1     UNITED STATES ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY

 2                   WASHINGTON,  B.C.

 3                        	oOo	

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 5                    PUBLIC  MEETING

 6 i(
                            on
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      MODIFICATION OF SECONDARY TREATMENT REQUIREMENT
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12                  FEBRUARY  22,  1978
                        9:40  a.m.
13 "

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15                 CONFERENCE ROOMS A-H
             Environmental Protection  Agency
16                      Region  IX
                    215 Fremont Street
17           San Francisco, California 94105

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23   Reported by:

24     THOMAS R. WILSON,  CSR, CM
       (CSR No.  2052)
25 "

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INDEX
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION:


CHARLES PALMTAG, Councilman, City of
Watsonville, Watsonville, California
DON SALTARELLI , Orange County Sanitary
Districts; Tustin, California

DENNIS HARDY, Alaska District, Corps of
Engineers, Alaskan Air Command, United States
Air Force, Anchorage, Alaska

RICHARD W. KING, City of San Diego Water
Utilities Department, San Diego, California
LARRY F. WALKER, California State Water
Resources Control Board, Sacramento,
Cal if orn i a
KENNETH S. KAMLET , National Wildlife Federation
Washington, D. C.

JAMES F. PERRY, Watsonville Food Processors,
Aptos , California
JOHN F. SPENCER, Assistant Director, Washington
State Department of Ecology, Olympia,
Washington
JOHN STRATFORD, Humboldt Bay Wastewater
Authority, Eureka, California

DAVID L. PHILLIPS, South Essex Sewerage
District, Salem, Massachusetts
LAURI ADAMS, Environmental Defense Fund,
Berkeley, California

WILLIAM A. ANDERSON, Kennedy Engineers,
San Francisco, California
ARTHUR A. HENZELL, Goleta Sanitary District,
Santa Barbara, California

IVAN DAY, Lakehaven Sewer District, Redondo,
Wash ington


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                                                     11
1                         INDEX

2                                                   Page

3   LESTER G. EVANS, Encina Joint Powers Sewerage
      Agency, Carlsbad, California                  145
4
    FRED HARPER, AMSA, Fountain Valley, California  148
5
    RIMMON C. FAY, Venice, California               153
6
    ROBERT M. WILKINSON, City Councilman, City
7     of Los Angeles                                166

8   GORDON GABRIELSON, Municipality of Metropolitan
      Seattle, Seattle, Washington                  170
9
    DR. 0. V. NATARAJAN, Administrator, Guam
10     Environmental Protection Agency, Agana, Guam  179

11   PATI FAIAI, Office of the Governor of Samoa,
      American Samoa                                185
12
    JACK LAMBIE, Ventura Regional Sanitation,
13     California Association of Sanitation
      Districts, Ventura, California                188
14
    NACHSA SIREN, Trust Territory Environmental
15     Protection Board, Saipan, Mariana Islands     198

16   GERRY MAIER, Commonwealth of the Northern
      Mariana  Islands, Saipan, Mariana Islands      200
17
    JAMES S. KUMAGAI, Department of Health, State
18     of Hawaii, Honolulu, Hawaii                   203

19   ALAN FRIEDLAND, Chief, Bureau of Sanitary
      Engineering   for the City and County  of
20     San Francisco,  San Francisco, California      209

21   JAMES McGRATH,  California Coastal  Commission,
      San Francisco,  California                     216
22
    WILLARD  BASCOM, Southern California Coastal
23     Water  Research  Project, 1500  Imperial
      Highway,  El  Segundo, California                231
24
    GERALD N.  DUNN, U.S.  Army Corps of Engineers,
25     Alaska District,  for the Municipality of
      Anchorage,  Alaska                              250

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      California                                        259
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    FRANK DRYDEN,  Sanitation Districts of Los
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     Angeles, P. 0. Box 4998, Whittier,  California    263

   DAVID A. MOFFAT and JOHN  R.  FLODEN,  City  of
     Petersburg, Alaska                                277
                                                       281

   RAMON M. GUZMAN, Puerto Rico Aqueduct and
     Sewer Authority, Puerto  Rico                      289
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   KEN ENSROTH, Sierra Club,  4534£  University  Way,
     Seattle, Washington                               299
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                          INDEX
   JUDY BENDOR, 5318 Boyd Avenue,  Oakland,
                                                      Page
      Street, Santa Cruz, California                    309
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    J.  WARREN NUTE, J. WARREN NUTE, INC.,  907
13     Mission Avenue, San Rafael, California            315
   WILSON FIEBERLING, City  of  Santa  Cruz,  809 Center
   JOHN CHAPMAN, City  and  Borough  of  Sitka,
     Tryck, Nyman  & Hayes,  Anchorage,  Alaska          319
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1

2                     HEARING PANEL

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4             THOMAS  C.  JORLING,  Assistant  Administrator,
                    for Water  and  Hazardous  Materials,
                    United  States  Environmental  Protection
                    Agency,  Washington,  D.C.,  Chairman

              LISA  FRIEDMAN,  United  States  Environmental
                    Protection Agency,  Office  of the Genera!
                    Counsel, Water Quality  Division,
8                   Washington,  D.C.

9             PAUL  DE FALCO,  JR., Regional  Administrator,
                    United  States  Environmental  Protection
10                   Agency,  Region IX,  215  Fremont Street,
                    San Francisco, California  94105
11
              DONALD  DUBOIS,  Regional  Administrator
12                   United  States  Environmental  Protection
                    Agency,  Region X,  Seattle, Washington
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 1             CHAIRMAN THOMAS C. JORLING:  Good morning.




 2             I guess the first order of business is to




 3   check whether the microphones are working and the level




 4   of audibility in the back of the room.  Are we in good




 5   shape?  Okay.



 6             I would like to welcome everyone here to




 7   the Offices of Region IX which Paul  has so generously




 8   made available.  We always  like it when Paul makes  his




 9   offices available.



10             And to introduce  the other panelists at the




11   table with me, Paul De Falco, the Regional Administra-




12   tor from Region  IX;



13             Don Dubois, the Regional Administrator  from




14   Region X; and




15             Lisa Friedman, who  is a representative  of




16   the General  Counsel's Office  from headquarters and




17   has been handling the implementation of  this  program.




18              In  addition, we have  several  staff  people




19   who have worked  on  the work group,  including  Tom




20   O'Farrell, who serves as the  Cochairperson  of  the




21   work  group implementing  301(h).   And Don  Baumgartner




22   and Bob Bastion  also  have been  putting  in long and




23   hard  hours on this  provision.




24              I  have a  short statement  to set the tone  for




25   the hearing,  and then we will have  a procedure,  which .

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 1  I will articulate  at the  end  of  that,  to  follow.


 2           l_The  subject of this  public  meeting  is  the


 3  implementation  of]Section 301(h)  of  the Federal Water


 4  Pollution Control  Act  as  amended  in  December of 1977.

 .  ,              t^-^
 5  [^Section  301 (h )A authorizes EPA to  modify the  requirement


 6  of secondary  treatment for biochemical oxygen demand,


 7  suspended solids and pH in an existing discharge  from


 8  a publicly  owned treatment works  into  marine waters  if


 9  certain  criteria are met.1


10            The Federal  Water Pollution  Control Act of


11  '72 required  publicly  owned treatment  works  to  provide


12  secondary treatment of their  wastewaters  by  July  1  of


13  1977.  Publicly owned  treatment  works  on  the West Coast


14  who discharge their wastewater through ocean outfalls


15  have argued that the reduction of BOD, suspended  solids


16  and pH resulting from  secondary  treatment is not


17  necessary to  protect the  marine  environment  because  of


18  the dilution  achieved  in  some deep marine waters.


19            The Congress determined that there should  be


20  a mechanism by  which communities  making this argument


21  can test their  case before the public  in  an  administra-


22  tive process.   Under the  amendments  adopted  by  Congress


23  in 1977, those  publicly owned treatment works which


24  can show that an existing deep marine  discharge require


25  less than secondary treatment for BOD, suspended  solids

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 1  and pH may be eligible,  after  a  case-by-case  review,




 2  for modification of the  requirement  to  provide  secondar




 3  treatment.




 *            The purpose of  this  meeting  is  to  receive




 5  public views on the interpretation of  the criteria  in




 6  Section 301(h), including three  particular questions:




 7            First, criteria to apply for  modification  to




 °  the requirement for secondary  treatment.




 9            Second, the administrative procedures  for




10  approving or disapproving an application;  and,




11            Third, the criteria  for determining whether




12  the applicant has made a  satisfactory  demonstration  of




13  compliance with the statutory  criteria.




14            The implementation of  Section 301(h)  is not




15  an easy job.  I hope your testimony  will  help us to




16  better understand the issues and their  implications.




17            The statutory  criteria in  Section  301(h)




18  provide that a modification of BOD,  suspended solids




19  or pH may be granted only where  there  is  a state water




20  quality standard applicable to the pollutant  for which




21  a modification is requested.   Where  applicable  water




22  quality standards exist  for a  pollutant in the  dis-




23  charge, the municipal source can apply  for a  modifica-




24  tion from the secondary  treatment requirement for that




25  pollutant if a showing.is made that  the applicable

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water quality standards will be maintained.




          The criteria require that the modification




will not interfere with the attainment and maintenance




of that water quality which assures the protection of




public water supplies and the protection and propagatior




of a balanced, indigenous population of fish, shellfish




and wildlife, and allows recreational activities in




and on the water.




          The criteria further provide that the appli-




cant demonstrate that he has an enforceable pretreatmen




program; that no other point or nonpoint source will be




required to meet additional requirements because of a




modification of the secondary treatment requirement;




and that the volume of discharge of the pollutant will




not increase beyond that specified in the modified




permit for the period during which the modification is




ganted.




          Section 301(h) applies only to marine




discharges.  The term "marine" is defined in the




statute as follows:




          "... a discharge into deep waters of the




      territorial sea or the waters of the contiguous




      zone, or into saline estuarine waters where there




      is strong tidal movement and other hydrological




      and geological characteristics which the

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 1         Administrator determines necessary to allow




 2         compliance with Paragraph (2) of this subsection,




 3         and Section 101(a)(2) of this Act."




 4             Section 101(a)(2) of the Act calls for




 5   achievement by 1983 of water quality which provides




 6   for the protection and propagation of fish, shellfish,




 7   and wildlife and provides for recreation in and on the




 8   water wherever attainable.




 9             Congress plced the burden of demonstrating




10   eligibility for a modification of the secondary treat-




11   ment requirement solely on the applicant.  To  be




12   eligible for a modification, all applications  must be




13   made by September 24, 1978; and to be approved, they




14   must, on their face, provide sufficient  justification




15   for granting the application.




16             The burden of proof to show compliance with




17   the criteria means that before applying, applicants




18   must know,  among other things, the composition of  their




19   wastes, what industrial and non-industrial sources  are




20   contributing to their wastes, what happens to  the




21   wastes  after they are discharged,  and the  impacts  upon




22   water quality and the biota in the coastal zone.




23             As we consider  how to evaluate compliance




24   with the statutory criteria in Section  301(h), it  is




25   important to keep in mind  some of  the basic

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environmental policies established by Congress in 1972




and reaffirmed in 1977.




          The stringent criteria of Section 301(h)




reaffirm the basic policy of the Federal Water Pollutio




Control Act to restore and maintain the chemical,




physical and biological integrity of the nation's
waters.
          Congress has determined the continued
release of pollutants into the nation's waters, includ-




ing the coastal waters of the oceans, to be inconsisten




with this basic objective of restoring and maintaining




the integrity of the nation's waters.  Thus, the policy




of the Act is to move progressively toward eliminating




the discharge of the pollutants.




          The program of regulation under the Act,




including Section 301(h), anticipates moving our urban




industrial society to recycling of water and nutrients




and confining and containing the disposal of pollutants




This policy is becoming more compelling with the




growing shortages of fresh water that are occurring




not just in the arid West, but in what had previously




been thought of as water-rich coastal areas of the




nation.  The elimination of the discharge of pollutant




policy established by the 1972 Act reinforces the




growing concern over the availability of high quality

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 1   fresh water.  As we implement the law, these two




 2   imperatives must reinforce each other wherever possible




 3             The most important resource of the coastal




 4   zone is the biota.  Congress recognized this in




 5   establishing the stringent criteria in Section 301(h) .




 6   "Many of the constituents of both municipal and




 7   industrial waste are persistent organic and inorganic




 8   chemicals; chemicals about which we know very little,




 9   especially upon their entrance into the ocean and




10   their uptake into biogeochemical cycles.  Many of the




11   biota are extremely sensitive to small changes in




12   the chemistry of their environment and have the ability




13   to bioaccumulate these materials.




14             The importance of the biota, their sensitivit




15   and their ability to bioaccumulate toxicants raises




16   two issues in regulating ocean outfalls:  the concept




17   of thresholds and of assimilative capacity.




18             The assumption is made that there are




19   concentrations of any substance below which effects




20   are either nonexistent or small enough to be negligible




21   This concentration becomes the, quote, threshold for




22   effects.




23             A second tenet is that aquatic systems have




24   a capacity for absorbing wastes, including toxicants,




25   and for rendering them innocuous.  This capacity is

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often referred to as assimilative capacity and is often




assumed to be a general property of natural systems.




          The important point is that these two charac-




teristics assigned to natural systems may not be




intrinsic properties of the systems; they have, in




fact, been assigned to them for convenience in the




disposal of wastes.




          As Congress recognized in Section 301(h),




an assumption that there is an assimilative capacity




in deep ocean waters for naturally occurring organic




matter may have some justification.  However, Congress




also recognized that in our complex society, municipal




waste, especially the suspended solids,  are often




contaminated with persistent as well as  bioaccumulative




industrial toxicants for which the assimilative




capacity is nonexistent.




          Experience with  ionizing radiation, pesticide




and other toxicants shows  that there is  no objective




basis for assigning a threshold concentration for




such substances in nature  for several reasons.  The




most important reason is the capacity of living




systems for concentrating  such substances  in unpre-




dictable ways.




          The solubility of DDT in water is approxi-




mately one part per billion, yet many organisms in

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    nature contain concentrations in excess of parts per




    million and,  under certain circumstances, much higher




    concentrations.




              Most of the chlorinated hydrocarbons behave




    in this way,  simply on the basis of solubility alone.




    A regulatory  policy based on the assumption of a




    threshold for effects or an assimilative capacity for




 8   toxic pollutants, especially over time, is bound to




    fail.  The Federal Water Pollution Control Act clearly




10   recognizes this flaw.




11             While Congress recognized that evidence may




12   exist to support a modification to the secondary




13   treatment requirements from BOD, suspended solids and




14   pH,  it emphasized through the Section  301(h)  criteria




15   that the modification should not allow the discharge




16   of additional amounts of toxic pollutants, such as




17   heavy metals, synthetic organic compounds and other




18   toxicants listed under Section 307(a).




19             Since  less than secondary treatment of waste-




20   water provides very  limited removal of these  toxic




21   pollutants which are included within  the suspended




22   solids, publicly owned treatment works handling




23   domestic wastes  may  have a  lesser burden of proof to




24   demonstrate  compliance with 301(h) criteria.




25             Highlighting the  concern of toxicants,

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 1   Senator Muskie said in Senate debate on Section 301(h),




 2   and I quote as follows:




 3             "This provision for modification would be




 4         available only to systems which are providing




 5         waste treatment services to users which contribut




 6         primarily domestic-type wastes or which have




 7         sufficient control over industrial input so as




 8         to prohibit any 307-type pollutants from entering




 9         the system.



10             "Any complex system which is treating wastes




11  [       for a myriad of industrial and commercial




12         establishments within a metropolitan area could




13         never meet the requirements of this modification




14         procedure unless the control of industrial




15         input was thorough enough to assure that no




16         toxics or other incompatible pollutants pass




17         directly into the ocean environment.




18             "Primary treatment does not deal with these




19         kinds of constituents.  Therefore, their presence




20         as an input into municipal waste streams is a




21         prima facie indication that the secondary treat-




22         ment modification provision is not applicable,"




23         end of quote.




24             While we know little about the effect of




25   continued release of persistent pollutants to the

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    oceans, we do know that oceans are vital to the




    biosphere that supports all life now and for future




    generations.   Under Section 403 of the Federal Water




    Pollution Control Act, EPA must promulgate guidelines




    to protect the basic integrity of these ocean systems.




              Congress included Section 403 in 1972 in




    order to provide greater safeguards in coastal waters.




 8   The 1977 amendments retained Section 403.  Revised




    Section 403 guidelines are scheduled to be proposed




10   in March of this year.



11             Consistent with the Congressional concern




12   for toxicants and Senator Muskie's statements during




13   the Senate debate, EPA will assure that the guidelines




14   developed under Section 403 are, quote, met as a




15   condition of granting of a modification, end  of quote,




16   to the secondary treatment modification  requirement.




17   In deciding upon a modification, the decision would  be




18   rraue on the basis of  long-term effects,  even  though




19   any modification would be  limited  to a  five-year




20   period since chronic  effects  are of greatest  concern




21   in protecting the integrity of the  oceans.




22             In opening  this  public meeting,  I have




23   purposely attempted to place  the  issues  before us in




24   the broader context of Congressional  and national




25   intent to protect the  integrity  of  the  oceans.  With

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 1   this context in mind, we would like to begin hearing




 2   your thoughts on implementation of Section 301(h),




 3   including your comments on the questions posed in the




 4   February 3rd announcement of this public meeting.  To




 5   the extent possible, EPA will consider public comments




 6   made at the meeting as well as written comments sub-




 7   mitted prior to the meeting in developing proposed




 8   regulations.  I expect to propose regulations in mid-




 9   March, and those proposed regulations will include the




10   application forms so that interested marine dischargers




11   can begin preparing to meet the September 24 statutory




12   deadline for submitting an application.  Any comments




13   which are not considered prior to proposal will, of




14   course, be considered in developing the final regula-




15   tions.  Final regulations will be promulgated in early




16   June in order to give applicants the greatest amount of




17   time possible in advance of the September application




18   deadline.




19             We will first be hearing comments from any




20   elected public officials.  All other speakers who have




21   registered have been divided into four groups, consis-




22   tent with the Region IX policy in effect for many




23   years:  unaffiliated private citizens, representatives




24   of public agencies; representatives of special interest




25   groups and associations, and representatives of

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    business, commercial or industrial firms.  We will




    rotate among the four groups , hearing comments from




    one person in each group -- And I might add that we




    are going to adjust that slightly because there is an




    overwhelming majority in one of those groups, and we




    will try and adjust that -- comments from persons in




    each group, starting with those who registered earliest




 8             I would also like to add that, in keeping




    with the desire to generate the greatest amount of




10   information during the course of the hearing, anyone




11   who would like to submit a question that they would




12   like asked of another witness can do so by writing




13   that question down and submitting it to Lorraine or




14   Joanne in the back of the room, and we will try and




15   ask those questions to the extent possible to avoid




16   redundancy and other time factors during the course  of




17   the hearing so that we can get as much into the forum




18   as is possible.




19             Now, with that, I would like to make  a  few




20   other announcements.




21             Copies of the statement that I have delivered




22   are available now  in the back of the room for anyone




23   who would like a copy of that.




24             We would  like for  each person  who  does  speak




25   to give  their name  and to identify  themselves with  an

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    affiliated organization if they are representing that




    organization before each statement.




              And because we have over 40 people to make




    statements, we ask each of you to limit your comments,




    your prepared comments, to approximately five to seven




    minutes, with a dialogue for a few additional moments.




    That will get us through this meeting sometime before




 8   the dinner hour if we are able to stick to that




    schedule.




10             The entire statement of anyone who has




11   prepared statements will be included in the record.




12   We do have a Court Reporter taking a verbatim transcrip




13   and we will then supplement it with prepared remarks.




14   So copies should be made available to the Court




15   Reporter to assist us in that effort.




15             The record following the hearing will be




17   open for 15 days.  Following that, we hope to be close




18   to publication of proposed rules, and then we will




19   commence the formal rule making process at that time.




20             We will take a break approximately at noon,




21   resuming at 1:30 and going to completion, so that




22   everybody has an opportunity to provide their comments.




23             We do have two elected  officials who have




24   registered to testify.  I believe the pronunciation




25   is Palmtag, Charles Palmtag, a Councilman from

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Watsonville, California, and Don Saltarelli from




Tustin, California.  If they would both come to the




podium.  Or, I think it would be easier for one.




Charles, if you would come first, and then Don.




          MR. CHARLES PALMTAG:   My name is Charles




Palmtag.  I am a Watsonville City Council Member  and




Chairman of Watsonville's Washwater Study Board of




Control.




          Before we start any recommendations,  I  would




like to just give  a very brief background.




          The City of Watsonville discharges primary




treated sewage to  the ocean through a 39-inch  outfall




line.   We discharge our sewage into the ocean  through




a 39-inch outfall  extending approximately 4,000 feet




into Monterey Bay.  The City  is  currently studying




alternatives to meet the EPA  standards  for secondary




treatment.




          It has been the City's position for  years




that the EPA's level of treatment is not normally




necessary to protect the ocean waters.  The  City




supports the State of California criteria  for  ocean




dischargers.  The  City  has  never been  allowed  to  study




alternatives other than to  meet  the EPA standards for




secondary treatment.




          Pursuant to the  above, the  City  of Watsonvill
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has written to the Regional Water Quality Control




Board and to the EPA requesting a waiver of its require




ment for secondary treatment.  Therefore, the City is




very concerned about establishing logical guidelines




for the eight criteria being considered at today's




hearing, and we offer the following comments.




          One.  The September 24th, '78, deadline, we




feel, for submitting data to support a waiver applica-




tion is unrealistic.  To date, most cities have not




been allowed to study alternatives other than those




that would meet EPA's definition of secondary treatment




The kind of ocean work necessary to document informa-




tion to support a waiver would take in excess of  12




months' time.




          Two.  It  is the City's position that there




need not be a substitute effluent standard for a  given




pollutant.  The recent work  in California in the  State'




revised Ocean Plan  documents  the fact  that BOD limita-




tion is not an  important criterion.  We  feel that




other  important parameters,  such as turbidity, toxicity




and  so  forth, should be  examined.




          Three.  The criteria stating "protection  and




propagation of  indigenous population"  should not  be




interpreted to  be a specific criteria.   In our opinion,




no  specific  level should be  established  for  species

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 1   diversity index,  or a minimum density required for




 2   any specific species.  Data collected for our area of




 3   Monterey Bay by several marine laboratories indicates




 4   that it would not be possible to establish specific




 5   limitations on a uniform basis.  The indigenous popu-




 6   lation in areas of the ocean is constantly changing.




 7   A period of five years may see major changes in the




 8   indigenous population in a given area.  We feel that




 9   ongoing monitoring studies should be used to document




10   the water quality maintenance.




11             Four.  It is the City's position that a




12   monitoring system and/or a source control program




13   need not be implemented within the 270-day time limita-




14   tion for a waiver application.  The City's monitoring




15   program is a part of its NPDES discharge permit and




16   should be done on a case-by-case basis.  The require-




17   ment that this be accomplished within a 270-day time




18   limitation does not seem to make sense to us.




19             Five.  The City is adamant  in stating that




20   the criteria regarding no new or substantially increase




21   discharges should not prohibit reasonable growth within




22   the community.  It is our position that a reasonable




23   population growth should be defined in terms of per




24   cent per year over the 20-year planning period.  In




25   Watsonville, even a two to three per  cent growth factor

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                                                       20





 1   per year will result in a fifty per cent flow increase




 2   over the twent-year planning period.




 3             Six.  It is the City's position that the law




 4   not be interpreted to require that the concentration




 5   of toxic pollutants in the discharge granted a modifica




 6   tion be any greater than the concentration which would




 7   occur with secondary effluent.  The monitoring of




 8   toxic pollutants has always been the responsibility of




 9   the Regional Water Quality Control Board.  These




10   limits should be based on the California Ocean Plan,




11   which contains water quality standards, rather than




12   effluent standards.  A case-by-case decision should be




13   made on effluent levels.  The key to enforcement should




14   be the water quality in the outfall area.




15             Seven.  The City would like to make a




16   particular point about the term "industrial wastes."




17   Our City's total waste has domestic characteristics,




18   even though 50 per cent of the flow is called indus-




19   trial.  The City has 20 food processing industries




20   discharging to its plant, and few of these have  toxic




21   chemicals and heavy metals.  Food industries do  have




22   a high BOD; however, it is the one thing proven  in




23   California that is not a justifiable parameter to




24   regulate in terms of effluent quality.  We do not




25   believe that, because industry is present  in a city,

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                                                       21






 1   its discharge should be evaluated differently.  We




 2   believe that what must be protected is the water qual-




 3   ity, and each discharger must be regulated individually




 4   to accomplish this end.




 5             And, eight,  it is our belief that  the area




 6   of the outfall should  not necessarily be evaluated as




 7   a recreation area.  The areas of many outfall  lines




 8   could never be considered recreational, even without




 9   the outfall line being present.  For example,  the




10   Watsonville outfall is located in an area of high wave




11   and tidal action.  Swimming, boating or fishing would




12   be most difficult,  regardless of the water  quality




13   or presence of an outfall line.




14             In closing,  many of us have traveled to other




15   areas of the country and have seen what can  happen to




16   the water quality.  We don't want that to happen




17   around Watsonville.  But we also think there  is more




18   than one way to accomplish our mutual goals  of pro-




19   tecting the environment.  For this reason, we  ask you




20   to give serious consideration to these recommendations.




21             And, finally, we would offer to participate




22   on any advisory committee the EPA might establish to




23   further assist in the  development of regulations  for




24   the issuance of secondary treatment waivers.




25             Thank you.

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                                                        22





 1             CHAIRMAN JORLING:   Thank you very much.




 2             Other  members  of the panel may want to ask




 3   questions,  so  you  may  want to stay up at the podium




 4   for  a  moment,  if you would,  Councilman.




 5             I  do have one  question,  and that  is your




 6   reference  to the California  Plan.   Are you  referring




 7   there  to the '72 version of  the California  Plan or to




 8   the  Proposed '78 version?




 9             MR.  PALMTAG:   Okay.   In  order  to  avoid any




10   problems,  let  me call  on my  consultant,  Christine  Carr




11   from Montgomery  and Associates,  to answer some of




12   these  specific questions.




13             MS.  CHRISTINE  CARR:   Mr.  Jorling,  my name




14   is Christine Carr,  and I am  representing Montgomery




15   Engineers  from Walnut  Creek.




16             And  to answer  your  question,  the  reference




17   in Mr. Palmtag's address was  made  for the proposed '78




18   Ocean  Plan  as  revised.




19             CHAIRMAN JORLING:   Thank you.




20             MS.  FRIEDMAN:   I have  one.




21             CHAIRMAN JORLING:   Lisa?




22             MS.  FRIEDMAN:   I believe you mentioned a




23   study  which  was  being  performed  which addressed the




24   question of  establishing uniform criteria for balanced




25   indigenous population.

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                                                        23






 1             MS.  CARR:   I  think what Mr.  Palmtag was




 2   referring  to  was  a  number of studies that are being




 3   done  in  the Monterey  Bay  specifically,  some information




 4   that  was received by  the  city the other day from the




 5   Marine Laboratory at  Moss Landing,  and  they have been




 6   studying a number of  populations  on the floor of the




 7   ocean in the  vicinity of  the Watsonville outfall and




 8   have  determined that  it's very  difficult to determine




 9   exactly what  an indigenous  population  is in that area.




10             MS.  FRIEDMAN:   Could  you  submit whatever




11   written studies they  have prepared  for  the record?




12             MS.  CARR:   We would be  pleased to submit any




13   written copies that are available.   However,  a lot of




14   this  is ongoing work, and the final data is not yet




15   available.




16             MR.  PALMTAG:  One other comment that they




17   made  on that  is that  they had run studies in  other




18   areas that were not in  the  area of  an  outfall line,




19   and in a couple of  -- Well,  I guess several areas,




20   they  found that,  in these ongoing studies that were




21    taking place  every  five years,  that the indigenous




22   population of  these areas,  which  are in no way related




23    to the outfall lines, are changing  to  the point where




24    they  are radically  different over that  period.




25              MR.  De  FALCO:   Councilman, could you tell me

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                                                        24





     what is,  in general,  the depth of the water in the area




     of the outfall and the area of the bay that you dis-




     charge into?




               MS.  CARR:   The existing outfall -- And a




     modification of that  outfall is proposed, but the




     existing  outfall discharges at the 40-foot depth




     contour approximately off the mouth of the Pajaro River




 8             MR.  De FALCO:   What is the depth of the bay




     in that general area, or the proposed area that you




10   are going to --




11             MS.  CARR:   Well,  the outfall, as I mentioned,




12   it's approximately 4,000 feet long and discharges at




13   the 40-foot depth contour.   Now, an extension of that




14   outfall is proposed  to approximately the 80-foot depth




15   contour.




16             MR.  De FALCO:   Thank you.




17             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank you very much.




18             MR.  PALMTAG:  Thank you.




19             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  The next official is Don




20   Saltarelli, representing the Orange County Sanitation




21   District.




22             MR.  DONALD  J.  SALTARELLI:   Good morning.   My




23   name is Don Saltarelli.   I  am a locally elected




24   official  in Orange County,  and I am serving as the




25   Joint  Chairman of the County Sanitation Districts of

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                                                        25
 1   Orange  County,  California.




 2             We  appreciate that your agency is seeking




 3   public  comment  relative to  the promulgation of EPA




 4   regulations  to  implement the 1977 amendments to the




 5   Federal  Water Pollution Control Act and, specifically,




 6   the  modification  of  secondary treatment for municipal




 7   deep-ocean discharges.




 8             We  have all  been  concerned for many years




 9   that  a blanket  secondary treatment requirement for all




10   municipalities, regardless  of receiving waters, is not




11   only  wasteful of  public funds and limited energy




12   resources  but,  in some  cases, creates  additional




13   environmental problems.




14             Our agency discharges its treated wastes




15   five  miles at sea at a  depth of approximately 195 feet




16   through  a  6,000-foot long diffuser.  Our current flow




17   averages 180  mgd.  We  are presently committed to the




18   construction  of 125 mgd of  secondary treatment facili-




19   ties.  When completed,  our  combined flow will meet the




20   adopted  California Ocean Plan requirements.




21             If  we are required to go to  full  secondary




22   treatment, another $50  million  in  capital  construction




23  will  be  required,  plus  the  attendant annual  operating




24  and maintenance costs which  will  be  borne.by the local




25  taxpayer without  any measurable improvement  to the

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                                                        26






 1   environment.




 2             In  June  of  last  year,  the California State




 3   Water  Resources  Control  Board estimated that  capital




 4   costs  to  construct marine  waste  disposal treatment




 5   systems  in California to meet their Ocean Plan would




 6   be  $454  million  and would  increase to $899 million




     under  the  Federal  BOD requirement  for major California




 8   municipal  discharges.  While  this  information has been




     documented in the  1977 Senate and  House hearings, I




10   believe  it is important  that  this  be considered in the




     development of EPA regs  concerning the waiver provision




12   of  the secondary treatment  requirement.




13            We  support  the approach  taken by the




14   California State Water Resources Control Board since




15   its  adopted Ocean  Plan emphasizes  controlling those




lg   waste  constituents --  toxics  --  which almost  always




17   result in adverse  impacts  on  the aquatic environment.




     We  recommend  that  EPA's  regulations concerning require-




19   ments  for a waiver of  secondary  treatment would




20   encompass many of  the  provisions of the California




2i    Plan.




22            With regard  to the  eight statutory  criteria




23    and  the  accompanying  questions outlined in EPA's  public




24   meeting notice,  our agency  would have the following




25    comments.

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                                                        27






 1             Criteria  1.  There  is  an  applicable  water




 2   quality standard specific to  the  pollutant  for which




 3   the modification is  requested, which  has  been  identifie




 4   under Section 304(a)(6) of this  Act.




 5             Since substantial quantities  of BOD  have




 6   been discharged through deep-water  outfalls  for many




 7   years without measurable effects  on the dissolved




 8   oxygen content of the coastal waters,  it  appears




 9   logical that EPA regulations  should be  written to




10   accept state water  quality standards  which  regulate




11   related parameters  such as dissolved  oxygen  and




12   turbidity with regard to BOD  and  suspended  solids.




13             Requirement 2.




14             To save time, I will not  read what the




15   requirements are.   I assume everyone  has  them  in front




16   of them.




17             We believe the evaluation of  water quality




18   for this criteria should compare  the  impact  of the




19   discharge, if a modification  is  approved, to the




20   impact which would  have resulted  from secondary treat-




21   ment.




22             For example, our agency has committed to  the




23   construction of secondary treatment for 60  per cent of




24   our discharge.  We  would expect  that  the  evaluation




25   concerning our request for waiver would address the

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                                                        28





 1   impact  of  the  60  per  cent  secondary treatment versus




 2   100  per cent.




 3             With  regard to how  should a balanced




 4   indigenous population be defined,  we support  the method




 5   used by the Southern  California  Coastal  Water Research




 6   Project which  developed what  they  call  a faunal  index




 7   based on numerous  criteria.




 8             Criteria  3.  Particularly here in  California,




 9   the major  agencies  have established considerable




10   background over the years  for determining representative




11   aquatic biota  existing in  the adjacent marine waters.




12   Current  NPDES  permits  issued  in  California require




13   extensive marine monitoring systems.   We have those.




14            Criteria  4.  Such modified requirements will




15   not result in  any  additional  requirement on  any  other




16   point or nonpoint  source.




17            This requirement will  not affect dischargers




18   in California, assuming compliance  with  the  California




19   adopted State Ocean Plan.




20            Criteria  5.  All  applicable pretreatment




21   requirements for sources introducing waste into  such




22   treatment works will  be enforced.




23            We suggest  that  EPA's  regulations  provide




24   that a  publicly owned  treatment  works  should  have an




25   enforceable pretreatment program at the  time  the waiver

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                                                        29






 1   application  is  approved rather than an enforceable




 2   pretreatment  program at the time  of the application.




 3   We  believe this  is  consistent  with  the fact  that many




 4   agencies  throughout  the United States  are still develop




 5   ing their pretreatment  programs.




 6            Criteria  6.   This provision  will require




 7   the development  of  a public education  program to




 8   eliminate domestic  discharge of certain pollutants.




 9   We  believe that  EPA  regulations should interpret this




10   criteria  to mean that  the  applicant will have adopted




11   at  the  time the  waiver  is  granted,  a schedule of




12   activities designed  to  eliminate  the entrance of toxic




13   pollutants from  non-industrial sources into  such




14   treatment works.




15            Criteria  7.   Since the  provision for modifica




16   tion of secondary treatment requires review  each five




17   years,  we assume that  the  modification is part of the




18   NPDES permit  which  does enumerate the  allowable flow.




19            For instance,  our agency's average daily flow




20   is  approximately 180 mgd,  while our NPDES permit




21   authorizes a  flow of 227.   Therefore,  during the




22   current five-year permit period,  there will  be no




23   new or  substantially increased discharges unless we




24   exceed  the NPDES permit allowable of 227 mgd.




25            We  request that  the  EPA's regulations

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                                                        30
 1   concerning Statutory  Criteria  7  be  consistent  with




 2   the NPDES permit  conditions.




 3             Eight.  We  look upon this  criteria to  mean




 4   utilizing grant funds  for water  reclamation, water




 5   reuse and conservation projects.




 6             The question has been  raised  should  the  law




 7   be interpreted to require that the  concentration of




 8   toxic pollutants  -- heavy metals, chlorinated  hydro-




 9   carbons, etc. --  in the  discharge be  no greater  than




10   the concentration that would occur  in secondary  treat-




11   ment.   It would appear to make more  sense  that EPA




12   interpret the concentration of toxic  pollutants  as




13   contained in the  restrictive California Ocean  Plan.




14   We believe this position would be defensible by  the




15   Environmental Protection Agency  and  well accepted  by




16   conservation groups.




17             Another question.  Should  the law be inter-




18   preted  to require publicly owned treatment  works which




19   treat only domestic wastes to  be evaluated  differently




20   than publicly owned treatment  works  that treat large




21   amounts of industrial  wastes?



22             If it is EPA's intention  to reduce the




23   amount  of red tape in  reporting  and  monitoring require-




24   ments for publicly owned treatment  works treating




25   domestic wastes only,  our agency would  support that

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                                                        31
 1  position.




 2             In  conclusion,  we  recognize  that  EPA's




 3  regulations must  be  restrictive  since  this  provision




 4  was  adopted by  the Congress  on  the  basis  that  marine




 5  dischargers should be  permitted  waivers of  secondary




 6  treatment  requirements where conditions are such  that




 7  reasonable limits can  be  set to  provide for treatment




 8  which  is something less than secondary  treatment  and




 9  still  protect the marine  environment.   We understand




10  that the waiver provision is not  a  blanket  authority




11  covering all  marine  discharges.   However, we must




12  insist  that the regulations  be  promulgated  to  permit




13  responsible agencies to present  their  cases for waivers




14  without punitive  administrative  red tape.




15             It  seems to  me  that the procedures establishe




16  for  the 401 process, the  NPDES  permit,  could be an




17  administrative  process to be used for  the application




18  and  granting  of the  waivers.  We  can tie  the waiver




19  into the NPDES  permit.




20             A final personal comment.  The  waiver process




21  is also a  political  and an economic issue.   Congress




22  has  told us so.   Taxpayers of our nation  and in the




23  State  of California, and  in  Orange  County,  California,




24  are  on  the verge  of  a  revolt.   And  I believe that it




25  is imperative that the available  resources  for

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                                                       32




 1   controlling environmental pollution be allocated where




 2   the need is the greatest.  It would be foolish for us




 3   to be required, or for any other agency to be required,




 4   to spend money on the magnitude of $25 to $50 million




 5   or a hundred million dollars where there can be no




 6   measurable increase in the results.




 7             I would be happy to answer any questions




 8   that I can.




 9             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank you, Don.  I have




10   one question.




11             Your reference to the permit provision for




12   a flow of 227 million gallons per day, is that based




13   on in-place design capacity?




14             MR. SALTARELLI:  Yes.




15             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Any others?




15             MR. De FALCO:  Yes.




17             You mentioned  the present monitoring program.




18   Could you give us some idea of what your present




19   monitoring program is costing?




20             MR. SALTARELLI:  At our agency, it's about




21   two hundred fifty-three  hundred thousand dollars a




22   year, but it's a joint project with some other agency,




23   and I think the cost is  over a million dollars a




24   year or somewhere in that neighborhood, is  it?  A




25   quarter of a million dollars a year.

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22




23




24




25
                                                    33





          MR. DUBOIS:  Following  up  on  that  point,  I




believe you said, sir, that you would favor  using  the




NPDES monitoring requirements  as  the requirements  that




apply for the waiver.  Are you monitoring  the biota in




the in-place water quality under  your NPDES  permit,




or are you only monitoring the effluent quality?




          MR. SALTARELLI:  We  are monitoring it under




the permit; very definitely under the permit.




          One of the things that  concerns  me is can




and will the state get together with the EPA in regard




to any problem regarding definition of BOD,  or can  that




be something that's worked out.   I hate to see hundreds




of millions, of billions of dollars spent  on the




difference of the word "or" or "of" or something of




that nature in these regulations.  And, believe me,




that's the way some of these things can be written.




We are concerned about that.




          CHAIRMAN JORLING:  The existing outfall,  does




it meet the '72 California Ocean Plan, or would it




meet,  if the answer to that is no, the  '77 or '78




proposed California Plan?




          MR.  SALTARELLI:  It will meet the  '78.




          CHAIRMAN JORLING:  It will meet the '78 but




not the '72.  Would it have met?




          MR.  SALTARELLI:  Correct.

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                                                        34







 1             CHAIRMAN  JORLING:   I  guess  that  completes it.




 2  Thank  you  very  much.




 3             What  I  am going  to  do is  to read the  next




 4  block  of witnesses  so  we can  get  a  little  bit  of  an




 5  idea of the planning of this  activity and  others  can




 6  know when  they  are  going to appear.   And  I will read




 7  them in sort  of groups of  six or  seven.




 8             The next  witness will be  Dennis  Hardy,




 9  representing  the  Alaska District  of  the Corps  of




10  Engineers  as  a  public  agency, followed by  Richard King




11  from the City of  San Diego Water  Utilities Department;




12  Larry  Walker, representing the  California  State Water




13  Resources  Control Board, who  will be  followed  by  Ken




14  Kamlet, representing the National Wildlife Federation;




15  then James Perry  from  the  Watsonville Food Processors,




16  representing  the  business  and commercial  interests;




17  and John Spencer, representing  the  Washington  State




18  Department of Ecology.




19             And that  takes us through  the first  eight,




20  and then I will go  to  the  next  block  following  that.a




21             So  if Dennis would  come forward.




22             MR. DENNIS HARDY:   My name  is Dennis  Hardy.




23  I'm an engineer representing  the  Alaska District, Corps




24  of Engineers, and the  Alaskan Air Command,  US  Air Force




25  as their design agent.  Both  agencies are  located in

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                                                        35







 1   Anchorage, Alaska.




 2             The passage of the Federal Water Quality




 3   Act of 1965 and the resulting  formulation of  new




 4   Alaska state water quality standards dictated a need




 5   for more efficient waste treatment  facilities through-




 6   out Alaska.  The President, by Executive Order 11288




 7   directed the federal sector to assume  a  leading role




 8   in the nationwide effort to achieve pollution control.




 9             In response, the Alaskan  Air Command




10   initiated and funded a program for  research  and




11   development of aerated lagoons through the Arctic




12   Health research center, US Public Health Service  and




13   the Alaska District Corps of Engineers.  These efforts




14   succeeded in advancing cold climate aerated  lagoon




15   technology to a state of the art.




16             There are now 12 full-scale  aerated lagoons




17   serving Air Force installations  throughout Alaska,




18   with capacities varying from 7,000  gallons per day  to




19   one million gallons per day.   All of these lagoons




20   were designed and constructed  in strict  conformance




21   with waste treatment requirements of that period.




22             Subsequent to enactment of the Federal  Water




23   Pollution Control Act amendments of 1972, secondary




24   treatment has been redefined numerous  times  by EPA,




25   resulting in more stringent treatment  requirements.

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                                                       36





 1             Again in response, the Air Force has funded




 2   additional research and development concerned with




 3   upgrading facilities which are not in compliance with




 4   the recent legislation.  Construction is presently




 5   underway to upgrade the one mgd Eilson Air Force Base




 6   lagoon near Fairbanks, Alaska.  This facility alone




 7   treats approximately two-thirds of the wastes treated




 8   by Air Force lagoons in Alaska.




 9             The record shows that the Air Force has taken




10   every effort to comply with the letter and intent of




11   the 1 aw .




12             The Clean Water Act of 1977, which  includes




13   a modification of secondary treatment requirements for




14   publicly owned facilities, including federal  facilities




15   discharging into marine waters, provides a mechanism




16   whereby the regulatory agencies may apply reason and




17   logic to the otherwise inflexible discharge limitations.




18             Of particular interest is the aerated  lagoon




19   at Shemya Air Force Base.  Shemya is an Alaskan  Air




20   Command base located at the tip of the Aleutian  Island




21   chain.  The island is  relatively small, measuring about




22   one and a half miles wide and three and a half miles




23   long.  The Bering Sea  borders on the north and the




24   Pacific Ocean on the south.  As an indication of its




25   remoteness, Shemya is  located 1100 miles south of the

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                                                    37





mainland of Russian and 2,000 miles west of  the mainlan
of Alaska.
          The aerated lagoon at Shemya treats  about  a




quarter of a million gallons a day of domestic waste.




The lagoon discharges to the ocean through a submerged
out fall .
          A recent study prepared by the Alaska
District, a copy of which I would like to submit  for




the record, shows that even though the effluent BOD,.
                                                   »3



is only 18 milligrams/liter, well under the 30 milli-




grams/liter requirement, it does not meet the 85  per




cent removal criteria because of its dilute nature.




The efficiency of the lagoon has been adversely




affected by the fact that about a quarter of the  waste




flow is infiltration/inflow.  Elimination of the  infil-




tration/inflow is not economically feasible.




          The cost of upgrading the lagoon to also




effect 85 per cent BOD_ removal is high, at least
                      D



relatively high to us, over one million dollars,  or




about $90,000 for each additional pound per day of




BOD,, removal.  The benefit is neglibible.  There  is
   o



no use of the marine waters for water supply, recreatio




or shellfish.




          In addition, the strong ocean currents  in




the vicinity of the outfall preclude violation of water

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                                                        38
quality standards.  Thus,  it would  not  be  in  the  best




interest of the government  or  the taxpayer to upgrade




the lagoon.  The  facility  has  been  granted a  disinfec-




tion waiver by EPA and the  State of Alaska based  on




this same premise.




          The Alaskan Air  Command,  through the Alaska




District, has requested a  waiver of the secondary




treatment requirement for  Shemya.   Under this waiver,




the lagoon would  continue  to discharge  effluent of a




quality which is  extremely  close to EPA's  definition




of secondary treatment.




