution anr'
return activity, and a major effort in the recording of all these actions
which must take place within a very limited time period.  On the other r>ar,d,
the combined mail-out will result in a majority of parties, i.t., the waste
generators who do not store, treat ?r dispose of wastes on-site, receiving
unapplicable permit anplications.  Ke  tend to support trie single rail-out
provided that a clear explanation is included as to who must fill out and
return the application and who should  ignore  it.  This would be parti

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and appropriate.  But the concept of two or more definitions




of "hazardous waste" triggering notification requirements




flies in the face of the language of the statute, which clearly




states that a person is required to give notice only of those




wastes identified or listed by EPA under Section 3001.   More-




over, the possibility of inconsistent definitions would subject




companies operating in different states to differing standards




-- a situation the statute seeks to avoid.




          We continue to believe that the consistency require-




ments of RCRA preclude a state from adopting a more expansive




definition of hazardous waste than that promulgated by  EPA.




The purposes of RCRA demand a uniform -- and appropriate —




definition of hazardous waste.  Only under a uniform defini-




tion will one state be prevented from in effect forcing wastes




into other states.




          We also submit that the so-called "limited interim




authorization1' procedure established by Sections 250.850 and




250.811 of the proposed regulations is also inconsistent with



the Federal-State division of responsibility established by




RCRA.   There in fact is nothing in the statute to indicate




that a state which has not received permitting authority under




Section 3006 may nonetheless receive notification under Section




3010.




          We agree with EPA that the "limited interim"  notifi-




cation procedure it proposes will create a  "disjointed  pro-




gram."  We would add that it will create a  lot of needless

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administrative confusion as well.   Moreover,  what  happens  if




this hybrid procedure is someday declared  illegal?  Will com-




panies who have filed with a state find themselves in viola-




tion of the obligations  creatsd by Section 3010  to file a  no-




tification "as required  under this subsection"?  This is




particularly important to the utility industry,  since a fre-




quent condition of our financing arrangements is that no Fed-




eral statute be violated.




          Thus, we urge  the Agency to abandon the  "limited




interim authorization" proposal and to adopt  a procedure that




is consistent with the statute, namely, that  notification  shall




be given to the appropriate Regional Administrator or to those




states which have received authorizations  as  provided by Sec-




tion 3006.




          Third, we disagree rfith  the Agency's statements




that "little time should be needed to prepare the  notification




response" and that the economic impact of  these  regulations will




be "negligible."  Because the Section 3001 regulations —  which




presumably will define "hazardous  waste" — have not yet been




proposed, it is simply too early to tell how  much  time or  cost




will be required to provide the preliminary notification re-




quired by Section 3010.   If EFA seeks to require extensive




testing procedures, it may be very difficult  to  file an ade-




quate, carefully prepared response in 90 days.  Most of the

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members of US'.'.'AG are not currently starfed to collect  the  nec-




essary samples,  run the tests,  compile the information,  and




send the information to EPA or  the states in less than 90  days.




In many cases,  outside firms may have to be hired to accomplish




some or all of  these tasks.  This will involve considerable




expense.  We submit that the short time limit established  by




Section 3010 mandates that EPA  carefully evaluate the  adminis-




trative burdens  imposed by its  procedures under Section  3001.




Of course, our  members can be expected to meet all the require-




ments of RCRA.   Our concern, however, is that EPA may  be ask-




ing us to do more than the law  requires.




          In closing,  I would like to mention briefly  two  ad-




ditional points  that will be developed further in our  writ-




ten submission.   First, we again call to EPA's attention the




critical distinction between municipal waste and utility waste,




a distinction to which the Agency has been insensitive in  de-




veloping its regulations.  Second, we submit that definitions




should be provided, or existing definitions clarified,  for a




number of terms  used in the proposed notification rules,




including "transporter" and "hazardous waste activity."



          USWAG  appreciates the opportunity to testify today,




and we will continue to follow  with great interest EPA's efforts




to implement the Resource Conservation and Recovery Act.

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     Browning-Ferris Industries, Inc.
FANNIN BANK BLDG  • P.O BOX 3151 • HOUSTON, TEXAS 77001 • (713)790-1611
                    Presentation

                         of

                   3ames R. Greco
                      Director
            Government and Industry Affairs
            Browning-Ferris Industries, Inc.


                         on

                   August 2*, 1978

               San Francisco, California

                   pertaining to the

     United States Environmental Protection Agency
  Preliminary Notification of Hazardous Waste  Activities
                 Proposed Procedures

                  as published in the

            Duly 11, 1978 Federal Register
       Volume 43, Number 133, Pages 29908-29916

                     pursuant to

                    Section 3010
        Resource Conservation and Recovery Act
                  Public Law 9^-580

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We have carefully reviewed the  proposed procedures for preliminary notification



of hazardous waste  activities  and recognize that these  proposed  rules, when




finalized, and with the promulgation of the  3001  criteria  for identification  and



listing of hazardous wastes, will  commence the "cradle to grave" control concept



for hazardous wastes.   Though  the Federal regulatory program for abating  and



controlling the  pollution  potential of  mis-managed wastes  has  not yet been



implemented, we have  observed  much activity at the state  level with the passage



of hazardous waste management laws, the promulgation of regulations,  and  the



upgrading of  permit  programs  for  needed  treatment, storage,  and  disposal



facilities.   Additionally,  we, and others, have  witnessed an increased public



concern and awareness regarding the disposal of chemical wastes.  As a result,



the Resource Conservation  and Recovery  Act of  1976  — RCRA  —  and  the



Agency's conscientious  efforts  to implement  its mandates loom more and more



important day by day.






In this regard the general public needs to be made more  aware that hazardous



wastes can be managed  safely, that facilities for their treatment and disposal are



needed, and  that the   governmental  framework  for assuring environmentally-



protective  practices has been established.  Failure to  acknowledge these facts



will likely encourage  greater public mis-understanding, alarm, and  a  lack of



confidence  —   particularly,  when   preliminary  notification  procedures   are



instituted.





                                      -2-

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Since the enactment of RCRA, the Agancy has conducted numerous meetings for




soliciting widespread input and  commentary from the general public and every



conceivable affected  entity.   Though lengthy  and resource  demanding,  the




rulemaking  process undertaken  by the  Agency  has been commendable  with



efforts for  enhancing public participat on being exemplary.  An expanded "public



education and understanding" effort, however, is  needed to complement "public



participation"  in development, revision, implementation, and enforcement of any



regulation, guideline, information, etc.






Browning-Ferris Industries is  a publicly-held company engaged in providing  solid




and  liquid   waste  collection, processing/recovery,  and   disposal services  to



business, government, and the public.  Using the terminology of RCRA, we would



be considered  a  transporter  of hazardous  waste  as  well as  an operator  of



facilities for treatment, storage, and disposal of hazardous wastes.  Briefly, our



experience and capabilities derive  from the operation of approximately a dozen



facilities which  handle industrial liquids, slurries, and  sludges,  spent  pickle



liquors and other waste acids, neutral! Jed acidic  sludges, organic and inorganic




chemicals,  and other wastes which  might be determined to be hazardous once the



3001 criteria are  finalized. These wastes are managed by BFI  in special sanitary



landfills, secure  landfills, chemical fixation facilities, neutralization plants, or



disposal wells  located throughout the country.  Another  60  of  our waste disposal



sites, typically for  landfilling municipal, commercial, and industrial solid wastes,



may conceivably be subject to the preliminary notification requirements.






                                      -3-

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Pursuant  to  our review  of the subject proposed  rules, two  particular areas



concern  us:  (1) the  limited  interim authorization considerations  presented  in



section 250.810 and  (2) the  information  required  in  the  notification and the



confidentiality  aspects of that information, identified in section 250.823.




Regarding "limited interim  authorization"  we would concur with EPA's desire  to



allow as many  states as possible to participate  in the preliminary notification

                                      coUfker
program.   However, we question  the  logalky  of  the  program  as  currently
delineated  in section 250.81 IHunless  the  program callsTat anrrtfurnufnT for the
                            A*


state to show:



      (a)    that its  legislature  had passed  enabling  legislation  and that an



             active  hazardous waste control program had been implemented or



             commenced pursuant to that  legislation by Duly 21st  of  this year.



             As we  understand section 3006(c) of RCRA, that date July 21st was



             determined  as  the  date "90 days after  the  date  required  for



             promulgation of regulations under  sections 3002, 3003,  3004, and



             3005..." which would be April 21st, 1978 or  thereabout.



      (b)    At  a  minimum,  its  hazardous  waste   program  must have  a



             preliminary  notification  program "substantially equivalent"  to the



             EPA's  program contained in W CFR  Part 250 Subpart G as it is



             finally  promulgated.





At this time, we feel that Section 250.810 is deficient because:



      (I)    The states are not required to show that they had a program "under



             State law" in effect on or before July 21, 1978, and

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      (2)    The  states  are  not  required  to  show  that  their  preliminary



             notification  program  is  substantially equivalent  to the  EPA's



             program.  Particularly, the states are not required to show  that



             they have programs to protect proprietary information  which is



             "substantially equivalent" to the EPA's program.






"Substantial  equivalency"  with  respect  to  the   protection  of  proprietary



information is important since some states  may not have a statutory framework



for handling  and, in certain  instances,  protecting one  from public  disclosure of



proprietary information  whereas  other  states  may.   Owners or  operators  of



hazardous  waste  facilities  may  pojgthly  incur a competitive  disadvantage,



depending upon whether or not certain information in some states is protected or




not.





Relative to our second primary concern — confidentiality claims as addressed in



Section 250.823(b)(10) and referenced in the supplementary information part of



the  Federal  Register notice entitled  "Confidentiality  Provisions", we would



concur  with  the first option  identified,  which is currently presented  in  the



proposed rules.   If  the  second option were incorporated  — that is,  requiring



submission   of  substantiation  at  the  time   of   initial  notification  —   the



requirements would be very demanding upon both  the affected entity and the



EPA.  In our estimation,  in some  cases we likely could not possibly provide the



kind of information  to substantiate any confidentiality claims and still  meet the



90 day  deadline.  Additionally, EPA's waiting until a request  for the information






                                      -5-

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has been  filed to support the substantiation of our proprietary claim  does not



create a burden on the EPA regional offices any greater than  if the information



is solicited in the first instance when we file our notice. Also, the overall cost



impact,  paperwork-handling  efficiency,   and   best   utilization  of  personnel



resources would probably best benefit the public if option 1 were retained.






