United States         Office of Sohd Waste
             Environmental Protection    Washington, DC 20460
             Agency

             Solid Waste
v°/EPA       Public Hearing
             on Proposed Landfill
             Disposal Guidelines

             Houston, Texas
             May 17,  1979

             Transcript

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                       TRANSCRIPT

                         Public Hearing

           on Proposed Landfill Disposal  Guidelines

                         Section 1008(a)



                          May 17, 1979

                         Houston, Texas
         Tnis hearing was sponsored by EPA,  Office  of Solid Waste,
and the proceedings (SW-54p) are reproduced  entirely as  transcribed
      by the official reporter, with handwritten corrections.
               U.S.  ENVIRONMENTAL  PROTECTION AGENCY
                               1979

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 1     OPENING REMARKS:   Mr.  Bill Hathaway
                         Chief,  Solid Waste Branch
 2                        Air  and Hazardous Materials Division
                         EPA  Region VI
 3                        Dallas, Texas

 4     PANEL  MEMBERS  PRESENT:

 5     Mr.  Truett Deceare,  chairman
      Chief,  Land Protection Branch
      Land Disposal  Division
      Office of Solid Waste, EPA
      Mr.  Bernard Stoll
      Program Manager,  Land Protection Branch
 9    Office  of Solid Waste,  EPA

10

      Mr.  Bill Hathaway
      Chief,  Solid waste Branch
12    EPA  Region VI —  Dallas,  Texas

13

14    Mr.  Wayne Tusa
      Manager, solid Waste Group
      Fred C. Hart Association, N. Y.
16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

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  I                              SPEAKERS

  2                                                        PAGE

  3     Dr.  Geoffrey Stanford                                14
       Director,  Greenhills Foundation
  4     Cedar Hill,  Texas

  5     S.  Norman Keston                                     23
       Assistant to the vice-president
  6     ASARCO,  Inc.
       New York,  N. Y.
  7
       Dr.  David Marrack                                    33
  8     Physician
       Bellaire,  Texas
  9
       Don Betterton                                        51
 10     Utility Solid Waste Activities Group
       Washington,  D. C.
 11
       Bill Lewis                                           62
 12     Chairman,  Natural Resources & Energy Committee
       House of Representatives
 13     Phoenix, Arizona

 14     Jack Westney                                         65
       Houston chamber of Commerce
 15     Houston, Texas

 16     James R. Greco                                       69
       Director,  Government and Industry Affairs
 17     Browning-Ferris Industries
       Houston, Texas
 18 !
       Herbert C. McKee                                     76 & 80
 19     Assistant  Health Director
       City of Houston, Texas
 20
       Enrique  Quevedo                                      77
 21     Chief,  Public Health Engineering Bureau
       City of Houston, Texas
 22
       Becky True ,  on behalf of                             88
 23     Angus MacPhee
       President, Disposal industries.  Inc.
 24     Newberg, Oregon

25

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 1                             SPEAKERS (Continued)
                                                           PAGE
 2     Steven Taub                                           90
      Vice-president, Process & Engineering
 3          Development
      Stablex corporation
 4
      William c. Hutton                                    100
 5     Texas Chemical council

 6
      Richard S. Barnett                                   105
 7     Senior Geologist
      J. M. Huber Corporation
 g     Houston, Texas

 9
      Leroy Chevalier                                      111
      Northeast organization for Progress
      Houston, Texas
11

12     Frances Jo Pelley                                    114
      Texoma Regional Planning commission
13     Denison, Texas

14
      Dr. James parker                                     130
      La Marque, Texas

16
      STATEMENTS SUBMITTED  FOR  THE  RECORD:

      Dr.  Geoffrey  Stanford,  Director,  Greenhills  Center
      Cedar Hill, Texas
18
      D.  Marrack, M.D.,  Bellaire, Texas
19
      Don Better-ton,  USWAG
20
      Jack Westney, Houston Chamber of Commerce

      James R.  Greco, Browning-Ferris Industries,  Inc.

22     Becky True for Angus  MacPhee, Disposal Industries, Inc.

23     W.  Hutton, Texas Chemical Council

      Richard S. Barnett, J.M.  Huber Corp., Houston, Texas

      Bruce McCandless-K. Orr,  Houston Audobon Society

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 1                         .PROCEEDING^




 2               CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:




 3                      Good Morning.  If I could have your




 4     attention, please, 1 would like to open the record for




 5     this public hearing being held by the Environmental Pro-




 6     tection Agency regarding proposed Guidelines for the




 7     Landfill Disposal of Solid Waste.




 8                      My name is Truett DeGeare.  I am with




 9     EPA's Office of Solid Waste in Washington, D. C., and I




10     will be serving as Chairman of the Agency's Panel today.




11                      I would like to first introduce Mr. Bill




12     Hathaway, who is chief of our Solid waste Branch in our




13     Region VI Office in Dallas, Texas.




14                      Bill.




15               MR. BILL HATHAWAY:




16                      Thank you, Truett.




17                      Good Morning, and welcome to Region VI in




18     Houston.




19                      I am not really sure how much of an en-




20     rollment we have from outside the Region, but, as you all




21     probably know, this is only one of two hearings to be held




22     on this particular set of regulations in the United States,




23     and this is the second of those two hearings, the first




24     being in Washington.




25                      We in Region VI are very proud to sponsor

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 1    this hearing.  We have been  very  adamant  throughout




 2    regulation  setting  that  some of  the  hearings  be  held in




 3    our Region  because  we feel we have a very important  Region




 4    and that  there are  very  important things  to be said  by




 5    the people  in the Region.  So, I am  glad  for  the turnout




 6    for that  reason.  We had indicated that  if the hearing was




 7    held here,  we would have a good  turnout and,  obviously that




 8    is the  case.




 9                     Mrs. Harrison could not  be here this




10    morning and so she  asked me  to give  the Opening  Remarks




11    and to  tell you that she also welcomes you here  and




12    appreciates your involvement and co-operation and would




13    encourage you to co-operate  and  participate.  she is very




14    big on  public participation  and  supports  it in every way,




15    as do the rest of us in  the  Region,  and  at Headquarters,




16    for that  matter.  EPA is very participation-oriented




17    and we  are  trying very hard  to get everyone's comments




18    into the  Record.




19                     As you  know, the Resource Conservation




20    and Recovery Act is some two and a half  years old now




2i    and is  a  very complicated Act.




22                     The particular  set  of regulations that we




23    are dealing with today are the landfill  criteria regula-




24    tions,  not  to be confused with the -- excuse  me  -- the




25    landfill  guideline  regulation, not to be  confused with

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                                                              7




       criteria regulation,  which is  to be promulgated under  4004




 2     of  the  Act.   I already got confused myself.   So, it is




 3     pretty  obvious that  it is  not  hard to do.




                        We  have a whole series of regulations




 5     that  are being promulgated through the various stages  of




 ,     their life  in this particular  Act, and we  are asking your




 7     participation in all of them.   They are all  very im-




       portant and  only through a great deal of participation




       can we  gain  good knowledge so that  we can  conduct our  jobs




       in  a  sound environmental and economical fashion.




                        So,  with  that,  I would just say thanks




       again for coming and do participate throughout the hearing




12     and after the hearing in all of our other  activities.




                        Thank you.





15              CHAIRMAN TRUETT  DeGEARE:




                        I would like  to take care of a couple of




17     housekeeping chores,  and,  hopefully,  introduce you a little




       bit further  to what  we are doing today.




                        First,  I  would like  to make sure that




20     all of  you can hear  me in  the  back of the  room.  At any




2)     point in today's proceedings you cannot hear us, feel




22     free  to just raise your hand and we will try to speak




23     up  and  accomodate you.




24                      Today's meeting is scheduled to extend




25      until 4:00 P.  M. and we anticipate a  lunch break at about

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 1     noon.




 2                      We have divided the room into Smoking




 3     and Nonsmoking Sections and we would appreciate it if




 4     the smokers could sit to my left and the nonsmokers on




 5     my right.




 j                      The guidelines that we are concerned




 7     with today are proposed under the authority of Section




 8     1008(a)(1) of the Solid Waste Disposal Act as Amended




 9     by The Resource conservation and Recovery Act of 1976,




10     that is.  Public Law 94580,  affectionately known as RCRA.





11                      The guidelines were published as proposed




12     regulations in the Federal Register on March the 26th of




13     this year.




14                      Copies of the proposed regulation and the




15     Act itself are available at the registration desk.




16                      A draft Environmental Impact Statement on




17     the Proposed Guidelines has also been prepared and it




18     can be obtained at the registration desk, also.  We are




19     running low on copies, but if we run out, we will be




20     happy to send you copies later from Washington.




2i                      The announcement of the availability




22     of the EIS was published in the Federal Register on




23     April the 6th, 1979.




24                      The closing date for public comment on




25     the regulation and the draft EIS is May 25, 1979.

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                                                              9




  ]                      All  comments  on the  proposed regulation




  2     and  the  draft  EIS must be  postmarked  on or before  that




  3     date.




  4                      In finalizing the  guidelines, we  will




  5     be considering all written comments,  as well  as  testi-




       mony presented at the two  public hearings.




                        You  can contribute to our process either




  8     by making a  statement here today or by submitting  the




  9     written  comments  today or  by mail before May  25.




                        Our  meeting today  is one of  two public




       hearings.  Announcement of the hearings was published




12     in the Federal Register on March 26th, along  with  the




13     proposed regulation.




                        The  public hearing today is  being held




       not  primarily  to  inform the public, nor necessarily to




       defend the proposed guidelines,  but,  rather,  to obtain




,7     the  public's response and  viewpoints  regarding the




       proposed guidelines and the accompanying draft Environ-




       mental Impact  Statement.   Thereafter, we will be con-




       sidering the public's response  and  viewpoints in




21     revising the guidelines as appropriate.




22                      promulgation  of  the  guidelines in final




23     form will fulfill  in  part  the  requirement of  Section




24     1008(a)(1) of  RCRA, to promulgate guidelines  which



       "provide a technical  and economic description of the

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                                                             10




 1     level of performance that can be attained by various solid




 2    waste management practices, including operating practices,




 3     which provide for the protection of public health and




 4     the environment.




 5                      In accordance with Section 1008 of




      RCRA, this proposed regulation has been proposed as




      "Suggested Guidelines" and are, therefore, advisory and




      not mandatory.




                       In promulgating these guidelines EPA




      is certifying that they represent sound solid waste




      management practices.




12                      In many cases, application of the




13     practices outlined in the guideline should enable com-




      pliance with the Section 4004 criteria for classification




      of solid waste disposal facilities.  However, use of




      the practices described in the guidelines does not




17     provide a general guarantee of a landfill disposal




18     facilities compliance with the criteria.




19                      Similarly, in the case of landfills




20     for the disposal of hazardous waste, information con-




      tained in the guideline is only relevant to a hazardous




22     waste disposal facility to the extent that it provides




23     an explanation or elaboration on practices which may




24     also be appropriate to Section 3004 of the Act.




25                      Because of the relationship between

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                                                             11




      these guidelines and the regulations of Section 3004 and




 2     4004 of the Act, some of your comments may well relate to




 3     those two regulations.




 4                      Your comments pertaining to the proposed




 5     guidelines will, of course, be considered in developing




      the final guidelines.  However, since public comment




      periods on both proposed 3004 and 4004 regulations have




      closed, we cannot at this hearing entertain comments




 9     or discussion on the 3004 and 4004 regulations.




10                      EPA is maintaining an official record




      of all comments received during the public comment




12     period.  This record is referred to as Docket 1008.1.




13     All comments to be placed in the public record should




14     be addressed to the Office of Solid Waste, Mail code




      WH 564, Environmental protection Agency, Washington, D. C.,




16     20460; attention: Bernard stoll. Docket 1009.1.  This




      mailing address may also be found in the Federal Register




18     proposed Regulation.




                       This hearing is being recorded and a




2Q     verbatim transcript will be placed in the docket for




      our use in developing the final regulation.




22                      The docket is available for public




23     review during normal working hours at EPA Headquarters




24     in Washington.




25                      The purpose of this hearing is for the

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                                                              12




      public to present their views on this proposed regulation.




 2     We will start with those parties who have requested to




 3     make a formal statement.  I ask that each individual  limit




      his statement to approximately ten minutes.  if you have




      a longer written statement, you may submit it.  It




      will be published in its entirety in the transcript.




 -                      We invite anyone here in attendance




      to direct questions to persons making statements.  in




      order to do this, we would ask you to use the cards




      which are available at the registration desk.  On these




..     cards you should write your question and submit those




..     to the panel so that we can address those to those making




      the statements.




                       At the end of the hearing, after we




      have heard all of the statements, we will provide an




      opportunity for those of you who wish to ask questions




17     of the members of the Panel,  once again, we ask that




      you submit your questions in writing on the cards which




      are available.




20                      We will supply transcripts of this




2]     hearing to those of you who request one by contacting




22     our representatives at the registration desk.




23                      In making your statements today, we




24     would ask that you please use the podium for your




25     notes and so that everyone in the room can hear you.

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                                                              13




  1                      If you have written prepared remarks, we




  2     would ask that you please provide them in advance to your




  3     making your oral remarks to the reporter for use in




  4     providing an accurate transcript.




  5                      Also,  we would ask that you please state




       your name and affiliation.




                        I would like at this time to introduce




       the other Panel Members.  You have already heard from




  9     Bill Hathaway.  To his  left is Bernard Stoll, who is with




 10     our Washington, D. C. Office of Solid Waste; and to his




       left is Mr. Wayne Tusa, who is with Fred c. Hart




       Associates — this firm was involved in assisting us in




       developing the draft Environmental impact Statement and




       they will also be working with us in developing the




 15     final EIS.




                        Are there any questions regarding the




       way we are going to proceed today?




                        (No response.)




 )9                      All right.  We will go right ahead with




 20     the individuals who have requested time to provide state-




       ments at the hearing.  The first is Dr. Geoffrey Stanford.





 22




 23




 24




25

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                                                              14





 1                 STATEMENT OF DR. GEOFFREY STANFORD




 2                DR. GEOFFREY  STANFORD:




 3                      Thank  you, Mr. Chairman.




 4                      Ladies and Gentlemen,  I am  Dr.  Geoffrey




 5     Stanford.   I am trained and practice as a  physician  and




 ,     surgeon and I now practice public  Health and Preventive




 ,     Medicine through Environmental  Planning.




 g                      I  am Director  of  the Greenhills




 g     Environmental Research  center in Dallas,   we operate




,Q     on a  thousand acres of  land under  the patronage  of




..     Fox and Jacobs, whom you know as housebuilders here




      in Texas.




                       We do  environmental studies and




      research.   For example, I am the fortunate recipient




      of a  research grant from the EPA to study  the use of




      refuse and sewage sludge on soils  as a  soil  manure.




.,     As a  matter of fact, our trial  grounds  are only  forty




]8     minutes away from here, and I would be  glad  to show




      our results to any of you today or tomorrow.




                       The crop yield, using  those materials,




      is about two and three  quarter  times greater than with




      other wastes, than with chemical fertilizers presently.




_„                      we have another grant  from  the  National




,.     Center for Petro  (phonetic) Technology  to  study  a




-I     novel way  of generating bio gas from waste.

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                                                              15




                        Now,  turn to your documents.  I find them




  2     excellent.  Under "Back-up EIS,'  it seems to me a most




  3     eloquent idea to get more information before the public




  4     in a practical and useful way --  a valuable document.




  5                      So, with that over-all comment, any other




  i     comments I made must seem to be rather like nit-picking,




  7     to me, anyway.  But we want to remind ourselves, in other




       societies which are in better harmony with nature than




       we are,  nits are an esteemed article of diet.  We now




       know that nits and other insects  provide in their skins




       essential protein which is not readily available to




       those societies in the food they have.  And, for the




       same reason, the Indians of San Francisco Bay ate




       grasshoppers in large quantities.  And suddenly one




       realizes why our supermarkets, in the gourmet section,




 ,,     offer us ants dipped in chocolate.




                        I hope that my intellectual remarks




 18     today in the form of nit-picking  are equally acceptable




       to you for your intellectual activity.




                        So, I am turning now to Page 53 of




       the EIS  on the clay liner where  you say that because




 22     of drying out and cracking risks, the clay liner should




 23     be installed only as spill construction progresses.




 24     Now,  that's sound logic, but,  unfortunately, the




25     compactor working from below up the refuse space is

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                                                             16




 1     backing, ensuing down at the bottom to take the next cut,




 2     as you might say, the next compression line.  So, it is




 3     going to make the clay, break the clay lining and disrupt




 4     the thickness layer quite considerably, and that will




 5     require some further thought.




                       Then you realize that many landfills,




      operators cut and fill where the spoil from the cut is




      used to cover the fill and, therefore, it can only be




      operated in this way.  So, this recommendation, in many




      landfills, is mandatory because of the way it works.




11     And, so even more must the matter be considered.




12                      Then you have to recognize that the con-




13     tractor who is supplying the clay of the approved quality




      cannot plan in his advanced contract with your city or




      whatever to supply the clay at the rate at which your




      arrival of refuse under weather conditions is bringing




17     it.  And, so, his estimates may be upset.  And then he




18     may be tempted to use material other than clay — and




19     hope no one will notice — or the landfill operator




2Q     goes on filling even though the clay isn't there — and




      then you might just as well not have bothered with




22     the whole thing at all because the liner is now rancid.




23                      Well, if you do get the right clay and




24     you do get it laid down in the right proportions and




25     the compactor does not tear it out, you have to remember

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                                                              17




  1     that clay is  readily focculated by some chemicals  —  heavy




  2     metals,  for example.  And supposing that bit  of bad luck




  3     the  bottom of the  fill,  the  first  fill,  happens to be




  ^     a  crate  of mercury batteries  or some chunks of lead




  5     acetate  or something,  the leachate flow may be highly




       concentrated  locally.  Or you can  think of a  cavity,  like




       a  refrigerator or  a washing machine,  which happens to




  8     get  filled up with a great concentration of some foul




  9     fluid from a  crate which was  near  it and then when that




       finally  collapses  by rust or  whatever,  there  is a  straight




 ,,     trickle  down  from  this concentrated containment onto




 ..     a  quite  small portion of the  clay  floor — and there




       you  are.   It  will  effectively punch a hole by focculation




       through  the clay liner and destroy its  integrity —




 .,     and  you  never know where that is.   YOU  can't  find  it




 16     now  the  fill  is full.




 I7                     In the  same  kind  of way, the polymer




 I8     liner, which  we lay down in strips and  then seal each




 19     strip against the  last,  how are we going to insure that




 2Q     the  contractor is  there  on the day that it has to  be




 21     sealed and can test it before we have already covered




 22     it with  the material?




 23                     So,  it  can,  presumably,  leak at the




 24     joints.   It is going to  be quite a problem in practice




25     to make any of these liners work.

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                                                             18




 1                      And, then, further on, you talk about




 2    flood plane sites and diking them, and you assume that




 3     the diking and the liner together will prevent water




 4     infiltrating or overflowing in.  Well, if we ignore




 5     my remarks so far, what happens when your water level




      rises to near the top of the dike and the water table




      below is lifting and cracking the liner by hydraulic




      pressure and the water rushes in and, then, of course,




 9     it is breached and it rushes out again forever.




10                      So, flood plain practice should not be




11     condoned or even thought about by diking.  It should be




12     forbidden, I suggest.




13                      Now, coming out of Medicine, I am think-




      ing about the nurses who, in my day, used to wear caps




      on their heads so that the infection from their hair




      could not fall into the open wound,  well, now it is




17     very cosmetic and their hair is down to their shoulders,




13     but we feel safe if they have a hat on, if they are




      wearing a cap.  And I am wondering if this liner




      recommendation is functioning similar to a nurse's cap.




      It eases our conscience.  We are doing our best, but




22     we are not helping the environment at all, really.




23     And, just because we have got to better solution to




24     offer yet, are we entitled to recommend these liners




25     in good faith at all?  Would our children have to drink

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                                                              19




 1      poisoned water  as  a  result of  our  deluding ourselves?




 2      And  is  this  the same kind of whitewashing proc^^iure




 3      which is going  on  with the nuclear power people who




 4      are  trying  to hoist  their nuclear  waste into our




 5      salt mines,  pretending they are going to stay there




       for  twenty  million years?




 7                      Why don't we  admit openly that we don't




 g      know how to  contain  this  material, and invite better




 9      solutions.   Even if  they  are more  expensive short-term,




       we must bear that  short-term cost  to protect our




       children.  But  there is a solution which we duck.




12      And  that is  that industries that make or sell any toxic




13      or hazardous material that comes into the open must




14      be compelled to detoxify  them  at point of origin or




       at point of  disposal as part of their internal costs and




       not  externalize the  costs, either  the solid waste or




17      sewage  stream and  the taxpayer at  large.




                       Now,  I'm going to turn to revegetation




       on Page 117  of  the EIS where you say that naked grasses




       have shallow root  systems — and I want to nit-pick




2]      here.   Prairie  grasses, all the way from Texas up to




22      Nebraska, have  root  systems going  down three, four and




23      more meters. So,  that does need modifying.




24                      And you  might like to include a para-




25      graph on the methane generation in landfills which

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                                                              20




  1     poison  the  roots  of  any  plants which try to  send  down




  2     deep roots.   You  can easily  plant  trees  in landfills




  3     whose roots will  go  down in  the  spoil cover  of each




  4     day's operation,  but they are killed instantly by the




  5     methane generation.




  ,                      So,  you can look  around for trees like,




  7     for  example,  the  ones which  grow in estuaries which




       don't mind methane — in  fact, which flourish on it.




                        And, then on Page 118,  I would beg




       you  to  include  the list  of Latin names for those  plants




       because plants  have  different names in different  places.




 12     And  you may like  —  because  this book i s  used by




 13     engineers —  to include  a very brief account of soil




 14     preference  and  environmental preference.  For example,




       to my knowledge.  New Jersey  Key  will only grow on bare




       chalk.   I expect  there are people  from New jersey here




       today who see it  thriving in their soils.  I ha/e never




       seen that.   I have only  lived down here and we have




 .„     ours on acid  bare ground. As soon as grass cover comes




 2Q     in,  they are  completely  competed out.




                        The prairie Rose  Grass only grows in




 22     gumbo clay.  Heathers will only  grow in acid sand or




 23     perhaps a  little  peat.




 24                      These kind  of things, until I know




25     the  Latin name, i cannot speak  for certainty.

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                                                             21




 1                     And anybody who recommends kudzu is




 2    going to hit some problems with some agriculturalists




 3    in their listing.  So, you ought to put it in in only




 4    heavily   forested  areas  ox  something.




 5                     And you might like to consider adding




 $    cucurbits.   Melons and watermelons grow superbly on




 7    landfills.  The sweetest, largest watermelons you have *




 8    ever seen came off of our landfill in — our dump --




 9    I shouldn't have said that, should I — our unused




 10    excess solid wastes which we incorporated in our trial.




 11                      Now, I am going to turn to a general




 12     matter in conclusion and ask you perhaps to consider




 13     putting in a run-in statement at the very beginning




 14     to introduce people like me to what this regulatory




 15    document is all about.  And I thought that, like on




 16    Page 18139 of the proffer of the thing, on Column 1,




 17    to introduce directly under the title, "Discussion of




 18     Proposed Guidelines" a new sub chapter, a new sub heading,




 19    a new paragraph, too, which might run something like this:




 20                      "In the present time of contracting




 2]               energy supplies, the EPA appreciates ever




 22               more intently that "A waste is a resource




 23               in the wrong place'.  The EPA appreciates that




 24               resource recovery and recycling must be the




25               prime objective of any solid waste management.

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                                                             22



                The EPA appreciates an integrated approach to



 2               management of municipal resources, sewage,



 ,               refuse and drinking water, and is mandated



                to begin in Year 1980.



 5                      "Yet, there will probably always be a



 .               small residue for which no economic or social
 6


 _               use can be found locally.



 „                      "For managing this residue, one of our



                most successful ways today, in the absence of



                a better alternative, is the well-managed



                sanitary landfill.  These guidelines speak



                to that.



.,                      And, sir, they speak to it excellently.



]4                      Thank you.




ls               CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:



                       Thank you.



                       Are there any questions from the Panel?



18                       (No response.)



19               CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:



2Q                      Does the audience have any questions?



      If so, feel free to bring your cards forward.



22                       (No response.)



23               CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:



                       Thank you, sir.  Thank you for  your



25     remarks.


                       The next speaker is Mr. Norman Keston.

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                                                              23





  1                   STATEMENT OF  S.  NORMAN KESTON




  2               MR.  S.  NORMAN KESTON:




  3                      Unfortunately,  my testimony is  not in




  4     shape  to give  to  the reporter  to put into the record.




  5     However,  we  will  be  making  formal comments in writing.




                        My  name is S. Norman Keston or  ASARCO,




       incorporated,  where  I am Assistant to the Vice-president




       for  Environmental Affairs.  I  am also chairman of a Solid




       Waste  Task Force  of  the American Mining Congress and I




       appear here  on behalf of that  group.




                        The Members of  the Panel and the public




 12     must be wondering why the mining industry is presenting




 13     testimony on the  subject of landfills.  I want to point




 14     out  that the definition of  "landfill" in these proposed




 15     regulations  goes  far beyond a  mere garbage dump, which




       is the common  concept of the meaning of the term.




                        The definition  given in Section 240.101(m)




 18     on Page 18141  reads :




 19                      "'Landfill' means a facility for the




 2o               disposal of solid waste involving the  placement




                 of solid waste on or into the land surface,




 22               and  usually involving  compaction and covering




23               of the  disposed solid  waste, and which is not




24               a  land  spreading  or  surface impoundment




25               facility."

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                                                             24




 1                      That definition could be  interpreted,




 2     and we feel might well be  interpreted, to  include  a




 3     disposal site for mining and metallurgical waste.




 4                      The American Mining Congress  is a




 5     national association of companies that produce most of




 6     the nation's supply of metals, coal and  industrial and




 7     agricultural metals.




 8                      While producing these essential products,




 9     the member companies necessarily generate  large quantities




10     of waste rock, waste materials from milling and other




11     forms of beneficiation, often called tailings, furnace




12     slags and other similar processing wastes  from later




13     stages of total processing toward usual, usable products,




14     as well as other wastes in relatively small quantities.




15                      The American Mining Congress  is thus




16     very interested and concerned about the  economic impact




17     upon the minerals industry of any regulations  promulgated




18     for the purpose of implementing provisions of the  Solid




19     Waste Disposal Act.




20                      In addition, we want to try to insure that




2i     during the formulation of  such regulations, the Agency is




22     fully aware of technological limitations,  that the very




23     nature of its waste products, of its wastes, places upon




24     the industry and takes into account the  large  number of




25     physical and chemical variables that tend  to make  each

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                                                              25




  1     operation unique.




  2                      In general,  the industry has a series




  3     of special problems in complying with waste disposal regu-




  ^     lations because of the sheer  volume of the wastes that




  5     we generate,  and the large areas of land that those wastes




       must occupy.




                        Using copper and copper ores as examples,




       new mine production, including beneficiation, smelting




  9     and refining  in this country, is of a magnitude that there




 10     is also produced annually about six hundred millions tons




 11     of mined waste rock, two hundred fifty million dry tons of




 12     mill tailings, and about five million tons of furnace




 13     slag.




                        Now,  if that mine waste,  that is, six




       hundred million tons of it, were distributed into new




 16     waste dumps,  each of which covers six hundred and forty




 17     acres,  which  is one square mile of land — in a previous




 18     hearing I used the word "a section of land" but I was




 19     admonished that people in the South and East don't know




 20     what a section of land is. Well, it's 640 acres and it




 2i     is one square mile.  Anyway,  these wastes, the six hundred




 22     million tons  of waste,  would  be built up to an average




23     height of thirty feet by the  end of a year spread over




 24     two sections  of land,  two square miles.




25                      If tailings,  that is,  the two hundred

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                                                             26




      fifty million dry tons of tailings, were in one new




 2     tailings disposal site occupying this 640 acres of land,




 3     they would be built up to a height of twenty-five feet




 4     in a year.




 5                      The height of a pile of slag covering




      640 acres would be somewhat less at the end of the year,




      something like six to eight feet.




                       I used copper as an example.  Obviously




      the underlying principles are applicable to operations




      involving most other non-fuel minerals, including mining




      and beneficiation of f oxate rock and mining of uranium





12     ore-



12                      The smelting of iron ore generates




      twenty-four million tons of slag annually.




