PROCEEDINGS
VOLUME 4
LAKE ERIE
Conference
In the matter off Pollution off
the navigable waters off the
Detroit River and Lake Erie
and their Tributaries in the
State off Michigan
SECOND SESSION
JUNE 15-18, 1965
U. S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, EDUCATION, AND WELFARE
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VOLUME 4
Conference
In the matter of Pollution of
the navigable waters of the
Detroit River and Lake Erie
and their Tributaries in the
State of Michigan
SECOND SESSION J U N E 15 - 18, 1 965
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF
HEALTH, EDUCATION, AND WELFARE
Public Health Service
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CONTENTS
PAGE;
OPENING STATEMENT
By Mr. Stein
STATEMENT OF:
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN D. DINGELL
REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAM D. FORD
RICHARD D. VAUGHAN
GEORGE L. HARLOW
ERNEST PREMETZ
GOVERNOR GEORGE ROMNEY
GOVERNOR JAMES RHODES
REPRESENTATIVE WESTON E. VIVIAN
COLONEL EDWARD C. BRUCE
LIEUTENANT MAURICE S» POWER
KENNETH MACKENTHUN
GERALD EDDY
RALPH PURDY
JOHN E. VOGT
C. C. CRUMLEY
AL BARBOUR
MERLIN DAMON
TODD Ac GAYER
JOHN CHASCSA
GERALD REMUS
16
30
44
703
852
858
871
880
912
927
1013
1015
1028
1092
1035
1062
1075
1110
1112
1118
1231
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1-A
CONTENTS,
PAGE:
STATEMENT OF;
GERARD H. COLEMAN 1435
GEORGE E. HUBBELL 1440
GEORGE J. HAZEY 1465
GENE LITTLE 1478
JAMES D. OGDEN 1490
OLGA M. MADAR 1493
FRED E. TUCKER 1505-A
HAYSE H. BLACK 1564
ROBERT c. MCLAUGHLIN 1570
FRANK KALLIN 1582
A. J. VON FRANK 1607
ROBERT P. LOGAN 1622
JACK T. GARRETT 1651
WILLIAM R. DAY 1655
J. W. TRACHT 1662
C. D. BARRETT, SR., M.D. 1716
STANLEY DIROFF 1749
WILLIS H. HALL 1771
CLOSING STATEMENT
Mr. Stein 1782
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911
WEDNESDAY, JUNE 16, 1965
9:30 A.M.
MR. STEIN: May we reconvene?
I would like to make a strong announcement
here requested by the Museum. There will be no smoking,
no smoking on the stage, no smoking in the audience, no
smoking in the wings.
Mr« Poston?
MR. POSTON: We have other Federal agencies
to report, and Colonel Bruce of the Corps of Engineers,
Detroit District Office, would like to make a statement.
Is Colonel Bruce here?
MR. STEIN: Just before we begin, we have
one more announcement.
MR. OEMING: Mr. Chairman and fellow Con-
ferees:
I want to announce that we have two alter-
nates this morning sitting in for Commission members«
Mr. Stanley Quackenbush is the alternate
for Mr. Mclntyre, Director of Agriculture, and Mr.
Gerald Eddy is alternate for Dr. Ralph MacMullan, Di-
rector of Conservation.
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912
STATEMENT OP COLONEL EDWARD C. BRUCE,
DISTRICT ENGINEER, U. S, ARMY ENGINEER DISTRICT,
DETROIT, MICHIGAN
COLONEL BRUCE: I am Colonel Edward C.
Bruce, District Engineer, U. S. Army Engineer District,
Detroit.
I welcome this opportunity to comment on two
aspects of the subject of water pollution. One is the
role of the Corps of Engineers in water pollution
control. The second is our response to the recommenda-
tions made in the Public Health Service study regarding
the Corps of Engineers maintenance dredging operations
in the Rouge and the Raisin Rivers.
First, regarding what is called the
Anti-Refuse Act - The Corps of Engineers is charged
with administration ©f Section 13 of the River and Harbor
Act of 3 March 1899 (33 USC 407), commonly known as
the "Antl-Refuse Act." Briefly, this section makes it
unlawful for anyone to discharge materials into a
navigable stream which may later have to be removed
by dredging, or by other means, to preserve navigation
channels. An extract which contains the exact wording
of this section is attached to this statement.
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Colonel Bruce 913
L
The courts have held that a deliberate or
heedless discharge of oil Into navigable waters by a
vessel operating on those waters comes within the
prohibition of 33 USC 40?.
Periodically we bring this law to the
attention of the public by distribution of a public
notice, and request that apparent or probable violations
be referred to the District Office. To enable us to
take appropriate action on an alleged violation, a report
should, if possible, Include the date, time, and place
of the act, in addition to the name of the vessel,
agency, or persons involved.
Where circumstances warrant such action, an
alleged violation will be referred to the United States
District Attorney for prosecution under 33 USC 411, a
penal statute which provides for a fine of from $500
to $2,500, and for imprisonment of fr*m thirty days to
one year, or both fine and imprisonment. Fortunately,
such action is rarely required.
Regarding the USPHS Report - The following
relates to observations and recommendations made by
the Public Health Service regarding Corps of Engineers
dredging operations on pages 124 and 125 of their report
entitled "Pollution of the Detroit River, Michigan
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Colonel Bruce 914
Waters of Lake Erie, and their Tributaries11
(April 1965). J will consider each recommendation,
in turn, identify the observation that occasioned the
recommendation, then provide the Detroit District's
oomment.
USPHS Recommendation; "l. The hopper
dredges discontinue disposing of the ship's trash and
garbage at the Raisin River disposing grounds."
USPHS Observation; Garbage was thrown
overboard (Oct. 1963) by Dredge Lyman on the dumping
grounds in Lake Erie. "It has been customary to dump
garbage on the designated dumping grounds, but at no
other place."
Our Detroit District Comment on this
recommendation is: The Corps has a continuing program
of improving garbage and trash disposal facilities
aboard its hopper dredges. On 12 February 1965, the
North Central Division Engineer confirmed previous
instructions that all districts responsible for operation
of Corps-owned vessels would observe the following
instructions;
a. Dispose of trash by means of incineration
or accumulation and disposal ashore.
b. Dispose of garbage by grinding and passing
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Colonel Bruce 915
through an approved sewage disposal system, incinera-
tion, or collection and disposal ashore.
The Public Health Service report recognized
that another of the hopper dredges, also operating in the
Detroit River in October, 1963, had installed an
improved system of trash and garbage disposal aboard.
Their observations were:
"a. Trash is incinerated on board.
"b. The garbage is macerated in a garbage
grinder located in the ship's galley prior to disposal
into th@ Detroit River.
"c. Material that will not go through the
garbage grinder and cannot be Incinerated, such as
tin cans and bottles, is disposed of by hand carried
by the cook's mate to the diked area inside the Grassy
Island dumping grounds."
Similar trash and garbage disposal equipment
is planned for other hopper dredges, but some delay has
been Justified by doubts concerning suitability of
equipment available. Funds are programmed for the fiscal
year 1966 to Install trash and garbage disposal equipment
on other dredges.
The second ggPHS Recommendation was: "2.
Install aboard ship suitable treatment units to
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Colonel Bruce 916
adequately dispose of all sanitary wastes including
trash, garbage and human excreta."
The observation on which this has been
based has been covered in part, at least, in the
presentation of the preceding observation.
In addition, and quoting from the report:
"There were no sanitary facilities aboard the dredge."
This was based on observation on October, 1963* Dredge
Lyraan, also applied to Dredge Hains "except for the
common marine toilet, there was no treatment of waste
or chlorination."
Detroit District Comment: The observation
describes a practice which has been common on Great
Lakes vessels of all sizes and types. The Corps of
Engineers concurs that improvement is desirable, and
that it is reasonable to expect Federal agencies to lead
the way. The North Central Division of the Corps of
Engineers, our next higher headquarters, has programmed
funds for the fiscal year 1966 for the design and
installation of sewage disposal systems on all Items of
floating plant where flush toilets are used.
The third USPHS Recommendation: "3- Closer
control be exercised to minimize the loss of dredge
material from the hoppers while proceeding to the
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Colonel Bruce 917
dumping grounds."
The USPHS Observation on which this was based
is: While traveling down the Detroit River (Oct. 1963
Dredge Hains), a trail of turbid water was noted behind
the ship. No reasonable explanation was given of why
this occurred except to say that it could not be helped.
Our Detroit District Comment is that:
Reasonable efforts are always made to avoid loss
enroute to the disposal ground of any material carried
by the dredge. The probable source of the turbidity
reported is loss via the overflow ports of small portions
of the very fluid material in the bins which may occur
in response to any slight pitch or roll of the vessel.
This may produce some discoloration, but should be of
minor consequence, since only suspended particles would
be lost. Increased efforts are being made during the
current dredging season to verify the source of any
turbidity observed, and to take appropriate corrective
measures.
The fourth USPHS Recommendation: "4. A
vigorous attempt be made by the Corps of Engineers
to reduce the amount of dredging with action leading
to reduction of discharge of settleable material by
increasing the charges to polluters for removing the
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Colonel Bruce 918
material commensurate with the damages to water uses
incurred. It Is believed that It was not the Intent of
Congress that such dredging operations should provide
a method of disposal of solid material deposited by
individuals or corporations in navigable streams. It
is desirable not only that dredged channels be maintained,
but that every means possible be taken to keep the cost
of such maintenance to a minimum."
USFHS Observation; We found no specific
observation on which the recommendation is based, but
this recommendation does recognize that some wastes
from industrial plants are discharged into authorized
Federal navigation channels, and that such wastes may
later be removed by dredging.
Our Detroit District Comment related to that
recommendation is: The geographic scope of this
recommendation is much broader than the area for which
the Detroit District is responsible. To my knowledge,
the Corps has vigorously enforced this statute, which
is also provided under 33 407.
In the Detroit District, industries concerned
have been cooperative, and we have experienced few problems
in collecting for Increased dredging costs which result
from removal of industrial wastes from navigation channels.
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Colonel Bruce
Some districts have encountered opposition.
In the so-called "flue dust cases" at Chicago in the late
1950s, litigation was Instigated by the Corps of
Engineers, in cooperation with the Department of
Justice. The litigation continued for several years in
Federal courts.
Steel companies challenged the right of the
Government to make any collection for increased dredging
costs under this statute. The Government was successful
in the lower Federal Court, was reversed by the Court of
Appeals, and finally won the right to demand collection
in the United States Supreme Court. Those cases held,
however that recovery of the damages by the Government
would be strictly limited to instances where there was
proof of increased costs of dredging due to industrial
solids. Where such proof can be clearly established,
appropriate charges are made.
The Public Health Service report "agrees
that, in general, the present maintenance dredging opera-
tion procedure on the Rouge and Raisin Rivers constitutes
an acceptable means of disposing of dredge material."
I thank the Public Health Service for this
recognition of acceptable procedure. Too often such
reports recognize the errors and faults and fail to
recognize those things which are done well or in an
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920
Colonel Bruce
acceptable manner. I assure them, and you, that the
Corps of Engineers desires to equip its plant and to
conduct its operations in a manner which will help to
improve the quality of our water resources.
Thank you for this opportunity to comment
on the observations and recommendations contained in the
USPHS report.
33 U.S.C. 407 - DEPOSIT OF REFUSE IN NAVIGABLE WATERS
GENERALLY (Section 13 of the River and Harbor Act
approved 3 March 1899, as amended )
It shall not be lawful to throw, discharge,
or deposit, or cause, suffer, or procure to be thrown,
discharged or deposited either from out of any ship,
barge, or other floating craft of any kind, or from the shore,
wharf, manufacturing establishment, or mill of any kind,
any refuse matter of any kind of description whatever
other than that flowing from streets and sewers and passing
therefrom in a liquid state, into any navigable water of
the United States, or into any tributary of any navi-
gable water from which the same shall float or be washed
into such navigable water; and it shall not be lawful
to deposit, or cause, suffer , or procure to be deposited
material of any kind in any place on the bank of any
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Colonel Bruce 921
navigable water, or on the bank of any tributary of
any navigable water, where the same shall be liable
to be washed Into such navigable water, either by or-
dinary or high tides, or by storms or floods, or other-
wise, whereby navigation shall or may be Impeded or
obstructed: Provided, That nothing herein contained
shall extend to, apply to, or prohibit the operations
in connection with the Improvement of navigable waters
or construction of public works, considered necessary
and proper by the United States officers supervising
such Improvement or public* work: And provided further,
That the Secretary of the Army whenever, in the Judgment
of the Chief of Engineers, Anchorage and navigation
will not be injured thereby, may permit the deposit of
any material above mentioned in navigable waters,
tiLthin limits to be defined and under conditions to be
prescribed by him, provided application is made to him
prior to depositing such material; and whenever any permit
is so granted the conditions thereof shall be strictly
complied with; and any violation thereof shall be unlawful,
Note: Oil discharged from vessel into navigable water of
the United States held "refuse matter" within above
statute and hence vessel committing such offense was
liable for penalty provided by statute. (L. A. Marced.
Circuit Court Appeals, Washington, 84 Fed. 2nd 444.)
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922
Col. E. C. Bruce
MR. STEIN: Thank you very much, Colonel.
Axe there any comments or questions?
MR. POSTON: I have one observation here.
On Page 5, where you were talking about
dredging material and hauling it from navigational chan-
nels, this appears to me to be kind of a permit to a
polluter or a discharger of waste to discharge to a water
course, and, for a fee, they can have this waste trans-
ferred to other locations in the waterways, and, in the
case of organic materials, certainly to pollute other
sections of our water.
I think that the Conferees here should con-
sider recommendations that would require organic mater-
ials to be either put in the land surface or be in an
enclosed dike area, where they would not interfere with
water use by some sediment or otherwise.
How would this affect the Corps of Engineers
operation?
COLONEL BRUCE: Off the cuff, I would think
it would have relatively little effect on us, although
it could have a slight advantage to the degree that it
reduced our maintenance requirements.
I feel sure that we would have no authority
to require such actions under the statutes which we
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923
Col. E. C. Bruce
enforce.
MR. POSTON: I think one other point I had
was on Page 4. I presumed, but I didn't want to take it
for granted, that where you said that the design installa-
tions included disposal systems in all your equipment,
that meant that you would provide an accepted treatment
device? When you said "included disposal systems," that
meant it would include an acceptable treatment device?
COLONEL BRUCE: Yes, sir, it does include
treatment.
MR. POSTON: That is all 1 have.
MR. STEIN: Thank you.
Are there any further comments?
MR. OEMING: No.
MR. STEIN: I would like to point out, Mr.
Poston, that the Corps of Engineers, as you know, has
always been a very cooperative agency with us in pollu-
tion control. Since we have the question here of the
discharge of wastes into any public waters or navigable
waters, the Corps' mission is to maintain these waters
for navigation, and once the waste gets in there and
interferes with navigation and they have to take it away,
they do.
I think they have made a real effort to
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924
Col. E. C. Bruce
protect the interests of the United States in these cases
that he talks about, at the incurrence of an additional
cost.
But 1 do think, Colonel, that we also know
of this problem of the discharge of waste that the Corps
picks up and moves somewhere else, which is getting in-
creased attention from the Congress. It is just not
related to this action here, but we have, within the past
few days, been getting numerous inquiries from the Con-
gress about the appropriateness of having the Corps pick
up the discharge of waste and dump it somewhere else,
and I suspect there may be some legislative action on
that.
MR. POSTON: Mr. Chairman, I would like to
make it clear that we have always gotten along very well
with the Corps of Engineers. We have a very friendly
relationship with them, and we have found them very
cooperative.
MR. STEIN: I hope so, because we and the
Corps go before the same committees of Congress, and we
never want to get crossed up.
However, there is one more point to be made
on the discharge of wastes from vessels. Mr. Harlow
showed us a picture yesterday of that waste coming out
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925
Col. E. C. Bruce
of the vessel,
I realize that this very well may be minor
and that you could take corrective action, but there was
one sentence in there that it should be of minor conse-
quence since only suspended solids would be lost.
I do think, if I read this report correctly,
that the investigators have been concerned with suspended
material as well as settleable material.
For example, in their recommendations, their
first recommendation talks about effluent not to exceed,
and this goes in general for the whole area, a suspended
solids concentration of 35 mg/1, and a settleable solids
concentration of 5 mg/1, so 1 do think that in specific
cases, just theoretically, we are interested in the dis-
posal of suspended solids as well as settleable solidse
This is not to say that what was coming out
of that boat may just not be a minor problem — I don't
know -- or that it can't be corrected, but just by virtue
of it being suspended solids, we would not automatically
consider it no problem.
COLONEL BRUCE: I think we are in agreement.
MR. STEIN: Yes.
COLONEL BRUCE: I didn't mean to imply other-
wise. Compared to other material being carried by the
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926
Col. E. C. Bruce
dredge, it is of lesser consequence.
This does not mean that it is not significant
and that we will not take reasonable efforts to improve
this.
MR. STEIN: Thank you, Colonel.
COLONEL BRUCE: Yes, 3ir. Thank you.
MR. STEIN: Are there any further questions?
MR. POSTON: No.
MR. STEIN: Thank you, Colonel.
Mr. Poston?
MR. POSTON: The U. S. Navy is represented
here by Lieutenant Maurice S. Power, and he would like to
make a statement at this time.
Lieutenant Power.
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927
Lieut. M. S. Power
STATEMENT OF LIEUTENANT MAURICE
S. POWER, ASSISTANT PUBLIC WORKS
OFFICER, U. S. NAVAL AIR STATION,
GROSSE ILE, MICHIGAN
LIEUT. POWER: I am Lieutenant Power from
the Naval Air Station in Grosse lie, where I am Assistant
Public Works Officer.
I would like to make the following state-
ment:
In the April 1965 FINDINGS of the U. S.
Public Health Service, recommendations are made for
improved Waste Disposal Practices at the Naval Air
Station, Grosse lie, Michigan.
The Naval Air Station concurs with the
recommendations and is cooperating to the maximum ex-
tent in implementing the recommendations.
Pages 120 and 121 of the FINDINGS contain
nine (9) recommendations for improvements to the Naval
Air Station's Sewage Treatment Practices. Recommenda-
tions 1 through 6 therein deal with improved plant
operating procedures and have been implemented. Recom-
mendation 7 requires continuous year round chlorination
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928
Lieut* M. S. Power
of the plant effluent. This recommendation has been
implemented* Recommendation 8 requires installation
of on Aerobic Digestion Sewage treatment unit at the
station boat dock and has been implemented* Recommenda-
tion 9, for either (1) connection to the Grosse lie
municipal collection system or C2) enlargement of the
station sewage plant to include secondary treatment,
is proposed by the Public Health Service in the event
that Naval Air Station, Grosse lie does not close as
scheduled on 1 September 1967.
Current plans still call for the closing
of the station by September 1967, so this recommendation
will probably not be implemented.
Pages 123 and 124 of the FINDINGS contain
a recommendation that the Naval Air Station install an
oil separator on its storm water outfall line to reduce
the concentration of oil from aircraft washing operation
reaching Frenchman's Creek. The Naval Air Station is
now working with the Public Health Service to determine
the degree of chemical treatment required. It is ex-
pected that this determination will be made during June.
If so, the station will request funds for an oil sepa-
rator facility during June 1965.
The Naval Air Station, Grosse lie wishes to
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929
Lieut. M. S. Power
thank the Public Health Service for the cooperation and
technical assistance they have given in helping to
implement the recommendations.
Thank you.
MR. STEIN: Thank you very much, Lieutenant.
Are there any comments or questions?
MR. POSTON: I have one, if I may.
MR. STEIN: Surely.
MRo POSTON: I think you can see that our
crew at Grosse lie, who has been used by the Navy, has
done a good job of selling on the Navy on their feeling
for water pollution abatement.
I think we should give the Navy our thanks
for the assistance that they have given in many ways,
such as taking pictures, assistance with our boats,
storage of equipment, and provision of laboratory fa-
cilities and office space.
LIEUT. POWER: Thank you.
MR. POSTON: Thank you.
MR. STEIN: Lieutenant, I am not directing
this at you, but saying this for the record and to com-
mend you, because I am sure that this is a problem that
you are probably not directly concerned with in your
capacity there, but the vexing problem of phasing out
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930
Lieut. M. S. Power
of a military installation and deferring the recommenda-
tion for treatment is always a hard one.
If the installation phases out and closes,
obviously you don't want the treatment or you shouldn't
spend the taxpayer's money for it.
However, experience has shown that announced
plans that military installations are phasing out don't
always occur in time. Some of these installations, to
quote another military man, "just seem to fade away."
It takes years to phase them out.
I think with that kind of recommendation
on our Federal installation program, we are going to
have to watch very closely —- and I think this is s
quarters job and not one for you, the notion of
phasing out, but I think that if the plans are
of course the recommendations of our people will still
hold?
LIEUT. POWER: Yes, it will.
MR. STEIN: Thank you.
LIEUT. POWER: Thank you.
MR. STEIN: At this time I would like to
announce what our program is going to be.
We are going to have clarifying questions
and probing questions$ I suspect, by the Conferees to
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931
Murray Stein
the people who delivered the report for the Federal
Government, Mr. Barlow and Mr. Vaughan.
At the conclusion of that, the Michigan
Water Resources Commission will present its report,
and we will have a statement by the Michigan Department
of Conservation, and other State agencies of Michigan.
It is expected that the questioning of
the Federal investigators and the presentation of the
reports by the State of Michigan will take most of the
day.
Tomorrow we will resume again, we expect,
with invitees from the State of Michigan.
With that, 1 would like to ask both Mr.
Vaughan and Mr. Harlow to get over to the rostrum, and
we will open the questioning.
For the purpose of the record, we have Mr.
Richard Vaughan and Mr. George Harlow, who presented
the report for the Federal Government yesterday at the
rostrum.
Mr. Oeming, do you have any questions?
MR. OEMING: Yes, Mr. Chairman and Mr.
Poston. I have a series of questions here that have
been developed --
MR. STEIN: By the way, this is Mr. Nicholas
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932
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
Olds, who is a long time colleague, and a member of the
Attorney General's staff of Michigan.
I think one of the points that might have
been mentioned when the Corps of Engineers representative
was here, and I think Mr. Olds has consulted with him, is
that the largest cost of this dredging comes from natural
sedimentation,. This is something which should be recog-
nized to put this into perspective.
When you see the Corps of Engineers out
here dredging, most of the time the material they are
picking up is not material that has been put there by
industrial or municipal operations, but has just run
off through siltation, and so forth. I think this is
correct, and the record should show that.
Thank you, Mr. Olds.
Mr. Oeming?
MR. OEMING: Mr. Chairman, to resume, I am
prepared to ask a series of questions that have been
developed after close study of the Federal report, both
the Findings section and the Summary and Conclusions
section, by members of the Water Resources Commission
staff and the State Department of Health.
These questions are presented here for the
purpose of aiding the State agencies, the Water Resources
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933
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
Conmission and other member agencies, in any action that
may be undertaken as the result of the submission of
this report and the conclusion of this conference.
It appears necessary to us to obtain some
clarification here of some items that I am sure the men
who prepared this report are in a position to answer
and to clarify for the record.
MR. STEIN: Mr. Oeming, in addition to these
two men up here, as you know, we have in the audience
several specialists, biologists, bacteriologists, chem-
ists, and so forth. I want these two men to feel free,
if there is any question, to call on your experts and
have those men come up, so the Conferees may have the
benefit of the advice and the comments of the specialists
in the area.
MR. HARLOW: Would you want us to call on
these men?
MR. STEIN: Just on an ad hoc basis, as you
feel it is necessary, but you call on them.
In other words, if you feel that a question
may better be answered by one of the experts in the
audience, call the expert up, and I think we can save
time that way. Let's not try to answer it if you need
their help.
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934
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
MR. POSTON: I might add, Mr. Chairman,
that these experts that Mr. Stein speaks of were con-
sultants to the Project and are familiar with the ways
that the studies were carried out, and did consult with
Mr. Vaughan and Mr. Harlow pertaining to the reporto
MR» OEMING: I believe, Mr. Chairman, that
most of the questions that I have are well within the
purview of these two gentlemen, and I donrt see much
need to go beyond, except perhaps in one specific area.
With this introduction, Mr. Chairman, and
I hope I have made it clear, the purpose of this ques-
tioning here is to provide aid to the State agencies
and to assist them in whatever follow-up action comes
out of this conference.
I want to address myself, first of all, to
the Summary, Conclusions and Recommendations section of
the report.
The report states, on Page 1, that "declin-
ing levels of dissolved oxygen in the lower Detroit
River as it enters Lake Erie are approaching the danger
point indicating trouble in the future unless appropriate
remedial action is taken."
Would you tell me what this means, specific-
ally with reference to the present levels? Are the
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935
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
present levels satisfactory?
Perhaps you had better take that first,
rather than be asked a multiple question here, so that
we will not get confused.
MR. VAUGHAN: 1 wouldn't say personally that
1 am not satisfied with them, but I will say that we have
found that they did not interfere with water uses at the
present time.
MR. OEMING: In other words, may I ask this
question then as a follow-up?
Isn't it true that in most cases, in pollu-
tion investigations, where multiple use is contemplated,
including a waste disposal use, and isn't it a commonly
accepted criteria or objective to maintain about 5 ppm
as the level of oxygen in these streams?
MR. VAUGHAN: Well, if you want me to answer
that from my own experience and desires, I don't know
what the common practice is this way. I know we wanted
to evolve a plan that would give maximum protection in
the future, and counteract the problem we feel is im-
pending and now poses an immediate future threat to the
water resource of the area.
We don't like to compute the maximum amount
a river or a stream can be polluted. We would rather
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936
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
think of it in how good we can get it.
MR. OEMING: You are not then dealing in
any specific value of oxygen that ought to be an objec-
tive in these waters?
MR. VAUGHAN: We think if it was below 5,
we would be more concerned. That is true.
MR. OEMING: Perhaps you think you have
answered this, but, as I understand it, there is no
interference now with lawful uses of the river at 5 ppm
of dissolved oxygen?
MR. VAUGHAN: That is correct, yes.
MR. OEMING: Isn't this about the figure
that you found as the minimum in the river?
MR. VAUGHAN: That is correct.
MR. OEMING: At the mouth of the river?
MR. VAUGHAN: That is correct.
MR. OEMING: In what way then is trouble
indicated in the future?
MR. VAUGHAN: Well, we feel right now we
are right at the level where any future industrial or
population growth in Detroit will cause future decline
of oxygen levels in the Detroit River and the Michigan
waters of Lake Erie, unless additional treatment or
appropriate action is taken.
-------
937
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
MR. OEMING: So you are concerned with what
might happen in the future, more than you are with what
is happening at the present time with respect to oxygen?
MR. VAUGHAN: In this case, yes. We do
consider it right now a threat to the future usage of
the water.
MR. STEIN: I know Mr. Poston wants to make
a comment.
The only thing I would like to do now is
to call attention to the Federal law, which may be
slightly different from the Michigan law. Under the
Federal law, any pollution which endangers -- and this
is the key word -- which endangers health or welfare
of persons, is subject to abatement.
We have been over this many times in various
cases. "Endangers" means to put in peril, to create a
hazard.
I just ask you to look at that in the way
that the Federal investigators, operating under the
Federal law, would consider their obligations and duties.
Mr. Poston?
MR. POSTON: I have nothing.
MR. OEMING: I think the purpose of this
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938
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
question, Mr. Stein, is not to examine into the Federal
law, but to differentiate between what is the problem
today and what may be a problem in the future.
MR. STEIN: Again, because I do think this
is a key point on this issue, I want to give you this
in this sense. As you know, my mind is completely open
on this operation, but under the Federal law, as I under-
stand it, when health or welfare is endangered or put
in peril, we consider that the problem today.
I think this is a familiar concept in law,
where we have an assault and battery. If you were sit-
ting here on the stage with a big weight hanging by a
thread over your head, and it hadn't fallen down and
crushed your skull, I would think we have a problem
right now for your safety.
MR. OEMING: Let me see if there is some-
thing hanging over me now. That's a pretty apt
simile, I would say.
(Laughter.)
MR. STEIN: I have heard of people looking
for things under the bed, but this is the first time
I knew that they looked in the wings of a theater.
MR. OEMING: Could we go on?
MR. STEIN: Yes.
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939
R, D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
MR. OEHING: All right. In the first para-
graph of Page 2, the statement is made that in order to
maintain navigation, extensive annual dredging is re-
quired at the junction of the Detroit and Rouge Rivers
and at the mouths of the Detroit and Raisin Rivers to
remove deposits of suspended solids in large part originat-
ing in municipal and industrial waste discharges.
Do you find that?
MR. VAUGHAN: Yes.
MR. QEMING: The six county report on sew-
age disposal problems on Page 21 quotes & letter from
the Corps of Engineers dated July 24, 1964, and the
quotation is: '"The Detroit River from Zug Island to
the lower end of Bois Blanc Island has a history of
little or no deposition in either the through channel
(Fighting Island) or the Trenton Channel,"
It is also stated that dredging occurs
annually in the lower Livingston Channel and the East
Outer Channel, the dredged material consisting of silty
sand.
The question here refers specifically to
the mouth of the Detroit River and the material that
you have found, and the difference here between what you
have found and what the Corps of Engineers states.
-------
940
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
Would you comment on this, please?
MR, HARLOW: If I can, Mr. Oeming.
Our report shows, if you will refer to the
graph opposite Page 220 —
MR. STEIN: For the record, where you speak
of those higher numbers, you are speaking of the Find-
ings, the second volume of the report?
MR. HARLOW: Yes.
MR. STEIN: Would you refer to that for
the purposes of the record, and differentiate between
the two volumes?
MR. HARLOW: I am referring to the Findings,
the larger volume of the Public Health Service report.
In the area shown by the dark shaded color,
the portion of that that is in the East Outer Channel,
our results indicate that this material is of a degraded
condition and is not what I would define as a silty sand.
By "a degraded condition," I might point
out that our observation showed that in this area of
the dark shaded color, the bottom deposits were of or-
ganic or of other material having a black oily appear-
ance, and an odor of oil or sewerage.
MR. OEMING: Was this in the Livingston
Channel?
-------
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
MR. HARLOW: This was in the East Outer
Channel and not in the Livingston Channel,
I think in the water use inventory, our
report speaks that in the Livingston Channel, this is
primarily dike material that falls into the channel,
and this type of material has to be removed by the
Corps of Engineers.
MR. OEMING: Isn't this in the Canadian
waters?
MR. HARLOW: The Livingston Channel is.
The East Outer Channel is in American waters.
MR, OEMING: Is this subject to discharges
from Canada?
MR. HARLOW: Yes.
MRo OEMING: As well as the United States?
MR. HARLOW: As well as the United States.
MR. OEMING: Well, as a matter of fact,
there is a difference then in the manner in which you
have expressed yourself and the manner in which the
Corps of Engineers expresses itself, in its interpreta-
tion of what it finds; isn't that so?
MR. HARLOW: That is true, but I would
point out here, however, that the Corps of Engineers
probably -- I do not know -- does not make a chemical
-------
942
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
analysis of this material that they remove.
We did observe it from a chemical nature,
and made these conclusions. I might point out also that
the material that is removed by the Corps of Engineers
is partly due to the material already in suspension com-
ing down the river, and not associated altogether with
waste material.
Some of the material that is removed, how-
ever, we showed to be waste material.
MR. OEMING: Do you have any questions?
MR. STEIN: No. I am a little confused.
Were you and the Corps of Engineers re-
ferring to exactly the same area and exactly the same
material?
The answer is what? Is it the same area?
MR. HARLOW: The Corps of Engineers report,
if I am aware of what they are referring to, just men-
tioned, I think, the lower Livingston Channel and the
East Outer Channel, which is a large stretch of water-
way.
MR. STEIN: Where was your material taken?
MR. HARLOW: Our material was taken very
close to the Detroit River Light in the East Outer
Channel.
-------
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
MR. STEIN: In other words, you very well --
I am just asking this for clarification. I am not sure
that you are referring to exactly the same area where
you took the material.
MR. HARLOW: You could never be sure that
the Corps of Engineers is referring to the exact area.
MR. STEIN: Were you in a slightly differ-
ent area?
MR. HARLOW: In my opinion, it would be
the same area, as far as the East Outer Channel is con-
cerned.
MR. STEIN: In your opinion, were you taking
the same kind of material as the Corps, or was your
material a little bit different?
MR. HARLOW: No; I would imagine it was
the same material.
MR. STEIN: What do you attribute the dif-
ference to, your method of analysis and the Corps'
observation, or what?
MR. HARLOW: I really can't say on what
basis the Corps of Engineers make their analysis.
MR. STEIN: On which basis did you make
yours?
MR. HARLOW: I have heard this mentioned
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944
R. D. Vaughan and G. i. Harlow
before, that the Corps of Engineers quite often classi-
fies this material as "silty sand,11 and this even applies
to the material they obtained from the Rouge River,
which is highly organic and of a polluted nature. They
called it "silty sand sludge."
MR. STEIN: On what basis did you make yours?
MR. HARLOW: On chemical observation, chemi-
cal analysis, odor, appearance of organisms, indicating
a degraded condition, and methods of this sort.
MR. OEMING: May I go on?
MR. STEIN: Yes, sir.
MR. OEMING: On Page 2, Paragraph 5, the
report states that concentrations of chlorides, metals
toxic to fish life in minute concentrations and suspended
solids in the lake portend future problems in various
water uses.
In what way are future water uses threatened
if concentrations remain at present levels?
I think, Mr. Chairman, this asks the ques-
tion in a little better way so you don't get involved.
We want to know what it is now.
MR. VAUGHAN: If there is no growth or
industrial development, the answer is in no way it does,
but we are assuming that there would be.
-------
945
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
This is a problem that is a little farther
off in the future, I might add, than the dissolved
oxygen problem.
MR. OEMING: All right.
On Page 2 of the Summary, it is stated that
a bacteriological standard frequently accepted as safe
for recreation is 1,000 per 100 ml, and that the recom-
mendations in this report are based on that standard.
A similar statement is found in the Findings.
On what factual basis is such a standard
predicated, and specifically to what classes of aquatic
recreational activities should such a standard apply,
in your judgment?
There are two questions here. What is the
basis for the 1,000 index, first of all?
MR. HARLOW: Mr. Oeming, this basis, I
think — it is a generally accepted figure, commonly
in use throughout the country, and we used this figure
by searching through the literature, and came up with
a general consensus that this was the figure that has
been set and has been applied in many cases, and used
to a great effectiveness for water recreational uses,
water contact sports.
MR. STEIN: I just have one comment on
-------
946
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
this, unless you want to call one of your bacteriolo-
gists for the basis figure, but several weeks ago we had
finished a conference in Chicago on the lower end of
Lake Michigan, and both the State agencies representing
Indiana and Illinois, Mr. Gladstone and Mr. Poole, and
the Federal Government agreed on this 1,000 figure for
water contact at bathing beaches.
I just give you this as what seems to be
accepted by the scientists.
MR. OEMING: Of course, the same question
would apply there. What basis did they have?
MR. STEIN: This doesn't answer the basis.
MR. OEMING: No0
MR. STEIN: Do you feel you —
MR. OEMING: He has answered the question,
as far as I am concerned.
MR. STEIN: All right. Do you want him to
call the bacteriologist?
MR. OEMING: No.
MR. STEIN: All right.
MR. OEMING: In the Findings, you covered
quite a little on the effect on the river of combined
sewer overflows, and you also did quite a little work
on the Allen Creek Drain in Ann Arbor, which is a
-------
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
separated system, in which storm water is separated from
the sewage.
My question is, considering the bacterio-
logical quality of surface waters collected by the Allen
Creek Drain in Ann Arbor as documented in the Findings
(Pages 195-197), and the nature of the Detroit Metro-
politan area watershed, what concentration of coliform
organisms might be expected from these sources alone in
the discharge from storm sewers systems and directly
from land runoff areas to the Detroit River?