Certain features of the proposed rules are noteworthy, which we also concur




with,  namely:



      (1)    that authorized  States will be encouraged to operate and manage



             the notification process in the same  or  an equivalent manner to



             that  employed  by EPA  in order to  achieve  as  much  national



             uniformity as possible.



      (2)    Section  250.810(c)  which  cites  that  "under  limited   interim



             authorization, States  shall not grant exemptions regarding  who



             must  file notifications, when  notification  must be filed, or what



             information  this notification must  contain."



      (3)    Section 250.820  (a)



      (<*)    Section 250.820(b)(l)(ii)



      (5)    Section 250.820(b)(6)



      (6)    Section 250.823(b)(ll)  which states that "An estimate  of the annual



             amount of  hazardous  waste  handled based  on  the  period  from



             January   1,   1977  to  December  31,   1977."   be  an  ogtionai



             requirement.





                                      -6-

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Based  on the  increase  and  more  uniform enforcement of  hazardous  waste



treatment, storage, and disposal regulations and anticipated standards applicable



to  generators  and  transporters  of  hazardous  wastes,  Browning-Ferris  has



undertaken a more rapid expansion of ts liquid and hazardous waste management



service capability.   We view  the  Resource Conservation  and  Recovery  Act of



1976 as  the  most significant Federal  legislation to date affecting the  waste




systems industry.  Hopefully as the mandates of this legislation  are implemented,



effective, practical, and economically-wise practices for ensuring the protection



of the  public and the environment will be enhanced.






We are pleased to participate in  this hearing  and will likely  submit additional



comments for the official rulemaking record prior to September llth.
                                     -7-

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       RESOURCE CONSERVATION AND RECOVERY ACT








  Proposed Procedures for Preliminary Notification




           of Hazardous Waste Activities








PL 94-580, Section 3010 (40 CFR 250.800, Subpart G)  as




       proposed (43 FR 29907-16, July 11, 1978)
           Comments by Dow Chemical U.S.A.




             San Francisco, California




                  August 24, 1978

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Mr. Chairman:  I am Beckee Beemer, Assistant Manager of




Environmental Services for the Western Division of Dow



Chemical U.S.A.  I wish to present comments pertinent to




the Proposed Procedures for Preliminary Notification of



Hazardous Waste Activities.








These comments reflect our concerns and corporate philosophy



in the proper management of hazardous and solid wastes to




provide adequate protection of human health and the environment.



They summarize our concerns for Section 3010 of RCRA as



proposed which pertain to:








1.   comment closure date



2.   definition of hazardous waste



3.   interpretations of "onsite", "place of operation", and



     "terminal"; notification by a corporation



4.   interpretation of "storage"



5.   information required



6.   reporting impact.

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1.   Comment Closure Date


Our most immediate concern is the premature proposal of


these regulations ahead of other intimately related sections


 (3001, 3004, and 3005).  It was our understanding that the


regulations for the Agency planned to propose the sections


individually, and hold open a collective comment period


at least until 60 days after the last regulation had been


formally proposed.  It was further understood that the


anticipated draft Environmental Impact Statement covering


all of Subtitle C would also be available for comment prior


to closure of any comment period.  The Agency will circumvent


this trust by arbitrarily foreclosing the comment period


for Section 3010 on September 11, 1978.  While we recognize


the sense of urgency exhibited by the Agency in preparing


and printing forms, we behoove the Agency to keep open the

                                                      ci //
collective comment period until at least 60 days after., sections


of the regulations have been proposed.




2.   Definition of Hazardous Waste


It was stated within the supplemental information of the


proposed rules that "It is important to note the definition


of solid waste" and "Hazardous wastes, which are a subset


of all solid wastes ...".  It is obvious to us that the definition


of what constitutes a hazardous waste under Section 3001 and

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what constitutes a permitted hazardous waste management

facility under Sections 3001 and 3005 are crucial to

the interpretation of and comment upon preliminary

notification under Section 3010.



It is impossible to determine at present what is a

"hazardous waste" based on tiie skimpy identification of

the six criteria provided in the proposed notification form,

or from the inferred "listing" under the as yet unproposed

Section 3001.  We request that the Agency defer comment

review of preliminary notification until after Sections 3001,

3004, and 3005 have been proposed.



3.   Interpretations of "Onsite", "Place of Operation",
     and "Terminal"; Notification by a Corporation	

The Agency has made some progress in the recognition of

onsite vs. off-side operations.  The burden of notification

is reduced in part by allowing a single notification for

a "single site"  [250.820 (b) (i)] or for more than one "place

of operation [250.820 (b ( (ii)1.  We commend the Agency in

allowing flexibility in simultaneous notification and

application for  permit.

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                           -4-
The definition of "place of operation" [250.801 (h)],




meaning "a manufacturing, processing, or assembly



establishment; a transportation terminal; of a treatment,




storage, or disposal facility operated by a person at



a single site," appears to exclude warehouses and




commercial establishments.  This also is not evident from



the definition of "terminal" [250.801(m)].  The definition




of "onsite" [250.801(f)] meaning "on the same or geographically




continuous property", should distinguish that the property




can be owned or leased.  These definitions should be



clarified in the final prenotification regulation.








4.   Interpretation of "Storage"



The definition of "storage" incorporated within the



proposed regulations [250.801(1)] is consistent with the




RCRA.  The interpretation of "storage" requiring notification



and permitting if "for more than 90 days" contained in the



supplemental information is not evident.  We contend that




such a 90-day period is unreasonably short and should be



extended to one year.

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                               -5-
    5.    Information  Required

    Several  comments  pertain to  information  required for

/   ^^notification,  particularly identification  numbers

    [250.823 (b) (4) ],  typesof hazardous  waste activity

    [250.823(b)(7)],  and types and descriptions of  hazardous

    waste handled  [250.823 (b) (8), (9)].




    The uses of  the standard industrial classification  (SIC)  and

    the Internal Revenue Service employees  identification number

i/  (EIN)  are oversimplifications/ in the proposed  regulations,

    particularly for  large,  interstate  corporations which may
                                                  UWcA       (=>,
    have  several dozen  "place(s)  of operation"  and^ manufacturing

    several  hundred products.  The use  of a consistent  number

    among all air,  water, wastewater, and solid waste regulations

    would be preferable. The  census file number  (an ll-digit

    number), for example, is already used extensively for enumeratior

    of products  by manufacturing location.




    The types of hazardous  waste activities are to  be defined

    under Sections 3002, 3003,  and 3004. As yet, only 3003

    has been formally proposed and meaningful comment cannot be

    made  except for transport.   It should be emphasized that

    onsite transport  is specifically excluded from  manifesting
                                         -far'inUfhi'Aj)
    and does not require approval as does,interstate commerce.

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                          -6--
Th e types and descriptions of hazardous wastes handled



is the most uncertain of all information proposed for



prenotification.  Since the criteria and listings being




drafted under Section 3001 are not formally proposed,



we must object to several proposed inclusions.  The




requirement that "all wastes which are ignitable, reactive,




infectious, radioactive, or corrosive, must be described



as such" appears to imply testing for all of these criteria.




This would also preclude assumed designation of a waste




as hazardous without test.  We recommend that all criteria




have provision for checking any of five categories:   (a) yes




by test, (b) no by test,  (c) yes by list, (d) assumed hazardous,



or (e) undetermined hazard.  Otherwise there is no basis for




distinction between actual testing and assumed hazard.








6.   Reporting Impact




The Agency requested comment on the estimated impact of



reporting.   We commend the Agency for simplifying notification



and making some provisions for reclassifying a waste as



nonhazardous at some future data [250.823 (b) (8)].  We strongly



disagree, however, with the Agency's contention that "most



of the requested information will be on hand" and "little



time should be needed to prepare the notification response."




This will be true only if the Agency does not choose to



arbitrarily overclassify all industrial wastes as supposedly



"hazardous" because of overly stringent and unrealistic criteria.

-------
                          -7-
The Agency further states that "the greatest burden would

come in those instances where some analysis of waste was

required."  It is our contention that unless all solid

wastes_are assumed to be hazardous, such testing would be

required for all other wastes contested to be nonhazardous

by their generators, but declared hazardous by the Agency

by either criteria or by listing.  There is ~&- substantial
                                     SucJi c~nole,$ole'
economic impact directly attributable to^testing.  Even

if testing was commenced, i; would be virtually impossible

for all solid wastes in the United States to be tested

within the 9Q(£j5.ay notification period for all criteria.

even exclusive of toxicity.  The ISO^jHay period for toxicity

is further unreasonable since the tests presently under

contemplation are unproven, unvalidated, unreasonable, and

excessively costly.




Specific attention is directed to the ambiguities of

notification of a waste as having undetermined hazard.
                                 prtf posed-
It appears within the text of the^regulation  that all

criteria exclusive of toxicity must be  declared within

90 days,and that toxicity must be declared within 180 days

after promulgation of Section 3001 regulations.  This is

also stated within the  specific  instructions  for the

notification form.   There are provisions for  undetermined

hazard designations  however,  for radioactive  and corrosive

on the form itself.   This appears  contrary  to the Agency's


stated intent  and  adds  to  the confusion.

-------
                           -8-
We recommend that provision be  made  to declare within


90 day s^ any or all criteria as  undetermined subject to


future testing.  This would serve  the  intent of the RCRA


:_n identifying potentially hazardous wastes and allow


generators more adequate  time for  testing.   We further


recommend that provision  be made under Section 3010


to contest the designation of any  waste specifically


listed by name or by process under Section  3001 regulations


and declare it to be nonhazardous  as substantiated by &*^u~*. '

          -rrn*1
           the generator.  Further there should be ample


opportunity for public  input to revision of the 3001 listing

                   -C-sU. WA*^      U^<«*
to remove misidentifc*w;-eJ«TrtJTers as^adds^ hazardous wastej.





As a specific example,  the Agency  has  declared "wastewater


treatment sludge containing lead compounds" to be hazardous.

                             m               no
This is scientifically  bad nomenclature witfysubstantiation.


Is it municipal or industrial wastewater?  What is the  treatment?


What lead compounds?  What are  their quantity, concentration


and availability?  What is_ the  hazard?

