Acme Reporting Company
Official Reporters
8S2S Colesville Road
Silver Spring, Maryland 20910
(301) 588-5288
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SjTbsbs OonZexenGQ
Bsid by;
GLEM 8CHHSX3&SR., .
Bir«ci*.or
Office of Toxic Sv^Btanec# and Ch&Zm:\K of
ETA Task Force oa Vinyl Chloride
.
Visitor?o Causer Theatar
EPA Bttildirsg
'•Jeshio^tovE, D. G.
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I R 0 C 1 B D I H G 3
M8U SCmxm&: I'm the Head of tin, Office of
Toxic Substances of KM and also the Ghalnajan of the
Agency-wide Task Force on Vinyl Chloride that was eafcab-
lished by the AdtaJ-nistirator about snven or eight weeln; o„
The purpose of this particular meeting with
press is to provide you with an interim report on EP<.
activities to date re later, to vinyl chloride and polyvinyl
chloride.
We though!; that: s icto. a session would be appropri-
ate in view of the widespread public interest in this
area* We don't have any dramatic announcements or definitive
findings to report. We do have some general preliminary
observations# te do have some preliminary findings that
i?3 will report to you, b'xt orciaarily, we vow.M not have
had such a session with the press at this stage„ but in
view of the widespread public interest, we thought it would
bo useful at: the present ticve,
I will talk for a few minutes, trying to
auwraarise 'the highlights of where we are and hitting
particularly those items which appear to b>. of .iter-set to
the press and then we will 1>e or-spared to respond to
qui-utioas* havix-p; in the fccon- some of the key paople ti'at
have been working on the problem &md they will be prepared
to help isie out.
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Vv £><./. lx¦' , ;yO;x o.. .. • .
sr.; 3©t forth 'la 'p;:.:ss& • U'.eh Lv: - .sin "SI;*'.
to all of you Issu not g;¦¦'av- to rat? -sfr ;"::i to. -
Our ti-Katahl* la row.jbly to :i'iai&h t: : sz
preliminary tas&s ¦'ichia sfcoufc te-o a&ntfcws m>.t5 i.:o a
report early this *u& ar. T...;: report would foe^sfcilly
,'ioses the soagnitude of the problem as seen te the* EPA
vantage point, and to determine or racoianead what coursed
of action* if any* are Expropriate by. EPA to- rcdf.ce at.«y
rick associated with the ttaairofacrare* use or dtecrlbutic-
of vlny chloride, polyvinyl chloride and related chemicals.
^e are citrrently consulting a wide variety of
interested groups -> including industry, public interest
group© cud other agencies, I think the other agencies $*-'¦
wall known, to you* FQk* 08 34., HIOSM* Consumer Products
Safety Corosdssion arid the various research ansa of tht
Department' of 1;EW.
We have Identified five specific areas of intar^DK,
which I will talk a 3-11tic ''sit about and we'll take
specific questions in those areao of interest, rod we*11
also he happy to ventre into oeher areas if *;e have any-
tihuseful ;;o sa^.
X would like to repeat at the outset* hora-vc?., t'-yit
our ::iiidir«gs right aow are preliminary, 'Some r»v w ;¦ v -v:5 ¦
*5® Ml be talking about are very prelfor.aary and so 1 c*.utica
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to put appropriate caveats a-round these numbers. It aaay
tit 11 be that you'll cone br.dk and talk to SPA a weaV. frc;i
icw and we will have another aet of nurbers or another
set of findings and so forth.
We're at a very preliminary stage but *?e want to
share with you what we have to share.
First area of concern to us, obviously, is the
health area, or the health and environmental effects area,
the impact of vi.it.yX chlorides and poly vinyl chlorides on
human health and environmental quality,
We don*t reality have any new data to report beyond
that which is pretty much available in the public domain,
largely reported in the CStIA hearings.
On the toxicology side, the two principle ongoing
efforts are the continuation of the Italian experiment, and
'i think the information is available on the various dosages,
the various animals being fed through inhalation, for one
earpe rin^nt through congestion, all part of vinyl chloride.
On the U.S« side the Manuf&ccuring Chemists
Association have had underway, for seven or eight months a
toKicolcgical testing program invol*Ang the amount of
1800 - mixta is, or so, to be tested on three levels, through
inhalation aid vinyl chloride is the particular suspect
agent that we are concerned with,
There seems to be pretty good evidence that
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-r' ; : i >7^7: carnJiT. & carta.tu kind off live :anee?, a rare
v ' . or; ¦.
