PROCEEDINGS
     Volume 2
                                            Second Sessic
                                       Minneapolis, Minnesoi
                                February 28, March 1 & 2O, 196
Conference
     In the Matter off Pollution of the
     Interstate and Intrastate Waters
     off the Upper  Mississippi River
     and its Tributaries-Minnesota
     and Wisconsin
             U. S. Department of the Interior
      Federal Water Pollution Control Administration

-------
                  CONTENTS

STATEMENT OP;                                 PAQE

Lyle H. Smith, Conferee and Executive
      Engineer, Minnesota Water Pollution
      Control Commission (Continued)          315

Prank E. Hail, Federal Water Pollution
      Control Administration, United States
      Department of the Interior, Great
      Lakes Region, Chicago, Illinois         387

City of Minneapolis, read by Gary Ginner,
      Engineer, Minnesota Department of
      Health                                  393

Arthur V. Dienhart, Manager of Engineering,
      Northern States Power Company,
      Minneapolis, Minnesota                  398

Kerwin L. Mick, Chief Engineer and Super-
      intendent, Minneapolis-St. Paul
      Sanitary District, Minneapolis,
      Minnesota                               405

John P. Badalich, City Engineer, City of
      South St. Paul, Minnesota               446

Cenex, Inc., read by G. Ginner                463

Otto Bonestroo, Consulting Engineer,
      Village of Cottage Gove, Minnesota      465

Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing Company,
      Chemolite Plant, Washington,
      Minnesota, read by G. Ginner            469

Arnold Steffes, City Engineer, Hastings,
      Minnesota                               475

Rahr Malting Company, Minneapolis,
      Minnesota, read by Donald J. Thimsen,
      Minnesota Department of Health          485

Robert P. Hubbard, Assistant General
      Superintendent, Cargill Corporation,
      Minneapolis, Minnesota                  489

-------
                                                      B

                    CONTENTS

                     (CONTINUED)

STATEMENT OP;                                   PAGE

John J. Klein, Town Board of Supervisors,
      Eagan Township, Dakota County, Minnesota  491

John M. Mason, North Suburban Sanitary
      District                                  503

John G. Pidgeon, City Attorney, Bloomlngton,
      Minnesota                                 520

City of Hopkins, Minnesota, read by D. J.
      Thlmsen                                   533

Robert F. Peterson, Commissioner of Public
      Works, St. Paul, Minnesota, read by
      G. Ginner                                 535

Board of Water Commissioners, City of St.
      Paul, read by D. J. Thimsen

Natural History Society, read by
      G. Ginner

Mrs. William Whiting, President of the
      League of Women Voters of Minnesota       545

John Pegors, Vice President, Clear Air,
      Clear Water - Unlimited                   615

Minnesota Conservation Federation, read
      by D. J. Thirasen                          6l8

Beaverbrook Sportsmen, Inc., read by
      D. J. Thimsen                             625

Thomas C. Savage, Vice President, Fort
      Snelling State Park Association           629

First Unitarian Society of Minneapolis,
      read by G. Ginner                         631

Community Wild Life Club, Inc., St. Cloud,
      Minnesota, read by G. Ginner              633

-------
                     CONTENTS

                       (CONTINUED)

STATEMENT OP:                                   PAGE;

Sierra Club, Great Lakes Chapter, North
      Star (Minnesota) Section, read by
      D. J. Thlmsen                             634

Northwest Airlines Sportsmen Association,
      read by D. J. Thimsen                     638

Arthur A. Ebert, President, Minnesota
      Chapter, American Society of Sanitary
      Engineering                               641

Robbinsdale Sportsmens Club, Inc., read by
      G. Ginner                                 649

Corps of Engineers, St. Paul, Minnesota,
      read by William T. Sayers, Deputy
      Project Director, Federal Water
      Pollution Control Administration,
      Twin Cities Project, Minneapolis,
      Minnesota                                 651

Robert E. Scheible, Chief of Sanitary and
      Electrical Engineering, Department of
      the Army, Headquarters, Fifth United
      States Army                               655

-------
            Second Session of the Conference in the Matter



of Pollution of the Interstate and Intrastate Waters of the



Upper Mississippi River and Its Tributaries in the States



of Wisconsin and Minnesota, convened at 9:00 a.m., on



Wednesday, March 1, 1967, at the Leamington Hotel, Minneapolis,



Minnesota.
            PRESIDING:
                 Mr. Murray Stein, Assistant Commissioner



                 for Enforcement, Federal Water Pollution



                 Control Administration, Department of the



                 Interior.

-------
                                                     315
                      L. H. Smith
            MR. STEIN:  May we reconvene?

            I would like to welcome all you people back.

Minnesota will continue.

            I hope you all enjoyed yesterday.  I do think,

though it nay not have been apparent, that we are getting

closer and closer together all the time with the conferees.

            This is just the American process, I guess, of

arriving at conclusions.  Sometimes it gets abrasive, but that

is the way we have always been, and if people didn't have firm

positions and didn't put them forward in that way, I don't

think we would make much progress.

            With that, we will call on Minnesota again to

continue its presentation.

            Mr. Smith?




            CONTINUED STATEMENT OP LYLE H. SMITH,

            CONFEREE AND EXECUTIVE ENGINEER, MINNESOTA

            WATER POLLUTION CONTROL COMMISSION




            MR. SMITH:  Mr. Chairman, Conferees and Ladies

and Gentlemen:

-------
                                                    316
                       L. H. Smith
                   go into a review of the Federal recommenda-
tions, and these comments will follow the order of the recom-
mendations, if you care to refer to the summary, commencing
at the top of Page 27.
            Under the General Recommendations,  Protection
of Existing Water Quality:
            The Commission agrees that there should be no
decrease in water quality.  However, we would like to add,
"which could be detrimental to beneficial uses."  Further
comments will be made later in my statement.
            We feel that there was some discussion of this
yesterday and we feel that this should be clarified.
            Under the paragraph of "Enhancement of Water
Quality," the Commission agrees that where water quality has
been unreasonably degraded by pollution, such water quality
should be enhanced to avoid interference with beneficial
uses.  The uses given are essentially the same  as specified
in some of the classifications already adopted  by the Commis-
sion, although there is some change in the area.
            In regard to the protection of water quality in
areas which are essentially in their natural condition, and
using as an example the dissolved oxygen levels set forth
in the table on Page 26 of the Summary, we believe that it
would be unreasonable to flatly prohibit any decrease of

-------
                                                       317
                       L. H. Smith
quality from present levels.  In the final analysis, this
constitutes a zoning provision for all of the waters presently
of good quality and could prohibit any new municipal or
industrial effluents unless treated, so as to be virtually
equal to existing river water quality.  We believe it would
be more desirable to use only a specific figure for the
dissolved oxygen and other characteristics which should be
maintained at non-pollutlonal levels, or to change the phrase
to read, "no unreasonable deterioration."  The Commission
does not object to the use of standards which include a pro-
hibition on discharges where warranted by circumstances, but
we do not agree that it is appropriate to apply such standards
arbitrarily and indiscriminately to a stream resource,,,such as
dissolved oxygen, where it apparently has no rational basis
and will only prevent future development of the area without
regard to needed economic growth of the State.
            We feel some clarification also is necessary con-
cerning the river flows upon which the oxygen levels are
based since the report recommends changing both from the
levels specified in the standards already adopted by the
Commission for certain reaches of these rivers.  From our
evaluation, it appears that the Federal standards will not
enhance the quality of the reaches now affected by pollution,
but will in fact permit more degradation than is now allowed

-------
                                                     318
                       L. H. Smith
by the existing State standards.  We do not have the staff
or access to the use of computers to confirm this in detail,
taking into account all possible variables, but it seems
quite certain that, for example, under the proposed Federal
dissolved oxygen recommendations of 3 mg/1 to be maintained in
the river below the Twin Cities at the 7-consecutive-day,
once-in-10-year low flow, more pounds of BOD could be dis-
charged to the river than under the existing State standard,
which requires 1 mg/1 to be maintained at the much lower
minimum daily flow occurring once in 20 years.  We believe
the relaxation of the flow interval will more than offset the
apparently more stringent dissolved oxygen concentration.  We
would appreciate having this matter resolved by the technical
staff of the Federal Water Pollution Control Administration
for the enlightenment of the conferees.  If this cannot be
done today, we request that the matter of the dissolved
oxygen standards be left open until it can be resolved to
the satisfaction of those concerned.
            The coliform standards recommended in the Federal
report are endorsed in full.  They are virtually identical
with the standards the Commission has proposed for inclusion
in its Statewide water quality criteria.
            The next paragraph is under "Treatment of Munici-
pal Wastes.  This waa discussed In some detail yesterday.

-------
                                                      319
                       L. H. Smith
            This recommendation requires that all munici-
palities and other Institutions which discharge sewage to
these waters provide at least secondary biological treatment
and continuous disinfection of the effluent.  As a matter of
record, this has been the policy of the Commission for these
waters for many years and with very few exceptions such
treatment works have already been provided.  We concur fully
with this recommendation, except for the manner In which
secondary treatment Is defined.  We believe the recommendation
should not specify the percentage of treatment to be provided
for BOD and suspended solids reduction, but should Instead
specify allowable effluent concentrations.
            This matter is part of the very foundation of
Minnesota's water pollution control program, and this Federal
recommendation Is a prime example of the lack of consideration
given to working with and supporting the policies of the State
agencies in these matters.
            We must take very strong exception to this part
of the recommendation, and the related one regarding treatment
of industrial wastes where the principle of equal percentage
of treatment also is applied rather than the equal effluent
principle.  The Federal Water Pollution Control Administra-
tion has been fully aware of the position of the Commission
on this matter for some time, because of the similar contro-

-------
                                                      320
                       L. H. Smith
versy which arose at the Red River of the North conference
in September 1965.
            The definition set forth in this general recom-
mendation has no bearing directly on protection of water uses
or quality, but instead it would establish a policy regarding
the allocation of BOD discharges between various sources.  As
such, it should have no place in these recommendations, since
it is not within the province of the Federal agency to allo-
cate the ass foliation capacity of these streams among the
various pollutlonal sources.  Promulgation of this policy was
also suggested previously by the Administration on the Red
River of the North, although in a different guise, but after
much argument the matter was finally resolved in the Commis-
sion's favor.  Resource allocations of this type are a State
responsibility and this recommendation is directly contrary
to the established policy of the Commission, which is to re-
quire all pollutlonal sources in a designated reach of river
to produce effluents of equal concentration.  The policy is
of long standing and is based on an opinion of the Attorney
General which was requested by the State Board of Health
shortly after the Minneapolis-St. Paul Sanitary District was
originally established in the 1930«s by the State Legislature.
This very point of equal effluents versus percentage removal
was then at issue.  Since being resolved in favor of equal

-------
                                                     321



                       L. H. Smith



effluents, this approach has always been Incorporated in



the programs and policies of the State pollution control



agency, first by the State Board of Health and later by the



Water Pollution Control Commission.



            It is the contention of the Co»nission that such



a specific policy statement should be deleted and replaced



with a general statement to the effect that the allocation



of the assimilative capacity of the streams shall be done by



the States within the context of their established laws and



policies, and/or changed to a definition of secondary treat-



ment based only on effluent concentration.  On the basis of



its own experience, covering more than twenty years in dealing



with pollution problems in Minnesota, the Commission believes



the equal effluent principle to be Just and simple of



application, and would not support any change In this policy.



            We reiterate that we have no disagreement with



the stated allowable pounds of BOD which may be discharged to



the river from the aggregate of all of the sources, which is



the essential consideration as far as effect on water quality



is concerned.  Our disagreement is with the proposed alloca-



tion.  The latter lies solely within the Jurisdiction and



responsibility of the Commission and should, therefore, be



handled in accord with its policies.



            The next paragraph deals with Reports on Municipal



Treatment plants.

-------
                                                       322



                       L. H. Smith



            We are in accord with this recommendation.   A



similar requirement is normally incorporated as a part  of



standards adopted by the Commission.



            MR. STEIN:  Mr. Smith, this is a technical  opera-



tion.



            For the purpose of the record, I think it may be



clearer for people who read this, that if we are going  to



have comment, to have some short comment here.



            I think with reference to your first point  on



the dissolved oxygen, this is the kind of technical operation



that we may have to turn over to a technical group to work



out.



            I do not think there is any difference in what



we want to achieve here, and I think the challenge is to get



a formula that we can all agree With.



            I think your points are well taken.  I don't think



the Federal Government would want to take any view on this



without also getting the advice of the technical people from



Wisconsin, and, of course, we will, as we may have to here,



get some very specialized experts to work with you on this



information and get these worked out.



            I Just want to flag that at this point in the



record, to aay that that point is well taken and we can look



at that.

-------
                                                      323
                       L. H. Smith
            With reference to the next point you make on
the allocations within Minnesota, I would agree that this is
a State natter.  However, the problem that we are faced
with here in the enforcement stage, or in the standard opera-
tion, la that there has to be a pretty full disclosure of what
the State is going to do for the allocation.
            This is again a problem we have, where everyone
is providing treatment.  I think Detroit would probably be
the best example to get away from here for the moment.
            When we went out to Detroit, we found the river
pretty badly polluted.  Then we went around to each industry
and city, and they all said they were providing fine treat-
ment.  The question was, who was polluting the stream?  Well,
we had to go through industry by Industry, and, of course, you
get the major automobile companies there, for example, and one
of the big four was doing fine, but the other ones we thought
were pretty bad and they had to be corrected.
            I think we are going to wind up the same way here.
If we are going to protect the stream and we are going to find
out who is not going to do the job, the allocation must be
something, and I think once the State gives you that, this
could be adopted by the Federal Government, because the
Federal Government has the obligation, as I read our law, if
there is a violation after June 30th, to proceed against an

-------
                                                      324



                       L. H. Smith



individual polluter.



            Unless we know what the allocation is, this



would make it not very equitable, and unless the State gives



us this allocation, we are going to be faced with the posi-



tion of having to do this ourselves.



            Now, I think in the Red River of the North we



could work this out, and arrive, just as we arrived here, at



loadings which could go into the river, and the State and



we agree on the loadings.



            Then we cane up with allocations for the Minne-



sota Industries and municipalities.  I don't know whether



they liked it or didn't like it, but they thought it was



their prerogative to establish, and we said fine.  They cane



up with those.  As far as I know, this is satisfactory.



            Again, this is a fundamental issue, but I think



we are going to have to have those rather shortly, Mr. Smith.



            MR. SMITH:  Well, we would be glad to work this



out with you in executive session.



            MR. STEIN:  Right.



            MR. SMITH:  I an sure we can.



            MR. STEIN:  Right.



            MR. SMITH:  May I go on?



            MR. STEIN:  Yes.



            MR. SMITH:  Paragraph 5 on Phosphate Renoval:

-------
                                                      325
                       L. H. Smith
            The Commission agrees that all practicable
design and operation methods should oe used to remove phos-
phorus from the sewage and waste effluents.
            No. 6, Monitoring of Water Quality.
            We are in accord with this recommendation.  The
Commission has had for many years a Statewide Water Quality
Sampling Program and has cooperated in the installation and
operation of several of the Water Pollution Surveillance
System stations in Minnesota.  We shall be pleased to cooperate
within the limits of our resources in expanding our monitoring
program in this area.
            No. lt Bypassing and Spilling of Wastes.
            We are in agreement with this recommendation and
are confident that the current program of the Minneapolis-
St. Paul Sanitary District will substantially reduce this
problem in this area.
            No. 8, Pretreatment of Wastes.
            We are in agreement with this recommendation inso-
far as it is necessary to avoid interference with treatment
works or effluent quality control.
            No. 9, Protection Against Spillage.
            The agreement of the Water Pollution Control
Commission is exemplified by the adoption of Regulation WPC-4
relating to storage of oil and other liquid substances

-------
                                                      326
                       L. H. Smith
capable of polluting waters of the State, which to our
knowledge when adopted was probably one of the first of its
kind in the Nation.  For the conferees' information, a copy
of this regulation is presented as Exhibit 1.
            Paragraph 10, Combination Storm and Sanitary
Sewers.
            The Commission is in accord with this recommenda-
tion and calls attention to the point that it  does not ordi-
narily approve plans for combined sewers or extensions of
combined sewers.  The recommendation for expansion of the
studies by the Minneapolis-St. Paul Sanitary District and
initiation of studies by South St. Paul is welcomed.  Similar
recommendations were made at the time of the public hearings
which were held by the Commission in 1962 prior to adopting
standards for these waters.
            I am sure the cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul
have statements which will indicate what progress they have
made in the separation of sewers.
            Paragraph 11, Treatment of Industrial Wastes.
            The Commission again here takes the same stand
that it had taken —
            MR. STEIN:  Mr. Smith, I want a point of clari-
fication.
            What do you mean you don't ordinarily approve

-------
                                                        327
                       L. H. Smith
plans for combined sewers?   Do you do this in extraordinary
circumstances?
            MR. SMITH:  There may be an exception where, for
a short period of time, a larger sewer may be used for both
purposes, which may later be used for sort of more sanitary —
this is very short.
            MR. STEIN:  This is just temporary?
            MR. SMITH:  That's all.
            MR. STEIN:  All right.  Thank you.
            MR. SMITH:  Paragraph 11, Treatment of Industrial
Wastes.
            The Commission does not agree with the use of
percentage as a definition of treatment.  The same comments
made concerning treatment of municipal wastes apply in general
also to this recommendation.  It is further pointed out that
basin industrial waste treatment on the raw waste means that
the base must be individually determined in each case, and,
further, will encourage industry to raise the raw waste
strength as high as possible in order to permit a high efflu-
ent concentration.
            Consideration should be given to eliminating the
coliform requirements for Industrial wastes which are free
of sanitary sewage, unless the presence of pathogenic
organisms can be demonstrated.

-------
                                                     328



                       L. H. Smith



            I believe there was a discussion yesterday, and



this was to be clarified.



            Paragraph No. 12, Reporting of Industrial Wastes.



            The comments made concerning reports by municipal



waste treatment plants apply to this recommendation also.



Such reporting is already being done by most of the major



plants.



            MR. STEIN:  Again, Mr. Smith, I think in the



Interests of saving time, we need some clarification.



            On the question of chlorination of industrial



effluents, I think the recommendation was clear.  Did you



come to an agreement in the Red River of the North on that



issue?



            MR. SMITH:  I don't recall that we did.



            MR. STEIN:  Are you going to chlorinate the



effluent?



            I think Mr. Oeldreich is here and he has seen



that paper.



            Now, basically, this is a fundamental issue that



is going to have to be considered by both States.  It is



covered in the recommendation here.  I don't want to go into



a long discussion, but I think you have raised this issue and



we have to consider this in the light of the industry



representatives who are here, and we may as well look at this,

-------
                                                      329
                       L. H. Smith
            In the effluent from industrial plants, and we
found these particularly in potato wastes, pulp and paper
wastes and sugar beet wastes, there is a significant amount,
according to our bacteriologists, of pathogenic organisms,
even though sewage is not connected with it.  That indicates
that these waste sources have to be disinfected before they
are discharged into the stream.
            Now, I think if you want to do this, and this is
a technical point, we have Mr. Geldreich, the bacteriologist,
here.
            This is a concept which is relatively new in waste
treatment and hasn't been paid too much attention to before.
The question was, why chlorinate and disinfect an effluent
from a plant processing organic material if it didn't come
into contact with sewage or domestic wastes of some kind?
            Our scientists indicate that there are enough
disease-bearing organisms and they indicate that this should
be the procedure.
            I think the conferees will have to deal with that.
If we need any further clarification before the conference is
finished, or before we are completed today, or whenever you
wish, or if the conferees want to ask Mr. Geldreich questions
on this as to the basis for the conclusions of our technical
staff, we remain ready; but this will be a very key question,

-------
                                                       330
                       L. H. Smith
it seems to me, that has to be resolved.
            Thank you.
            MR. SMITH:  No, 13, Vessel Wastes.
            The Commission agrees that this recommendation
is proper and presents as Exhibits 2, 3 and 4 copies of
Minnesota Statutes, Section 361.29, as amended, and related
criteria for the acceptability of marine sewage treatment
devices, and list of currently accepted devices.
            The Commission has been a leader in this field
for many years, as you are no doubt aware.  Based on our
experience, however, we do not believe it is realistic to
expect a State to exert control over watercraft not licensed
in that State, particularly in the continuing absence of any
Federal guidelines to promote uniformity among the States.
It is recommended that control over foreign shipping, and
Federally registered or documented craft  preferably be
exercised by the responsible Federal agencies rather than the
States.
            No. 14, Garbage and Refuse Dumps.
            The Commission agrees in substance and offers as
Exhibit 5 a staff memorandum on water pollution control
practices relating to dumps, deposits and stockpiles dated
December 16, 1965.  Solid wastes are also normally controlled
by standards adopted by the Commission.  The question is

-------
                                                      331
                       L. H. Smith
raised, however, as to whether there may not be more reason-
able alternatives than removal of the contents of existing
dumps.
            I am not sure whether this refers to dumps right
on the river bank where waterial can very easily be carried
in, or whether they are referring to dumps in the flood plain.
            No. 15* Upstream Bacterial Control.
            The Commission agrees with the recommendation
insofar as it relates to control of bacteria originating from
sewage or other disease-producing effluents.  The Commission's
policy is that tributary waters and sources thereon be con-
trolled as necessary so that there will be no violation of
the standards of classified waters in any respect by reason
of such tributary discharges.
            I would like to refer next to the specific
recommendations.  These are contained, starting on Page 30.

                       Municipal Sources
            Minneapolis-St. Paul Sanitary District to South
St. Paul — Maximum BOD and Suspended Solids Loadings.
            The BOD loading of 68,500 pounds used in this
recommendation is based on river assimilation analysis and
intended to maintain the 3 mg/1 dissolved oxygen specified
earlier.  As discussed previously, we feel that our existing

-------
                                                       332
                       L. H. Smith
design standards of I mg/1 of dissolved oxygen at a lower
base river flow would provide better water quality conditions
at the river flows used by the Administration than these
standards would.
            The derivation of the 85*000 pounds of suspended
Boi-Laa IS UtH;X»»:r, l»uV poSSlbly WAS Calculated OH the SaBC
base as reaoval of BOD by 80 percent secondary treatment,
thus resulting in an effluent concentration of 50 mg/1.  This
seems rather high for a modern secondary sewage plant efflu-
ent.  The Commission has in the past used the figure of 30 mg/1
as being reasonably attainable by a well designed and operated
secondary treatment plant*
            Mo. 2, which is on the top of Page 31, Maximum
Phenolic Loadings.
            It is believed that with the extensive treatment
works already provided or under construction by most of these
sources there will be no serious difficulty in producing the
desired effluent quality, but we do question the justifica-
tion for changing the stream standard for this reach from the
existing 0.1 to 0.01 mg/1.
            Ho. 3, By-passing at Minneapolis-St. Paul Sanitary
District.
            We concur with this recommendation and as stated
previously are hopeful that recent construction will

-------
                                                     333
                       L. H. Smith
substantially reduce this problem.
            MR. POSTON:  Mr. Smith?
            MR. SMITH:  Yes, sir.
            MR. POSTON:  I note that you object to our use
of 50 milligrams per liter, but you say that the Commission
has in the past used a figure of 3© milligrams as being
reasonably attainable by a well designed and operated
secondary plant.
            MR. SMITH:  This is true.
            MR. POSTON:  Bhder your item earlier in the
report, you called attention to the fact that Hastings and —
was it Lake City?
            MR. SMITH:  That's right.
            MR. POSTON:  — have new plants, which will pro-
duce an effluent with 50.  These are not yet under completion?
            MR. SMITH:  These are not completed.  This is
right.  These were gotten before the classification and the
standards.   These are not in the classified section of the
river, and there may have to be steps taken to improve this.
            MR. POSTON:  You may what?
            MR. SMITH:  There may have to be steps taken to
improve this.
            MR. POSTON:  All right.  Thank you.
            MR. SMITH:  The next paragraph is relative to the

-------
                                                     334
                       L. H. Smith
Hastings Plant.
            Here again, the efficiency of the plant as deter-
mined by the Project staff was certainly well below design
levels and possibly was not representative of usual condi-
tions.  The reasons for the poor showing, beyond simple
volumetric overloading, are not given, but we believe the
efficiency can probably be Increased in the interim before
the planned secondary treatment works are completed.  In view
of the existing volumetric overloading, however, it is doubt-
ful that the indicated 30 percent efficiency can be attained.
            There are still some industrial wastes going into
this primary treatment plant, and we feel whether we can
actually reach the 30 percent may be a question.
            Under Industrial Sources-, Water Treatment Plants
of the City of Minneapolis:
            We would like to know the basis for the 50 rag/l
concentration of suspended solids, as mentioned previously.
We are not aware of any other comparable sources of effluent
on this reach, but if It is based on comparison with the
capability of a modern secondary sewage treatment plant, it
might more properly be 30 mg/1, rather than 50.
            Under Swift and Company, Armour and Company, and
South St. Paul Union Stockyards:
            We do not object to this recommendation per se,

-------
                                                         335
                     L. H. Smith
but would like to point out that several of these outfalls
are submerged and may be very difficult to monitor and would
also call attention again to our previous comments concerning
conforms in Industrial effluents.
           MR. STEIN:  You certainly don't mean that when
you are talking about conforms.  I can understand this from
sugar beets, that there might be a question, or from pulp and
paper mills, from potato plants.  This is new and this is what
Mr. Geldreich referred to where he thought we should disinfect
this, but I never heard anyone ever come up with the notion
that we treat wastes from packing house plants of warm-
blooded animals different than the manner in which we treat
wastes from humans.
           MR. SMITH:  This is not implied, but there are
many sewers and some of these sewers may not contain patho-
genic organisms.
           MR. STEIN:  That may be, but the operation is
with Swift and Company, Armour and Company, and South St. Paul
Union Stockyards.
           MR. SMITH:  This is right, and wherever pathogenic
organisms are demonstrated there will be no question, but we
feel there are some of these where they may not be.
           MR. STEIN:  All right.
           MR. SMITH:  Northwest Cooperative Mills  (now

-------
                                                      336
                       L. H. Smith
Cenex Inc.).
            The comments made before regarding suspended
solids apply here also.
            Foot Tanning Company.
            This plant does not discharge to the Mississippi
River nor affect the Mississippi River, and should therefore
not be included.  However, further treatment is necessary
and studies to that end are progressing.  It is not clear to
ua what is meant by "in conformity with recommendations in
this report."  A primary clarifier to replace the existing
settling ponds has been recommended, but to our knowledge
plans have not been prepared, presumably because questions
concerning further treatment have not yet been resolved.
            Mayor Jelatis is here and could enlighten us on
this, if you would care for him to do so.
            Specific Recommendations for the Minnesota River.
            Green GUant Company.
            The Commission is in agreement, but would recom-
mend that all sanitary sewage be diverted into the municipal
system for treatment.
            American Crystal Sugar Company and Rahr Malting
Company.
            The BOD loadings were based on river assimilation
studies and we have no disagreement with the permissible

-------
                                                    337
                     L. H. Smith
pounds of BOD.  The policy of the Commission is to permit
no discharge under ice cover of waste exceeding the common
level for all sources in this reach.  The sugar company has
already constructed a closed system for process wastes and
segregated the cooling water.  When operating as designed,
this system should drastically reduce the BOD discharge.
These facilities were in operation this winter, but some im-
provements may yet be necessary to attain full efficiency.
           MR. STEIN:  At this point, I would like to take
this opportunity to say that if this is done the American
Crystal Sugar Company will be showing the way, and this has
been one of the great Improvements we have had through the
country in waste treatment methods dealing with sugar beet
wastes.
           To give you a notion, it wasn't ten years ago
before we were striving to g«-t down to 12 pounds of BOD per
ton of beets, and then we finally got it down to 8.  Then, when
we found t-hat that was too high, we tried to get these mills
to go down to 2.  They said that was impossible.
           Then they recently have come up with this closed
circuit operation, and we feel that the loading may get down
to a half a pound per ton of beets.
           I think the American Crystal Sugar Company should
be commended for going ahead with this and showing the way as

-------
                                                     338


                       L. H. Smith


one of the plants that is going to do this Job.   We hope that


this process will be incorporated in almost all  the sugar


beet plants in the country, and it is really gratifying to


see that the company in this area has been one of the first


to install that in this country.


            MR. SMITH:  Northern States Power Company, Black-


dog Plant.


            The derivation of the 90°P limit at  1,500 cfs


river flow is not known, but it appears to us that the 93°P


limit at the much lower flow specified in our standards would


provide ample and probably better control of heat releases.

                                                            Q
The question is, does the recommendation mean that 13.5 X 10


BTU/day is permissible for discharge to the river at all flows


less than 1,5OO cfs?  We would also appreciate receiving the


comments of the Administration staff as to what  in their


opinion would constitute a reasonable mixing zone for purposes


of monitoring the 90°p limit recommended for the river.


            These are all of the comments that we have for


this particular section.


            We would like to comment on the implementation


and enforcement of the final conference recommendations as


they are shaped.


            Following is a brief statement of what this study


appears to mean to us and how we propose to proceed to carry

-------
                                                       339
                       L. H. Smith
out the recommendations.
            On all those natters upon which there is sub-
stantial agreement, the Commission will proceed immediately
within its available resources and authority,  without awaiting
the formal recommendations.  For example, some enlargement
of our stream monitoring program can probably be undertaken
without delay, although for the long term more money and staff
will have to be provided by the Legislature.  Also, a con-
certed effort will be made to review the situation with each
of the pollutional sources involved and attempt to persuade
them to comply promptly with the stated objectives on a
voluntary basis and with a minimum of legal action.
            As is well known, some of the waters have already
been classified and have had standards established, and permits
have been issued for many of the sources.  In some of these
cases voluntary action may be forthcoming; if not, legal action
will be authorized where applicable for violation and/or per-
mit requirements.  Stipulations will be sought from the
various sources wherever these can serve the purpose of
obtaining compliance and avoiding further legal proceedings.
            In order to comply with Minnesota laws, however,
and to assure a sound basis for possible revocation of per-
mits and/or Issuance of orders upon any recalcitrant sources,
it will be necessary for us to amend our existing classified-

-------
                                                       340
                       L. H. Smith
tions and standards for these waters, and also adopt classi-
fications and standards for the presently unclassified waters.
This we will promptly proceed to do, based on the Project
studies, the Commission's files and conference recommendations.
We strongly urge, therefore, that the conference summary and
recommendations be drafted, accepted by the conferees, and
Issued by the Secretary as soon as possible.
            The necessity for modifying the existing standards
arises because conference recommendations, if similar to the
Administration report recommendations, will Include some
items not now included in our standards, and involve some
changes in other items and different geographic limits for
some classifications.
            The conference study area includes substantial
reaches of waters not previously classified by the Commission.
We propose to use the data presented by the Administration
to supplement the Commission's information for the base upon
which to adopt classifications and standards.  This, as with
revisions of the existing standards, will require holding of
public hearings on the part of the Commission.  Early
conference recommendations are essential in order to reduce
the lead time for the hearings, upon which will depend the
scheduling of projects where permit revocations or orders are
required.  The Commission plans to proceed simultaneously with

-------
                                                         341
                       L. H. Smith
the establishment of new or revised standards and the issu-
ance of necessary orders on all sources, including completion
target dates, thus eliminating the holding of separate
hearings for orders or permit revocations as would otherwise
be required by State law.
            Holding hearings of this type, evaluating the
often conflicting evidence obtained, and preparing the sub-
sequent legal documentation is, under existing Minnesota laws,
a very complex and time-consuming procedure which may require
as much as six to nine months for completion.  The procedure
cannot be started until the conference summary and recommenda-
tions are received.  This being the case, it is recommended
that the first three phases of scheduling for construction
projects (i.e., a, b and c, as given in Paragraph 1 on Page 3^
of the Summary Report) not be included in the final recommenda-
tions of the conferees.  There is no objection to the overall
target completion date of three years from the receipt of
the summary, but, in view of the necessary lead time mentioned
and the uncertainty accompanying the preliminary stages of
many projects, it is believed that it would be much better
not to fix specific deadlines for these stages.  It is
suggested that an annual or aemi-annual reporting requirement
be inserted instead, so that all of the agencies concerned
will be kept informed of progress.  By this method, lagging

-------
                                                     342
                       L. H. Smith
projects will be readily apparent to all, and possible em-
barrassment relating to unrealistic assessment of the time
needed for, or unforeseen delays in, preliminary stages will
be avoided.  This has been the procedure used by the Commis-
sion and our experience demonstrates that it is a more
realistic approach when dealing with projects of many
different sizes and kinds and in all stages of planning.
            MR. STEIN:  Mr. Smith, I wonder if I may interrupt
you there.
            I know this is going to take some discussion, but
let me throw something out to you.
            I think we intended with reference to the interim
dates to have semi-annual progress meetings.  Now, here Is
the problem that we have come into, and I think this is an
agreement that we have made with most of the States.  As a
matter of fact, I am pretty sure even with Wisconsin, when
we have had other cases, we didn't have any trouble.
            This is the philosophy of setting up these interim
dates.  We feel that this helps us all, because even If you
go to a progress meeting, how do you know if a project is
lagging, or how would the people know if a project is lagging
unless it is Immediately apparent to all?
            Now, if there is a good explanation for a project
falling behind, I don't know that it need present any

-------
                                                       343
                       L. H. Smith
embarrassment.   I would like the Minnesota people to see
if we could not arrive at sone kind of an arrangement
where we could set up these interin dates on this kind of
thing.
            For example, in the Lake Erie case, we arrived
at this notion.  We had received interim dates from Michigan
that had their program started for one reason or another a
little before, but the other five States didn't quite have
these yet.  The agreement was that at the first progress
meeting, which we are going to have in a few weeks in Buffalo
on Lake Erie, all the States come up with the interim dates
for their projects.
            It may be that giving you six months or something
to come up with these would be the thing, But I do think, Mr.
Smith, that these interim dates are kind of essential for
us, and not only us, because I think we have an obligation
to keep the people informed, for the citizens, the press, and
the other media to know if we are doing the job, or the city
is doing the job.  Otherwise, you have three years to wait,
and you are not quite sure about this.
            Let me make this last point, because this has
been my experience in water pollution control.  You can get
all the people concentrating on the problem just so often
at a meeting of this kind, and then, if you go away and

-------
                       L. H. Smith                     344
nothing happens for three years, the pressure points are
suoh that the program nay lag, and lag so much that it becomes
irretrievably late if you don't pick it up.
            Of course, we can overdo thia, but I think a
reasonable amount of interim dates in between will prevent
that.  Very often, the interim dates prove more embarrassing
to the regulatory agency* and that includes us, more than
anything else, because the newspapers begin asking the
questions, and I am not reluctant to put that in.
            I think it does us all some good.
            MR. POSTON:  Mr. Stein?
            MR. STEIN:  Yes.
            MR. POSTON:  I would like to say that in this
whole pollution picture, one of the major things that I think
has caused a lack of abatement of 'pollution has been the fact
that the polluters haven't really felt that they had to do
thia, and they had to do it by a certain time,
            I think that until we set dates, until we specify
standards, until municipalities and industries realize that
they must do these things, they are going to lag.  Their
business primarily isn't to abate pollution and to get rid
of their wastes; it is some other purpose, and until we set
time schedules and water quality standards, we are not going
to make anybody believe that we mean business.
            DR. JELATIS:  Mr. Chairman?

-------
                                                        3*5
                       L. H. Smith
            MR. STEM:  Ye*.
            DR. JELATIS:  I would like to ask a question
about something that I an not very clear on.  That is, you
have heard the description of the procedure required by
Minnesota law of protracted hearings and notice which are
necessary in order for the Pollution Control Commission to
set the standards.
            Now, this procedure for the stretches of the
river that are now not covered by standards, and for those
stretches which the standards would have to be revised for,
would require, under present legal hearing requirements, a
time that would certainly be longer than the six months
required or recommended for submission of preliminary plans
for remedial facilities.
            Now, would the adoption of standards by this
conference automatically impose these as standards that apply
to the State, or would we still have to go through the formal
procedure of hearings?
            MR. STEIN:  Dr. Jelatis has asked a lot of
questions in that.  Let me try to answer them.
            No. 1, I don't want to be the definitive man who
is going to interpret Minnesota law.  That is your Job.  I
have read your law.  I have read your law carefully, and I
have read your law with interest.  I know the procedures

-------
                       L. H.  Smith
you have to go through to classify the waters.
            If you think that and the establishment of
standards mean the same thing, that is your law and you have
to interpret that.
            The second is that this conference  is not going
to establish standards.  That is set up by another provision
in the law in all the States  and the Federal Government.
            What we are going to do is set up certain recom-
mended requirements for the clean-up of the waters in the
Twin Cities area, and we hopefully are going to come up with
a time schedule to do this.
            What I am suggesting to you, and you know this
is something that we all have to work on together, is that,
generally speaking, we have found that setting  up a time-
table, and I don't think we are going to have any trouble
with that, and setting up the requirements and  a time
schedule and six months' progress plans, which indicate
whether we have these meetings or not, lead the way to getting
things done.
            Let me tell you that this works as  much with the
Federal Government as some others.  In one of these operations,
we were to meet a time schedule which we didn't quite do.  For
example, this involved a situation in Cleveland, and it came
six months and one day, and the Cleveland newspapers began

-------
                       L. M. Smith
rewinding us of this In ever-Increasing crescendo.  You
know this helps, and I do think that by giving the people
and the press a schedule like this to check on us, we give
them some Indicia where they can Judge whether we are doing
our Job.  I think this Is fair.  So this Is the situation.
            However, I do think the Minnesota people have
a lot of things to think over themselves.  I can't tell you
how to run your State program, and how to run your law.
            DR. JELATIS:  Thank you.
            MR. WISNIEWSKI:  Mr. Chairman?
            MR. STEIN:  Yes.
            MR. WISNIEWSKI:  I would like, before the
conferees decide firmly on this question of interim dates, to  ask
that they explore the enforceability of such a procedure,
and we could do that before we make a decision.
            MR. STEIN:  I agree with you on that.
            MR. WILSON:  Mr. Chairman?
            MR. STEIN:  Yea, Mr. Wilson.
            MR. WILSON:  Mr. Chairman, may I call attention
to this inescapable situation as far as the Minnesota Commis-
sion is concerned?
            Under the Minnesota law, it is necessary for the
Commission to hold hearings before the adoption of standards.
Every standard is appealable.

-------
                                                       348
                       L. H. Smith
            This, the necessity of adopting standards in
advance before enforcement orders can be issued, has
practically doubled and in many cases probably more than
doubled the time for getting the enforcement action against
specific sources of pollution, as compared with a system that
was enforced in Wisconsin before the adoption of standards
was required, where their State committee could issue an
immediate order for the ceasing of pollution, or the adoption
of remedial measures, without going through all the red tape
of adopting standards in advance.
            After the Minnesota Commission, after holding
hearings lasting, I think, a total of eight days or so,
spread over a period of several months in 1962, adopted the
present standards for the stretch of the Mississippi River
between Anoka and the mouth of the St. Crolx, the most contro-
versial standard, the one applying to the St  Anthony Falls
Pool, was attacked in court by the North Suburban Sanitary
District.
            That resulted in a trial in the District Court
of Anoka County that lasted some eight days or more, a year
and a half ago, or a year ago last summer.  Then the decision
of the Court did not come down for nearly a year.  I guess
it was a full year before the District Court decided the case.
            Then the Commission has taken an appeal to the

-------
                                                      349
                       L. H. Smith
Supreme Court from the adverse decision.   The District Court
decided that the high standards which our Commission attempted
to apply in that case were unreasonable,  and the Commission,
in order to sustain its standards, has taken an appeal to
the Supreme Court.
            There Mill be a transcript in that case of over
1,000 pages.  The reporter hasn't gotten  it done yet.
            According to all the experience, we shall not be
able to get a decision of the Supreme Court as to the validity
of that standard until some time next fall or next winter at
the very earliest.
            Now, these are things which the Commission cannot
control.
            The adoption of other standards by the Commission
has also been the subject of court attack, and in view of that
situation, and the fact that the adoption of this New York
standard system has multiplied the opportunities for court
attacks on the various points, it is virtually impossible for
the Commission to guarantee that it will  issue an enforcement
order by a certain time in any specific case.  Any such
declaration would have to be subject to the possibility that
the affected municipality or industry might attack first the
standards, and then suppose the standard  is sustained and
the Commission issues an order, that order will also be

-------
                                                            350
                    L. H. Smith

appealable to the courts with like delay.

           It seems to me that the moat that can be clone is

to depend on the past records of the Minnesota Commission of

attempting to deal with these problems with the utmost dili-

gence at its command, and that any attempt to impose hard and

fast deadlines would have to be made subject to modification

and recognition of these unexpected delays that may be en-


countered without fault of the Commission.

           MR. SMITH:  I would like to point out, Mr. Chairman,

that for a year the Commission has used just what you have

indicated, a time schedule; but in this case, where the lead

time is necessary as far as our standards are concerned, our

first six months date doesn't mean anything.

           MR. STEIN: This may be, but I suggest that we think

about this.

           I think Mr. Wilson has raised a point.  Let me try

this with Minnesota, because, goodness knows, we are talking

about the whole program and we are here to try to get a State-

Federal program moving.  We hope that you can reach all the

qualifications and permit the uninterrupted flow of the waters

of Minnesota, as well as the interstate waters of Minnesota.

But, Mr. Wilson, you are right.  I think that New York has

abandoned that after fifteen years.  They have classified

the streams.  They have had some magnificent lawsuits.  They

-------
                                                     351
                       L. H. Smith
have been up to the highest court in New York State, which
they call the Court of Appeals, two or three times, with
tremendous decisions.
            The difficulty is when you get through classifying
all those waters, they found, lo and behold, that none of the
waters were any bit cleaner than when they started.
            Now, the Governor there instituted this, and we
have been up there.  There is a crash program for a clean-up.
They voted a billion dollar Statewide bond issue to give to
the cities, and, as far as I know, in New York State, we,
the Federal people, are working with them practically as one
staff now.  There is no problem, but they went through this.
You don't have to go through fifteen years before this happens.
            Now, the next point:  I appreciate all Mr. Wilson
has said about this, and there is no finer lawyer in this
world than Mr. Wilson.
            As T pointed out, when we first started, anyone
roughly in our generation who says he didn't learn the field
from Mr. Wilson isn't in the field.  He was the mentor of the
law.  This is all very true.
            But I think, without prejudging, of course, or
presuming what the Secretary is going to say, there may be
one kind of judgment if you put in a standard and say it is

-------
                                                      352
                       L. H.  Smith
accepted, or if it has been attacked in the courts and you
have done what you could do under your administrative
decisions, and then put it in the law.  Goodness knows, we
have to preserve the right of court attack and court appeal
in every case.  We are subject to it.  The States are subject
to it.  We would not give this up.
            This is the thing that makes the program work,
that if anyone doesn't like what one of us stuffy, autocratic
old bureaucrats can do, he can take us to court, and this we
recognize.
            However, the question here that we have to raise
is to look at your State law and see if you can set standards
on these streams.
            Many of the States other than Minnesota have
held hearings in two, three,  four, five, six parts of the
State, and have come up with criteria or are coming up with
criteria covering the streams of those States, which they
have every confidence will meet the Federal requirements.
            Now, goodness, if any of these States come up
with criteria and someone takes them to court, and this is
beyond their control, this is part of the American system,
and I think this would have to be looked at, but I will again
make the plea to Minnesota to let's see if we can get with
  '« and try to work this out.

-------
                                                      353

                       L. H. Smith

            I think as a forward-looking and a progressive

State and a sophisticated State like Minnesota, in trying to

deal with Federal people, who I hope are trying to help and

accommodate    you, we should be smart enough to be able to

resolve this problem for the benefit of all the people here,

rather than to have it resolved in a controversy, because if

we don't come to this agreement, I think this is a failure

on our part.

            Let me say again we have a Federal law that we

have to live with, and you have your law to live with.  We

both have complicated laws.  I hesitate to blame a failure

of people getting together just on awkward laws.

            Chester, we have lived with awkward laws all our

lives.  If the failure happens, I am not sure that the people

that are looking out here won't think it is a failure of the

administrators, rather than the law.

            DR. MARGRAVES:  I would Just like to add, as I

said yesterday, that Minnesota has gone through all you havr

suggested so far.