-------
Confidentiality




The Agency has also requested comment on confidentiality.   We




agree with the first option proposed, that affected parties be




allowed to make confidentiality claims without providing sub-




stantiation at the time of initial notification.  We do not




consider it a burden for EPA to request substantiation at some




future date only as necessary.   The first option would conserve




EPA resources.  The second option would require every claim be




investigated.  We do not believe that a large number of specific




requests for such detailed technical information will be forth-




coming.  We seriously question whether adequate protection of




confidential information can be assured.  Information pertain-




ing to types of wastes, descriptions, and volumes (optional at




present) can be invaluable in a competitive market.  All states




seeking primary responsibility, should be required to provide




protection at least equivalent to the EPA confidentiality



requirement  40 CFR Part 2.








In summary, we feel the Agency has made progress in developing




the notification requirements.  We request consideration of our




comments and particularly request that the comment period be




extended until all hazardous waste regulations are proposed.




Thank you.

-------
           ST4TE OF NEVADA

     DEPARTMENT OF CONSERVATION
        AfJD NATURAL RESOURCES

DIVISION OF ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION

             COMMENTS ON
        ERA'S PROPOSED RULES
               ON THE
     PRELIMINARY NOTIFICATION OF
     HAZARDOUS HASTE ACTIVITIES
                      H, UVERNE ROSSE, P.E,
                      PROGRAM DIRECTOR
                      I'ASTE MANAGEMENT

-------
     I AN VERNE ROSSE, REPRESENTING THE STATE OF ,'!EVADA, DIVISION


OF ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION,   I  APPRECIATE HAVING THIS OPPORTUNITY


TO COMMENT ON THESE PROPOSED RULES FOR PRELIMINARY NOTIFICATION OF


HAZARDOUS WASTE ACTIVITIES,  I HAVE ONLY A FEU COMMENTS,



   :1Y FIRST COMMENT HAS TO DO UITH SECTION 251,320 "WHO MUST FILE


NOTIFICATION",  THIS SECTION is  ONE OF THE MORE IMPORTANT FOR THE


REGULATED COMMUNITY AND SHOULD BE CLEARLY WRITTEN,  THERE IS A


SENTENCE IN THE MIDDLE OF SUBSECTION (A) WITH AT LEAST 80 WORDS IN
                                        AriV \}t^t^
IT.  I FOUND SUBSECTION (A) t&H- CONFUSING AND SUGGEST THAT IT BE


REWRITTEN,   I BELIEVE NOTIFICATIONS BASED ON THE INITIAL 3001


REGULATIONS SHOULD EE SEPARATED  FROM THOSE BASED ON REVISIONS OF


THE 5001 REGULATIONS.  THESE DIFFERENT NOTIFICATIONS SHOULD BE MORE


CLEARLY EXPLAINED.  TllE SECOND SENTENCE OF SUBSECTION (A) IS MISSING


SOMETHING,  I1/HAT IS INTERIM STATUS FOR?  MAYBE IT COULD READ, "THIS
                                                                       n

NOTIFICATION  IS REQUIRED AS ONE OF THE CONDITIONS FOR INTERIM AUTHOR-  3


IZATION FOR ALL PERSONS WHO TREAT, STORE, AND DISPOSE OF HAZARDOUS


WASTE TO LEGALLY CONTINUE THAT ACTIVITY UNTIL APPROPRIATE


ARE ISSUED,"  IN THE FOURTH SENTENCE (YOUR 30-WORDER), THERE NEEDS


TO BE MORE SEPARATION OF NOTIFICATIONS AND FACILITY PERMIT APPLI-


CATIONS.  WHAT  is A GENERATOR OR A TRANSPORTER  IDENTIFICATION CODE?


I EXPECT IT COMES FROM OTHER REGULATIONS, BUT THEY ARE NOT AVAILABLE,


THIS NEEDS MORE EXPLANATION,  UlTHOUT THE PRIVILEGED COMMUNICATION


AND THOUGHTS BEHIND THE WRITING OF THIS SUBSECTION I DON'T HAVE A


SUGGESTED REWRITE, BUT WOULD DISCUSS THIS WITH  THE AUTHOR,

-------
     ilY NEXT COMMENTS HAVE TO DO WITH THE NOTIFICATION FORM,  FlRST,
I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT IT BE REDONE TO FACILITATE KEYPUNCHING FOR
COMPUTER INPUT.  IN SOME STATES THERE WILL BE A GREAT AMOUNT OF
DATA WITH LITTLE TIME AND MONEY FOR REVIEW.  COMPUTERIZATION IS
IMPERATIVE,  FINALLY, I RELIEVE THAT SUBSECTION 11 OF 250,823 SHOULD
NOT BE OPTIONAL BUT A REQUIREMENT,  FURTHER,  THERE SHOULD DC A
SUBSECTION REQUIRING THAT THE NOTIFICATION INDICATE WHAT IS DONE
WITH THE HAZARDOUS WASTE, SUCH AS DISCHARGE TO SEWERS, ON-SITE
                            ,     .off-v^
DISPOSAL, OFF-SITE DISPOSAL (WHERE), ETC,  IT IS IMPORTANT FOR
SEVERAL REASONS TO HAVE THIS INFORMATION FOR A STATE OR FEDERAL
AGENCY,  ONE REASON IS TO REDUCE THE EFFECT OF THE DELAY OF REGULA-
TION PROMULGATION AND PROGRAM DEVELOPMENT,   ANOTHER REASON IS TO
AID THE STATES TO DO THEIR INVENTORIES, ON WHICH THEY CAN BASE THEIR
PROGRAM DEVELOPMENT,
     THIS WILL GET STATE AND FEDERAL AGENCIES INTO "CRADLE TO tr-  'E"
CONTROL OF HAZARDOUS WASTE MORE QUICKLY IF WE CAN GET THE INVEN" - ::S
OUT OF THE WAY AT THE SAME TIME THE NOTIFICATION IS DONE,
     THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO COMMENT.

-------
ft

  Hcuktf&Js
             f  /
               a
4
                            a

          S  \Qndu s^Lt^)

-------
 TUESDAY, JULY 11, 1978
       PART IV
ENVIRONMENTAL
  PROTECTION
    AGENCY
    PRELIMINARY
 NOTIFICATION OF
HAZARDOUS WASTE
    ACTIVITIES
   Proposed Procedures

-------
29908
                                                PROPOSED RULES
[6560-01]

   ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION
              AGENCY

           [40 CFR Port 250]

             [FRL 896-8]

PRELIMINARY NOTIFICATION OF HAZARDOUS
           WASTE ACTIVITIES

AGENCY:  Environmental  Protection
Agency,

ACTION- Proposed rules'

SUMMARY'  These proposed rules set
forth the procedures for preliminary
notification of hazardous waste activi-
ties  They define administrative proce-
dures  under  which  States  may  be
granted the authority to receive notifi-
cations of  hazardous waste activities,
and  they specify  the procedures for
filing  such  notifications  by  persons
conductvng hazardous waste activities
The Environmental Protection Agency
(KPA) is proposing rules in order to fa-
cilitate notification of hazardous waste
activities for both those persons who
must file notifications and those who
will receive them.

DATES' All comments  received on or
before September 11, 1978, will be con-
sidered by the Agency before  taking
action on the proposed rules.

              HEARING

  Oral or written comments may be
submitted at  the  public hearings on
these proposed rules.
  The  hearings  are  scheduled  for
August 21, 1978, at the Holiday Inn-
Airport,   1-26 and  West  Aviation
Avenue,  Charleston,  S C ,  803-744-
1621; August  18, 1978, at the Cleveland
Plaza  Hotel, Euclid  at  East  12th
Street, Cleveland, Ohio. 216-696-6KOO,
and  August 24, 1978, at the  EPA Re-
gional Office, 215 Fremont Street, San
Francisco,  Calif.,  415 -556-6695   Re-
quests  to  participate  in  the  public
hearings should  be directed  to  Mrs
Gerri Wyer, Public Participation Offi-
cer,  Office of Solid Waste (WH-562),
U S      Environmental    Pi election
Agency.  Washington, DC.  20460, 202-
755-9157. Registration for each hear-
ing will  be held  between 1230  and 1
pm  The hearings will be held  from 1
to 6 p m There will also be an evening
session in San Francisco beginning at
1 30 p.m

ADDRESSES  Comments  should  be
submitted  to  Deputy  Assistant  Ad-
ministrator for Solid Waste (WH-562),
U S      Environmental    Protection
Agency, Washington, D.C, 20460, Com-
munications should  identify the legu-
latory docket  or notice number, which
is 3010 for these proposed lules
  The official record for this rulemak-
ing is located  in Room 211 ID. US En-
vironmental Protection Agency, 401 M
Street SW ,  Washington, D C. 20460.
and  is ava lable  for viewing from  9'
am   to   4   p m,  Monday  through
Friday, excluding holidays

FOR   FURTHER   INFORMATION
CONTACT'

  Mr  Timothy Fields, Jr., Hazardous
  Waste  Managment Division, Office
  of Solid Waste  (WH-565\ U.S. Envi-
  ronmenta  Protection Agency, Wash-
  ington, D C  20460. 202-755-9206.