4 H( ~#ever, ¦:<:& can not completely dismic-j the
3 o£ otlier chemicals although the evidence sees*
© ; to be pretty parsuan £vg but at the sor.a time we are
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concerned «l£:h oth-i* potential cheaiicals riiicfa »igHt oitl?::
ft con-ributary or actually the idttalological agent.
§> On the epidemiological side, this has, as 7 on
^ knou3 been reported the correlation be tureen workers and
l * VC plants and this rare form of liver cancer.
ȣ !-?e have taken one c tep 5 specifically, we have
JS urged indtsstry, meeting; i?ith industry on Tuesday, x urged
H industry to give rare attention to the adequacy of the
•5 tox-.cological testing program directed to viny'l chloride
v$ with ^peer'Uie er^hasis 00 the lower level, lower concentra-
¦ f tipn levels, and we urged industry to teke a harder look
IS at the tD/ricologicaX testing corraansurate with the
<9 commercial importance and the widespread its® of vinyl
•p-° chloride*
^ Secondly, we have urged industry to release and on
34 a systematic basis, any epidemiological date they have
^ fektiflg to viny chloride ox* otf-er related chc^icaly.
Ke know that industry has ,^a*ay progr xae to chsck
out thvir worker i*> m -rarit-ity of plantsB and it;, tha yew-:
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inertia has always or of ten prevented or inVbited release
| of that data into the public literature.
Vie are aware of some cases where -his kinci of
data has been released and we've urged industry to take
a greater effort to break lose whatever epidemiological
data it has new or collects in the iraciadiate future. v?&1 re
talking here about individual companies, not the KCA effort
which will be public, but the individual company.
The second area of concern, which is reflected on
this chart up here hae to do with the material balance;at
the I'ilOSH hearing several months ago, it was reported that
sisc percent of VOPVC is lost in the polymerisation process
and that, obviously has been a ma jor concern to us.
?/7e have done a preliminary assesment o:: what yor
might call a typical plant, no particular plant, but a
particular, or typical process. We've picked the process
which accounts for SO percent of P?C> the suspension process,
arid we've tried to identify what point in the process in
there leakages in the environment of VC and ?VC.
And, you see on here the various plfces whre the
VG and the PVC is coming out into the environment. I won't
go through the derails, but we can if you like, but the
significance of the conclusions is as follows; the six
percent number which was cited in the SJIOSH hearings seems
to us not to be an unreasonable number. The number we
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t-: val:.7> iU; . t: ' five ^ercojai:, It .. :*st b' h •-
pir«ent under **>re elrcu^-stoneer... but sis: pazesnt *"oc.3 net
©esm to be an tmraatieaaMe i^aaber on a preliminary cr.tiaaia
lu -3 thatj also.
Our &stlmteu are that about three quarter® i»£ tluu.
T Into the o^irmusaat tr leakage in the :£o*u of
I vinyl chloride sea. The other twenty-five percent iq in
ti,.:- form e:-: PV€ Xossaa.
Tha o::.e point of cos.ccrn is If you take the total
iSKOtiiatt of VC an<5 FL?0 t^u*£ac tared > it*« a big -.taisber*
Ece, «&atls the total ivmhat? Six percent
what?
MR. G^vRRLiTT: Last year it was 5% billion pounc^
a year.
MR* SCS?*$r£2E3Sls It's a bi?$ ntorrber~
QUESTION: Founds of what?
MR. SCrJEITZSR: Of FJC iv.siao. Well, 97 percent
of Ti^ VC so.-« into the. TC,
f QUfSS^IOU; Ifea, bat what ie the amount, being used
oo v*a can :?ake a calculation of how much pounds o£ VC arn
factually used?
KR. CAE3OT: Multiply it, 5% biUio.i by 1. .
ML SOJSjEIX^ER; Or if you faat to knot? ho... wucjh
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VC is escaping, you take 4,9 percent of I-vC is • -.ovv r-
VC is escaping,.
Once agaia, it's © preliminary calculi lion, I
think the significant point is that whether it's 4.2 or
4»1 or 3,8j it's in the ball park as a big number.
I'm not going to go through the various escape
places other than to say that our estimates are that half
of it escapes during the polymerisation, the opening and
cleaning of the polymer kettle.