            We have held five hearings throughout the 5

We have our sets of criteria and standards all set.

only a matter of application.
                                                         i
            During the night, I went through much        *

Federal law,  and I can't for the life of me see

-------
                  L. H. Smith
that each stream shall be classified in order to apply these
standards, so I think there is a very interesting legal — and
I am a medical man -- interesting legal aspect to this, as to
whether what we have already done wouldn't still let us come
in under the law, and then proceed and take care of the job.
           MR. STEIN:  I don't want to prejudge that now,  but
in further support of what you said, Dr. Hargraves, I would
suspect that unlike Minnesota, there are about 30 to 35 States
in the United States who are not authorized to classify their
streams at all.  They can set standards, but they cannot
classify.  Up until recently you weren't, until you adopted
the New York system.  Except for the New England States, New
York, North Carolina, Minnesota, I don't know that there are
any others.  Very few of the other States have a classification
system.
           DR. HARGRAVES:  If I remember rightly, in reading
the hearings of Congressman Blatnik's Public Works Committee,
it took North Carolina five to six years to complete their
classification.
           MR. STEIN:  Let me get off the record.
           (Discussion off the record.)
           MR. WILSON:  Mr. Chairman, may I add another comment,
  xview of what Dr. Hargraves has said?
            I »ade some  comments yesterday on the unexpected

-------
                                                      353
                       L. H. Smith
            I think as a forward-looking and a progressive
State and a sophisticated State like Minnesota, in trying to
deal with Federal people, who I hope are trying to help and
accommodate    you, we should be smart enough to be able to
resolve this problem for the benefit of all the people here,
rather than to have it resolved in a controversy, because if
we don't come to this agreement, I think this is a failure
on our part.
            Let me say again we have a Federal law that we
have to live with, and you have your law to live with.  We
both have complicated laws.  I hesitate to blame a failure
of people getting together just on awkward laws.
            Chester, we have lived with awkward laws all our
lives.  If the failure happens, I am not sure that the people
that are looking out here won't think it is a failure of the
administrators, rather than the law.
            DR. HARQRAVES:  I would just like to add, as I
said yesterday, that Minnesota has gone through all you have
suggested so far.
            We have held five hearings throughout the State.
We have our sets of criteria and standards all set.  It is
only a matter of application.
            During the night, I went through much of the
Federal law, and I can't for the life of me see where it says

-------
                                                          354
                  L. H. Smith
that each stream shall be classified in order to apply these
standards, so I think there is a very interesting legal — and
I am a medical man — interesting legal aspect to this, as to
whether what we have already done wouldn't still let us come
in under the law, and then proceed and take care of the job.
           MR. STEIN:  I don't want to prejudge that now,  but
in further support of what you said, Dr. Hargraves, I would
suspect that unlike Minnesota, there are about 30 to 35 States
in the United States who are not authorized to classify their
streams at all.  They can set standards, but they cannot
classify.  Up until recently you weren't, until you adopted
the New York system.  Except for the New England States, New
York, North Carolina, Minnesota, I don't know that there are
any others.  Very few of the other States have a classification
system.
           DR. HARGRAVES:  If I remember rightly, in reading
the hearings of Congressman Blatnik's Public Works Committee,
it took North Carolina five to six years to complete their
classification.
           MR. STEIN;  Let me get off the record.
           (Discussion off the record.)
           MR. WILSON:  Mr. Chairman, may I add another comment,
in view of what Dr. Hargraves has said?
           I made some comments yesterday on the unexpected

-------
                                                      355
                       L. H. Smith
effect of these requirements of the Federal law of certain
things to be done by June 30, 1967, and I want to point out
this:
            It is an elementary rule of statutory construc-
tion, sustained by court decisions all over the country, and
by decisions of the United States Supreme Court, that every
law is to be given a reasonable construction in the light of
its purpose.
            The purpose of the Federal Act, the purpose of
the Minnesota Water Pollution Control Law, is to get ahead
with the control of pollution as rapidly and effectively as
possible, and if a liberal interpretation of these provisions
of the Federal law such as has apparently been adopted by the
head of the Federal administration is going to frustrate those
purposes, It is not in accordance with the principles of
established statutory construction.
            You will find many cases where the courts have
departed from the literal provisions of a statute in order to
construe It in furtherance of the advancement of its purposes,
and I want to repeat that if the present position of the
Federal Administration is that if the Minnesota Commission
does not by June 30th do certain things, which are apparently
impossible, and then the Federal Government has to come in
here and hold hearings and set up standards, It is simply

-------
                                                     356
                       L. H. Smith
going to delay the progress of the action program, which is
already going on under the Minnesota Commission.  Instead
of advancing the purposes of the Federal law, it will delay
and defeat them.
            For that reason, Mr. Chairman, I again urge that
there should be a reconsideration of this Federal decision,
and it should be done very soon, before any action is taken
at the current session of the Legislature that may upset this
program.
            MR. STEIN:  Mr. Smith?
            MR. SMITH:  May I continue?
            MR. STEIN:  Yes.
            MR. SMITH:  The ultimate disposition of many of
the matters involved herein will depend upon the action of our
State Legislature, which is now in session, or be heavily
Influenced by such action or lack of it.  These include the
following:
            a.  Augmentation of the staff and resources
      of the Commission, and/or reorganization thereof.
      It is obvious that many of the tasks indicated,
      such as extensive monitoring, intensive review of
      works operation, liquid storage and solid wastes
      programs, follow-through with standards and con-
      struction schedules, etc., will require considerable

-------
                                               357
                 L. H. Smith
staff over and above what the Commission has at
present.  If the staff is not provided, the Com-
mission will have no alternatives but either to
turn its back on the needs of most of the other
parts of the State and other aspects of water
pollution control, or to default in its responsi-
bilities to this area.
      b.  New legislation probably will be needed
specifically authorizing the Commission to require
recovery of spilled wastes, such as oil, from
watercourses, and to extend its control into the
field of disposal of sewage arising from commercial
shipping, documented vessels and other watercraft
not licensed by Minnesota.
      c.  Creation of a metropolitan area sanitary
district responsible to the Commission, to provide
an integrated approach to construction and opera-
tion of waste disposal works for the entire area is
badly needed.  The Commission has continuously urged
this concept for the past three sessions of the
Legislature.  Hopefully it may come to fruition in
the present session if it is not lost in the con-
fusion engendered by the multiplicity of proposals
for solution of sewage disposal problems of the area,

-------
                                                       358



                       L. H. Smith



            In concluding* the Commission would like to in-



dicate that they sincerely hope that this conference will



result in recommendations acceptable to all concerned, so as



to assure maximum support for the Commission's policies,



programs and objectives.  Water pollution control is a



monumental task, as evidenced by the resources the Federal



Government has poured into it recently, but in order that our



efforts be fruitful, the whole-hearted cooperation of all



agencies, organizations and individuals involved is vitally



necessary.



            That is the end of my statement.



            I would like to submit for the record the exhibits



which I would like incorporated in the record.

-------
                                                    359
                    L. H. Smith
(The following exhibits were submitted for Inclusion In
the record.)
                                      Exhibit 1


                   STATE OF MINNESOTA
          WATER POLLUTION CONTROL COMMISSION


                 CHAPTER POUR:  WPC 4


WPG 4 Regulation relating to storage or keeping of oil and
other liquid substances capable of polluting waters of the
State
          (a)  Definitions
            (1)  The definitions given in this section shall
                 obtain for the purposes of this regulation
                 except as otherwise specified or indicated
                 by the context.
            (2)  "Substance" means any liquid material which
                 might cause pollution of any waters of the
                 state if mixed therewith.
            (3)  "Safeguard" means a facility or device or any
                 system or combination thereof designed to
                 prevent the escape or movement of any sub-
                 stance or solution thereof from the place
                 of storage or keeping thereof under such

-------
           L.  H.  Smith                            360
     conditions that pollution of any waters  of the
     State might  result  therefrom.
(4)  "Site" means any tract  or parcel of  land,  including
     any constructed storage tank or  artificial or
     natural basin or containment facility, except under-
     ground or burled tanks  where any substance is
     stored or kept and  which is  so  located that the
     escape or movement  of such substance or  a  solution
     therefrom from the  site or into  the  underlying
     ground might result in  pollution of  any  waters of
     the State.
(5)  "Stored liquid material" means  liquid material which
     is within a  container or containment device located
     within the State other  than  a mobile type  unit
     while in  transit, used  for transporting  said
     material  from one location to another.
(b)  Prohibition of Storage  or Keeping Substances without
     Safeguards.   No substance shall  be stored, kept, or
     allowed to remain in or upon any site without reason-
     able safeguards adequate to  prevent  the  escape or
     movement  of the substance or a  solution  thereof  from
     the site  under any  conditions of failure of the
     storage facility whereby pollution of any  waters of
     the State might result  therefrom. It shall be the
     duty of every owner of  such  stored substances, or
     other person responsible therefor, to obtain
     from the  Water Pollution

-------
                                             361
          L.  H.  Smith
     Control  Commission a permit  for the use of
     the Bite for the storage of  liquid  substances
     as provided In Section d or  Section e.
(c)  Safeguards.  Unless otherwise prescribed by
     a permit issued under Section d or  Section e
     as hereinafter provided, every safeguard
     shall comply with the requirements  of this
     section, and shall consist of the following
     features.
  (l)  A continuous dike or wall  entirely sur-
       rounding  the site of such  dimensions and
       construction that the emergency storage
       volume thereby created will be equal to
       not less  than the total capacity  of the
       largest storage tank or other container
       located within the area enclosed  by the
       dike and  will hold securely all of the
       aforesaid tank contents or any solution
       thereof In case of any failure of the
       container and the escape or movement  of
       the substance or solution  from its con-
       tainer or place of storage or keeping;
  (2)  A reasonably impervious bottom under  the
       entire site and enclosure  of such construe-

-------
                                          362
        L.  H.  Smith
     tlon or composition either natural or
     artificial as to prevent in case of any
     failure of the container the seepage,
     percolation, or other movement of any
     substance stored or kept on the site or
     within the enclosure or any solution
     thereof into the underlying ground In
     such quantity that substantial pollution
     of the waters of the state in the vicinity
     might  reasonably be expected to result
     therefrom under conditions prevailing at
     the site.
(3)  Any alternative method of adequate safe-
     guards submitted by owners of stored liquid
     substances may be reviewed by the Water
     Pollution Control Commission.  Upon finding
     that any such alternative safeguards are
     satisfactory and that they will reasonably
     protect any waters of the State against
     pollution by the stored liquid, the Commis-
     sion may approve the use of said alternate
     safeguards In lieu of the above standards
     and may thereafter issue a permit in accord-
     ance with Section d or Section e hereunder.

-------
                                         363
          L.  H.  Smith
(d)  Permits  - Issuance on Application.  On
     application for a permit by the owner or
     other person responsible for the keeping or
     storage  of any substance on any site the
     Water Pollution Control Commission may require
     plans showing the features and method of opera-
     tion of  existing or proposed safeguards in
     accordance with these regulations.  Such
     plans must be accompanied by a certification
     as to the adequacy of such safeguards.  The
     Commission may thereafter Issue a permit
     therefor upon such conditions as it shall
     prescribe to prevent pollution of any waters
     of the State by such substance.  Such permit
     shall be subject to modification or revoca-
     tion by  the Commission In like manner as
     provided by law for permits for the instal-
     lation or operation of disposal systems or
     parts thereof.
  (1)  Before the Issuance, denial, revocation
       or modification of a permit by the Commis-
       sion any person whose vested rights may be
       adversely affected thereby shall, upon re-
       quest  therefor, be entitled to a hearing

-------
                                            364
          L. H. Smith
     before the Commission for the purpose of
     presenting evidence thereat.
     Written notice of the hearing stating the
     time and place thereof shall be given by
     the Commission to any person known by it to
     be directly affected by such action of the
     Commission either personally or by registered
     mall not less than 30 days before the date
     of the hearing.
(e)  Flammable liquids.  Notwithstanding the pro-
     visions of Section d, of these regulations* a
     permit may be issued to owners of a flammable
     liquid storage facility upon certification
     by the Minnesota State Fire Marshal that the
     requirements of the Minnesota State Fire
     Marshal*s flammable liquids code as amended
     and Section b of these regulations, have been
     complied with and are currently being fulfilled,
(f)  Inadequate Safeguards.  In case the Commission
     shall find that any substance is stored or
     kept on any site without a safeguard, or
     that any existing safeguard is inadequate,
     it may by order require the owner or other
     responsible person to immediately remove the

-------
          L. H. Smith                      365
     substance from the site and to refrain from
     further storage or Keeping of any substance
     therein unless and until an adequate safeguard
     Is provided as hereinbefore prescribed.
(g)  Notice Concerning Loss.  It shall be the duty
     of the owner of a liquid storage facility or
     other responsible person In charge thereof
     to notify the Water Pollution Control Commis-
     sion at Its office In the Minnesota Depart-
     ment of Health Building at the University
     Campus, Minneapolis, of any loss of stored
     liquids either by accident or otherwise when
     such loss Involves a liquid substance which
     would be lively to enter any waters of the
     state.  Said notice shall be by telephone or
     other comparable means and shall be made Imme-
     diately upon discovery of the loss.  The
     notification shall include the location and
     nature of the loss and other pertinent
     information as may be available at the time.
(h)  Violations.  Violation of any provision of
     this regulation shall be punishable as provided
     by law.
(1)  Application.  This regulation shall not apply
     to the disposal of sewage, Industrial waste.

-------
                                                     366
                    L. H. Smith
               or other wastes under permits issued by the
               Commission as provided by law.
                                    Exhibit 2

                STATE OP MINNESTOA

       WATER POLLUTION CONTROL COMMISSION


AN ACT RELATING TO WATERCRAFT; PROVIDING FOR THE REGULATION

OF MARINE TOILETS AND THE DISPOSITION OF WASTES FROM WATER-

CRAFT, (Minnesota Statues 1961, Seotlon 361.29, as amended

by Chapter No. 313* Laws of Minnesota, 1963* as amended by
Chapter No. 273, Laws of Minnesota, 1965)


          Section 1.  (MARINE TOILETS).  Subdivision 1.
(a)  For the purposes of this section the term "wateroraft"
has the meaning given to it by Laws 1959» Chapter 592,

Section 2, Subdivision 1, and acts amendatory thereof.

(b)  No person owning or operating a wateroraft or other

marine conveyance upon the waters of the State of Minnesota

shall use, operate or permit the use or operation of any

marine toilet or other similar device for the disposition

of sewage or other wastes, unless the marine toilet is

-------
                                                    367
                    L. H. Smith
equipped with a treatment device of a type acceptable to
the Water Pollution Control Commission of the State of
Minnesota.  No person shall discharge into the waters of
this State, directly or indirectly from a watereraft, any
untreated sewage or other wastes, nor shall any container
of untreated sewage or other wastes be placed, left, dis-
charged, or caused fco be placed, left or discharged in or
near any waters of this State from a watercraft in such
manner or quantity as to create a nuisance or health hazard
or pollution of such waters, by any person or persons at any
time whether or not the owner, operator, guest or occupant
of a wateroraft or other marine conveyance.
          Subdivision 2.  The Water Pollution Control Commis-
sion shall upon request furnish a list of the types of
treatment devices currently available and considered ac-
ceptable for the purposes of this section for use with
such marine toilets.  The commissioner of Conservation
shall furnish the sheriff of each county in the State of
Minnesota with a list of such treatment facilities accept-
able to the Water Pollution Control Commission of the State
of Minnesota.
          Subdivision 3.  On and after April 1, 1966, no
watercraft or other marine conveyance upon the waters of
the State of Minnesota shall be equipped with any marine
toilet unless also equipped with a treatment device

-------
                                                    368
                    L. H. Smith
acceptable  to the Water Pollution Control Commission of
the State of Minnesota; provided, however, that this
requirement shall not be applicable to watercraft exempt
from licensing under Section 361.03, Subdivision 12.
          Subdivision 4.  Any treatment device designed for
use with a marine toilet, if in good working condition and
of a type acceptable to the Water Pollution Control Commis-
sion of the State of Minnesota, is presumed to comply with
the requirements of this Section,
          Subdivision 5.  The installation or presence of
a marine toilet in a wateroraft shall be indicated by the
owner upon application for licensing of the wateroraft or
marine conveyance, and no license for any such wateroraft
bearing a marine toilet shall be issued except upon certi-
fication by the owner of the installation of an acceptable
treatment device for use with such marine toilet.
          Subdivision 6.  A person who violates any pro-
vision of this Section is guilty of a misdemeanor.
          Section 2.  Notwithstanding the provisions of
any other law to the contrary, Minnesota Statutes 1961, Section
361.29 does not take effect until April 1, 1966, except on
the waters of the Mississippi River where Subdivision 3 of
said Section 361.29 takes effect on January 1, 1967.
                       «•*******

-------
                                                     369



                    L. H. Smith



                                      Exhibit 3



                 STATE OP MINNESOTA



        WATER POLLUTION CONTROL COMMISSION







Criteria for Acceptability of Marine Sewage Treatment Devices



For Use in Conjunction With Toilets on Pleasure Boats or



Other Small Wateroraft



                     June 23, 1966







1.  Definitions;  The following terms are hereby defined



for these purposes:



          a.   Marine Toilet - any toilet when on or within



               a boat or other wateroraft subject to licensing



               in Minnesota, as defined in Minnesota Statutes,



               1961, Section 361.29, An Act Relating to



               Wateroraft; ^j/ovidlng for the Regulation of



               Marine Toilets and the Disposition of Wastes



               from Wateroraft.



          b.   Sewage - all human body wastes in admixture



               with water or otherwise as discharged from a



               marine toilet.



          o.   Sewage Treatment Device - any device connected



               to a marine toilet for the purpose of treating,



               storing or disposing of the sewage discharged

-------
                                                    370
                    L. H. Smith
               from the toilet.
          d.   Effluent - the mixture of fecal material,
               urine, flushing water, disinfectant chemi-
               oals, or other materials as discharged  from
               the treatment device.
          e.   MPN (most probable number) - a statistical
               measure of the number of collfom group
               organisms present in water or sewage as
               defined in the latest edition of "Standard
               Methods for the Examination of Water, and
               Waste Water," APHA, AWWA, WPCF, and determined
               in accordance with such methods.
          f.   Suspended Solids - the solid particles  in
               suspension in the effluent of the sewage
               disposal device, determined in accordance
               with "Standard Methods."
          g.   Chlorine Residual - as determined in accord-
               ance with "Standard Methods."
2.  General Objectives;
          a.   The sewage treatment device shall be con-
               structed, Installed, and operated so as to
               minimize to the maximum practicable extent

-------
                                           371
          L. H. Smith
     possible nuisance conditions and health
     and safety hazards associated with the
     discharge of sewage or use of the marine
     toilet and treatment unit.
b.   Materials used shall be reasonably resistant
     to corrosion under the conditions of use and
     of ample strength for safe operation with any
     commercially available marine toilet and type
     of watercraft.
o.   The unit shall be so constructed and Installed
     as to avoid the escape of gases or obnoxious
     odors into the boat, be relatively easy to
     operate and maintain, and function automatic-
     ally with the operation of the marine toilet.
d.   The disinfectant chemicals used and the treat-
     ment or disposal methods shall be such that
     the effluent if discharged from the treatment
     device to waters of the State will not be a
     substantial source of pollution as defined
     by law (Minnesota Statutes, Chapter 115), or
     so that the effluent and manner of discharge
     will not affect adversely any component of
     on-shore sewage disposal systems, including
     municipal or other sewage treatment works.

-------
                                      372
     L. H. Smith
The acceptability of a treatment device to
the Minnesota Water Pollution Control Com-
mission generally will be based upon certi-
fication by a consulting engineer registered
in Minnesota that the device (a full scale
prototype, or production unit substantially
equal to a stock unit chosen at random from
a dealer) was tested under conditions of
actual use, but not necessarily mounted in a
boat, for a period of two weeks with a mini-
mum of at least one defecation daily (and
preferably more), was found to be generally
satisfactory in construction and operation,
and that the unit and the effluent test
results meet the general and specific objec-
tives given herein.
Reliable information from other sources,
however, may be considered and upon favorable
evaluation by the Executive Engineer, the
subject device may be recommended to the
Water Pollution Control Commission for ac-
ceptance on the basis of substantial con-
formance with the criteria.

-------
                                                  373
                    L. H. Smith
3.  Specific Objectives:  The effluent of the marine toilet
and on-board sewage treatment device combination, when dis-
charged to surface waters, shall meet the following minimum
conditions:
          a.   Not more than 5$ (by weight) of the suspended
               solids in the effluent shall be larger than
               lA inch in any dimension, and at least 75/6
               of the suspended solids in the effluent shall
               be no larger than 1/8 inch in any dimension.
               Solid materials readily recognizable as
               being associated with sewage shall be re-
               duced to a minimum.
          b.   A substantial chlorine residual shall be
               present in the effluent at all times (if
               chlorine is used as the disinfecting agent).
          o.   The conform group organisms in the effluent
               test samples, after dechlorlnation and macera-
               tion in a laboratory blender, shall not exceed
               1,000 MPN/100 ml In more than 1O# of the test
               samples, and the average of 10 consecutive
               dally tests shall not exceed 500 MPN/100 ml.

4.  New Developments:  Consideration will be given to the
use of other disinfecting agents or methods of treatment
if test results demonstrate that the foregoing objectives

-------
                    L. H. Smith
can be met.

APPROVED by resolution of the Minnesota Water Pollution
Control Commission, June 23, 1966.

                   Robert N. Barr, M. D., Secretary
                   Water Pollution Control Commission
Datedj  June 23, 1966

                *********

                                      Exhibit 4

                  STATE OP MINNESOTA
         WATER POLLUTION CONTROL COMMISSION
              Sewage Treatment Devices
         for Installation on Pleasure Boats
              or Other Small Wat ere raft

          The Water Pollution Control Commission on the
dates indicated accepted the following devices for use In
conjunction with marine toilets on pleasure boats or other
small wateroraft for treatment of sewage, as required by
Section 361.29, Laws of 1961.

-------
                                                     375
                    L. H. Smith
1.        "C-Chlor Mark 5"» manufactured by Carlson and
          Son, 19 James Place, Metuohen, New Jersey,
          (December 21, 1962).
2.       "Marine Ghloj?lnator" , manufactured by Apollco
          Corporation, 1391 Pierce Butler, St. Paul,
          Minnesota, (April 18, 1963).
3.        "Destrollet", manufactured by La Mere Industries,
          Inc., Walworth, Wisconsin, (February 27, 1964).
          This device Is accepted for use on pleasure boats
          with the condition that the device and all fuel
          tanks and other appurtenances be Installed and
          maintained In compliance with applicable regula-
          tions of the U. S. Coast Guard (Title 46 CFR
          55.16) and any requirements of the Minnesota Fire
          Marshal relating to the use of liquid petroleum
          gas on boats.  The device is not^ acceptable for use
          on vessels operated within the U. S. Coast Guard
          jurisdiction which are used in the carriage of
          passengers for hire because the use of liquid
          petroleum gas on such vessels is prohibited by
          Coast Guard regulations.  No statement Indicating
          acceptance of the device by the Water Pollution
          Control Commission shall be used in any advertising

-------
                                          376
          L. H. Smith
promotion or Bale of the device unless the state-
ment Includes, In the same size type, the
following:  "Accepted as to pollution control
capabilities only and not evaluated as to safety
hazards."
"Mono-Marine Sanitation System", manufactured by
Monogram Industries, Inc., 8525 Steller Drive,
Culver City, California, 90231, (March 26, 1964).
This device Is accepted with the following condi-
tions so that there will be no discharges of
sewage from the system directly to waters of the
State;
a.   The tank and/or outlet piping must be Instal-
     led on the boat so that gravity discharge to
     the waters will not be possible.
b.   Individual tank discharge pumps on the boat
     are prohibited in Minnesota waters.
c.   Discharge of the tank contents may be done
     only by dockslde or on-shore facilities and
     the contents may be discharged only to ilsposal
     facilities operated under a permit from the
     Water Pollution Control Commission.
d.   If relatively large quantities of such treated
     tank contents are to be discharged to a

-------
                                                    377
                   L.  H.  Smith

               disposal system in a short period, a surge
               tank may be required to equalize the flow
               and avoid possible detrimental "slug"
               effects upon the sewage treatment works.
5.        "Monomatio Marine Sanitation System," Model 1,
          manufaetured by Monogram Industries, Inc., 8525
          Steller Drive, Culver City, California, 90231,
          (February 28, 1966).  This device is accepted
          with the same conditions given above for the
          Mono-Marine unit so that there will be no dis-
          charge of sewage from the system directly to
          waters of the State.
6.        "SANITANK"System, manufactured by PEFCO, Inc.,
          1380 University Ave., St. Paul 4, Minnesota
          (interim acceptance by Executive Engineer on
          June 7, 1966, and confirmed by Water Pollution
          Control Commission on June 23, 1966).  This
          device is accepted with the same conditions given
          above for the previously accepted storage tank
          devices (MonoMarine and Monomatic systems, No. 4
          and 5 above, items a, b, c and d), so that there
          will be no discharge of sewage from the system
          directly to waters of the State, plus the following:
          e.   If the chemical additive does not prove to

-------
                                                     378
                   L. H. Smith
               be effective in controlling odors at the
               recommended dosage, the dosage shall be
               increased or other chemicals acceptable to
               the Commission shall be provided to ensure
               nuisance free operation.
          These devices are considered to be in substantial
conformanoe with the general objectives of the Criteria for
Acceptability of Marine Sewage Treatment Devices, Minnesota
Water Pollution Control Commission, dated June 23, 1966, with
exceptions noted above.  Additional devices may be added to
this list at a later date, based upon submission of satis-
factory data by the manufacturer or other sources.
          The test data required by the Criteria will in
general be used as a guide for the evaluation of such
devices, but consideration will not be limited thereto.
The Criteria may be revised at reasonable Intervals of
time on the basis of experience and new developments.  In
the event of such revision, a new list of acceptable devices
will be Issued.
          This list was prepared for the purpose of com-
pliance with the requirements of the Minnesota statutes,
(Section 361.29, Laws of 1961, as amended by Chapter 313,
Laws of 1963, and Chapter 273, Laws of 1965) relating to

-------
                                                    379
                   L. H. Smith
disposal of sewage and wastes from watercraft, and Is
not to be construed as an endorsement of these devices
for any other purpose.
Dated:  June 23, 1966        Robert N. Barr, M. D., Secretary
                         Water Pollution Control Commission


                #*#######


                                   Exhibit 5
               MINNESOTA DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH
              DIVISION OP ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH
             SECTION OF WATER POLLUTION CONTROL


      Water Pollution Control Practices Recommended
    for Application for Dumps, Deposits and Stockpiles
                     December 16, 1965


          In order to protect surface and ground waters
from pollution by refuse and other solid materials of a
pollutlonal character, It Is necessary to keep such ma-
terials and drainage therefrom separated from such waters.
The precautions which must be taken to achieve this will
depend primarily on the nature and location of the site
with respect to such waters, and the type of material dumped

-------
                                                    380
                   L. H. Smith
or stored,
          The best location for a disposal or stockpile
site would be one above flood levels, far removed from
lakes, wells or local drainage courses, and having a sub-
stantial depth of relatively Impervious surface soil above
the ground water table.  Such sites present few, if any,
water pollution problems and consequently do not usually
require special safeguards to protect the waters of the
State.  The following sites are considered undesirable and
should be avoided whenever possible.
          1.  Areas where water is present at or near the
               surface, such as sloughs or swamps.
          2.   Areas in river flood plains which are subject
               to flooding.
          3.   Areas adjacent to lakes or streams which
               drain to such waters.
          4.   Ravines or valleys which may at times carry
               run-off or snow melt.
          5.   Areas near municipal or private water sup-
               plies, either surface or underground.
          In the event that any of the foregoing must be
utilized, safeguards adequate to protect the waters of the
State are required, and permits for construction and/or
operation must be obtained from the Water Pollution Control

-------
                                                    381





                   L. H. Smith



Commission as required by Sections 115.01 and 115.0? of the



Water Pollution Control Statutes.  Construction plans and



fairly detailed project data must be submitted for review



and approval before the permits oan be granted.



          Depending upon the situation, the safeguards



required may Include any or all of the following:



          1.   Diking around the site.



          2.   Diversion or containment of surface drainage.



          3.   Sealing of pervious soil or rock formations.



          4.   Covering of dumped or stored material to



               minimize erosion and control drainage and



               storm water percolation.



          5.   Regular supervision and control of operations.



          6.   Provision of an alternate disposal site.



          Earth dikes should be constructed on stable



foundations In compacted lifts of relatively impervious



soils.  Material containing large rooks, or excessive



quantities of gravel and/or broken stone, should be avoided.



Diking may be done annually to the maximum projected opera-



tional level for the year, if an adequate stockpile of earth



is maintained for covering in the case of a flood, or, if



desired, the dikes may be constructed in a single stage to



an elevation above the maximum recorded flood stage.

-------
                                                     382
                   L. H. Smith
          Surface drainage, whether natural or resulting
from private or public works, preferably should be diverted
externally, but may be carried through the site in a water-
tight conduit, so that it will not under any circumstances
come in contact with the dumped or stored material.
          The use of a site in a location where run-off
from the site itself may enter underground water supply
aquifers is not recommended.  Areas of very pervious soil
or fragmented rock formations which either reach the
surface or lie close to the surface should be avoided,
otherwise artificial sealing of the bottom of the site
with such materials as clay, bentonlte, asphalt, synthetic
mats, etc., may be required to prevent percolation of con-
taminated run-off and leach waters into the underground
formations.  In some oases, construction of special wells
or drains may be necessary to permit sampling and analysis
of the waters surrounding the site.
          Except for the active face, refuse dumps and
sanitary landfills should be kept covered with relatively
impervious earth and graded so as to shed water from the
surface and drain it from the site without coming in contact
with refuse.  The earth mantle should have a minimum thick-
ness of two feet to discourage burrowing animals.  A stock-
pile of suitable earth should be on hand at all times in

-------
                                                      383
                   L. H. Smith

sufficient quantity for normal dally covering of the fresh

refuse, for over-winter use and for a reserve to provide

a ready source of cover material in the event of a flood

forecast.  Other types of dumps or stockpiles may require

other kinds of cover or the use of other methods to prevent

excessive leaching or loss of material as may be indicated

by the prevailing circumstances.

          The dumping of refuse should be supervised so

that the refuse is placed correctly in the fill, properly

compacted, and covered.  Only one main access road to the

dump should be open to the public, and all other points of

access should be fenced unless other effective barriers

exist.  The main access road should have a gate which can

be kept looked when a supervisor is not on duty.  In general,

only solid or semi-solid refuse should be accepted for

disposal at a dump.  Large quantities of liquids or materials

which may be highly flammable, explosive or toxic may require

special handling.

          In situations where the site may not be accessible

during flood periods, or because of road restrictions or

other conditions, an alternate site should be provided to

serve during periods when the primary site is not usable.

          The nature and operation of all manner of dumps,

deposits, or stockpiles must not only be controlled by the

-------
                                                      384
                     L.  H.  Smith
  owner so as to avoid  any  actual or potential  pollution of
  any waters of the State,  but  should also  be such  as  to
  avoid causing a nuisance  to others in the vicinity.
                      # * *
            MR. STEIN:  Thank you.
            Are there any further comments or questions?
            (No response.)
            MK. STEIN:  If not, I think this is a very
excellent statement, Mr. Smith.
            I think you have raised many policy and technical
questions which I an sure will need very careful consideration
by the conferees if we are going to resolve this matter.
            I do think that while they are fundamental as
to difference, with good will we can work out a formula which
will be acceptable to all, Wisconsin, Minnesota, and the
Federal Government.
            DR. JELATIS:  Mr. Chairman, I have a question
about a technical matter that has been brought up a number of
times here, and that is the BOD loading of the stream between
the MSSD plant and South St. Paul.  There seems to be some

-------
                                                     385



                       L. H. Smith



question as to the compatabillty of the Federal Summary



recommendations of, I believe it is, 3 milligrams per liter




dissolved oxygen in a 7-
-------
                                                         386
                       L. H. Smith
            MR, STEINs  Let's start that 7-day thing first.
            MR. PRINTZ:  I think to better explain this I
will probably need to draw upon some of our staff that did
assist in the development of this, and the reason for its
selection.
            The State has two basic criteria which I think
are quite clear.  If you will allow me to proceed on this,
the first criterion has been established as 2 milligrams per
liter as a minimum at flows exceeded 90 percent of the time,
using as a basis of this calculation the mean monthly flows.
            The second criterion to which the State has
referred as being more stringent is based on a 1 milligram
per liter minimum dissolved oxygen at flows exceeded 95 per-
cent of the time based on the minimum dally, as opposed to the
previous monthly flows.
            The Federal recommendation is one which will uni-
formly apply throughout the entire study area and will not
change between river systems.  That is a minimum, and again
I stress a minimum dissolved oxygen of 3.0 milligrams per
liter, based on a recurrence interval of 7 consecutive days»
flow, which would recur once every 10 years.
            We feel that the allowable loadings which have
been determined on the basis of our flow and our knowledge of
the river's characteristics are more stringent than the

-------
                                                           38?
                   L. H, Smith

State's criteria, No. 1; and we feel that there is very little

difference in the allowable loadings between our criteria and

the State's criteria, No. 2.  We have recommended the 7-

consecutive-day once-in-10-year low flow period because of its

widespread application throughout the country.

           There are other factors Involved in this, and for

an explanation of these factors, I would like to call upon Mr.

Prank Hall of our staff, who prepared the supplementary report

which you gentlemen have in your package of reports, the one

entitled "Hydrographic Studies," where an explanation of some

of this is given.

           So, with that Mr. Hall, would you come forth and

give a further explanation of the reasoning behind the 7-

consecutive-day once-in-10-year low flow period?



           STATEMENT OP PRANK E. HALL, FEDERAL WATER

           POLLUTION CONTROL ADMINISTRATION, UNITED

           STATES DEPARTMENT OP THE INTERIOR, GREAT

           LAKES REGION, CHICAGO, ILLINOIS



           MR. HALL:  Mr. Stein, Conferees, Ladies and

Gentlemen:  I think it is recognized that what is important

is the flow below which the criteria will be exceeded.

The question involves the method for defining this

-------
                                                        388
                   P. Eo Hall
flow, as I see it.
           Now, when describing the method, this is an academic
question if you assume that both types of analyses are valid,
and they are, both the method that Minnesota uses, which I
will leave to them to describe, and the method that we use.
           Now, why did we use the method we used?
           Mr. Printz hit one or two of the points, but there
are three basic reasons why we used this.
           First, the method used in the Federal Report is
widely used.  The Federal Water Pollution Control Administration
uses this method nationwide.
           Second, as utilized for the purposes of this report,
it provides a uniform measuring stick, that is, the definition
of the flow is consistent.  The definition when applied to
different streams and different parts of the same stream, will
provide different flows.  For example, if we call the defini-
tion "big," a big flow on the Minnesota River would be a
different value than a big flow on the Mississippi River, but
the point is, and the Federal Water Pollution Control Admini-
stration uses this reasoning, that the definition is uniform.
That is why we are using it in the report.
           Finally, I have found, as have many of my colleagues,

-------
                                                       389
                       P. E. Hall
that this method Is more readily understood by both those
technical people working with the hydrologists and the non-
technical individuals.
            MR. STEIN:  Now you see the technical thinking
that we can get into.  I think I can put this down as — I
hope I can and I am not going into the technical aspects — a
computation of the basis that they are dealing with compared
with dancing and walking.
            I am all for it with the technical people.  The
technical people have to come up with it.
            To give you the notion, you are dealing with a low
flow.  The computation, as I understand, they use in Minnesota
by and large is on the basis of 1 day in a 20-year period.
Wisconsin uses an average 7-day in a 15-year period.  Our boys
are proposing 7 days in the 10-year period.
            You shake all these up and you roll them out, and
I don't know.
            (Laughter.)
            This is the kind of argument you get.  The issue
here, as I understand the basis of our argument here, is for
administrative needs to get acceptance, and not to get a
diversity of operations.  Our boys are proposing the 7 in 10.
            Obviously, I don't think the professionals have
zeroed in on any of these.  For historical reasons I assume

-------
                                                      390



                       P.  E.  Hall



Minnesota has 1 in 20.   For historical reasons,  Wisconsin has



7 in 15.



            This is always the case when we get  this new  wave



generation.  These kids are grinding these computers and  they



come up with something new.  I don't know that this  is a



fundamental issue.  Are we ready to take the computation  of



the new wave kids coming along, of the wave of future com-



putees, or do we want to go along with the old historical



things in the State.



            On this issue, I don't think it makes very much



difference.



            DR. JELATIS;  I would like to comment on this just



briefly.



            MR. STEIN:  Yes.



            DR. JELATIS:  I am sure that the study group here



has made a computer model of the river flow.



            MR. STEIN:  Right.



            DR. JELATIS:  And from this model, I am sure they



can give us what the figures are on the Minnesota and the



Wisconsin and the Federal thinking, and how they could co-



relate, but I think that this ties in with a question that



you asked yesterday about 5 milligrams per liter.



            I think this was stated by Mr. Prints, that 5



milligrams per liter would be exceeded 75 percent of the time,

-------
                                                       391
                       P. E. Hall
and you said, "Why not put this in as a recommendation?"
I wonder if later in the technical discussion we can't go
into this in a more refined way, and say 1 milligram per liter
for a certain percentage of the time, 5 milligrams, or what-
ever it is.
            MR. STEIN:  We will do that, and I think we can
arrive at a judgment.
            Let me for Just one second get off the record.
            (Discussion off the record. )
            MR. WISNIEWSKI:  Mr. Chairman, I would like to
correct one of your remarks.
            MR. STEIN:  Yes?
            MR. WISNIEWSKI:  You mentioned setting up the
formula that no State is less than another, and so forth.
            I think the important thing to understand is that
all States get less than they should be getting because of
these formulas.
            (Laughter;)
            MR. HOLMER:  Uniformly.
            MR. STEIN:  Well, off the record here.
            (Discussion off the record. )
            MR. STEIN:  Is there anything else?
            MR. SMITH:  I have a large number of people who
wish to make presentations.

-------
                                                       392
            May we have a short recesa?
            MR. STEIN:  We will recess for ten minutes,  and
then we will go on with the presentations.
            (Whereupon a recess was  had.)
            MR. STEIN:  May we reconvene?
            I will now ask Minnesota to call on their  par-
ticipants.
            Mr. Smith?
            MR. SMITH:  I would like to call on the  people
who wish to make statements by following the list  contained
on Pages 23 and 24 of the Report first, and then we  will call
on those not listed specifically for different portions  of the
report.
            The first statement that I have is from  the  City
of Minneapolis.
            Is there anyone here to  give that statement  this
morning?
            (No response. )
            MR. SMITH:  If not, may  I have this read?
            MR. STEIN:  I would say, if there are  any  state-
ments, it would be appreciated if a  copy were given  to the
reporter, if you have another copy.   If you don't, then  will
you give it to him at the conclusion of the statement?

-------
                                                     393



                    G. Ginner



          STATEMENT ON BEHALF OF THE CITY OF



          MINNEAPOLIS, READ BY GARY GINNER,



          ENGINEER, MINNESOTA DEPARTMENT OF



                      HEALTH








          MR. GINNER:  For the record, my name is Gary



Ginner and I am with the Minnesota Department of Health.



I will read the statement.



                   CITY OF MINNEAPOLIS



        STATEMENT FOR PRESENTATION AT THE FEDERAL



        AND INTERSTATE CONFERENCE ON POLLUTION OF



        THE MISSISSIPPI RIVER AT MINNEAPOLIS



                    FEBRUARY 28, 196?








          The Public Works Department of the City of



Minneapolis is responding to the invitation of the Water



Pollution Control Commission with respect to the policy



of the City of Minneapolis concerning the problem of



pollution with reference to the Mississippi River as it



involves the city.



          As the largest city on the Upper Mississippi



River Watershed, the City of Minneapolis has long recognized



and exercised its responsibility in the control and abate-



ment of water pollution and the protection of the Metropoli-




tan Area's water resources.

-------
                    G. G inner                        394
          In 1933, as the culmination of an extensive In-
vestigation of the pollution of the Mississippi River, the
City of Minneapolis Joined with the City of Saint Paul as
the major participants in the Mineeapolis-Salnt Paul Sanitary
District.  The accomplishments of the Sanitary District in-
olude the engineering and construction of a major system of
interceptor sewers and treatment works which set the pattern
of downstream pollution abatement and waste treatment prac-
tices.  Beginning operation in 1938* the Sanitary District's
primary sewage treatment plant has established an outstanding
record of successful and efficient operation, effecting a
significant Improvement in the past downstream river condi-
tions and maintaining reasonable levels of water quality.
          In response to the surge of growth and development
experienced in the Minneapolis-Saint Paul Metropolitan Area
In the early 1950's, the Minneapolis-Saint Paul Sanitary
District in 1956 embarked upon a costly and extensive study
of the sewage works requirements of the metropolitan area.
With the preliminary investigation essentially completed in
June 1961, the District authorized a major expansion pro-
gram to the existing Pig's Eye Lake Sewage Treatment Plant.
This treatment plant expansion project, which has a total
estimated cost of $25,750,000, is now approaching completion
of construction.  It Includes additional capacity for the

-------
                                                       395
                    0. GInner
growth and development of the two Central Cities as well
as the contracted suburban coamunltles which comprise a
sewered area nearly double that of Minneapolis-Saint Paul
proper.  In addition, the new expanded treatment plant in-
cludes secondary treatment which will accomplish levels of
treatment substantially higher than that presently attained.
          Supplementing the program of the Sanitary District,
the City of Minneapolis has instituted Independent programs
which have benefited long-range water pollution control
objectives.  The city's program of replacing the original
combined sewer system with separate storm and sanitary
sewers has substantially reduced overflow of untreated sewage
to the river during times of rainfall and runoff.  Over the
years, approximately $22 million has been expended on this
storm water separation program.  An accelerated program has
been scheduled for the future years, and these projects are
being constructed as rapidly as financial resources permit.
          The September I960 report of the engineering con-
sultants to the Sanitary District (Volume Three, Page 12-4)
shows that of the 27,710 acres of sewered area in the City
of Minneapolis, 15,847 acres (or over 5756) was served by
separate sanitary and storm sewers.  Work completed since
this report was made, together with projects now being

-------
                                                     396



                    G. G Inner



built, will add approximately 4,000 acres served by separate



sewers. Increasing to over 70$ the total area  having com-



pletely separated sewers.  The conversion of substantial



areas of Minneapolis from a combined system to separate



sewers for storm water and sanitary sewerage has made it



possible for Minneapolis to convey through its system of



trunk sewers and interceptors the sanitary sewage from sur-



rounding suburban communities.  At the present time there are



twenty-seven suburbs and agencies that use or have made



arrangements to use the Minneapolis sewer system.



          In the spring of 1962 the State of Minnesota,



through its Water Pollution Control Commission and State



Board of Health, held formal hearings proposing "classifica-



tion of the Mississippi River and Its tributaries between



the Rum River and the St. Croix River and for the establish-



ment of Pollution Standards therefor."  The City Council



authorized introduction of a statement favoring the proposed



classification.  Standards proposed for the section between



the Rum River and St. Anthony Falls are essential to protect



the water supply of Minneapolis, St. Paul and the suburban



areas presently being served by the Minneapolis and Saint



Paul Water plants.  The standards proposed for the section



between St. Anthony Palls and the Minneapolis-Saint Paul

-------
                                                     397
                    G. GInner

Sanitary Dlstriot plant "will when adopted and enforced be

of great benefit to the residents of the Metropolitan Area."

This stand, by the City of Minneapolis, in favor of the

classifioat ion and regulation of these two sections of the

Mississippi River waa taken with full knowledge and under-

standing of the obligations it was assuming.

          In summary, the City of Minneapolis believes that

its record of past accomplishments, its policy of continuing

as rapidly as possible its storm sewer program, its coopera-

tion with the State Legislature, the State Board of Health,

and the Water Pollution Control Commission and suburban

communities is a commendable one and indicates clearly its

determination to Improve the quality of the water In the

river.

                             CITY OP MINNEAPOLIS

                      By     Thomas A. Thompson (Signed)

                             Thomas A. Thompson,

                             Director of Public Works



                      By     Keith M. Stidd (Signed)

                             Keith M. Stidd,

                             City Attorney

-------
                       A.  V.  Dienhart                39
            MR. STEIN:  Thank you.



            Are there any comments  or questions?



            (No response. )



            MR. STEIN:  If not,  thank you very much.



            Mr. Smith?



            MR. SMITH:  The next statement Is from the



Northern States Power Company.








            STATEMENT OP ARTHUR V.  DIENHART, MANAGER



            OP ENGINEERING, NORTHERN STATES POWER



                 COMPANY, MINNEAPOLIS, MINNESOTA








            MR. DIENHART:  My name  is Arthur Dienhart and I



am the Manager of Engineering at the Northern States Power



Company, with headquarters in Minneapolis.



            I will read for the record a statement on behalf



of the Northern States Power Company.  The statement is as



follows:



            Convinced that water is a vitally important



natural resource and asset in our service area, Northern




States Power Company sincerely supports the statutory policy



of Minnesota,  "to provide for the prevention, control, and



abatement of pollution of all waters of the State, so far as




feasible and practicable, in furtherance of conservation of

-------
                                                      399
                   A. V. Dlenhart
such waters and protection of the public health and in
furtherance of the development of the economic welfare of
the State."  We are further convinced that at the present
level of technology such State policy can be fully compatible
with the obligation of Northern States Power Company to
meet the rapidly growing power requirements of the public.
          For this reason we supported the actions of
the Minnesota Water Pollution Control Commission in its
adoption of classifications and standards for reaches of
the Mississippi and Minnesota Rivers In the vicinity of the
Minneapolis-St. Paul metropolitan area and its proposal of
procedures for establishing such classifications and
standards State-wide.  We firmly believe that specific
guidelines for the regulation of the use of waters by In-
dustry Is an essential aid to Industrial planning, particu-
larly to a public industry such as Northern States Power
Company, because construction of new facilities must be
completed on a schedule to meet public requirements.
          The aforesaid action of the State Commission
covers to a large extent the same waters covered by the
recommendations of this conference.  Located on these
waters are the three major generating stations of Northern
States Power Company, namely, our Riverside plant, High

-------
                                                      400
                   A. V. Dlenhart

Bridge plant and Black Dog plant, constituting a total

generating capacity of about 1.5 million kw.  In connection

with such Commission action we have conducted, in coopera-

tion with the Commission's staff, a comprehensive series

of river temperature surveys and have filed with the Com-

mission the results of those studies.  Studies have also

been made of other plant effluents to determine if the

standards were being met.  All our plants are operated in

accordance with the applicable State standards.  This in-

formation has also been made available to Federal agencies

to assist in studies for this conference.

          We have reviewed the recommendations of this

conference and note that a specific recommendation has been

made that Northern States Power Company utilize the existing

cooling pond at its Black Dog plant to its fullest extent

during the summer at stream flows less than 1,500 cfs and

that during these periods the thermal addition to the

Minnesota River should not exceed 13.5 billion BTU per day.

Northern States Power Company will comply with this recom-

mendation in the operation of its Black Dog plant.

          Northern States Power Company's policy of full

cooperation to control water pollution not only involves

proper operation of existing generating plants but the

design and construction of future plants which will in-

-------
                                                       401
                    A. V. Dieniiart

corporate modern facilities for the prevention of water

pollution.

          To meet its growing power requirements Northern

States Power Company is presently constructing its King

plant at Oak Park Heights, Minnesota, on the St. Croix

River and its Monticello plant at Monticello, Minnesota,

on the Mississippi River.  These large modern plants will

commence operation in 1968 and 1970, respectively*  We

also recently announced plans to construct for 1972 opera-

tion a large plant on Prairie Island, upstream from Red

Wing, Minnesota, on the Mississippi River.  In addition,

we also have plans to purchase a site for a future generating

plant above Carver, Minnesota, on the Minnesota River in

Scott County.  We have held numerous conferences and dis-

cussions with the staffs of the Minnesota Water Pollution

Control Commission and the Department of Conservation in

order to assure that the -^ sign criteria of these plants

fully comply with the regulatory objectives of these State

agencies,

          To assist in the design of the King plant, the

St. Anthony Falls Hydraulic Laboratory of the University

of Minnesota was retained to construct a model of the river

and study the thermal effects of the proposed plant upon

the river.  As a result of this study, a submerged intake

-------
                                                      402
                   A. V. DIenhart

and a wide shallow discharge were designed to confine the

cooling water discharges to a shallow layer over the

surface of the river.  A hold-up pond is being constructed

at that plant to retain ash transport water and demineralizer

effluents for settling and neutralization.