SUPPLEMENTARY INFORMATION
Subtitle C cf the Solid Waste Disposal
Act, as amended by the Resource Con-
servation  a id Recovery Act of  1976
(Pub  L  94 580), creates a regulatory
framework to control hazardous waste.
Congress  has found that  such  waste
presents   "special dangers  to  health
and requires,  a greater degree of regu-
lation  than  does nonhazardous  solid
waste" (sec   1002(b)(5))  Because  of
the seriousness of this waste problem,
Congress  intended that the States de-
velop programs  to  control  it. In the
event that Elates do not choose to op-
erate this progr^rn,  EPA is mandated
to do so.
  This rule  s one of a series of seven
being developed  and proposed under
Subtitle  C to implement the hazard-
ous waste management program  It is
important to note  the  definition  of
solid waste  (sec. 1004(27))  which en-
compasses garbage,  refuse, sludges and
other  discaided  materials,  including
liquids,   semi-solids,   and  contained
gases (v. ith  a few  exceptions),  from
both municipal and industiial sources.
Hazardous wastes, which are a subset
of all solid  wastes  and which will  be
identified or  listed by regulations pro-
mulgated uniler section 3001, are those
which have particularly significant im-
pacts on  public health and  the  envi-
ronment
  Subtitle C  creates  a  management
control system which for those wastes
defined as hazardous, requires "cradle-
to-grave" cognizance, including appro-
priate  monitoring,  recordkeeping and
leporting thtoughout the system. Sec-
tion  3001  requurs EPA to d°fme crite-
ria and  methods for  identifying and
listing hazardous wastes  Those wastes
which  are identified or  listed as haz-
ardous by those mrans are then  in-
cluded  in tie   management control
system   cons tructed   undei   sections
3002-3006 anj 3010  Those that are ex-
cluded will be subject to the tequire-
ments for nonhazardous  solid  waste
being carried out by States  uider Sub-
title D undei which open aumpmg is
prohibited and  environmentally  ac-
ceptable  practices are required
  Section 3002 addresses the  standards
applicable to generators  EPA's regula-
tions under this  section  define gener-
ators to  excljde  individual homeown-
ers and othe-s who, due to  the small
quantities of  hazardous  wastes which
they produce  do not pose a significant
threat to human health or  the  envi-
ronment.  These  persons  are not  re-
quired to submit notifications  under
section  3010  Section  3002 also  re-
quires the  creation  of  a  manifest
system which will  track wastes  from
the point of generation to  their ulti-
mate disposition.
  Section  3003 addresses standards  af-
fecting   transporters   of   hazardous
wastes to assure  that wastes are care-
fully  managed during the  transport
phase. The Agency is exploring oppor-
tunlties for meshing closely  with pro-
posed and current U S. Department of
Transportation (DOT) regulations to
avoid duplication in this area
  Section  3004 addresses standards  af-
fecting owners and  operators of haz-
ardous waste storages treatment, and
disposal   facilities.  These  standards
define the levels of environmental pro-
tection to be achieved by these facili-
ties and provide the  criteria against
which EPA  (or  State) officials  will
measure applications for permits   Fa-
cilities on a generator's  property  as
well as off-site facilities are covered by
these regulations and do require per-
mits,  generators  and  transporters  do
not otherwise need permits.  It should
be noted  that  only active  hazardous
waste treatment, storage, and disposal
facility owners and operators are  re-
quired to notify.
  Section  3005 regulations describe  the
scope  and  coverage  of  the   actual
permit-granting   process  for facility
owners  and  operators. Requirements
for the permit application  as well as
for the issuance  and revocation proc-
ess are to be defined by these regula-
tions. Section 3005(e)  provides for  in-
terim status during  the  tune period
that the Agency  or the States are  re-
viewing the  pending  permit applica-
tions
  Section -3006 requires EPA to issue
guidelines for State programs and pro-
cedures  by  which  States  may seek
both  full  and interim authorization to
carry out the hazardous  waste pro-
gram in lieu of the  EPA-admirustered
program  States seeking authorization
in accordance with .section 3006  guide-
lines  need to demonstrate  that  their
hazardous waste management regula-
tions  are  consistent with and equiva-
lent in effect to  EPA  regulations as a
condition for receiving EPA authoriza-
tion under section 3006 to operate and
enforce a hazardous  waste manage-
ment program
  Section 3010  requues  any  person
geuerat mg,  transporting,  owning,  or
operating a facility  for storage, treat-
ment, nnd disposal of hazardous waste
to notify EPA of this  activity within
90 days after promulgation or revision
of regulations identifying and listing a
hazardous waste pursuant  to section
3001.  No  hazardous waste  subject to
Subtitle  C regulation may  be legally
transported,  treated,  stored, or   dis-
posed after the  90-day period  unless
                               FEDERAL REGISTER, VOL. 43, NO.  133—TUESDAY, JULY 11, 1978

-------
                                                 PROPOSED RULES
                                                                                                             29909
this timely  notification is given  to
EPA or an authorized State during the
above 90-day period
  Thp.se proposed rules define the pro-
cedures for Riving notification under
section  3010 and also  establish proce-
dures /or  authorizing thp States to re-
ceive such notifications
  A cross reference of the numbered
sections of the act to the sub-part des-
ignations  to be used in the regulations
is presented in Table A
  U> Subpart A— Section 3001,  Standards
for  Criteria,  Identification, and  Listing of
Hazardous Waste
  (2) Subpart B -Section 3002,  Standards
Applirablo to  Generators  of   Hazardous
Waste
  (3) Subpart C— Section 3003,  Standards
Applicable to Transporters of  Hazardous
Waste
  <4) Subpart D- Section 3004.  Standards
Applicable to Owners and Operators of Haz-
ardous Waste Treatment, Storage, and Dis-
posal Facilities
  (5) Subpart E— Section 3005, Permits  for
Treatment, Storage, or Disposal of Hazard-
ous Waste
  (6) Subpart P- Section  3006, Guidelines
for  Authorized State Hazardous Waste Pro-
grams
  (7) Subpart G- Section 3010. Preliminary
Notification of Hazardous Waste Activities

  RELATIONSHIP TO OTHER SUBTITLE C
            REGULATIONS

  The .statutory intent  of  these pro-
posed rules is to assure  that all per-
sons who at (he time these regulations
are   promulgat ed,  are  generating,
transporting,  ti rating,  storing, or dis-
posing of hazardous wastes identified
or  listed under section  3001 regula-
tions notify  EPA or  an  authorized
State of these  activities The section
3001  regulations  and  the regulations
under sections  3002, 3003, 3004, and
3005 are scheduled to  be promulgated
concurrently  in  late   1978   and will
become  effectne 180  days after pro-
mulgation  During the first 90 days of
this time period, all persons subject to
thfsr rulos  must notify ctlhcr F.'PA or
an authorized State pursuant to these
rule1? Within the 180-day period, those
persons  requned to obtain  a facility
permit  pursuant  to the  section  3005
regulations  must  appl.v to EPA  or  an
authonzed  State for a  permit.  Satis-
faction  of these two requirements  by
persons  owning  or operating  existing
facilities requiring a  facility  permit
will qualify them for  interim status
until a permit is issued Failure to sat-
isfy both  requirements  will  prevent
such persons from legally treating, dis-
posing.  or  storing (for more than  90
davs) hazardous waste after  the 180-
day period  Satisfaction of the notifi-
cation requirement  by all  other per-
sons subject to  these rules  will enable
them to legally transport or store (for
less than 90  days) hazardous  waste
after the 180-day period. Accordingly,
notification pursuant to these rules Is
required by all persons who generate,
transport,  treat, store, or  dispose  of
identified or listed hazardous waste.
  Failure to comply with this regula-
tion can result in civil and/or criminal
penalties of as much as $25,000 a day
for each day of violation. Any person
who knowingly makes a  false state-
ment or representation in filing notifi-
cation   of   hazardous  waste  activity
shall, upon conviction, be subject to a
fine of not more  than $25,000,  or to
imprisonment not to exceed 1 year, or
both.
  Section 3001 regulations will  prob-
ably be  revised from  time  to  time to
identify or list additional  hazardous
waste.  Section 250.821 of this regula-
tion requires  that  generators, trans-
porters, treaters, storers, and disposers
of these wastes notify EPA or an au-
thorized State 90 days after such revi-
sion. (Persons unaffected by a revision
need  not  submit  additional  notifica-
tion.)  In  addition, affected  persons
may be required under section 3005 to
apply  for  a new or a revised facility
permit  before the revised section  3001
regulation becomes effective (180  days
after promulgation).  To  reduce  the
burden of notification, those  persons
who must  both notify and apply for a
new or a revised  facility permit  may
accomplish notification with their ap-
plication for a new or a revised facility
permit,  provided   the  application is
submitted  within  the first  90  days
after promulgation of the revised sec-
tion 3001 regulations.
  Generators  and  transporters  who
must both notify and obtain an identi-
fication  code  pursuant to  revisions in
section 3001 may  accomplish notifica-
tion with  their submission of the in-
formation  required to obtain the iden-
tification code, provided that the In-
formation  is submitted within the first
90 days  after  promulgation of the re-
vised section 3001 regulations.
  Section 3010 requires an  inventory
of all  persons generating, transport-
ing,  treating,  storing, ur disposing of
hazardous waste identified or listed in
the section 3001  regulations  or  revi-
sions thereof on the date of their pro-
mulgation.  Consequently,  all  persons
who carry out such activities on the
date of  promulgation  of  the section
3001 regulations or revisions  thereof
are required  to not;fy. Persons  who
initiate such  activities after the  date
of promulgation of the  section  3001
regulations or  revisions  thereof  are
not  required  to  notify  pursuant  to
these  rules, However, these  persons
(new  entrants) will  be  required  to
notify  EPA or an authorized State of
their hazardous waste activities pursu-
ant  to  the sections 3002, 3003, and
3005  regulations  promulgated under
Subtitle C. Briefly,  this moans  that
persons who begin to treat, dispose, or
store (for more than 90 davs) hazard-
ous wastes, must apply for a permit In
accordance  with section 3005 regula-
tions, and persons who  generate and/
or transport hazardous waste have re-
sponsibility   for  preparing and  han-
dling a manifest pursuant  to sections
3002  and  3003, respectively,  which
serves to notify EPA or the authorized
State of  such  activity.  All  new en-
trants will be assigned a unique identi-
fication number.

        NOTIFICATION PBOCESS

  These  proposed  rules specify  who
must file  notification  of  hazardous
waste activity, when and where notifi-
cation must be filed and what such no-
tification must  contain.  These  pro-
posed rules  also contain a suggested
sample  form for use in  filing notifica-
tion (see Table  I).  Use  of the sample
form is not mandatory, but its use  is
encouraged  to facilitate the  notifica-
tion process.
  To assist  in complying  with  these
rules, EPA  Intends to mail a sample
form and  instructions  to  all  known
persons  who  may  be  required  to
notify.  EPA will also encourage au-
thorized States  to use a similar proce-
dure Failure of the Agency or the au-
thorized State to reach any affected
person will  not,  however, relieve that
person  of the  legal  requirement  to
notify.
  After receiving a notification,  EPA
intends to mail a facility permit appli-
cation form  to those persons believed
to require a facility permit under sec-
tion 3005. EPA will also encourage au-
thorized States  to do  the  same. The
failure  of the Agency or the author-
ized State to reach  any of these affect-
ed  persons  will  not, however,  relieve
that person  of  the legal requirement
to apply for a permit. To alleviate the
second mailing, consideration is being
given to including  the facility  permit
application   in   the  mailing  of  the
sample notification form and Instruc-
tions Those persons who are required
to both notify and apply for  a facility
permit could therefore elect to comply
with both requirements simultaneous'
ly.