It's roughly a little over three percent escapes
in the fom of VC gas during the polymer operations. It's a
batch operation and you have the problems of starting and
stopping and cleaning cut and so forth.
I say. i:hic is typical. Undoubtedly, there are
plants that have saueh more escape rates, but this :1s —
the point that X'si trying to make is this is the ballpark
we're talking about.
'•/he third area of concern to us has to do with
the escaping* obviously, and we have done our first air-
water moritoring, He have the first results, we can report
our first results today with the cooperation of the
B.F. Goodrich plant in Louisville, a team of EPA people
from our Atlanta regional office did conduct a water r..ad
air sampling in the vicinity of the plant about two
weeks ago.
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did fcs»B water, asw* .from the 2Iot to the 28fch we did the t\i~c.
SC5'^..TrrJ£Kfc: fcte do have the nmbars tl*z
w€* ean give yens i.», detail* i£ you lilce, on the crater and
air n tudy,
On. the eraiter sffltx-nc- ;, we did sample the vai Loita
atresia* Stm thi. plant, Actually there are too Isnts; :rc*
VC -:»lant3. 3te ' hot eorwritt
£81. MQIEtf: Yea.
MH. SCHWSJ.l'ZER: Wa checked the -various water
affluent streams. The highest lowel* ranged ft*an *&>«. tc
.^.•.••vciv; parts per arflUoa in affluence.
Is that correctj George?
•MR. BS01K8: That5s correct;.
MR, SCHt/SrrZER: e£vo to three parte per million
'.T! water affiance in one stream. I'hat was only in
oj?.e stream. The other streams were far lower.
Also, ..here wera significant levels ia Lho s&d&a.
We did check the sludge. Hi don*t know the significance of
two to three pares per • million in water, or similar lava Is
in sludge. |?e don't know the persistence. Ha don't kr
if it will stay or dissolve in -the water within three hours,
six lours or •'.•hat:.
The only expoxtoeftf tfeat we1 re amvr of is ap
sxpevlment conducted dy industry, 'cite results reported ti>
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us suggests that vinyl chloride remains in water only in
the order of a couple of hours, *?e have no confirmatory
or contradictory evidence. We. just don't ?mow how fast it
escapes from the water.
The air sampling, we were unable to do a stack
sailing because there was something like 130 stack in
the plant vuhich co-aid conclave ably vent vinyl chloride
in addition to venting vinyl chloride through the windows,
through vents, whatever, life have the man right here in
the audience who did the air sampling if you have questions.
But, we were unable to launch, at least in the
time £rasne, a stack sailing program. He may consider that
in the future but we did try ambient sampling around the
plant and we sampled, I guess, principally in. the range of
about three quarters of a mile from the plant.
We did run as far as three iail.es from the plant.
Three fourths of the sites that we sampled, we did not
detect vinyl chloride because it was below the. limit of
detection. One quarter of the sites where we sampled ware
in tha range of one to two, 1 to 2.2 parts per million ill
air, within a quarter of th-^ site.
The levels below that, we jus': couldn't detect
so there was probably vinyl chloride there but we don't
know.
Once again, if there are questions on that, we
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"he man re who did this 88ttpX?.n& •; ho eo:\ < wv: .¦":
specific <£t2estiOTi«, but the se tecve stxtionfi set ^rov;;-. :• ttvi
2'; v.' Js at various ,; ses.
The* wind conditions were variable c?o we don't
fesr-.. iow typical this is, sad once again, it4s a first
•:hort afali:* T&e ¦'btectioa technology is not all tbsis siu'-a
kfc iv'TJi.iXcl be pl&ased to release, what we have with
¦¦¦)'• •. :v.. it tk. "it it*o pr^Ktf&r^ry, And, X wi 1 e.or d *;
we had excellent cooperation £rc® the B.F, Goodrich Company
and they helped very teach with the sailing program antl
•: t- '3 htiva discussed the results with them.
The fourth area of concern is the solid waste
disposal area# with particular reference to the diapooal
of TIC* We are concerned with the large quantity of plast:!
in standard minicip^l waste, or anyklnd of waste, -'..ad JVC's
comprise a significant amount of that'waste.