          After extensive public hearings, the Minnesota

agencies Issued permits for the appropriation and discharge

of water from the King plant.  These permits require cooling

towers in order to limit the temperature of the cooling

water discharges.  The entire coal storage area will be

enclosed by a dike and its bottom will be covered with

impervious material for the purpose of preventing the

direct run-off of rain water from the coal area into the

river or ground.  The permits provide for pre and post

operational monitoring of environmental conditions which

include extensive studies of river temperatures, algae,

macro invertebrates, fish, and chemical constituents of

the river.  The other future plants of Northern States Power

Company will be designed and constructed with equal care

for the prevention of water pollution.

          Northern States Power Company has entered into a

positive program of plant operation and costly construction

in order to fully cooperate with the efforts of governmental

agencies to protect the waters of the midwest.

-------
                                                       403
                   A. V. Dienhart
                     Respectfully submitted,

                     (Signed)  D. F. MoElroy

                     Vioe President - Engineering



          That concludes the statement.  Copies have been

given to Mr. Lyle Smith for submittal to the formal record

-------
                                                       404
                       A. V. Dienhart
            MR. STEIN:  Are there any comments or questions?

            (No response. )

            MR. STEIN:  Well, we have been hearing a lot

about the Northern States  Power Company.   I was up at Still-

water and am kind of familiar with that controversy.

            I see you have several devices, cooling towers,

and so forth, and so on?

            MR. DIENHART:   Yes, sir.

            MR. STEIN:  How much above the water temperature

that is taken in will the water be when you discharge it,  or

will it be pretty close?

            MR. DIENHART:   This will vary.  The permit from

the State requires that at the point of discharge to the lake,

the temperature shall not exceed 86 degrees, and that is the

basis upon which the cooling towers and the discharge

structures were designed.

            The degree of rise then would vary over the year,

depending, of course, upon the temperature of the incoming

water.

            MR. STEIN:  But you have a maximum discharge of

86 degrees?

            MR. DIENHART:  That is correct.

            MR. STEIN:  Is that at the point of discharge, or

do you have a mixing  zone?

-------
                                                        405





                       A. V. Dienhart



            MR. DIENHART:  That is at the point where the



discharge enters the lake.  There is no mixing zone provided



in the permit.



            MR. STEIN:  Thank you.



            Are there any further questions?



            (No response. )




            MR. STEIN:  Thank you very much.



            Mr. Smith?



            MR. SMITH:  Next I would like to call on the



Minneapolis-St. Paul Sanitary District.








            STATEMENT OP KERWIN L. MICK, CHIEF



            ENGINEER AND SUPERINTENDENT, MINNEAPOLIS-



            ST. PAUL SANITARY DISTRICT, MINNEAPOLIS,



                          MINNESOTA



            MR. MICK:  Mr. Chairman, Conferees:



            My name is Kerwin L. Mick, Chief Engineer and



Superintendent for the Minneapolis-St. Paul Sanitary District.



            The District feels that the Federal survey was a



very valuable project and it furnished a great deal of valuable



data for use in controlling the pollution of the waters in



this area.



            We were somewhat disappointed in the publicity,

-------
                                                        406



                       K. L. Mick



you might say, that resulted from the summary report of the



survey, because there was no mention of any accomplishments



towards the solution of these problems on the part of the




District, or, for that matter, the Water Pollution Control



Commission.



            Those points have already been brought out.  We



felt that that was a mistake.  They should have at least



recognized what progress has been made.  The implication has



been created as a result of the publications in the press,



and has given the public the Impression, that nothing has been



done, and the facts do not support this impression.



            We have here a nine-page statement and a three-



page summary that was approved by our board of trustees at



the meeting on February 27th.  Copies of this statement have



been furnished to the conferees through the State Water Pollu-



tion Control Commission, and unless the conferees wish, I



will read the summary only, unless they wish me to read the



complete report.



            MR. STEIN:  Just the summary, if you would.



            By the way, we are not cutting you off.  If you



feel you want to read the entire report, the rostrum is yours.



            MR. MICK;  I am assuming that the conferees will



consider the complete report.



            MR. STEINs  Yes, and they will not just accept

-------
                                                          407
                       K. L. Mick
the summary.  If you wish, the entire report will appear in
the record as if read.
            MR. MICK:  Thank you.
      MINNEAPOLIS-SAINT PAUL SANITARY DISTRICT
                  STATEMENT TO THE
  FEDERAL WATER POLLUTION CONTROL ADMINISTRATION

           U. S. DEPARTMENT OP INTERIOR
                 February 27, 1967


INTRODUCTION


            The Minneapolis-Saint Paul Sanitary District has
a direct and predominant interest in the Federal Water Pollu-
tion Control Administration report on "Summary and Pollution
Abatement Recommendations."  The District's concern in this
area is a twofold one] one phase is a responsibility to control
and abate water pollution through the provision and operation
of treatment works; and the other is a responsibility to provide
economical sewage service to more than a million customers.
            As in the past, the District endorses reasonable
river water quality objectives which are commensurate with
downriver water uses.  On the other hand, the District opposes
water quality standards and the consequent higher waste water
treatment requirements which fail to consider the coat of

-------
                                                         408
                   K. L. Mick


treatment in terms of the benefits attained.  The District


urges a reasonable and realistic balance between the cost of


treatment and the results of treatment.




LIMITATION OP REVIEW OF REPORT




           The Minneapolis-Saint Paul Sanitary District has


given preliminary review to the "Summary and Pollution Abate-


ment Recommendations" of the Federal Water Pollution Control


Administration.  Because of the fact that copies of the com-


plete report were not made available and a very limited time


was allowed for the evaluation of the Summary Recommendations,


the District has been unable to fully determine the impact of


these recomwendations upon the interests of the District.


Accordingly, the District requests a postponement or extension


of this conference to permit a thorough assessment of the im-


mediate and long range effect.  A recess of 60 to 90 days is


necessary following the availability of the complete report


for the purpose of a proper evaluation.




GENERAL PROGRESS TOWARD POLLUTION ABATEMENT




           The Federal Water Pollution Control Administration


report gives the impression that the Minneapolis-Saint Paul


Sanitary District has no active program for the abatement of

-------
                                                        409
                  K. L  Mick

pollution.  The fact is that the District has made real and

significant progress toward the accomplishment of a pollution

control program on the Mississippi River which is compatible

with the recommendations of the Federal Water Pollution Control

Administration report.

           Comprehensive Investigations and studies have been

conducted of the sewage works and water pollution problems.

Moreover, the District has undertaken a vast and costly program

of expansion of the main treatment plant at a total cost in

excess of $27.0 million, of which $13.5 million is already

completed and in partial operation.  The District has not

dodged its responsibilities in the pollution abatement program.

Instead, it has proceeded on its own initiative without waiting

for threats of action by the State pollution control agency

and without assurance of financial assistance through Federal

grants.

           Nor is this approach one of recent precedent as

far as Minneapolis and St. Paul are concerned.  In 1933, the

District and the Twin Cities placed in operation a 52 mile

system of Interceptor sewers and a primary treatment with a

total cost of $15.7 million.  The plant was the first treat-

ment plant serving a major population center on the Mississippi,

Missouri and Ohio Rivers.  Nearly thirty years later, several

-------
                                                       4 09-A



                   K. L. Mick



of the major cities on the Mississippi River and Missouri



River are only now installing primary treatment facilities.



Over this same period, the District has spent an amount of



$21.3 million for operation and maintenance of its treatment




plant.








STUDIES AND INVESTIGATIONS BY MSSD

-------
                                                  409-B



                    K. L. Mick



          With an awareness of the potential sanitation



and water pollution problems, the Board of Trustees of



the Minneapolis-Saint Paul Sanitary District authorized



in 1956 an extensive five year program of research and



investigation of the metropolitan area's sewage works re-



quirements.



          During the period from 1956 to 1961, at a cost



of one-half million dollars, studies were conducted to



determine the most economical and satisfactory solution



to the sewage problem of the metropolitan area.  In addi-



tion to the development of a long-range sewage works plan,



several related aspects were investigated which had a



direct and significant bearing upon the recommended solu-



tion.  Two reports involved a statistical summary of the



past characteristics of the Mississippi and Minnesota



Rivers, the capacity of the rivers to assimilate pollution,



and the necessary degree of treatment to maintain dissolved



oxygen levels or to meet certain river water quality ob-



jectives.  Another report presented the basic engineering



plans and estimates of cost of alternate sewage works



projects for an extensively enlarged area of service as



well as an evaluation of the adequacy of the existing inter-



ceptor sewer system to convey flows under anticipated future



conditions.

-------
                                                       410
                    K. L. Mick

          Three separate reports were prepared relative to

the apportionment, allocation and distribution of the costs

of the sewage works projects among the component municipali-

ties.

          Thirty-six months of pilot plant and large scale

demonstration plant tests were conducted under field condi-

tions of various treatment processes which could be utilized

in the expansion of main treatment works.

          Another of the engineering reports covered the

establishment of a treatment plant design basis and recom-

mendations for the incremental enlargement of the main

sewage treatment plant at the Pig's Eye Lake site.



SEWAGE TREATMENT PLANT EXPANSION



          Upon the completion of preliminary Investigation

of sewage treatment requirements, the Minneapolis-Saint

Paul Sanitary District Board of Trustees authorized in 1961

a major expansion program of the Pig's Eye Lake Sewage

Treatment Plant to accomplish secondary treatment.  The

plant expansion was designed to serve the two central

cities and the 24 suburbs served by the system (in 1962)

based upon this service area's anticipated growth and

-------
                                                      411
                    K. L. Mick

development to the year 1980.  The general design basis

was as follows:

Type of Prooess                   - High-Rate Activated Sludge

Sewered Population                - 1,545,000 Persons

Industrial Population Equivalent  - 1,065,000 Persons

Total Population Equivalent       - 2,610,000 Persons

Average Annual Flow Thru Plant    - 218 million gallons per day

Removal of Suspended Solids       - 85 percent

Removal of Pollutlonal Load With
 Basic Treatment Prooess (BOD)    - 75 percent

Control of Effect of Pollutlonal
 Load by Supplemental Methods     - As required to meet river
                                    water quality standards

Destruction of Bacteria as
 Measured by Conform Indicator
 Organisms                        - 99 percent



          The secondary treatment facilities form one part

of a long-range plan for the Incremental expansion of the

District plant.  The site and arrangement of the treatment

units has been adapted for the future expansion of the plant

to a capacity of more than 400 million gallons per day on

the basis of the High-Rate Activated Sludge Process or the

Step Aeration Prooess.

          At the time of the design of the treatment plant

expansion, no river water standards existed for the

-------
                                                        412
                    K. L. Mick

Mississippi River In the vicinity of Minneapolis and St.

Paul.  Accordingly, the design was based upon a statement

of requirements issued by the Minnesota State Board of

Health In 1928.  The statement provided essentially that

the pollution of the river should be restricted to such an

extent that the public health hazard would be reduced to a

minimum, that the health of livestock: would not be endangered,

that the public nuisance would be eliminated, and that fish

life in the river, at least below the mouth of the St. Crolx,

would not be jeopardized.

          Classification and standards for the Mississippi

River subsequently adopted by the Minnesota Water Pollution

Control Commission in March of 1963* after the commencement

of the construction of the treatment plant expansion, pro-

vided for the maintenance of certain minimum dissolved

oxygen levels in the river water and a restriction upon the

concentrations of other contaminants.  Compliance with

these standards will be accomplished with the High-Rate

Activated Sludge process plant as designed, with the oc-

casional employment of supplemental methods.  Supplemental

methods which have been investigated and appear promising

include effluent aeration, river aeration, and effluent

chlorinatlon.

-------
                                                      413
                    K.  L. Mick

TREATMENT  PLANT CONSTRUCTION



           Construction  of the plant addition began  In 1962

with  the award of a oontraot for the relocation of  more

than  one mile of the main line tracks of the Chicago Great

Western Railway Company in order to provide a site  for the

secondary  treatment works.  Twenty-six more construction

contracts  have been awarded since the first one, totaling

over  $24.0 million.  Of the contracts which have been

awarded, twenty-two are essentially completed, including

the major  contracts for secondary aeration and final sedi-

mentation  tanks and the air compression system.

           Listed below  are the major contracts, the ap-

proximate  amounts, and  the present stage of completion of

the plant  expansion program.


                                    Approximate  Percent
Project                             Cost	  Completion

Railroad Relocation                 $  109,000       100

Site Clearing and Demolition           145,000       100

Garage and Warehouse                   187,000       100

Aeration Compressor Equipment          395/000       100

Dike Construction                      199,000       100

Aeration Tanks-Gallery-Final Tanks   8,263,000       100

Diesel Electric Generator               85,000       100

-------
                                                   414
                    K. L. Miok
                                     Approximate  Percent
Project                              Cost.	  Completion

Boiler Room and Shop Addition         $  414,000     100

Compressor Building                    2,031,000     100

Administration Building                  566,000     130

Instrumentation and Control System
          (Ph.l)                         216,000     100

Sludge Vacuum Filtration Equipment       700,000      75

Sludge Incineration Equipment          2,122,000      85

Filtration and Incineration Building   5,036,000      75

Chlorine Contact Channel                 312,000     100

Sludge Concentration Tanks               343,000     100

Screen and Grit Chamber Modifications    839*000      50

Sludge Thickening Tanks                2,202,000      10

Miscellaneous                            100,000     100

              Total                  $24,264,000



          The progress that the Minneapolis-Saint Paul

Sanitary District has made is evident from the above tabula-

tion.  Sludge disposal works are scheduled for completion in

the fall of 1967.  With the completion of the remaining

construction projects, the construction cost Is estimated

at approximately $27.0 million.

-------
                                                        415
                    K. L. Mick

TREATMENT PLANT OPERATION



          Secondary treatment facilities were initially

placed in operation in April 1966 and are presently in

partial operation pending completion of the enlarged sludge

disposal works.  During the summer of 1966, the secondary

plant was operated over a three-month period at removal

efficiencies in excess of the design basis.  The limited

operation of the secondary facilities to date has demon-*

strated that the new works are fully capable of treatment

in compliance with the design removals and that the sewage

and Industrial wastes of this metropolitan area are amenable

to treatment by either the High-Rate or Conventional

Activated Sludge Process.



COMMENTS ON GENERAL RECOMMENDATIONS



          Relative to the classification and water uses

proposed in Item No. 2 of the General Recommendations,

Enhancement of Water Quality, for the segment of the

Mississippi River downstream from the Minneapolis-Saint

Paul Sanitary District treatment plant, the District's

position is one of limited concurrence.  Water uses

enumerated for this section of the river correspond in

-------
                                                        416
                     K. L. Mick

principle to the classification and Standards of the State

of Minnesota Water Pollution Control Commission.  The State

designation of water uses are those which may be realistically

obtained downriver from a major center of population and in-

dustrial activity.

            To achieve and maintain the enhancement of water

quality and the proposed water uses for the Mississippi River

between the District plant and Lock and Dam No. 2, the District

endorses the prevailing Standards of the State of Minnesota

Water Pollution Control Commission as adopted in 1963 and

opposes the more restrictive Federal Water Pollution Control

Administration recommendations.  The existing State standards

are reasonable, adequate, and consistent with present and

possible future downstream water uses.

            Further, the District urges the extension of the

zone of lower DO requirements downstream from Lock and Dam No.

2 to the mouth of the St. Croix River.

            Item No. 3 of the General Recommendations, Treatment

of Municipal Wastes, establishes a minimum level of treatment

efficiency for all plants regardless of their location or the

concentration or character of the influent waste.

            In the Minneapolis-Saint Paul Metropolitan Area

situation, where major rivers course through the highly populated

-------
                                                        417



                      K. L. Mick



areas, it is only reasonable that a lower level of treatment



be required at a plant site downstream from the center of



population.  Imposing a uniform level of treatment, as measured



by the conventional indices, for all plant locations falls to




recognize the significance of the Inability of the secondary



biological treatment processes to remove various of the newer



chemical contaminants.




            Implementation of this restrictive feature of the



recommendations will saddle the Minneapolis-Saint Paul Sanitary



District with the financial burden of another expansion of



the main treatment plant before it is necessary.  A preliminary



investigation indicates that to meet this effluent quality on



a continuous basis will necessitate the employment of the



Step Aeration Process at the District treatment plant.  An



additional expenditure of approximately $10.0 million will be



required for the first phase of these treatment and sludge



disposal works, based upon a design period and loading which



corresponds with the plant expansion presently underway.  In



addition to the large capital cost involved, higher operating



costs will be incurred to the extent of $300,000 per year.



            Adoption of this measure precludes the employment



of supplementary methods of treatment such as heavy chlorina-



tion and aeration of the river to restore oxygen resources,



which our studies have shown to be decidedly more economical

-------
                                                       418
                    K. L. Mick
than conventional processes to meet short duration treatment
requirements.
            More than one interpretation can be made of the
intent of the General Recommendations relative to the appli-
cation of the coliform guide value of 5,000 per 100 ml
required by Guide B.  On the basis of the wording maximum
concentration "for any one sample," the proposed limitation
is unreasonably restrictive and actual compliance would be
virtually Impossible.  River water upstream from Minneapolis
at the water intakes does not consistently meet this require-
ment.  Obviously, the Intent of the report is "average" con-
centrations as stated in the case of Guide C - Source of
Water Supply.
            Chlorination on a year around basis as included
in the report recommendations is not consistent with the
stated river water uses of limited body contact recreational
activities and commercial shipping.  Both of these activities
are limited by the climate and the resulting ice cover to no
more than one-half of the year.  Chlorination at the heavy
dosage required to maintain the coliform Guide B level during
winter months causes a substantial expenditure toward pollu-
tion abatement without accomplishment of any real benefit.
            The cost of effluent disinfection is nearly

-------
                                                      419



                   K. L. Mick



proportional to the duration of its employment.  Our



estimate is that the continuous chlorination cost will be



approximately $360,000 per year while the cost of four



months of chlorination will be approximately $150,000.  It



is the Minneapolis-Saint Paul Sanitary District"s position



that the expenditure for chlorination outside of the recrea-



tional season is not justified in terms of the benefits to



downriver users.  Chlorination of the plant effluent to



these low levels of coliform would be negated by overflows



from the combined sewer system at times of heavy rainfall.



Even with complete separation of the sewers, there will be



heavy coliform contaminations from the runoff discharged



from the storm sewers.








COMMENTS ON SPECIFIC RECOMMENDATIONS - MISSISSIPPI RIVER








          The Minneapolis-Saint Paul Sanitary District is



definitely opposed to this three sentence paragraph because



of its implications and effect on the best and most economi-



cal solution of this Metropolitan Area problem.  It relates



to conditions in the Hasting's pool, and recommends a



minimum dissolved oxygen level of 3.0 mg/1 under stated mini-



mum discharges of the river in this section.  The paragraph

-------
                                                      420
                   K. L. Mick


of the recommendations continues - "To attain this,  combined


wastes loads from these sources should not exceed 68,500


pounds/day of 5 day BOD".  A maximum suspended solids


loading of 85,5°° pounds/day is also recommended. The


purpose of the inclusion of this paragraph appears princi-


pally to be related to the maintenance of dissolved  oxygen


levels in this pool.


          The effect of this provision is to require a


higher degree of treatment in this section of the river than


in other reaches.  For example, a minimum of 80 percent BOD


and suspended solids removal is required for other sections,


but the limitation of 68,500 pounds/day of 5 day BOD (equal


to 400,000 population equivalent) would require a BOD re-


moval of 90 percent in 1980 and 94 percent In the year 2000.


This section of the river by its very nature, downstream


from the population center and flowing through highly


industrialized areas, should allow for a lower quality of


water when compared to other sections, as the present


Minnesota Water Pollution Control Commission's Standards


provide.


          The District requests the elimination of this


paragraph from the recommendations for the following


additional reasons:

-------
                                                  421



               K. L. Mick



1.  Whereas the quality standard of 3 mg/1 of dissolved



    oxygen under certain stated flows, and the 80 per-



    cent BOD removal are "judgment" selections, the



    stated allowable effluent pollutional limit of



    68,500 pounds of BOD per day (400,000 population



    equivalent) is a calculated value based on a large



    number of assumptions and technical uncertainties



    which go beyond the other standards and requirements,



    In addition to uncertainties in the mathematical



    calculations, assumptions had to be made in a number



    of factors which affect river assimilative capacity



    to arrive at this arbitrary number.  These include



    among others, temperature, DO and BOD levels of



    incoming rivers, channel depth, reaeratlon and



    deoxygenation constants and rates, river discharges,



    and water supply extractions.  Many of these are



    dependent on future decisions and actions of groups



    concerned with this problem.



2.  One of the assumptions that was made in the calcula-



    tions was that the plant effluents would contain



    zero dissolved oxygen.  This Is a very conservative



    assumption as shown by Progress Report 165-S pre-



    pared as part of University of Minnesota -

-------
                                                  422
               K. L. Mick:

    Minneapolis-Saint Paul Sanitary District cooperative

    research program.  This report shows that under

    summer conditions the existence of 4 mg/1 of DO

    in the plant effluents would Increase the assimila-

    tive capacity of the river at this point by 10 per-

    cent (7100 Ibs. of BOD = 42,000 population equiva-

    lent).  Effluent sampling has Indicated that 4 mg/1

    is a reasonable expectancy by natural means.  This

    could be augmented by mechanical aeration of the

    effluent to further Increase the receiving capacity,

    to values double the above if the effluent were

    saturated.  The above Is a significant item and

    shows the effect of but one factor on which assump-

    tions were made.

3.  The employment of this arbitrary "rule" completely

    negates the many auxiliary methods which are avail-

    able and which have been used in the U. S. and

    foreign countries to augment DO resources.  In

    addition to "in-plant" effluent aeration and chlorin-

    atlon for BOD removal and retardation, the river's

    resources can be augmented by river aeration at

    hydro-plants, mechanical surface aeration and aera-

    tion at dams by low flow augmentation.  Many of

    these methods can accomplish the same objective-

-------
                                                  423
               K. L. Mick

    maintaining minimum DO levels at the critical

    point - much more economically than the seemingly

    simple expedient of requiring a higher degree of

    treatment.

4.  The report refers only to Minneapolis-Saint Paul

    Sanitary District and South Saint Paul effluents

    in setting the 400,000 population equivalent value.

    The only reference to other pollutional loads Is

    that the several lower industrial effluents to the

    Hast ing's pool are small (1 or 2 percent),,  This

    is not likely to be so in the future.  Are they

    to share in this allowable limit, or are they neg-

    lected as a pollutional element?

5.  A further question arises as to the application of

    the above limit in the apportionment of this assimi-

    lative capacity.  The present major industrial load

    is from an industry with a large seasonal variation

    in load, with usual low loads in August and Febru-

    ary.  Who now is going to apportion this capacity?

    The calculations to arrive at pollutional loads and

    assimilative capacity are based on average annual

    mass loads..  Growth, particularly of Industries

    which are a key to this pool, is time dependent.

6.  In the matter of this apportionment, the report does

-------
                                                  424
               K.  L.  Mick

    not oome to "grips" with the key economic  and

    legal question, i.e., are all users of this appor-

    tioned capacity to provide the same quality of

    effluent in mg/1  or are they to provide the same

    degree of treatment in percent?  The decision, in

    this case is of great importance.

7.  The Board of Trustees of the District and  its engin-

    eers have consistently held to the judgment that the

    best solution to  the water pollution problem of this

    Metropolitan Area was in collection and treatment

    at one or more plants downriver of the centers of

    population.  The  use of this arbitrary capacity

    limitation of 400,000 population equivalent, without

    provision for the use of augmenting alternatives,

    encourages those  who propose upriver plants, to

    the detriment of water quality through the centers

    of population.

8.  In conclusion it  IB recommended that this paragraph

    be stricken because It has no sound basis, is inde-

    fensible, and is likely to lead to protracted liti-

    gation.

-------
                                                       425



                       K. L. Mick








              SCHEDULE OP REMEDIAL PROGRAM








            Although not acknowledged in the FWPCA report,




the Minneapolis-Saint Paul Sanitary District began the remedi-



al program toward further control and abatement of pollution




in 1962 with the commencement of a $27 million program of



expansion at the Pig's Eye Lake treatment plant.   As indi-



cated previously in this statement, the facilities for the



High-Rate Activated Sludge Process secondary treatment are




completed and are in partial operation.  Construction is well



under way of the sludge disposal works which accompany the



expanded treatment units.



            While the secondary treatment plant expansion



has been fully utilized for test periods and the District is



assured that treatment will be accomplished at least equal to



the design basis, there has been no opportunity for an evalua-



tion of the effect of the much Improved levels of treatment




on the river water quality.  Until a complete evaluation is



made of the full plant performance, the necessity for further



expansion is not apparent.



            Based upon the accomplishments of the Minneapolis-



Saint Paul Sanitary District and in recognition of the status



of its plant expasion program, the District requests a

-------
                                                       426




                       K. L. Mick



modification to the Schedule of Remedial Program to permit



a full evaluation of the effect of new plant on the Mississippi



River before proceeding further with any additional improve-




ments.








SUMMARY



       1.  Introduction








            The Minneapolis-Saint Paul Sanitary District has



a direct and predominant interest in the Federal Water Pollu-




tion Control Administration report on "Summary and Pollution



Abatement Recommendations."  The District has both a



responsibility to control and abate water pollution through



the provision and operation of sewage treatment works and a



responsibility to provide economical sewage service to more



than one million customers.



            While the District endorses reasonable river



water quality standards which are commensurate with downriver




water uses, it opposes recommendations or standards which fail



to consider the cost of treatment in terras of the benefits



attained.








     2.  General Progress Toward Pollution Abatement

-------
                                                    427




                       K. L. Mick



            The PWPCA report gives the impression that the



District has no active program for the abatement of pollution.



The fact is that the District has made real and significant



progress toward the accomplishment of a pollution control




program which is compatible with the recommendations of the



PWPCA report.



            During the period from 1956 to 1961, at a cost of




one-half million dollars, comprehensive investigations and



studies were conducted by the District to determine the most



economical and satisfactory solution to the sewage problem



of the metropolitan area.




            In 1962, the District commenced the construction



of a $27 million program of expansion of the main treatment



plant to accomplish secondary treatment with the High-Rate



Activated Sludge Process.  Twenty-seven construction contracts



totaling over $24 million have been awarded.  Twenty-two



projects, at a cost of $13.5 million, including the secondary



aeration and final sedimentation tanks, are already completed



and in partial operation.




            Secondary treatment facilities were initially



placed in operation in April 1966 and are presently in partial



operation pending completion of enlarged sludge disposal



works.  The operation of the secondary facilities to date has



demonstrated that the new works are fully capable of treatment

-------
                                                        428



                       K. L.  Mick



in compliance with the design basis.



            These facts show that the District has not dodged



its responsibilities in the water pollution control program.



Instead, it has proceeded on a vast and costly program of



treatment plant expansion on its own initiative, without



waiting for threats of action by the State pollution control



agency and without assurance of financial assistance through



Federal grants.

-------
                                                      429
                       K. L. Mick

            I will say that the State Water Pollution

Control Commission has suggested that we should be thinking

about expanding the plant and studying it for the future, so

we did do that.  That was a verbal statement on their part.

We have also since received a Federal grant.  After applying

for three years in a row, we finally received a Federal grant

on the facility now under construction.

       3.  Comments on General Recommendations



            To achieve and maintain the enhancement of water

quality and the proposed water uses for the Mississippi River

between District plant and Lock and Dam No. 2, the District

endorses the prevailing Standards of the State Water Pollution

Control Commission as adopted in 1963 and opposes the more

restrictive FWPCA recommendations.  The existing State Standards

are reasonable, adequate, and consistent with present and

possible future downstream water uses.

            Now, I understand there is some question whether

these figures are going to mean anything from the discussion

this morning.  That shows the difficulty we have had in only

the two weeks that we have had this report, and only a summary

report.  It has been impossible to completely reevaluate the

impact of the Standards.

            Item No. 3 of the General Recommendations,

-------
                                                   430
                       K. L. Mick


Treatment of Municipal Wastes, establishes a minimum level


of treatment efficiency for all treatment plants,  regardless


of their location or the character of the influent wastes.


Implementation of this restrictive feature of the  recommenda-


tions will saddle the District with the financial  burden of


another expansion of the main treatment plant before it  is


necessary.  A preliminary investigation indicates  that to meet


this effluent quality on a continuous basis will necessitate


the employment of the Step Aeration Process at the District

treatment plant.  An additional expenditure of approximately


$10 million will be required for the first phase of these


treatment and sludge disposal works, based upon a  design


period and loading which corresponds with the plant expansion


presently under way.  In addition to the large capital costs


involved, higher operating costs will be incurred  to the extent


of $300,000 per year.


            Chlorination on a year-around basis as included


in the report recommendations is not consistent with the


stated river water uses of limited body contact recreational


activities and commercial shipping.  Both of these activities


are limited by the climate and the resulting ice cover to no


more than one-half of the year.  Chlorination at the heavy


dosage required to maintain the coliform Guide B level during


winter months will cause an extra expenditure of approximately

-------
                                                      431
                       K. L, Mick
$200,000 per year toward pollution abatement without accomplish-
ment of any real benefit.  There are no public waters to protect
below it.  It is the Minneapolis-Saint Paul Sanitary District's
position that the expenditure for chlorination outside of the
recreational season is not justified in terms of the benefits
to downriver users.


      4.  Comments on Specific Recommendations — Mississippi
          River.


            The District is definitely opposed to the Specific
Recommendations - Mississippi River, because of the implica-
tions and effect on the best and most economical solution to
this metropolitan area problem.  This provision of the recom-
mendations limits the combined waste load of the effluents of
the District and South Saint Paul treatment plants to 68,500
pounds/day of 5-day BOD and 85*500 pounds/day of suspended
solids.
            The effect of this provision is to require a higher
degree of treatment in the Hastings pool than in other up-
river reaches of the Mississippi River.  Instead, this lower
section of the river, downstream from the population center and
flowing through industrialized areas, should allow for a lower
quality of water.  Further, the employment of this arbitrary

-------
                                                       432
                       K. L. Mick
rule completely negates the many auxiliary methods that are

available to augment DO resources at less cost than conven-

tional treatment, and I should add, during periods of unusually

low flow.

            The Board of Trustees of the District and its

engineers have consistently held to the judgment that the best

solution to the water pollution problems of this metropolitan

area was in collection and treatment at one or more plants

downriver of the centers of population.  The use of this

capacity limitation encourages those who propose upriver treat-

ment plants, to the detriment of water quality through the

centers of population.

            In conclusion, it is recommended by the District

that this paragraph be stricken because it has no sound basis,

is indefensible, and is likely to lead to protracted litigation.

            5.  Schedule of Remedial Program


            Although not acknowledged in the PWPCA report,

the District began the remedial program toward further control

and abatement of pollution in 1962 with the commencement of

a $2? million program of expansion at the Pig's Eye Lake treat-

ment plant.  The facilities for the high-rate activated sludge

process  secondary treatment are completed and in  partial opera-

tion and construction is well under way of the accompanying

-------
                                                       433
                       K. L. Mick

sludge disposal works.

            Based upon the accomplishments of the Minneapolis-

Saint Paul Sanitary District and in recognition of the status

of the plant expansion program, the District requests a modi-

fication to the Schedule of Remedial Program to permit a full

evaluation of the effect of the new plant on the Mississippi

River before proceeding further with any additional improve-

ments.

            In other words, we would like to complete our

present plant expansion, evaluate its performance and its

effect on the river, and redetermine the many assumptions that

have been made on the river, such as the effect of effluent

on the river, so that we will then be in a better position to

know what we would have to do to comply with any further

requirements that may be established for the river standards.

            MR. STEIN:  Thank you, Mr. Mick.

            Are there any comments or questions?

            DR. JELATIS:  Mr. Chairman?

            MR. STEIN:  Yes, Dr. Jelatis.

            DR. JELATIS:  I feel that I have to comment on

this, because we have testified at previous hearings as being

from a downriver community, that we would like to see the

highest possible standards established and maintained in the

sections 01 the river above us which affect the river quality

-------
                                                     434

                       K. L. Mick
below the plant effluents all the way down into Lake Pepin.

            The Summary Report points out that the river

bottom conditions in Lake Pepin are exclusively organic sludge.

There is some sand aixed with the organic sludge in a portion

of the river — I believe it is near Lock and Dam No. 3 —

perhaps because there is more rapid river flow.

            Now, we very much appreciate the improved treatment

facilities that are being put in by the Minneapolis-Saint Paul

Sanitary District, but we cannot escape the feeling that these

facilities have always been put in on the basis of crisis, and

a little bit too late, not properly anticipating the future

demands.

            As to the statement of costs, what is the popula-

tion area served now by the Twin Cities Sanitary District, the

number of people?

            MR. MICK:  At present we have one and a quarter

million persons connected to the plant.

            DR. JELATIS:  I believe in the main report you

point out that the sewered population is about one and a half

million.  This is considering growth through I960?

            MR. MICK:  Yes.

            DR. JELATIS:  Well, just commenting on the statement

you make that it has proceeded on a vast and costly  program of

treatment plant expansion without financial assistance, this

is very fine, but when you consider this on a  per capita basis,

-------
                                                         435
                   K. L. Mick

$30 million even over one and a half million population is


about $20 per capita.

           MR. MICK:  We don't wish to make the point that

that is an excessive cost for our expansion.

           DR. JELATIS:  Well, I would just like to point out

that many smaller communities with much smaller populations of

10,000 to 20,000 have been spending up to $150 or $200 per

capita for construction of plants, and we feel that perhaps

until the per capita expenditures for sewage treatment are at

a higher level than what you propose, that it is not an

inordinate cost to a relatively affluent metropolitan district.

           MR. MICK:  Your figures of $150 to $250, I believe

were based on dollars per capita for plants in smaller towns,

probably including the sewer system.  If we included the sewer

system in the Twin Cities, the expenses per capita would be

somewhat similar.

           We do not really oppose the standards at all,

because it Is Just a question of whether the Federal or the

State are the least restrictive.  They are both compatible.

           Also, I would like to point out that the sludge

deposits that you have mentioned are the result of many years

of primary treatment only both in our plant and not much more

than that in the South St. Paul plant, and both our plant and

the South St. Paul people are planning extensive improvement,

-------
                                                     436
                       K. L. Mick

and will be required to make extensive improvements as a

result of this survey, so that we feel that as soon as our

plant goes into full operation and the South St.  Paul plant

completes their proposed program, it will no longer be

accumulating organic deposits.  It will take a few years to

get rid of them.

            However, I remember back when our primary plant

went into operation in 1938* there was an extensive sludge

deposit in the area of St.  Paul, and it had been  called a

cesspool by some.  It was not true.  It was not that bad, but

it was a cesspool before any treatment was installed at all.

We have motion pictures to prove that.  We have sludge coming

out of the river and the gas lifting the sludge deposits, but

that condition cleared up within one year after our primary

treatment went into operation, so you will not be bothered by

those sludge deposits for a long period of time after the

additional treatment is installed.

            DR. JELATIS:  Yes.  We understand certainly that

there has been improvement and are grateful for the improved

facility you are putting in, but I think there is also no

question that the assimilative capacity of the river does not

increase in keeping with population growth, and as the popula-

tion growth continues to expand, and it is projected in the

year 2000 there may be three million people in this area.

-------
                                                    437





                       K. L. Mick




            MR. MICK:  We recognize in the main body of this



statement that the requirements of the survey, at least, if



they are adopted by the conference, would require that we put




in 90 percent treatment by 1980 and 94 percent by the year 2000.



            DR. JELATISj  Thank you.



            MR. STEIN:  Are there any other comments or



questions?



            MR. WILSON:  Mr. Chairman?




            MR. STEIN:  Yes.



            MR. WILSON:  I would like to repeat something that



I said yesterday, and that is that provision for anticipation



of future population growth is going to depend on many things.



And this is primarily because with reference to the future



population growth of the seven-county metropolitan area, in



principle,Increases in that population are not taking place



within the central cities of St. Paul and Minneapolis, which



now compose the Minneapolis-St. Paul Sanitary District.



            The only authority that that District has for




taking care of the sewage of these rapidly expanding suburbs



is by contracts, and that is a very unsatisfactory method of



financing the construction of the very expensive interceptor



sewers and other works that must be provided for in advance



of the actual population growth in order to avoid future over-



loading.  For that reason, recognition must be given to the

-------
                                                      438
                       K. L. Mick
fact that the last three Legislatures have disregarded this
problem.
            Instead, the Legislature of 1961 created the North
Suburban Sanitary Sewer District within this metropolitan
area, composed of six communities north of the Twin Cities,
with a then population, I think, of nearly 60,000, which is
rapidly increasing.  The creation of this District within the
area that should have been included in an enlarged metropolitan
district has created many complications.
            This District has been literally a thorn in the
flesh of the Minnesota Water pollution Control Commission
(Laughter).  The first thing it did after its creation was
to contest the authority of the Minnesota Water Pollution
Control Commission and the State Board of Health, in which the
North Suburban District lost out.  The Court held that the
District was subject to the authority of the Minnesota Water
Pollution Control Commission, as well as the State Board of
Health, in the matter of requirements for compliance with the
construction of a sewage treatment plant and other facilities.
            The result of that was that the North Suburban
District proceeded with the construction of its local sewerage
system, for which there was extremely urgent and immediate
need, and nobody would quarrel with the importance of getting
ahead with that project as rapidly as possible.

-------
                                                      439
                       K. L. Mick
            The issue was precipitated later, as I have
already mentioned, over the standards established by the
Water Pollution Control Commission when the North Suburban
District wanted to construct a sewage treatment plant with
an outlet below the Minneapolis water intake on the St. Anthony
Palls pool, and that is what has tangled the Water Pollution
Control Commission up in litigation, now on the way to the
Supreme Court.  As I said before, it probably will take another
year to get a final decision.
            This is just an example of the way the Minnesota
Legislature has trifled and temporized with this program, in-
stead of doing what it should have done in 1961 in accordance
with the recommendations of both the Water Pollution Control
Commission and the Board of the Sanitary District, enlarging
the Sanitary District so that it could have dealt adequately
with these expansion programs.
            They delayed action on that, and action is still
being awaited at this session of the Legislature that will
provide an ultimate solution to the important problem that
Mayor Jelatis has called attention to — that is to say,
anticipating the future needs before a crisis occurs.
            MR. MICK:  I might further comment on Mr. Wilson's
remarks to the extent that when we proposed the design for the
plant expansion, the only authority we had was to serve the

-------
                                                           440
                   K. L. Mick


two central cities and the 24 suburbs that were actually under

contract at that time.


           Presently we have 39 under contract, and we still

have no authority to design any facilities.  The plant is

designed for 1980 to expect a load from those 24 suburbs.

We now have 39 connected to them.  We would have to expand


the plant presumably before 1980.

           MR, STEIN:  Thank you.  I have three comments.  The

first one I am going to make with trepidation, Mr.  Wilson.

I have been coming here for years and hearing about the need

for the Legislature to set up this central metropolitan

district, and I have followed some of the controversy, etc.

What I find here is the same kind of situation we have been

finding in recent years — five or six different bureaus


competing in a short legislative session.

           It seems to me, from an outsider's point of view

and having had a considerable amount of experience with State

Legislatures as well as Federal legislation, that if you are

going to get a bill like this through one of the first steps


you have to take is to get the vast majority of the people

behind one measure that they can agree on and let it go.


           With all of these bills before the Legislature on a

relatively complicated issue, I don't know that it is

-------
                   K. L. Mick



productive to put the blame on the Legislature.  What do



you get?  You go through another session where they are



adjourned, and we don't have the mechanism.



           My next comment on another field is, I would say,



Mr. Mick, that you have stated you don't know whether the



requirements that we would have or the ones that the State



has are more lenient or not; you did not get the report in



time; and then you say on this issue that getting the report



six months in advance wouldn't help resolve it.  What has to



be done is to have a computer arrangement with past records



put into a machine.



           It is not readily apparent which is the more re-



strictive, and that is what we hope we are going to do*  I



think you have analyzed the report, but this short time had



nothing to do with this analysis.  Unless you had all these



records and computer time, I don't think you would have come



up with the answer either.



           MR. MICK:  We did some computer work, too, on



that analogy, but we didn't have time to complete it.



           MR. STEIN:  Yes.  Now, I understand all your points,



but on one of those, what do you mean by the statement that



there are three methods now available to augment the dissolved



oxygen resources at less cost?



           MR. MICK:  You see, our river is rather — I don't

-------
                                                       442
                       K. L.  Mick
know whether it is unusual or not, but it has an extreme range
of flow, and we have some low flows that occur once in a long
time.
            MR. STEIN:  Yes.
            MR. MICK:  And to require a complete installation
of treatment, to take care of these extreme low flows, is much
more expensive than to provide some auxiliary mechanism that
you temporarily use.  You might call it a super-chlorination
of the effluent, which some data done for us by the University
of Minnesota in our research agreement with them indicated that
we could obtain about two parts per million BOD reduction for
every part of chlorine that we added, and that might tide us
over some of these critical low periods.
            Another method is direct aeration of the river, or
a dam, such as we have worked on, which I believe has been
mentioned here before, and aeration through hydraulic power
installations, and so forth.
            MR. STEIN:  I see what you mean.
            I might say, at least with the experience that I
have had throughout the country, the results of super-ehlorina-
tlon or aeration in a river have not been too successful.
            We do a fairly good job in the pulp and paper
industry with aeration in lagoons, but that aeration in the
river is kind of like putting bubbles in a fish tank.  They

-------
                                                       443
                       K. L. Mick
are dissipated.  In a few seconds they cone up.  Some people
have told us that we do more good by breaking the surface
tension and letting in surface oxygen than by putting air
into the river.
            So far we have not been very good at this kind of
thing.
            MR. MICK:  We have done some work on that in the
University on a pilot plant scale,
            I understand the Sanitary District of Chicago is
installing a number of aeration points like that.  They have
had it in their budget, anyway.
            MR. STEIN:  Well, you know, dealing with the
Chicago situation again, what you have is a real slack water
canal and, in effect, a lagoon.
            As I say, aeration has worked in a lagoon, but
when you deal with a river with a natural bottom and a flow,
this is part of the art I don't think we have mastered yet.
            MR. MICK:  It is the periods of extreme low flows
that I am speaking about.  The river above Hastings Dam is
practically like a lake at very low flows.
            MR. STEIN:  Thank you.
            Are there any comments or questions?
            MR. WILSON:  Mr. Chairman?
            MR. STEIN:  Yes, Mr. Wilson.

-------
                                                      444
                       K. L. Mick
            MR. WILSON:  I should like to add another word
in view of the Chairman's comments on the responsibility of
the Legislature.
            I think it is fair to say that the Minnesota
Water Pollution Control Commission has done its utmost to
establish and maintain, against attack, the highest standards
that can be justified on the facts for the section of the
river which is most important in this matter in this metro-
politan area.
            I think it is also fair to say that this
Minneapolis-St. Paul Sanitary District has done its utmost
within the limits of its financial and legal capacity.
            It would be utterly futile for the Minnesota Water
Pollution Control Commission, or, for that matter, the Federal
Water Pollution Control Agency, to issue any orders to this
Twin Cities Sanitary District to do any more than it has done,
because it would be beyond its financial and legal capacity.
            Perhaps the Federal agency might try to issue
orders to the Minnesota Legislature.  How far they would get
with that I do not know.
            But, as I said yesterday, the key log in this Jam
is in the lap of the Legislature.  There is no way to prevent
a multiplicity of bills.  Anyone who has legislative experience
at all knows that.  Every member of the Legislature, of which

-------
                                                     445
                       K. L. Mick

we have one of the largest in the country, is privileged to

introduce a bill on every subject.

            The features of these sanitary district bills

with respect to representation and financing are extremely

controversial, and the settlement of those controversies is

absolutely in the hands of the Legislature.

            Neither the Minnesota Water Pollution Control

Commission nor the board of trustees of the Sanitary District

can decide or settle those questions of who is to have

representation on the board of trustees of an enlarged Sanitary

District, or how that District is to be financed.

            Those questions are solely within the power of

the Legislature and that is where the responsibility lies.

            MR. STEIN:  Maybe we will let it stay there.

            Let me try this once again, Mr. Wilson.  I hope

I am going to be very short.

            I am not talking about orders to the Legislature.
As a matter of fact, this is one thing I think the statements

here can bear out, and the record will show who is making

the exhortation about the Legislature.  Nor did I talk about

any man or member of the Legislature having his authority

restricted in introducing a bill.

            What I am saying is that the Twin Cities area is

like any other city.  In order to get one of these districts

-------
                                                     446
                       K. L. Mick

through, you have to get a coalescing of the citizens of the

area around a specific proposal, complicated as it is.

            This was so in Chicago; it was so in Kansas City;

it was so in St. Louis; it was so in Seattle; and I suspect

before you get a viable district here along the lines you are

saying, this is so here.

            I know that the job of getting people together is

not an easy one, but this is a prerequisite, and the way to do

this is not by ordering anyone, but by convincing them.  It

seems to me what may be lacking in this area is a single plan

or bill where you have the majority of the people supporting

and recognizing that this is the bill that you want.

            I have found, in the last analysis, that the

public officials, including us, generally give the people about

what they want.

            Are there any further questions?

            (No response. )

            MR. STEIN:  If not, Mr, Smith, would you call for

your next statement?

            MR. SMITH:  I would like to call on the City of

South St. Paul.