MR. VAUGHAN: You are presupposing, just
for a minute, that they had separate storm sewers in
Detroit right now?
MR. OEMING: Either that, or else that you
would stop the overflows, and you had just surface run-
off from the streets, and so forth, and land area.
MR. VAUGHAN: And also, for this discussion,
would you say that the other treatment recommendations
were carried out?
MR. OEMING: Yes.
MR. VAUGHAN: Okay?
MR. OEMING: Yes.
MR. VAUGHAN: I would say that following
heavy rainfall, it would still be likely that there would
-------
948
R. D, Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
be coliform densities in the river that are above 1,000.
They would be far less, however, than they are today,
but without additional treatment they would still, in
all likelihood, be above 1,000.
MR. OEMING: Putting it another way, Mr.
Vaughan, if you were to try to meet the 1,000 index
at all times, 100 percent of the times, you would have
to treat surface runoff as well as combined sewer over-
flows, wouldn't you?
MR. VAUGHAN: I would say that you have
to treat either combined waste, if you had it, or if
you separated you would probably still have to treat it
in this case, because of the magnitude of it.
MR. OEMING: During periods of prolonged
and extensive runoff in the Raisin River, Stony Creek,
Swan Creek and Sandy Creek drainage basins, what water
quality, bacteriologically, can be expected dependably
at Sterling State Park, provided that all recommenda-
tions of the report are met?
MR. VAUGHAN: In this case, it would be
somewhat similar. There would probably be coliform
concentrations in this land drainage that would affect
water quality at Sterling State Park if all these
recommendations were taken out.
-------
949
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
First of all, the counts would not be as
high, and the public health significance of this would
be much lower.
MR. STEIN: Would you remember to talk
into the mike?
MR. VAUGHAN: Was that heard?
MR. STEIN: Yes. Go on from there.
MR. VAUGHAN: I'm sorry. Just to reiter-
ate, the counts after a heavy rain could be high in
coliform concentration. We feel that the public health
significance of this would be far less, because of the
origin of the coliform organisms.
MR. OEMING: I don't want to pursue this
too long here, but are we dealing with an absolute
figure of 1,000, or are we dealing with some variation
that would accommodate these increases, let us say from
surface runoffs, that would not be considered as inter-
fering with the recreational use of the beaches on
Lake Erie?
MR. VAUGHAN: I think in making such a
judgment as this, you should take into consideration
not only the total coliform concentration, but also
the fecal coliform and fecal streptococci, which we
believe in those circumstances would be far less, and
-------
950
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
also the origin or the known origin of the wastes.
All these things should be taken into
consideration, and that is what I based my judgment
on, that in the example that you gave, although there
would be times when the total coliform might go above
1,000 -- no one can tell for sure — it is of far less
public health significance than the current situation.,
MR.OEMING: Well, doesn't this suggest to
you that the 1,000 coliform index should be enlarged
upon and include fecal coliforms and fecal strepto-
cocci then, if you are going to exercise judgment here,
and depending upon your sanitary survey, if this coli-
form increases because of surface drainage only, and
now you have brought in another factor, haven't you?
MR. VAUGHAN: Yes.
MR. OEMING: So wouldn't your objective
need to include now fecal streptococci and fecal coli?
MR. VAUGHAN: I don't know if it should
or not. We, of course, use it so that we have the best
information upon which to base our judgment. Whether
or not everyone should use this, I am not at liberty
to say, or whether this should be incorporated into
some sort of regulatory order or not, I don't know.
I can say that we have found it very useful
-------
951
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
in making an engineering or public health judgment.
MR. OEMING: All right.
MR. STEIN: Let me see if I can understand
it. 1 think that has been very useful.
As 1 understand it, what Mr. Vaughan and
Mr. Harlow have done is used this 1,000 to make recom-
mendations. However, they have not proposed this as
a standard to be met inexorably and absolutely at all
times.
As 1 see it, on the next page they have
their bacteriological density standard of 5,000 per
100 ml. In other words, in developing their recom-
mendations they used this as a guide, but if one day
in a year, or two days, or whatever the point is, it
goes over 1,000 at a time, they believe that even with
that, the health and welfare of the people in the area
using water contact sports will be protected as far
as quality of the water is concerned.
Is this the way you understand what they
have said?
MR. OEMING: Well, I think in part, Mr.
Stein. I think what they are saying to me is that
this becomes a matter of a sanitary survey. You are
not guided entirely there by the 1,000 index. You are
-------
952
R. D. Vaughan and G. L0 Harlow
guided by other factors in which you exercise judgment?
MR. VAUGHAN: We certainly do.
MR. OEMING: Yes.
MR. STEIN: I think they were guided in
their recommendations by a 1,000 index, which they
were working on. I don't think they proposed 1,000
as a test of dipping something in the water anywhere
up and down the Detroit River or Lake Erie, and if
you find something coming out significantly over 1,000,
like 1,500, automatically you are going to throw up
your hands in horror and say that all the treatment
facilities were not sufficient.
MR. OEMING: I'm glad to hear you say
that. I'm glad to hear you say that.
MR. STEIN: All right.
MR. OEMING: The Summary recommends a
degree of treatment be provided capable of producing
specified effluent characteristics, notably not to
exceed 35 mg/1 of suspended solids, 20 mg/1 of BOD,
and 15 mg/1 of oil for the Detroit and Wayne County
sewage treatment plants, and I guess some others,
gross algal plants, and now the Trenton and Riverview
plants would come under this, wouldn't they? Is that
your contention?
-------
953
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
MR. VAUGHAN: Yes.
MR. OEMING: Concentrations of other speci-
fic constituents are listed for certain waste sources.
At this point, I would like to ask you
just what you mean by the recommendation that secondary
treatment be provided? What does this mean to you?
Secondary treatment can mean lots of things,
and I just wondered what you have in mind to attain
these objectives.
MR. HARLOW: I think most sanitary engin-
eering practice in these days is based on the fact
that we consider secondary treatment as biological
treatment, and to remove a certain level of biochemical
oxygen demand. The figure has been set with various
treatment devices between something like 75 and 90 or
95 percent BOD removal, but it is based on biological
treatment.
MR. OEMING: Now I am asking for your
judgment here as to what particular type of biological
treatment you would think would be feasible practice
in this area, in this particular situation where the
flows may range from 75 million gallons a day up to
3500 million gallons per d$y.
MR. HARLOW: Well, in my judgment, based
-------
954
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
on the situation here in the Detroit area, and the
problems that have been encountered in regard to the
pollution in the lower Detroit River and the Michigan
waters of Lake Erie, and based on the facilities that
the City of Detroit would have and what needs to be
done, I would, in my judgment, recommend that they
install activating sludge treatment.
MR. OEMING: This is what we are talking
about then specifically?
MR. HARLOW: Yes.
MR. OEMING: Some type of activated sludge
treatment?
MR. HARLOW: In the desired goals, I think
this would probably be the best process.
MR. POSTON: You didn't make a specific
study on this matter, did you?
MR. HARLOW: No, we did not recommend the
type of secondary treatment.
MR. STEIN: I understand what you mean,
Mr. Oeming, but I think this may be a crucial point.
Let's see if I understand the report, so that we can
move ahead with this.
As I get this, what we are largely in-
terested in in any pollution control operation is the
-------
955
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
quality of the waters that are going to be used. You
have from 1 to 7, talking about suspended solids,
settleable solids, ammonia concentrations, phenol,
oil, biochemical oxygen demand, and bacterial densi-
ties.
What you have indicated is that if this
is achieved, then you feel that the water quality will
be such that we will have a maximum number of water
uses; isn't that correct?
MR. HARLOW: Not necessarily though, be-
cause in the ones you listed there, I don't believe
you mentioned the phosphate problem.
MR. STEIN: You didn't say that.
MR. HARLOW: No specific recommendation
for that was made.
MR. STEIN: All right. It wasn't in your
list anyway, but that is a real good point and I am
glad you brought it up, because it should be included,
plus a control of phosphates.
If I understand it, you believe that this
type of control would give an adequate water quality.
This is one set of recommendations.
Now your judgment here as an engineer is
that secondary treatment, using activated sludge, would
-------
956
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
be probably the best way of achieving that?
MR* HARLOW: Yes.
MR. STEIN: The point is, though, if this
were achieved by secondary treatment or its equivalent,
it doesn't really make much difference to a water
pollution control official, as long as the desired
results come about; is that correct?
MR. HARLOW: As long as we are abating
pollution, any way you go about getting it, I'm for
it.
MR. STEIN: Right. All right.
MR. HARLOW: But in my judgment, I strong-
ly think that the way to do it here is with secondary
treatment.
MR. STEIN: Absolutely. I want to make
that distinction and get the recommendation, because
I think if you thought the way to do it was secondary
treatment and you didn't put that forward, you would
not be carrying out your functions as the investigator
and the expert.
But I want to make the point that, as I
see it, this breaks into two parts, one being the
recommendation of what they think the water quality
is, and the second is their judgment on how to achieve
-------
957
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
it.
MR. OEMING: Well, I get your point, Mr.
Stein. All I am asking for is their judgment, the
practicalities of using one type of secondary treat-
ment versus another.
Secondary treatment means a lot of dif-
ferent things to different people, and certainly in
recommending secondary treatment, they must have had
something in their minds here to do this job.
MR. STEIN: Are you people both in agree-
ment that you are talking in terms of secondary treat-
ment meaning activated sludge biological treatment?
MR. VAUGHAN: Yes, we are.
MR. STEIN: Does that clarify it?
MR. OEMING: Yes. Now, going back to
these specific objectives, we have cleared up this
matter of treatment now.
Are these specific effluent objectives
based on observed and known conditions in the receiv-
ing waters which can be attributed quantitatively to
each of the waste sources for which specific limita-
tions on effluent quality are recommended?
Do you want to answer that question,
and then I have some other questions?
-------
958
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
MR. VAUGHAN: Yes. In most cases, yes.
MR. OEMING: What method was used to de-
velop the specific limitations recommended?
MR. VAUGHAN: Well, they varied. There
are two general ways though.
MR. OEMING: Aside from coliforms, because
we have discussed that.
MR. VAUGHAN: Yes. In some cases we found
a certain quantitative amount above and below waste
sources. Then we equated the amount of waste con-
stituents in the outfalls, and then computed a reduc-
tion that would allow better water use. In other
cases —
MR. STEIN: I'm sorry; I think you should
try that again. Maybe Mr. Oeming understood you, but
for the record I am not sure that that is quite clear.
MR. VAUGHAN: All right. We examined,
of course, many waste constituents. There is a cer-
tain amount, a quantity, pounds of this above sources
of pollution.
We found then there were certain pounds
below this source. We examined the waste sources,
and we found there were a certain number of pounds
in the waste sources.
-------
959
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
We then computed the reduction in the
waste sources that would be required to come up with
what we felt was a maximum protection or pollution
abatement downstream.
There were some cases, however, and you
may be speaking of solids, I think, but that was for
everything but this, where we were concerned with
material that settles out, and when we found damages
due to this settled material on the bottom, we exam-
ined all the wastes — and this is 1.6 billion gallons
of waste — and found the settleable material and
the suspended solids in this, and using the concept
we think of economic feasibility of removal, we com-
puted an amount that we thought that the plants could
remove.
In this particular case, as an example,
we figured in our recommendations they could remove
about 95 percent of the settleable material, In
this case, we deviated somewhat from the other pro-
cedure of effect on the river.
MR. OEMING: I missed that. You deviated
in some respects?
MR. VAUGHAN: From the solids standpoint,
-------
960
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Earlow
yes. Our calculations were there.
MR. OEMING: I see. Well, there are two
related questions here then. Could you tell us here,
or at sometime in the future, what improvement in
water quality may be expected by the conformance with
such limitations? You have this in mind.
MR. VAUGHAN: Yes, we have it on how much
improvement in certain of the constituents.
In the case of solids, instead of how
much in the river, we figure that if our recommenda-
tions are followed, the large blanket of sludge de-
posits from this deleterious material would be greatly
reduced, and I think totally eliminated.
MR. OEMING: How about the values, the
water uses, interest and values that may be protected?
Would you expect that they would be adequately pro-
tected if these recommendations are carried out?
MR. VAIJGHAN: Yes, we would.
MR. OEMING: And there would be some
improvement or extension of use also?
MR. VAUGHAN: Yes. Yes, we do.
MR. OEMING: There is a related question
here -- you touched on it a little bit -- and this
has to do with the solids situation.
-------
961
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
You made the statement with respect to
the increase in suspended solids and settleable solids
that occurred in the Detroit River from the head to
the mouth. What is the anticipated resultant increase
from the head to the mouth if the recommendations made
in this report are carried out?
I have another related question, but will
you answer this first?
MR. VAUGHAN: I can go over it again, if
you wish. We did not make this computation because
the things that have been brought out at this meeting
already, natural silt, complicates this issue.
We did, however, make our computations
of the good that would come out of this, based upon
the reduction in the wastes themselves, after we
found that the settleable material from these wastes
were blanketing the bottom of the lower Detroit River
and Michigan Lake Erie.
MR. OEMING: The problem here that I
fear is that any calculations that we have been able
to make don't seem to tie up very well, and I am
trying to clarify this as to what basis you had for
selecting 35 mg/1 as against double this value.
MR. VAUGHAN: Yes.
-------
962
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
MR. OEMING: Because one computation you
can make, which looks very reasonable, is that you
are improving the quality of the river; that is, what
you discharge is better from a suspended solids stand-
point than what you took out.
MR. VAIJGHAN: We are not against this,
of course, but our point is that in this thing, you
have two big variables. You've got inert silt, which
has a different problem when it coats the bottom than
oil and iron material and industrial and domestic
waste sludge, and, secondly, this material, even both
the suspended and the settleable, is in the process
of changing as it goes down the river and settling
to the bottom, and the velocities in the upper part
of the river are such that a greater amount of this
would be kept in suspension than in the lower part.
Because of these complications, we felt
that it would be a better approach, after we found
the damage in the lake and in the river, marinas,
etc., to compute the maximum reduction we could get,
based on economic feasibility, and that is how the
35 comes out. We feel that the plants can meet this.
MR. OEMING: Even though you might have
the same settleable solids or suspended solids content
-------
963
R« D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
after you get all through with this, you might still
have the same suspended solids content at the mouth
of the river as you have at the head of the river.
MR. VAUGHAN: Perhaps so, but we are try-
ing to get rid of the deleterious industrial and domes-
tic wastes which are interfering with water uses on
the bottom, and this is our approach this way.
MR. OEMING: Do you have any questions?
MR. STEIN: No.
MR. OEMING: On Page 3, Paragraph 4, it
is stated that the recommendations are designed to
abate existing pollution, and also that it points
out areas where additional improvement in water qual-
ity will aid in the prevention of future problems.
We are back to the same question again.
The question arises as to which and what part of the
recommendations are necessary to abate existing pol-
lution, and what parts are made for the prevention
of future problems?
MR. HARLOW: I think to clarify that
point, -as far as the future problems are concerned,
we are considering the impending dissolved oxygen
problem and the rising level of chlorides.
From other standpoints, there is inter-
-------
R. D, Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
ference occurring now.
MR. OEMING: The exceptions are between
what now?
MR. HARLOW: Chlorides and dissolved
oxygen.
MR. OEMING: I see.
MR. VAUGHAN: I might add we are still
concerned about these two things.
MR. OEMING: On Page 7 of the Summary,
it is stated that erratic control of coliform organ-
isms noted at several Detroit River sewage treatment
plants is not considered unusual when chlorination
is practiced following primary sewage treatment.
It is not clear from the discussion in
the Findings of bacteriological control at the De-
troit, Wayne County plants how such a conclusion was
derived. The statement in the Findings was that
bacteriological control was excellent during the
surveys, and the surveys indicate that effective bac-
terial control can be accomplished.
Similar statements were made relative
to the Monroe Sewage Treatment Plant in the Lake
Erie section of the report.
How do you resolve these two?
-------
965
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
MR. VAUGHAN: I will be happy to clarify
this point.
First of all, during the two and a half
years in which we were involved in field work, we
made several surveys of the plant with the State Health
Department. These surveys lasted four days each, with
continuous sampling.
It is during those surveys that I am
talking about that bacterial control was excellent,
and it was very excellent.
During the two and a half year period,
and actually years before this, we examined the operat-
ing records of the actual plants, and found erratic
control that we mentioned.
MR. OEMING: I see. Have you any ques-
tions?
MR. STEIN: No. I have a comment though,
if you want it.
MR. OEMING: You're the Chairman.
MR. STEIN: Yes. This seems to be very
typical to me. We generally do find pretty good con-
trol when the cops are there looking, but when we
look at the records we find it a little more erratic.
As a matter of fact, I drive my automobile
-------
966
R. D, Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
the same way.
(Laughter.)
MR. OEMING: On Page 7, the last para-
graph, reference is made that "pollution endangers
the users of the domestic water supplies from the
Wyandotte intake and, at times, from the Southwest
intake of the City of Detroit."
I think you modified this yesterday, and
I want to clear this up for sure. You had in the
original report "in the event of a breakdown in the
water treatment facilities."
First of all, did you modify this in the
report?
MR. VAUGHAN: Well, we didn't read it in
the report. We thought this was pfcobably obvious.
I think there could be some misunder-
standing if your next question is going to be, "What
do you mean by a breakdown?"
MR. OEMING: You are anticipating my ques-
tion.
MR. VAUGHAN: Go ahead. I'm sorry.
We did modify this to avoid just saying
something we thought was obvious.
MR. OEMING: That is, at any time?
-------
967
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
MR. VAUGHAN: Some irregularity, or some-
thing.
MR. OEMING: Do you know from your ex-
amination of the records at these plants, at these
intakes -- I realize that the Southwest is fairly
recent.
MR. VAUGHAN: Yes.
MR. OEMING: But Wyandotte has been there
many years. Do you know of any specific breakdowns
or any case in which inadequate water was pumped out
of the system?
MR. VAUGHAN: No, I do not, and we have
looked.
MR. OEMING: Any comments?
MR. STEIN: No. Do you have any?
MR. POSTON: I have a comment.
I heard this item come up about changes
in the report, and yesterday you made comment about
changes in the report,
I would like to ask Mr. Vaughan: Were
there changes in the report yesterday as read? What
is the situation with regard to that?
MR. VAUGHAN: Well, actually the majority
of the changes -- we designed a written report, or
-------
968
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
made an oral presentation in a somewhat different
manner than it is outlined there, to what we hoped
made a more palatable presentation, one that could
be listened to by the audience a little better.
We feel, with one or two exceptions,
there really isn't any change in the report. We did
add a little bit on one paragraph, and that has been
given for the record.
MR. HARLOW: As far as the recommendations
were concerned, the recommendations were only shifted
around for ease of reading, and there was not any
change in content.
The one thing that was omitted yesterday
when I was reading, on Page 31, or the summary of
the recommendations, Mr, Vaughan thought I was going
to give it, and I thought he was going to give it.
MR. STEIN: Let me make this clear, to
be specific.
In many of the industries, Mr. Harlow,
as I understood it, omitted reading over and over
again the reduction of wastes from suspended solids
and settleable solids, but he covered that by a
blanket statement at the beginning, to apply to all
the industries, and I suspect that some of the people
-------
9.69
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
may have missed that. He did that in order to save
time.
I always have these feelings about this.
I am not sure these shortcuts do save time.
MR. OEMING: Page 8, Paragraph 7 -- do
you have it?
MR. VAUGHAN: Yes.
MR. OEMING: It is stated that phenol
concentrations in the waters and bottom muds of the
Detroit River pose a threat to fish life.
I would like to know, in what way do
phenol concentrations, in these muds and in the waters,
pose a threat to fish life?
MR. VAUGHAN: Well, it may be poorly
stated, Mr. Oeming. We meant the tainting of fish
flesh.
MR. OEMING: And not a question --
MR. VAUGHAN: Of extinction.
MR. OEMING: — of destruction or killing
of fish?
MR. VAUGHAN: That's right.
MR. HARLOW: They are not at such a level
that fish would be killed.
MR. OEMING: All right. On Page 8,
-------
970
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
Paragraph 8, it is stated that deposits of sludge at
the mouth of the river are primarily due to suspended
and settleable solids in municipal and industrial
waste discharged into the Rouge and the Detroit Rivers.
The results of bottom material sampling is shown on
Pages 215 through 220 in the Findings report.
MR. HARLOW: I think we just referred to
those a minute ago.
MR. OEMING: The percentage of total
volatile solids in bottom materials are 30.8 to
mile point 25, and ranges as a mean between 8.7 and
6.67.. Then there are some other figures for Lake
Erie with 5.8 to 8.0%.
Is this the basis upon which you made
the statement that you felt that these were primarily
municipal and industrial waste sources?
MR. HARLOW: The basis that we made the
statement has been that chart that 1 just referred
to from the Findings on Page 220, that where we
found the deposits we characterized them as of an
oily organic nature, or sometimes they were charac-
terized as an ooze, and this was material that was
causing the interference.
MR. OEMING: I see. It is not solely
-------
971
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
on the basis of volatile content of those sludges?
MR. HARLOW: No, it is not. This is one
determination that was made, though, the volatile
matter, but it was just one of the many that we based
our conclusions on.
MR. OEMING: On Page 10, Paragraph A,
under "Iron," it is stated that iron concentrations
should not exceed 0.3 mg/1 to prevent interference
with municipal and industrial water supply, and to
protect fish and wildlife.
As 1 understand it, 0.3 mg/1 represents
the recommended limits for drinking water?
MR. VAUGHAN: That is correct.
MR. HARLOW: Yes.
MR. OEMING: In the Public Health Service
drinking water standards?
MR. STEIN: Yes.
MR. OEMING: Well, this isn't the point,
the point being that I am unable to find any informa-
tion which would indicate that iron at this concen-
tration interferes with fish and wildlife.
MR. VAUGHAN: No, I don't think so either.
If you want to keep it just to that, we feel about
-------
972
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
1 ppm for fish alone, but 0.3 ppm will protect both
water uses.
MR. OEMING: I see, so there is some
modification here that ought to be made?
MR. VAITGHAN: If you wish to distinguish
between the two0
MR. STEIN: It is a literary difference.
By the way, and this is a good point, as
I understand Mr. Vaughan, he says if we have 003 ppm,
you are going to prevent interference with municipal
and industrial water supplies, and also will protect
fish and wildlife, although fish life could stand up
to 0.1?
MR. VAUGHAN: No, one part.
MR. STEIN: You understand if you get
0.3, you automatically protect the fish?
MR. OEMING: I understand this, but I
wanted to clear up the point. Is 0.3 necessary for
the protection of fish and aquatic life? Should this
be the usage that we are trying to protect?
You see, Mr, Stein, in the report there
are recommendations made where water supplies are in-
volved.
MR. STEIN: I see.
-------
973
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
MR. OEMING: And where water supplies are
not involved.
MR. STEIN: I understand that.
I think this is a semantic problem, and
in reading this, certainly you should get the other
view.
I think what Mr. Vaughan is saying is that
he took the 0.3 figure to get the most sensitive use
to be protected. That sensitive use was municipal
water supply. He also thought that these figures would
protect fish life.
It is obvious if fish could stand more
than three times this amount, that if we got down to
protect municipal water supply, the concentrations
would be so low that they would protect fish life.
I think the clarification is well taken
and in order. It was a little ambiguous from here.,
I think this is just a matter of stating it, rather
than an allegation that you need 0.3 to protect fish
Iife8
MR. OEMING: I think the point has been
cleared up. I don't know what your reasoning is, but
the point itself is clear before you got the reasoning
out.
-------
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
MR. STEIN: Well, that's fine, as long as
it is clear to you.
MR. OEMING: On Page 10, Paragraph 8,
under "Nitrogen," the report states that undesirable
blooms can be expected to occur at .3 mg/1. Page
153 of the Findings stated that blooms can be expected
to occur at 0.3.
MR. VAUGHAN: It is a typographical error.
MR. OEMING: It should be what?
MR. HARLOW: .3.
MR. OEMING: .3, all right.
I would like to clear up a point on Page
20, Paragraph 2, where it is stated that the waters
of Lake Erie are polluted by excessive concentration
of a number of constituents, including suspended
solids.
We want to talk about suspended solids
here. Would your designation of this area carrying
excessive solids include natural growths,of plankton,
algae, and this material?
MR. HARLOW: Yes. In the tests for sus-
pended solids especially as occurred in the Lake waters,
some of these solids are microscopic organisms.
MR. OEMING: Would you have any idea about
-------
975
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
the relative proportion of the solids out here that
are plankton and algae, and that are of industrial
origin or sewage origin indirectly?
MR. HARLOW: No, I would not.
MR. OEMING: You didn't try to differen-
tiate this?
MR. HARLOW: We didn't differentiate,
in the sespended solids test, between what type of
suspended solids these were.
MR. OEMING: Any questions?
MR. STEIN: No. I do have a comment here
again on the general law on this subject, that, gener-
ally speaking, where you have a substantial contribu-
tion to a pollution situation, even though your
contribution in itself will not create a pollution
situation, where it combines with other things in
the river and creates one, you would be considered
to be a contributor.
MR. OEMING: I don't believe that is the
point, Mr. Stein, as I see it.
MR. STEIN: I know.
MR. OEMING: The point I am trying to
clarify is that people who are attending this con-
ference and are aware of what is going on here have
-------
976
R. D. Vaughan and G, L. Harlow
a right to expect certain things, and I don't want
anybody to be misled that by taking care of suspended
solids of an industrial origin, they are going to
make a crystal clear lake out of Lake Erie.
There are still plankton and algae there,
and they will probably be there, and there will be
suspended solids in the lake.
MR. STEIN: Certainly. Sir, I fully
sympathize with you on this. This is the problem we
are facing constantly.
I think there are two things we have here,
that if suspended solids or any other material exists
in an area and you are adding more solids to it, you
may have a real high solids problem. By dealing with
the man-made pollution, you may be alleviating the
problem, but you are not coming back to a crystal
clear water. We have that over and over and over in
our field.
If you will just give me one second, one
of the problems that we have now is this. We are
practically completed with out cleanup job as far as
the pollution case on the Potomac River is concerned.
What we have is secondary treatment with chlorination.
During the recreation season, we have
-------
977
R. D. Vaughan and G. L, Harlow
worked out an alleviation of the stormwater overflows,
and so forth and so on.
The people want to know when they can go
swimming in the Potomac River. Bacteriologically, by
next year it might be safe. There is so much silt
coming down that river, and we told them that at the
beginning, that we do not consider it safe to go
swimming in the Potomac, because if a guard or any-
one else would have to look for anyone in that murky
water, they couldn't find him.
Secondly, aesthetically, you are probably
going to be dirtier when you come out than when you
went in, and people don't want that anywhere in this
country.
But the point is, when we are talking
about pollution control, I think the people should be
aware that when we are dealing with corrective measures,
we can only do with these measures what we can do with
them, and get this done.
One more point. When we were at the meet-
ing in Chicago that I talked about several weeks ago,
several of the conservationists got very irritated at
one point, because 1 think they misunderstood the
point.
-------
978
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
We were talking about controlling the
pollutants, and they talked about ailwives dying by
the millions in the lake. When we made it clear that
we didn't know why the ailwives died, and that if we
cleared up the pollution we could give them no assur-
ance that they wouldn't die in the future, they got
very excited.
The point was, after they recognized what
we were saying, that these are the limitations we have
in the field, they realized that the end pollution
control measures can just deal with the discharges
that are controlled and the effects of these discharges.
Effects on water quality from other sources are not
going to be touched one wit by stuff we don't know
about and stuff we can't handle.
Thank you.
MR. OEMING: On Page 21, Paragraph 6,
under the subject of "Chlorides," I think you have
stated that chlorides is a problem in the future and
there is no problem presently?
MR. VAUGHAN: Yes.
MR. OEMING: I just want to pursue this
a little further with respect to the Monroe water
intake.
-------
979
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
The statement is made that the present
levels do not interfere with water use at the Monroe
water intake, but that the year by year increase is
noted as a warning of future problems. I think you
are basing this on information shown in a figure on
Page 32 of the Findings,
I wonder how clear a picture this is to
you?
MR. VAUGHAN: This particular one, if we
had used that alone, it might have been difficult to
tie that in.
It is not shown here, but we took the
same data that made this particular graph, and plotted
an average for the year, the whole average for the
year, for four years in a row, and noted the gradual
uptake from the low 30's ppm to, I think, 39 or 40
or something like that over the time, as a whole year.
MR. OEMING: Have you been able to attri-
bute this solely to industrial use of processing of
brines in the chemical industry, or is there some other
factor involved?
My experience here is that the processing
of brines has been fairly stable over the years, and
I am trying to get at this problem of increase. I am
-------
980
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
concerned too, but, I mean, what do we do here?
MR. VAUGHAN: Well, there are two things
in the figure in the book.
You will notice that the winter months
have a higher average chloride value. This would
indicate the possibility of salt from streets affect-
ing this, so that it could be in addition. This
could be caused not only by industrial waste discharge,
but also salt washing off the streets. This is very
probable.
I would like to mention that other
writers have indicated an upward trend, a somewhat
sudden upward trend in the lake, in chloride concen-
tration in the lake over the last few years, as well
as just in this area.
MR. OEMING: This, however, you haven't
been able to evaluate?
MR. VAUGHAN: No, we didn't.
MR. STEIN: This was the one area, in
the chlorides, where you really are just pointing with
concern, without a recommendation of what can be done;
is that right?
MR. VAUGHAN: That is correct.
MR. STEIN: All right.
-------
981
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
MR. HARLOW: Mr. Oeming, I might point
out on Page 21 of the Findings, it shows that in
1960, the average --
MR. OEMING: I'm sorry, Me. Harlow. I
missed the first part.
MR. HARLOW: On Page 21 of the Findings —
MR. OEMING: Yes?
MR. HARLOW: It does show that the average
chloride level at the Monroe water intake for the en-
tire year was 30 mg/1, and in 1962 this value increased
to an average of 40 mg/1.
MR. OEMING: The highs were in the spring,
and the lower levels in the summer.
MR. VAUGHAN: That's right. That is why
we put the full record in the report.
MR. OEMING: Would you tell me what the
Public Health Service drinking water standards are
for chloride?
MR. VAUGHAN: 250 mg/1.
MR. OEMING: What are the fish limitations
for chloride?
MR. VAUGHAN: I know of none.
MR. OEMING: I say the fish that we have
in these waters here.
-------
982
R. D, Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
MR. VAUGHAN: I don't know of any. Spe-
cifically, I would guess somewhat higher than that.
If you want expert testimony, we can get it.
MR. OEMING: Well, let's get at that here.
MR. STEIN: Mr. Mackenthun.
MR. MACKENTHUN: As more or less of a
guess, I would say 3,000. I don't have the data right
here.
MR. OEMING: That is for the kind of fish
we have here?
MR. MACKENTHUN: Roughly, yes.
MR. OEMING: 3,000 mg/1?
MR. MACKENTHUN: Yes.
MR. OEMING: I think you found at the
maximum, how much? 69 parts of chloride?
MR..HARLOW: In the Trenton Channel, yes,
I did, of the Detroit River.
MR.vOEMING: Yes, and I think your re-
port stated that you found no one who complained
about this, or had any problem with them?
MR. HARLOW: We heard several casual
complaints about the chlorides, but nothing serious.
MR. STEIN: 40?
MR. OEMING: 69.
-------
983
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
MR. STEIN: Oh. Do you mind if I ask?
This is the one question that I had, and
as long as we brought this up, let me ask it. You
said there is a problem possibly of industrial water
supply. By the question, no one would substantiate
the claim?
MR. VAUGHAN: That is correct. We think
at this level some of the industries should be having
troubles.
MR. STEIN: This is the point. This is
an opinion judgment of yours?
MR. VAUGHAN: That is right.
MR. STEIN: That at 40, certain industrial
water supplies should be having trouble?
MR. VAUGHAN: Yes.
MR. HARLOW: We did receive several un-
official reports that they were having trouble, but
nothing official.
MR. STEIN: All right.
MR. OEMING: On Page 22, Paragraph 6, it
is noted that Lake Erie contains excessive concentra-
tions of organic nitrogen and soluble phosphates.
Maybe you have answered this question,
but what do you consider levels that are not excessive?
-------
984
R.D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
MR. VAUGHAN: Well, that is a negative
way of putting it, I think. I would rather see them
low, much lower than the points that would cause
stream damage.
If you want to say what levels we con-
sider excessive or dangerous, this way, we would say
.3 mg/1 of inorganic nitrogen and .015 mg/1 soluble
phosphate*
MR. OEMING: Well, I think my concern,
Mr. Vaughan is that if you came into this area in,
let's say, five years and the levels were at this
level, would this still be subject to the statement
that the levels are excessive?
MR. VAUGHAN: If it was below this now?
MR. OEMING: If it were at this .3 and
this .015.
MR. VAUGHAN: We would not say they were
excessive. We would hope that they would be lower
than that, but, in answer to your question, we would
say that they would not be excessive.
MR. OEMING: They would not be excessive?
MR. VAUGHAN: That's righto
MR. OEMING: All right.
MR8 HARLOW: If they were at this level.
-------
985
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
MR. OEMING: Yes.
MR. VAUGHAN: Or below it.
MR. OEMING: At or below it.
MR. HARLOW: If it were below -- I am not
sure, but I think there has been work done on this,
and Mr. Mackenthun is certainly better qualified to
speak on this than I am, but I don't think this level
is a hard and fast level. The indications are that —
MR. OEMING: I think both of you haven't
gotten together here0 When you say that something is
excessive --
MR. STEIN: We didn't hurt you.
MR. OEMING: No.
MR. STEIN: But obviously the questions
have been well prepared.
(Laughter.)
MR. OEMING: Let me start over. When
you say that something is excessive, you must have in
your mind something that is not excessive.
I think that whoever gets into these
programs, including you people, are going to have to
face up to the question, well, what is not excessive
when you say that something is now excessive?
MR. HARLOW: Maybe the fact is the word
-------
986
R. D. Vaughan and G. L, Harlow
"excessive" here is misued, and all we are trying to
say is that from the literature available, that if
the level gets above, say, .015 mg/1 phosphate, as
phospherus, that you can expect to trigger the algae
rate,
MR. VAUGHAN: And the nitrogen too.
MR. HARLOW: And if you get bfelow this,
this trigger action is minimized.
MR. OEMING: I guess this is all right.
MR. VAUGHAN: We will be happy to get
Mr. Mackenthun up, if you want further clarification
on it.
MR. STEIN: No. By the way, this is one
of the most important problems we have, and I think
this is a problem that we are one of the outposts of
the professionals in the field. At least, the theory,
as I understand it now, and I hope you will check me
on this, is that in dealing with eutrophication or
the aging process of the lake, the key point now is
that phosphate and phospherus discharge or level which
sets off a trigger mechanism allows the algal and
other growth to make use of the nitrogen available.
This begins a pattern of changing the biota of the
lake.
-------
98?
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
The notion is that if the phospherus
or the phosphate level is kept lower, this trigger
mechanism won't take place. The triggering won't
take place and the phosphate seems to be the trigger-
ing agent.
What we are all going to have to do is
device some kind of method, and we are dealing with
a relatively new field, where we can control this if
we are going to protect the Great Lakes.
1 spoke to your Chief of Technical Serv-
ices. He has the notion that in dealing with municipal
wastes, given secondary treatment and perhaps a pre-
cipitation process, that we can reduce phosphates
below about 90 percent of what comes into the municipal
treatment plant raw. He would think that would be a
reasonably good reduction.
As we know, there is research going on
now which possibly might give us a better reduction,
but the point is if we can get it down to that level,
at least as 1 understand it, it is believed that a
significant measure of protection to the Great Lakes
would be given.