          The Air Force and Alaska  District look




forward to working closely  with EPA and the State of




Alaska in providing the Administrator with the infor-




mation required to satisfy  him that the eight condition




specified in the  law can be met at  Shemya.




          If there are any  questions, I would be  glad




to answer them.




          CHAIRMAN JORLING:  One of the things that




we are going to have to continually remind ourselves




during the course of the hearing is that the  purpose




of this hearing is to assist us in  developing the




regulations, and  those regulations will then  be the




framework in which individual  case-by-case decisions




will be made.   And it's at  that time when  the particula

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                                                        39





 1   case will be discussed  and  considered  on  its  own  merits




 2             There is one  issue here  that  you  raise  which




 3   is going to require our interpretation.   You  have




 4   suggested that federal  facilities  are,  for  purposes  of




 5   this provision, publicly owned treatment  systems.   As




 6   a matter of law, I don't think the  agency has  made  that




 7   determination.  I would invite the  state  representative




 8   especially that are going to be appearing to  give us




 9   their views on that issue.




10             For instance, federal facilities  such as




11   those you have been describing do  not  qualify  for




12   assistance under Title  II of the Water  Pollution  Con-




13   trol Act. And there is  some question as to  whether  we




14   should use that measure, namely, eligibility  as an




15   applicant under Title II for grant  assistance  as  the




16   determination of a publicly owned  facility  for purposes




17   of 301(h).




18             So any of the witnesses  that  would  like to




19   speak to that issue, we are inviting specific  comments




20   on it.




21             Obviously, you have stated that you, in your




22   view, believe that federal  facilities  should  be




23   considered as publicly  owned treatment  works  for  this




24   provision but, as a matter  of law,  we  haven't  made




25   that determination yet.

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                                                        40






 1             MR. HARDY:   I  would  like  to  respond to that.




 2             The Office  of  the  Chief of Engineers in




 3   Washington, D.  C.,  has  indicated  that  federal facilitie




 4   have traditionally  been  required  to meet  the  same




 5   effluent  limitations  as  a  publicly  owned  facility;  in




 6   essence,  have been  defined as  a publicly  owned facility




 7   in a compliance since.   Therefore,  we  feel  that  we




 8   should also be  given  the same  consideration for  grants




 9   of waivers.




10             CHAIRMAN  JORLING:  Has  the Chief  done  that




11   in some kind of a memorandum and, if so,  would you




12   supply that to  us?




13             MR. HARDY:   I  just received  this  information




14   on the plane, and it  was from  a phone  call.   A memoran-




15   dum of the phone call  can  be made available.




16             CHAIRMAN  JORLING:  Well,  I'm not  so much




17   interested in a memorandum of  the phone call;  but if




18   either the Counsel's  office  or the  Chief  have issued




19   their formal view of  this  matter, it would  be helpful




20   to have it for  the  record.




21             MR. DUBOIS:   Mr. Hardy, have you  checked




22   with the  Alaska Department of  Environmental Conserva-




23   tion to see whether such a waiver could be  consistent




24   with state law?




25             MR. HARDY:   Yes, we  have.  And  they have  no

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                                                       41





 1   strong feelings against it.




 2             MR. DUBOIS:  If there has not been a written




 3   determination made,  this was an oral discussion kind




 4   of thing?




 5             MR. HARDY:  Yes, oral.




 6             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank you, Dennis.




 7             The next witness is Richard King  from the




 8   City of San Diego Water Utilities Department.




 9             MR. RICHARD W. KING:  Thank you,  Mr. Jorling,




10   members of the committee.




11             My name is Dick King, the Director of the




12   Water Utilities Department for the City of  San Diego.




13   We appreciate the opportunity to make this  input  into




14   your session and thank you for this opportunity to do




15   so.



15             Our prepared comments take about  30 minutes;




17   so, in the interest  of your time frame, why, we will




18   excerpt them and try to hold to your five-minute




19   requirement.




20             Just briefly as an overview, the  City of




21   San Diego is a metropolitan sewerage system comprising




22   some 16 communities.  We serve a population of about




23   a million and a quarter people in the surrounding area,




24   and on an emergency  basis, we also serve  the City of




25   Tijuana, Mexico, as  well.

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                                                       42





 1             We have a primary treatment facility, a basic




 2   facility, that is sized for a normal capacity of 240




 3   million gallons a day, and the present sedimentation




 4   capacity is 120.




 5             Our sludge that is digested, it's mixed with




 6   sand and seaweed from our beach-cleaning operation and




 7   brought back into the soil as a soil amendment for the




 8   golf courses and public parks and private lots.




 9             And our monitoring program has been in




10   existence for 17 years, including a year prior to the




11   time that the outfall was installed.  So our outfall




12   is out in the ocean about two and a half miles at 220




13   feet deep, and it's been well researched and examined




14   since that time.




15             As an overview to my comments, I would like




16   to read into the record that direction in our presenta-




17   tion taken from Mayor Wilson's testimony, Mayor of the




18   City of San Diego, on June 22nd to Senator Muskie,




19   as well as we have gone through a Congressional Record




20   that's relevant to this matter and excerpted direction




21   also from the Congressman and we have attempted, using




22   those parameters, to be the framework and the guidance




23   for our comments on how this law, this complex subject




24   could be administered.




25             And we stress very strongly that San Diego's

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                                                        43





 1   interest  is  not  in  building  a  secondary  treatment




 2   needlessly.   We  are presently  on  a  committed course




 3   to  spend  $427 million  for  secondary  treatment facilitie




 4   We  feel that  we  are down in  the  area where  water supply




 5   is  critical.  We  are at the  end  of  the  line.   We are




 6   anxious for  a total resource recovery,  recycle and




 7   reclamation.




 8            We  agree  with Senator  Muskie  and  the




 9   Congressional Record of the  15th.




10            "The conference  agreement  emphasizes the




11         need to use alternative  technologies  instead of




12         conventional  secondary treatment  plants and




13         encourages  the development  of  new  and innovative




14         systems . "




15            And the concept  here of taking these systems




16   and to recycle and  reclaim simply to use the nutrients




17   in  the wastewater is the course  that San Diego was on.




18   We  have experimented with  reverse osmosis.   We have




19   had a  facility now  for seven years.   We  have a grant




20   application  of almost  a year ago  for the use of




21   hyacinths in  wastewater recovery, the research of




22   which  was done by NASA.  And we  submit  that this is




23   the type  of  thing that San Diego  would  like to move to




24   in  the future.




25            Moving  along now to  the exact  criteria,  on

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                                                   44






Specification No. 1 about the definition of a water




quality standard, we would argue for the State of




California's Ocean Plan.  We would submit respectfully




that the absence of a state not having the BOD is not




an oversight.  We submit that it's a correct standard




by not needlessly regulating something that has no




meaning.  In other words, not stipulating BOD as a




standard, and we would stipulate that this is adequate.




          Beyond that,  we would support your comments




that were attached to your invitation to come here




today that surrogate parameters, such as dissolved




oxygen or turbidity or along those lines, could be




used, and then we would think, too, that there isn't




a — We would have scientific judgment and opinion




available which could not only respond to the definitio




of water quality but could answer Condition No. 2, also




which relates to the indigenous population, the pro-




tection of shellfish, fish and so on.




          We have observed that in our case, San Diego




does have a wealth of sea life activity going on right




out over the outfall.  Seals and whales are in migratio




There is kelp harvesting right out over the outfall,




fishing, surfing and this type of thing.




          So we would argue our position here on No. 2




would be the scientific opinion that suggested in the

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                                                   45
first place to Congress that waivers could be given,




would be data that would be -- that's already in




existence and abundant, and we would submit that such




opinion as that would be adequate.




          On Condition 3 on monitoring, we follow the




State Plan.  It's been in existence for 17 years, and




we follow that program of monitoring.  And scientists




who have used it apparently feel that it's adequate.




          The effect on others, on Item 4, we do not




believe it would impact others if San Diego were given




a waiver.




          I might mention the City of Tijuana.  They




discharge about 25 million gallons a day.  It's raw




sewage.  It goes right into the ocean.  There is no




outfall or anything else.  And the current at the ocean




at that point is north, so we get it all.  And if we




had a waiver from secondary treatment, I don't believe




we would be adversely impacting other dischargers.




          On Item 5, the source control program, San




Diego has an ordinance in force under the permit.  We




feel we comply with that.




          And Item 6, we would prepare such a schedule




to eliminate the toxic pollutants.




          On 7 relative to the flow, we are concerned




and going to recycle, reclamation and reuse.  To do

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                                                   46






that, we think it would take about ten years.  Obvi-




ously, we are running into a practical matter here,




the present capacity of the plant being exceeded in




that period of time.




          We find ourselves comfortable with the




language that would consider flow to be considered as




another item of the NPDES requirement and treated




similar to that.   And I would observe that the flows




are to be used for anticipated -- anticipated capacity.




          Finally, on Criteria 8 with respect to




reclamation and reuse, as we have said, it's San Diego'




position to move in this direction.  We think it is




environmentally sound.  We think it is cost effective




in all the studies that we have done.  We think it's




superior to all other forms of technology, particularly




that which involves aqua culture.




          And so this is pretty much our position at




this point in time, and I believe I am in a position




to answer any questions that any of you might have.




          CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Could you elaborate




somewhat on the evolution of your 17 years of monitor-




ing?  The concern is, or the specific reference is for




the 17-year period.  Have you had the full range of




monitoring of pollutants, or did it begin with the




concern with the conventional pollutants and has

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                                                       47






 1   broadened over time to  include monitoring  for toxic




 2   pollutants and whether  or not the City of  San Diego




 3   has  included within its management an identification




 4   of the origin of toxic  pollutants which are entering




 5   the  system?




 6             MR. KING:  I'm not sure I'm all  that  familiar




 7   on that point.  And I certainly will reply to you when




 8   I get a chance to check it out.




 9             But just for  the moment, I'm quite satisfied




10   that the monitoring program has gone through a  stage




11   of evolution, and it's  been refined and improved as




12   time has gone on, not only for the toxic pollutants,




13   but  all forms of animal life that's in the -- in




14   existence.




15             As far as our sources, where the toxics come




16   from, the City of San Diego is pretty much a bedroom




17   community.  We have virtually no industry.  Our




18   industrial load is, by  definition, seven per cent.  And




19   the  industry that we have is largely fish  and food




20   processing.  We virtually have no toxic problem in the




21   City of San Diego's effluent.




22             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Now, the second point is




23   with respect to Paragraph (7), (h)(7), the condition




24   on the no or new substantial increased discharges.




25   You  are basically urging that that provision be

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                                                        48





 1   interpreted to provide  for  at  least  ten  years  of




 2   growth in your community?




 3             MR. KING:  Yes, sir.




 4             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  How would you  specifically




 5   propose that a regulation be written  in  the  face  of




 6   that language that would provide such anticipated




 7   growth?




 8             MR. KING:  I  would use, under  the  NPDES




 9   permit provision, considering  that the flow, like any




10   other parameter, would  be evaluated  and  considered at




11   that time.




12             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  At which time?




13             MR. KING:  At the time that you would -- the




14   permit would be up for  review.




15             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  In the  period  of  your




16   anticipated growth, you are suggesting back  on earlier




17   pages, Page 2 of your testimony, that San Diego is




18   moving towards a recycling  system, but the  value  for




19   a modification is to permit you to devote your resource




20   to that.  Does that mean that  you expect to  go through




21   the general grant process through the State  of




22   California priority scheme  to  get Step 1 funding  to




23   achieve recycling within that  10-year period?




24             MR. KING:  Yes, sir.  And  we have  our grant




25   in there at the present time to do just  that.

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                                                        49






 1             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Anyone  else?   Paul?




 2             MR. De FALCO:  Yes.




 3             Mr. King, I  find  it  difficult  to  believe  --




 4   And maybe I misunderstood -- that with a city  of  over




 5   a million, there are no toxic  materials  at  all  being




 6   discharged to the city system.




 7             MR. KING:  I didn't  mean to say there are




 8   no toxics.  I mean the pilot,  it's controlled,  and




 9   that the  level of our  heavy metals that  are in  our




10   effluent  is well within the NPDES requirements.




11             MR. De FALCO:  But there are presently




12   control mechanisms --




13             MR. KING:  Yes, sir.




14             MR. De FALCO:  -- in the city.  I see.  Thank




15   you.




16             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank you.




17             MR. KING:  Thank  you,  sir.




18             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  The next witness  is  Larry




19   Walker from the State  of California  Water Resources




20   Control Board.




21             MR. LARRY F. WALKER:  Thank you,  Mr.  Jorling,




22   members of the panel.




23             My  name  is Larry  Walker, and  I am Executive




24   Director  with the  California State Water Resources




25   Control Board.

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                                                        50




               Our Board is supportive of Section 301(h) of




     the Clean Water Act,  and we agree with the intent of




     Congress  in passing this particular amendment.   But we




     just can't afford in  today's situation to spend hundred




     of  millions of  dollars,  and perhaps even billions of




     dollars,  to development  treatment systems that  do not




     achieve environmental  benefits.




 8             At  the  same  time,  we  agree with concerns




 9   expressed by  EPA  that  this  new  provision of  the Act




 10   must  be carefully  administered  to prevent substantial




 11   weakening of  the  entire  federal  water pollution control




 12   program.




 13             We  concur with EPA and with the Congressional




 14   language  that the  burden or  proof for waiver must be




 15   placed on  the applying discharger.




 16             We  also  believe that  the  final decision on




 17   the waivers,  at least  initially,  should  rest with the




 18   Administrator rather than with  the  Regional  Administra-




 19   tors or with  states which have  been  delegated the




20   permit program.




21             I think  we would  like  to  be  in a position to




22  make a recommendati'on to the  Regional  Administrator




23  and the Administrator, but we think  from the standpoint




24  of consistency that the  final determination  should be




25  made by the Administrator.

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                                                   51





          While I have stated that are supportive of




the new amendments, the eight conditions in the law




under which a waiver can be granted are somewhat




confusing and certainly subject to differing interpre-




tation.  And because of this, I think we are apprecia-




tive that EPA has held this particular hearing prior to




promulgating regulations.




          Moving to the conditions now, we would like




to state our interpretation of how each of these




conditions should be incorporated into the regulations.




          Regarding Condition No. 1, we think the




proper interpretation is that federally approved state




water quality standards must be in existence at the




time the waiver is granted and that those standards




must contain specific requirements related to the water




quality effects of the discharge, BOD and suspended




solids and acidic materials.  In other words, we are




saying that, from a practical standpoint, the water




quality standard should contain surrogate parameters




such as dissolved oxygen,  turbidity and light trans-




mittance as opposed to specific water quality parameter




related to BOD concentrations or suspended solids




concentration.




          As a point of information, California




currently has EPA-approved water quality standards for

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                                                   52






ocean dischargers and has recently adopted -- our Board




adopted at its January board meeting revisions to those




standards.  And those revisions, the revised California




Ocean Plan, is in the Regional EPA office for considera




tion at the present time.  The revised California




Ocean standards require a level of treatment midway




between primary treatment and secondary treatment in




terms of suspended solids removal ,  and they require




the control of toxic discharges to levels that the




literature conservatively states will not result in




long-term adverse impacts upon the marine biota.




          The second condition relating to the demon-




stration of the protection of indigenous populations




is a fairly complex condition and does not yield a




simple interpretation.  On the one hand, a demonstra-




tion of compliance with federally approved state water




quality standards should suffice since such standards




are designed to provide for the protection or to provid




the protection indicated in this particular condition.




          In the case of large ocean dischargers,




however, we favor a more restrictive approach which




requires the development of detailed information




regarding water quality and sediment quality and




extensive analysis of the marine biota in the vicinity




of the discharge and in the surrounding areas to

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                                                        53






 1    determine  the  actual  impact  of  the  discharge.




 2              So our position would be  that,  in  terms  of




 3    the smaller dischargers  -- And  this  might  vary  from




 4    location to location  --  that  demonstration of complianc




 5    with the federally  approved  water quality  standards




 6    should meet this condition.




 7              In the case of the  larger  dischargers,




 8    certainly  those such  as  the  major cities  in  this state,




 9    far more extensive  water quality information should




10    be developed through  monitoring programs.  We would




11    point out  that, in  some  cases,  the  historical impacts




12    that have  been identified through these monitoring




13    programs will  have  to be projected  to  determine  the




14    impacts that will result from compliance  with,  in  our




15    case, the  California  Ocean Plan.




15              For  example, compliance with the California




17    Ocean Plan will require  that  major  Southern  California




18    dischargers reduce  the amount of suspended solids




19    currently  discharged  in  half  and that  we  have simillar




20    reductions for some of the toxic materials.




21              I'd  like  to, in relation  to  this Condition




22    No. 2, refer to a couple of  the questions  contained




23    in your hearing notice.  The  first  of  these  questions




24    is, "Should the law be interpreted  to  require that the




25    concentration  of toxic pollutants in the  discharge

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 5




 6




 7




 8




 9




10



11




12




13




14




15




16




17




18




19




20




21




22




23




24




25
                                                    54





granted a modification be no  greater  than  the  concen-




tration which would occur with secondary treatment?"




          California does not favor such an  interpreta-




tion for a couple of reasons.




          First, we do not see the basis for such an




interpretation within the statute.  Rather,  the law




states that we should establish controls that  will




protect the water quality against --  for the beneficial




uses which have been established or to protect the




indigenous populations in existence.




          And the law, or other provisions of  the law,




provide for the establishment of toxic levels  that




will protect marine waters.




          This is included in the Section  303  water




quality standards, Section 307,  toxic and  pretreatment




standards,  and then the Section 403,  Ocean Discharge




Criteria.




          So we believe that, rather  than  using




secondary  treatment as the basis for  determining




necessary  toxic levels, we should look toward  those




toxic levels which the literature demonstrates are




necessary  to protect the marine biota.  In some cases,




it may be  more stringent than would be required by




secondary  treatment, or would be produced  by secondary




treatment.   In other cases,  it may be less.

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                                                        55






 1             And,  in addition,  we think that heavy




 2   reliance has to be placed on the EPA pretreatment




 3   standards and the ocean discharge criteria that will




 4   soon  be developed, again with the purpose of controllin




 5   toxics.




 6             The second question related to this condition




     was how a balanced indigenous population should be




 8   defined.   In this case,  we believe that Administrator




 9   Costle's decision on Seabrook nuclear station provides




 10   some  valuable guidance.   The language regarding




 11 I  indigenous  populations  in Condition 2 is identical to




 12   the language contained  in Section 316(a) of the Act




 13   relative to thermal  discharges.   And in making his




 14   decision on the  Seabrook Nuclear Station,  Mr. Costle




 15   dealt with  the  interpretation of this language, and




 15   his conclusions  there should provide a sound and




 17   consistent  approach  in  this  particular situation.




 13            The third  condition requires that the appli-




 19   cant  demonstrate  that he's established a system for




20   monitoring  the  impact of discharge upon a  representativi




21    sample  of the aquatic biota.   We think that this is a




22    very  important  item  and  that  the applicant  should  be




23    required  to  lay out  a monitoring program in the appli-




24    cation  that  would  get the information desired under




25    this particular condition and that collection of that

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                                                        56





 1    information  should  be  a  condition  of  the  permit.




 2              We  do  not  believe  --  Even though  in  Californi




 3    I  think  you  will  find  that  this  is probably  the  case,




 4    we do  not  believe that the  monitoring program  neces-




 5    sarily has to be  underway at  the time of  application.




 6    We think the  monitoring  program  has to be  identified




 7    and it has to be  agreeable  to EPA  and to  the state,




 8    but  it does  not  necessarily  have to be underway.




 9              I  think the  fourth  condition I'm  going  to




10    skip over  because it's not  quite so critical,  and that




11    will be  referred  to  in our  written statement.




12              The fifth  condition requires that  all




13    applicable pretreatment  standards  will be  enforced,




14    and the  interpretation of this  condition  is  made  some-




15    what difficult by the  absence of a codified  federal




16    pretreatment  standards program.  However,  any  applicant




17    should be  required  to  provide a  demonstration  that  they




18    have the legal and  technical  capacity to  conduct  a




19    pretreatment  program and that such a  program is




20    adaptable  to  the  requirements of Section  307 as




21    amended.




22              In  June of 1976,  the  California  Water




23    Resources  Control Board  adopted  guidelines  for




24    determining  the  effectiveness of local source  control




25    programs,  and we  suggest that such guidelines  would

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                                                        57






 1    represent  a  good  criteria  for  appraising compliance




 2    with  this  condition  for  modification,  and I  will  submit




 3    several .copies  of  these  guidelines  for your  use.




 4              Our recommendations  here  in  relation  to pre-




 5    treatment  standards  is that  the  applicant be required




 6    to submit  with  his application a description of the




 7    proposed program  he  intends  to use  to  provide effective




 8    source control  and to enforce  the applicable pretreat-




 9    ment  standards; and  then as  a  condition of the  permit,




10    the applicant should be  required to implement the




11    source control  program and enforce  the pretreatment




12    standards.




13              I  think  the sixth  condition  I will skip over,




14    too,  and that will be referred to in the written  state-




15    ment .




16              The seventh condition  requires the applicant




17    to demonstrate  that  there will be no new or  substan-




18    tially increased  discharges  from the point source of




19    the pollutant to  which the modification applies above




20    that  volume  of  discharge specified  in  the permit.




21    While this language  is not totally  clear,  we believe




22    the Senate and  House reports clarify that the intent




23    here  is to limit  the waiver  to that flow which  would




24    normally be  included in  the  permit.




25              We are  also aware  that EPA has at  times

-------
                                                        58




 1    interpreted  this  condition  to  mean  that  the  waiver




 2    should be  restricted  to  the  flow  existing  at  the  time




 3    the modification  is granted.   And philosophically,  here




 4    in California, we support EPA's approach in  making  a




 5    strict interpretation  in that  a strict interpretation




 6    would certainly provide  a great deal  of  encouragement




 7    to wastewater reclamation, which  we are  trying  to




 8    encourage  at the  present time.  However, from a prac-




 9    tical standpoint, this approach presents some problems




10    because, if we were to limit the  flow to that in




11    existence  at the  time  the permit  is granted  with  the




12    idea that  reclamation  would  have  to make up  for any




13    growth, there is  just  no way that practically we  could




14    implement  reclamation  projects immediately,  and so




15    there would, in effect,  have to be  a  building ban until




16    reclamation projects  could be  implemented.




17              So we have  a suggestion that alternatively




18    might meet the desires of EPA, and  certainly our




19    desires, too, in  concert with  the granting of a




20    modification to,  at the  same time,  encourage reclama-




21    tion, and  we would suggest that EPA include  as  a  permit




22    condition  where it appears that reclamation  projects




23    have some  potential:




24              One.  A requirement  that  a  detailed Step  1




25    facilities plan evaluating potential  reclamation

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                                                        59





 1   projects be implemented,  again as a condition of the




 2   permit.




 3             And,  further,  that reclamation projects that




 4   are  identified  as a part  of the facilities planning




 5   effort be implemented where they are found to be cost




 6   effective and where federal funds are available for



 7   such implementation.




 8             We  also think  it would be desirable for EPA




 9   to state in the permit its intent upon renewal of the




10   permit five years hence  to reduce the allowable flows




11   in the permit by the  amount of flows which can be




12   reclaimed.




13             I would note,  again, for the record that,




14   in California,  we already have Step 1 facilities




15   planning work underway specifically aimed at identi-




16   fying  cost-effective  reclamation projects in most of




17   our  major coastal communities.  I think Mr.  King indi-




18   cated  that  we have a  reclamation study underway in




19   the  San  Diego County  area.   We have a very large one




20   underway in the Los Angeles/Orange County area.   We




21    have a large  one underway in the San Francisco Bay




22    Area,  and we  also have one underway in the Monterey



23    area.




24              The eighth  condition states that the appli-




25    cant must demonstrate that any available funds under

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                                                        60






 1   Title  II will be  used  to  achieve  the  degree  of  effluent




 2   reduction  required by  Section  201(b)  and  (g)(2)(A)  or




 3   to  carry out the  requirements  of  Section  301(h).




 4              Our interpretation of this  language is  that




 5   future  federal  funds otherwise required for  full




 6   implementation  of the  secondary treatment  should  be




 7   used to construct reclamation  facilities  that are




 8   identified as cost effective.




 9              While this section is,  I  think,  one of  the




10   most difficult  ones to  interpret  for  us,  we  believe




11   that the interpretation that we have  suggested  is




12   logical and that  it would  result  in an expenditure




13   of  available grant funds  in a  manner  which would  best




14   serve the  public  interest.




15              I think one  of  the other  speakers  has  indi-




16   cated that  it's a far  better expenditure  of  public




17   funds to first  identify reclamation projects that are




18   feasible and then use  the  available public funds  to




19   provide the necessary  treatment and the transmission




20   facilities  to implement those  reclamation  projects




21   rather  than to  provide  an  unnecessary degree of  treat-




22   ment for an entire flow which  probably can't be  totally




23   reclaimed  within  the near  future.




24              At this point I  would like  to address  a




25   couple  of  other questions  that were contained in  the

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                                                        61







 1   public hearing notice.




 2             The first  regards whether  facilities  treating




 3   solely domestic waste should be  treated  differently




 4   than  facilities discharging combined domestic and




 5   industrial waste.  We don't feel that  the  differential




 6   should be made.   It's not really made  in the statute.




 7   Certainly the statute language points  out  that  it will




 8   be far more difficult for a municipality with a great




 9   deal  of industrial waste to comply with  the standards,




10   and we certainly  think that a municipality with a




11   degree of industrial waste will  have to  have an




12   extremely aggressive pretreatment control  program in




13   order to comply,  but they should not be  precluded from




14   attempting that.




15             Somewhat related to this,  the  legislation




16   cites certain factors related to outfall depth,  distanc




17   from  shore, tidal movements and  geologic features as




18   potential criteria for eligibility for modification of




19   the requirement for  secondary treatment.   It can be




20   argued that each  of  these factors may  represent a




21   single and necessary criteria.   However, in actuality,




22   each  of these variables are interdependent and  only on




23   the whole do they fairly represent the ability  of the




24   ocean to provide  sufficient elimination  of the  tradi-




25   tional pollutants.

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                                                       62
            We  are  hopeful  that  your regulations will

  not  include  rigid factors such as depth or distance

  from shores  criterion  of  eligibility.   We suggest that

  applicants should be  required  to submit detailed infor-

  mation  regarding  their discharge in terms of flow,

  pollutant  loading,  outfall consideration, current and

  tidal patterns  initial dilution capabilities,  and this

  information  would permit  an appraisal  of eligibility

  for  modification  of their requirements based on the

  probability  that  the  factors associated with the dis-

  charge  is  such  that secondary  treatment may not be

  necessary.
I
            In  other words, we are saying that we ought

  to ask  for a  great deal of information; that we ought

  to test  that  information  against the water quality

  standards  that  have been  developed, and we ought to

  further,  in  the case  of the larger discharger, look

  at the  detailed ocean  studies  that have been conducted

  to insure  ourselves that  the indigenous population

  will not be  harmed by  granting of a waiver.

            Our last comment does not relate to a

  question  raised in your notice.

            We  do have  a concern regarding the applica-

  bility  of  the modification process to  municipal sludge

  dischargers.   We  suggest  EPA make it clear in its

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                                                       63






 I   regulations that this modification process does not




 2   apply to the discharge of sewage sludge.  Sludge




 3   discharges have the unique ability of concentrating




 4   the most undesirable constituents contained in munici-




 5   pal waste.  Available information indicates that such




 6   discharges can and do have profound and  longer term




 7   environmental effects.




 8             Therefore, any consideration of modifying




 9   the requirement for sludge discharge would be inappro-




10   priate and would merely serve to delay much needed




    solutions to the environmental problems  posed by such




12   discharges.




              That completes my statement, and I would




14   entertain any questions that you might have.




15             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank you,  Larry.




              I have a couple of questions,  and I will




17   start with your last point.




              The agency is not considering  in any way,




19   shape or form including sludge under the provisions




    of this modification provision, so that  there should be




    no doubt on that, and we should start with that at




22   the outset.




23             MR. WALKER:   I think it would  be helpful to




24   specifically spell that out in the regulations.




25             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  You mentioned at the

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                                                       64
outset some procedural recommendations, and you men-




tioned also a little later on the reference to the




Seabrook decision.  And although on grounds other than




those that you incorporated in your reference to




Seabrook, that decision has been vacated by the First




Circuit Court of Appeals and has been sent back to the




Administrator for a new process.  The grounds for the




appellate decision were procedural, and we have been




spending a considerable amount of time in implementing




Section 301(h) on procedures, and we are trying to




establish one that is basically an expeditious pro-




cedure, one that has the fewest numbers of internal




or administrative appeals within it and reaches finalit




at least as far as the administrative process, as soon




as possible.




          One thing that we do have in Section 301(h)




is the requirement in the very first sentence that our




decisions, the Administrator's decision, must be with




the concurrence of the state.  Would you, representing




the State of California -- And perhaps this would




require additional thought -- think that that is




satisfied if we simply incorporate Section 401,




Certification Process, into these procedures so that




we could not act unless the state certified that our




decision was one that they were willing to concur in

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                                                       65



 1   but utilize the 401 process?


 2             MR. WALKER:  Offhand,  I would say that that


 3   would be a desirable way to go.


 4             Harry -- I have Harry  Schuler with our


 5   office here.  Do you have any  comments on that, Harry?


 6             MR. HARRY SCHULER:   I  think we would prefer

                          •
 7   just to issue a letter of concurrence.  We have a


 8   rather complicated administrative procedure whereby


 9   we issue the certificates.  We also charge for them


10   because they represent a substantial work load.  That


11   charge for major dischargers would be a thousand


12   dollars.  That's to offset our administrative overhead.


13             So we prefer to issue  a letter rather than


14   go through that administrative procedure, I think.


15             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  A second one, Larry, has


15   the state run any kind of analysis with respect to


17   the cost comparison of compliance with the ocean plan


lg   by the coastal communities of  California, presumably


19   under the newly adopted revision in '78, versus the


20   cost of secondary treatment; and, if so, could you


21   supply that for the record?


22             Another issue that I'd like to ask would be


23   would the state recommend -- And perhaps other agencies


24   of the state should be asked this same question, but


25   it's a generic one -- would the  state like to

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                                                        66
 1   recommend  that  certain  areas,  either because they are




 2   biologically  stressed  areas  or because  of other




 3   determinations  made  by  the  state,  have  certain  values




 4   with  respect  to coastal  zones  or  coastal  regions, be




 5   disqualified  from  consideration of any  modification




 6   for secondary treatment?




 7             MR. WALKER:   This  is a  basic  feature  of our




 8   existence,  of both the  past  Ocean  Plan  and our  proposed




 9   revision.   The  Ocean Plan does provide  the setting




10   aside  of areas  of  special biological significance into




11   which  no discharge is  allowed,  and that particular




12   program has been being  administered for some time now.




13   So we  would concur in that  approach.




14             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  One  question that  I'd




15   like  to address -- And,  again,  it's something that




16   you might  want  to  spend  more time  on and  prepare  a




17   more  detailed response  for  the record --  how does the




18   state  propose to deal with  the TICK,  which is the total




19   identifiable  chlorinated hydrocarbon standard,  in light




20   of the SCCWRP data,  Southern California Coastal Water




21   Research Project data,  chlorinated benzenes  and other




22   chlorinated hydrocarbons exceeding the  TICK  standard




23   by orders  of  magnitude?




24             MR. WALKER:   I think that rather than attempt




25   to answer  that,  I will  call  — if  you would  like  an

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                                                   67






answer now —




          CHAIRMAN JORLING:  No, I think that's --




          MR. WALKER:  Okay.




          CHAIRMAN JORLING:  -- a toughie to do a quick




one on.




          Paul or Don, do you have some questions?




          MR. DUBOIS:  One of the issues I believe,




is what  constitutes an existing outfall.  How would you




propose  to handle that one in California?




          MR. WALKER:  We think in situations like this




that what you have to do is go back to the intent of




Congress.  The intent of Congress was not to expend




funds needlessly, not to spend a lot of money for a




level of treatment that really doesn't give us any




environmental returns.




          So we would choose to take a fairly liberal




interpretation, if the choice was ours, of our particu-




lar requirement.   In other words, I think the people




from Watsonville got up and talked about an outfall




that currently was short.  They have a proposal to




extend it.  I think we would recognize their proposal.




          In terms of, you know, from a practical sense




I think  most of the communities that will be applying




for this waiver do, in fact, have existing discharges,




so I don't really anticipate that as a serious problem.

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                                                   68





          But, again, I think we have got to go back




to the intent of the law whenever questions like this




come up.




          MR. De FALCO:   Larry, would the state be




proposing any specific monitoring requirements on a




blanket basis for these kinds of waivers?




          MR. WALKER:  We have for some time now re-




quired rather extensive monitoring requirements through




the permit process.  In other words, not only do




agencies have a permanent program, they have an




extensive monitoring program.  And I think, in general,




it's our feeling that the data that is currently being




collected, at least insofar as the half a dozen or so




major dischargers in this state, is adequate to provide




the information that we need in relation to Condition




No. 2.




          And some of the other dischargers, where




waiver is found to be otherwise acceptable, I think we




may want to require some more extensive monitoring




programs.




          Another point that I might make is that, in




order to insure some consistency in the monitoring




programs that are developed, the ocean monitoring




programs that are developed throughout the state, we




have put together a Bays and Estuaries Technical

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                                                   69






Advisory Committee within the State Water Resources




Control Board, and that committee reviews, that small




group of people reviews, all of the monitoring programs




that have been developed throughout the state.




          So it could be through the mechanism of that




committee.  And in light of this particular amendment,




they may want to impose additional monitoring require-




ments .




          CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank you very much, Larry




          MR. WALKER:  Okay.




          CHAIRMAN JORLING:  The next witness is Ken




Kamlet, representing the National Wildlife Federation.




and I believe some other environmental organizations.




Ken?




          MR. KENNETH S. KAMLET:  I will be taking




about 20 seconds for each of our state affiliates,




so I guess in that sense, I am representing other group




          I would like to begin by noting that, of the




secondary treatment parameters, the only one -- let's




say the one of clearly greatest concern in the deep




ocean environment is suspended solids, for a large




number of reasons.  Sixty to ninety per cent of most




heavy metals in Southern California primary effluents




is associated with the suspended solids.  Secondary




treatment with associated suspended solids reduction

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                                                   70
reduces the toxicity of typical sewage effluent by




40 to 45 per cent compared to only 10 per cent for




primary treatment alone.  And suspended solids removal




is a good measure of -- for expected removals of oil,




grease and floatables.




          Two or three  other factors are also deserving




of note.  First, that the suspended solids phase of




sewage is a major factor in sewage-induced dilutions




in dissolved oxygen levels in bottom sediment with




associated adverse effects on benthic marine life.




          And,  second,  that absent secondary treatment,




the high suspended solids concentration remaining after




primary treatment makes disinfection of primary effluen




very costly and relatively ineffective by preventing




contact of the disinfectant with any pathogens con-




tained in the solids.




          It should also be pointed out that chemical




and microbial contaminants associated with sewage




particulates are likely to be far more biologically




available in that form  than when present in solution




under deep ocean conditions.




          So for all those reasons, total suspended




solids continue to be of concern in connection with




deep ocean discharges.




          I'd like next to make some general comments

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                                                   71






about the overall environmental impacts of ocean dis-




charges .




          It must be remembered after all that the




effects of no single discharge or pollution source may




be viewed in isolation.  These effects will tend to be




cumulative and may manifest themselves only over many




years of continued pollutant introduction.  In this




regard, the following facts must be borne in mind.




          Well over 12.3 billion gallons a day of




wastewater are discharged daily into ocean waters,




including two and a third billion gallons a day of




sewage alone.  And these figures cover only the




continental United States.




          The 1976 flow of sewage wastewater into the




Southern California Bight from just the five major




dischargers averaged one billion, twenty-seven million




gallons per day.




          In terms of total emission rates for individu




al constituents from these five major plants,  2,760




metric tons of ten toxic heavy metals; 4,136 kilograms




of DDT and PSB's,  and nearly 60,000 metric tons of




oil and grease were discharged into the Southern




California Bight  in 1976.




          In terms of relative inputs to the Southern




California Bight,  municipal wastewater contributes each

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                                                        72





 1   of  the  following  pollutants  to  an  extent  greater,




 2   and often  much  greater,  than  all other  major  point  and




 3   nonpoint sources  combined:   total  suspended solids,




 4   BOD,  COD,  oil and grease,  cyanide,  phenol, arsenic,




 5   silver, cadmium,  chromium, nickel  and DDT.




 6             In terms  of  readily observable  environmental




 7   impacts, as summarized on  Page  35  of my statement,




 8   each  of the following  effects is attributable,  at




 9   least in part,  to Southern California sewage  wastewater




10   discharges:




11             Detectable changes  in bottom  fauna  and  their




12   ecological relationships over some 145  kilometers  of




13   the Southern California  mainland shelf;




14             A depression in  echinoderm abundance  down the




15   slope from Palos  Verdes, even at depths well  in excess




16   of  200  meters;




17             Fin erosion  in the  Dover sole and other




18   soft  bottom fish;




19             A possible role  in  the etiology of  nonmalig-




20   nant  skin  tumors  in the  Dover sole and  the white




21   croaker;




22             Bone  deformities in three species of  fish;




23             Levels  of DDT  exceeding  FDA seafood limits




24   in  several species  of  fish caught  on the  Palos  Verdes




25   shelf;

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                                                   73





          Increased levels of DDT and heavy metals in




mussels;




          Reproductive failures in several species of




Southern California sea birds, including at least two




endangered species, and the California sea lion;




          A possible contributing role in the decline




of the kelp beds along the Palos Verdes Peninsula;




          Two to threefold increases in the level of




cadmium,  copper, silver and mercury in scallops;




          A tenfold increase in chromium in abalone and




scallop mussels;




          The death of a collection of gulls and




cormorants at the Los Angeles Zoo which were fed on




queen fish caught in the Palos Verdes area;




          Inputs of chlorinated benzenes which act as




mitotic poisons at levels tenfold those of the better




studied PCB's;




          And,  finally, enlarged and structural




abnormal livers in Dover sole and other fish off




Southern California and Washington in areas where fin




erosion is prevalent.



          In short, the National Wildlife Federation




is persuaded that ocean discharges off Southern




California constitute a clear and present danger to




the marine environment and associated ecosystems,

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                                                        74





 1   including man.




 2            Our  concern  for  the  well-being  of  human




 3   seafood  eaters  is  reinforced by  the  fact  that  about




 4   one-third of Southern  California's entire sport  fishing




 5   catch of 3.7 million fish  was  taken  from  the three  per




 6   cent of  the Bight  that  adjacent  to waste  outfalls,  and




 7   that over 80 per cent  of the commercial seafood  catch




 8   was landed off  Los  Angeles.  We  regard  it as unfor-




 9   tunate,  therefore,  that there  are still those  who




10   contend  that the ocean's capacity for assimilating




11   and utilizing  pollutants far exceeds the  capacity of




12   man to pollute  it.




13            We regard it  as  especially unfortunate when




14   such statements emanate from such influential  bodies




15   as the Southern California Coastal Water  Research




16   Project, whose  own  data contradict these  assertions.




17            I turn now to a  brief  summary of the key




18   principles established  by  the  legislative history of




19   Section  44, presented  in greater detail on Pages 19




20   through  27 of  my statement.




21            First, Section 44 leaves entirely  unaffected




22   the ocean discharge criteria promulgated  by  the




23   Administrator  under Section 403  of the  FWPCA.




24            Second,  in the words of the conference




25   report,  quote,  there are,  of course, constituents such

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                                                        75






 1   as polychlorinated biphenols which,  irrespective  of




 2   the  assimilative properties of  the ocean waters,




 3   cannot be  adequately dispersed  because  of  their




 4   persistence, close quote.




 5             Presumably,  this means  that sewage wastewater




 6   containing significant  levels of  such constituents  were




 7   not  intended to qualify  for a Section 44 waiver  from




 8   the  need for secondary  treatment.




 9             Third, the eight criteria  enumerated in




10   Section 44 as preconditions to  a  waiver were intended




11   to be, quote, stringent, close  quote, in the language




12   of the conference report, with  the burden  of proof  that




13   less than  secondary treatment is  sufficient resting




14   squarely on the applicant.




15             Fourth, only  outfalls on the  coast of  the




16   western US, on the coast of Hawaii,  Puerto Rico,




17   American Samoa, the Virgin Islands and  in  portions  of




18   an even smaller number  of estuarine  waters such  as




19   Cook Inlet near Anchorage, Alaska, were, by Congress,




20   to be considered to be  potential  candidates for  a




21   Section 44 waiver.




22             Section 44 should be  regarded as totally




23   inapplicable to ocean  outfall on  the East  and Gulf




24   Co as t.




25             And, fifth,  Section 44  was designed

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                                                       76





 1   principally to avoid the expenditure of funds on




 2   treatment for treatment's sake, with little or no




 3   resulting environmental benefits.  It was not intended




 4   to do away with environmentally beneficial secondary




 5   treatment practices.




 6             Before addressing the questions posed by




 7   EPA, it is important to emphasize that, in addition




 8   to the Federal Government's investigations under the




 9   Water Act, EPA's implementation of Section 44 should




10   be guided by the United States' responsibility to the




11   world community.  Thus, in establishing the stringent




12   ocean discharge requirements of Section 403, Congress




13   sought to have the US exercise a leadership role in




14   the protection of the oceans, a role which it was




15   hoped would serve as the model for other nations and




16   as the framework for international agreement over the




17   protection of the oceans.




18             In large part, as a result of US initiatives,




19   the London Ocean Dumping Convention was agreed to by




20   the representatives of 92 nations in late 1972.  The




21   very first article of this convention committed the




22   contracting parties, including the United States,




23   quote, to promote the effective control of all sources




24   of pollution to the marine environment, close quotes,




25   with a specific call for the use of the best practicabl

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                                                   77




means to control discharges through outfalls and



pipelines,  among other pollution sources.




          Moreover, since the London Convention defines




dumping to mean, quote, any deliberate disposal at




sea of wastes from manmade structures at sea, close




quotes,  a strong argument can be made that ocean




outfall  discharges are directly subject to the sub-




stantive provisions of the Convention, the standards




and criteria of which were made binding on the United




States in 1974 by the terms of Public Law 93-254.




          In short as indicated by Senator Howard




Baker, a member of the National Commission on Water




Quality, quote, "We have by treaty an international




duty to  keep the oceans clean," close quote.  EPA




should keep this duty in mind, in our view, in applying




Section  44 and the Water Act's other applicable pro-




visions .




          Having said all of this, I turn now to the




EPA questions.  A fuller discussion of these questions




can be found on Pages 27 through 42 of my statement.




          The first and fourth questions both concern




interpretation of the phrase "Applicable water quality




standards" as used in Section 301(h)(l).  I will,




therefore,  address these two questions first.




          With respect to the first question, we don't

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                                                        78




 1   see  much  problem  with  applying surrogate  parameters




 2   for  BOD and  total  suspended  solids  as  long as  the




 3   surrogates provide an  adequate measure  of the  waste




 4   characteristics previously discussed,  such as  absorbed




 5   persistent chemicals  and  benthic  oxygen demand likely




 6   to impact the  environment.




 7            Question 4  is a much more important  one.   We




 8   believe the  answer to  it  is  that  the concentration  of




 9   toxic pollutants  in discharges granted  a  modification




10   under Section  44  must  be  no  greater than  the concen-




11   tration which  would occur with secondary  treatment.




12   That such an evaluation is possible is  demonstrated,




13   for  example, by Table  GS-1 on  Page  GS-13  of  the Draft




14   EIS  of the City of LA's wastewater  facilities  plan,




15   which I would  like to  ask be incorporated into the




16   record of this proceeding in its  entirety.   It's  a




17   useful document.   The  reference table  compares




18   predicted wastewater  concentrations of  30 constituents




19   discharged by  the  five-mile  Hyperion outfall with




20   partial and  full  secondary treatment.




21             That such an approach comports  with  the




22    intent of Congress is  demonstrated  by the legislative




23    history of Section 44.  This history shows that Congres




24    meant to relax treatment  requirements only for the




25    conventional pollutants directly  addressed by  secondary

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                                                        79





 1   treatment as to which such  treatment  of  a  marine




 2   discharge might be considered wasteful and unavailing.




 3   Congress did not mean to allow any diminished  effluent




 4   reduction for those persistent constituents which




 5   cannot be adequately dispersed by ocean  discharge.




 6             In Senator Muskie's words,  quote, modifica-




 7   tion under Section 44 must  be limited to pollutants




 8   covered by the parameters which define secondary




 9   treatment, close quote.




10             In accord with this interpretation is that




11   of Mr. Jorling, as communicated to Senator Muskie  and




12   made part of Senator Muskie's explanation  of the




13   conference agreement.  Mr.  Jorling stated  that EPA




14   would permit relaxation only if, quote,  standards  for




15   the discharge of conventional pollutants regulated  by




16   the secondary treatment definition, close  quote, with




17   the continued application of vigorous controls on  other




18   pollutants, especially toxics.  In this  regard, in




19   addition to any other clarifying regulations which




20   EPA may issue, we would urge EPA in meeting the publica




21   tion requirement of Sections 301(h)(l) and 304(b)  to




22   take advantage of the opportunity to  articulate minimum




23   effluent limitations for all relevant persistent sewage




24   constituents which must be  met before an ocean discharg




25   can be deemed eligible for  a Section  44  waiver.