At the present time, we are tmatrare of any PVC
recycling programs. T.t doesn't seem to bo competitive. 3.x
the? fuel costs go up, it may "because corape :etive but right
nr-w •• e*2Pe unawar-i of any programs to recover rvC or any
•• other fcicds oi: p'laatlcc because, in addition to having to
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separate the elastic® frotu the rest of the waste, you have
to segregate the plastics.
1Kb' aren't aware of any problems of laodfilling.
| . iuaxidflll is fall of At the preterit tSma, i?ava o
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evLienee that there -it-: a prc"'>*lesrt with landfill disposal.
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l?ith regard to ir^taev.'ation of PVC3 the problem
of HCL emissions is well known a:.J is a possible basard to
health and this morning we ware reminded that there may
be problem with soma of the toxic metals fchct are used
as Inhibitors in PVC.
So, fere are investigating this area with sc j.e vigor.
The final area we discussed this morning was the
problem of the use of vinyl chlorides as an aerosol pro-
pellent in pesticides and attached to the press release is
the letter from the Deputy Administrator to the Health
Research Group ; which states more specifically what is
happening,
In effect, we've taken five stops in regard to
the problem of usa of vinyl chloride in aerosol propellents.
wDt: :t go through the letter which spells it out, how many
•nrcK'.acta there were, 1*11 only tell you the specific seeps
that we've taken.
What was the date of the letter, the first letcor?
MR. CU2#m?GS: The 27th.
.'.-It* SOWMXTZESLs On March 27th, we wrote to each
of the knoi^n registrants of — containing V.C., requesting
their concurrence to release the names of their pro-ducts
:!mt had VC in them. Aad, w« said, if w$t don't hear from
you within 10 working days after receipt of this letter, we
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will release the -aas^© of the product*
the 10 working days is not ran its course yet,
and harra not received any answers yet £m& the manufacturer
of these products and bo we have not yet made a determine
atlon whether tre will or won't release.
The profoxcxu hare is that we're getting into
formulation data that vas provided EPA on a confidential
basis" and there are several provisions of the law which
address confidentiality of data., and we are just legally
contained to seek this kind of release before we can release
the. information.
IS the company, one or more, come back End say
no you can't release the name of my product, then we have
to go into the determination of whether it will be released
or not« There*1 s a procedure finder the law for handling that,
We don't anticipate that's going to happen 'but it may happen*
As of right now, we have received no responses but the 10
days, working days, has not rim its coarse*
That*8 the first action. The second action, yester-
day, last evening, we sent telegrams to each of the known
manufacturers of the pesticide which contains a VC propallant
and requested that they voluntarily substitute another
propellent or atop using this product altogether a**d to
Inform us by April 12th if :heyrre going to do that*
He also told them, at that time, on April 12th, we
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will :sr.ke a detr^ailia^ioa as to "hat further steps aire
accessary.
St»# v/-"; ye askecl for voluntary control by April 12th. j
And, the Chi rd thing, we have said that as of
that date we'll make another deteriainaticei as to further
steps, if any,
We have also advised them that we will not
register any new pesticides containing VG as an aerosol
spray, or propellant.
And, finally, we are notifying a massive mailing
list m have of 6,000 people» State officials, other
companies that right 'be interested in this action, and
advising them, similarly, that we are requesting voluntary
withdrawal of all the pesticides containing VC or substi-
tution , and we will not in the future register these kinds
of pesticides containing VC.
X tf;,ink I'll stop there and ask for contents
or questions, X*ve just, tried to skim the highlights over
of the things covered this morning, and ask for
your comments or questions on them or anything we can
help you with.
QjDKSTIOsSf: Are you asking for a voluntary recall
of the products containing VC or are you asking the cxanu-
facturer to voluntarily take the VC out of the product that
they make in the future, after April 12th?
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MgU SCH8EITZS&: iou lore requested to submit an
fsmeadraeat to your registration to provide for a substitute
,!:•:: ¦¦ ¦ L'A' t. ?or >- •. • rl cfe^orive.
In addition, no new aerosol pesticide will be.
accepted for rer tration. Bor.h.
QlffiSTIOK; But, you're not asking for a recall
from the retell shelves of products containing vinyl e'.,lo:.
MR. SCfS^lTKSa: At thin time, no.
QUESTION: *Jr, Schweitzer, Isn't that inconsistent
with the FDA's action of asking i; :o hair spray rmmiactexer?.
to recall their products?
MR* SCHIBITZ5B.; I'm not sure it* a inconsistent.