According to our people, and I went over
this very carefully, in preparing the report they
-------
988
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
said that if we ignored the phosphate problem in deal-
ing with the situation on the Detroit River, we would
not be dealing with one of the major problems we had
here, and not be dealing with really the long range
problem of protecting the lake, and just be dealing
with immediate localized problems.
This, as far as I understand it, is the
view of the scientists.
Is this substantially correct?
MR. VAUGHAN: Yes, it is.
MR. HARLOW: That's right.
MR. POSTON: 80 percent removal of phos-
phate was with secondary treatment, without any chemi-
cal treatment or without any coagulation or special
treatment in addition; is that right?
MR. STEIN: Wait just one moment.
Again I will state it on the record, be-
cause if I am wrong, I want to be corrected on the
record.
As I understand this, there have been
just a few analyses of what secondary treatment does
to phosphate removal. We have had analyses on phos-
phate removal remaining with secondary treatment
processes, and they varied — not all of them are the
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989
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
same -- ranging from about 30 percent or 35 percent
over 80 percent, and they are not only specifics in
the same city* In some large cities we have two
secondary treatment plants, one being very close and
I would not like to identify it, one getting about
a 35 percent removal of phosphates with secondary
treatment in one plant, and in another plant over 75
and 80 percent removal of phosphates.
In other words, the removal of these
things is not presumably a defined refined operation
in secondary treatment.
However, we do know that at Hanford,
in removing the phosphates there because we had to,
because this contained a radioactive substance, —
what was it, Phospherus 236? Is that right?
MR. VAUGHAN: I am not sure.
MR. HARLOW: Phospherus 32.
MR. STEIN: They just had to pull the
phosphates out. An Allen Process was developed which
precipitated the phosphates, and this worked very,
very effectively at a relatively low cost.
The theory now, again as I understand it,
is if you are lucky and the secondary treatment plant
works and removes 80 percent of the phosphates, we
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990
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
won't have to do any more. If it doesn't, and you run
into the 35 percent level, or you have primary treat-
ment, or you have phosphates you have to get rid of,
you may have to go to some kind of precipitation pro-
cess in addition.
MR. VAUGHAN: Tertiary treatment.
MR. STEIN: Tertiary treatment, right.
MR. POSTON: There is a very learned
chemical discussion, Mr. Chairman. I want to add here
that some of the phosphate problems occur, because in
their treatment plants, where they use separate sludge
digestion and the phosphate digestion process is thrown
back into the solution, when they become dissolved,
they in turn are flushed on out into the treatment
process again, into the effluent in this dissolved
form, and, as a result, are not removed.
I think a burning of activated sludge
in this activated sludge process will provide much
higher degrees of removal of phosphates, up to this
80 percent, quite readily, whereas with separate
sludge disgestion and drying, you lose much of the
phosphate content back into the sewage.
MR. STEIN: We will at this point take a
recess for ten minutes, and resume promptly.
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R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
(A short recess was taken.)
MR. STEIN: May we reconvene?
Mr. Oeming.
MR. OEMING: Mr. Chairman, when we re-
cessed, we were on the subject of eutrophication.
Personally, there is no one more concerned with
eutrophication of Lake Erie and the other lakes than
I am.
I think it is important, within the pre-
sent state of the knowledge, that we try to clear up
some of the questions and enlighten the Conferees, as
well as other people on this subject.
The only question I want to pose here is,
is the present state of the art such, of the knowledge
such, with respect to eutrophication, that by removing,
let us say, anywhere from 30 to 80 percent of the phos-
phates, we can expect a commensurate reduction or
improvement in the eutrophication rate by any measur-
able amount? Are we at such a stage that we know
this now?
MR. VAUGHAN: I would like to make one
comment, and then call on Mr. Mackenthun, I think,
who is better qualified.
MR. OEMING: All right.
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R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
MR. VAUGHAN: To quote Mr. Mackenthun on
this, we feel if our recommendations are carried out
that the phosphate and nitrogen levels in the lake
would go down within these acceptable limits.
With that, I would like to ask for a
little help from Mr. Mackenthun to answer your ques-
tion.
MR. OEMING: All right. Did you get my
question, Mr. Mackenthun?
MR. MACKENTHUN: Yes, I think so. You
are referring to specific numbers, both in reduction
of nutrient input and reduction of algal population;
is this correct?
MR. OEMING: Well, not specific numbers.
I am just dealing with this in a broad sense. That
is, if you remove, let us say, 50 percent of the
nutrients that are going into a lake now, is there
any way to tell what commensurate improvement you
would get in the lake by that amount? Not specific
numbers. We have talked about that.
MR. MACKENTHUN: By removing the ferti-
lizing materials that enter a body of water, it could
be expected that there would be a reduction in the
amount of growth which would result therefrom,
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R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
principally algal growth which we are considering.
MR. OEMING: But it is merely some measure
there would be some reduction, but there is no way
to say —
MR. MACKENTHUN: There is no way at the
present time to put a percentage figure on the amount
that may be reduced.
There have been reported in the litera-
ture very few figures on the production of algae from
a given amount of phospherus, for example. The figures
that I am familiar with that have been reported are
from laboratory experiments or from sewage stabiliza-
tion ponds, none from the lake environment at the
present time.
MR.OEMING: And particularly the Great
Lakes is still in a stage, is it, of investigation
and study, which would perhaps lead, at some future
time, to some rationalization here?
MR. MACKENTHUN: Well, the critical values
which have been discussed here by Mr. Vaughan and
Mr. Harlow are the best judgment of the profession
at the present time. That critical value of .015
mg/1 of phospherus is a point above which one might
expect algal growths of a nuisance state to develop.
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R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
This critical value was originally pro-
posed as occurring at the time of the spring overturn
in a lake, or at the time of beginning spring growth.
The reason for this is that it is a soluble phospherus
value, and this is the time when soluble phospherus
would be expected to be at the highest concentration
in the water.
MR. OEMING: Just one more question. You
subscribe to this value for phospherus as being a
ceiling that would do some real good here in Lake Erie?
MR. MACKENTHUN: Yes, as a soluble phos-
pherus value. In actuality, some types of algae may
very well grow at a much lower value. This is a value
which is attributed as a critical level for nuisance
blooms.
MR. OEMING: I think that is all.
MR. STEIN: Thank you, Mr. Mackenthun.
MR. OEMING: My next question has to do
with this also, and this is the proportionate amounts
of nutrients that reach the lake by natural sources
and which are from man-made sources.
Would you know what the overall reduction
in nutrients would be by taking out the nutrients that
you can get at here in sewage treatment?
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R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
Let's assume for a minute, for further
explanation of the question, that you could remove
70 percent of the nutrients from the sources that you
have mentioned. I think there are principally two.
How would that compare with the amounts
of nutrients that come from sources that are not sub-
ject to control at the present time?
MR. VAUGHAN: All right. First of all,
as far as your determination of the waters going into
the Michigan waters of Lake Erie, the Detroit River
and the Raisin River, we added the phosphates up.
Can we restrict our discussion to phos-
phates, since there are mainly two sources?
MR. OEMING: That is all right.
MR. VAUGHAN: Well, from phosphates there
are two major sources which represent, in our best
judgment, about over 90 percent of all the phosphates
going into that. This is from the rivers. Presumably
some could come in from other sources we don't know
about, but we think that the vast majority of this
comes from these two sources, and if you can take, say,
about 90 percent comes from these two sources, and
9 times 7 is 63 percent -- I am just making that now.
MR. OEMING: Then I guess I have to ask
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996
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
the question in a different way.
What I am getting at is, if these sources
were removed or reduced by these amounts, is there a
likelihood that we can reach these levels of ,015
that you have suggested here?
MR. VAUGHAN: We think they will, yes —
not immediately, but within a few years.
MR. OEMING: Your computations would
indicate that the concentrations would result in this
removal?
MR. VAUGHAN: The concentrations would,
yes.
MR. OEMING: That you are seeking in the
lake?
MR. VAUGHAN: Yes, that's right.
MR. OEMING: Any comments or questions,
Mr. Stein?
MR. STEIN: No.
MR. OEMING: There has been a change in
the situation in the Sterling State Park area. There
is the Ford intake at the mouth of Sandy Creek, or
has been up until recently. This intake has been
changed now with a direct intake to the lake.
What effect do you expect this might have
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997
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
on the bacteriological quality of the northern edge
of Sterling State Park?
MR. HARLOW: If I understand and get the
situation, Sandy Creek discharges into the lake very
close to Sterling State Park.
MR. OEMING: At the northern edge.
MR. HARLOW: And I believe the creek does
pass through kind of an inland lagoon area.
MR. OEMING: That is correct.
MR. HARLOW: Ford Motor Company, accord-
ing to our studies, took water out of this creek,
approximately 200 cubic feet per second, and used it
as a process water and cooling water, but now they
go into the lake to get their water and do not take it
from this creek.
MR. OEMING: That is correct.
MR. HARLOW: Our results show that this
creek does carry at times heavily polluted waste
material, and I would suspect now that we are not
taking out 200 cfs from this creek, that the additional
flow into the lake would probably, from the standpoint
of the effect that Sandy Creek would have upon it,
increase the likelihood of a deleterious condition at
Sterling State Park.
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998
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
MR. OEMING: In other words, we have a
more intense problem today from Sandy Creek than we
had at the time you made the survey; is that correct?
MR. HARLOW: Yes. As far as the contri-
bution from Sandy Creek was concerned; I think our
results show that the major problem from the Sterling
9
State Park standpoint is the Raisin River.
MR. STEIN: Could I ask this question?
As I understand your report, do you be-
lieve that if your recommendations are followed at
Sandy Creek and Raisin River that Sterling State Park
could be opened for swimming again?
MR. VAUGHAN: Yes.
MR. OEMING: In the report you have dealt
with two municipal sewage treatment plants with re-
spect to your suggested effluent restriction require-
ments. That is, the Detroit plant and the Wyandotte
plant.
Do you intend that these would apply
also to plants in Riverview and the new Trenton plant?
MR. VAUGHAN: Yes.
MR. OEMING: These have been built since
you developed the report?
MR. VAUGHAN: That is correct, yes.
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999
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
MR. OEMING: On Page 35, under Item 2,
the recommended coliform density goal for the treat-
ment plant effluent is the same 5,000, isn't it?
MR. VAUGHAN: Yes.
MR. OEMING: 5,000. What is the goal for
an acceptable raw water supply source under the Public
Health Service water supply recommendation?
MR. VAUGHAN: Tc my understanding, the
Public Health Service has a recommendation for raw
water supplies, which is 5,000 per 100 millimeters
for raw water.
MR. OEMING: I see.
MR. VAUGHAN: That will later be treated.
MR. OEMING: On Page 35, under the subject
"Wayne County Sewage Treatment Plant, Wyandotte," in
view of the statement made regarding the fact that the
survey performed at this plant was made on the original
facilities and does not reflect the recent enlargement,
I wonder what information was collected in the study.
Does the information represent the actual
use of the Detroit River for waste disposal at the
time of the study, or only represent the quantity of
waste that was discharged through the waste treatment
plant?
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1000
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
MR. HARLOW: Well, as you know, during
our study and, I believe, for some time before that,
and until they built the new plant or added the addi-
tions, at the Wayne County Treatment Plant at Wyan-
dotte it was necessary for them to bypass, I under-
stand, large quantities of untreated waste, because
of the inability of the plant to handle this large
volume.
Our study was only made on the waste
material that passed through the plant, and did not
include that bypassed material. So far as the system
was concerned, there was more of a burden upon the
river than our results would show.
MR. OEMING: Do you have any questions,
Mr. Stein?
MR. STEIN: No. You're doing fine.
MR. OEMING: On Page 50, under "Recommenda-
tions for Monroe Sewage Treatment Plant," I fail to
find any recommended limits for suspended solids such
as you have recommended for other treatment plants.
Is this an omission, or did you intend
to make it so?
MR. VAUGHAN: Actually, the operation at
the Monroe plant is quite good. It is just barely
-------
1001
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
over that at the present time, and we felt it was un-
necessary to give them that kind of a recommendation.
If they put in secondary treatment, they would cer-
tainly get it.
MR. OEMING: 1 wonder if you would clarify
the assumption that might be drawn from a comparison
of figures 1-V and 2-V?
MR. VAUGHAN: In the Findings?
MR. OEMING: Yes.
MR. HARLOW: 1-V and 2-V?
MR. OEMING: Yes.
MR. HARLOW: You mean the one on dry and
wet coliform?
MR. OEMING: Yes. This refers to the
dry and wet conditions where the geometric mean coli-
form concentration is 1,000 - 2,400 organisms per
100 mg/1 in the area west of Fighting Island.
MR. STEIN: What page is it on?
MR. HARLOW: It is opposite Page 132 of
the Findings.
MR. STEIN: All right.
MR. OEMING: In clarifying this, I notice
that at Station Detroit 17.4-W --
MR. HARLOW: Which figure are you re-
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1002
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
ferring to, Mr. Oeming? Are you referring to 1-V or
2-V?
MR. OEMING: Let me finish the question.
Maybe this will clear it up.
In the reach between the international
boundary and Fighting Island, the wet geometric mean
coliform concentration is 2,400 or under and, in addi-
tion, the 14.6. Samples were not collected between a
point 850 feet west of the international boundary and
Fighting Island.
MR. VAUGHAN: I don't understand the ques-
tion. I'm sorry.
MR. OEMING: Well, the question is, there
is no zone on Figure 2-V where a geometric mean coli-
form concentration is 1,000 - 2,400 in the area west
of Fighting Island«
MR. HARLOW: In referring to the range?
MR. OEMING: Yes.
MR. HARLOW: Are you saying there is no
sampling station?
MR. OEMING: Yes.
MR. HARLOW: For this length of --
MR. OEMING: I wonder if the conclusion
drawn was sufficient here, based on the fact that you
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1003
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
didn't have samples in here?
MR. VAUGHAN: I see what you mean now.
MR. OEMING: Yes.
MR. HARLOW: What conclusion was drawn?
MR. OEMING: Between the dry and wet con-
ditions. That is evaluating the dry and wet conditions
here.
MR. VAUGHAN: Let me phrase this right.
George and I, I think, are a little confused about
this point.
MR. OEMING: I'm sorry.
MR. VAUGHAN: Do you mean because we have
this whole map shaded as to condition of bacterial
quality, but we don't have sampling stations?
MR. OEMING: Yes.
MR. VAUGHAN: That is true. We didn't
take sampling stations at every place in the area.
This is a finite map that reported actual sampling
stations. This is, in our best judgment, the distri-
bution of coliform organisms throughout the lake,
based on the sampling stations that we took.
MR. OEMING: You skipped an area in here,
and you felt this was adequate sampling?
MR. VAUGHAN: That is the best we could
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1004
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
do, that's right.
MR» OEMING: Any questions or comments?
MR. STEIN: When you get into this, all
I can do is keep up with the charts and maps. I'm
just happy there is a man who can go over that in
this detail and find it.
(Laughter.)
MR. OEMING: On Page 281 in the Findings
section, the statement refers to oxygen consuming
materials added to the lake.
I wonder if the inference is correct
that oxygen consuming materials are accumulative, and
that an equilibrium condition has not been reached.
Is this correct or incorrect?
MR. HARLOW: Didn't we kind of answer
that earlier before when we stated —
MR. OEMING: These are oxygen consuming
materials.
MR. HARLOW: We are talking about bio-
chemical oxygen demand?
MR. OEMING: Yes. If you feel you have
answered it, would you please repeat the answer?
MR. HARLOW: Well, there is now a present
load of approximately this figure I have used, 4 million
-------
1005
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
population equivalents being discharged into the lake
from municipal sources and industrial sources to the
river, and subsequently to the lake.
I feel that if this level is increased
above the level now being discharged, that there will
be oxygen problems from the biochemical oxygen demand
taking this oxygen out of the water0
Is that what you were referring to?
MR. OEMING: Yes.
MR. HARLOW: When you referred to an
equilibrium condition?
MR. OEMING: Yes.
MR. STEIN: I don't see where he talks
about equilibrium.
MR. OEMING: I am talking about it. He
doesn't talk about it, but the way it is stated, you
might assume here that to add oxygen consuming mater-
ials to the lake is accumulative, and I don't think
this is what he meant. I wanted to clarify the state-
ment.
MR. VAUGHAN: What you say is possible,
of course.
MR. OEMING: On Page 325, under the
subject of 'Vegetation11--
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1006
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
MR. HARLOW: 325?
MR. OEMING: Yes. There were abundant
growths of two aquatic fauna, I guess, and it is
stated that these growths "are not only undesirable
from an aesthetic standpoint, but also interfere
with boating by fouling propellors. Later in the
season the vegetation dies and decomposes, accompanied
by strong odors."
It is further stated, "The solutions to
the problem include abatement of pollution from sources
containing significant amounts of phosphorus and
nitrogen compounds."
s Now, this is in a wild fowl staging area,
as you know, and all of us I think are concerned with
the welfare of these waterfowl, and those growths are
food and good habitat for the waterfowl.
I wonder how we resolve this question.
If we try to protect the waterfowl and we cause trouble
with the boats in the process, how do we get around
this one?
MR. VAUGHAN: Well, that is, of course,
a very legitimate question.
We realize both things you said are abso-
lutely true. This may mean there is a pollution problem
-------
1007
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
from one standpoint, and there is food for wildlife
propagation which would stimulate this.
I don't know if I know a ready answer to
this. We are pointing out that this pollution does
occur, and perhaps even better minds than ours might
have to come up with the answers to this, and it might
be management of this problem or finding alternate
solutions to the food. I don't know.
MR. OEMING: Well, I think this is a real
critical problem.
MR. VAUGHAN: We recognize this.
MR. OEMING: Because, on the one hand,
we perhaps ought to encourage these crops of vegeta-
tion down there and, on the other hand, it causes
some injury to other uses, and I wondered if you had
some answer to this one.
MR. VAUGHAN: No, we don't. I am sure
this is not the only occasion where there has been a
conflict between water uses that people have to mull
over for quite some time.
MR. OEMING: Mr. Chairman, that concludes
the questions that I would like to pose at this time.
I want to express my thanks and apprecia-
tion to Mr. Harlow and Mr, Vaughan for the frank and
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1008
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
excellent way in which they have answered the questions.
This has been very helpful to me, I know, and helpful
to our commissioners who are here, in enlightening them
on some of the unresolved questions that seemed, at
least, to be such.
MR. STEIN: Yes. They also helped me and
enlightened me0
On your last question here, I wonder if,
while you are still up here, we couldn't resolve this.
If this is a waterfowl area and we have
to provide food for the waterfowl, is a legitimate
interest being interfered with when you talk about
fouling propellors?
MR. VAUGHAN: In the same area, boating
is practiced. Who makes this decision, I don't know,
Mr. Stein.
MR. STEIN: Well, I don't know who makes
the decision, but dealing with the waterfowl here, you
know we do have a treaty with Canada on migratory birds,
which I think was up before the Supreme Court at least
once, and it seems to me the Supreme Court makes so
many distinctions, and I think the treaty is kind of
a ruling on this,
I would suspect, in this case, the lake
-------
1009
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
seems to be big enough, and if we have a wild fowl
area, I think we should be able to agree among the
Conferees that as a rule of thumb this probably is an
area that is going to be preserved, unless there is
some persuasive --
MR. OEMING: I wish you were more positive
about that.
MR. STEIN: Unless there is some per-
suasive evidence to indicate that those boats have
a right to be in there, should be in there and spin
their propellors, we might not consider that an in-
terference with a water use.
MR. VAUGHAN: We found this in many areas,
including the wild fowl staging area. We found this
in other areas as well.
MR. HARLOW: There is one other interfer-
ence it does cause, and you can judge this from what
I say about it, and that is that when these growths
that the biologists had told me about decay and die,
they also create an odor problem.
MR. STEIN: You know, I expect we have
some Audubon Society and bird watchers in the audience,
but I don't think that is very much uncharacteristic
of a wildlife refuge or a wildlife area, where you
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1010
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
are going to have vegetation supporting wildlife, and
you are going to get that.
There is a question here on the balancing
of usage. If this is a waterfowl area, you have to
expect decaying of vegetation. You have to take these
things as they come.
I guess Detroit, being what it is, takes
the smell of gasoline with the automobile. When I
was a boy, we used to take other smells when they used
horses, and I think you have to take decaying vege-
tation if you have wild fowl.
MR. VAUGHAN: Yes, I would agree with
that.
I would like to emphasize, in addition
to these areas, we did find them in other parts, in-
cluding people with property. The poor property
owner is not happy with the vegetati on.
MR. STEIN: That is another point.
MR. VAUGHAN: The two points are correct.
MR. STEIN: I think Mr. Oeming did point
to this in the report, and that is a point of clari-
fication.
I was thinking, unless something comes
up, maybe the Conferees can agree that we could give
-------
ion
R. D. Vaughan and G. L. Harlow
the wild fowl their due in the area.
MR0 HARLOW: I would like to point out,
lest I am misunderstood, that I am also for doing all
I can to protect the wild fowl.
MR. VAUGHAN: You don't want to be stoned.
(Laughter.)
MR. STEIN: At this time, we will recess
for lunch.
We will reconvene at half past one.
(Whereupon, at 11:55 a.m., a luncheon
recess was taken.)
-------
1012
AFTERNOON SESSION
1:30 P.M.
MR. STEIN: May we reconvene?
I would like to say this, and this is a
little unusual. I see a man who came into the audience
this morning, who has probably caught the eye of all
the people at the front table, except Al, who is the
stenographer, in this business of water pollution con-
trol, and he is one of the senior statesmen in the
field, Mr. Oeming's predecessor in office.
I wonder if he would stand up, Milton P.
Adams.
(Applause.)
MR. STEIN: Mr. Oeming, do you have another
question?
MR. OEMING: Mr. Chairman, yes. With your
permission, I would like to ask one more question of Mr.
Mackenthun with respect to the eutrophication of the
lake.
Mr. Mackenthun, if the deterioration in
the quality of Lake Erie could be shown as a steadily
descending line in water quality, what would you expect
would happen in the direction of that line if we reached
-------
1013
K. Mackenthun
the objectives that have been mentioned in the report as
for the concentration of phosphates?
To make it a little more specific, would you
expect that this descending line of water quality would
flatten out and remain flat, or would you expect a drop
and then a steady increase in improvement in water qual-
ity?
MR. MACKENTHUN: As the concentration of
phospherus from the inflowing water became less than the
concentration in the receiving water, I would expect an
improvement in the water quality to result, this improve-
ment to be defined as a reduction in the algal mass.
To express it another way, there would be
perhaps a short interval of a flat line, on your parti-
cular expression, followed by a line showing improved
water quality-
MR. OEMING: You have put this in the frame
of reference of a better quality of water coming out of
the Detroit River than exists in the lake at the present
time. Is that what you are --
MR. MACKENTHUN: In your particular question,
when the quality of water entering the particular body
of water has a phospherus concentration of a magnitude
less than that within the receiving water, under those
-------
1014
K. Mackenthun
circumstances, the water quality within the receiving
water would improve.
MR. OEMING: Well, ultimately you would have
some stabilization, wouldn't you? The phospherus in the
receiving water would be the same quality as what is
coming out of the river?
MR. MACKENTHUN: That is right, and this would
make for a flattening or a stabilization over a short per-
iod of time, following which there would be an improvement
in the quality.
MR. OEMING: That is all.
MR. STEIN: Thank you.
MR. OEMING: Thank you very much, Mr. Macken-
thun.
MR. STEIN: At this time, I would like to
call on Mr. Oeming for the presentation of the Michigan
report.
MR. OEMING: Mr. Chairman and fellow Con-
ferees:
I have at the moment two statements to be
made here, one by the Michigan Department of Conservation,
and one jointly by the Water Resources Commission and
Health Department.
As indicated by the Secretary's letter, the
-------
1015
L. F. Oeirdn^
State1 was iven the opportunitv to invite statements from
a0encies and from units of government, and so on, and 1
also extended an invitation to the Department of Economic
Expansion. I don't know whether they are here, but at
t':e end of the presentations I have, I would like to just
call on them if they are here.
At this ti;r.e, I would like to introduce Mr.
Gerald Eddy to you, who represents Dr. Hactfullan at this
t
conference as an alternate, and he will present a state-
ment on behalf of the Department of Conservation.
STATEMENT OF GER.vLD EDDY,
STATE GEOLOGIST, MICHIGAN
DEPARTMENT OF CONSERVATION
' MR. EDDY: Mr. Chairman and Conferees:
I ai: presenting a statement prepared by
Dr. MacMullan, Director of Conservation.., ou behalf of
the Conservation Department. I am Gerald Eddy. I ara
the State Geologist with the State Department of Conservation.
-------
Gerald Eddy I0l6
This meeting is an extension of a Joint
Federal-State conference on the pollution of the navig-
able waters of the Detroit River, Lake Erie, and their
tributaries, held March 2? - 28, 1962.
The Michigan Department of conservation
submitted statements to that 1962 conference. This
presentation is intended to bring those earlier state-
ments up to date and to make additional comments in '
light of the recent published report of the u. S. Public
Health service Detroit River - Lake Erie project.
The Detroit River and Lake Erie have great
significance as natural resources. we would like to
begin, therefore, by discussing briefly the resource
characteristics of rivers and lakes in general.
A river is more than a conduit; a lake
is more than a reservoir,, A river is more than a
pipe to bring us a substance - water - and more than a
ditch to carry off materials we no longer want - used
water and waste.
A lake is more than a tank to store and
contain water and waste. Each lake and each stream is
-------
1017
Gerald Eddy
a natural phenomenon, of value in itself. Its
ingredients are chemical, biological physical, and
esthetic. They include plants, animals, matter in
solution and suspension; all brought into association
by tie medium of water.
Because of this combination of characteris-
tics, lakes and streams form a many-faceted resource.
The utilization of any one facet can have profound in-
fluence upon each of the others. Each use can cause
some hazard to the lake or stream, itself, if carried to
excess.
No single use of a lake or stream poses so
great a threat to all other values as the disposal of
waste. We believe that the concept of disposing of
wastes by committing them to lakes and streams ultimately
must change. We recognize the enormous financial
and economical Implications of that statement; neverthe-
less, we are convinced that the other values of these
water resources are such that the day will come when
their use for waste disposal will cease, by popular
d emand.
The remainder of this statement will deal
with three specific conservation aspects of water and
its use: fish; waterrowl; and parks and recreation.
-------
1018
Gerald Eddy
By limiting our discussion to these, we do not
mean to imply that they are the only values of water
resources to be considered. ¥e do insist that they are
important values which, even if there were no other con-
siderations, would justify the need to guarantee high
water quality in the Detroit River and Lake Erie.
On the subject of fish:
Fisheries resources, both sport and commercial,
are entirely dependent on water quality. Within the past
30 years, the fisheries resources in the Detroit River
and Lake Erie have deteriorated rapidly. That deteriora-
tion is continuing. The desirable clean-water fish
species formerly present are fast disappearing, and
being replaced by less desirable, pollution-tolerant
species.
The evidence is strong that the deterioration
of fish resources in these waters has come about prin-
cipally because of environmental changes resulting from
pollution. These changes are complex and subtle, and
A
have affected fish life In many ways. Perhaps the most
important change is rapid eutrophic aging stimulated by
nitrogen compounds and phosphates found in organic wastes.
Nutritive enrichment provided by these wastes leads to
oxygen depletion, temperature increases, turbidity,and
-------
1019
Gerald Eddy
interruption of the biological food chain. In addition,
some chemical and industrial wastes contain toxicants
directly harmful to fish.
Until quite recently, Lake Erie was the most
productive of the Great Lakes in terms of useful fish.
It continues to support a large fish population, but
the composition of that population has changed drastically,
The valued blue pike has disappeared; the lake herring
and whitefish are almost gone. The walleye is in a
precarious state. Of the desirable species, only the
yellow perch remains abundant, and there are indications
that even this tolerant and prolific species may be in
trouble.
The new Lake Erie fish population is composed
predominantly of species of little commercial value and
of minor interest to sport fishermen, such as carp and
sheepshead.
The situation in the Detroit River is similar
to that in Lake Erie.
The fisheries of Lake Erie and the Detroit
River unquestionably are deteriorating and can be saved
only by an all-out effort to restore water quality to
standards favorable to desirable fish.
-------
1020
Gerald Eddy
Now, in the field of waterfowl:
This Department in 1962 pointed out that
pollution in the Detroit River had claimed a heavy toll
of ducks during the previous two decades. Of the
several forms of pollution, oil discharges were the
most serious to waterfowl.
It was further pointed out that a monitoring
system initiated by the Water Resources Commission in
March, 1962, was the best way to provide early detection
of pollution and trace it to its source. It was stated
that the monitoring system would be an effective deter-
rent to careless waste handling, especially if backed
by strong enforcement of State laws.
Comparative figures for losses before and
after establishment of this monitoring system are now
available. Prom March, 1962, to the present, losses
of ducks were significantly reduced below the levels of
previous years. The record for the three years shows
only one loss due to a specific accident, which did not
Involve oil. During the 12 years from 1948 to I960, 12
separate serious losses occurred, which was before
monitoring.
The reduction In losses appears to be a direct
result of the monitoring system. Furthermore, Signl-
-------
1021
Gerald Eddy
ficant decreases in oil discharges since 1962 have
been noted in field inspections.
Thus, there have been some gains on this
particular problem. Gratifying though these are,
they are no cause for complacency. New and serious
waterfowl losses could occur at any time. At the very
least we will need to continue to maintain vigilant
patrols and make frequent checks on discharge outlets.
Vigorous enforcement remains essential.
In the field of parks and recreation:
The U. S. Public Health Service report on
the Detroit River - Lake Erie project states:
"Restriction of recreational opportunities
in Lake Erie and its Michigan tributaries may be the
worst damage from pollution, inestimable in dollar
figures. At beaches near the mouth of the Detroit
River, any kind of water contact sports - even water
skiing or boating - is hazardous. The beaches at
Sterling State Park, in heavy demand by a metropolitan
population of nearly four million (projected to reach
5-| million by 1980), have had to be posted as unsafe for
swimming. The beaches, themselves are often offensive
due to the washing ashore of rotting plant life and
-------
1022
Gerald Eddy
decomposing matter of sewage and industrial origin."
We can add nothing to that statement beyond
detailing some of the effects of pollution on parks and
other recreation facilities located in and along the
Detroit River and Lake Erie.
Sterling, the only State park on the Michigan
portion of Lake Erie, has been closed to swimming since
1961, owing to bacterial contamination of its 7,800-foot
beach. Attendance at this park has dropped from
1,239,216 in 1951 to 319>500 in 1964, a decline of
approximately 75 per cent. This drop occurred during
years when most other State parks were overcrowded to
the point that tens of thousands of would-be users were
turned away annually.
Since March, 1962, we have spent about
$500,000 for buildings, roads, water and sewage facilities,
and other improvements at Sterling State Park in an
effort to provide a badly needed major recreational
facility for this heavily populated part of Michigan
and for out-of-state visitors entering the State at its
southeast gateway. Consideration has even been given
to construction of an artificial swimming pool as a
feeble substitute for the natural beach. This would be
a shameful solution to a problem which should be solved
-------
1023
Gerald Eddy
by cleaning up the pollution which necessitates "no
swimming1 signs.
As the Public Health Service report points
out, 26 out of the 31 miles of the Detroit River are
unsafe for swimming, water skiing, and other water contact
sports. Boaters and the more than 60 marinas in the
Detroit River-western Lake Erie complex must contend
with oil and sludge which not only cause direct damage
to boats and docks, but also seriously detract from the
recreational pleasures of boating.
As a conclusion:
The Public Health Service report asserts,
"While there is some evidence that water quality is
improving, because of increased water uses damages are
increasing, and unless remedial action is taken immediate-
ly the usefulness of the water resources of the Detroit
area may be destroyed completely by pollution."
That statement applies with special emphasis
to the conservation-recreation values discussed in the
previous sections of this statement. It is evident
that the interests of fish, waterfowl, and recreation
have not been adequately protected by past pollution
definitions and water quality standards. There is in
our minds a serious question whether new definitions and
-------
1024
Gerald Eddy
standards will be adequate unless the Importance of
these values Is given first consideration.
The Detroit River and Lake Erie form
part of a great metropolitan complex. This complex
is growing, and it will continue to grow at an in-
creasing pace, unless all the population projections
are wrong. Along with this growth has come a
recreation boom, that likewise is still gathering
momentum.
The recreational potential of these two bodies
of water is enormous. Given clean water—perhaps I should
say cleaner water—they are capable of meeting the
recreational needs of millions of people, while at the
same time contributing to their economic prosperity
and esthetic enjoyment.
Water that is fit for swimming, for sport-
fishing, for pleasure-boating, for waterfowl resting
places—water that is pleasing to the optic and to the
olfactory nerves, necessarily will be water fit for all
other uses as well. We suggest, then, that this cri-
terion should be the guideline for the setting and en-
forcement of water quality standards in the Detroit River,
Lake Erie, and their tributaries in the future.
-------
1025
Gerald Eddy
MR. STEIN: Thank you, Mr. Eddy, for a very
excellent statement.
Are there any comments, or questions?
MR. POSTON: I would like to have Mr. Eddy
thank Dr. MacMuIlan for the very fine paper that he has
given here, and I certainly appreciate these views. I
think they outline very well the Department of Conserva-
tion's ideas.
MR. EDDY: Thank you.
MR. STEIN: Mr. Eddy, when you talk about
whitefish, whenever I go to a restaurant in the midwest
I always see Lake Superior whitefish on the menu.
Don't you have any whitefish in Lake Erie
that you can serve?
MR. EDDY: Not for some time. The whitefish
are coming back in Lake Huron and Lake Superior, but we
are not very hopeful about our part of Lake Erie anyway.
MR. STEIN: Do you think if the lake is re-
stored, we might have some Lake Erie whitefish?
MR. EDDY: A long time from now perhaps.
I'm not too confident of it.
MR. STEIN: There is another point you made.
You said you are convinced that other values
of the water resources are such that the day will come
-------
1026-7
Gerald Eddy
when their use for waste disposal will cease by popular
demando I never knew we were very popular.
(Laughter„)
Thank you0 Mr. Oeming?
MR. OEMING: At this time I would like to
call jointly on Mr. Purdy, Chief Engineer of the Water
Resources Commission, and Mr. John Vogt, the Director
of the Division of Engineering, Michigan Department of
Health, to present a combined report.
I believe that the program here is for Mr.
Purdy to commence, and then Mr. Vogt will make a pre-
sentation of some portion of it.
-------
1028
STATEMENT OF RALPH PURDY,
CHIEF ENGINEER, WATER RESOURCES COMMISSION
OF THE STATE OF MICHIGAN
MR. PURDY: I am Ralph Purdy, Chief
Engineer of the Water Resources Commission.
Chairman Stein, Conferees, Commission
members, and others in attendance here today:
This report up-dates information contained
in the report "Water Pollution Control in River Basins
of the Southeastern Michigan Region," presented by the
State at the March, 1962, conference.
a
It delineates accomplishments in controlling
pollution of the waters of the Detroit River and Michigan
portion of Lake Erie. As in the original report the
files and records of the Michigan Water Resources Commis-
sion and Michigan Department of Health are the sources
of Information contained herein and the employed staffs
of both agencies collaborated in assembling the material
and in preparing the report.
Chapter 1 of the State report at the first
session outlines the statutory authority, policies, and
procedures for the administration of the water pollution
control function in Michigan, and we call the attention
-------
1029
Ralph Purely
of the conferees to this section for such information.
The State Highway Commissioner, member of the Water
Resources Commission, has been replaced by a State
Highway Director.
Michigan, through its state agencies,
recognizes its obligation to protect and conserve its
water resources as presclbed by statute. As pointed
out in the earlier report to the conferees, every city,
village, or township, having a sewer system, had either
a sewage treatment plant of its own or contracts with
another governmental unit for treatment of its collected
wastes. It was shown that facilities and methods for
treatment or control of the polluting constituents in
process wastes are provided at virtually all industries.