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                                                        80






 1            We would also urge EPA  to  specify  marine




 2  water quality standards for dissolved  oxygen at  least




 3  with respect to benthic oxygen  demand.




 4            EPA's second and third  questions concerning




 5  interpretation of the phrase "balanced  indigenous




 6  population" as used in Section  301(h)(2), in terms  of




 7  the second question, we believe EPA's  proper focus




 8  under this criterion is the incremental  impact caused




 9  by a waiver relative to that associated  with full




10  secondary treatment.




11            Of course, in enforcing Section 201  in the




12  context of the Section 301(h)(8)  criteria, EPA must be




13  concerned with the relative environmental harms




14  associated with land-based recycling and reclamation




15  measures versus those associated  with  ocean  discharge




16  at whatever level of treatment.




17            We answered Question  3  by  providing  a  working




18  definition of "balanced" and "indigenous" which




19  required the direct comparisons of ecosystems  in the




20  areas of outfalls with ecosystems in comparable  unpol-




21  luted environments.  Any statistically  significant




22  difference in the two environments would then be




23  regarded as flunking the indigenous  criterion.




24            Such an approach is directly  supported by




25  remarks of Senator Muskie, reinforced  by Mr.  Jorling's

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                                                        81





 1   letter  as  quoted on  Pages  34  through 36  of my  state-




 2   ment.   None  of  the  remarks on the  House  side contradict




 3   the  basic  thrust of  such  an implementation strategy.




 4             I  would like  to  point  out  that EPA has




 5   already in another  context,  as mentioned by the last




 6   speaker, namely thermal discharges under Section 316(a)




 7   of the  FWPCA, defined what is meant  by  a balanced




 8   indigenous population.   This  definition  can be found




 9   in 40 CFR,  Section  122.9(b).




10             Of the several  parts of  this  definition,  we




11   would not  object too strenuously to  the  representative,




12   important  species approach of Section 122.9(b)(2) where




13   full comparative ecosystem evaluations  were not




14   available,  if one important modification were  made.




15   The  thermal  discharge regs look  only at  impacts outside




16   of so-called mixing  zones.  While  this  may be  appro-




17   priate  for thermal  discharges, since hot water dissi-




18   pates readily in the marine environment, it is decided-




19   ly not  appropriate  for  persistent  toxic  chemicals which




20   are  not assimilated  in  any meaningful sense.




2i             So if the  Section 122.9(b)(2)  approach is




22   used, it should be  used without  regard  to spurious




23   mixing  zones.



24             Question  5 concerns the  pretreatment




25   requirement  of  Section  301(h)(5).   Although the statute

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                                                        82
arguably doesn't specifically require that pretreatment




requirements must exist at the time a Section 44 waiver




is granted, the answer already provided to the fourth




question greatly diminishes the practical impact of




Question 5.




          With respect to toxic constituents of sewage




wastewater, they may not be discharged with or without




pretreatment at levels which exceed those in a secondar




treated discharge or which would violate applicable




water quality standards.  If pretreatment can convert




an unacceptable discharge into an acceptable one, all




well and good.  If not, it can't be discharged without




full secondary treatment.




          Moreover, once pretreatment requirements have




been established at the local level, which I suspect




is the case for most dischargers potentially covered




by Section 44, it is clear that they must be both




enforceable and enforced before a waiver may issue.




          EPA's final question, Question 6, asks




whether POTWs treating only domestic waste must be




evaluated differently than those treating large amounts




of industrial waste.




          Our answer is that the criterion to be




applied to all POTW's should be the same, although




naturally plants with major industrial inputs will

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                                                        83





 1   require closer EPA scrutiny  and  will  have  more  diffi-




 2   culty in meeting their burden  of proof  under  Section




 3   44 than will be the case  for a purely domestic  POTW.




 4              I commend to the panel's  careful  considera-




 5   tion the additional recommendations outlined  on Pages




 6   42 through 44 of my statement.




 7              I will conclude by emphasizing that EPA




 8   should take pain to ensure,  regardless  of  the environ-




 9   mental impacts of a given ocean  discharge,  both in




10   implementing Section 301(h)(8) and  in developing ocean




11   discharge  guidelines under Section  403(c),  that adequat




12   attention  is given to the recycling and reclamation




13   requirements of Sections  201(b)  and (g)(2)(a),  par-




14   ticularly  as incorporated in Administrator  Costle's




15   October 3rd, 1977, policy statement on  land treatment




16   of municipal wastewater.  In Mr. Costle's  words, EPA,




17   quote, must exert maximum effort to insure  that its




18   actions reflect clearly visible  encouragement of waste-




19   water reclamation and recycling  of  pollutants through




20   land treatment processes  in  order to  move  toward the




21   national goals of conserving water  and  eliminating  the




22   discharge  of pollutants in navigable  waters by  1985,




23   close quotes.




24              Thank you.  We  appreciate the opportunity to




25   present these views.  I would  be happy  to  answer any

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                                                        84
questions.




          CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank you very much, Ken.




          Paul, do you want to start?




          MR. De FALCO:  Yes.




          Ken, one of the questions that's been asked




before and keeps coming up is what should be considered




an existing municipal discharge into marine waters.




Can you give us your thoughts in this area?




          MR. KAMLET:  Well, I don't have any hard-and-




fast answer to that.  It seems to me pretty clear that




there are certain things that are not existing discharg




sources for purposes of that provision.  Anything that




would be considered a new source for purposes of




issuing an NPDES permit, in my view, is clearly not




an existing discharge within the meaning of that




provision.




          It strikes me that any expansion of a




facility, an existing facility, where construction of




a brand new outfall pipe, a new discharge source, was




involved, would not be an existing source.




          Now, whether or not in a situation where an




existing short outfall pipe were extended so that it




was made longer and the discharge that comes out of it




is essentially the same as came out of the shorter




pipe would be considered an existing source, I really

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                                                        85
 1   can't  say  one  way  or  the  other.




 2             CHAIRMAN JORLING:   Don,  do you have anything?




 3             MR.  DUBOIS:   Go ahead.




 4             CHAIRMAN JORLING:   Lisa,  do you have anything



 5             MS.  FRIEDMAN:   We  have  talked earlier about




 6   using  the  concept  of  stress  biological areas  or biolog-




 7   ically  sensitive areas  as a  possible line for granting




 8   or  denying modifications  under  301(h).  What  do you




 9   think  of this  concept?




10             MR.  KAMLET:   Well,  I  think it makes some




11   sense.   It would tie  in with  the  need to avoid impacts




12   on  indigenous  populations; it would tie into  other




13   of  the  provisions  of  301(h)  as  well.   I think it's




14   a good  idea, along with the  other  things that have




15   been talked about,  not  by itself,  but in conjunction




16   with the other provisions of  301(h).




17             MS.  FRIEDMAN:   A second  question which we




18   are looking at may be sort of related.  How do you




19   think we should handle  the problem of the cumulative




20   effects  of granting modification  to several dischargers




21    which  discharge into  a  single body of water?




22             MR.  KAMLET:   Well,  I  think you definitely




23    do  need  to address that and  cannot  piecemeal  the whole




24   process by looking solely at  individual impacts.   I




25    think  that's going to take some  looking at ecosystems

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  in  the  receiving waters and projecting impacts as a




  result  of  the cumulative discharges on those indigenous




  ecosystems.




            I  think it's  going to take looking at the




  receiving  water  and projecting impacts as a result of




  the combined individual discharges on those receiving
  waters.
  Ken.
            MR.  De  FALCO:   I  have an additional question,
            Let's  look  beyond the issuance of a waiver,




  and  can  you  give any  thoughts as to what might be




  grounds  for  withdrawal  of  that modification from your




  perception?




            MR.  KAMLET:   Well,  I suppose any of the




  criteria that  served  as -- that were applied in




  deciding the waiver was appropriate, if it turned out




  once a waiver  had been  issued that something changes,




  there is a change in  circumstances which renders




  suspect  the  discharger's continued compliance with




  that precondition for a waiver, that certainly ought




i  to be a  ground for revocation of the waiver.




            If the plant  expands -- Let's say it's




  determined that, where  you have the same outfall pipe




  and  through  population  growth or whatever, there is an




  increase in  the  volume  of  material discharged through

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                                                        87
     that  outfall  and  it's  determined that  fits  within the




     definition  of an  existing discharge  under the  statute,




     it  might  be determined,  based  on the additional




     pollutant inputs  that  come in  with  that  volume increase




     that  conditions have sufficiently changed such that




     withdrawal  of the waiver is  appropriate.




 7             And I'd like to see  specific permit  condition




 8   spelled out in the permits and specific  provision in




 9   any regulations that EPA issues laying out  the possibil




10   ity of withdrawing approval  of a waiver  on  those  bases




11   and perhaps others.




12             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Ken, I  would just like  to




13   follow with one question and sort of explain to  the




14   audience  that we  have  violated my time rule in part




15   because yours is  a consolidated appearance, representin




16   several groups, rather than  a  whole  series  of  witnesses




17   And the question  deals with  procedure.




18             I had mentioned earlier our  desire to  have




19   an  expeditious process,  but  obviously  it  has to  be a




20   process with  full public participation.   I  would  lead




21   the witness a little bit.




22            Presumably,  you would insist on a public




23   hearing being incorporated in  that process, or do you




24   think there are some situations where  we  should  provide




25   in  effect,  for public  hearing  to be  only  upon

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                                                        88






 1  demonstration of sufficient  interest,  or  do  you  have




 2  any views?




 3            MR. KAMLET:  Well,  the  approach  required




 4  under the ocean dumping  law,  for  example,  which  I cite




 5  by analogy rather than the cause  of  any direct applica-




 6  tion, is to provide the  opportunity  for a  public




 7  hearing rather than insuring that  a  hearing  is held




 8  in every individual case  and perhaps  the  concerns you




 9  expressed could be reconciled by  providing that  hearing




10  were availalbe upon request  and a  showing  within that




11  request, any request that's  received,  justifying the




12  convening of such a hearing,  any  legitimate  issues  of




13  public concern that are  raised in  the  request  for a




14  hearing, then a hearing  would virtually be automaticall




15  granted in response to such  request.




16            If it's a straightforward  application,  it's




17  clear that 301(h) requirements aren't  met, I don't  see




18  any problem with EPA turning down  the  waiver request




19  without the need to convene  a hearing  unless somebody




20  asks for a hearing.




21            CHAIRMAN JORLING:   Thank you very much.




22            Before I call  James Perry,  let me give




23  another advance notice here.  Jim  is  followed by John




24  Spencer, as I have already mentioned.  Then John




25  Stratford from Eureka, California, representing

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                                                        89





 1   Humboldt Bay Wastewater Authority; David Phillips,




 2   representing the District, the Sewage District,  from




 3   Salem Massachusetts; and then Lori Adams, representing




 4   the Environmental Defense Fund.




 5             That presumably will get us to the  lunch




 6   hour.  And before the lunch hour, I will give another




 7   program of appearance.




 8             Jim Perry?




 9             MR. JAMES F. PERRY:  Good morning.  My name




10   is Jim Perry, and I represent the Food Processing




11   Industry in Watsonville.  Actually I represent some




12   20 food processors; but in the interest of mercy, I




13   promise not to take five minutes for each one.




14             Four and a half years ago, some 20  food




15   processors in Watsonville met to discuss water and




16   energy requirements for future years.  The Watsonville




17   Food Processors Water and Energy Conservation Associa-




18   tion was formed to study the problem, and at  that time,




19   our intent was to fully reclaim our washwater by using




20   it to grow crops.




21             And the processors, in the last four,  four or




22   so years, have spent some $75,000 of their own capital




23   with private consultants, plus some state Title  II




24   funds, for a study in conjunction with the City  of




25   Watsonville.  Unfortunately, this reclamation project

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                                                       90






 1   did not prove to be economically feasible.  But,




 2   despite this setback, one processor is now engaged in




 3   a pilot program on 45 acres to explore the possibility




 4   of utilizing plant washwater.




 5             For the record, as a group, we still  feel




 6   that our processing plant washwater is of sufficient




 7   high quality for use in crop irrigation without pre-




 8   treatment other than on-site quality control.




 9             Our dilemma is only partially economic.  We




10   are concerned, of course, with the high cost of water




11   and the high cost of effluent disposal, and right now,




12   the run-away cost of electrical energy.  Every  plant




13   in Watsonville has seen the cost of fuel and power




14   accelerate more than a hundred per cent in the  past




15   two years.  Our main worry, though, is the downstream




16   supply of sufficient water and sufficient energy.




17             The food processing industry in Watsonville




18   is still committed to saving its washwater -- to the




19   growing of crops with washwater.




20             In the meantime, we readily acknowledge our




21   environmental responsibilities to the entire California




22   community.  There is no question that heavy metals,




23   toxic materials, etc.,  are injurious to marine life.




24   This, however, is not the character of our processing




25   washwater.  We feel that we can utilize deep water

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                                                     91





  ocean outfall  with higher BOD levels than present




  EPA standards  without any damage to marine life systems




            Oxygen demand is not a problem in Monterey




  Bay with  out  relatively small outfall,  which is in an




  area of  extremely high turbulence and wave action.  And




  our data  suggests further that the ocean can remove




  BOD more  efficiently  than electrical energy at the




  secondary treatment  level.




            We would respectfully request that EPA




  review its present criteria of 30 milligrams per liter




  of  BOD for ocean discharge.   The cost of electrical




  energy to provide secondary treatment which meets EPA




  standards of 30  milligrams  per liter for ocean discharg




  is  our main problem.   Many  processors use large




  quantities of  water  for washing and blanching fruits




  and vegetables,  and we are  concerned that we will be




  unable to pass these  heavy  costs on to  the consumer.




            We are in a very  low-margin industry,  par-




j  ticularly with reference to certain vegetable items.




  Some  products  and some companies may be priced out of



  the marketplace.




            Now, our effluent  disposal disposal situation




  is  unique in that we  have a significant quantity of




  industrial  wastes, but they  are  not industrial wastes




  in  the sense that we  have talked about  here just

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                                                   92






recently a minute ago.  The overall effluent quality of




our sewage treatment plant water is like domestic




waste since our industrial wastewater is almost




entirely from food processing industries.  Our communit




is easily the biggest single frozen vegetable producer




on the West Coast, if not the world, plus a significant




factor in the freezing and canning of fruit.




          It is important here to make a point that




Watsonville is in a very unique situation on the




Central Coast.  The total economic balance of the




Pajaro River basin is centered around the washwater




of some 15 of the 20 processors I represent.  Each and




every processor is presently engaged in developing an




on-site monitoring and control system to determine




point source problems and to cure them before the




effluent leaves the processing plant premises.




          And I would like to conclude with a little




simile if you want to call it.




          Everyone eats soup.  It's a staple item on




every menu in every culture.  And our washwater is




essentially of the same character.  A processor's




blancher is basically a very short-term soup pot since




frozen food processors partially cook the product befor




they freeze it.




          Our effluent is not mine tailings, industrial

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                                                   93






or chemical residues, asbestos fibers or carcinogenic




wastes.   It is a mixture of low-strength fruit and




vegetable washes and rinses.  There is no substantive




pollution in our cook water other than nutrients.




          Our past studies have proven that we do not




vent chlorinated hydrocarbons or other toxic materials




to the present sewer plant.  The quality of our wash-




water can be further improved with presently available




on-site equipment.  If Watsonville could qualify for




an ocean discharge waiver, oceanographic studies in the




area of the present outfall support the fact that BOD




standards are not the answer.  Our data suggests that




parameters other than BOD are of much greater importanc




when assessing deep-water ocean discharge.




          And as we understand the purpose of this




meeting, we have been asked to share our views on how




EPA should interpret and apply the statutory criteria




which the applicant must meet in order to obtain a




modification waiver.  And we feel that any waiver,




doesn't matter who gets it, should stand on its own




merits as to location, the nature of the effluent and




the specific marine geography and currents at the point




of the discharge.



          We feel that the important yardstick is the




quality of the water.  The requirements and/or paramete

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                                                   94
should be set up to provide this specific result.




          Thank you.




          CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank you.




          Let me ask a couple of questions briefly.




          Do you and your members monitor for the full




range of pesticide residues before these materials are




discharged to the waste treatment plant?




          MR. PERRY:  Well, since the relatively recent




restrictions over the past few years on what we can




do with pesticides and herbicides in the field, the




vegetables are, in effect, monitored before they ever




get to the plant.  We can't run them.  We have had to




change our pesticide and herbicide control programs




radically in order to comply.




          CHAIRMAN JORLING:  But with respect to the




specific monitoring, you do not perform monitoring




of pesticide residues before they are discharged into




the plant?




          MR. PERRY:  Now, what do you mean?  Do we




monitor the vegetable when we bring it in, what the




count is?




          CHAIRMAN JORLING:  The washwater, before




it enters the treatment system, the publicly owned




treatment system?




          MR. PERRY:  Well, we have data which we can

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                                                   95





give you.  We don't monitor for it on a continual




basis, but the city is preparing a monitoring and




point source ordinance at the present time.




          CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Now, this obviously is




a question directed at you and your members, does not




create the negative side of the answer or would lead




to the negative answer, but one of the reasons uniform




technological standards were adopted for both Industrie




and municipalities was the uniformity and the desire




to avoid economic advantage as a result of different




pollution control requirements.  Would your industry




or members of your industry be concerned if there was




relaxation of pollution control requirements in other




areas with consequent major and signiciant reductions




in user charges when competitors in adjacent areas




would not take advantage of such reductions.  Does that




concern you?




          MR. PERRY:  Perhaps it was a rather lengthy




question.  Are you suggesting that we would not take




advantage of an economic situation as food processors




if we were given the opportunity to?




          CHAIRMAN JORLING:  In the particular situatio




in Watsonville, you obviously will.  As a representativ




of industry, does that cause you concern?




          MR. PERRY:  Oh, yes, it causes us great

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                                                   96
concern.  There have been small food operations close




all over the country because of inability to comply.




          It's odd in one respect that Watsonville




produces a massive amount of the California frozen




food and vegetable market.  And the economic impact




would be felt in one specific area severely.  If you




close down the 20 food processors in Watsonville —




          CHAIRMAN JORLING:   I'm not suggesting that.




I'm suggesting that food processors in the Central




Valley will not be able to take advantage of these




reductions in user charges and your members will; that




there is a potential for distortion there that's bad




public policy.  That's the question.




          MR. PERRY:  Well,  some of the food processors




in the Central Valley have access to more sophisticated




sewage systems which were built when things were cheape




already.  Modesto, for example.




          CHAIRMAN JORLING:   Any other questions?




          MR. De FALCO:  Let me take that one step




further, and let's talk about the adjoining area in




San Jose where they, in all  probability, will not be




eligible for this kind of a relief.  Is there a poten-




tial for an adverse economic effect in those two areas,




or a possibility even of the movement of some food




processors to the Watsonville area?

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                                                        97





 1             MR. PERRY:  Well,  the  adverse  economic




 2   effect in San Jose has already been  felt  because  there




 3   are several people making  arrangements to terminate




 4   food processing in San Jose  for  that  reason.




 5             Of course, the San Jose  economy is  a  tremen-




 6   dously diverse thing.  Food  processing is no  longer




 7   a major portion of their economy at  all.




 8             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Don?




 9             MR. DUBOIS:  No.




10             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Lisa?




11             MS. FRIEDMAN:  I have  one  question, also




12   about economics.




13             Has your group done any  study  on the  relative




14   costs of pretreatment in order to  meet these  criteria




15   versus secondary treatment?




16             MR. PERRY:  Yes, we have.   In  fact, I will




17   send you a copy.  It's a rather  extensive report.




18             MS. FRIEDMAN:  We  would  appreciate  it if  you




19   would submit that for the  record.




20             MR. PERRY:  We had attempted to totally




21   reclaim all our washwater  and put  it  on  the lands.  We




22   found at the present time  it wasn't  economically




23   feasible because of  the tremendous costs  involved.  But




24   I still think that that's  -- our long-term ambition




25   is to not put any water -- not waste  any  water.   But

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                                                   98







that's not attainable right now.




          CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank you.




          John Spencer, representing the Department of




Ecology for the State of Washington.




          MR. JOHN F. SPENCER:  I'm John Spencer with




the Washington State Department of Ecology.




          A little background.  The Department of




Ecology is a comprehensive environmental organization




responsible for water pollution control, air pollution




control, solid waste management, water rights adminis-




tration, shoreline management and other environmental




programs.




          I'm going to offer a few comments today in




a general  way and only dealing with the statutory




criteria that was laid down by Congress in passage of




Section 301(h) .




          To begin with, let me say it is our view that




Puget Sound and the Straits and the associated coastal




bodies are areas where applications for modifications




on secondary treatment by municipalities should be




considered by the Administrator of EPA.  However, very




general criteria can and should be established which




would obviously limit those areas in Puget Sound where




a modification might be granted.  The state is prepared




to work with the Regional Administrator or the

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                                                   99






Administrator of EPA to establish such criteria.




          EPA regulations implementing this amendment




should provide for the use of such general criteria




which would establish these kinds of limitations.




          Specific interpretations of how EPA should




interpret the eight statutory criteria should provide




guidance to modification applicants so that adequate




information will be provided the Administrator for his




deliberations.  The interpretations should not attempt




to cover every conceivable case where a modification




may be requested.  Each request should be evaluated




individually on the scientific evidence presented and




not be categorically decided upon in advance.




          Now, with regard to the eight criteria and




questions raised in your meeting announcement, I offer




the following comments.




          One.  Should utilize water quality standards




contained in state regulations which are surrogate




standards or related to BOD, suspended solids and pH.




These standards are set by the state to protect bene-




ficial uses and, therefore, provide the link between




a waste constituent, such as BOD, and various uses of




the marine receiving waters.




          Two.  The Administrator should evaluate




modification requests as a comparison between the impac

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                                                   100






of not requiring secondary treatment and the impact of




requiring secondary treatment in the marine receiving




water.  The benefits of secondary treatment in reducing




BOD,  pH,  suspended solids and other waste constituents




should be the, quote, bottom line condition against




which a modification is compared.  Secondary treatment




is the national standard for POTWs and should remain




the cornerstone of this program.




          Three.  It is nearly impossible to define




a "balanced indigenous population" in terms specific




enough to be meaningful to the variety of marine




situations that will be the subject of modification




requests.  Long-term cycles of population growth, as




well as specific geographical anomalies, must be taken




into account.  And, therefore, we feel greater reliance




should be placed on the water quality standards in




deciding to grant a modification with future biological




monitoring of populations done to assess the effects




of a modification.




          Four.  Toxic pollutants should not be allowed




to increase in concentration above that level normally




achieved with secondary treatment.  Removal of toxics




achieved in secondary treatment should not be lost due




to a modification.  Toxic removal is a benefit of




secondary treatment for which a modification is not

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                                                        101






 1   provided by  the  amendments.




 2             And  let me  depart  for  a  minute  here.   I  think




 3   we would also  endorse  the  comments by  the State  of




 4   California that  the toxics should  be  controlled  through




 5   the other portions of  the  Act, and it  should  not be




 6   considered a constituent of  domestic  waste  that  would




 7   be given a modification or result  in  an allowance  for




 8   discharge because of  a modification.




 9             Number five.  Pretreatment  programs must be




10   employed by  the  publicly owned treatment  works in




11   order to achieve the benefits of secondary  treatment




12   rather than BOD, suspended solids  and  pH.   However,




13   it would be  inequitable to require that enforceable




14   pretreatment programs  be in  place  at  the  time of




15   application.   State law should be  adequate  at the  time




16   of application to enable POTWs  to establish  enforceabl




17   pretreatment programs.  Should a publicly owned  treat-




18   ment not have  such a program, EPA  should  require one




19   as a condition of modification action, if necessary.




20             Six.  Publicly owned treatment  works with




21   domestic waste only should not be  treated categorically




22   different from those with domestic and industrial




23   wastes.  Consideration should be given to the differ-




24   ences in waste constituents  of each modification reques




25   and the merits of a modification measured against  the

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                                                   102






benefits of requiring secondary treatment.  Special




conditions for treatment may be necessary for large




industrial impacted publicly owned treatment works.




          Now, a few other comments that are not




specific to the questions asked in your public announce




ment.   I would like to go on for a moment.




          It is our view that EPA should place heavy




emphasis on the irreversibility of any decision to




grant  a permit modification.  While marine waters may




be capable of cleansing themselves should a modifica-




tion be found to be a mistake five or more years from




now, this may not be a practicable accomplishment in




many generations.  Moreover, decisions as to the




publicly owned treatment works plant design, location




and siting area will become more and more difficult




to adjust in the future as decisions are made on




construction in the next few years.  The impact of a




modification on these construction decisions and the




ability to adjust to secondary treatment in the future,




should it become necessary, must be considered in the




Administrator's decision.




          I would like to request EPA to provide for




small  communities to be reimbursed from the construc-




tion grant program for the expense of preparing a




modification application.  And I feel that this probabl

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                                                   103







can be done in the drafting of regulations dealing




with the set-aside for small communities in a state




such as Washington that is eligible for that set-aside.




Many small communities may receive great monetary




relief from a legitimate modification but may be unable




to apply for application because of application cost.




          We are prepared to offer technical assistance




to these small cities and towns, but feel it would be




more appropriate for qualified consultants to assist




in this process rather than a state or the EPA, who




must also judge the application.




          Finally,  your regulations should clarify the




relationship between EPA's authority to issue a permit




under Section 402 which modifies secondary treatment




requirements and the authority of states issuing NPDES




permits.   Specifically, are we correct to assume that




a state such as Washington with authority to issue




NPDES permits would grant  its concurrence to the




issuance of an NPDES permit modification?




          Your courtesy in hearing my remarks today is




very appreciated.   Thank you.




          CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank you,  John.




          I have one or two questions.




          First,  your statement on Page 4 regarding the




irreversibility of any decision.  The implementation

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                                                   104





of 301(h) it's clear must include the application of




the criteria under Section 403.  And in Section 403




there is the requirement that -- And I will read the




provision:




          "In any event, where insufficient information




      exists on any proposed discharge to make a




      reasoned judgment on.any guidelines established




      pursuant to this subsection, no permit shall be




      issued under 402."




          Do I read your comment basically as saying




that the agency should err on the side of caution




because of your concern over the irreversibility of




the decision?




          MR. SPENCER:  I believe so.




          CHAIRMAN JORLING:   The second -- Well, there




is one question that I think we can pursue at a later




time concerning the availability or the eligibility




of grant monies for preparing modification applications.




          MR. SPENCER:  Let  me add that my thought




there is that it be specific to the smaller communities.




We believe that there is capability among your medium




to large sized cities to do  this, but there are many




small, very small towns in the Puget Sound area that




might be eligible for this and that do not have the




capability  to prepare an application.

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                                                       105





 1             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  And then on the last




 2   point, your concluding question on the role of the




 3   states in this process, we do not view this as a 402-




 4   type process and, therefore, the state with NPDES




 5   authority executing it, that that is authority that is




 6   granted to the Administrator acting with the concurrenc




 7   and we believe that either a 401 process -- And the




 8   discussion I had with members of the staff of the




 9   board of California, that either the 401 certification




10   or a separate process for concurrence will be developed




11   but that the concurrence will not include the state




12   issuing the modification decision.




13             MR. SPENCER:  Well, let me add, then, that




14   this confuses us because the amendment provides for




15   a modification of an NPDES permit, secondary treatment




16   requirements of that, and this will leave the NPDES




17   permit which has been issued by the state in a very




18   uncertain status if it's not modified.  And I'm again




19   questioning.  We would like to have that clarified as




20   to once a modification is granted, is then the state




21   responsible to follow up with at least an amendment




22   after concurrence of the state-issued NPDES permit?




23             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  I think these questions




24   will be addressed and hopefully the answer will be




25   clear in the regulations.

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                                                        106






 1             MR. SPENCER:   Thank  you.




 2             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank  you.




 3             John?




 4             MR. DUBOIS:  Yes,  John,  I  have  just  a  couple




 5   of ques t ions.




 6             Under Washington  state  law,  can you  now




 7   approve a permit  for something less  than  secondary




 8   treatment, or would you  have to make your rules  and




 9   regulations  on the law?




10             MR. SPENCER:   We  can issue a permit  for




11   something less than secondary  treatment under  our




12   existing law.  The law is general  enough  that  it




13   provides for that.




14             MR. DUBOIS:  I see.   I  would wonder,  you




15   mentioned this small communities  issue relative  to




16   financing.   Would you favor some  differentiation based




17   on size of the application  requirements,  the  level  of




18   detail  and so on  from small communities versus  larger




19   ones?   Could that be a partial solution to the  problem




20   that you pose?




21             MR. SPENCER:   I suppose  it could be.   But,




22   on the  other hand, we are dealing  with something that




23   requires, it seems to me, a minimum level of  informatio




24   which,  to use a term which  we  used  earlier,  requires




25   a certain threshold of information  and documentation

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                                                        107





 1  which  I  think would  be  very  difficult  to  combine.   I




 2  think  I  would provide a cut-off  line  for  assistance




 3  to  the small communities  to  prepare  an application.




 4            MR. DUBOIS:   But the same  application?




 5            MR. SPENCER:   I  think  so.




 6            CHAIRMAN JORLING:   Thanks  very  much.




 7            John  Stratford,  Humboldt Bay Wastewaler




 8  Authori ty.




 9            MR. JOHN STRATFORD:  Mr. Jorling,  my  name is




10  John Stratford,  General Manager  and  Chief Engineer  of




11  the Humboldt Bay Wastewater  Authority.




12            I don't have  a  written  statement to  submit,




13  but I  did want  to make  a  few comments  and try  to keep




14  from taking too  much of your time.




15            In the essence  of  that  --  in the interest of




16  that,  I  would state  that  we  essentially agree  with  the




17  very first two  statements  that were made  by  Watsonville




18  and Orange County, and  I  think we will  just  go  on  the




19  record to that  effect and  quickly indicate to  you  one




20  of  the basic kinds of problems that we  have  to  deal




21  with in  our own  circumstances.




22            Humboldt Bay  Wastewater Authority  is  a joint




23  powers agency which  was recently  created  to  provide




24  the required level of treatment  and  disposal on a




25  regional basis.  We  have  moved forward rapidly  to  desig

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                                                        108





 1    a system which  is  in  compliance  with  federal  require-




 2    ments  of the  1972  Act  and  the  state  requirements  under




 3    the Porter-Cologne  Act.  We  really are,  in  essence,




 4    a mini metropolitan area.




 5             The authority  is a contractual  creation of




 6    two small cities,  a county and two local  service




 7    districts.  Our design population  is  70,000,  of which




 8    something over  93  per  cent is  served  by  existing




 9    collection systems  and recently  constructed collection




10    systems and about  seven  per  cent or  less  is served by




11    on-site disposal systems,  being  a  septic  tank leach




12    field.




13             We  are a  high  rainfall area.   We  are water




14    long,  not water short, and therefore  we  have  interestin




15    problems with the  reclamation  situation.




16             We  also  have problems  on anything that  talks




17    about  land disposal because  of very  high  water tables




18    and so we have  had  that  problem  to deal  with.  So being




19    controlled by the  State's  Bay  and  Estuaries policy,




20    which  is designed  to  protect and restore  the  water




21    quality of the  streams and valuable  ecological




22    resources, we,  in  our  regional systems,  have  designed




23    it to  eliminate eight  existing small  municipal




24    dischargers to  Humboldt  Bay  by conveyance to  a single




25    secondary treatment discharge  to the  ocean.  We have

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                                                   109



an existing NPDES permit for this ocean discharge to


substitute for all those existing small discharges


to the bay.


          And, therefore, we believe that our type of


situation should be considered an existing ocean


discharge for purposes of ocean discharge treatment

        •
modification.


          We happen to be at the point where we have


completed our design something over a year ago.  And


except for the fact that we ran into some local


opposition,  which isn't all that uncommon, it has


delayed us for the past year in going to construction.


We have had legal opposition which has prevented our


bond issue from moving forward.  And due to that, we


have not yet gotten under construction.


          The opposition has been in large part focused


on the fact of the high cost of secondary treatment


under just the effluent standards and not only the


cost from a dollar standpoint, but from an energy


standpoint to meet that for all conditions of flow.


And we actually view this particular change in the


law as the opportunity at this time when we are still


being held up by litigation which will probably go on


for at least a few more months to really look at the


possibilities of some relatively limited reductions in

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                                                        110
  treatment,  primarily dealing with our high winter




  flow situation,  which are very dilute flows of




  concentration,  and to maintain what  we would consider




  full secondary  treatment  requirements under most




  conditions,  but  be able to cut back  on just those




  limiting kinds  of  circumstances.




            We are not talking about industrial waste.




  We  have  essentially no industrial discharges.  We are




  primarily and almost exclusively  a normal domestic-




  type waste  situation.   We have already performed three-




  quarters of  a million dollars in  ocean studies as




  part of  our  design process,  or predesign information




  and for  baseline information for  further monitoring.




            We are prepared to do whatever is necessary




  and required under the very  terms we are talking about




  here controlling.   We just do think  that, in the




  interest of  all  parties,  EPA, the state and our local




  agency,  that there could  be  significant savings not




  only in  first cost, but in long-term operation if there




  were a  reasonable  degree  of  flexibility allowed and




  to  be able  to perform under  the state's proposed




[  receiving water  standards and without long, very long




  processing  of the  situation, be able to move forward




  rapidly  to  this.   And we  would have  at least a fair




  opportunity  to  solve some of the  local opposition

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                                                   Ill





problems which has been holding up this very vital




project and one which now has cease and desist orders




and connection bans on virtually the complete area.




          As I say, at the moment, it's at a dead




stop in large part because of the local perceptions




of the extremely high cost to gain a very, very tiny




amount of additional benefit.




          So we basically look to that as a basis for




coming up with rational solutions that would seem




rational to anyone, we believe.   So a key question is




existing discharge.  We do have an existing NPDES




permit.




          Another is the question of definition of




deep ocean outfall.  We happen to be on a remote




location of the coast with a relatively small discharge




compared to the big metropolitan areas with very




turbulent mixing action, and we are designed to get a




hundred to one initial dilution.  The same situation




would apply to length of any other such criteria.




          We do have a design one-mile long outfall,




but I don't know why one mile in any respect should




be a specific criteria.




          There is one other item that we would bring




up, and that is the whole question of using a per cent




removal requirement.  We do not think there should be

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                                                        112





 1   a criteria for  arbitrary  percentage  removal  since,




 2   as indicated  in our  case, we  have  very  high  winter




 3   flows, much above our  average  dry  weather  flows,  and




 4   we have, therefore,  a  very weak  sewage  during  that




 5   period of the year.




 6             So  anything  that would require an  85  per




 7   cent removal  is not  a  cost-effective  situation  for




 8   anyone in that kind  of condition.  So we would  request




 9   that there be flexibility and  reasonability  to  interpre




10   this kind of  situation and not just  some fixed




11   arbitrary type of requirement.




12             I would be ready to  respond to any questions




13   that you may  have.




14             CHAIRMAN JORLING:   Thank you  very  much.




15             I don't have any questions, nor  do any  of the




16   panelists.




17             I would like to try  and  move  on  to David




18   Phillips before we take a lunch  break,  representing the




19   South Essex Sewerage District  from Massachusetts.




20             MR. DAVID  L. PHILLIPS:   Thank you, Mr.




21   Jorling.




22             I realize  the time  is  getting late.   My




23   remarks will  be very brief.   They  will  be  followed  up




24   with a written  statement  that  will be forwarded on  to




25   you.

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                                                   113






          I am here because I was referred by our




EPA Regional Office, Region I, in Boston, Massachusetts




          We at the South Essex Sewerage District




represent a population of approximately 200,000 people.




We have a primary treatment plant capable of handling




41 million gallons per day.  We are located north of




Boston.  The plant itself is in the City of Salem,




Massachusetts.




          Last summer, when Senator Muskie's bill 1952




started to go through the Congress and the House-Senate




conference committees, we were very concerned about




the so-called deep ocean outfall provisions, and we




followed it very closely all the way through until




final passage.




          In the December 6, 1977, Congressional




Record, I do note that there are a couple of passages




that depth is a key factor determining the amount of




circulation, but circulation is also a factor.  And




further on, they make reference to rip currents and




strong tidal movements as being able to contribute




and also the distance off shore for location of outfall




          My only point that I would like to make here




this morning is that unfortunately on the East Coast,




we do not have deep ocean outfalls.  However, we,  lie




in the very northeast portion of the country, and we

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                                                   114






do have a number of other factors, which I will detail




in my written statement.  I just this morning would




like to make brief mention of them.




          We have tidal currents.  We have a rise in




our tide ranging between ten and fifteen feet average




per day.  Our tidal currents average somewhere between




two and four knots moving out of the Salem-Marblehead-




Beverly-Peabody area.   We have prevailing winds from




the west that average fifteen miles per hour blowing




out to see, and we sit at the mouth of the Danvers




River in an estuary area.




          Currently, our outfall pipe lies some two




miles out to sea.  And we have begun with our




consulting engineers to conduct very serious and




extensive monitoring tests of the effluent standards




throughout the area that we are located.  We are pre-




pared, if necessary, to extend our outfall an addition-




al three miles to sea, which would get it to a depth




that exceeded a hundred feet.




          At the present time, we lie in approximately




40 feet of water.




          At this point in summarizing, we feel that




our primary facilities meet the state standards.  We




are compiling a great deal of data to show that they




do.  And we are mostly concerned that, when we get into

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                                                        115





 1   the procedures  and  the  application  for  secondary,  that




 2   we are at  least  allowed to  present  our  case  to the




 3   EPA.  And  at  this time  we are  asking  for  really no




 4   more than  that.




 5              And  that  would conclude my  remarks.   If  you




 6   have any questions  .




 7              CHAIRMAN  JORLING:  Dave,  are  you familiar




 8   with the California Ocean Plan?




 9              MR.  PHILLIPS:  I  was briefed  on it by Mr.




10   Harper from Orange  County,  but I  am not that -- I  have




11   copies of  it  now, and  I am  not that much  familiar  with




12   it in detail.




13              CHAIRMAN  JORLING:  Based  on that very initial




14   review, is it  your  understanding  that the State of




15   Massachusetts  has anything  to  the equivalent?




16              MR.  PHILLIPS:  Yes.   Massachusetts does  not




17   have the BOD  standard.   However,  they do  have the




18   dissolved  oxygen, turbidity and  color.




19              CHAIRMAN  JORLING:  Are  there  any requirements




20   on any of  the  toxic pollutants in the waters in which




21   you presently  discharge --




22              MR.  PHILLIPS: There are  standards —




23              CHAIRMAN  JORLING:  —  under Massachusetts --




24              MR.  PHILLIPS: There are  standards for that,




25   yes.

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                                                   116





          CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Okay.




          MR. PHILLIPS:  Thank you.




          CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Let's try Lauri Adams




representing the Environmental Defense Fund.




          MS. LAURI ADAMS:   My name is Lauri Adams.




I'd like to make just a few very, very brief statements




on behalf of Mr. James Tripp of the Environmental




Defense Fund.




          In general, our concern with ocean discharges




of municipal wastewater is not with traditional




pollutants such as BOD or suspended solids.  Indeed,




we recognize that marine waters typically contain




sufficient oxygen, unlike many of our inland rivers,




to handle tremendous quantities of BOD.   Our concern,




instead, is with heavy metals, pathogenic material,




toxic organics and, in some cases, nutrients.  Since




secondary treatment, relative to primary treatment,




does not treate any of these pollutants efficiently




or effectively, neither level of treatment may be




adequate to protect the marine waters and the oceans.




From this limited perspective, the modification




requirement is largely irrelevant.




          However, the modification criteria of




Section 301(h) can and should be utilized as tools to




utilize -- to achieve important water management

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                                                        117





 1   objectives.  And EDF would support  their  use  for  these




 2   purposes.




               First, the elimination  of municipal  discharge




 4   of toxic pollutants to marine waters.




 5              Second, reclamation and reuse of wastewater.




               Third, controlled  recycling  of  mineral




    nutrients, and




               Fourth, cost-effective  implementation of




    Section 208 programs for  controlling nonpoint  as  well




10   as point sources of pollution in  coastal  communities.




11              Congress introduced the concept of  effluent-




12   based standards into the  Federal  Water Pollution




13   Control Act as a result of the  frustrating experience




14   of basing  effluent limitations  solely  on  water quality




15   standards  as required under  the 1965 Federal  Water




16   Pollution  Control Act.  Congress  adopted  this  point of




17   view because of the technical,  administrative  and




18   enforcement difficulties  in  dealing with  water quality




19   based effluent limitations and  because of an  expressed




20   need for rational uniformity.   The  specific  standard




21   of secondary treatment was chosen by Congress  because




22   it was thought to be generally  needed  nationwide  to




23   achieve  the water quality goals of  the Federal Water




24   Pollution  Control Act amendments  and was  technically




25   achievable.

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                                                        118






 1             Section  301(h),  Modification  Provision,  of




 2   the  1977  Clean  Water  Act  recognizes  that  uniform




 3   effluent  standards  require the  secondary  treatment




 4   condition  in  some  circumstances be justified  based on




 5   the  water  quality  objectives  they were  designed  to




 6   serve.  Yet if  the  new  Section  301(h)  allows  modifica-




 7   tion of secondary  treatment  requirements  based on  the




 8   nature of  the receiving medium,  the  Environmental




 9   Defense Fund believes that it is entirely  appropriate




10   to consider in  conjunction with the  Section 301(h)




11   modification what water quality objectives should  be




12   sought for coastal  waters.   Our analysis  suggests  that




13   secondary  treatment is  not especially meaningful for




14   ocean dischargers of municipal  wastes.  On the one




15   hand, treatment of  BOD, suspended solids  and  pH  is not




16   appreciably better  served  by  secondary  treatment than




17   primary treatment.  But other pollutants,  such as




18   heavy metals and toxic  pollutants, should  not be




19   discharged into a dispersal  medium at all.  Breakdown




20   of the discharged materials  by  chemical and biological




21   decomposition,  remineralization  and/or  a  recycling of




22   essential  nutrients are actually slowed down  consider-




23   ably under highly dilute conditions  such  as are  found




24   in the oceans.




25            Toxicants may disrupt  biological stability

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                                                   119





by causing both lethal and sublethal effects on




sensitive marine organisms.  These impacts are often




very extraordinarily difficult and expensive to measure




The impacts from these materials are magnified because




of the ability of marine organisms to concentrate or




bioaccumulate these materials in their tissue.  Bio-




logical accumulation is further intensified by movement




of these materials up the food chain, impacting high-




level organisms, including both shellfish and fin fish.




          As a practical matter, more stringent control




of toxic pollutants can be achieved only if the coastal




community implements a stringent toxic pollutant pre-




treatment program, a comprehensive program in the




context — in the context of Section 208 planning to




control point and nonpoint sources of toxic pollutants




into the marine waters or moves in accordance with an




improved schedule to a wastewater recycling  and




reclamation system.




          All of these measures are important because,




without imposing protective conditions on modifications




of secondary treatment requirements, there is a strong




incentive for municipalities to continue discharging




wastewater into the ocean and avoid much expensive,




although more effective, land treatment and recycling




alternatives.

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                                                        120






 I             The Environmental  Defense  Fund  sees




 2   modification as a means  for  ultimately  moving  communi-




 3   ties away from total reliance  on  ocean  discharge.   To




 4   this end, Section 301(h),  in effect  introduces  an




 5   important funding tool which EPA  and coastal communi-




 6   ties should use to achieve critical  water quality




 7   objectives which sole reliance  on the secondary




 8   treatment requirement cannot possibly achieve  for  the




 9   same expenditures of funds.




10             That's the end  of  my  prepared comments.   In




11   the interest of lunch and also  because  Mr.  Tripp  is




12   vastly more informed on  this than I  am, if  it  would




13   be acceptable to you, I would  just  as soon  refer  all




14   your specific questions  to him.   He  has submitted  a




15   prepared statement.  I assume  you have  that.   And  we




16   will be happy to elaborate on  any specific  points  in  it




17             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank  you  very much.




18             Before we do break for  lunch, let me  read




19   the next five off and then during lunch,  we will  have




20   the list typed up and post it;  and  upon your return,




21   we will have the rest of  remaining  order  available for




22   you.




23             And the next block of five:




24             William Anderson from Kennedy Engineers.




25             Arthur Henzell  from  the Goleta  Sanitary

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                                                        121





 1   District.



 2             Ivan Day from the Lakehaven Sewer District.




 3             Lester Evans from the Encina Joint Powers




 4   Sewerage Agency, and




 5             Fred Harper representing AMSA.




 6             We will post the remaining  list  at lunch.




 7             (Noon recess . )




 8             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  We have  a long afternoon




 9   ahead of us, so I'd like to get started.   We have




10   approximately 20-plus more witnesses  that  want  to  speak




11   In the  interest of trying to expedite that, where




12   statements have been made already and a  witness  wants




13   to repeat those, I think a cross-reference to  them




14   and an  endorsement might be more helpful than  restating




15   the same point over and over again.