            STATEMENT  OP  JOHN P. BADALICH,  CITY

            ENGINEER,  CITY  OP SOUTH ST. PAUL,  MINNESOTA

-------
                                                       44?
                       J. P. Badalich
            MR. BADALICH:  For the record, my name is John
Badalich, City Engineer, City of South St. Paul.
            Our purpose in appearing at this particular
conference is not to argue the merits or demerits of this
particular summary, but we would like to bring to the atten-
tion of the conferees the progress the City of South St.  Paul
has made in the past two years.
            Since the previous report of the City of South
St. Paul to the conferees of Minnesota, Wisconsin and the then
Federal Public Health Service at a similar pollution conference
held in St. Paul in February of 1964, the City of South St.
Paul has continually since that date recognized its responsi-
bility with respect to sewage collection and treatment by
initiating and completing detailed engineering studies for
further improvements to the sewerage system and the Municipal
Sewage Treatment Plant.  Following the completion of these
engineering studies and plans and specifications for stage
construction of these improvements, the city has also initiated
steps for immediate construction of these improvements which
will be brought out in further detail in this report.
            At this point, I would like to interject with
reference to some of the remarks of Mr. Wilson yesterday, and
also for the record, that the City of South St. Paul also on
its own initiative, back in 1940, constructed a municipal

-------
                                                     448
                       J. P. Badalich
sewage treatment plant for the treatment of municipal and
packing house wastes.   Thia was the year following the con-
struction of the Minneapolis-St. Paul Sanitary Plant.
            Regressing for a moment and after the completion
of a waste stabilization pond that further treated the
effluent from the main sewage treatment plant, which was
constructed in 1963* a very significant increase in the degree
of treatment was accomplished.
            Operating records from February 1963 through March
of 1966 showed that the South St. Paul Sewage Treatment Plant
processed approximately 12.7 million gallons of sewage daily,
consisting of an average flow of 14.15 wgd for weekdays, and
8.70 mgd for Sundays and holidays.
            The overall average removal in pounds of BOD was
increased to 84.3 percent.  The overall removal of suspended
solids was an average of 90 percent.  Prom these results it is
shown that an overall efficiency in our sewage treatment opera-
tion has increased well over 50 percent.  In BOD removal alone
through use of the stabilization pond, the BOD loading to the
river decreased in excess of 60 percent over the amount
previously discharged from the main plant.
            The Federal Water Pollution Control Administration
publication which we are reviewing this morning Indicates on
Table 2, based on data collected during the survey period from

-------
                                                    449



                    J. P. Badalloh



June 1964 to October 1965, that the South St. Paul Sewage



Treatment Plant showed a removal efficiency of 79 percent



in BOD and an 89 percent removal in total suspended solids.



          Data recorded just recently, following volumetric



reductions in sewage and greater overall efficiency at the



sewage treatment plant, indicated an average BOD removal of



87.2 percent and a suspended solid removal of 95.3 percent.



This data is attached to this report.



          On October 19* 1964, following several meetings



with the Minnesota Water Pollution Control Commission and



the engineering staff of the State Board of Health, the City



engaged the engineering firms of Banister Engineering of



St. Paul and Greeley & Hansen of Chicago, to make a prelimin-



ary study and report of the necessary improvements to the



municipal sewage treatment facilities of the City.  This



very complex report entitled "South St. Paul, Minnesota



Report of Sewerage and Sewage Treatment" was completed by



the aforementioned engineering firms on February 16, 1965.



This preliminary engineering report was presented to the



City Council, the MWPCC, and the packing industries for



their review and comment.



          This engineering report recommended (1) improve-



ments to the existing treatment facilities so as to provide



capacity for present and estimated future flows and organic

-------
                                                    450




                    J. P. Badalioh



loads; (2) recommended additional sewage treatment facili-



ties to meet effluent standards as set forth by the MWPCC;



(3) recommended sludge disposal facilities to provide sani-



tary and nuisance-free disposal of sewage solids and paunoh



manure; and (4) recommended improvements to the intercepting



sewer facilities so as to separate storm water runoff from



industrial sewage.  The estimated cost of these improvements



based on today's price index is $7*606,000.00.  After a



review of this report was made by all concerned, the MWPCG



at their March 26, 1965 meeting, commended the City of



South St. Paul on their progress on further attacking the



problem of water pollution.  The Commission at this time



indicated that the City begin preparation of final plans



and specifications for the proposed first stage improvements



and also suggested that we apply for a Federal grant under



Public Law 660 after July 6, 1965.



          In the meantime, this report was being thoroughly



studied by the packing house interests of the City and the



impact of this report would have on these industries being



the major contributor to our total sewage load.



          Following the review of this report by the major



wet industries, these industries immediately Initiated studies



on in-plant improvements In their own facilities in order to



reduce volume and strength of their wastes.  The effect of

-------
                                                      451
                    J. P. Badalioh
this report was such that In the period of a few weeks,
thru conservation of water within the packing house com-
plexes, a volumetric reduction of 2 million gallons per day
in sewage effluent was achieved, along with a significant
reduction in BOD.
          The industries also employed the firm of Toltz,
King, Duvall, Anderson and Associates of St. Paul (TKDA) to
make an engineering study as to the possibility of pre-
treatment of the packing house wastes and other in-plant
methods of reducing flow and strength of sewage discharged
from their facilities.
          It was therefore agreed by all concerned and also
by the Commission, in July of 1965, that the proposed studies
for methods of pre-treatment of packing house wastes by
TKDA would be completed in November of 1965.
          In the meantime, the City of South St. Paul on
June 25, 1965, made application to the MWPCC for a Federal
grant for sewage treatment Improvements under P.L. 660.
These improvements, totaling approximately 2.8 million
dollars, consisted of the construction of an additional
Interceptor sewer, lift station and first stage Improvements
at the sewage treatment plant, as outlined in the "Report
on Sewerage and Sewage Treatment, February 1965", by Greeley
& Hansen and Banister Engineering Company.

-------
                                                     452
                   J. P. Badalich
          Following the submission of this application to
the Commission, we were informed on August 25, 1965, by the
Commission that the final priority rating of our application
was No. 33 of 38 communities applying for Federal financial
assistance.  Only municipalities with priority ratings from
1 thru 18 would receive Federal grant.
          On or about February 15, 1966, the City received
from the industries their report entitled "Report on Waste
Water Plant Expansion for South St. Paul, Minnesota/1
prepared by the engineering firm of TKDA, which report was
forwarded to the Commission for review and comment.  Follow-
ing the receipt of the TKDA report and review by the City
and our consulting engineers, representatives of the City,
Including Mayor David G, Hardman and City Attorney Roger
Miller, met with the Commission on April 28, 1966, to dis-
cuss and formulate the City's program for first stage con-
struction of Improvements to the sewerage and waste treatment
facilities of the City.
          Following this meeting on April 28, 1966, the
Commission directed the City, by letter dated May 9, 1966,
to proceed under an adopted time schedule for the planning
and construction of the first stage Improvements, involving
construction of a new Industrial waste interceptor sewer
and additional units at the existing municipal sewage

-------
                                                    453
                   J. P. Badalich

treatment plant.

          Therefore, on May 16, 1966, the City Council, by

resolution, engaged the consulting engineering firms of

Greeley & Hansen of Chicago and the Banister Engineering

Company of St. Paul to prepare final plans and specifica-

tions for construction of these first stage improvements,

said plans and specifications to be completed on or before

December 1, 1966.

          Also after the receipt of the Commission's letter

of May 9, 1966, outlining their recommendations to the

City, the packing industries of the City undertook: a program

within their plants for reducing the volume and strength of

wastes discharged to the municipal treatment plant.  This

program is currently underway and results and tests have

shown a significant decrease in wastes being discharged from

the packing Industries.

          In the meantime, the City again applied to the
Commission on June 29, 1966 for Federal assistance under

P.L. 660.  The application was for construction of the

waste Interceptor sewer and first stage expansion at the

sewage treatment plant.

          The first stage improvements would consist of

constructing a new and separate interceptor of the same
capacity as the existing interceptor so as to convey all

-------
                   J. P. Badalich



packing house wastes to the sewage treatment plant for



treatment at all times.  There would be no by-passing of



these diluted industrial wastes to the river during periods



of storm water runoff.  The sewer construction would then



leave available in the existing interceptor sewer additional



capacity to receive approximately 5 times more storm water



runoff or combined sewage for conveyance to the sewage treat-



ment plant for treatment.  Along with this proposed Inter-



ceptor sewer, a 25 mgd capacity pumping station is also



being provided.



          The balance of the first stage improvements consists



of additions to the existing sewage treatment plant to Im-



prove the effectiveness of primary treatment, Increase the



hydraulic capacity of the plant and Improve the overall



reliability of our existing installation.  These first stage



improvements are estimated to cost approximately 2.5 million



dollars.



          On September 6, 1966, the City was Informed by



the Commission that the final priority rating of our appli-



cation was No. 16 of 35 communities that applied for Federal



assistance.  Only municipalities with priority ratings of



from 1 thru 10 would be certified for Federal grant.



          Following this turn-down for Federal assistance,



the City applied directly to the United States Department

-------
                                                     455
                   J. P. Badalloh

of the Interior, Federal Water Pollution Control Adminis-

tration (FWPCA) and the Department of Housing and Urban

Development, but were again turned down for Federal assis-

tance because our project was not approved and certified

by the State agency.

          Subsequent to this application, the City was in-

formed and encouraged by certain people in the FWPCA to make

application to the Federal Government for a demonstration

grant pursuant to P.L. 89-753* "Clean Water Restoration Act

of 1966,'" dated November 3* 1966.  The project contemplated

would encompass to a large extent our first stage improve-

ments and the interceptor sewer arid would demonstrate an

Improved method of controlling the discharge from sewers

which carry both storm waters and sewage.  This proposal is

currently being considered by the FWPCA.  The FWPCA is also

currently considering a federally sponsored program at the

South St. Paul Sewage Treatment Plant, under their grants

for research and development, relating to the effective use

of chemical treatment, or polymers, in treating heavy indus-

trial or packing house waste, domestic sewage and combined

storm-sanitary sewage.  Approval on this demonstration grant

is expected on or about March 15, 1967.

          I would like to observe also that it would then

determine the second stage Improvement, which would possibly

-------
                                                    456
                   J. P. Badalich
restrict the anaerobic digestion, but with the use of these
polymers we might be able to cut this expansion substantial-
ly.
          Backing up for a moment, the City just recently
reviewed the completed plans and specifications for this
first stage construction, prepared by our consulting engineers,
Greeley & Hansen of Chicago, Illinois and Banister Englneer-
ing Company of St. Paul.  The necessary revisions are being
made to these plans and specifications, following a confer-
ence of city personnel and the consulting engineers held on
Friday, February 3, 196?.
          At a special meeting of the City Council, held on
Monday, February 6, 1967 following their regular session,
the City Council was brought up to date on the progress and
planning of this first stage sewage treatment plant improve-
ment.  Also discussed were matters regarding the City's
proposed program with the Federal Water Pollution Control
Administration.  Following this discussion, the City Council
passed a resolution regarding the advertising of bids for
the construction of these first stage improvements, pending
approval of the plans and specifications by the MWPCC.
          The resolution of the City Council reads as
follows:
          "RESOLVED, that the City of South St. Paul transmit

-------
                                                     457
                   J. P. Badalloh

to the Water Pollution Control Commission plans and speci-
fications for construction of Phase No. 1 as previously
outlined to the Commission for review and recommendation.
          RESOLVED FURTHER, upon receipt of approval of
plans and specifications, the City shall advertise for bids
for the construction of the interceptor sewer portion and
subject to Grant approval by the Federal Water Pollution

Control Administration of the Department of the Interior of
pending Grant application, the City will undertake the con-
struction of the other items of Phase No. 1, subsequent to
the approval of the Grant, which approval is expected on or
about March 15, 1967,"
          Adopted by the City Council this 6th day of
February 1967.
                                    7 Yeas
                                    0 Nays
          Here again, I certainly think: from the foregoing
facts and figures, that the City of South St. Paul is one
unit of government that has clearly demonstrated its desire
to meet its needs and responsibility in respect to sewage
collection, treatment and disposal.
          On the matter of combined sewer overflow, the City
of South St. Paul, like the cities of St. Paul and Minnea-
polis, being one of the older municipalities in the

-------
                   J. P. Badalloh



metropolitan area, has a. combined sanitary and storm sewer



system remaining In approximately 55 percent of the City.



Since 1955 and to date, the City has expended in excess of



2.5 million dollars in construction of separate storm



sewers in an effort to eliminate the combined sewerage



system.



          As shown on Page 11 of the Summary report



referred to at this conference, a very substantial amount



of oxygen consuming contaminants and suspended solids are



being discharged annually to the Mississippi River because



of this overflow system.



          I previously indicated In this report the city's



immediate go-ahead on the construction of an interceptor



sewer to handle all Industrial wastes.  By the construction



of this interceptor sewer, this will eliminate completely all



bypassing of industrial sewage to the river during periods



of storm runoff and, in turn, afford additional capacity in



the existing Interceptor sewer for transporting approximately



5 times more combined sewage, consisting of only domestic



sanitary sewage and storm water to the sewage treatment plant



for treatment by sedimentation and chlorlnation0  It is



estimated that the amount of pollutants, both BOD and sus-



pended solids, now being discharged annually to the river



will be reduced 75 percent or more by this improvement.

-------
                                                   459
                   J. P. Badalich
          It should be pointed out here, that in the 27
years the City of South St. Paul has been treating sewage
we have worked in close harmony with the MWPCC and our big
brother 3^ miles upstream, the MSSD.  We have also just
recently experienced an excellent working relationship with
the FWPCA.  We certainly concur in the necessity for com-
bining the knowledge, experience and machinery of local,
state and Federal authorities in a unified effort in combat-
ing this problem of water pollution.
          In conclusion, I wish to thank the conferees for
affording the City of South St. Paul this opportunity of
being heard on this matter of water pollution and the part
we are contributing to its solution in that portion of the
Mississippi River affected by the treated discharge from our
sewage treatment plant facilities.
          Thank you.
          MR. STEIN:  Thank you very much.
          This appendix will appear in the record.
          MR. BADALICH:  Thank you.

-------
                                                     460
                   J. P. Badalich
           APPENDIX TO ANALYTICAL DATA
          The following indicates plant efficiency for
months of complete plant operation with anaerobic stabili-
zation pond from September 1965 - February 1967.
December 1965 - Pond drained for construction of the flood
                control dike construction.
August 1966   - Limited operation of pond.
December 1966 - Pond resumes complete operation.
                     (Killing Days)
September 1965
October 1965
November 1965
January 196?
February 196?
Average
Plant Influent
5 day BOD in
1000«s of Ibs.
137.2
141.2
146.9
135.2
120.4
136.2
Suspended
solids
Plant Effluent
5 day BOD in
1000 's of Ibs.
16.1
14.3
13.3
25.4
17.3
17.3
Suspended
solids
$ Reduction

88.2$
89.^
92.3$
81.3$
85.6$
87.2$

September  1965
October  1965
November 1965
January  1967
February 1-15>  1967
Average
1000's of Ibs.  1000's of Ibs.
    116.7            4.3
    122.2            5.1
    121.5            7.9
     90.4            3.9
     86.1            3.6
    107.4            5.0
96.6$
95.7#
93.4$
95.8$
95.9$
95.3$

-------
                                                     461
                     r, -

                  J. P. Badallch

                Set tie able       : Set tie able      % Reduction
                    solids            solids
                MlTl

September 1965

October 1965

November 1965

January 196?

February 1-15,1967

Average

*Refleots Fall turnover In pond but caused no increase In

BOD Indicating that this was stabilized solids.
Ml/L
13.2
17.4
14.4
15.2
167 13.9
14.8
Ml/L
Trace
.7*
1.4*
Trace
Trace
.4

99^
96.0$*
90. 0#*
99/#
99/$
97.4

-------
                                                      462
                       J. P.  Badalich
            MR. STEIN:  Are there any comments  or questions?
            MR. WILSON;  Mr. Chairman, I would  like to say
that I am glad to endorse Mr. Badalich's statement regarding
the enterprise of the City of South St.  Paul in joining
along with the cities of St. Paul and Minneapolis in proceed-
ing to construct the sewage treatment plant before there was
any Water Pollution Control Commission,  or before there was
any Federal Water Pollution Control Agency, largely in response
to the action that was taken by the State Board of Health in
urging them to get ahead with this job.
            Minnesota was fortunate in having the three largest
cities, along with the City of South St. Paul,  where we had
one of the very large sources of industrial waste, proceed on
their initiative in those early years, and it was of great
assistance to our Pollution Control Commission to point to
their example in getting the smaller ones to come along with
construction of the sewage treatment plants.
            Now, in later years, of course, the population
explosion has caught up with these large centers and greatly
intensified their problems, and I think this is evident from
what has been brought out at this hearing, that they are
proceeding with very great diligence in attempting to deal
with them.
            MR. STEIN:  Thank you, Mr. Wilson.

-------
                                                     463
                  Cenex, Inc., by G. Ginner
            Are there any further comments or questions?


            (No response. )


            MR. STEIN:  If not, thank you very much.


            Mr. Smith?



            MR. SMITH:  I would next like to call on Cenex,


Inc.



            Is there anyone here to read their statement?


            (No response.)


            MR. SMITH:  Mr. Ginner, would you read this


statement, please?






            STATEMENT OP CENEX, INC., READ BY MR.


            GARY GINNER, ENGINEER, MINNESOTA DEPART-


                      MENT OF HEALTH






            MR. OINNER:  STATEMENT TO FEDERAL WATER POLLUTION


CONTROL ADMINISTRATION.


            We have read the "Summary and Pollution Abatement


Recommendations for the Upper Mississippi River and Major


Tributaries" as prepared by the Federal Water Pollution


Control Administration — Twin Cities -- Upper Mississippi


River Project, with great interest.  This is a very compre-


hensive report and it is obvious that considerable effort and


time was expended in its preparation.  Because of the time

-------
                                                      464
               Cenex, Inc., by 0. dinner

involved we were particularly interested in making a state-

ment to advise you of the changes we have made since the data

was collected for this report.

            You will note that the data reports two samples

for Northwest Cooperative Mills, which, incidentally, is now

Cenex, Inc.  One sample was taken from the compositing pond

and the other was reported as pond leakage.  Since these samples

were taken, we have made some drastic changes in handling storm

runoff, snow melt, etc., through the compositing pond.

            The original construction of the compositing

pond had a common dike between it and the gypsum disposal

pond.  A new dike has been built parallel to this common dike

which in effect forms a continuation of the seepage trench

along the base of the west side of the gypsum pond.  This new

trench is continuous with the previously built trench on the

north side of the gypsum pond.  Equally as important, the new

dike isolates the compositing pond from gypsum pond seepage,

which prevents contamination of the storm runoff.

            A timber and earthen dam with two gated plastic

pipe  bypasses was constructed at the outflow weir of the

compositing pond to prevent flow to the river when the runoff

is not acceptable.  One gated line was installed to discharge

this water to the seepage trench if it is not suitable for

discharge to the river.

-------
                                                       465
               Cenex, Inc., by G. Oinner

            Water we are permitted to discharge to the river
such as cooling water, overflow from the fire water basin,

etc., is now piped to the outflow weir from the compositing

basin and continuously monitored by a recording pH meter

provided with alarms.  This piping is arranged so the flow

can be discharged to the compositing pond if for any reason

it should become unsuitable for discharge to the river.

            Our gypsum disposal pond is completely isolated

from seepage to the river and our compositing pond is now an
entirely closed system.

                                CENEX, INC.

                  /s/           L. B. Edsall

                                Technical Manager
            MR. STEIN:  Thank you.
            Are there any questions or comments?

            (No response. )
            MR. STEIN:  If not, thank you very much.

            Mr. Smith?
            MR. SMITH:  Next I would like to call on the

Village of Cottage Grove, Mr. Bonestroo.


            STATEMENT OP OTTO BONESTROO, CONSULTING

            ENGINEER, VILLAGE OP COTTAGE GROVE,

                        MINNESOTA

-------
                                                       466
                       0. Boneetroo


            MR. BONESTROO:  I am Otto Bonestroo, Consulting


Engineer.  Apparently the counsel isn't here today, so I will


read the statement that the Village of Cottage Grove has


prepared for the record.


            I think for the record it might be well to show


where we are situated (indicating).  This is a village


actually located below St. Paul Park.  It is not designated


on the map.


            The most critical segment of the Mississippi


River covered under the Federal study passes through the


Village of Cottage Grove.  The village has for some time been


aware that conditions of poor sewage treatment efficiency,


direct by-passing of raw sewage and combined sewer overflow,


existed upstream.  The full impact of the severity of the


problem has been emphasized in this latest report far beyond


that realized heretofore.  Additions of pollutants to the


river have been allowed above all reasonable limits and we


afe gravely concerned that measures be taken immediately to


improve this situation.  We are also concerned that improved


water quality be maintained in this and all other river seg-


ments under anticipated sewage effluent discharges, including


the tremendous future increases expected.


            We approve of and wholeheartedly applaud a program


whereby the river quality will be maintained above the minimum


standards proposed.  A very crucial aspect is the matter of

-------
                                                       467
                       0. Bonestroo
enforcing these standards, since the present conditions
obviously are violating present established standards on the
river.  It appears that the greatest concern for the river
quality downstream from the largest contributing points does
not emanate from the contributors themselves.  Monitoring of
the river quality to assure conformance with the standards
appears justified.
            Although the village considers the establishment
of the proposed minimum standards to be necessary, we feel
that this does not indicate an acceptable condition under
normal flows and operations.  In addition to the proposed
minimums, the highest concentrations of dissolved oxygen
obtainable by the continuous operation of all units of the
treatment facilities in the upstream portion of the river should
be maintained at all times.  There is no place in a pollution
abatement program for a decrease in treatment efficiency or
the unnecessary bypassing of sewage at any time, even though
the minimum pollution standards are being met.  It is our con-
tention, then, that the highest sewage treatment efficiencies
consistent with the practical limitations of treatment methods
should be required.
                            Respectfully submitted,
                            Mayor and Village Council
                            Village of Cottage Grove.

-------
                                                    468
                       0. Bonestroo
            I would like to point out also for the record
that Cottage Grove does have complete treatment.
            MR. STEIN:  What do you mean by that?
            MR. BONESTROO:  Activated sludge secondary.
            MR. STEIN:  Do you chlorinate your effluent?
            MR. BONESTROO:  Yes, they do.
            MR. STEIN:  All year  round?
            MR. BONESTROO:  As far as I am aware  of, yes.
            In addition to that, we are now making a compre-
hensive study on proposed expansion of the facilities to meet
the increase of population.
            MR. STEIN:  Well, I know you can't speak for
the Mayor, but as I read his philosophy here, it  seems to
me that this notion of St. Paul not wanting to chlorinate its
effluent during the winter months, and the view of the Village
of Cottage Grove to maintain the highest quality  of water
coming down at all times, may run into a little conflict.
            This is precisely the kind of thing I think the
conferees are going to have to wrestle with, and  we like to
have that brought out.
            Thank you very much.
            MR. BONESTROO:  You are welcome.
            MR. STEIN:  Are there any further comments or
questions?

-------
                                                            469
              MMM Company, by Q. Ginner


           (No response.)


           MR. STEIN:  If not, thank you very much.   Mr.  Smith.


           MR. SMITH:  The next statement Is of the  Minnesota


Mining and Manufacturing Company,  Mr.  Ginner?





           STATEMENT OP MINNESOTA MINING AND MANU-


           FACTURING COMPANY, CHEMOLITE PLANT,


           WASHINGTON COUNTY, MINNESOTA, READ BY


           GARY GINNER, ENGINEER, MINNESOTA DEPARTMENT


                        OP HEALTH





           MR. GINNER:


     STATEMENT REGARDING POLLUTION CONTROL FACILITIES


         MINNESOTA MINING AND MANUFACTURING COMPANY


                      CHEMOLITE PLANT


                WASHINGTON COUNTY, MINNESOTA


           BEFORE THE SECOND SESSION OF THE CONFERENCE


         CONCERNING INTERSTATE AND INTRASTATE POLLUTION


                 OF THE UPPER MISSISSIPPI RIVER


                      FEBRUARY 28, 196?





           The 3M Company plant, located on the section of

-------
                                                        470
              MMM Company by 0. Oinner
the Mississippi River under consideration in this conference,
is known as the Chemollte plant.  It is located in Cottage
Grove Township in southern Washington County, on the north
bank of the Mississippi River.  The plant is approximately
three miles above the Lock and Dam No. 2 at Hastings,
Minnesota, and about 19 miles below the Minneapolis-St. Paul
Sanitary District Sewage Treatment Plant.
            The company has been active in pollution control
ever since the Chemolite plant began operations in 19^7.  The
process waste water was first discharged to holding ponds
constructed prior to 1950.  In 1955 waste water was treated
in a skimming and settling tank and an oxidation pond, before
discharge into the Mississippi River.  The sanitary sewage
has always been segregated from the process waste and treated
separately.
            In 1962, new additional waste treatment facili-
ties were constructed to expand and modify the existing
facilities.  These facilities, which are presently being used,
consist of skimming and settling tanks, sludge concentration
tanks, oxidation pond, neutralization facilities, and neces-
sary pumping and piping appurtenances.  Plans and specifica-
tions for construction of these facilities were approved by
the Minnesota Water Pollution Control Commission before they
were constructed.  This information was also presented by

-------
                                                       471
               MMM Company by G. Ginner
written statement to the first conference concerning inter-
state pollution of the Upper Mississippi River on February 7,
1964.  Results of laboratory analysis of the waste water
being discharged to the river are compiled and periodically
submitted to the Water Pollution Control Commission.
            In August 1966, construction of an addition to the
existing facilities was started.  These new facilities, based
on three years of research, are a modification of the acti-
vated sludge process and consist of an equalization and
neutralization tank, aeration unit, two settling tanks, a
pump house, and necessary appurtenances such as pumps, air
blowers, piping and flow measuring devices.  The plant will
be completed and in operation by October 15, 1967.  The
operation of the facilities and discharge of effluent will
comply in all respects with the Water Pollution Control
Commission's regulations regarding Classification and Standards
for the Mississippi River and tributaries from the outfall of
the Minneapolis-St. Paul Sanitary District sewage treatment
plant to Lock and Bam No. 2 near Hastings, which were adopted
in March 1963.  Plans and specifications for construction of
these facilities were approved and a permit for construction
and discharge was issued by the Minnesota Water Pollution
Control Commission on July 28, 1966.  Results of laboratory
analysis of the waste water discharge will be submitted to the

-------
                                                   472
               MMM Company by G. Ginner
State on a monthly basis.
            We have reviewed the summary report on pollution
abatement recommendations for the Upper Mississippi and
major tributaries prepared by the Federal Water Pollution
Control Administration.  Based on our design calculations,
we anticipate that the effluent that will be discharged from
our treatment facilities to the Mississippi River will meet
the river standard as recommended in the report.  However, we
feel that the general recommendation that all industries, in-
cluding the 3M Chemolite plant, "provide treatment sufficient
to produce an effluent containing no more than 20 percent of
the mass of 5-day (20°C) BOD and suspended solids originally
contained in the untreated process waste" is not a river
standard, but only an implementation of the proposed standard,
and in this case it does not represent an equitable evaluation
of the proposed river standard.  If a river standard is to be
used, and we agree that it should be, then the Implementation
of that standard should be based on the natural assimilation
resources of the river when determining the degree of treat-
ment each individual user is required to provide.  The cost
of providing and operating adequate waste water treatment
facilities has become a significant part of a manufacturing
plant, and, therefore, it should be approached on a tech-
nically sound basis.

-------
                                                      473
               MMM Company by 6. dinner
            The existing river standard adopted in March
1963 is implemented by using the so-called "equivalent treat-
ment" which we feel is not related to the natural assimilation
of the river and not based on sound available scientific
knowledge.  For the same reason, we are opposed to any recom-
mendation that establishes a uniform limitation for an entire
section of a river on Individual effluents that is not
directly based on the natural assimilation capability of
the river.
            We strongly urge the Chairman and conferees of
this conference to review this proposal and consider the
natural resources of the river in this section when the degree
of treatment for each individual user is established.
            The 3" Company wishes to extend its appreciation
for this opportunity to submit this statement to the conference.
            MR. STEIN:  Thank you.
            There is no one from the 3M Company here?
            MR. SMITH:  Apparently not.
            MR. STEIN:  I think we have identified their
problem, but with reference to the point about the assimila-
tive capacity, I don't know.
            What surprises me is that companies can come up
with these up-to-date devices for the market, and yet have
these old-fashioned theories when it comes to this.

-------
            I will say that their major point is well taken,

that their effluent requirements should be tailored to a

specific plant, and I don't know that we necessarily have to

get into the rationale.

            Do you have any comments?

            DR. JELATIS:  I was just going to comment on

the same thing, Mr, Stein.

            Relating the degree of treatment to assimilative

capacities of streams I think is rather old-fashioned, and I

think it is becoming recognized more and more that part of

the cost of doing business should be the treatment of effluents

to the highest degree possible.  I think this is the criterion

which should be used, rather than try and dump it into a

stream and let it assimilate as best it can.

            MR. STEIN:  Thank you.

            I think we are getting rather close to our lunch

time.

            Our present schedule calls for us to hear every-

one.  We will be here to hear everyone.

            In order to do that and not exhaust the panel, and

our reporter particularly, because he has to keep up with it,

we will recess for lunch now.

            Let's see if we can get back here at 1:35.  We

will stand recessed until 1:35.

            (Whereupon, at 12:20 p.m., a luncheon recess was
taken.)

-------
                                                      475
                       A. Steffes

                   AFTERNOON SESSION
                                     (1:40 p.m. )
            MR. STEIN:  May we reconvene?
            Mr. Smith?
            MR. SMITH:  I would like to call on a representa-
tive of the City of Hastings next.
            Is Mr. Steffes in the room?

            STATEMENT OF ARNOLD STEFFES, CITY ENGINEER,
                     HASTINGS, MINNESOTA

            MR. STEFFES:  Good afternoon.
            Ladies and Gentlemen, Members of the Commission:
            My name is Arnold Steffes,  and I am City Engineer
of the City of Hastings, and I wish to  present the following
statement:
            The City of Hastings, Minnesota, has a direct
interest in the Federal Water Pollution Control Administration
"Report on Summary and Pollution Abatement Recommendations."
            The City of Hastings' concerns with regard to
these recommendations are as follows:
            Page 29 of the General Recommendations, Item 3*
Treatment of Municipal Wastes.

-------
                       A. Steffes



            The requirement that the treatment is to produce



an effluent containing no more than the percentages stated



under this heading, does not take into account the effluent



load from various plants upstream from the City of Hastings.



            The restrictions placed on the coliform guide,



value of 1000/100 ml, as a maximum concentration for any one



sample, is unreasonable and virtually impossible.  The guide



value should be stated in terms of average concentration



rather than maximum concentrations.



            Continuous chlorination will greatly increase the



operation and maintenance costs.  It is the City's position



that chlorination during the recreation season is justified,



but chlorination outside the recreation season is an unjusti-



fiable expenditure of public funds in terms of benefits to



users of the river.



            Our estimate of the cost differential between the



four-month recreation season and continuous chlorination is



$5*600.



            Page 31 of Specific Recommendations, Mississippi



River, Municipal Sources, subheading, Hastings Plant, Para-



graph 4.



            The City of Hastings objects to the statement that



practically no treatment is provided.  Records over the number



of years indicate consistently that a much greater removal

-------
                                                        477
                       A. Steffea
than the 5 percent stated in the report has been obtained.
Tests conducted by an indpendent laboratory indicate BOD
removals of 15 to 20 percent.
            It is doubtful that the minimum dissolved oxygen
level of 5 mg/1 can be maintained at all times between Lock
and Dam No. 2 and the Chippewa River, unless steps are taken
upstream to reduce the pollutional loads on the river.  The
city takes the position that little or no improvement in
water quality between Lock and Dam No. 2 will be realized
until the Minneapolis-St. Paul Sanitary District and the City
of South St. Paul have in operation adequate waste water treat-
ment facilities.
            The City of Hastings presently has a Federal
Water Pollution Control Administration grant for the construc-
tion of additions and alterations to their existing sewage
treatment plant to provide for additional treatment.  The
additional treatment is provided by installing secondary
treatment designed by adding modified activated sludge treat-
ment which can be revised later to provide for step aeration,
increasing the degree of treatment as required.  The comple-
tion of the sewage treatment plant is scheduled for January
15, 1969.  Bids will be received for this project on March
16, 1967.
            These are now out in the contractors' hands for

-------
                                                       478



                       A. Steffes




bidding.  Depending upon the action taken here by the



Federal Commission, it may be necessary to extend the date



of bidding for the additions to the Hastings sewage treatment



plant.  However, this would produce no effect upon the comple-



tion date as scheduled.



            This report is signed by L. Michael Kelly, Mayor,



City of Hastings, and attested to by Wallace H. Erickson,




City Clerk.



            MR. STEIN:  Thank you.



            I wonder if that modified active sludge you have



now meets the Minnesota requirements.



            MR. STEPPES:  The plans and specifications for



the additions to the Hastings sewage treatment plant have




been submitted to the State Board of Health.  They were



designed upon the criteria given us by the Minnesota Water



Pollution Control Commission.  The designs have been approved



by the United States Public Health Administration.



            MR. STEIN:  I recognize all that, but is your



effluent at 50?  Does it meet the requirements of 50?



            MR. STEPPES:  Yes.



            MR. STEIN:  50?



            MR. STEPPES:  At present the plans which are out




for bids will meet the 50.



            MR. STEIN:  50, but Minnesota just said that

-------
                                                      479



                       A. Steffes



50 wasn't good enough.  They wanted 30.



            MR. STEPPES:  That Is the statement I made, which



was not in the report which I ad libbed, that if that change



is necessary we are willing to meet with the Water Pollution



Control Commission and see what the requirements will be.



They have to establish the requirements before we can design



it.



            MR. STEIN:  Minnesota indicates that the change is




necessary going down from 50 to 30.



            MR. STEPPES:  They did not indicate that up to the



time that the U. S. Federal Water Pollution Control Commission



            MR. STEIN:  We heard it here today.  I don't think




we are going to pursue Minnesota on that.   If you are just



doing 50 and they want 30, maybe you ought to just get talking



to them as soon as you can.



            MR. STEPPES:  I cannot here speak for the council



of the City of Hastings at the moment.  However, I can say



this:  That I have been contacted by the Chairman of the



Sewage Commission of the City of Hastings  to ask for a review



of the plans in the light of what the results of this meeting



will be, and I do believe that it is the general consensus



of the council of the City of Hastings that they will be




willing to abide by the requirements.



            MR. STEIN:  Now, there is Just one other

-------
                                                     480
                       A. Steffes
information question.
            You say:  "Records over the number of years
indicate consistently that a much greater removal than the
5 percent stated in the report has been obtained."
            How much over the 5 percent have you obtained?
            MR. STEFFES:  18 to 20 percent.  The last
results that we have had made by an independent laboratory
gave us 18 percent removal.
            You must realize that our plants were designed
and constructed in 1953, and based on the population of 7,000.
The City of Hastings has had a much more rapid growth than
the projected population, and we will admit that our present
plant is at the design capacity.
            MR. STEIN:  That's right.  You know, again, when
we talk about "much greater than 5 percent," 18 percent may
be much greater than 5.  When we were talking in terms of
removal of 90 percent or secondary treatment, somewhere in
the vicinity of 80 or 75, when we get down to 18 as related
to 5, I don't know that we really have disinfected sewage
treatment.
            MR. STEFFES:  We don't contest that.  We are not
contesting that as an argument.  We realize that.
            If we had not realized that, we would not have
made an application  to  the Federal Water Pollution Control

-------
                                                         481
                       A. Steffes
Agency for a grant.
            MR. STEIN:  I recognize that.  I an just clari-
fying your statement.  You indicate here that consistently
a much greater removal than the 5 percent stated in the report
has been obtained.  If you raised that by another 300 percent,
which you probably have, you still are not doing very much.
            MR. STEPPES:  I don't follow your question, Mr.
Stein.
            MR. STEIN:  The question here is if we are
dealing in terms of a range between 5 percent removal and 18
percent removal, I don't know that we are really dealing in
meaningful terms of effective water pollution control.
            MR. WISNIEWSKI:  Mr. Chairman, I can't understand
what point you are trying to make.
            They are proposing to place the plant up for bids
and proceed with construction.
            Let's move on to the next item instead of having
a quarrel about whether 5 percent or 18 percent is being
accomplished.  Let's move along in this thing.
            MR. STEIN:  I don't know that there is any
quarrel, Mr. Wlsniewski.
            MR. WISNIEWSKI:  They said they are going to
build a plant.  Let's move on.  They have a Federal grantj
they want to use it and put it to work.

-------
                                                      482



                       A. Steffes



            Now, let's not stretch this hearing.



            MR. STEPPES:  That is a very good point, and



that is the point that the City of Hastings and the Council



of Hastings and I, as the City Engineer, wish to leave with



the body, and also for correction, as far as any newspaper



publicity is concerned, that the City of Hastings has not been



producing an effluent of 5 percent removal — they have been



producing a better effluent — and also, keeping in mind that



the treatment plant was designed beginning with 1937 and it



finally came to an accomplishment in 1953.  It was designed



according to State and Pederal standards at that time.



            It is only a primary plant, and as a primary



plant it has reached its peak capacity, and I think that a



reduction of 18 to 20 percent is not a bad record for a



primary plant.



            That is the point that I wish to make.  I don't



wish to argue the point, but I wish to present it to clarify



the record.



            MR. STEIN:  All right.  Thank you.



            Are there any further comments or questions?



            (No response.)



            MR. STEIN:  Mr. Smith?



            MR. SMITH:  The next statement will be from the



American Crystal Sugar Company.

-------
                                                         483
            Am. Crystal Sugar Co., by G. Dinner


            Mr. Ginner ?
            STATEMENT OF THE AMERICAN CRYSTAL SUGAR

            COMPANY, CHASKA, MINNESOTA PLANT, READ BY

            GARY GINNER, ENGINEER, MINNESOTA DEPART-

                         MENT OF HEALTH

            MR. GINNER:  This is dated February 27, 1967.



              AMERICAN CRYSTAL SUGAR COMPANY

                CHASKA, MINNESOTA PLANT

            On March 18, 1965* we confirmed by letter to the

State of Minnesota Water Pollution Control Commission, our

intention to construct treatment facilities for our waste

water from our Chaska plant.

            Our original planning was for the construction of

holding lagoons, providing sufficient suitable land could be

purchased.  Negotiations for the land in question failed.  It

was then decided to construct a closed loop system for our

beet fluming water and segregate the other in-plant waters so

that water pumped for cooling could be returned direct to the

river or to our river pumping station.

            The installation as constructed cost $250,000.

It includes a new waste water pumping station, waste water

screening facilities (Tyler Ton Cap Screen No. 554, .054 width

-------
                                                        484
            Am. Crystal Sugar Co., by G. Ginner
of opening), 100 ft. diameter Eimco clarifier with mud pumps
and a mud pond slightly under 15 acres in size.  Due to
various construction delays, the system was not placed in
operation until December 8, 1966.  Some operational diffi-
culties were encountered; some were overcome, while others
entail more study and changes.
            Although our new waste water treatment facili-
ties were in operation only during the latter part of our
1966-67 operating season (67 days), we have reason to believe
that the system will meet the General Recommendations set
forth under Item 11, Page 30, and Item 2, Page 32 of the
Summary and Pollution Abatement Recommendations for the Upper
Mississippi River and Major Tributaries, Federal Water Pollu-
tion Control Administration, Twin Cities - Upper Mississippi
River Project.
            MR. STEIN:  Thank you.
            Are there any comments or questions?
            (No response.)
            MR. STEIN:  If not, Mr. Smith?
            MR. SMITH:  Our next statement is from the Rahr
Malting Company.
            Mr. Thimsen?

-------
                                                      485
              Rahr Malting Co, by D. J. Thimsen

            STATEMENT OP THE RAHR MALTING COMPANY,
            MINNEAPOLIS, MINNESOTA, READ  BY DONALD
            J. THIMSEN, MINNESOTA DEPARTMENT OP HEALTH

            MR. THIMSEN:  My name is Donald J. Thimsen and I
am from the Minnesota Department of Health.  I an reading the
statement from the Rahr Malting Company.  This statement is
from Mr. C. R. Alt of the Rahr Malting Company, and is dated
February 24, 1967.
            This letter is addressed to Mr. Robert N. Barr,
M.D., Secretary, Minnesota Water Pollution Control Commission,
Department of Health, University Campus, Minneapolis, Minne-
sota 55440.
Dear Dr. Barr:
            We acknowledge your invitation to attend the
conference on water pollution control scheduled for Tuesday,
Pebruary 28, at the Leamington Hotel, Minneapolis.  The
writer will attend this session, and consulting engineers
retained by our company will also be there.  In lieu of making
a personal presentation, we submit this statement.
            Our company is in complete accord with the broad
objectives of the Minnesota Water Pollution Control Commission
with respect to reduction of pollution.  It is a basic policy

-------
                                                        486
               Rahr Malting Co., by D. J. Thimsen
of this company to cooperate fully with public authority.
In order to conform to standards now set for the Minnesota
River, our planning has been updated.  We have met with
officials of the City of Shakopee on several occasions, and
have also met periodically with representatives of the
Minnesota Water Pollution Control Commission to keep them
currently informed of progress being made on our program.
            The treatment of effluent from our Shakopee,
Minnesota, plant has had our attention over a period of many
years.  In constructing additions, plant design made provision
for separation of cooling water from other effluent.  Outside
engineering counsel has been retained to advise us on these
matters.
            Our company cooperated with Toltz King and Day,
Inc., of St. Paul, when they were engaged by the City of
Shakopee to provide primary sewage treatment for that
community.  Their report of February 26, 1957* prepared for
the city, envisioned future inclusion of malting company
wastes at such time as secondary treatment would be provided
for the community.  When interceptors were installed in
Shakopee, at the intersection of Clay and Spring Streets,
they were sized to handle wastes of our plant at that Juncture.
            During the period October 15-17* 1963, the
Minnesota Department of Health conducted an extensive survey

-------
                                                     487
              Rahr Malting Co., by D. J. Thimsen
of our plant effluent and Issued a report of their findings.
Our personnel cooperated in this study, providing information
so that there could be a determination of volume averages
to be anticipated over an extended period of time.
            During recent years certain screening devices in
the malting plant have been replaced with equipment of im-
proved design to reduce the volume of raw materials leaving
the plant as waste.
            Other in-plant modifications included extensive
piping changes, making it possible to completely separate
plant effluent to a point at the plant boundaries, in con-
templation of further extension when secondary treatment is
available.
            It was deemed prudent to defer specific planning
for construction until classification and standards for the
Minnesota River had been established in November 1965.  Sub-
sequently, the City of Shakopee engaged the firm of Bonestroo,
Rosene, Anderlik and Associates of St. Paul, Minnesota, as
consulting engineers to study the sewage treatment problems
and needs of the Shakopee community, including Industry.  Our
company has cooperated fully with these engineers, and has
also retained their services for counsel, engineering, design,
and to supervise construction of those facilities which we
consider the responsibility of our company.

-------
                                                       488
              Rahr Malting Co., by D. J. Thimsen
            Rahr Malting Company has now awarded a contract
for construction on its property of a holding tank and
screening device to accomplish two things in particular.   The
holding tank will make possible the release of processing
water on a relatively steady flow basis throughout 24 hours
of each day.  This will significantly reduce the required
size of secondary treatment facilities.  The screening device
will remove suspended solids which would otherwise be run into
the community treatment plant.
            Further treatment of these process wastes is
dependent upon provisions for secondary treatment.  We believe
it is desirable to have a single treatment operation to serve
the total needs of the Shakopee community.
            The consulting engineers are now completing a
comprehensive study to assemble the information needed to
plan for such facilities.  We assure your office, and the City
of Shakopee, of our complete cooperation in carrying this
program through to a satisfactory conclusion.
                            Respectfully submitted
                 /s/        C. R. Alt
            MR, STEIN:  Thank you.
            Are there any questions or comments?
            (No response. )
            MR. STEIN:  If not, Mr. Smith?

-------
                                                       489
                       R. P. Hubbard
            MR. SMITH:  The next statement I have is from


Cargill, Inc.





            STATEMENT OP ROBERT P. HUBBARD, ASSISTANT


            GENERAL SUPERINTENDENT, CAROILL CORPORATION,


                     MINNEAPOLIS, MINNESOTA


            MR. HUBBARD:  I am Robert Hubbard, Assistant


General Superintendent of Cargill Corporation,  I have a


brief statement of what we have done.  It was first brougnt


to our attention when the original survey was started, and


this is the statement for the record:


            Tests of discharged water from our Port Cargill


plant during the period 10/24/64 to 1/14/65 showed the BOD


varied from 23.6 PPM to 1,30? PPM.  Investigation of possible


pollutants determined that a major source was a wet dust


collector at the soybean plant from which dust-laden water


was discharged to the river.  It was determined the unusually


high periods of pollution were the result of a pilot plant


practice of washing mistakes and spills down the floor drains,


not a septic system, but an overflow, which then discharged


to the river.


            The following corrective action has been


effected:


            1)  A fabric dust filter was purchased and

-------
                                                        490



                       R. F. Hubbard




      installed as of October 1966 at the soybean plant.



      This filter has no water discharge.



            2)  Although the pilot plant is now shut



      down, the practice of washing spills to the floor



      drain has been eliminated and any future spills



      would be drummed for disposal.



            Tests of the stream as made by the Twin City



Testing Company in January and February of 1967 showed the




following:



                  BOD -                5-10 PPM



                  Undissolved Solids - Negligible



                  pH -                 7.6.



            This concludes the statement.



            MR. STEIN:  Yes.  Are you in compliance with



the Minnesota requirements now?



            MR. HUBBARD:  Pardon?



            MR. STEIN:  Are you in compliance with the



Minnesota requirements, or do they require more?



            MR. HUBBARD:  I am not sure we are aware of the



exact requirements for our discharge.



            MR. SMITH:  I believe they are in compliance.  Yes.



            MR. STEIN:  All right.  Thank you.



            Are there any further comments or questions?




             (No response.)

-------
                                                      491
                       J. J. Klein
            MR. STEIN: Thank you very much.

            MR. SMITH:  The next statement is from Eagan

Township.




            STATEMENT OP JOHN J. KLEIN, REPRESENTING

            THE TOWN BOARD OP SUPERVISORS, EAGAN


            TOWNSHIP, DAKOTA COUNTY, MINNESOTA

            MR. KLEIN:  I would like to introduce myself.   I


am John Klein of the Town Board of Supervisors of the Eagan


Township, and I would like to locate it on the map.


            It is right in this area here (indicating).

Eagan Township is 3^.5 square miles in area, and we are


located 9 miles from downtown Minneapolis and 7 miles from

downtown St. Paul and 2 miles from the airport.  Because of

our location, there is great acceleration in development in


Eagan Township of both residential and commercial and

industrial, and for that reason we are doing everything we

can to prepare for this growth.

            We are presently about 7,500 in population.  The

NPC projections for 1975 indicate it will grow over 10,000


people in the next eight years, and our future projected

population is between 100 and 112,000.

            We are about three-fifths the size of St. Paul


in area.