 AUTHORIZATION OF STATES To RECEIVE
            NOTIFICATIONS

  These  proposed rules establish pro-
cedures for  authorizing States to re-
ceive notifications. These rules are
being proposed  and will also be pro-
mulgated before the section  3001 and
other concurrent regulations in order
to  give  the  States  opportunity  to
obtain authorisation before promulga-
tion of the  section  3001  regulations
starts the 90-day notification period.
EPA and the authorized States  must
be ready to receive notifications when
the  section 3001 regulations are pro-
mulgated A list of the State agencies
authorized to receive notifications will
be published in the FEDERAL  REGISTER
                                FEDERAL REGISTER, VOL 43, NO. 133—TUESDAY, JULY 11, 1978

-------
29910
                                                PROPOSED RULES
prior to or at the time of promulgation
of the section 3001 regulations or revi-
sions thereof
  States will be authorized to receive
notifications  under   the limited  au-
thorization  provisions of section 3010.
This will be called "limited interim au-
thorisation" and  if  granted,  v. ill  be
granted separate and apart  from the
"interim or  full authorizations" grant-
ed  under section 3006, and without
regard to whether the State receives
an inteum or full authorization under
section 3006. These limited interim au-
thorizations are intended  to enable
the States to receive the "initial" noti-
fications—those to be received during
the  90-days following  the  promulga-
tion of  the  section 3001 regulations-
even  though  they   have  not  been
granted an  interim or  full authoriza-
tion under  section 3006  Few, if any.
States  will  receive interim or full au-
thorization  under section 3006  before
or during the said 90-day period, yet it
is  EPA's policy to allow those  States
that are likely to be  granted such au-
thorization  to also be granted the au-
thority  to  manage  the notification
process
  It is important to note that notifica-
tion required subsequent to this initial
notification process as a result of revi-
sions to section 3001  regulations, when
not administered by  the EPA Regions.
shall be  conducted  only  by  States
having  section  3006  authorization
Limited  interim  authorization, there-
fore, is a one-time authonzat ion whirh
terminates on the dale  6 months after
the date of promulgation of the sec-
tion 3001 regulations
  If  a State whirh has been granted
limited  interim authorization  fails  to
apply for, or receive interim or full au-
thorization, EPA must  assume respon-
sibility  for  managing the subsequent
regulatory requnements of subtitle  C.
this disjointed program administration
can  create  problems, e g , in efficient
processing of applications lor facility
permits which are received during the
6-month period  following  piomulga-
tion of the section 3001  regulations
  To minimise  such potential prob-
lems, these  proposed   rules  impose
three  requirements  upon  Si airs   in
order to obtain a limited  interim au-
thorization. These requirements are  as
follows
  1  In its request foi  limited interim
authorization, the Slate must declare
its  Intent to  apply for an  interim  or
full authorization before or during the
90-day period following the promulga-
tion of the section 3001  regulations
  2.  At  EPA's request,  the State must
provide EPA with the information re-
ceived through notification so that the
Agency,  if  necessary,  can  el fectively
carry out  the subsequent  regulatory
activities of subtitle C
  3.  In  its request for  limited interim
authorization, the State must provide
for making facility permit application
forms availab e to prospective permit-
tees identified in the notification proc-
ess
  Further, th? authorized States will
be encouraged to operate and manage
the notificaticn process in the same or
an  equivalent  manner  to that  em-
ployed by EP\ in order to achieve as
much national  uniformity as  possible.
This  will  simplify  the  notification
burden  on  those  persons who may
have to notify for hazardous waste ac-
tivities  carried out in  two or  more
States  The manner in which the State
intends to carry  out  the  notification
process will be articulated in  the plan
that a  State  submits  as  part of its re-
quest for limited  interim  authoriza-
tion. The degree of equivalency with
EPA's management of the process will
be  one  of the  criteria used to deter-
mine whether to grant authorization.

    HAZARDOUS WASTE DEFINITION

  If a State is granted limited interim
authorization by  EPA to manage the
notification piogram, all persons (gen-
erators, transporters, treaters, storers,
and disposers) that are affected  by the
section  3001  regulations  identifying
and listing ha2,ardous waste will be re-
quired  to  notily that State. If a State
hazardous waste  definition  is  more
stringent   than   that   promulgated
under  section 3001 regulations, then
the applicable State agency could use
this definition for the purpose of noti-
fication by  affected  persons in that
State.  State  hazardous waste  defini-
tions  which  are   less stringent than
that promulgated pursuant to section
3001 regulations  cannot be  used for
notification purposes.

     CONFIDENTIALITY PROVISIONS
  The Freedom of  Information  Act  (5
ILS.C.  552) includes a provision under
which trade secrets and commercial or
financial information  may be exempt-
ed front public disclosure. The Agency
believes that  similar  provisions  in
States'  "Trade Secret Acts" or "Public
Records Acts" make a significant con-
tribution to securing the confidence of
t he regulated  community  since  this
legislation assures th'at information
submitted  to  the  State  regulatory
agency  will be adequately safeguarded.
State legislation  of this type will not
be  requn ed  for  authorization  to
handle   the  notification  program.
States  should be aware, nevertheless,
that provisions for  the safeguarding of
confidential information aie an  impor-
tant part  of  an effective State regula-
tory program and that the protection
of this  type of information may be es-
sential  to winning the  confidence of
the regulated community
  With  respect to notifications submit-
ted  to EPA,  these  proposed  rules
would  allow  affected persons to make
confidentiality claims  in three areas of
their notification  responses* (a)  types
of hazardous waste handled, as identi-
fied  by criteria under section 3001 reg-
ulations, (b)  description of hazardous
wastes handled, and identified by list-
ing under section  3001  regulations,  or
by  general type,  and (c) estimated
amount of hazardous wastes handled
annually (optional item).
  Comments  are requested from  inter-
ested parties as to which  notification
items should  provide for  a confiden-
tiality claim,  and reasons why  each
such item should  be considered  confi-
dential.
  EPA is considering requiring affect-
ed parties to provide substantiation of
their confidentiality claims at the time
of initial  notification.  There are two
options.
  The first option Is  the one in  these
proposed rules Affected parties would
be  allowed  to  make  confidentiality
claims without providing  substantia-
tion at the time of initial notification.
If a  request for information submitted
was  made  later, EPA would  then re-
quest that the affected person(s) pro-
vide substantiation of  confidentiality
claim(s)  in  accordance with  40  CFR
Part 2, Subpart B. If  there are a large
number of  requests  from  the public
for copies  of notifications, there will
be  a burden  on  the  EPA  regional
office resources to request substantia-
tion from each submitter.
  The second  option  is  designed  to
avoid that problem  by requiring sub-
mission of substantiation  at  the time
of initial notification  EPA would not
have to go back to submitters again if
requests were received  by EPA for no-
tification  responses containing  confi-
dentiality claims. However, this would
place an  additional  initial  reporting
buidPn upon affected parties.
  Comments are requested on these or
other options  for the  confidentiality
provisions  In addition, suggestions on
ways of making the notification  items
reasonably  accessible  to  the  public
would be appreciated
  It  should be noted that EPA plans to,
provide for separation of potentially
confidential and nonconfidential noti-
fication items in the  final  regulations.
Separate sheets of paper shall be sub-
mitted by  affected persons for  Inclu-
sion of confidential information.

          REPORTING  IMPACT

  EPA considers  the information re-
quired by these rules to be the  mini-
mum necessary to effectively adminis-
ter  the  notification program.  Since
most of the requested information will
be  on  hand,  little  time   should  be
needed  to prepare the  notification re-
sponse  The  greatest  burden would
come in those instances  where  some
analysis of waste was required. Howev-
er, since  this information is  also re-
quired to  comply with other regula-
tions under the act, it is not a report-
                               FEDEKAL REGISTER, VOL. 43, NO. 133—TUESDAY, JULY 11, 1978

-------
ing burden imposed  bv these regula-
tions atone  Comments from interested
parties  on  the  estimated  reporting
impact  of  the.se  proposed regulations
will   be  appreriated   A   reporting
imi-act  analysis is being conducted in
support of these and other subtitle C
regiUiiJioiis

ECONOMIC AND ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS

  In accordance with  Executive Orders
12044 and 11821. as  amended by  Ex-
fX'utivo  Order 11949,  and OMB Circu-
lar A-107 and EPA policy as stipulated
in 39 FR 37439,  October 21.  1974, re-
spectively, analyses  of economic and
environmental impacts are being per-
formed  for the entirrt} of subtitle C.
hazaidous  waste  management, but  are
not vet  completed Any additional eco-
nomic impact on (he public  resulting
from  implementation of this regula-
tion is expected  to be negligible since
notification is required only  once, and
is primarily an  administrative  proce-
dure
  Dalcd  July 3, 1978

                   BARBARA Bi VM,
              Acting Administrator

  Title  40,  CPU, Part 250  would be
amended by adding  a suhpart G con-
sisting of § 250 800 250 823 as follows

 PART 250— HAZARDOUS WASTE GUIDELINES
           AND REGULATIONS
250 800  Sropr and purpose
250801  Definitions
250 810  Limited interim authon/^tion
250811  Application oioredlurs for Stales
250 812  Responsibilities  and nulhontv  of
    ihr EPA Rcitional Administrator
250 820  Who must file notification
250 B21  When to file notification
250 822  Where to file notification
250 *23  Information required in  notifica-
    tion

  AUTHORITY Re<- 2002(a)U\ Pub  L  94-
5HO 90 Stat 2804<42USC  6912) and Soc
30JOi;u  Pub L  94-580,  90 Stat 2812 <42
USC 6930)

§ 2r>0 800  Sropr and purpose

  (a) Section 3010 of the Solid  Wa-ste
Disposal Act.  a* amended by the Rc-
souice Conset \ation and Recovery Act
of 1976 (42 U S C  6930). requires that
any pei son generating or transporting.
or owning or ope rat ing a facility  for
treatment, stoiagc, or disposal of  haz-
ardous waste, must notify the Admin-
istrator or authorised State not later
than 90 dajs after promulgation or ic-
vfion  of  regulations  under  section
3001
  (b)  These   rules  specify  m more
detail  v. ho must  file  notification  of
hazardous w a Mr  acl nrit v.  \v hen  and
where notification must be  filed, and
what such notification must contain
  (c) In addition, these rules establish
the  means by  which State govern-
          PROPOSED RULES

ments that are developing and/or im-
plementing hazardous waste manage-
ment programs may receive notifica-
tion  from  affected persons  within
their jurisdictions.