16             We will try and break, oh,  somewhere  around




17   3:00 to 3:15 for a little relief and  then  go on to




18   completion.




19             And so we will try to adhere to  a  time rule




20   of five to seven minutes with  the  remaining  witnesses,




21   And the first one this afternoon is William  Anderson




22   from Kennedy Engineers.




23             MR. WILLIAM A. ANDERSON:  The  Congress and




24   the EPA are to be complimented in  recognizing  that




25   there may be potential assimilation capacity in

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                                                        122
 1    certain  receiving waters  rather  than  continuing  to




 2    mandate  a uniform and  arbitrary  treatment  level  where




 3    there  is no proven  need.   The  use  of  assimilation




 4    capacity where  appropriate will  allow a  conservation




 5    a  scarce resources,  such  as building  materials,  energy




 6    and  chemicals.   However,  it may  require  a  great  amount




 7    of effort to  take advantage of this  option.




 8             If  the burden of proof is  placed solely  on




 9    the  discharger,  waivers only may be  within the  reach




10    of a few large  agencies.   We feel  that the amount  of




11    evidence should be  commensurate  with  the magnitude




12    of the discharge and perhaps that  obtaining of  such




13    evidence should be  grant  eligible  because  75 per cent




14    of the capital  cost savings would be  on  a  savings  to




15    the  government.




16             Consideration should also  be given to  pro-




17    visions  to  relax existing secondary  treatment require-




18    ments  on request in order to monitor  effects of




19    primary  effluent to form  a basis for considering a




20    waiver.




21             This  brought up an interesting question  at




22    lunch, and  the  question  is: Will EPA consider  a




23    waiving  for  a discharger  who presently has secondary




24    treatment facilities just in order that  he may  save




25    annual O&M  costs, or would it  be limited to ones who

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                                                        123






 1   have not yet  constructed  secondary  treatment  facilities




 2             EPA has been  quoted  as  saying  that  waivers




 3   will apply  only when  existing  outfalls  are  used.   We




 4   believe there is no technical  merit  to  such a limit  --




 5   limitation  to the waiver  and,  further,  that an outfall




 6   extension might have  considerable benefit,  both




 7   monetary and  environmental.




 8             Further, we understand  that waivers may  only




 9   be  allowed  where there  is no substantial increase  in




10   flow.  Again,  we see  no technical merit  to  such a




11   limitation  if it can  be demonstrated that some growth




12   within a reasonable planning period  would have no




13   adverse effect on the environment.




14             Thank you.




15             In  case I didn't say my name  first, it's




16   Bill Anderson from Kennedy Engineers in  San Francisco.




17             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Bill,  the  statute speaks




18   with the terms "existing discharges,"  and you are




19   saying that -- Well,  maybe it  would be  best to have




20   you restate your views  on what the  regulations might




21   say about that, about that requirement.




22             MR.  ANDERSON:  An  existing discharger is




23   one thing.  An existing discharge through an existing




24   outfall is  another.   We are  suggesting  that an




25   allowance be  made so  that the  point of  discharge

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                                                        124




 1   perhaps could be  relocated,  which  is  one  issue.




 2             The second  --  And  I  believe this  was  touched




 3   upon this morning  --  that  I  think  Larry Walker  and




 4   others mentioned  that,  if  one  more  connection  is




 5   allowed to  the  sewer  system,  it  constitutes an  increase




 6   in  flow.  And so  you  are not  telling  us,  are you,  that




 7   you want us  to  have a building ban?




 8             CHAIRMAN JORLING:   You know, we are  not




 9   making conclusions at this meeting. What  we are  trying




10   to  do is get peoples'  recommendations on  these  --




11             MR. ANDERSON:  As  a practical matter  --




12             CHAIRMAN JORLING:   —  criteria.




13             MR. ANDERSON:  --  if the  facility was  planned




14   20  years ago for  10 years  of growth,  then we feel  that




15   the existing discharge should be not  the  present  flow,




16   but the planned flow.




17             CHAIRMAN JORLING:   All right.




18             Paul?




19             MR. De  FALCO:  Bill --




20             MR. ANDERSON:  Yes.




21             MR. De  FALCO:  --  can  you give  me some  ideas




22   of  what is  the  difference  in maintenance  and operating




23   costs between a primary  and  a secondary  treatment




24   plant on a  general basis,  an order of magnitude?




25             MR. ANDERSON:   I don't have that on  the  tip

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                                                        125





 1   of my tongue, but I did see an article, I think written




 2   by Montgomery, in the Journal recently that said of




 3   a secondary sewage treatment plant, some 93 per cent




 4   of the energy costs were due to the activated sludge




 5   portion of it.




 6             MR. De FALCO:  How significant a difference




 7   will there be between secondary and the state Ocean




 8   Plan requirements, which I perceive are very different




 9   than primary?




10             MR. ANDERSON:  Yes.  And it might be that,




11   if strict adherence to secondary was not required,




12   there are some intermediate processes that might be




13   considerably more cost effective, perhaps even the




14   tripping filter process, if available, could be much




15   more economical to operate on an annual basis and still




16   address itself to some of the conventional and noncon-




17   ventional pollutants that were discussed this morning.




18             MR. DUBOIS:  Would a tripping filter plant




19   likely produce the same effluent in terms of toxics




20   removal as an activated sludge plant?  I ask that




21   question --




22             MR. ANDERSON:  I'm not really sure exactly.




23   i think it would be in the same order of magnitude




24   proportionately to the solids removal plant.




25             Benny, do you want to talk  about that?

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                                                   126
          MR.  DUBOIS:  The reason I ask is there's




been some testimony that, if a waiver were granted,




that the toxics removal should be equivalent to that




that would be  removed by a secondary treatment plant,




and I didn't know whether, in your judgment, a tripping




filter would be as effective as other forms of




secondary treatment in that regard.




          MR.  ANDERSON:  It probably could be designed




to be.




          CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank you, Bill.




          The  next witness is Arthur Henzell from the




Goleta Sanitary District.




          MR.  ARTHUR A. HENZELL:  Mr. Jorling and




members of the panel:




          I'm Arthur Henzell, representing the Goleta




Sanitary District.  The District is a public agency




near Santa Barbara on the California Coast.  We process




the sewage of  five small agencies, and we have a total




discharge of between five and six million gallons per




day, which is  discharged through an ocean outfall into




the Pacific Ocean.  The outfall line goes out approxi-




mately a mile  at 93 feet in depth.  The diffuser is




approximately  283 feet long.




          I have submitted a written statement which




addresses each of the eight criteria stated in the law

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and answers the questions posed  in  your  notice  of




this meeting.




          We also cite in that statement  the  appropriat




legislative history.




          The basic point of our statement is that we




think that you should give appropriate consideration




to the smaller agencies which may apply under this




modification provision.  You should realize that, in




most cases,  these smaller agencies have less  resources




and the funding is less available than it is with the




large metropolitan areas.  They do not, in most cases,




have the years of detailed study of the ocean




environment  around their outfall lines.




          We are very concerned that the regulations




be set up in a way that they not preclude these smaller




agencies from obtaining a modification.  In light of




this,  we urge that the regulations be set up  in a




flexible manner so that they can take these matters




into account.




          I  will comment briefly on the eight criteria,




if I may, and I hope not to repeat what was said




before.




          With regard to Criteria No. 1, we agree with




the statement of Mr. Larry Walker of the State Board




staff.  We feel that there should be the related or

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                                                        128





 1   surrogate parameters used  and  that  these  should  be




 2   set forth and that you should  be  guided by  the Ocean




 3   Plan.




 4             We feel that the  intent of  the  law  is  very




 5   clear  in this regard.




 6             With  regard to Criteria No.  2,  which assures




 7   the protection  of the marine biota, we could  go  into




 8   a detailed discussion of tests.   However,  again  we




 9   think  that the  regulations  should be  flexible in this




10   regard and should provide  guidelines  of evidence which,




11   again, do not penalize the  small  district which  does




12   not have the reams of information which some  of  the




13   larger agencies might have.




14             With  regard to the monitoring requirement of




15   Criteria No. 3, we believe  this was intended  to  provide




16   monitoring, not monitoring  in  the past but, rather,




17   monitoring in the future.




18             We believe that  this requirement  is tied  to




19   the fact that there will be a  five-year review of any




20   modification.   Again, the  legislative history seems




21   clear  on this point.




22             We have no comment with regard  to Criteria




23   No. 4.




24             However, in connection  with the pretreatment




25   requirement under No. 5, we trust that this will be

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                                                        129







 1    interpreted so that we  are  talking  about  a  pretreatment




 2    program which is  available  and  will  be  implemented  at




 3    the  time the modification is  approved,  not  something




 4    in the past or at  the present.




 5             This, again,  relates  to the small district




 6    which may not have had  time to  implement  an extensive




 7    pretreatment program at  this  time.




 8             With regard to Item No. 6,  a  schedule  of




 9    activities to eliminate  toxics  from  nonindustrial




10    sources, we would  urge  that this provision  be  inter-




11    preted -- that at  least  the words "applicant has




12    established" be interpreted to  mean  that  the schedule




13    has  been put together and will  be implemented  at the




14    time the modification is granted, not something  that




15    has  been in effect or is in effect  necessarily at  the




16    time of the application.




17             With regard to Criteria No. 7,  we would




18    agree with other  speakers that  this  should  not be




19    limited to present flows but  should  be  tied into the



20    NPDES permit.




21             With regard to Criteria No. 8,  the funds  to




22    be used to carry  out the purposes and requirements  of




23    the  Act, not only  is it  indicated in the  legislative




24    history that these funds should be  available for water




25    reclamation, but  it  also seems  to clear to  us  that

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                                                        130




 1   these funds should be available for the monitoring




 2   program which, in many cases, will be  extremely




 3   expensive for the smaller agencies also for  infiltra-




 4   tion control and some other matters which will carry




 5   out the purposes of the Act.




 6             Those are the eight requirements specifically




 7   of the Act.  However, we feel that the definition




 8   section that comes later really constitutes  perhaps




 9   a ninth criteria.  This deals with the definition of




10   marine discharges and refers, of  course,  to  the




11   assimilation of the discharge into the ocean.




12             There's been a lot of discussion and there's




13   discussion in the Act and in the  history, legislative




14   history of the act, of depth and  distance, distance




15   from the shore, as factors.  However,  we  feel that




16   other factors should be considered, and we think  that




17   the legislative history of  the Act indicates that they




18   should be considered.  Particularly where you have  a




19   small discharger, it seems  unfair to  set  up  minimum




20   requirements  for depth and  length of  outfall.




21             Some of the other factors which we feel




22   should be considered are the strength  of  the tidal




23   and other hydrological action, the salinity  of  the




24   receiving waters, the density differential between




25   the discharge and the receiving waters and their

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                                                       131






    respective temperatures.




              In addition to the eight criteria we men-




    tioned -- And we tried to cover some of the questions




    which were listed in your notice under each of those




    criteria — there were two questions that we didn't




    fit within each one of those.  One was whether or not




    toxic pollutants should be no greater than they would




 8   be under secondary.  We feel that the real test in




 9   this case should be whether or not the California




10   dischargers at least meet the Ocean Plan as revised.




11             We would agree with Mr. Walker in this




12   regard.




13             Also with regard to the question of whether




14   plants treating domestic waste should be treated




15   differently than those with large industrial discharges




16   we feel that perhaps in the case of smaller discharger




17   there could be an abbreviated procedure which would




18   take this into effect and that the evidence necessary




19   in the case of a discharger which has primarily




20   domestic waste would be less than in the case of  the




21   large industrial discharger.




22             In summary, we hope that, in writing  the




23   regulations, you will keep in mind the Congressional




24   intent, which we feel is adequately set  forth in  the




25   legislative history, that the smaller  agency will be

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 1    included.




 2             You will  recall  that  at  least  four times in




 3    the  legislative  history, there  is  a list of  West  Coast




 4    dischargers, most of  which are  what I  would  define as




 5    the  smaller  dischargers.




 6             We also would  hope  that  you  would  keep  in




 7    mind the  fact that  the evidence which  they can provide




 8    is not  going to  be  -- at least  the smaller discharger




 9    can  provide, is  not going  to  be as extensive as it




10    might be  in  the  case  of  the large  discharger who  has




11    had  the funds and the ability to test  the receiving




12    waters  and make  the other  --  the monitoring  over  a




13    long period  of time.




14             In other  words,  we  hope  that the regulations




15    will be flexible enough  to apply to all  of the




16    dischargers  that were intended  to  be covered by the




17    legislation.




18             Thank  you.




19             CHAIRMAN  JORLING:  Thank you,  Arthur.




20             Paul,  any questions?




21             MR. De FALCO:  Mr.  Henzell,  what's the




22    current level of treatment at Goleta?




23             MR. HENZELL:   Primary.




24             MR. De FALCO:  What would be the additional




25    operating costs  for secondary?   Do you have any idea

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                                                        133






 1   in terms of magnitude of money?




 2             MR. HENZELL:  I heard -- We just discussed




 3   that a minute ago when that question came up before,




 4             MR. De FALCO:  I meant in terms of Goleta




 5   proper.




 6             MR. HENZELL:  Well, my understanding would




 7   be about two and a half times.  Was that correct,  Ed?




 8   Our Manager is here, Mr. De Falco.




 9             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Two and a half times  the




10   cost of primary --




11             MR. HENZELL:  Yes.




12             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  -- or two and a half  times




13   the cost of the California Plan?




14             MR. HENZELL:  As far as  I know, it would be




15   two and a half times the cost of primary.




16             FROM THE FLOOR:  The charge would go  from




17   $2 a month to $7.83.




18             MR. HENZELL:  From primary to  secondary.




19             MR. De FALCO:  What would be the  cost  of




20   attaining the California Ocean Plan requirements?




21             FROM THE FLOOR:  We haven't studied  that.




22             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Lisa,  do you have  anything?




23             MS. FRIEDMAN:  No.




24             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Don?




25             MR. DUBOIS:   I wonder,  have you  made any

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                                                        134





 1   estimates at all of the cost of applying for this




 2   waiver?




              MR. KENZELL:  We have.  I don't know that




    we have estimated.  We have entered into a  contract




 5   with our engineers for this and other matters.




 6             Is there a segregation line?  Perhaps you




 7   can tell us that.  This is our engineer from Brown  and




 8   Col dwell.




              FROM THE FLOOR:  We have established an




10   outside budget of $125,000.  We really haven't defined




11   all the work.




12             MR. DUBOIS:  $125,000.  Is  that the prepara-




13   tion of the materials that you would  understand now




14   would be needed  to submit with the waiver request?




15             FROM THE FLOOR:  We have established that




16   as an outside budget.  What the actual program and




17   what additional  field studies would be required,  we




18   don't really know at  this point in time.




19             MR. DUBOIS:  Thank you.




20             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank you very much.




21             The next witness  is  Ivan Day  from the




22   Lakehaven Sewer  District.




23             MR. IVAN DAY:   Mr. Jorling  and  honored




24   members  of  the  panel:




25              I'm Ivan Day  from Lakehaven Sewer District,

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                                                       135





1   and it's located in Federal Way, Washington.  And if




2   you depart from Sea-Tac Airport, very often to the




3   south, you look down on either side of the  airplane,




4   and you are looking at us.



5             We are in the southern part of the main




6   portion of Puget Sound.  We have an agreement with




7   Metro on our east side for the portion that drains




8   into  the Green River drainage.  We have an  agreement




9   with  Milton and Pierce County for a portion of our




10   drainage to the south, and we have an agreement  with




11   the City of Tacoma, which  is underway at this  time,




12   so you  can see approximately what our boundaries are.




13             We are not an old district.  We  were formed




14   in 1956, but the first construction was done  in  1961.




15   We built  a second plant in 1969,  and we normally run




16   a  dry weather  type  flow of a million gallons,  slightly




17   over  at  this time.




18             We have  a very  tight  system because it's




19   basically a new  system.   So  the inflow  is  not a  problerr




20   in our  district.




21              I noticed in reading  some  of  the paper work




22   that  has been  furnished  to us  that  there  has been




23   comments more  than  once  about  accounting  of district




24   records and costs  of  operations and  so  forth.  And




25   we do have  a very  sophisticated accounting system.

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 I             The Examiner's Office  in  Washington  uses




 2   us  as an example on many occasions  for  other agencies.




 3   So  I think most of the agencies  do  a  pretty good  job




 4   of  that.  If they will follow  the State Examiner's




 5   guidelines, they should have excellent  luck with  their




 6   accounting.




 7             We have converted to in-house computers,




 8   and we  presently are  running seven  programs on the




 9   computer, and we hope in the long term  to  put  some  of




10   our operations of our treatment  plants  on  computers.




11             We do not at this time anticipate asking  for




12   a waiver on our Redondo primary  plant.   Our secondary




13   application, our Step 2 application,  is in, and I




14   hope that it is very  close  to  being awarded, and  we




15   would like to go ahead with that.




16             Now, our Lakota plant, which  is  in on a




17   Step 1  at this point, we would like to  consider it




18   later when we see the rules and  the effect of  the




19   rules that it would have on our  district in particular.




20             Characteristics of the water  in  Puget Sound




21   off of  the Dumas Bay, where our  Lakota  plant is




22   located, has adequate dissolved  oxygen  and very rich




23   in  nutrients and quite rich in oxygen,  too.   I shouldn




24   say just adequate.  It's quite rich and generally the




25   amount  of effluent being discharged by  these  two

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                                                        137
 1   plants' outfalls is small when compared  to  the  total




 2   volume of water encompassed from Point Robinson  to




 3   Browns Point.




 4             Lakota outfall is discharging  about one




 5   million gallons per day and Redondo outfall  also




 6   discharges about one million gallons per day.




 7             Since these are.both very small volumes  and




 8   the mixing is relatively good in this  area,  there  is




 9   adequate oxygen in the ambient receiving waters  and




10   more  than adequate to supply the biological  demand




11   of the effluent.




12             The Puget Sound trench,  lying  off  the  end  of




13   our outfalls, goes down to a depth of  a  little  over




14   600 feet.




15             The tidal currents under the water are




16   quite strong, too.  The divers tell us,  the  submarine




17   fellows tell us, that the bottom is quite scoured  in




18   the — particularly at our Lakota  outfall.




19             We had colored movies made  from a two-man




20   submarine from our outfall from where  it comes  out of




21   the ground at about 30 or 40 feet  all  the way down




22   to the outfall, and they  are in good  condition.   There




23   is no debris around the end of the outfall.   And in




24   one case, there is a  fish of approximately  18 inches




25   in length which is swimming very  leisurely  into the

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                                                        138






     outfall  pipe  and  very  leisurely  back out,  so that




     water  is certainly not  offending the fish,  if  that's




 3    any  indication.




 4             Octopi, or octopus, whichever  is  correct  --




 5    I'm  not  a marine man -- are  in abundance.




 6             And  I will respond to  the  eight  conditions.




 7             No.  1,  it is  my response that  as  basically




 8    small  districts and small agencies,  our  Department




 9    of Ecology has an excellent  criteria that  we live by




10    and  we feel like  in the case of  the  No.  1  condition




11    that their standards and their enforcement  would  be




12    sufficient in  our state.




13             The  second condition,  I submit Exhibit  A,




14    which  is an example of  what  we did in  our  Step  1




15    program  at Lakota Treatment  Plant, and it  covers  11




16    pages, and I will just  touch on  the  headings.




17             It talks about the --  It's a biological




18    investigation.  It talks about the water and its




19    makeup.  It talks about the  invertebrates  other than




20    shellfish.  It talks about shellfish.  It's done  in




21    a quite  scientific response, done by very  sophisticated




22    people in this business, and it  discusses  shellfish.




23             It also gets  into  fish and fisheries  and




24    then waterfowl and water-associated  bird life,  the




25    most probably  number of coliform bacteria  — And  we

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                                                        139
 1    have  lab  tests  in  the  submittal  in  the  back  that  back



 2    up  our  testing  --  and  the  chemical  testing of  sediment




 3    samples.




 4              And it delves  into  the characteristics  of




 5    Dumas Bay and its  vicinity.




 6              I will touch on  Exhibit B while  I'm  on  the




 7    exhibits,  and Exhibit  B  shows the dates that we did




 8    sampling  and the locations, and  there  is a map in the




 9    back  of the book which shows  the locations of  our




10    sampling,  the depths of  the water and  so forth.




11              And we have  -- I won't go into all the




12    sampling  for the sake  of time.   We  did  sample  for




13    volatile  solids, chemical  oxygen demand, nitrogen,




14    oil and grease, mercury, lead,  zinc,  sulfide,  arsenic,




15    iron, copper, chromium,  cadmium, nickel, phosphorous




16    and DO, of course,  and these  and the next  page shows



17    some  other responses from  the lab.




18              Now,  our cost  on this  material was --




19              I don't  know about  other  people, but my




20    glasses fit fine until I start  speaking; and then all




21    of  a  sudden, they  get  very slick on my  bridge  mount.




22              Our cost at  that time  was slightly over




23    $5,000.   I would guess --  That was  in  '75  and   '76.  I




24    would guess now it  would still be less  than  ten,  but




25    it  would  be in that range, about $10,000 to  do this

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                                                       140




1   sort of thing.



2             We hired a submarine, a two-man submarine.




    There is a diving school in Federal Way at Redondo,




4   and the two-man submarine had the pilot -- the owner




5   of the submarine and a student from the diving school.




    They have a scoop that takes soil on the bottom of the




    Sound and it has a clamp that comes back over with




8   that sample and it comes to the surface, and the




    samples that were tested were 78 per cent solid.   So




10   it wasn't filtered out with water, as you can see.




              The system worked quite well.  The submarine




12   cost, as  I recall, was in the neighborhood of about




13   $2800 or  $2300.  We have that data, if  anyone would




14   care to contact us.




15             The rest of it was marine lab expenses.   So




16   I would guess if  this were made  a mandatory  type  thing




17   that the  price  of that would probably  jump when they




18   realized  we had to  do it.   So  I'm sure  it would go




19   three  or  four  times higher.




20             The  third condition  was  referring  to  monitor




21   ing impact.  And  along  with  the  exhibits we  turned in,




22   I  would suggest five  samples  be  tested as  per  Exhibit




23   B  to be obtained near the  outlet of  the outfall and




24   approximately  one-fourth mile  in each  direction near




25   the same  depth and  two  samples near  the shore at  about

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                                                        141
 1   the  same  distance  in  each  direction  from the outfall.




 2             Some  areas  with  varying conditions may need




 3   different  sample  criteria  or  location,  depending on




 4   tidal  action, bottom  deptti and etc.




 5             And appropriate  maps,  of course,  should




 6   accompany  such  exhibits.




 7             The fourth  condition we concur with and




 8   suggest  again the  rules  and the  monitoring  of our




 9   present  Washington State Department  of  Ecology and




 10   our  federal  agencies  are sufficient  at  this time to




 11   protect  this consideration.




 12             The fifth condition is that applicable




 13   pretreatment requirements  would be enforced.  And,




 14   again,  I  fall back on my prior response.




 15             The sixth condition, in our case, we don't




 16   have industrial;  we are  predominantly a living area,




 17   suburban residential  area.  We presently serve about




 18   50,000,  a little  over 50,000 people.  We are connecting




 19   between  four or five  thousand people a year at the




 20   rate we  have gone the last two years, and I would




 21   suggest  the  toxic pollutants could be checked and




 22   that if  a five-year program,  as we are suggesting here




 23   was  set  up on waivers that that would be sufficient




 24   for  a  small  agency which does not have industrial




25    activities that would contribute to  toxics.

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          The seventh condition is one that bothers




me considerably.   It will be -- My response is it will




be very difficult for many areas experiencing growth




to comply with this condition.  If --




          Now, my interpretation may be different than




what was intended.




          If the waiver specifies the quantity of the




discharge must not exceed the amount being discharged




at the time of waiver issuance, then most small




agencies in the Northwest could not conform as most




are experiencing growth in some degree.




          As I read the data furnished prior to  this




meeting, in interpreted the data to imply the waiver




could be for an anticipated specified quantity in




addition to the present flow.   I would hope this



interpretation is correct.




          I would suggest perhaps if this was being




considered for modification, that perhaps the increased




discharges might be tied  also to the pounds of BOD and




settleable solids and so  forth  in relation to the




million  gallons per day type of arrangement so that




one is not restricted to  a  limited  amount of  gallonage




          The eighth and  last  condition,  the  condition




is  long, and  I won't read it, but my response is our




interpretation of this condition  is  that  an agency

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                                                       143
that had received funding for advanced treatment




construction would be obligated to spend this funding




on other needs,  such as I&I work, interceptors, and
so forth.
          But we feel that such funding, if not used
for the purpose that it was awarded, that it be sent




back to the agency that issued it in the first place




to be prioritized and sent out to the agencies that




badly need it for whatever their purpose might be at




the time.  And I think that should go back through




the group of people that establish those things.




          I sincerely appreciate the invitation of




Mr. Dubois to appear at this informational meeting  and




for the opportunity to present this data for your




consideration.  And I wish to extend my thanks to the




Region X staff of the Environmental Protection Agency




in Seattle, in particular to Mr. Ellerman for his




cooperation and help, and to our engineering consultant




Mr. Donald Williams of Williams, Ross & Associates.




          And if we can offer any additional informa-




tion or  testimony or respond later, we would be very




happy to do so in writing at some future time or  to




serve in any sort of activity you would care for  us to



do.




          CHAIRMAN  JORLING:  Thank  you.

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                                                        144





 1             MR.  DUBOIS:   I'm just  curious on one point.




 2             As  I  understand  it,  you propose not to seek




     a  waiver  on the  Redondo  Beach  outfall?




 4             MR. DAY:  Not  at  this  time.




 5             MR. DUBOIS:  But  you do  on Lakota.   What




 6  were the factors that went  into  that decision?




 7              MR.  DAY:  I hesitate to  disturb  the  status




 8   quo.  And  if I might step backwards a  little bit, we




 9   started in '69 -- I remember when  Roy  -- or  '68.  I




10   remember when Roy Ellerman  came  up from the  office




11   when it was in Portland, Region  X, and we  went over




12   the Redondo plant at that time and discussed our needs




13   to enlarge.  And at that time we were  looking  at the




14   enlargement of our clarifiers and  the  things that go




15   with it.   We were estimating something  a  little  less




16   than $500,000.




17              Well, now, we  have grown to  the  point, and




18   the rules  have changed and  the needs have  changed,




19   that we are looking at about five  million,  or  a  little




20   more, to do this.




21              And, of course,  the amount of  capacity we




22   are seeking now  is probably double what  we would have




23   -- we were seeking ten years ago.




24             I'm afraid to  disturb  the status quo.   I'm




25   afraid  if  we  go  back to  waiting  for a  new set  of rules

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                                                       145






 1   and we need enlargement, it's something critical, I'm




 2   afraid to disturb it, frankly.  I would like to go




 3   ahead with Step 3 unless there was some quick method




 4   of improving that situation.




 5             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Paul?




 6             MR. De FALCO:  No.




 7             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank you very much.




 8             The next witness  is Lester Evans from the




 9   Encina Joint Powers Agency.




10             MR. LESTER G. EVANS:  I'm Les Evans, General




11   Manager of the Encina Joint Powers Sewerage Agency,




12   serving the North San Diego County.




13             And as the meeting has gotten longer and




14   longer, I have edited my remarks so they  will be




15   shorter and shorter.




16             In general, we support Mr. Larry Walker's




17   statements regarding utilization of the California




18   Ocean Plan as the applicable water standard.  And,




19   in fact, we pretty much support everything that  Mr.




20   Walker said.




21             Perhaps one  issue we would part ways on woulc




22   be the statutory criteria  requiring that  there be no




23   new  or substantially increased discharges above  that




24   involving discharge  specified  in  the permit.  We




25   believe the  intent  there  is that  the reference  to

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                                                        146






 1   volume of discharge be that specified in the NPDES




 2   permit and not necessarily that flow which was




 3   occurring on the day modification was granted.




 4             We are pursuing reclamation aggressively.




 5   We agree that reclamation should be emphasized.  How-




 6   ever, under certain circumstances where reclamation  is




 7   not economically feasible, we feel that the volume




 8   of discharge should be capable of being revised, just




 9   as any other permit condition, as circumstances




10   warrant .




11             Referring to the statutory criteria  concern-




12   ing monitoring systems, care should be taken not to




13   exclude arbitrarily an otherwise eligible  agency.




14   Certainly, the monitoring standards should not be  so




15   extensive that a small or a relatively small agency




16   discharging ten to twenty million gallons  a day be




17   required to spend a disproportionate amount of its




18   budget in meeting this requirement.




19             Additionally, we feel the monitoring require-




20   ment should -- referred to in a program should be




21   in effect at the time  a waiver is granted  and  not




22   necessarily prior to that time.




23             We believe that the effect of the discharges




24   of small Southern California  coastal treatment plants




25   with relatively minor  industrial wastes discharging

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                                                       147






    through ocean outfalls over a mile offshore and over




    a hundred feet deep should be recognized as having




    significantly less potential for harming the environ-




    ment compared with the larger hundred million gallons




    per day agencies just on the basis of this volume




    alone and that that fact should be taken into considera




 7   tion in the writing of the regulations.




 8             We appreciate the opportunity to testify




 9   here in advance of the preparation of these regulations




10   and agree with the EPA's concern that the waiver




11   provisions must be restrictive.  However, we also




12   agree with the agencies that have mentioned the  legis-




13   lative proceedings and the Congressional intent  here




14   and feel that that should be looked  at  very carefully




15   and that the intent was to allow waivers in certain




16   cases under certain conditions.  And we  feel that  these




17   conditions do exist along the Southern  California  coast




18             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank you.




19             Les, is your present  discharge characterized




20   as primary?




21             MR. EVANS:  Yes.




22             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Is it expected  that the




23   adjustments would be  made  if the California  Plan applie




24   to it?




25             MR. EVANS:  Yes.   Right  now,  for  instance,


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                                                     148
just on suspended solids, we are discharging about 90




parts per million,  or 92-500 would have required 30,




and with 75 per cent removal under the Ocean Plan,




we will have to meet 60, so we almost fall right in




between.  We will have to make some improvements.




          CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Paul?




          MR. De FALCO:  Yes.




          Les ,  you indicate that you don't think such




an extensive monitoring program is to be overly -- or




a disproportionate amount of money should be spent.




Can you give us an idea of what you mean by an appro-




priate amount of money for a ten to twenty million




gallons per day plant?  You must have some idea in




mind.




          MR. EVANS:  Well, for instance, our total




budget right now is under a million dollars, and even




under the California Ocean Plan, I would expect to




stay under two million dollars for operating costs.




          Right now, our monitoring costs are probably




about ten per cent of our budget, and I would like to




stay in that same range.




          CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank you very much.




          The next witness is Fred Harper, representing



the, I guess, AMSA, it says here.




          MR. FRED HARPER:  Correct.

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                                                     149
          Mr.  Jorling,  members of the panel:




          My name is Fred Harper, President of the




AMSA,  the Association of Metropolitan Sewerage Agencies




          We welcome the opportunity to comment




generally on the problems involved in developing




regulations to implement Section 301(h) of the 1977




amendments to the Water Pollution Control Act.




          A number of AMSA members are represented




here at this public meeting and are providing the




details on some of the options EPA is considering in




drafting regs which will be effective in these




agencies.  Our points,  therefore, are general and




procedural in character, and hopefully brief.




          First is the general tone and goal.




          Congress has tossed EPA a tough assignment




since now some judgment must be exercised, rather than




the easier former system of simply requiring secondary




treatment across the board.  We note that recently




EPA has accepted oxidation ponds in some situations




as providing secondary treatment.  In any event, the




goals should be to establish regulations which are




clear, which are reasonable and which will help  in




achieving Congress'  aim which, as we see it,  is  to




enable some coastal  agencies to  avoid waste  of public




funds, federal, state  and  local, where there  is  no

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                                                      150
     appreciable  beneficial  environmental effects from such




     expenditures.




               One point  of  considerable  importance  is




     timing.  We  urge that no  regulations  be  promulgated




     which have the result of  freezing  the  situation  into




     a period of  time in  the past.




              For example, it would be foolish,  in our




 8    view, to require that a monitoring system must have




     been in existence and meeting prescribed standards




10    as of December 27th, 1977, the date of enactment  of




11    the amendments.



12             In addition, many coastal agencies are  com-




13    mitted to improvements for which construction is




14    underway, utilizing  federal funds.  Waiver considera-




15    tions should take this into account  in determining




16    the effects  of the discharge on a  marine environment.




17             On the question of burden of proof, we




18    believe it is clear  that  the applying  discharger  bears




19    the burden fully.  We hope and trust,  however,  that




20    EPA's staff  does not deem its role to  be an  adversary




21    but, rather, it should be demanding  in the material




22    that must be submitted  and should  have a healthy




23    skepticism about the quality of the  data and their




24    analysis.




25              But EPA should  also want Section  301(h) to

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                                                 151






carry out the Congressional intent underlying it.




Accordingly,  we presume that the Administrator may




approve an application with a proviso, or a series of




provisos, that the approval is subject to.  It would




be foolish to deem the process to be a game in which




the applicant would be deemed to have lost because




its initial application was incomplete.




          In short, we argue for a process that will




enable the Administrator to have the data and arguments




before him, with the flexibility to grant an applica-




tion, to deny it or to approve it with conditions.




          Although statutory language does not require




public hearings, we believe it highly desirable to




set up the process for the Administrator's review in




a fashion that will provide an opportunity for the




broadest possible  input.




          The NPDES permit program seems  ideally




suited for this purpose, and we suggest it for your




consideration.




          We  are pleased to answer any questions  or




provide  any information you might wish.




          CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank you, Fred.



          Paul?




          MR. De FALCO:  You know, Fred,  we  got  into




a series of questions earlier  in  the  food processing

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                                                     152






 I   plants down in the Watsonville area, and I want to ask




 2   you in terms of AMSA representing a number of inland




 3   as well as coastal communities, do you see any problem




 4   with an unusual advantage being established here for




 5   a coastal community in terms of cost of treatment




 6   vis-a-vis industrial facilities and the possible




 7   flight of industrial facilities from inland communities




 8   to the coastal areas?




 9             MR. HARPER:  Well, first  I'll say that one




10   of the provisions, of course, of the statutory




11   criteria is that we have to comply with all pretreat-




12   ment requirements.  So industry is not going to get




13   off on that basis.




14             MR. De FALCO:  Well, I'm  thinking basically




15   of the food processing industries.




16             MR. HARPER:  Okay.  The food processors,




17   I think the — I am going to avoid  the point possibly




18   in that I think the costs of waste  treatment is one




19   of many things that come into  a consideration  of where




20   you locate  a  plant.  You have  labor; you  have




21   utilities,  land, and this is just another feature  of




22   it.



23             But  it may be  less money  for  them, yes.




24             CHAIRMAN  JORLING:  Don?




25             MR.  DUBOIS:  No.

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                                                 153






          CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank you, Fred.




          MR.  HARPER:   Thank you.




          CHAIRMAN JORLING:  The next witness is Rim




Fay, who is representing himself.




          MR.  RIMMON C. FAY:  Mr. Jorling and members




of the committee:




          Thank you very much for having this hearing




and an opportunity to appear here today.




          I am Rimmon C. Fay, Venice, California.




          I'm a member of a number of organizations,




including the American Fishery Society and the National




Coalition for Marine Conservation.  All the organiza-




tions with which I am affiliated have taken very strong




positions with regard to the matter of water quality




and the protection of the productivity of the marine




environment.




          While I'm speaking today as an independent




marine biologist and not for any of these organizations




I should like to assure you that my comments are




consistent with the goals and objectives of these




organizations.




          Specifically, I wish to address two of the




eight points to be reviewed today as announced in the




Federal Register on February 3rd.  These two points,




two and three, deal with the maintenance of a balanced

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                                                 154






indigenous population of fish,  shellfish and wildlife,




and allows recreational activities in and on the water




and the problem of monitoring on a discharge to the




extent practicable.




          My concern with these matters arises from




a long and intensive personal record of observation




of the marine biota in Southern California.  This




experience has included chemical, bacteriological,




oceanographic and biological studies and observations.




          While these studies are essentially limited




to this area, the fundamental properties of living




organisms suggests that all aquatic ecosystems will




be impacted more or less similarly by inadequately




treated wastes.




          This principle of protection of the waters




of this nature — nation is cardinal in the following




signal pieces of legislation:




          The Federal Coastal Management Act;




          The Federal Fisheries Management and Conserva-



tion Act;




          The Federal Clean Water Act and




          The California Coastal Act,




          In each of these significant legislative




acts, considering aquatic resources, it is explicit




that the quality, integrity and biological productivity

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                                                 155
of the waters of these United States can only be




assured by adequate protection of these waters from




pollut ion.




          In the event that a waste discharge is able




to obtain a waiver from the requirement to achieve




secondary waste treatment and still achieve adequate




reduction in biochemical oxygen demand and suspended




solids while maintaining adequate control of the pH




of effluent wastes, such waiver may only be granted




if it is consistent with the goals and objectives of




these and other laws in addition to the Federal Clean




Water Act.




          A number of observations, including, but




not limited to, the following suggests that, at a




minimum, secondary waste treatment for deep marine




discharges should be required in Southern California




in order to assure the protection of the health of




the public and the maintenance of a healthy and diverse




marine biota.




          Inshore ocean waters in Southern California




receive a daily input of about one billion gallons of




combined domestic and industrial waste effluent




exclusive of thermal waste discharges.  These wastes




enter an aquatic system which must be managed as if




it turns over on an annual basis and in which inshore

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                                                 156


water masses may receive repetitive, multiple waste

discharges plus accidental spills of oil or other

hazardous materials.

          Thus, with a slow rate of turnover, waste

fields dilute upon waste fields, which may be impacted

by accidental spills.  This situation results in
                            •
saturation of inshore circulations cells with pollutant

as described by Inman and Brush.

          Reduction in the standing crop and diversity

of benthic algae in the vicinity of sewage outfalls

has not been consistent with the maintenance of a

balanced indigenous population of shellfish, fish and

wildlife as these plants are the basis of food chains

upon which some species of fish and shellfish, such

as opaleye perch and abalone,  may be dependent.

          I have noted the disappearance of several

species of organisms such as shrim, clams, and fishes

coincident with the increase in waste loadings intro-

duced into local sea waters.

          Observations recorded in my laboratory have

shown that larvae of molluscan shellfish may be vul-

nerable to the presence of suspended solids as the

velum of the larvae suffers damage which proves fatal

to the larvae as a result of these encounters.

          Toxic impacts upon sensitive marine

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                                                      157





 1   organisms  of  anaerobic liquors from sewage digesters




 2   and  effluents from primary treated wastes must be




 3   extensively studied before such waivers may be granted.




 4             Reduction of ambient lighting (shading) and




 5   sedimentation of  suspended solids  on marine plants




 6 I  has  not  received  adequate  study but  such  effects  if




 7   only recognized qualitatively  must  be  resolved with




 8   much more  accuracy  before  relaxation of controls  on  the




 9   release  of suspended  sediments is  permitted.




10             Alternatively, discharge  of  suspended




11   sediments  is  presumed and  in  fact  represented  as  an




12   enrichment of nutrients  for suspension feeding organ-




13   isms but in fact,  again, this  has  not  resulted in




14   demonstrable  increases  in  suspension feeding organisms




15   utilizing  suspended sediments  as an  energy source.




16             Again,  in fact,  the  presence of suspended




17   solids resulting  in shading and fouling of algae  may




18   be responsible in  part  for the reduction  of abundance




19   in benthic algae.   If this is  the  case, more bottom




20   area should be clear  and available  for suspension




21   feeding  organisms  because  it  is not  occupied by algae,




22   but  this has  not  occurred.  What has occured is a




23   "balanced  decline"  in total biota  (all species suffer,




24   albeit some more  than others)  in areas impacted by the




25   discharge  of  inadequately  treated  wastes.

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 1             At least under some conditions,  the  design




 2   objective of rapid initial dilution of  deep  ocean




 3   discharges may not be succeeded by subsequent  equivalen




 4   rates of dilution with the result that  relatively  long




 5   distances across the sea floor and will  arrive onshore.




 6             As an example, Santa Monica Bay  may  sustain




 7   periods of very low rates of water turnover  when  it is




 8   essentially stagnant for 30-40 days at  a time.  During




 9   episodes of stagnation, waste dilutes upon waste  until




10   saturation is achieved.




11             It is possible to define the  distribution of




12   the waste field in Santa Monica Bay by  the absence of




13   at least one key species, the giant kelp,  Macrocystis,




14   and the presence of one fouling species, the bryozoan,




15   Victorella.  Macrocystis is essential as a basic  plant




16   in the marine ecology of Southern California.




17   Victorella competes and may displace other organisms




18   and may be debilitating to crabs.




19             Speaking as one who has dived  along  the




20   coast of Southern California and Central California




21   and who has dived all of the Channel Islands,  areas




22   subject to massive waste discharge compare very poorly




23   for purposes of recreational diving and  fishing versus




24   those areas which are relatively unpolluted.




25             Inshore waters from Santa Monica Bay have

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                                                     159





 1   have been found to be lethal when used for mariculture



 2   of some invertebrate species.  Presumably this is a




 3   result of the pollution of such waters which therefore




 4   do not now meet the test of sustaining balanced biotas




 5   of shellfish, fish, and wildlife.




 6             All of the above observations indicate that




 7   a balanced indigenous biota does not exist in the




 8   local areas affected by massive waste discharges.




 9   Until such areas can be restored and enhanced from




10   the present circumstances, I strongly question whether




11   waiver from secondary waste treatment requirements




12   will be consistent with attaining the environmental




13   goals of several legislative acts dealing with aquatic




14   resources and coastal zone management.




15             Let us assume for the purposes of discussion,




15   however, that as a result of the progress of this




17   hearing that a waiver on BOD, suspended solids and pH




18   requirements is granted by EPA for deep ocean dis-




19   charges.




20             First and foremost, as an agency, EPA must




21   assure that the granting of such a waiver is legally




22   permissible; this assumption is implicit in the fore-




23   going and consideration (3) must now be discussed.




24             What will be involved in monitoring a




25   waivered discharge to assure compliance with the

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                                                 160





objectives of the Federal Clean Water Act, the Federal




Coastal Zone Management Act, and the Federal Fisheries




Conservation and Management Act?




          First, at the present time, as a result of




multiple point and nonpoint sources of pollution,




distinct monitoring of a discharge of wastes that




comingles with other wastes cannot be achieved for




any substance other than an extraordinary atom, ion,




or molecule unique to a specific discharge and amenable




to extremely sensitive, precise analysis.  Even




assuming that this may be achieved as a result of




appropriate analysis, it must be unequivocal that the




biological impact of such a pollutant is distinct and




separable from the additive and synergistic impacts




of any and all other comingled pollutants present in




variable and unpredictable amounts in the receiving




waters.  Attempts to achieve reproducible bioassays




may be impossible under such non-reproducible conditionjs




          Second, contemporary investigations of the




effects of wastes upon the present inshore biota




begins after a period of more than 30 years of adverse




impact from waste discharges.  Thus, adjacent to more




of the major outfalls, a disturbed, greatly altered




biota of more or less tolerance to the existent suite




of pollutants discharged to this area is now present.

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          This biota should not be considered as

characteristic of one highly sensitive to pollutants

nor should it be considered as responsive to slight

changes in water quality.  At the present time, if

there is one quality to be attributed to the inshore

marine biota of Southern California near ocean waste
                                            •
outfalls, it is pollution tolerant and unprotected by

the legal intent of the Federal Clean Water Act.  This

biota is thus vulnerable to further degradation in

water quality which would be consistent with granting

of a waiver for secondary treatment.

          Third, any improvements in the quality of

inshore waters may require an extended time course

for demonstration against a long-term accumulation of

non-biodegradable heavy metals and chlorinated hydro-

carbons in local marine waters.

          Fourth, a determination of what a representa-

tive sample of marine biota may consist of may prove

to be difficult to define and accept.  At a minimum,

it should be very broad; and at a maximum, some of the

following may be nominated for consideration.  Some

examples follow:

          Abalone and other shellfish depend upon

benthic algae.  Will the monitoring program  assure  the

growth  and development  of benthic algae  for  the support

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                                                 162
of abalone and other shellfish in the areas affected




by the waste discharge?




          Lobster, Panulirus, depends upon the presence




of surf grass at the stage of metamorphosis from the




larvae to the juvenile.  Will the monitoring program




assure the growth and development of Phyllospadix?




Can it assure the recruitment of Panulirus?




          Some species of the crab Pugettia live as




juveniles in the algae Pelvettia.  Will the monitoring




program assure adequate populations of Pelvettia and




Pugettia?




          The Garibaldi perch requires specific species




of filamentous red algae for its nest.  Will the




monitoring program assure that these species of sea




weed will be available to this fish for its nest?