The Chairman, at the close of the first conference stated,
"Whenever any foreign visitor came to Washington, they
always asked us what is one of the better State programs
to look at, and invariably we sent them to Michigan.
I think that the record here, both the report that our
Department prepared, and the report we got from the
State, and others, indicates that this is so. I don't
think that we could have developed the record and gotten
so much data at a first session of a conference in prac-
tically any other area. At least, to my experience this
-------
1030
Ralph Purdy
has not been done, particularly in an area where we
have as complicated and so sophisticated a situation
as we have in the Detroit metropolitan area."
He further stated, ''I think cognizance should
be taken of the excellent work and programming of the
Michigan State authorities; the fact that almost all
the wastes in this area are being treated."
I wish to emphasize to the conferees that we
are not at the beginning of a pollution abatement
program in this area as In the case in many other areas
in the United States. Many millions of dollars have
been spent by Michigan municipalities and industries In
the Detroit metropolitan area and Monroe area. Pollution
has not been allowed to worsen and go unchecked. Water
quality today is Improved as compared to the past. This
is shown by the present report of the Secretary of Health,
Education, and Welfare, and also by reports of the
International Joint Commission. We are looking today
at what are the additional needs, over and above what
has already been provided, to maintain satisfactory
water quality for today's uses of the receiving waters
and to provide guide lines for tomorrow.
The need for an investigation and appraisal
of the discharges of waste water to the Detroit River
-------
1031
Ralph Purely
and Michigan waters of Lake Erie was recognized by the
Michigan Water Resources Commission and an outline of
a proposed comprehensive study was prepared in 1961.
The survey was to be undertaken and performed by the
State. An alternate procedure was selected by former
Governor Swainson and by letter dated December 5.» 196l,
asked, "In accordance with Section 8 of P.L. 660 as
amended (P.L. 87-88) I request that you, as Secretary
of Health, Education and Welfare; assist the State of
Michigan to identify and recommend methods for correcting
the sources of pollution going into the Detroit River
and subsequently into Lake Erie."
The study has been completed by the
Department of Health, Education, and Welfare with the
staffs of the Michigan Water Resources Commission and
Michigan Department of Health participating cooperatively
in certain specific portions. The report written by
the staff of the Department of Health, Education and
Welfare was presented to the State some thirty days in
advance of this conference. An essential element in
the final determination of the effluent quality re-
strictions for wastes discharged to the Detroit River
and Michigan waters of Lake Erie is the development
of quantitative goals for desired water quality
-------
1032
Ralph Purdy
objectives to accommodate the various uses made of
the receiving waters„ Recommended quantitative goals
or guidelines of desirable resultant river water quality
are in the most part not stated in the report.
That completes the first section of my
presentation.
-------
1033
Ralph Purdy
MR. STEIN: Thank you very much. Are there
any comments or questions?
MR. POSTON: I think not.
MR. STEIN: I have one, Mr. Purdy. As far
as I understand the point developed by the Government
investigators, it is that the development of effluent
requirements by them, they believe, would result in a
condition of water quality in the river which would
protect health and welfare. I think this was the theory
that they present, and, as I understand this, we always
have to work back on the development of requirements
in the River, but in order to tell a city or an industry
what to do, we always have to work back to that.
Presumably the investigators have worked
back to that point, and they believe that if this is
accomplished, the quality of waters will be in reasonable
shape to protect health and welfare.
MR. PUKDY: Yes, Mr. Stein. This comment
was put in so that, or at least, if these goals were
4
stated, that at some later date the State could test the
receiving waters and determine whether or not the various
water uses were being protected.
You might test the effluent and find that
-------
1034
Ralph Purely
the effluent is in compliance with the effluent
restrictions; but if this does not provide the water
quality necessary to protect the various uses, we then
have not accomplished our Job.
MR. STEIN: Mr. Purdy, I could not agree
with you more; and I think Mr. Oeming and I see this
eye-to-eye; but I do believe that the investigators
here believe that in the existing state of discharges,
if those effluents standards were met you would have a
quality of water in your River which would protect health
and welfare.
Now, this is the supposition, as I understand
it in the presentation of the report, that these people
made those effluent determinations; they kept constantly
relating this to the effects that this would have on
the Detroit River and on Lake Erie, and these waters
at the point of use, and they believed that this would
provide adequate protection from this view.
MR. OEMJNQ: Mr. Chairman, and fellow conferees:
This is John E. Vogt, director of engineering, Michigan
Department of Health, who will continue with the presenta-
tion of this Joint report.
-------
1035
STATEMENT OP JOHN E. VOOT,
DIRECTOR OF ENGINEERING
DEPARTMENT CP HEALTH
OF THE STATE OF MICHIGAN
MR. VOGT: Mr. Chairman, Conferees,
Ladies and Gentlemen:
I will discuss the status of municipal
sewage collection and treatment.
The report on Water Pollution Control in the
River Basins of the Southeastern Michigan Region
presented by the Michigan Department of Health and
Water Resources Commission at the Conference called by
the Secretary of Health, Education, and Welfare in
Detroit on March 27 and 28, 1962, sets forth information
%
on the type and extent of sewer systems and the disposal
and treatment methods in effect at all governmental
units within the region. It was pointed out that
every city, village, and township having a sewer
system had with a sewage treatment plant of its own
or contracted with another governmental unit for treat-
ment of its collected wastes. Further, that of about
3,500,000 living in developed sections of this area, less
than 2 per cent lived in municipalities having no sewer
-------
1036
John E. Vogt
system.
The aggressive program of the Water Resources
Commission and State Health Commissioner in bringing
about development of sewer systems and treatment works
was indicated by a listing of formal corrective actions
against municipalities taken by these regulatory agencies
to maintain control of pollution. It was clearly
demonstrated by these tabulations and the accompanying
text that in virtually every community in the Detroit
River and tributary river basins pollution control
facilities either had been Installed, were under con-
struction, or were scheduled for construction.
During the 38-month period since this infor-
mation was presented this program has continued as
scheduled, quite without influence or reference to the
Detroit River-Lake Erie study praject undertaken by the
Department of Health, Education and Welfare. All of
the work under construction or scheduled at that time
has been completed except for one project to be completed
this year. In addition several communities have built
new sewer systems and treatment facilities to prevent
initial pollution; others have extended and improved
sewer systems and treatment works to keep abreast of
-------
1037
John E. Vogt
community growth and expansion and still others have
installed facilities for separation of storm and
sanitary sewer systems or other means of improved con-
trol of overflows from combined sewer systems. Many
of these projects have be~en undertaken voluntarily
indicating a growing public acceptance of the re-
sponsibility for effective pollution control and
improvement of environmental health conditions.
The tabulations presented in the March 1962,
report have been updated to show the status of parojects
undertaken since 1950 by communities in the Detroit
River system drainage basins to maintain control of
pollution. Status as of June 1, 1965* is shown
on the accompanying Tables, together with the status of
each project as of March 1962.
Mr. Chairman, I would like to request that
the tables in this report be made a part of the record.
I shall conserve time by not reading these tables.
MR. STEIN: They will be Included as if
read, without objection.
(Six pages of tables follow.)
-------
ACTIOII TAKEN Hf
OX'I-IU1IITIS3 AliD UTATE RBGULATOlff AGBIICIES
SINCE 1950 TO i-IAH-.TTAUT COilTROL OF
S.tatus
How Project Initiated
Conniunity
Almont
Ann Arbor
Amada
Centerline
Carleton
Chelsea
Clinton Twp-Macor.b Co.
Clinton Tvjp-flacomb Co.
Dearborn
*Detroit
Detroit
Detroit
Detv-it
Dexter
Dundee
Farainfjtou
Action
Voluntary
Agreement
Voluntary
Order
Voluntary
Afireencnt
Voluntary
Voluntary
Stip'n
Order
Order
Agreement
Voluntary
Voluntary
Order
Order
Agency
-
MDH
-
WRC
-
MDH
-
WRC
WRC
WRC
MDH
-
WRC
WRC
Year
-
1962
-
195C
-
1959
.
1955
1950
1950
3-959
-
1951
1950
Facilities Required
Treatment Plant
Treatment Plant Addns
Treatment Plant
Coribined sewer separa-
tion; connection of
sanitary to Detroit
Lagoons
Treatment Plant A.'.dns
Treatment plant
Treatment pj_ant
Abandonment and plant
connection to Detroit
Interceptor
Pump Station
Interceptor
Treatment Plant Addns
Treatment Plant Addns
Treatment Plant
Combined oewer over-
Coot
$ 195,000
$2,395,000
$ 272,000
$1,307,000
$ 105,000
$ 175,000
$1, GOO, 000
;)1, 000,000
$ 270,000
$5,350,000
$ 921,500
$1,350,000
$12, '000,000
$ 05,000
$ 2^2,000
$ J(OO,000
As of March
27, 19o2
Completed 1957
Initiated later
Completed 195 j
Construction
Commenced
Initiated later
Complied
Completed 1953
Completed 1957
*cheu,,:,« 1952
Complied
Under Constr.
Commenced 19ol
Under Conntr.
Initiated later
Complied
Complied
As of June 1,
19o5
Completed
1957
'Under Constr.
Completed
Complied
Completed
Complied
Complied
C-r^lied
Conpl-.t'-rl
Complied :
Completed
Completed
Complied
Complied
1955
**
19o5
1963
L-"-'3,
1963
Flat Rock
MDH
flow control connec-
tio--- t.i Detroit
1958 Treatment Plant Addns $ 100,000 Scheduled 19o2 Complied 19o3
* Expenditures do not include over $100 million fron 1950-19o5 for relief sewers and retention of combined sewage
for subsequent treatment.
-------
Status
Community
How Project Initiated
Action Agency Year
Facilities Required
Cost
As of March As of June 1,
Jl*.
Gibralter
Grosse lie Township
Grosse Pointe Park
Agreement
Order
Stip'n
Macomb County (Southeast) Stip'n
E. Detroit
Roseville
St. Clair Shores
Manchester
Melvindale
Milan
Milford
Mt. Clemens
New Haven
New Baltimore
Oakland County-Evergreen
Farmington Interceptor
Serving:
Birmingham
Bloomfield Hills
Bloomf ield Tv/p
Farmlngton Tv/p
Keego Harbor
Lathrup Village
Pontiac Twp
MDH
MDH
WRC
WRC
1958
1964
I960
1900
Interceptor connection $ 500,000
to Wayne Co plant at
Trenton *
Treatment Plant and $5,000,000
Interceptor (by Wayne
County)
Scheduled 1962 Complied 1963
Scheduled
Constr commenced
1964 - to be
Combined sewer over-
flow control connec-
tion to Detroit
$ 175,000 Commenced 1961 Complied
Combined sewer separa- $38,000,000
tion and control of
overflows
In financing 1 project complied
stage 1964, remainder
scheduled 1965
Order
Order
Order
Order
Order
Voluntary
Voluntary
Order
Order
Order
Voluntary
Voluntary
Order
Voluntary
WRC
WRC
WRC
WRC
WRC
-
-
WRC
WRC
WRC
WRC
1951-
1951
1951
1951
-
-
1952
1952
1952
1954
Treatment plant
Connection to Detroit
Treatment Plant
Treatment Plant Addns
Treatment plant
Treatment Plant
Treatment Plant
Interceptor with
connection to Detroit
$ 140,000 Complied
$ 25,000 Complied
$ 225,000 Complied
$ 75,000 Complied
$2,000,000 Complied
$ 320,000 Completed 1956
$ 580,000 Completed 1962
Complied
Complied
Complied
Complied
Complied
Completed
Completed 1962
$12,693.000 Completed 1960 Completed 1960
O
00
vo
-------
Community
How Project Initiated
Action Agency Year
Facilities Required
Cost
Status
As of March As of June 1,
27, 19b2 1965
Oakland County-Evergreen
Farmineton Interceptor
Serving - Continued
Southfield Order
Troy (portion) Voluntary
\1. Bloomfield Twp Voluntary
Westwood Voluntary
*Oakland Co - Southeastern Order
Sewage Disposal System
Serving:
Berkley
Birmingham
Bloomfield Hills
Clawson
Ferndale
Hazel Park
Huntington vfoods
Madison Heights
Oak Park
Pleasant Ridge
Royal Oak
Royal Oak Twp
Southfield
Troy
Pontiac
Pontlac
Riverview
Rochester
Rockvrood
Order
Order
Agreement
Agreement
Agreement
WRC
MDH
WRC
WRC
MDH
MDH
MDH
1952
195T
1951
1959
1960
1960
195 u
Combined sewer .overflow$7.?5QO,OOG
control;relief sanitary
interceptor with connec-
tion to Detroit
Treatment Plant Addns $ 800,000
Treatment Plant Addns $3,200,000
Treatment Plant $911,000
Treatment Plant Addns $^95,000
Treatment Plant Addns $1^0,000
(by Wayne Co)
To be com-
pleted 1962
Complied 1964
Complied Complied
Constr.commenced Complied 1963
Scheduled 19b2 Complied 1965
Complied Complied
Scheduled 19o2 Complied
Additional $53,000,000 expended for relief sewers and retention of combined sewage for subsequent treatment.
O
-IS-
C'
-------
Status
How Project Initiated
Conmunity
Saline
Saline
Sputh Lyon
Sterling Twp -Ma comb Co
Stockbridge
Tecumseh
Trenton
Utica
Action Agency
Order WRC
Agreement MDH
Agreement MDH
Voluntary
Voluntary
Order WRC
Agreemcnl MDH
Voluntary
Year Facilities Required
1951 Treatment Plant
1963 Treatment Plant Addns
1958 Treatment Plant Addns
Treatment Plant MC.,s
Lagoons & Interceptor
19^9 Treatment plant
1958 'j.reai.ment Plant
Treatment plant
Cost
$ 200,000
? 215,000
r 350,000
$ 250,000
$' 250,000
$ 260,000
$1,665,000
$3^5,ooo
As of March
27, 19o2
Complied
Initiated later
Complied
Initiated later
Initiated letcr
Complied
Scheduled 1962
Initiated later
As of June 1,
1965
Complied
Constr Commenced
1964
Complied
Completed 1965
Under constr 1964
Complied
Complied 1964
Completed 1964
i arren
Voluntary
shtenaw County
Pe-t
i.on
1 Jayne County-Downrii •>. r
Sewage Disposal TV :jtern
Sci*vinc: Allen Park
Belleville
Bro'^mstown
Dearborn Height:
Ecorse
Lincoln Park
River Rouge
Romulus Twp.
Southyate
Taylor Twp.
Van Buren T^-rp.
V/yandotte
WRC
Agreement MDH
replacement
Treatment plant . $35,800,000
interceptors & combined
sewer separation
1957 Interceptor connec- $ 300,000
tion to Ypsilanti Ts/p.
1958 Interceptors and addns$l6,8l5,000
to plant at Wyandotte.
Abandonment of county
plants at Belleville,
County Major Airport
and Romulus Township
Under Constr. Completed 1958-1965
Inactive
Completed 1963
Scheduled for Complied
Constr 1962
O
-------
Status
Community
_ How Project Initiated
Action Agency Year
As of March
Facilities Required. Cost
As of June 1,
196?
Wayne County - Northeast Agreement
Sewage Disposal System
Serving:
E. Detroit
Grosse Pte Shores Agreement
Grosse Pointe Woods
Harper Woods
Roseville
St. Clair Shores
Wayne County - Rouge Valley
Sewage Disposal System
Serving: Order
Canton Twp.
Dearborn Heights
Garden City
Inkster
Livonia
Uankin Twp.
Horthville
Northville Twp.
1-Iovi
Plymouth
Plymouth Twp.
Bedford Tup.
Romulus Twp.
Van Buren Twp.
Wayne
MDH
MDH
1958
1958
MDH
196l
Ypsilanti
Ypsilanti Twp-
Agreement
Voluntary
MDH
Addns to interceptor $ 582^000 Under constr.
connection to Detroit
Complied 1963
Addns to interceptor $l6,815,000 Under constr Complied 1963
connection to Detroit 19<5l
19bl Treatment Plant Addns yl,500,000 Scheduled 1962 Complied 1963
Treatment Plant Addns $ 888,000
Under constr
TOTAL COST - 1950 to 1965
COST - March 19o2 - June 1, 1965
$177,6^1,500
£(.19,859,500
-------
ADDENDUM
Status
Commun i ty
Bri ghton
*Grosse Pointe Woods
How Proj
Act ion
Agreement
Voluntary
ect 1 n i t iated
Agency
MDH
MDH
Year
1956
1956
Fac i 1 i t i es Requ i red
Treatment
add! t ionc
Combi ned
plant
sewer
$
$
Cost
223,300.
859,700.
As of March
27, 1962
Completed
Completed
1959
1961
As of June 1
1965
Completed
Completed
1959
1961
and Harper Woods
* Does not include $11,810,300 for storm sewer separation.
overflow control -
connection to
Detroit system
GRAND TOTAL COST - 1950 to 1965 --$ 178,724,500.
M
O
4=-
U>
-------
1044
John E. Voght
MR. VOGT: Thank you.
Actions both voluntary by the community and
by some action of the regulatory agencies are indicated.
The estimated amount of expenditures for each
project has been added.
The magnitude of this activity is illustrated
hot only by the number of projects and communities served
but also by the amount of the expenditures. Over
$57 million had been spent during the 12 years preceding
the HEW Conference in 1962 and about $120 million
has been spent since then. This does not include over
$150 million expended during this period for projects
for relief of combined sewers which are an Important part
of the facilities for retention and control of overflows
from combined sewer systems.
As to the subject of municipal water supplies:
The City of Detroit obtains its water supply
from two sources and serves treated water to about 60
municipalities in the metropolitan area. The main
source of supply is from an intake at the head of Belle
Isle. This intake and tunnel structures have a capabili-
ty of furnishing over one billion gallons of water per
-------
1045
John E. Vogt
day through three water filtration plants at Water
Works Park, Springwells Station, and Northeast Station.
A fourth filtration plant was built in Allen
Park, known as the Southwest Plant, by the Wayne County
Road Commission and was turned over to the City of
Detroit when completed in 1964. The distribution systems
of all four plants are interconnected. In the event
of an outage of any one plant the others can still
supply water to the entire city. Such an interconnection
also exists to the City of Wyandotte.
The Southwest Plant obtains its water from an
intake in the Detroit River between Grassy Island and
Fighting Island en the Canadian side of the International
boundary 5300' from shore. This intake was installed
at the designated location based upon a comprehensive
engineering study and report submitted in 1955 by Hazen
and Sawyer, Consulting Engineers.
The plans for the Detroit Southwest intake
and water filtration plant were approved by the Michigan
Department of Health and the facilities were constructed
by the Board of Wayne County Road Commissioners only after
a comprehensive survey of water quality by the County
and its consulting engineers in 1955. (This particular
study was referred to as the "Wayne County Water Supply
-------
1046
John E. Vogt
Investigation 1955/' page IS of the Findings). A
great deal of water quality data was collected for this
survey and from time to time various conferences were
held by the consulting engineers and staffs of the Wayne
County Board of Water Commissioners, Michigan Department
of Health, and the Water Resources Commission. The
site was selected on the basis of a very satisfactory
water quality and on expected future protection,
both of which have been confirmed from operating results.
No less important and in addition to considera-
tion being given to raw water quality, appropriate atten-
tion was also directed toward the design criteria for
the treatment facilities, themselves. They are developed
in detail in the consulting engineers report entitled,
"Functional Design-Filtration and Pumping Plants
Wayne County Water Supply Project, September, 1956."
(This particular report was not referred to in the Health,
Education, and Welfare Findings.) They are summarized in
the original report on water quality. Between the two reports,
it is stated that, "These ratings are conservative and would
assure excellent water purification," and, "The special
precautions are reflected: in the provisions for heavy
prechlorinatlon, post chlorination, and dechlorination
if necessary; in the provisions for long flocculating
(40 min.) and settling times (4 fours) to assure ample
-------
1047
John E. Vogt
opportunity for the chemicals to act; in the inclusion
of activated carbon and chloride dioxide for taste and
odor control; in the use of filtration rates substantially
lower than those used successfully at Detroit; and in
the provision of automatic devices to indicate quickly
changes In raw water and filtered water quality."
Considerable flexibility in treatment and standby
facilities are included in the design and additionally
all filtered water passes through treated water storage
reservoirs which provide added chlorine contact time
before being pumped to the distribution system.
Wyandotte
The City of Wyandotte obtains its source of
water supply from the Detroit River through a 42" intake
pipe 1700' long terminating in a crib placed in a cut
in the middle ground. The treatment at the Wyandotte
Filtration Plant consists of prechlorination, chlorine
dioxide, alum and carbon with flocculation and sedimenta-
tion for pretreatment, filtration and post chlorination
and fluoridation.
The present intake, placed in operation in
July 1950, replaced an old intake in approximately the
-------
1048
John E. Vogt
same location. Prior to installing the present intake
considerable testing was done on the river water, and in
1946 on the basis of the city's request and their test
data and the recommendation of their consulting engineers,
a construction permit was issued by the Michigan Depart-
ment of Health to construct an intake 3900 feet from shore
in Canadian waters. Tests made since that time substan-
tiate the fact that these plans were sound and should
have been executed. Since 1959 several discussions were
held with the City of Wyandotte urging them to execute
the 1946 plan or an equal alternate plan in order to
provide an improved raw water quality. Another possibili-
ty was made available to the City of Wyandotte to obtain
inproved raw water by connection to the new Wayne County
intake line. The Wayne County Road Commission installed
a wye connection at the shore shaft for this express
purpose.
In 1961 the Michigan Department of Health
issued a construction permit for improved pretreatment
facilities conditioned upon the City of Wyandotte
securing an Improved quality of raw water.
Prom all information made available to us
including the data contained in the Projects report
-------
1049
John E. Vogt
Wyandotte's water supply can be improved by taking
advantage of better quality water available.
An objective analysis and evaluation of the
treatment provided at the Wyandotte water filtration
plant will bring out that bacteriological tests on
finished water at Wyandotte regularly show results which
are far superior to the drinking water standards of the
U.S.P.H.S. and moreover that extra precautions are
being taken through additional built-in safety factors
to protect the users of this supply. A few of these
extraordinary precautions over and above the normal
are as follows:
a. Chlorine residual recorder, with alarm,
on the pretreatment phase.
b. Manual tests for chlorine in addition
s
to those made by the recorder, are made throughout the
plant hourly and more frequently if changes occur,
with appropriate adjustments in chlorine application.
c. A new sedimentation basin with over
four hours detention time for future maximum flow rates.
Present detention time is 6 hours and greater.
d. Prechlorination with free chlorine
residuals which are then maintained throughout the plant
and the distribution system.
-------
1050
John E. Vogt
Monroe
Records show that the original water supply
was establishedin 1889.
MR. STEIN: Pardon me. Did you mean to
eliminate that other sentence?
MR. VOGT: Yes.
MR. STEIN: That was meant to be eliminated?
MR. VOGT: Yes.
A privately owned utility pumped untreated
water obtained from a 20" intake located about 3 miles
north of the River Raisin mouth in Lake Erie 1800 feet
from shore in approximately 25' of water. (That is',
there are 7'-12*- of water over the intake crib.) Typhoid
fever and other associated diseases were a chronic problem
at the turn of the century and thereafter until chlorina-
tion facilities were first installed in 1915, resulting
in a definite improvement. Less than ideal operation
of the supply with deficiencies in both quantity and
quality resulted in transfer of ownership to the City of
Monroe in the early twenties and the installation of a
complete filtration plant in 1924. There is evidence to
indicate that the raw water quality was affected by the
quality of water coming from the Raisin River.
-------
1051
John E. Vogt
Occasional taste problems plus relatively
high conform indices resulted in the construction of
the new intake extending 1 mile in Lake Erie at Pte.
Aux Peaux in connection with a jJant expansion in about
1950 to 8 M.G.D. There should not be any question or
implication that Influences resulting from civilization
a nd the activities of man including domestic and indus-
trial waste discharges jeopardize the safety of the
water supply provided to consumers on the Monroe water
distribution system. This statement is made with proper
recognition to the desirability of using raw water
sources of the best quality obtainable and providing
full protection from unlawful pollution.
Raw water quality in regard to MPN—the most
probable number—determined by daily tests at the Monroe
water filtration plant show averages as follows:
1961 - 745
1962 - 621
1963 - 803
1964 - 859
Median figures of monthly averages are:
1961 - 571
1962 - 385
1963 - 639
1964 - 590
-------
1052
John E. Vogt
Prom this data It is obvious that the raw
water quality at the Monroe intake is superior to that
given for water filtration plants In the "Manual of
Recommended Water - Sanitation Practice of the U. S.
Public Health Service."
Figures for chloride and total hardness are:
CI TOTAL HARDNESS
1952
1955
1957
1961
1962
1963
1964
— —
--
__
31
36
40
39
117.7
114.8
123.5
126.1
124.0
131.6
134.1
Bacteriological analyses of the treated water
clearly show the drinking water to be entirely safe by
any standards and certainly far superior to the U. S.
Public Health Service Drinking Water Standards.
-------
1053
John E. Vogt
I would now like to discuss public bathing
in the Detroit River.
The suitability of natural waters for swlnming,
water skiing, and other forms of close contact recreation
is dependent upon many characteristics of the water and
of the stream or lake which contains it. Among these
are water temperature, color, and turbidity, depth of
water, bottom materials, and physical obstructions such
as submerged rocks, deadheads, snags, etc.
The presence of sewage as determined by sanitary surveys
and confirmed by certain bacteriolotical analyses is the
principal yardstick £y which hazards to public health are
measured.
It is universally agreed among public health
investigators of bathing water quality that the sanitary
survey of sources of pollution which may reach bathing
areas provides the most reliable basis for determination
of the extent of endangerment of the public health. It
is equally well agreed that bacteriological analyses
often provide valuable information to support and supple-
ment the findings of the sanitary survey. Unfortunately,
however, as pointed out in the U. S. Public Health
Service report on bacteriological and epidemiological
studies of bathing waters of Lake Michigan entitled
"Tri-State Survey of Lake Michigan Waters (19^8)," no
-------
1054
John E. Vogt
correlation could be established between the concentra-
tion of bacteria, as determined by standard methods of
analysis, and effects on health of persons swimming in
aich waters.
This report and subsequent reports issued
by the Public Health Service recognized that it is impos-
sible to establish a numerical standard for bathing water
quality in terms of bacteriological concentration. It
is well known that many areas of the country have included
some numerical value as a guide line or objective based
upon local needs and conditions. A wide range in
values are in use by various municipalities, State
regulatory agencies, interstate compact groups, and
others. Usually these numerical parameters are based on
the most probable number per 100 ml of sample of organisms
of the coliform group although the more tedious test
for organisms of Escherichia Coli subgroup or so-called
"Fecal Coli" provides more significant information.
Even this test includes organisms found in animal as
well as human intestines. The entire coliform group
includes several subgroups found in soils and elsewhere
outside warm blooded animals, thus having no public
health significance of themselves.
Thus it is clear that the standard tests for
-------
1055
John E. Vogt
bacteriological concentration developed for these
purposes do not, of themselves, provide a reliable
measure of water quality. The effects of land wash,
certain nutrients for regrowth of the organisms and other
variables, may often yield a distorted picture of actual
conditions.
An interesting example of this is cited
in the aforementioned Tri-State Survey of Lake Michigan
Waters.
At Whiting, Indiana, samples of lake water
showed enterococcus organisms of extremely low concentration
never exceeding 3.6. To quote from the report, "coliform
densities as high as 11,000,000 were found in this area
where the water had none of the obvious characteristics
of sewage. It is postulated that the corn sugar waste
from the American Maize Products Company may induce
coliform growth in the lake itself."
This serves to emphasize the need for the
exercise of judgment based upon all of the pertinent
facts rather than some arbitrary numerical yardstick in
determining whether water quality is suitable for
swimming.
Little, if any, organized swimming is practiced
in the Detroit River. There are no public
-------
1056
John E. Vogt
beaches of any consequence on the river below Belle Isle.
Physical characteristics of the shoreline and bottom high
velocities coupled with navigational and shipping uses
make these waters generally unattractive for this purpose.
It has not been necessary, therefore, for the State or
county health departments to close beaches or take other
formal action to dissuade the public from swimming in
these waters.
That finishes my section, Mr. Chairman.
-------
1057
John Vogt
MR. STEIN: Thank you. Are there any comments
or questions?
MR. POSTON: Yes. I wondered in this
table of treatment, communities with treatment plants—
I did not have time to look that over carefully; but I
wondered, does this mean that all of the communities in
this area have secondary treatment, and that there are
no needs there then at this time?
MR. VOGT: No; this does not say that, Mr.
Poston. This states that a treatment facility is provided,
depending upon the needs as Judged by the State agencies
for that particular location.
MR. POSTON: This is a record of construction
that has taken place since 1950?
MR. VOGT: Since 1950.
MR. POSTON: And then there could be—
MR. VOGT: Actually some of the plants do
provide secondary treatment; some provide primary treat-
ment; but the tabulation does not differentiate.
MR. POSTON: I think that the communities
of Michigan can be commended that they all have treatment.
I think this is a very fine thing to have in the State.
I go down a little further and I have a
comment about Wyandotte and the recommendation that they
-------
1058
John Vogt
go to Canada for their water supply; and I wondered
whether you had any other comment on that. I think this
is one of the things that we continually get pressure
on to make our pollution work go faster and do more.
We in America are very proud of our "firsts," and to ask
that we go to Canada for a purer supply of water is not,
in my way of thinking, what we ought to be doing; and
I wondered whether you cared to comment on this further.
I notfcd that Detroit plans a new Intake
up in Lake Huron.
MR. STEIN: Let me see if I understand you.
Do you mean to say they are asking an American city to
go to Canada to get a cleaner supply of water to drink?
MR. VOGT: I think you should re-read the
report, and I think you are making some interpretations
here which are not there, because the report does not
state that the City of Wyandotte should go to Canada for
Its water supply.
We do say that there Is improved raw water
quality, or there is raw water available which is
Improved over their present raw water source available
to them; and we do not specifically say that they should
go to Canada.
-------
1059
John Vogt
MR. STEIN: What does this mean: You say
the permit was issued by the Michigan Department of Health,
reading from your report, page 15, to construct 3900
feet from shore of connecting waters—that is Canada—
and you say tests made since that time substantiate the
fact that these plans were sound and should have been
executed.
MR. VOGT: These were the recommendations
of the consulting engineers for the City of Wyandotte
and the Michigan—
MR. STEIN: But you—
MR. VOGT: May I finish, Mr. Chairman?
MR. STEIN: Yes.
MR. VOGT: —and the Michigan Department of
Health approved these recommendations; and it was
based upon the raw water quality data submitted to it.
Now, if the report and the study had shown
that actually this was where the investigation was made
and if they had investigated on this side of the Inter-
national Boundary, they might have well found a similar
quality of water. We are not going into that.
But the study was made as far out and beyond the ship
channel; and the recommendations were based upon the study
-------
1060
John Vogt
of raw water quality at that point.
MR. STEIN: I understand you, but in reading
your report, other than the engineers, you say tests
since that time substantiate the'fact that these plans
were sound and should have been executed. That is your
judgment. "Several discussions were held with the
City of Wyandotte urging them" -- I assume you people did
that — "to execute the 19*16 plan"; in other words, to go
out of the country to get drinking water for their
citizens, or an equal alternate plan, in order to provide
an improved raw water quality.
It seems odd that a State agency of a sovereign
State in this nation should recommend and urge on an
American city to have to go out of the country for a
decent water quality.
MR. VOGT: You are taking that out of context,
Mr. Chairman, because if you will read the statement
"or equal alternate plan," I think that is extremely
important. In other words, the axiom'of water supply
engineering is get the best raw water quality available
to you and then provide whatever treatment is necessary
to render it safe for drinking.
So, we took the position that the program.
-------
1061
John Vogt
should be that the best raw water quality available
should be obtained.
Now, we did not say that the only place to
find the best raw quality was on the other side of the
International Boundary. In fact, as we indicated in
the report, "or an equal alternate plan."
MR. STEIN: Where could they find equal
alternate plans on the American side? Isn't this—
you are giving them a Hobson's choice. What choice did
they have? They either had to take water—and I read
what they are doing in the plant. You have listed
viewing a visual recorder with an alarm, and annual
tests, made by the recorder hourly, about sedimentation,
four hours detention, pre-chlorination--they are taking
heroic efforts to protect their citizens because they
are taking voter from the American side. What alterna-
tive did they have except to go out of the country?
MR. VOGT: You are prejudging an investi-
gation that was not made. In other words, you are saying-
which we have not said—that acceptable raw water quality
was not available on this Side of the International
Boundary. Now, our report does not say this.
Let me ask one of my associates here if he
-------
1062
John Vogt
would like to comment further on this.
MR. STEINi Would you Identify yourself for
the record, please?
MR. VOGT: This Is Mr. C. C. Crumley,
sanitary engineer In the Division of Engineering of the
Michigan Department of Health.
MR. CRUMLEY: Just a comment on that, with
respect to the raw water quality on the American side,
as far as the Wyandotte intake or proposed intake could
be, the navigational Interests precluded the location
of an intake in certain areas of the American waters,
whereby they could not take advantage of the quality in
American waters.
MR. STEIN: Sir, I have heard—what is this
man's name from Wyandottee, Mr. Hazey? But it seems to
me that Mr. Hazey, like any other water works operator
in the country, feels that his present intake Is In a
reasonable location, and that an American City and as
an American citizen he is entitled to good water right
at that intake where it is; and I do not think I am
misrepresenting his position. Are you going to invite
him here?
MR. OEMINGi Yes; he is scheduled to appear.
-------
1063
John Vogt
MR. STEIN: As far as I understand his
position through the years, this was It. I think you
should establish that.
One more point that Mr. Poston made, and this
kind of surprises me, and I would like an explanation
of it. There is a rather detailed report, and I think
a very excellent one, on water supply situations in
various communities; but the key point that we are deal-
ing with is how the community treats its wastes, and
all we get in the table is treatment plants, treatment
plant additions, without saying what your treatment is,
primary or secondary, what the effluent is; and it seems
to me passingly strange that we have such a detailed and
complete report on water supply—and I agree with you,
Mr. Vogt, I am sure that the people here in these areas
are getting a safe potable water; but what puzzles me
is the daily operation and the dally kind of treatment
in the treatment works in the various communities.
MR. VOGT: I think, Mr. Chairman, that
it is Important here to recognize the degree or to under-
stand the degree of treatment which is provided by these
water supplies, in view of some of the statements In the
Public Health Service report Indicating that the safety
-------
1064
John Vogt
of the water supplies was in Jeopardyjand particularly
should there be a breakdown in equipment or a mal-
functioning of the treatment process, I think it was
important for us to point out the safeguards which are
built into these water treatment plants, and the operating
characteristics of them.
I think it was extremely important to give
that side of the picture in view of the statements in
the Public Health Service report, which might tend to
question the quality of treated water produced by these
plants.
MR. STEINs Well, I don't know if these
people ar® here. I have heard so much about this over
and £ver again. But as I read this and I think what you
said has—certainly I am not criticizing that you went
into the water supply plans; but I wish we had this kind
of detail on what the treatment plants were doing,
Municipal treatment plants, as you have given us in water
supply. I think, as I understand it from the invest!-
4
gators of the Federal Government, that if you have a
deteriorated raw water supply, the only thing between
that and the people are men and machines, and, as we know,
they both break down. The better the quality of the
-------
1065
John Vogt
raw water supply the better the safety factor with this
treatment.
I listened to their report, and I read it
very carefully. I did not get any implication that
the people in this area were not getting a safe potable
water.