                       Despite the draft regulations, proposed




      regulations that EPA has made available, member companies




      of the American Mining Congress still have no idea what




      the cost will be of solid waste disposal under the act.




19     If the term "open dump" and the term "sanitary landfill"




2Q     are strictly applied — and there will be a great deal of




      pressure upon the Agency to apply them strictly — then




22     very many piles of waste rock, tailing accumulations, and




23     slag dumps still being used might have to be classified




24     as open dumps, to be upgraded or closed within five




25     years.

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                                                             27




                       In many instances, upgrading may be




 2     physically impossible or downright dangerous.  Replace-




 3     ment by new sanitary landfills would be so expensive




 4     as to quickly impair, greatly impair, if not destroy,




 5     the economic viability of the operations.




 ,                      If what is required of a disposal site




      for wastes not designated as hazardous is that there




 -     be no reasonable probability of injury to human health




 o     or the environment, another dimension of uncertainty




..     is added.  We would be dependent upon someone's assess-




,,     ment of that probability and of what is reasonable and




      of how much injury is permissible.




                       The result of such assessment could be




14     just as expensive and just as crippling as the direct




.,     application of the term "open dump."




16                      Of course, I am speaking of cumulative,




,,     worst case situations.




                       One frustrating thing is that we do not




      know at this time, nor will we know at the time the pro-




2Q     posed regulations become final, just what their effect




      upon our industries will be.




22                      Amidst all of this we feel that there




23     is a reasonable probability that our current methods of




      disposal do not damage human health or the environment




      except in minor, easily recognized instances.  In fact.

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                                                             28




      we think that EPA is justified in making that presumption.




 2                     In addition, we contend and are on record




 3    to this effect that the legislative history of the Act




 4    states unequivocally that mining wastes are at this time




 5    exempt from the provisions of solid waste regulations.




 ,    I refer you to the comments of the American Mining




      Congress on Rules proposed under Section 4004 of the




      Act.




                       The guidelines proposed in Section




      257.l(c) under Section 4004(a) of the Act specifically




      provides that overburdening resulting from the mining




12    and milling operations which is returned to the mine




      is not subject to classification by the 4004 criteria.




      The argument, of course, is what is overburden?  And




,c    what is the mine to which the overburden is returned?




      Definitions.




                       The same exclusion also is contained




18    in the Hazardous waste Regulations under Section 3001




19    of the Act.




20                     Our reading of the presently proposed




      guidelines leads us to believe that the Office has taken




22    this exclusion into account because several of the




23    suggested recommended practices are not applicable to




24    mine wastes by any flight of imagination




25                      We urge, however, that the exclusion

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                                                              29




 1      found  in  proposed  Section 257.1(c)  proposed under




 2     Section 4004 (a)  of the  Act be  repeated or  referenced




 3     here for  the  benefit  of the  states  to  whom the  guide-




 4     lines  are directed.




 5                     We feel that  in  this  instance  EPA has




       dealt  with the  matter of site  specificity  in a




 7     commendable manner.   In the  past, however, it has  been




 3     found  that states  have  a tendency to translate  guide-




 9     lines  directly  into regulations without missing a  beat.




10                     We urge that  the flexibility written




       into some of  the provisions  be emphasized  wherever it




12      is  applicable as a means of  discouraging states from




13      slavishly following the guidelines  without substantial




14      change.   The  term  "site specific" should be the pass-




       word.




                       In our final  written  comments, we




17      will list examples of instances in  which adequate




18      flexibility has  been  omitted.




19                      It is  an often repeated truism that




20      a mineral deposit  is  where you find it,  and you have




2i      to  mine it where it is  — not  somewhere else.




22                      Furthermore,  the economics of  mining




23      are such  that waste from a mining operation cannot be




24      transported very far  before  trucking or rail transporta-




25      tion charges  eat up the margin.   So that factors other

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                                                             30




      than costs sometimes become irrelevant in site selection.




 2                      Furthermore, if the mine site and other




 3     disturbed areas are to be reclaimed, as they most cer-




 4     tainly are, most criteria for selection of land sites




 5     also are irrelevant given normal and usual engineering




      caution and care.




                       Cost effectiveness must be considered




      by the Agency in designing regulations, but the cost




      effectiveness of the future use of a landfill site by




      the person who owns it is not a concern of the Agency.




      Determination of future use is a business decision, to




      be made by the owner within the limits imposed by




      existing environmental laws and regulations.  Future




      use should not be a factor in a state's approval of a




      location of a landfill unless that future use is con-




      trary to zoning restrictions.




17                      As noted earlier, many of the guidelines




18     are not applicable to mining operations and cannot be




      made so, no matter how they are twisted or distorted.




2Q     One example is in the admonition to avoid selecting a site




      near an airport because birds attendant upon the waste




22     pose a danger to air traffic.  The author should recognize




23     that this stricture cannot be applied to mining wastes




24     because no garbage is mixed with the relatively inert




25     overburden waste rock, tailings and slag that would

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                                                              31




       attract birds.   Other  examples will be  presented  in our




 2     formal comments.




 3                     There should be no overlap between the




 4     landfill  proposals  and regulations proposed or  promulgated




 5     under other  statutes.




                       It would be detrimental  and ultimately




       confusing to the judges  to have to try  the cases  that




       will arise out  of the  overlap if the Agency were  to




       persist in including regulations concerning such  things




       as air quality  control and occupational safety  and health




       in these  regulations when these matters are already ade-




       quately covered under  other statutes.




13                     All that is needed and all that  should be




       permitted is reference to those other statutes  and to  the




       necessity to conform with their requirements.   To go




       beyond that  is  to demonstrate one of the  prime  evils




       of regulatory practice.




                       The American Mining Congress and its




       member companies have  and continue to be, have  been and




       continue  to  be  appreciative of the opportunities  that




       the Office of Solid Wastes has afforded the public since




22     long before  the statutes was passed and was enacted in




23     1976 to participate in the formulation  of regulations.




24                     No one was born in a mine and  very many




25     people have  no  better  idea of how one is  operated and

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                                                              32




 1     what it produces than can be read  in a book.  We hope  that




 2     our collective experience has been useful  in the past  and




 3     we stand ready to continue to contribute that experience




 4     to the Agency's decision-making.




 5                      Thank you.




 ^                      Are there any questions?




 7               CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:




 g                      Thank you.




 9                      I wonder if you have information  to




10     support your request that we presume that  current




11     disposal practices in the industry do not  pose  any




12     reasonable or probability of a hazard to health or the




13     environment?




14               MR. S. NORMAN  KESTON:




15                      Not offhand, but  the office of Solid




16     Waste, in co-operation with the Office of  Research and




17     Development, are embarking upon very detailed studies




18     of mining waste, which I believe  is scheduled to cost




19     over three million dollars and take three  years, and  I




20     am sure they will derive that information.




2i                      There are, of course, a lot of relatively




22     small operations -- I shouldn't say "a lot" —  some




23     relatively small operations where  the practices may not




24     be up to snuff, but this does not  affect the vast  bulk




25     of the waste of which we dispose.

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                                                                33




  1                CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:




  2                       I have received no questions  from the




  3     audience.  Are there any?




  4                       (No response.)




  5                CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:




                         Thank you,  sir.




  7                       Next we would like to hear from  DT.




  8     David Marrack.




  9




 10




 11




 12




 13




 14




 15




 16




 17




 18




 19




 20




 21




 22




 23




 24




25

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                                                              34




 1                  STATEMENT OF  DR.  DAVID MARRACK




 2              DR. DAVID MARRACK:




 3                     Good Morning.




 4                     It is nice to  see  you  here,  sirs.




 5                     I have protested many  times  to  the EPA




 4    that we don't have hearings in  this area,  and I  am




 7    pleased that you are here today, and please  convey




 8    that to Mrs. Harrison.




 9                     Secondly,  I  think  it is  only right




10    that a copy of the transcript of this proceeding be




11     brought to Houston or adjacent  area,  city in the area;




12    and, further, there ought to  be a copy  on the West




13    coast, San Francisco —




14               CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE  (interposing):




15                     Doctor, would  you  state  your name and




16    affiliation, please.




17              DR. DAVID MARRACK:




18                     Surely.  I thought you had  already




19    introduced me.




20                     Dr. Marrack.  I am a physician.  I am




2i     a Clinical Pathologist in the past.  I  am now a  General




22    practitioner.  My concern is  public Health,  and  I object




23     to being blamed for the rising  costs of medical  care




24     at a time when we insist on doing practices  which make




25     people ill.

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                                                              35




  1                      I noted this morning when I picked up an




  2     envelope to stuff these few notes in that it happened to




  3     be dealing from things from the Tomb of Tutankhamem.  I




  4     suppose in the many respects that that's one of the




  5     ultimates in solid waste disposal.




                        I would like to point out right at




       the beginning, apart from transcripts being elsewhere




       than in Washington, which not everyone goes to, you know,




  9     that there is little point in having recommendations if




 10     they don't have any teeth.  What we need are regulations,




       regulations that are enforceable, and a real effort to




 12     make them work.  Later on in what I have got to say you




 13     will see why.




 14                      Again, I strongly support the concepts




 U     that toxic chemicals should be followed and tracked




       from cradle to grave.  And, again, the cost of their




 17     detoxification and disposal are part of the cost of




       making the product.  They don't externalize these costs.




 19                      You cannot make the. free market place




 20     work if you don't put all the costs in.  It is one of




       our current society's problems.  And here we have an in-




 22     ability to make the selections of the market place work




 23     because if you don't put all the costs in the cost of




 24     detoxifying which you then pass on to ill health and




25     blame the medical profession for it.

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                                                              36




 1                      And, certainly, mining tailings  should




 2     be part of these regulations.  I cite asbestos  in Lake




 3     Superior.  There is just no justification, never  was,




 4     for putting asbestos particles into Lake superior,




 5     municipal water supply for many communities around that




      lake.  There are equally unacceptable practices which




 7     lead to the acid in streams in the mining areas of the




 8     East.  Why they are acid, we won't go into.  The  sulfides




 9     in the ore are partly responsible.




                       Looking at landfill solid waste  disposal,




11     it would seem that, in view of the increasing tax and




12     social burdens that these represent, we may take  a holo-




13     listic look at the problem.




14                      The risks and the costs of the past




     laissez-faire appcoacih.-are -only too apparent -now because




      the extremes are the hundred odd sites identified by




17     EPA which contain wastes hazardous to human welfare —




18     I'm sorry — which are hazardous to human welfare by




19     virtue of the solid or toxic wastes they contain, and




20     these are some hundred of them spread around the




      country.  There are at least two near Houston.




22                      I would also submit, though, that the




23     aggregate effect of many lesser waste disposal  sites




24     are in the end even more significant than  those that




25     contain  large quantities or even  small quantities, for

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                                                              37




       that  matter,  of  very toxic waste  compounds  for  they are




 2     getting widely distributed into our water supplies  and




 3     into  our  food chains.




 4                      And these are the matters  that concern




 5     at  least  me  and  I think many  other people,  too.




 ,                      There  seem to be a number  of approaches




 1     available,   one  is,  obviously, to create less waste.




 8     That's not so easy,  but,  as someone has pointed out,  waste




       is  a  resource in the wrong place. Maybe we need to do




       some  more recycling  and make  a useful  function  out  of




       our waste.   All  that can be done.




                        I submit that the continuation of  the




       present practices is unacceptable.




                        The approach, obviously, needs to  be




.,     one of social mechanics and social decisions.  One  of




       the tools we  don't use  in this respect very much is




       the tax tool. I think  one of the things we need to do




]8     is  to take a  more wider view  of — and it is difficult




19     for EPA with  the present structure of  our Agencies  —




2Q     to  effect a change in the patterns of  habits and




       practices through the tax system, but  that  is one of




22     the ways  which is very  effective  when  it is applied.




23                      We  need, to give  more  thought to health




24      care  and  prevention  in  the practices,  both  in the home




25      and in commerce.

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                                                              38




 1                     As  an example,  cans.   Cans  are  always




 2     thrown away for  all  practical  purposes.   If  they are




 3     made  of magnetic material,  it  is relatively  easy to




 4     recover them from waste and it is relatively easy to




 5     recycle them,  what's  more, they are versatile.   You  can




 g     use them for a number  of purposes when you have  got




 7     recycled cans.  That differs from those cans made from




 g     nonmagnetic materials,  which all you can do  with them is




 9     make  a lot  of  cans.  And it seems to me you  cannot




 10     separate these aluminum cans —  particularly having




 11      aluminum cans  in mind  — from solid waste by magnetic




 12     means.  So, you  fail to recover  a resource simply by  the




 13      way you distribute can-making materials.




 14                      Again, glass  is not easily  recovered




 15     by physical means  from solid waste. It seems to me the




 16     only  way to recover  glass — and there is a  need to,  as




 17     you will see in  a moment — from solid waste is  simply




 18     to do it at source.  And, so,  one needs to put a system




 19     of social pressure on  communities to get the glass out




 20      of their solid waste and home and in commerce.  The




 2)      glass can be recycled  separately, but, more  important,




 22      the product remains.  You can get the  metal  out of it,




 23      at least the steel out of it,  and you  are left with




 24      something that can be  used either as a fuel  or fermented




25      to make volatile compounds and used, and you cannot do

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                                                              39




       those  things  too easily when you have chunks  of  glass




 2     all through it.   There is  no reason for  using syncloesis




 3     (phonetic)  using solid waste —  part of  it, at least,  to




       generate  electrical  power.




                        And then  look at the landfill disposal




 ,     phase  of  waste  disposal.  There  is a need for much




 7     tighter surveillance and control in order to  protect




       health and  water resources.   Municipal waste  today




       commonly  contains toxic chemicals.  In this area,  for




       instance, two years  ago the  wide distribution by the




       Tax Department  of agriculture of five-pound bags of Myrex




       to  households who asked for  them — truckloads of 40,000




       pounds were brought  into the area of these five-pound




       bags and  distributed throughout  Harris County.  An




 .,     unknown quantity of  these  found  their way into municipal




 ,,     garbage dumps over the subsequent ten to twenty  months.




       The amount  is unknown,  of  course,  but it surely  was




 18     significant.  Now, this is a persistent  chlorated hydro-




 19     carbon pesticide,  not only itself, but its degradation




 20     products  are  both toxic and  mutagenic — it produces




       birth  defects and cancer,  and the degradation process




 22      also has  these  undesirable and destructive effect.




 23                       I cite Myrex in this instance simply




 24      because of  the bags  was labeled  and it was easy  to find




25      them;  and,  secondly,  because it  is an example of the

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                                                             40


 1     kinds of toxic chemicals which are widely distributed now


 2     in our society and whose control, once they get into the

                                     •
 3     small user, is without any surveillance whatsoever.  And,


      yet, when you add it all together, they represent a


      frightening total.


                       These sort of things need to be handled


      and reviewed and a means found to prevent this type of


      situation from arising and damaging our resources.


 9                      I think the lengths to which companies


10     go to avoid the responsible waste disposal is exhibited


      by the recent contaminated oil sludge disposal on road


      toppings in counties not very far from here.  YOU may


      be aware of the situation.


                       Now, here's the kind of ethics that we


      are dealing with and it is not just limited to this situa-


      tion.  Illegal dumping is not that uncommon in this area.


,7                      State and municipal wastes for these


      above reasons must be handled as a toxic waste and no


      waste which is not virgin soil or building masonry and


20     rubble should ever be permitted in the flood plain or in


      the coastal zone which gets flooded by hurricanes.  And


22     yet, you have at this time, just at this present time,


23     two such sites being considered.  One of these is to the


24     west and north off the Katy-Hockley Road.  Here we have


25     some 400 acres proposed in the flood plain of cypress Creek.

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                                                              41




       The creek is  interesting — we will go back to that,   it




 2     involves  a site where the endangered Bald Eagle,  Southern




 3     Bald Eagle, comes  to winter.  Also,  the prairie chicken




 4     is  in the area.  It is  probably on the edge of the re-




 5     charge aquifer, one of the recharge aquefirs for  this




       area.  And yet there seems to be no attempt — except




       some protests from persons like myself.  The State




       Agencies  have happily gone along so far.   There is another




       hearing on June the 5th by the Health Resources.   Maybe




 10     they have a little  more sense.




                        Then you have another one down off




       Galveston,  1-45,  about seven miles west along the inter-




       coastal Canal.  Here industrial sludge — application




       has been  made to put more industrial sludge by a  dump




 15     which is  already present.  It's in the wrong place,  it's




       in  the hurricane surge area.  The  levees, if I remember,




       are to be twelve and a half feet high.  Hurricane surges




 ]8     in  that area  can go up to fifteen - thirty feet.   And if




 19     anyone thinks a hurricane does not do damage to levees




       and the levee structure,  you have only got to recognize




       that hurricanes in recent living memory have swept




22     through the islands.  Galveston Island is not four miles




23     away from this site and had a cut-through in the  past




       hundred years.  You can see it in the geology formations




25      down there.   It is filled in now—  it isn't there, but

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                                                             42




 1     the remains are, and the tell-tale signs of a cut-through.




 2                      These are the sorts of problems that you




 3     and your regulations — and there should be regulations —




 4     need to address.  This particular one down along the




 5     Intercoastal Canal is to receive industrial sludge.




 5     Now, the industrial sludge comes from a series of companies




 7     and it is not that of a continuous uniform processed




 g     product but one that varies, depending upon what those




 9     companies are doing at that particular time.  No one




      knows — because no analyses are being done of any sig-




      nificance to find out what high chlorated hydrocarbons




12     are in that sludge.  We know something about the heavy




13     metals.




14                      And the other thing that goes on in




      these situations, of course, is that plants and industrial




      plants have various breakdowns, excursions  (phonetic),




17     and when they do, they inevitably produce waste and that




18     waste finds its way into the drains and will find its




19     way into the waste disposal system and, in due time,




      part of it will be absorbed or trapped in the waste




      and find its way to this dump.




22                      Again, analyses of these materials should




23     be done with varied quality control and by parties who




24     do not have a vested interest in the favorable analysis.




25     I had difficulty in finding quality controls at the

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                                                             43



      analysis of water supplies which are comparable to those




 2    that are required today  in our hospital  laboratories,



 3    and I see no reason why  there should be  a double



      standard,  you can have  one quality analysis to poison



 t    people and a much higher quality to try  to get them wel]



      again.  They should be the same.
 o


                       Again,  site selected.   The geology and



      the dynamics of the groundwater need to  be studied and



      studied effectively,  in the case down in Galveston,



      they are now looking at  the groundwater  after eight



      years of dumping in the  area and using this as a base



      line to try to determinewhether there is  leakage from



.,    this dump.  Now, this is a totally ludicrous practice.



. .    One needs to have good analyses done over a period of



„    time beforehand.



.,                     The idea that there should be some
10


,,    fifty-foot separation between a dump for toxic waste



,„    and groundwater has been recommended on  one occasion.



.„    It seems not unreasonable, but the problems are that
20
      there are, so frequently in this area, at  least,  lenses
21      (phonetic) of permeable material.  Barker-Addicks  Dam



22     was built by the corps of Engineers not twenty miles



23     from here.  It was supposed to keep the water on the



      top side of it.  It has got a lens of sand underneath



25     it and now they are having to do restorative work  to

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                                                             44




      prevent the leaking of the water underneath.  These are




 2    problems —




 3              CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE  (interposing):




 4                     Your time is up,  sir.




 5              DR. DAVID MARRACK:




 6                     Sorry, sir.  I was just about  there,  in




 7    fact,




 8                     One last point.   The rainwater off —




 9    in this area, the rainwater coming off these dumps needs




      to be  in some way collected and analyzed.




                       The idea that you should  let leachate




      permeate into the soil and not be  seen and never be




12    aialyzed and not know where it goes to me is unacceptable.




      You need a system that collects it up so you can see  it




.,    and analyze it.




                       Again, there are  the problems, as we




17    have already mentioned, from landfills where the leaching




      is uncontrolled, never seen, never known;  and,  yet, we




19    wonder how our water resources get so contaminated.




2Q                     I think these are the sorts of matters




      that need to be directed in what I think should be




22    regulations, and I notice a number of places here where




23    we fail to attack these matters.   And particularly one




24    point  I forgot to bring out is the fact that not only




25    the raw material goes into a dump, but the products

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                                                              45



      that are derived  from anaerobic digestion  and bacterial



 .    action  all need to be considered.   It  is not just the



 ,    primary toxic chemicals  that go in  --  it's their



 .    products after bacterial and anaerobic processes  that



 .    must be considered in every case.



                        Thank you.
 o


                CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:



 g                      Thank you.



 9                      Any  questions from the Panel?



                MR. WAYNE TUSA:



.                        I have  one comment.



                CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:



.,                      Go ahead.



u              MR. WAYNE TUSA:



                        I am sure you are  aware of that  the



.,    Sub Title B requirements do not allow  the  Office  of
lo


.      Solid Waste —



)8              DR. DAVID MARRACK  (interposing):



.                        pardon?



                MR. WAYNE TUSA (continuing):



-.                      The  sub Title B requirements set up by



32    RCRA do not allow OSW to set these  guidelines up  as a



23    regulatory action, that  is, —



24              DR. DAVID MARRACK  (interposing):



                        You  are asking for  public comment.  I

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                                                              46




  1    realize what  is  there,  but,  equally,  I  think it is  not




  2    satisfactory.  It  is  a  waste of  time  and effort,  for




  3    practical  purposes, as  I  see it,  and  I  point out to you




  4    that  you have  in here land  use controls —  we don't




  5    have  that  in  the State  of Texas.   There is  no zoning.




  6               MR.  WAYNE TUSA:




  7                     Well,  that is the intent of the law,




  8    State Programs and control  of solid waste disposal  for




  9    nonhazardous wastes.




 10               DR.  DAVID MARRACK:




 11                     I look at  the product  to see what




 12    happens at the other  end.  That  is what matters to




 13    society.




 14               MR.  WAYNE TUSA:




 15                     I should like to also  point out that




 16    there is a Section in the Guidelines  on surface run-off




 17    control, which deals  specifically with  contaminated




 18    run-off, which is  essentially designed  for  control




 19    catchment  of  any surface run-off which  might be released




 20    on  site.   That is  certainly not  the intent  of the




 21    Guidelines.




 22               CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:




 23                     Are  there  any questions from the




 24    audience?




25

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                                                              47




                 MR.  CARL BRASOW:




  2                     My name is  Carl Brasow.   I am a




  3    registered professional engineer,  and my comments are;




  4                     I believe  that the good Doctor really




  5    has  not followed the regulations as they are being pro-




       posed right now because I personally know that a large




  7    number of sites are being studied along the same lines




  8    that the Doctor suggested they should be,  that in fact




  9    there are engineers and there are geologists that take




       all  these factors into account, and I don't believe




 11     that all of them are as silly and stupid as you seem to




 12     imply about studying base line water quality or even




 13     conforming with the intent of the regulation.  It is




       almost an insult to our intelligence and our professional




 ls     integrity to say that this  is not being done.




                        I guess my  only comment would be, from




 17     your age,  where were you thirty years ago in starting




       the  same regulations that are now in fact being pro-




 19     posed and promulgated?  If you have been outraged for




 20     so many years,  then you should have been on the band




       wagon thirty years ago as you saw the results and the




 22     effects of toxic chemicals.




 23               DR.  DAVID MARRACK:




 24                      Are you suggesting I haven1t been?




25

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                                                             48




 1               MR. CARL BRASOW:




 2                      I am not suggesting that you are not.




 3     You didn't admit that you were, though.




 4                      You seem to believe that all of this




 5     has come upon us suddenly.  I believe that the intent




 4     and the purpose of the environmental laws is to clean




 7     up the very things that you suggested, and to think that




 8     there are not professional ethics out there or even in-




 9     dustrial ethics, I will grant you that there may be




10     certain industries and certain people within those




11     industries that neglect their, really, moral obligation




12     to the protection of the environment, but I do not be-




13     lieve you can make a blanket comment, and I think that




14     it is especially true in the Texas area where we realize




15     that there are problems, and I think that is being




16     attacked in the right direction.




17                      Thank you.




18               DR. DAVID MARRACK:




19                      May I respond, sir?




20               CHAIRMAN TRUETT BeGEARE:




2i                      pardon me?




22               DR. DAVID MARRACK:




23                      Can I respond?




24               CHAIRMAN TRUETT D6GEARE:




25                      I suggest —

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                                                              49




                 DR. DAVID MARRACK (interposing):




 2                      One,  I am glad to hear that there are




 3     people concerned.  I have been concerned for nearly




       thirty years.  I have been protesting,  too.  But,




 5     more important,  it only takes  one bad spill or con-




 .     tamination to damage a water resource for  all our




       lifetimes and for a lot longer.  This is the problem.




       It isn't the good cats.  I never said that  the regula-




       tions were not either  new or the need for them having




       been just recently recognized.  The problem is to get




 ..      them enforced.  And I deliberately cited two situations




 ..      which are current in this area which represent the kind




       of problems which, in spite of regulations, we are not




 ]4      doing what I consider  an adequate amount to protect the




 ._      health and welfare and our resources, particularly our




       water resources  and marine resources, in a  manner which




       I think we would be wise to do.  And I  throw no aspersions




       against anyone's regulations — they are surely needed,




       but they need to be regulations,  not guidelines, and




       that is one of the reasons they are being wiggled around




       at the present time.




 22                CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:




                        I understand  your point.




                        Thank you, sir.




25                       Mr. Don Betterton, please.

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                                                                50




  1                      Just  as  a reminder, and with no reflec-




  2     tion on the previous or upcoming speakers, we ask  you to




  3     keep your remarks to about ten minutes, please.





  4




  5





  6




  7




  8




  9




 10




 11




 12




 13




 14




 IS




 16




 17




 18




 19




 20




 21




 22




 23




 24




25

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                                                              51




  1                     STATEMENT OF DON BETTERTON




  2               MR. DON BETTERTON:




  3                      Thank you,  Mr. chairman,  panel.




  4                      My name is  Don Betterton.  I am Manager




  5     of the Environmental protection Department of Houston




       Lighting and Power Company.




                        I am appearing this morning on behalf of




       my company,  the Utility Solid Waste Activities Group,




       known as USWAG, and the Edison Electric Institute,




       known as EEI.




                        USWAG is an informal consortium of




 12     approximately 65 utility operating companies and the




 13     EEI.  EEI is the principal National Association of




       Investor-Owned Electric Light and power companies.




                        The principal fuel used for the generation




       of electricity is coal.  The combustion of coal creates




 17     large volumes of solid waste, particularly fly ash,




 18     bottom ash,  and flue gas emission control  sludges.




 19     The control  of these by-products under RCRA will




 20     seriously affect the operations and economics of the




 2)     electric utility industry.  Because of this significant




 22     impact, and  because of our responsibilities to operate




 23     in an environmentally responsible manner while main-




 24     taining an adequate energy supply for the  nation,




25     USWAG and EEI have commented and testified on substantially

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                                                             52




      all of the Agency's proposed RCRA regulations and guide-




 2     lines.




 3                      We have also submitted comments on




 4     environmental impact statements prepared in conjunction




 5     with earlier RCRA rule-making proposals.




                       As you may recall, Mr. James King




 7     of Florida Power and Light testified on behalf of




 a     USWAG and EEI on the proposed Landfill Disposal Guide-




      lines hearing held in Washington on Tuesday.  His comments




      were directed at the guidelines themselves, that is,




      the document published in the March 26th Federal Register.




12     I will not repeat those comments today.  Instead, I will




      address myself to the draft Environmental  Impact State-




14     ment that was released in support of the proposed guide-




„     lines.




,,                      We expect to file written comments




17     covering both the proposed guidelines and  the draft




      Environmental impact Statement.  I will, therefore, limit




      my statement to a brief description of four of our major




2Q     concerns with the draft EIS:  First, we believe that  this




2]     document fails to meet the recognized standards for




22     Environmental impact Statements; second, we believe that




23     the document contains information that more properly




24     should be part of the guidelines themselves; third, we




2s     believe that the document is potentially misleading in

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                                                              53




  1     its  technical  descriptions  of  landfill technologies;  and,




  2     fourth,  we  believe that cost estimates presented are




  3     simplistic  and misleading.