-------
                                                      492



                       J. J. Klein



            We have a statement here that I would like to



read.



            As one of the communities vitally concerned with



the future condition of the Minnesota River, Eagan Township




appreciates the opportunity to comment on the recently com-



pleted river quality study and the proposed minimum river



quality standards.



            Eagan Township is a rapidly growing suburban area



with approximately three miles of frontage on the Minnesota



River.  This entire area is within that length of the Minne-



sota River now shown to have the most pollution.  Prompt and




positive action is necessary to restore this section of the



river to a condition continuously acceptable for navigation,



pleasure boating, fishing, stock and wildlife watering,



irrigation, and maintenance of rough fish life.




            The minimum standards recommended in this study



represent a significant improvement and provide a practical



level which can be attained.  However, we do not feel that



the establishment of these standards should be taken to



represent the desirable conditions under normal river flow.



In addition to satisfying the minimum standards proposed, all



treatment facilities on the river should be operated continu-



ously at the highest degree of treatment consistent with their



design.  Normal operation should include maintaining the level

-------
                                                       493
                       J. J, Klein
of dissolved oxygen in the effluent at the highest practical
level, continuous efforts to maintain BOD and bacteria count
at the lowest levels and the removal of all possible objec-
tionable solids.
            We approve of the proposed Federal standards
which, while requiring a satisfactory level of purity, do
not represent a prohibition of the discharge of a highly
treated sewage plant effluent into the Minnesota River.  With
adequate design and operation, properly placed regional sewage
treatment plants can provide treatment of the sewage from
adjacent municipalities and still maintain these river quality
standards on the Minnesota and Mississippi Rivers.
            Equally important as the establishment of proper
river quality standards is the enforcement of them.  It is
suggested that careful consideration be given to the develop-
ment of an adequate staff anl checking procedure to Insure
that river quality standards are continuously maintained.
Treatment plants must be operated satisfactorily and maintained
or improved as indicated by continual routine testing.  Long-
range planning for constant upgrading of treatment techniques
should be encouraged.  The enforcement and Implementation of
this program can best be carried out by a properly staffed
and organized State of Minnesota agency.
            Very little pollution is being contributed to the

-------
                       J. J. Klein



Minnesota River by present development in Eagan Township.



As the area grows, we will do everything within our power to



cooperate with the State program of pollution abatement and



to minimize pollution discharged into the river.



                       Respectfully submitted,



                       Eagan Township, Minnesota.



            MR. STEIN:  That is kind of a downstream community.



Let me ask you this question specifically here:  Have you



thought about the year  round disinfection of the effluent?



Have you heard this controversy, or are you familiar with it?



            MR. KLEIN:  I'm sorry, sirj I can't hear you.



            MR. STEIN:  You can't hear me?



            MR. KLEIN:  No.



            MR. STEIN:  I refer to your statement.  You want



effluent at the highest practical level.



            Now, the question we have and that the conferees



are going to have to consider is whether they are going to



require any disinfection of the effluent, and whether they



are going to require that on a year  round basis, or just



during the recreational season.



            Do you have any views on that?



            MR. KLEIN:  I would prefer to have any of these



technical points answered by our consulting engineer, and he



is here in the audience, if you would like him to answer those.

-------
                                                      495
                       J. J. Klein
            MR. STEIN:  I don't know that this is a technical
point.  The difficulty that we have is trying to translate
the views that you have into this.
            Let me again give you the position, and this was
the position taken by the St. Paul District.  The recommenda-
tion made by the Federal conferee was that secondary treatment
be provided, and I am sliding over that without getting into
what secondary treatment is, plus year  round chlorination of
the effluent.
            The St. Paul District man indicated that they
thought that chlorination of the effluent, disinfection of
the effluent, should just take place during the summer season,
or during the recreation season, or certainly not during the
non-recreation season.
            You have pointed out that we have to have a
removal of the effluent at the highest practical level and
bacteria counts at the lowest levels.
            Now, I wondered if you had thought this question
through.  If you haven't, you haven't.
            MR. KLEIN:  Well, the only thing that we say is
that we are willing to go along with this disinfection during
these low levels, but what we meant by this "highest practical
standard" was that it should be on a year  round basis wherever
that may be deemed to be necessary by the Water Pollution

-------
                                                       496



                       J. J. Klein



Control Commission.



            What we do object to is total prohibition of



discharging into the river, and that is why we say "highest



practical."



            MR. STEIN:  All right.  Thank you.



            MR. SMITH:  Mr. Stein, the Commission has issued



a variance.  This section did contain a prohibition and they



have Issued a variance, and Eagan Township has that variance



to establish two aerating ponds, and the question here is



whether they go beyond that prohibition or not.



            DR. HARORAVES:  I want to eliminate your diffi-



culty.



            You do not get over to the Mississippi, do you?



            MR. KLEIN:  No, sir.  Our natural drainage area



is into the Minnesota.



            DR. HARORAVES:  It is three miles along here.



            One of the difficulties, of course, that arises



is a difference in philosophy and desirability as to whether



to use for effluent streams that pass through major cities



and have plants on them, or have it all brought down to one




plant.



            We issued a variance so they could put in two



temporary ponds.  I am sure the future is going to hold the



answer.  It is all in the courts yet, with all of these, but

-------
                                                  497




                       J. J. Klein



the question is whether they will have a plant, and so on,



and discharge in here (indicating), or whether it can be



carried over there (indicating).



            I think I have stated it right.  There are cer-



tain groups that would like to have separate plants on the



Minnesota River.  This Sanitary District is growing up, and




the plan is to carry Interceptors down to all of these areas,



and pick it up and bring it down to Pig's Eye, if this part



of the plan is approved by the people of the State, or whoever



is going to be making decisions.



            At the present time, we bring this back to a



metropolitan sanitary district versus a number of districts.



            MR. KLEIN:  Dr. Hargraves, we feel that we can




sympathize with this philosophy to a point.  If we are going



to be 4 million people in the metropolitan area by the year



2000, we feel certainly that bringing this second river under-
      x


ground from Shakopee to Pig's Eye and discharging it at that



point, we will be discharging a higher degree of sewage into



the river at one point which will then be carried past



communities with populations projected in excess of what St.




Paul is presently populated at, so tnere seems to be a bit



of paradox in that philosophy that we along the Minnesota



River have a total prohibition standard, because they don't



want this carried past major concentrations of people.  Yet,

-------
                                                      498



                       J. J. Klein



the answer that we have been given to this is to pipe it



to Pig's Eye, dump it in the river there, and run it past



areas which will be populated in excess of what St. Paul is



now.



            This is where the conflict comes.  We feel that



we can maintain a high degree of treatment in Eagan Township.



            As a matter of fact, the studies which we have



made seem to support this.  They definitely support it.  They



prove that we can do a more efficient job of treating.  We



can have more flexibility with these regional plants, and



they are more economical, and so we have taken the position



of supporting regional plant concepts.



            Furthermore, we believe that some place along



the line we are going ,to have to face up to the regional



plants, because there is a practical limit that we can extend



pipelines from one plant, and so we are trying to approach



thia thing with a minimum possible pollution to our streams.



We feel that this is the answer.



            There is disagreement on this, and it is a



matter of difference in philosophy, but we are very strong



in our position on this thing, and we feel that we have had



it supported by an extensive study which we had made.



            DR. HARQRAVES:  I Just wanted to have it brought



out that this is the very knotty problem, and certainly there

-------
                                                      499
                       J. J. Klein
are excellent arguments on both sides as to how it is best
settled.
            MR. STEIN;  Mayor Jelatis?
            DR. JELATIS:  Mr. Chairman, this indeed brings
up a philosophical problem.  While I am sure that we all
concur in the objectives as stated by Eagan Township, what
comes into question is the best way to achieve them.
            I think this is brought out in the Summary Report,
not as a conclusion, but it is one of the observations relat-
ing to the metropolitan area, in which you said that planning
an action to alleviate metropolitan problems of sewage collec-
tion, treatment and disposal can be handled best by a single
authority.
            This is on Page 22, and the conclusion, I think,
states that whether the best solution lies in the use of one
or several plants, the important point is that all sewage
facilities be planned as part of an integrated system, en-
compassing the entire metropolitan area.
            Now, the question whether properly placed
regional plants can provide better treatment than a single
one I am sure is still an open question, but the question of
adequate maintenance of treatment standards and continual
quality I am sure can be perhaps better administered under
a single agency that can have the staff and equipment to do

-------
                                                       500



                       J.  J.  Klein



a more thorough job than a number of relatively small plants.



            MR. KLEIN:  We haven't been opposed as such to



a single agency which might have control over this ,  but we



do take the position as to whether it will be a one-plant



concept or regional or district plants, and also how the cost



allocations will be applied to those areas being served by



either the one plant or the regional.  This is where the



conflict comes.



            This also is why there is so much confusion,



if you want to say that, at our State legislative level.



            These people are sitting on volumes of engineer-



ing reports.  I doubt if any one of our legislators has even



had time to really go through all of these reports that they



have been given, and it is a very difficult task.



            MR. STEIN:  I think this comes to the nub of the



question.  I ask you all to look at this.



            I know there will be no conflict to indicate that



this is a problem faced by many, many metropolitan areas.



The question is whether you have a central authority where



from the core city they work out with all the other cities,



and they sign contracts, and you put it in, or whether you



in the smaller communities are in effect on the board of



directors and can call the shots, or you are going to go



independently.

-------
                                                         501
                       J. J. Klein
            Now, my suggestion here, and this Is always
the nub of these questions —
            MR. KLEIN:  Well, Mr. Stein, you say that one of
the things that Is plaguing you as far as proper legislation
on these levels Is concerned is how this one central authority
will be established, and how the representation on that
authority will be arrived at.
            Certainly we feel that there should be two
factors taken into consideration in forming representation
on this one central authority if there is one established,
and because the suburban areas are going to realize three-
quarters possibly of the growth in the metropolitan area over
these next thirty-five years, why, we feel that this should
be a significant factor in establishing representation on
these committees.
            MR. STEIN:  Let me make this clear.  I don't
think Wisconsin or the Federal Government really have any
business in telling you in Minnesota how to set this up.
            The problem that we are both going to have is
knowing that if you haven't got this setup, we are going to
have a problem in getting this going, and I think it behooves
the Minnesota group to get together and get together pretty
fast, because in the absence of a clear-cut operation, you are
going to really leave us no alternative than to go into it

-------
                                                       502
                       J. J. Klein
source by source and demand pollution control.   I don't know
that this is going to be the most economical way.
            Whichever way you go, I think you should have
an integrated system and something that is going to be of
least cost to you and easiest to manage, and give you full
authority to run this.
            Now, we don't have much time on this,  and I am
very glad for your contribution here.  Again let me say this:
This is a situation where you are Just going to have to sit
down with your neighboring cities and your State administra-
tion and work out for yourself and do it.
            Now, I don't want to speak for the conferees, but
as far as the Federal Government is concerned,  anything you
present to us that will do the job we are going to buy.  Some-
times the cities and these metropolitan areas come up with a
plan which we don't think is the most economical, but we
figure if they want to spend 10 or more million dollars and
do it this way just to dovetail their political subdivisions
together, this is all right with us.
            However, as I say, the time is now when something
has to give to work this out.
            MR. KLEIN:  We are hoping that it will, sir, and
we are hoping that we will see something fruitful come out of
this session.

-------
                       J. M. Mason                    503








            Thank you.



            MR. STEIN:  Thank you.  Mr. Smith?




            MR. SMITH;  The next statement is the statement



of the North Suburban Sanitary Sewer District.








            STATEMENT OP JOHN M. MASON ON BEHALF OP



            THE NORTH SUBURBAN SANITARY SEWER DISTRICT



            MR. MASON:  Mr. Chairman and Members of the Panel:



            My name is John Mason.  I am an attorney and I



represent the North Suburban Sanitary Sewer District.



            That District is roughly represented by the



shaded portion on the map here above Minneapolis and St. Paul



and below Anoka.



            The North Suburban Sanitary Sewer District,



known as the "NSSSD," is a political subdivision of the State



of Minnesota.  It is organized for the purpose of preventing



water pollution and providing a modern sewage disposal system



to residents of its service area.  At present it provides




sewage collection service to residents of Coon Rapids, Pridley,



Elaine, Spring Lake Park, Moundsview and Shoreview.  Later in



1967 it will also serve Circle Pines and Lexington.








                 THE SPECIFIC RECOMMENDATIONS




            Inasmuch as the Specific Recommendations in the

-------
                                                       504
                    J. M. Mason

Summary do not relate directly to the North Suburban Sanitary

Sewer District, we shall make no comment on that portion of

the Pollution Abatement Recommendations of the Federal Water

Pollution Control Administration.



               T HE GENERAL RECOMMENDATIONS



        We recognize that it is neither the purpose nor

the intent of this conference, nor is this conference

permitted, to adopt general water quality standards.  We

shall, therefore, make our remarks concerning the General

Recommendations very brief, and shall not comment on all of

the recommendations.



Reports



        The North Suburban Sanitary Sewer District would

agree that systematic reports by municipal treatment plants

would be of great benefit.  These reports would not only be

valuable for purposes of comparing effectiveness of treat-

ment of various sewage treatment plants, they would aid in

determining the source of any pollutional load on the

receiving waters.

-------
                                                         505
                    J. M. Mason

        The North Suburban Sanitary Sewer District plans

to build a modern sewage treatment plant which would dis-

charge Into the Mississippi River below the head of navi-

gation.  This will be a modern secondary sewage treatment

plant utilizing the activated sludge process and disinfecting

the effluent.  It will yield an effluent discharge providing

DO levels even higher than contemplated by the Federal

Water Pollution Control Administration report, and which

will also meet the coliform requirements.  The District

would be most pleased if reports of its operation were

compared with those of other plants in operation.  These

comparisons would be fruitful in securing higher quality

effluent.




River Zoning




        The head of navigation on the Mississippi River

now extends to the Soo Line Bridge, above St. Anthony Falls.

It would seem inconsistent with the policy of encouraging

river navigation to suggest that the entire portion of the

Mississippi River from Anoka to the Minnesota River be

used for swimming, skin diving and water skiing.  This

portion of the river includes Lock and Dam No. 1 and the

-------
                                                      506
                     J. M. Mason

new locks at St. Anthony Falls.  The latter were constructed

at great expense to the Federal Government and local govern-

ments, for the purpose of extending the head of commercial

navigation to the Soo Line Bridge.  It would appear more

realistic and more consistent with present and anticipated

uses of the Mississippi River if the first "zone" terminated

at the head of commercial navigation rather than at the

artificial point presently contemplated.  While it is no

doubt convenient to divide the river into segments based

on natural observable points such as confluence of rivers

or waterfalls, to do so can lead to oversimplification of

the solution to the problems.

        The North Suburban Sanitary Sewer District believes

that the real solutipn to the problem of water pollution

in the metropolitan area is the construction of treatment

plants discharging at various points in the area, rather

than concentrating the load at the one plant currently

favored by the Minnesota Water Pollution Control Commission.

The present discharge of the overloaded Minneapolis-Saint

Paul Sanitary District ("Pig's Eye") plant is the acknowledged

principal cause of the unsatisfactory conditions revealed

by the Federal Water Pollution Control Administration's

report.  To exaggerate the problem by transporting to

-------
                                                        507
                     J. M. Mason

Pig's Eye all of the additional sewage which may be expeoted

to be generated in the fast growing suburban areas north,

northwest, west and southwest of the Twin Cities can scarce-

ly have any effect other than to abandon the river down-

stream from Pig's Eye, and to restrict the solution to

cleaning up all of the waters of the State.

        For the foregoing reasons, the use classifications

for the Mississippi River above the head of commercial

navigation should not be the same as the use classifications

below that point.




                     CONCLUSION




        The North Suburban Sanitary Sewer District welcomes

efforts aimed at improving the quality of waters of the

nation, and making full use of all such waters.  It pledges

its cooperation toward that end.

         This concludes the prepared statement  of the North

 Suburban Sanitary Sewer District.

-------
                       J. M. Mason                      508




            Mr. Chairman, in addition to the formal state-



ment which I have presented, I believe it is necessary to




correct any wrong conclusion which may be drawn from state-



ments by Mr. Wilson about the position of the North Suburban



Sanitary Sewer District on the standards which have been set



for the Mississippi River by the Minnesota Water Pollution



Control Commission, and the court decision on the standards.




Otherwise, I believe this conference may misunderstand one



of the important facts under consideration.  Perhaps Mr.



Wilson will agree with this clarification, because, like me,



he is a lawyer.



            While we may agree that doctors can think



biologically and ecologically, lawyers are restricted to



thinking logically.



            (Laughter. )



            I believe Mr. Wilson said that the Water Pollution



Control Commission is appealing to the Minnesota Supreme



Court from a decision upsetting the water quality standards



established for the Mississippi River.  This is not correct.




            What was principally argued by the North Suburban



Sanitary Sewer District, and what was decided by the Court,



was that the absolute prohibition of the discharge of any



effluent from any sewage treatment plant, regardless of



compliance with qualitative water standards, was not within

-------
                                                     509



                     J. M. Mason



the powers granted to the Commission by the Legislature, nor



was it a solution of the problem of water pollution.  The



remaining standards were affirmed and would take effect




immediately, were it not for the appeal by the Water Pollution



Control Commission.




            The North Suburban Sanitary Sewer District's




position is that a total prohibition of the thing to be



regulated is not a standard on which any meaningful regula-




tion can be based, and presents a roadblock in the path of



solving sewage disposal problems of the metropolitan area.



I think that our position may have been more accurately



described in one of Mr. Wilson's earlier statements, that the



Legislature has so far declined to take the course urged by



the Commission:  to expand the Minneapolis-St. Paul Sanitary



District to collect more sewage to add to the problem at



Pig's Eye.



            I might add parenthetically that the decision of



the Court rejecting the absolute prohibition established by




the Water Pollution Control Commission was not rendered under



the Rosenmeier Act, but under laws which existed before the




Act was passed, and which are still in effect.



            I trust that the view expressed by Mr. Wilson



that our North Suburban Sanitary Sewer District has been a




"thorn in the side" of the Water Pollution Control Commission

-------
                                                   510
                     J. M. Mason

is not shared by the persons duly appointed to that

Commission.


            The sole purpose of the North Suburban Sanitary


Sewer District is to work toward improvement of water quality.

It is not the North Suburban Sanitary Sewer District, but

the Commission, which has allowed the Pig's Eye plant to

continue to destroy the river downstream from the plant.  If


the North Suburban Sanitary Sewer District proposal provides

a constant reminder of the deplorable conditions between Pig's

Eye and Hastings, not permitting the Commission to close its


eyes to that problem, we are proud to be known as a "thorn

in its side."


            The North Suburban Sanitary Sewer District was

unaware that Mr. Wilson would choose to make his unwarranted

attacks on its efforts at averting pollution.  It therefore

requests an opportunity to submit and present a detailed and

documented report of the activity of the North Suburban


Sanitary Sewer District aimed at pollution control.

            We are sure that no objective observer would con-


sider the North Suburban Sanitary Sewer District an enemy of

clean water.  Instead, the facts clearly establish that the


roughly $20 million already spent by the North Suburban

Sanitary Sewer District and its member communities on abate-


ment devices has substantially alleviated pollution problems

-------
                                                        511
                     J. M. Mason



of its area.  The effect of this substantial expenditure has



been to insure that wastes are not discharged into the



Mississippi River above the Minneapolis and St. Paul water



intakes, but rather collected for discharge at some point



downstream from these Intakes.



            If the Water Pollution Control Commission serious-



ly fears loss of local control over standards, it may fulfill



the responsibilities of the State for establishing standards



in the metropolitan area, and avoid the entrance of the



Federal Government by a simple act.  The qualitative standards



already established by the State for the metropolitan area



can take effect immediately if the Commission will abandon



its insistence on absolutely prohibiting discharges of treated



effluent and its claim of power to prohibit such discharges



without regard to standards.



            MR. STEIN:  Do you want to submit that report



to the State or to the conferees?



            MR. MASON:  I beg your pardon?



            MR. STEIN:  To whom do you want to submit that



detailed report?



            MR1. MASON:  We would like to submit it to the



Chairman.



            MR. STEIN:  How soon can you have it in?



            MR. MASON:  I will have to consult with the

-------
                     J. M. Mason                       512
engineers.
            MR. STEIN:  We will keep the record open.  Can
you have it in a week?
            MR, MASON:  I believe we could.
            MR. STEIN:  All right.  Why don't we try a week?
            Did you want to answer that, Mr. Wilson, or do
you have a comment?
            MR. WILSON:  Mr. Chairman, as one lawyer to
another, I certainly would say to Mr. Mason that I haven't
the slightest objection to his submitting any arguments or
material that he wishes in behalf of the North Suburban
Sanitary Sewer District.
            The problems of that District have been very
serious, and certainly have been fully recognized by the
Commission.
            Mr. Mason's connection as attorney for that
Commission does not go back to the beginning, when the contro-
versy first developed between that Commission and the
District, and that District attempted to evade the authority
of the Commission, and perhaps my remark was a little sharp
when I said that that District was a thorn in the side of
the Water Pollution Control Commission.  However, I do not
think that it was out of place because it caused the Commis-
sion to spend a substantial amount of time and effort in

-------
                                                     513



                     J. M. Mason



litigation that could have been much more effectively spent



on constructive water pollution control activities.



            There are many aspects of the record in that



case which involve several hundred pages of hearing testimony,



and I think about 1,000 pages of trial testimony, which would




be entirely out of place to discuss here, because they have



no bearing on the issues before this conference.




            Whether Mr. Mason wants to submit the statement



to the Chairman of the conference is perfectly all right



with me, and I may have something further to say after I read



that statement.




            (Laughter.)



            MR. STEIN:  Yes.



            Mr. Mason, I wonder if we could get Mr. Printz



or one of these people up with you on a colloquy, because I



think you have raised a significant question here, and I am



not sure if we really have the issue framed.



            You say:



            "It would seera inconsistent with the policy



     of encouraging river navigation to suggest that the



     entire portion of the Mississippi River from Anoka



     to the Minnesota River be used for swimming, skin



     diving and water skiing."



            Now, if we come to different conclusions on that,

-------
                   J. N. Mason



this is a significant departure, and I wonder,  Mr. Printz,



do you stay with our original recommendation?  I wonder if



you would come up here, and let us try to frame this for the



conferees, because I think this is a very significant point.



           MR. PRINTZ:  Yes, Mr. Chairman, we very definitely



feel that that reach of the river all the way from the



vicinity of Anoka down to the North Suburban Sanitary Sewer



District ought to be available for body contact, or what we



call our collfom Guide A, the reason being that there is



limited practice now of those waters for whole  body contact.



           As I Indicated in my formal presentation yesterday,



there are uses made of these waters which don't show in those



particular figures of the report.  Below the extensive whole



body contact zone listed in the figures, there  are whole body



contact uses made of those waters, the same as  there are near



the University Landing below St. Anthony Falls.



           We feel that the fact that the waters are open for



navigation — there is a navigation channel —  should not



preclude the use of those waters for whole body contact.



           We might also point out that in Lake Pepln we are



also calling for whole body contact, and this is a heavily



navigationally used river, so we would not yield in our

-------
                                                       515
                       J. M. Mason
recommendations.  The fact that we have limited usage now
seems to mean to us that there will be a greater usage of
this in the future.
            MR. STEIN:  In order to give you the last word
on this, Mr. Mason, in rebuttal, the position we have had
in other rivers, such as the Missouri, has been when the
Corps of Engineers has put in a navigational channel, they in
effect had a series of pools, and they have opened these for
recreation, for boating and swimming.
            If this is not the case here, I would like to get
your view, because the conferees surely will consider this,
and this is a new point.
            MR. MASON:  Substantial evidence on this very
point was presented in the case before the District Court in
Anoka in the trial of the appeal from the standards, in which
a verdict was rendered in favor of the District.
            It is the position of the District, and one which
differs from the position of the Federal Water Pollution
Control Administration, that the uses are inconsistent.
            I am not prepared personally to present all of
the facts on which that conclusion is based.  The facts are
simple enough to know, that you cannot have skin diving in
the same area that you have commercial navigation, where a
person could be injured by the commercial navigation.  The

-------
                                                      516
                     J. M. Mason
same would be true of the water skiing.
            Now, I don't pretend that that la at all a
beginning of a problem, but I am submitting the view —
            MR. STEIN:  But the State has a different view.
            MR. MASON:  The State has had a different view
from the North Suburban Sanitary Sewer District on a number
of matters.
            MR. STEIN:  Well, I am glad to have this, and I
think maybe we should have this.
            MR. MASON:  We will add this to our report.
            MR. STEIN:  My experience has been in other parts
of the country, and this includes Alaska and Hawaii, that
commercial navigation and skin diving are not at all incom-
patible.  As a matter of fact, particularly on the rivers,
where the river is made available for commercial navigation,
we often tame what is relatively a wild river and a dangerous
river, dangerous for boats and dangerous for humans.  When we
get that channelized and we put the locks in, in effect you
have a lake, and then we have this concept of multiple use.
            Now, if this is inconsistent and you have any
points, I think again we should get these pretty soon in
order to consider them.
            MR. MASON:  We would be happy to present them.
            I don't suppose you are suggesting here, Mr.

-------
                                                     517



                     J. M. Mason



Stein, are you, that this was a wild river?



            MR. STEIN:  No.  When I was talking in terms



of a wild river, I didn't mean in terms of art.



            Let me again give you the Missouri.  It used to



be that it took a really brave, foolhardy man to hop into



that roaring Missouri River and try to swim in it and get



out, because the chances were he would not be seen again.



            The Missouri River was lined up for navigation,



and we had a series of pools.  The river was channelized in



many places and became calm.  In those places we could run



small boats, people could go swimming, and I know the river



is so muddy that I guess skin diving would be unproductive,



but we did have water skiing.  In other words, the commercial



navigation opened that up to the body contact sports.



            This has happened in many other places.  That is



why I am trying to get the issue on why you think they are



incompatible.  It seems to have worked the other way.



            MR. MASON:  Well, as I say, I am not qualified



to give an answer to that, but we will add that to our



statement.



            MR. STEIN:  Thank you.



            MR. WILSON:  Mr. Chairman.



            MR. STEIN:  Yes, Mr. Wilson.



            MR. WILSON:  I would like to make an additional

-------
                                                      518
                     J. N. Mason
comment.
            MR. STEIN:  Will you talk louder, Cheater, please?
            MR. WILSON:  We have conveyed an erroneous im-
pression in saying that this was an arbitrary standard, because,
like all city zoning ordinances, this standard contained a
variance clause under which the North Suburban Sanitary Sewer
District could have applied for and obtained a variance from
the standard upon a showing of hardship, the same as property
owners may do under city zoning ordinances.
            The lower court chose to disregard that variance
clause as relieving the absolute prohibition of the standard
Itself.  That is one of the issues that will be subject to
determination by the Supreme Court on the appeal taken by
the Commission.
            Bear in mind that, in the first place, the North
Suburban Sanitary Sewer District took the original appeal
from the standard adopted by the Commission to the District
Court.  Then, when the District Court decided adversely to
the Commission, the Commission has appealed to the Supreme
Court for a final decision.
            My principal purpose in citing that case, as well
as the previous case in which the North Suburban Sanitary
Sewer District sought exemption from the authority of the
Commission, is to show that in the situation in which the

-------
                                                       519
                       J. M. Mason


Minnesota Commission is placed by our law, where the adop-

tion of a standard is necessary before an enforcement order

can be issued, it practically doubles the difficulty of the

Commission and requires the application of a tremendous

amount of time and energy and money by the Commission and its

technical and legal staff through the holding of hearings

and the carrying on of litigation, in the case of these

appeals, which is not necessary in those cases where, as

under the Wisconsin law, the adoption of standards is not

prerequisite to the enforcement.

            My purpose in emphasizing this point is to appeal

to the head of the Federal Water Pollution Control Agency to

give due recognition to this inescapable condition in which

the Minnesota Commission finds itself through no fault of its

own; whereas this situation does not obtain in Wisconsin or

other States that are not subject to that necessity of adopt-

ing a standard before the issuance of an enforcement order.

We think that due recognition should be given to that situa-

tion in the application of these terms of the Federal law, in

view of the unavoidable delays to which the Commission is

subject in applying those requirements of the Federal law as

to what must be done by a certain time in order to have the

approval of the Federal Water Pollution Control Administration.

            MR. STEIN:  Thank you, Mr. Wilson.

-------
                       J. G. Pidgeon                    520








            Are there any comments or questions?



            (No response.)



            MR. STEIN:  If not,  Mr. Smith?



            MR. SMITH:  The next statement will be from the



City of Bloomlngton.



            Mr. Pidgeon?








            STATEMENT OP JOHN G. PIDGEON,  CITY



            ATTORNEY, BLOOMINGTON, MINNESOTA



            MR. PIDGEON:  Mr. Chairman,  Conferees:




            My name is John G.  Pidgeon.   I am City Attorney



of the City of Bloomlngton.



            Bloomington; for your information, is located on



the south boundary on the Minnesota River  from about Mile



one-half to about Mile 13.5.  I't is on the north side of the



river.  It is a city of about 39-i square  miles, with about



72,000 people.  That is up from 12,000 at  its incorporation



date, 1^ years ago.



            It should first be stated that these remarks can




only be attributed to me because the city received only one



copy of the document last Friday and there has not been time



sufficient to permit the governing body to circulate, read,



discuss and arrive at conclusions relative to its contents.



            With all due deference and respect for the

-------
                                                     521



                    J. G. Pldgeon



obviously dedicated and sincere persons constituting the



membership and staff of the Minnesota Water Pollution



Control Commission, and despite recognition and admission



that, relatively speaking, we are Johnny-Come-Latelys to



this problem, Bloomington Is one of those seemingly con-



tentious communities which have disagreed with the Minne-



sota Water Pollution Control Commission's standards and



have disagreed with what we consider to be grossly unfair



expansion plans for the Minneapolis St. Paul Sanitary Sewer



District.



          The recommendations of the Federal Water Pollution



Control Administration seem generally reasonable and fair.



          On page 27 of the General Recommendations, para-



graph numbered 1 is the recommendation that "There be no



further decrease in quality of any of the waters within the



Study Area — At first I assumed that this might be con-



strued as support for the position of the Minnesota Water



Pollution Control Commission as contained and stated in its



standards applicable to that portion of the Minnesota River



between Shakopee and the confluence with the Mississippi.



The so-called standard, with which Bloomington takes issue,



as did the previous speaker on behalf of the NSSSD, pro-



hibits the discharge of major quantities of treated sewage



into this portion of the river.  If the quoted

-------
                                                          522
                  J. G. Pidgeon
recommendation is intended to support that so-called standard,
then I believe it should oe clarified to state that support
more explicitly.
           However, on reflection, and considering the maximum
waste loadings for the stretch of the river, Page 32, paragraph
numbered 2, under "Specific Recommendations, Minnesota River"
it seems that under these recommendations the discharge of
effluent into the Minnesota River can be accommodated for
some years to cone.
           Most persons seem to agree that the year 2000
population equivalent for this area which would naturally
drain to this segment of the river, Shakopee to the Mississippi,
is about 700,000.  With treatment at 90 percent (5-day (20° C)
BOD and suspended solids) plus continuous disinfectant, the
12,000 pound total allowable waste load can be met.  With 95
percent removal which the engineers say is feasible, the
6500 pound total allowable waste load can be met for this
population equivalent.
           Assuming control and treatment of the discharges
from American Sugar and Rahr Malting Company, the engineers
are confident that the recommended dissolved oxygen levels
can be maintained.
           Another statement which seems to leave the door
open for so-called regional treatment plants is that on

-------
                                                        523
                     J. G. Pidgepn
page 22 wherein the statement is made that "Whether the
best solution lies in the use of one or several plants is
irrelevant."
          That statement seems to contemplate that regional
plants are an acceptable solution Insofar as the Federal
Recommendations are concerned and it is assumed that, once
coming here, there is as much concern for the health of
the people of Minnesota as for those of Wisconsin.
          As a general principle, that statement may be
accurate.  However, considering actual local facts, It
seems questionable.  New plants could be built so that they
would not be subject to periodic flooding as is presently
the case with the MSSD plant.  New plants, so the engineers
tell me, can be built without the bypass.  Tertiary treat-
ment, if and when that is called for, can more convenient-
ly and expeditiously be added.  There would be less waste
loading at one single point and thus the natural assimila-
tive capacity of the rivers can be better utilized.  After
having read the document entitled Solving Our Water Prob-
lems — Water Renovation and Reuse published by the Federal
Water Pollution Control Administration, August 1966, which
seems to point the way in years ahead, it seems to me, an
uneducated laymen in this field, that the Advanced Waste

-------
                                                       524



                    J. G. Pidgeon



Treatment, which they call AWT, techniques can be more



readily applied to the regional plants and their applica-



tion upstream from a great part of the densely populated



metropolitan area would be more beneficial to the streams



and to the people.



          As stated, absent a clarification, it is



assumed that new municipal treatment plants on, for



example, the lower Minnesota River, are not excluded by



General Recommendation No. 1.

-------
                                                       525
                       J. G. Pidgeon

            MR. STEIN:  Thank you.
            Are there any comments or questions of Mr.
Pidgeon?

            DR. JELATIS:  Mr. Chairman?
            MR. STEIN:  Yes, Mayor Jelatis.

            DR. JELATIS:  I think if you look on Pages 31 and

32 of the Specific Recommendations for the Minnesota River,

you will find that there are no specific recommendations
given under municipal sources, and the quotation that has been
given here comes from the industrial sources and applies only

to the American Crystal Sugar Company and Rahr Malting

Company.

            MR. PIDGEON:  It seems to me, if I may say, that
as I interpret this document, American Crystal Sugar and

Rahr Malting, and any other industrial uses, would have to
upgrade to meet the general recommendations.  If they do
f-.hat, then thJn loading into the river should make it possible
/or the 700,000 population equivalent which is expected in

this stretch of the river by the year 2000 to use this waste
loading.
            I would assume that those plants would be in-

cluded in that population equivalent.
            As I say, if I am wrong, I would like to know it.
            MR. STEIN:  Yes.  Well, I am learning a lot here

-------
                                                      526
                   J. G. Pidgeon
from you people.
           I think we are faced with a new situation.  Let
me give it to you as I see it from your testimony and the
testimony of the previous speaker.
           Before this, when we were setting up these metro-
politan area operations,  we generally had the core city kind
of taking the lead and spinning it out to the suburban
communities.
           I think everyone knows what happened in the
United States in the last few years.  This is one of the
first ones where we are getting into a little more complicated
operation — where we have all these communities — and you
are one of them -- who want to have a voice in this and not
just tie in necessarily to the core city.
           When we talked in terms of the other cities all
over the United States where they had the metro system, at
least the plans for the system were developed and the commit-
ments were made before the developments happened.
           We have a very difficult problem here that we are
going to have to consider, and this is cumulative.
           This is why it pays to get out of Washington and

-------
                                                     527
                       J. G. Pldgeon
hear all of this, because it never hit me the way it hits
me now, though it should have been obvious.  I should have
known this.  I think this presents a very interesting
problem.
            I have one technical point to ask you.  Why do
you think that advanced treatment plants can be handled
better regionally than in a main plant?
            MR. PIDGEON:  Well, they are going to be smaller,
for one thing.
            In that huge plant, as I understand the pilot
plant, if that is what it is, that you have in that New York-
New Jersey area, that is in the 20 to 30 million gallon per
day capacity — I am not certain of that, but that is what I
understand.
            MR. STEIN:  Let me give you the views that we
had on that.
            Again, as you know, we are exchanging information
and I have an open mind on it.
            Our thought and our assumption was that when we
got into this complicated stuff in advanced waste treatment,
the processes may be so complex we may need the Ph.D.'s and
the computer guides and the highly trained technical people
and the notion of having individually operated plants — and
I am not talking about regional plants — might be obsolete

-------
                                                        528



                     J. Q. Pidgeon



because we just would not be able to get the trained per-



sonnel to do it.




          I am not throwing this out, except that I would



like to get your views on this.




           If you have a central authority, the wise thing



to do might be to have several regional plants, but you would




have a core of highly trained technical people that would be



able to handle the advanced waste treatment.



           Goodness knows, sir, when you are faced with the



problems that we have in these small-town plants not being



run or operated under the most simple principle, when we think



in terms of getting something as complicated as the advanced



waste treatment plants, sometimes we shudder to think of



where the people are coming from.  I would like to get your



thkining on that.



           MR. PIDGEON:  Well, the plant that we are



pushing for, if you will, for the three communities, is



designed for 325,000 people in the year 2000.  That is sub-



stantial.  We are talking about probably the second largest




plant in Minnesota.  That is what we are talking about.



           We think that a plant of that size and capacity



probably would be able to employ the necessary technical




personnel.



           Now, we are proceeding in the legislature, Just

-------
                                                      529



                       J. 0. Pidgeon



for your Information, to try and get such a. plant.  At the



same time, we are proceeding In an alternate route, and that



la we are pushing our own version for one of those of a



metropolitan system, and personally we have no desire to




add any empire to our little city down there.  We would Just



as soon be happy if we can get equal representation and equal



economic factors.



            If we get a fair bill, we would juat as soon



have them take over our area — I shouldn't say "just as



soon" -- we do prefer our own, but almost just as soon.




            We recognize that we are part of the metropolitan



area and that it is a major factor there.




            MR. STEIN:  Thank you.



            You know, it seems very anomalous —



            MR. PIDGEON:  By the way, if I may interrupt?



            MR. STEIN:  Go right ahead.



            MR. PIDGEON:  You asked about why we wanted a



regional plant.  One big reason is that every time we have a



flood, and we have them pretty often up here, still that




Minneapolis-St. Paul Sanitary District plant is out of commis-



sion.  The last big flood we had it was out for some sixty



days, or so.



            Bloomlngton is presently connected by >ay of the



City of Rldgefield, by way of the City of Minneapolis, by way

-------
                                                      530

                     J. 0. Pidgeon
of MSSD interceptors to that plant right now.  We had the
privilege of paying the bill for treatment during that
sixty-day period that they were letting it all flow down the
river.
          (Laughter.)
          By the way, we are not getting off the line by
our own choice either.  They have no room for us after about
1970.  We have to get off.
          MR. STEIN:  Again, this la simple, but let me make
just one remark.
          You know, it seems funny that the industries
these days which have been trying to treat their wastes from
time immemorial are looking for ways to hook up with the
municipal plants, because once they hook up with them they are
absolved from the legal and technical responsibility of treat-
ing their wastes.
          Maybe this is a phase that we are going through in
American life.  If it is, I think we have to recognize it if
we want clean streams and work with industry.  I think we should
recognize that you have a little different problem here and are
trying to do this at a different point in time than the other
metro systens were developed.  It is going to take some
really imag.native thinking and good will on our parts to get

-------
                                                      531
                       J. 0. Pidgeon
that going.
            MR. PIDGEON:  We are not quite that insolent.
We had two years ago at the last Legislature agreed to
support a metropolitan bill if we could find one that was
fair to us.
            Now, it all depends upon whose definition it is,
I guess, but we don't just want to run a treatment plant for
the sake of doing it, or for the sake of adding personnel,
or any such thing, but we do want a fair shake with equal
representation.
            MR. STEIN:  Right.  I am sure that is what the
issue is.
            MR. PIDGEON:  That is what everybody wants, but
they have different definitions.
            MR. STEIN:  Yes, sir.  Thank you very much.
            MR. ODEGARD:  With reference to this statement
that there shall be no further decrease in quality, this
point has come up several times now.
            I would like to have a clarification of the
meaning of that.
            MR. STEIN:  Mr. Prints, would you want to answer
that?
            MR. PRINTZ:  Mr. Chairman, as I indicated yester-
day in our prepared text, the recommendations were prepared

-------
                                                      532
                    J.  0.  Pldgeon
bearing in mind the guidelines for establishing water
quality standards for interstate waters.  These guidelines
were issued by the Secretary of the Interior May 10th, at
the time we moved over to the Department of the Interior.
            I would like to quote from Policy Guideline No.
1, which states:
            "Water quality standards should be designed
      to enhance the quality of the water.  If it is
      impossible to provide for prompt improvement in
      water quality at the time initial standards are
      set, the standards should be designed to prevent
      any increase in pollution.  In no case will
      standards providing for less than existing water
      quality be acceptable."
            The background behind this is that pollution in
this country has gone far enough that we have established a
base line.  The base line is the existing water quality.  If
others are to come in, there should perhaps be additional
treatment elsewhere, so that we can maintain existing water
quality, the purpose of the Act being twofold, one, to up-
grade, and the other to preserve.
            MR. ODEGARD:  Would this prevent the establish-
ment of new industries?
            MR. PRINTZ:  We don't feel so.

-------
                                                     533
              City of Hopkins, D. J. Thimsen


            MR. ODEGARD:  Well, this is what I am trying

to close in.  Part of the standards are suspended solids,


and if you are not going to permit any increases in suspended

solids, it would have to be 100 percent treatment.


            MR. PRINTZ:  You say if there are not to be any


increases in suspended solids you would need 100 percent


treatment, or you would need treatment so that the effluent

would be equivalent to the quality of the waters presently in

existence?


            MR. ODEGARD:  Yes.


            MR. PRINTZ:  May I leave with you a copy of these

guidelines (handing same to Mr. Odegard)?


            MR. ODEGARD:  Thank you.


            MR. STEIN:  Thank you.

            Mr. Smith?

            MR. SMITH:  I have next a statement from the City

of Hopkins.




            STATEMENT OF THE CITY OP HOPKINS, MINNESOTA,


            AS READ BY DONALD J. THIMSEN, MINNESOTA


                      DEPARTMENT OP HEALTH

            MR. THIMSEN:  This is a statement dated February

24, 1967, by R. L. Brubacher, City Manager.


            STATEMENT BY THE CITY OP HOPKINS, MINNESOTA

-------
                                                     534
              City of Hopkins, D. J. Thimsen
            For the Conference in the matter of Pollution
of the Interstate and Intrastate Waters of the Upper
Mississippi River and its Tributaries, convening Tuesday,
February 28, 1967* at 9:30 a.m., in Minneapolis, Minnesota.
            The City Council of the City of Hopkins wishes
to take this opportunity to compliment the Study Group and
its Director, Dr. Albert Printz, Jr., on their study of the
270 miles of the Upper Mississippi River and its major tribu-
taries.   We feel the study was very objective and attempted
to reflect a true picture of the conditions of the 270 miles
of river included in the study project.
            As interested and concerned residents of the
area involved in the project study we sincerely hope that
the Commission will continue its efforts to improve the
quality and recreational possibilities and natural beauty
within the study project.  We sincerely hope that the con-
ferees will give serious consideration of high rate phosphate
and nitrate removal treatment requirements of all wastes dis-
charged to these rivers.  The conservation and improvement
of all our natural resources is a concern of all citizens and
we urge the conferees to proceed with their further studies
and abatement programs as speedily as practical.
            We appreciate the opportunity to present our
statement to the distinguished panel.

-------
             City of Hopkins,  by D. J.  Thimsen          535




                           Sincerely yours,



                      /s/  R.  L. Brubacher



                           City Manager



            MR. STEIN:  Thank you very much,  sir.



            Are there any comments or questions?



            MR. DAMON:  Where is Hopkins?



            MR. STEIN:  Where is Hopkins?  Could you locate



it on the map, please?  Would you come up?



            MR. THIMSEN:  It is located just  west of



Minneapolis, right about where the "N" is here.



            MR. STEIN:  Thank you.



            Mr. Smith?



            MR. SMITH:  The next statement is from the



Commissioner of Public Works of the City of St. Paul.



            Is there anyone here to read this statement?



            (No response. )



            MR. SMITH:  Mr. Ginner?








            STATEMENT OF ROBERT P. PETERSON,  COMMIS-



            SIONER OP PUBLIC WORKS, ST. PAUL, MINNESOTA,



            AS READ BY GARY GINNER, MINNESOTA DEPARTMENT



                           OP HEALTH



            MR. GINNER:  Statement of Robert P. Peterson,



Commissioner of Public Works, Saint Paul, Minnesota, dated



February 28, 1967.

-------
                                                       536
          R. F. Peterson by G. Glnner
          The City of Saint Paul on February 7r 1964,
presented to the first session of this conference a state-
ment of views and activities concerning sewerage and the
Mississippi River in the Saint Paul area.  That previous
statement expressed very well our views and objectives and
recognized our responsibilities as one of the communities
located along the Mississippi River.  As set forth in this
previous statement, we have a great deal of Interest and
concern that our water resources be adequately protected and
preserved.  We are willing and anxious to cooperate with
others to the greatest extent possible and financially
feasible to attain these objectives.
          As for detailed comments on your report entitled
"Summary and Pollution Abatement Recommendations for the
Upper Mississippi and Major Tributaries," I wish to point
out that the sanitary sewage waste from our municipal sewer
system Is handled and treated by the Minneapolis-Saint Paul
Sanitary District.  This organization either has or will
present to this conference a detailed statement on its
activities.  The City of Saint Paul has worked closely with
the Minneapolis-Saint Paul Sanitary District and concurs with
the comments and recommendations of this Sanitary District.
          I might add, however, that we in Saint Paul were
somewhat disappointed that recognition was not made in

-------
                                                      537
             R. F. Peterson by G. Ginner
your report of the 27.1 million dollar Improvement to
the Minneapolis-Saint Paul Sanitary District's sewage
treatment plant, even though this plant modification was
conspicuously under construction during your survey period.
The placing of this plant improvement in operation will have
a dramatic effect on pollution conditions, particularly those
portrayed in Figures 9 and 10 following Page 7 of your
report.
          In addition to the operation of the treatment
plant, a matter of considerable concern to us, as well as
others, is the occasional overflow from the combined sewer
system.  During the course of the year, some 4 percent of
sewage does overflow through the operation of the overflow
regulators during periods of high storm water flows.  As
was indicated in our report of 1964, the rebuilding and
operational changes in these regulators is underway.  In
order to aid in the coordination of the betterment program
and to simplify the financing of it, both Minneapolis and
Saint Paul have transferred responsibility for the regulators
to the Minneapolis-Saint Paul Sanitary District in order to
minimize the overflow of raw sewage from these regulators.
The Minneapolis-Saint Paul Sanitary District is developing
concepts and procedures which are relatively new.  A
Federal demonstration grant has been obtained from the

-------
                                                      538
              R. F. Peterson by G. Ginner
Federal Water Pollution Control Administration.  This pro-
gram will ultimately involve some two million dollars of
expenditures financed by the cities of Minneapolis and
Saint Paul and we are confident that its completion will
bring about significant Improvements in pollution control.
          In addition to collaborating and supporting the
treatment plant and regulator improvements, it is the
continuing goal of the City of Saint Paul to replace com-
bined sewers with separate storm and sanitary systems.
Wherever the opportunity occurs whether in redevelopment
or relief sewer construction, new systems are designed
as separate sewers or are designed to be compatible or
adaptable to separation at some future date.  Sewers being
constructed in the few remaining unsewered areas in the
city are designed as separate systems.  Complete separation
of all of the presently sewered areas is a very costly
undertaking and one that appears to be beyond the financial
capabilities of the city at this time.  However, we do plan
to continue these activities to the maximum extend possible
and many millions of dollars are being spent for this sewer
work, all as set 'forth in our 1964 report.
          In closing, Mr. Chairman and ladies and gentlemen,
I would like to again emphasize that we are very much
aware of the problem of maintaining proper river water

-------
                                                        539
               R. P. Peterson by G. Ginner
qualities in the Mississippi River.  Saint Paul has and
will continue to cooperate with other interested parties
in controlling and reducing water pollution to the greatest
extent that we can.
          Thank you very much.
                              /S/  Robert  P.  Peterson

-------
              Board of Water Commissioners, City
              of St. Paul, by D. J. Thimsen
            MR. STEIN:  Thank you.
            Are there any comments or questions?
            (No response. )
            MR. STEIN:  If not, Mr. Smith?
            MR. SMITH:  I have one more from the Board of
Water Commissioners of the City of St. Paul.
            Is there someone here to read this statement?
            (No response.)
            MR. SMITH:  Mr. Thimsen?