§2.">!)N01  Definitions
  For the purpose of this part
  (a)  The term "disposal of hazardous
waste" means  the  discharge, deposit,
injection, dumping, spilling,  leaking,
or placing of any hazardous waste into
or on any land or water so that such
waste or any constituent  thereof may
enter the environment or be emitted
into  the  air or  discharged into  any
waters, including ground waters.
  (b)  The term  "hazardous  waste"
means any solid waste defined as haz-
ardous under subpart A of this part
  (c) The term  "ha/.ardous waste activ-
ity" means the handling of hazardous
waste vja the  generation, transporta-
tion, treatment, storage, or disposal  of
any hazardous waste
  (d)  The term "hazardous uaste gen-
eration"  means the act or process  of
producing a hazardous waste
  
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29912
                                                 PROPOSED RULES
such  authorisations end  on the date
six months after regulations  are first
promulgated under section 3001 of the
act

§ 25ft.HI 1  Application   procedures   for
    State*.
  (a) Slates -seeking limited interim au-
thorization  for  section   3010  must
make a written application to the  ap-
propriate EPA Regional Administrator
containing the following items
  (DA statement of the State's intent
to apply for  interim or full authoriza-
tion  under  section  3006  before  or
during the 90 day period following the
promulgation of the section 3001 regu-
lations
  (2) A plan for implementation by the
State, in coordination  with the EPA
Region, of section  3010 requirements,
including plans for informing affected
persons  of the notification  require-
ments,  for  furnishing  to the EPA
names and addresses of persons whom
the  State  reasonably  believes have
failed to comply with notification reg-
ulations  and for analyses of the data
received  from affected persons.
  (3)  A  statement  of agreement to
maintain files and any information re-
ceived from  notification  for 3  years
af(,er  receipt of notification,  and to
make available any such notification
information to the EPA in accordance
with requests from the EPA Regional
Administrator,
  (4) A plan of implementation  by the
State, in coordination  with the EPA
Region,  for  providing  notice to the
public and to those prospective  per-
mittees identified  in the notification
process of  the facility permit require-
ments and of the availabthtv of the fa-
cility  permit  applications  forms  The
plan  shall include provisions  for the
State's  receipt and processing of all
permit applications submitted
  (b)  States seeking  limited  interim
authorization must file the above writ-
ten applications not later than sixtv
(60) calendar days  after promulgation
of these notification regulations.

§ 250 812  Responsibilities and authority of
    the EPA Hopnin.il Administrator.
  (a) The EPA Regional Administrator
shall  have the authority to  grant or
withhold  limited   interim  authoriza-
tion
  (b) The EPA Regional Administrator
shall  consider each State application
for limited interim authorization If an
application does not meet all require-
ments of |25081Ha) (1)  and (3). the
Regional   Administrator  shall  not
grant limited interim authorization  If
the Regional Administrator is not sat-
isfied that the State-proposed plans in
§250811(a) (2) and (4) are adequate
for implementation  of  section 3010,
he/she shall withhold limited interim
authorization
  (c) If the Regional Administrator de-
termines that a State application is
unsatisfactory,  he/.she  shall  inform
that State in writing of the reasons
within 15 working davs of receipt of
the application  The  Regional Admin-
istrator may  then allow that State to
submit another application within 15
working days fr»r EPA consideration.
  (d)  If  the  Regional Administrator
finds  a State application acceptable,
he/she  shall  execute  an agreement
with that State, signed by the Region-
al Administrate r and  an official  of the
responsible Sta;e agency, granting lim-
ited  interim  aathoi ization to  imple-
ment  section  ISO 10 requirements All
such agreemen.s shall be effective no
later than 120 calendar days after pro-
mulgation of these pieliminary  notifi-
cation regulaticns and shall terminate
on the  effective date of  the section
3001 regulations (6 months after pro-
mulgation)

§250.820  Who must file notification
  (a) Every  person conducting  a haz-
ardous waste  activity at the time of
promulgation  or  revision of section
3001 regulations must file notification
in accordance with these  regulations
This  notification constitute& one of
the conditions for interim status  for
all persons who treat, store, and dis-
pose of hazardous waste  Owners of in-
active  hazardous  waste  treatment,
storage, and disposal  facilities are not
required  to notify Those persons who
must  both not fy  and either seek  a
generator or a  transporter identifica-
tion code or  apply for a  new or a re-
vised  facility permit  pursuant to revi-
sion  of  section  3001  regulations may
accomplish  not if ication  with  either
the submission  of the information re-
quired for the respective identification
code, or with th*; submission  of the ap-
plication for a now or a levised facility
permit,  provided such  information  is
submitted  within  the first  90 days
after  promulgation of the revised sec-
tion 3001 regulations Further  defini-
tion of what is a hazardous waste, who
is a generator;  who  is a transporter,
and who is an cwnfr or operator of  a
tieatment, storage or disposal facility
is given  in  reg ulations  promulgated
under sections ilOOl,  3002, 3003, 3004,
and 3005 of the act.
  (b) Special cases—(1)  Corporations.
A responsible individual of the  corpo-
ration shall file  notification.
  (u A group of establishments, plants,
transportation terminals, etc , located
at a single site under  the ownership or
operation of  one person  may   file  a
single notification.
  (u)  A person  owning and  operating
more  than one p>lace  of operation may
file a single notification for all  facili-
ties provided.
  (A)  All required information is clear-
ly stated separately for each place of
operation, and
  (B>  Copies of the pertinent informa-
tion in this single notification are sent
to each EPA  Regional Office (or au-
thorized  State)   having  jurisdiction
over the area in which the places of
operation are located
  (2) Highway transporters A respon-
sible individual  shall  file  notification
for  each  terminal  the  transporter
owns and  utilizer  for  vehicles trans-
porting hazardous wastes,
  (3) Railroad or pipeline companies
A  responsible  individual  may file  a
single  notification  for  the entire  rail
line  or pipeline,  provided  that copies
of this notification are sent  to each
EPA Regional Office  (or  authorized
State)   having jurisdiction  over  the
area in which the railroad or  pipeline
is located.
  (4) Federal agencies conducting haz-
ardous  waste activities must  comply
with all notification requirements In
the same manner as other persons
  (5)  Federal on-scene coordinators,
when acting in  their official capacity
under  the  provisions of section 311 of
the Federal Water  Pollution  Control
Act, and the national oil  and  hazard-
ous  substance pollution  contingency
plan, are not included under  the re-
quirements of these regulations
  (6) These regulations do  not apply to
persons who transport hazardous  ma-
terials which have been spilled.

§ 250 821  When to file notification.
  (a)  Persons  conducting hazardous
waste activities at the time of  promul-
gation or revision of Section 3001 regu-
lations ("hazardous  waste identifica-
tion and listing")  must file  notifica-
tions not later than ninety (90)  days
after promulgation  or  revision of  sec-
tion 3001 regulations.
  (b)  Any  person conducting  hazard-
ous waste activities at the  time of  pro-
mulgation or  revision of section  3001
regulations who does not file notifica-
tion of such activity within 90 days of
the,date of this promulgation or revi-
sion is in  violation of these notifica-
tion regulations and may be subject to
the penalties  described under section
3008 of  the  act  No hazardous waste
may be legally  transported,  treated,
stored, or  disposed unless  notification
has  been  made  It should be noted
that late notification  is a  violation of
section 3010 and subjects  such person
to possible enforcement action

§ 250 822  Where to file notification,
  (a)  Persons must  file  notifications
with  the  appropriate  EPA Regional
Administrator or State which has been
granted limited interim authorization.
Copies of the pertinent notification in-
formation  shall be  sent to each  EPA
Regional Administrator or designated
State  agency in  which the  person's
places of operation are located
  (b) Persons  owning or operating sev-
eral places of operation should refer to
§250820(b)
  (c) A list of names and  addresses of
all State agencies granted the limited
                                FEDERAL REGISTER, VOL. 43, NO. 133—TUESDAY, JULY 11, 197B

-------
                                                 PROPOSED RULES
                                                                                                            29913
interim authorization to recme notifi-
cations will be published in the FFDER-
AL REGISTER before or  at  th^  tir^ of
promulgation of section  3001 regula-
tions.