  4                      A major concern with the draft EIS is




  5     its  failure,  in our view, to meet the requirements  of an




  6     EIS.




  7                      An Environmental Impact Statement  is




  8     intended to be a document that will assist agencies in




  9     making  informed decisions and  not a repository of




 10     regulations, guidelines or  general background information.




 11                      To serve its  intended function, an




 12     EIS  must describe and objectively weigh all reasonable




 13     alternatives  to the proposed action.




 14                      Instead, this document describes the




 15     state of the  art in municipal  landfill design and opera-




 16     tion.   It does not describe or assess reasonable




 17     alternatives  to the landfilling of solid waste,  such as




 18     land spreading,  surface impoundments, and resource




 19     recovery.




 20                      Moreover,  it  should assess those al-




 2i     ternatives  separately for representative types of




 22     municipal and  industrial wastes,  including utility  waste.




 23                      Another major concern is that we believe




 24     it is inappropriate for EPA to use the draft EIS to




25     provide  the technical and economic description of the

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                                                             54




      level of performance of solid waste management practices




 2    that EPA is required to publish.




 3                     By regulating the great bulk of the




      substantive content of the guidelines to the draft EIS,




 5    the Agency has implicitly diminished the importance of




 ,    that information.  It also has minimized the likelihood
 o



      of comprehensive public comment within the sixty-day




      comment period.  As a practical matter, fewer people will




      see the EIS than will see the Federal Register.  There-




      fore, fewer people will comment.  This is clearly con-




 ,,     trary to the goals of the rule-making process and sound




 ..    public policy.



 ]3                      We do not believe incorporation by




      reference cures this defect.  USWAG urges EPA to re-




      propose in the Federal Register those portions of the




 .,     draft EIS which are intended to be incorporated into the
 lo


      guidelines.  This will give them appropriate visibility




 ,.    and give their "technical and economic descriptions"




 .„    meaningful exposure to public comment.



 .                      we are also concerned that the technical




      descriptions in the EIS are potentially misleading.




 .                      We commented at Tuesday's hearing in




-.     Washington that the proposed guidelines overemphasize




24     technologies primarily suited to municipal waste




25     landfills.  That overemphasis raises our concern because

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                                                              55




       some states may simply adopt the regulations as a check




  2     list for sanitary landfill status under Section 4004(a)




  3     Classification Criteria,  and improperly apply this check




       list to utility waste disposal facilities.




                        This same concern applies to the draft




       EIS.  Many of the unit technologies described in the




       draft EIS are wholly inappropriate for utility wastes.




  0     These include, for example, shredding, baling, com-
  o



  9     paction and daily cover for vector control.  Similarly,




 ..     gas control measures would be pointless for inorganic




       utility wastes.




                        There is no indication that leachate




 ,,     recycling, another municipal waste technology, is useful




 ,.     for landfills containing ash or scrubber sludge.




 „                      We urge that each description of an




 16     alternative landfill technology in the EIS include a




 ,7     clear statement that it is to be applied to a particular




       landfill only on an individual case-by-case basis.




       The choice of what technologies and practices to apply




 2Q     must depend on the characteristics of the particular in-




       tended landfill site.




 22                      With regard to the cost estimates con-




 23     tained in the EIS, we would like to make two brief




       comments.




25                      First,  these cost estimates appear to be

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                                                             56




      based primarily on experience with municipal solid waste




      facilities.  The EIS should recognize and consider the




 3     substantial variations in costs that result from differ-




 4     ences in the character of the waste being landfilled,




 5     and the substantial regional differences in the cost of




      certain materials and labor.




                       Second, the draft EIS excludes the cost




      of what may be the most expensive of the guideline




 9     recommendations — site selection.  We have commented




10     several times on the enormous burden that will be im-




      posed on utilities if we are restricted from siting in




12     potentially environmentally sensitive areas — especially




13     flood plains and wetlands.  We find it difficult to be-




      lieve that a document that purports to be an Environ-




      mental impact Statement can ignore the adverse environ-




      mental, energy and cost impacts of these broad siting
17     restrictions.
18
                       I appreciate the opportunity to present
jo    our comments.  We will follow with detailed comments




2Q    next week.




                       Thank you.




22              CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:




23                     Thank you.




24                     Are  there questions from the  panel?





25

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                                                              57




                 MR. WAYNE TUSA:




  2                      Will your detailed comments —




  3               A VOICE (interposing):




  4                      Mr. chairman,  I cannot hear this




  5     gentleman.




                 MR. WAYNE TUSA:




  7                      Will your detailed comments provide




  8     some suggestions as to which parts of the EIS you feel




  9     are appropriate, as far as the  guidelines?




 10               MR. DON BETTERTON:




                        We will.




 12                      We are making  a full review now, both




 )3     technical and substantive review, and we will file those




       with you by next Friday.




 15               MR. BERNARD STOLL:




                        By the same token, would you, if




       possible, include economic costs that you were re-




       ferring to, such as the increased cost of site selection




       in those detailed comments?




20               MR. DON BETTERTON:




                        Yes, s ir.




22               MR. BERNARD STOLL:




23                      So that we can utilize those.




24               MR. DON BETTERTON:
25
                        Yes.

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                                                              58




                CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:




 2                      I wonder if you could explain, given




 3    that the  job before us  is development of guidelines  for




 4    landfill  disposal of  solid waste, why that the EIS




 5    should weigh alternatives to landfills.  I am afraid




 .    I did not understand.




 7              MR. DON BETTERTON:




                        The  substance of that comment is that




      the EIS is used today to review alternatives, either




      alternative landfill  procedures and  to study the cost




      benefit relationships and make a decision on the most




 12    appropriate one for a given case, and here I think  the




      EIS really is a good  state of the art document, but




      really does not look  at the alternatives and weigh which




 .,    ones will be applied  on a cost benefit basis.  It simply




      presents  the cost and the current technology and leaves




      it at that.  It is just a matter of  the definition  in




      the present, current  use of impact statements.




 ,9              CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:




 2Q                      So,  you would say that the EIS should




 21     address recycling practices, for example?




 22               MR. DON BETTERTON:




 23                       Yes, sir, resource  recovery.  This  is




 24     a very important  aspect that we are  working on today




25     with the  fly ash  from our generating units.

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                                                              59




  1                      We will give some additional detail on




  2     this in our comments, also.




  3               CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:




  4                      I wish you would because on the face of




  5     the comment, it just is not clear why the EIS on the




       proposed regulation should address those factors, those




  7     kinds of alternatives.




  8                      I can understand how it should address




  9     alternative landfill procedures which might be addressed




 10     in the guideline, but my problem is why or how it should




       address alternatives to landfill, given that the job




       before us is to develop guidelines for landfill and not




 ]3     for resource recovery or collection or other processes.




 14               MR. DON BETTERTON:




 15                      0. K.   We will try to cover that more




       in our written comments.




 17               CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:




 18                      Thank you.




 19               MR. DON BETTERTON:




 20                      Thank you.




 21               CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:




 22                      Are there any questions from the




 23     audience?




 24                      Yes, sir?




25

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                                                              60




 1               MR. R. M.  ROBINSON:




 2                     I am R.  M.  Robinson,  Continental Oil




 3     Company.




 4                     I fail to understand  Mr.  DeGeare's




 5     question  there,  inasmuch  as  that seems to  be the gut




 6     issue.  if  you do things  that  do not require landfilling,




 7     or  how can  you reduce the amount of landfilling you  need,




 8     it  appears  to me is  part  of  what the EIS should speak to.




 9              CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:




10                      I guess  I viewed it differently.




                       I think  the Act, the  Solid Waste




12      Disposal  Act, in its entirety,  is addressed to various




13      aspects of  solid waste management.




14                      The concern before us today is




       development of a particular  guideline  for  a particular




       practice.  Given that that is  the practice and the job




17      before us,  to develop a guideline for  that practice, it




18      didn't seem appropriate to me,  to be addressing other




       practices in the draft Environmental Impact Statement




20      on  that proposed guideline.




21               MR. R. M.  ROBINSON:




22                      This is  now the Resource  Conservation




23      Recovery  Act.  We have outlived the old Solid Waste




24      Disposal  Act,  I  believe.





25

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                                                              61




  1               CHAIRMAN TRUETT D6GEARE:




  2                      The Amendment is entitled The Resource




  3     Conservation and Recovery Act of 1976.  The Act still is




  4     the Solid Waste Disposal Act as Amended by RCRA.




  5                      My point is that this draft EIS is not




       a draft EIS on the Act.  It is a draft EIS on the




       regulation on a particular practice.




                        I don't mean to be argumentative, but —




                 MR. R. M. ROBINSON (interposing):




                        The reduction of landfill seems to me




 11     to be part of — the reduction of need for landfills is




 12     part of the issue.




 13               MR. BERNARD STOLL:




 14                      Sir, we have,  as mentioned in the intro-




 15     ductory remarks, there are other mandatory regulations




 \(>     which have been developed under RCRA, and one of those




 17     is the criteria for solid waste disposal facilities.




 18     That document looks at all three forms of disposal and




 19     alternative practices to disposal.  We felt that that




 2Q     was an appropriate place to discuss alternative practices,




       whereas, in this document which was supposed to be in-




 22     formational in nature, we chose only to look at, if you




 23     are going to landfill solid waste, what are the alterna-




 24     tive practices for doing that?




25               CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEAREs




                       Mr.  Bill Lewis,  please.

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                                                             62




 1                      STATEMENT OF BILL LEWIS




 2               MR. BILL LEWIS:




 3                      Mr. Chairman, I am Bill Lewis, Member of




 4     the House of Representatives, State of Arizona for the




 5     last eleven years, and prior to that was Public Information




      Officer with the State of Arizona Game and Fish Department




      for nine years.  So, I guess I have been an environmentalist




 g     of type for at least twenty years — actively.




 9                      Mr. Keston, our second speaker, stole most




      of my thunder.




                       Ours is a mining state, as I think most




      of you know.  it is one of our most important industries.




13     The gentleman from Continental oil could tell you more




      about it.  They have an extensive holding for a new copper




      mine in Arizona, and we produce presently about 50 per




      cent of the world's copper supply comes from our state.




.,                      We have many mill tailings and slag dumps,




]g     and we have pretty adequate laws to take care of them in




,„     Arizona, and I guess if I am going to say anything today




      it is to urge EPA not to superimpose their regulations on




      states that are already doing a good job.




..                      We have our own problems.  No two states




._     have the same problems.  Our problem is different than the




      State of Washington or the State of Maine or South




25     Carolina.  There are no two states that have the same

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                                                             63
 1 I    problems.
 2                      We have done, I think, a very adequate
 2     job in policing our own areas as far as solid waste is
 ^     concerned and its disposal.
 ,                      I would say that we can use some help
      on new plans for garbage disposal and things like that —
 6
      fine.  But not in the way of mill tailings and smelter
      refuse, if you will, slag dumps and things like this,
 o
 o     because we have done a pretty good job and we have adequate
      laws to protect our citizens from this sort of landfill
      and solid waste disposal at the present time.
                       We have a new law that went into effect
      just last summer, which I wrote and managed to get it
      enacted — the Governor signed it — for radioactive waste
14
      tailings, uranium dumps, if you will.  That is becoming
      a bigger and bigger operation in Arizona.
16
j                      We have some very extensive uranium ore
      bodies,  union 76 is working one of them right now that
18
      falls under our Agencies.  Shell Oil is also working one.
      We have another one that is being explored at the present
      time by EXXON.  And West Germany, believe it or not, is
      actively working a uranium field in Arizona.
23                      So, I think we are on top of it.  we haus
.     very extensive regulations for these people.
                       Well, again,  I say, please, if a state is

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                                                               64





 1    doing  a good job,  don't make us do it your way  —  let us





 2    do  it  our way.   I  think that is the basis of my statement.





 3               CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:





 4                      Thank you, sir.




 5                      Are there any questions?




                        (No response.)





                 CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:





                        Thank you.





 9                      Mr. J. westney, Houston, Chamber of





10    Commerce.





11





12




13





14





15




16




17




18





19





20





21





22





23





24





25

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                                                              65




                       STATEMENT OF JACK WESTNEY




 2               MR.  JACK WESTNEY:



 3                      I am Jack Westney,  representing the Houston




 4     Chamber  of Commerce,  and I appreciate the opportunity to



 ,     make  this  presentation on behalf of  the Board of Directors




       and the  Membership of the Houston Chamber of Commerce.
 o



                        The  Houston Chamber of Commerce is a




 o     voluntary  organization of approximately 6500 business and




 9     professional establishments  working  together for the better




 10     ment  of  our Houston area.




 ..                       One  of the  chamber's goals  is to enhance




 .-      the quality of the environment without unduly hindering




 .,      the continued economic development that provides benefits




 .      and opportunities to  all of  the residents in this area.




 15                       The  chamber appreciates this opportunity




       of  making  specific comments  on the EPA's guidelines, with




 17      respect  to locating solid waste management facilities in




       environmentally sensitive areas.  In these guidelines,



       as  well  as in  other proposed EPA regulations,  the EPA



 20      appears  to be  indicating to  state and federal land planners




       that  solid waste should rarely,  if ever, be  disposed of




 22      in  coastal areas such as Houston.




23                       Anyone who  is familiar with the growth




24      and development of the Houston area  is fully aware of the




25      tremendous efforts that people have  made to  establish this

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                                                             66




      community in an area which once was nothing more than a




 2     swamp.  The community is proud of these accomplishments,




 3     which are continuing today.




 4                      Along with this growth and development




 5     has come an increasingly solid waste problem.  We have




      sought to deal with this problem with the same degree of




      ingenuity and human creativity that went into the over-




      all development of our community.




                       We are one of the few communities that




      has attempted to incinerate our garbage as a means of




 .     disposal; and one of the country's first recycling




      facilities was constructed here.  However, through these




      developments, we have learned that incineration and




      resource recovery have not been developed to the point




      of completely answering our solid waste problems; there-




.,     fore, we have found that, at least as an interim measure,




 .,     landfilling of garbage is still a major means of solving




.„     the solid waste problem.




                       If we are unable to locate solid waste




      disposal facilities within reasonable hauling distance




..     from our population centers, we will quickly reach a




-.     crisis situation.




                       On the basis of our review of the




..     proposed guidelines for landfill disposal of solid waste,




      we believe that the EPA staff, in their over-all development

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                                                              67




  1     of these guidelines  has  used sound  judgment.  We  must




  2     compliment the  staff on  this practical  experience approach




  3     to the problem.   This approach appears  to  have  been aimed




  4     at achieving the ends of the Act in the most  cost-effective




  5     manner,  on a site-specific basis.




                        As  a part of the consuming public, who




       must  pay for the facilities to be built under these regu-




       lations, we applaud  the  consideration given to  the site-




       specific approach in these guidelines.




                        However,  there are some parts  of these




       guidelines which we  wish to emphasize that should remain




 12     as guidelines.   We are concerned that recommendations




 12     such  as  those dealing with site selection  in  Paragraph




       241.200-2, may  eliminate consideration  of  all environ-




       mentally sensitive areas as potential disposal  sites,




       even  when reasonable alternatives to such  sites may be




       economically or  practically infeasible.




                        Each site proposal should be considered




       on its own individual merits,  and without  regard  to




 2Q     opposition, which is unfounded by sound technical or




       other applicable criteria.




 22                      The same  reasoning applies to  paragraph




 23     241.207-2, which could force operators  into large




 24     expenditures for outside consulting advice, with  little




25     justification and no guarantee that their  operation would

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                                                              68



      be  approved.



 2                     We ask  simply  that  these  requirements  would



 3    be  used  as  guidelines, and  on a case-by-case,  site-specific



 4    basis.



 5                     In summary, we applaud the  efforts  of  the



      EPA staff  in  developing  these landfill  guidelines  as



      being  a  reasonable approach to  managing the  solid  waste



      problem  in  all  areas  of  the country.



                       Only tnrough an effective and realistic



      program  of  managing solid waste may  we  maintain the  growth



      and quality of  life in the  Houston area.



                       Thank you.



]3                CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:



                       I think there  are no questions from the



      panel.



                       I appreciate your being with us.
16


                       Are  there  any  questions from the  audience?



]g                       (No  response.)



]9                CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:



                       Thank you, sir.



                       Mr.  Jim Greco, Browning-Ferris



„     industries.




23



24



25

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                                                             69




                     STATEMENT OF JAMES R. GRECO




 2               MR. JAMES R. GRECO:




 3                      My name is Jim Grejfo, and I am employed




      by Browning-Ferris industries. Inc.




 5                      My responsibilities with Browning-Ferris




      are those of the Director of its Government and industry
 6



 ,     Affairs program.




 0                      We have prepared formal testimony and I
 o



 q     will generally follow that, but i will abbreviate it so




      as to keep my remarks within the ten-minute time frame,




..     and we will be submitting written comments by the dead-




.-     line next week.




..                      We have reviewed the proposed 1008




      Guidelines and we recognize the importance of such in-




      formation to State Regulatory Agencies, facility




,.     operators, and the general public.
lo


                       We feel that greater awareness, and




      implementation of the guidelines will stimulate an




      enhanced level of environmental protection.



                       Additionally, we commend the Agency for




      expressing in the preamble to the Guidelines that:




„                      "In promulgating these guidelines,




                EPA is certifying that they represent sound




                solid waste management practices ..."




                       We also commend the Agency for allowing

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                                                             70



 ,     flexibility in many instances to fulfill the general re-



 .     quirements in the guidelines.  An example is acknowledge-



 3     ment is made in Section 241.202-1 of two differing



 .     approaches for managing landfill leachate.



 ,                      Pursuant to our review, some primary



      concerns we wish to bring to the Agency's attention per-
 6


      tain to the uncertainty faced by disposal facility



      designers and operators with respect to the interpreta-
 8


      tion of what may actually be required to obtain a permit



      and maintain that permit.  Numerous sections of the



      guidelines are subjective or can lead to subjective



      determination, such as the definition of "wetlands,"



      the siting of facilities in environmentally sensitive



      areas and the associated "alternatives" study, the
14


      requirement for a "minimum allowable thickness for both



      natural and artificial liner materials," and use of an
16


      environmental impact statement.
17


                       We recognize that the proposed rule is
18


      only a guideline; however, it is likely that State



      Environmental Agencies, the public, and perhaps our



      judicial system will employ or reference the guidelines



      as exact measuring mechanisms.  Hence, we hope that



      reasonable, practicable and consistent determinations



      will result when the guidelines are used.
24


                       Regarding specific recommendations, we

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                                                              71




 1    suggest:




 2                     On  Page  18139 revision of the  fourth




 3    paragraph under  Site Section -- we suggest replacing




 4    the word "may" with  "can" so that paragraph will read:




 5                     "These guidelines, however, recognize




                that location of a landfill  disposal  facility




                in a generally  unsuitable area  (environmentally




                sensitive  areas, zones of active faults, and




                karstterrain) can be possible through the




                application of  proper, and in some cases




                sophisticated,  engineering techniques for




                design and operation."




                       On  Page  18141 the definition for




      "plans" we suggest be revised so that  they are  prepared




      or approved by professionals.  Right now  it just requires




      that they be prepared by  professionals.




                       On  Page  18142 we suggest that  Section




18    241.200-2(a), which  is pertinent to recommended




19    practices for site selection in environmentally sensitive




2Q    areas, that that section be interpreted as a general




      guideline and that a statement be added noting  that a




22     landfill facility may be sited in such areas provided that




23     appropriate considerations be incorporated into the




24     design and operation of the facility.




25                      Specifically the following is suggested

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                                                              72





 1     for that section:




 2                      "In general, environmentally sensitive




 3               areas, including wetlands,  100-year flood




 4               plains, permafrost areas, critical habitats




 5               of endangered species, and  recharge zones of




                sole  source aquifers should be avoided, if




                feasible, or receive lowest priority  as




                potential locations for  landfill disposal




                facilities.  Location of a  landfill disposal




                facility in a generally  unsuitable area  can




                be possible through the  application of proper,




                and in some cases, sophisticated engineering




                techniques for  design and operation."




]4                      On page  18142 in  Section 241.200-2(a)(1)




      the statement,  "Increased costs alone, should not  be




,,     sufficient grounds for dismissing  an  alternative ..." can




      be inaccurate and inappropriate, if interpreted literally.




      There may well  be an occasion when the cost impact is




      extreme, such that increased costs, alone, for  an  al-




2Q     ternative, can  be a sufficient reason for locating a




      facility in an  environmentally sensitive area.




22                      On page"18143, we feel Section 241.201-2 (c)




      is redundant and too all-encompassing.  So long as back-




      ground water samples are  analyzed  and the flood zones are




25     established, this recommended practice should not  be

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                                                              73



  1     necessary.


  2                      Lastly,  on Page  18143 we  feel that the


  3     statement,  "Landfill leachate generation cannot be


  4     avoided except in some arid climates  ..."  is  inaccurate.


  5     We suggest  that it read:


  ,                      "Leachate control measures for water
    I

                quality protection should be incorporated


                in the site design, as  required."


                        The above-noted  recommendations,  we feel,


       can enhance the practicality of the proposed  guidelines


       and minimize the economic impact  without sacrificing


       safety or environmental protection levels.


                        We are pleased to participate in  this


       rule-making process and are supportive of  the Agency's


 .,     efforts to  promulgate guidelines  that will  identify and


       describe available practices which provide  for the pro-


       tection of  public health  and the  environment.


                        Such conscientious efforts can well lead


 19     to greater  public understanding of and confidence  in both


 2Q     the ability of environmental agencies to properly  regulate


 21     disposal practices and the capability of facility


 22     operators to safely and soundly design,  construct  and


 23     operate landfills.


 24                      Solid waste landfill disposal facilities


25     are a  necessary part of an over-all solid waste management

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                                                             74



      system, whether as the primary disposal method or a
                           *


 2     compatible feature of a resource recovery program.



 3     Whatever system a community implements, however, the



      public demands protection of public health and the



 5     environment.  These guidelines, we feel, are a significant



 ,     step in that direction.



                       We would be pleased to answer any ques-



      tions from the Panel or which the audience may have



      relative to these guidelines.



                MR. BERNARD STOBL:



                       One of your comments, Mr. Greco,



.      related to the analysis of alternatives, alternatives



.,     to locations in environmental sensitive areas, and you



      commented upon our statement in the guidelines,  "In-



      creased costs, alone should not be sufficient grounds



      for dismissing an alternative ...", you indicated that
16


      you could perceive situations where increased costs,



,„     alone, of the alternative may be sufficient.
to


                       Could you elaborate on that a little



      bit, please.



21               MR. JAMES R. GRECO:



22                      The point I was trying to make  is that



23     in a given community increased costs for an alternative



      to a landfill disposal facility, such as a different



25     kind of waste processing facility or a resource  recovery

-------
                                                              75





 1     plant,  the increased costs associated with that alternative




 2     may be  much too high for the community to accept or bear




 3   i  the burden; and, therefore,  relative to incorporating




 4     safe practices for locating a landfill in an environ-




 5     mentally sensitive area, you can do it and you should




       do it,  but the increased costs alone of the alternative,




       which may well be the reason for denying location of a




       landfill in an environmentally sensitive area, that may




 9     likely  happen.  We are saying that that is an extreme




 10     requirement and should not be a determination, the only




 11      determination.




 )2                MR. BERNARD STOLL:




                        Thank you.




 14                CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:




 15                       Any other questions from Members of




       the panel?




 17                       (No response.)




 18                CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:




 19                       Are there any questions from the




 20      audience?




                        (No response.)




 22                CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:




 23                       Thank you for your remarks.




 24                       Mr. Herbert McKee.





25

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                                                              76




  1                  STATEMENT OF HERBERT C. McKEE




  2         'MR. HERBERT C. McKEE:




  3                     Thank you, Mr.  Chairman,  and Members  of




  4    the  panel.




  5                     My  name is Herbert  McKee.   I am the




      Assistant Health Director for  the City  of  Houston,  and




      with me  is  Mr.  Enrique Quevedo,  who  is  the chief of the




      Public Health Engineering Bureau within the  City of




      Houston  Health  Department.  We would like  to present our




      comments together  as a single  presentation representing




      the  Health  Department.




12                     Mr. Quevedo will address  specific




      details  concerning the proposed  guidelines that were




      published in the Federal Register of March 26 and I would




      like to  follow  that  with a  few more  general  comments




      about some  of the  problems  of  landfill  management and




,-,    control  related to the guidelines, but  not aimed at




      specific details.




                       So, Mr. Quevedo will speak  first.




20              CHAIRMAN TRUETT  DeGEARE:




                       All right.   I see no reason to confine




      you  to a combined  ten-minute  time restriction.   So, feel




      free to  take ten minutes  each.




24              MR. HERBERT  C. McKEE:




25                     Thank you.

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                                                              77




 1                     STATEMENT OF  ENRIQUE QUEVEDO




 2                MR.  ENRIQUE QUEVEDO:




 3                       Thank you.




 4                       My name is  Enrique Quevedo.   I  am chief




 5      of  the  Public  Health Engineering Bureau of the Department




 4      of  Public  Health of the City of Houston.




 7                       As you have probably noticed,  I do have




 8      a heavy accent and  if you miss  some of my remarks, please




 9      don't hesitate to interrupt  me.




10                       In general, we were extremely pleased




11      to  see  the guidelines written as such.  The positive




12      points  are many.




13                       Specifically,  we were very happy to see




14      the guidelines recognize the social factors involved in




15      any landfill operation, specifically on an area  such as




U      Houston.   They have become increasingly important.




17                       Furthermore, we were very  happy to see




18      an  attempt to  relate the guidelines and, therefore,




19      forthcoming regulations with Section 208 of Public Law




20      92500 in regard to  the contaminated run-off,  et  cetera.




21                       Nevertheless,  in having in mind the




22      fact that  we are still talking  about guidelines, we




23      would like to  refer to a couple of paragraphs and




24      attempt to make a point in behalf of the Public  Health




25      of  Citizens of the  city of Houston.

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                                                             78




 1                      Specifically, it is our belief that the




 2     regulations for coming criteria and, therefore, the guide-




 3     lines should address perhaps in a stronger manner the




 4     possibility of, for that matter, the denial of the




 3     possibility, for landfill operations to be established




      in environmentally sensitive areas.




                       We don't deny, as an engineer myself,




      the engineering feasibility of such operations.  What




 9     we have learned, nevertheless, through a number of years,




10     is that regardless of engineering applications and all




      proposals in practice such landfills may become quite




      hazardous.




                       We are specifically talking about aquifer




      possibilities in areas that tend to flood.  These we




      would like to see a stronger wording in the final guide-




      lines and, for that matter, any regulations adopted by




      the state, simply emphasizing that such landfills would




      not be permitted.




,9                      What we are talking about, as I just




      heard about economic feasibility, this is an important




      factor, specifically on these types of operations simply




22     because, regardless of whether a permit was granted on




23     a given engineering proposal, economics may bring about




      the feasibility of the project itself.  And here we




      will be, as Public Health Officials, stuck with a

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                                                              79



       so-called judicial case.




  2                      Regardless of how fast we may act upon




  3     an individual case, the judicial system is such that if




       any such case arises, the possibility of contamination




  5     to aqudfer, drinking water supplies, et cetera, would




  ,     then become a reality, or at least a significant possi-
  o



       bility.



                        Our main concern, again, emphasizing




       that we do understand that we are talking about guide-




       lines, is to make it feasible if not totally impossible




 ..     for sensitive and environmentally sensitive areas to




       be used as possibilities for landfill site operations.




                        Landfill operations are here to stay —




 ,.     at least for some time.  We do understand so.  They can



       be operated in a safe manner for any public health




 ,.     considerations and/or standards.  Nevertheless, we have
 io


 .-     to emphasize, "as much caution as possible" and there-




       fore, don't tempt Mother Nature and economics into




 19     which could result in public health hazards.




                        Mr. Chairman,  that is the extent of my



       comments.




22               MR. HERBERT C. MCKEE:




                        Why don't we continue, then.  We can




       answer questions about the entire presentation, if there




25     are any.

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                                                             80




 1                   STATEMENT OF HERBERT C. MCKEE




 2               MR. HERBERT C. McKEE:




 3                      The topic I would like to address is a




 4     little broader in scope than some of the details in




 5     the guidelines, and that topic is the responsibility




      of different levels of Government in the fields of




 7     environmental control, and, more specifically, solid




 8     waste management and landfill licensing and operation.




 9                      First of all, I think the use of the




10     term "guidelines" in this instance is quite appropriate.