MR. VOGT: Well, maybe we read different
things into words. Furthermore, I think we pointed
out in our report on Municipal waste treatment that
in 1962 we provided the conferees with a very complete
recitation and a very complete status of the municipal
sewage treatment plants in the area, getting into the
degree of treatment provided, et cetera, and also
stated at that time plans which were under way,
construction which was under way or pending, at these
municipalities as far as sewage treatment was concerned;
and in that report we pointed out very carefully and in
depth the degree of treatment which was provided. This
is all a matter of record. So far as this report was
concerned, we felt that all we needed to do was update the
report and confirm whether or not the plans which
we said were under way in 1962 had in fact been carried
out.
-------
1066
John Vogt
MR. STEIN: Yes, I would agree with you.
If this is the view—and reading this very interest-
ing information you have given us on water treatment
in Wyandotte, Monroe, and others, I would say if we
compared the two fields that it seems to me in your
water plants, to provide a safe potable water for the
inhabitants of this area, you would have to have the
most advanced sophistocated kind of treatment.
I wonder if you can say the same thing for
Jie waste treatment plants,that they are providing a
comparable kind of treatment measured with the status
of the art in waste treatment today as we are providing
in water treatment.
Maybe that is a rhetorical question and maybe
it answers Itself.
MR. POSTON: I had one further question.
I noted that Wyandotte has precautionary measures here
that they take,over and above the normal, recording with
alarms, tesfes for chlorine; in addition new sedimentation
basins, prechlorination—and there are four recommendations
of extra precautions there--! wonder whether the up-
stream waste plants have similar type precautions, an
alarm system to notify the water works of hazards, or
-------
106?
John Vogt
bypassing, or reduced treatment, or things like this.
MR. VOQT: Yes, they do, Mr. Poston. In
other words, there is a very close liaison between the
upstreaSt—let us say the operation at the Detroit sewage
treatment plant, that if there is some emergency
that exists in the Detroit system, the City of Wyandotte
Is advised; or if there are plans to make some changes
which might temporarily reduce the degree of treatment
for a temporary period of time, this information is
passed on in advance to the City of Wyandotte.
MR. STEIN: Have you anything else?
MR. POSTON: I understand that Detroit is
putting the new intake up in Lake Huron, or has plans to.
Is this to get away from, or to provide additional
water quality that they would like to have for the
people in this area?
MR. VOGT: I think this should more
appropriately be posed to the general manager of the
Detroit Water Board; but I think that one reason for
going to Lake Huron is that the load on the system is
more to the north of the City of Detroit; so d.t seemed
logical that, rather than pumping from way downriver up
north, you put the intake to the north side of the load.
-------
1068
John Vogt
MR. STEIN: Right. The Detroit intake
now, the major intake, is in the Canadian waters, is it
not?
MR. VOGT: Not that I know of.
MR. STEIN: That was pointed out to me
the other day, I thought.
MR. VOGT: No, sir.
MR. STEIN: No?
MR. VOGT: The southwest--
MR. STEIN: The south intake.
MR. VOGTs The southwest Intake, yes;
but the main intake is not.
MR. STEIN: One of you made intakes into
Canadian waters?
MR. VOGT: No.
MR. STEIN: No?
MR. VOGT: I think it should be clear that the
major intake in the Detroit area, which is on the Detroit
aystem is at the head of Belle Isle, and this is in
American waters, and it has a capacity for something
in excess of one billion gallons per day.
MR. STEIN: That is above the Detroit waste
discharge, isn't It?
-------
1069
John Vogt
MR. VOGT: Yes; It is at the head of the
Detroit River.
MR. STEIN: But you have a water intake
below the Detroit discharge, don't you?
MR. VOGT: Yes.
MR. STEIN: And that is in Canadian waters?
MR. VOGT: That is in Canadian waters.
MR. S TEIN: Well —
MR. VOGT: r.would like to clarify the point
which you made, which was erroneous. The Intake which
is in Canadian waters is a relatively small portion of the
intake capacity for the Detroit system* in other words,
some 150 million gallons per day, versus one thousand
million gallons per day.
MR. STEIN: I agree with you. The point
that I was making, that where Detroit had its water intake
above the source of the Detroit discharge it was in
American waters, and where it was below the point where
the sewers are discharged, they had their intake in the
Canadian waters. Do you have any questions?
MR. POSTON: I wondered whether or not
Wyandotte, according to the demand and the capacity to
apply chlorine, the demand has ever exceeded the capacity
to apply chlorine.
-------
1070
John Vogt
MR. VOGT: I would say no, Mr. Poston.
However, I do not have that Information at my fingertips.
But I think I could say no Just categorically, because
we supervise this. If, let us say, the connotation of
this question is that if this prevailed then a degraded
water would in fact be pumped to the distribution
system, there are other things that would be done before
this would prevail. For example, perhaps cutting down
on the rate of pumping during a short period of high
chlorine demand would be done if this prevailed. But
to my knowledge this has never prevailed.
MR. POSTON: When this Wyandotte water was
first put in, that was approved by the State Health
Department; that is, the existing intake?
MR. VOGT: Well, it was — you will bear in
mind in the report I pointed that out. It was approved
following the earlier study which indicated that the in-
take should in fact extend out farther into the river.
So when we approved the shorter intake line, we did
so with the understanding that, as I recall now -- and now
I am trying to recall the details of this -- with the
understanding that if a satisfactory water quality was
-------
1071
John Vogt
not obtained then appropriate changes would be made.
MR. POSTON: What I was getting at is,
do you feel then that the water quality is deteriorating,
and this is the reason that the operations or capacity—
MR. VOGT: No, we do not think that the water
quality is deteriorating, but again I go back to the
axiom of water supply engineers; that every effort should
be made to obtain the best quality of raw water avail-
able, and since there is better raw water available,
then we feel this should be obtained; but we do not feel
that the water quality has deteriorated at this point,
MR. POSTON: That is all I have, Mr. Stein.
MR. STEIN: Do you have anything else?
MR. OEMING: No.
MR. STEIN: You know, Mr. Vogt, on page 20
you mention that in Whiting, Indiana, samples or lake
waters showed endrococcus organisms with extremely low
concentrations, never exceeding 3.6. To quote from the
report, "coliform densities as high as 11 million were
found in this area where the water had none of the
obvious characteristics of sewage. It is postulated—
and you do not say who postulated—"It is postulated
that the waste from the American Mai-s« Company may induce
-------
10J2
John Vogt
conform growth In the lake, itself."
Then you say "This serves to emphasize the
need for the exercise of Judgment based upon all the
pertinent facts rather than some arbitrary numerical
yardstick In determining whether water quality is
suitable for swimming.."
I do not know if anyone disagrees with that,
but we did have a conference at Chicago several weeks ago
and the Whiting Beaches are closed for swimming.
Now, I also have a question here, and I
would like to raise this.
MR. VOGT: I think it should be pointed out
for the record that this quote is from the Public Health
Service report.
MR. STEIN: I am not arguing with it.
MR. VOGT: These are not our words.
MR. STEIN: Yes; I am not saying that.
But the point is, these people feel that there is a
danger, and this is their Judgment.
By the way, we did not, the Public Health
Service did not close fche beach. It was the Indiana
local authorities. They felt when there was a question
Involving the health of the people they Just did not
-------
1073
John Vogt
want to take a chance.
MR. VOGT: Well, this is one possibility.
The other possibility is that conditions have changed
since 19^8. Bear in mind I am referring to a study
that was conducted back in 1948. That is a few years
ago.
MR. STEIN: Yes,
MR. VOGT: And conditions could well have
changed since them.
MR. STEIN: Yes. The beaches have been
closed for a while, too, the Whiting Beaches since then.
But then you talk in terms of the significance
of fecal eoliform, and you said this test includes
organisms to be found In animals as well as human
Intestines, having no public health significance of
themselves. I think most of the professionals here
are experts in this area. Harold Clark Just died a
few weeks ago; but we do have Dr. Kabler here, and Mr.
Delwrlght, who has worked with him through the years,
and Cadwell was his supervisor. I think it is well
known that Clark has developed methods with fecal
organisms, fecal strep organisms, which permits him to
differentiate between animal and human material, and
-------
1074
John Vogt
permits him to differentiate between material coming off
from the soil. In other words, we believe now—and
the experts are here—that we can make a determination
with these fecal strep tests whether something comes
from a human, something comes from a warm-blooded animal
and a slaughter house, or these come from a field and
they were lying around a field, and this can be done, I
think, with a fair amount of precision.
MR. VOQTs Well—-
MR. OEMING: May I Interrupt?
MR. STEINt Yes.
MR. OEMINQ: Could you permit me to call Mr.
Barbour?
» MR. STEIN: Yes. Would he mind that?
MR. OEMINQ: I don't think so. You won't
mind interrupting this for a minute?
MR. VOQT: No.
MR. STEIN: There is a man who wishes to make
a statement, who has to leave, and Mr. Oemlng has asked
that he call him now.
MR. OEMINQ: Yes, Mr. Chairman, I would like
to at this time provide the opportunity to Mr. Al Barbour,
chairman of the Wayne County Road Commissioners to make
a statement. I understand he will make a statement
-------
1075
John Vogt - Al Barbour
both on behalf of the Wayne County Road Commissioners
and the Wayne County Department, of Public Works.
MR. BARBOUR: Mr. Oeming, Mr. Stein, and
Mr. Poston, I appreciate this opportunity of being
able to interrupt the proceedings, to make a statement
on behalf of the Wayne County Department of Public Works
and the Wayne County Road Commission. Let me apologize —
MR. STEIN: Can you hear him out there?
VOICES: No.
MR. STEIN: Would you mind speaking up, or
getting closer to the microphone?
MR. BARBOUR: All right. Let me indicate
to you my appreciation for allowing me to break into your
proceedings this way. We have another commitment this
afternoon, so on behalf of the Wayne County Department of
Public Works and the Wayne County Road Commission, we would
like to, as quickly and as briefly as we can, present our
statement to you from both agencies of government.
MR. STEIN: Go ahead, Mr. Barbour.
-------
1076
STATEMENT OF AL BARBOUR
MR. BARBOUR: We have reviewed the findings
and conclusions of the U. S. Public Health Service
Detroit River-Lake Erie Study and are concerned over the
damage reportedly being done to the river and the lake
by inadequately treated municipal and industrial wastes
and by combined sewer overflows.
We are aware of the widespread and long-range
impact that the Detroit River-Lake Erie System will have
on this region and are concerned over any effect that
sewage treatment plant effluent from the Wyandotte Plant
might have upon the quality of these waters.
The survey data in the report for the Wyandotte
Sewage Disposal Plant was collected, 'as the report states,
in 1963. At that time the sewage disposal plant was under-
going- extensive expansion and improvement. However,
because of its then overloaded condition, inadequately
treated sewage plant effluent was being discharged to the
4
river. The expansion has now been completed and plant
capacity is now approximately five times its former value
and as a result treatment in excess of present requirements
is now possible0
In addition, some treatment of combined storm
water and sanitary sewage from the No. 5 District,
-------
1077
Al Barbour
which would otherwise be pumped to the river, is being
provided. This treatment will be possible until such
time as the growth and development of the service area
require all plant capacity for treatment of domestic and
industrial wastes.
The Rouge River in the Middle Rouge District
and Ecorse Creek in the Down River District are the
principal surface water channels in the areas served
by the DPWs facilities. Because of combined sewers
discharging storm water-sanitary sewage mixtures to these
streams during the time of storm, the facilities
constructed by this Board are unable to further control
or improve the quality of the water in these two streams.
The Board of Public Works of Wayne County
is prepared to take further steps to improve the degree
of treatment at the Wyandotte Plant by several means.
We propose to donduct surveys of the service area to de-
termine whether it is possible to control at their source,
certain toxic materials found in the effluent. We also
propose to investigate the use of chemical precipitation
to further improve the performance of the existing faci-
lities. In this manner we hope to achieve results
approaching the desirable standards set forth in the
report.
-------
10?8
Al Barbour
The County has constructed sanitary inter-
ceptor sewers and disposal plant expansion amounting to
$36 million and in the last three years has constructed,
on behalf of its municipalities, approximately $6 million
of extensions to local systems.
The Board of Public Works of Wayne County is
anxious to do its part in making certain that the waters
of the Detroit River and Lake Erie are so used that the
greatest benefit to the greatest number of people will
result and their availability for future users will be
unimpaired.
-------
1079
STATEMENT NO. 2
BY MR. AL BAKBOUR
MR. BARBOUR: The Detroit River and Lake
Erie must be viewed as a very important natural
resource, constituting, as they do, the outlet for more
than 2/3 of the largest fresh water resource in the world.
The conservation of such a natural resource is certainly
in the national interest; and the people of Michigan,
remembering the destruction by Improper use of the great
^timber resources of the lower peninsula certainly do not
wish to bear the responsibility for the destruction of
another natural resource, a most vital water resource,
which is now in jeopardy.
The Detroit River and Lake Erie are affected
by a number of phenomena both natural and artificial,
which are changing the characteristics of the lake. The
natural phenomena bringing about gradual changes in the
lake are the short-range and long-range variations in
weather cycles and changes in the character of the water-
shed by virtue of long-range geological and climatic
cycles.
Lake St. Clair is probably a smaller version
of the future condition of Lake Erie with a delta formation
at the mouth of the St. Clair River and a shallow water
-------
1080
Al Barbour
depth resulting from deposition of material transported
by the St. Clair River. The wind and current action in
Lake St. Clair will continue to cause material from its
bottom to be suspended in the water as it leaves Lake
St. Clair, and on occasion the entire Detroit River as
it passes to Lake Erie will be discolored by this turbidity.
In addition to thse natural phenomena, changes
in the character of the watershed of the Great Lakes
will result in changes in quantity and quality of
the water, itself, and will contribute to the gradual
changing of the characteristics of the Detroit River and
Lake Erie.
-------
108l
Al Barbour
As the economy of the region changes from
predominantly agricultural to largely municipal and
industrial, the runoff of surface water is altered.
Streams discharging to the lakes experience greater
extremes of high water level and low rate of flow and
in times of high flow the high velocities carry surface
wash from streets and highways, parking lots, roofs, and
other impervious surfaces and from fields and pastures,
where once these same streams carried only the natural
runoff from the forest land. These natural factors
and phenomena contribute to the gradual change in the
character of the waters of Detroit River and Lake Erie
and over these there can be no control. The un-natural
factors, however, contribute significantly and dangerously
to the accelerated change in character of Lake Erie are
subject to control and if minimized, can prolong for many
centuries the life of Lake Erie as we now know it.
At the March, 1962, conference on the pollution
of Detroit River and Lake Erie, Wayne County informed
the conference that it had at that time completed f
financing arrangements for the construction of interceptor
sewer facilities and treatment plant expansion to bring
the operation and maintenance of the county systems
-------
1082
Al Barbour
well within the requirements of the State of Michigan.
This construction program has since been essentially
completed. The Wyandotte and Trenton Sewage Plant survey
data obtained during the course of the study by the U.S.
Public Health Service was from sewage plants in the
process of being enlarged, but which at that time were
overloaded and were discharging improperly treated
effluent to the Detroit River. Since the publication
of the survey, the U. S. Public Health Service has
returned to the county plants at Wyandotte and Trenton
for the purpose of continuing the survey with these
plants in their present operating condition.
The construction program described at the
1962 conference which included interceptors and treatment
plant expansion totalling $36 million has been completed.
In addition, Wayne County has constructed or has under
contract, on behalf of its municipalities, $17 million
worth of facilities to extend local systems into areas
now dependent upon septic tanks. All sewage treatment
plants operated by the county have been expanded to
a
provide primary treatment capacity for at least 100 per
cent in excess of the present connected population.
Wayae County has recognized that problems of
public health know no political boundary and has made
-------
1083
Al Barbour
capacity available in its systems for areas outside
of Wayne County and has offered to continue this policy
in areas now now served. Its master plan for
future interceptor and treatment facilities contemplates
service to adjoining counties and these counties have
been informed of this master plan.
It is the position of the Wayne County Road
Commission that in view of the foregoing factors and
circumstances, the need and desirability of a more adequate
degree of sewage treatment is apparent; and that it is
recognized that secondary treatment, perhaps not as now
defined, but as some process more sophisticated
and advanced than present methods to achieve safe, proper
and adequate treatment and disposal of sewage is
required; and that this Board is prepared to undertake
steps to achieve this goal.
To this end it is proposed to conduct a survey
with the objective of location and control at the source
of sewage elements not susceptible to ordinary treatment
methods. It is also proposed to investigate, with a
view toward installation and use, newly marketed chemical
aids, and to consider possible modifications of present
plant to approach as nearly as possible the desired
treatment goals.
-------
1084
Al Barbour
It is further recognized that the action
taken by the Wayne County Board of Supervisors in 1955
stipulating the construction of separate sanitary sewer
systems was the first step toward ultimate separation
of storm water from sanitary sewage and that most
existing combined sewer systems are overloaded and in
need of relief; and, accordingly, this Board has embarked
upon a policy and program of construction of separate
storm sewers and of removing highway drainage from
combined sewer systems.
It is acknowledged that no combined sewer
system can be free from the danger of flooded basements
and the attendant health hazard and individual, rather
than municipal, financial loss.
The next step in a program of ultimate
separation of storm and sanitary sewage should be that
construction of relief facilities for existing combined
sewer systems take the form of diversion of storm water
from combined sewer systems to separate outlets, permitting
the retention and treatment of ever-increasing volumes
of storm water-sewage mixtures from existing combined
systems and ever-increasing reductions in the number,
extent, and duration of overflows to the Detroit River and
its tributaries.
-------
1085
Al Barbour
It is further the position of this Board
that the doctrine of "nobody else does anything about it,
why should we?" has no application here, and that the
Industrial treatment plants and processes of waste
control must proceed on a parallel rather than a leading
or following schedule of correcting and improving
programs.
It is in the interest of all parties to
agree upon and to proceed at once to accomplish what is
p resently possible and to plan ^ future actions to preserve
to the extent of present and future abilities, the waters
of the Detroit River for the most beneficial use of
present and future generations.
-------
1086
Al Barbour - John Vogt
MR. STEIN: Thank you very much, Mr. Barbour,
for an excellent statement. I think if every city and
industry had the attitude you represent I would be out of
a Job.
MR. BARBOUR: Thank you very much.
MR. OEMINQ: Thank you.
MR. STEIN: All right. Do you want to continue
with Mr. Vogt?
MR. OEMING: Yes.
MR. STEIN: Do you have any comment, Mr. Vogt?
I am sorry for the interruption.
MR. VOGT: That is perfectly all right, Mr.
Chairman. I think this discussion has been very
interesting and stimulating, and I think it serves to
emphasize the point which was ultimately brought out this
morning in the questions which were submitted to the
two Public Health Service investigators, Mr. Vaughan
and Mr, Harlow, where at the end of the discussion it
was emphasized that in making a judgment as to whether
or not a particular area was safe for swimming they used
other factors than merely a particular number or a
particular coliform Index, and this was the point which
we desired to make in our presentation here.
-------
108?
John Vogt
MR. STEIN: I think this Is a fair statement,
and I think your point is well taken, Mr. Vogt. I have
Just a couple of small clarifying questions. Indications
that we have had In Washington, and, you know, we kind
of keep a docket on all these cases, and keep clipping
them, but through the years we have read newspaper
reports about Monroe having tast£ and odor problems in
their water Intake. Is there anything to that, or does
t his still exist?
MR. VOGT: Well, I think a lot of communities
that use surface sources of water supply for a water
treatment plant have various taste and odor problems
due to a variety of reasons,, and I think Monroe has taste
and odor problems occasionally, but certainly this does
not prevail routinely.
MR. STEIN: It rarely does.
MR. VOGT: Sir?
MR. STEIN: It rarely does in any city.
This is part of the taste and odor situation. In most
communities it is Intermittent, and we do have a problem.
I think this Is present throughout the country. Some
areas have constant taste and odor problems; but most
communities do have intermittent problems.
MR. VOGT: Most of those that have a surface
source of supply to their water treatment plant.
-------
1088
John Vogt
For example, we In Lansing have a well-water
supply which Is softened, and we have a very uniform
quality with no objectionable taste and odor at any time.
Now, even In Detroit, or even in Chicago, or I
presume In Washington, where you are familiar with it,
these water utilities have taste and odor problems.
MR. STEIN: That is right, but the point is—
MR. VOGT: So, I don't know what point you
are making here»
MR. STEIN: If the taste and odor problem is
due to a discharge, and we have this in Chicago, I think
they have been on record for years, and their record is
clear; Chicago puts out a superb quality of water.
As a matter of fact, where you get the inter-
mittent problem is where you get the complaints. Generally
speaking, when you have a specific taste and odor problem
as bad as it is, if it is not too bad, the people kind
of get used to the taste and smell of the water; but
where they are accustomed to a relatively good water,
if a taste and odor shows up, the telephone at the water
works begins ringing, and at the Mayor's office, and
the complaints come pouring in.
The complaint in Chicago was that there was
-------
1089
John Vogt
a taste and odor problem attributable to industrial
discharges in Indiana, and they wanted it stopped.
The question I am raising here is if Monroe has taste
aid odor problems, this isn't Just something that generally
speaking we Ignore in a case of this kind. If this
is related to an upstream discharge we should know about
it, and see if corrective actions can be taken. This
is the point I make.
MR. VOGT: I don't know whether we know whether
it is due to upstream discharge nor do I know from the
findings whether this has pinpointed it or not, either.
MR. STEM: This is the point we are making.
Now, you did speak about averages and medians of conforms
at Wyandotte and Monroe water intakes. How about the
subsequent streams?
MR. VOGT: I do not have that data with me,
Mr. Stein.
MR. STEIN: Well, I meant, I am not Just talking
about this data,but I noted this in the Government report,
too. I think very often we can get them this way,
by medians or averages in these counts in water pollution
control, because you may have a fairly good average on a
beach, and if the conforms or the bacteria counts are
-------
1090
John Vogt
so high, say for eleven days In August, you close that
beach for swiming. The fact that you have a pretty good
average on a year-round basis doesn't speak very well.
I think the extremes are the things we might keep our
eye on sometimes, and seeing to what extent we have these
extremes*
MR. VOGT: Well, certainly, Mr. Chairman, we
do have that data, and we do keep our eyes on it, and if
«e were concerned we would do something about it, of
course, obviously.
MR. STEINt Yes. Are there any other questions
or comments?
MR. BOSTON: No questions.
MR. OEMING: No questions.
MR. STEINs Thank you very much, Mr. Vogfct
for a very illuminating talk.
MR. OEMXNQ: Mr. Chairman, I expect you are
going to call a recess and I would like to point out,
before you do, I would like to resume with the conclusion
of the presentation of the balance of the report by Mr.
Purdy upon resumption of the conference, and if possible,
1 f you wish to spend a little time, we could take care
of a couple of statements, and I know that the
-------
1091
John Vogt
County Health Department is here, and I think the Lake
Erie Clean-Up Committee. They might be taken out of
order, but to save time, we can use the day to its best
advantage.
MR. STEIN: This time is yours. Now, you
call you?people as you wish. If you want to call them
before Mr. Purdy, fine, or after.
MR. OEMING: I want to finish Mr. Purdy
first.
MR. STEIN: I would think that that would be
right, but this is your choice. We shall stay recessed
for ten minutes.
(Whereupon a ten-minute recess was taken.)
MR. STEIN: May we reconvene, Mr. Oeming?
MR. OEMING: Mr. Chairman, Mr. Poston, at
this time I would like to call again on Mr. Purdy to
complete the State Report presentation.
-------
1092
Ralph Purdy
MR. PURDY: This section deals with the
status of industrial waste treatment and control.
The report made at the first conference
sets forth the program of the Water Resources Commission
to control pollution from industrial sources in the
river basins of the southeastern Michigan region. It
described In general terms the principal waste consti-
tuents and recited the types of actions taken by the
Water Resources Commission and its predecessor Stream
Control Commission. That portion of the Industrial
waste treatment and control chapter pertaining directly
to the industries named in the report published by
the Secretary of Health, Education, & Welfare has
been updated for this conference. Status as of June .1,
1965, is as follows:
ALLIED CHEMICAL CORPORATION.
The General Chemical Division
No significant changes in treatment and
control methods.
Plastics Division
No significant changes in treatment and
control methods.
-------
1093
Ralph Purdy
Semet-Solvay Division
No significant changes in treatment and
control methods.
Solvay Process Division
Treatment and control methods have been improved,
Measures have been taken to reduce the possibility of
accidental oil losses and to eliminate periodic discharges
caused by spills or lime losses.
AMERICAN AGRICULTURAL CHEMICAL COMPANY
The Water Resources Commission has notified
the company that additional pH controls should be con-
sidered. No significant changes in treatment and
control methods.
AMERICAN CEMENT CORPORATION
Peerless Cement Company
The Water Resources Commission has notified
the company that suspended solids are a significant waste
constituent in their effluent. No significant changes
in treatment and control methods.
ANACONDA AMERICAN BRASS COMPANY
No significant changes in treatment and
-------
1094
Ralph Purely
control methods.
ARCHER-DANIELS - MIDLAND COMPANY
Ceased operations at Wyandotte location.
CHRYSLER CORPORATION
Chemical Division and Amplex Division
No significant changes in treatment and
control methods.
Trenton Engine Plant
No significant changes in treatment and control
methods.
CONSOLIDATED PACKAGING CORPORATION (FORMERLY
CONSOLIDATED PAPER COMPANY
North Side Division
The Water Resources Commission has notified
the company that the biochemical oxygen demand of its
effluent is a major burden upon the limited resources
of the Raisin River. No significant changes in
treatment and control methods. straw processing
operations were discontinued in 1962.
-------
1095
Ralph Purdy
South Side Diviaion
De-Inking operations have been essentially
eliminated reducing waste loading to the river. The
Water Resources Commission has notified the company that
settleable solids losses are substantial and that the
biochemical oxygen demand of its effluent represents a
major load for the limited resources of the Raisin
River. No significant changes in treatment and
control methods.
West Side Division
Operations to case July 31, 1965.
DANA CORPORATION
The Water Resources Commission has notified
the company that the oil content in their waste effluent
was slightly above the objective sought by the Inter-
national Joint Commission. No significant changes in
treatment and control methods.
DARLING AND COMPANY
The Water Resources Commission has notified
the company that the biochemical oxygen demand and
coliform content of its effluent required their attention.
Treatment and control methods have or will be improved by:
-------
1096
Ralph Purdy
a. Handling of dead stock has been reduced
from about 60 to 3 animals per day.
b. Chlorine feed equipment is on order.
c. Plans are being prepared for the recon-
struction of present settling basins and the addition
of a chlorine contact chamber.
DETROIT EDISON COMPANY AND POWER REACTOR DEVELOPMENT COMPANY
No significant changes in treatment and
control methods.
E. I. DU PONT DE NEMOURS AND COMPANY, INCORPORATED
Industrial and Biochemicals Department
Pilot plant studies are under way to develop
new methods for reducing acid content of wastes.
FIRESTONE TIRE AND RUBBER COMPANY
Firestone Steel Products Division
The Water Resources Commission has notified
the company that the iron concentration in its waste
effluents exceeds the objective sought by the inter-
rational Joint Commission and that the pH of the effluent
has lower than the minimum objective. No significant
changes in treatment and control methods.
-------
1097
Ralph Purdy
FORD MOTOR COMPANY
Metal Stamping Division - Monroe
The Water Resources Commission has notified
the company that cyanide losses exceeded the limit imposed
by Commission Order. Treatment and control methods have
been improved by process changes and improved control
of chemical handling .
Rouge Plant - Dearborn
The Water Resources Commission has notified
the company of the need for additional oil recovery
facilities. Treatment and control methods have, or will
be improved by:
a. Two new floating skimmers have been
placed at the Roulo Creek outlet.
b. A boat and motor together with an
additional floating skimmer has been located in the boat
slip area to clean away floating oil that may accumulate
in the bo&t slip or turning basin.
c. Plans are being developed to install a
temporary floating skimmer in the Rouge River below the
Gate 11 outlet until other permanent measures can be
developed.
-------
1098
Ralph Purely
FUEL OIL CORPORATION
Evaluation of effluent quality disclosed
need for reduction of oil losses. Company subsequently
suspended its operations at this site.
GREAT LAKES STEEL CORPORATION
Blast Furnace Division
The Water Resources Commission has directed
the company's attention to the. waste phenols, iron,
susperided and settleable solids, and grease and oils
in their effluent. Treatment and control methods have
been improved. Clarifiers have been rebuilt, waste vol-
umes have been reduced and in-plant process controls have
been instituted.
Great Lakes Steel Corp. Ecorse Mill
The Water Resources Commission has notified
the company that substantial quantities of iron, suspended
and settleable solids and oils and grease are lost
to the river from mill operations. Additional oil removal
facilities have been provided and other major processing
changes are under way, including additional waste
treatment facilities.
-------
1099
Ralph Purdy
Great Lakes Steel Corp. Hot Strip Mill
The Water Resources Commission has called
the company's attention to the oil and suspended solids
contained in the effluent. Extensive studies havo been
made and are continuing to determine methods for
improvement of effluent quality.
KOPPERS COMPANY
Tar and Coal Division
Processing operations have ceased at this
location.
MC LOUTH STEEL COMPANY
Gibralter Plant
The Water Resources Commission has notified
the company of the need for better pH control of its
effluent and reduced iron, oil, and suspended solids
losses. Treatmen-c and control of methods have been
improved by redesign of equipment to reduce acid losses
and by additional settling and neutralization facilities.
Trenton Plant
Staff has continued to seek improved waste
control at this plant. Treatment and control methods
-------
1100
Ralph Purdy
have been improved by changing to high grade lime for
acid neutralization. More reliable operation of the
waste treatment plant has been established by the
installation of standby equipment at critical locations
within the system and by training operators and supervisors
in the importance of proper operation of the treatment
facilities.
MOBIL OIL COMPANY
The Water Resources Commission has notified
the company that oil losses should be reduced and that
phenol concentration in the effluent exceeded the objective
sought by the international joint commission. Treatment
and control methods have been improved by re-routing of
waste streams for more efficient use of existing waste
treatment facilities and by in-plant process changes.
MONROE AUTO EQUIPMENT COMPANY
No significant changes in treatment and con-
trol methods.
MONSANTO CHEMICAL COMPANY
The Water Resources Commission has called
the Company's attention to its phosphate and suspended
-------
1101
Ralph Purdy
solids losses to the river. Treatment and control
methods have been improved by the addition of a third
settling lagoon and by in-plant changes to reduce raw
material and product losses.
PARKE-DAVIS AND COMPANY
No significant changes in treatment and control
methods.
PENNSALT CHEMICALS CORPORATION
East Plant
The Water Resources Commission has called the
company's attention to the chloride, suspended solids, and
chlorine losses to the river. No significant changes
in treatment and control methods. However, studies are
under way.
West Plant
The Water Resources Commission has notified
the company that the phenol concentration of its effluent
exceeds the objective sought by the International Joint
Commission and also their attention was directed to
suspended solids losses. No significant changes in
waste treatment or control methods; however, studies are
under way.
-------
1102
Ralph Purdy
REVERE COPPER AND BRASS, INCORPORATED
The Water Resources Commission has notified
the company of the need to reduce oil losses. No
significant changes in treatment and control methods.
SCOTT PAPER COMPANY
The Water Resources Commission has notified
t he company of a need for a reduction of suspended solids
in its waste effluent. Treatment and control methods
have been improved by:
a. Changing to the purchase of peeled
pulpwood only,
b. Re-use of water.
c. Installation of new screens.
d. Reduction in lime usage.
SHAWINIGAN RESINS CORPORATION
Treatment and control methods have been improved
by the construction of a new settling lagoon.
UNION BAG - CAMP PAPER COMPANY
River Raisin Paper Company Division
The Water Resources Commission has notified
-------
1103
Ralph Purely
the company that there 1.3 a need for additional treat-
ment facilities to improve tne wa-cer quality of
the Raisin River. No significant changes In treatment
and control methods.
UNITED STATES RUBBER COMPANY
Wo significant changes in treatment and
control methods.
WYANDOTTE CHEMICALS CORPORATION
North Plant
The Water Resources Commission has directed
the company's attention to the chloride and suspended
solids contained in its waste effluent. Treatment and
control methods have or will be improved by:
a. A calcium chloride recovery plant has
been constructed.
b. Additional waste streams will be diverted
to the Fighting Island settling lagoons.
'c. Better maintenance and control of waste
control facilities of the coKe plant.
South Plant
New propylene oxide plant placed in operation
with restrictions on waste effluent quality extablished
-------
1104
Ralph Purdy
by an Increased use Order of Determination issued
May 24, 1962, by the Water Resources Commission. The
principal waste sources are liming tower bottoms and
caustic scrubber bottoms. Control facilities necessary
to comply with the Order requirements were installed
coincident with start of operations. Liming tower wastes
are pumped to the Fighting Island settling lagoons.
Treatment and control methods for other plant sources
have been improved as the result of:
a. The "A" section of the glycol plant has
been shut down with subsequent reduction of oil losses.
b. Liming tower and cracking wastes have been
diverted to the Fighting Island settling lagoons.
c. The dry ice plant has ceased operation.
In addition, studies are under way to
reduce chloride losses from the Mercury chlorine cells.
-------
1105
Ralph Purdy
MONITORING OF AREA WATERS
Patrols of the entire Detroit River and the
lower Rouge River were initiated in August I960.
Observations are made, as long as weather permits, from
a radio-equipped powerboat. Originally during adverse
weather, observations were made from an automobile at
vantage points along the shore. Since the winter of
1962, routine observations have been made during
the winter months from a helicopter. Observations of
unusual or objectionable waste discharges or river
conditions are reported immediately to the offender
and are further followed up by the Michigan Water
Resources Commission District Engineer.
In March 1963 a water quality monitoring
program was established on each of twenty-eight drainage
basins in the lower Peninsula. Samples are collected by
Water Resource Commission personnel at each station on,
as nearly as possible, a bi-weekly schedule.
The results of the analyses at these stations
serve to provide information for evaluating pollution
abatement needs. The results are published each year
on a calendar-year basis. Three rivers are sampled in
the Detroit-Monroe areas, and these are:
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1106
Ralph Purdy
1. Raisin River In the middle of the
dredged channel opposite the city dump at Monroe.
2. Huron River at the River Road
Bridge, 3.5 miles southeast of Rockwood.
3. Rouge River at the Detroit, Toledo,and
Ironton Railroad Bridge to Zug Island,
-------
1107
Ralph Purdy
SUMMARY
The Michigan Water Resources Commission and
the Michigan Department of Health efforts combined with
that of the Commission member agencies, in reducing
pollution of Michigan waters as needed have been identified
and outlined in the first report of the State and by this
report. This has been accomplished by fact-finding,
counseling, persuasion, and where necessary, the exercise
of procedures authorized by statute. The Health
Commissioner has withheld construction permits for new
public sewer systems or extensions to existing systems.
He has exercised due care to see that sewage systems are
properly planned, constructed and operated. He has
classified the waste water treatment plants and required
that the operator in responsible charge of each plant be
certified as to competency and operation of plants of that
class, and he has required each community operating
sewage system to submit sucn records as he considers
necessary to show adequacy of the performance.
Conferences to show why pollution has not been
abated have been held before the Water Resources Commission,
New or Increased pollution has been prevented by Orders
of Determination and existing pollution has been abated
-------
1108
Ralph Purdy
by the Final Orders of Determination, "both Issued by the
¥ater Resources Commission pursuant to its statutory
authority. Orders and agreements of the State Health
Commissioner have been equally effective. ¥here com-
pliance was not forthcoming, the Water Resources Commission
and Health Commissioner have sought and have obtained
enforcement in the courts through referral of the
defaulted Order or agreement to the Attorney General,
The Secretary cff Health, Education, and
Welfare has, through the study and report, assisted
the State of Michigan by identifying the sources of
pollution going into the Detroit River and Michigan
waters of Lake Erie, and by providing quantitative data
on present water quality. Such additional controls
as are necessary to meet the requisites of Michigan statutes
will be required.