            STATEMENT OP BOARD OP WATER COMMISSIONERS,
            CITY OP ST. PAUL, AS READ BY DONALD J.
            THIMSEN, MINNESOTA DEPARTMENT OP HEALTH
            MR. THIMSEN:  Statement of the Board of Water
Commissioners of the City of St. Paul.
            For presentation by Mr. Clifford W. Hamblin,
(Jeneral Manager, St. Paul Water Department, February 28,
1967, at 9:30 a.m., at the Leamington Hotel, Minneapolis,
Minnesota, at the second  session of the Federal-State con
ference in the matter of  pollution of the interstate and
intrastate waters of the  Upper Mississippi River and its
tributaries.

Mr. Chairman:

-------
              Board of Water Commissioners, City
                of St. Paul, by D. J. Thimsen

            The Board of Water Commissioners of the City of

St. Paul, whose responsibility it is to provide a potable

water to the population of St. Paul and all adjacent suburbs

thereto, are most vitally concenerd with the sanitary quali-

ties of the Mississippi River and its tributaries.  The

Mississippi River and waters of the Rice Creek watershed, a

tributary of the Mississippi River, are utilized as sources

of the St. Paul water supply system.  Our intake on the

Mississippi River is located in the City of Pridley and on

the Rice Creek watershed in the Village of Centerville on

Lake Centerville.  We believe it imperative that all possible

means be taken to control pollution above these intakes to

safeguard against any sanitary hazard that could be harmful

to our water supply system.

            The Federal Water Pollution Control Administra-

tion's Summary Report recommends that wastes such as sludge

from our water treatment plant which discharges into a

municipal sewerage system be pretreated to avoid any detri-

mental effect on waste treatment operation.  We are pleased

to report that the Board of Water Commissioners completed a

construction project in the fall of 1966 by which the sludge

lagoon dikes were raised to an elevation sufficient to give

us approximately five years more of sludge and storage

-------
                                                           542
              Board of Water Commissioners, City
                of St. Paul, by D. J. Thimsen
capacity.  The overflow elevation has been raised.  This
allows maximum sedimentation of sludge solids in the lagoon
before the supernatant overflows into the sewerage system.
The effective life of the lagoon, of course, can be extended
by excavation of dried sludge from the lagoon with truck
haulage to the dump sites.  In addition, the Board has sub-
mitted an application to the United States Department of
Housing and Urban Development for a grant to aid in the
financing of major improvements at the water treatment plant,
including facilities for reclaiming filter backwash water and
lime recovery from sludge.  In this regard a preliminary
engineering report has been completed on such facilities.
Notification of grant approval will enable us to authorize
immediate preparation of construction plans and contract
documents followed by actual construction.
            Provision of filter backwash water reclaiming and
lime recovery will satisfactorily provide for all wastes from
the plant for the foreseeable future.
            MR. STEIN:  Thank you.
            Are there any comments or questions?
            (No response.)
            MR. STEIN:  If not, we will stand recessed for
ten minutes.

-------
               Natural History Society, by G. Glnner






            (Whereupon a recess was had.)



            MR. STEIN:  May we reconvene?  I think we may be



approaching the last lap.



            Mr. Smith?




            MR. SMITH:  Are there any other industries and



municipalities represented here who wish to make a statement



who have not been called upon?



            (No response.)



            MR. SMITH:  If not, we have some civic organiza-



tions and sportsmen's clubs who have indicated that they wish



to make a statement.



            The first one is the Natural History Society.



Is there, someone here to read their statement?



            (No response. )



            MR. SMITH:  Mr. Ginner?








            STATEMENT OP THE NATURAL HISTORY SOCIETY,



            AS READ BY GARY GINNER, MINNESOTA DEPART-



                        MENT OF HEALTH



            MR. GINNER:  For the Conference on Pollution



of the Interstate and Intrastate Waters of the Upper



Mississippi River and Tributaries (Minnesota-Wisconsin).




Called Tuesday, February 28th, 196?, at 9:30 a.m., in



Minneapolis, Minnesota.

-------
              Natural History Society, by G. Ginner



            We the members of the Natural History Society



have habitually opposed the contamination of air, water and



soil by unwise use of chemicals and indiscriminate dumping of



household and industrial wastes.  It is our belief that com-



prehensive research must be conducted to prevent unnecessary



pollution of these most important natural resources for the



good of all living things.  Further we believe that a massive



attack by local, State and National governments coordinated



with individual and industrial effort must be made to alle-



viate scandalous dimension of the present pollution.  We



believe that standards must be established to protect the



populace of these United States as evidenced in the pollution




of both air, water and soil in the State of Minnesota, and



specifically in the Watershed of the Mississippi and its



tributaries as herein designated.



            In view of the seriousness of phosphate and nitrate



contamination of these waters we recommend a special process



for their removal from all waste discharged into these




waters.  In view of the recreational potential of these



waters and the necessity to*»intain the purity of these



waters at such a level that human, fish and wildlife may



safely use them we strongly urge that such steps be taken



to maintain that purity.  We believe that a deviation from



these standards is both undesirable and unnecessary and that

-------
                                                       545



               Natural History Society, by G. Ginner



the responsibility rests squarely upon citizen and govern-



ment and pledge that we will assist the agency or agencies



responsible for such standards.



            We feel privileged to make this statement and



acknowledge our responsibility in arriving at a desirable



end so badly needed now and in the future.



            Dr. Clayton G. Rudd, President



            /S/ Clayton G. Rudd








            MR. STEIN:  Thank you.



            Are there any comments or questions?



            (No response. )



            MR. STEIN:  If not, Mr. Smith, will you continue?



            MR. SMITH:  The next statement is from the League




of Women Voters.



            Is someone here to present that statement?








            STATEMENT OP MRS. WILLIAM WHITING, PRESIDENT



            OP THE LEAGUE OP WOMEN VOTERS OP MINNESOTA








            MR§. WHITING:  I am Mrs. William Whiting,




President of the League of Women Voters, and I have a state-



ment prepared by our Water Resources Chairman, Mrs. Mann.



I believe you have copies of it.

-------
                                                     546
                Mrs. Wm. Whiting

          The League of Women Voters of Minnesota would

like to thank: the Minnesota Water Pollution Control Commis-

sion for the invitation to participate in this conference.

That members of the League of Women Voters have had a

continued Interest in water resources for the past ten

years is well-known to most of the people here today.

          Recently, League members nationwide participated

in further study of water resources, focusing their atten-

tion on the problems of industrial pollution abatement.

Study and discussion by local Leagues built up an impressive

amount of information on what members think about the many

aspects of water pollution control.

          Realizing that there are over 6,000 women in

local Leagues in Minnesota alone who are asking questions,

going on tours and discussing water resource problems with

their families and friends as well as with other League

members, it could be said that there is an aroused public

interest in this field.  There was not a tendency to blame

someone for pollution, for members obviously recognized

that the time for finger-pointing is past and the time for

action is now.

          As a result of member consensus, the following

statement of position on Federal financial assistance to

industry to expedite control of water pollution was released

-------
                  Mrs. Wm. Whiting
by the League of Women Voters of the United States in
January 196?.
          "The League of Women Voters of the United
          States supports limited Federal financial
          assistance to industry as a means of expediting
          abatement of water pollution.
          Although the League thinks that costs of
          pollution abatement are a responsibility of
          the polluter, it acknowledges that some help
          should be made available because of the urgency
          and immediacy of the problem and the immense
          costs involved.  League members agree that:
          1......strict enforcement of anti-pollution
               measures should accompany financial assistance
          2......duration and scope of assistance should be
               limited.
          3	criteria for assistance should include
               consideration of financial need of the
               company, economic base of the community,
               area stream standards, extent and complexity
               of the pollution problem of the company and
               region."
          (National Voter, League of Women Voters of the
          U.S., Vol. XVI, Feb. 1967.)

-------
                                                       548
                 Mrs. Wm. Whiting

          Prom the comments of Minnesota Leagues, it was

obvious that members were concerned that water quality

standards be enforced and that the several levels of

government work out the most effective manner possible for

setting and enforcing standards.

          A majority of the Leagues checked out their own

communities to determine the status of local municipal and

industrial waste treatment facilities.  Some were pleased

with the progress that had been made, others were not so

happy.  Members of the Red Wing League of Women Voters met

the challenge of the local editor and took a trip by barge

up the Mississippi to St. Paul.  This was reported in a

full-page newspaper article with pictures.  It was orobably

a wise decision not to do this by canoe as was originally

suggested.  The Summary Report of the Task Force supported

that decision.

          In the Twin Cities metropolitan area, Leagues

reviewed proposals for a metropolitan sanitary district.

No decision was made about such details as how this should

be financed.  It was apparent, however, that League members

recognized that there must be some coordinating body

established.  This has been discussed here all day.  This

same idea is expressed very well on Page 22 of the Summary

and Pollution Abatement Recommendations under Metropolitan

Problems.

-------
                                                     549
                  Mrs. Win. Whiting
          Because it is recognized that the enforcement

of pollution control is a tremendous task whether it is

done at the State or Federal level, the League of Women

Voters testified before the Appropriations Committees of

the Minnesota Legislature supporting adequate funds for

staffing the Water Pollution Control Commission.  Until

budget requests are realistically met, demands for im-

proved water quality and stricter enforcement by the

public and by law cannot be carried out.  Even more basic

to these decisions is a lack of Information regarding al-

ternatives.  What effect the standards will have in respect

to demands for recreational needs in the metropolitan area

is an example.  We turned to agencies staffed by engineers

to take care of polluted water.  Now we are beginning to

ask about the total regional impact of pollution, the real

economic and amenity costs of it.  There has appeared to

be little comprehensive analysis.  Perhaps the engineers

feel they have more than enough to answer without taking

on these additional responsibilities, but who then is to

provide this information.

          There are increasing and varied demands for

clean, open water, that suggest far heavier demands in

the years Immediately ahead.  There is a growing and deep-

-------
                                                        550
                  Mrs, Wm. Whiting

rooted concern about the quality of our environment and

the threats to this quality from the wastes of an expanding

technology.  With the increased affluence of our society

there has been a recognition of the values of preserved

outdoor amenities and aesthetically attractive surround-

ings.  To complicate the matter further, there is still

a marked movement of the population to metropolitan areas,

Increased demands for material goods, and increased leisure

for recreational pursuits.  The continued strengthening

of pollution control legislation attests to the concern

of the people that something has to be done.  It appears

it is time for effective action.  We can no longer treat

water as a free good that Is used but once and discarded.

          In the field of water pollution, people are in need

of information, of alternatives.  Public support behind

pollution control orders will prove to be the most effective

sanction.  It is in this arena of activity the League of

Women Voters, through membership education and interest,

will continue to contribute toward improvement of water

quality.  Thank you.

          MR. STEIN:  Thank you.  Do you want the rest of

these statements inserted in the record?

          MRS. WHITING:  Yes.  That is why we presented them.

          MR. STEIN:  These will be inserted as if read.

-------
                                                        551
                  Mrs. Wm. Whiting
            (The following documents were submitted for


inclusion in the record:





LWV of Minnesota, State Organization Service, U. of M.,


Minneapolis, Minn.
              EXCERPTS FROM REPORTS OP LOCAL


    LEAGUES OP INDUSTRIAL POLLUTION IN THEIR COMMUNITIES






            Owatonna;  Our city engineer said our industrial


pollution was well naken care of.  Industry can dump a cer-


tain amount of waste into local sewage plant.  If they go


over the amount allowed they are assessed by the city.


Local plants use chemicals to treat waste and some plants


have built area dumping lots near their plants.  Industry


pollution is being checked constantly by city engineer.


Our local sewage plant has been adequate but we are adding


another new addition.


            Wlllmar ;  The pollution of the lakes by the


railroad, state hospital and home owners has been stopped


and for quite a while.  All business and the State Hos-


pital use the Municipal Sewers.  There are two businesses --


Central Dairy and Farmers Produce that use a great volume

-------
                                                        552
                  Mrs. Wm. Whiting

of water in their business and dump a great quantity of water

(I would guess quite pure) into the storm sewer system and

thus get a reduced commercial rate.  Business that uses water

for air conditioning in the summer has its water rate adjust-

ed.  Business and private home owners and renters pay a sewer

charge based on the amount of water they use for selected

months of the year.  The sewer plant is becoming too small

and there are plans in the future to expand it and move it

as the new junior high school will be built in the farm land

across the road.  There are large areas which have septic

tanks which will no doubt be joined to the city sewer system.

There are no large problems as to my knowledge.

            St. Paul-  Probably the worst example in this  city

is the sewage discharge from the meat-packing plants in South

St. Paul.  This sewage is given only primary treatment before

going into the Mississippi River.  No solution to this situa-

tion appears to be developing at present.

            Edina;  I asked George Hite, our Village Engineer

for Edina, if there were any cases of industrial pollution in

Edina.  At this time, there are no industrial polluters in

Edina.  A few years ago there was a problem with a dairy,  but

this was resolved when the dairy was connected to the munici-

pal system.  Edina has 13 wells providing water.  Edina con-

tracts with the Minneapolis-St. Paul Sanitary District for

-------
                                                       553
                  Mrs. Wm. Whiting

sewage removal.  Mr. Kite stated that the Village did not

mind the present charges for sewage disposal but did dislike

the lack of representation.

            Anoka;  No industrial pollution.  Anoka State Hos-

pital (on Rum River which drains into the Mississippi) was a

major offender until 1956 when it went into the City of Anoka

secondary treatment plant.

            The City of Anoka faces a necessary expansion of

its plant.  Anoka takes care of the State Hospital, Mercy

Hospital in Coon Rapids, and the village of Champlin also.

A study group has reported and no doubt concrete plans will

be forthc oming.

            Coon Rapids;  No known industrial pollution.

Member of N.S.S.D.  Coon Rapids is being sewered via intercep-

tors to Pigs Eye.  1/3 is now sewered and no date for comple-

tion but work is proceeding and plans are laid out for the

entire city that can be feasibly sewered.

            St. Anthony Village;  Our sewage is transported

to Pigs Eye - felt there was need for more favorable or fair

way of costing for any community, not necessarily only our

own.  Ideally, effluent charges would be most fair when and

if possible.

            Silver Bay;  We are very fortunate not to have

a pollution problem in our community.

-------
                                                      55**
                     Mrs. Wra.  Whiting



          Northfield:  We did  a brief survey of our Canon



River situation, talking with  the City Engineer, County



Planning and Zoning and Health officials,  local businessmen,



and members of interested groups.  All industries in North-



field are connected to the municipal sewage treatment plant,



so that there is no local problem.  The river,  however, is



polluted from various sources  upstream, and we  suffer from



their folly.  As of now we have only been  able  to write a



few letters of protest as individuals.  If we decide to do a



local study on this, of course, much more  will  be done.


          St. Cloud;  The St.  Cloud area Metropolitan Planning



Commission, St. Cloud Health Dept., and League  of Women Voters



sponsored an Environmental Health Study, just recently com-


pleted.  Included in this study was a survey of all water and



sewer systems, contamination,  and systematic recording of all



pollution, private, governmental, and industrial, along the



Watab, Salk and Mississippi Rivers.  The results of this



survey were used in our discussion, and will be published



within the next couple of months, with recommendations hope-



fully being acted upon at that time.



          Worthington;  Worthington completed a new sewage



disposal plant about 3 years ago without any State or Federal



assistance.  This modern plant combines both primary and



secondary treatment of the effluent.


          We have two major industries, Armour's and

-------
                                                       555
                  Mrs. Wm. Whiting

Campbell Soup.  The City spent $500,000 more just building

lagoons and a sewer line for Armour's which processes hogs.

The retirement of cost, maintenance and operation of the

disposal plant is paid by the users.  Private individuals

pay monthly 75 percent of their average water bill for the

months of January through March.  Commercial establishments

pay a straight 75 percent of their monthly water bill.

Armour's and Campbell Soup pay 50 percent of their monthly

water bill.  Since they use two-thirds of the water pumped

each day, they pay a major part of the operation.  The sewage

of these companies goes through grease pits where the grease

is skimmed off before the effluent enters the disposal plant.

This has been a reasonably satisfactory solution to the local
problem.

            New Brighton;  There have been reports at various

times of pollution of Long Lake by rendering plant and/or
land fill dumps.  Local government has ordered this stopped.

            Most of the village Is served by sanitary sewers.

            Albert^ Lea;  Albert Lea has adequate sewage

treatment now.  A study made by local Interested citizens,

state and local authorities several years ago has resulted

in dredging of the lake and the establishment of a sewage

system in a new housing area.  Our largest industry, the

Wilson plant, has its own excellent treatment plant,

-------
                  Mrs. Wm. Whiting



established as a result of local pressure and the State



WPCC.  If Albert Lea grows our treatment plant will not be



adequate and there are some outlying areas of pollution



now.



            Bemidji;  There is no particular problem in the



local system.  The disposal plant is adequate up to a



20 percent population increase.  An additional fill would



bring the sewerage disposal up to peak position.



            Perhaps private homes on the lake shore of



Lake Bemidji could raise the bacterial count.



            A study of the Nu-Ply Corporation Report Is at-



tached to this sheet which shows, at present, no industrial



pollution.



            Most "polluters" are private citizens.



            Arden Hjlls;  Ours is the problem of the Metro-



politan Sanitary Sewer District.  Shorevlew area has very



little industry.  We are as a group studying the publication



Metropolitan Sanitary Sewer District in 196?.



            Frldley;  Frldley residents are making sure



safeguards will be taken to protect and maintain the natural



beauty of Rice Creek as It flows five miles through Fridley



into the Mississippi River.  Concerned citizens began dis-



cussing the problem of water control last spring when the



water level went higher than It had for over sixty years.

-------
                  Mrs. Wm. Whiting                    557



At a recent organizational meeting, by laws for* the Rice



Creek Association were adopted and officers elected.



            The association, which is limited to Pridley



residents, formally declares its purpose "to preserve,



maintain, protect and promote the natural beauty and con-



stant uniform flow of Rice Creek."  However, It seriously



is considering the need for a watershed district to help



eliminate uneven and excessive run off from upstream areas.



The Rice Creek Watershed District, if created, would most



likely Include some 25 communities, taking in 190 square



miles.



            Golden Valley;  Golden Valley, according to



the village engineer, doesn't have a water pollution prob-



lem.  We have no industries that discharge effluent of any



great quantity into our city sewer system and there aren't



any streams large enough to be used for carrying away waste,



            Austin:  Austin has no Industrial sewage prob-



lem because the Geo. A. Hormel Co., our biggest industry,



is paying two million dollars for a sewage treatment plant



for the city.  The city built it and by so doing the Hormel



Company does not have to pay property taxes on the plant.



Our worst problem is the pollution of several streams by



cess pools and direct drainage from out of city limits



homes.  These are gradually being cleaned up as new areas

-------
                                                       558
                  Mrs. Wm. Whiting


are brought Into the city.  Strict enforcement of present


laws would help speed up this trend.  Until the streams are


free of sewage, our one lake is unfit for recreation.


            Columbia Heights;  We have no industrial water


pollution.  City officials have watched closely air pollu-


tion.  Recently they requested Cargill to use equipment to


stop flax dust.


            Moorhead;  We are just now building a municipal


fddition to our sewage disposal plant (mechanical) with a


Federal grant of 1/3 of the cost.  One of our offenders,


a creamery, will be included under the municipal facilities,


and will pay user charges.  Another offender, a sugar beet


plant, will not be included, as it is outside of the munici-


pal plant's limits, and so will continue its systematic


method of polluting our river.  This influences our strong


attitude about enforcing the laws currently on the books


rather than inducing the companies to comply.


            Hibblng-(Chisholm);  Hibbing has no problem at


this time.


            Chisholm just corrected their raw sewage dis-


posal.


            Was told our neighbor to the west, Nashwauk,


empties raw sewage in a lake.


            Granite Falls;  Local problems are handled by

-------
                                                      559
                  Mrs. Wm. Whiting
local taxes and our industrial plant.  Plews Oiler Company
has their own controlled system which partially purifies
water before it goes into the municipal system.
            Brooklyn Center;  Brooklyn Center does not have
an industrial pollution problem.  If in the future industrial
waste should become excessive, local ordinance requires pre-
treatment of sewage.
            (Brooklyn Center has a contract with the Minnea-
polis - St. Paul Sanitary District.  Industry uses this
disposal system.)
                        * *
LVJV of Minnesota, State Organization Service, U. of M.,
Minneapolis, Minn. 55^55


         EXCERPTS FROM REPORTS OF LOCAL LEAGUES
      ON A STUDY OF POLLUTION ABATEMENT INCENTIVES


            From the consensus reports on the national
consensus it appears that the role of the state was seen as
mainly enforcement and setting water quality standards.
            Nearly all members agreed that the state needed
a stricter enforcement program.  It was suggested that more

-------
                                                        560
                  Mrs. Wm. Whiting


personnel be hired for the W.P.C.C.  Approximately 1/3 of


the units recommended an effluent charge.  They felt that


an effluent charge would compel industries to install pollu-


tion abatement equipment.  Also, the money collected could


be used to finance municipal treatment facilities for indus-


trial wastes.


            Some felt that the state needed more uniform


standards of water quality.  There was a strong feeling that


the members wished to keep control of the water pollution


problem at the state level rather than at the Federal level.


            Members recognized the difficulty here as In-


volving competition between states for Industry.  Although


we view the problem of pollution on interstate waterways as


a national concern, three of five units thought the state


should consider some type of tax relief or incentive.


            We did, however, include the role of the state


in the over-all problem of pollution abatement in our dis-


cussion.  The general feeling was in favor of greater


coordination and cooperation between Federal, state and


local agencies with special emphasis on planning for River


Basin or Water Management districts, representing all areas


of the state.


            Strict enforcement at all levels as soon as  the


water standards are set.  Those in favor of aid by government

-------
                                                        561
                  Mrs. Wta. Whiting


felt that this should be at the Federal level for uniform-


ity, with state cooperation.


            We advocate uniform state legislation and good


enforcement policies.  It was suggested the pollution


problem be alleviated through existing state and Federal


agencies, rather than creating a new separate devl.  Legis-


lation to prohibit raw sewage from ships and boats on


Minn.'s waterways is in order.  Perhaps realistic, higher


user charges to both domestic and industrial users would


help to preserve this dwindling, precious commodity.


Recognition via the news media should be devoted to those


industries successfully making gains in pollution control.


            We all felt that Federal control would provide


consistent treatment to all companies, would eliminate the


threat of losing industry to other locations, and would


provide an enforcement agency for the states.  We did not


have enough time to develop the state's position but all

felt that the Water Pollution Control Commission should


work to its fullest capabilities.


            Enforcement legislation should be on uniform

Federal basis.


            Standards for water pollution control should


be in effect in all intra-state waterways.


            Members felt that stricter enforcement of

-------
                                                     562-
                  Mrs. Wm. Whiting
present laws and regulations would force industry in our
state to clean the water they use.
            We feel Federal 'feticks" are mandatory.  State
may participate under the Federal organization and enabling
legislation.

                       * # *


LWV of Minnesota, State Organization Service, U. of M.,
Minneapolis, Minn. 55^55


STATEMENT PREPARED BY THE LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS OF
MINNESOTA FOR THE SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE MINNESOTA SENATE
FINANCE COMMITTEE HEARING ON THE 196?-9 BUDGET OF THE
     MINNESOTA DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH


            The League of Women Voters of the United States
has been concerned with the problems of water management
since the topic was first placed on its national study
agenda in 1956.  Our members have worked to support com-
prehensive long-range planning for conservation and develop-
ment of water resources and improvement of water quality.
In order to better understand the intergovernmental prob-
lems of water resource planning, we have twice published

-------
                                                     563
                  Mrs. Wm. Whiting

studies in Minnesota surveying the work of the Water

Pollution Control Commission (KNOW YOUR RIVER BASIN

SURVEY, I960; ON THE WATERFRONT, Mpls. League, 1965).  We

have followed with Interest the Commission's efforts to

establish quality standards for our interstate waterways

as required by the Federal Water Quality Act of 1965* for

which our League lobbied in Washington.

            Representing the 69 Leagues of Minnesota, we are

today concerned with the problem of adequately financing the

work of the Water Pollution Control Commission's staff in

the Department of Health.  In 1965, the staff's wide range

of charges included study of the quality of waters in the

state; review of plans and issuance of permits for construc-

tion and operation of municipal and industrial waste disposal

facilities; investigation of pollution reports; administra-

tion of certain grant provisions of the Federal Water Pollu-

tion Control Act; and cooperation with local, state and

Federal agencies concerned with state water pollution prob-

lems.  Even at that time these duties proved too numerous

for the budgeted staff of 35 to maintain frequent and regular

surveillance of water quality conditions throughout the

state.

            With the passage of the Federal Water Quality

Act of 1965, the duties of the Commission were expanded to

-------
                                                      564
                  Mrs. Wm. Whiting


provide for adoption and Implementation of water qualify


criteria for interstate waters.  Such criteria are to be


established by June 30, 196?.  Although the Water Pollu-


tion Control staff obtained money to support 5 new positions


between 1965 and 6? from a Contingency Fund through the


Legislative Advisory Committee, the enormous amount of time


required to make background studies and conduct hearings for


the establishment of water quality criteria has continued  to


deny coverage of the Commission's legislated range of activi-


ties.  Standards have now been set for portions of the


Mississippi River and for the Minnesota, Red, and Rainy


Rivers, but much is left to be done to complete the job and


the problem of Implementing those standards which have been


set has not been covered.


            Data compiled in 1964 by the Public Administration


Service, Chicago, under contract with the U. S. Department


of Health, Education and Welfare show that the minimum


staff necessary to operate the Minnesota WPCC would number


58.  Desirably, the staff should number 104.  These figures


were recommended before the 1965 Water Quality Act enlarged


the Section's obligations.


            In the requested budget of the Department of


Health for the 1967-9 biennium, the Section on Water


Pollution Control asks for funds to support a total staff

-------
                                                       565
                   Mrs. Wra. Whiting

of 65.  The Governor's recommended budget grants funds
which would support only the 35 persons employed by the
Section in 1965.  It would, according to the Section's
Executive Engineer, not cover the 5 positions recently
authorized by the Legislative Advisory Committee.
             Of the 40 positions authorized at the end
of 1966, 13 positions are now vacant, primarily because
the Commission is unable to meet salary competition.
Because of lack of budgeted funds, the Civil Service has
not allowed flexibility in setting initial salaries at higher
steps than classified, thus lowering the Section's competi-
tive status in hiring professional personnel vis-a-vis both

Industry and pollution control agencies in other states.
             According to the February 10, 1967 Minneapolis
TRIBUNE, a long-awaited study of the Twin Cities area, Upper
Mississippi River Basin by the Federal Water Pollution
Control Commission will be published February 28 in conjunc-
tion with a Federal pollution enforcement conference in
Minneapolis.  The study Is reported to recommend a three-year

timetable for cleaning up the rivers from Mankato and Anoka
to Red Wing which are "now too polluted for even limited
human contact activities such as boating... If this timetable
is adopted by the conference and the Secretary of the

Interior, it will be returned to the WPCC and its Wisconsin

-------
                                                      566




                   Mrs. Wm. Whiting



counterpart, which must then act to insure that the pro-



posed water quality standards are met." .  . .  "if the



state agencies fail to act, the Federal government can



intervene."



             The League of Women Voters feels  that it is



pointless to assign additional responsibilities to the



Commission without increasing funds to hire the people to



do the work.  We urge that the Minnesota Legislature grant



the Water Pollution Control Commission and its staff the



funds to enable it to properly accomplish its  tasks, of the



utmost importance to the health and welfare of our citizens



and to the attractiveness of the state as a national



recreation area.
                           # # *

-------
                                                                  567
                              A     METROPOLITAN
                                                  SANITARY
                                                  DISTRICT
                                                         IN
                                   A Review of Past and Present Proposals For A

                                     Twin Cities Metropolitan Sewage District
October 1966
Prepared by the Ad Hoc Metropolitan Water Resources Committee
                of the Minnesota League of Women Voters

-------
                                                       568
                   Mrs. Wm. Whiting

             The League of Women Voters of the United

States has been concerned with the problems of water

management since the topic was first placed on its national

study agenda in 1956.  In I960, the national position was

stated by its members as follows:

             "Support of national policies and pro-

     cedures which promote comprehensive long-range

     planning for conservation and development of

     water resources and improvement of water

     quality.  Among these policies are:  a) better

     coordination and elimination of conflicts in

     policy at the federal level;  b) machinery

     appropriate to each region which provides

     coordinated planning and administration;  c) cost

     sharing by government and private interests in

     relation to benefits received and ability to pay."

             The League has strongly emphasized within this

position the importance of citizen participation in consider-

ation of alternative plans for water development.  The people

who will have to live with the resulting development should

be able to make choices before irrevocable decisions are

made.  This study of metropolitan sanitary district proposals

for state legislation has been prepared to enlarge the

understanding of all Minnesotans concerning some of the

-------
                                                       569
                   Mrs. Wm. Whiting
available methods of satisfying metropolitan sewerage
need s.

                     INTRODUCTION

             Since the creation of the Minneapolis-St.  Paul
Sanitary District (MSPSD) by the 1933 State Legislature, the
Twin Cities have been provided with sewage disposal facilities
ahead of those in other large Mississippi River cities.  The
rapid growth rate of the Twin Cities metropolitan area, how-
ever, now requires the extension of equally good disposal
systems to unsewered suburban areas.
             The authorized limits of the present MSPSD are
those of the two core cities, Minneapolis and St. Paul.  Areas
adjacent to the cities may contract with either city or the
District for disposal service.  At present, there are 39 such
contracting areas.  These contracting communities are not rep-
resented on the governing board of the District, and therefore
cannot resolve fee inequity except through the courts.
             The Twin Cities metropolitan population is
estimated to be 4,000,000 by the year 2000.  At least 77
suburbs will require new or expanded sewage treatment facili-
ties by that date.  Concerned parties have seen that required
expansion should be undertaken by a responsible agency

-------
                                                        570
                   Mrs. Wra. 'Whiting

representative of the total area which would insure a

coordinated, long-range program of safe and proper waste

disposal in waters which are continually overtaxed by multiple

uses.  Such an agency should select those plans for expansion

which result in the least cost to the metropolitan area as a

whole and affect the area in a uniform manner.

             An incentive for cooperative planning has

recently been provided by the Federal Water Quality Act of

1965.  A 10 percent bonus in Federal grant funds is available

under the Act for community sewage works construction "that

is part of a comprehensive metropolitan development plan."

             Proposals for state legislation establishing a

metropolitan sewerage agency have been advanced and defeated

before each session of the Minnesota Legislature since 1961.

In preparation for the  '6? legislative session, sewer study

committees and civic groups in the core cities and suburbs are

aligning themselves behind specific proposals.  Based on the

experience of past sessions, there is little possibility for

passage of sewage district legislation until l) a clear

majority of metropolitan legislators agree on basic formulas

concerning the financing, administration and geographical area

of a metropolitan sanitary district; and 2) legislators from

the state as a whole are stimulated to take action on the

metropolitan sewerage problem.

-------
                   Mrs. Wm. Whiting                   571
  HISTORY OP METROPOLITAN SANITARY DISTRICT PROPOSALS








             In 1927* the Minnesota State Legislature



created the Metropolitan Drainage Commission to investigate



and recommend alternative solutions for the abatement of



pollution caused by the discharge of untreated sewage Into



the water courses of the area.  All of the early trunk



sewers, some dating back to l8?0, were routed directly to



the river.  By 1930 the total outflow capacity of all out-



lets in the Twin Cities area was two and one-half times the



average flow of the Mississippi River.



             The Drainage Commission studied some forty



alternative projects.  The project selected as most desir-



able was a system of Intercepting sewers (intercepting=serv-



ing more than one area) terminating at a single treatment



plant for both cities, located downriver from the center of



population at Pigs Eye Island in Southeast St. Paul.



             The Legislature in 1933 established the



Minneapolis-St. Paul Sanitary District to provide the system



of sewage collection and treatment recommended by the Drain-



age Commission.  From 1933 to 19^0, the District expended



over 10 million dollars for the construction of those works



which today would cost over $50 million.  The facilities

-------
                                                         572
                   Mrs. Wm. Whiting

constructed at that time were designed to serve only about

122,000 acres as compared with the present area of about

250,000 acres.  Primary treatment removing an estimated

35 percent of the "pollutional load" of the sewage was

effected before the effluent (residue) flowed into the

Mississippi.  The District was, and is, governed by a Board

of seven trustees: three from each central city and one

appointed by the Governor as a member outside the District.

             The post-World War II housing boom so rapidly

increased the size of the metropolitan community in both area

and population that the design boundaries which originally

were thought to be adequate until 1970 were surpassed in the

late 19^0's.  In addition, many of the suburban fringe com-

munities developed without regard for the availability of

public sewerage systems.  This growth created an urgent need

for additional sewer capacity with a backlog of homes which

were struggling to get by with individual disposal systems,

often in soil conditions which would not support this means.

(Between April, 1959, and December, 1961, Department of

Health surveys revealed that in 39 suburbs 47.5 percent of

private home water wells showed evidence of contamination by

sewage).  As communities began contracting for MSPSD service,

Minneapolis found it necessary to undertake major construc-

tion projects for the exclusion of storm water (street and

-------
                   Mrs. Wm. Whiting                   573



roof drainage) from its major trunk and interceptor sewers



to provide capacity for additional amounts of suburban



sewage.



             The "design flow" of the Pigs Eye plant of



134 million gallons a day was reached in 1952, fourteen years



after the plant went into operation.








The Five-Year Study








             In 1956, the Board of Trustees of the Sanitary



District authorized a five-year $500,000 program of research



and investigation to determine the requirements until the



year 2000 for metropolitan sewage works expansion.



             The approximate dimensions of the area studied



were 3^ miles north and south and 30 miles east and west, an



area of over 1,000 square miles.  In addition, the studies



included a 114 square mile area surrounding Lake Minnetonka.



Eighty-two separate city, village or township units were



situated within the main study area, with 21 more in the



Lake Minnetonka Area.



             To facilitate the development and presentation



of a plan of sewage works projects, the area was divided into



six major units referred to as regions (seen on map on



page 567). The regional limits were based on such factors as

-------
                                                      574
                   Mrs. Wm. Whiting

topography, political boundaries, expected direction of popu-

lation growth, and location and capacity of existing works.

             The more than 200 combinations of projects con-

sidered under the Five-Year Program were finally resolved into

four alternative Metropolitan projects.  Two of these projects

were based on conveying the area's sewage to one central treat-

ment plant at the Pig's Eye Island location, while the other

two involved using one or two regional plants on the Mississ-

ippi and Minnesota Rivers in addition to the central plant on

the lower river.  The Lake Minnetonka Region was excluded from

consideration as part of a metropolitan district in these final

reports (see section on Geographical Area of the District,

page 15).  No consideration of political reorganization of a

district board in order to give equitable representation of

the regions was reported in the published results of the Five-

Year Study, September, 1960.

             As the Pive-Year Study was concluded, the 1961

Legislature voted on a bill which would have created an ex-

panded Metropolitan Sanitary District.  The bill passed the

House but died in the Senate.  Recognizing, however, the

crucial needs for sewerage systems in the suburbs, the 1961

Legislature passed a bill which enabled a group of five

northern suburbs (Blaine, Coon Rapids, Fridley, Mounds View,

and Spring Lake Park) to form their own regional Sanitary

-------
                                                     575
                    Mrs. Wm. Whiting
District (NSSD - Northern Suburban Sanitary District,
further described on pp. 15, 11, 18).
            With the failure of the 1961 metropolitan bill,
the Trustees of MSPSD decided to proceed with the improve-
ments necessary to handle present and future demands of
the area the District was then serving:  the two central
cities and 24 contracting areas.  In 1962, a $22.8 million
expansion was begun at the Pig's Eye plant.  Operational in
1966, it provides secondary treatment (biological treatment
of sewage after primary sedimentation treatment) with high-
rate activated sludge process.  This treatment Increases
the removal of the "pollutlonal load" from 35 percent to
75 percent.  Destruction of coliform bacteria (counts of
which are used as a standard Indication of pollution) has
increased from 50 to 99 percent.

The Comprehensive Sewage Worths Plan

            In the 1963 Legislature a bill creating a
metropolitan sanitary district was introduced again, this
time with the backing of a governor's advisory committee
on metropolitan problems.  The Legislature, however, in-
stead passed the 1963 Ashbach Act, sponsored by Representa-
tive Robert Ashbach of Arden Hills.  The Act required the

-------
                                                        576
                    Mrs. Wm. Whiting


central cities to submit, through the Minneapolis-St. Paul


Sanitary District, a Comprehensive Sewage Works Plan for



the Metropolitan Area with a construction schedule, cost


estimates and possible financing methods.  The plan must



be published by October 1964, and be reviewed and amended



as necessary by the Minnesota Water Pollution Control Com-


mission before presentation to the '65 Legislature.



            The 1964 MSPSD plan, approved by the City



Councils of Minneapolis and St. Paul, included the following


provisions:  (based on a design year of 2000)



            1.  A collection area of 900 square miles


                would be served by expanded Pig's Eye


                treatment facilities.  The completed



                plant could handle 400 million gallons of


                sewage a day, with full secondary


                treatment.


            2.  The present contract system and govern-


                mental structure of MSPSD would continue.


                Suggestion was made, however, that



                contracting communities Join to form


                regional districts for contracting



                purposes.


            3.  Construction costs would amount to


                some $145 million.  Pig's Eye requiring

-------
577

-------

-------
                                                       579
                    Mrs. Win. Whiting

                $18.2 million beyond the $22.8

                million spent on the 1962-65 pro-

                vision for secondary treatment and

                expansion.

            4.  For construction within a community,

                the community itself would determine

                the financial arrangements.  Construc-

                tion costs of common, or interceptor,

                sewers should be proportioned to each

                community based on use (flow), community

                property value, and on total developable

                acreage in the community.  Costs and

                maintenance of Pig's Eye plant would be

                based on annual sewage flow.

            It is important to note the domination of this

plan by the single-plant concept.  Two of the original six

regions considered in the Five-Year Study were at this point

eliminated from consideration because they didn't fit into

the Pig's Eye network:  the Southeast region including

South St. Paul, with its own treatment plant, and the Lake

Minnetonka region.  One major reason for scrapping the

regional plant alternatives suggested in *6l by the Five-

Year Study lay in the publication in 1963 of stream stand-

ards for the Mississippi River from Anoka to Hastings by

-------
                                                       580
                    Mrs. Wm. Whiting

the Minnesota Water Pollution Control Commission.  The

first in a system of standards published by the Commission

to conform with Federal interstate streaw regulations,

these standards state olearly that no major amounts of

treated sewage effluent oan be discharged into the river

from Anoka to the St. Anthony Palls in Minneapolis — which

would presumably eliminate the possibility of constructing

a regional plant for the north suburban area.  Minnesota

River standards published during the last year state that

no major quantities of treated sewage effluent oan be dis-

charged into the Minnesota from Shakopee to the mouth of

the river, which precludes the use of regional plants in

most of the southwest suburban region.  Suburban arguments

and court oases taking issue with these standards are dis-

cussed on pages 17 and 18.

            Early in the 1965 session of the State Legisla-

ture, a bill proposing a metropolitan sanitary district,

called the '65 Ashbach Bill, was introduced in the House of

Representatives.  At the same time, the Water Pollution

Control Commission made known its recommendations on the

MSPSD plan to the legislature, in accord with the provisions

of the '63 Ashbach Act,  The Commission declared its

agreement with the engineering plans of the District, but

returned the finance and cost apportionment plan to the

-------
                                                     58l
                    Mrs. Win. Whiting
oities with the recommend at ion that a single, area-wide
metropolitan sanitary district be proposed to the Legis-
lature.  The Commission further recommended that all
capital costs of this district be financed by bonds to
be repaid by an ac[ valorem tax on all real property within
the enlarged district and that all operation and maintenance
costs be met by a service charge to users of the system.
            The core cities declined to change their
position after hearing the WPCC recommendations, reiterat-
ing the original finance and apportionment proposals of
the MSPSD plan as written into the House Ashbach Bill.
Undoubtedly lack: of time for further comprehensive study
before the end of the session contributed heavily to the
cities' "stand-pat" position.
            In the closing days of the session, the Ashbach
Bill was passed in the House.  The bill was then sent to
the Senate where it was radically amended by the Senate
Civil Administration Committee.  As proposed by Senator
Wayne Popham of Minneapolis, and inspired by the results
of a Citizens League "Report on Metropolitan Sewerage
Needs" published in April, the amendments simplified the
bill's financing and cost apportionment procedures.  The
final bill, however, did not pass the Senate.  Since the
specific provisions of that '65 amended Ashbach Bill will

-------
                                                   582
                    Mrs. Wm. Whiting
be considered among the major alternatives for sanitary
district legislation in the '67 Legislature, they will
be discussed in the following sections which contrast
present district proposals on the basis of financing,
administration, etc.

               FINANCING A SANITARY DISTRICT

            The financial framework of the proposed
Metropolitan Sanitary District (MSD) has become a major
stumbling block: to the establishment of such a district.
            When a MSD is created, money must be collected
for:
            1.  Capital Costs - that is, the expense
                (principal and Interest) of new inter-
                ceptor sewers or the expense of disposal
                plant expansion.
                     Also included here might be the
                expense necessary to purchase existing
                sewage facilities for use under the new
                MSD.  For the most part, this would amount
                to "buying out" the present Mlnneapolis-
                St. Paul Sanitary District.
            2.  Year to Year Operational and Maintenance

-------
                                                       583
                    Mrs. Wm. Whiting

                Costs - e.g., maintenance of the lines,

                plant treatment oosts, staff salaries.



General Methods of Financing



            There are two basic methods of collection in

use today, either of which, or a combination thereof,

might serve as the financial backbone of a MSD.

     ,A.  Funds may be collected according to "use," I.e.,

         the dry weather volume of sewage flow from any

         area as compared with the total volume of flow

         for the entire district.  Other factors, such as

         strength of the sewage and flow characteristics,

         may be considered along with the volume when

         payment rates are determined.  This rate amounts

         to a service charge.

              This method of payment is equitable in that

         those who make the most use of the facilities also

         pay the greatest share.  It may be considered un-

         fair in that owners of vacant property may not

         share in payment for lines that enhance the value

         of their land.  (This would depend on the local

         method of collection employed by a municipality

         to meet its use-charge obligation.  If a property

-------
                                                584
               Mrs. Wm. Whiting
    tax is used locally, vacant property owners would
    share in payment.)  It is regressive in that
    families of low income pay a proportionately
    larger share of their income for service.
         Public officials may prefer such a charge
    as it adds nothing to taxes, requires no popular
    vote, is free of debt limitations in bonding and
    brings revenue from tax-exempt property.  A pay-
    ment system based on sewage flow could call for
    close monitoring of Industrial use.  An appropriate
    charge could then be made to each Industrial plant,
    based on the volume and strength of its effluent.
B.  Funds may be provided by a general tax - specifi-
    cally, an ad valorem property tax throughout the
    whole district.
         Proponents of area-wide taxation say that
    community-wide benefits should be supported by
    general taxation.  Since a property tax may be
    listed as an exemption on individual tax returns,
    state and Federal, there could be a considerable
    total savings In income tax to district homeowners.
    Critics of area-wide taxation point out that
    there Is no distinction between user and non-user,
    public and Individual benefits, and that there is

-------
                                                      585
                    Mrs. Wm. Whiting

         no revenue from tax-exempt property.

              Taxes are most frequently used throughout

         the country to meet oosts of Interceptor sewers

         and treatment plant construction.



Present Collection System of MSPSD (Minneapolis-St.  Paul

Sanitary District).



            Yearly operational expenses are divided  between

the core cities (Minneapolis and St. Paul) on the basis  of

the percent of the total flow each has contributed to the

Pig's Eye plant.  Each core city, then, determines the

percent of flow contributed to it by each of its contract-

ing areas.  Each contract area pays a service charge to  the

core olty based on this usage.  In addition, the contract

charge rate reflects the cost of lines necessary to  connect

the outside area with the core city system.  Costs to the

core cities for expansion of Pig's Eye facilities are also

reflected in the rates quoted contract areas.



Proposals for payment under a new MSP (Metropolitan  Sani-

tary District).



      A.  Operation and Maintenance Costs.  In all

-------
                                                 586
              Mrs. Wm. Whiting

    proposals studied, It Is recommended that

    year-to-year operation costs be paid on the

    basis of current use.  The Popham amended

    1965 Ashbach Bill provides that "strength" as

    well as flow of sewage be considered In deter-

    mination of any rate.

B.  Capital Costs.  This section deals with specific

    proposals and arguments for each of the two

    methods of collection as they pertain to

    Minneapolis, St. Paul and their suburbs.

    Following this, the question of the necessity

    of purchase by a new MSD of the existing sewer

    network is considered.