      There are areas in which legal regulations are needed




12     which allow no flexibility, but there are also areas in




13     which regulations tend to be too inflexible and too




14     binding and where some flexibility is needed.




                       A set of guidelines such as we are dis-




      cussing here makes it possible for local agencies to




17     utilize their knowledge of local conditions and local




18     problems and to develop the best control measures that




19     will meet the objectives of Federal legislation without




20     being bound by some of the legal requirements of regula-




2i     tions that may not be completely applicable at the local




22     level.




23                      There are two reasons why I think local




24     agencies are important and why their activities are




25     important.

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                                                             81





  1                     First of all, if a citizen has a complaint




  2    about a landfill, whether it is a odor problem or water




      seepage into a near-by waterway or whatever it is, he




      may call EPA in the Dallas Regional office or in Washing-




      ton, or he may call one of the state Agencies in Austin.




  6    But in a great majority of the times he will call a




  7    local governmental agency.  in this particular area




  g    that means either the city of Houston Health Department




      or the Harris County pollution Control Agency.




 10                     If we get a complaint of that nature and




 11    if we happen to have a Field Inspector over on that




 12    side of town in one of our radio-equipped cars, he may




 13    be out there inspecting and investigating that problem




 14    in as little as ten or fifteen minutes.  Many times it




 15    will take somewhat longer than that.  But in almost any




      case a local agency can get there quicker and investigate




 17    sooner than a State or Federal Agency.




 18                     The second reason why I think local




 19    agencies are important is that they have already been




 20    out in that neighborhood, perhaps looking at that landfill,




 21    certainly looking at water quality problems along the




 22    stream or river, looking at local industries and their




23    emissions into the atmosphere or their discharges into




 24    that river, or looking at local environmental conditions




25    that are important.  One illustration of the importance

-------
                                                             82




      of that, Houston is the fifth largest city in the country,




 2    with an urban population of about two and a quarter




 3    million.  it has all of the urban problems of any urban




      area of similar size, but, in addition, we have a very



 ,    large, heavy industrial manufacturing complex which




      far exceeds in scope and complexity the manufacture
 6


 _    and operations in many other cities of similar size.




 „    So, we are used to the urban problems and solid waste
 o



      disposal problems, the water supply problems, the




..    sewage treatment problems, and so on.   But we are




..     also familiar with the industrial problems of the



..     Houston Ship Channel area and some of the other




      problems of the Houston Region.




                       I think that perhaps a major omission



      from the guidelines in the March 26th Federal Register,




      insofar as we know, and omission from other EPA regula-




17    tions and publications, is a set of principles, or




18    perhaps a set of guidelines that will identify the



      role and the responsibilities of State and Local




2Q    Governments in more detail than they are defined at




      the present time.




22                     I think sometimes there is a tendency,




23    and perhaps it is in part subconscious, for a Federal




24    authority to pre-empt State and Local Agencies in




25     many areas.  I suppose there are two reasons for that.

-------
                                                              83



  1     One is the multi-million dollar  budget  of  EPA, which




  2     far surpasses the resources  of State  and Local Agencies;




  3     and,  second,  perhaps,  is the Constitutional  primacy




  4     of Federal authority over State  and Local  authority.




  5                      I would not imply that we have  any objec-




  6     tion to Federal authority and Federal responsibilities




  7     in the environmental control field,  we welcome  those




       responsibilities and those activities.




                        First of all, there  are interstate




       problems which Constitutionally  are a responsibility




 11     of the Federal Government.  There  are research and




 12     development needs which can  be met more effectively




 13     by a single comprehensive national R and D Program than




       specific State Programs or a large number  of Local




 15     programs.




                        We sometimes need a  back-up when problems




 17     exceed either our resources  or our geographical  area




       of jurisdiction.




 19                      So,  there are a lot  of ways in  which




 20     the Federal authority is a very  useful  tool  for  us and




       as an additional safeguard for the citizens  of this




 22     area.




 23                      But I think some  spelling out,  some




 24     set of principles that specify how these different




25     levels of government react and interact with each

-------
                                                             84




 1     other would be helpful.




 2                     I might mention that State Laws  in Texas




 3    makes this sort of a delegation with respect to Local




 4    Governments.  That has been true for a  long time  in




 5    our health and sanitation  legislation.   In more recent




 6    years,  it has been true in the State Radiation Control




 7    Act, the Texas Clean Air Act, the Texas  Water Quality




      Act, the Solid Waste Act,  and other environmental




      legislation.




                       One approach, perhaps,  for making such




      a  statement of principles  would be something comparable




      to the  so-called 208 Planning, which was a mandatory




13     part of Public Law 92500,  the Federal Water pollution




      Control Act.  That planning was a very  complex operation,




      very frustrating, very long and drawn out for the people




      who were involved in it.   I guess if we  started that




      208 Planning all over again today, everybody involved  in




      it would do something different from what they did




      before.  And the implementation will be  complex and




2Q     frustrating and long and drawn out.  But for all  those




      difficulties, there is a major advantage in this  because




22     the 208 Plan for the Houston Region says who is going




23     to do what.  It identifies and allocates the responsi-




24     bilities for a continuing  planning operation, for the




25     construction of facilities, for the operation and

-------
                                                              85




       maintenance of those facilities, for enforcement actions,




  2     for financing, and we know what our responsibilities




  3     are in the wastewater control field as the City of




  4     Houston Health Department with far more certainty than




  5     we know what our responsibilities are with respect to




  .     landfills or other solid waste disposal problems.




  ,                      I think we certainly do not need sotne-




       thing as complex and as involved as the 208 Planning




       process, but something on that approach which spells




       out the responsibilities of different levels of Govern-




       ment and to which those different Governmental Agencies




       can agree would certainly be helpful in this area also.




 13                      Mr. chairman, that concludes our formal




       presentation.  We will be glad to answer any questions




       that we can.




 16               CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:




                        Are there any questions from the Panel




       Members?




                        (No response.)




 20               CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:




                        I would just like to mention that we




 22     don't have a regulation for everything, but we do have




 23     a regulation that should be promulgated in June of this




       year that will speak to planning and development of




25     State Solid Waste Management Programs under our granting

-------
                                                              86




  1     system,  and  that  regulation,  I  think  you will  find will




  2     address  the  relative  roles  of Government to the  extent




  3     that  you were  speaking  of.   I hope  that that will




  4     satisfy  the  need  that you indicate  that you seek.




  5               MR.  HERBERT C.  McKEE:




                        Well,  thank you.   I  think  that  this  is




       important  and  we  will look  forward  to that  and would  like




       to  comment on  it  when it  is proposed.




  9                      I  guess,  to some  extent, I would share




 10     the concerns of the legislative representative from




 11     Arizona.   I  think we  have done  a good job in Texas.




 12     Our controls have become  more and more complete  and more




 13     and more appropriate  as they have been developed by




       changes  in legislation  and  by experience on learning




 15     on  the part  of the  Agencies involved, and I think we




       have  a reasonably good  system right now for permitting




 17     of  landfills by the State Health Department and  for




       monitoring and surveillance of  those  landfills once




 19     they  are in  operation.




 20                      I  think  we are in  better shape  now than




       we  have  been at various times in the  past and  I  don't




 22     think we are creating anything  analogous to Love Canal




 23     today, but,  certainly,  as in any other city in the




 24     country, there can  be no  absolute  assurance that we




25     don't have something  twenty or  thirty years old

-------
                                                              87




  1     lurking back in the shadows analogous to that that might




  2     becoms more evident in the future.  But I do not think we




  3     are creating that type of a situation today, or at least




  4     ~L think our chances of creating it are extremely remote.




  5     Nothing is absolute, but I think we do have an effective




  ,     system of controls that has been developed over a period




  7     of years and at the moment, at least at the local level,




       we are not aware of any major limitations or lack of




       authority or lack of adequate control and surveillance




       of landfills.




 n               CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:




 12                      Thank you.




                        Are there any questions from the




       audience?




 15                      (No response.)




 ,6               CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:




                        Thank you.




 18               MR. HERBERT C. MCKEE:
 19
                        Thank you, Mr. chairman.
20               CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:




                        Mr. Angus MacPhee.   Ms. Becky Drew




22     will be speaking for Mr. MacPhee.





23




24




25

-------
                                                              88

                                         •n
 I                      STATEMENT OF BECKY ^
-------
                                                              89




       landfill facilities in a manner that will protect public




  2     health and the environment.




  3                      Furthermore,  these guidelines, when




  4     implemented and followed by operators of landfill dis-




  5     posal facilities, should result in a general upgrading




       of the state of the art for disposal technologies.




  7                      Regarding numerous particular sections




  g     of the guidelines,  for example, as to design, leachate




  9     control,  gas control,  operation,  et cetera,  I am pleased




 10     with the flexibility allowed by the "recommended




 11     practices" in order to achieve and fulfill the "general




 12     requirements."  Such flexibility is necessary as is the




 13     reasonable and practicable interpretation of the require-




       ments by regulatory agencies and the public.




 15                      To the extent practicable,  I hope such




       interpretation is also uniformly applied among the




 17     States.




 18                      Thank you.




 19               CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:




 20                      Thank you very much.




 2]                      Mr. Steven Taub.




 22




 23




 24




25

-------
                                                              90




                       STATEMENT OF STEVEN TAUB




 2              MR. STEVEN TAUB:




 3                     Thank you.




 4                     My name is Steven Taub.   I am Vice-




 5    President of Process and Engineering Development, Stablex




 6    corporation.




                       We will submit our written remarks




      prior  to the deadline.




                       Stablex Corporation has since 1974




10    operated Land Reclamation Centers in the united Kingdom




11  I   and Japan.




..                     Raw materials necessary to produce




,,     Stablex, an inert rock-like land reclamation  material,




..     can be  found in several areas as a result  of  industrial
14  I



      activity.  These raw materials are produced by various




,,     industries as waste by-products of their operations.




17    Most of these, some of which are potentially  toxic,




      or hazardous, are often disposed of  indiscriminately




._    in an  environmentally unacceptable fashion.




                       in the early 1970's,  Stablex researchers




      and engineers discovered and developed what is now  a




22    patented process that converts many  of these  by-product




23     wastes  to valuable  land reclamation  material  that




24     exhibits exceptionally good environmental  compatibility




25     and structural integrity.

-------
                                                              91




  1                      The process through which Stablex




  2     material is manufactured relies on a crystal capture




  3     mechanism wherein waste by-product raw materials form




  4     chemical bonds with additives,  creating a polymer-like




  5     matrix or rock-like substance.




  6                      Through its seal-a-safe service,




  7     Stablex Corporation offers both industry and surrounding




  8     communities an unusual opportunity -- for the former,




  9     a method to eliminate a problem in an effective manner




 10     with utmost safety; and, for the latter, a way to  reclaim




 11     and return to productive use otherwise derelict land.




 12                      Stablex Corporation proposes to es-




 13     tablish seal-a-safe service throughout various parts




 14     of the United states.  Facilities will be erected  to




 15     manufacture Stablex material from process additives and




 16     compatible pre-tested raw materials, including those




 17     considered to be potentially toxic and hazardous wastes.




 18                      Stablex material will be used to  reclaim




 19     derelict land in areas contiguous to its conversion




 20     facility.




 21                      Of major importance in the successful




 22     conversion of potentially toxic and hazardous waste




 23     materials to inert product is the screening and




 24     determination of the material's compatibility with the




25     process.

-------
                                                             92




                       As with all processes, it is of crucial




 2     importance to make certain that only materials of suitable




 3     quality are received so that the end product meets all




      desired specifications.




 5                      As is normal with production processes,




 ,     raw material quality control must be maintained.  There-




      fore, prior to agreeing to accept a particular material




      for conversion to the Stablex Land Reclamation Product,




      a series of pre-process tests are performed to insure




      the material's compatibility with the process, and to




. j     insure that it can be successfully converted to high




..     quality land reclamation material.




,.                      When materials are received at the




      facility, checks are made to determine  that the materials




 ,     received are similar to those already contracted for.




      This saves in the quality control of the  final product




      and allows personnel at the plant to direct the material




 ,0     to the proper storage facilities.
 lo



 .„                      From temporary storage,  various materials




 _-     are brought together in a stock preparation area in which




 21     pre-treatment additives are added to insure that the




      final product meets all necessary specifications.




 23                      Finally, utilizing final processing




      additives and the processing unit, the  product is




25     produced.

-------
                                                              93




                        The product is  utilized for a useful




       purpose.   For example,  land reclamation.




                        There  are  many  thousands of acres  in




 4     various parts of the united States,  for  example,  strip




 5     mines,  abandoned quarries,  et cetera,  that are in need




       of land reclamation. The price  for  clean fill in many




       parts  of  the country is typically $4.00  per yard




       minimum.   At this price it  is economically prohibitive




       to restore an otherwise derelict land  area to its natural




       condition in which it could become produce and useful




       again.




12                      The product supplied  by Stablex  Corpor-




       ation  is  utilized for land  reclamation purposes,  it




       is not  a  waste product.




                        The product is  a useful substitute for




       expensive clean fill.




                        Traditional treatment of disposal




       strategies for waste, including  those  potentially toxic




       and hazardous,  can result in unacceptable and problemati-




20     cal long-term solutions for the  current  waste disposal




       problem.




22                      The stablex facility  actually converts




23     material  to  a useful product,  whereas, landfills  are




24     operated  to  store materials or hold  partially converted




25     materials  in earthen cells  for many  years,   placement

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                                                              94




 1     of materials into land and then buying the materials  fits




 2     the normal definition of  landfill, which means  as




 3     defined  in 40 CFR Part 241,  "Facilities for the disposal




 4     of solid waste involving  the placement of solid waste




 5     on or  into the land surface, and usually involving




 6     compaction and covering of the disposed solid waste,




 7     and which is not a land-spreading or  surface-impoundment




 8     facility."




 9                      Further, "'Solid waste1 means  any




10     garbage, refuse, sludge from a waste  treatment  plant,




11     water  supply treatment plant, or air  pollution  control




12     facility and other discarded material, including solid,




13     liquid, semi-solid or contained gaseous material resulting




14     from industrial, commercial, mining,  and agricultural




15     operations, and from community activities  ..."  et cetera.




16                      Stablex  Corporation  believes there  is




17     a clear distinction between the ordinary definition  of




18     "solid waste" and "artificial stone"  which is used as




19     a valuable land reclamation product.




20                      Stablex  wishes to draw EPA's attention




21     to the fact that Stablex  material is  not a discarded




22     waste  material.  it is a  valued product supplied to




23     return back land into productive use, whether it be  used




24     for park land, low-grade  agricultural purposes, or




25     building purposes.

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                                                              95



  ,                      The entire philosophy of the conversion



       of waste materials into an inert nontoxic essentially



       inorganic nonbiodegractable, nonflammable, noncombustible



       material that is unattractive to pests and vermin is to



       insure that wastes are truly converted and changed from



       a noxious material into one that is environmentally
  6


       acceptable.  It clearly delineates the difference between



       an ordinary landfill operation and the seal-a-safe



       service facility for land reclamation purposes.   The



       following  factors must be considered:



                        For landfill, wastes received are placed



       into cells  either with or without processing and the



 13     cells are subsequently covered over with earth to pre-



 14     vent the incursion of water which, in turn,  minimizes



 ,,     leaching potential



                        Inorganic waste materials placed in



 17     these cells remain in the state in which they are placed



       or may deteriorate over years creating a long-term



       potential environmental risk.  Compare this  with the



 2Q     Stablex product which is placed in a land reclamation



       area in need of reclamation,  and it is a material



 22     comparable  to ordinary construction materials; for



 23     example,  concrete,  stone,  et cetera.



 24                      EPA knows that problems of  public



25     acceptance  of facilities dealing with industrial by-products

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                                                             96




      considered to be waste materials are immense.  This is




 2     especially so because of poor operating practices which




 3     have occurred over the past years.




 4                      It is Stablex corporation's approach to




 5     deal with unwanted waste by-products in a professional




 ,     manner where each of these materials is converted into a
 o



 7     useful product, artificial stone, which typically finds




      most value for land reclamation.




                       To categorize and/or classify the




      Stablex product as a "solid waste" is incorrect.




                       Stablex corporation suggests that its




12     product, an artificial stone, be categorized as a land




      reclamation material and not covered under the landfill




M     rules.




15                      All materials transported in trucks




      must be manifested by EPA regulations or DOT regulations.




17     There is no reason that materials destined for conversion




      at a seal-a-safe facility to Stablex product cannot be




      manifested under DOT regulations in conformance with




2Q     EPA's standards.




                       By so doing, the seal-a-safe facility




22     which would handle these materials would be required to




23     track each of the materials entering the facility and




24     document their fate, just like any other facility which




25     creates a product from a nonuseful or lower value raw

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                                                              97
       material.
                        Every production facility in the united
       States is fully familiar with raw material control forms,
       quality control,  on-plant maintenance,  safety and product
       disposition.  In turn, the seal-a-safe  service facility
       operators are familiar with the methodology for con-
 6
       version of the materials to the final product at the
       facility and know the fate of the final product.  For
 8
 -     example, where it is utilized for land  reclamation pur-
       poses, clearly, this particular type of operation is
 ..     not the traditional landfill operation  nor is it a waste
 .      disposal facility.  In a waste facility, the materials
       that are received are disposed of in a  fashion that they
 ,„     do not add value to the placement area.  With the
 14
       seal-a-safe service approach placed materials add sub-
       stantial value to the placement area and to the surrounding
 16
 ._     community by returning otherwise unusable land to useful
 I8     purposes.
 .„                      Stablex corporation proposes the following
       to be considered by the EPA:

 21                      First, recognition that industrial by-
 22     products are considered to be wastes under the various
 23     operating measures may be raw materials to others.
 24                      Second, the land reclamation area at
25      which the final Stablex product is utilized is no longer

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                                                              98




  1     a landfill  because  the  area does  not accept a solid waste




  2     as defined  under  the  Solid Waste  Rules.   The material is




  3     not discarded,  nor  does it fit  any of the other  character-




  4     istics  of a material  that  has no  substantial intrinsic




  5     value.




  5                      EPA  has stated several  times that it




  7 j    wishes  to encourage innovative  and environmentally sensitive




  g I    technology  when dealing with industrial  waste products.




       If a facility,  such as  a seal-a-safe service facility,




       is labeled  as  a "treatment plant"  and "landfill  operation,"





 11 !    area zoning ordinances, which would otherwise allow a




 12     facility of this  type,  would have  to be  modified,  making




 13     it extremely difficult  for a land  reclamation business




 14     which  is environmentally acceptable and  a desirable opera-




 15     tion to become  operational by being classed as a waste




       disposal facility to  satisfy EPA  regulations.




 17 I                     Stablex Corporation recommends  that




 18 j    facilities  which  incorporate the  utilization of processes




 19     that actually  convert industrial  by-products to  useful




 20     land reclamation  materials be either regulated in a




 21 !    different fashion than  the proposed regulations  or




 22     excluded from  the regulations and included in their other




 23     regulations.




 24                      We very much appreciate the opportunity




25 |    we have had to present  our views  and trust they will be

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                                                               99




  1     considered.




  2                      Thank  you.




  3               CHAIRMAN TRUETT  DeGEARE:




  4                      Are  there any questions from the Panel?




  5                       (No  response.)




  6               CHAIRMAN TRUETT  DeGEARE:




  7  I                    Any  questions from the audience?




  g  ;                     (No  response.)




  9               CHAIRMAN TRUETT  DeGEARE:




 10                      Thank  you for an  interesting presentation.




 11  I   Your views will be considered.




 12                      Mr.  William  Hutton.





 13




 14




 IS




 16




 17




 18




 19




 20




 21




 22




 23




 24




25

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                                                              100




  1                   STATEMENT  OF WILLIAM C.  HUTTON




  2               MR.  WILLIAM C. HUTTON:




  3                      Gentlemen,  my name is William C.  Hutton,




  4     and I am appearing here  on behalf of the Texas Chemical




  5     Council.




                        The Council is an association of  77




       chemical companies with  over 62,000 employees  and  repre-




       senting approximately 90 per cent of the chemical  industry




       in Texas,  over half of  the nation's petrochemicals are




       produced by member companies operating in Texas.




                        The Council has  a long history of co-




       operation with State and Federal  Agencies in the further-




       ance of responsible environmental legislation and  regula-




       tion.  We appreciate this opportunity to make input into




 15     the standards — setting  process for solid waste control.




                        We have followed the development  of the




       rules and regulations under the Solid Waste Act since the




       law was enacted in 1976.  Naturally, our effort has




       focused mainly on Sections 3001 through 3010 dealing with




 2Q     hazardous waste materials.  However, today we wish to




 -,     also express our interest in landfill regulations by




 22     making a few comments on the proposed rules published in




 23     the Federal Register of  March 26, 1979.




 24                      The staff approach appears to be  aimed




25     at achieving the ends of the Act in the most cost-effective

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                                                             101




  1     manner on a site-specific basis.




  2                      We concur with the philosophy expressed




  3     in Section 241.202-2(a),  and I quote,  "unless underlying




  4     groundwater is determined to be unusable as a drinking




  5     water or other supply source and therefore is not in need




       of protection, the bottom of the landfill disposal




       facility should be substantially above the seasonally




       high groundwater table ...".  This statement recognizes




       an approach that we have  taken in many long discussions




 1Q     with the EPA staff concerning Sections 3001 through 3010.




                        Groundwater and aquifers are not




       necessarily the same thing in most instances.  For




       instance, in this area of the nation we are standing not




 ]4     many feet above sea level.  The water  table may be only




 15     a foot below the surface  of the ground.  Since the




 16     height above sea level is small,  there is little driving




       force or head, and, because the ground is mostly clay,




       the horizontal movement of groundwater is very slow.




       Because of the clays,  the vertical movement of water,




 20     according to the u. S. coast and Geodetic Survey people,




       is in geologic time.




 22                      The aquifer under the Houston-Galveston




 23     area is some 600 to 1,200 feet below us, protected by




 24     clays and shale.




25                      The recharge for this aquifer is in

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                                                             102




 1    Montgomery  County,  some  50  miles north of where  we  are.




 2                      It is not  our  intent to casually dismiss




 3    such groundwater  and say absolutely  no protection is




 4    warranted.




 5                      Site-specific  decisions should  be  made.




                        We think you have recognized  this  in  the




      proposed  regulations.




                        Landfills  should not be built where




 9    there  are known surface  faults  or active faults,  and you




 10    have recognized this in  your regulations.




 11                       Very rigid and strenuous requirements




 12     should be imposed for landfills needed in an aquifer




 13     recharge  area, and you have recognized this  in your




      regulations.  Less stringent requirements are  necessary




      in  areas  such as  the Gulf Coast area where the groundwater




      is  not usable, and we believe you have recognized this.




 17                       We concur  that attenuation of leachate




 18     in  groundwater is experienced.  In many cases, again on




 19     a site-specific basis, this attenuation alone  will




 20     suffice to  protect the brackish waters found in  the Gulf




 21     Coast  area  and other coastal areas.




 22                       We endorse the application  of engineering




 23     principles  to minimize the  contact of contaminated




 24     materials in high groundwater areas.




25                       The implication  in  Section  241.202-2(a),

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                                                             103



  1     and I  quote,  "That pumping may be  necessary to lower the



  2     water  table"  suggests  that alternative solutions will



  3     be considered on a case-by-case,  site-specific basis.



  4                      We concur that a  site-specific approach



  5     will offer  the most effective solution to meet these



       problems.



                        Furthermore, it is  stated that:  "A



       groundwater monitoring system should be installed for



       the purpose of detecting the impact  of all landfill



       disposal facilities, which have the  potential for dis-



       charge to an underground drinking  water source."



 12     This seems  to say that where there is little or no



       potential for the leachate to reach  an aquifer,



       a  groundwater monitoring system is not required,  we



       endorse this  practical approach and  we believe this



 16     alternative should be  spelled out  so the administrator



       of the program will have a clear definition of choices



 18     in site-specific decisions.



 19 '                     We appreciate the opportunity of making



 20     these  remarks,  and if  you have any questions we will



       try to answer them-


                                      4
 22              CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARY:



 23                      Are there any questions from the



 24     audience?



25                      (No response.)

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                                                              104




                 CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARJ?:




 2                      There being no questions, I thank  you




 3     for  your  comments.




                        That ends the list of individuals  who




 5     had  requested in advance to provide remarks at  this




 ,     hearing.




 -.                      Are there any persons in the audience




       who  would care to make remarks at this point?




 .                      I see a hand.




 .                      Please come forward and state  your name




       and  affiliation.
11




12




13




14




15




16




17




18




19




20




21




22




23




24




25

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                                                             105



                    STATEMENT OF RICHARD S. BARNETT



 2               MR. RICHARD S. BARNETT:



 3                      Mr. DeGeare and Mr. Hathaway,  I am



       Richard Barnett,  a professional geologist with J.  M.



 5     Huber corporation, representing the Environmental



       Committee of the  Houston Geological Society, a
 6 |


       professional organization of more than 4,000 members,



       the world's largest such organization.



 „                      We did apply to make a presentation



 ...     and our application was not received in time.



                        Our written comments concern the



       selection of new  sites for municipal type solid wastes,



       not hazardous wastes of other kinds.



                        Geologists invite and support alterna-
 14


       tives to the burial and casual dumping of solid waste,



       that is, waste avoidance,  waste reduction, waste
 16


       reclamation, conversion and utilization.  But these
 18
       are not directly geological matters.   They are matters
 „     of citizenship and economics.



2Q                      When all else fails,  solid waste


       disposal is the subject which  comes directly into our



„     domain.   The selection of new  sites in the Greater



23     Houston  Area is a matter of immediate  concern to



       everybody here now that the City of Houston is down



25     to access of one less site.

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                                                             106




 1                      Functionally speaking, a new site must




 2     contain waste and, second,  isolate waste from further




 3     reaction with the environment.




 4                      The primary technical considerations  in




 5     evaluating the feasibility  of a new site are directly




      or  indirectly geological.   A site with satisfactory




      geological properties  is compatible with environmental




      and public health concerns  and can be made  safe, hygienic




 9     and socially tolerable in contrast with an  open dump.




10  [                    The former pattern of site selection




      in  empty places, undeveloped but environmentally




12     sensitive area or low-priced minority residential areas,




13     is  not geologically satisfactory.




14                      I welcome  the proposed guidelines  in




15     general as far as it concerns municipal type wastes.   I




16     cannot comment on the  blue  environmental impact statement




17     which I have not received and examined.




lg  j                    in regard  to the recommended practices




      in  this publication. Paragraph 241.200-2, Page 18142,




20     Section A, Environmentally  sensitive Areas, the paragraph




2i     is  correct.  These areas should not be considered.  They




22     should be forbidden.   Proposals such as the Katy-Hockley




23     site, referred to previously, have no other technical




24     merit other than being out  of sight and out of mind.




25     Environmentally sensitive areas are public  resources

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                                                             107




  1    which cannot  be regenerated by sophisticated engineering.




  2                      paragraphs 241,  201 to 204, I generally




  3    concur technically for  municipal  wastes,  though I




  4    cannot comment on the more hazardous wastes.




  5                      paragraph 241-205(b)  on Page 1847,




      referring to  "Cover,"  it appears that as little as a




      hundred and five centimeters or three and a half feet will




      suffice.  That figure is adequate only for inert con-




  9    struction wastes,  not municipal garbage or other more




 10    hazardous and reactive  wastes in  this area in view of




      the  Beaumont  clay's high shrink and swell potential.




 12    The  whole subject of  "Cover" requires further research




 13    and  detail.




 14                      in conclusion, I welcome the efforts




 15    that you have made in these guidelines.  Regulations,




      however scientifically  correct and  enlightened, however,




 17    are  of no use without a private and public conscience




 18    in waste generation and disposal.  You cannot impose  one




      by law.




 2Q                      The  prevalence of  littering shows that




 21    you  have a long way to  go.




 22                      Thank  you,  Mr. Chairman.




 23               MR. WAYNE TUSA:




 24                      Could  you talk just a moment again about




25    that "Cover"  question you brought up and perhaps make

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                                                             108





 1     some suggestions as to what you think is happening?