          This inquiry could be extended at the liberty




of any individual specialist in the marine environment




and it is left to your imagination to what extremes




may be involved for your consideration.




          In summary, it appears very difficult to




believe that the objectives of maintaining a balance




in populations of marine organisms can be achieved




for deep ocean discharges, at least insofar as Southern




California is concerned.




          Considering the foregoing, my conclusion is

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                                                 163
determined because the assumption that rapid initial




dilution may not be succeeded by subsequent rates of




dilution and toxic concentrations of waste may occur




along the shore, because of the problem of waste




discharges diluting upon waste discharges, and because




it is technically essentially impossible in this area




to develop adequate protection of the inshore waters




from such waste discharges.




          CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank you,  Rim.




          I have two questions.




          One,  you expressed a number of reservations




on the amount of bioassays to provide for a sufficient




monitoring of the full range of effects.  Given that




general criticism, are there any particular methodolo-




gies which you might recommend that we could consider




for inclusion in any bioassay monitoring requirement?




          MR. FAY:  The property or the quality of




secondary treatment has always impressed me because




it's a biological process.  When living organisms are




dealing with an effluent, that effluent has to be




nontoxic or the treatment process itself can't function




          Clearly, if organisms can live in that




effluent, then the discharge of that effluent, release




of it into the ocean, should be of a quality which is




consistent with maintaining marine organisms.

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          But once you waiver and get  away  from




secondary treatment, you no longer have  that  quality




o f cont rol.




          Primary treatment allows too many things  to




go under the rug, and deep-ocean discharges only




meet one esthetic criteria.




          You know, we are sort of --  If I may step




back, I would much rather not see deep-ocean  discharges




I would much rather see extended biological secondary




treatment and the discharges out in front of  us where




we can see what's going on.




          If you want to trace a sewage  field around




in the ocean, that's the toughest thing  in the world




to do remotely to follow a waste discharge.   You never




 get any idea what the time course of  dilution is,




and you have got the world's worst problem  in trying




to figure out that the biological impacts of  it are.




So --




          CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Did you evaluate the  '78




California Plan revision; and, if so,  does  it meet




what you would consider to be adequately, or  does  it




assure that, if compliance were achieved with the




California Plan, would it be adequately  treated waste?




          MR. FAY:  Unfortunately, I have not reviewed




that.  I'm sorry.

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                                                  165





          CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Paul?




          MR. De FALCO:  Rim,  in your experience  over




the last couple of decades, have you seen any signifi-




cant change in the biota along the South Coast area




in game or food fish that you would attribute to




pollution or increases in pollution?




          MR. FAY:   It's such a complex mixture that




we've had to deal with, as you are well aware, of




heavy metals, chlorinated hydrocarbons,  suffice it to




say that at the time that DDT was introduced, effective




reproduction of a great many species ceased.  And for




both algae,  invertebrates,  fishes,  birds, and even




marine mammals,  there are reproductive difficulties.




          Now that  the record is perfectly clear on




that,  millions and  millions of dollars have been spent




on studies documenting these impacts.   I regret to say




I have witnessed their occurrence.




          CHAIRMAN  JORLING:  Let me interrupt you just




for a second.




          (Off-the-record announcement,  not reported.)




          MR. De FALCO:  I have no more questions.




          CHAIRMAN  JORLING:  Thank you very much.




          MR. FAY:   Thank you.




          CHAIRMAN  JORLING:  If you do have occasion




to look at the California Plan, we would certainly

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                                                 166
appreciate your comments.




          MR.  FAY:  I do want to read it, right.




          CHAIRMAN JORLING:  For our protocol, I




interrupt the witness list here to allow City Councilman




Mr. Robert Wilkinson from the City of Los Angeles to




appear at this time.




          MR.  ROBERT M. WILKINSON:  I apologize for




being late.  I started at 6:30 this morning and only




arrived in San Francisco at 1:50.  PSA is on time today




          We had a fine view and fine stay at San Jose




for about three hours.




          I know the hour is late.  I will not try to




read verbatim the letter I have addressed to you.  You




can read it at your leisure.  But I would like to




emphasize a few things.




          As you know, early in the Fifties, the




present Hyperion plant was constructed to treat 420




million gallons per day.  Of this flow,  a hundred




million gallons was given secondary treatment.  And




in the near future, with the construction of the




Sepulveda Water Reclamation Plant upstream, an




additional forty million gallons will be treated.




          I have grave concerns about the requirement




for secondary treatment  for deep-ocean discharges.   I




feel that the requirement could be more  damaging, rathejr

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                                                 167






than beneficial.   Advanced treatment will reduce the




amount of nutrients available to the marine environment




With the urbanization of the city and the construction




of facilities to control storm runoff, considerable




amounts of nutrients have been eliminated from reaching




the ocean.




          The city has been continuously monitoring




the ocean and Santa Monica Bay since the Hyperion




plant commenced operations and can find no detrimental




reason why the present sewage treatment system should




not continue to operate without extensive changes.




          In this time of energy shortage, it is unwise




to expend large amounts of our energy resources --




about 55,000 barrels of oil per year which this would




cost -- and to provide secondary treatment for waters




that are to be discharged to the deep ocean.




          I believe it's already in testimony that you




have that our lines go out five miles at the present




time, with an additional 4,000 feet of dispersing of




the water into the ocean into a 208 feet of depth into




a canyon that disperses the water out into the gulf




stream, which goes out into the ocean itself, rather




than coming back into Santa Monica Bay.




          The city's cost to operate its present




Hyperion plant and the future sludge disposal

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                                                 168


facilities are estimated to be approximately thirty

million dollars per year.  And to add an additional

twelve to fifteen million dollars would create a

serious impact upon our residents, especially at this

time when we are facing other financial problems in

California.

          These are extensive costs of capital

exclusive of the cost of capital construction, which

may run as much as two hundred million dollars.

          In conclusion, I urge EPA to develop rules

and guidelines which will permit the City of Los

Angeles to obtain a waiver for the treatment level of

its discharges to the ocean.  And the city realizes

that that permit is valid for five years.  However,

during this period, we will continue to update and

enhance our present treatment facilities.

          We are confident that we are in compliance

with requirements for allowing — for allowing a

waiver.  We also believe that our proposal for a

degree of treatment less than full secondary is in

the best interests of all concerned because it is less
                                                     •
energy-intensive, it provides nutrients, it is less

cost-effective -- it's cost-effective, and it does

not severely impact the ocean.

          I would like to diverse from the statement

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                                                 169
to make another comment.




          As you know, the EPA requirements that we




will have a sewer charge on our residents, how that




will be in the City Council within the next 60 days.




I feel confident, as we have discussed with Mr.




De Falco, that it will be passed by the City Council.




          We are going ahead, as we have discussed




with Mr. De Falco earlier, with all the requirements




and discussions that we have had.




          I have Mr. Tillman here to try and answer




any questions possible.




          CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank you.




          Paul, do you have any questions?




          MR. De FALCO:  No, not yet.




          CHAIRMAN JORLING:  I appreciate it, and we




do have the attachment here which has specific




comments on the regulations, and we appreciate that,




and we will certainly evaluate those as we go forward




          I appreciate your coming up, and I'm sorry




also that you had the delay, but thank you.




          MR. WILKINSON:  I do apologize for being




late, but I tried to be on time.




          CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank you very much.




          MR. WILKINSON:  Thank you very much.




          CHAIRMAN JORLING:  The next witness is

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                                                 170





Gordon Gabrielson from the Seattle Metro.




          MR. GORDON K. GABRIELSON:  Gordon Gabrielson




from the Municipality of Metropolitan Seattle.




          I am cutting the statement down quite a bit,




trying to stay within the time limit.




          First, I would like to compliment the




Congress for providing flexibility on the marine




discharger question.  The law needed this.




          I also would like to thank the past and




present EPA Administrators and the EPA staff in Region




X and in headquarters for their understanding and




cooperation with Seattle over the past five years of




the date on this important issue.  We have a strong




case, but I know our persistence may have worn thin




at times.




          I would like to focus on the problem of




administrating the waivers and some of the eight




procedural items covered in the law.




          Seattle Metro suggests the following:




          First, put the burden of initial waiver




qualification determination on the state, with




emphasis on case-by-case review.  Let the state perform




the initial screening.




          Second, keep the flexibility the law allows




by restraining yourselves from selecting new numerical

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                                                 171






criteria.  Otherwise, we will get all tangled up




again,  and implementation schedules will surely lengthen




further.




          Third, accept the fact that some will




challenge you or the state concerned in court.  Let




the state be your first line of defense.




          Fourth, allow existing water quality




standards to apply which bear on waiver of BOD or




suspended solids impacts.




          For example, apply dissolved oxygen standards




for BOD;  turbidity standards or statements concerning




health  of benthic life for suspended solids.




          Fifth, rely on past water quality and eco-




system research and monitoring and maintain periodic




vigilance for continued review every five years to




determine compliance and eligibility for future




waivers.




          Sixth, interpret new or substantially




increased discharge as related to renegotiated NPDES




permit  numbers on volume or pollutant emissions on




a five-year cycle such that growth does not categori-




cally deny future waivers.




          Seven, allow pretreatment requirements to




be judged in terms of approved EPA guidelines.  Don't




force interim efforts which may be counterproductive

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                                                      172






 1   once actual  1980 pretreatment  rules  are  known.




 2              In reading  over  the  questions  posed in  the




 3   announcement on this  public  hearing,  I  note  several  of




 4   the questions asked whether  effluent  standards  should




 5   be equivalent to secondary  treatment,  particularly




 6   in terms of  toxics or water  quality  impacts.   We  sense




 7   that secondary treatment waivers  may  now be  judged




 8   in terms of  toxic emissions  rather  than  traditional




 9   secondary  treatment parameters  covered  under Federal




10   Regulation 40 CFR 133.




11              If waivers  are to  be  judged  primarily  in




12   terms of toxics, let  us deal with toxics directly.




13   Metro has  given toxics special  attention.  We are




14   very concerned about  them,  and  this  is  what  we  have




15   done and are doing:




16              First, we have monitored  industry  and  our




17   other sources and have an  areawide  perspective  on




18   specific toxic substances.   We  know  that copper  and




19   zinc, for  example, are largely  from  corrosion of




20   plumbing pipes caused by our soft water  supply.




21              We also know the  total  emission of these




22   particular metals from Metro treatment  plants and




23   other nearby municipalities  represent  less than  four




24   per cent of  the total annual input  to  central Puget




25   Sound.

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          Lead enters our sewers from street drainage,




yet our effluent represents less than one per cent of




the areawide sources.




          Other metals as well as potentially toxic




organics are found in our sewers and waterways.  We




know cadmium is largely from industry and are tightenin




up on this source with pretreatments.




          We know that PCB is prevalent in our Duwamish




Estuary sediments.  We also know this is from a




transformer spill several years ago.




          Our effluents are monitored for metals, PCB




and other exotics, and relative to most places,  these




concentrations are low.




          Second, we have monitored  our waters,  biota




and sediments.  Traditional effluent and receiving wate




monitoring has been augmented by special research




efforts directed specifically at heavy metals discharge




from our plants to determine their  impact.   These




investigations, led by Dr. William  Schell of the




Laboratory Radiation Ecology of the  University of




Washington, College of Fisheries, have determined




no significant impacts from Metro's  discharge.   His




uniquely sensitive instrumentation  and analytical




techniques allow measurement of extremely low concen-




trations and thus permit  us to effectively monitor our
I

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  waters and biota near the discharge as well as in

  control areas.

            We feel we have a good early warning system,

  What we need is a clearer understanding of what small

  variations in these extremely small concentrations

  mean .

            I have attached a copy of a recent paper

  by Dr. Schell on this work, as well as a summary  of

  Metro's entire  $1.1 million Puget Sound Research

  Program.   Detailed reports are available on the

  individual studies.

            Now that we have briefly discussed our

  source identification and water quality monitoring
j
  and research efforts relative to metals,  let us

  consider some control options.

            One you may already be thinking of is

  secondary treatment or some equivalent solids removal

  processes to provide high per cent removal of metals

  and other potential toxics associated with suspended

  solids.   In Seattle, this is an expensive option

  relative to the control achieved.
I
            First, we do not have a toxic problem as

  related to our  discharges.  We feel our data are  very

  thorough on this point.

            Second, the areawide perspective shows  we

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                                                      175




 1   are not a significant source except perhaps  at  the




 2   immediate outfall site, and here our data  is  the  most




 3   i ntens ive.




 4             Our sensitive monitoring methods do allow




 5   us to detect the emission of metals there  compared




 6   with background control.  So if chronic biological




 7   effects from our discharge are suspected,  these




 8   should develop near the outfall first.  Accordingly,




 9   we should keep watching and reporting back to you,




10   probably on a five-year cycle.  We will do this.




11             We presently have an industrial  waste pre-




12   treatment program.  What else will we do?




13             It is apparent that controls are coming




14   anyway for different reasons, not because  we  have a




15   problem, but because of other forces.  Let me be




16   specific.




17             First, pretreatment will be more rigorous,




18   particularly after 1980 when new EPA guidelines are




19   available.




20             Second, lead is coming out of gasoline.  This




21   reduces lead content from our discharge but,  more




22   important,  this gets at the large areawide sources,




23   urban drainage and atmospheric sources.




24             Third, water supply corrosion controls  being




25   considered by the City of Seattle to protect  water

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                                                      176
 1   pipes will reduce copper and zinc concentrations.




 2   We have informed the City of the implication  this  has




 3   on our effluent.




 4             Fourth, combined sewer overflow  controls




 5   are being planned which will remove  or  reduce frequency




 6   and volume of these events in more sensitive  fresh




 7   water and nearshore shellfish areas  of  Puget  Sound.




 8             We still have local water  quality problems.




 9   We need to commit our monetary  resources to solving




10   these local water quality problems.   We do not  want  to




11   expand our treatment plants unnecessarily.  This will




12   divert us from our local problem solving and  create




13   adverse impacts  at our plant sites which are  in park




14   and sensitive shoreline areas.  We want to spend funds




15   to solve real local problems.




16             Case-by-case flexibility is what we have




17   argued for.  The Congress agreed.  Let's keep the




18   waiver process workable.  Congress provided the




19   provision so some worthy cases  could secure waivers.




20   Let's not create a situation where we have to go back




21   to Congress again.




22             Thank  you.




23             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  One of  the situations




24   that arises in the Puget Sound  situation  a little




25   bit more acutely than direct outfalls into the ocean

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                                                      177





     is  the  need to make the assessment of the cumulative




     effect  of  a series  of these outfalls and the potential




     interrelationships  of them.  How would you propose




     the regulations place that  requirement on the applicant




 5             MR.  GABRIELSON:   Well, first,  the studies




 6   that  we have conducted in  Puget Sound really do take




     into  effect the cumulative  nature of all the discharges




 8   The University of Washington has data that dates back




 9   to  the  1930's.   Our monitoring data started in the




10   early 1960's,  and has become very intense with these




11   recent  studies.




12             The  best  that we  can tell, there has been




13   no  noticeable  change in the classic parameters over




14   this  time  period.   So I think it's a very good indica-




15   tion  that  we are healthy in Puget Sound, and I think




16   dissolved  oxygen, turbidity and such standards would




17   be  very good.




18             We intend to keep on with the  heavy metals




19   studies so we  can be sure we are not getting into




20   trouble there.




21             So we very much  have a cumulative effect




22   in  Puget Sound now,  as far  as our monitoring is




23   concerned.




24             CHAIRMAN  JORLING:  Don?




25             MR.  DUBOIS:   Gordon, you mentioned the

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                                                      178






 1   existing monitoring  program,  and  did I  get  the proper




 2   impression or  draw the  conclusion you  felt  the existing




 3   monitoring program you  have  now  is sufficient  for the




 4   requirements that should  be  incorporated in the waiver




 5   provisions?




 6             MR.  GABRIELSON:  Well,  the routine monitoring




 7   that we do, I  think,  would need  to be  expanded some




 8   to take in more  of the  features  that were in the




 9   interim studies  that  were just completed.  So  I think




10   we would go for  a more  intensive  monitoring program




11   than has been  our past  practice.




12             MR.  DUBOIS:   Could  you  give  me a  cost




13   estimate on what that annual  cost would be  for a full




14   monitoring program?




15             MR.  GABRIELSON:  Well,  the eleven studies




16   in the interim studies  that  we referred to, $1.1




17   million.  This was over about two and  a half years.




18   We don't have  to do  quite that much on  a sustained




19   basis.  So I would imagine about  a quarter  of  a




20   million dollars.




21             MR.  DUBOIS:   A  quarter  of a  million  dollars




22   a year or ongoing monitoring?




23             MR.  GABRIELSON:  Yes.




24             MR.  DUBOIS:   I  think that's  all I have.




25             CHAIRMAN JORLING:   Lisa?

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                                                      179
 1             MS. FRIEDMAN:   I understand  that  Seattle




 2   has adopted as part of  its state water quality  program




 3   standards based on EPA  quality  criteria for water;  is




 4   that correct?




 5             MR. GABRIELSON:  Well, we  are using  the




 6   state's standards which have been  approved  by  EPA.




 7   They have water quality standards  for  all the  water




 8   bodies in the state of  Washington.




 9             MS. FRIEDMAN:   Does Seattle  presently meet




10   those standards for toxics,  its existing discharge?




11             MR. GABRIELSON:  So far  as the Metro




12   discharges are concerned, yes.




13             Thank you.




14             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank you very much.




15             The next witness is --  I am  going to  need




16   some help from Paul on  the pronunciation of the name.




17   Paul, do you want to  introduce  the next witness?




18             MR. De FALCO:   Dr. 0. V.  Natarajan from




19   Guam.




20             DR. 0. V. NATARAJAN:  I  am Dr. 0. V.




21   Natarajan, Administrator  of  the Guam Environmental




22   Protection Agency.  I  am  here on  behalf of  the




23   territorial government  of Guam.




24             I should thank  EPA people  for giving us  an




25   opportunity to be here  to take  part  in these

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                                                      180
 1   deliberations.  The public participation  element  of




 2   the Clean Water Act is working well.   A  lot  of  times




 3   EPA has public hearings.  Sometimes  it is  hard; many




 4   times, controversial, and I think  it's one of  the




 5   elements which really works good.




 6             We would like to see the marine  discharge




 7   provision also implemented justifiably and for  the




 8   purpose for which the Congress has created this




 9   provis ion.




10             Some of you may know where Guam is,  but




11   many of you may not know where Guam  is.   Guam  is




12   very close to Hawaii, just about  3500 miles  from




13   Hawaii.  If I start to Guam now  from here, by  the




14   time I reach Guam, you can go to  Washington, come




15   back here; then you can go back  to Texas,  we are  so




15   close to the Mainland.




17             And because of the  geographical proximity,




18   we have special problems, and not  only the geography,




19   but also a lot of different things separates Guam




20   and other Marianas Islands from  the  Mainland.




21             To give you a general  description, Guam is




22   four miles wide in the middle.   That means if  you




23   can throw a stone for two miles,  you can reach the




24   ocean in both ways.




25             We  are  about  210 square miles, and our

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                                                      181







 1   shoreline  is  80  to  90  miles  of  shoreline  we have.




 2              Within  a  couple  of miles  from Guam,  there




 3   is a small valley called the Marianas  Trench.   It  is




 4   about 35,000  feet deep.  It's five  miles  deep.   That's




 5   the world's deepest ocean  in that part of the  Pacific.




 6              So  when we talk, maybe  sometimes  we  might




 7   get mixed  up  with the  previous  speaker about Puget




 8   Sound or some of  the tidal basins,  but when we  talk




 9   deep, we mean really deep.




10              Nature  has some  special problems  for  us,




11   like typhoons, one  or  two  minor ones every  year,  and




12   maybe once in ten years, we  get a real big  typhoon.




13   These are  our building  code  enforcement.  We build




14   shacks, what  you  call  shacks.   They Enforcement




15   Division's men are  not  that  efficient; but  nature  takes




16   care of us in that  way.




17              Eighty  thousand  civilians inhabit Guam.   And,




18   in addition to that, there are  40,000  people of the




19   military,  especially Navy  and a small  contingent  of




20   Air Force  people  are there.




21              The cultural  habits,  even though  it  is




22   politically an American territory,  culturally,  geo-




23   graphically,  I could say it's an  Asian territory.   The




24   habits are more  associated with the Asian community




25   rather than the  American community.  They eat  more

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                                                      182





 1   rice, tapioca, more starchy foods, rather than  fatty




 2   food, and a lot of plants.




 3             Modern conveniences, such  as  garbage  grinders




 4   we don't have those things.




 5             When we cook food, more  food, we  have more




 6   food, we give to our pigs, which  is  in  our  backyard.




 7   That's what resource recovery  is.  We don't  flush  it




 8   in the toilet or drain it by increasing the  BOD.




 9             Our basic economy is mainly military  and




10   the tourist.  And when I  say "military  industry,"  the




11   planes which  are manufactured  here or the ships which




12   are built here come over  there for their use.




13             And the tourist, Japanese  do  come  over there.




14             We  import almost 95  per  cent  of the  materials




15   we use, just  like we buy  Datsuns  and Z-Cars  just as




16   you also are  buying but,  in addition to that,  we import




17   American tomatoes and  Idaho potatoes and all those




18   things.  And  a majority of the material which  we import




19   so that it's  nothing to talk  about,  what you call




20   manufacture.  We almost a consumptive  society  rather




21   than  a productive society.




22             We  sell clean water, pure  water,  and open




23   skies.  That's  what our  products are.   And Japanese,




24   especially  Japanese honeymooners,  like  those things,




25   and  they do come over  there  to enjoy that.

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                                                      183





 1             Our  wastewater  characteristics  as  a total




 2    are mainly of  the  domestic  waste,  and  even  domestic




 3    waste  comparatively  with  a  low  BOD compared  on the




 4    average  normal  BOD,  which you  are  confronted with in




 5    the Mainland.   Because  of the  absence  of  industry and




 6    commercial, we  don't have much  toxic waste.




 7             And  we have maybe a  small thing as an




 8    advantage.  We  have  one agency,  the Guam  EPA, under




 9    which  all environmental programs are administered.




10    We have  complete control  over  what comes  into the




11    island;  what goes  out of  the island, like pesticides.




12             Through  the cooperative  enforcement agreement




13    program  with this  region  and also  with  the  head of




14    the local law,  each  pound of pesticide  which comes




15    into the island or any  chemical,  for that matter,




16    we can have a  control over  it.   We know where it  is




17    sold,  how it is used, how it is  subused.  We have




18    complete control over it.




19             That  is  the general  description about Guam.




20    And from that,  I may not  even say  what  I  am  going to




21    say, but just  for  the enforcement  purpose,  I'm going




22    to make  a few  comments.




23             We first adopted  water quality  standards in




24    1968.  It did  contain a secondary  treatment  provision.




25    But some of my  fellow islanders  would  say you have to

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                                                  184





have a treatment plant.  True, but you have  to  have




some collection pipes.  You have to have some toilets




so the treatment plant can be used.




          We found that type of problem to a certain




extent ,  and then we realized the secondary treatment




is not appropriate to our situation.  Our water quality




does not include oil water quality, and it's not  cost




effective.   Our needs are more in other areas than




improving the water quality and in reducing  the public




health problems, and our money will be best  utilized




in those areas rather than spending in this  area.




And the statute criteria, we can easily meet them.




We don't think there is any problem in that.  And we




are not here because the amendment has been  passed,




but the amendment is here because of us.




          That's how we feel.  And it should be




obvious to everyone these are the reasons why the




Pacific Islands, not only Guam, but the Marianas




Islands also, should be exempted easily from these




regulations, and just we want to -- Many of  you may




know some of these facts before; but I want  to  make




sure that nobody found these statistics.  That's  why




we are here.




          CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank you.




          Paul?

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                                                      185





 1             MR. De FALCO:  No.




 2             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  I could propose  that




 3   definition of "deep" to accommodate the problems  on




 4   the East Coast.




 5             (Announcement off the record, not  reported.)




 6             DR. NATARAJAN:  Any questions?




 7             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank you.   I have none.




 8             DR. NATARAJAN:  Thank you.




 9             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank you  very  much.




10             The next witness  is Pati Faiai  of  American




11   Samoa.




12             MR. PATI FAIAI:   My name is Pati Faiai,  and




13   I am representing the Government  of American Samoa.




14   My capacity with the Government of American  Samoa is




15   as the Governor's Special Assistant for Environmental




16   Affairs and Secretary of our local Environmental




17   Quality Commission.




18             Now,  after listening to the representative




19   from Guam, maybe I should give a  little bit  of  intro-




20   duction, you know, for  those of you who never heard




21   of American Samoa and never have  been there.




22             The geographical  location of  American  Samoa




23   is below the Equator, and  is about 2300 miles west




24   of Hawaii.




25             About  the  food  and everything,  you know, it1

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                                                      186
     almost  similar to what the representative of Guam said.




               You know,  the weather is about the same




     throughout the year,  75 degrees all year round.




 4             I would like to offer some few remarks




 5   regarding the wastewater facility that is the subject




 6   of  this hearing.




 7             We appreciate the opportunity of being able




 8   to  comment on the way in which the eight statutory




 9   criteria necessary to modify the requirements for




 10   secondary treatment  will be interpreted.  From our




 11   review, it is apparent that the eight statutory




 12   criteria have been tailored to the environment and




 13   related land use  trends of the continental United




 14   States.  As a result, the proposed criteria generally




 15   are not a proper  aid to American Samoa's environmental




 16   conditions and wastewater management priorities.




 17             This is particularly evident when one




 18   reviews our local conditions.   Our point source




 19   discharges flow into open ocean waters, which are




 20   almost  a mile deep,  two miles  offshore.  The compositiojn




 21   of  the  effluent,  0.6  mgd discharge, is 100 per cent




 22   domestic wastes.




23             We  have two tuna cannery operations which




24   generate  approximately 0.5 mgd of  effluent.   These




25   wastes  are  discharged through  a separate wastewater

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                                                      187
system which utilizes best practical methods recom-




mended by EPA.




          Our wastewater management priorities include




the elimination of point source discharges along our




shorelines where villagers swim, fish and, at times,




wash clothes; the relocation of point sources in our




harbor to more desirable offshore discharge locations,




and the efficient maintenance and operation of our




wastewater facilities.




          In light of these factors, we strongly




recommend that EPA develop special provisions in the




regulation for all Pacific Island territories.  Such




provisions would recognize our unique environmental




conditions and would enhance implementation of more




appropriate wastewater management priorities in the




Pacific Island territories.




          Thank you for your time and consideration.




          CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank you.




          I think your statement speaks for itself,




and I don't have any questions.




          Do any others have questions?




          MS. FRIEDMAN:  No.




          MR. FAIAI:  Thank you.




          CHAIRMAN JORLING:  All right.  Thank you




very much.

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                                                      188
 1             The next witness  is  Jack  Lambie,  representing


 2   the Californai Association  of  Sanitation  Districts.


 3             MR. JOHN A.  LAMBIE:   Thank  you  very  much,


 4   Mr. Jorling.


 5             It's a pleasure  for  me.   It's  going  to be  a


 6   hard act to  follow,  Guam and Samoa.   But  we had the

           •
 7   pleasure last year of  training some folks in solid


 8   waste management at  the expense of  EPA in Ventura.


 9             I'm the Chief Engineer and  General Manager


10   of the Ventura Regional County Sanitation District.


11   And it is a  composite  of nine  cities  and  sixteen


12   special districts, and we  run  seven treatment  plants,


13   and one of which has an ocean  discharge.   So it was


14   quite interesting a  while  ago  in talking  about the


15   monitoring costs that  Mr.  Harper testified, $250,000


16   for a plant  of 200 --  200  mgd.  Ours  is  125 for a plant


17   of 15 mgd.   So those costs  do  run high for small


18   agencies.


19             I'm here to  make  a presentation on behalf  of


20   our President, Ralph Volin, also and the  Regional


21   District Board has endorsed these two papers which I


22   am presenting.


23             The California  Association of Sanitation


24   Agencies represents  many  special districts in Californi


25   with  responsibilities  for  wastewater treatement and

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                                                      189
disposal, and in some cases dual responsibility for




wastewater treatment and water supply.  Many of these




agencies are located along the coast and should




logically be considered for a waiver of the secondary




treatment requirement.  Wherever the depth, ocean




currents and environmental factors are propitious,




it is certainly in the interest of the country and




of the affected communities to provide effective, but




less costly, treatment systems that incorporate deep-




ocean outfall diffusers.




          Over the past several years, the State of




California State Water Resources Control Board has




conducted numerous public hearings and workshops




leading to the development of a reasonable rationale




for water quality parameters based primarily on chronic




and acute toxicity data.  The approach incorporated  in




Table B of the State Ocean Plan is designed to protect




marine biota through the assurance that toxic pollutant




do not approach toxic concentration in the marine




environment.




          The State Ocean Plan also calls for monitorin




programs to verify that satisfactory conditions are




maintained outside the immediate area of the discharge




          It is recommended that the EPA accept the




State Ocean Plan as a suitable substitute for the BOD,

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                                                      190






 1   suspended solids and pH parameters,  apparently




 2   considered relevant by law.   Acceptance  of  the  State




 3   Ocean Plan for California  and adoption of plans  based




 4   on similar rationale for other coastal states with




 5   ocean conditions should satisfy  the  first four




 6   criteria of the Clean Water  Act  of 1977  and the  intent




 7   of the law.




 8             As a procedural  matter,  it  is  recommended




 9   that written comments for  this meeting be extended




10   until March the 1st.  February the 24th  is  a little




11   time frame for the rest of our agencies.




12             It is also recommended that, in spite  of  the




13   relatively short time period during  which agencies




14   may apply for a waiver, that EPA publish preliminary




15   rules and regulations and  receive  comments  prior to




16   the adoption of the final  regulations.




17             Your consideration of  these comments  in the




18   preparation of the regulations implementing this




19   section of the law is requested  by Ralph Bolin,  the




20   Mayor of Napa and the President  of the agency.




21             We had an opportunity  to call  together our




22   Attorneys Committee on the special districts,  and they




23   met on the 17th and represented a wide spectrum of  the




24   large and small agencies of  California.   And we asked




25   them these questions that  were asked of  you in

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                                                 191






attendance to this meeting.  And  I will brief the




questions because you have repeated them so many times,




and they were based on the eight  criteria.




          The first section of 301(h)(l) requires




applicable water quality standards specific to the




pollutant (BOD, suspended solids  and pH) for which




the modification is requested.




          CASA feels that implementation of this




portion of the Act should look toward the particular




state, such as the State of California, adopting




appropriate requirements.  In the event that the




State of California needs to promulgate additional




requirements,  then it should be accomplished at an




early date.




          In the event that enabling legislation is




necessary in the State of California,  then the




Attorneys Committee would recommend that CASA support




the accomplishment of this,  including,  if necessary,




amendments to  the existing Ocean Plan of the State of




California to  permit effluent discharge that has not




been provided  with a secondary treatment as provided




for in Section 301(h) of the Act.  Since a state ocean




plan is required, it is urged that a single set of




standards should be made applicable if reasonably




possible.

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                                                      192
          Two.   Should the evaluation of water quality




in the second criteria consider only the impact of a




discharge if a modification of the secondary treatment




requirement is approved, or should the evaluation




compare the impact of the discharge if a modification




is approved to the impact which would have resulted




from secondary treatment?




          It is believed that the evaluation of water




quality based upon the second criteria of Section 301(h




should be evaluated in the light of accomplishing the




overall objectives desired to be accomplished by the




Federal Water Pollution Control Act.  In some instances




such as exist particularly on the West Coast, this




will permit effluent discharges that have not received




secondary treatment and still accomplish the overall




goals contemplated by the requirements of the Federal




Water Pollution Control Act as amended.




          It is urged that the impact on the receiving




waters as specified in Subsection (h)(2) are of




primary importance and the method of accomplishment




purely subsidiary.




          Question three.  In the second criteria --




And this one, you have heard much about, about the




balanced indigenous population be defined.




          Balanced indigenous population should be

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                                                      193





 1   determined based  not  upon  what  might  have  existed




 2   since  the beginning of  man,  but  for some  reasonable




 3   prior  period of time, taking into  consideration  some




 4   reasonable change, but  not  necessarily  a  detrimental




 5   change,  in the indigenous  population  that  would  exist




 6   in such  marine waters.




 7            Any  impact  should be  exclusive  of language




 8   which  would permit such to  be determined  on the  basis




 9   of any minor and  nonsubstantial  alleged change  in




10   what is  determined to be a  balanced indigenous  popu-




11   lation.  An area  greater than the  immediate vicinity




12   of the discharge  itself should  not be considered --




13   should be considered.   Pardon me.




14            Question four.   Should the  law  be interpreted




15   to require that the concentration  of  toxic pollutants




16   (heavy metals, chlorinated  hydrocarbons,  etc.)  in the




17   discharge granted a modification be no  greater  than




18   the concentration which would occur with secondary




19   treatment?




20            Answer.   We believe that an affirmative




21   response is required  as to  this  item.   Presumably,




22   effluent discharges not requiring  secondary treatment




23   should be permitted where  the sewage  being received




24   by the treatment  plant  is  basically domestic sewage




25   and exclusive  of  the  type  of pollutants described in

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                                                      194
Question  four.  Either  discharge  of  such  pollutants




into  the  local sewers do  not  exist or  have  been  taken




care  of by pretreatment.




          Should either of  these  not be  true,  then  a




proper level  of treatment to  delete  such  pollutants




prior to  ocean discharge  should be accomplished.




However,  the  determination  relative  to concentration




of toxic  pollutants  should  be  tied specifically  to  the




accepted  Ocean Plan  of  the  State  of  California or




other applicable plan rather  than to the  more  ambiguous




criteria  of secondary treatment.




          Question five.  Should  compliance with the




fifth criteria (Section 301(h)(5)) require  a publicly




owned treatment works to  have  an  enforceable pretreat-




ment  program  at the  time  of the application?




          It  is our  belief  that publicly  owned treat-



ment  works which are to be  permitted to  have effluent




discharge by  means of a deep-ocean outfall  and not




require secondary treatment should have  an  enforceable




pretreatment  program in existence at the  time  of the




approval  of the application as opposed to the  time  of




the application under the section.   Applicants must




have the opportunity to evolve acceptable pretreatment




programs if,  in fact, the EPA should determine that the




one filed with application is not enforceable.

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                                                     195






 1             Question six.  Should the law be interpreted



 2   to require publicly owned treatment works which treat




 3   only domestic wastes to be evaluated differently than




 4   publicly owned treatment works which treat large




 5   amounts of industrial wastes?




 6             Answer six.  Yes, a subcategory should be




 7   established for publicly owned treatment works which




 8   treat only domestic wastes.  These applications should




 9   be handled in an expeditious basis with a minimum of




10   documentation and substantiation.  Possibly  a procedure




11   whereby such shall be deemed granted if no action is




12   taken within a specified period of time would minimize




13   paper work and expense in processing such a  application




14             Although not listed in the notice  of the




15   public meeting as specific items for comment, the




16   CASA Attorneys Committee feels that clarification is




17   also advisable as to Section 301(h)(3).  It  should be




18   assured that the practicality of the monitoring




19   system must be evaluated based on  its  cost effectivenes




20   as to any particular applicant.




21             Additionally, the establishment of such a




22   system of monitoring should be allowed prior to the




23   approval under Section 402 as opposed  to a system




24   presented with the application.




25             Section 301(h)(7) should be  clearly

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 1   interpreted to provide that the permit  defining  the




 2   volume of discharge limitation be  that  set  forth  in




 3   the NPDES permit rather than  in the  402 permit.   This




 4   would provide for the consistency  which is  absolutely




 5   necessary in the interpretation of the  statute and  its




 6   operation.




 7             And, finally, Section 301(h)(8)  raises  a




 8   question as to the interpretation  of  the  term  "effluent




 9   reduction."  The Attorneys Committee  believes  that  the




10   interpretation which must be  placed  on  this  item is




11   the extent to which reclamation can  be  accomplished




12   as a means of reducing the amount  of  effluent  being




13   discharged.  Such an interpretation  would  further




14   reinforce the policies which  have  been  established  by




15   the State of California and the Environmental  Protec-




16   tion Agency in connection with the use  of  Clean  Water




17   Grant funds.




18             In conclusion, this is  a program which should




19   be delegated by the EPA to the individual  state.




20   Presumably, no further action by  Congress  would  be




21   necessary in order to allow this  program  to be




22   delegated to the State of California.




23             In the absence of such  an  interpretation,




24   the Attorneys Committee would urge support of  proposed




25   legislation to the extent deemed  necessary by  EPA to

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1   enable the State of California to take over the




2   implementation of the program as to discharges within




3   the State of California.  An expression of the willing-




4   ness of the EPA to make such delegation would presumabl




5   permit introduction of such legislation within the




6   current session which, if inclusive of an urgency




7   clause making such legislation effective upon




8   enactment, would allow early implementation of the




9   procedure in instances in the State of California




10   where it appears that such be deemed  to be justifiable




11   and appropriate.




12             I certainly thank you  for the opportunity




13   on behalf of CASA and the Regional Sanitation District




14   of Ventura.  I commend you on the establishment  of




15   this three-day program.  I was here yesterday, all




16   day today, and I plan to be here tomorrow.  And  this




17   type of input and attitude that  you have had, and




18   especially the cross-examination and  patience with




19   your witnesses,  is to be commended.




20             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank you.




21             Paul,  do you  have any  questions?




22             MR. De FALCO:  No.




23             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Don?




24             MR. DUBOIS:   No.




25             CHAIRMAN JORLING: Lisa?

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                                                      198







 1             MS. FRIEDMAN:  No.




 2             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank you  very  much.




 3             I think we will take about  a  seven-  or




 4   eight-minute break here and resume promptly  upon  the




 5   conclusion of that.  We still have fourteen  witnesses




 6   to go.




 7             (Short recess.)




 8             MR. De FALCO:  Can we  reconvene, please?




 9             Tom has had to step away to make a phone




10   call.  He's asked me to reconvene and start  the




11   session going.




12             Our next witness would be Nachsa Siren  from




13   the Trust Territory Environmental Protection Board.




14             MR. NACHSA SIREN:  My  name is  Nachsa  Siren,




15   and I am representing the Trust  Territory Environmental




16   Protection Board.




17             My colleague  from Guam mentioned how remote




18   Guam  was.  Well, I tell you, I was going  to  use  an




19   interpreter, but apparently Dick Cotton chickened out,




20   so I  have to try to speak English.




21             I have to give you a little history  of  what




22   the Trust Territory is.




23             It's  located  about over 6,000 miles  west  of




24   San Francisco,  maybe a  little more than that,  and




25   about 3500 miles west of Hawaii. The size  of  the

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                                                       199





  1   area is about the size of the continental United




  2   States.  Very big, isn't it?  Except that only 700




  3   square miles of it is land.  So we have got very,




  4   very deep water.  It's like Guam.




  5             I think it was a little exaggerated, but



  6   we do have deep water around our islands.




  7             We have a very small population.  It's  only




  8   about 70,000.  I'm excluding the Northern Marianas,




  9   which is now Commonwealth of the United States.




 10             We do not have industry to speak of.  If




 11   you can call tourism industry, you know, it may be a




 12   wet industry.  I don't know.  Or dry industry, maybe.




 13             We have copra,  and most of the people work




 14   for Uncle Sam.   Therefore, my only request is that




 15   we should be considered just like the other islands,




 16   like Guam and American Samoa, under a special group



 17   or under the 301(h) in allowing us to waive the




 18   requirements of secondary treatment.




 19             I'm not saying that it will be totally




 20   waived in all cases because we do have lagoons.   And




 21   in those cases, we will have to have secondary




 22   treatment.   But other than that, we would like to be




 23   allowed to  apply for  a waiver.




24            Our main problem  is  not  industrial  —




25   industrial waste, as I said earlier, but health-

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                                                      200





 1   related.  In other words, we have  all  our  problems




 2   out there are intestinal parasites.  We  have  90  per




 3   cent of our school children who have all kinds  of




 4   intestinal parasites.  So our problem  is really  to




 5   build sewer lines and house connections.




 6             In conclusion, that's my  remark.




 7             Thank you.




 8             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank  you very much.




 9             Our next witness is Gerry Maier,  representing




10   the Commonwealth of  the Northern Mariana Islands.




11             MR. GERRY  MAIER:  My name is Gerry  Maier.




12   I am the Environmental Planner for  the Commonwealth




13   of the  Northern Mariana Islands.   And  it is a privilege




14   to be here representing this group  of  islands.




15             The new government which  represents the




16   first elected Governor of these islands  in over  300




17   years of colonial rule, has asked  me to  represent




18   the government here.  This government  is approximately




19   and a half old.




20             And our physical location, we  are neighbors




21   with Guam on the same island chain. The  main  island.




22   Saipan, is about 200 miles north of Guam.   Very  similar




23   environmental situations.




24             The Marianas Trench is there.   I would like




25   to add, however, that with the population  of

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                                                     201







 1   approximately 15,000 people spread over 14 islands,




 2   six of which are inhabited -- Three of those have




 3   populations of 50 people — that when we want to go




 4   shopping or see something of a highly, a better




 5   technological development we go to Guam.




 6             The major island, Saipan, is 46 square miles.




 7             Now, we have talked about these problems,




 8   and what we are dealing with, we have two sewer




 9   treatment plants in the Northern Marianas, both of




10   them on Saipan, both of them primary, both of them




11   built in 1973 as the first public sewer treatment




12   plants for the islands.  At the present time, we




13   have about eight per cent of the houses hooked up to




14   these plants.  And we figure at this point, we are




15   looking at, in five years we will have 20 per cent




16   hooked up.




17             We are currently on water hours for the




18   last five years.  This time of year we have gone on




19   water hours.  Every night when the water is turned




20   off, the leaky pipes we have for our water distribution




21   system allow everything in the world to come  in, and




22   we have a rash of intestinal problems at hospital.




23             I use this as an example to point out where




24   our priorities lie.  We have a long way to go.




25             We have no industry whatsoever.  There are

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 1   no toxic wastes.




 2             We are also looking at the fact that  two  of




 3   the islands with populations covering  around  a  thousand




 4   people have no sewer treatment facilities whatsoever.




 5   We are trying to figure out how we are going  to get




 6   these people hooked up.




 7             Our plants are running at  very minimal




 8   capacity, and we can build a sewer,  you know,  a




 9   secondary treatment plant, but we aren't going  to




10   have anything coming into it.  We simply do not have




11   money to put that in.  We have more  vital health




12   problems to deal with.




13             I also have a little thing with Guam.  In




14   most of  the Trust Territory, the equatorial current




15   runs through there.  Our nearest down  current neighbor




16   is a group of islands called the Philippines, 1500




17   miles away.  And considering what our  neighbors in  that




18   area of  the ocean have already said,  in  our  situation,




19   we would like to ask for separate requirements and




20   criteria to judge whether we are eligible  for waivers




21   under this amendment.




22             Thank you.




23             CHAIRMAN  JORLING:  Thank  you.




24             You mentioned water  hours.  That's  a conserva




25   tion measure because of the  unavailability  of  fresh

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                                                      203
 1   water?




 2             MR. MAIER:  Right.




 3             CHAIRMAN JORLING:   Right.




 4             MR. MAIER:  It's pretty  hard  to  flush  when




 5   you don't have it.




 6             CHAIRMAN JORLING:   The next witness is --




 7   And excuse me if  I mispronounce the  name  -- James




 8   Kumagai, representing the State of Hawaii  Department




 9   of Health.




10             MR. JAMES S.  KUMAGAI:  Mr.  Jorling, members




11   of the  panel:




12             I'm James Kumagai,  Deputy  Director for




13   Environmental Health, Department of  Health, State of




14   Hawaii.




15             I  am joined in my  remarks  by  three of  the




16   four counties in  the state.   The fourth county was




17   not able to  be here.




18             Hawaii  supports the 301(h)  provision.   We




19   ask that the guidelines be developed to allow us to




20   implement the water quality  management  strategy




21   according to our  priorities.   If secondary treatment




22   were to be implemented  on all of our systems, we see




23   that it will cost somewhere  around $95  million.   And,




24   in return, we see very  little in water  quality enhance-




25   ment.

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1             Hawaii is an island state in the subtropical




2   zone,  the result of volcanic origins, with coastal




3   waters of high clarity and the coastal zone extending




4   to 420 feet.   Ocean currents oscillate or reverse in




5   the wrong field of direction with the tides, and there




6   is a net offshore transport over time in the areas




7   of outfall discharges.




8             About 80 per cent of the state's population




9   resides on the Island of Oahu, and the remainder in




10   three counties.  So we have the situation of having




11   what we call a large municipality and three small




12   municipalities.  And this becomes quite  critically




13   important in responding to the procedural or the red




14   tape aspects of implementation of guidelines.




15             Our  coastal waters  are subjected to  high




16   runoff discharges.  The extreme case  is  the  Island  of




17   Kauai where storm  runoff  is on the order of  2,000 mgd,




18   compared  to point  discharges  of less  than  1  mgd.




19             So we have  varying  requirements  for  water




20   quality management within  the state.