        Since some proposals deal differently  with

    the cost of Interceptors as opposed to the cost

    of disposal plants, these differences are  out-

    lined in Table I.

-------
H >
2 O

is
pa H
O CO
W H



§1
                                            O
                                            O
                                            03
                                            ct


                                            O
                                            *•*>
                                                    587
    O
   3
   cf-
   03
   ft
 a
 co
 ft

 H-
 3

 a
 ft
               oq
                3
                (D
                            O
                            c
                3
                ct-
             CO
             a»
                         0)
                         w
                         M-
                         CN
                         3
                                      (D
                                      s
                                                        a
   o
   c
   3
   ct

   c
   CO
   (D
c
w
(t
a
(t
03
H-
cn
3
                O
             3
             ct
                w
                (D
a
(D
CO
h*
oq
3
                                           O
                                           H-
                                           cf
                                           H"

                                       MD ft
                                        ON D
                                       Ui 01
                                                                 O
 ft
 3
 ct

 "-0
 4
 O
*a
 o
 TO
CO
H*
a.
I
          09
          H-
          Q,

          (0
          H
                         O

                         ft

                         et


                         ct

                         6
                                                        co
                                                     to cr
                                                     cf •
                                     OM/J
                                     Ox ft


                                        *
                                                  ca
   B
                t-g
                      ft

                      4
                      ct
                                       V£>  tx)
                                       a\ o
                                       ui  o

-------
                                               588
             Mrs. Wm. Whiting

"USE" BASIS.  Both the Popham amended Ashbaoh Bill

and the 1965 Citizens League "Report and Recommenda-

tions on Twin Cities Metropolitan Area Sewage Needs"

propose collection on the basis of use either current

or in the design year 2,000.

     The distinction between "use in the design year"

and "current use" is Important.  In the design of an

interceptor, allowance in size must be made so that

the interceptor will be adequate as suburban popula-

tion and usage increase.  To proportion the cost of

these oversize Interceptors by current use would be

to charge the Initial users unduly; an area not

presently "hooked-up" would not pay its share for the

oversize Interceptor designed for its use at a

later date.

     Proponents of the use basis of collection con-

tend that:  a charge for new interceptors based on

ultimate usage insures that each area will be paying

its fair share on a common basis; the factor of

distance from the treatment plant will not be con-

sidered so that outlying areas will not be unfairly

penalized with the cost of the longer interceptors;

the method of apportioning costs is direct and

simple; since treatment plants are constructed in

-------
                                                    589
                 Mrs. Wm. Whiting

    stages as use demands, a current use formula is

    reasonable, simple and advantageous from the stand-

    point of equity.

2.  TAX BASIS.  The St. Paul Sewer Study Committee has

    issued "Recommendations on Financing a Metropolitan

    Sewer District" (July  1966) in which they favor

    the issue of Type II bonds with annual principal and

    Interest payments supplied by an ad valorem tax on

    all real property throughout the district, whether

    presently sewered or not.  In a memorandum of

    March 15, 1965, the Water Pollution Control Commission

    had recommended that such a tax be levied to pay the

    capital costs of a MSD.  Property will benefit from

    the construction of the facilities, hence the proper-

    ty tax.  Type II bonds are repaid in increasing

    annual payments.  The millage rate could remain fair-

    ly uniform (3.77 mills in 1970; 5.44 mills In

    2,000) because property values are expected to in-

    crease to help meet the annually increasing cost of

    repayment.

         Arguments for this method state that:  since

    the impact of decisions by the district board will

    affect the entire area in a uniform manner (e.g.,

    determination of the millage rate), the board will

-------
                                                      590
                    Mrs.  Wm.  Whiting

       more likely act for the welfare  of the  "whole"

       at the least cost  to the whole;  no area will be

       charged more than  another for service on the basis

       of distance from a treatment plantj the collection

       method Is simple to calculate and required no

       additional collection agency; assuming  that presently

       sewered areas will receive compensation from the

       purchase of their  facilities by  a MSD,  no one area

       will feel the financial Impact in excess (e.g.,

       Minneapolis has a  high realty value, but also stands

       to receive the lion's share of the credit which

       would result from  the acquisition by a MSD of the

       existing facilities).

            The lack of uniform property valuation pro-

       cedures throughout the area may  be a flaw in the

       tax basis approach.  While it may be felt that this

       is a flaw in an assessment system that  requires

       correction, it does detract from a payment plan

       based on a property tax.

          Under either plan, the capital costs of a MSD

would be "lumped" and the total cost would be divided among

the participating areas on a common basis.  If, on the other

hand, each area paid back exactly the cost of service to It,

some areas distant from a treatment plant would be heavily

-------
                                                        591
                    Mrs. Wm. Whiting

charged.  (The cost of the longer and larger interceptors

required would be a key factor.)  If distance from a treat-

ment plant is eliminated as a factor in fee determination

by lumping capital costs and dividing them on an overall

basis, then some areas (close to treatment plants) might

object that they are paying more than necessary for their

service alone.  Proponents of the tax basis contend that a

property tax would eliminate controversy that might arise

along this line when use rates are established.  In either

case, is it unreasonable to expect that an area might pay

for more than its service alone when it will benefit from

the proper sewage disposal of an entire district in many

ways (e.g. safety in water intake, scenic beauty)?



Acquisition of Existing Facilities.



          The plans studied thus far assume the necessity of

the purchase of existing facilities by the new MSD.

      The cost or present value of the existing network

      would be figured as follows:

          Present worth = Replacement cost - Depreciation .

          Depreciation is based on a 40 year life for

          treatment plants and an 80 year life for

          interceptors.

-------
                                                     592
                   Mrs. Wm. Whiting
          The question arose as to whether or not the cost
of acquisition should include that part of the network
which was originally paid for with Federal grants.  WPCC
felt that no Federal grant deduction on present value should
be made; the Popham amended Ashbach Bill is written in
agreement with this.  The Citizens League felt that some
portion, not to exceed half, of the Federal grants might be
deducted.  The St. Paul Sewer Study Committee would deduct
all Federal grants from the original costs.
          Not only the core cities, but their contracting
areas would receive recompense for their part in ownership
of existing facilities.  The amount of money due any city
or area might be used as a credit against its part of the
costs of a new MSD and may be an important consideration.
          There are some suburbanites who question the neces-
sity of this "buying out" obligation.  An urgent need for an
areawide solution might be met in another manner.  The new
MSD might "purchase" existing facilities for, say, one dollar,
Outstanding revenue bonds for plant improvements could be
paid by use charges or by property taxes.  Cost for inter-
ceptors would continue to be paid by assessment against the
area benefited.  Future developers would be required to put
in necessary sewers and include the cost of this in the
price of the buildings.  User charges would be uniform.
Industrial charges would be figured individually.  Aside

-------
                                                        593
                    Mrs. Wm. Whiting

from saving many thousands of dollars for the total district,

this plan would eliminate disputes over reimbursement

formulas.

          As a reference for this argument that existing

facilities should be turned over without charge to a new

sanitary district, Bloomington officials have mentioned

that when school districts are formed, no payment Is made

by them for existing school buildings, etc., of their mem-

ber communities.  Another argument is that those persons who

paid for the existing facilities are not the same people who

would be reimbursed for their cost.  Convincing the core

cities that no reimbursement should be forthcoming could be

difficult.

          Some other mention might be made of specific area

Interests.  St. Paul, with heavy industry and a large volume

of sewage flow, might be expected to favor a property tax

basis.  Minneapolis, with high realty value and an advanced

program of storm-sanitary sewer separation that decreases

sewage volume, might well reject the tax basis.  The

following is taken from material from the St. Paul Sewer

Study Committee Report as an illustration of the specific

Interests of various parties to the current controversy.

-------
s
3
CD
           w
           ct
           P
H-
CO
o
!•*
ct
CD
a
P
S

ct
EJ*
o
CO
CD
ct
3"
P
ct

£
O
£
I-J
a
cr
CD
a
c
CD

p
l-t)
ct
CD
13

ct
sr
CD

O
HJ
CD
a
H»
ct
ca

§
<
CD

cr
CD
CD
3

3
P
a,
CD
•



CD
X
H-
CO
ct
H-
3
ro
>-!>
P
0
H-
M
H*
ct
H*
CD
CO

cr
«:

P

3
t)
I^L
r*
CO

CO
ct
p
ct
CD
0.

P
3
a,

ct
^
CD

»-*>
C
ct
C
^
CD
O
P
•0
H-
ct
P
M

•o
p
«J
3
CD
3
ct
co
2
0
ct
CD
••
•€#•
ct U) H
y M a\
CD • •
4=- Cn
O
2 33
CD H« H-
a, i_i ,_j
H« I-" H>
Ct H. H-
O O
»-*) O
cJS
3 a
H-
= ct
cr
C O
^ e
1 CD
O
C
ct
—
a, 33
p
CD

CD
p
o
2*
o
•t)
ct
3*
CD
•€«-
O
O -3 --J
HJ
CD vo a\

o 33
p. p. H.
ct j-J >-«
H» MM
CD H- H«
CO O O
3 3
i-b
h«
*D
4
O
d
CD
*1
ct
^!

K9
B

0"
p
CO
H-
CO
O
3

ct
ir

p
o
&
C
H-
CO -&•
H-
Ct |-1
H« »-» O>
O « •
3 fO

o 33
t-b (-«• H-
c|
CO
CD

cr
P
co
H«
co
•D
^
CD
CO
CD
3
ct
s:
o
^
ct
£T

O
•-*)

^
C
ct
C
^
CD
O
P
*0
H«
ct
P
I-1

T3
P
«<
3
CD
3
et
*-> M












cr
«!
CD
h"
et
tr
CD
4

P
tr*t
T.3
t^
O
•rt
a
^
ct
«<

ct
s

O
^
P

£
CO
CD

M)
O
w
3
C
M
P
*


























3
H-
3
3
0)
P
€
O
M
H-
CO

g
CX
w
et
•

•T3
p
c
I-J

M>
O
h}

P

£g*
CO
0

>-»>
H-
3
§
o
CD
Cu

























*V
S
ca
CD
3
ct

<
O
4
ct
tvl
kJ
0
Mi
y
M)
C
ct
d
^
CD
O
P
•o
H-
ct
P
M

•o
P
*<
3
CD
3
ct
CO

»-*
4
Q
3











 o
 3
O
3

-------
                                                        595
                        Mrs. Wm. Whiting
     ADMINISTRATION OP A METROPOLITAN DISTRICT



          Wide division on financing has taken the spot-

light in the last three years, obscuring controversy on

the organization of a sanitary district administration.

Solutions to this problem will also have to be found before

passage of a bill can be assured.  Proposals In this area

are as diverse as financial plans and compromise will

probably be needed to provide the best form of expert yet

democratic control.

          The Water Pollution Control Commission proposed

In 1965 that representation on a district board be based

on population and be adjusted periodically to provide for

fluctuation of population.  WPCC calculates that the growth

In population from 1966 to 2000 will be such that the core

cities' share of total district population will shift from

the present 55 percent to 30 percent.

          The Citizens League supports basing the membership

of a district Board on population.  More specifically, it

has stated that it would be preferable if neither central

cities nor suburban municipalities has an absolute voting

majority on the governing board; that the size of the board

should not be unduly large, preferably not In excess of

-------
                                                       596
                    Mrs.  Wm. Whiting

eleven members; that voters should not elect members of

the Sanitary District Board; that the governing bodies of

the component municipalities should appoint the members of

the board; that the suburban area be divided into separate

appointing districts rather than appointing members at

large; and that members of the board should not be employees

of an elected governmental body.

          The '65 amended Ashbach Bill proposes that the

cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul each have three trustees

on an initial eleven man board.  Two members would be

appointed from the state at large by the Governor.  Each

suburban region (Northwest, North and Southwest) should

have one representative.   Representatives would serve four-

year terms.  The suburban representatives would be elected

at a convention of municipal representatives from the com-

ponent communities within each region.

          According to the Ashbach Bill, the governing board

may Increase over the years to a number not to exceed 15 in

the following manner:  whenever the population (based on


Federal census) of a suburban unit Increases by 135*000*

the unit may elect an additional trustee.  At the same

time, when the combined suburban population equals or exceeds

the combined core city population, the number of trustees

from the state at large shall drop from 2 to 1.  Thus the

-------
                                                   597
                   Mrs. Wm. Whiting

"final" board would consist of the following representa-

tives:  core cities, 6; at large, 1; suburbs, 8.  If we

expect, as the wPCC does, that the core cities' population

will be 30 percent of the district in 2000, it is apparent

that their representation (6/15 on the board will be dis-

proportlonately large.)

               The following questions should be considered:

      1.  Should the representatives be elected or appointed?

      2.  Should there be weighted voting by the repre-

          sentatives on the board according to either

          population of a region or according to sewage

          effluent volume of the region?

      3.  What Is the largest number of members for an

          effective but still representative board?

      4.  Is representation by one man of an enormous geo-

          graphical area made up of up to 15 communities

          feasible, especially if the representative is

          a layman?

      5.  Should there be a combination of professional

          and laymen on the board, or exclusively either?

      6.  Are the boundaries of the proposed suburban

          regions (shown on map, p.56?) consistent with

          watershed drainage areas?  If the Sanitary

          District were to expand later Into areas of water

-------
                   Mrs. Wm. Whiting



          conservation and zoning for beneficial water



          use, prior division according to natural drainage



          areas would make such activity more feasible



          and simple to administer.



      7.  How do recent court decisions indicating that a



          governmental unit with taxing power must be



          controlled by representatives closely reflecting



          the population of their constituencies affect



          plans for a Sanitary District board?



               Pressure on the Legislature to set up a



multi-purpose metropolitan district has been growing.



Sewerage is only one of several services that might be



handled on an area-wide basis.  Planning, transit, air



pollution control, and a zoo are among services most fre-



quently mentioned.



               Specific proposals for a Metropolitan Area



Services Council have been put forth by the Minneapolis



Chamber of Commerce.  That organization has suggested that



metropolitan representatives from seven counties (Anoka,



Carver, Dakota, Hennepin, Ramsey, Scott and Washington)



should be elected from recently reapportioned senatorial



districts.  The Council would elect Its own chairman and



executive committee and would be empowered to hire a



director and staff.  The Council would be created by the

-------
                                                       599
                   Mrs. Wm. Whiting

State Legislature, and its authority and responsibilities

determined by the state.

               Representative Ashbach has proposed for

the State Legislature an alternative to the senatorial dis-

trict method of representation.  He has suggested that a

twenty member board have responsibility for coordinating

and planning metropolitan affairs.  One official would be

elected from seven counties, two each from Minneapolis and

St. Paul and one from suburban Ramsey  County.  The remainder

of the board would consist of one municipal official from

each of the seven counties, and one School Board representa-

tive from the entire area.

               Proponents of multi-district legislation are

looking for & single solution to a number of metropolitan

problems.  Others feel it is more practical to deal with

each problem on an individual basis and let coordination

com*? later.  The special needs of a sewage program would

probably still require formation of a separate sanitary dis-

trict board under a multi-district administration.




    GEOGRAPHICAL AREA OP A METROPOLITAN SANITARY DISTRICT




               There are four large areas which geographi-

cally would seem to fall in a Metropolitan District plan,

-------
                                                     600
                   Mrs. Wm. Whiting

but whose Inclusion is, In fact, in doubt at present.

               Two of these areas, the North Suburban

Sanitary Sewer Distrlot and the Southwest communities of

Blooraington, Eagan Township and Burnsvllle, are included in

the limits of service as written in the amended 1965 Ashbach

Bill and are currently contracting areas of MSPSD.  Both

prefer to decline admission into a district that proposes

to transport and treat all sewage at one treatment plant

(Pigfs Eye).  The "Regional versus Single Plant" controversy

has been hotly debated and the Issues closely studied.  A

separate section of the paper deals with this controversy.

               Two other areas, the Lake Minnetonka region

(west of Deephaven) and the Southeast region including

South St. Paul have been eliminated from consideration

since 1964, although they were originally included in the

Five Year Study for a Metropolitan Sanitary District.  As

the single plant concept has dominated the engineering

plans for a district, only the areas feasibly served by

the Pig's Eye plant have been included in these plans.

               Both the Lake Minnetonka region and the

Southeast region present serious pollution problems.  There

are now six treatment plants sending effluent into Lake

Mlnnetonka, located in Excelsior, Wayzata, Orono, Mound,

Langdon, Maple Plain and Long Lake.  As these communities

-------
                                                        6oi
                   Mrs. Wm. Whiting

continue to grow, it is inconceivable that they can all

continue to discharge effluent into the lake without

harmful effect on its water quality.  Algae growth fed

by chemical nutrients remaining in sewage effluent is

already a local nuisance.  Unless some more economical

method for removal of objectionable chemicals in sewage

can be developed, the WPCC suggests that communities on

the south side of the lake may have to discharge their

effluent south to the Minnesota River near Chaska (above

Shakopee) and the communities on the west and north may

have to discharge effluent west to the Crow River.

               When the first sanitary district legisla-

tion was passed in 1933* South St. Paul was eliminated

from the plan presented to the Legislature because it

created too large a financing problem.  It then had a

population of only 10,000 but had sewage equivalent to a.

population of 250,000.  It still has slaughtering and meat

packing plants, and to them have been added oil refineries

and chemical plants.  It still has combined storm-sanitary

sewers which now bring into its treatment plant each day

raw sewage equivalent to that of a population of 818,000;

approximately 50 percent of the "pollutional load" of the

sewage is removed at the South St. Paul plant.

               Recent developments such as the permission

-------
                                                        602
                   Mrs. Wm. Whiting

given by the Water Pollution Control Commission to

Burnsvllle, within the metropolitan district planning

area, to expand its temporary plant discharging into the

Minnesota River seem to weaken the single plant concept

for presentation in the '67 Legislature.  It would seem

that if the district is to control any plants other than

Pig's Eye, then it should also control the plants of the

Southeast and Lake Minnetonka regions.  South St. Paul has

suggested its Interest in joining a metropolitan sanitary

district, with the proviso that It be given representation

on the basis of its volume of sewage effluent rather than

on population, or at least be given one representative on

the district board.

               This year 37 communities in Minnesota re-

quested  7 million dollars in Federal aid for municipal

treatment plant construction.  The Water Pollution Control

Commission states that a maximum of $1.9 million will be

granted to the state, and, since It assigns priority

ratings to the requests, states that the funds will be

divided among a probable 10 municipalities.  South St. Paul

has applied for funds but has never received priority status.

The advantage of accumulating as many municipalities as

possible in one request is obvious? not only does the

Federal Government grant a 10 percent bonus for

-------
                                                      603
                   Mrs. Wm. Whiting
construction that It part of a comprehensive metropolitan
plan, but It has recently passed legislation eliminating
percentage ceilings on grants for large cities under such
a plan.
               South St. Paul with its large number of
Industries and Lake Mlnnetonka with its great recreational
value for metropolitan dwellers seem particularly valuable
to the state as a whole.  Many supporters of a metropolitan
district say the advantage of this approach is that it can
average out the problems of the communities within it,
whether they be Lake Mlnnetonka's great distance from a
reasonable sewage outfall or South St. Paul's high volume
of Industrial effluent.  There seems to be no reason why a
metropolitan district could not oversee a network of regional
plants as well as a single one.
               No sanitary district proposal has included
the entire 7 county metropolitan area described by the
proponents of a multi-purpose metropolitan district (see
P.567 ).  Perhaps consideration should be given to equating
the boundaries of a sanitary district with those of the
area represented on a metropolitan services council.

-------
                                                     604
                   Mrs. Wm. Whiting
 REGIONAL VS. SINGLE SANITARY DISTRICT TREATMENT PLANTS



               One of the most controversial questions

involved in a study of the sanitary sewer district prob-

lem is the single plant concept versus that cf regional

treatment plants.  The two factors most discussed in a

single versus a regional plan are cost of construction and

maintenance and quality of effluent.  There is a dispute of

facts on these two points by the parties involved.

               The WPCC and the Citizens League both favor

the single plant plan and conclude it would be cheaper in

the long run.  The North Suburban Sanitary Sewer District

favors the regional plan and estimates it would cost less.

The Bloomlngton group (which Is made up of the city of

Bloomington, the village of Burnsvllle and Eagan Township)

also favors the regional approach and feels It would be

cheaper.

               According to the Citizens League report, "in

order to provide for projected year 2000 sewerage needs for

the northwestern and southwestern regions, construction

costs totalling $100.3 million will be required under a

system of four upstream treatment plants.  The total

construction costs of providing the necessary sewerage

-------
                                                       605
                   Mrs. Wm. Whiting

works for these two regions under the single downstream

plant system would be $116.9 million.  Thus the excess

construction costs under a single downstream plant system

would total $16.6 million."  (Citizens League Report, p.  6,

Item A)

               All of the parties concerned seem to agree

that Initial construction costs under the regional plan

would be cheaper.  Where the cost of operation and

maintenance is considered a conflict appears between the

NSSSD, the Bloomington group and the figures given in the

Citizens League report.

               The Citizens League Indicates that "cumula-

tive operation and maintenance costs to the year 2000 under

the upstream plant system will total $49.3 million.  Com-

parable operation and maintenance costs to the year 2000  und-

er the single downstream plant would total $31.6 million.

The net saving under the single downstream plant system

would amount to $17.7 million.  Therefore the excess

construction costs of $16.6 million under the single

downstream plant system are more than fully offset by the

$17.7 million savings in operation and maintenance costs

to the year 2000.  After the year 2000, these savings in

costs of operation and maintenance under the single

downstream plant system would widen the cost differential

-------
                                                       606
                   Mrs. Wra. Whiting


In favor of the single downstream plant system."  (Citizens


League Report, pp. 6 and 7, Items B and D)


               The NSSSD agreed "there is a difference


in cost of operation and maintenance, but it is nowhere


near the magnitude claimed. . ."  (NSSSD Brief, p. 49)


The NSSSD contends that "the primary difference in the


oost of operation and maintenance is the result of


providing only 75$ treatment by means of a high rate


activated sludge plant, (Pig's Eye), as opposed to the


90-95$ treatment in the conventional activated sludge


plant proposed by the NSSSD." (NSSSD Brief, p. 46)  In


direct opposition to this statement, the Citizens League


states that "we have revised upward the costs of a down-


stream plant system to reflect 90$ treatment at the Pig's


Eye plant to be attained by 1980" and have therefore based


cost comparisons on equal quality factors. (Citizens


League Report, p. 7)


               The Bloomington group also states that they


plan "a much higher degree of treatment (95$) than that


proposed by the Mlnneapolis-St. Paul Sanitary District


Plant at Pig's Eye (75$)." (Comments by Bloomington Director


of Public Works, Lower Minnesota River Sewerage Plan


Summary, Nov. 22, 1965, P. 2)  The Bloomington group con-


tends that the time schedule does not correspond with

-------
                                                       607
                   Mrs. Wm. Whiting
the sewerage needs of the region involved and that the
southwestern regions share of cost based on capacity
would be more, under the single plan, than if they had
their own plant.
               Concerning water pollution control, both
the proposed NSSSD plant and the plans for a plant from
the Bloomington group have given evidence that their
effluent will be "as clean and pure" (NSSSD Brief, p. 53)
as the standards adopted by the WPCC require. Both groups
also pointed out that with the high degree of treatment
given at their proposed plants, the effluent put into the
river would be of better quality than the river water as
It now exists.
               The only WPCC standard that these two groups
could not meet is the prohibition of any discharge of
effluent (treated or untreated) into the Mississippi or
the Minnesota Rivers In regions where they proposed plants.
The Citizens League report indicated that they felt the
quality standards could be maintained most of the time by
regional plants.  They were concerned, however, over
meeting the standards during periods of low flow.  They also
expressed concern over the risk to Minneapolis drinking
water if the NSSSD plant were built one mile above the
Minneapolis water Intake plant as proposed.

-------
                                                    608
                   Mrs. Wm. Whiting

               The NSSSD Is presently waiting for a

decision from the Anoka County Court of Appeals on the

validity of the WPCC prohibition standard.  The NSSSD

has not been oonsldering membership in a metropolitan

system and probably will not, until a decision is made

by the court.  It is likely that if the Court of Appeals

rules against it, the NSSSD will take its case to the

Minnesota Supreme Court.

               The Bloomington group has Included in its

study the possibility of membership in a metropolitan

system.  The League of Women Voters of Bloomington has

posed an interesting question on this points  "Does a

metropolitan solution have to include a monolithic single

plant concept?  Does construction of a regional treatment

plant destroy the concept of a metropolitan district?"


                   ADDENDUM ON STATE AIDS



               Although not directly relevant to the

subject of a metropolitan sanitary district, the possibility

that state loans or grants may aid the financing of new

plants, interceptors, etc. in a metropolitan district

should be considered.

               The U. S. Advisory Commission on

-------
                                                      609
                   Mrs. Wm. Whiting

Intergovernmental Relations recommends that states enact

legislation to provide grants for capital development

to supplement Federal aid and to provide incentives in

the form of low cost loans, bonuses or matching grants

for regional treatment plant construction.  Direct state

grants are given for planning in four states, for construc-

tion in eleven states and for construction loan funds in

nine states.

               In Its proposals for the 1967 Legislature,

the Water Pollution Control Commission has advised that

the state consider a program of matching construction

grants to supplement or extend Federal grants.  It has also

suggested that the state consider establishing a revolving

loan fund to be used for financing at a low interest rate

engineering reports, construction plan and specifications.
                     BIBLIOGRAPHY



Advisory Commission on Intergovernmental Relations

     "Alternative Approaches to Governmental Reorganization

in Metropolitan Areas," Commission Report, A-ll (June  1962)

-------
                                                     610
                   Mrs. Win. Whiting


     "Intergovernmental Responsibilities for Water Supply


     and Sewage Disposal in Metropolitan Areas," (1962)


Bloomlngton Council Meeting, Unapproved Minutes of


     adjourned meeting Council Chambers, (Nov.,22, 1965)


Chamber of Commerce of Minneapolis


     "Recommendations for the Formation of a Multi-Purpose


     Metropolitan District," (Sept.  1966)


Citizens League


     "Twin Cities Metropolitan Area Sewerage Needs," Report


     and Recommendations (April 29, 1965)


Kirk, J. Thomas, Practical Plan for Pollution Prevention,


     Henepin County Water Forum on "Pollution Solution,"


     sponsored by CLIC and the Minneapolis Chamber of


     Commerce, (June  1966)


League of Women Voters of Minneapolis, "On the Minneapolis


     Waterfront," Section Three (Got. 1965)


Minneapolls-St. Paul Sanitary District,  "Comprehensive


     Sewage Works Plan," Summary Report  (1964)


Minnesota Water Pollution Control Commission,


     "Classification and Standards,"


        Chapters One through Three, For  the Mississippi


        River and Tributaries from the Rum River to Look


        and Dam #2 near lias tings (March  28, 1963)

-------
                   Mrs. Wm. Whiting                    611



        Chapters Five and Six, For the Minnesota River



        and Tributary Waters from Carver Rapids to the



        Junction with the Mississippi, (Nov..2, 1965)



     Statement on Legal and Administrative Problems in Water



     Pollution Control Which May be the Subject of State



     Legislation.  Prepared for Joint Meeting of Sub-Comm.



     on State Depts., Senate Civil Administration Comm., and



     the Sub-Comm. on Water Resources, Senate Public Domain



     Committee (June 17, 1966)



     "Comprehensive Sewage Works Plan for the Minneapolls-



     St. Paul Metropolitan Area," Report, (December  1964)



     Memorandum to Committee on Metropolitan and Urban



     Affairs, State House of Representatives.  Comparison



     of provisions of Ashbach Bill with Recommendations of



     WPCC on Metropolitan Sewage Disposal, (March 15, 1965)



     Quarterly Report, (April 1 - June 30, 1966)



National Association of Counties Research Foundation,



     "Water Pollution Control," Community Action Guide for



     Public Officials, Reports #1 - 1CT, (1965)



North Suburban Sanitary Sewer District vs. the Water



     Pollution Control Commission of Minnesota, Trial



     Memorandum and Reply Memorandum, (1965)

-------
                                                    612
                  Mrs. Wm. Whiting
Public Health Service, Division of Water Supply and
     Pollution Control, Region V, U. S. Department of
     Health, Education and Welfare, "Report on Pollution
     of the Waters of the Upper Mississippi River and
     its Significant Tributaries, Mlnneapolis-St. Paul
     Metropolitan Area," by J. M. Rademacher, Senior
     Sanitary Engineer, (February  1964)
Rlgert, Joe, "St. Paul Proposes Sewer System Plan for
     Six-County District," Minneapolis Tribune, (July 31*
     1966)
St. Paul Sewer Study Committee, "Recommendations on Financing
     a Metropolitan Sewer District," (July  1966)
Thimsen, Donald J., Enhancement of Water Quality Through
     Sewage Treatment, Hennepln County Water Forum on
     "Pollution Solution," sponsored by CLIC and the
     Minneapolis Chamber of Commerce (June  1966)
Tolz, King, Duvall, Anderson and Associates, Inc., "Expan-
     sion of Sewage Works In the Minneapolis-St. Paul
     .Metropolitan Area," Report sponsored by MSPSD,
     (Sept.  I960)
Twin Cities Metropolitan Planning Commission, 1966 Population
     Estimates, Information Bulletin #3, (July 19, 1966)

-------
63                                   Mrs.  Wm.  Whiting                   6l3



                 Wolfe, Kenneth, The Community Decision,  Hennepin County



                      Water Forum on "Pollution Solution," sponsored



                      by CLIC and the Minneapolis Chamber of Commerce,



                      (June  1966)



                 Minnesota House of Representatives Pile  #59^, 1965, as



                      amended, A Bill for  an Act Relating to Water Pollu-



                      tion and to the Prevention, Control, and Abatement



                      thereof by Treatment and Disposal of Sewage and



                      Wastes in the Metropolitan Area, (1965 Ashbach Bill)



                 U. S. Department of Health, Education and Welfare, The



                      Water Quality Act of 1965, PL 89-234.
                                The bibliography for the 1965 publication



                 of the Minneapolis League of Women Voters, "On the



                 Minneapolis Waterfront," is a general listing of



                 publications concerning Twin Cities water resources prob-



                 lems.  This bibliography lists only those publications



                 specific to recent MSD proposals.

-------
                                                        614
                  Mrs. Wm.  Whiting

            MR. STEIN:  Are there any questions or comments?

            MR. POSTON:  I  would like to say that at every

one of these conferences that I have attended or participated

in, the League of Women Voters has come through with a pro-

found statement, and has shown by the statement the extent

to which they have studied  the problem.

            Recently the League of Women Voters came out with

a new book.

            MRS. WHITING:  That's right.

            MR. POSTON:  And they are to be commended for

the influence that they are exerting on this overall program.

            MRS. WHITING:  Thank you.  We appreciate the

opportunity for citizens to be heard like this.

            MR. STEIN:  I know this may be some shock to the

engineers, but I don't think we can say, as you do indicate,

they are all to blame for this.

            You know, if you look at the nine people up here,

only four of the nine, I think, are engineers, and the rest of

us have to bear the blame for any inaction.  This is not one

professional group.

            MRS. WHITING:  Thank you.

            MR. STEIN:  Thank you.

            Mr. Smith?

            MR. SMITH:  The next statement will be by Clear

-------
                       J. Pegors                       615
Air, Clear Water - Unlimited.

            STATEMENT OF JOHN PEGORS, VICE PRESIDENT,
               CLEAR AIR, CLEAR WATER - UNLIMITED
            MR. PEGORS:  Chairman Stein and Conferees:
            Clear Air, Clear Water - Unlimited is a group of
citizens living on the rivers under study at this time.
            My name is John Pegors.  I am Vice President of
the organization.  Our statement is as follows:
            Clear Air, Clear Water - Unlimited appreciates
the opportunity to submit a statement of praise for the
Upper Mississippi River Project Study and to make further
recommendations for limiting pollution on the upper Mississippi
and major tributaries.  It is the feeling of our organization
that the remedial recommendations are not as severe as
idealists might suggest.  But we accept the general spirit
of the recommendations in the Interest of need for immediate
progress.
            Clear Air, Clear Water - Unlimited has a member-
ship of more than 500 citizens living along or near the upper
Mississippi and the Minneapolis and St. Crolx Rivers.  The
organization has been concerned since its formation eleven
years ago that the pollution problems prevailing in the
Minnesota and Mississippi Rivers were being compounded wit

-------
                                                    616
                       J. Pegors
proper checks to safeguard the health and rights of the
public.  We also have been and continue to be concerned about
the potential for pollution posed by construction of major
electric generating plants, both planned and in progress,
along the three rivers.  Therefore, we believe the effective-
ness of the Upper Mississippi River Project could be enhanced
with the addition of the following recommendations:
            1.  Temperatures of effluents discharged into
streams be kept at 83 degrees Fahrenheit or lower.  The pur-
pose of this recommendation is to avoid the potential for
disruption of aquatic life.
            2.  All waters be monitored for the effects of
pesticides as a protection against improper use and potential
harm to human health.
            3.  Both atmosphere and waters be monitored for
radiation levels, along with a total prohibition on the dis-
posal of radioactive wastes in the upper Mississippi and its
tributaries.  This recommendation is directed at all users
of radioactive material since there are no known safe levels
of radioactive pollution, and since such pollution Is known
to have carcinogenic and genetic effects.
            4.  The two following sections of rivers be up-
graded to the extent that they are suitable habitat for
Group I flan:

-------
                                                      617
                       J. Pegors



                 A.  Mississippi River from the Mlnneapolis-


        St. Paul Sanitary District main treatment plant to


        Lock and Bam No. 2.


                 B.  Minnesota River from Chaska to the


        confluence of the Mississippi River.


            These recommendations are made in view of the


great recreational potential and important health considera-


tions involving these rivers which flow at the very doorstep


of a metropolitan population center.


            Clear Air, Clear Water - Unlimited is a great


deal less than satisfied with the prospect that the remedial


program timetable stretches over three years.  Our organiza-


tion believes that the public interest has already been set


aside too long.  But in the interest of immediate progress,


we will accept the recommended timetable, which we feel to be


more than ample for the necessary construction.


            In their deliberations following the conference,


the conferees are requested to accept the recommendations of


the Upper Mississippi River Project with the modifications


and additions noted above.


                         Respectfully Submitted



                         Board of Directors


                         Clear Air, Clear Water - Unlimited


                         Rural Route 1


                         South St. Paul, Minnesota

-------
                                                       618
                       J. Pegors


            Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the opportunity.


            MR. STEIN:  Thank you.


            Are there any comments or questions?


            (No response.)


            MR. STEIN:  Mr. Smith?


            MR. SMITH:  The next statement is from the


Minnesota Conservation Federation.


            Is there someone here to read that?


            (No response.)


            MR. SMITH:  Mr. Thimsen?




            STATEMENT OP MINNESOTA CONSERVATION


            FEDERATION, AS READ BY DONALD J. THIMSEN,


                  MINNESOTA DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH


            MR. THIMSEN:  Statement by Minnesota Conservation


Federation Pollution Committee.


            For the Conference in the Matter of Pollution of


the Interstate and Intrastate Waters of the Upper Mississippi


River and its Tributaries  (Minnesota-Wisconsin), February 28,


1967 - 9:30 a.m., Leamington Hotel, Minneapolis.


            The Minnesota Conservation Federation appreciates


the opportunity to study  the summary of the Federal recom-


mendations for pollution  abatement for the upper Mississippi


River and its tributaries.  As our organization has been

-------
                                                    619
       Minn. Conservation Federation, D. J. Thlmsen

extremely Interested in pollution problems for many years,

at our annual Assembly in September  1966, the following

resolution was passed unanimously by delegates from each

of our affiliated organizations.

          WHEREAS, pure air and pure water are vital to

          health, recreation and survival of the American

          way of life and are currently of national concern

          and,

          WHEREAS, we are informed that the present laws

          are adequate if properly enforced to correct any

          pollution problems pertaining to water in our

          State and,

          WHEREAS, we have been informed that approximately

          400 communities have no disposal treatment plants

          and many other existing plants are not operating

          efficiently and that a number are operating only

          eight hours per day and,

          WHEREAS, we are informed that the Pollution Com-

          mission has not been granted a sufficient budget

          in order to engage the services of sufficient

          qualified personnel to properly supervise the

          installation of disposal plants and to properly

          check the operation of these plants periodically,

          WHEREAS, the Minnesota Conservation Federation has

-------
                                              620



Minn. Conservation Federation, D. J. Thlmsen





    for a number of years supported strong pollution



    laws and as a result of this support should assume



    the responsibility of bringing to the public at-



    tention pollution problems which exist throughout



    the State and should assist In any way possible



    by reporting these pollution problems,



    NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the Minnesota



    State Legislature be requested to appropriate



    sufficient funds for the use of the Pollution



    Commission in order that It can engage the services



    of the necessary qualified personnel to meet the



    requirements of the present Minnesota State laws



    and Federal laws.



    NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the Minnesota



    Conservation Federation establish a pollution



    committee within the Minnesota Conservation



    Federation membership, said committee to be ap-



    pointed by the president, and be It further re-



    solved that each member organization appoint a



    pollution committee to work in conjunction with



    the State committee by surveying their surrounding



    area to determine existing and potential pollution

-------
                                                       621



      Minn. Conservation Federation, D. J. Thimsen





          problems and to report their findings in detail



          to the State committee.  The State committee



          will review the facts and in turn, if they deem



          it advisable, will report the results to the



          Pollution Commission.








RESOLUTION FROM THE NATIONAL WILDLIFE FEDERATION



          Unanimously passed by delegates from 49 States



in annual meeting, March 1966.  The National Wildlife



Federation continues to emphasize its belief that contamina-



tion of the air, water, and land resources, both from unwise



disposal of wastes and from the deliberate application of



chemicals, is the most pressing problem of the time.  In



view of demands from the expanding human population, it



Is urgent that massive attacks must be launched by Federal,



State, and local governmental agencies to control water



and air pollution and set standards of quality which will



allow public waters to be used for all beneficial purposes,



including fish and wildlife and recreational pursuits



rather than reserving them for waste assimilation.  In-



dustries must be encouraged to regard pollution control as



a normal cost of production and pricing.  Accelerated and



expanded research must be pursued toward the goal of

-------
                                                     622



      Minn. Conservation Federation, D.  J.  Thimsen



developing methods of pest control less  harmful than the



persistent chemical poisons which present hazards to large



numbers of beneficial creatures.








          In our opinion, after studying this comprehensive



report, it makes one ask, "How could this pollution mon-



strosity occur, here in Minnesota in this day and age,  of



24-hour a day news coverage, besides all of the well-meaning



organizations so vitally interested in all types of pollu-



tion?"



          It sorely points up the following facts:



          1.   Lack of budget for the Pollution Commission.




          2.   Lack of press relations.



          3.   Failure of, responsibility of, on the part of



          our elected and appointed officials to get this



          Information to the public — as guaranteed by our



          Federal Constitution amendments — freedom of the



          press.



          4.   The glaring fact that the Minneapolls-St.



          Paul Sanitary District and South St. Paul are



          the prime culprits of pollution.  Approximately



          98 percent of the entire area.



          5.   Immediate steps could be  taken by the

-------
                                                  623



      Minn. Conservation Federation, D. J, Thimsen



          authorities to correct this problem by advancing



          the states of sewage treatment.



          We urge the conferees to give serious considera-



tion to the upgrading immediately of the entire Mississippi



River Basin from Federal recommendations Pages 26 through 28.



          Under Item B, Page 28, we recommend maintenance



of habitat for Group I fish for the entire Basin.



          Under Item C, we recommend whole body contact



for the entire Basin.



          Under Item 10, Page 30, we recommend storm and



sanitary sewers to be completed within 24 months.  Studies



to continue for means of continual upgrading of all



standards.



                     Prepared by the Pollution Committee



               (Signed) R. C. Johnson



                        H, C. Johnson, Chairman.

-------
                                                         624
            Minn. Conservation Federation,  D.  J.  Thimsen
            Mr. Chairman, I would like to make one comment
on one of the "whereases."
            "Whereas, we have been informed that  approxi-
       mately 400 communities have no disposal treatment
       plants and many other existing plants are  not
       operating efficiently, and that a number are operat-
       ing only eight hours per day,"
there is reference made here to 400 communities,  and I am
sure we do not have 400 communities without treatment.
            MR. STEIN:  They are not here to answer this, are
they?
            MR. THIMSENJ  I beg your pardon?
            MR. STEIN:  They are not here to answer this?
            MR. THIMSEN:  No.
            MR. STEIN:  Are there any further comments or
questions?
            MR. SMITH:  I have the same comment M£. Thimsen
had.  I am certain we don't have 400 communities  without
treatment.
            MR. STEIN:  I have a question as to the constitu-
tional interpretation, but I won't raise that here.
            MR. POSTON:  You are talking about freedom of
speech?
            MR. STEIN:  Speech shall be guaranteed, but that

-------
          Beaverbrook Sportsmen, Inc., by D. J. Thirasen    625






is of no point here,



            Mr. Smith?



            MR. SMITH: . The next group I have is the Izaak



Walton League.



            Is Mr. Sullivan here?




            (No response.)



            MR. SMITH:  The next statement is from the



Beaverbrook Sportsmen, Inc.








            STATEMENT OP BEAVERBROOK SPORTSMEN, INC.,



            AS READ BY DONALD J. THIMSEN, MINNESOTA



                    DEPARTMENT OP HEALTH




            MR. THIMSEN:  This statement is in the form of



a letter dated February 21, 1967, from James Pettman, Chair-



man of the Pollution Committee, Beaverbrook Sportsmen, Inc.



It is addressed to Mr. Lyle H. Smith.



Dear Sir:



            I received an invitation from Robert N. Barr,



M.D., to attend the Peb. 28th conference at the Leamington




Hotel.  I cannot attend and give a full report on our commit-



tee activities, as we are still in the process of self-



education and fact-finding in our area.  We do not have police



powers to enter and check hidden sources of pollution, but we



are endowed with our natural senses — sight-hearing-touch-

-------
                                                          626
       Beaverbrook Sportsmen, Inc., by D. J. Thimsen

smell-speech-plus self-preservation and curiosity.

            Under curiosity, we would like answers  to the

following questions:

            1.  When the Mississippi flooded the Pig's Eye

dump, how pure was the water that reentered the river?

            2.  The supply of snapping turtles in Shingle

Creek (here in Brooklyn Center & North Mpls.) is quite ade-

quate, but where are the minnows and crayfish going?

            3.  When creosote enters a water table, does it

stop at city or village limits?

            4.  When industrial solvents are dumped into the

earth, do they eventually enter the nearest river by way of

convenient storm sewers?

            5.  When coke and asphalt plants eject  their

goodies, is it possible that rain and fog will wash them into

the river (minus what we absorb)?

            6.  Hard detergents are wonderful for washing the

first time.  Does the next user appreciate having them come

through his water tap?

            7.  Why are potent poisons sold to be used by

amateur bug slayers?  A pound is good, so a ton must be

wonderful.

            8.  Do all doctors have the time, skill and

laboratory facilities to diagnose incipient poisoning from

-------
                                                         627
     Beaverbrook Sportsmen, Inc., by D. J. Thimsen

our wonderful pesticides, Insecticides, etc.?

            9.  Is it true that vegetarians have half as

much residual poisons in their systems?  Watch the carrots,

boys]  They are reputed to be the most efficient collector of

poisons among the vegetables.

            10.  Are we to establish a wonderful new world of

plenty and be only half alive to enjoy it?

            11.  Will a cure for cancer catch up with all the

carcinogens?

            12.  Does the fact that areas are competing for

industry affect the enforcement of restrictions on these same

industries?

            13.  When a fertilizer plant emits its wastes,

do the plants, shrubs and trees in the vicinity take a new

lease on life?

            14.  Our municipal and village laws on pollution

are quite imposing.  Do we need money and well equipped,

trained personnel to enforce them?

            15.  Is it possible that individuals and corpora-

tions could possibly stall with the threat of a $100 fine

over their heads?

            16.  Who will bell the cat?  The village, the

county, the State or the Federal Government?  Could they

possibly unite?

-------
                                                          628
       Beaverbrook Sportsmen, Inc., by D. J. Thimsen

            In closing, let us Join together and send our

best to friends and neighbors downstream.

                         Sincerely,

               /s/       James Pettman

                         Chairman Pollution Committee

                         Beaverbrook Sportsmen, Inc.

P. S.  An aroused public can best make its wishes shown at

       the polls.

            (Laughter and applause.)

            MR. STEIN:  Thank you for reading this.

            You know, I am going to take this home.   Where he

talks about our natural senses and listed them and listed the

sense of speech as one, I've got to show that to my wife

(Laughter).

            Thank you.

            Are there any comments or questions?

            DR. JELATIS:  Mr. Chairman, as one of the down-

stream recipients of the pests, I say I appreciate this, as

all of the concern of the Natural History Society and the

League of Women Voters, Clear Air, Clear Water, and the other

people who are concerned enough to speak here.

            I hope that they speak equally vocally before the

Legislature and support some activities, and support addi-

tional funds that the people would have to enforce the

-------
                                                        629
                       T. C. Savage
regulatione.



            MB. STEIN:  Thank you.



            Mr. Smith?



            MR. SMITH:  The next statement Is from the Port



Snelling State Park Association, Mr. Savage.







            STATEMENT OP THOMAS C. SAVAGE, VICE



            PRESIDENT, PORT SNELLING STATE PARK



                       ASSOCIATION



            MR. SAVAGE:  I am Thomas Savage, the Vice President



of the Port Snelling State Park Association, a citizens'



group.



            At the Federal Conference in the matter of the



Pollution of the Upper Mississippi River and Tributaries in



Minneapolis on February 28 and 29, 1967.



            Port Snelling State Park, as established by the



1961 session of the Minnesota Legislature, comprises 2,450



acres of land on both sides of the Minnesota River, extending



some four miles upriver from its mouth and including land on



the south side of the Mississippi River upriver from the



junction of the two watercourses.  The total amount of



frontage on the Minnesota River -- including both sides —



including Pike Island — and including both the present



channel and the new channel currently being established by

-------
                                                        630
                       T. C. Savage

the U. S. Corps of Engineers -- is 14-3/4 miles;  the frontage

on the Mississippi River is just over 2 miles.   When the land

acquisition and the development of this park is completed,  it

will be one of the major recreational areas of  the Twin

Cities.  Included among the recreational activities of the

park will be such sports as pleasure boating and  canoeing,

fishing, the observation of waterfowl and wildlife, and the

esthetic enjoyment of the rivers by hikers, picnickers and

others.