 2               MR. RICHARD S. BARNETT:




 3                      I cannot make further comment without




 4     additional research on that particular subject, but




 5     the Beaumont clay, which is otherwise ideal in geo-




      logical terms as a medium for burying wastes, is




      notoriously susceptible to shrinking in prolonged




      dry weather.  Everybody who has a  lawn to mow around




      here will know that.  Your yards crack to depths of




      three and four feet in June, July  and August, and that




      renders sites susceptible to invasion by rodents or




      it allows gases and leachates to escape.  It is not




13     satisfactory.




,4               MR. WAYNE TUSA:




                       Are you referring to the issue of  final




      cover?




17               MR. RICHARD S. BARNETT:




                       Final cover.




19               CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:




20                      Yes, sir.





21               MR. CARL BRASOW:




22  |                    Again, my name is carl Brasow.   I  am




23     a registered professional engineer, but my  area of




24     expertise is in soil mechanics as  opposed to geology,




25     which is a little bit more general.

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                                                             109




  1                      But your reference to the cover design,




  2     I think is well-established that one of the more




  3     critical areas of failure, if you want to define a




  4     failure of a landfill, is the bathtub effect.  If you




  5     can properly design cover, then you can eliminate the




  (,     bathtub effect, which, in effect, is filling up the




  7     landfill, overflowing the sides and contaminating the




  8     surface water.




  9                      So, without getting into the specifics




 10     of that, cover is the most important part of the design.




 11     There are ways to properly design cover without just




 12     using clay by itself.  You can enhance the material; you




 ]3     can use other specific types of very high plastic




 14     materials, such as bentonite, use composite designs,




 15     or a combination of both natural soil and artificial




 16     liners.




 17                      The whole aspect of cover design is




 18     really in its infancy and if there is an area of




 19     criticality or concern,  it is in the area of cover




 20     design.  That is the area in which additional research




 2i     has to be done.




 22               MR. WAYNE TUSA:




 23                      Are you in general agreement that the




 24     cover  type should be as  impermeable as possible in




25     general?

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                                                             110




                MR. CARL BRASOW:




 2                      Excuse me.  Could you repeat that?




 3               MR. WAYNE TUSA:




 4                      Are you in general  agreement that the




 5     cover type should be as impermeable  as possible?




 6               MR. CARL BRASOW:




 7                      Absolutely.  Absolutely.  Because if  you




      use a permeable cover material, you  are  just going to




      fill up the bathtub.  It is absolutely ridiculous to use




      a permeable material such as a sand,  for  instance, or  any




      other material of that nature.




                       Really, you do get  into  problems when you




13     start using low plastic materials to minimize shrink-swell




      potential because then you start to  increase the




15     permeability.  There are other ways  of designing the




      caps to enhance and maintain a relatively low permeability




      and still maintain a low shrink-swell potential.




]8               CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:




,„                      Any further questions from the audience?




2Q                       (No response.)




21               CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:




22                      Thank you for your  remarks.




                       is there anyone else who would  like  to




      present testimony?




25                      Yes.

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                                                             Ill




 1                     STATEMENT OF LEROY CHEVALIER




 2                MR.  LEROY CHEVALIER:




 3                       Mr.  chairman and Audience,  I am




 4      Attorney Leroy Chevalier.   I am representing the




 5      Northeast Organization for  progress.




                        My organization is primarily concerned




       this  morning with the location of landfills  in or near




       municipalities,  the general consensus being  that most




 9      of  these landfills up to this point here in Houston




10      that  I  am familiar with have been located in or near




       minority communities.




12                       I think the EPA should take a look




13      as  to what the general consensus is throughout the




14      total community and where  landfills should be located,




15      the distance from public schools.  I  stand to be




       corrected,  but I think the  State of Texas holds that




17      no  landfill can be located  any closer than 500 feet




18  |    from  a  school.  Well, I don't know what type of an




19      education a student could get looking at a landfill.




20  |                     I live in  Northeast  Houston and we




21  I    have  had within the last five years three or four




22  I    different landfills within  this community,  and this




23  !    is  within,  let's say, about 150,000 people living in




24  !    this  area.   Now,  these have been small,  maybe like,




25      let's say,  four  or five acres,  but this is degrading,

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                                                             112




 1     wretched and abject  situations  that we  are  being forced




 2     to  live under — unless  EPA or  some other Federal




 3     regulation comes in  and  sets  some  type  of criteria for




 4     the  location of these  various landfills.  And I  think




 5     this burden does go  toward the  general  welfare of the




 6     community.




 7                      Now,  this impact  is  national.  it is




 8     not    only locally  here in Houston,  but  it is something




 9     that is being dealt  with where,  I  think,  the least




10  ;   resistance is.  you  put  up something  where  you don't have




11     very much fuss.  0.  K.    Typically, this  has been a




12     minority community.




13                      So, I am asking EPA  to establish or




14     take some type of  evaluation  as  to where  general land-




15     fills  are generally  located and set a criteria that will




16     eliminate or alleviate this type of stigma  toward




17     minority communities.




18                      Thank you.




19               CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:




20                      Thank you for  raising  that point.




21                      I personally would find  it very diffi-




22     cult to generate such  criteria,  and if  you  could, in




23     the  future before  the  May 25th  deadline,  provide us




24     with suggestions,  I  would appreciate  it,  so we could




25     consider them.

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                                                             113



 1                MR.  LEROY CHEVALIER:



 2                       Yes.   I think  that something feasible



 3      could  come out of this  thing.



 4                       I think what I am dealing with here is



 5      especially the urban areas  where cities are establishing



 ,      what  is  called refuse  landfills and I am sure that it
 6


       can be determined from where each additional fill was



       up to  a  prior  time what the mode or apparatus that the



       City has been  using in order to establish this for



       preservation of the establishment of landfills.



,,                CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:



                        Are there  any  questions from the



,,      audience?



14                A VOICE:



15                       What  organization are you representing?



16                MR.  LEROY CHEVALIER:



                        Northeast  organization for progress in



18      Northeast Houston.



)9                CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:



_0                       Thank you, sir.



2,                MR.  LEROY CHEVALIER:



                        Thank  you.



23                CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:



24                       Would anyone else care to make a



25      statement?


                        Yes, ma'am.

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                                                            114





 I                   STATEMENT OF FRANCES JO PELLEY




 2               MS. FRANCES JO PELLEY:




 3                      I am Frances Jo Pelley with the Texoma




 4     Regional located in Denison, Texas.




 5                      I want to thank the EPA for giving me




      this opportunity to come to a public hearing in Texas




      in addition to the ones that are usually scheduled in




      Washington, D. C.




 9  j                    I really just have a few quick questions.




10  j   The first one refers to the definition of an "aqu-ifer",




      and that is Paragraph 241.101.  It refers to a formation




12     that is capable of yielding usable quantities of ground-




13     waters to wells or springs, and I think that is open to




14     too much interpretation, as far as the word "usable."




    , It could be clarified by maybe "usable to a certain




      number of people."  I do not doubt that in one particular




17     city in my area that two aquifers serve all the water




]g  1   supplies for that municipality, which is more than




19     30,000 people, and, which, incidentally, is on the out-




20     crop of which they decided to locate their landfill  is




2i     a usable aquifer, but at the same time there are




22  j   formations that are considered minor aquifers that




23  '   cover a great expanse of the county up there that do yield




24      small quantities  of water to,  say,  several rural




25      families.   That term "usable quantities"  does not say

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                                                             115




  1     anything about the quality of the water.   Whereas,  the




  2     aquifer may yield quantities  of water,  they may be  un-




  3     usable or unsuitable for  public supply.




  4                      The same term type definition is re-




  5     ferred to in Paragraph 241.202-2 and refers to leachate




  6     control, and it starts out the paragraph:




  7                      "Unless  the  underlying groundwater is




                 determined to be unusable as  a  drinking




  9               water supply or other supply  source




 10                      I am concerned with who  is going to




 11     determine that source unusable, and what we may consider




 12     unusable now may not be unusable ten or twenty years




 13     from now when the quantity of water we  need will warrant




 14     the  expense of economics  necessary to treat that quality




       of water.




                        Lastly,  I would refer  to  the general




 17     use  of the term "shallow" and "deep" landfill.  in




 18     Paragraph 241-203-2 it talks  about gas  control and  makes




 19     reference to the rule of  thumb in estimating migration of




 20     gas  from a shallow landfill and a deep  landfill. If




 2i     you  could quantify that as less than 20 feet or put




 22     some type of number associated with it  --  what is "deep"




 23     to me may not be "deep" to someone else.




 24                      Thank you.




25

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                                                             116




  1              MR. WAYNE  TUSA:




  2                      Could you provide  us  with comments on




  3    what  you  consider to be "usable"?




  4              MS. FRANCES  JO PELLEY:




  5                      0.  K.




  6              CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:




  j                      Are there any questions from the




  g    audience?




  9                      (No response.)




 10              CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:




 1]                      Thank you for your comments.




                        Yes,  ma'am.




 13              A VOICE:




 ]4                      Is  it permissible  to  ask questions?




 ,5 !             CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:




                        We  just want to give  everyone an




      opportunity to  make  statements and  provide testimony




      and then  we will get to that.




                        Are there any more statements to be




 -0    made?




                        (No response.)




 22              CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:




 23                      O.  K.   We will provide an opportunity




 24    for you to  ask  questions of us, then we will take a lunch




25    break and we will be back here at  1:00 o'clock to see

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                                                             117




  1     if there are others who could not make the morning session,




  2     but who were planning on being with us in the afternoon.




  3     We will see if anyone comes and see if myone wishes to




  4     present testimony at that time.




  5                      Before you all leave, let me mention




  6     again that there is a deadline for receipt of written




  7     comments, and that is May 25th, and we are asking that




  a     you mail to the address indicated in the Federal Register.




  9                      I would like to now open the floor for




 10     any questions that you may have that you would like to




 ]]     ask.




 12                      Yes, ma'am.




 ,3               DORRIS McWILLIAMS:




 14                      I am a Police Juror, which is county




 15     commissioner equivalent, from caddoparish, Louisiana,




 16     and that is the parish in which the city of Shreveport




 17     is located.




 18                      I just have one brief statement, and




 19     that is that we all hope that when the permitting forms




 2Q     and processes are developed that they will be simple,




 21     that we will have,  you might say, one form with which




 22     we can apply for all the necessary clearances, such as




 23     the OSHA and other  safety things as well as EPA landfill




 24     siting and operation process, so that the paperwork




25      will be the smallest possible drain on our staff and

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                                                             118




       capabilities.




 2                     The  question  I wanted  to  ask  is  this,




 3     referring  to Page  18147 -- and I have not  seen the  EIS




 4     as yet and just had access to  this this past week —




       but  it is  in the center column. Item 6  at  the  top of




       the  page,  "Scavenging should be prohibited at  all times




       to avoid injury  ...",  et cetera, "... although controlled




       salvaging  operations  may be permissible."




                       Would one of  you all elaborate on  just




       how  this might be  feasible or  what you  mean by that?




                 MR. BERNARD STOLL:




                       Well, the reason we put in two definitions




       was  really the word "control"  included  in  one.




       "Scavenging" is normally or has been considered un-




       controlled removal of wastes from a location;  whereas,




,,      "salvaging" is intended to imply that it is controlled




       somehow through the operator of that facility.




]8                      We invite comments on  that because in




       the  past it is well known that some salvaging  operations




2Q      deteriorate into scavenging operations, but we were




2]  j    trying to  draw a semantic difference between the  two.




22                DORRIS MCWILLIAMS:




-,                      Any  guidelines as to how  this could be




24      accomplished safely to reduce  the quantity of  material




25      that will  have to  be  landfill  would certainly  be

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                                                             119



       appreciated.



                        Thank you very much.



  3               MR. BILL HATHAWAY:



  4                      One comment.  On your opening statement,



  c     relative to permits, EPA does not have provisions



       within the Resource Conservation and Recovery Act for
  o


  ,     permitting sanitary landfills other than hazardous



       waste disposal facilities.  So, there will be no per-



       mitting activities by the Federal Government on solid



       waste facilities other than that -- only State.



 1,               CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:



 ..                      Are there any other general questions?



                        Yes, sir



 ,,               JACK DREIfH:
 14


                        I am Jack Dreith with Shell Oil Company.



                        Would you elaborate a little bit on
 16


       the difference between "guidelines" and "criteria" and



       what you expect to see when the criteria is published



       and how you expect the States to utilize these guide-



 20     lines?



 2] [              CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:



                        I cannot comment on what we expect to



 23     see when the criteria are published in terms of what



 24     the criteria will say.  I might add that the criteria



25     are expected to be published in the Federal Register in

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                                                            120
 1





 2





 3





 4





 5





 6




 7





 8




 9





10





11





12





13





14





15




16




17




18





19





20





21




22





23





24





25
late July of this year.




                 The criteria will be used by the States




to determine which facilities are sanitary landfills




or open dumps.





                 The guidelines are suggested technologies




that can be used at the state level, for example, as we




are doing applications for permits under the State




authorities that could be used by operators in designing




facilities or operating facilities.  They could be




used by designers in their design efforts.




                 The guidelines are for general use as




opposed to a speed fie regulatory application, if that




helps to address the question you were asking.




          MR. BERNARD STOLL:




                 To elaborate a little further on your




question as to how the State might utilize the guidelines,




we do expect and actually do encourage that since the




criteria for facilities or performance of standards we




urge state Agencies to adopt operating standards for




reviewing applications prior to award of the permit.




In that regard, these guidelines we would hope would be




considered by the states in modifying or updating their




own regulations and rules to have the best that we have




to offer incorporated into their standards.  We do not




hope, on the other hand, that the States just taXe the

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                                                             121




       recommended guidelines that we are offering and make them




  2     a state regulation in toto.




  3               JACK DREITH:



  4                      one other question.  On the elimination




  5     of land spreading and impoundments on the guideline




  ,     coverage, was there a reason behind this?




  7               MR. BERNARD STOLL:



  „                      The criteria for solid waste disposal
  o



  9     facilities under 4004 are intended to address all land




       disposal of solid waste.  We defined that as being three




       methods, three distinct — although not necessarily over-




 12     lapping -- but there are three types of land disposal,




       namely, landfilling, land spreading, and surface impound-




 14     ment, some as site-specific and some as waste-specific,




 .,     as to which name is more appropriate for a given facility.




                        The guidelines that we developed here




       were to focus on the ones that the States have been most




       interested in in the past and the ones we know most about,




       namely, landfilling.




 2Q                      We have intentions of providing in the




       future a guideline document which will address land



       spreading of solid waste and a separate guideline document




 23     to address surface impoundment of solid waste.  We did




 24     not intend to exclude those other two practices, it is




25     just that we have not developed those other documents as

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                                                            122




 1     yet.




 2               CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeQEARE:




 3                      Yes, ma'am.




 4               BARBARA BAINE:




 5                      I have a question for the Panel.  My




      name is Barbara Baine.  I represent myself.




                       I address this question to the panel:




                       Do you gentlemen know of any landfills




      other than those that are exclusively construction




      material operating in your definitions of an environmentally




      sensitive area that are doing no damage?  Is it possible




12     to name me one?




)3               A VOICE:




14                      What was the last part of your question?




15               BARBARA BAINE:




                       Doing no damage.  Go further -- minimal




      damage.




]8               CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:




19  !                    I don't know of any landfill operating




2Q     in an environmentally sensitive area.  Just from my




      personal knowledge of such things, that does not mean




22     they do not exist, and if they do exist, they are




23     damaging or not damaging.




24               BARBARA BAINE:




25                      I would suggest you visit New Jersey  if

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                                                             123




  1     you have never seen one operating in your definition.




  1     They are there in swamps and wetlands and the habitat of




  3     the endangered species.




  4               MR. BERNARD STOLL:




  5                      One reason that we have a little diffi-




  6     culty answering the question, other than limited knowledge




  7  '.   of facilities throughout the country, is:  One, the




  8     criteria classification has not been finalized as yet.




  9  I   As we say,  they should be finalized in July,  sometime in




 10     July.  So,  we are talking against a moving target.  And,




 11     secondly, an action following promulgation is the inventory




 12     of solid waste disposal facilities by the states to make




 13     the determination as to its environmental acceptability




 14     or not for specific facilities.




 15                      So, within about a year, about next year,




 16     it should be possible to provide a more satisfactory answer




 17     to your question.




 18               CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:




 19                      Yes, sir.




 20               JIM ANDERSON:




 21                      My name is Jim Anderson with Olan.




 22                      Did I understand you to say that the




 23     regulations that would be proposed this July would be




 24     performance criteria rather than design standards?  And,




25     if so,  how would they address the performance of the

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                                                             124



       formation  at  the bottom of  the  landfill?



                 CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:



                       The  regulation I  mentioned  is  not  to be



  .     proposed in July.  It is to be  published  in  final form.



       It was  proposed last  February,  February of 1978.




 ,               JIM ANDERSON:
 6


                       And  these  will be  performance  criteria



       with  no design criteria?
 8



 9               MR. BERNARD STOLL:



                       I am not sure  I can draw the difference



       between -- I  can talk to the difference between per-



12     formance and  operating, but either  of those  can be



       design  criteria.



                       The  criteria included environmental



       effects standards such as nondegradation  of  water or non-



,,     pollution  of  the air  as opposed to requirements for
16


       placing a  liner at the base of the  landfill.



.„                     So,  the criteria  or performance or



.„     environmental effects criteria, yes.



20               CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:



                       Thank you.



22                     Any  further questions?



23                      (No  response.)



24               CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:



25                      There being none,  we will  close this

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                                                              125




       session of the hearing and we will reopen the record at




 2     1:00 o'clock for receipt of further  testimony.




 ,                      (Whereupon, at  12:00  o'clock Noon,




 .               a recess was taken, to reconvene at




                 1:00 o'clock P. M., the same day.)
 6




 7




 8




 9




10




11




12




13




14




15




16




17




18




19




20




21




22




23




24




25

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                                                            126




 1                         AFTERNOON SESSION




 2                                                     (1:10 P.M.)




 3               CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:




 4                      Good Afternoon.




 5                      This is the continuation of a hearing




      which we started this morning at 9:00 o'clock.  It is




      being held by the U. S. Environmental Protection Agency




      on the subject of proposed guidelines for the landfill




      disposal of solid waste.




                       we received testimony this morning




      culminating with a Question and Answer period and we




12  I   went through the entire list of persons who had requested




      opportunity to provide testimony.




                       Now the question is:  is there anyone




      else present here this afternoon who would like an




,,     opportunity to provide testimony on this proposed




      regulation?




                        (No response.)




                CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:




2Q                      I see no one requesting an opportunity




      to provide testimony.




22                      Are there any questions regarding this




23     regulation that you would like to ask the Panel?




                       Yes, ma1am.





25

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                                                             127





  1               KATHLEEN ORR:




  2                      I am Kathleen Orr.




  3                      I have  not received an EIS and I wonder




  4     if the comment period will still be  only the 25th, if




  5     I don't receive it before that time?




  6               MR.  BERNARD STOLL:




                        When did you request it,  ja'am?




                 KATHLEEN ORR:




                        Well, I didn't have one before.  I




       represent the  Houston Audubon Society.




                 MR.  BERNARD STOLL:




12                      I see.




,,                      We announced in the Federal Register the




.       availability of the environmental impact statement within




       one week of publication  of the regulations as proposed.




                        You may, of course, request in writing




       prior  to the May 25th close of public comment,  may




18     request an extension of  the public comment period.  We




19     have received  only one public comment to that effect to




20     date,  but,  of  course,  we cannot make a decision until




       we approach the May 25th deadline.




22                      Again,  you have the opportunity to




23     request an extended comment period,  but we have no in-




24     tention as yet to do that.





25

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                                                             128




 }               CHAIRMAN  TRUETT  DeGEARE :




 2                      were  you  able  to receive a copy here




 3     today?




 4               KATHLEEN  ORR:




 5                      NO.




 6               MR.  BERNARD  STOLL:




 7                 0    We will make one available to you.




                CHAIRMAN  TRUETT  DeGEARE:




 9  I                    Are there any  further questions?




10                       (No response.)




II  i             MR.  BERNARD  STOLL:




12                      Any comments or observations?




13                       (No response)




I4               CHAIRMAN  TRUETT  DeGEARE:




15                      There was one  gentleman who had re-




      quested  an  opportunity to  talk  with us.  Out of courtesy




17     to him,  we  will  extend the meeting a bit further.




                       He asked  for an opportunity to go to his




      car  to obtain  some  materials  that he had brought with him.




2Q                      We will  stand  in recess until 1:30.




                        (Recess.)




22               CHAIRMAN  TRUETT  DeGEARE:




23                      It being  1:30, I will ask the hearing




24     come back to order. We will  proceed as we did this




25     morning  with a time limitation  of approximately ten

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                                                               129




       minutes  on presentations with an opportunity  for




  2    questions  from the panel and the audience.




  3                      Let me ask again if there  is anyone  who




  4    would  like an opportunity to present a statement  at




  5    this time?




  6                      Yes, sir.
  7




  8




  9




 10




 11




 12




 13




 14




 15




 16




 17




 18




 19




 20




 21




 22




 23




 24




25

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                                                             130




 1                   STATEMENT OF DR. JAMES  PARKER




 2               DR. JAMES PARKER:




 3                      I am or. James  Parker.   I am  from




 4     LaMarque, Texas.




 5                      The area that I would present evidence




 6     on today is in the Coastal Area of Texas  extending  from




 7     the Louisiana State Line to the Rio Grande.




 8                      I have inspected on  an aerial basis  and




 9     on a ground level most of the major points in  the long




10  j   Coastline of Texas.




11  i                    Generally speaking,  the  coast of Texas




12     is a flat, featureless plain.  The elevation,  of course,




13     will vary, but very little.  It  is generally very flat and




]4     the soil patterns are of particular importance and  I




15     wish to stress these today.




16  i                    Starting at the Louisiana State Line




17  I   and into the Houston area, we have a  continuing repeti-




18     tion of soil types.  Now, in the immediate marsh area




19     or near marsh areas, of course, we have the build-up




20     of a marsh cover type material, which is  a very highly




2]     porous material.  How far inland this will extend




22     depends on the particular type you are  looking at.




23                      Now, in these areas  we have a calciferous




24     material beneath the marsh area, or we have sand.   Now,




25     the soil profiles must be considered  very carefully.

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                                                             131




 1     They  are repetitive.   There will be every  few hundred




 2     yards on the  Gulf  Coast  of Texas outcroppings of  sand.




 3                     Now,  between  these outcroppings  there




 4     may be  a denser  type of  material.  It will generally




 5     be a  clay  type of  soil,  heavily interspersed with




       calciferous and  calcarious materials, all  of which  are




       very  porous and  have a high degree of permeability.




                       Beneath, and  encountered  at a  level of




       perhaps 12 to 18 feet  and certainly into the area of 15




       to 25 feet, we approach  a soil type of  clay which is




 11      highly  variable  and the  permeability of this clay will




 12     likewise be highly variable.




 13                      The one important characteristic,  however,




 14      of these deeper  clay stratas,  as will be shown  in soil




       profiles,  is  that  they are all interspersed with  pockets




       of sand.




                       The actual distance of the pockets of




 12     sand will  vary.




                       Quite commonly they will  be 15 to  20




 20      feet apart.   This  is borne out by well  drillers'  logs




 2i      and by  soil profiles pursuant  to the various applicants




 22      who seek to put  pits in  landfill sites.




 23                      What  we look  at, then, on the  coast of




 24      Texas,  is  a highly permeable layer of material  extending




25      down perhaps  to  30 feet.

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                                                            132



                       You will also, before that level of



 2     30 feet, encounter one of your first useful water



 3     strata.



                       In the Houston area — and this is



 5     pretty well, pretty general from the Rio Grande to



      Louisiana -- your first useful water strata will be
 6


      around 23 feet.  Now, this strata will not produce heavy



      water, but it is used in agricultural purposes, par-



      ticularly in ranching.  That strata, however, will



      percolate down into the deeper cisterns.  In our area



      we have the Alto Loma Sands and the Evangeline cistern.



                       The water in  these deep cisterns may



      be as a result of direct percolation or it may be



.,     primarily from a recharge zone.  For example, I live



      in the Texas City area.  We have a recharge, major



,,     recharge just south of Houston.  However, a great deal
lo


      of the water will be from direct percolation.



                       How does this fit into the question
lo


      that we are addressing ourselves to, and that is



      landfill sites?



                       In considering a landfill, and I must



      admit that I did not know the  parameters of your meeting



      well today, we have a situation in which ditches will



      be dug or trenches into the ground with the anticipation
24


      of later covering them.  We have this problem in our

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                                                             133




  1     area  of Texas  City.




  2                      The  land in  this  area,  Texas  City,




  3     Beaumont,  Port Arthur,  Freeport,  and perhaps  at other




  4     points  down South, has  undergone  subsidence.   It will




  5     vary  from  a few inches  to as  much  as ten feet.   The




       subsidence,  whether the deep  cisterns will  continue  to




       be  pumped  or not, will  continue  for  at least  a decade.




                        What we look at  today on a landfill site,




  9     say at  an  elevation of  four feet,  we would  in 1989 look




 10     at  a  new marsh.   Now, when we place  a substance, whether




 11     it  is considered Class  1 toxic and hazardous  or not,




 12     into  a  system  of that sort, you must consider  that you




 13     have  beneath it a permeable material.  You  have above




       it  the  stratification of the  soils.   You will  have your




 15     first major stratification at the  topsoil down to the




       sand  and then  between that layer  and your clay you have




 17     another major  stratification. You intercept  these strata.




 18     You place  the  material  into them,  and this  material  will




 19     travel  down the Coast of Texas.  And in this  area we




 20     have  approximately 1300 tidal changes a year.   These




 21     tidal changes  may be  added beyond  this if we  consider




 22     the effect of  wind, which is  one  of  the major  factors




 23     in  our  tidal workings in this area.




 24                      Each time a  tide  moves in  the ground




25     water level is going  to rise  accordingly.  I  can give

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                                                            134



      you the oceanographic — engineering data on that.



 2                     As it rises with each of these tidal



 ,    movements, you are going to have the contents of this



 .    landfill pushed to the surface, and the surface cover



      being a very high permeable material.



                       Whatever may be in the landfill site
 6


 ,    is going to be exposed directly to the local environment.



 „                     Number two, by route of permeability



      of the soils and the stratification, there will be



..    direct connection with the marine bodies of water or



      other bodies, such as fresh water bayous that may run




12


.                       The basis that we see and I have seen



. .     of people applying for a landfill site — and this is
14


      through the Texas Government — will establish figures



      based upon Type R fat clays which have a permeability —
16


      certainly you could select some in any given site in



      Texas that have a permeability of ten to the minus seven
18


      or better.  That must be compared with the permeability



      of a calciferous material, calcarious material, or a sand.



      I would refer you to the work of Dorothy La Place  (phonetic).



      Dr. Zoggie  (phonetic). Dr. casa Grande  (phonetic), and



-,    all of these authors who are familiar with the dynamics



      of soil will tell you and show you conclusively that the



_,     permeability differences between a type clay and, for

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                                                             135

  1     example, a sand will vary by over one billion times.

  2                      Now, at these interfaces between a

  3     soluble, highly permeable and a fairly nonpermeable

  4     material, you have your interfaces develop, the piping,

  5     the leakage, the seepage.

                        The other major problem that we encounter

       in the Texas City area -- and I think it is probably

       general, we have no control essentially over what goes

  9     into a landfill site that might be tagged a Class 2 in
   II
 10  !   our Texas Code, Class 3, as nontoxic.  we are approaching

 11     a system today in Texas where there is a closing-in on

 ,2     the polluter, the industrial polluter.  Representative

 13     Eckhart's Committee is now, as of this week, required

 14     50 major companies in the United States, chemical

 U     companies, to submit a list going back for 30 years that

 1£     will require them to do what I have been yelling for

 17     for over two years, and that ia to define in great

 18     particularity, their waste streams and not call it a

 19     commingled waste or tank bottoms, et cetera.

 20                      Now, this will lead to a lot of moon-

 2i     lighting, such as we have in our area, by small operators

 22     handling class 1 materials.

 23                      I would anticipate that a great deal

 24     of the cheating in the days ahead on the Texas coast

25     will indeed be in the form of taking drums, that we

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                                                            136




 1     have seen at Love canal and many other points, the Texas




 2     City Y, the old petro processors, these highly toxic,




 3     dangerous materials being shipped to Texas from




 4     Louisiana to our coast and as far away as Dallas and




 5     Fort Worth, it will be hauled to, for example, the




      Texas City landfill site that is proposed.  The only




      safeguard will be a city employee of minimal training




      who only requires one thing — Do you live in Texas




 9     City or do you own property in Texas City?  You have




10     totally no safeguard as to what will in fact go into




      these systems.  I have seen no recommendations for




      testing subsequently as to what is there.