21             We  can  expect that  the  regional  ecosystem




22   in  that  particular case would be  dependent  on  runoff




23   from  the  nonpoint  source  of  discharge,  rather  than




24   point  source,  and this becomes quite critical, in  our




25   opinion,  in  evaluating the restrictions  to our water

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 1   qualtiy standards on the matter of secondary  treatment




 2   wai vers.




 3             We have at the moment several  large  dis-




 4   chargers on the Island of Oahu, and  I will  describe




 5   them very briefly.




 6             First, the San Armond treatment plant  is




 7   designed for 82 mgd.  It is  designed to  discharge




 8   primary or advanced primary  effluent at  200 feet  and




 9   extending three miles offshore --  I'm sorry -- two



10   miles offshore.  The earlier discharge was  at  30  feet,




11   and enough studies, as well  as casual observation,




12   indicated that  that was totally inadequate  and,




13   therefore, the  outfall was extended  to the  greater




14   depth.




15             Second is the Honouliuli wastewater treatment




16   plant.  It's being  designed  for 25 mgd.   We hope  we




17   can discharge primary effluent in  the open  ocean




18   regime  at a depth of 200 feet.




19             Now,  in this particular  case,  what we have




20   here is a collection of several discharges  going into




21   Pearl Harbor, and combining  those  discharges to a new




22   outfall.  So we feel that  the definition of, quote,




23   existing discharges would  be quite critical and will




24   impact  this kind of situation.




25             The third is Kaneohe sewage treatment plant.

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 1   We have two treatment plants at the present time:  one,




 2   7 mgd;  the other,  4.3 mgd,  discharging into Kaneohe




 3   Bay,  and Kaawa Bay respectively.  We feel that, even




 4   with  secondary treatment,  both discharges should not




 5   be discharged into the embankment and should be




 6   diverted to the deep ocean regime.




 7             For this reason,  the Mokapu outfall  is under




 8   construction to divert the effluent to the deep ocean




 9   regime.




10             And, here again,  we have a situation,




11   according to our water quality management strategy,




12   to divert all bayshore discharges out into the ocean.




13   And in this particualr case, we felt also that the




14   definition of existing discharges is quite critical.




15             Another  potential discharge is what we  call




16   the Waini sewage treatment plant.  At the present  time,




17   it's discharging less than two mgd of primary  effluent




18   through an outfall about 3,000  feet offshore at  32




19   feet.  Here we feel that before secondary treatment




20   is implemented, we should be extending the outfall  into




21   deeper waters.




22             Essentially, we need  the time  and  also  the




23   flexibility to implement this  kind of plan.




24             On  the neighboring  islands, there  is the




25   potential of  the Hilo plant outfall  discharging  close

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 1   to one mile offshore at depths of 56 feet.  The  dis-




 2   charge is about 3 mgd or so.




 3             The final one we think potentially would  be




 4   effected is Kapaa on the Island of Kauai.  Here  the




 5   outfall is not to be a new outfall and,  again, divertin




 6   small discharges from the inshore regime  hopefully  out




 7   into deeper waters beyond the reef that  fringes  that




 8   commun ity.




 9             So that is the situation that  we have,  and




10   we would like to have the opportunity  at  least to




11   bypass as a matter of priority the implementation of




12   secondary treatment and concentrate  instead on some of




13   the actions that we feel are high priority in our




14   total environmental quality program.




15             That concludes my testimony.




16             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank you.




17             Don?




18             MR. DUBOIS:  Yes.  I would like to  ask:




19   If I understand correctly, your approach is to provide




20   primary treatment but with extended  outfalls  into the




21   deep oceans as opposed to secondary  treatment with  more




22   mere shore discharges?




23             MR. KUMAGAI:  Yes.




24             MR. DUBOIS:  Is this done  for economic




25   reasons -- Is it  cheaper to do it  that way?   --  or for

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                                                     208



 1   environmental reasons or whatever?


 2             MR. KUMAGAI:   Well, primarily for environ-


 3   mental reasons.   We feel, because even with secondary


 4   treatment, there are measurable effects, especially


 5   in the Kaneohe Bay situation.  Its secondary treated


 6   effluent can meet the dilution requirement and so on,
                                                •

 7   but it's in confined bodies of water, and there  is


 8   evidence of bioassimilation, toxicity, and there are


 9   other effects that are attributable  to the discharge.


10             So even if it were secondary treatment,


11   we feel that it should be diverted outside what  we


12   call the biological active  zone.


13             And, of course, the economics are such that


14   it will be cheaper to divert discharges.  It's more


15   cost effective to do it that way  in  our opinion  than
   i

16   to go to more and more treatment, even tertiary  treat-


17   ment in that particular case.


18             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  This was a submitted


19   question, and perhaps more  appropriately  directed  at


20   some of the  earlier island  situations.


21             But some coral populations do exist  in


22   Hawaii.  The effect of outfalls  on existing  coral


23   populations, has Hawaii  done anything to  monitor that


24   impact?


25             MR. KUMAGAI:   Yes.  Hawaii did  study the

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f  impact  of  sewage  effluent  on  coral  reef,  one bioassay




  in  the  laboratory.   This was  in  early  1972  or so.




            According  to  the  bioassays,  sewage effluent




  is  toxic to  coral planula  as  the larvae  form; but  in




  the  field, there  are two discharges  discharging raw




  sewage.  In  the field,  coral  is  growing  prolifically.




  It's  there.  Whereas from  the laboratory  results,  we




  concluded  that on the coral,  sewage  effluent is toxic;




  but  in  the field, there it  was.




            So our  conclusion was, No.  1,  there was




  something  else affecting the  results  or,  No. 2, it's




  a matter of  lighter  dilution  because  in  the Kaneohe




  Bay  situation with the  coral  planting  work  that the




  university did, it did  show that there was  some kind




  of  inhabition so, you know, that was  part of the con-




  clusion .




            So we said that  --  okay.   To be on the safe




  side,  leave  these discharges  out of  the  question,




  whether it's primary, raw,  tertiary  treatment.  We felt




  that,  to be  sure, it was more cost  effective to get




  outside.   So that is really one  of  the conclusions.




            CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank  you very much.




            The next witness is Alan  Friedland, City and




  County  of  San Francisco.




            MR. ALAN FRIEDLAND:  Mr.  Jorling, members  of

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                                                     210
 1   the committee:




 2             I'm Alan Friedland, Chief of the Bureau of




 3   Sanitary Engineering for the City and County of San




 4   Francisco.




 5             Let me first apologize for the interruption




 6   of the emergency note.  I'm sorry if this was disturbin




 7   to your committee.




 8             As a preamble to my statement, it's important




 9   that I inform you of the status of a couple of our




10   projects because one of the main issues that we are




11   raising here is the time of implementation.  We have




12   already advertised for bids for a secondary treatment




13   plant that will handle about 80 per cent of the city's




14   dry weather flow.




15             We also are under a Step 2 design for the




16   ocean outfall, also dry weather and wet weather,  and




17   we are in the Step 1 portion of our work for the  west




18   side, the other 20 per cent of the city, which has  a




19   bearing on this hearing as  far as the ocean waiver.




20             So I felt it was  of interest  to  you to  have




21   the background so, as I go  through the  statement,




22   particularly the  last point  regarding the  time imple-




23   mentation, you can see that  essentially we are  on  a




24   treadmill going on progress  and we are  --  the points




25   of decision  are vital.

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                                                      211






 1             In  the  interest  of  brevity,  this  statement




 2  will be limited to emphasizing  those points  regarding




 3  the eight  criteria that we feel  are of major  importance




 4  or of particular  significance to the City and  County




 5  of San Francisco.




 6             We  support the concern of EPA  and  Congress




 7  that any waivers  to the secondary  treatment  definition




 8  not weaken the objectives  of  the national water  quality




 9  program and that  equity exists  for  all dischargers




10  nationally.




11             However, we recognize  and commend  the




12  Congressional intent to allow less  than  secondary




13  treatment  for those discharges  that produce  an effluent




14  that will  not adversely affect  the  marine environment.




15  A waiver in such  a case is a  prudent decision, allowing




15  the cost savings  to be applied  in  a more cost-effective




17  manner to  other water quality needs.




18             We  look to the State  of  California's Ocean




19  Plan as justifiable procedure and  standard  for




20  determining appropriate water quality  criteria for




21  ocean discharge.  The recently  adopted Ocean Plan  --




22  I should say  adopted by the State  Board  and  not  by




23  EPA -- establishes water quality standards  for those




24  parameters that are meaningful  tool in the  protection




25  o-f those organisms indigenous to the marine

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environment.



          In  addition, the State of California has




established a blue ribbon advisory committee in the




form of the Marine Estuarine Technical Committee,




which consists of specialists in the marine and aquatic




fields and other selected disciplines.




          As  an aside, this committee that worked with




us was on the monitoring for both the predesign and




predischarge,  but it was the type of committee that




easily could  be extended for the determination of




indigenous ordinances.




          A committee such as this guarantees a




reasonable and prudent approach to defining the means




and standards for protecting the marine environment.




          It  would appear to us that any state able




to demonstrate to EPA the existence of such a compre-




hensive ocean plan should be delegated the authority




to administer the waiver provisions or EPA should




consider accepting such an approved plan as a basis




for administering this program for that state.  I




believe this  responds to Statutory Criterias No.  1, 2




and 3 .




          Relative to Statutory Criteria 4, 5, 6 and 8,




we endorse the concepts made by Mr. Walker this morning




— There is no use of repeating them — particularly

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                                                     213
 1   his comments on the toxicants as it relates to




 2   Question No. 4 in the statement.




 3             Now, with regard to Criteria 7, referring




 4   only to new or increased discharges, it  is our under-




 5   standing that this does not apply to the changed




 6   outfall locations for existing  levels of discharge.




 7   If our interpretation is correct, we find it  acceptable




 8   but we join others in suggesting that the flow




 9   identified  in the permit be used.




10             This is of particular concern  to us because,




11   at present, San Francisco discharges its primary




12   effluent from the ocean side of the city to near-shore




13   waters at the northwesterly corner  of the city,  right




14   at the entrance of the Golden Gate.  Our new  outfall




15   system is under design which will move that discharge




16   point to a  location approximately 22,000 feet offshore




17   into waters providing a minimum initial  dilution  of




18   a  hundred to  one.




19             If  granted a waiver,  this outfall system




20   could carry a blend of primary  or chemically  assisted




21   primary effluent  from the westerly  portion  of the city




22   mixed with  four  times the volume  of secondary effluent




23   from the remaining portion  of  the  city.   In  our




24   opinion, this combination of  80 per cent secondary




25   effluent and  20  per  cent  primary  effluent  discharged

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 1   four miles from shore should, subject to the environ-




 2   mental review process, definitely be considered  a




 3   discharge suitable for waiver consideration.




 4             As a matter of interest, we,  at the  contem-




 5   plated outfall -- And this addresses one of  the




 6   questions regarding the definition of a deep-ocean




 7   outfall.  But our outfall is designed to go  to an  80-




 8   foot depth.  If we were to go --  If we  were  to just




 9   double that distance of four miles to eight, to  eight




10   miles, we would only gain 20 feet in outfall depth,




11   and that would be at a cost of  fifty million dollars.




12             So this point I'm making regarding the




13   definition of depth is, in many  instances,  a very




14   expensive determination.




15             We have one major concern regarding  the




16   waiver process.  Most dischargers bordering  both the




17   Atlantic and Pacific seaboards  are deeply  involved in




18   the planning and design of various treatment and




19   outfall systems.  Few enjoy the  unique  position  of




20   San Francisco with an opportunity to  discharge its




21   effluent to either the ocean or the bay waters.




22              In any case, it is absolutely imperative




23   that  the planning, design and  construction  of  these




24   facilities be allowed to proceed in  the most expeditioujs




25   manner.  Only in this fashion  can we  avoid the valuable

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    loss of time and the cost increase related to escalatin




    costs of construction.   We, therefore, request that




    the waiver procedures,  consistent with the established




    criteria, be defined as soon as possible and be acted




    upon within a realistic time period.




              As general information, San Francisco is




    fortunate that our oceanogr'aphic and marine biological




 8   studies have been underway for many years.  Coupled




 9   with previous and ongoing pilot plant studies, we




10   have accumulated data that we feel support the con-




11   sideration of a waiver for the definition  of secondary




12   treatment as it would be blended with our  secondary




13   treatment from the 80 per cent of the city.




14             Nevertheless, if compliance with such a




15   procedure entails the commencement of additional




16   extensive and long-term supportive studies as  a con-




17   dition  of acceptance, a Catch-22 situation is  generated




18   with respect to compliance with  existing  federal  and




19   state  time schedules, coupled with  the  effects  of




20   cost escalation.




21             We are very anxious to work with EPA,  the




22   state,  our  fellow grantees,  in making  the  provisions




23   of  PL  95-217 a working reality.




24              I  thank you very much  and  would  be  willing




25   to  answer  some questions.

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                                                     216





I             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank you.




2             I have no questions.  Don?




3             MR. DUBOIS:  No.




4             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Paul?




5             MR. De FALCO:  No.




6             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Lisa?




7             MS. FRIEDMAN:  No.




8             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank you very  much.




9             MR. FRIEDLAND:  Thank you very much.




10             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  The next witness  is  the




11   representative of the  Sanitation Districts  of  Los




12   Angeles County, Frank  Dryden.




13             Excuse me.   James  McGrath.   James  McGrath




14   is next,  from the California Coastal  Commission.




15             MR. JAMES  McGRATH:   There  are  three  copies




16   of my statement.




17             CHAIRMAN JORLING:   Thank  you.




18             MR. McGRATH:   I  will make  a few  minor oral




19   additions to  that written  statement.




20             Members of the panel :




21             My  name's  James  McGrath.   I am with  the




22   California  Coastal Commission here  in San  Francisco,




23   the  State Commission offices.




24              Time  has not allowed for  Commission  review,




25   so  the  following  is  staff-level testimony on

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 1   implementation of Section 301(h) of the Federal Water




 2   Pollution Control Act as amended.  These comments are




 3   made in our advisory role as a land use planning




 4   agency responsible for planning within the coastal




 5   zone.  Responsibility for regulating water quality




 6   rests with the State Water Resources Control Board.




 7             A literal reading of the language of the




 8   Section 301(h) amendment reveals a commendable overall




 9   policy of allowing money which might be used for




10   upgrading marine discharges to secondary treatment




11   to be used instead for upstream reclamation and best




12   practicable treatment (The requirements of 201(b) and




13   201(g)(2)(A)) if such a program would have overall




14   environmental benefits.  Thus, the language appears




15   to require that money be used for either reclamation




16   or best practicable treatment.




17             The language also sets standards to  insure




18   that no serious adverse effects occur as a result of




19   the policy by requiring that water quality standards




20   be met and by requiring a level of water quality




21   which assures, quote, the protection and propagation




22   of a balanced, indigenous population of shellfish,




23   fish and wildlife.




24             The present task  for EPA appears to  be




25   establishing a regulatory framework which  insures

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 1   this level of protection and the use of the  funds  for




 2   reclamation.




 3             We would recommend that the  first  element of




 4   the implementing regulatory framework  be  a process




 5   which makes factual findings to demonstrate  consistency




 6   with all of the criteria of Section 301(h).  These




 7   factual findings would necessarily be  supported by




 8   supplementary information sufficient to support the




 9   necessary findings of fact.




10             The second element of a regulatory framework




11   which we would recommend is a policy establishing that




12   any applicant seeking a waiver must carry the  burden




13   of proof.  Thus, in the case of incomplete or  contra-




14   dictory information, the waiver would  not be issued.




15             Third, and perhaps most importantly, we




16   recommend that all of the criteria in  —  and all  the




17   criteria terms -- Excuse me.  There is a  typo  --  for




18   implementing the Act be specifically and  precisely




19   defined.  Since this is perhaps the most  important




20   item in establishing the mechanisms for implementing




21   this section of the Act, we will deal  with each of




22   the terms which we consider to be so critical.




23             First, discharge  into deep waters  or




24   estuarine waters where there  is strong tidal movement.




25             The language within this subsection  indicates

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                                                      219






 1   only the discharge waters be defined  in  a manner  to




 2   insure compliance with Section  101(a)(2) of  the Act.




 3   Namely, protection and propagation  of  fish  and shell-




 4   fish.




 5             We would recommend that deep waters be




 6   defined with a minimum value and with  greater values




 7   to be determined, giving consideration to the volume




 8   of the discharge, the currents  and  overall  circulation




 9   at the discharge point, and the sensitivity  of the




10   marine environment in the vicinity  of  the discharge.




11             Thus, the  large discharge of the  County




12   Sanitation Districts of Los Angeles,  in  fairly close




13   proximity to the rich benthic habitat  of Palos Verdes




14   Peninsula, would require a substantially different




15   perception of  deep waters than  would  the discharge of




16   a small community in a sandy bottom locale.




17             The  second critical term, a system for




18   monitoring the impact of such discharge  to  the extent




19   practicable.




20             The  present lack of monitoring data is  an




21   important factor in  being unable  to precisely define




22   the  exact nature of  current  impacts on marine dis-




23   charges.  For  reference, the EPA  Draft EIS  on the




24   San  Diego Metropolitan Facilities  Plan concludes  on




25   Page 349 that  the data on the  impacts of the discharge

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 1   on marine life are limited due, in part, to the nature




 2   of the monitoring programs.




 3             On Page 107, the EIS notes that the control




 4   stations in the San Diego monitoring program, although




 5   selected for their distance from the discharge, were




 6   also affected by the outfall.




 7             The EPA EIS for the Orange County Sanitation




 8   Districts also notes this problem of trying to establis




 9   a true control station which has not been affected by




10   the existing discharges, on Page G-82, Table G-20.




11             The San Diego EIS includes a fairly lengthy




12   criticism of current monitoring efforts, particularly




13   the use of the diversity index alone to  draw conclusion




14   about the health or lack of health of the marine




15   environment.  The EIS points out the problems of




16   different sampling techniques, the problem  of identi-




17   fying accurately the  large number of taxes  and the




18   inability of the diversity index to detect  such




19   substantial effects as  changes in the patterns of




20   abundance and scarce  species.




21             Care must be  given to defining the term




22   "to the extent practicable."   What  factors  affect  this




23   term  "practicable"?   Cost?  Size of discharge?




24             We would recommend that a major  effort  be




25   given to establishing monitoring  requirements  capable

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  of  demonstrating  the  nature  of  effects.   The term


  "practicable"  should  not  be  used to  constrain the
i

  necessary  monitoring  efforts because many of the


  effects  of wastewater discharge are  sublethal,  such


  as  impaired  reproduction  and shortened life expectancy.


            We would  also  recommend that a major effort


  be  made  to involve  the leading  academic researchers


  in  chronic toxicity effects  in  establishing the


  required monitoring programs.


            Third,  applicable  pretreatment requirements


  will  be  enforced.


            The  effectiveness  of  any pretreatment program


  depends  upon the  enforcement and monitoring efforts


  made  by  those  in  charge  of the  program.  The level of


  effort  and fiscal  support given to industrial waste


  monitoring varies  dramatically  among the large dis-


  charges  in California, with  the expected result of


  varying  effectiveness.


            More troubling is  the use of the term


  "applicable  pretreatment  requirements."  Current policy


  is  to require  pretreatment only from major contributing


  industries,  those contributing 50,000 gallons or more


  per average  work  day.


            To digress  a moment,  the City of San Diego


  testified  this morning that  they have no major

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Industries.   Well,  in fact, they have 8.5 mgd of




industrial discharges.  However, under this category




of major contributing industries, they do, in fact,




only have one that  meets this criteria.




          These standards were established when




secondary treatment was a mandatory requirement, and




if continued, would allow the untreated discharge  of




the vast bulk of heavy metals and chlorinated hydro-




carbons, the pollutants of most  concern to the marine




environment.




          It is recommended that applicable pretreatmen




requirements be redefined if waivers of the secondary




treatment requirement are contemplated, in an attempt




to achieve removals of heavy metals and chlorinated




hydrocarbons equal to or superior to that obtainable




with secondary treatment.




          Fourth, new or substantially  increased




discharges of the pollutant.




          If the classic secondary  treatment  require-




ment of BODg and suspended  solids are  waived,  it  is




our recommendation that  "pollutant" here  be  defined




as the  materials of  concern  to  the  marine environment.




Namely, heavy metals  and chlorinated hydrocarbons  and




other persistent synthetic  chemicals.




          Fifth, the  protection and propagation  of a

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                                                     223







 1   balanced,  indigenous population of shellfish, fish and




 2   wildlife.




 3             This section is at the heart of insuring




 4   that any waivers pursuant to Section 301(h) do not




 5   harm the environment.  This requirement is properly




 6   differentiated from the requirement to meet water




 7   quality standards because the discharge of persistent




 8   pollutants can and has damaged fish and wildlife due




 9   to bioaccumulation even while meeting the water quality




10   standards because of great dilution.




11             It is out recommendation that this  section




12   be defined in as literal a manner as possible and  that




13   good health in the fish, shellfish and wildlife be




14   required as well.  If this section is literally




15   interpreted, secondary treatment would, in all




16   likelihood, not be a waivable requirement because  of




17   the current level of damage to fish, shellfish  and




18   wildlife.




19             The EPA EIS for  the Los Angeles County




20   discharge points out on Page  1-72 order-of-magnitude




21   enrichment of chlorinated  hydrocarbons  in waters  and




22   food species  for pelagic birds.




23             The EIS also notes  decreased  benthic




24   diversity and acknowledges  that  improvements in




25   treatment have  reduced the  areal  extent  of  sulfide

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sediments and increased benthic diversity (Page 1-61).




          The EIR for the City of San Diego's waste-




water project points out on Page 4-57 that it cannot




be concluded that consumption of Bifht-caught fish




is completely safe,  close quotes.
          The Orange County EIS points out that




mercury levels in halibut in the monitoring area




average 0.2 parts per million, nearly the FDA limit
of 0.50.
          The Orange EIS also notes (Page  11-73) the
phenomenon of premature pupping among sea lions,




believed to be induced by chlorinated hydrocarbons or




microorganisms, both related to waste discharges.




          The EPA EIS for the City of Los Angeles




points out the extensive occurrence of fish  and




shellfish diseases, including fin erosion disease,




lip papilloma in fish and brown spot disease  in  crabs,




all related to waste discharges.




          On Page S-4 of the city's EIS, it  is pointed




out that the species diversity of benthic organisms




has decreased, and the mean number of species  and  the




median number of fish caught per troll is lower.




Indeed, the landing of commercial fish and  shellfish




is presently only one-third of the peak  level  which




occurred in the early 1950's (Page GS-93).

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                                                     225
          The EIS also notes the conclusion of the




report of the University Task Force to evaluate water




quality effects at Hyperion sludge discharge that,




quote, we do not recommend eating fish caught in the




vicinity of the Hyperion outfall because of the




accumulation of halogenated hydrocarbons, close quote.




          In summary, we support the principle of




Section 301(h), namely using wastewater grant funds




for reclamation, recognizing that Section 301(h)




contains within it assurances that the health of the




marine environment will be protected.  With the




current industrial components of the larger wastewater




discharges, the only method to protect the marine




environment is to reduce the discharges of heavy




metals and chlorinated hydrocarbons, not necessarily




the concentrations, but the actual discharge in terms




of mass emissions.




          We urge that the treatment methods selected




insure that the total discharge of mass emissions of




toxic pollutants (heavy metals, chlorinated hydrocar-




bons, and so forth) be no greater than that which




would be discharged from a properly designed secondary




treatment plant.  It is immaterial to the marine




environment whether this is done through secondary




treatment, upstream reclamation, industrial

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                                                      226







 1   pretreatment or physical-chemical treatment  methods.




 2             Thank you for the opportunity  to make  these




 3   comments.




 4             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank you.




 5             One question I have.  This  is  a  tip-of-the-




 6   iceberg question, and I don't want to get  to the




 7   iceberg, but the concurrence by a state, is  it




 8   sufficient that EPA, the Administrator,  get  concurrence




 9   from the Water Quality Board to protect  your interest




10   in this, or does that have to be the  Governor,  or




11   should it be all state agents?




12             What I am asking you is do  you have now any




13   binding role in the process?




14             MR. McGRATH:  No.  I tried  to  make it  clear




15   at the beginning that our role is strictly  advisory.




16   We do have some influence in our land use  role.   We




17   formerly had substantial water quality responsibility;




18   but currently all water quality responsibilities,




19   regulatory responsibilities, rest with the  State Water




20   Resources Board.  Our input  is generally through that.




21             I think a mechanism to solicit that -- in




22   trying to solicit the state  report might be  -- or a




23   state viewpoint might be what you  are looking for.




24             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Paul?




25             MR. De FALCO:  Jim, would  the public

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                                                     227






    hearing process help get a list of these views from




    agencies,  such as State Fish and Game and yourself?




              MR. McGRATH:  Yes.  The state hearing




    process,  possibly the state clearing house process.




    There are  a number of mechanisms within the state




    which I think do involve the entire spectrum of




    resources  agencies.




 8             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Don?




 9             MR. DUBOIS:  We have had several speakers




10   say that  the State of California Ocean Plan, if it's




    followed,  would protect the marine environment




12   adequately and so on.  From your standpoint, is that




13   the way you feel also?




14             MR. McGRATH:  Well, this is another ticklish




15   question.   We commented on the Ocean Plan and supported




16   the Ocean  Plan.  One of the understandings in our




    support for it was that there was a larger set of




18   requirements and that the -- which would be very




19   stringently applied.  The water quality, the Ocean




20   Plan, I think is extremely well -- well done in terms




2i   of its ambient water quality standards.  They -- I




22   think the  methodology was, you know, quite superior.




23             There is a problem, though, and I think  that




24   deals with the issue of ambient standards and what




25   happens to fish in water.

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                                                     228
1             The other problem is one of discharge with




2   the suspended solids portion,  which settles -- It's




3   not involved in the ambient water column, but does,




4   indeed,  have effects.




5             And I think the problem there is one of




6   persistent materials.   We don't know what the threshold




7   effect is.  We don't know what kinds of levels can be




8   tolerated.  And I think the best kind of advice is to




9   get as many of them -- We know that there are major




10   identifiable effects out there, and I think the policy




11   consideration is to get the major portion of those




12   out, whether it's done through secondary treatment,




13   pretreatment or whatever method.




14             MR. DUBOIS:  So can  I conclude that you




15   wouldn't  feel comfortable or  rely totally on the




16   California Ocean Plan now; that you would like a




17   more careful examination than  would be  provided there?




18             MR. McGRATH:  Well,  that's -- I'm  trying




19   to  phrase this  fairly delicately.




20             I would not say that we  feel  --  I'm  com-




21   fortable  with  the Ocean Plan.  What  I  would  say  is the




22   Ocean Plan,  I  think,  is probably  the technically  best




23   possible  effort  for ambient water  standards.   However,




24   I  think there  are other  items of  concern,  and  it  was




25   our understanding  in  the  adoption  process  of the  Ocean

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                                                       229






 1   Plan  that  these would be given consideration through




 2   — by  EPA  in  this manner.




 3              MR.  DUBOIS:  Thank you.




 4              CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Any  other questions?




 5              MR.  De FALCO:  No.




 6              CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank  you.




 7              MR.  McGRATH:  Thank you again.




 8              (Continued on following page.)




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                                                     230





              CHAIRMAN JORLING:  We have nine remaining




    witnesses, and there is a problem that's been




    expressed with at least one concerning a flight




    schedule.  Let me try something out here.




 5             I think we can complete this by 6:00




 6   o'clock  if we can stick to our time schedule of  seven




    to ten minutes.  But of the remaining witnesses, are




 8   there any that have really acute travel problems




 9   besides  Dr. Bascom?  Are there any others?




10             Are you the next witness?




11             MR. GERALD DUNN:  I am the last one.




12             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  There are two witnesses,




13   or two sets of witnesses, scheduled from Alaska.




14   Are all  of them --




15             MR. DUNN:  One is a representative of




16   Anchorage and one is from the City of Petersburg.




17             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  The Anchorage group is



13   the one  that has the problem.




19             All right.  They were scheduled  to be  last.




20             Frank Dryden?  Have you got time?




21             MR. FRANK DRYDEN:  I'm going to  be here




22   whether  anyone else is or  not,  I guess.




23             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank you.




24             Let's readjust the order,  then,  and  take




25   Dr. Bascom,  followed by  the Anchorage group  that has

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                                                      231





 1   to leave.  Then we will  go back  and  pick  up.




 2             We have an unaffiliated  citizen that  has




 3   come  in  quite a while  ago and,  in  our  rotational




 4   series,  would be entitled to  speak.  We will  pick her




 5   up after the  two travel problems  and  then resume




 6   with  the list.




 7             MR. WILLARD  BASCOM:   Thank you  very much




 8   for the   consideration,  and my  apologies  to this




 9   gentleman that  I accidently cut  in front  of.




10             I will be brief.




11             My name is Willard  Bascom.  I have  been an




12   oceanographer for somewhat over  30 years, very  much




13   interested in the ecology of  the California coast-




14   line.




15             I am  at the  moment  Director  of  the  Southern




15   California Coastal Water Research  Project.




17             I am  also a  professor at the University of




18   California in San Diego  at  the  Scripps Institute  of




19   Oceanography.




20             I have come  here  today to talk  briefly




21   about two particular matters  which our group has




22   been  studying intensively  for a long time now.   In




23   the main, we study  all the  effects of  man on the




24   waters off of Southern California; but we have had




25   particular interest  in those  effects caused by the

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                                                      232




     discharge of municipal  sewage.




 2            One of  the  problems  alluded  to  in  some




 3   detail  by your  last witness  has  to  do  with  the ques-




 4   tion  of how  does  one  make  any  sense out of  the huge




 5   number  of animals,  roughly 3500  or  4,000  kinds of




 5   animals, many kinds of  toxicants,  a lot of  different




 7   conditions  in the ocean and  the  problems  caused by




 8   things  happening  over a period of  years.




 9            I  think that  in  the  last  few months, we




     have  made a  breakthrough.   We  are  in the  process  of




11   having  our  views  reviewed  by scientific  sources to




12   make  sure we are  really correct.   But  let me tell you




13   for rough approximation what we  know so  far because




     I  think it  will be very helpful  to  you.




15             I  am  referring to  your Items 2  and 3, one




     of  which says  -- raises the question  of  what is a




17   balanced indigenous population of  sea  life,  and the




     other has  to do with  a simplified  method  of sampling.




19             In the  last six months,  or a bit more,  we




2Q   have been  trying  to -- we have been asking ourselves




     these  question.   What we have wanted  for a long time




22   was to be  able  to assign values to different loca-




23   tions so that it  at least put them in  some kind of




24   an order so one can tell the relative  importance of




25   one area relative to another one with respect to

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                                                      233





     whether it's very clean or very polluted or whatever.




               We have made a survey along the entire




     coast of Southern California,  extending from Point




 4   Conception to the Mexican border,  and at every ten




 5   kilometers,  we took  samples,  and all of these, plus




 6   some other ones,  were done at  the depth of water of




     the outfalls, which is roughly 60 meters or 190 feet,




 8   give or take a few meters either way.




 9             These samples have all been quite thoroughly




10   analyzed for chemicals and for biological materials.




11   And having assessed them, we feel that we can say




12   now which are the clean areas  of Southern California




13   and assign a number to it.




14             The number is obtained as follows, and we




15   have called it the Faunal Index.  The Faunal Index




16   comes from the work of one of  our scientists, Jack




17   Word, who has separated the tiny creatures of the




18   bottom, of which there are literally thousands of




19   species.  He has selected 25 of these which are




20   easily identifiable by nearly  any biologist with




21   minimal training.  And if those are identified and




22   counted, those numbers can then be put into quite a




23   simple formula and a number falls out, a number being




24   between zero and one hundred.




25             And in this particular document I have

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                                                     234





 1   given you, you will notice that, near the end of it,




 2   there is a diagram showing the  locations of the




 3   stations and the relative values of the samples




 4   along there.  And you will see  that, for much of the




 5   coast west of Santa Monica Bay, the numbers all run




 6   between 80 and a hundred.  And  for a very large area




 7   along the coast near Camp Pendleton, generally  they




 8   also run on that same value.




 9             Adjacent to the outfalls, you will  see an




10   immediate response in which  the levels have dropped.




11   You will see it also for what  it was roughly  20




12   years ago and what it is today.




13             This method now has  the  great advantage




14   in that the work of nearly  any  biologist  can  be




15   acceptable.  It no longer makes any difference  what




16   kind of equipment you use to take  the  sample.   No




17   replicates  are needed.   One  sample on  a one-shot




18   basis will  give you a number,  and  it will  be  fairly




19   close,  and  you will be  able  to say this has  this




20   number  on this pollution scale.




21             I would recommend it to  you  as  a simple




22   kind of a solution  for  identifying a  balanced




23   indigenous  population,  which simply says  that,  if  the




24   number  is over -- Our  choice of a  number  was  80.




25   You  pick  your  own.   If  it's over  some  number  like that

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                                                      235





 1   you will say that does, indeed, represent a balanced



 2   indigenous population, because the way the animals




 3   have been selected that are in that group, some of




 4   these are extremely sensitive indicators of any kind




 5   of pollution at  all, and their presence in the




 6   area is a very good indication that the area's in




 7   good condition.




 8             At the other end of the spectrum, at the




 9   lower end -- There is a list of the animals in this




10   document here.  Those are animals which seem  to love




11   it around outfalls, and they kind of count against




12   the number.  And so when you get in an outfall area,




13   why the -- we have made this so it kind of exaggerates




14   the effects of outfalls just so they can't be




15   detected.




16             Now, one possible way for you to resolve




    your Questions of 2 and 3 is to indicate that  this




13   kind of number can be assigned a single sample, which




19   means that, instead of having an expensive program




20   of monitoring, you can literally go out with  any




    kind of a sampler and pick a few samples altogether,




22   have a trained biologist assess them who doesn't




23   need  to know all the 4,000 critters,  and assign  a




24   number of it in a matter of a few hours instead of




25   a few weeks.  And having assigned that number, then

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                                                     236






 1   you can say pretty much right off whether  or  not



 2   the area is being affected by outfalls or  not.




 3             And I had in my published  remarks there




 4   other kinds of comments in them, but  I won't  go  into




 5   those  now.  But I'll stand on  this.




 6             If I can answer questions,  I will be glad




 7   to  try .




 8             I have a few more copias  in the  back of




 9   the room for anyone else who  is  interested in this.




10             MR. DUBOIS:  Dr. Bascom --




11             MR. BASCOM:  Pardon me.   I'm not doctor.  I'm




12   professor, but I'm not doctor.




13             MR. DUBOIS:  Would  your Faunal  Index work




14   out modifications in  other locations  like, say,




15   Puget Sound or --




16             MR. BASCOM:  Yes, I believe that it would.




17             I refer to  these species  in a  rough way,




18   but they are actually taxa, which means  it's  some




19   kind of a level of organism,  whether a different




20   species actually within  the taxa, but if  that taxa




21   is  appropriately represented, we believe  it will




22   work anywhere else in the world.




23             We are in the  process of  checking  it  out



24   to  see  if that's true.




25             MR. DUBOIS: Has  it been  checked out  in

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                                                      237





 1    the  cold water  areas?




 2              MR. BASCOM:   We  are  in  the  process  of




 3    doing  that  now.   As  far as we  know,  it  will work,  but




 4    we want  to  do some more research  to  see.




 5              CHAIRMAN JORLING:   In  that  same vein, any




 6    Faunal  Index  is going  to require  identification down




 7    to the  species  level,  and  I  know  in  some  of the




 8    earlier  reports from the project,  the identification




 9    of that  problem with  earlier data and the qualifica-




10    tion that  that  puts  on earlier data  does  jeopardize




11    the  use  of it.




12              What  overcomes that  same limitation with




13    respect  to the  system now?




14              MR. BASCOM:   Well, there are many indices




15    around which  allegedly do the  same thing.  And the




16    way  most of them works is that they  somehow balance




17    the  number of species  against  a number of individuals.




18              So  when you are in an outfall area, the




19    number of   species  drops and the number of individuals




20    comes  up,  and you still come out with the same answer




21    you  had before.  There are very minor differences




22    between them.




23              We  deliberately invented this scheme to




24    amplify the differences so one could see.




25              The problem of identifying species,  as you

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                                                     238






 1   perhaps know, we have a very active taxonomy program




 2   running for several years now because of that




 3   difficulty.  Now, we think we don't need to do  that




 4   any longer because the taxa that have been selected




 5   are easily identifiable by everyone.




 6             That's not necessarily at the species




 7   level.  Sometimes.it's at the family or order to




 8   genera, depending on which animal.




 9             We believe that that's now taken care of.




10             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  In reading some of the




11   reports from the project, there are a couple of




12   statements.  One is  that  the chromium levels of the




13   national  diet are showed  -- on a national basis




14   show  deficiencies; therefore,  the problem of the




15   chrome uptake in the Bight area are not severe.




16              Is that conclusion really supportable?




17              MR. BASCOM:  Well, first of all, that




18   statement about  the  national diet  level comes  from a




19   publication  by  the National Academy of  Sciences.




20   It's  irrelevant  to the second  remark, although  they




21   are both  true.




22              That  was --  simply occurred  in,  I  think,




23   one of Dave  Young's  papers.




24              The chromium situation,  for  example,  is



25   as  follows:

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                                                      239





 1             Hexavalent chromium in a non-marine




 2   environment, fresh water environment, is, indeed, a




 3   dangerous toxicant.  It's an oxidizing agent.




 4             However, when that material  is, in fact,




 5   discharged into a number of locations, it does




 6   become involved in the sewage systems.  It goes




 7   through a treatment plant.  When it does that, it




 8   comes out as trivalent chromium.  In very extensive




 9   experiments that we have run, we have never been




 10   able to find any  level of toxicity whatsoever




 11   associated with trivalent chromium.




 12             Upon discharge into the ocean, it becomes




 13   an hydroxide precipitate, and we have had animals




 14   living in it for six months without any signs of




 15   change at all.  It's not toxic.  It's hard to get




 16   the hexavalent chromium into the ocean.




 17             On the other hand, on the chance that




 18   some could get in, we have run detailed experience




 19   in seawater with hexavalent chromium and determined




 20   what I think is absolutely correct, is that the




 21   threshold limitation for the — for the breeding,




 22   the reproduction of a very delicate worm, is  30  parts




 23   per billion of chromium.  The state law at the




24   moment,  I believe, is five parts per billion.  And




25    that's  immediately diluted by a factor of a hundred,

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                                                     240






 1   so  it means that you are nowheres near the -- any-




 2   thing like the toxic limit.  You could raise the




 3   limit by a couple of orders of magnitude and not




 4   get into a problem.




 5             So there is no damage by chromium in the




 6   marine animals.




 7             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  You are  confident, then




 8   — Apparently, then, you know enough  empirically about




 9   what happens on the discharge to the  ocean or  in the




10   uptake in marine organisms  that no chromium is




11   transformed from the trivalent to the hexavalent




12   state?




13             MR.  BASCOM:  Whether that could happen?




14             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Yes.




15             MR.  BASCOM:  We  investigated the question




16   of whether chlorination  could be an adequate oxidizing




17   agent to change it back  again. We tried several




18   other hypotheses and couldn't think of any other




19   mechanism.




20             I think  our work  is not entirely empirical.




21   A  goal of it  is theoretically supportable  in other




22   scientific work.




23             CHAIRMAN JORLING:   But you  do  have  in  your




24   report that 75 percent of  the chromium  in  the  ocean




25   is  in hexavalent  form.

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                                                     241





 1             MR. BASCOM:  That's right.  The level in




 2   the ocean is about two-tenths of a part per billion,




 3   and roughly of that two-tenths of a part per billion,




 4   roughly 70 percent of that is in the hexavalentvform,




 5   that's correct.




 6             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  One of the issues  that's




 7   of concern is the fact that suspended solids carry




 8   a large amount of the toxicant material.




 9             MR. BASCOM:  Yes, sir.




10             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Your report has the




11   statement that suspended  levels have decreased  from




12   288,000 metric tons  in  '71 to 286,000 metric tons  in




13    '76.  That's not  a very significant decrease.




14             How comfortable can we be that relaxtion




15   of the suspended  solids is going to afford  us  the




15   ability to control the  discharge of toxicants?




17             MR. BASCOM:   I  didn't suggest  that you




18   should relax that.   Those are high  numbers.  And  if




19   you  -- Further  in this  statement --  I will  be  glad




20   to talk about  it  a bit  more  --  it  does  say  what our




2i   suggestion  is  for the  discharge of  suspended  solids.




22             First  of all, as long  as  solids  are




23   suspended,  they  probably  do  not  cause  a problem.




24    They almost  certainly  will drift  off  and deposit.




25    If they were  to  settle,  they would deposit  in  very,

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                                                     242
very thin levels far out at sea and are not involved




in  the coast ecosystem or at any high enough




concentration to cause any problem.




          We were following along with the assumption




that there were going to be substantial changes in




the treatment operations and that, you know, for




example, the LA County is installing now,  I under-




stood, 200 million gallons a day of secondary treat-




ment.  This is going to greatly cut down on some




of the suspended solids.




          Now, when it cuts down on it, it doesn't




cut down only on it.  If you have  a distribution




curve of size, one is really concerned with settling




velocity.  In any case, if you remove the  larger




particles by, for example, removing the upper side




of that  curve, now you have shifted the curve to  a




much different situation.




          And our suggestion in this piece of paper




which  I  have just handed  to you is that you should




make regulations that relate to the settling velocity




And  the  number that our group  has  selected after




considerable thought  is that the  settling  velocities




should  range about  .01  centimeters per  second,  which




is  roughly equivalent to  saying  that  nothing can




land --  nothing  —  not  very much  can  land  on  the

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                                                      243


 1   bottom within the first three days.

 2             Now, the point of  this  is  that  there  is a

 3   great deal of change when these materials  enter  in

 4   the  sea.  They are broken up and  they  flocculate

 5   and they join together and they are  eaten  and  change,

 6   and change in various ways.
                                                    •
 7             We  think that would be  a perfectly  safe

 8   reason to do  that if there are  set criteria to

 9   follow.

10             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Paul,  do  you want to

11   ask any  questions?

12             MR. DE  FALCO:  Yes.

13             Willard, on the Faunal  Index, it appears

14   that over the 20-year period there has been

15   additional depression.  Am  I correct in my interpreta-

16   tion?

17             MR. BASCOM:   I think  the numbers speak

13   for themselves.   That's certainly correct some places,


19   yes-

20             MR- DE  FALCO:   If  one were to adopt this

2i   as  a mechanism  for  speaking  to  the criteria of a

22   balanced indigenous  population, would you suggest


23   that waivers  be  granted to  Los  Angeles City and

24   County  or Orange  County on  the  basis of this Faunal

25    Index?

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                                                      244





 1             MR. BASCOM:   I wasn't  speaking  on  the




 2   question of waivers or  sewers  at  all.   I'm an




 3   oceanographer.




 4             MR. DE FALCO:  I'm asking you to interpret




 5   this for me,  if you will.




 6             MR. BASCOM:   It's ray understanding that




 7   these plants  are making changes  anyway  and that,




 8   you know, I think some  changes clearly  are needed




 9   and should be made.




10             And then you  must give  them  a bit  of  time




11   for something to happen in  the ocean to respond  to




12   that.  But my suggestion is that  you do now  have




13   some clear basis for  what's going on in the  ocean to




14   make up  your  minds.




15             As  I  understood  it,  that was  your  problem,




15   that the difficulty  had been  you had measurements




17   that  went on in a plant,  and  what you would like




lg   to  have  is you  wanted some  measurements that went




19   on  in the ocean so you have some basis for deciding




20   whether  it's  good  or bad.




2i             And it seems to  me  that how  you treat it




22   is  not  relevant to me.   I'm only  interested in




23   what  comes  out  of  it.  I'm only  interested in the




24   results.




25             MR. DE FALCO:  Could you interpret the

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                                                      245





 1   graph for me?  Is that depression significant?




 2             MR. BASCOM:  Some of  these  shown  on here




 3   are very significant.




 4             MR. DE FALCO:  Yes.




 5             MR. BASCOM:  What I have  suggested, you




 6   will see there is a  smaller line, and this  is all




 7   described in the text which I was trying  to save  time




 8   on --




 9             MR. DE FALCO:  Right.




10             MR. BASCOM:  The  lower  line  says "Backgrounc




11   in urban areas."




12             MR. DE FALCO:  Right.   I  understand.




13             MR. BASCOM:  My  guess is  that in  the  areas




14   near major  cities and  San  Diego and Los Angeles,




15   you have got enough  material  in the atmosphere,  lead




16   from automobiles and river runoff and all that  other




17   kind of stuff, you  can probably never get back  up




18   to where you were.   I  think that's  a hopeless




19   objective.




20             So my  thought  was perhaps there was  a back-




21   ground  allowance made  for  that  to happen.




22             You  understand this is a very sensitive




23   indicator,  this  curve.