-------
1100
Ralph Purdy
MR. STEIN: Thank you, Mr. Purdy, for an
excellent statement. Are there any comments or questions?
MR. POSTON: I do not have any at this time.
MR. STEIN: I think I will Just ask one
clarifying question here. In some of tht industries you
have made recommendations or notification to them?
MR. PURDY: Yes, sir.
MR. STEIN: Other industries this isn't stated.
Does the lack of that statement have any significance?
MR. PURDY: If we have made a recommendation
for additional waste treatment facilities, it would be
stated.
MR. STEIN: In some cases it was not?
MR. PURDY: In that case we have not made
a statement to the Industry since the March 1962, con-
ference that additional controls were necessary.
MR. STEIN: This does not necessarily mean
that the situation in that industry is satisfactory, or
one way or the other; the absence of such?
MR. PURDY: It means with the information that
we had available to us at that time that a need for
additional controls had not been identified.
MR. STEIN: Thank you. This is for clarifica-
-------
Ralph Purdy 1110
tion: On page 21, under Allied Chemical Corp., this
Is the Solvay Process Division, there is no indication
that you notified the company; yet, it says "Treatment
and control methods have been improved." Did they
Just do this voluntarily?
MR. PURDY: This is on a voluntary cooperative
basis.
MR. STEIN: Without your asking them?
MR. PURDY: Without our formal notification.
MR. STEIN: Thank you.
Are there any further questions?
MR. QEMINGh No.
MR. STEIN: All right; thank you very much.
MR. OEMING: Mr. Stein, at this time I would
like co provide the opportunity for a statement to be
presented by the Macomb County Health Department. I
believe Mr. Merlin E. Damon is here to present a short
statement.
MR, DAMON: For the record, I am Merlin Danon,
Sanitary Engineer with the Macomb county Health Department,
Mr. Chairman and conferees, the Macomb County
Health Department wishes to submit the following statement
for the record:
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1111
Merlin Damon
As was previously stated in March 1962, this
department along with the governmental officials of this
county have been concerned with the abatement of water
pollution. We believe this is apparent from the report
of the findings of the Federal survey which indicate
that water quality at the head of the Detroit River
appears to be of high quality other than following periods
of storm runoff.
Further, we believe our past records of
accomplishments in the field of pollution control speak
for themselves. Since the conference in 1962 many mil-
lions of dollars have been spent and allocated for
continued pollution control work in the Macomb County
area.
Although realizing that the Federal installa-
tion at Selfridge Air Force Base was not within the
boundaries of this survey, we would appreciate receiving
factual data relating to sewage discharges from their
main sewage treatment plant in addition to sewage discharges
from other installations on the base. These requests are
based on need for answers to the numerous citizen com-
plaints received from the surrounding area by our
department.
-------
1112
Merlin Damon
As -was stated In 1962, we are continuing to
give attention to the matter of pollution relating to
watercraft, ranging in size from the small boats3 used
for recreational purposes, to the Great Lakes and ocean-
going vessels.
Again we wish to thank you for this
opportunity to state our position and assure you of our
interest and continued desire to control water pollution.
MR. STEIN: Thank you, Mr. Damon. Let us see
if we can find out about Selfridge Air Base. Do you know
about that?
MR. POSTON: Is Mr. Todd A. Gayer here?
Could you tell us about Selfridge? Come up. We would
like to know about the Selfridge Air Force Base and the
treatment facilities and their discharges.
MR. GAYER: I don't know this off the top of
my head. We do have this information available.
MR. STEIN: Is the information available?
MR. GAYER: Yes, the report has been made
and it' is on file with the Michigan Water Resources
Department.
MR. OEMING: No, we do not have it.
MR. STEIN: They don't seem to.
-------
1113
Todd Gayer
You do not have it. This obviously looks
like we are dealing with many layers of many organiza-
tions — I almost said bureaucracies. I think the issue
here is, "Let us make an effort." Mr. Gayer, will you
take it upon yourself to be sure that if Michigan has it
-- unless you have some objection -- I think the normal
operation is that Mr. Damon should get that from your
office and deal with your office on this, unless you
want him to deal with us directly. How do you want to
handle it?
MR. OEMING: Let us let this be decided later.
If Mr. Gayer gets this information, this report,
arrangements can be made — and let us know -- arrange-
ments can be made to see that the information gets to the
people.
MR. STEIN: All right. We shall make the
report available and we shall check. Now, if the report
is not available, or you cannot get it for some reason,
we shall let you know, too, and we shall get it
because we want this. I believe it is available.
MR. GAYER: It has been completed.
MR. POSTON: I think this could be obtained
this afternoon, could it not?
MR. OEMING: No. We are talking about
-------
Todd Gayer
two separate things, Mr. Poston. I think what Mr.
Damon was talking about was operating reports for
the sewage treatment facilities at the Air Force Base.
This is the routine operating reports.
MR. DAMON: This is correct, plus there are
Army installations on the base that are not connected,
to the best of my knowledge, to the Air Force Base sewage
treatment facilities, and I am interested in what happens
to these, because we have some serious thoughts about
these. It is not only the sewage treatment.
MR. GAYER: We do not receive operating records
from any of the Federal installations.
MR. STEIN: No, I don't think we do have
that.
MR. GAYER: This would go in to the Surgeon
General of the Air Force operation.
MR. STEIN: Do you have a question that there
may be a pollution problem from the base?
MR. DAMON: Yes, we do.
MR. STEIN: I don't want to give you a
wrong impression on this or what we are goine to get
for you. If you have a question that there may be a
pollution problem from the base, we shall investigate that,
*ork on that with the State, and attempt to get a
-------
1115
Todd Gayer
report, if available, and we shall give you our analysis
of the pollution problem. I do not want to say
to you that we can get you operation reports, because
we do not have them. I do not want to make a commitment
to say that we can give you what we don't have in our
files. Anything we have in our files on the Federal
installation, other than anything that is confidential
or secret for national security reasons, is available
to you; but we do not have that. We shall at least
gpt enough information so that a satisfactory conclusion
can be made whether they are causing the problem, and
if they are, we shall surely take steps to see that they
correct it.
MR. DAMON: Thank you.
MR. OEMING: Mr. Stein, may I make a commenu
here? I do not know whether this might result in
some recrimination, but the State Health Department
advises me that they get reports from some Air Force
bases of sewage treatment plant operations. Apparently
this is not a policy that applies uniformly at all bases;
and in the Selfridge Air Force base they cannot get the
reports.
MR. STEIN: May I go off the record here?
I shall be glad to talk, but I do not want to be the
-------
1116
Todd Gayer
spokesman for the Air Force.
MR. OEMING: Tes.
MR. STEIN: Or another Federal agency.
n
(Discussion off the record.)
MR. STEIN: You have to recognize that
many Federal installations, in carrying out Federal
functions do not recognize State authority. Some of
them do that as a matter of policy and let you have
these reports. Some of them do not. It is kind of
hard for us to get them to do f-hat. By the way, we
have had this, and you can see the implications in the
policy if you will bear with me for a moment, and under-
stand this.
We have had certain States where they have
wanted our doctors and our engineers to be licensed and
registered under the State laws that we had the installa-
tions in. Obviously, in running a Federal establishment
you cannot assume that kind of a requirement, with the
way we shift people and have to carry out the Federal
functions. Of course, this has been steadfastly
maintained, and the courts, of course, have supported it.
Some of the people in charge of the installations take
the Constitutional requirement very strongly. As a
-------
1117
matter of fact, if we did not have -- and I don't know how
many of you fellows have gone around the Army or Air Force
and Naval bases — but if we did not have a strong,
energetic man at the top of it, you wouldn't want them in
their Jobs, and this fellow is not too amenable sometimes
to providing these kinds of reports to State authorities
which he doesn't feel have Jurisdiction over them.
This is why the Congress has given up the
authority and they had to give it up. Very often the
State cannot get it and we get it, and when we get it,
it is a matter of public information.
We shall be glad to cooperate with you on
this, and I Just ask that you look at the complete picture
and try to work with us.
Now> we have never yet found that -=• and I am
talking in terms of pollution problems, aside from
Jurisdictional and other problems -- but as far as a
pollution problem we have never found a practical
situation with a Federal installation that we could not
come to a reasonable agreement with the installation and
the State authorities. I expect we shall be able to
do that here with a little work> but I do not want to
guarantee you that an individual post commander is going
-------
1118
Merlin Damon - John Chasesa
to supply you with reports; because we have been
unsuccessful in that in the past, but we shall get the
situation resolved.
MR. DAMON: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
At this time I would like to call on the Lake Erie Clean-
\
Up Committee of Newport, Michigan, to make a statement,
Mr. John Chases^, is he here?
While lie is coming up, Mr. Chairman, I
neglected to announce that copies of the State report
that was presented by Mr. Vogt and Mr. Purdy are available
if anyone wishes them. I don't know where they are
at the moment, but there is a supply of them around
here. They are ov€fr here on this side along this
aisle.
MR. CMSCSA: Mr. Boston, Mr. Stein, Mr.
Oeming, and conferees, and ladies and gentlemen:
I did not expect to make a large report. The last time
I did in 1962 it seemed to be quite a lengthy one.
This time I am going to try to refrain from reading as
much of it as 'I have here, but I shall turn it over to
t he conferees as their property after I am through.
MR. STEIN: Mr. Chasesa, do you want the
whole report to appear in the record as if read?
MR. CHASCSA: As much of it as you feel—
-------
1119
John Chasesa
MR. STEIN: Well, how long is it?
MR. CHASCSA: It is only a couple of pages.
MR. STEIN: We shall print the whole thing.
MR. CHASCSA: Yes; but I do have additional
copies of reports that were submitted to me by other
member groups of the Lake Erie Clean-Up Organization.
MR. STEIN: Without objection, we shall include
those in the record.
MR. CHASCSA: But I would rather not reau
those. They are lengthy and technical.
MR. STEIN: No; you can submit them and they
will appear.
MR. CHASCSA: Thank you. First of 'all, I
would like to show you a picture here of what Sterling
State Park looks like today. You people cannot see
this. There is a bulldozer and about a half a dozen people
cleaning up the beach. That is the way it looks today.
In the June 23, 1962, issue of the Monroe News
it showed a picture of Sterling State Park as it was at
that time. There were several hundred people here in
the picture, and I am sure if there should be someway
to get it to you you would notice the difference.
After listening to all this talk up here
-------
1120
John Chasosa
about the possibility of the Lake not being polluted,
the River not being polluted, I think these pictures
alone would substantiate this. Also, I am going to
include this little clipping here, "Swimming Pools make
a Big Splash in Michigan." It is a heck of a lot better
to swim In chlorinated water than it is in water that
the good Lord made for us.
As President of the Lake Erie Clean-Up
Committee, I find it is my duty to oppose the method of
the supervisors of the Intercounty Committee's proposal
in which they propose to dispose of the wastes, Industrial
and municipal, to the use of a proposed Interceptor sewer
winding through five of the six counties which are
Joined together in the Intercounty Development Plan.
The small community such as Estral Beacn, or the
communities beginning at Estral Beach, have no chance for
survival, no matter how you work at it. We cannot even
borrow enough for a study. As pointed out previously,
there are reasons for many actions taken by people who we
feel are doing an unselfish service for us. Now, what
would possibly be the reasoning for a request from the
Detroit Water Authority to supply water to Flint?
In 1964 there appeared in the Detroit News
an article stating Detroit is willing to give water to
-------
1121
John Chascsa
these areas if they will also accept the most
liberal plan that would include disposition of the sewage
from the area, as well.
On August 24, 1963, there appeared an article
stating that Oakland County would get sewers and water at
a very liberal cost.
On July the 3rd, 1963, there was a request
by a Detroit official to dump raw sewage into the Detroit
River for ten days.
August 23, 1963, Pontiac is given water
from Detroit.
August 24, 1963* Mr. Remus, general manager
of Detroit's Water Supply reported to Council that Detroit
will extend its sewer strip into Oakland County to tie in
with the interceptor sewer.
The reason that we are concerned that these
growing areas do not individually build small sewage
treatment plants along the Clinton River, is pollution of
the Clinton River, which empties into Lake St. Clalr, is
an added threat to pollute water.
August 30, 1963, Dr. Heustis cites typhoid.
July 20, 1963, Kent County issues hepatitis
warning.
-------
1122
John Chascsa
July 4, 1963, ships blamed for pollution of
Huron beaches.
February 2, 1965, cnemlcal firm seeks reaction
ta-putting waste into River Raisin.
December 25, 1963, three Michigan schools
close; hepatitis hits schools.
March 20, 1965, Adrian and Vlctorville Schools
closed; water supplyuunsafe.
February 6,1965, Blissfield area school closed
because of pollution.
April 22, 1964, the Canadian Globe & Mail
quotes members of Parliament, "Lakes becoming large
septic tanks."
This could go on and on. Please note that
some of these items are in some way related to the l8l
miles of sewer being planned, in case you are not acquainted
with it—I think Mr. Oeming Is. I think your intercounty
sewage study report gives the length of them as being
l8l miles. What could possibly be the reason? Because
in the opposite direction—and that is where I live,
where we receive all of this stuff, toward Toledo and
Monroe the water situation Is bad, and State and Federal
authorities try to discourage tapping the waters of
-------
1123
John Chasesas
Huron, River Raisin, or Lake Erie. The reason is the
Lake is an open sewer and dumping ground for anything
and everything that is not wanted, from all sources;
industrial wastes, municipal sewage, dredging from the
rivers and creeks, as well as other refuse.
By 1970 Monroe will not be able to use Lake
Erie as a water source. With water studies on water
quality, and so on and so forth, in the past 40 or 50
years, it still is not getting through to the right minds
that these are the things that have destroyed civilization
since before Christ. In Rome, in Babylon, this happened.
In Deuteronomy, Chapter 23, Verse 13—arid
this I did not search out. This happens to have been
called to my attention j.n one of the sewage manuals that
is distributed, and I shall read it verbatim: "And
thou- i shall have a paddle upon thy weapon and it shall be
when thee will ease thyself abroad Lnee shall give fair
witness and shall turn back and cover that which cometh from
you."
The above was taken from the Manual of
Instructions of Sewage Treatment Plant Operators of the
Health Education Service, Post Office Box 7283, Albany,
New York*
Then it goes on to say "Water, itself, is not
-------
1124
John Chascsa
infectious, but Is rendered infectious to consumers by
infection organisms in number sufficient to produce
diseases.
"The term 'pollution,' for Instance, is of
general significance and should be understood to imply
the fouling of an otherwise inoffensive water by sewage
or other liquid or suspension, thus rendering it offensive
to sight, smell, and unsatisfactory fo~ palatable,
culinary or ingestive uses. The word 'infective' has been
employed to note contamination of water by patnogenic
organisms."
This above was taken from the American
Waterworks 'Association Manual on Water Quality Improvement,
Some firms such as the Humble Oil Company
of Texas have spent thousands of dollars to treat their
wastes so it can be made safe. Gerber Baby Foods has
rectified their nuisance by using it to a favorable
advantage.
Due to the lack of time to give this all here,
and also in view of the fact that it has been inserted
in the 1962 conference, I would like only to briefly call
to your attention what is being accomplished; because the
sewage that was being dumped into the Fremont River by
-------
1125
John Chasesac
Gerber was contaminating the water to the extent that
the fish were dying, and it was becoming a nuisance, so
they bought a farm, and they rectified it by taking nine
miles of pipe and piping their waste to the farm, thereby
creating one of the nicest experimental farms there is
in the area.
Is it possible that Sagonac Bay is becoming
another Lake Erie? I think a mention of that was made
today.
j;s it possible that some great financial
tycoon doesn't want filth around Flint, and has encouraged
the use of public funds to the tune of 378 million
dollars to put an interceptor sewer from around Flint
and wind through five of the six counties for a part of
the six-county Intercounty Supervisors Committee for
l8l miles of sewer to empty into the Huron River at
Lake Erie?
Lake Erie is posted with "Unsafe for Swimming"
signs at Sterling State Park. Why not all the beach
area all the way to the Detroit River?
As pointed out in the U. S. Public Health
report, Detroit has only one treatment plant, and no
secondary facilities at all. There are many miles of
-------
1126
John Chasesas
sewers being diverted into" Detroit's plant.
In Detroit there has been an expenditure of
over 300 million dollars on interceptor sewers since 1957.
Not one cent has been used to rectify the combination storm
and sanitary sewers. No effort has been made to eliminate
the flushing of the treated solids into the Detroit River
from the treatment plant on West Jefferson Avenue and
subsequent disposition in Lake Erie.
On February 4, 1965* a bill was proposed to
control the water use and bathing at Sterling State Park,
which was rather a ridiculous thing. How do you know
when the water is going to be polluted and when it isn't?
Last fall a request was made by the Sewer
Department of Detroit to be permitted to dump raw sewage
into the Detroit River for several weeks. The reason
was that a need to repair a valve at the Pairview Pumping
station was evident.
It is my understanding that this action has
been an annual ritual with one exception. For
several years this has been done, but permission was
never requested before.
Imagine, if you can, 125 million gallons of
raw sewage being dumped into the river every day for
-------
1127
John Chascsa
several weeks. Thank goodness we have a conscientious
group of you as Public Health Service personnel on the
Job. Otherwise we might have experienced tehe same condi-
tions as Toledo did last year. Every available pump in
Toledo, Ohio, was conscripted and put to use pumping
raw sewage'into the Miami River. What would occur in
Wayne County alone, without adding another 181 miles of
sewer pipe?
This actually happened, for example: in
Minnesota, Congressman Blatnik assisted all small
communities to obtain funds for a sewage treatment plant
at Watercrest. We, especially in the Monroe area, are
unable to get relief at any time, and this is a fact.
However, we do pay taxes that cities like Detroit are able
to obtain for almost any purpose, and especially to
eliminate any possibility of our communities ever being
able to use the river and lake as a source of water
supply. We expect the public to install proper
plumbing and we enforce the rule here. However, when
it applies to large corporations or municipalities
there are exceptions or excuses for one reason or another.
Let us adopt uniform rules, regulations, and
laws, and honestly abide by them. There is absolutely
no reason for any individual or corporation to feel nee
-------
1128
John Chascsa
t»
is entitled to abuse another for personal gain of any
type. If we have a problem, let us roll up our sleeves
and solve it. If we are going to claim the title of
Water Wonderland, let us work at it. If we are going
to attempt to preserve some of our natural forests,
wildlife, and clean water, let us plan for it. Let
us keep the upper peninsula of Michigan in a virgin state
as long as possible, and let us stop adding to the
pollution in the lower peninsula, especially in the
Lake Erie and Detroit area, by adding additional inter-
ceptor sewers with no plants for treatment of sewage.
Let us develop and improve lower Michigan
as an industrial wonderland with proper facilities for
purifying and eliminating water and air pollution
altogether. The good Lord gave us these natures to
enjoy. Why must we destroy them or deprive our neighbors from
enjoying them? It is not impossible and it must be done.
See what pollution has done to our shore line.
You can see this any place at all in the Lake Erie area,
if you take a trip down there.
The second section of this has a gruesome
title, perhaps, but it is true, "The Rape of a Water
Wonderland."
In the July 1962 issue of the Readers Digest
-------
John Chascsa 1129
there appeared an article on page 151 titled "Rape of our
Southern Mountains." Every American should have read It.
Every voting American should have read It; every voting
American should have remembered It; and every penny-
budgeting housewife; every sportsman; and every con-
scientious Christian should have read it, and done
something about it, even if he only Hung his head in shame
To commercialize on the gullibility of poor-
hill folks is not Christian. To abuse the stature of
being a businessman by destroying the life-blood of those
of our citizens through so-called shrewd business mani-
pulations is certainly un-American and un-Christlan.
When we, as individuals, resign ourselves
to a state of deplorable complacence by accepting it, do-
nothing bureaucrats who spend our money as well as set
the amount of tribute, we must pay to maintain the
bureaucracies, is something we have no power or sav-so
about, then we are lost.
We elect men to represent us in various
phases of government to do our bidding and to help us
determine the best course to follow. Unfortunately,
only a very few take their oaths seriously. Very few
attend all sessions that are held in Washington, and in
our State and County legislative capitols.
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1130
John Chasesa
We have created agencies and commissions
and various study groups, and, frankly, I believe the
committee studying the sex life of the gnat is about
the most capable of submitting an acceptable report,
if there is such a committee. Since the late 1950's we
have had one after another anti-pollution committees
created. We have had a geological study on in the Great
Lakes for many years; geologists, biologists, and
conservationists, health authorities, and many, many
more, who have compiled tons and tons of reports.
In the past 40, 50 or 60 years we have
bragged of our intelligence and know-how to do more and
better than any other nation on earth. We have proven
that we can fly, send rockets and missiles any place
on earth, and probably to the moon, and we have not
skimped on the cost of these exoeriments, in spite of
the staggering amounts. Yes, we could be proud of our
so-called accomplishments. We should be very proud and
very humble in dealing with our less fortunate neighbors
also, no matter who chey are. The trip-to-the-moon
commission has never been denied their request for funds.
These are always available.
The committees on pollution study, water,
health, public safety, sanitation, and many environmental
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1131
John Chascsa
aspects of our well-being have been belittled and
slighted and pushed aside for almost a whole decade of
studies until today,and we suddenly realize the Importance
of safe, clean water. Of what earthly use are all the
facts and figures gathered In the past 50 years to us?
We permit lobbyists to legally have our laws changed to
suit their clients' wants. We disregard the riparian
rights of the little guy who is all-important at
election:time and forgotten after election.
In 1961 Governor John B. Swalnson was asked
to call the U. S. Public Health Service into study of
the pollution problem in the Detroit River, Lake Erie,
Lake St. Clair, Huron River, River Raisin areas, and
many smaller tributaries leading into our lakes.
What was the real reason? Did someone feel sorry
for the plight of the residents along the Detroit River
or Lake Erie, or was there another reason? Did the pipe-
dream of the Detroit and Wayne County planners backfire
when they found their plans for another Italian dinkus
type of island change spilled silt into their water
supply system at Belle Isle. Remember the screaming
public demand on "What went wrong? Why the bad taste?
Why the industrial waste?" and so on and so forth.
Was this a way to get Federal funds to
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1132
John Chascsaa
pipe water from Lake Huron? Perhaps It should be
interesting to note the chain of events prior to and
after the S.O.S. for all the people under Federal
Jurisdiction to come to the aid of the large metropolis
of Detn&it.
Oh, yes, we all pay Federal taxes, and only
the large cities and those with pull are worthy of
getting any finances for the things needed to maintain
good health and other necessities of which we hear and
are told we should have to be good citizens and healthy
Americans.
Most:often you ;Just cannot afford even a trip
to Washington to seek assistance.
However, one of our more ambitious mayors
requested 50 thousand dollars to maintain an office In
Washington to be nearer the source of Federal grants,
loans, and gifts. Thanks to Council Woman Mary Beck it
was defeated.
You may say "What has this all to do with
pollution?" Well, let us look back a bit on the 27th
and the 28th of March of 1962. A conference was held
at the Veterans Memorial Hall in Detroit. The findings
of the U. S. P.H. S. substantiated that there was
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1133
John Chascsa
definite cause for a thorough investigation into the
cause of polution. This was substantiated by written
and oral evidence by many State agencies; the Army Corps
of Engineers; and various enforcement groups and citizens
groups known as the Lake Erie Clean-Up Committee, who
not only substantiated these assertions but also
submitted written evidence; and there were also 29
charges of water pollution in various degrees, taken at
29 separate locations, ranging from Toledo, Ohio, the
State line, to and including River Raisin, Lake Erie,
Swan Creek, Huron River, Detroit River, and the Rouge
River.
A statement was made at this conference that
the people in the Lake Erie and Monroe area could not
possibly have such a problem.
One of Detrolts leading citizens even went
so far as to state a little refuse doesn't hurt anyone,
and that perhaps we would be asked to put diapers on the
wild ducks flying over these waters so it could stay
clean. A very Intelligent remark was made by a man who
was looked up to by him. In recent statements to the
press he ridiculed the U. S. P.H. S. for doing a thorough
Job. I know it was thorough, because I personally
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1134
John Chascsas
followed all, or almost all of this study. When other
organizations were able to, they also followed the
progress. According to this man's statement this was
all a waste of time and uncalled f6r. The water quality
is so much more improved and has been on the upgrade
since 1940. If this water is so much better, then the
Jars we have—I do not have them on display, but I do have
them in the car, and if you people on the panel would
like to have them, I would be more than happy to have
my friend bring them in here, and let you see what the
water looks like today; and it has been an improvement
evervsince 1940.
On March 27, 1964, the Hater Resources
Commission granted permission for the Stopper Chemical
Corp. to dump $4,000 worh of chloride into River Raisin.
On May 14, 1964, the State Conservation Board
takes action to get two additional parks. They cannot
take care of the ones that we have.
On March 24, 1964, Home Canning Company in
Blissfield resented the permission granted by the State
Water Resources Commission to the Stauffer Company.
On March 28, 1964, Representative Hayes'
bill passed to permit boats under 25 feet to dump waste
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1135
John Chasesa
into our waters. If you have a boat that is smaller
than 25 feet in length you can go out there and dump
whatever you want, according to this bill.
I shall submit clippings to show how much
Lake Erie has deteriorated. As Justice William 0.
Douglas stated, sewage treatment plants, and not dams,
a re needed.
Along the Lake Erie shore line there are many
communities. Most of them are suitable for all sorts
of recreation.
The subcommittee on the Lake Erie technical
;study group, or the technical study group of the Lake
Erie Committee, has recommended that we come up with some
sort of program as to what most of this area could be
used for, and most of it—especially areas like Sterling
State Park, which is an Ideal location for tourists—
and we do want to draw tourists into the area, as the
entrance to the Water Wonderland. We find that people
do not care to use it for some unknown reason, except
perhaps the signs that are posted scare them away. No
one cares to oppose a sign that states that the water
in the area is not safe for swimming or recreation.
This site offers a possible trailer-camp site,
and what could be an ideal picnic site; Ideally located
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1136
John Chascsa
for Ohio, Indiana, Pennsylvania, and Michigan residents
to get to in a little time, and close enough to employment
that it could be an ideal location.
The Swan Creek and Estral Beach area, with
little financial effort and a determination to develop
a small craft harbor, could be turned into a financial
boon to Monroe County, as well as Berlin County. Estral
Beach offers a very large area for small craft refuge and
Swan Creek offers a most enviable position for the
accommodation of small boat races, rowing contests, and
many related fund-raising activities.
There is room for the development of water-
side motels, hotels, restaurants, and so on, and so forth,
and .we could go on and on and mention every one of these
verbatim.
Then February 17, 1965, there appeared a
small article in the Monroe Evening News. "I am nine
and I am interested in fish. I have been reading about
water pollution and how it kills fish. I was wondering
what the City of Monroe is doing about water pollution."
I wrote him a letter after quite considerable thinking.
How do you answer a nine-year-old's letter? How do you
make him understand that we, who are supposed to be in
the know-how, who are smart enough to tell people in
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1137
John Chasesac
Europe and In Asia and all over the world how
they should live, how can you tell a nine-year-old
kid what is wrong with the things that he mostly enjoys
like swimming and fishing. Probably some of you do not
have children. I have six of my own, and fii^e children,
I love to see them enjoy the good clean waters, and I
am sure everyone on this panel here would like to see
the same thing.
But, finally, here is what I came up with—
if you don't mind, Mr. Stein?
MR. STEIN: Go right ahead.
MR. CHASCSAS: I wrote, "Dear David:
"How does one answer a nine-year-old boyte
letter? It is difficult, but I will try. Although
you probably have never heard of me, I feel as though
I have known you all of your young life. You see, I
have two boys and four girls, and they, too, were nine
years old at one time. Like yourself, they enjoyed
to swim, boat, and fish, and though they are now
much older they still enjoy the water.
"My children were able to swim in Lake Erie
without too much fear up until five years ago. Since
then, however, my youngest daughter is unable to swim In
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1138
John Chascsa
Lake Erie because whatever pollutes the water makes
her ill and causes her skin to erupt.
"I can recall when as a boy I could drink
this water without any ill effects; but today it would
be foolhardy to even try.
"In 1961 Mary Margaret Revel attempted to swim
a long distance down the Detroit River to Lake Erie
and Toledo.
"In August, 1962, Barbara Smith tried to
swim from Amersford, Ontario to the River Raisin at
Monroe.
"Both girls became very ill from the
pollution in both the Detroit River and Lake Erie.
"Yes, Dafcld, many tests have been made of
the water in Lake Erie and streams emptying Into it,
but it seems that there is still enough room to store
additional research data, and we probably will not see
the day when actual efforts are put Into motion to once
again make these waters safe.
"Pollution, which starts at the kitchen sink,
at the drains of factories, and at the sewers of munici-
palities wind up eventually in our rivers and lakes.
"Yes, David, studies have been conducted
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1139
John Chascsa
for the past forty years or more, and many are being
conducted at the present time. Many village, county
and State committees are functioning as representatives
of those of us who are paying their salaries, and they
certainly have not given us our dollar's worth.
"Then, too, David, there is the big over-
shadowing benevolence of some industries who tell us,
the public, that they will give us a playground, a nice
large swimming pool, a nice money contribution for a
civic center, and many other good things; all of this
to be given at no cost to the communities affected in
return for permission to pollute our rivers and lakes.
Yes, David, no cost.
"Let us see how this works, for the sake of
something to say, when some industries move into a
community. The air becomes white -- yes, it becomes
white. Those of you who live in Delray and in Wyandotte
know what I mean when I say that — with lime dust; red
with iron ore dust; black with coal dust, and on top of
all this, smelly.
"The waters that I could swim in as a boy of
nine, drink without filtering, and fish in, are now dirty,
slimy, and all colors of the rainbow. Very little
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1140
John Chascsa
fishing now; to drink the water would be suicidej and
swimming is only for the daredevil types. Yes, David,
our waters have become like Russian roulette. One never
knows when nepatltls, dermatitis, typhoid, or perhaps
something worse will get you.
"In 1962 our Water Resources Commission and
our Health Department and several of our commissions
told us the people have nothing to worry about in Monroe
County. The siltation that is prevalent in the lake is
natural and cannot be controlled. They failed, however,
to mention how many times a day barge after barge dropped
waste from dredging and other sources and dumped it into
Lake Eire. They also did not mention the mess made by
dumping the wastes from River Raisin, River Rouge, and
the Detroit River into Lake Erie, and the resulting
end, the destruction of all the beach areas in Michigan
and Ohio which border Lake Erie.
"Oh, yes, they also do not mention the
eight dumping grounds from Cleveland to the mouth of the
Detroit River.
"Yes, David, educated adults deprived you of
your right to accept or reject something which you have
a right to. It is not considered wrong) it is politic.
"If you should pile your rubbish alongside
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John Chascsa
of your neighbor's fence and it spills over into his
yard, you were wrong. If you were to build an outhouse
at the rear of your yard and it smells up the neighbor-
hood, you most certainly are wrong, and you could be
put into Jail and looked upon as an idiot for daring to
endanger the health of your neighbors. But not if you
pollute the rivers or lakes.
"Yes, David, when you talk of these things
to some of our public protectors they say water can be
made safe for human consumption; but not so long ago in
Colorado the water in a small community was treated so
very thoroughly that it caused the hospitals in the
area to be filled with nine-year-old children, as well
as others over and under nine.
"D?vid, when you grow up I hope you will be
able to help make people realize that everyone should
be considered when water and air is to be polluted by
anyone. I hope when you are a man that other men will
have developed not only a rocket to the moon, fresh
water from sea water, missiles that can be sent soaring
five thousand miles or more, but also a healthy respect
for their fellow man by purifying all industrial and
municipal waste, as well.
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1142
John ChasOS*
"Well, David, I hope you will remember
that there are many groups like the Lake Erie Clean-
up Committee who are fighting to clean up the air and
water for the next generation, of which you are a part.
"If the men of our generation cannot find
the time to eliminate pollution, then It will have to be
done by the mothers and their sons and daughters. Let
us learn to be honest with one another. We can then
once more hold our heads high.
"God bless you, David, and guide you through
your life.
"Your friend, sincerely, John Chascsas"
I also have a letter here to Mr. Lawrence
Bluebold, which I won't read. I also have a letter to
the Honorable Governor George Romney, protesting his
Insistence on Industry moving up north, and I think that
Is our last frontier, and I think It should be preserved,
and I am also going to Insert this with a few statistics
on it, so that you may have it.
I would also like to impress upon you people
out there that sometimes if you look through the Bible
you will find things that relate to some of our conditions
as they exist today. I am not what you would call a
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1143
John Chasesa
a preacher. I am not a real religious man. I do go
to church, and I do try to live a good Christian life.
I get mad the same as anybody else. I hope that you
will forgive me for taking up so much of your time.
With that I think I will close and let
these gentlemen take it from there.
Thank you.
MR. STEIN: Thank you, Mr. Chascsa.
Are there any comments or questions?
Mr. Poston?
MR. POSTON: I might ask Mr. Chascsa whether
he has seen any changes in the rivers since 1962 at
the time you were at the other conference.
MR. CHftSCSA: Well, I might say this, that if
you had the time, or if you wish to take the time, I
have slides that I would like to show you that were
taken this year, since January, and you could form your
own ooncfcittsloBs. I mean, last year I took some, and
the year before I took some on the Fourth of July at the
same location, and the water was—well, it was at least
as black as this, if not blacker, and it was so smelly
that it was sickening. This is in the Lake Erie area.
I also have samples that were taken Just
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1144
John Chascsa
within the past two or three weeks, of water ranging
from Wyandotte down toward the Plum Creek area, and I
am sure that you will find that they resembled the water
that was presented in 1962 pretty much as it did at that
time.
MR. STEIN: Anything more?
MR. POSTON: Thank you.
MR. STEIN: How about Mr. Oeming?
MR. OEMINGi Mr. Chascsa, I assume that you
are familiar with the findings of the Federal study in
the Federal report?
MR. CHASCSA; You mean the present report?
MR. OEMING: The present report, yes.
MR. CHASCSA: I am familiar with some of it,
yes.
MR. OEMING: I think I made it a point to
see that you got a complete copy of it; that the Lake
Erie Clean-Up Committee got a complete copy.
MR. CHASCSA: If you did, I don't recall it.
MR. OEMING: One went to your secretary.
MR. CHASCSA: She probably has one.
MR. OEMING: In any event, if you haven't
seen it, I would suggest that you refer to the portion
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1145
John Chasesa
of the report which begins perhaps about page 300, or
somewhere about there, that discusses the Sterling
Park situation and the situation outside of Monroe in
Monroe County, and particularly to the north of
Sterling State Park Beach.
I look at the roster of your committee and
I see that you nave some clubs here and members from
Detroit Beach, Woodland Beach, Stony; Point Association,
all through this area; and I am wondering if you are
not now in a position to lend the influence and prestige
of your organization to support bond issues, to get out
and sell the need for sewage treatment—collection
and treatment in this area.
MR. CHftSCSAi May I answer you?
MR. OEMINGt I am asking the question, sir;
I would like an answer.
MR. CHASCSA: For the record, I would like
for you to know that in August, when the Monroe County
Fair is being held for a whole week, for the past three
years—and I think we have two people here from Monroe
County, who will substantiate my statement—we have
solicited signatures of people in the Monroe County
area, not Just visitors from any area, but from the
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1146
John Chasesa
Monroe County area, to establish a department of public
works to do Just exactly what you are talking about.
We have also made a request for water, and
at one time Mr. Remus had agreed that he would be willing
to put a 56-inch line all the way through to the Ford
Motor Company, if It were possible, to show them that
It would be monetarily feasible.
Since then I don't know what has happened.