12                      If you put mother's milk in this things




      and it did seep into the marine environment, you will




„     have a demand, a biological oxygen demand.  You will




      compete with the marine organisms.  Regardless of what




      you put in there, it will seep into the marine waters.




18     It will have an adverse effect on the marine environment.




19                      Now, gentlemen, in pursuance to our




2Q  |   stipulation, the color reversal films will be submitted




      separately and I will explain them on a cassette tape,




22     and I am also sending all of this material to Judge




23     Casell's Court in Washington, D. C.   I rather think that




24     the final determination of what we do will rest with




25     Judge casell, and I would encourage all of you to look

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                                                             137




 1     at the  suits  that have been  filed,  that  are on record,




 2     pro and con,  amicus  curiae and whatnot.




 3                      I will  say  that  the  final determination




 4     of what we are going to  do on the entire spectrum  here




 5     will be in that  fine gentleman's  court.




                       I thank you.




                CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:




                       Thank you,  s ir.




 9                      Are there any  questions from the  Panel?





10               MR. BERNARD STOLL:




11                      Yes.




                       Dr. Parker, I would  like to request that




      you provide comment, if  you  would,  on those sections of




      the guidelines,  particularly dealing  with cover  and liner




      materials, since soil mechanics was one  of the things




      that you were emphasizing,   we would  much appreciate




      receiving written comment on that for incorporation




18     following the close  of the public comment period.




19               DR. JAMES  PARKER:




20                      All right.  I will do that, and I will




      make you a present of a  very fine recent book by Dr. Harry




22     Segrin  of Sacramento, California, specifically dealing




23     with the futility of liners, whether  they are plastic,




24     clay or whatnot.





25

-------
                                                            138




                CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeQEARE:




 2 j                    Are there any questions from the




 3    audience?




 4              DR. JAMES PARKER:




                       I would be happy to go into any of these




      factors.  I might tell you people that I have flown now




      22 missions over the Coast of Texas and will incorporate




      this in a book later on, hopefully this year.  i am




      doing it — the primary film I am using is infrared




      color reversal, which I had hoped to show here today.




      I am also paralleling these with the conventional color,




      at times ordinary Kodachrome or Ectochrome.




                       I would think that by mid-July or later,




      I will have documented the many thousands of pits on the




      Gulf Coast of Texas.




16 I                    One thing I failed to tell you,




      gentlemen, as we go further south we approach on soil




.„    types predominantly sand in contrast to where we are




      here or to the east.




                CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeQEARE:
-.
                       We do have one question.
22                      Yes , s ir .




23               MR. CARL BRASOW:




                       My name  is carl Brasow.  I am a




25     registered professional engineer.  My area of expertise

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                                                             139




 1     is  soil mechanics.




 2                      I  might  mention  that Professor  George




 3     Sauers  (phonetic),  who  was  professor  at Georgia  Tech




 4     in  Soil Mechanics,  happens  to  be  the  senior  consultant




 5     for the firm that I work  for.




 6                      I  would  like  to  make some statements




 7     in  the form  of  questions  to you.  Dr.  Parker,  that although




 8     I would agree in general  terms with your soil stratigraphy,




 9     would you not agree that  the fact you could  classify the




 10     lower coastal soils,  say  from  Houston south,  and that




 11      is  being  very erratic,  basically  a clay body interspersed




 12     and interconnected  and  sometimes  discontinuous sand bodies,




 13      and that  in  fact you cannot classify  it as a laminated




 14      continuous system consisting of clays,  sands; clays, sands?




 15               DR. JAMES PARKER:




 16                       I  think  I  would  have to agree with you.




 17                    -  As we  approach the area of,  say, Aransas




 18     pass and  on  down south  of corpus  Christi,  we have tracts




 19     of  clay,  but then we get  into  what is evidently  sand from




 20      the surface  down for maybe  20  feet.




 21                       Now, the films that  I have  of the Aransas




 22  ]    area and  Rockport area  sort of bear this out on  the




 23      permeability that is being  encountered.




 24                       we have  somewhat better restraint of




25      things as we get into the heavy clays such as we find in

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                                                             140




 \     our area.




 2               MR. BERNARD STOLL:




 3                      Excuse me, gentlemen.  I think you are




 4     getting a little bit off the topic.  I think you are




 5     talking about a local situation.   If you could direct




 ,     your comments such that we could utilize those in




 7     finalizing the guidelines, I would appreciate it.




 3               MR. CARL BRASOW:




 9                      Well, my comment was directed to his




JQ     comment that anything put into a landfill would in fact




j]     leak out through the permeable layer, and in fact the




12     criteria that you mention in the guidelines here and are




13     basically promulgated in RCRA, especially the 3000 Sections,




,4     call for liner systems, that these liner systems will,




15     basically, be impermeable.  So, in fact, you do not




16     have direct connection to some more permeable zones; that




17     in fact good engineering practice  calls for slight over-




jo     excavation or replacement of those zones.




.„                      Furthermore, since we do mention the




2Q     mechanics, I think it would be worthwhile to point out




2j     that if you assume the worst condition of one of a very




22     high water level around, such as you would  find in the




23     coastal plain, that, as a matter of mechanics, that you




24     have inward gradient.  Water flows into the waste pits




25     and would do so for  some time.  Simple calculations.

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                                                             141
  ,     based on Dorsey's  Law, Laplace, or any of the other
       land or fluid equations that you mention, show that
  -     time periods of up to perhaps half a century would be
  ,     required to in fact just bring the water conditions in
       a landfill site back to equilibrium.  That is not even
       considering the reversal of gradient that would cause
  6
       any leachate formed in the land pit to flow out.  I think
       it is a very important point and one that is not con-
  8
       sidered in any of the guidelines.
                 So, those comments should be considered, that
       the direction and the magnitude of the gradients, formed
       especially in the flatland areas, are much more important
       than those areas of high relief where the gradient and
    I   permeabilities would in fact allow greater and faster
 14
       travel times.
 15  |
                        Thank you.
 16  I
    j             DR. JAMES PARKER:
    I                    I would comment that the gradient on the
 18
       Gulf Coast of Texas in the immediate adjacent areas to
       the bays,  estuaries, and with the only exception being
       in areas like the Houston-Galveston area, a lot of
       subsidence,  the gradient is always to the continental
       Shelf on these patterns.  Now, i would admit there has
       been some reversal due to heavy subsidence which may pull
„,      it back into another direction.

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                                                             142




 1                      Secondly, we are all hopeful of  liners.




 2     The best authorities and what I have seen,  I have never




 3     seen one work, and I would put this in  the  category of the




 4     crop that was never grown.   If you are  going to consider




 5     them, you should concomitantly  (phonetic) consider test




 6     wells beside — they must be an essential part of it.




 7               CHAIRMAN TRUEST DeGEARE:




                       Are there any further  questions?




 9                       (No response.)





10               CHAIRMAN TRUETT D6GEARE:




                       Thank  you,  sir.




12                      Is there anyone who would  care at this




13     time to present a statement?




14                       (No response.)




15  j             CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:




                       There  being no further requests  for




17     testimony,  let me ask if there are any  questions?




18  i                     (No response.)




19               CHAIRMAN TRUETT DeGEARE:




20                      I see  no questions.




                       We will close the record  for  this




22     hearing.  I appreciate  your  participation  and  would




23     again invite you to submit written comments as  you see




24     fit prior to May 25.  Thank  you very  much  for  participating.




25                       (Whereupon, at 1;50  P.M.,  the  hearing




                was  closed.)

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                                                      143

 1                     CERTIFICATE

 2

    This is to certify  that  the attached proceedings

    before the United States Environmental Protection

    Agency, in the Matter  of:

 6

 7             PUBLIC  MEETING OF:

 8             PROPOSED  LANDFILL DISPOSAL GUIDELINES

 9

10  I           Embassy Room

11  !           Shamrock  Hilton  Hotel

12             Houston,  Texas

13  '           Thursday,  May  11, 1979

14

15  j were held as herein  appears,  and that this is the

16  I official transcript  thereof for the files of the

17  | Agency .

18

19
                             DannyE.Baldridge,        >
20                            Court Reporter and Notary Publicj

21

22

23

24

25

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E, P, A,

PROPOSED   GUIDELINES

  F 0 R
SANITARY   LANDFILLS
COMMENTS  OFFERED  TO  THE   EPA
AT THEIR  PUBLIC HEARING,
HOUSTON,  MAY  IT ,  1979
                 by Dr Geoffrey  Stanford,

                    Director, Greenhills Center.

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AFFILIATION
I am Dr. Geoffrey Stanford.  I trained and practiced as a physician and
surgeon.  I now practice public health and preventive medicine "by environ-
mental planning.
I am director of the Greenhills Environmental and Research Center.  We
operate on 1,000 acres of land in Dallas, under the patronage of Fox &
Jacobs, Inc., home builders to Texas.  They are building homes on such a
large scale that they recognize the problem of disposable wastes produced
not only by their own construction efforts, but forever after by their
homeowners.  They have a real interest in our environmental studies and
research, and support us splendidly.  We also work for other authorities,
for example, I am the fortunate recipient of a research grant from the
E.P.A. to study the use of refuse and sewage sludge as a soil manure.
In fact, our trial grounds are only forty minutes away from here, and I
would be glad to show our results to you:  the crop yield is some 2 3/U
times greater with urban vastes than vith chemical fertilizer.  We have
another grant from the National Center for Appropriate Technology to
study a novel way of generating biogas from wastes.
COMMENTS

Your "Proposed Guidelines" is an excellent document, and the E.I.S.
which accompanies it is an elegant idea for backup.  Any comments that I
make about them must seem to be nit-picking.  But other societies which
are in better harmony with nature than we are hold nits to be an esteemed
article of diet.  We now know that many insects provide in their integu-
ment essential proteins which are not readily available from other
dietary sources amongst primitive peoples.  For the same reason, the
Indians of San Francisco Bay used to eat grasshoppers.  Is this why
Pacifica supplies us with chocolate-coated ants for the gourmet sections
in our supermarkets?  In any event, I hope my contribution of intellectual
nits will be equally acceptable to you and prized by you.  Here they
are: -
1.  CLAY LINER

Page 53 of your E.I.S. says that:  Because of drying out and cracking,
it "should be installed only as fill construction progresses".

1.1. a)  This clay liner so installed is likely to be disturbed by the
compactor when it is backing and slewing as it works from the bottom of
the refuse mass uphill, and so uses this clay as its base-pad.  That is
likely to churn up the clay, and may break its continuity.  It, will
certainly spoil the evenness of its spread,

b)  Many landfills are run as cut-and-fills using the soil from their
cut to cover the fill as they progress.  So those must necessarily
install their clay liner "only as fill progresses".

c)  The contractor who supplies the clay cannot plan a regular flow of
clay; he may have matched the estimated rate of available supply to his
estimated rate of the requirement.  If his estimate is upset, he may

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be tempted to use material other than clay, while the landfill operator
may be tempted to proceed without benefit of clay liner.   In either
case the integrity of the liner will be destroyed.  How do you suggest
that these failures of the liner can be avoided?
1.2.  My next points are about the clay material itself.

a)  Clays are readily flocculated by chemicals, for example,  heavy
metals.

b)  If, for example, a case of mercury batteries, or a bag of lead
acetate is deposited near to the floor, leachates may flow from them and
be locally concentrated in a chance low point left by the operation of
the compactor.

c)  Or a cavity in, for example, a washing machine or a refrigerator,
may suddenly disintegrate, and in collapsing discharge a heavy dose of
some flocculent material which will then run as a rivulet straight to a
local point of the liner.

d)  Any of these will effectively punch a hole in the clay liner, and
destroy its integrity.  And nobody will be able to know where, and
therefore how to plug it.
1.3.  Now about the polymer lining membrane.  When this is laid in
strips "as fill construction progresses" it must be sealed to the pre-
vious strip. Scheduling this skilled operation may be difficult or
impossible.  The landfill operator may be tempted to proceed with his
fill even though the overlap has not yet been jointed.  Once again, the
entire liner operation is destroyed.
2.  FLOOD PLAIN SITES

The Guidelines provide for diking.  This assumes that diking and liner
will together prevent water infiltrating or overflowing in the event of
flood.  But what about the water table that is below the fill, when
floods occur?  Hydraulic pressure will lift and crack the liner floor.
Then leachate will flow out when the water has settled again, and for-
ever after.  How do you propose to prevent that?

In hospital practice we are accustomed to nurses wearing caps.  These
originated as a means of keeping the infection in their hair from dropping
into open wounds.  But the caps have now become smaller and smaller, and
the hair styles bigger and bigger.  The caps no longer perform their
function, yet we feel safe because the nurse is wearing her cap.  Are
these liners functioning similarly:  as methods of easing our conscience,
but of no help to the environment?  Just because we have no better
solution to offer yet, are we entitled to recommend these liners in good
faith? Is this not the same white-washing mentality that nuclear pro-
ponents use when they try to foist on the, public the idea that radio-
active wastes can safely be stored in salt mines for millions of years?

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                                      -3-
Why does not the E.P.A. openly admit these disadvantages, and invite
better solutions?  Even if more expensive short-term, we must bear that
cost to protect our children.

For example, an immediate solution which is entirely feasible is to
declare that any industry that makes or sells any toxic or hazardous
materials must detoxify them at their own, internal cost, both at point
of production and at points of disposal, and not externalize them into a
solid waste or sewage system at public expense.  This puts the respon-
sibility where it belongs, and many toxic and hazardous materials would
be withdrawn from the market - as they should be.
3.  REVEGETATION (Page 117 of the E.I.S.)


3.1«  "Native grasses have shallow root systems".  Native grasses on the
prairies, all the way from Texas through Nebraska and beyond, have roots
that go two, three and even more meters deep.

3.2.  Should mention be made in this section of the poisonous effects of
methane on root formation?  A tree could easily send its roots deeply
down into the landfill through the strata  of soil which is used for
daily cover; but they are killed at once by the methane that is being
generated all around them.  Perhaps some trees which are tolerant to
methane could be planted, for example, those that grow well in marsh and
riverine systems.

3.3.  On page 118, you provide a fine starting list suitable for ground
cover.

a)  I would like to invite you to provide  also the Latin specific names,
since English names change from place to place.

b)  Could you also add the soil preferences of some of these plants?
For example, in our area New Jersey tea grows only on bare chalk; it is
outcompeted by grasses.  Do you have in the north a New Jersey tea which
grows in normal soil?  Is it the same species as ours?  Again, our
prairie rose grows only in alkaline gumbo  clay, heather only grows in
acid sand.

c)  I question the inclusion of Kudzu:  here in Texas it is reckoned to
be a noxious invader, effectively impossible to eradicate.  Its use is
best confined to areas where it is killed  every winter by the cold.

d)  You may like to add the Cucurbitaceae, which thrive on wet paper and
seem to tolerate the methane.  We have grown the sweetest and largest
watermelons down here on the pile of refuse that was left over from
loading my trial grounds.

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                                 -U-
U.  GENERAL REMARKS
I would like to suggest to you that an opening remark that  identifies
the status of these proposed guidelines might veil be added.   It  would
go well on page 18139, column 1, immediately following the  heading
"Discussion of Proposed Guidelines".  I offer the following as a
starting point for re-editing:
           ' SCOPE.
                                                              the
                                                                g
          In the  present  time  of contracting  energy  supplies, th
          E.P.A.  appreciates that resource  recovery  and  recyclin
          must be the prime obj ective of any  wastes  management
          program.  The E.P.A.  appreciates  that  an integrated
          approach to management of municipal resources  —  sewage,
          refuse, and drinking water, is mandated to begin  in
          FY 1980.  Yet there  will probably always be  a  small
          residue for which no economic  or  social use  can be
          found locally.   In managing this  residue one of the most
          acceptable ways today, in the  absence  of a better
          alternative, is the  well-managed  sanitary  landfill.
          These guidelines speak to that."

And, may I add in conclusion,  they do that  excellently.

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          FOR INCLUSION IN THE RECORD OP THE PUBLIC HEARING

              BY THE EKVIROKMEI TAL PROTECTION AC-EMCY ON

                           SOLID WASTE DISPOSAL

                           HOUSTON, MAY 17,1979


 From comments made after the Hearing, I apparently failed to make  clear
 several points in my ststPment.  This is an expansion of some  of these.

 1)  EPA end recommendations of others are having minimal effect on
     the practices of waste disposal.  The exennles of new permits
     for waste dispose! which were referred to - though  local because
     I am familiar with many of their details - have a general
     applicability.  They show that, in spite of all the current law,
     rules and reflations, new dutr.ps in the wrong nieces are being
     permitted now.
     Further, EPA's orcposed recommended guidelines would not have
     changed these bad decisions, which are not in the longterm
     best interests of the health and welfare of loctl communities
     or national aouetic resources and the environment.

 2)  That in env rerulatory process, two components are  essential for
     cost-effectiveness and goel achievement:

     a)  Surveillance end spot checks of the -policing type.

     b)  "Examination of projects for possible failure to achieve the
         intended goals and analysis to determine the reasons for not
         achieving the goals with recommendations to make amendments
         for nrevention of further deficiencies in achievement, if
         needed.

In the absence of thesp tv.o components amongst others, sll rules and
recommendations are'busy-work', which is inflationary and raises costs
without significant benefits.  In the case of waste disnosel, water
resources have only to be contaminated once to degrade them irrevocably
or for lonr neriods of time, hence the current concerns  regarding all
waste disposal.

The rxsmles I cited offered the panel a chance to exEtnine and  review
the resEnr.s for the poor deci sion-mfkinp and to develop  improvements w >.•-"•
which T 111 have v.idr annlication and block the loonholes and inadeouecies
or irregularities in practice.  I hope you will avail yourself  of this
opportunity.

A stepulse improvement is needed in control of waste dif-posal.  Guidance
by past and current events is essential to developing improvements.
Mechanisms for echievinr this should be part of the guidelines, possibly
as an appendix and reconvenestion by the nrnel.


Hay 18,1979                          D.  Karrack,  I. .D.     ,
420 Mulberry Lfne                                  ;
"ellrire.Tx. 77401                           ? / „       _

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                  Statement of Don Betterton
                        on behalf of
             The Houston Lighting & Power Company
           The Utility Solid Waste Activities Group
                              and
                 The Edison Electric Institute


           Public Hearing on Proposed Guidelines for
             the Landfill Disposal of Solid Waste
                 under Section 1008(a)(l) of
      The Resource Conservation and Recovery Act of 1976,
             U. S. Environmental Protection Agency

                          May 17, 1979
                         Houston, Texas


          My name is Don Betterton.  I am Manager of the Envi-

ronmental Protection Department of Houston Lighting and Power

Company.  I am appearing this morning on behalf of my company,

the Utility Solid Waste Activities Group ("USWAG"), and the

Edison Electric Institute.  USWAG is an informal consortium of

approximately 65 utility operating companies and the Edison

Electric Institute,  known as EEI.  EEI is the principal national

association of investor-owned electric light and power companies.

          The principal fuel used for the generation of elec-

tricity in the United States is coal.  The combustion of coal

creates large volumes of solid waste, particularly fly ash,

bottom ash, and flue gas emission control sludges.  The control

of these byproducts  under RCRA will seriously affect the opera-

tions and economics  of the electric utility industry.  Because

of this significant  impact, and because of our responsibilities

to operate in an environmentally responsible manner while main-

taining an adequate  energy supply for the nation, USWAG and EEI

-------
have commented and testified on substantially all of the Agency's

proposed RCRA regulations and guidelines.  We have also submitted

comments on Environmental Impact Statements prepared in conjunction

with earlier RCRA rulemaking proposals.—

          As you may recall, Mr. James King of Florida Power and

Light testified on behalf of his company, USWAG, and EEI at the

hearing on the proposed Landfill Disposal Guidelines held in

Washington on Tuesday.  His comments were directed at the guide-

lines themselves — that is, the document published in the March

26, 1979, Federal Register.  I will not repeat his comments today.

Instead, I will address myself to the draft Environmental Impact

Statement that was released in support of the proposed guidelines.

          We expect to file written comments covering both the

proposed Guidelines and the draft Environmental Impact Statement.

I will therefore limit my statement this morning to a brief descrip-

tion of four of our major concerns with the draft EIS:  first, our

belief that this document fails to meet recognized standards for

Environmental Impact Statements; second, our belief that the

document contains information that more properly should be part

of the guidelines themselves; third, our belief that the document

is potentially misleading in its technical descriptions of landfill

technologies; and fourth, our belief that cost estimates presented

are simplistic and misleading.
!_/  See EEI Comments on Draft EIS for proposed Criteria for
    Classification of Solid Waste Disposal Facilities,  June 5,
    1978;  USWAG Comments on Draft EIS for proposed Hazardous
    Waste  Guidelines and Regulations, Karch 16,  1979,  Appendix  7.

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        A major concern with this draft EIS is its failure, in

our view, to meet the requirements for an EIS.  An Environmental

Impact Statement is intended to be a document that will assist

agencies to reach informed decisions, not a repository of regula-
                                                     2/
tions, guidelines, or general background information.—    To

serve its intended function, an EIS must describe and objectively

weigh all reasonable alternatives to the proposed action.  Instead,

this document describes the state-of-the-art in municipal landfill

design and operation.  It does not describe or assess reasonable

alternatives to the landfilling of solid waste, such as landspread-

Ing, surface impoundments, and resource recovery.  It should do

so.  Moreover, it should assess those alternatives separately

for representative types of municipal and industrial wastes,

including utility waste.

        Another major concern is that we believe it is inappro-

priate for EPA to use the draft EIS to provide the "technical

and economic description of the level of performance" of solid

waste management practices that EPA is required to publish.—

        By relegating the great bulk of the substantive content

of the guidelines to the draft EIS, the Agency has implicitly

diminished the importance of that Information.  It also has
2_/  See National Environmental Policy Act ("NEPA") § 102(2)(B),
    (C), 42 U.S.C. S 4332(2)(S), (C) (1976); Council on Environ-
    mental Quality, Regulations Implementing NEPA Procedural
    Provisions, 40 C.F.R. §g 1502.1, 1502.2, 43 Fed. Reg. 55978
    (November 29, 1978); EPA, Procedures for the Voluntary Prepara-
    tion of EIS S 3(c), 39 Fed. Reg. 37^19, October 21, 1974.

I/  RCRA § 1008(a)(l).

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minimized the likelihood of comprehensive public comment within

the 60-day comment period.  As a practical matter, fewer people

will see the EIS than will see the Federal Register.   Therefore,

fewer people will comment.  This is clearly contrary to the goals

of the rulemaking process and sound public policy.

        We do not believe incorporation by reference cures

this defect.  USWAG urges EPA to repropose in the Federal Register

those portions of the draft EIS which are intended to be incor-

porated into the guidelines.   This will give them appropriate

visibility and give their "technical and economic descriptions"

meaningful exposure to public comment.

        We are also concerned that the technical descriptions

in the EIS are potentially misleading.  We commented at Tuesday's

hearing in Washington that the proposed guidelines overemphasize
                                                           h /
technologies primarily suited to municipal waste landfills.—'

That overemphasis raises our concern because some state regulators

may simply adopt the guidelines as a checklist for "sanitary

landfill" status under the Section l)004(a) Classification

Criteria, and improperly apply this checklist to utility waste

disposal facilities.

        This same concern applies to the draft EIS.   Many of

the unit technologies described in the draft EIS are  wholly

inappropriate for utility wastes.   These include, for instance,
V  See Statement of James J.  King,  Public Hearing on Proposed
    Guidelines for the Landfill Dispcsal of Solid Waste,  May
    15, 1979, Washington, D.C.

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shredding, baling, and compaction and daily cover for vector



control.  Similarly, gas control measures would be pointless



for inorganic utility wastes.  There is no indication that



leachate recycling, another municipal waste technology,  is



useful for landfills containing ash or scrubber sludge.   We



urge that each description of an alternative landfill technology



set forth in the EIS include a clear statement that it is to



be applied to a particular landfill only on an individual



case-by-case basis.  The choice of what technologies and



practices to apply must depend on the characteristics of the



particular intended landfill site.



          With regard to the cost estimates contained in the



EIS, we would like to make two brief comments.  First, these



cost estimates appear to be based primarily on experience with



municipal solid waste facilities.  The EIS should recognize and



consider the substantial variations in cost that result  from



differences in the character of the wastes being landfilled,



and the substantial regional differences in the cost of  certain



materials arid labor.



          Second, the draft EIS excludes the cost of what may



be the most expensive of the guideline recommendations — site



selection.  We have commented several times on the enormous



burden that will be imposed on utilities if we are restricted



from siting in potentially environmentally sensitive areas —

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especially floodplains and wetlands.—   We  find it  hard to

believe that a document that purports to be an Environmental

Impact Statement can ignore the adverse  environmental,  energy

and cost impacts of these broad siting restrictions.

        We wish to express our appreciation to you  for  the

opportunity to present these comments.

        Thank you.
5/  See EEI Comments on proposed Criteria for Classification
    of Solid Vaste Disposal Facilities, June 1?,  1978,  pages
    2-10; USl.'AG Comments on proposed nm'delincs  for  Develop-
    ment and Implementation of State Solid Waste  franr,gorient
    Plans, Docket iJ002(b), November 27, 1978, pages  '1-7;
    US'./AG aid Utility V'ater Act Croup CciM.ient s on proposed
    Statement of Procedures Pegardlng Eloodplain  I'ar.'igement
    and Wetlands Fiotcction, April 5, 19 !9, pages 2-11,

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                 PUBLIC HEARING
        ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY
            SHAMROCK HILTON HOTEL
               HOUSTON, TEXAS
               MAY 17, 1979

       LANDFILL DISPOSAL OF SOLID WASTE
             PROPOSED GUIDELINES
STATEMENT OF THE HOUSTON CHAMBER OF COMMERCE

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ROUGH DRAFT                                                     May  1**,  IT/9
               STATEMENT OF THE HOUSTON CHAMBER OF COMMERCE



                    LAM)i ILL DISPOSAL OF SOLID WASTE



                        I'ROPOSED  iJUlDtLINES



                            MAY 1 /,  iy/9
 1 am Jack Westney,  representing  the Houston Chamber of Commerce, and  I




 appreciate the opportunity to make this presentation on  behalf of  the Bo^rd




 of Directors and  the membership  of the Houston Chamber of  Commerce.









 The Houston Chamber of Commerce  is a voluntary organization of approximately




 6,500 busine>s and  professional  establishments working together  for the  b^tter-




 ment of our Houston area.  One of the Chamber's goals  is to enhance the  quality




 of the env i runment without unduly hindering the cont i nued  economi c devel Ojinieni




 that provides benefits and opportunities to all of the residents in this .>rea









 The Chamber appreciates  this opportunity of making specific comments on  tfe




 EPA's guidelines, with respect to locating solid waste management  fac i)i 11es




 in environmentally sensitive areas.   In these guidelines,  as well as  in  other




 proposed EPA regulations, the EPA appears to be indicating to State and  Federal




 land planners that sol id waste shouId rarely, If ever, be  di sposed of in Cuas t>i I




 areas such as Houston.









Anyone who is familiar with the  growth ond development of  the Houbton -area  is




 fully aware of  the tremendous efforts that people have made to establish t'.is




communSty in ?n area which was once nothing more than a swamp.  The c ommun,t y




 is proud of these accompli shments, vvh i ch tire cont inuing  today.

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S ta lenient of  t he HDub ton Hi jmbe r of Commerce
Pm|f 2
Aluinj with  this g ruwth and Jeve iopment has come an  increasingly serious solid

waste problem.  We have sought  to deal with this problem with  the same degree

of  ingenuity and human creativity that went into the overa 11 development of

our commun ity.  We- are one of the few coironuii ities thrjt  has  attempted to

incinerate  our garbage as a means of di sposa 1 ; and  one  of  the  country' s f i r :>t

recycling  facilities was constructed here.  However, through these develop-

men ts , we  have learned that incineration and  resource  recovery have not been

developed  to the point of completely answering our  solid waste problems.