24             MR.  DE FALCO:   Right.




25             MR.  BASCOM:   And, second, around some  of

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                                                      246





 1   the major outfalls, the deposits there  are  the




 2   result of things that were done 20 years  ago  perhaps,




 3   or  something.  I think you -- the possibility  of




 4   reaching perfection is just out of the  question.   I




 5   think you just -- If you had  zero treatment starting




 6   tomorrow, I mean zero discharge starting  tomorrow,




 7   you are not going to get back there  for a while.




 8             The  fact is that that difference  is in




 9   the bottom, and nobody knows  what to do about it.




10   So you have to be a little bit realistic.




11             And  my further suggestion  was in  some




12   peculiar small areas around the outfall,  you  make




13   some  kind of  an exception.  You say  just  because  it




14   was screwed up by your grandfather,  we  got  to let




15   you have another ten points to account  for  that,




16   or some such  thing as that.




17             I'm not stuck  with  these  numbers.  I am




18   simply offering you a mechanism by  which  to operate.




19             MR.  DE FALCO:  But  these  are  roughly ten-




20   kilometer intervals between your  samples?




21             MR.  BASCOM:  Right.  There are  a  lot more




22   stations  that we have.   These were  taken  so we could




23   determine what,in  fact,  was  a control area, one of




24   the questions that was  never  satisfactorily answered




25    in my mind.

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                                                     247
          Now, I think we can say, based on this kind




of work and a great deal more than you see here,




what is a control.  You will also see on the page




after that graph, there is a set of numbers there --




          MR. DE FALCO:  Right.




          MR. BASCOM:  -- which says these are what




we measured at the specific 29 control stations,




and they show what the minimum, the maximum and the




average was.




          And you will see that, under natural




conditions, which we believe to be virtually untouched




by man, there is a very wide range of conditions.




There is no one  number that's the right  answer.   It's




a pretty big  spread, sometimes a  factor  of ten.




          MR. DE FALCO:  You say  there can be  some




condition in  terms of  the immediate discharge  due




to the past sin, so  to speak.  What would be a




reasonable  distance  away  from  that in terms of a
base?
          MR. BASCOM:  My  suggestion  was  that  you
take -- pick out  the  area  that's  the  worst  at  the




moment and  you  draw a little  ring around  it that's




so many square  kilometers,  and  you say  in this area




we will allow you --




          MR. DE  FALCO:  What I am saying is what's

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                                                      248






     the  area  of  that  ring?




 2              MR.  BASCOM:   How  big  a  ring  it  might  be?




 3              MR.  DE  FALCO:   Yes, a recommendation.




 4              MR.  BASCOM:   As influenced by  the  coastal




 5    currents,  which are  virtually always parallel  to




     the  coast,  this is  not  a  ring or  a  square.   It's




     more likely  an oblong  that  might  be a  kilometer wide




     or  four kilometers  long,  something  like  that.




 9              MR.  DE  FALCO:   On that  order?




10              MR.  BASCOM:   On that  order.  That's  what




     I had in  mind.




12              CHAIRMAN  JORLING:  The  staff may,  at  my




13    direction,  direct some  specific questions at the




14    calculation  of the  Faunal Index.  But  there  is  one




15    issue that  I  might  want  to  address.  If  I am correct




16    in  saying that you  are  advocating utilization  of




17    the  Faunal  Index  for making the judgment  as  to




18    whether or  not the  population is  a  balanced  indigenous




19    population  for purposes  of  the  statute,  in  the




20    formulation  here, it appears that there  is  heavy




21    weight placed  upon  the  measurement  of  the presence




22    of  Group  4  species,  which are those which are




23    associated  with outfalls.




24              MR.  BASCOM:   Yes.




25              CHAIRMAN  JORLING:  Pollution species

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                                                      249




 1             MR.  BASCOM:   Yes.




 2             CHAIRMAN JORLING:   How do you argue that




 3   such heavy weighting of the  presence of pollution




 4   species  gives  us  an idea of  the balanced indigenous




 5   population?




 g             MR.  BASCOM:   Oh,  but that's the point of




 7   it all.   You see,  those are  the -- those animals




 8   would be very  rarely found in the clean areas, and




 9   so we have weighted them heavily against the outfall.




10   In fact, there is a multiplying factor of three that




     goes with them if you look at the formula.




12 |            The  idea is to get that number to come out




     to zero  so the best answer you can get comes out to




     be  a hundred percent.  That's what you are trying




15   to get at.




               So that, in fact,  weights against it and




     so forth, and that's the advantage of ecology, so



     to speak.




19             CHAIRMAN JORLING:   Lisa, do you have any



2o   questions?




               MS.  FRIEDMAN:  No.




22             CHAIRMAN JORLING:   Thank you very much.




23   And I am sure we will be back  in touch with you.




24             MR-  BASCOM:   I will  leave a  few more copies



25   at the back.

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                                                     250





 1             May  I  also  offer  the  services  of  our




 2    laboratory  and scientists  for whatever assistance they




 3    can be  to EPA  and  anyone  else that's interested in




 4    these matters.




 5             CHAIRMAN JORLING:   Thank you very much.




 6             Now, we  shift  to  the  -- I hope I am correct




 7    in  this --  the Anchorage  situation, Mr.  Chapman and




 8    Mr. Dunn.   Is  that Mr.  Dunn?




 9             MR.  JOHN CHAPMAN:   Mr.  Dunn is the one with




10    the transportation problem.   I  have got  no hurry.




11             MR.  GERALD  N.  DUNN:   My name is Jerry Dunn.




12    I  am  employed  by the  Alaska District, Army Corps of




13    Engineers,  and I am working on  a 201 facility plan




14    as  part of  the Metropolitan Anchorage Sewage Treatment




15    Plant which discharges into Knik Arm and Turnagain




16    Arm at  the  mouth of the Cook Inlet.  It was constructec




17    during  the  years 1976-1977, and completed in




18    September of 1977.




19             The  results of the study revealed the  follow-




20    ing data relative to  this body  of water into which




21    the Municipality of Anchorage discharged its primary




22    treated wastes.




23              The  mean tidal stage for the Anchorage  area




24    is  about 26 feet.




25              Current velocities induced by these  tidal

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                                                      251





 1   stages  is  breached  at  eight  knots.




 2             The  studies  also  confirmed that  the




 3   estuary, as  a  result of  such several tidal actions,




 4   is  a  completely  mixed  basin  of  the  natural suspended




 5   solids.




 6             Dilution  is  on the order  of about 1200




 7   milligrams per liter.




 8             Due  to glacial material being carried into




 9   this  body  of water  from  the  major rivers that




10   connect into it, the biological survey portion of




11   this  study reveals  the environment  is extremely




12   hostile to any biota and that any is  basically



13   non-existent.




14             Within the  inner  tidal zone, this area




15   was essentially  devoid of shellfish.  Now, in the




16   area  surrounding the outfall at Anchorage, only two




17   small non-commercial clams  were found.




18             The  point of this discussion is that the




19   State of Alaska  has established a blanket water




20   quality standard for  all estuaries.  The Knik Arm,




21   the Turnagain  Arm and  Cook  Inlet are not in any




22   sense of the matter in danger and hence these water




23   quality standards are  not entirely applicable.




24             The  study modeled the estuary, both




25   hydrologically and  in  terms  of  water quality, through

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                                                      252





 1   the use of a computer.  This was  done  to  ascertain




 2   both near field and  far field  effects  and various




 3   degrees of treatment of waste  water  near  Anchorage.




 4   The results were  that  any  degree  of  treatment  greater




 5   than primary would provide only negligible effects




 6   and those benefits would be  very  questionable.




 7             The  estuary  model  was expressed mathemati-




 8   cally  to determine the assimilative  capacity  of the




 9   estuary for primary  effluent.   The  result  was  a




10   flow of 250 million  gallons  a  day before  the  first




11   violation  of  existing water quality standards  would




12   appear.




13             The  standards for the propagation of  shell-




14   fish are a non-existent entity in any  commercial




15   species.




16   .          The  flow of  250  million gallons a day




17   represents about  a  .17 million population.  The




18   saturation population  for  Anchorage presumably is




19   500,000.




20             The  cost of  secondary treatment for




21   Anchorage would range  between  $32 and $91 million,




22   depending on  the  treatment process  used.




23             The  burden of cost could  not be justified




24   by  the environmental benefit derived.




25             The  points of the law which I would like to

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                                                      253





 1   address are that Criteria No.  1  that  there  is  an




 2   applicable water standard specific  to  the pollutant




 3   for which the modification  is  requested,  the  State




 4   of Alaska is currently  revising  the water quality




 5   standards, but  the  revisions will not  be completed




 6   in time to accommodate  the  time  frame  of the




 7   modification of permit  request.  Hence,  the recommenda-




 8   tions  of the study  which  I  have  referenced  should



 9   be used.




10             As indicated  earlier,  the environment  of




11   the estuary is  too  hostile  to  provide  a  habitat  for




12   resident populations  of aquatic  biota.   Hence,  its




13   protection is questionable.




14             Monitoring  requirements of  a representative




15   sample of aquatic biota may be impossible  to  do  due




16   to the lack thereof.




17             In Point  No.  4, such modified  requirements




18   do not result in  any  additional  requirement on any




19   other  point or  nonpoint source discharge.   The




20   computer model  of  the estuary  which was  calibrated




21   with  the existing  conditions can give us -- And  I




22   am referring to the Municipality of Anchorage  and




23   also  the State  of  Alaska — a  good  indication of what




24   would  occur at  a  point  source  discharge within the




25   estuary of Knik Arm,  the Estuary of Turnagain and

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                                                     254





 1    the Cook  Inlet.




 2             Point  5,  the  Municipality  of  Anchorage  has




 3    no qualms about  this.   This  has  been taken  care  of




 4    in  our tariff system.




 5             Point  6,  pretreatment  requirements,  again




 6    has already been  taken  care  of within the




 7    Municipality.




 8             Point  7 that  there will  be no new or




 9    substantially  increased discharges from point  sources




10    of pollution  to  which  the  modification  applies above




11    that  of volume discharge specified in the  permit,




12    our computer  model  of  the  estuary  indicates that  it




13    does  have assimilative  capacity,  and I  think that




14    discretion  should be  used  on the basis  of  this




15    computer  model of the  estuary to put a  limit on  what




16    the amount  of discharge should be from the  Municipality



17    of Anchorage.




18             Currently,  the plant  is  designed at  34




19    million gallons  a day.   The  outfall has a  capacity  of




20    accepting 75  million  gallons a  day.




21             The plant was built with a planned increase




22    in capacity prior to  the publication of Public Law




23    92-500.   I  would advocate  that  the increased discharge




24    be tied in  with  the discharge permit.




25             In  conclusion, the Municipality  will apply

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                                                     255





 1    for  a  modification  of  the  discharge  permit.




 2              And  I would  like to  address  some  questions



 3    at this  time.




 4              Yes?




 5              MS.  FRIEDMAN:   I have  a question  about  the




 6    status of  your  state water quality standards.




 7              MR.  DUNN:  That's correct.




 8              MS.  FRIEDMAN:   Are you saying that  you




 9    have no  BOD  pH  or suspended solids at  present  or




10    that your  revision  is  worse than that  you have now?




11              MR.  DUNN:  The  State of Alaska currently




12    has  water  quality standards.   However,  what  they  have




13    is a blanket water  quality standard  for estuaries  in




14    general, not whether they  are  a  classical estuary




15    where  you  have  a  fresh water and a salt water




16    environment  intermixing within an estuary.




17              In discussion with the people at  the State




18    of Alaska  Department of Environmental  Conservation




19    level, they  have  recognized the  fact that Knik Arm,




20    Turnagain  Arm  and Cook Inlet,  the forelands




21    geographical location  does not meet  their sense or




22    anybody's  sense of  a term of a classical estuary  due




23    to the high  sediment loads and the hostile




24    environment  in  that.




25              They  are  currently in  the  process  of

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                                                      256





 1    revising  those water  quality  standards  which will




 2    take  this  into account.   The  time  frame they were talk-




 3    ing about  in  the  last discussion was  on the order




 4    of a  year,  year and  a half,  before the  revisions of




 5    these water quality  standards will come out.




 6              My  suggestion  to  them -- And  this was




 7    accomplished  in the  form of  a letter  accompanied by




 8    the study  which I have referred to,  which we have




 9    completed  for the Corps  of  Engineers  on that




10    estuary  -- is that they  follow this  as  guidelines




11    for the  water quality standards of Knik Arm and




12    Turnagain  Arm and Cook Inlet.




13              MS. FRIEDMAN:   Are these revised water




14    quality  standards more or less stringent than the




15    ones  that currently  exist for the  estuary?




16              MR. DUNN:   I beg  your pardon?  I'm sorry.




17              MS. FRIEDMAN:   Are these revised water




18    quality  standards more or less stringent than the




19    ones  which currently exist  for estuaries in general?




20              MR. DUNN:   I think — And I can't speak for




21    the  State of  Alaska.   I'm employed by the Corps of




22    Engineers, working for the  Municipality.




23              My  feelings are in some  areas they will




24    probably be less  stringent,  and in other areas,  they




25    will  probably be  more stringent.  I do feel that they

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will be more site-specific than they are.




          CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Don?




          MR. DUBOIS:  Jerry,  I understand one




alternative that's being looked at here  is reclamation




in some of the wastewaters.  Is the Corps looking




into this, or is that someone  else's bailiwick?




          MR. DUNN:  Yes,  the  Corps is  looking  into




this.  We have discussed it with  the EPA, State




Department of Environmental Conservation and  discussed




the possibility of discharging primary  effluent  on




this land, using rapid infiltration.




          The geologic conditions there  appear to be




conducive for rapid infiltration.   However,  there are




operation problems during the winter months which




have to be addressed,  and we are talking in terms of




not a full fledged pilot study, but a study to answer




some of the questions for operation and  maintenance




at that so that we can get better results for -- to




do what it would cost to do that.




          MR. DUBOIS:  If a waiver were  granted, what




motivation would there be to pursue the  land applica-




tion approach?




          MR. DUNN:  There are two reasons that we




would consider land application.




          Currently,  the existing outfall, as indicatec

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                                                      258





 1   in this estuary study, is inadequate.  We  are  caught




 2   just inside of a shear zone which causes — which




 3   results in a gyre which rotates  inward landward.




 4   There are indications that there are waste depositions




 5   occurring along the beach.




 6             Whether this is critical  or not, I'm not




 7   sure, because there is limited access to that  beach




 8   since it is around the international airport  area.




 9             The report  itself,  the study, recommends




10   that the outfall be extended  beyond the shear  zone.




11             They had within the report looked at some




12   locations for the outfall.  Whether that is optimum




13   or not, I wouldn't venture to say.   Indications are




14   it's not too far out  beyond where the existing out-




15   fall is to where the  shear zone  would be.  Extension




16   of that outfall would be relatively expensive.




17             It appears  at this  time from a cost-effective




18   standpoint that the difference between the land




19   treatment by rapid infiltration  or  land treatment




20   by rapid infiltration extension  of  the outfall are




21   going to be very, very close.




22             Okay.  Again, depending on operation




23   problems, the cost of operation  and maintenance of




24   the  rapid infiltration bed,  so  to  speak,  in  the




25   Anchorage area, we are looking at that as  an

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                                                     259
1   alternative to primary discharge.




2             MR. DUBOIS:  Thank you.




3             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank you.  I think  that




4   completes our questions.




5             We have eight more witnesses; and  if we




6   are going to complete this by 6:00, which  is  still




7   ray objective, let me express once  again that,  if  you




8   can cross-reference to an earlier  statement  on a




9   specific recommendation, that would save time.




10             Secondly, we are not here to plead  specific




11   cases.  What we are trying to do is get information




12   and guidance on how we should write this set  of




13   regulations and necessary implementing material.




14             So if we can keep  it to  those objectives,




15   we may be able to get out by 6:00.




16             The next witness is Judy Bendor, citizen.




17             MS. JUDY BENDOR:   Well,  my  name  is  Judy




18   Bendor,  and  I am a resident  of the City of Oakland,




19   and I would  like to  say  that, as an unaffiliated




20   citizen, I think I am a  creature that's definitely




21   necessary  for full species diversity  at this public




22   hearing.




23              I  would  like  to< urge  in  the future that




24   there  be  perhaps  a  little bit  greater effort to  reach




25   a  broad  array of the  citizens  on  this issue. I'm not

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sure exactly how it works,  but the Federal Register




is not widely read among certain groups of people.




          Speaking on behalf of a continued program




for secondary treatment, secondary treatment has a




number of advantages, among which was by the mechanism




of removing suspended solids and BOD, you concurrently,




though inadvertenly perhaps, remove toxic materials,




particularly heavy metals and some of your chlorinated




hydrocarbons.  Therefore, if you apply a blanket or




you apply a waiver of secondary without concurrently




having a very stringent pretreatment toxic materials




program, you will probably result in a total increase




of mass emissions over what you would have with




secondary to the -- to the ocean environment.




          As the Environmental Impact Statement  for




the Southern California Bight has indicated, we  have




significant evidence of harm to the species down




there, and we have evidence of fin rot; we have




evidence of heavy metals in critical organisms of  these




species, some of which  I note are only valuable  as




an  indicator of diversity, but are also commercially




important fish.




          Therefore, I would strongly urge that  any




program which waived secondary treatment  have  a




strong pretreatment  program as well, one  that  is

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                                                      261





 1   certainly stronger than what we  have  in  place  now.




 2             I would also urge that we  look very  care-




 3   fully at the proposed new Ocean  Plan  to  ensure that




 4   any changes in the Ocean Plan  have  a  full  opportunity




 5   for citizen input, not just of a specialized  nature,




 6   but a full array of  citizen input  and that the Ocean




 7   Plan itself not have any wide  loophole provisions




 8   which do not have the safe protections for the




 9   environment that are in  the new  Water Act.




10             I have worked  for some years in  water




11   quality, both  in terms of point  source work as well




12   as  in water quality  standards, and I  have  found that




13   a strictly ambient approach to cleaning  up the




14   environment, meaning strictly  background standards,




15   is  not  adequate to really having a full  program;  that




16   you need a point source  or permit  program  as  well so




17   that you can have an enforcement program and  you can




18   have monitoring requirements  above the point  discharge




19             Returning  to a strictly  ambient  approach




20   is  rather returning  to the days  before the 1970 Water




21   Act, and they  have not proved very effective  at clean-




22   ing up   the environment.  An  ambient approach is okay




23   as  a general tool but  not as  a tool of enforcement.




24             I would like to note that some people have




25   slighted over  the idea that  turbulence or suspended

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                                                 262





solids into deep water are not necessarily a problem.




Well,  turbulence is a characteristic of the surf




zone.   It's not necessarily a characteristic of a




deep-water environment.  And the animals which breed




out farther, perhaps two or three miles, at 80 feet




of depth may not be accustomed to such a high




turbulence.  It may involve smothering the species




that are trying to breathe there.




          I would also like to speak on behalf of a




secondary treatment plant, which is a rather finicky




creature. That's one of its advantages.  When a treat-




ment plant operator has a finicky creature who has




a fear that what comes out of it isn't going to be




a very happy lot.  Therefore, a treatment plant




operator will be concerned about the introduction of




toxic materials, not only because he might have a




monitoring report which looks unfavorable, but




because he would actually have a very unhappy plant




which smells and causes citizens complaints.




          Therefore, the  treatment, the secondary




treatment plant, is a  nice indicator sometimes of




what is coming  into it.   And  a strict reliance upon




monitoring requirements does  not only seem to do  the




job, but it's a very extensive way.  In that  regard,




I think the secondary  treatment plant has  some

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 1   advantages.


 2    -         And the last thing is I myself would not


 3   wish to volunteer to be a taxi driver off the


 4   Southern California Bight.


 5             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank you, Judy.


 6             Our next witness finally -- Thanks for
   •
 7   your patience and the remaining peoples' patience


 8   ought to be commended --  is Frank Dryden, representing


 9   the Sanitation Districts  of Los Angeles County.


10             MR. FRANK DRYDEN:   Thank you, Mr. Jorling.


11             Members of the  panel, I do represent the


12   Sanitation Districts, and Mr. John D. Parkhurst,

13   Chief Engineer and General Manager.


14             And I will not  try and make a case for


15   why the Sanitation Districts' Joint Water Pollution


lg   Control Plan outfall out  to be granted  a waiver,  at


17   least not today.  I do intend to before the  deadline


18   has been exceeded, but I  would like to  comment on


19   regulations which are relevant to the eight  criteria


20   in which you are  faced with drafting at  this  time.


21             First  and in the way of background and


22   the legislative  history,  it does seem clear  that


23   Congress does,  in fact, want to  avoid paying  for


24   unnecessary  treatment and does believe  that  there


25   are a limited but meaningful number  of  places  where

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 1   such waivers will probably be  granted.   And  yet  in




 2   looking at the criteria,  it's  apparent  that  they




 3   could be written to essentially  eliminate  everyone




 4   if they were done in  the  most  strict  inflexible  way.




 5   The wording in the criteria  has  that  kind  of



 6   opportunity.




 7              I would hope  that  the  EPA will seek  to




 8   establish  first a simple, clear-cut set of rules that




 9   will determine which  proposals will be  reviewed  for




10   ultimate consideration.




11              In other words, a  simple  screen  that can




12   be used to determine  whether or  not the applicant




13   will continue  in the  process.  And  I  would suggest




14   that the simple screen  could be  based on meeting one




15   of three criteria that  you would actually  have to




16   put whatever numbers  you  want  to, but that the




17   discharge  at least be at  a substantial  depth,  leav-




18   ing what's  "substantial"  up  to you.   I  think something




19   less than  the  35,000  feet that you  have advocated




20   earlier would  be reasonable.




21              Secondly,  that  another criteria  would  be




22   that there would be  at  least a significant initial




23   mixing zone.   Fifty  to  one has been suggested, but




24   there  are  other --  there  are other  perhaps slightly




25   higher numbers  that  would be acceptable.

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          And a third one would be that the applicant




can demonstrate substantial tidal activity, flushing




volumes, as compared to the discharge, where the




waters are moved out of the area and not simply




accumulated and recycled.




          Seems to me if a discharger could show




any one of those three conditions applying in his




situation, he should at least have the opportunity




of proving he meets the remainder of the eight




criteria.




          As for the criteria of themselves, I  think




you may have the most trouble with the first one




because the law does seem  to be written around  BOD,




suspended solids and pH, and as you have heard  today,




those may not be the best  criteria to be looking




at for  marine discharges.




          I do concur with Larry Walker and others




who have  suggested  that  surrogate criteria are  suit-




able, particularly  the  dissolved oxygen or limiting




the change in dissolved  oxygen  from background  levels




of the  receiving water  in  lieu  of a BOD measurement




itself.




          As  for suspended solids,  I   think  that's




more  difficult, although there  has  certainly  been




some  suggestions today.   Turbidity,  light  transmittanc

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                                                     266



 1   measurements which  can  be  made  and which  have some


 2   relevance  to suspended  solids,  at  least  in the water


 3   column.


 4              If you  get  into  looking  at  the  effect of


 5   suspended  solids  on the bottoms and the  bottom
                             *

 6   organisms,  I don't  think there  is  a very  simple way


 7   to  get  at  it.   And  I  don't think suspended solids


 8   in  the  water column as  a measurement  itself that


 9   there  is any particular technical  basis  for picking


10   --  picking a number --  It  would at least  be very


11   arbitrary  and  not very  significant.   Such suspended


12   solids, unless  they are interfering with  light


13   transmittance,  probably are not of concern.


14              The  Faunal  Index is something  new to us


15   that we have not  had  a  chance to evaluate ourselves.


16   Clearly, it is  a  sensitive indicator  and,  as Mr.


17   Bascom  indicated, designed to reflect the impact of


18   waste  discharges.   I  think it's going to  take some


19   careful analysis  to determine what the numbers might


20   actually mean  if  one  were  to take  that approach.


21              It does have  an  apparent advantage in terms


22   of  simplicity  of  measurement and the  ability to


23   produce numbers.  And it certainly deserves your


24   consideration.


25              pH,  by  the  way,  doesn't  appear  to be a

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  parameter that  would need a waiver since normal


  ranges  should be acceptable as presently defined for


  secondary treatment.


            The second criteria, first of all, as for


  recreational use,  ignoring the concept that anyone


  would want to use  seawater as a drinking water supply,


  I think the applicant should be able to demonstrate


  that recreational  activities, such as swimming,


  boating,  fishing,  would  occur the same as they


  would with or without the waiver.  And that is, if

I
  you get the waiver,  you don't impair what would have


  occurred otherwise.   And they will be different in


  different situations.


            I do think, however, that the biggest


  problem you have in this area is looking at the


  effect of past historic discharges, and our particular


  system is a case in point, as has been cited on


  numerous occasions  today.  Most of the problems --


  Many of the problems are related to the historic


  accumulation of DDT in the sediments or the sediments


  themselves, and it  is important that the rules that


  you develop not require that  the balanced  indigenous


  biota be there today because, even if we stopped


  discharge today, the effect  of the past is  going  to


  remain for  an extended period of time.

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 1             I do think there is sufficient scientific




 2   data available from other locations and other  studies




 3   so that scientific judgments can ultimately  be made




 4   about an acceptable level of treatment.




 5             I point out we are not talking about just




 6   doing what we have done in the  past,  or even doing




 7   what we are doing today; we are only  talking about




 8   the question as  to whether there is some level of




 9   treatment between what has gone on  in the  past and




10   complete secondary treatment which  will produce a




11   satisfactory environmental impact.




12             And there is.  And it's  not an "all  or




13   nothing."  You don't have to have  all secondary or




14   just primary.  There are a great range of  treatment




15   options in between, including  a percentage of  primary




16   which would produce a  particular result.




17             As for Criteria 3, monitoring we feel is




18   important regardless of whether or not you have full




19   secondary treatment and that monitoring programs will




20   have to be tailored to the  location,  to the size and




21   type of discharges  that are  actually  occurring and




22   that you  should  not try to  tie down monitoring




23   programs  at  the  time  of the  application precisely.




24   They  are  going  to have to  be  changed and modified



25   as time  goes on.

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 1              And  the  key  thing  is  that  the applicant




 2    is  committed to  a  suitable monitoring program and




 3    that  you  have  some concepts  of  the  basic character




 4    of  a  monitoring  program but  not the  details.




 5              For  Criteria 4,  it seems  to me axiomatic




 6    that,  if  a change  in  the requirements for one




 7    discharge would  result in  an increase for another,




 8    that  it  doesn't  -- it  doesn't qualify, and you should




 9    have  no  problem  with  it.




10              Criteria 5  has to  do  with pretreatment




11    requirements.   This is a difficult  area because I




12    think the pretreatment requirement  program of EPA




13    is  still  up in the air.  At  least we are not aware




14    of  its final  form.  And all  that can be said is




15    the law  requires us to enforce pretreatment programs,




16    and the  applicant  should verify its intent to do  so




17    and show that  it has  the legal capability of doing




18    so.



19              And  the  actual form of the enforcement




20    program  will  develop  with time as the EPA  and every-




21    one else gets  involved.




22              Tne  existence of a -- You know, obviously




23    large agencies should have existing pretreatment




24  I  programs  going now. But they are going  to be  impacted




25    after the EPA  does.

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 1             For Item Criteria 6, this seems to be a




 2   very case-dependent requirement.  It does seem to,




 3   as recognized by the words "to the extent practicable,"




 4   and that somehow the EPA is going to have to indicate




 5   what kind of efforts apply to residential sources




 6   they expect are reasonable in order for  an  applicant




 7   to  have any idea of what he  is supposed to do in




 8   this area.




 9             We have educational programs  going now  that




10   try to tell people, you know, you don't  put toxics




11   down the toilet.  But  the degree of effectiveness  and




12   the degree of importance, it  varies,  I  think,  on   a




13   case-by-case basis.




14             As for Item  7 having  to do  with  increased




15   discharges, I think the legislative history is clear




16   that the volume  limit  will be as  specified  in  the




17   discharger's NPDES permit and that  it is subject  to




18   modification at  an appropriate  time,  generally five-




19   year intervals,  and that  that would  be the  number




20   they are  talking about.




21             Criteria 8,  having to do  with funds, leads




22   to  the  subject  of  applying  those funds usefully to




23   water  reuse  and water  reclamation problems.




24             Sanitation  districts have been a leader




25    in  water  reuse  programs.  We  suppose directing our

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efforts -- In fact,  one of our objectives the last




five years has been to avoid putting so much money




and effort into providing more treatment than




necessary for marine discharges so we could devote




those funds and our efforts to water reuse programs,




which we are still developing and expanding.




          We have a -- We have an expanded -- Excuse




me -- a facilities plan that has been accepted by the




state and EPA  which calls for increasing our water




reuse effort.




          We do not, by the way, expect in our




situation to have any increase of discharges into




the marine environment because we are devoted and,




in our plans, have prepared for increasing our water




reuse program as the method of handling any  increased
flows.
          A word about toxics.
          You mentioned  in your opening  statement




that there are at  least  two  kinds of  toxics:   One  I




would describe, which primarily applies  to  heavy




metals which are naturally occurring  and where the




form and concentration  is an important  factor,  and I




think they should  be distinguished  between  some of




the organic chlorinated  hydrocarbons  like DDT which




are cumulative and resist biodegradation.  They

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 1    concentrate  in  the  environment.

 2              Seems  to  me  that  we  can  use  things  like

 3    the State  Implementation  Plan  Table  B  approach  to

 4    toxics  as  a  very  reasonable basis  for  protecting the

 5    marine  environment  from the natural  -- particularly

 6    from  the natural  type.
                          •
 7              For others,  those which  are  truly  toxics

 °    and highly toxic, not  only  should  we prohibit them

 9    as we do in  our  system  from coming into the  system

10    and work at  finding them  and ridding ourselves  of

11    them  through a  source  control  program, but  it seems

12    to me the  EPA should be more concerned at  the point

13    of their manufacture and  distribution, because  those

14    types of --  types of toxics should not be  released

15    in the  environment  in  the first  place. Their use

16    should  be  controlled.   Their disposal  should be

17    controlled right  from  the source in  a  limit  and

18    mass  balance approach  and with that  kind of  approach,

19    these materials  for which there  is the greatest

20    concern could be  properly kept from influencing and

21    accumulating within the environment.

22              I  would like to make one last comment, and

23    that  has to  do  with something again said in  the

24    opening remarks  this morning,  and that was that at

25    the time of  submittal  for the waiver,  the applicant

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 1   not only had the burden of proof, which  is reasonable,




 2   but had to have every bit of documentation and  support




 3   essential to prove his case in his  application  form.




 4             I have with me today six  inches of  past




 5   reports, which are just a small  quantity of data




 6   that we have accumulated; and  if you  are asking that




 7   we  furnish you absolutely everything  we  have  to be




 8   sure we have covered  every question that you  might




 9   think  of, you are  asking for a monumental submittal




10   of  application data and material.




11             I'd suggest  that your  regulations should




12   certainly require  that  the applicant  speak  to every




13   criteria  that you  have  established; but  if  he fails




14   to  have provided  a specific  bit  of  data, there must




15   be  some room  for  give and  take in the discussion  of




16   those  issues  so  that  such  data can  be presented,




17    if  available,  and considered in  coming to  the final




18   decision.




19              I  think it's unreasonable to expect that




20    each applicant  will have thought of every  question




21    the EPA might think of in reviewing his form prior




22    to  his application.




23              Thank you.




24              CHAIRMAN JORLING:   Thank you, Frank.




25              Paul,  do you have any questions?

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                                                     274






 1             MR. DE FALCO:  Yes.




 2             Frank, could  you  give me  a  little  feeling,




 3   for you are doing some wastewater  reclamation —




 4             MR. DRYDEN:  Yes.




 5             MR. DE FALCO:  —  relatively  speaking,




 6   just  in gross magnitudes, what  is  the  cost  of reclaim-




 7   ing water as opposed  to secondary  treatment as




 8   opposed to primary  or Ocean  Plan treatment?




 9             MR. DRYDEN:  The cost of reclaiming water




10   has gone up with the  advent  of  tertiary mixed-media




11   filters.  There was a time when the  cost of reclaim-




12   ing water would be  comparable  to the cost of




13   secondary treatment and ocean  discharge.  It  is now




14   more  costly  than even secondary treatment into ocean




15   discharge, and  it  is  obviously  more  costly than some-




16   thing that encompasses somewhat less.




17             And,  in  our case,  you must recognize we




18   are committed  to 200  mgd of  biological secondary




19   treatment out  of a  total  flow  of  350 at the present




20   time.   And we  expect  that  flow to  decrease as we




21   increase our water  reuse  program.




22             So we  are talking  about  having 60 percent




23   of  our system  in biological  secondary.




24             We  are  also talking  about a major change,




25   and that  is  just  going  into  effect now, and yet we

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                                                      275




    can already see the changes in the marine environment




    of removing the centrate solids from our sludge,




    digested sludge dewatering system, a major  effort




    which is going to take time to see all  of the  effects.




    But we can already see a significant change.




              So that these -- these  projected  changes,




    we think, need to be taken into account.




 8             From a cost standpoint, water reclamation




 9   will cost more.  We think it's worth it.  We  think




10   the water is worth it, and we are committed to doing




11   it.




12             MR. DE FALCO:  That was my next question.




13             Apropos of worth or value of  the  water,




14   are you  finding a market for that water?




15             MR. DRYDEN:  As you are aware,  I'm sure




16   that we  are  involved in  a major study  to try and




17   determine a  suitable market  for the water.   The




18   market  is not there.   It's not sitting  out  there.




19   We have  water now that is not being used.   It's being




20   treated  to  the point where it could be  used.  It is




21   not being used.




22             There are many  reasons  for  this.   Some of




23   them are health reasons;  some of  them  are practical




24   reasons  in  terms  of delivery systems  that are needed.




25   There  are  institutional  problems  to  be overcome.

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                                                     276





 1             We think they can be overcome with studies




 2   and with mutual efforts that are being mounted in




 3   the Los Angeles/Orange County area.




 4             It's going to take time.  We have been work-




 5   ing on this for 30 years, and we still at  the present




 6   time only have about four mgd, which  is only about




 7   half of our present treated flow,  that could be used




 8   in use.




 9             But the drought has provided considerable




10   impetus for the concern  for reuse. We are  hoping




11   to ride that impetus into an expanded program.




12             The support  of the state,  the support of




13   the EPA, for reuse are tremendous  lifts to our




14   program, and we expect it to develop  over  the  next




15   five to ten years so that we hope  all of the  good




15   quality water that we  have  will  be used.




17             I mention "good quality."   Because  some




18   people  forget that the water which is going to  the




19   ocean  is very salty water.  From the Los Angeles  area,




20   we have many poor quality water  supplies to begin




21   with.   You  get  concentration  of  waters  in  addition




22   to salts during use.   The water  that we  are putting




23   into the ocean  could  not be practically  reused with-




24   out  very expensive desalinization processes.   That




25   water  is going  to  continue  to  go to  the  ocean whether

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                                                      277






  1   it's given secondary treatment or filtered or any-



  2   thing unless it was desalted, and desalting  is --




  3   really seems to be economically out of the picture




  4   at this time.




  5             I  think people mustn't forget  that because




  6   it's easy to look at it and say, "Why don't  you  reuse



  7   it all?"




  8             And the answer is, "The salt."




  9             So we are segregating the good quality




 10   water, treating it with biological processes and




 11   filters and  putting it to use. All that  does is




 12   increase the salt content of what's left.  It needs



 13   to go to the ocean.




 14             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank you very  much.




 15             Petersburg, Alaska,representatives John



 jg   Floden and David lloffat.



 17             MR. DAVID MOFFAT:  Ladies and  gentlemen



 .„   of the panel and the remaining audience:




 19             My name is David Moffat.  I am the City



 20   Manager of Petersburg, Alaska.




 21             And> as you will note, the EPA got to  us



 22   fourth from  the bottom on today.  I wish they could




 23   have done that with the Federal Water Pollution




24   Control  Act of 1972,  otherwise known as Public Law




25   92-500.

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                                                     278






 1              If we are  not one of  the  first  in  Alaska,




 2   and possibly the United States,  I will  be very




 3   surprised  to have secondary treatment  now going  on




 4   the line.




 5              I had planned to deal  in  great  detail  with




 6   the economic and political impact in  the  community  of




 7   such  a  situation.  However, because of  the lateness




 8   of the  hour and the  desire to  have  our  Engineer




 9   handle  some, what I  feel  are even more  important




10   aspects,  I will limit  myself considerably.




11              Although we  are not  as far  as away as




12   Samoa,  Guam, Saipan  and the Trust Territories,  some-




13   times I genuinely feel we are  as geographically




14   remote.  And many of  the things I heard  those




15   gentlemen  saying I  felt would  apply to  our situation.




16              Certainly, we are environmentally unique.




17   We have on line a secondary treatment plant that is




18   the most  magnificent edification in the community of




19   Petersburg.  Whenever  anybody, engineer-wise, friend




20   of mine comes  to town, I  always drive him up there,




21   and they  always whistle,  and  I always think, "Oh,




22   if only the fellow  who designed —  the architect




23   who did the schools  had done  the wastewater treat-




24   ment  and the  fellow  who  did  the wastewater treat-




25   ment  had done  the schools, we  would be in beautiful

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                                                      279



 1    shape."


 2              But  we  have  our  problems,  and it's


 3    difficult  in my  role  as  City  Manager to answer 2,126


 4    peoples' questions  as  to why  we have secondary treat-


 5    ment when  I haven't the  faintest idea myself.   And


 6    no  engineer I  have  ever  spoken with  feels that we


 7    need  it.


 8              I know  nothing about this  -- I have  listened


 9    all day, and much of  what  I  heard,  I don't --  I'm


10    not fully  aware  of, I  would  be the  first to admit.


11    I  do  know  that we have a plant that, for reasons


12    again  that escape me  --  Maybe my Engineer will speak


13    to  them  -- it  frequently doesn't work.  The Public


14    Works  Director calls  me  at midnight  and says,  "I


15    have  to  bypass."



16              Finally,  I  told  him, "Don't call anymore.


17    You have got  an  automatic  bypass.  Bypass.  Don't


18    wake   me up  to bypass."


19              He's bypassing anyway.


20              Tne  Plant is,  by engineering estimates,


2i    two to four  times larger than the city would need.


22    My  Engineer  will explain.   In a community that size,


23    we  are very  cognizant and  aware of health and


24    sanitary needs.   And the plant, in fact,  is self-
                                      4

25    defeating, as  he will explain to you.

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                                                    280





              I said to a United States Senator on the




    phone the other day, who is very popular in Petersburg,




    I said, "If you come and see us and promise you




    don't let anybody know, I will take you from house




    to house and quick act like you have to go to the




    bathroom, and they will run ahead of you because




    nobody in Petersburg flushes the toilet."




 8             We have the water in, water out.  You have




 9   to save the water.




10             My first official act in  four — I should




11   add,  I'm in Petersburg 20 months.   My Engineer  is




12   there six months.  Had I been  there  in  '72, we




13   would be much closer to the bottom  on this




14   implementation.   I can assure  you of that.  But that's




15   neither here nor  there.




16              I'd finally  like  to  say  I  have   read  the




17   amendments pretty carefully, and  I  don't  quite  under-




18   stand  how  they  speak to waivers as  regards




19   situations such as mine where  we  already  have  it.




20   We have  got seven to eight  million  dollars worth.




21   And  I  have even asked  the  same Senator  what  I  should




22   do about  that,  and  I will  refrain  from  giving  you




23   his  answer.




24              At  this point  I  will turn it  over  to my




25   Engineer,  and  I thank  you  very much for giving me

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                                                    281


 1   the opportunity to testify.

 2             MR. JOHN P.. FLODEN:  Members of  the panel:

 3             My name is John Floden.   I'm the City

 4   Engineer for the City of Petersburg.

 5             Basically, I have  got  two parts  to my

 6   statement. First, an introductory statement  telling  a
                                                  •
 7   little bit about the plant,  and  then  some  specific

 8   comments on  the criteria.

 9             Our introductory statement  may  sound  a

10   little  specific as  a case-type  statement, but  I

11   feel  that it's  necessary to  establish our  position

12   concerning the  waiver question.

13             The City  of Petersburg is located  in

14   Southeastern Alaska.  It's centrally  located in

15   the  Alaskan  Panhandle.

16             And,  members  of  the panel,  I'm going  to

17   paraphrase a little bit  through  this  statement  so

18   that I  don't have  to read  it verbatim.

19              It lies  on Frederick Sound right near

20   where the Wrangell  Narrows enters Frederick Sound.

21              The  climate is a maritime climate.  The

22    annual  precipitation for Petersburg is 106 inches;

23    annual  snowfall is  103  inches,

24              The   town is  an old town with a fishing-

25    based economy.   The population has a growth rate of

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                                                     282





 1   about four percent in recent years.  The present




 2   population, as Dave mentioned, was 2,126, and  the




 3   1993 estimate is 4,000.




 4             Prior to the present wastewater treatment




 5   project, sewage wastes from the City of Petersburg




 6   were collected and dumped at 11 point outfalls  into




 7   the Wrangell Narrows and/or Frederick Sound.   Some




 8   of these outfalls were above low water at the  tides




 9   and, thus, did create a  nuisance problem.




10             In October of  1972, the  city began  to work




11   on a wastewater treatment system.  The system  was  to




12   be financed 75 percent federal, 12 and a half  state




13   and 12  and a half local.  The project was divided




14   into two phases.  The first phase  was construction




15   of a force main sewer, with pump stations built to




15   connect the existing outfalls and  to route  the wastes




17   to the  new plant site.   A deep water outfall  was




18   also constructed during  Phase 1.   Phase  2 consisted




19   of construction of the actual treatment  plant.




20             At this time,  the City of Petersburg has




2i   accepted the major part  of  the system as substantially




22   complete. The contractor is still  on site,  finishing




23   incineration equipment where work  is cleaning up




24   punch-list items of Phase 2.  The  plant  has been  on




25   line since the spring of 1977.

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 8




 9




10




11




12




13




14




15




16




17




18




19




20




21




22




23




24



25
                                                 283





          We were -- We did comply with the 1972 law.




Obtaining adequate growth in our biomass on the




ABS tower was difficult, but due to a nice summer




for the City of Petersburg last year, which was a




drought down here, we did get adequate growth on that




tower.  Otherwise, we wouldn't have made it accord-




ing to certain engineers.




          Operation has continued since that time,




with very many difficulties.




          What have we  obtained by having  this  plant




on line?  We get  good treatment of the waste flows




that go  through  the plant.  Unfortunately, the  plant




is bypassed  periodically so that  no  treatment  results




at these  times.




          Further,  approximately  100  homes in  the




town  are  not hooked up  to  the  sewer  system because




they  are  too low to be  hooked  up  without  expensive




pump  systems.  Sewage  from these  is  turned into the




Wrangell  Narrows,  the  same as  it  has  always  been.




Effectively, about two-thirds  of  the wastes  are thus




treated.




          The  other major  problem that results from




the  sewage  treatment  plant is  the defeat of  the




basic reason for a water-borne waste  system.   That




is,  to remove  wastes  from the home  as

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                                                     284






 1   quickly as possible for sanitary and health  reasons.




 2   The 12 and a half percent local share  is being  paid




 3   for with revenues derived from plant operation.   With




 4   a $13 minimum for the  first  1,000  gallons  of water




 5   use, and a 50 cent charge for every  1,000  gallons




 6   thereafter, plus a similar water bill,  the people of




 7   Petersburg, in  an attempt to save  water and  cut their




 8   monthly water and sewer bills, no  longer  flush  their




 9   toilets.




10             On a  spot check of homes,  you could probably




11   find 90 percent with sewage  waste  in the  toilets,




12   defeating the very purpose of sewage collection and




13   treatment, creating an unsafe sanitary condition.




14             The question should be  asked, "Is  all this




15   all really necessary?"




16             The outfall  for the system is 1300 feet




17   offshore and is 60 feet below mean low low water.  At




lg   this point, the bottom drops away  very quickly.




19   Another thousand  feet  of  pipe outfall  would put us




20   into water over 400  feet  in  depth.




21             The estimated  1993 average sewage flow for




22   the City of Petersburg is  1.24  cfs.   The estimated




23   flow based on currents in  Frederick Sound is



24   19,200,000 cfs.




25              In  looking  at  these figures, it is absurd

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                                                     285





    to say that the City of Petersburg's sewage wastes



2   impact on the water environment of Frederick Sound.




3             Considering our statement as made, the




4   City of Petersburg is very concerned that, after we




5   have gone to the trouble, time and expense of putting




6   in  a major waste treatment facility, that now the




    regulations and requirements will be changed, and it




8   will be decided we did not have to go to  this trouble,




9   time and expense. We are unique in this matter because




10   we have already installed a secondary treatment




    facility, and we are further unique because we feel




12   that not only is secondary treatment not  needed  for




13   Petersburg, but that primary treatment is also




14   unnecessary because of the minuscule amount of waste




15   generated by Petersburg  and discharged into Frederick




    Sound and creates no environmental degradation or



    impact.




18             Further, an economic hardship has been




19   created and placed upon  the people of Petersburg by




20   the requirement for unnecessary treatment.  This




21   economic hardship has further  caused a potential




22   health hazard because it has created unsanitary




23   conditions  in the homes  of Petersburg  residents  on




24   their  attempt to conserve on water use and  thereby




25   reduce their monthly billing.