We are not in a position to dictate to the Board of
Supervisors. We do crash their meetings. We do
send in requests. We do ask them for other considera-
tions for the people in the area that you realize, I believe,
as well as I do, is a depressed area; and I hope that
you people do not feel that we are here to castigate
you, because I know, as well as you do, that you are doing
a job that is almost an impossible Job, as well as the
United States Public Health Service.
However, people in the past have done this;
they have not taken into consideration that when a communi-
ty builds up that certain provisions have to be made
for sewage disposal.
There Is a big plant going up at this time
in Woodhaven, and you are aware of that, I am quite sure.
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1147
John Chascsa
What provisions for industrial wastes have been made
there? Now, we talk about our smaller areas. These
are small beach areas, which are private concerns, and
they have to find some way and some means of financing
their plight other than the county, because they feel
the county won't give them any money, or the county says
that they cannot give them the money.
So, until such time as we can persuade them
— and I assure you that we won't give up -- we shall
certainly be fighting to see that this department of
public works is created and that funds, somehow, somewhere,
will be made available to alleviate the situation as far
as sewers and water are concerned.
MR. OEMINQ: Well, I take it, then, Mr.
Chascsa, that you are willing to devote much of this
energy that you have been using to get these things
brought into focus here now, to getting the correction
under way?
MR. CHASCSA: I am at the present time a
member of the Monroe County Regional Planning Commission,
the Lake Erie Technical Study Commission. I am also the
President of Estral Beach, the President of the Lake
Erie Clean-Up Committee, and if you have any more
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1148
John Chascsa
committees that I might squeeze in some place I shall
be happy to serve on them.
MR. OEMING: I guess Estral Beach will
have to find some money to clean it up?
MR. CHASCSA: I wish they could. I have
written to your department and I have made requests for
applications, and even they have gone astray or gone
awry, or whatever happens to them; but you can rest
assured that I would like to see this taken care of.
MR. OEMING: Well, we don ft have any money
to give out.
MR. CHASCSA: I know you don't.
MR. OEMING: And this is a local responsi-
bility.
MR. CHASCSA: Well, it is a local responsi-
bility. Now you talk -- I hope you don't takre offense at
this, but you remind me of our Governor when he made
the statement that all the communities should take care
of their own responsibilities. As I cited in my report
here, if we could borrow that fifty thousand dollars
that this mayor wanted for a place in Washington so he
could be close to the sources of these funds, we could
do a terrific amount of good with fifty thousand dollars.
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1149
John Chascaa
I served for $75 a year. I would like to see how many
other people would exert that much energy.
MR. OEMINQ: I Just hope, Mr. Chascas, that
your Influence and prestige, which is felt considerably,
can be applied to getting the problem solved now
rather than about complaining about what isn't being
done. Something can be done; it is in your hands.
MR. CHASCSA: lean assurejou of one thing,
that with the cooperation of your agency and the Federal
Government we shall certainly do it.
MR. OEMING: You will have our cooperation.
MR. CHASCSA: If we can be assured of your
cooperation we will work on it harder than we have ever
worked on it.
MR. OEMING: Fine; that is what I want to hear.
MR. STEIN: Well, Mr. Chascsa, let me tell you
something: We do have money to give away.
Let me ask you, if you could summarize this,
do you believe that the waters of Lake Erie around
Monroe are polluted?
MR. CHASCSA: Do I believe they are polluted?
MR. STEIN: Yes.
MR. CHASCSA: Would you like for me to bring
the Jar in?
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1150
John Chascsa
MR. STEIN: No, no. Would you answer the
question?
MR. CHASCSA: I mean, I would rather bring
it in here, because someone may not believe me.
MR. STEIN: No. I would like your opinion.
MR. CHASCSA: My opinion is definitely they
are polluted.
MR. STEIN: All right. Thank you.
MR. CHASCSA: You will see that on this
picture, if you pass this picture along here, showing
these people. This is a recent one, showing the people
cleaning up the beach there.
MR. OEMING: I guess I would have to ask you:
Do you believe that the waters of Stony Creek and Sandy
Creek are polluted?
MR. CHASCSA: Yes, they are.
MR. OEMING: And where does that come from?
MR. CHASCSA: Some of it comes from some of
the septic tanks, and some of it comes from farm run-
off.
MR. OEMING: Estral Beach doesn't have anything
to do with any of these streams or waste disposal?
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1151
John Chascsa
MR. CHASCSA: Indirectly they might have.
MR. OEMING: Then you do not agree with the
Federal Report?
MR. CHASCSA: I agree with the Federal Report
with one exception and --
MR. OEMING: The exception is you don't want
Estral Beach to have to do anything? (Laughter.)
MR. CHASCSA: No, no. That is where you are
wrong.
Now you make me think of another gentleman
who wrote to me and told me that he spent 300 million
dollars of the Federal funds to do something in Detroit,
and wanting to know what Estral Beach did.
As I told you in my report, if we could borrow
enough for a postage stamp to write a letter to the
Federal Government, or to the proper authorities, we
would be doing good, and when you start picking on little
guys some of them don't just sit back and take it -- see?
I can assure you that you will get our cooperation.
MR. OEMING: Fine.
MR. CHASCSA: And we are going to be fighting
wholeheartedly.
MR. STEIN: With what part of the report
don't you agree?
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1152
John Chascsa
MR. CHASCSA: The report of dumping too
close to the port of Mom-oe or just too close to the
mouth of the Monroe River. I believe—I don't know Just
what page it is on.
MR. STEIN: But identify the idea.
MR. CHASCSA: The idea was that the hoppers
of these barges or boats should not be opened too close
to the present dumping grounds and they should be moved
farther out.
MR. STEIN: Yesj what is your view?
MR. CHASCSA: As the representative of the
Army Corps of Engineers stated, something different
should be done, and I think it should be contained
behind a wall of some kind lined with clay or It should
be pumped inland where it could be put to good use. It
could be utilized as a fill very easily.
MR. STEIN: I have no further questions.
MR. POSTON: No further questions.
MR. STEIN: Thank you very much, Mr.
Chascsa.
MR. CHASCSA : You are welcome; and thank you
for the opportunity.
MR. STEIN: Thank you for your comprehensive
statement.
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1153
John Chasesa
(The following papers were presented for the record.)
EXPERT OPINION:
"The conference heard the present official
Coast Guard position on the question of licensing pleasure
boat operators. The Coast Guard does not feel that
operator's licensing, at least none of the systems that
have been proposed so far, would serve any useful pur-
pose. The age limit approach, for one, is not viewed
as meaningful because boating accident statistics do
not point to age as a determinative factor."
ADMIRAL RICHMOND, Head of the U.S. Coast
Guard, Ret. 1961. :
"That is why I appeared to say that we would
be reluctant yesterday to jump wholeheartedly on the
idea of licensing individual operators. It was not
necessarily a reluctance because of administration, but
I am not surefchat.lt would really add too much to the
overall safety program,,
"It certainly would make everybody there
show a fair degree of competence before they were able
to use a power-driven boat, but it still does not
guarantee safety, and I think it could, unless approached
very prudently, be unduly restrictive to the boating out
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John Chasesa
there, which I do not think any of us want to see."
ADMIRAL E. J. HOLLAND, Head of the U.S.
Coast Guard, Reg.
"You and I know that boating is a relatively
safe sport, but we must accept the fact that everyone does
not agree with that opinion. According to your industry
figures, about 40 million go boating out of a population
of 180 million. That means the majority of voters are
not boaters."
SOUTHEASTERN STATES
OPPOSE OPERATOR LICENSES
The Southeastern Assn. of State Boating
Law Administrators has gone on record against operator
licenses at this time. A resolution declaring that
"the licensing of motorboat operators be not recommended
was adopted unanimously at a meeting of the regional
group in Clearwater, Florida. In support of its stand,
the association stated that "boating accident
statistics . . . fail to show that involvement in
accidents is, in fact, related to factors which any
system of licensing would substantially reduce or eliminate,
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1155
John Chasesa
and that "problems of administration and enforcement of
any such licensing system would outweigh benefits that
might accrue."
WASHINGTON
REPORT
By William T. Stone
Licensing Bill Opposed by Federal Agencies
Two Federal agencies — the Treasury and
Interior Departments -- have told Rep. Herbert C. Bonner,
Chairman of the House Merchant Marine and Fisheries
Committee, that they are opposed to compulsory licensing
of boat operators at this time, as proposed in the
Chamberlain bill (H.R. 1055).
The Treasury Department, which sometimes
speaks for the U.S. Coast Guard on legislative issues
before Congress, had this to say in its letter to Mr0
Bonner:
"While the Department believes that a federal
program of licensing motorboat operators would have a
definite deterrent effect on the negligent and careless
operation of motorboats, we believe that the govern-
ment should not at this time embark upon a compulsory
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1156
John Chasesa
licensing program. Rather, further emphasis on boating
safety education and more extensive enforcement of existing
boating safety laws would appear to be more fruitful.
Such a program would be a wiser utilization of federal
government funds than the proposed licensing program, the
costs of which would be quite high. It is estimated that
with over six million potential licensees, an additional
six hundred personnel would be required by the Coast
Guard to implement the program proposed by H.R. 1055."
The Treasury rasied no objection to licensing
by the states, noting that the Federal Boating Act of 1958
contains authority for licensing of motor boat operators
under state laws. "We would have no objection," the
Treasury said, "to their utilization of this authority*
.We would hope that if they do so, some degree of uniformity
and ^reciprocity could be attained among the various states."
Fishing vessels affected by licensing bill
The Interior Department, which is concerned
with sport-fishing and commercial fisheries, stated flatly:
"We recommend against the enactment of this legislation."
Noting that H.R. 1055 would be applicable to all commercial
fishing vessels that are undocumented and propelled by
machinery of more than 10 hp, Secretary of the Interior
Stewart L. Udall said:
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1157
John Chasesa
"There are approximately 55>000 small boats
now being utilized in commercial fishery which would be
adversely affected by this legislation. We do not have
sufficient information concerning commercial fishing
activities throughout the country to know that the
licensing system proposed would not contribute materially
to the safety of operation 01 commercial fishing craft.
There is, to our knowledge, no evidence that lack of
physical capacity, maturity, or knowledge of rules of
the road on the part of operators of commercial fishing
craft have constituted a threat to safety on navigable
waters. The imposition of such a licensing system on the
commercial fishing industry would therefore be an un-
necessary burden without hope of improving the safety
factor in the industry. . . . Moreover, since there is
often more than one operator for each boat, the number
of individuals concerned and requiring licensing would
be materially greater than the number of boats would
indicate."
We are losing American men north of Malay
and our proud Navy is on the prowl in Asian waters.
This is Just another step in our National
Policy of sympathy for the "underdog."1.
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1158
John Ghascsa
We might well recognize that we call it
"Sportsmanship" to "feel sorry" for the losing team.
It is a national disgrace, so well illustrated by our
traditional Life Magazine that it's "Good Luck to
'Sovereign.'"
GOOD LUCK
TO 'SOVEREIGN'
Millions of Americans — many with no more
experience of yachting than owning a dinghy on a warm
water lake -- this week find themselves caught up once
again in the vicarious enjoyment of the America's Cup
races. The spectacle of rich men spending hundreds of-
thousands of dollars and working like stevedores to bring
a graceful sailing vessel to perfection has a sort of
neverland charm, a little like reading about royalty at
play. And the long struggle over the .ugly silver pitcher
has been filled with drama ever since the upstart schooner
America, sailing against 14 British competitors, first
captured it in 1851.
In the intervening century the British, in
their zeal to win it back, and the Americans, in their
zeal to defend it, have often belied the old aphorism
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1159
John Chasesa
that "a gentleman can do business with anyone, but he can
only go yachting with another gentleman." The early history
of the races is filled with angry protests and claims of
foul. The defending club has the right to apply its own
set of rules and, taking advantage of this, in the old
days, the New York Yacht Club did some blatant rule-
jigger ing to favor its boat.
Perhaps this kind of nonsense was understand-
able when twisting the lion's tail was still in fashion.
Certainly the huge amounts of money involved -- it has been
estimated gleefully that the British have spent more money
trying to get the Cup back than they spent to repel the
Spanish Armada -- have lent an air of desperation to the
competition.,
Modern races are run under far more equitable
rules, but one unhappy by-product of the past has remained:
the defense of the Cup, like the Olympics, has become all
mixed up with national prestige. With each successful de-
fense the thought of an eventual loss seems to become
more horrendous. There is a saying that if the Cup is
ever lost it will be replaced in the Club Trophy Room with
the losing skipper's head. Sailboat racing, from junior
regattas to Cup defenders, is already competitive enough
without chauvinism.
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1160
John Chasesa
This year, after a grueling summer of elimin-
ation trials, the New York Yacht Club has come up with
another superb defender in Constellation. In fact, an all-
out effort has been made by both sides, and no one would
want it any other way. At the same time, we suspect that
a great many Americans are getting heartily bored with the
113-year U.S. monopoly over this event. We're sure the
British are equally tired of their traditional role of
gallant losers. For our part, we think it would be a
good thing for the sport, and good thing for sportsmanship,
if Britain's Sovereign sailed away with the Gup.
Only recently have reliable statistics for
Ohio regarding casualties on the water been developed.
Life is so precious in America! But un-
fortunately our National Safety policy is based on fear
and penalty. Fear and penalty is almost punitive in its
concept. It works on Russian boys and German boys, many
real American boys stick out their tongues at the U. S.
Coast Guard. Why should we not try American methods before
we cut off our youth from the man-building features of our
last Frontier?
Incentives (or bonuses) work with Americans!
Why shouldn't they be allowed to perfect tfemselves in
small boat handling and get citations from the U. S. Coast
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John Chascsa
Guard, the Coast Guard auxiliary members and members of
U. S. Power Squadrons whenever anyone does anything right
(in Bristol fashion)on the water. Hobbies lead to per-
fection.
With the many millions of trips on the water
in 1961, the total losses in connection with small boats
were only 15. Loss of life in Farm ponds was 24. Loss
of lives of those who work around the water -- longshore-
men, construction workers and crewmen -- was 40 for the
year. Why not license workmen first?
Fifty more years of aspiring to be the under-
dog and we will be the underdog. You never overshoot
this mark]
Nobody can be greater than he aspires to be!
Let me tell you about an almost insignificant
detail of the American Cup Race. Naturally, a solid steel
rod can be just as strong as twisted wire stays for the
mast. Besides, rod rigging has less windage than twisted
wire rigging of equal strength.
Steel wire and steel rod has to be heat
treated to develop highest strength. Ordinarily, heat
treated furnaces are horizontal!
Rod, for logical reasons, has to be heat
treated in a vertical furnace. The vertical furnace in
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1162
John Chasesa
Baltimore is twice as tall as the highest vertical furnace
in England; hence, the challenger carried twice as many
joints in its rigging than the defender.
The sum total of all the unidentified
technologies, plus the trials of competition through
which the defender is selected, makes the defender unbeat-
able until we become' a second-rate power by our so-called
noble sympathies for the underdog, and withholding
frontier experiences from our children.
There is another, quicker way to weaken our
nation, and that is to remove from ready access the last
frontier, namely, the waters of our state and our nation,
AMERICAN SQNDERKLASSE RACERS WIN
In the third series of races between American
and German Sonderklasse yachtsmen off Marblehead the
first week in September, both first and second honors fell
to Americans. The Taft Cup for the first boat winning
three races went to the Joyette owned by W. H. Child, of
Brooklyn, and the Draper Cup, for the boat' winning most
points in the first four races, went to the Ellen, owned
by C. P. Curtis, of Boston. A further condition was that
the same boat could not carry away both Taft and Draper prizes,
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1163
John Ghascsa
Many forces are at work on this: (1) fish
nets prevent many cautious people from using the waterways
after dark; (2) some authorities would like to have advance
notice of this (such as yacht racing) for alleged safety
reasons -- a race should call for a committee boat, there
to render first aid; (3) City generated pollution is be-
coming a deterrent to many others.
And now comes our own folks who live inland,
worrying about our safety, who propose to license oper-
ators on the water.
Yes, we are proud of our aggressiveness in
the war in the Pacific, because many of our key men had
small boat experience in their youth I
In 1902 Kaiser Wilhelm said "We cannot bring
England to her knees until we (Germany) get familiar with
the water." Then he proceeded to promote yachting in
Germany embracing the Sender Class, a type of racing
sailboat later adopted in Massachusetts Bay and all over
Europe.
His message had not yet hit home forty years
later when the old yachtsmen of England removed 300,000
armed men from the beach at DunkirkI
You know, until the impact of licensing has
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1164
John Chascsa
had its effect, our "Yanks" would cross the English
Channel in a hop, skip and a jump]
Prepared at the writer's expense from
Pension Funds and Social Security
as a compliment to ....
our clear minded legislators who can see through the
haze the clear fact that in view of the relatively few
casualties regarding the use of small boats, we should
not take away the "HERITAGE OP AMERICA," namely, THE
FREEDOM OF THE SEAS^ ----
including rivers, ponds and lakes!
A. F. Wakefield
Vermilion, Ohio
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1165
John Chasesa
EXHIBIT "F"
Are you convinced that our water-contamination problem is
being solved? It's growing worse! Do you realize that
filth may be running out of your own faucets? Here are
some grim facts
BY GEORGE LAYCOGK
ONE ultimate terror that even the Nazis dared
not release in World War II was bacteriological warfare.
They knew it would bring immediate retailiation and soon
rage all over the world in a Black Plague of unimaginable
horrors, for its vehicle would be the most innocent of all
substances -- clear, fresh drinking water. But unlike our
most barbarous enemies, we have for half a century or more
been exercising no such forbearance. Cherishing our
friends, our neighbors, and our communities, we have
poisoned their drinking water and our own -- slowly, in-
sidiously, and, of course, unintentionally. And,God save
the mark, we are still doing it. Most Americans don't take
pollution very seriously. There have been alarms and
warnings, but we have been lulled into a dangerous com-
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1166
John Chasesa
placency by the optimistic chirpings of certain public
officials and scientists who are as reluctant as we are
to face the truth squarely. One can imagine their proto-
types in the great Chicago fire saying, "Come on, relax --
things are not as bad as they were. We have brought the
fires in half a dozen houses under control."
Today we hear cheerful reports of how water
pollution is being licked; that we are well on the way
to a new day. This is pleasant, encouraging, relaxing,
and untrue.
This is the truth: Pollution is deadlier than
you think. The peril is closer to you than you think.
And the time to repel it is growing pitifully short.
This pollution problem is not merely a matter
of disappearing fish or of poisoned wildlife. It involves
you, me, everybody -- our health, our survival.
All this is only too well known to many bio-
logists, men frustrated by the unbelieveable apathy of the
American people. I recently visited perhaps the greatest
of these water-pollution scientists, an angry man named
Dr. Clarence M. Tarzwell. He should need no introduction,
but for the record he is chief of the Aquatic Biology
Section, Basic and Applied Sciences Branch, U. S. Public
Health Service. A biologist of worldwide fame, he was
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1167
John Chasesa
recently awarded a most coveted decoration, the Aldo
Leopold Memorial Award Medal for 1963.
You may, however, need an introduction to
such horrors as sludge worms and rat-tailed maggots.
Revolting names -- but not as revolting as the creatures
that teem, in the water that you and your family may soon
be drinking.
In Dr. Tarzwell you find no high-domed
scientist, aloof and disdainful of man, working in a
well-ordered laboratory sheltered from the turmoil of
ordinary life. Tarzwell's consuming interest is the
welfare of his fellow man. He speaks directly and to
the point, disdaining the equivocations, the cheerful
nonsense, of so many highly placed men who prefer the
opium of optimism to the sweaty, often-discouraging
battle to end one of America's greatest menaces.
Clarence Tarzwell is angry because the nation
seems unwilling to come to grips with a national shame, a
vast cesspool of dirty water that is piped into the homes
of so many Americans.
"Oh, we're polite and civilized," he says.
"We wouldn't think of throwing our garbage, into a neigh-
bor's backyard. That would be socially unacceptable. But
who Is to know -- even we -- that we are running our
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1168
John Chasesa
sewage into his drinking water?"
As Dr. Tarzwell talks about our apathy his
temper grows warm, his sentences come fast, his voice
rises, and his hand pounds the table. "Water Is life-
giving and life-sustaining," he says, "yet we have taken
it for granted, we have wasted it, and we have used it
to receive our wastes."
He knows that this is now a problem for all
America, though he started fighting pollution more than
thirty years ago in some of Michigan's finest trout streams.
Logging operations had fed silt into the streams. The
Michigan Conservation Department hired Tarzwell, fresh out
of college, to work out a solution.
Among other things, Ta^zwell studied the move-
ment of'the water in the streams where trout had dwindled,
and the matter it carried along with it. He saw that sand
had covered the gravel beds where trout had once spawned,
and he decided that this sediment could be washed away by
water just as water had put it there. To accomplish this,
: ; devised the first trout-stream improvement structures,
the types of deflectors and dams still being used. His con-
struction crews were ex-lumberjacks, and the youthful
biologist learned how to use a double-bitted ax and to
swing a sledge.
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1169
John Chasesa
"We didn't have waders," he recalls, "and
the water was usually about 52 degrees." He often worked
in the stream from morning until night, but he was re-
warded; his structures did clean off some of the gravel
beds and the trout populations began to show an increase.
This attracted the attention of trout fishermen every-
where, and Tarzwell was soon rehabilitating private
streams in many parts of Michigan.
Later he supervised all trout-stream improve-
ment.
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1170
John Chasesa
This was the primary reason for choosing
the Lockport forebay within the Sanitary District as
the test location. This area is described in a subse-
quent section.
It is believed that the method of dimensional
analysis could lend assistance to future studies insofar
as comparison between systems would then be possible.
It would certainly be a necessary approach wherever
model studies are undertaken,.
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1171
John Chasesa
A DETERMINATION
Science, left to its own development, as
it is in government, suffers from the lack of initiative
contributed to it normally by industrial connections.
Industrial management which devoted itself to the answer
of research for the grandchildren of stockholders would
be made away with, because the problem is to help and aid
the taxpayer or stockholder now living.
Biologists say the "fish kills" in Lake
Erie most often result in the lack of oxygen in the
water. Let's put some in itiJ
Somehow, a "crash" program sounds reckless,
but nothing is more shamefully wreck-causing than the
continued measurements and surveys of a situation, many
facts of which are well known.
Lake Erie has an area of five million acres.
If the five million acres were land and no more productive
than Lake Erie, this land-minded nation of ours would
have dams all over Indiana, Michigan and Wisconsin to
provide irrigation for this area.
Dr. Langlois, the senior biologist of the
Great Lakes, in his letter of April 30 (Exhibit A), is
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1172
John Chasesa
always ready with an idea. Let us go to the third idea
in his letter from -which I quote. He refers to a
mechanical areator:
"It could -work out of Toledo in Maumee
Bay and along the south shore to Locust Point, and it
could be used out of Monroe on the Raisin River, Might
even toe used where the Detroit River discharges into Lake
Erie with the total burden with sewage from Detroit and
on each of the Lake Erie Islands."
While he admits he is not too sure of the
results, I am sure he has overlooked the Research Paper
No. 1 given at the Water Pollution Control Federation in
Seattle last year, which measures dissolved oxygen production
of mechanical areation in the Chicago Drainage Canal
run-off. (Exhibit B)
Besides that, he has the experience of the
Springfield Outdoor Club reported by Clark Patten.
(Exhibit C).
The putrefaction of sewage of Detroit, Monroe
and Toledo takes oxygen out of the Lake. Let's replace
it then and there 11
Let our State Agencies participate in
Federal grants and put diesel-driven aerators on the
twenty-two islands in the Lake. Since Lake Erie is
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1173
John Chasesa
international in character, only a few less oversize plows
to Persia would pay for our own improvement program.
We are living in a technological and
scientific world, the effects of which we feel spreads
the process of polluting of our water supplies. By in-
troducing specific poison in the Mississippi and St.
Louis, traces of the same impurities can be found at
New Orleans, in measured time afterwards.
Such a phenomenon is foreign to the Great
Lakes Basin, since in the Mississippi a mass of poison
water goes down the river basin like a train of cars!
If such industrial pollution reaches Lake Erie, the
dilution meeting with a mass of water represented by
five million acres, with the churning affect of wave
action and dispersion by natural currents, brings about
dilution impossible to measure or even conceive.
When pollution is mentioned, some industrial-
ists shake in their bones, without realizing the dilution
with any one of the Great Lakes overcomes many local
complaints, except when the outflow of industry takes
oxygen out of the water when added to the silt washed
into the lake from the baring soil of the winter season —
especially pronounced in the growing of corn.
The study of this lake problem is known as
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John Chasesa
"ecology." While many members of the Lake Erie Resource
and Recreation Council are merely laymen,•some of our
numbers have served on boards of trustees for engineering
and scientific research programs of considerable eminence.
We could do the same for Lake Erie when our
land-minded officers are ready to attack the problem.
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1175
John Chasesa
li « ii
EXHIBIT "A
THE OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY
COLUMBUS 10, OHIO
April 30, 1964
Mr. A. F. Wakefield
Wakefield Lighting Division
Wakefield Corporation
P. 0. Box 195
Vermilion, Ohio
Dear Mr. Wakefield:
Your courtesy in sending a copy of Yeoman's
"Picture Report on World's First Attempt to aerate a
Flowing River", is sincerely appreciated. I neve seen
only news articles about the experiment, so am glad to
have this close-up of the machine.
As you know, I am much concerned about the prob-
lem of summer stratification and stagnation of the lower
waters of the critical western end of Lake Erie, and have
been urging action by sanitary engineers. I have stated
my opinion that first efforts should be directed towards
helping the upstream cities develop effective economic
methods of complete treatment of all used water before
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1176
John Chascsa
returning it to the tributary rivers or directly to the
western end of the lake. Second efforts, if the flow
of enriching materials is continued, should be aimed at
keeping the effects of such pollution at the western end
and not let it spoil the rest of the lake.
These second efforts, following standard
methods of sewage treatment, would consist of methods
for helping the water of the western end digest the
materials added to it, and retarding outflow eastwards un-
til digestion has taken place, I have suggested that a
levee,, supporting a cross-the-lake highway, be built from
Catawba Point across the series of Bass Islands to Pelee
Island, and that a bridge be constructed over the Pelee
Passage, I hasre suggested also that experiments at
aeration be tried in the zone used by the Erie Ordnance
depot, using windmills on rafts with air-pumps and per-
forated plastic hose on bottom. The transference of
sludge from shoals out from the south shore onto land,
back of the present sand bars, would make valuable farm
land which would be worth saving by sea walls and
jetties.
The possible use of a Yeoman's Floating
Aerator would be worth considering. It could work out
of Toledo in Maumee Bay and along the south shore to
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1177
John Chascsa
Locust Point, and it could be used out of Monroe on the
Raisin River. It might even be used where the Detroit
River discharges into Lake Erie,, but. I doubt if it could
be used where the Detroit River discharges into Lake Erie,
but I doubt if it could be used in the open lake, ex-
cepting possibly within easy access of the good harbor
at Put-in-Bay. I have no way of Judging whether or not
the value received from such usage would make the cost
of such operations a good investment, but the restoration
of Lake Erie to healthy condition is an objective worth
this kind of a gamble.
You may quote this letter in its entirety
only, but you have my permission to use it en toto any-
way you may wish.
With kindest regards.
Yours sincerely,
THOMAS H. LANGLOIS
Professor
THL/skd
p.s. Why not organize the "Friends of Lake Erie"?
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1178
John Chasesa
EXHIBIT "C"
DIVISION OF WILDLIFE
XENIA — After experiencing a heavy
winter-kill of fish in its lake, a year ago, an put-
door club in the Springfield area has done something
about it, according to William Zarbock, fisheries
biologist with the Ohio Division of Wildlife.
The Van Dyke Club, with grounds and head-
quarters east of Springfield, installed a 3/^- horse-
power _electric motor, a two-stage compressor and 1,000
feet of weighted hose to keep an area in the lake free
of ice. Air bubbles emanating from the hose circulates
the water from the lake bottom and keeps a large section
of the 11-acre impoundment open.
(more)
-11-
Clark Patton, Springfield, member of the
fish committee, said the results had been quite favor-
able this winter. During the coldest weather, when ice
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1179
John Chasesa
on most of the lake was 10 inches thick, an open area
was maintained about 500 feet long and 250 feet wide.
"After it rained and the ice began thawing,
one whole end of the lake opened up," said Patton. "While
other ponds and small lakes were still covered with rotten
ice, we had ducks swimming around on our lake. The air
bubble rig not only helped the fish, but aided migrating
ducks this first year it was in use."
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1180
John Chascsa
EXHIBIT "E"
Lunch was served at the Vermilion. Yacht Club,
after which Ray Full, acting as temporary chairman., read
a letter from. Mr., Ros.s Leffler, Assistant Secretary of
the Interior,. U..S. Fish and Wildlife Division., in which he
stated that sport fishermen., commercial fishermen., and
boating enthusiasts all have a different interest in Lake
Erie,, and. commended, the group for the cooperative effort
being, made, through meetings such as this, in creating a
better understanding of each other's problems.
Mr. Olds introduced the members of his staff
and explained their duties. He stated that, through the
courtesy of the Ohio State- University, Dr. Thomas Langlois
now serves the division in an advisory capacity.
Mr. Carbine then introduced the members of
the Bureau of Commercial Fisheries and stated that the
bureau became active in Lake Erie because it had been asked
to do so. He pointed out that the Lake Erie Fish Manage-
ment Committee, made up of representatives from all states
bordering on Lake Erie and the Province of Ontario, Canada,
was formed to gain more knowledge of fish life and to pool
all of the knowledge obtained by the various states and
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John Chasesa
Canada. Mr. Carbine pointed out that the Bureau of
Commercial Fisheries is flexible and can go into inter-
national waters and the waters of surrounding states.
This program has been under way about two years and while
a great deal of valuable information has been obtained
through the combined efforts of the various .groups .much
remains to be learned. He stated that they .still are
unable to explain the tremendous fluctuations in the
various species.
During the course of informal discus.sions
it was learned that large areas in Lake Erie were found
to have low oxygen content, which is harmful to fish
life. Mr. Berry asked what effect this .has on fish and
Dr. Moffett explained that fish must breathe the same as
humans. He stated that fish have no intelligence and
for that reason do not know when to leave an area where
the oxygen content is too low for their survival. As ,a
result many die. He further stated that the .may fly has
been practically wiped out because of low oxygen 'Content
in the lake,,
Mr. Murdock asked the reason for this low
oxygen condition. It was explained that when the lake
is calm for extended periods the biological demand is
very high and oxygen is used up without being replenished.
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1182
John Chasesa
Bacterial break-down of dead fish also consumes oxygen.
Selden said that Lake Erie Walleyes hatched
in the spring of 1959 now measure 8.1 to 12.2 inches, the
average being 10.25. Ke said that he personally had
measured 468 of 975 walleyes observed in 19 nettings
by commercial fishermen on October 23, off South Bass
Island. Van Meter reported on 11 net liftings off Kelleys
Island, the same date when 399 measured from 8.2 to 11.9
inches. All fish were returned to the lake. The walleyes
won't influence commercial fishing until next fall when the
legal length limit of 14 inches probably will be reached,
Van Meter said. Sport fishing anglers, however, will get
their chances during the summer, before many reach the
l4-inch size.
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1183
John Chasesa
THE OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY
RESEARCH FOUNDATION
February 15, 1963
Mr. Al Wakefield
Wakefield Lighting Division
Wakefield Corporation
Vermilion, Ohio
Dear Mr. Wakefield:
This is in reference to your note addressed
to me and the attachment concerning pollution of Lake
Erie.
I am glad to have this brought to my
attention, although your purpose is not entirely clear
to me. I can say in general, however, that we would all
agree the problem of water pollution is an important one.
We have dealt with water supply, use and treatment from
time to time, in one way or another, in our little
publication SCIENCE AND APPLIANCE, and no doubt will
have occasion to do so in the future. I might add that
I am personally a consultant to the Public Health Service
in its waste water treatment program, and by that means,
too, am kept fairly well up to date with problems and
activities in this field.
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John Ghascsa
Sincerely yours.,
ORAM G. WOOLPERT, M.D.
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR
OCW-fh
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1185
John Chasesa
LAKE ERIE CLEANUP COMMITTEE
NEWPORT,, MICHIGAN
May 21, 1962
Mr. Lawrence Gubow
U.S. Attorney for the
E. District of Michigan
Federal Bldg.
Detroit, Michigan
Dear Sir :-
On April 12, 1962, a resolution was made and
supported to file a formal complaint with the U.S.
District Attorney, against the Army Corps of Engineers,
for permitting the pollution of the Detroit river and
for deliberately spreading pollution in Lake Erie, by
dumping the dredged sludge into the waters of Lake Erie
off Pointe Mouille, thereby creating a nuisance and health
hazard in this area.
It is a known fact that the Corps of En-
gineers is aware of the contamination present in this
waste. And it is also a known fact that the Joint
Waterways Commission, Water Resources Commission, Con-
servation Department, the County, State, and Federal
Health Departments, as well as the similar agencies of
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1186
John Chasesa
the State of Ohio, could and should have stopped this
action when it first came to light several years ago.
This is a deliberate act of indifference on
the part of the agencies mentioned and especially the Army
Corps of Engineers who are delegated the task of policing
any and all public streams and lakes as described in
Federal Laws, (Title 33, section 4o6-407, page 5833) and
further on page 5835 of Title 33, section 411), explains
the penalty for wrongdoers, as well as the duty of the
U.S. Attorney and other Federal officers.
The remarks submitted by Colonel Pfeil,
to the Conference.held in Detroit in March were very
enlightening and prove that the danger of a serious
situation exists in this area and that it is more or less
the responsibility of the U.S. Congress and of the States
of Michigan and Ohio to see that the protective laws be
strictly adhered to by all concerned and that your office
vigorously prosecute any and all offenders.
The State of Ohio as mentioned in this com-
plaint is guilty of the same action by creating a health
hazard and nuisance (off the shores of the Community of
North Shores on Lake Erie south of the city of Monroe,)
through the dredging by the Corps of Engineers, of the
Maumee river in Toledo, Ohio.
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1187
John Chasesa
No dumping should be permitted, into one
of the finest bodies of water that the good Lord created
for the pleasure of man, at any time or under any cir-
cumstances.
The action requested by this group is not
singular as witnessed by the many complaints filed with
the U.S. Health Department on many occasions in the past
twenty years and prior to the Conference in Detroit.
Hoping it will not be necessary to contact
you on this matter in the future.
To a successful and mutually beneficial
conclusion of our problem.
Respectfully,
John Chascsa, Chairman
Copies sent to:
Secretary of U.S. Army
U.S. Army Corps of Engineers
U.S. Department of Health, Education,-and. Welfare
U.S. Supreme Court Justice Douglas
U.S. Senator Hart
U.S. Senator McNamara
U.S. Congressman Header
International Joint Waterways Comm.
Mich. Water Resources Commission
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John Chasesa
Mich. Conservation Dep't.
Governor John Swainson
State Senator Porter
State Representatives:
William C. Sterling
William Copeland
Albert Petri
William H. Thorn
Michigan State Health Dep't.
Monroe County Health Dep't.
Monroe, Wayne, Washtenau, County Bd. of Supv.
All Lake Associations, and Downriver Communities,
Paul Findlay, Toledo, Ohio
Ohio State Congress
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1189
John Chasesa
LAKE ERIE CLEANUP COMMITTEE
NEWPORT, MICHIGAN - 48l66
October 11, 1963
Honorable George Romney
Governor of the State
of Michigan
Lansing, Michigan
Dear.Governor:
In reply to your letter of October 4, per-
mit me to thank and commend you for the interest and
concern shown in the problem'of pollution facing the
people of the Detroit and Lake Erie Area.