Therefore,  we have found that, at least as an interim measure, landfi11 ing

of garbage  is still a major means of solving  the solid  waste problem.  If we

are unable  to locate solid woste disposal facilities within reasonable hauling

distance froit our population centers, we will quickly  re^ch a  crisis situation.



On  the basis of our review of the Proposed Guidelines  foi  Landfill Disposal of

Solid Waste, we believe that the EPA staff, in their overall development of

these guidelines has used sound judgement.  We must compliment the staff on

this practical experience approach  to the problem.  Th i s approach appears to

have been aimed at achieving the ends of the  Act In the most cost-effective

manner, on  a  s i te-spec i f i c bas i s.  As a part of the con^umi ng pub!i c, who

must pay for facilities to be built under these regulations, we applaud the
                       the
cons ideration given to/bite-specific approach in these  guidelines.



However, there are some parts of ihese guidelines which we  wish to emphasi/e

that should remain guidelines.   We are concerned that  recommendationb such

as those dealing with site selection in Paragraph 24),200-2, may eliminate

cons(deration of all  envi ronmenta My sensitive areas as potential disposal

sites, even when reasonable alteriutives to such sites  may  be  economically

or practically infeasible.   Each site proposal should lu- considered on its

-------
      ent of  th-' Houston Chamber iM tuum't i ce
owd individual merits, and without regard to Opposition, which is




unfounded by sound techn i ca1  or other app I i cab I e criteria.  The same reason inij





applies to Paragraph 241,207-2, which could force operators into large




expeditures for outside consuIting advice  wfth  little justification and no





guarantee thdt their operation would be approved.  We asked simply that these




requirements would be used as guidelines, and on a case-by-case, site-specific
In summary, we applaud the efforts of the EPA staff in develop!ng these




landfill guide!ines,as being a reasonable approach to managing the solid




waste problem  in all areas of the country.  Only through an effective and




realistic program of managing solid waste, may we maintain the growth and




quality of life in the Houston area.










                                         Thank you

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     Browning-Ferris Industries, Inc.
FANNIN BANKBLDG. • P.O. BOX 3151 • HOUSTON, TEXAS 77001 • (713)790-1611
                      Presentation


                          of
                    James R. Greco
                       Director
             Government and Industry Affairs
              Browning-Ferris Industries, Inc.
                        for the
                     Public Hearing
              Landfill Disposal of Solid Waste
                   Proposed Guidelines
                   (40CFR Part 2*1)
       United States Environmental Protection Agency

                          on

                      May 17, 1979
                     Houston, Texas
               pursuant to publication in the
                    Federal Register
                     March 26, 1979
                   Pages 18138-181*8

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       We  have  reviewed  the  proposed  100S  guidelines  and  recognize  the
importance of such information to state regulatory agencies, facility operators,
and the general public.  We feel that greater awareness, and implementation of
the guidelines  will stimulate  an enhanced  level of  environmental protection.
Additionally  we cfcmmend the  Agency  for  expressing in the  preamble to  the
guidelines that:
       "In promulgating these Guidelines EPA is certifying  that  they  represent
       sound solid waste management practices..."
and also allowing flexibility in many instances to fulfill the general requirements.
For example, acknowledgement  is made in  Section 2^1.202-1  of two differing
approaches for  managing landfill  leachate.

       Pursuant to  our review, some primary concerns we wish to bring to  the
Agency's attention pertain  to the uncertainty faced by disposal facility designers
and  operators  with respect  to  the  interpretation  of  what  may actually  be
required  to obtain a permit and maintain the permit.  Numerous sections of  the
guidelines are  subjective or  can  lead to subjective determination, such as  the
definition  of  "wetlands"  (Section  2*1.101(jj)),   the siting   of   facilities  in
environmentally sensitive areas and the associated  "alternatives" study (Sections
2
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Regarding specific recommendations, we suggest:

(1)    on page  18139 revision of the fourth paragraph under site selection
      so as to read:
             "These Guidelines,  however, recognize  that "location of  a
             landfill  disposal  facility  in a generally  unsuitable area
             (environmentally sensitive areas, zones of active faults, and
             karstterrain)  CAN be  possible  through  the application  of
             proper,  and   in  some  cases  sophisticated,  engineering
             techniques for design and operation."

(2)    on  page 181*1 in Section 2itl.!0t(u)  the  definition for "plans"  be
      revised to read:
             "...technical  reports and engineering  drawings, including a
             narrative operating description, prepared OR APPROVED  by
             professionals..."

(3)    on  page  18 W2  that Section 2i»i.200-2(a)  be interpreted as  a
      "general" guideline  and  that  a statement be added  noting  that a
      landfill  facility  may   be  sited  in   such   areas  provided  that
      appropriate  considerations be incorporated  into  the  design and
      operation of the facility.

      The following is suggested for Section 2i»1.200-2(a):
             "IN GENERAL environmentally sensitive  areas, including
             wetlands,  100-year floodplains, permafrost areas,  critical
             habitats of endangered species, and recharge zones  of sole
             source aquifers should  be avoided,  IF FEASIBLE, or receive
             lowest priority as potential locations for  landfill disposal
             facilities.     LOCATION   OF  A   LANDFILL  DISPOSAL
             FACILITY IN A  GENERALLY UNSUITABLE AREA (E.G.
             ENVIRONMENTALLY  SENSITIVE AREA) CAN BE POSSIBLE
             THROUGH THE APPLICATION OF PROPER, AND IN SOME

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             CASES,  SOPHISTICATED   ENGINEERING  TECHNIQUES
             FOR DESIGN AND OPERATION.  If these areas are to be
             considered the following subjects need to be addressed:"

(4)     on page 18142 in Section  24i.200-2(a)(l) the statement "increased
       costs, alone,  should not be sufficient  grounds  for dismissing an
       alternative..." can be inaccurate and inappropriate, if interpreted
       literally. There  may well be an occasion when  the cost impact is
       extreme, such that increased costs, alone, for an alternative can be
       a  sufficient reason for locating a facility in an ESA.  We suggest
       deleting this statement.

(5)     on page  18142 in Section 241.200-2(g) be revised to read:
             "Sites TO BE located in  the vicinity of airports,..."

(6)     on page  18142 reference is made in Section 241.200-2(1) to topics to
       be addressed  as to socio-economic effects, namely "other possible
       nuisance conditions".   We  suggest deletion  of "nuisance" since
       "nuisance conditions" should be precluded if  the site is properly
       designed and operated.

(7)     on page  18142 we suggest  that Section 241.201-2(b)(2) be revised to
       read:
             "Establish the depth to  the water table and the direction of
             groundwater flow."
       Proper  design  should   preclude   contact  with   groundwater.
       Additionally to establish the "rate of groundwater flow with special
       consideration  of  current  and projected  withdrawal  rates  by
       groundwater users" would be very costly.

(8)     on page  18142 that Section 241.201-2(b)(3) be changed to state:
             "Establish GENERAL potential interactions of the landfill
             disposal facility  WITH its hydrogeology..."

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      (9)     on page  181<»3, Section  2  Section  241.202-2(g)  is  vague  and necessarily
             subjective and should be defined by  identifying certain parameters.

The above-noted  recommendations,  we feel, can enhance the practicality of the
proposed guidelines and minimize the economic impact without sacrificing safety
or environmental  protection levels.

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       We  are  pleased to  participate  in  this rulemaking process  and  are
supportive of the Agency's efforts to promulgate guidelines that will identify and
describe available practices which provide for the protection of public health and
the environment.   Such conscientious efforts can  well  lead to  greater public
understanding of and confidence in both  the ability of environmental agencies to
properly regulate  disposal practices and the  capability of facility operators to
safely  and soundly design, construct, and  operate landfills.   Solid waste landfill
disposal facilities are a necessary part of an  overall solid  waste management
system, whether as the primary disposal  method or a compatible feature of a
resource  recovery  program.   Whatever  system  a  community implements,
however,  the  public demands protection of public health and the environment.
These guidelines are a significant step in that direction.

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                        Statement


                            of


                      Angus MacPhee

                         President

                  Disposal Industries, Inc.



                          for the

                      Public Hearing
       United States Environmental Protection Agency
                            on

                    Proposed Guidelines
               Landfill Disposal of Solid Waste

                        pursuant to

                     Section 1008(a)(l)
             Amended Solid Waste Disposal Act
(Resource Conservation and Recovery Act of 1976, P.L. 94-580)
                       May 17, 1979
                      Houston, Texas

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      The United States Environmental Protection Agency, and in particular, its
Office of  Solid Waste, are to be  commended for  developing  these  proposed
guidelines.    Final  promulgation  of  these  guidelines  and  their  widespread
dissemination should lead  to increased awareness and recognition by the general
public that solid wastes can be disposed in landfill facilities in a manner that will
protect public health and the environment.  Furthermore these guidelines  when
implemented and followed by operators of landfill disposal facilities should result
in a general upgrading of the state-of-the-art for disposal technologies.

      Regarding numerous  particular sections of the guidelines, for example, as
to design, leachate control,  gas control,  operation, etc.,  I am pleased with the
flexibility allowed by the "recommended practices" in order to achieve and fulfill
the "general requirements".  Such flexibility is necessary as is the reasonable and
practicable  interpretation  of the requirements by regulatory agencies and the'
public.  To the extent practicable,  I hope such interpretation is also uniformly
applied among the States.

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                       COMMENTS ON PROPOSED EPA RULES FOR




                       LANDFILL DISPOSAL OF SOLID WASTE,




                       FEDERAL REGISTER, MARCH 26, 1979
Gentlemen, my name is W. Mutton, and I  am appearing here on behalf




of the Texas Chemical Council.









The Council is an association of 77 chemical  companies with over 62,000




employees and representing approximately 90 percent of the chemical




industry in Texas.  Over half of the nation's petrochemicals are




produced by member compan ies operat ing  in Texas.









The Council has a long history of cooperation with state and federal




agencies in the furtherance of respons ible environmental  legislation




and regulation.  We appreciate this opportunity to make an input into




the standards-setting process for solid waste control.









We have followed the developrnent of rules and regulations under the




Solid Waste Act since the law was enacted in  1976.  Naturally, our effort




has focused mainly on Sections 300'~lO  dealing with hazardous waste




materials.  However, today, we wish to  also express our interest In




landfill regulations by making a few comments on  the proposed  rules




published in the Federal Register of March 26, 1979-









We compliment the staff on their over-all practical experience approach




to the problem as they developed these  proposed guidelines.  The staff

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 COMMENTS  ON  PROPOSED  EPA  RULES  FOR
 LANDFILL  DISPOSAL  OF  SOLID  WASTE,
 FEDERAL REGISTER,  MARCH 26,  1979
approach appears  to be aimed at achieving the ends of the Act in the

most cost-effective manner on a si te-speci f lc basi's.



We concur with the philosophy expressed in Section 241.202-2 (al "unless

underlying groundwater is determined to be unusable as a drinking water

on other supply source and therefore is not in need of protection, the

bottom of the  landfill disposal facility should be substantially (.1.5

meters or more) above the seasonal high groundwater table...".   This

statement recognizes an approach we have taken En many long discussions

with the EPA staff concerning Sections 3001-10,



Groundwater and aquifers are not necessarily the same thing tn most

instances.  For instance, in this area of the nation, we are standing

not many feet above sea level.  The water table may be only a foot below

the surface of the ground.  Since the height above sea level is  smal1

there is little driving force or head,  and because the ground is mostly

clay the horizontal movement of groundwater fs very slow.   Because of

the clays, the vertical movement of water, according to the U.S. Coast

and Geodet\c Survey people,  is In geologic time.   The aquifer under the

Houston-GaJveston area is some 6QO to 1,200 feet  below us, protected by

clays and shale.   The recharge area for this acqui far is In Montgomery

County,  some 50 miles north  of where we now are.



It is not our intent to casually dismiss such groundwater  and say

absolutely no protect!on  is  warranted.   Site-specific decisions  should

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Comments On Proposed EPA Rules For
Landfill Disposal of Solid Waste,
Federal Register, March 26, 1979
be made.  We think you have recognized this in the proposed regulations.

Landfills should not be built where there are known surface faults or

act i ve faults, and you have recognt zed this in your regulations.   Very

rigid and strenuous requ i rements should be imposed for ]andf i1J s  needed

in an aquifer recharge area, and you have recognized this in your

regulations.  Less stringent requirements are necessary in areas  such

as the Gulf Coast area where the groundwater is not usable, and  we

believe you have recognized this.  We concur that attenuation  of

leachate in groundwater is experienced.  In many cases, again  on  a site-

specific basis, this attenuation alone will suffice to protect  the

brackish waters found in the Gulf Coast area and other coastal  areas.



We endorse the application of engineering principles to minimize  the

contact of contaminated materials in high groundwater areas.  The impli-

cation in Section 2^(1.202-2 (a) "that pumping may be necessary to lower

the water table" suggests  that alternative solutions wi11 be considered

on a ca se-by case s\te-spec i fIc bas i s.   We concur that a  site-specific

approach will offer the most effective solution to these  problems.

Furthermore, it is stated  that:  "A groundwate r mon Storing system should

be installed for the purpose of detecting the impact of all landfill

d!sposal faci1i t ies,  whi ch have the potent ial for discharge to an under-

ground drinking water source".  This seems to say that where there is

little or no potential for the leachate to reach an aquifer a  ground-

water monitoring system is not required.  We endorse this practical

approach, and we believe this alternative should be spelled out  so the

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Comments on Proposed EPA Rules For
Landfill Disposal of Solid Waste,
Federal Register, March 26, 1979
administrator of the program will have a clear definition of choices

in site-specific decisions.
May lit, 1979

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                   APPLICATIONS OF GEOLOGY TO HOUSTON' S  PROBLEMS



                             3.   SOLID WASTE DISPOSAL


                                        1                  2
                      Richard S. Barnett and James M.  Eagan
INTRODUCTION



     The cities of antiquity in Europe and Asia used to build themselves



upward on mounds of their accumulated wastes and refuse at a rate of



close to a foot per century. That was when people left their wastes



where they worked and lived. Although that ancient practice persists



in the form of uninhibited littering and unauthorized open dumping,



most Houstonians prefer to get rid of their solid wastes somewhere



away from where they live. The free-wheeling, throw-away economy of



Houston ensures that everyone contributes more than double the
1    J. M. Huber Corporation, Houston, Texas

2    Cities Service Oil Company, Houston, Texas

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Barnett & Eagan
Solid Waste Disposal
national daily average of 3-2 pounds of solid wastes (the 19?U EPA

estimate). Houston's municipal refuse alone exceeds 1500 tons daily.

Although this mass of garbage, trash, rubbish, dead animals, abandoned

cars, and demolition and construction wastes is equivalent to less than

one percent of the daily sediment load of the Mississippi River, it is

more than enough to present obvious health, fire and safety hazards.

Manufacturing wastes, precipitates from air-pollution control equipment,

the residues of sewage treatment, and a variety of reactive petrochemical

wastes add to these hazards.

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Barnett & Eagan
Solid Waste Disposal
WASTE DISPOSAL METHODS

     The conventional means of solid waste disposal include open

dumping, incineration and open burning, composting, feeding edible

garbage to hogs, and burial in sanitary landfills.

     Many regulatory and economic circumstances combine in a process of

elimination which leaves the use of sanitary landfills as the inevitable

method of solid waste disposal in Houston. A major objective of the

Office of Solid Waste of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency is

to end all open dumping in the nation by 1983- Federal and state controls

in principle rule out open dumping. Big increases in the price of

natural gas obliged the City of Houston to give up incineration many

years age. Incineration and open burning elsewhere in the area are

closely restricted where not altogether forbidden by fire and E.P.A air

quality regulations. Composting is used to dispose of sewage residues

and organic wastes in many parts of Europe and Asia. Controlled bacterial

decomposition turns these wastes into a form of humus which can be used

for fertilizer and soil conditioner. In round numbers, the greater

Houston area generates 300 million gaULons of sewage daily, and each

million gallons yields a ton of solid residue. This residue is taken to

landfills without composting. The feeding of garbage to pigs is practical

in Houston only on a limited basis by private arrangement where a large,

institutional source can deliver a steady supply of fresh food wastes.

Unsorted and putrefying municipal wastes are unsuitable.

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Barnett & Eagan
Solid Waste Disposal


     Sites for sanitary landfill operations are therefore already in

demand in the Houston area, and they are likely to remain so even after

enlightened methods of solid waste management are adopted.  Seventy-four

solid waste disposal sites of all sizes and descriptions were identified

in Harris County in 1976 (text fig.l). Many more unauthorized sites were

not listed. About a third of the seventy-four registered sites are now

closed, including the Holmes Road site which used to receive most of the

City of Houston refuse. Five new sites have been opened, and several

others are nearing capacity. Permits are being sought for new landfill

sites. The pressure to end open dumping and close unsatisfactory solid

waste disposal operations, the filling of available landfills, and the

growth of the solid waste supply all mean that new sanitary landfill

sites will be needed for a long time to come.

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Barnett and Eagan
Solid Waste Disposal
THE ROLE OF GEOLOGY

     A sanitary landfill is an area of land where solid   wastes may

be buried under controlled conditions which are designed to prevent

nuisances and hazards to health and safety. Sanitary landfills have

been in use in the United States since 190^ (the term dates from the

133C's). Their basic physical requirements for the protection of health,

safety and environment are now well established. They depend directly

upon the surface and subsurface geologic conditions at the landfill

site.  The landfill must be able to retain buried wastes and keep them

isolated from any contact or reaction with the outer environment.

Chemical wastes may require burial in a medium with the capacity to

neutralize or absorb them. Above all, water has to be Xept out and

prevented from joining in chemical and bacterial reactions which would

form a poisonous discharge, termed a leachate, and poisonous gases.

     The possible external sources of water are rain and floodwaters

that soak through landfill cover from the surface, groundwater moving

laterally from a water-bearing stratum breached by the landfill, or by

capillary action or artesian flow from a water-bearing stratum below.

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Barnett & Eagan
Solid Waste Disposal
THE REGULATORY ENVIRONMENT

     Three state agencies supervise the burial of solid wastes in

sanitary landfills. The Texas Water Development Board oversees industrial

waste management, and the Texas Department of Health regulates   the

disposal of municipal and radioactive wastes. The Texas Railroad

Commission has the responsibility for wastes from oil field operations.

The regulations of all three agencies were formulate! under provisions

of the Resource Conservation and Recovery Act of 1976, in consultation

with the Office of Solid Waste of the U.S. Environmental Protection

Agency. All three sets of regulations include similar geological

specifications, and the three agencies have the geological expertise

needed to evaluate the data submitted in all applications for new

landfill sites.

     The standards for new solid waste disposal sites vary according to

the nature of the wastes they are to receive. Class 1 wastes are

hazardous industrial wastes. Class II wastes include municipal and

commercial refuse. Class III wastes are inert materials like building

and demolition wastes.

     The applicant for a sanitary landfill permit has the burden of

proving that a proposed site will be acceptable from every point of

view. Text-figure 2 is a flow chart for decision making in the site-

screening and selection process. It shows the primary place of geologic

factors, beginning with physiography, hydrology, and the characteristics

of  soil and substratum. Other concerns to be taken into account are

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                                    FACILITY OPERATIONS
 GEOLOGICAL

   ACTIVE FAULTS
   SUBSIDENCE
   KARST LANDFORMS
   ETC.
HYDROGEOLOGIC

  LOCATION ABOVE AQUIFER
  PERCHED WATERTABLE
  USE OF GROUNDWATER
  SOIL MOISTURE CONTENT
                                                          HAVE/CAN MODIFICATIONS
                                                          BEEN/BE MADE TO CORRECT
                                                          CONDITION'
                                                         NO
                                                        -REJECT
                                NEXT DECISION   YES
TOPOGRAPHICAL

  FLOODING
  EHROSIVITV
  ONSITE RETENTION
CLIMATIC

  PRECIPITATION
  RUN-OFF
 CULTURAL

  VISUAL AESTHETICS
 0

•0

-0
 CULTURAL

   ACCESS LAND-USE
  NOT ACCEPTABLE-REJECT
CULTURAL

  PUBLIC ACCEPTANCE
  NOT ACCEPTABLE-REJECT
 PROCEED TO SITE SELECTION
                                  NOT ACCEPT ABLE-REJECT
                                    Rgurt 4  Dwicion TTM

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Barnett & Eagan
Solid Waste Disposal
climate and prevailing winds, accesibility, nearness to source of waste,

availability of public utilities, population density, environmental

sensitivity, diversity and abundance of plant and animal life, the

value of the land for other purposes, and the social and political

climate. Disciplines other than geology enter into the consideration

of possible sites, and many of them are likely to bear more weight in

the final choice. Environmental and geological considerations are

complementary, but other criteria are very likely to conflict.

Nevertheless, the primary and unifying factors are geological, even if

they are claimed by technical specialists in hydrology, soil mechanics,

and civil and mechanical engineering. Having the advantage of an overview

of the subject should qualify geologists to coordinate »1 1 the

technical aspects of site selection.

     A technically sound proposal may not necessarily win warm public

acceptance. Geologists should be able to apply their comprehensive

vision to this problem to the extent of helping the public to appreciate

the benefits of a properly planned site and to respect the hazards of

open dumping and improper solid waste disposal.

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Barnett & Eagan
Solid Waste Disposal
SPECIFIC GEOLOGICAL CONSIDERATIONS

     G-eology enters two primary aspects of the evaluation and selection

of sites for solid waste disposal. These are the surface and subsurface

characteristics of any potential site.

     Hazards which can be avoided by geological evaluation of surface

conditions include flooding, surface water contamination, unstable

slopes, subsidence and active faulting. Suitable areas should be level

or gently rolling, open, undissected land which has enough elevation to

be above tracts which are subject to flooding by hurricanes or the

torrential downpours which accompany frontal systems. The environmental

geologic atlas by Fisher and others (1972) and the land resources maps

by StClair and others (1975) give valuable preliminary help in

identifying the areas which are most prone to coastal and inland.

floodirxg, faulting, or severe erosion by gullying and slumping.  Unusual

circular elevations, two kilometers or so in diameter, mark the  locations

of shallow piercement salt domes where mining or storage activities

could invite problems in landfill operations.

     Technical information must be compiled and submitted to document

the natural relief and drainage in and near a proposed site in order to

show "that it is not prone to hazards. This information will be given

in the form of maps, aerial photographs, and legal descriptions, which

will also contain all sorts of other required information. Aerial

photographs from the U.S. Department of Agriculture or commercial

sources must show site boundaries and the area within two miles  of a

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Barnett & Bagan
Solid Waste Disposal


site. The maps specified include a location map, a U.S.G.S. topographic

quadrangle map, a land use map, and a detailed topographic survey of

the site with plans of the operational layout. We strongly advise a

statement that the applicants have inspected the site and made sure

that they have not overlooked any unusual conditions.

     The hazards which can be averted by proper geologic appraisal of

subsurface conditions include discharges into atmosphere or groundwater,

reactions with specific reactive substances, and susceptibility to

disruption by faulting. The containment of gas and leachates in a

landfill is accomplished by excavating it in an impermeable medium.

Clays and marls serve the purpose best, and the Beaumont Clay of the

Houston area is ideal as far as its impermeability and moisture retention.

It is notoriously heavy work to excavate, however, and it is deservedly

infamous for shrinking and cracking during dry weather. This characteristic

means that a better topsoil must be used for at least the final layer

of landfill cover. The maps by Fisher and others (1972) and StClair

and others (1975) again serve as a preliminary guide to areas of

impermeable clay soils and active surface faulting. Being surface maps,

they do not show the variable makeup of the Beaumont Clay or where it

reaches an effective thickness of fifty feet or more. As an alluvial

floodplain deposit, the Beaumont Formation naturally has some sandy

river channel and levee deposits in addition to the clay for which it

is named. These sandy units are porous and permeable, and they contain

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Barnett & Eagan
Solid Waste Disposal
perched water tables which supply many shallow water wells. Landfill

excavations mast therefore avoid the sandy parts of the Beaumont

Formation.

     A program of testing is required in order to show that a proposed

landfill can  be opened in an impermeable substratum without endangering

groundwater supplies by breaching or stopping just short of a. water-

bearing stratum. An array of soil borings will be planned in

consultation with the appropriate state agency. The number of soil

borings depends on the size and purpose of the landfill. Their minimum

depth will be 5 to 20 or more feet below the proposed depth of

excavation, according to soil conditions. The practical depth of

excavation in the Houston area is not likely to exceed thirty feet, so

fifty to sixty foot borings are routine. Professional soils laboratory

reports must be prepared from the logs and samples of each boring. Report

data include the number, thickness, and classification of the soil layers

penetrated in each boring, the depth of the water table if reached, and

a soil analysis of at least one sample from each soil layer. The

laboratory report covers such soil properties as dry unit weight, grain-

size statistics, permeability, water retention, and plasticity. Permeabilty
                      _7
must not exceed 1 x 10  cm/sec. An alkaline soil pH and a high cation

exchange capacity are desirable for industrial waste disposal.

     Assembling such comprehensive and detailed surface and subsurface

data in favor of a landfill site may very well seem burdensome when

non-technical considerations can prove to be more decisive in the

granting of permits. Even so, the need for application of good geology

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Barrett & Eagan
Solid Waste Disposal
is fundamental and indispensable.

     The majority of the solid waste disposal sites shown in text-

figure 1 happen to fall within the belt of exposure of the Beaumont

Clay. This fact is more a result of prevailing land use patterns than

a deliberate application of good geology.  The location of so many sites

close to bayous and streams betrays their haphazard origin.  Three sites

lie inside the meander belt of the San Jacinto River below Lake

Houston, for example, and twenty-four are located within one mile of

the Houston Ship Channel. Scarcely a dozen sites are more than a mile

away from one of the larger creeks and bayous.

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Barnett and Eagan
Solid Waste Disposal
SOLID WASTE MANAGEMENT

     The 1970 Resources Recovery Act and the 1976 Resource Conservation

and Recovery Act were enacted with the long range intention of

replacing solid waste disposal with solid waste management. The goal

is to develop the means to reclaim industrial raw materials from

solid wastes. Some of the systems being studied include using processed

refuse as a supplementary or primary fuel for generating steam and

electricity, waste heat recovery from incineration, pyrolysis, methane

production by anaerobic fermentation of organic wastes, composting,

source separation of recyclable materials, mixed-waste processing for

materials separation, the compaction of inert residues for building

and road materials, and the prevention of waste at its source. Pilot and

commercial examples of each system are in operation in other parts of

the country. Houston is not a leader in this respect. Ferrous scrap is

recovered from municipal refuse at one of the commercial landfill sites

used by the City of Houston. The City itself limits its role in solid

waste, management to collection and transportation. Source-separation of

a few recyclable materials like paper and aluminum cans depends on

the interest of a comparitively few enthusiasts and the indulgence of

a few companies who are able to put public interest first.

     Solid waste management should really become one of Houston's next

growth industries. It will, however, require the application of new

personal outlooks and public policies to replace an economy that

depends on waste generation with one where waste reduction and waste

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Harriett & Eagan
Solid Waste Disposal
management are economic. Although geology has no direct application

here and discussion of specific systems is beyond the scope of this

article, we agree that geologists as enlightened scientists and citizens

would much rather direct themselves to solid waste management than

solid waste disposal.

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Solid Waste Disposal






                                REFERENCES






BALLAS, J. A., and S. KIDD, 1971, Regional atlas;  Houston-




     Galveston Area Council:  Houston-Galveston Area Cour.cil




     of Governments, 28p. of maps.




BARXES, V. E., Project Director, 1968, Houston Sheet:  Univ.




     Texas, Austin, Bur. Econ. Geology Geol. Atlas of Texas.




BETZ, F. , Jr., Ed., 1975, Environmental geology:  Dowden,




     Hutchinson £ Ross, Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania, 390p.




FARB, D., 1975, Land disposal technology for industrial wastes:




     In U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, Industrial waste




     management - seven conference papers:  U.S.Environmental




     Protection Agency, Cincinnati, SW-156, p.  76-97.




FIELDS, T., and A. W. LINDSEY, 1975, Landfill disposal of




     hazardous wastes:  a review of literature  and known




     approaches:  U.S. Environmental Protection Agency,




     Cincinnati, SW-165:  36p.




FISHER, W.L., J. H. McGOWEK, L.  F. BROWN, Jr. and C.  G. GROAT,




     1972, Environmental geologic atlas of the  Texas  Coastal




     Zone - Galveston-Houston area:  Univ. Texas, Austin, Bur.