§ 250 S2-1  Information required in  notifica-
   tion
  fa) if a pet son fuHy  and accurately
completes  and returns  the form pre-
sentrd in these regulations (see table
I)  for ea^h place of  operation,  the
person ui'l h-uc cornpJiod  with the re-
quirements cf §250823 of thoso regu-
lations   Persons  util'zmq  this  form
mav submit additional  information or
documents  a.s a part of the  notifica-
tion submission
  (b) If a person chooses not to u^e the
form, that per on must fi!" a  written
rtotifirnticn .sfa'jnR rlcarjy and lesibJy
the  fol'ou ii.tf  uilormation (for each
place of oprrn'ion)
  fI)  The  mn~>e cf the  oigan:zation
and place of oprraMnn
  (2) The ma.I'rg address and location
of the place of cneration
  (3)  The   pnnc'pal artiuty  of  the
p'aie of operation, nthrr 1 > four-d,p]t
standard mdur,*.n?J cIa-- )
  (4) An identif,"ation number for the
place of operation
  (i) If a person has an Internal  Reve-
nue  Service  employer  id^nt1 fixation
numb"i  (EIN),  this number  shall  be
provided
  (n)  A  person  uho or* ra'es  mo;e
than  ore p'a-^ of  opera1 -^n w:lh  Ihe
same FTI for a'l <;^aH df.)p"intc a sep-
arate F-ifftx to tf-c r:W to d'imej.sh
each  plarc of operation  (e g,  (EIN
No ) -2, (EIN No )-3)
  (ui>  Federal  fa^iliti^s shall  provide
the General Services Administration
ageno and facility number
  dv) Transporters shall provide their
Interstate    Commerce   Commission
number  however,  if a tiansporter does
not have such a number, he/she shall
proude his/her Public Utilities  Com-
mission  nui.ibor,  or  other  permit
number (as assigned by State Health
Department, etc )
  (v) AIJ notifiers shall state the spe-
cific sources (IRS,  ICC,  etc.) of the
identification number
  (vi) If a person does not have an al-
ready assigned identification number.
this fact shall be stated. An identifica-
tion number will then be assigned by
EPA (or  the designated State agoncv.)
  (5)  The  name, telephone  number,
and address of a responsible individual
at the place of operation who could be
contacted for clarification  of  informa-
tion submrtfed in the notification
  (6)  The  following statement,  with
.signature,  name,  title, and  date  "I
hereby  certify  that  the  information
provided herein  is comple'e  and cor-
rect tq the best of mv knowledge  I un-
dei~tand that all information in this
notification may  be  made available to
the public, unless otherwise noted, ac-
coidmg to  §250823  (b) (10), I am au-
thon/ed  to sign official documents for
my organization "
  (7) The tvpe (.s) of hazardous wa^te
activity conducted by th° person, le,
generation,  transportation, treatment,
storage,  or  disposal  of   hazardous
waste. Treatment, storage, or disposal
activities  conducted  at the  site  of
waste generation shall be indicated as
"onsite  treatment,"  etc  Persons who
transport hazardous  waste shall indi-
cate th^  mode  (air. rail,  highway,
\\afer. etc ) of transportation
  (8) The  tjpes  of fuc'ardou.s waste
handled by the person, as identified by
c,V,,er,a ur.dei section 3001 icg'ilations
Ail war,'^  which are ignitable.  teae-
tr.e, infectjoin.  ratf;'?ariojve,  or corro-
sive must be described as such  Howev-
er,  person.'; who carr.ot in the 90-day
period  allowed  definitively  determine
whether  their wastrs are toxic may so
indicate.  If. after the 90-day period,  it
is  determined that a waste is  non-
toxic, a statement to this effect  must
be filed no  later than 180 days  after
promulgation of section  3001 regula-
tions  Otherwise,  the person will be
considered for  notification  purposes,
to be conducting hazardous waste ac-
tivities   If.  at  some  future date, &
person  determines that  his  waste is
not  hazardous  according  to section
3001  regulations or  if  he  ceases to
handle hazardous «.a,ste, he may file a
statement to this effect, and he will no
longer be considered to be conducting
hazardous waste activities under this
section.
  (9) A description of the hazardous
waste handled as identified  by listing
under the section 3001 regulations or
by  the  general  type  specified in said
regulation    and   specific   contents
(where known)  using  the best  availa-
ble  information  (e g.  "wastewater
treatment sludge containing lead com-
pounds")
  (10) A statement indicating what in-
formation, if any, in §  250 823(b), num-
bers (8), (9), and (11) (types, descrip-
tion, and  quantities  of  hazardous
waste),  is to be considered confidential
business infoimation  If  the  informa-
tion is claimed  as confidential, it  will
be treated in accordance with the con-
fident jality   of  business  information
regulations in 40 CFR Part 2, Subpart
B. When reported on the  sample form,
information that is not claimed by the
person  filing notification as confiden-
tial  may be  released to the  public
without  further notice to the person
who submitted it The EPA or the des-
ignated  State  agency  will make  the
final determination  as to whether in-
formation submitted  is m  fact  confi-
dential.
  (13) Optional1^ An   estimate of  the
annual  amount of hazardous  waste
handled based on the period from Jan-
uary 1,  1977,  to December  31, 1977
For persons  not conducting hazardous
waste activities during any  or  all of
that period, the annual volume should
be   estimated  m  the best  practical
manner.
                               FEDERAL REGISTER, VOL. 43, NO. US-TUESDAY, JULY  11,  1978

-------
29914
                                                     PROPOSED RULES
                                                           TABLE I
                                             NOTIFICATION FORM WITH INSTRUCTIONS
      NOTE
      READ ALL INSTRUCTIONS
      BEFORE COMPLETING
                              NOTIFICATION OF HAZARDOUS WASTE ACTIVITY
                                     (Section )QIO(,T), Resource Constcva(ion
                                      and Recovery Act of J975, -12 USC 6930)


        \. (o)  Nome of t
          (b)
          (c)  Pn
/ hereby Certify that the information provided herein is complete Jmd c
I understand that all information on  this form m&y be made available to
item number 8.  I am authorized to sign official documenty/Qr my
        3-  («)_
                                                            (b).
                                                                                   the best of my jtnow/ej^e.
                                                                                   • lie unless  otherwise noted under
                                                                (b) Q Tronjp5*J-mod>
              QTr
                                                                                               rail, (rucfr, Ot/ierJ
        5.  Type* of haiordau* woiles handled, as icUndtied by enter,o under Section 3001 r? gy to 11 or, i.  Does the place of operation
                                                         (d  To
           Conimu* in the "^
                                               s id«niified by U
                                                                       Section 3001 >e^u'olior,s, ot b-y gcneiol  type ond »p«
      (COMT1MUED ON PACE 2)
                                     FEDERAL REGISTER, VOL. 43, NO. 131* -TUESDAY, JULY 11, 1978

-------
                                             PROPOSED RULES
                                                                                                             29915
                                           CONF IDfc NT IAL1TY CLAIM
   putting on ",\" in the oppropftote bo«(es}  Anx mlo'
   Irtaltd in occordonce with ike eonf. cUnholi ty reguloti
 reported to EPA lh0i ,s eloimed t
i 46 CFR Port 2, Subport B.
                                                                                       nd.co-e rhor below b,
                                                                                        r,(,deol.oI will be
   NOTE  If you fa
                                                                                      DITEM 1
No /i<-!7ardous  »as'e, as defined ur^kr Section 3001 rc 6e frtirr-,pOr(te/, stored, treated,
or disposed of ur. 'ess notification of hazardous  wasfe activity h:ts been suomittt'd to the EPA or authorized St^lc
au'hortties acco-r'ing (o regulations promulgated under Section 3010, P L. 9 1-580. Failure to comply with thit
regul&tion can result in c/v il and 'or criminal penalties of as  much f>^ $25,000 a day for ejcft ciny of violation.
Any person  v. ho knowingly makes  a IB'SC statement or representation  in filing notification of hazardous taste
activity shall, LPOH conviction,  be sjbj^rJ [o a  /me o/ not more  than $25,000, or to imprisonment not to t'tceec/
one year, or bo'h.
 pla«s* indicate the n\jm\tet of the i'«m be\ng referred lo.
 =^4.
                            FEDERAL REGISTER, VOL. 43, NO. 133—TUESDAY, JULY 11, 1978

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29916
                                                        PROPOSED RULES
            (90) d.iys Uom the d^te of piumulga	-, .v
            waste by  ail persons conducting nP7.udous

            The F,Pj\ is ptoM-lm^ i* form sug-c^mi d. i U--P in tnr^King \utli the notification tequu*-mcnts of Section 3010-
            Uie of this form is ophondl   Completion by a per-on of (hi* form for each plate of operation, with the exception
            noted under item 5(0, and tr'ms-iitta! t° tr e «*ppr°pridte outlionty (or author it it. *) wilt satisfy  all requirements
               "  i Section 3010, P L. 94-580,

                                                                                       on of hazardous  waste activity
                                                                                                         tion Number (ElN)
                                                                                                 (G5A) agency and  facility
                                                                                              •he same ElN lor each)
                                                                                                     No.)-2, (ElN  No)-3).
   (d) Id^niifirjjioji^Nurpberj  If you ha\e  an In
       enter it here  Federal facilities s'lall en

       should designate a separate suffix (o the

       In addition, transporters shall entfr. one
       Commerce Commission  number,  (2)  Public Utilities Commission i
       (State Health Department, erc.J.

       The specific source (IRS, ICC,  ere.} of each  number entered  shal'

2. Pnncipa.1 technical contact(sj.  Enter 'he name, address  and telephone mi
   at the place of operation whom the EP \ or designated State agency may contai
   submitted on this form.

3- Certifies ho r\.  An individual authorize:! by a company or organization officer to sign of my a I  documents on
   their behalf should enter his signature, name and title, and date.

4. Persons filing notification should consult Subpart G regulations for relr-x ant definitions of haz
   activities.  The type(s) of transport mechanism (e.g., truck, railroad,  etc ) nust be provided

$• Types of ^.a^J)jd"us,1*J^l?__a_5_li'^rilL(lejLAVL-c-iLl'l(.1^-  Kac 1
   protocols are  being published under Sertion  3001  regula'i
   whether or not a waste is hazardous.
                                                                       appropriate  category should be inJicafed,  Test
                                                                       ns   These tests ate the findl determinants of
               It should be noted that  if a person marl s the  space for ' Und^tcrnunf J," u,hich may be done only under cate-
               gory "(f) TOXK.," he should  submit  no later than  ISO d.T>s after promulgation  or revision nt Section 3001
               rrgiilat.cn-;, a statement that his v-jstes have been determined not to be h.irntdous, if this determm.ition has
               been inne   Otht" *ISP, any  person wh" indicates that tr1  doe<; not know u, heth^r an) of his *3stes are hazard-
               ous due lo toxicity, \vill be considered  o be conducting ha/aidous v-Jsle activities (or  notihcjtion purposes.
                                              ftnMc_hand>_d.nrin..Mly_  Tbn
                                                                                               hcmlrl cnler the Cstm-
                                                                                               er  11. 19/7   For tlio
                 P1
                 y
                 calendar year.