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                                                     286



 1             Just an off fact on that.  The average


 2   monthly sewer and water bill in Petersburg runs


 3   between $50 and $70.


 4             Since the requirements of sewage treatment


 5   came by way of the federal government, the City of


 6   Petersburg feels that the federal  government  is
         •
 7   responsible and should remedy the  situation.


 8             The City of Petersburg proposes the  follow-


 9   ing two remedies to the situation:


10             That the plant be bypassed permanently;


11   that the  federal government reimburse  the city its


12   12 and a  half percent share of  costs expended to


13   date; or  that
   i

14             Two.  That  the plant  be  operated  to treat


15   the wastes of Petersburg to a secondary  level of


16   treatment in  order  that the money  spent  to  date not


17   be  totally wasted,  and that  the  city  be reimbursed


18   its 12 and a  half  percent  share since  the  plant is


19   not needed and would  only  be  operated  for  show, and


20   that the  city be  given  a yearly grant  equaling the


21   cost of  operation,  maintenance, and administration


22    to  pay  for the  operation  of  the unneeded plant.


23              The additional  pages  in the  statement are


24    data-type information,  and while our conclusions in


25    that opening  statement  are not  specifically geared to

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                                                     287





1   the secondary waiver, we are continuing to work on




2   those and other means.




3             Our specific comments on the criteria are




4   the September, 1977, deadline for applications is




5   too early unless this is to be interpreted as a dead-




6   line for giving a notice of intent to apply  for the




7   waiver.  Otherwise,  funds should be given to small




8   towns and communities to bear the cost of the




9   unnecessary or the  necessary consultants which would




10   be required if we have to do it in such a short time.




11   If we have further  time, we can do it in-house, which




12   is more bearable to  a small community.




13             On  Item No. 2, recreational activities




14   should be defined specific to an area and not by  an




15   overall general definition.




16             Item 3, the extent of the monitoring




17   requirements  should be based on the extent  the




18   community can afford to pay.




19             On  the fourth item, this should be strictly




20   interpreted by EPA,  we feel, in order to protect




21   small  communities,  such as Petersburg,  from  large




22   dischargers who can more easily pay  for  secondary




23   treatment.




24             On  the seventh item,  allow  for  a




25   community growth during the  five-year waiver time and

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                                                     288






 1   for continued growth during each subsequent waiver




 2   granted.



 3             From the above five statements that I made,




 4   it can be seen that the community of Petersburg feels




 5   very, very strongly that community size is a very




 6   important factor in the regulations that are going




 7   to be adopted; that smaller communities should




 8   definitely be given some type of advantage in apply-




 9   ing  for this waiver because the costs  that they have




10   to bear for  treatment  are much greater  percentagewise




11   per  person.




12             Our main comment  is that those communities




13   which have complied with the  law and have  constructed




14   secondary  treatment  facilities to date be not




15   excluded because of their prior good faith from  now




16   obtaining a  waiver of  the unneeded treatment  in




17   order that we can remove this burden from  the




18   shoulders of the people  in  these small towns.




19             We do want  to  state we will  be  applying




20   for  a waiver unless we are  specifically excluded




21   because we already  have  treatment.




22             That's all  that  I have.




23             CHAIRMAN  JORLING:  Any  questions?




24             MR- DUBOIS:   Did  I  understand you  correctly



25   that you  said $50  to  $70 per month  for the sewage bill

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                                                     289
1




2




3




4




5




6




7




8




9




10




11




12




13




14




15




16




17




18




19




20




21




22




23




24




25
alone?
          MR.  FLODEN:  No.  That is sewer and water




          MR.  DUBOIS:  How much of that for each?




          MR.  FLODEN:  It's about half and half.




          MR.  DUBOIS:  All right.




          MR.  FLODEN:  A slight bit more  to the
sewage.
          CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank  you.




          Our next witness  is Ramon Guzman  from  Puerto




Rico .



          MR. RAMON M.  GUZMAN:   My  name  is  Ramon




Guzman.   I am representing  the  Puerto  Rico  Aqueduct




and  Sewer Authority of  the  Commonwealth  of  Puerto




Rico .



          I  wish  to start  my  brief  presentation by




borrowing a  phrase  from the gentleman  from the Metro




system who started  his  presentation earlier this




afternoon when  he said  that Congress should be




congratulated  for attaining these amendments to the




Water Pollution Control Act.   I think that rather




than congratulate,  maybe the best words would be




the  very needed corrections that Congress  is intending




to do, not  only making this correction, and this  is




 a secondary  thing,  but as well we  all know that  there




 are  some other corrections that maybe at a later  time

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                                                     290





 1   Congress might make for these needed corrections.




 2             We all know that 92-500 does not allow




 3   flexibility of waste treatment as it was the




 4   Congressional intent to provide equity among  the




 5   municipalities and industry.  It  is known  that  this




 6   equity concept that the Act requires does  not




 7   differentiate between receiving bodies of  water,




 8   their capability for waste assimilation  or




 9   geographical conditions.  But we  all know  that  this




10   concept of  equity has brought many  controversial




11   and possibly unjustified  limitations at  areas where




12   the concept of environmental protection  could be




13   done  at a  much lower expense of  funds  and, on some




14   occasions,  with  less total  environmental degradation




15   The proposed modification of Section 301 of 92-500




16   is, in  our opinion,  a  forward  step  toward different




17   approaches in  some  special  cases.




18              I  remember Congressman Jim Wright,  speak-




19   ing to  the Oversight Committee in Washington to




20   discuss the implementation  of  92-500,  who stated as




21    follows:




22                 "One  cannot  speak of the  grant




23         program without getting into EPA's




24         definition  of  secondary treatment.   Its




25         definition  and its application nationwide

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                                                     291





1        has caused considerable consternation




2        because some communities, looking at




3        a variety of local circumstances,




4        consider it to be wasteful, excessive




5        and even environmentally unsound.  To




5        mention only a few situations where




7        greater flexibility would seem to be




8        appropriate are those conditions where




g        the outfall pipe  empties into the deep




10        ocean."




11              And  the Water Quality  Strategy  Paper




12   prepared by  the  EPA staff years  ago says:




13                 "Common sense dictates that  the




14        economic  and environmental  effects  of  a




15        course  of  action  should  be  considered




lg        together  and that there  should be  a




17        regulation comparison of these with  the




         costs and  benefits of other courses  of




         action."




20              One of the  conditions for  the modification




     of  secondary treatment requirements  proposed  requires




22    the need  to maintain  water  quality and the protection




23    and propagation of  a  balanced,  indigenous population




24    of  shellfish,  fish  and wildlife.




25              Biologists  can  run  bioassay analyses  and

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                                                     292






 1   determine the TL levels for the marine line prevailing



 2   in the area of discharge and then set a limitation




 3   based on their tolerance limits.




 4             It is possible now to have a biological




 5   modular which can indicate the effect of any discharge




 6   in the ecosystem, just as we put data on an air




 7   emission model to predict the effect of the plume




 8   discharge to the air.




 9             EPA has its own mathematical model to




10   determine the dilution when wastewaters are discharged




11   to the ocean through a submerged outfall.  These




12   technologies can assure complicance with the require-




13   ments of the proposed modification.  Another condition




14   requires that the applicant should  establish a




15   schedule of  activities designated  to eliminate  the




16   entrance of  toxic pollutants.




17             We have done calculations  to  determine  the




18   residual concentrations on  toxic pollutants once




19   discharged  through  a submerged  outfall  for at  least




20   one  of our  systems.  These  calculations, based  on




21   prolonged studies,  indicated  concentrations much




22   below  the tolerance limits  for  these  species  of




23   marine  life indigenous  to  the area of  discharge.




24             We consider  that  when toxic  or  trouble-




25   some ions  are  present,  pretreatment must  be provided

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                                                      293






 1   to  permit  the  discharge  of  wastewaters through a




 2   submarine  outfall.   Toxic  ions can be controlled




 3   through  pretreatment requirements in the regulation




 4   for admittance of  wastewaters  to the municipal




 5   sewerage system.




 6             The  publicly  owned system can request pre-




 7   treatment  of some  of the industrial wastewaters, and




 8   thus  limit the concentration of the toxic or any




 9   troublesome ion that may adversely affect the receiv-




10   ing waters.  The pretreatment  consideration in primary




11   treatment  with ocean outfalls  is a safety measure




12   to  insure  that no  toxic  ion could be present in




13   concentrations that  will be detrimental to the marine




14   line  in  the area of  discharge.




15             We consider also  that with the provisions




16   indicated  in the proposed  modifications for secondary




17   treatment  requirements,  the maintenance of the state




18   water  quality  criteria,  and adequate monitoring, among




19   other  reasons,  will  assure  the maintenance of good




20   conditions,  fulfilling  the  requirements of 92-500 in




21   the spirit of  the  law.




22             There is no limitation on dissolved oxygen




23   in  submarine outfalls,  provided that an adequate




24   diffuser system is designed.   Even in Puerto Rico,




25   where  the  prevailing tropical  climate results in lower

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    DO saturations because of higher temperatures as




    compared to the U.S. mainland, the depletion of




    oxygen does not go far.  One item of consideration




    is the long-terra oxygen demand compared with the




    short term.  The five-day BOD test, at 20 degrees




    Centigrade, which is used in Puerto Rico, seldom




    applies to their local conditions.




 8              It does not  take more  than ten  to  twelve




 9   hours at any point  in  Puerto Rico for a discharge




10   to  reach  the ocean waters. Thus, the oxygen demand




11   of wastewaters discharged into receiving  streams  in




12   Puerto Rico will be oxidized  in  the ocean,  right  on




13   the shoreline.  Through an ocean outfall,  the  oxygen




14   demand will be satisfied  in a more  efficient way  than




15   in plants  providing secondary treatment,  as  the




16   effluent  in the latter goes to  the  shoreline.




17              The  higher  the  degree  of  treatment,  the




18   higher  the cost and non-water quality  considerations.




19   But has  the non-water  quality considerations that




20   92-500,  in Section  304 (1)  (b)  (1)  been  taken  into




21   consideration  for  coastal communities?  We do  not




22   think so.   It  is  the  same regulation  which provides




23   no  flexibility of  treatment.   The higher degree of




24   treatment, the higher the need  for additional  energy,




25   and  consequently  use  of fuel.  Puerto Rico, as well  as

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 1   Hawaii and the Virgin Islands, must depend  fully  on

 2   the import of fuel at a very high cost.

 3             Senator Fong of Hawaii has  stressed  the

 4   need to include benefit-cost considerations  in

 5   environmental projects.  Scientific research in

 6   Hawaii has already demonstrated  that  advanced  primary
                                 •
 7   treatment is sufficient for Honolulu  and  that

 8   secondary treatment with full  chlorination  is  neither

 9   relevant nor cost-effective and  is particularly

10   "wasteful of resources."

11             Such also is the opinion of the Commonwealth

12   of Puerto Rico, where it has been demonstrated by

13   actual operations that the receiving  waters can  be

14   adequately protected without the necessity  of  spend-

15   ing unnecessary public funds.

16             In the meantime, the Commonwealth of Puerto

17   Rico does not have the needed  funds  to provide

18   adequate water pollution control programs through

19   construction of secondary  facilities  at many of its

20   communities.  The use of the  limited public funds for

21   overp'rotection of the ocean waters  without enough

22   funds  to protect  the  inland  surface  waters at other

23   communities  is not,  in  our opinion,  environmentally

24   sound.

25             While  being  a  member two  years ago  of  the

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    Effluent Standard and Water Quality Information




    Advisory Committee created under Section 515 of 92-500,




3   we had the chance to discuss some of these




4   inconsistencies of the Act.  This topic of ocean out-




5   falls surfaced as one in which modifications should




6   be done to make the mid-course corrections to P.L.




7   92-500.




8             A point of consideration  in our specific




9   case is that Puerto Rico has the lowest per  capita




10   income among the  50 states.  Puerto Rico does not




11   even have the  necessary public  funds  to match the




12   federal funds.  When you consider   that 70 percent




13   of the publicly owned treatment  works  in  the




14   continental U.S., with  a much  healthier economy than




15   Puerto  Rico could not attain  the BPCTCA concept by




16   the  statutory  deadline, you must imagine  how uphill




17   the  road  has been for us.   We  cannot  afford  to  use




18   public  funds  in  overprotection of  the receiving




19   waters, when  there  are  inland communities with no




20   waste  treatment  at  all,  and many others  that must be




21   upgraded.




22              The  EPA Region  II determined after the July




23    1st  deadline  that 90 percent of our publicly owned




24   treatment works  did not meet the requirements, not




25   because the Island  is not conscious of the  need to

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                                                     297
protect the surrounding waters and our beaches, but




because of lack of funds.




          We are including as part of this




presentation an estimate of the average cost per  family




needed to construct municipal sewage systems to




groups in Puerto Rico which at this time are not




served by this necessary service.  There are at this




time 473,366 families which do not have sewer  service.




This means that less than half of the families in




Puerto Rico are not served by a public sewerage




system.  The Island needs $265 million to provide




this service.




          On the other hand, the estimated  additional




cost in 20 years to provide secondary treatment to




wastewater treatment facilities on coastal




municipalities is about $123 million.  This  is what




we referred to previously as overprotection  of ocean




waters, at the rate of $123 million, while  these




473,000 families do not have any sewerage services.




          There are 207 community areas in  Puerto




Rico, with a total of 71,780 families, which have




no sewerage service.  You can imagine the public




health problems existing and those that can be




solved by serving these  families.  There  are also




another 401,586 families that do not  live  in these

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 1   communities.  Neither of  these  are  served  by




 2   sewerage systems.




 3             With  the  $123 million for secondary  treat-




 4   ment  at the  coastal  communities,  Puerto  Rico  can  match




 5   funds  for a  total of $228  million,  which together with




 6   the state funds will make  a  total of $351  million.




 7   We can construct with these  funds the facilities  to




 8   serve  these  207 municipalities.




 9             These systems have already been  designed.




10   Puerto Rico  needs these $123 million for the  need to




11   provide sewer service to  the smaller communities.




12   In fact, these  inland communities are composed of




13   families with the lowest  per capita income.




14             In approving  the proposed legislation for




15   secondary treatment  required amendments, Congress at




16   the same time is making a mid-course correction in the




17   implementation  of 92-500,  and correct one  of  the




18   inconsistencies of  the  Act that has been the  subject




19   of wide disagreement among engineers, scientists,




20   and municipal and state officers.  We hope that




21   Congress approves this  amendment.




22             We are not here to present the specific




23   case  of Puerto  Rico, but  to defend  a legislation  that




24   will  also benefit other areas in the United States,




25   and which does  not  violate the Congressional  intent

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                                                      299





 1    to  protect  our  surface  waters.   It  is,  in our opinion,




 2    within  the  spirit  of  the law,  which sets a goal to




 3    greatly  reduce  pollution in the nation's waters.




 4             Thank you  very much  for this  opportunity




 5    to  present  our  points of view.   Those are our




 6    comments for  this  presentation.




 7             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  All right.   Thank you




 8    very  much.




 9             Does  anyone have any questions?




10             MR. DE FALCO:   No.




11             MS. FRIEDMAN:   No.




12             MR. DUBOIS:  No.




13             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank  you.




14             It's  just  about 6:00.  We have four witnesses




15    to  go.   I think, rather than have a break for dinner




16    and come back,  we  will  try and test everybody's




17    patience.




18             So  our next witness  is Ken Ensroth from




19    the Seattle Chapter  of  the Sierra Club.




20             MR. KEN  ENSROTH:  I  want  to thank you, Mr.




21    Jorling and the panel and the  hearing reporter, for




22    being very  patient and courteous throughout the long




23    technical hearing.  You made this day much more




24    bearable for  all of  us.




25             My  name  is Ken Ensroth, and I am a research

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                                                      300






 1   assistant on water issues  for  the  Northwest  Office




 2   of  the Sierra Club, 4534  1/2 University  Way,  N.E.,




 3   Seattle, Washington 98105.




 4             I am also appearing  today on behalf  of  the




 5   National Sierra Club office at  530 Bush  Street,




 6   San Francisco 94108, and  the Clean Water Coalition  of




 7   Metropolitan Seattle.




 8             Before giving our substantive  comments, we




 9   would like  to register our concern with  the  inadequacy




10   of  the EPA's public participation  efforts  in  this




11   matter.  It was our understanding  that EPA was going




12   to  solicit  citizens' views in  a wide-ranging  hearing




13   schedule.   Yet to date this is  the only  hearing that




14   has been announced.




15             It is also entirely  unclear  to us  as to




16   whether EPA has already drafted regulations  on




17   secondary treatment waivers for deep ocean dischargers




18   or  whether  you are still  in the process.  The January




19   27  draft of the preliminary concept papers on the




20   Clean Water Act Amendments simply  says under Ocean




21   Outfalls:




22                  "Not available  as part  of  this




23         package;  Project  being  accomplished



24         separately."




25             Such a  section  appears to be  totally absent

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                                                     301






1   from the February 10 draft.  Where and when is this




2   project being accomplished?  Why were citizens not




3   involved from the beginning of the process?  What




4   opportunity is there for written comment?




5             We hereby request that similar hearings be




6   held in a reasonable geographic distribution around




7   the country as our membership  in the  Northeast,




8   Northwest, and elsewhere believe that they  have  some-




9   thing  to say on  this matter.




10             We also  ask  for  reasonable  advance   notice




11   of  hearing dates.  Our San Francisco  office received




12   only  two weeks'  notification  of  this  hearing.   Many




13   interested citizens  received  no  notification  at  all.




14             We believe  that  the Clean  Water  Act  mandates




15    full  public  involvement and that  EPA's efforts on




16    this  question  have been less  than  satisfactory.




17              The  process  and  the time frame for




18    consideration  of marine discharge waivers  from




19    secondary  treatment have not been clear to the




20    general public.   In Seattle,  information in the press




21    from Metro seemed to  indicate that Metro would have




22    little difficulty in  obtaining a waiver.   We believe




23    that this is not the  case and that the public needs




24   to be informed.




25             One of our  primary  concerns  when discussing

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                                                      302




    waivers  from  secondary  treatment  is  the  adverse

 o
    impact of  toxic  chemicals  on  aquatic biota.   Acute


    toxicity,  as  well  as  chronic  toxicity,  bioaccumulation,

 A
    and physical  accumulation make  many  components of


 ^   primary  sewage effluent potentially  very hazardous


    to marine  life.   Secondary treatment removes not only


 7   80 to  90 percent of  BOD and suspended solids,  but


 8   also  the majority  of  most  toxic chemicals through


 9   biochemical  action on the  chemicals  themselves, and


10   by removing  chemicals adsorbed to suspended solids.


11              A  recent study of sewage effluent


12   constituents  in  San  Francisco Bay showed that


13   detergent  residues had the highest toxicity to marine


14   line  of  these constituents.  Detergent is


15   substantially removed from the effluent by secondary


16   treatment.   Most heavy metals are also removed by


17   secondary  treatment.   These factors need to be taken


18   into  account.


19              By  removing a high percentage of the toxics


20   and  heavy  metals,  the effluent can be safely reused


21   in  a  wide  variety of applications, from irrigation to


22   watering city parks  to stream flow augmentation to


23   whatever.   The recent period of western drought has


24   shown us we  cannot take the resource value of water


25    for  granted.   With rising  demands on water supply,

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                                                      303
the resource value of reclaimed water is also




i ncreased.




          As to the question of pretreatment, we




believe the municipality should be required  to show




proof of a history of compliance with the current




federal standards, not only in their regulations, but




also in their monitoring and enforcement.




          The 1975 list of major commercial




dischargers to Seattle Metro's sewage system compiled




by Metro Engineers has some rather questionable




entries:




          Pacific Garages discharges 27,000  gallons




per day of acids, caustics, resins, solvents,




fertilizers, detergents and chemicals, COD,  BOD,  SS,




and oil.  The treatment method listed for this




discharge is "pretreatment being developed."




          Bethlehem Steel discharges 32,000  gallons




per day of tin, zinc  and oil, with no pretreatment




listed.




          Many other  dischargers of toxics  to Metro




appear  to have only minimal pretreatment  facilities.




And the monitoring and  enforcement of dischargers




that do have substantial pretreatment listed is
unclear.
          Before Metro,  or  any  other municipalty,  is

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                                                      304
granted a waiver from secondary treatment, they should




prove that they have attained a high level of pre-




treatment, and that their effluent meets toxics




standards equivalent to, or greater than, secondary




treatment.  Such a proof would not only help to




protect water quality and aquatic biota, it would




allow for the safe application of sludge to




agricultural crops and other land disposal methods.




          Many of the locations where this type of a




waiver could theoretically be considered are part of




complex  estuarine systems, such as Puget Sound and




San Francisco Bay.  We are only beginning to under-




stand the high resource value, both economic and




biological, of estuaries.




          Page 67 of the regional environmental




impact statement on Metro's proposed sewage




facilities states that:




             "Estuaries, such as Puget Sound,




     also serve as nurseries for a number of




     aquatic organisms, providing food and




     shelter for embryonic larval, juvenile




     and adult life stages.  Early life stages




     are especially sensitive to environmental




     conditions."




          Puget Sound and San Francisco Bay are also

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                                                      305






 1    important  migratory  corridors  for anadromous fish and




 2    many  bird  species.   Protection of these  resources




 3    must  be  a  major  aspect  of  the  cost/benefit  analysis




 4    of  secondary  treatment.




 5              We  believe the municipality should be




 6    required to monitor  not only  dischargers to its




 7    system,  but also the quality  of its  effluent and the




 8    receiving  water  body,  for  a period of time  before a




 9    a waiver is granted.  Such monitoring should




10    demonstrate that the municipality is not discharging




11    harmful  quantities of toxic chemicals.   If  a waiver




12    is  then  granted, continual and frequent  monitoring




13    of  the discharge and the receiving body  should be




14    required.   If at any time  it  is found that  the




15    discharge   is having a  significant adverse  impact on




16    the receiving body,  the waiver should be reevaluated




17    and possibly  revoked.  All monitoring should be




18    corroborated  by  independent monitoring by EPA or an




19    appropriate state agency.




20              The question  of  how to define  a "balanced,




21    indigenous population of shellfish,  fish and wild-




22    life" is a difficult one.   However,  the  species




23    composition historically present in a given area




24    should be  considered.




25              San Francisco Bay once had an  indigenous

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population of Dungeness Crab.  The reasons for their

disappearance are not clear, but pollution is quite

possibly a factor.

          Page 71 of Metro's regional EIS states

that "while no direct cause-and-effect relationship

can be demonstrated at West Point (Metro's largest

facility), the evidence thus far suggests that the

deep water fish community there may have been altered

by the discharge of wastewater."

          Clearly, much more research needs to be

done.  In any case, decisions on this criteria should

not be based on acute impacts,such as fish kills

which only show gross water quality deterioration.

          It is not clear to us from Criteria 7 who

and what is and will be eligible for a waiver.  We

feel that an applicant should be allowed no increase

or relocation of their discharge from the time they
                                          i
apply for a waiver.  The cumulative impacts of grant-

ing more than one waiver in an area should be

evaluated as part of Criteria 4.

          Puget Sound has several major municipal

dischargers.  Granting them all waivers could result


in  excessively high chronic pollutant loadings.


All potential applicants should be evaluated  in

relation to each other and  to other oollutant sources

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                                                      307






 1   in the area.  This could perhaps best be  accomplished



 2   through the statewide 208 planning  program.




 3             Industry is still pushing  for waivers




 4   similar to 301 (h), as evidenced by  a February 2,




 5   1978, letter to the editor of  the "Seattle  Post-




 6   Intelligencer" from ITT Rayonier, which complained




 7   of unequal treatment by Congress of  cities  and




 8   industries.  We would not want  to see poor  planning




 9   lead to cumulative impacts and  dangerous  precedents.




10             Related to this concern,we  feel  that




H   absolute quantitative limits,  in pounds per year  or




12   a similar measure, for toxics  discharged  to marine




13   waters are needed.  Given the  unknowns of  bio- and




14   physical accumulation, toxic loadins  must  be limited.




15             We interpret Criteria 8 and other statements




15   by EPA to mean that the water  quality goals in the




17   Clean Water Act come first.  page 75  of Metro's




lg   regional sewage EIS says:




19                 "Virtually all of the  Metro




20        Puget Sound beach and offshore  stations




2i        failed to meet the state  fecal  coliform




22        standard for commercial shellfish waters




23        in 1976."




24             For Metro to be granted a waiver from




25   secondary treatment under such  conditions  seems  to  us

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                                                      308
 1   to  be  a  radical  shift from the direction of the Act.


     Reaching the  water quality goals of the Act must come


 3   first.


               The announcement from Region X concerning


     this  hearing  paraphrases Senator Edmund Muskie,


     Chairman of  the  Senate Environmental Pollution


     Subcommittee, which drafted the recent amendments:

 D
 0                "He intends that, if there are
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       any doubts about the necessary level of


       wastewater treatment, it should be


       resolved on the side of water quality


       protection."


            We concur with that judgment.


            Thank you for your consideration and


  patience.


            We will be submitting further testimony  in


  written form, and I would be happy to respond to


  any questions.


            CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank you, Ken.


            With respect to your first set of questions,


  the materials that will be generated following  this


  meeting will be made available to those people  that


  have appeared as witnesses and others who have


  indicated special interest in this.  So you will  have
i

  many additional opportunities

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                                                      309






 1             Thank you.



 2             MR.  ENSROTH:   Thank you.




 3             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank you for your




 4   patience.




 5             MR.  ENSORTH:   Certainly.




 6             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Wilson Fieberling of




 7   the City of Santa Cruz.




 8             MR.  WILSON FIEBERLING:  My name is Wilson




 9   Fieberling, Director of Public Works of the City of




10   Santa Cruz.




11             I have made some small changes in the




12   written text and in light of the prior testimony and




13   in the interest of brevity.




14             Ours is a small seacoast city of 38,000




15   people, about  75 miles  south of San Francisco, on




15   the north  shore of Monterey Bay.




17             Our  present outfall is a half-mile long,




13   discharging into 40 feet of water. The planned




19   extension  is about two  and a half miles long,




20   discharging into a hundred feet of water.




21             Now,  this may sound similar to you.   You




22   heard earlier  from the  City of Watsonville,  which




23   is about 25 miles south of us, the only difference




24   being that our discharge is actually into the open




25   ocean rather than into  the center of Monterey Bay;

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                                                      310






 1   another difference being  that  our  city  is  somewhat




 2   more residential in character,  somewhat  less  industrial




    waste.




              Our  treatment plant  has  been  selected  as




    a regional  facility to provide sewage  treatment  for




    most of Northern Santa Cruz  County,  and  the  consolida-




    tion program is eliminating  two outfalls into




    Monterey Bay.




              Our  present daily  flow is  about  ten million




10   gallons per day, and  the  plant is  capable  of  producing




11   21 million  gallons per day processing.




12             We are completing  a  two-year  $1.3  million




13   201  facilities plan study.   Included in  this  study




14   was  a  $470,000 oceanographic investigation,  which




15   was  very complete. The results of  this  study  show




16   conclusively that  advanced primary treatment  effluent




17   conforming  to  the  California Ocean Plan  will  have




18   no harmful  effect  upon the ocean.




19              I  have  the  following comments  to make  on




20   the  questions  raised  in  your public notice.




21              First  of all,  the  application of state




22   water  quality  standards.




23              We believe  it  is  only reasonable that  state




24   water  quality  standards  apply rather than the BOD5




25   suspended  solids  and  pH  parameters.  The latter

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                                                      311





 1   parameters  are meaningless  when  measured  in  ocean




 2   water  after  dilution  has  occurred.




 3              I  would  like  to expand on  the point  of




 4   state  involvement.  The State  of California  has




 5   already  meticulously  considered  the  effects  of waste




 6   discharge  on the environment.  The  comprehensiveness




 7   of  research  completed and the  regulatory  process




 8   far  exceeds  that undertaken in any  other  state or




 9   at  the national  level.




10              In developing its Ocean Plan, California




11   has  provided almost all the criteria needed  for




12   establishing grounds  for  waivers in  the state.




13   Coupled  with adequate monitoring and enforcement




14   programs,  the application of the Ocean Plan  to each




15   discharger will  result  in adequate  environmental




16   protection.




17              The second  is the definition of "balanced,



18   indigenous population."




19              We think it unwise to  come up with




20   universally applicable  definitions  about  health of a




21   population.   Some  latitude should be given to  the




22   regional boards  in applying this criteria on a case-




23   by-case  basis.   A  distinction should be  made between




24   existing discharges  and new discharges.   Criteria




25   for existing discharges must be  devised which  reflect

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                                                      312





 1   the fact that  the biota may  already  have  been




 2   disturbed  in the vicinity  of  the  outfall.




 3              In the case  of Santa  Cruz,  an  inadequate




 4   outfall  is  being replaced with a longer  and deeper




 5   outfall  at  a new location.   In  this  case,  we have




 6   the opportunity to  conduct predischarge  monitoring




 7   to carefully quantify  the  "before"  state.   Certainly,




 8   the "before" state  must be the  best  definition  one




 9   can provide of a "balanced,  indigenous  population."




10              It should be the point  of  comparison  for




11   post-discharge studies to  determine  if  significant




12   deleterious changes take place.




13              If changes occur,  the permit  can be  revised




14   and appropriate enforcement  actions  taken.




15              As an example of the  complexity of  these




16   monitoring programs,  we attach  the  Santa Cruz  program




17   for its  proposed new outfall.   It's  oriented  to




18   sampling both  the  soft and hard bottom  ocean




19   environments,  and  is quite extensive.




20              As a measure, we plan to spend $290,000 on




21   predischarge monitoring alone.  Post-discharge




22   monitoring could considerably exceed this amount,




23   depending  on the program  length.   This  is over  and




24   above the  $470,000  that we have already spent  on the




25   predesign  field studies.

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          In sum, we ask for consideration of effects




on a case-by-case basis, recognizing individual




differences in quantities of discharge, locations




and environments.




          And on the .question of "Toxic Pollutants:




Should they be no higher than in secondary effluents,"




the proposal that toxic pollutants be no higher than




in secondard effluents  is unworkable.  What secondary




effluent will serve as  the point of comparison?




          A better approach would be to define the




levels of toxic pollutants that cause harm and




then control to that standard.  This is the approach




in California's Ocean Plan criteria.  Any other




criteria may provide too little protection or cause




costly treatment to be  implemented in cases where




toxic pollutant levels  are too low to be of concern.




          The question  of pretreatment programs,




requiring agencies to implement new or more rigorous




pretreatment or source-control programs prior to




application is not tenable. Y/hy have cities and




local businesses spend  great sums on source control




prior to knowing whether a waiver will be granted?




          A more reasonable approach would be to




require these programs  as a permit condition with  an




appropriate compliance  schedule at the time a waiver

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                                                      314






 1   is granted.




 2             On  the question of waivers  for  only




 3   domestic wastes versus mixed municipal/industrial




 4   waste, attention should be placed  on  specific




 5   substances  in  the waste stream  that could cause




 6   environmental  harm,  as required by Section  301  (h)




 7   of the Amendments.   There should not  be  an artificial




 8   distinction between  wastes of the  same  type  based  on




 9   simplistic  assumptions about the source  of the wastes




10   entering the  sewer system.




11             For  example, food processing  wastes, such




12   as those found in the Santa Cruz waste  stream, are




13   high  in degradable organic material but  relatively




14   free  from toxic substances.  Such  industrial wastes




15   could be governed by the same requirements that




16   would govern  domestic wastes from  Santa  Cruz.




17             Again, we  believe California's  Ocean Plan




18   speaks to the  parameters of concern and  to the require-




19   ments of Section 301 (h).




20             We  refer you to the extensive  201  facilities




21   planning and  oceanographic work conducted by Santa




22   Cruz  in support of its decisions,




23             Draft copies of our Reports 1  and 2  have




24   been  forwarded to Mr. Bill Helphingstine of the  EPA




25   and are incorporated into this  testimony by reference.

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              We have  taken a very analytical  and




    quantitative look at the problem and make a sound




    case for the application of Ocean Plan  criteria  for




    treatment level and discharge.




              Finally, I would like to  repeat something




    that has been expressed before by the representative




    of the Coastal Commission and others.




 8             We feel that some consideration should be




 9   given in the regulations concerning the quantity of




10   discharge.  The discharge of a hundred  million




11   gallons per day in the Los Angeles  Bight may be




12   considerably more significant than  approximately




13   five percent of that amount in the  entire Monterey




14   Bay and into a similar ocean environment.   We think




15   that, in considering your regulations,  that




16   particular point which has been made by several




17   speakers should be considered.




18             Thank you.




19             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank  you, Wilson.




20             Any questions?




21             MS. FRIEDMAN:   I have none.




22             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Warren Nute,  representing




23   J. Warren Nute, Inc.




24             MR. J. WARREN  NUTE:  Warren  Nute,




25   consulting engineer  in San Rafael.   We  are  in the

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 1   field of sanitary  engineering,  mostly  in  this  area




 2   and the Northern California  area.




 3             We  appreciate  the  opportunity  to  comment




 4   on the modification  of  the secondary  treatment




 5   requirement for marine  discharges.   It  is not  clear




 6   from the notice, however, whether  the  proposed




 7   modification  applies  only to existing  deep  marine




 8   discharges or will also  apply to  new  or  planned  out-




 9   falls and treatment  facilities.




10             Also, consideration should  be  given  to




11   the  cases where we  have already  constructed  or  have




12   in operation  secondary  treatment  plants  with  costly




13   outfalls.  If the  secondary  treatment  requirement




14   is to be modified, should not these  plants  be  allowed




15   to operate only part  of  the  plant  units  and thus




16   benefit from  lower operating costs?




17             In  planning future facilities  we  would




18   suggest that  the dischargers be given  the option of




19   installing primary or intermediate treatment  with  a




20   deep-water outfall or full secondary  treatment with




21   a  shallow water discharge or, as  an  alternate,




22   disposal through a natural overland  flow system such




23   as a wetlands which  would benefit  wildlife before




24   entering the  marine  environment.




25             This  latter method would meet growing

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    public concerns that reclaimable fresh water from




    secondary treatment facilities is being wasted to




    marine waters through costly outfalls.  In addition,




    it meets the objectives of Section 101 (a) (2) of




    the Act which calls for the protection and




    propagation of fish, shellfish, and wildlife as well




    as recreation.




 8             As an example of a low-cost system meeting




 9   these objectives, I have submitted an article  from




10   the January, 1978,  California Water Pollution  Control




11   Association Bulletin describing our wetlands project




12   near Martinez utlizing secondary treated  effluent.




13             This project is designed for the benefit




14   of wildlife.  And the flow, after it  goes  through




15   the marsh,  flows  into the slough after it  goes into




16   the Carquinez Straits and provides the aquatic




17   animals that live in the marshes food for  the  down-




18   stream fish and wildlife.




19             It's a  tremendous birding area.   It's  the




20   best birding area of all of Contra Costa  County,




21   and I would invite  these folks  from Washington,  if




22   you have time, not  to miss  it.   I would be glad  to




23   take you over and show it to you.




24             We have always been  concerned with  the  Ocean




25   Plan since, in requiring disposal by  dilution  in

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 1   deep marine waters, no consideration  has  been  given

 2   to the quality of effluent being discharged.   In  other

 3   words, even waters  treated to  drinking  water standards

 4   would require the deep water outfall  and  diffuser

 5   system.  This may be because outfalls were  originally

 6   designed for disposal of raw sewage  and the textbooks
   i
 7   made no allowance for high quality  treated  effluents

 8   from modern plants.

 9             We support your efforts  in  bringing  about  a

10   modification of  the requirements which  will not

11   only provide reasonable and necessary protection  of

12   the marine environment but will be  cost effective

13   by eliminating the  need for costly  and  often redundant

14   facilities.  We  suggest however, that the waiver  be

15   made applicable  to  both existing and  planned

16   facilities.  In  addition, we would  like to  see this

17   type of approach applied to plants  on bay or

18   estuarian waters.   In such waters  we  recommend full

19   secondary treatment but feel that  costly  deep  water

20   outfalls are not only unnecessary  but waste

21   reclaimable water to the marine environment.   Greater

22   benefit can be provided to natural  ecological  systems

23   through discharges  of this fresh water  source  to

24   shallow waters,  sloughs and marshes bordering  the

25   estuary.

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 1             Thank you.




 2             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  Thank you, Mr. Nute.




 3             Any questions?




 4             MR. DE FALCO:  No.




 5             MS. FRIEDMAN:  No.




 6             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  And our  last witness,




 '   I believe, unless there are still some  volunteers,




 8   is John Chapman, representing  the City  and  Borough




 9   of Sitka, Alaska.




10             MR. JOHN CHAPMAN:  Thank you.




11             I'm sorry  I  don't have a prepared,text.   If




12   you need one, I would  be happy  to get  one typed up.




13             I'm with Tryck,  Nyman & Hayes, consultants




14   in Anchorage, Alaska,  and  we are assisting  the




15   Cities of Sitka and  Kodiak currently  in developing




16   wastewater collection  and  treatment projects.  We




17   have not assisted the  City of  Petersburg.




18             In case anyone misunderstands, I'm  not  say-




19   ing that Petersburg  would  be any more happy today




20   had we helped them.




21             Typically,  the cities that  we have  been




22   involved with in Alaska, coastal cities, have no




23   unified  sewage  collection  systems.  They generally




24   have anywhere from  six to  twenty or  twenty-four




25   individual raw  sewage  outfalls discharging  anywhere

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1   from above high tide to below low tide.




2             I think a deep outfall would be considered




3   by any of these communities to be an unqualified




4   improvement.  And in this case of Sitka and Kodiak,




5   raw sewage has been discharged into the receiving




6   waters since the years 1802 and 1786, respectively,




7   and many of those communities contend, in all




8   sincerity, that no problems have ever occurred.




9             The point of this is certainly not  to




10   debate the need for treatment.  I think that  that's




11   been debated enough.




12             The main point I think is that, if  you




13   were to  tell any of these cities at this time, who




14   are now  in the process of constructing treatment




15   plants in deep water outfalls, and  not only  that,




16   but very expensive interceptor systems and pumping




17   systems, that their plants or their projects  don't




18   qualify  for waivers from secondary  treatment  because




19   they are going to involve new outfall  locations,




20   they would very strongly feel that  you are playing




21   games with  them.




22             Another point  is  that  it  really  is,  as  I




23   think you have probably  been  made  aware  of  today,




24   difficult to  convince  many  communities  that  any  sort




25   of  treatment  is necessary.   We  are  working  on this.

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    Region X is working on this. The State of Alaska.




2   But they need to feel that you really do have a




3   real appreciation for their problems.  It will make




4   it easier for all of us, not only in the political




    arena today, but in getting them to operate and




    maintain their plants in an effective way.




7             I don't think anybody really ever will




8   expend enough effort in Alaska to operate plants as




9   well as they might be in any case.  Well, to  the




10   best we can.  I think it's all very well to say




11   that cities must monitor a representative segment




12   of  marine biota and that discharges must not interfere




13   with the state-mandated water quality levels.  But




14   I  think it's been illustrated quite  clearly today




15   that studies to justify waivers, especially coupled




16   with the necessary monitoring requirements  following




17   the granting of waivers, can be, for small  communities,




18   as expensive as secondary treatment, or  there is  a




19   difference  certainly between a primary  and  secondary




20   treatment.  And concern with the cost of  secondary




21   treatment  is really  the reason we  are here  today.




22              Cities really can't afford to  undertake




23   studies of  this sort  to determine  the requirement




24   for secondary  treatment unless  it's  possible  at




25   some   point  to  fairly  precisely  define  what the  scope

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 1   of the studies must be, what  the  scope  of  the




 2   monitoring program must be.




 3             And this point  is before  the  studies  are




 4   undertaken,  I feel.   I think  if we  come to you  and




 5   say, "Sitka  is going  to apply for a waiver from




 6   secondary treatment;  we are going to conduct  current




 7   meter studies at  these locations, we are going  to




 8   conduct diffusion studies  at  these  locations, we  are




 9   going to develop  a model,  we  are  going  to  predict




10   dissolved oxygen, we  are  going to predict  whether or




11   not we are going  to get settlement  of solids  and  the




12   DO  is going to be at least four  or at  least  five,"




13   that in all  fairness,  EPA  should  be prepared  to say,




14   "If this is  the way it turns  out, then, yes,  you




15   will get your waiver."




16             At that point you should  be able to give




17   us a yes or  no.




18             Now, I  realize  that it  may not be a totally




19   unqualified  yes or no.  But we need to  know where we




20   are going because, as I said  before, the costs  of




21   studies are  not something  that can  be ignored by  small




22   cities.




23             I  concur that  it may be a problem to  find




24   representative major  marine biota.   In  the case of




25   Kodiak, certainly crab is  about the best known  major

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 1   marine biota,  and  in  some  years,  crabs  are  abundant




 2   in the Kodiak  area  and  in  other   years,  you can't




 3   find any,  and  no one  knows why.   At  least  I certainly




 4   don't, and most of  the  marine  biologists don't  know




 5   exactly where  they  go or why.




 6              I'm  sure  that we can find  some marine biota




 7   that would be   representative  indices.   But to  find




 8   them and  obtain the data necessary  to establish the




 9   baseline  levels is  going to take  longer than until




10   September of  1978.   They are not  going  to make  it




11   by then.




12              I  certainly concur that water quality




13   studies should be  geared to the  size of the community,




14   I  certainly  concur  that EPA and  states  should




15   consider  participation  in  the  cost  of water quality




16   studies.




17              I  disagree with  the  suggestion of one




18   witness today  that  we should consider areas where




19   there  are no  outfalls as  the baseline for determining




20   the  acceptability  of the  effects of outfalls.  That




21   seems  to  me  to be  saying  that  we are going to allow




22   no degradation,  and I think that's unrealistic.  I




23   think  it  fails to  comply  with  the intent of the




24   original  law that  allowed  secondary treatment.  It




25   certainly fails to comply  with the intent of this

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                                                      324






 1   waiver provision.




 2             I think the requirement  for  the  discharge




 3   of heavy metals, certainly that has  to  be  monitored,




 4   and there should be a water  quality  criteria




 5   established. But we do have  many  communities  with




 6   essentially domestic sewage  that  do  not contain  high




 7   quantities of heavy metals and other toxicants.




 8             I disagree with  the statements of  several




 9   witnesses that  secondary treatment should  be  a base-




10   line  for this type of discharge.   I  feel that the




11   primary treatment, if it's allowable for the  other




12   parameters, should be allowable  for  toxic  materials




13   also.




14             I would be happy to answer any questions




15   you might have.




16             CHAIRMAN JORLING:  That wraps up the




17   witness list.   Before we close,  I think it might be




18   appropriate to  compliment  the reporter for his




19   ability to sit  this  long.




20             And something  I  should  have done,  probably




21   when  more people were here,  is  to thank the staff




22   for the work  they have  put into  this,  and will




23   continue  to put into  it.   Lisa  Friedman and Bob




24   Bastion,  Don  Baumgartner  and all  the rest deserve --




25   Tom O'Farrell,  he's  Chairman;  he  doesn't need thanks

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                                                      325






 1    to  thank  them  because  they  have done a tremendous




 2    amount  of  work,  and  it's  the  kind of thing necessary




 3    to  make this become  public  policy.




 4              So with  that, we  will conclude this formal




 5    part  of the presentation.




 6              The  record will be  open for 15 more days;




 7    and at  that time,  or probably before that time, we




 8    should  be  issuing  draft materials which will then be




 9    circulated prior to  publication of the proposal in




10    the Federal Register.




11              So let's break  for  the evening.




12              Thank  you.




13              (Whereupon,  the public meeting concluded




14    at  6:30 o'clock  p.m.)




15                          	oOo	




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                                                   326


          STATE OF  CALIFORNIA     )
                                   )  ss.
CITY AND COUNTY OF  SAN FRANCISCO  )

          I, THOMAS R.  WILSON, hereby certify  that  the

proceedings in the  Public Meeting on the Modification

of Secondary Treatment Requirement, held at  the

Offices of Region  IX,  U.S.  Environmental Protection

Agency, 215 Fremont Street, San Francisco, California

94105, on February  22,  1978,  were taken down in  short-

hand by me, a Certified Shorthand Reporter and a

disinterested person at the time and place therein

stated, and that  the proceedings were thereafter

reduced to typewriting under my supervision  and

direction.

          I further certify that I am not of counsel  01

attorney for either or any of the parties to the said

proceedings, nor  in any way interested  in the  event

of this cause, and  that I am not related to  any  of

the parties thereto.

          IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto  set my

hand and affixed  my seal of office this 25th day of

February, 1978.
        OFFICIAL SEAL

      THOMAS R. WILSON
      NOTARY PUBLIC - CALIFORNIA
        PRINCIPAL OFFICE IN
       SAN FRANCISCO COUNTY
My Commission Expires February 28, 1978
NOTARY PUBLIC  in  and  for the
City and County of  San  Francisco
State of California

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