     Econ. Geology, 91p.



FLAWK, P. T., 1970, Environmental geology:  Harper 6  Row, New




     York, 313p.



	, L. J. TURK, and C. H. LEACH, 1970, Geologic considerations




     in disposal of solid municipal wastes in Texas:   Univ.  of




     Texas, Austin, Geol. Circ.  70-2, 22p.

-------
                       J. M. HUBER CORPORATION
                              OIL AND GAS DIVISION
cc:   Kill fan
     Blackwel1
     Personnel  file
TO          Gulf Coast               FROM     J.  S. Collins

ATTENTION    Richard S.  Barnett                May 25,  1978

SUBJECT     PERMISSION TO  PUBLISH  TECHNICAL  PAPER
            The Oil  & Gas  Division,  J. M.  Huber  Corporation gives

            its permission to  publish  a Technical  Paper  titled

            "Applications  of Geology to Houston's  Problems, Solid

            Waste Disposal".   A copy of the draft  is attached for

            Division and Corporate  files.
                                       G.  L.  Bross

-------
        GEOLOGY OF THE GREATER HOUSTON AREA
  I.  COVER
 II.  .FORWARD
III.  TABLE OF CONTENTS

 IV.  INTRODUCTION

  V.  SUMMARY OF HOUSTON
        A"RET1;EX)LOGY

 VI.  GEOLOGIC SETTING               DeWitt Van Siclen

      A.  Surface Geology &
            Active Processes

            Part I                   Rufus LeBlanc
                                     Tom Auld
                                     Greg Larberg
                                     Paul Lipinski

            Part II                  DeWitt Van Siclen

      B.  Subsurface Geology         Rex Travis
                                     Clyde Williams

      C.  Life in the Geologic       Ken Kodgkinson
            Past

      D.  Ancient Vertebrates

VII.  NATURAL RESOURCES
      A.   Oil £ Gas

      B.   Sulphur 6 Salt

      C.   Gravel E Sand

      D.   Shell £ Limestone

      E.   Clays

      F.   Uranium

      G.   Underground Storage

-------
 VII.  NATURAL RESOURCES (CONT'D)

       H.  Building Stones Used       Alex Vandenberg
             in Houston

       I.  Land £ Water Resources     A. E. St.Clair
             in the Houston-          et al
             Galveston Area Council

       J.  Water Supply £ Quality     Bob Thornton

VIII.  THE PHYSICAL ENVIRONMENT       Bob Thornton

       A.  Weather 6 Climate;         Bob Thornton
             Hurricanes

       B.  Soils 5 Natural            John Ruggles
             Vegetation

       C.  Hydrology                  Bob Thornton

  IX.  ENVIRONMENTAL GEOLOGY          Jim Lewis

       A.  Solid Waste Disposal       Dick Barnett
                                      Jim Egan

       B.  Liquid Waste Disposal      Howard Hough

       C.  Flood Control 6            Bob Thornton
             Drainage

       D.  Foundation Problems        John Ruggles

       E.  Subsidence, Faulting 6     H. C. Clark
           Earthquakes

       F.  Homebuyer's Guide          John Ruggles

   X.  FIELD GUIDE                    Clyde Beckwith
                                      __


  XI.  ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS

 XII.  GLOSSARY OF TECHNICAL TERMS

XIII.  SELECTED REFERENCES

 XIV.  INDEX
 CS - 10/78

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                            J.  o. LEWIS
                               GEOLOGIST
                             IO919 WICKWILD
                          HOUSTON TEXAS 77O24

                          February 10,  1978
To:  Members of H.G.S. Environmental Committee

      The Houston Geologic Society is going to publish a "Geologic Guide
to the Greater Houston Area". Thi? publicaHnn will be written for the
non-professional geologist.  At this time the publication date is spring,       .       ,
1979 in time for the AAPG Convention.  The "Special Publications" com-      * '**"*"•
mittee headed by Cyrus Strong is in charge of this publication. The
"Environmental  Committee" has been asked to write four sections of the
"Applications of Geology to Houston's Problems"  These will include the
following:
      1.  Subsidence, Faulting & Earthquakes
      2.  Liquid Waste Disposal
      3.  Solid Waste Disposal     ,^f.i'  ^ti-'.cvf/"*
      4.  Underground Storage                  ^^.^    ^c ^x /*f«~
      We need to start preparing the above four sections as soon as   J^"'
possible.  Each member of the Environmental Committee should indicate _ /
to me as soon as possible which of the above subjects they would care
to help prepare.                                                    Jf'
      1 am asking all members of the Committee to meet at the Holiday
Inn  - Medical Center at 11:00 prior to the HGS noon meeting of the HGS
on February 22. We will meet south of the elevators on the same floor
as the Tanglewood Room.
SineeTelv;
      ' '  f I /  /                                        f.B ~^-t .,  <£ .
                                                                     73T
JOL/dc •


                XW""«^ v7

-------
           NOTES FOR AUTHORS - "GEOLOGIC GUIDE TO THE GREATER HOUSTON AREA"


1.   Readers  -  Publication is written for the educated public with so^ie knowledge of
     geology.   The text level should be on a par with the fialional Grogr? nine  cr the
     earlier  HGS publication "Geology of Houston Area (1961")."  L'nfamil ipr  terms
     should be  avoided  wherever possible.  Where not possible, they can be  included
     in the glossary section.  (Put all these words separately on 3 X 5 cards.)
           A  good way to insure the text is at the proper level  is to have  it  read
     by your  wife/husband, son/dauahtei , etc.  This will  quickly show up what
     portions  need to be rewritten, further illustrated,  or made more interesting.

2.   Glints to  Ajthors
                                                »
           Refer to "Preparation of Manuscripts for the Bulletin" by Sherman Wengerd
     (1966) AAPG Vol. 50,  No. 9, pp. 1848-1867 (attached).

3.   II lustrations

           Pipers should be illustrated with carefully chosen photns and diagrams
     which help communicate and explain the ideas in the text.  The text should  not
     be writcen around  the illustrations.  Examples of good illustrations  are
     contained  in Scientific American and Tina-Li^e books.
           Photographs  shouTcTbe large, black" and white,  glossy prints.   Figuras
     should be  black and white line drawings or velox.
           Illustrations will be reduced by the publisher to fit on a 1/1,  1/2,
     or full  sized 8-1/2 x, 11 inch  page. Original  lettering should be large
     enough so  that it  will  still  be legible following tins reduction.   Double
     facing paces may be used for  some illustrations, but tnese should be  diLCusseu
     with the  committee as soon as  possible.  Fold-outs should be avoided.   A  large
     map can  be included in an envelope in the back if necessary.

4.   Manuscripts

           nar,,^ci-i|jt-  should be typewritten on 8-1/2 x 11 i"ch "h-if ''o^  p?no-
     They shoula be double-spaced  wi'h a 6-1/2 inch line length.  Two cop.es'of
     the manuscript, tables and illustrations should be submitted to the editors.
     Illustrations and  photos should be kept flat and not rolled or foldea.

5.   Abstracts

           Not  recniired.

6.   Headings

           Headings are very important as signposts to the introduction of  new
     topics in  the text.  Some of  the manuscripts received so far h3ve ben  dis-
     organized  and confusing.  Proper use of headings will clarify the subject
     both for  the autiiors  and the  readers.  See Wer.gerd's article, p. 1851  for
     more information.   The three-cl^ss subdivision of headings h?s proven  helpful
     to the AAPG & CCAGS in their  publications.

-------
7.   References

           Specific references in the text should be kept to a minimum.  A selected
     reference list can be included at the end of each article for the reader who
     wishes to learn more.

8.   Final Format

           The final  page format will be similar to the GCAGS transactions and the
     Transactions of the American Society of Cost Engineers (copy attached).  The
     manuscript will  be typed on oversized paper in two columns (ragged edge),
     reduced iT'ustrations will  be affixed, captions added, and the entire camera
     ready page will  be reduced  approximately 20?. to 8-1/2 x 11 inch page size.
           All material  published will  be copyrighted by the Houston Geological
     Society.   Requests  for permission to reprint privately any major or minor
     article will  have to be obtained from the society.

10.  Metric System

           Wherever inches, feet, miles,  weights, temperature, etc.  are used,  the
     metric equivalent should be placed in parentheses after the English unit.  A
     handy conversion table is included in the back of Wengerd's article.
           The glossary will  be typed up from the 3x5 inch cards submitted by
     each author.

12.  Authors'  review

           Xerox copies of the camera ready pages will  be sent to each author for
     final  review prior to printing.   Last minute changes should be kept to a
     minimum.

-------
                                                           Lay 20,1979
Bt'"cC:kco
   ?o:-( ::.CL*JSION n: T;:L RECORD o? THE PUBLIC HLARIKG
      OF THa bi,VIRul!i,.El TAL PHOTtCTIOlj ^iJhliC'X ON
               SOLID i.ASTE iv^KAGEIv.KNT
               HGUSTO!!,  HAY 17,1979

The ?oust on Aucubon Society would like to make comment for the
  EIS on the following matters:

 1)  Transcripts of the hearings should be available for  the
 public to read in Fouston as well as in V.ashinpton and perhaps
 other locations fround the U.fc.

 E)  Recognition of municipal waste ss toxic is important because
 of pesticide containers, leftover paint and paint thinners and
 solvents, old batteries both lead and rercury, photographic cher-
 icels, do-it-yourself supplies and other varied t-ypes of waste
 vhjcb sre directly toxic or toxic cfter bacterial ard anaerobic
 reactions.  Mining tailings must be defined es waste in  this
 content.

 3)  Because of the above reasons all sites should be out of flood
 plains, well above ground water and not exposed to hurricane and
 storn surge water.

 4)  (a) Poisoned water in ground water resources will remain
 poisoned for a long tire (tens of yetrs) and aquatic ecosystems
 are also slow to recover once dama ged^-, fn»^*>~>.
     (b) Contaminated water 'can affect not only man but cen also
 affect livestock, crops and other plants, and wildlife.
     (c) Kan and livestock can be effected by low chronic exposure
 to toxins both directly and vie bioeccuraulation in his food chain.

 £ )  For these rood reasons,  all water resources rust be protected
 effectively.  Plastic liners for outrps have limited value for
 containment because of breeches by animals, roots, mechanical
 equipment, rround \v&ter Pressure chrnpes and faults.  Precipita-
 tion runoff water should be monitored for heavy metals and pesti-
 cides regularly end not permitted into the environment until
 shown to meet acceptible standards.  Non-nonitored ground seepage
 of water through the base of dumps should never be permitted.

 6)  i.aste disposal site selection must be more selective and the
 current re-' ulations, or ones giving more protection to water
 resource aquifers and the environment,rifioly applied without
 exception snd greater care taken in site selection.

 7)  Economic factors should NOT be weighed in site selection
 because so much of the, cost of adverse impacts is delayed end so
 externalized that the real costs can never be adecmateiy assessed.

 8)  Cost of the disposal of toxic chemicals should be included as
 part of the initial cost of sale by the manufacturer for his
 eventual disposal.  The community should not bear these  costs es
 a tax burden.

 The Houston Audubon Society encourages the EPA to make and enforce
 much more stringent safeguards for us all.
          )'<^ >"'i,,.^u it* r,«i   Bruce fucCandless, President
 '"cC:kco         (in,   'ul >"'i,,.^u // ,- r,>i   Bruce fucCandless, President
  HOUSTON AUDUBON SOCIETY  . 44CrWiLCHESTER  .(713)932-^392  . HOUSTON, TX. 77079

-------
                        Attendees—Public Hearing
                  on Proposed Landfill Disposal Guidelines
                            Houston, Texas
                             May 17, 1979
Oscar J. Ackelsberg
Asst. Vice-Pres.
W.R. Grace & Co.
1111! Ave. of the Americas
New York, N.Y.  10036

Kismore T. Ajmera
Sr. Project Engineer
Solid Waste Facilities Eval.
Texas Dept. of Health
1100 W. 4gth Street
Austin, Texas  78756
Clark Allen, Ph.D.
Project Manager
South Central Environmental Center
NUS Corporation
900 Gemini Avenue
Houston, Texas  77058

Mabry Andrews
Superintendent-Street & Sanitation
City of Marshall
P.O. Box 698
Marshall, Texas  75670

James Anderson
Manager, Environmental Affairs
Olin Chemicals Group
P.O. Box 2896
Lake Charles, LA  70602

K.H. Applewhite, Jr.
Environmental Engineer
Group Supervisor
Bechtel Power Corporation
P.O. Box 2166
Houston, Tex.  77001

Robert Arnold
Factory Superintendent
Cook Paint & Varnish Co.
2510 Summer
Houston, Texas  77007
John Austin
Counsel
American Mining Congress
1200 18th St., N.W.
Washington, D.C.  20036

Ms. Barbara Bain
13^39 Spreading Oak Dr.
Cypress, Texas  77129

Richard Barnett
Gulf Coast District
Senior Geologist
J.M. Huber Corporation
Oil & Gas Division
2000 W. Loop South
Houston, Texas  77027

Scott Barra
Staff Asst.
Lubrizol Corp
P.O. Box 158
Deer Park, Texas  77536

Walydn J. Benbenek
Staff Engineer, Environmental Control
Louisiana-Pacific Corporation
P.O. Box 2170
Conroe, Texas  77301

D.R. Betterton, Manager
Environmental Protection Dept.
Houston Lighting & Power Co.
P.O. Box 1700
Houston, Texas  77001

W. Bill Booth
for James Boyd
Manager, Environmental Affairs
The Bunker Hill Co.
P.O. Box 29
Kellogg, ID  83837

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Mr. S. Z. Chamberlain Sr.
Monsanto Co.
P.O. Box 711
Alvin, Texas   77511
Paul Chaney
Toxic/Hazardous Environmental
Programs, Mobil Cl-emical Co.
One Greenway Plaza, Suite 1100
Houston, Texas  770^6

Leroy Chevalier
President
Northeast Organization for Progress
9555 Crofton Place
Houston, Texas  77016

Albert Connelly
Tech Rep.
Chemical Waste Mgt., Inc.
123 N. PT. Suite 130
Houston, Texas.

Bob Craton
Kerry Rock
Sales Manager
Davy Powergas, Inc.
6l6l Savoy Drive
Houston, Texas  77036

Tom Dabney
Resource Engineering Inc.
P.O. Box 22189
Houston, Texas  77027

John D'Antoni, D.E.
Manager, Water & Wastewater Engineering
NUS Corporation
11511 Katy Freeway, Suite 500
Houston, Texas  77079

Michael Derrig
Mgr. Technical Services
Petrochemicals Division
Gulf Oil Chemicals Co.
P.O. Box 3766
Houston, Texas 770C1
Don Derby
Environmental Manager
Reichhold Chemicals, Inc.
P.O. Box 9608
Houston, Texas  77015

Mike Derdeyn
Browning Ferris Industries
Director, Special Projects
P.O. Box 3151
Houston, Texas  77003

Denise Deschenes
Junior Engineer
Texas Eastern Transmission Corp.
P.O. Box 2521
Houston, Texas  77001

R.H. Dreith
Staff Engineer
Environmental Affairs
Shell Oil Co.
One Shell Plaza
P.O. Box 4320
Houston, Texas  77210

Robert Dyer
Asst. Gen. Manager
GCWDA, 910 Bay Area
Houston, Texas  77058

George Edema, Sr.
Director of Marketing
Illinois Region
Browning Ferris Industries
1827 Walden Office Sq.-Suite 107
Schaumburg, Illinois  60195

Gayle Edwards
Coordinator, Environmental Control
Jefferson Chemical Co.
Texaco, 4800 Fournace PI.
Ballaire, Tex  77^01

-------
R.B. Ellwood
Parnter, Dames & Moore
2020 North Loup West
Houston, Tex  77079

Paith Fielder, Ph. D.
Research Scientist
Hazardous Materials Section
Rice University
P.O. Box 1892
Houston, Texas  77001

William Ward Filgo
Environmental Engineer
Tennessee Valley Authority
415 Power Building
Chattanooga, Tenn  37^01

Lloyd Falnagan, Associate
Dannenbaum Engineering Corp.
Consulting Engineers
43113 Post Oak Place Drive
Houston, Texas  77027

James Frank
Environmental Consultant
Dupont
P.O. Box 2626
Victoria, Texas  77901

Ben Franklin
Environmental Affairs Analyst
A. Coors
12 & Ford Street
Golden, Colo  80401

Don Gates
Environmental Engineering
Corporate Facilities
Texas Instruments, Inc.
P.O.Box 225012, MS 483
Dallas, Texas  75265
Sam Gavande, Ph.D.
Soil Physicist & Agricultural
Engineer Natural Resources
Analysis Department
Radian Corp.
8500 Shoal Creek
Austin, Texas  78758

Robert Gonzales
Sanitation Supt.
City of Lubbock
P.O. Box 2000
Lubbock, Tex  79412

James Greco
Director
Government and Industry
Affairs, Fannin Bank Building
Houston, Texas  77030

Gary Groce
Officer
The Groce Co., Inc.
P 0. Box 31605
Houston, Texas 77034

Clifford Hall
Project Engineer
Texas Dept.  of Health-Regionll
1110 Avenue G
Rosenberg, Texas  77471

Fred Hamilton
Engineer
Texaco Inc.
4800 Fournace Place
Ballaire, Texas  77401

J.W. Harris
Corporate Environmental Consultant
Environmental & Safety Services
International Minerals & Chemical Corp.
IMC General Office,
501 East Lange Street
Mundelein, Illinois  60060

-------
Henry Hefty, P.E.
Resource Conversion Systems, I
9039 Katy Freeway, Suite 300
Houston, Texas  77024

Duane C. Helmberger
USAF, Civ. Eng.
1200 Bain Tower Suite 435
Dallas, Texas  75202

Edgar Henry
Sales Manager
Rollins Environmental Services
P.O. Box 609
Deer Park, Texas  77536

Dr. Richard Herbst
Enviromental Coordinator
Exxon Minerals Co. USA.
P.O. Box 2180
Houston, Texas  77001

Michael Holcomb
P.O. Box 685
LaPorte, Texas  77571

Trudy Holmes
Assoc. Ind. Specialist
Brown & Roots, Inc.
P.O. Box 3
Houston, Tx  77001

William Button
Air, Water and Waste
Program Manager
Environmental Services
Diamond Shamrock
Gulf Coast Area
1149 Ellsworth
Pasadena, Texas  77501
Lee W. Jennings
Executive Director
Governor's Office of Science
5790 Florida Blvd., Suite 201
Baton Rouge, La  70806

Ben Johnson, D.V.M.
American Animal Hospital Association
Area Director, Region IV
^917 South Willow Street
Houston, Texas  77035

Clarence E. Johnson
Texas Dept, Water Resources
2318 Center Street
Deer Parl, Texas  77536

Donald Johnson
Director, Department of Environmental
Sciences, Southwest Research Institute
3600 Yoakum Boulevard
Houston, Texas  77006

Benjamin Jones,III
Staff Scientis/Group Leader
Radian Corporation
8500 Shoal Creek
Austin, Texas  78766

J.W. Kachtick
Asst. Mgr., Environ. Engineer
P.O. Box 849
Pasadena, Texas   77501
W. Dennis Isaacs
Sulf Station Utilities Co.
Environmental Analyst
P.O. Box 2951
Beaumont, Texas  77704

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Tom Kearns
Field Representative
Texas Dept.  of Water Resources
2318 Center Street
DeerPark, Texas  77536

S. Norman Kesten
Asst. to the Vice Pres.
ASARCO
120 Broadway
New York, N.Y.  10005

Joe King
President
Liberty Waste Disposal
P.O. Box 3370
Baytown, Texas  77520

K.L. Kirksey
Supt. Quality Control
Stauffer Chemical
8615 Manchester
Houston, Texas  77012

Frank Knickerbocker, P.E.
Espey, Huston & Associates, Inc.
Engineering and Environmental Consultant
7616 L.B.J.  Freeway
Suite 704
Dallas, Texas  75251

Robert Kratsas
Ecologist
Standard Oil Company(Indiana)
200 East Randolph Dr.
Chicago, II  60601

Bonner LaFlour
Environmental Project Engineer
Firestone Synthetic Rubber
P.O. Box 1361
Lake Charles, La  70601
L.A. Lakie
Air & Water Conservation
Process Division
Port Arthur Plant
Texaco, Inc.
P.O. Box 712
Port Arthur, Tx 77610
Lee Lasiter
Pollution Control Department
107 North Hunger
P.O. Box 6031
Pasadena, Texas  77506

Bill Lewis
Chmn., Nat. Resources & Energy Comm.
House of Reps.
203 House Wing-Capitol
Phoenix, Arz  85007

Ron Lieber
Advisor-Environmental Affairs
Gulf Oil Co. US
P.O. Box 2001
Houston, Tex  77001

Michael Lowe
Law offices: Wald, Harkrader & Ross
1300 Nineteenth St., N.W.
Washington, D.C.  22036
Angus MacPhee
President
Disposal Ind. Inc.
104 S. River Rd.
Nerberg, Or  98132

R.W. Maeser, Jr.
Gen. Supt. Adra
Ethyl Corp
P.O. Box 472
Pasadena, Texas  77501

Larry Malone, Traffice Manager
Malone Company
P.O. Box 709
Texas City, Texas  77590

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T.J. Manthey
Dir. Public Affairs
Pickands Mather & Co.
1100 Superior Avenue
Cleveland, Oh  41)111

David Mar-rack, M.D.
Physician
120 Mulberry Lane
Bellaire, Texas  77401

Robert Marshall
Director
AICHE
P.O. Box 472
Pasadena, Texas  77501

W.R. Martin
Environmental Coordinator
Temple-Eastex, Inc.
P.O. Box 816
Silsbee, Texas  77656

John Mayfield
Operations Env. Cont. Supt.
Aluminum Company of America
Point  Comfort,    Texas  77978

B. Jack McDaniel, P.E.
Director
City of Houston
Department of Solid Waste Management
Rm. 1012, City Hall
P.O. Box 1562
Houston, Tex  77001

Herbert McKee, Ph.D.
Assistant Health Director
for Pollution Control
City of Houston
Houston, Texas  77030
Mrs. Doris McWilliams
Police Juror, Caddo
134 Norwood
Parish, La
Shreveport, La  71105

Hector Mendieta, P.E.
Chief, Facilities Evaluation Branch
Division of Solid Waste Mgt.
Texas Dept. of Health
1100 W. 4gth Street
Austin, Texas  78756

M.L. Merrill
Environmental Protection Coordinator
Texaco, Inc.
P.O. Box 430
Bellaire, Texas  77401

Arthur Meyer
Denka Chemical Corporation
Supt. of Env. Control
8701 Park Place Blvd.
Houston, Tex  77017

P.P. Miller
Chemical Engineer
Manufacturing Process Division
4120 Southwest Freeway
P.O. Box 22085
Houston, Tex  77027

George Mills, Jr.
Senior Environmental Engineer
Kerr-McGee Corporation
Kerr-McGee Center
Oklahoma City, OK  73125

Virginia Moore
Continental Oil Co.
P.O. Box 2197
Houston, Tex  77001

John Nesser
Environmental Control Engineer
Petro Tex Chemcial Corporation
8600 Park Place Blvd.
Houston, TX  77017

-------
Gary Oradat
Civil Engineer
Dallas Water Utilities Dept.
City Hall 4A North
Dallas, Texas  75277

Kathleen Orr
Houston Audubon Society
4617 Minosa
Ballaire, Texas  77101

M.P. Ownes
Manager, Project Services
Southwest Regional Engineer
Olin Chemicals
P.O. Box 2896
Lake Charles, LA  70601

Bob Oxendine
City Engineer
City of Alcoa
Minicipal Building, Hall Rd
Alcoa, Texas  37701

Mr. A.B. Parker
Senior Conservation Engineer
ARCO Oil and Gas Company
P.O. Box 2819
Dallas, Texas  75221

James Parker, MD
2830 Cedar Dr.
La Warfare, Texas  77568

Robert Parnell
Staff Buyer
Shell Oil Co.
Two Shell Plaza
Box 2462
Houston, Texas  77001

Frances Jo Pelley
Economic Development Planner
Texoma Regional Planning Commission
10000 Grayson Drive
Denison, Texas  75020

Robert Penland
Environmental Technician
ARCO Chemical Co.
P.O. Box 777
Channelview, Texas  77530
Paul Philbin
Attroney at Law
21111 Fountain View Drive
Suite 225
Houston, Texas  77057

Jack Piskura
Vice President
EMPAK, Inc.
2000 W. Loops, Suite 1800
Houston, Texas  77027

F. Paul Pizzi
Environmental Management Services
The Pace Company
Consultants & Engineers, Inc.
5251 Westheimer
P.O. Box 53173
Houston, Texas  77052

Kenneth S. Pope
Bechtel Power Corporation
Engineers-Constructors
520 South Post Oak Rd.
P.O.Box 2166
Houston, Tex  77001

John Robinson
Hgr. Environmental Services
Kirby Forest Ind.
P.O. Box 517
Silsbee, Texas  77656

Robert Robinson
Dlr. Regulatory Affairs
Continental Oil Co.
P.O. Box 2197
Houston, Texas  77450

Charles Reed
Chemical Engineer
Amoco Chemicals Corp.
P.O. Boxl488
Alvin, Texas  77511

W.E. Rouse
Right of Way & Solid Waste Admin.
Jefferson County, Alabama
A-202 Court House
Birmingham, Alabama  35203

Peter Russian
Associate
Danninbaun Eng. Corporation Consult.
4543 S. Post Oak Place Dr.
Houston, Tex  77027

-------
Marvin Smith
Manager, Technical Services
Subsurface, Inc.
5555 West Loop South
Suite 616
Bellaire, Texas  77401

Dr. Geoffrey Stanford
Director
Greenhills Foundation
R 1, Box 861
Cedar Hill, Texas  75104

David Stang
Special Project Engineer
Rollins Environmental Services, Inc.
P.O. Box 609
Deer Park, Texas  77536

Mark Staton
Technical Sales Rep.
Rollins Environmental Services
P.O. Box 609
Deer Park, Texas  77536

Vicky Suazo
Comm. Sup.
Dow Chemical
P.O. Box BB
Preeport, Tx  77541

Imre Szekelyhidi, Jr.
Solid Waste Manager
Travis County
P.O. Box 1748
Austin, Texas  78703

Steveh Taub
Stablex Corp
Suite 110, Radnor Corp. Center
Radnor, Pa  19087

Richard Rilon Thompson
Director
OK State Department of Health
Solid Waste Division
N.E. 10th St. & Stonewall
P.O. Box 53551
Oklahoma City, OK  73152

Beckie True
Browning Ferris Industries
Administrative Assistant
Fannin Bank Building
Houston, Texas  77030
Bruce Tuma
Environmental Engineer
P.O. Box 9637
Houston, Texas  77015

Helen Vass
2430 Cedar Dr.
La Marque, Texas  77568

Kenneth Wyatt
Texas Air Control Board
5555 West Loop, Suite 300
Bellaire, Texas  77401

Warren Waggett
Capt. U.S.C.G.(Ret.)
Research Engineer
Rice University
P.O. Box 1892
Houston, Texas  77001

Charles Watts
Program Manager
Dept. of Health
2110 Crestwood
Richmond, Texas  77469

Linda Wells
Attorney
Coastal States Gas Corporation
Nine Greeneay Plaza, Ste.  890
Houston, Tex  77046

J. Westney
Mgr. Environmental Committee
Houston Chamber of Commerce
25th Fl, 1100 Milan Street
Houston, Texas  77002

Glenna Whitley
Reporter
Brazosport Facts
Clute, Texas

C.H. Van Metre
Enviromental  Services Specialist
Dow  Chemical/Oyster Creek  Div.
P.O. Box BB
Freeport, Texas  77541

Robert Wilson
Attorney, McGinnis Lockridge  and  Kilgore
900  Congress  Ave. Fifth  Floor
Austin, Texas  78701

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Jenny Yang
Env. Health  Spec.
Texas Air Control  Board
5555 W. Loop,  Suite 300
Bellaire, Texas
Robert Zoch,  Jr.  P.E.
Resource Engineering,  Inc.
3^11 Marquart,  Suite 204
P.O. Box 22189
Houston, Texas   77027
                                        AU.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE- 1979 O— 281-147/39
                                                                 Order No.  774

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