In your letter, you stated that all angles
have been surveyed and analysed as to health problems,
contamination hazards, and possibly a typhoid epidemic
or worse for the City of Wyandotte, Great Lakes Steel,
Hannah Furnace, Ford Motor Company, Detroit Edison Company
at Conners Creek, DECo Delray Plant, River Rouge Plant,
Trenton Plant, City of Wyandotte Water Plant, Riverview,
McLouth Steel at Trenton and Gibralter, City of -Trenton,
City of Gibralter, Rockwood (East), Pointe Mouille'e
(Game Reserve), Estral Beach, Stoney Pointe, Bay Crest,
Brest Bay Area, Sterling State Park, the City of Monroe
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1190
John Chascsa
water intake, Consolidated Paper Company, Ford Motor
Company of Monroe, and River Raisin Paper and Union Bag
Company of Monroe plus all the other municipalities such
as Luna Pier, Erie City of Toledo and many other
communities along Lake Erie. On the Canadian side: the
City of Windsor, Sandwich, LaSalle, Leamington, Amherstberg,
plus many others. As you no doubt realize by now, many
lives on both sides of the international waters may be
affected and, as I have mentioned, disease is not a dis-
criminator and may strike any of us. Is this what may
come of giving the City of Detroit permission ^to dump
raw sewage into the waters that we use for so many normal
and every-day functions? Will this be something we can
look forward to in another forty years? When have the
other valves in question been repaired? In the appeal to
the State Health Department and Water Resources Commission,
it was pointed out that many millions of dollars worth of
damage could be expected if this permission were not
granted and the possibilities of health hazards would be
enlarged, as well as the ultimate consent to dump or re-
develop, replan, and undo all the millions of dollars
worth in interceptor sewers — not to disposal plants,
but to the Detroit River.
Why does the City of Detroit have to take on
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John Chascsa
more sewers from Dearborn, Macomb County, and Oakland
County, and have to ask permission to dump raw sewage in-
to a public Detroit River Stream? In "Power and Fluids"
publication (winter of 1955) a plan of the Detroit sewer
system appeared and it shows many pumping stations but
only one disposal plant. Wouldn't it be more prudent
to install treatment plants instead of interceptor
sewers and pumping stations?
Do we hawe to read in the Detroit News and
other publications (such as: the Monroe News, Toledo
Blade, and Cleveland Plain Dealer) that "Detroit Asks
Permission to Pollute Detroit River", July 3, 1963; on
August 23, 1963 "Pontiac Water Center Hailed as Link to
Detroit"; August 24, 1963 "City of Detroit Offers Sewer
Deals to Suburbs"; Why? You can get the answer at the end
of the July 24, 1963 press article, "Pollution of Clinton
(which empties into the Lake St. Glair) is an Added Threat
to Detroit's Water Supply". Isn't that something to get
excited over? After you have read the rest of the material
I am enclosing, ask yourself if we are unreasonable in
wondering why you may permit such action when it takes
away all the incentive for communities such as ours to
try to build and expand,,
We used to drink Lake Erie water without
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John Chasesa
filtering or processing, but now, it is almost out of the
question because of the cost; why? Again, I refer to the
news clippings and the testimony given at the 1962 confer-
ence held at Detroit by the U. S. Public Health Services.
I ask, are we to be known as a State that is a "Water
Wonderland" or a "Water Blunderland"?
On August 30, 1963 an article appeared in
the Detroit News, "State Upset by U. S. Gall for River
Pollution Talks"; as you can see, we could go on and on.
This is why I feel it would be of the utmost benefit to
all concerned if you would call a special meeting for
those that I have mentioned (and any others who may be
interested) within the next two weeks. I hope the
meeting can be held in Monroe, or where the Lake Erie
Cleanup Committee started, (Estral Beach or Newport).
There are many other ways this action can be
averted in the future. Every means should be explored to
protect the health of all the Michigan Citizens not just
those of Detroit.
Hoping to have a favorable reply in the very
near future, I remain
Sincerely,
John Chascsa, President
Lake Erie Cleanup Committee
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1193
John Chasesa
STATE OF MICHIGAN
OFFICE OF THE GOVERNOR
LANSING
April 13, 1965
Mr. John Chascsa, President
Lake Erie Cleanup Committee
Box 156
Newport, Michigan
Dear Mr. Chasesa:
This will acknowledge your letter of
April 5, 19^5>relative to the forthcoming meeting at
Cleveland on water pollution in Lake Erie.
While I am intensely interested in the
well-being of Lake Erie and plan to attend or be repre-
sented at the meeting, I should point out that the
arrangement has been solely by Governor Rhodes and my
position will be that of an invited conferee.
As to attendance by Canadian representatives,
I understand that Governor Rhodes has invited the Inter-
national Joint Commission, which will bring in Canadian
interests and also indicates that he has quite possibly
asked other Canadian authorities also.
I am looking forward to this conference with
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John Chasesa
much interest and am confident that it will contribute
to the advancement of our mutual interests in this great
internatioal water resource.
Sincerely,
GEORGE ROMNEY
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John Chascsa
POLLUTION
EVERYBODY'S FIGHT
By JOHN CLARK HUNT
One would think that the Pacific Northwest,
a region blessed with shining streams, rivers and lakes,
would have clean, pure water for every purpose. True,
the high country snowbanks are still clean and pure.
Rain falls on millions of acres of national forests and
trickles down to feed these streams and rivers. This
water is clear and clean. But what happens to it after
it leaves the high beauty of the Rockies and the Cascades
and the shining green of the forest?
As an example let's trace the Snake River
to see what man has done to it. The Snake, rich in
history and the lore of Indians, mountain men, and the
wild frontier, is born in one of the spectacularly beauti-
ful spots of the nation. It begins at Shoshone and Lewis
Lakes in Yellowstone National Park between Yellowstone
Lake and Jackson Hole. At first it is a wild, sparkling
mountain stream. Then it enters Jackson Lake, emerges
larger and stronger, and roars down a vicious canyon
where Wilson Price Hunt and his American Fur Company com-
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John Chasesa
panions, known as the Astorians, almost died of starvation
and exertion in l8ll when they tried to follow the canyon
west to establish the trading post at Astoria, Oregon.
In its mad race the Snake soon reaches
lower elevations and the valleys of Idaho. Here pollution
begins.
A Public Health Service report shows that
approximately 550,000 people live in the Upper Snake
River Basin. In 1960, fifty-nine towns and cities and
one hundred fifty-six industries were discharging waste
into the Snake and its tributaries. No doubt there are
more by now. Only eighteen percent of these had adequate
sewage treatment facilities, and pollution was increasing
every day. In fact, the pollution load pouring into the
Snake was equal to the waste from a population of 2,400,000.
Most of this was caused by twenty-four food processing plants,
Further down the river in the Lewiston-Idaho
area the situation is as bad or worse. At a water pollution
meeting at Lewiston early this year it was reported that
several towns were adding to the pollution load but these
were of little consequence compared to the waste poured
into the Snake and Glearwater rivers by food processing
plants and particularly by Potlatch Forests Inc. This
one wood products plant, according to a statement by
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John Chascsa
the Public Health Service, is discharging industrial waste
and sewage from its work force equivalent to the raw sewage
from a population of 299,000 people.
Murray Stein, Chief of the Public Health
Service Water Pollution Control Enforcement Branch in
Washington, D. C., told the conference that a Federal
study of the pollution showed it to be of an interstate
nature and therefore subject to abatement under the Federal
Water Pollution Control Act. He said that the Public
Health Service would work with Idaho and Washington in
extending the study with a report to be completed and
i
available by January 1, 1965. After that date a reason-
able time -- perhaps two years -- would be allowed for the
completion of water pollution abatement in the area.
The Snake River empties into the Columbia,
the river to the West, which was the home of more than a
score of Indian tribes and was the canoe and pirogue
highway from the Pacific to the great inland country
of the United States and Canada, the trail of Lewis and
Clark, Wilson Price Hunt, and Captain Bonneville. The
Columbia is a big river. Its current was fast and its
waters were alive with salmon and steelhead, the big
sea-going trout -- until the white man began building
dams to change it into a series of lakes and loaded its
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John Chasesa
tributaries with many kinds of pollution.
The Yakima River Basin is another pollution
problem. It is an important tributary of the Columbia,
draining about 5,000 square miles east of the Cascades in
Washington. Some 200,000 people live in the Yakima basin.
All of the communities have sewage treatment facilities
and most of the industries not connected to municipal sewer
systems have some type of water treatment of their own.
But in spite of the facilities, which have all been built
in recent, years, pollution is serious and the low percent-
age of oxygen in the river below Yakima often becomes
critical.
THE LOWER COLUMBIA IS A SEWER
On down the Columbia there is Camas, Washington,
with its paper mill; and then the cities of Vancouver and
Longview and several small towns with woodworking plants.
The Willamette River enters from the south carrying a
load of pollution from Portland, Oregon City, Salem and
Eugene, Oregon.
The Columbia from the Camas-Vancouver area and
the confluence of the Willamette downstream to the Pacific
Ocean is a sewer. Commercial fishermen often find that
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John Chasesa
the goop of pollution loads their nets until they can raise
them only with extreme difficulty. That is how bad pollution
has become in the lower Columbia. It is as bad, or worse,
than it has ever been. This enormous mess will be cleaned
up only when strong measures have been taken and agreements
honored.
In 1959 the Willamette River at Portland was
described in this way--''0ne swallow would contain enough
germs to make a person deathly sick." There were eighty
outfalls pouring untreated sewage and commercial waste in-
to the river. The Public Health Service and the Oregon
State Sanitary Authority got tough. They told Portland to
live up to her responsibility or face a suit in which she
knew she could not possibly defend herself. What has been
the result? Many millions of dollars have been spent building
sewage treatment plants. But to date not enough have been
built for some untreated sewage and some industrial poison
is still drained into the river. The condition of the water
is still considerably below that of the Sanitary Authority's
minimum standard.
WORST POLLUTION PROBLEM
What appears to be the worst pollution
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John Chasesa
problem in the Northwest is that of Puget Sound. Many
streams and rivers flow into this large estuary. They
carry waste from numerous towns, cities and industries.
With the best of cooperation and dedicated effort the
condition would be difficult to control, but with ag-
gravated stalling it is serious.
A report published in 1962 by the Public
Health Service and the State of Washington Pollution Con-
trol Commission states--"Seven pulp and paper mills in
Puget Sound and the Strait of Juan de Fuca area are con-
testing the Wasington Pollution Control Commissions's
order requiring the mills to control the pollution created
by them."
The report told of the efforts made by state
officials since 19^0 to bring about an abatement of pollution
at these seven mills. But the Commission is patient. It
says a reasonable solution can be found and points to the
record. Of the 532 industrial plants subject to permit
regulations in the Puget Sound-Juan de Fuca area 493 are
in compliance with effluent requirements established by
the state--an average of 93 percent.
A last minute check with the Public Health
Service indicates that prospects do appear better for
sol'ving the pollution problem on both the Snake River and
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John Chasesa
on Puget Sound.
It has been reported that the State of Idaho
will take action to enforce pollution control at the in-
dustrial plants along the Snake. It is expected that waste
disposal facilities will be built within less than two
years to prevent solids from reaching the river.
The Washington Pollution Control Commission
has now issued operating permits to the seven mills which
have been problems for more than twenty years. The State
says that the mills have made some improvements and are de-
veloping plans for constructing waste disposal facilities.
In the meantime the Public Health Service and the Washington
Pollution Control Commission are continuing a study of Puget
Sound pollution. The study has been underway for over two
years and has cost the Federal agency $780,000 with another
$300,000 to be spent in fiscal year 1965.
ACTION REQUIRES SCIENTIFIC PROOF
In a suit involving two state of Washington
corporations, Olympia Oyster Co., Inc., vs. Rayonier,
Inc., the U. S. District Court judge said in dismissing
the case last February, that he was convinced beyond a
reasonable doubt that the evidence presented contained no
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John Chasesa
issue of fact for the jury to determine. The Rayonier case
involved dumping sulphite waste into Oakland Bay. Rayonier,
however, like many companies, had a state permit to dis-
charge a certain amount of waste per week into the water;
the court said that the plaintiff failed to meet scientific
standards of proof to show that Rayonier had exceeded its
waste quota.
A word of caution should be added here. Often
emotion-charged accusations or a tendency to go into court
with a lack of proof or with unsubstantiated charges hurts
the conservationists cause. Too often newspaper headlines
indict, t**y, and convict the accused company in one terse
headline; too often an emotional]y aroused public assumes
that if the company has been hauled into court it must be
guilty of a violation. No one contends, of course, that
allowing a certain amount of pollution of our rivers and
streams is good; but in the eyes of the court, laws which
allow such "partial pollution" are valid, and if the vio-
lation is unproven, the court must uphold the law in favor
of the defendant.
SEVEN MILLS CAUSE 58.3# OF THE POLLUTION
The latest action to abate serious and long-
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John Chascsa
standing pollution problems in the Northwest was taken in
May, 1964, this time by the Oregon State Sanitary Authority.
After careful study the Authority released a
7^ page report showing that seven pulp and paper mills are
causing 53.3 percent of the pollution in the Willamette
River, the principal stream in western Oregon and the drain-
age of the Willamette Basin in which the bulk of Oregon's
population lives.
The report predicts that if the mills continue
to allow their loads of waste to reach the river after the
cities and communities have completed their sewage disposal
plants the mills will account for 82.6 percent of the
pollution by December 1966. These were the mills listed
as offenders:
Crown Zellerbach Corp. (a sulphite plant),
West Linn; Publishers Paper Co. (sulphite), Oregon City;
Spaulding Pulp & Paper Co. (sulphite), Newberg; Columbia
River Paper Co. (Oregon Pulp and Paper), (sulphite), Salem;
Crown Zellerbach Corp. (sulphite),' Lebanon; Western Kraft
Corp. (a kraft plant), Albany; Weyerhaeuser Company (kraft),
Springfield. The sulphite plants are listed separately be-
cause their pollution in the Willamette is reported to be
much more serious than that of the kraft plants.
During August and September of 1963 a minimum
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John Chascsa
daily dissolved oxygen content of only 2.0 parts per million
was recorded in Portland's harbor. The minimum permitted
by Oregon's strong pollution law is 5.0 parts per million.
Slime growths were found to be excessive. So were fiber
and other settleable solids contained in pulp and paper mill
effluents which have created'bottom sludge deposits. It is
obvious that salmon and steelhead runs cannot be maintained
nor water recreation continued in such filthy water.
Concern is felt for the 70 million Chinook salmon planted
in the Willamette during the spring of 1964 by the State
Fish Commission and the U. S. Pish and Wildlife Service.
It is doubted that these fish can return and spawn success-
fully during 1966, 1967 and 1968 unless the water quality
has been improved.
The Oregon State Sanitary Authority is holding
a series of meetings with the pulp and paper companies to
learn the steps each mill can take to reduce pollution to
>.
meet the required water purity standard. A date for com-
pliance will be set after the meetings are concluded.
WATER NEEDS FOR THE FUTURE
The question is — what are we really doing to
stop it?
Our population is growing rapidly. In 1900
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John Chasesa
there were 76 million Americans. In 1950 there were 150
million. In 1960 there were 180 million. By 1980 it is
expected that our population will reach 260 million. Ob-
viously the more people there are the more water we have to
have and the more sewage there will be. In the past 100
years water consumption in the United States has risen from
a few gallons a day per person to about seven hundred gallons
daily per person. Today the nation is using approximately
323 billion gallons of water daily. Of this amount, in-
dustry uses l6o billion gallons; irrigation, l4l billion;
municipal, 22 billion. In 1980 it will jump to 597 billion
gallons per day, with industry using 39^ billion; irrigation,
166 billion; and municipal, 37 billion.
It takes an ocean of water to maintain our
jobs--l,400 gallons to produce a dollar's worth of steel;
nearly 200 gallons for a dollar's worth of paper; 500 gallons
to manufacture a yard of wool and 320 gallons to make a ton
of aluminum. Water quality and quantity requires careful
planning and only clean water will do for most of our needs,
So, the water supply must be protected to keep it clean or
it must be treated each time it is used until it is clean.
WHAT TO DO?
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John Ghascsa
Anyone who has taken the trouble to check knows
that it will cost a fantastic amount of money to cope with
the tide of pollution. But if we can spend billions to put
a man on the moon we can afford clean water. First, the
nation will have to exert itself to wipe out the backlog of
pollution and start even with the problem. Then, each year,
it must build new facilities, expand and rebuild old ones
to keep abreast of the increase in population and industrial
expansion.
One thing that we must not tolerate is the
building of new towns, subdivisions or factories without
adequate sewage facilities to guarantee that they will not
add to the pollution burden. We know that the job can be
done. The whole job—for old towns and cities and factories
as well as the new ones. Since 1965 when the first Federal
water pollution control legislation was passed, about 4,500
communities have built sewage treatment plants. Others are
under construction. Federal grants of approximately 400
million dollars have been approved. And for each Federal
dollar granted, local communities have spent five dollars
for waste disposal.
THE BRIGHT SIDE OF THE COIN
The outstanding example of successful co-
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John Chasesa
operative pollution control is the work of the Ohio River
Authority. States, cities, town, villages and industries
have worked together to clean up the filthy Ohio river
from Pittsburgh to the Mississippi. They had to do it
if they were to continue to use the water and live be-
side the river. Now, they are proud of the job they
have done.
In the Pacific Northwest another pollution
headache shows some promise of finally being solved. In
the very heart of the city of Seattle is beautiful Lake
Washington. Like some other waters in the fast growing
region it became polluted and infested with algae. A
metropolitan organization was formed a few years ago to
clean up the lake. It is succeeding in spite of the fact
that all towns and communities are said not to be co-
operating. In ten years Seattle expects its big, jewel-
like lake to be clean. It will be an important victory.,
The rest of the country must do a similar
job. The pressure for clean water will never stop. It
cannot. Conservation groups, including The American Forestry
Association, report that pollution is the topic most on
the minds of many of their members today. In days gone by,
the AFA could meet in almost any part of the country and
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John Chascsa
talk forestry and only forestry. But not any more.
Today, more and more members are saying, "Fine, fine —
but what are you doing about stream pollution?"
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John Chasesa
CITY OF DETROIT
DEPARTMENT REPORT £
INFORMATION COMMITTEE
WO 5-4200 EXT. 7250
TOM McPHAIL
CONSTRUCT
Two projects make up the major portion of
the $184 million, ^0-year sewer construction program
outlined Thursday by the National Sanitation Foundation.
The construction program was part of a compre-
hensive report on future sewerage needs of the six-county
Detroit area delivered to a special meeting of the
Supervisors Inter-County Committee and Detroit area
business and community leaders at the Veterans Memorial
Building.
The Foundation also recommended development
of $65 million worth of additional sewage treatment
facilities after 1975.
The largest sewer project is the North In-
terceptor, a 112-mile network of pipe that would collect
all sewage from Macomb County and from part of Oakland
County.
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John Chascsa
It would be connected to the Detroit De-
partment of Water Supply (DWS) sewage treatment plant
at 9300 W. Jefferson.
Communities that would be served by the
interceptor include Mt. Clemens, Romeo, Utica, Warren,
Rochester.
Estimated cost of the interceptor and five
companion pumping stations was set at $124.2 million.
The report suggested that the first portion should be
completed by 1966 and the entire network done by the
year 2000.
The other major project is the Huron River-
Hannan Road Interceptor.
It is recommended to serve much of Wash-
tenaw County—including Ann Arbor and Ypsilanti--and
parts of Wayne and Oakland Counties.
The Foundation recommended that planning
for the interceptor should be finished by 1970 and
construction completed by 1990.
Total cost was estimated at $28.6 million.
A major sewage treatment plant should be
developed at the outlet of the Huron River-Harmon Road
Interceptor,the report urged.
Cost estimates for the plant ranged from
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John Chasesa
$11.5 million to $37.1 million, depending on capacity.
Additional capacity also was recommended
for the DWS treatment plant. It now receives some 80
per cent of the sewage flow in the metropolitan area.
The report urged expansion after 1975 at an
estimated cost of $53.5 million, noting that an improve-
ment program now in progress will provide sufficient
capacity until then.
The report stated that local governments
should keep the responsibility for "building local
lateral and sub-collector sewers.
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John Chascsa
"THE RAPE OF A WATER WONDERLAND"
A gruesome title, no doubt? But true.
In the July 1962 issue of the Readers
Digest there appeared an article on page 151 titled
"The Rape of our Southern Mountains."
Every American should have read it. Every
voting American should have read it. Every voting American
should have remembered it. Every penny-budgeting house-
wife and sportsman and every conscientious Christian
should have read it and done something about it, even if
he only hung his head in shame.
To commercialize in the gullibility of poor
\
hills folks is not Christian. To abuse the stature of
being a businessman by destroying the life blood of those
of our citizens through so-called "shrewd business
manipulation" is certainly un-American and un-Christian.
When we, as individuals, resign ourselves to
a state of deplorable complacency by accepting the "do-
nothing" bureaucrats who spend our money, as well as set
the amount of tribute we must pay to maintain these
bureaucracies, as something we have no power or say-so
about, then we are lost.
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John Chascsa
We elect men to represent us in various
phases of Government to do our bidding and to help us
determine the best course to follow. Unfortunately,
only a very few take their oath seriously. Very few
attend all sessions that are held in Washington and in
our State and county legislative capitols.
We have created agencies and commissions and
various study groups, and, frankly, I believe the committee
studying the sex life of the gnat is about the most capable
of submitting an acceptable report — if there is such a
committee.
Since the late 1870's we have had one after
another anti-pollution committee created. We have had a
biological study going on in the Great Lakes for many years,
with geologists, biologists, conservationists, health
authorities, and many, many more who have compiled tons and
tons of reports. In the past forty, fifty or sixty years we
have bragged of our intelligence and know-how, to do more
and better than any other nation on earth. We have proven
that man can fly, send rockets and missiles any place on
earth and probably to the moon, and we haven't skimped on
the cost of these experiments, in spite of the staggering
amount. Yes, we should be proud of our so-called accomplish-
ments. We should be very proud and very humble in
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John Chasesa
dealing with our less fortunate neighbors, also,no matter
who they are.
The t rip -^to—the -moon commission has never
been denied their request for funds - these are always
available.
The Committees on Pollution study, water,
health, public safety, sanitation and many environmental
aspects of our well being have been belittled and slighted
and pushed aside after almost a whole decade of studies,
until today we suddenly realize the importance of safe
clean water. Of what earthly use are all the facts and
figures gathered in the past fifty years to us? We permit
lobbyists to legally have our laws changed to suit their
clients wants. We disregard the Riparian Rights of the
little guy, (who is all important at election time) and
forgotten after election.
In 1961 Governor, John B. Swainson was asked
to call the United States Public Health Service in to
study the Pollution problem in the Detroit River, Lake
Erie, Lake St. Glair, Huron River, River Raisin and
many smaller tributaries leading into our lakes. What
was the real reason? Did someone feel sorry for the
plight of the residents along the Detroit River, Lake
Erie, or was there another reason? Did the pipe dream
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John Chasesa
of the Detroit and Wayne County Planners back fire when
they found their plan for another Italian Venus type of
island chain, in the Harsens Island area,filtered silt
into their water supply station at Belle Isle? Remember
the screaming public demanding to know what went wrong?
Why the bad taste? Why the industrial waste, etc? Was
this a way to get Federal Funds to pipe water from Lake
Huron? Perhaps it should be interesting to note the
chain of events prior to and after the S.O.S. for all the
people under Federal jurisdiction to come to the aid of
the large Metropolis of Detroit. 0 yes! we all pay
Federal taxes and only the large cities and those with
pull are worthy of getting any finances for the things
needed to maintain good health and other necessities of
which we hear and are told, we should have, to be good
citizens and healthy Americans.
Most all communities cannot afford even a
trip to Washington to seek assistance. However, one of
our more ambitious Mayors requested fifty thousand dollars
to maintain an office in Washington to be nearer the source
of Federal grants, loans and gifts. Thanks to Council-
woman Mary Beck, it was defeated.
You may say, what has all this to do with
Pollution? Well; let us look back a bit, on the 2?th and
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John Chasesa
and 28th of March 19^2, a Conference was held at The
Veterans Memorial Hall in Detroit. The findings of
the United States Public Health Service substantiated
that there was definite cause for a thorough investigation
into the cause of Pollution. This was substantiated by
written and oral evidence by many State agencies, the
Army Corps of Engineers, various Sportsmans Clubs and
a Citizens Group known as the Lake Erie Cleanup Committee,
who not only submitted written evidence, but also twenty
nine jars of water in various degrees of Pollution, taken
at twenty nine separate locations, raring from the Toledo,
Ohio State line to and including River Raisin, Lake Erie,
Swan Creek, Huron River, Detroit River and River Rouge.
A statement was made at this conference that
the people in the Lake Erie and Monroe area couldn't
possibly have such a problem. One of Detroit's leading
citizenry even went so far as to state that; a little re-
fuse doesn't hurt anyone and that perhaps he would be asked
to put diapers on the Wild Ducks flying over these waters
so it could stay clean. A very intelligent remark to be
made by a man who is looked up to by many. In recent
statements to the Press he ridiculed the U. S. Public
Health Personnel for doing a thorough job. (I know it was
thorough, because I personally followed all or almost all
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John Chasesa
°f the study) when others of our organization were able
they also followed the progress. According to this man's
statement this was all a waste of time and uncalled for.
The water quality is so much more improved and has been on
the up-grade since 1940. If this water is so much better,
then the jars we have on display on the table must be
fakes? 'However these don't seem to coincide with the
statement made by Mr. Remus.
On March 27, 1964 the Water Resources granted
permission for the Stauffer Chemical Corporation to dump
$4,000 worth of chloride into the River Raisin.
May 14, 1964 State Conservation Board takes
action to get two additional parks.
March 24, 1964, Home Canning and Blissfield
Canning resented the permission granted by State Water
Resources.
March 28, 1964, Representative has Bill
passed to permit boats under twenty-five feet to dump
waste into our waters.
July 27, 1964, river waste in Clinton River
forces Utica to ask for Detroit water.
I also submit clippings to show how much
Lake Erie has deteriorated. As Justice William 0. Douglas
stated, sewage treatment plants not dams are needed.
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John Ghascsa
"SUB COMMITTEE REPORT OF PROPOSED
USE OF OUR LAKE ERIE SHORE LINE"
MANY USES OF THE SHORES OF LAKE ERIE ARE
EVIDENT AND AMONG THEM ARE RECREATION, INDUSTRIAL, RE-
SIDENTIAL, PORT FACILITIES AND WILD FOWL AND SMALL GAME
SANCTUARY.
LET US START AT POINTS MOUILLEE, LOCATED
JUST BELOW GIBRALTER AND AT THE MOUTH OF THE HURON RIVER
AND LAKE ERIE.
1) This area is best suited for recreation
and for private enterprise, such as marinas, water side
motels, summer recreational spas and scenic rest areas,
as well as a number of other income producing enterprising
ventures. This could also be a continuation of the Huron
Metropolitan Park authority project, as well as a beach
area.
2) Swan Creek and Estral Beach area - With
little financial effort and a determination to develop a
small craft harbor, this area could be turned into a
financial boon for Monroe County as well as Berlin Town-
ship. Estral beach offers a very large area for small
craft refuge and Swan Creek offers a most enviable position
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John Chascsa
for the accommodation of small boat races,, rowing contests
and many related fund-raising activities. There is room
for the development of waterside motels, hotels, restaurants,
launching sites, fishing and many other related activities.
3) Stony Point, Brest Bay area. There are
no better facilities for boating, fishing, swimming and
other water-borne sports as well as suitable residential
facilities if and when developed further.
b) Bay Crest, Woodland Beach, Indian Trails,
Detroit Beach area, located near the State-operated Park,
Sterling Park. Ideal for the development of all-year-
round housing and recreational facilities. There are
excellent fishing and swimming facilities (when the water
is not polluted), a magnet that draws people to this
area. This could be a tourist attraction for the area
as well as a haven for small boat enthusiasts.
5) Sterling State Park is an ideal location
for tourists to be drawn to. It is the entrance to the
Water Wonderland we brag so much of and find the people
do not care to use for some unknown reason, except that
perhaps the signs that are posted scare the people away.
No one cares to oppose a sign that states that the water
in the area is not safe for swimming or recreation. The
site offers a possible trailer camp site, a tent site-
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John Chasesa
a launching site and a very (or could be) ideal picnic
site. Ideally located for Ohio, Indiana and Pennsylvania
and Michigan residents to get to in a little time, and
close enough to employment that it could be an ideal
location.
6) River Raisin and Port of Monroe area -
This area could be developed into a very choice controlled
industrial area as well as possible annex to Sterling State
Park. A very fine location for a Port facility.
7) Plum Greek, Bolles Harbor, Luna Peir,
La Plaisance Bay and all the Shore line to Toledo, is an
ideal location for small boat facilities as well as other
diversified recreational activities and a small boat
harbor. Below Luna Peir ideally suited for controlled
industrial development.
This whole area is easily reached and travel
is ideal and should be developed.
Submitted by John Chasesa
Sub-Committee Member
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John Chasesa
ON POLLUTION
Editor, Evening News:
I am 9 and I am interested in fish. I have
been reading about water pollution and how it kills fish,
I was wondering what the city of Monroe is doing about
water pollution.
David Strayer
820 Hollywood Dr.
February 17, 1965
Editor's Note:
Pollution is not a problem that can be solved
locally, either by Monroe or any other single community.
Millions of dollars are being spent in a co-operative effort
to solve the problem, or at least to minimize it.
Monroe Mayor William J. Agusta said the water-
pollution problem is being attacked by local, county, state,
federal and international officials. He said Monroe is
awaiting results, due next month, of an extensive survey
undertaken by the Army Corps of Engineers which is ex-
pected to pinpoint the origin of pollution from the
Detroit River to regions in Ohio. The engineers will
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John Chasesa
make recommendations to solve the problem.
Dr. G. D. Barrett, director of the Monroe
County Health Department, said the Public Health Service
is completing a 2|- year study of the problem which in-
volved taking water samples from lakes, rivers and
streams in this region.
We congratulate you, David, for taking an
interest in such an important civic problem at an early
age. Keep on being interested, interest your friends
and you and they interest grownups. When enough people
are concerned, a way will be found to cure conditions
which now exist.
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John Cha.scsa
LAKE ERIE CLEANUP COMMITTEE
NEWPORT, MICHIGAN - 48l66
March 30, 1965
Master David Strayer
820 Hollywood Drive
Monroe, Michigan
Dear David:
How does one answer a nine year old boys'
letter? It is difficult, but I will try.
Though you probably have never heard of me,
I feel as though I have known you all of your young life.
You see, I have two boys and four girls and they too
were nine years old one time.
Like yourself, they enjoyed to swim, boat
and fish and though they are now much older, they still
en.joy the waters.
My children were able to swim in Lake Erie
without too much fear up until five years ago. Since then
however, my youngest daughter is unable to swim in Lake
Erie because whatever pollutes the water makes her ill and
causes her skin to erupt. I can recall when as a boy, I
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John Chasesa
could drink this water without any ill effect but today
it would be foolhardy to even try.
In 1961, Mary Margaret Revel attempted to
swim a long distance down the Detroit River to Lake Erie
and to Toledo. In August 1962, Barbara Smoot tried to
swim from Amherstburg, Ontario to the River Raisin at
Monroe. Both girls became very 111 from the pollution
in both the Detroit River and Lake F.rie.
Yes David, many tests have been made of the
water in Lake Erie and the streams emptying into it, but
it seems that there is still enough room to store addi-
tional research data and we probably will not see the day
when actual efforts are put into motion to once agaJ.n
make these waters safe.
Pollution which starts at the kitchen sinks;
at the drains of factories and at the sewers of munici-
palities wind-up eventually in our rivers and lakes.
Yes David, studies have been conducted for
the past forty years or more and many are being conducted
at the present time. Many Village, County and State
Committees are functioning as representatives of those
of us who are paying their salaries and they certainly
have not given us our dollars worth. Then too, David,
there is the big overshadowing benevolence of some In-
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John Chasesa
dustries who tell us, the public, that they will give
us a playground; a nice large swimming pool; a nice money-
contribution for a Civic Center and many other good things.
All this to be given at no cost to the communities
affected, in return for permission to pollute our rivers
and lakes. Yes David, no cost I
Let us see how this works - for the sake
of something to say. When some industries move into
a community, the air becomes white with lime dust; red
with iron ore dust; black with coal dust and on top of
all this, SMELLY. The water that I could swim in as a boy
of nine, drink without filtering and fish in, is now
dirty, slimy and all colors of the rainbow. Very little
fishing now -- to drink the water would be suicide and
swimming is only for the dare-devil types.
Yes David, our waters have become like "Russian.
Roulette". One never knows when Hepatities, Dermatlties,
Typhoid or perhaps something worse will get you. In 1962,
our Water Resources Commission and our Health Department
and several of our Commissions told us "you people have
nothing to worry about in Monroe County. The siltation
that is prevalent in the lake is natural and cannot be
controlled." They failed however to mention how many times
a day barge after barge brought waste from dredging and
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John Ghascsa
other sources and dumped it into Lake Erie. They also
did not mention the mess made by dumping the waste from
River Raisin, River Rouge and the Detroit River into
Lake Erie and the resulting end - the destruction of all
the beach areas in Michigan and Ohio which border Lake
Erie.
Oh yes - they also do not mention the eight
dumping grounds from Cleveland to the mouth of the Detroit
River. Yes David, educated adults deprive you of your
right to accept or reject something which you have a
right to. It is not considered wrong, it is Politics
and you just do not have a voice in the matter.
If you should pile your rubbish alongside
of your neighbors' fence and it* spills over into his
yard, you are wrong. If you were to build an outhouse
at the rear of your yard and it smells up the neighborhood,
you most certainly are wrong and could be put into jail
and looked upon as an idiot for daring to endanger the
health of your neighbors. But - not if you pollute the
rivers or lakes.
Yes David, when you talk of these things to
come of our public protectors, they say, water can be
made safe for human consumption. They speak a partial
truth however, for riot so long ago in Colorado the water
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John Chasesa
in a small community was treated so very thoroughly that
it caused the Hospitals in the area to be filled with
"nine year old " children as well as others over and under
nine.
David, when you grow up, I hope you will be
able to help make people realize that everyone should be
considered when water and air is to be polluted by anyone.
I hope when you are a man that other men will have de-
veloped, not only a rocket to the moon, fresh water from
sea water, missiles that can be sent soaring five thousand
miles or more,, but also a healthy respect for their fellow
man by purifying all industrial and municipal waste as
well.
Well David, I hope you will remember that there
are many groups like the Lake Erie Cleanup Committee,
who are fighting to clean up the air and water for the
next generation - of which you are a part. If the men
of our generation cannot find the time to eliminate
pollution, then it will have to be done by the Mothers
and their sons and daughters.
Let us learn to be honest with one another.
We can, then, once more hold our heads high.
God Bless you David and guide you through
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John Chasesa
your life....
Your friend,,
Sincerely.,
JOHN CHASCSA, President
Lake Erie Cleanup Committee
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1229
MR. STEIN: I would now like to give you
what the schedule for tomorrow and subsequently is going
to be.
We are going to have the municipalities and
the industries, and here is the tentative line-up:
I, The City of Detroit.
2. The City of Wyandotte.
3. Grosse lie Township.
4. Supervisory Intercounty Committee.
Then we go to the Great Lakes Steel, McLouth
Steel, Allied Chemical and the various divisions, Scott
Paper, Wyandotte Chemical, Pennsalt Chemicals, Monsanto,
Ford Motor Company; and there may be a statement from
duPont.
So, at the present time, we shall stand
recessed until 9:30 tomorrow morning.
Thank you*
(Whereupon, at 4:55 p0m., an adjournment
was taken until Thursday, June 17, 1965, at 9:30 a.m.)
* U. S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE : 1965 O - 792-121 (Vol. 4)
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