              8. Self-explanatory.
                                               [FR Doc 78-18989 Filed 7-10-78, 8 45 arn]
                                      FEDERAL REGISTER, VOL. 43, NO. 133—TUESDAY, JULY 11, 1978

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ATTENDEE LIST: EPA PUBLIC HEARING  SAN FRANCISCO, CA
Affleck, Glen
Environmental control Coordinator
Hewlett-Packard, Inc.
1501 Page Mill Road
Palo Alto, CA 94304

Balzhiser, Gary
Operations Coordinator
Union 76 Oil Company
PO Box 7600
Los Angeles, CA 90051

Bayr, Robert
Manager Environmental Affairs
Velsicol Chemical Company
341 E. Ohio St.
Chicago, IL 60611

Bean, Charles
United States Air Force
Air Training Command
323 FTW/DEEV
Mather AFB, CA 95655

Beemer, Rebecca
Environmental Control
Dow Chemical Company
PO Box 1398
Pittsburg, CA 94565

Benson, Barrett
U.S. EPA
PO Box 25227 Bldg. 53
Denver, CO 80225

Beresford, Charles
Corporate Attorney
Oxirane Corporation
4550 Post Oak Place Drive
Houston, TX 77027

Bourns, Charles
Supervisory Environmental Scientist
U.S. EPA
215 Fremont St.
San Francisco, CA 94105

Bowman, Val
Manager Environmental Control
Mobil Chemical Company
1 Greenway Plaza #1100
Houston, TX 77046
Brosler, Harvey
Attorney
U.S. Department of Energy
1333 Broadway
Oakland, CA 94612

Cardall, John
Environmental Staff Engineer
Mobil Oil Corporation
3700 W. 190th St.
Torrance, CA 90509

Cavallero, Jack
Division Chief
San Francisco Fire Department
260 Golden Gate Avenue
San Francisco, CA

Clark, ARdie
CAL-OSHA Reporter
PO Box 207
San Pablo, CA 94806

Daview, Jim
Karding-Lawson Associates
55 Mitchell Blvd.
San Rafael, CA 94902

Delia Zoppa, Joseph
Richmond Sanitary Service
205 41st Street
Richmond, CA 94805

Doss, Robert
Civil Engineer
Pacific Gas & Electric Company
77 Beale St.
San Francisco, CA 94108

Dreier, Robert
Senior Facilities Engineer
Intel Corporation
3065 Bowers Avenue
Santa Clara, CA 95051

Fieberling, Wilson
Director of Public Works
City of Santa Cruz
809 Center Street
Santa Cruz, CA 95060

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Pickett, Kent
Regulatory Report Coordinator
Pacific Gas & Electric Company
77 Beale St.
San Francisco, CA 94106

Fifileuskas, Peter
Waste Management Specialist
2151 Berkeley Way
Berkeley, CA

Fleischer, Burton
Environmental Specialist
Allied Chemical Corporation
Nichols Road
Pittsburg, CA 94565

Foard, James
Environmental & Energy Matters
Phelps Dodge Corporation
PO Box 2265
Tucson, AZ 85702

Greco, James
Director-Government Affairs
Browning-Ferris Industries, Inc.
Fannin Bank Building
Houston, TX 77030

Grey, Alan
Engineer
EG5.G Idaho, Inc.
PO Box 1625
Idaho Falls, ID 83401

Kreider, R.E.
Senior Chemist
Chevron Corporation
PO Box 1272
Richmond, CA 94802

Harding-Barlow, I.
Consultant
3717 Laguna Avenue
Palo Alto, CA 94306

Harrington, R.W.
Pacific Refining Company
PO Box 68
Hercules, CA 94547
Hart, R.E.
Hazardous Materials Control
Southern Pacific Transportation Co.
1 Market Plaza
San Francisco, CA 94105

Hasmann, Charlene
Water Quality Control Board
San Francisco Bay Area
1111 Jackson St. #6040
Oakland, CA 94607

Hatayama, Howard
Asst. Waste Management Engineer
Department of Health Services
2151 Berkeley Way
Berkeley, CA 94704

Hayden, Eveleth
Executive Vice President
League of Industrial Associations
3640 Grand Avenue
Oakland, CA 94610

Heeren, Duane
Environmental Engineer
Getty Oil Company
PO Box 5237
Bakersfield, CA 93308

Henry, Ray
Wilbur-Ellis Company
191 West Shaw Ave. #107
Fresno, CA 93704

Herold, Ken
1935 McAllister St.
San Francisco, CA 94957

Jopling, William
Acting Assistant Chief
Department of Health Services
714 P Street
Sacramento, CA 95814

Kazemi, Hossain
Sanitary Engineer
Regional Water Quality Control Bd.
1111 Jackson St.
Oakland, CA 94607

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Kilpatrick, R.S.
Engineer
Southern Pacific Transportation Co.
1 Market Plaza #1100
San Francisco, CA 94105

Krohn, L.L.
Manager Environmental Control
Union Oil Company
Union Oil Center
Los Angeles, CA 90017

Lechner, George
Systems Safety Engineer
UTC Chemical Systems Division
PO Box 358
Sunnyvale, CA 94088

Levi, Carl
Mechanical Engineer
Champlin Petroleum Company
PO Box 125
Wilmington, CA 90748

Liscombe, E.A.R.
Vice President
Phostoxin, Inc.
PO Box 469
Alhambre, CA 91802

Luchetti, Frank
Waste Management Specialist
Division of Environmental Protection
201 S. Fall Street
Carson City, NV 89710

Mateus, Hugo
Chemist
Romic Chemical Corporation
2081 Bay Road
East Palo Alto, CA 94303

Matsumoto, Stan
Associate Civil Engineer
Contra Costs Dept. of Public Works
County Administrative Building
Martinez, CA 94553

Morriss, James
Attorney
Thompson, Knight, Simmons & Bullion
2300 Republic National Bank Bldg.
Dallas, TX 75201
Nicholson, William
Manager-Research & Engineering
Potlach Corporation
PO Box 3591
San Francisco, CA 94119

Nuti, Caesar
Richmond Sanitary Service
205 41st St.
Richmond, CA 94805

Olmstead, Roger
Senior Environmental Engineer
U.S. Borax, Inc.
3075 Wilshire Blvd.
Los Angeles, CA 90010

Osegueda, Arthur
Engineering Consultant
Chevron USA, Inc.
575 Market St.
San Francisco, CA 94105

Ouellette, Raymond
Senior Engineer
Shell Oil Company
PO Box 2463
Houston, TX 77001

Faille, Edward
Legal Compliance Technician
Kaiser Aluminum & Chemical Corp.
300 Lakeside Drive
Oakland, CA 94643

Parker, A.B.
Senior Conservation Engineer
Atlantic Richfield Company
1601 Bryan St.
Dallas, TX 75221

Petulla, Joseph
Director-Environmental Planning
University of San Francisco
Golden Gate Avenue
San Francisco, CA 94118

Phelan, Daniel
Corporate Manager
Fibreboard Corporation
55 Francisco St.
San Francisco, CA 94133

Pianetto, San
Sludge Removal Service
5316 Diversity
Chicago, IL 60639

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Pieper, R.K.
Industrial Hygienist
Lockheed Corporation
111 Lockheed Way
Sunnyvale, CA 94086

Pulkka, Greer
Environmental Analyst
Simpson Timber Company
900 Fourth Ave
Seattle, WA 98164

Ridinger, David
Director-Environmental Affairs
Newmont Services Limited
PO Box M
San Manuel, AZ 85631

Risley, Bruce
Vice President
American Waste Container Service
11505 Douglas Road
Rancho Cordova, CA

Rosse, H. Laverne
Program Director
Nevada Environmental Protection
201 S. Fall St.
Carson City, NV 89710

Rupp, Stuart
Environmental Consultant
California Environmental Technology
PO Box 7
Richmond, CA 94807

Sanchez, Catalina
Deputy Administrator
Food & Drug Administration
Metro Manilla, Philippines

Schneider, H.M.
President
Romic Chemical Corp.
2081 Bay Road
E. Palo Alto, CA 94303

Schwarzer, Carl
Waste Management Specialist
Dept of Health Services
2151 Berkeley Way
Berkeley, CA 94704
Seto, George
Safety & Health Specialist
Stanford University
61 Encina Hall
Stanford, CA 94305

Severns, Jim
U.S. EPA
215 Fremont St.
San Francisco, CA 94105

Shahed, Rafat
Occupational Health Program
Contra Costa County Health Dept.
1111 Ward St.
Martinez, CA 94598

Shandley, Joseph
Sanitary Engineer
Naval Facilities Engineering Command
Code 114G  PO Box 727
San Bruno, CA 94066

Sievwright, Ralph
Attorney
Twitty, Sievwright & Mills
1905 Townehouse Tower
Phoenix, AZ 85013

Simonsen, Barney
Vice President
I.T. Corporation
336 W. Anaheim St.
Wilmington, CA 90744

Siri, Jean
President
West Contra Costa Conservation League
1015 Levene Place
Richmond, CA 94530

Sloan, Aubrey
Chief, STS Management Division
Vandenberg AFB, CA 93437

Speary, William
Attorney
Browning-Ferris Industries
Fannin Bank Building
Houston,  TX 77030

Staha, Rodger
Exxon Corporation
3400 E. 2nd St.
Benicia,  CA 94510

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Storm, David
Research Chemist
California Department of Health
2151 Berkeley Way
Berkeley, CA 94704

Suhrer, F.C.
Consultant
California Department of Health
2151 Berkeley Way
Berkeley, CA 94704

Sullivan, Pat
Major
United States Air Force
6595 ASTW SZM
Vandenberg AFB, CA 93437

Switzer, D.C.
Safety & Training Supervisor
Pacific Refining Company
PO Box 68
Hercules, CA 94547

Thomas, P.W.
Editor
California Environmental News
PO Box 307
San Carlos, CA 94070

Tortorete, Thomas
Manufacturers Representative
1637 Meadowlark Drive
Fairfield, CA 94533

Trve, L.J.
Senior Project Engineer
Chevron Chemical Company
575 Market St.
San Francisco, CA 94105
Valentino, Chris
Engineer
Bechtel National
PO Box 3965
San Francisco, CA 94119

Van Sant, Jim
Liquid Waste Removal
326 Phelan Ave
San Jose, CA 95112

Wahbeh, William
Technical Manager
IT Corporation
4575 Pancheco Blvd.
Martinez, CA 94553

Weinberg, David
Attorney
Wald, Harkrader & Ross
1320 19th St NW
Washington, DC 20036

Wiegman, S.A.
Senior Environmental Engineer
Southern California Edison Company
PO Box 800
Rosemead, CA 91770

Wilkins, Ken
Manager-Hazardous Materials Services
Safety Specialists, Inc.
3284 Edward Ave
Santa Clara, CA 95050
                    yo1737c
                    SW-44p
                    Order No. 717
                          •ftU.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 1978 O— 620-007/3722 REGION 3-1

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