            Another much larger State park -- Carver State

Park — is being proposed at the current session  of the

Legislature — to consist of some 18,000 acres  located on

the Minnesota River both above and below the town of Jordan.

To enable Port Snelling State Park and Carver State Park, if

and when established, to offer the greatest number of water-

related activities to both our residents and to the many out-

of State tourists who are certain to use their  facilities,  it

is essential that the water quality of the lower stretch of

the Minnesota River and the metropolitan section of the

Mississippi be improved substantially.  The directors of the

Port Snelling State Park Association sincerely hope that the

conferees give serious consideration to the anticipated

heavy recreational use of these sections of the rivers when

their final recommendations are adopted.

-------
                                                           631
     First Unitarian Soc.  of Minneapolis,  G.  Dinner

            Thank you.


            MR. STEIN:  Thank you.


            Are there any comments  or questions?


            (No response.)


            MR. STEIN:  If not, thank you very much.


            Mr. Smith?


            MR. SMITH:  The next is the statement by the


Pollution Control Unit of the Social Concern  Committee,  First

Unitarian Society of Minneapolis.




            STATEMENT OF POLLUTION CONTROL UNIT OF


            THE SOCIAL CONCERN COMMITTEE,  FIRST


            UNITARIAN SOCIETY OF MINNEAPOLIS, AS


            READ BY GARY GINNER, MINNESOTA DEPART-


                       MENT OF HEALTH

            MR. GINNER:  Statement  by Pollution-Control  Unit


of the Social Concern Committee, First Unitarian Society of


Minneapolis.


            Our purpose here is to  urge taking the strongest

possible measures to clean up the 270 miles of rivers covered


by the study presented today.

            We all contribute to pollution, although nobody


favors it.  We don't really want to be a dirty society,  but

simply can't stop the outpouring of waste that fouls our

-------
                                                        632
       First Unitarian Soc. of Minneapolis, G.  Glnner

world.  So we welcome today's conference as a step toward

deciding on a course that will restore and guard our nearby

rivers system.  Let us be sure we do enough for that purpose.

            The cost will be high -- in money,  self-discipline,

and strenuous persuasion.

            Municipalities are big offenders, and they do  not

spend money lightly.  Some businesses have been appallingly

irresponsible in their use of our rivers to dump massive

amounts of damaging waste; and they still persist and will

persist until we can force them to halt.

            Each of us, in one way or another,  as taxpayer

or stockholder, has a small immediate selfish interest in  non-

action in this effort at reversal.  Each of us has a tremendous

enlightened self-interest in doing as much as is needed to

make these rivers clean and beautiful again.

                      Keith Emery, Chairman

                      Pollution Control Subcommittee

                      First Unitarian Society of Minneapolis,

                                               Minnesota.

            MR. STEIN:  Thank you.

            Are there any comments or questions?

             (No response. )

            MR. STEIN:   If not, Mr. Smith?

            MR. SMITH:  The next  statement  is from  the

-------
                                                           633
       Community Wild Life Club, St. Cloud, G. Ginner

Community Wild Life Club, Inc., of St. Cloud.
            STATEMENT OP THE COMMUNITY WILD LIFE

            CLUB, INC., ST. CLOUD, MINNESOTA, AS

            READ BY GARY GINNER, MINNESOTA DEPART-

                       MENT OF HEALTH

            MR. GINNER:  This is dated February 25, 1967,

and reads:

            Statement for Federal hearing, February 28, 1967,

by Community Wild Life Club, Inc., St. Cloud, Minnesota (700

members).

            1.  We have had inquiries from Twin City groups

concerning the potential use of the Mississippi River from

above Anoka to Brainerd as a recreational area.  We, in St.

Cloud, realize the increasing population pressures and uses

that will be placed on water-based activities.  We ask that

the Minnesota River from Mankato to its mouth be used for

whole body contact recreational use.

            2,  The Masonic Home on the old Shakopee Road

is mentioned in your report as polluting the Minnesota River.

This home has a resident population of 200 people,  Bto where

in this report do we find mention of pollution from private

homes along the rivers both in and out of municipalities.

Forty homes, with an average of three to five members per

-------
    Community Wild Life Club, St. Cloud, G. Dinner



family, could produce an effluent equal to the Masonic Home.



Our survey of the Mississippi River area from Anoka to




Brainerd shows several hundred homes, many of which are dis-



charging untreated sewage into the water. (We have compiled



logs on three such areas. )



            In view of your General Recommendations #1, Page




27, and #3, Page 30, we believe an additional recommendation



is needed to cover this source of pollution.



                     /a/ Don Andrews



                         Gerald Henningsgaard



                        Co-chairmen, Water Pollution Committe



                         St. Cloud Community Wildlife Club



                         St. Cloud, Minnesota



            MR. STEIN:  Thank you.



            Are there any comments or questions?



            (No response. )



            MR. STEIN:  If not, thank you very much.




            Mr. Smith?



            MR. SMITH:  The next statement is from the Sierra



Club, Great Lakes Chapter, North Star Section, Minnesota.








            STATEMENT OP THE SIERRA CLUB, GREAT LAKES




            CHAPTER,NORTH STAR  (MINNESOTA) SECTION, AS



            READ BY DONALD J. THIMSEN, MINNESOTA  DEPART-



                           MENT  OP HEALTH

-------
                                                         635
               Sierra Club, by D. J. Thimsen

            MR. THIMSEN:  This is a letter dated February

27, 1967, addressed to Mr. Murray Stein, Federal Water Pollu-

tion Control Commission, Department of the Interior, Washington,

D. C.

Dear Sir:

            We of the North Star Section of the Sierra Club

wish that the following statement be entered into the record

of the hearing conference in the matter of pollution of the

interstate and intrastate waters of the upper Mississippi

River and its tributaries (Minnesota and Wisconsin):

            Through the 19th Century, Americans found abundant

clean air and water.  Regardless of conditions they may have

earlier been accustomed to in Europe, they undoubtedly came

to expect as a right the abundance of all natural resources

of the United States.  In this overwhelming abundance, the

thought of conservation occurred to no one but a very few

visionaries.  Likewise, with our many and ample rivers, dis-

posal of wastes seemed no problem.  Each man dumped his little

bit into the river and saw it vanish.

            With increased population, this condition of

abundance disappeared.  Today, an objective look can only show

we do not have unlimited natural resources.  We do not have

unlimited clean airj polluted air is killing human beings

now.  We do not have unlimited clean water; cities over the

-------
                                                           636
                 Sierra Club, by D. J. Thimsen

entire Nation are forced to great pains and expense to find

water that is not laden with others' sewage and refuse.

            However, men's attitudes have not changed.  The

ingrained habits of the past are still with us, and Americans

are still conditioned to the concept of bountifulness.  With

our population still increasing, it is obvious to all that

these habits must change eventually.  We of the Sierra Club

believe that the time for change is now.  We further believe

that an overwhelming majority of the citizens would, on

reflection, agree with us.

            The oil dumpings in the Minnesota River that

precipitated these hearings were dramatic examples of grossly

inexcusable accidents.  However, no less damaging, and far

more insidious, is the day-by-day influx of pollutants from

practically all municipalities and industries.  It is this

pollution that must be ended.  Europeans are now beginning to

recognize this, as witness the organization in the Ruhr Basin

of Germany.  Although the political methods used along the

Ruhr would be unacceptable in this country, they do illus-

trate that rivers in industrial regions can be kept clean,

at costs that are not excessive.

            The recommendations of the upper Mississippi

study represent another solution.  Implementation of these

recommendations will help to turn the tide of increasing

-------
                                                       637
             Sierra Club, by D. J. Thimsen

pollution in this region.  It will, at reasonable cost to


all concerned, serve as a start on the road to the clean

rivers that we believe we citizens of the United States still

have a right to expect.  Therefore, the Sierra Club strongly

encourages acceptance of these recommendations.


                     Sincerely,

                     Carl W. Ehrman, Conservation Chairman

                     400 Maple Avenue, N.E.

                     Minneapolis, Minnesota 55*132


Executive Committee, North Star Section:


   Mrs. Ann Hooke, Chairman

   Mrs. Marilyn Anderson

   Mr. Gerald R. Ault

   Mr. Donald R. Caster


   Mr. Walter N. Clauson

   Mr. Carl W. Ehrman


   Mr. Chauncey Greene

   Mr. Robert D. O'Hara

            MR. STEIN:  Thank you.

            Are there any comments or questions?


            (No response.)

            MR. STEIN:  Thank you very much.


            Mr. Smith?


            MR. SMITH:  I have one more statement from the


Northwest Airlines Sportsmen Association.

-------
                                                      638
      N.W. Airlines Sportsmen Assoc., D. J. Thimsen

            STATEMENT OP THE NORTHWEST AIRLINES
            SPORTSMEN ASSOCIATION, AS READ BY
            DONALD J. THIMSEN, MINNESOTA DEPART-
                     MENT OP HEALTH
            MR. THIMSEN:  This is a statement submitted by
Willard Zell, Conservation Officer, Northwest Airlines Sports-
men Association, and also co-signed by Gene Hedegaard,
Secretary, 10318 York Lane, Minneapolis, Minnesota.
Gentlemen:
            We are grateful for the opportunity to have been
able to review the summary of this Twin Cities Upper
Mississippi River Project Study and being able to attend this
conference.
            As conservation officer for the Northwest Airlines
Sportsmen's Association, I have been requested by our members
to make the following statement for them.
            Our present membership totals 96 members, of
which a majority are airline employees in various capacities
with the airlines.  The purpose of our group is defined in
our by-laws, which read, "The purpose of this non-profit
organization shall be to encourage citizens of our community
to actively participate in the organization of all field

-------
                                                      639
       N.W. Airlines Sportsmen Assoc., D. J. Thimsen
sports in their community and to strive for a united effort
to further by educational and implementive programs, the con-
servation of our natural and recreational resources."
            We are affiliated with the Minnesota Conservation
Federation and the National Wildlife Federation.  As affili-
ates of these organizations, we actively participate in the
formation of its policies by submitting and voting on resolu-
tions which guide their activities.
            We do not appear before this conference with any
graphs, charts, maps or bundles of data, nor do we make any
claims of great engineering, scientific or biological
knowledge.
            We are here before you as a citizens  group with
a sincere interest in one of our most precious resources --
water.
            It has been in the past and it will be in the
future the policy of this group to work for and support any
movement which will assure us that this resource will be
maintained to the highest degree.
            Why, for instance, should we accept a recommenda-
tion which according to this study report would provide main-
tenance of habitat for game fish only in specific segments
of these rivers, such as the Minnesota River from Mankato to
Chaska.  What about from Chaska to the mouth of the Minnesota

-------
                                                        640
       N. W. Airlines Sportsmen Assoc., D.  J. Thimsen
at the Fort Snelling State Park?  Why not adequate habitat
for game fish in all segments?  We wonder how fish would be
able to, in migration, be able to distinguish a demarcation
line.
            Why not whole body contact recreational activi-
ties for all segments?  Certainly this is possible, and what
esthetic enjoyment would there be to view a river and to know
that below the surface runs water in which only decay and
filth can survive?
            Gentlemen, we therefore respectfully request
that the water quality standards for the entire study area
be such that they will support the portions of the water uses
as defined in Items B through M on Page 28 of the Study
Summary.
            If this requires our municipalities and Institu-
tions to have secondary treatment plus sewage disposal plants,
or our industry to have adequate waste treatment facilities,
or power plants to have proper cooling equipment, or any other
requirement that may be necessary, let's work toward that goal
before these pollution problems turn into chaos.
            In conclusion, we would like to say we believe
these things can be achieved and are sure that all citizens
would support them, if only they would be so informed of the
facts.

-------
                       A. A. Ebert






            MR. STEIN:  Thank you.



            Are there any comments or questions?



            (No response. )



            MR. STEIN:  If not, Mr. Smith?



            MR. SMITH:  I have a statement by the Minnesota



Chapter of the American Society of Sanitary Engineering.








            STATEMENT OP ARTHUR A. EBERT, PRESIDENT,



            MINNESOTA CHAPTER, AMERICAN SOCIETY OP



                      SANITARY ENGINEERING



            MR. EBERT:  Mr. Stein and Conferees:



            I am the President of the Minnesota Chapter of



the American Society of Sanitary Engineering.



            The Minnesota Chapter, American Society of




Sanitary Engineering, appreciates the opportunity to analyze



the Summary and Pollution Abatement Recommendations for the



Upper Mississippi River and major tributaries.   We are also



appreciative of the invitation to submit a statement concern-



ing the recommendations.



            In our judgment, the study of the 270 miles of



the upper Mississippi River and major tributaries is a highly



satisfactory completion of the duties assigned the study




group and reflects credit upon its Director, Dr. Albert



Printz, Jr., and his colleagues.  The study was conducted

-------
                                                       642
                       A. A. Ebert

with a high degree of objectivity and desire to reflect a

true picture of the conditions in the 270 miles of river in-

cluded in the study project.

            As interested, concerned residents of the areas

involved in the Upper Mississippi River Project Study, the

Minnesota Chapter, American Society of Sanitary Engineering,

believes the effectiveness of the study project could be

increased markedly with no added hardship to persons, firms,

and communities.  We therefore urge adoption of the following

additions to the recommendations:

            A,  Due to the high rates of fertilization in the

rivers included in the project study, we respectfully request

the conferees to give serious consideration to inclusion of

high-rate phosphate and nitrate removal treatment requirements

for all waters discharged to these rivers.

            B.  We earnestly recommend the inclusion by the

conferees of an effective, high quality mandatory training

plan and certification program for all sewage treatment plant

personnel employed in the plants discharging wastes to the

rivers included in the study project.

            C. In order to alleviate thermal pollution in

the project study river basins, we request the inclusion of

discharge water cooling facilities of sufficient capacity

to maintain condenser wastes at temperatures not to exceed

-------
                                                      643



                   A. A. Ebert



83 degrees Fahrenheit at all times.




            D.  We urge the Conferees to give serious consi-



deration to the highly desirable up-grading of three sections



of the study project rivers.



              1.  Mississippi River:  Minneapolis-St. Paul



                  Sanitary District to Lock and Dam Number 2



                  to be included as a habitat for Group 1




                  fish (page 28, section b, in Recommendations).



              2.  Mississippi River:  Minnesota River to Lock




                  and Dam Number 2 to be included as a whole



                  body contact recreational activity area



                  (page 28, section c, in Recommendations).



              3.  Minnesota River:  Mankato to confluence of



                  Mississippi River to be included as a whole



                  body contact recreational activity area



                  (page 28, section c, in Recommendations).



            E.  We respectfully request the Conferees to



advance the timetable of the Remedial Program to 24 months



instead of the 36 months contained in the Recommendations.



            In their deliberations following the Conference,



the distinguished Conferees are respectfully requested to



include the preceding recommendations as a means of expediting



the enhancement of the ecological systems in the river




basins under study.

-------
                     A. A. Ebert
          Thank you.
          MR. STEIN:  Thank you, air.
          You know, since this is part of an educational
approach, Just let me make two points —
          MR. EBERT:  Pardon me?
          MR. STEIN:  Just let me make two points.
          The first is that several people have come up
with this 83 degree temperature, and the Minneapolis-St. Paul
Sanitary District indicated what temperature, 86?  I am not
sure, but this la something you want to check, whether the
water naturally doesn't go above 83 at times in these rivers
even if you put nothing in it.
          The other point is that I am as firm as the next
one on as rapid a time schedule as possible.
          There have been several people who have criticized
this three-year proposal.  Generally speaking, it has been
our experience that it takes as long to design the plant and
get the financing arranged and do all that work as it does to
construct.  In other words, if it takes a year to build, it
takes a year to get your design and paper work.  It doesn't
pay to build unless you are doing it right.
          Now, I say this Just advisedly.  If we were
running a dictatorship here; if we had all the power and
all the money in the world; if right now we pressed the

-------
                                                       645
                     A. A. Ebert
button to get this thing going and threw in all the resources
and we didn't care about the costs; if we could do this all
now and had a crash program like that, as if we were going
to move in developing the atomic bomb or something; if we did
it in two years, we would be lucky.
          We know we do not have that here, so the question,
I think, is to come up with a realistic time schedule.
          Again, I am not trying to change anybody's mind.
In my opinion the setting of too rigid a time schedule is
even worse than setting one which is too lenient.  Here is
what happens:  When you set coo rigid a time schedule that
can't be met and the time passes, you are beyond it, and
then no one pays attention to the order.
          The point is you have to try to set a realistic
time schedule.
          As one of the people here, I ask you to go back
in your organization and examine this time schedule, because
I do think that the scientific people here have made, as
far as I can see, as tight a recommendation as could reason-
ably be held.
          Maybe this is a little unrealistic, and to be
unrealistic we have lost the battle.
          Are there any further questions or comments?
          (No response. )

-------
                                                        646






                    A. A. Ebert






            MR, STEIN:  Thank you very much.



            Mr. Smith?



            MR. SMITH:  Are there any other civic organiza-



tions or sportsmen's clubs that I have missed?



            (No response. )



            MR. SMITH:  Apparently this is all.



            MR. STEIN:  We will turn to Wisconsin.



            MR. WISNIEWSKI:  Mr. Chairman, you have a couple



of letters there from Wisconsin people, I believe.




            MR. STEIN:  Yes.  Did you want to put these in



the record?



            MR. WISNIEWSKI:  Yes.



            I would like to read into the record a letter



from Mr. Jack Nelson, Supervisor of Ellsworth, Wisconsin,



addressed to Mr. Murray Stein, Water Pollution Control



Conference, Minneapolis, Minnesota:



      "Dear Mr. Stein:



            "The Pierce County Board of Supervisors accept



      and endorse the recommendations of the Federal Water



      Pollution Control Administration on the Twin Cities-



      Upper Mississippi River Project with the provision



      that the standards be maintained and improved as




      advancing technology permits.

-------
                                                       647





                    "Very truly yours,




                     Jack Nelson, supervisor



               /s/   Jack Nelson"



            I have another letter addressed to Mr. Stein



from Bay City, Wisconsin, which reads:




            "The Village of Bay City and the Wisconsin



      Cons a*vatlon Congress accept and endorse the



      recommendations of the Federal Water Pollution



      Control Administration on the Twin Cities-Upper



      Mississippi River Project with the provision that



      the standards be maintained and improved as ad-



      vancing technology permits.



                    "Very truly yours,



                /s/  Lloyd V. Spriggle"




            I would like to have these included in the record,



            MR. STEIN:  Thank you.



            MR. WISNIEWSKI:  Are there any other people from



Wisconsin communities here who would like to enter a state-



ment?



            (No response. )



            MR. WISNIEWSKI:  If not, are there any from



Wisconsin organizations or industries who would like to enter



a statement?



            (No response.)

-------
                                                     648






            MR. WISNIEWSKI:  There being none, we have no



further comment.



            Mr. Odegard would like to make a comment.



            MR. STEIN:  Yes.



            MR. ODEGARD:  I would just like to make one little



correction for the record.




            Technically I am apparently designated as a



conferee from Wisconsin.  I am from the Minnesota-Wisconsin



Boundary Area Commission.




            There was no way under the existing law for me



to be appointed by the Federal Government or by the two



States, so Wisconsin took the opportunity, or gave me the



opportunity by designating me as a Wisconsin member, but I




want it understood that we are acting in our regular capacity



as an interstate compact position interested in air pollution



and water pollution and regional development for the whole



boundary area.  We are truly interstate and have about the



same interest as the Federal Government in this case.



            DR. HARGRAVES:  Mr. Chairman, I, as the Chairman



of the Minnesota delegation, want to correct my error, because



I told Mr. Odegard this would be one of the early things that



I would say, but it slipped away from me, so it will perhaps



be the last thing I will say.  However, we are happy to have



Mr. Odegard among the conferees representing Wisconsin as

-------
        Robblnsdale Sportsmens Club, 0. Ginner




well as Minnesota.




            MR. STEIN:  Mr. Smith?



            MR. SMITH:  Mr. Stein, I have one more statement.



This is from the Robbinsdale Sportsmens Club, Inc.








            STATEMENT OF THE ROBBINSDALE SPORTSMENS



            CLUB, INC., AS READ BY GARY GINNER,



                MINNESOTA DEPARTMENT OP HEALTH



            MR. GINNER:  This is dated February 28, 1967.



To Conference in the Matter of Pollution of Upper Mississippi



River and its Major Tributaries



Federal Water Pollution Control Administration



U. S. Department of Interior



Mr. Chairman and Members of the Conference:



            The Robbinsdale Sportsmens  Club, with members



from many communities in Hennepin County, wishes to thank




this conference for the invitation to present a statement at



this important hearing.



            Our club's 26-year history in conservation



activities has kept us aware of the constantly degrading



quality levels of our river systems.  We are not technically



qualified to present facts and statistics about water



standards, but we feel we can offer some comments from the



layman's point of view.



            Ideally, we would suggest our rivers be controlled

-------
                                                       650



        Robbinsdale Sportsmena Club, G. Ginner



sufficiently to provide water usable along their entire



length for (l) human consumption (after treatment) and (2)



recreational activities including swimming and sport fishing.



            The assumption on the part of water users that



they are free to abuse the quality of our water resources



without penalty must be declared wrong.  Penalties for such



abuses should be established immediately to provide, in



effect, a "water abuse tax" of sufficient magnitude to make



it desirable and an economic necessity for water abusers to



discontinue their offensive practices.



            The Recommendations of the Federal Water Pollu-



tion Control Administration released in January 1967 are the



minimum acceptable standards to be established.  Upgrading



of these recommendations shall be made as quickly as possible



as time and knowledge of this major problem permit.



                      Respectfully submitted



               /s/    Lenny Hockert



                      President.



            MR. STEIN:  Thank you.



            Are there any comments or questions?



            (No response.)



            MR. STEIN:  If not, Mr. Smith, does that conclude



the presentation by Minnesota?



            MR. SMITH:  Yes, that concludes it.

-------
                                                      651
           Corps of Engineers, Win. T. Sayers
            MR. STEIN:  Is there any more from Wisconsin?


            MR. WISNIEWSKI:  No.


            MR. STEIN:  As you know, we changed the order to


accommodate the people who came, and Mr. Poston, I believe,


still has some Federal representatives.


            Mr. Poston?


            MR. POSTON:  We had several Federal agencies who


were here yesterday to give statements.


            I believe Mr. Ryder of the Corps of Engineers is


here to read a statement of Colonel Hesse, the District


Engineer of the Corps of Engineers in Minneapolis.


            Is Mr. Ryder here?


            (No response. )


            MR. POSTON:  He was here.  Because he isn't here,


I will ask Mr. Sayers to read this statement.





            STATEMENT OF THE CORPS OF ENGINEERS, ST.


            PAUL, MINNESOTA, AS READ BY WILLIAM T.


            SAYERS, DEPUTY PROJECT DIRECTOR, FEDERAL


            WATER POLLUTION CONTROL ADMINISTRATION,


            TWIN CITIES PROJECT, MINNEAPOLIS, MINNESOTA


            MR. SAYERS:  Statement of Corps of Engineers, St.


Paul, Minnesota, for Conference on Pollution of the Upper


Mississippi River, Minneapolis, Minnesota, 28 February 1967.

-------
                                                    652



              Corps of Engineers, Wm. T. Sayers



            1.  The Twin Cities Upper Mississippi River



Project, Federal Water Pollution Control Administration in



a report on pollution abatement recommendations for the



upper Mississippi River and its major tributaries recommended



that:




            a.  Present plans for improvement or replacement



of inadequately sized sanitary treatment facilities at the



locks and dams on the Mississippi River in this district be




continued.



            b.  At stream flows of 7,000 cubic feet per



second  (cfs) or less (as measured at the St. Paul gage), as



much water as possible be passed over bulkheads before the



Tainter gates at Lock and Dam No. 2 at Hastings, Minnesota,



Mile 815.2.  At flows of 3,000 cfs or less, the equivalent



of the  inflow to Pool No. 2 should be passed over the bulk-



heads .



            c.  A planned schedule of analyses be continued



on effluent from the waste treatment facilities of the



Dredge  WM. A. THOMPSON so as to insure adequate removals




prior to overboard discharge of effluent.



            2.  At the present time, the sanitary treatment



facilities of only one of the thirteen locks and dams on the



Mississippi River in this district  (Lock and Dam No. 9 near



Lynxville, Wisconsin, Mile 64?.9) is considered inadequate;

-------
                                                     653



               Corps of Engineers, Wm. T. Sayers



and improvement and/or replacement of these facilities are



scheduled in 1967.  Of the remaining twelve locks and dama,



two sites (the control station at Upper St. Anthony Palls



locks at Minneapolis, Mile 853.7, and the control station



and the two dwellings at Lock and Dam No. 10, Outtenberg,



Iowa, Mile 615.1) are connected to the adjacent city-owned



systems.  The remaining ten locks and dams are equipped with



sanitary treatment facilities consisting of septic tanks,



cesspools, and dry wells.  Such facilities are considered to



be operating adequately in treating sanitary wastes and in



discharging inert effluents into the river.



            3.  Operation of Lock and Dam No. 2 as outlined



in Paragraph la. above has been carried on since the winter



of 196^.  This program has not created any operational prob-



lems, although the bulkheads were lost during the 1965 flood



and were later replaced.  At the present time, storage of



the bulkheads on the dam's bridge limits to some degree the



working area at the site.



            4.  Analysis of the effluent from the sanitary



facilities of the dredge WM. A. THOMPSON while in operation



is being continued to insure adequate treatment and removal



of pollutants prior to discharge in the river.  Installation



of sanitary sewage treatment facilities on barges 719 and



761, and on the Derrickboat 767 is in progress and should be

-------
            Corps of Engineers, Wm. T. Sayers       654




completed on about 1 May 1967.



            5.  In summary, the installations and floating



plant under the direction of the Corps of Engineers, St.



Paul District, on the Mississippi River,  do not contribute



to the pollution of the waterway.  This office will continue



to monitor our installations and floating plant to insure



efficient operation of the sanitary facilities and will




cooperate fully in any pollution abatement program.



            MR. STEIN:  Thank you.



            I wonder if you fellows know  what kind of



installation the Corps is putting on their boats?  I don't



know if you can answer that.



            MR, POSTON:  I think he can.



            MR. SAYERS:  The dredge WM. A. THOMPSON has



extended aeration treatment facilities on it.  They were




placed in operation, to my knowledge, I believe, early last



year, and they have been operating all summer.  Also, to



my knowledge they have been operating satisfactorily.



            MR. POSTON:  This doesn't include chlorination




too?



            MR. SAYERS:  I am not certain.



            MR. STEIN:  Well, how about those other two




barges?



            MR. SAYERS:  I am not familiar with the operation




of the barges.

-------
                    R. E. Scheible                    655



            MR. STEIN:  All right.  Thank you.



            MR. POSTON:  Are you ready for the  next?



            MR. STEIN:  Yes.



            MR. POSTON:  Mr. Scheible of the U. S. Army



Fifth Army Headquarters.








            STATEMENT OP ROBERT E. SCHEIBLE, CHIEF



            OF SANITARY AND ELECTRICAL ENGINEERING,



            DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY, HEADQUARTERS,



            FIFTH UNITED STATES ARMY



            MR. SCHEIBLE:  Mr. Chairman, Conferees, Ladles




and Gentlemen:



            For the record, I am Robert E. Scheible.  I am



Chief of Sanitary and Electrical Engineering for Headquarters,



Fifth United States Army.



            I will first read a letter from Headquarters,



Fifth U.S. Army, signed by Captain J. M. Roberts, Assistant



Adjutant General, for the Army Commander:

-------
                                                      656
                   R. E. Schelble

               DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY

        HEADQUARTERS FIFTH UNITED STATES ARMY

            1660 East Hyde Park Boulevard

                Chicago, Illinois 60615

In Reply Refer to:           27 February 196?
ALFGD-EU

Conferees of the Conference on

Pollution of the Interstate Waters

of the Upper Mississippi River

Leamington Hotel

10th Street South & 3d Avenue South

Minneapolis, Minnesota 55^01

Gentlemen:

        The inclosed statement covers this headquarters

activities in regard to pollution abatement and control in

the Upper Mississippi River Basin and in regard to actions

recommended by the Federal Water Pollution Control Admini-

stration affecting various U. S. Army NIKE site facilities

in this basin.

        Subject statement is submitted pursuant to the U.S.

Department of the Interior   Notice to Federal Agencies on

the reconvening of the conference and pursuant to the Summaiy

and Pollution Abatement Recommendations referenced in this

notice.
                           Sincerely,
1 Incl             (Signed) J. M. Roberts, Captain, AGC
  Statement                 Asst. Adjutant General

-------
                                                       657



                    R. E. Schelble




          The statement Is as follows:



          Headquarters Fifth United States Army welcomes



the opportunity to participate in this conference covering



the very Important matter of water pollution abatement in



the Upper Mississippi River Basin.  In this regard, this



headquarters will continue cooperating to the fullest extent



possible with the Federal Water Pollution Control Admini-



stration as well as the Minnesota and Wisconsin Water Pollu-



tion Control Regulatory authorities in implementing all



needed actions.  Directives covering this cooperation have



been established by the Department of Defense and the



Department of the Army and include Department of Defense



Directive 5100.50, Army Regulation 420-46, "Water & Sewage,"



and Army Regulation 11-21, "Environmental Pollution Control."



          The basic water pollution control policy of this



headquarters requires that operation and maintenance of all



sewage treatment facilities under its command be at the



highest possible level.  Performance at a level lower than



that reasonably attainable from the existing facilities is



unacceptable to this headquarters.  The facilities will,



of course, be operated to meet all published performance



standards of the Federal Water Pollution Control Administra-



tion and the Minnesota and Wisconsin Water Pollution Control



Regulatory authorities.

-------
                                                       658
                    R. E. Sohelble
          The primary prerequisite for meeting these per-
formance levels and standards, since adequate treatment
facilities already exist, is well trained operators.  To
further improve the skill levels of each site man, this
headquarters is planning to supplement the training made
available by the Minnesota and Wisconsin regulatory authori-
ties by conducting its own short course, specifically
orientated to operation, maintenance and laboratory testing
of the NIKE site facilities.  The net result should be a
further improvement in the already generally satisfactory
level of performance.
          In regard to the general recommendations, this
headquarters basically concurs with their intent] however,
they imply that this headquarters is not now In compliance
with these recommendations.  This is incorrect as follows:
          a.   Recommendation No. 1 states that a minimum
          of one hour per day must be devoted to sewage
          treatment, Implying that this Is not now being
          accomplished.  Each site man already spends about
          five hours per week in operation and maintenance.
          Since some laboratory testing is being accomplished
          off-site at local municipalities, the time spent
          in this regard must be added to that spent on-slte.

-------
                                          659




         R. E. Schelble



The time spent on both of these items approximates



the recommended one hour per day.  This head-



quarters, however, feels that the imposition of



an arbitrarily determined amount of time is not



justified.  The criteria for determining whether



adequate time is being devoted to sewage treatment



should be whether, in fact, operation and main-



tenance is at a satisfactory or unsatisfactory



level.  During the recent inspection 27-28 October



1966 by a representative of the Federal Water



Pollution Control Administration and a representa-



tive of this headquarters, it was observed that,



with minor exceptions, operation and maintenance



were at a satisfactory level.  It is therefore



concluded that adequate time is being devoted to



operation and maintenance and recommendations In



regard to these areas should be limited to de-



ficiencies t'mt, in fact, exist.  This head-



quarters will continue to devote the necessary



time to operation and maintenance, and laboratory



testing, whether this time requirement is more or



less than one hour per day.



b.   Recommendation No. 2 states that all

-------
                                             660
          R. E. Soheible
facilities should be operated to achieve their
designed removal efficiencies.  This implies
that all treatment facilities were not achieving
their designed removal efficiencies when, in
fact, only one of the four treatment facilities,
namely, MS-90, Bethel, Minnesota, was not per-
forming up to its designed ability.  Changes in
operational methods, primarily continuous re-
clrculation, have been made to improve treatment
performance at this site.  Recommendations to
accomplish what Is already being accomplished
appear inappropriate and, again, recommendations
should be limited to specific problems where they
exist.
c.   Recommendation No. 3 requires certain minimal
laboratory testing.  No indication is made of the
fact that limited laboratory testing was being
accomplished at all sites as follows:
     (1)  Imhoff cone settling tests are being
generally accomplished at the recommended frequency;
     (2)  BOD tests on a two-to-four-time per
month basis are being performed in lieu of relative
stability.  This headquarters feels that the

-------
                                           661



          R. E. Schelble



relative stability test Is of little value and



would prefer the considerably more useful BOD



test on a lesser frequency.  It has already been



indicated that some laboratory testing is being



performed by local municipalities due to limited



testing facilities at the NIKE sites.  This



approach is, however, extremely costly and each



site Is therefore planning to purchase one auto-



matic BOD analyzer, which will permit even more



frequent analysis for BOD on both effluent and



Influent;



     (3)  chlorlnation tests would, of course,



only apply to those sites practicing chlorlnation.



In view of the extremely low flow from these sites,



usually less than 0.01 MGD, twice weekly tests for



chlorine residual would appear appropriate;



     (4)  activated sludge testing is not applicable



to these sites since only one package-type



activated sludge plant is provided, since this



plant is so lightly loaded that a biota cannot



be sustained and, therefore, laboratory testing



for sludge index and dissolved oxygen would not



affect plant performance or cause any operational



changes to be made, and since the polishing lagoon

-------
                                                    662





                    R. E. Schelble



          following this package plant is of such capacity



          that overflow into a natural water course does



          not occur.



          In regard to specific recommendation No. 1 for



MS-40, Farmlngton, Minnesota, which requests termination



of the present discharge to the roadside ditch with con-



current extension of the outfall sewer, the Corps of Engineers,



during the early stages of construction of this site,



obtained a permit from the Dakota County Highway Department



to install this sewer on county property.  Since the permit



application included drawings showing the affected area,



all of which was within the road right-of-way, and since



no approval was requested for sewer construction within



the right-of-way beyond the road intersection, it is con-



cluded that subject permit Included approval to discharge



into the roadside ditch.  Also, paragraph 6.3 of the



Minnesota State Department of Health Standards for Sewage



Treatment permits such discharges when appropriate.  Since,



during the Inspection Indicated above, both participants



made a careful, detailed inspection of this ditch, and



since no evidence of any pollution,, or even of a treated



sewage effluent, was observed, and since the functional



use of this ditch was obviously not being impaired, it is

-------
                                                     663
                    R. E. Sohelble
concluded that this discharge is appropriate.  Although a
permit has already been issued, an after-the-fact approval
of the Minnesota State Department of Health will be re-
quested to ensure completeness of the record.  In view of
this, the suggested time table on Page 34 of the recommenda-
tions is not applicable.
          In regard to the specific recommendations for
chlorination at MS-40 and MS-90, it is questionable if
disinfection will be required to meet standard 3c shown on
Page 34 of the recommendations.  Standard 3d would not
apply since the receiving streams are not used for whole
body contact activities.  Currently the treatment facilities
are operating at about 10 to 20 percent of the original
design capacity.  This necessitates substantial reclrculation
rates to properly maintain facilities.  This, of course,
produces an exceptionally high degree of treatment, with
corresponding collform reductions, and it appears possible
to meet standard 3c without chlorination.  Testing will
be Instituted to verify this position.  Should this position
be incorrect, existing chlorination facilities at MS-40 and
MS-90 will be activated and operated in compliance with
standard 3c.

SUMMARY

-------
                                                       664



                    R.  E.  Scheible




            1.  This headquarters will continue to devote



the necessary time to sewage treatment activities.



            2.  This headquarters will continue to operate



the facilities to achieve  their designed removal efficiencies.



            3.  With the approval of the conferees, laboratory



testing as indicated above will continue to be routinely



accomplished.




            4.  Formal, after-the-fact approval of the MS-40



discharge to the roadside  ditch will be requested.



            5.  Chlorination requirements will be evaluated



by the laboratory control  and chlorination facilities at



MS-40 and MS-90 will be activated if necessary.








            Thank you.



            MR. STEIN:   Thank you.



            Are there any  comments or questions?



            MR. POSTON:  I might say thank you, Mr. Scheible,



and I am very happy to note that the facilities, of course,



will be operated to meet all the public performance standards




of the Federal Water Pollution Control Administration and



the Minnesota and Wisconsin Water pollution Control regulatory



authorities.



            I am sure that the conferees will meet here and



will come up with summaries, which, if they are in unison,

-------
                                                    665



                    R. E. Scheible



will be published by the Secretary, and a copy will be



submitted to you.




            MR. SCHEIBLE:  And we will meet those.



            MR. POSTON:  Yes, sir.  Thank you.



            MR. STEIN:  Are there any further statements, Mr.



Poston?




            MR. POSTON:  Are there any other Federal agencies



here who have a statement?



            (No response. )



            MR. POSTON:  I know that the Atomic Energy



Commission was here and the Housing and Urban Development



Department were represented here yesterday.  I don't know




whether they are here and wish to make a statement at this



time or not.



            If not, this is all of the Federal presentation.



            MR. STEIN:  Are there any more from the States?



            (No response. )



            MR. STEIN:  If not, we have been consulting with



the conferees.  I think this has been a very productive



session in getting all the information and reviews on the



table.  The conferees are going to give very careful con-



sideration to this material.



            Now, in view of commitments of tne conferees,



particularly some of the Wisconsin conferees, it was decided

-------
                                                       666



that the conferees would recess, and we will reconvene



in executive session in Minneapolis on March 20th of this



year.  It probably will be at nine o'clock, unless the



conferees subsequently decide on some other time.



            At that time the participation in the conference



will be done by the conferees and their staffs, but we are




not going to go into hiding, because we do business where



everyone can see us.



            In addition to that, I think it has become



evident that if we are going to get a real meaningful report,



we have to give our knowledge to certain technical problems



between now and then.  Therefore, I think we would like to



have a technical committee representing the States and the




Federal Government.



            This technical committee probably should be



headed by Mr. Wisniewski, Mr. Printz and Mr. Smith and their



staffs for the three groups represented at this table.



            There are at least three problems that I have



identified which should be resolved:



            1.  We have to come up with a uniform decision



on how we would decide BOD rates are going to be determined,



whether this 7-day every 10 years, or 1-day every 15 years,




but  let's try to resolve that.



            I think we did this with Minnesota and came to



a resolution on the Red River of the North.  I really do

-------
                                                      667



think we have to and should try to work that out,  and if



the conferees feel they will need any data and computer



time or hydrologists to work on that, possibly within the




next few days you should decide that, so that when the



technical committee meets you will have this data.



            Also, I believe it would be helpful if we could



iron out this notion of dump sanitary land fills on flood



banks.  It would be very helpful if the technical  staff did



come up with a recommendation that we can all live with on



that.  I don't think there is any difference in what we want




to do.



            The third point may be a matter of formulation,



but this is a question of coming up with an approach that




the conferees can consider on secondary treatment.  Referring



to this notion that both States took issue with and that I




had a little problem with of that 80 percent removal and



secondary treatment, I think if we can get a formulation



of that which will be acceptable for the conferees to proceed



on, it will be helpful.



            There may be other technical problems  which we



may want to identify now or later, but hopefully we should be



ready to go on those.



            I think we will have to use the recommendations



of all the conferees and the other people who made recommenda-



tions and suggestions for modification and consider those

-------
                                                     668



when we meet on March 20th.




            Are there any further statements or questions?



            (No response. )



            MR. STEIN:  Does anyone in the audience feel



that he wants to say something before we recess the



conference?




            MR. BADALICH:  Mr. Stein, would it be permissible



to submit supplemental data to the Commission?



            MR. STEIN:  Let me say this:  I have given this



to one party.  We are going to keep the record open for a



week.



            Off the record.



            (Discussion off the record. )



            MR. STEIN:  Are there any further comments?



            MR. POSTON:  Mr. Stein, it is clear that any of



the conferees who have items that they want considered by




the technical committee will submit them to their particular



representatives ?



            MR. STEIN:  Yes.  I hope this is so.  This is



not so extremely complicated as to cause a limitation on the



technical committee, but these are three of the areas that I



have identified.



            As a matter of fact, the more there is for the



technical committee to resolve, the nicer the executive



session is going to be, and the sooner we will be able to

-------
                                                     669



get out to enjoy the pleasures of Minneapolis.



            However, I would wish you take your mandate as



a broad mandate, and anything you fellows can agree on we



would be delighted to have.



            Are there any other comments or questions?



            A VOICE:  Mr. Chairman, after the executive



session will there be another public session?



            MR. STEIN:  We are not going to exclude the



public from the executive session.  We are not going to call



on you.



            There is nothing that we are going to do here



that we don't do in the open.  We have discussed this with



the representatives of both States.  We are all public




agencies doing a public job in a public manner, and we are



delighted to have you sit in and see how good or how bad



we are, and look at us.



            Are there any other comments or statements?



            (No response.)



            MR. STEIN:  If not, thank you all for coming.



            At the end of the public session, of course, we



will make an announcement.



            We stand recessed until March 20th.



            (Whereupon, at 5:05 p.m., an adjournment was




taken until Monday, March 20, 196?. )

-------
                                                         670



      (The following statements were submitted after the



close of the hearing for inclusion in the record:








                  ST. CROIX RIVER ASSOCIATION






                              Rivercrest Road



                              Route 5




                              Stillwater, Minnesota 55082



                              March 3, 196?






Mr. Murray Stein, Chairman



Federal Water Pollution Control Administration



U. S. Department of the Interior




633 Indiana Avenue, N.W.



Washington, D. C.






Dear Mr. Stein:



      Your recent "Report on Pollution of the Upper



Mississippi River and Major Tributaries" has revealed the



unfortunate extent of the degradation of the major riverways




of our region.



      The St. Croix River Association, with a membership




of almost 150 people living for the most part in the St.



Croix River valley or who live in the Twin City Metropolitan



area but are interested in the River, has during the more



than 50 years of its existence traditionally concerned itself

-------
                                                      671
with both the esthetic values and the water quality of the
St. Croix River.
          We have, however, become Increasingly aware that
the fate of the Mississippi and the Minnesota Rivers will
be the fate of the St. Croix unless the most strenuous
efforts are made to reverse the trends of the present use
of our rivers as municipal and industrial dumping grounds for
heat and waste. We are vitally concerned that the St. Croix
River does not go through the horrible cycle of death and
effort's at rebirth that the Mississippi River has.
          The extensive technical data in the report Identi-
fying the kinds of and location of the sources of pollution
provide a critical first-step in remedial action to eventually
correct this problem.  I am certain that your emphasis on
joint action by municipalities, the state and the Federal
government will receive strong support from our members who
have long felt that the region has the resources to deal with
the problem but lacked the will to organize a suitable program
of abatement.
          Your report and insistence for action under the
law merits the gratitude and support of the entire region.
                               Yours very truly,
                   /s/         C. R. Humphries
                               C. R. Humphries

-------
                                                      672



                         President



                         St. Croix River Association







                       * # #








        Statement of the Bureau of Commercial Fisheries,



        Department of the Interior, as part of record of



        the PWPCA Conference in the Matter of Pollution



        of the Interstate Waters of the Upper Mississippi



        River, Minneapolis, Minnesota, February 28, 1967








          The safeguarding and perpetuation of the fishery



resources of the Nation is a major responsibility of the



U. S. Bureau of Commercial Fisheries (Fish and Wildlife Act



of 1936),  Any practice or series of events which threatens



fisheries directly or militates against the well-being of



natural stocks even in the most subtle manner is of primary and



overriding concern to us,  we have pointed out repeatedly that



changes are occurring in the Nation's aquatic environment —



changes that seriously threaten fishery resources and tend to



deface the value and utility of this promised land.  No single



group or individual is responsible for these changes.  It is



the small addition contributed by one, compounded with those



contributed by others that results in creeping ruination of



a stream, a lake, or a major river.

-------
                                                       673



          The commercial fishery of the Upper Mississippi



River represents the largest discrete fishery on the inland



waters of the United States outside of the Great Lakes.



Landings of catfish, buffalo fish, sheepshead and carp,



averaging almost 12 million pounds annually, supply a large



portion of the demand for fresh water fishery products in



the Upper Mississippi Basin and surrounding areas.  Over




1600 fishermen are dependent on the River for at least a



portion of their income.



          The effects of poor water quality on the commercial



fishery is uniquely critical.  The more obvious signs of



gross degradation of the aquatic environment including



deficiencies in dissolved oxygen, major changes in bottom



fauna and the like, are clearly detrimental to the fishery



through direct reductions of fish populations.  A more subtle



aspect involves the tainting of fish flesh and the develop-



ment of unpleasant taste and odor qualities due to the



presence of such pollutants as oil wastes and phenolic com-



pounds.  This qualitative aspect is particularly important



to an industry whose products are distributed directly to the



consumer from the point of harvest.  Also, fish products



from the River are competing on the market with other fish



and meat substitutes where the consistent maintenance of



quality is a significant factor.  The tainting of flesh



frequently renders River fish unacceptable to the consumer

-------
                                                      674
and there is little the fisherman can do to correct the
situation.
          As a result the commercial fishery below St.
Louis has been severely curtailed due primarily to the
qualitative effects of water pollution. Basically, adequate
fish populations are present to support the fishery.  A
similar situation has been pointed out by the Minnesota
Conservation Department at the 196^ Pollution Conference on
the Upper Mississippi River held at St. Paul.  Frequent off-
flavor qualities of the catch from Spring Lake in Pool 2
have reduced selling prices and forced buyers to place fish
in holding ponds until these flavors have disappeared.  A
further movement downstream of these conditions would have
serious effects on the fishery of Lake Pepin.  This pool is
one of the most important on the River, exceeding all others
in average annual landings, and representing 10 to 15 percent
of the commercial catch on the River.
          The Bureau of Commercial Fisheries is now completing
an extensive study of the Upper Mississippi Basin fishery
through its participation in the Corps of Engineers Upper
Mississippi Basin Comprehensive Survey.  This study indicates
the central importance of the Mississippi River in the over-
 all future development of the Basin's fishery, particularly
in supplying regional demand for catfish.  We therefore
are extremely interested in the future course of water

-------
                                                      675



quality on the River and its tributaries.  This interest



has been implemented in our recent comments on the proposed



water quality standards of the State of Minnesota, which we



have submitted to FWPCA.  We stand ready to continue further




active participation in any and all future attempts to main-



tain and improve the water quality in the Upper Mississippi



Basin. )

-------