As I understand, FBA asked for voluntary
compliance by the two heir spray xnaaufaeturers. 1 dont
knot? whet their voluntary comolience request consisted o':'9
if it was simply to stop or to recall.
QCEK-'rlOIi: It nas to recall, and that *s th*;
v?ay the Fl?A wt-rfc3. I.iien the FI& says to voluntary, tShaj
say either you do it or we'll do it for ycu.
MR. SCi«rrZER: Well, our request is diffei-eftn-
frou. the :/i& request, although procedurally, we are both,
dealing «rith olv.ntary compliance rul>..:
QUEST10??: Do you see a lent): level of •
health hazard frojc pesticides as opposed to hair sprays?
m. SCilKEXTSBR; X don't think we've tiled to
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have not tried to assess that. I don't- know — I cat't
answer your question.,
QUESTION: Bo you have the legal mechanism
necessary to initiate a recall on the basis of earned
evidence?
KIL SCH'>B3IXZER: We — as of right now, we
hav:i not considered we have adequate basis for any action
vaore stringent than we*ve taken already, as of right now.
Although., the evidence is very fluid evidence and
we're testing it all the time.
QITEST .OI: But, do you have legal authority, if
you ranted to, to initiate a recall?
MR, SCHWEITZER: If there were a technical basis,
an adequate technical basis for declaring an. eminent hazard,
I guess —what would we do, Joe?
XL CIR-. .4XHG3: Suspension action rould require
a r acall ;
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id cofzico3.o^?x! ~y. is there .Is
250 parts per nillior administered on a sustained basis
over a prolonged period of ti«ie9 there have been tuaors
developed in animals. And, worlters exposed to this over
many years have developed tumors. It's difficult to
correlate that with short versed pesticides uainj used.
QOESTIOK: However, tuniora ere riot the only
hr. sards associated with vinyl chloride.
MR. SCHTSITZER: That*a correct.
QUESTION: l-Iaat about all the other things, such
as cirrhosis of the liver?
MR. SCKv!EXTZER: Do you want to comment on thit,
Wee?
W&* G2JWQM: 1 think one of th* aspects in the
aerosol formulation is not so much as systemic damage that
slight occur* but it is the cardio caustic effects of the
materials used, v: ayj. chloride» along with other elsloriii&ted
materials can cause the phenomenon known as cardiac *.:ytb?3ia
' and possible deatf: » if you inhale it uad- •-<•• coacb' itos of
stress or physical or e?aoti^nal stress. That's o.-.a answer.
The question of systemic causes r-v • far greater .
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when it crrcas to a pesticide propel.lant because several
ingredients ere included in the formulation araong -which
are chlorcarbon materials, vinyl chloride in souse foraiulatioas,
and of course, the pesticide, itself, with all of its
farr-rtlatioa ingredients.
M. SGIICSIl'ZSR: Our timetable is to make a
determination as of April 12th, as to whether the steps
we have taken are adequate, whether additional steps need
to be taken* There's a gamut of possible steps that could
fee taken ranging from eminent hazards to cancellation to
voluntary compliance.
QUESTION; You know, it*s rather frustrating to
follow the story because it seems like all the agencies
involved don't quite get their act together,
'.tow, MXCSH says thataH:!itoni,has been able to
eK&rapulsco from Maltoni and produce a tumor at 50 ppzn*
Tfaey*ve be3a able to take the Malnoni evidence ard come up
with a tumor, induce it at a touch lower than 250,
Has there been any high level meeting of the people
involved in this kind of. get together to coordinate?
WL. SCHWEITZER: Yes, VLW has a HErJY TOKicological ¦
committee, which involves the people from the Cancer
Institute, from KIOSH, from CDC* from Mil and they Iv-tvc
had one or store meetings and we hcve -attended those meetings *
QUESTION: Did anything come up or they just met*
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Ration Chv'-v ce v.. out: ȣ that:
&d* Cvtsjft cigala, the BX.CSH people a*e cr-'- •¦• ;.;-:J' ': .-'j
sustained aaposiare ever a iloxsg period o£ tira, *7h:o'j. ;u>ni
has -:ha CAta for, "'•:-r the - fc-otker c^.pvsixre:» \lv.r.z v.r .
. defiling with an. entirely different thing alto,ath(. .. 1
have & short vezee uxid wa don't v--\T\y know hot.; oir
how long a hcwseirlfe. is exposed to it but sje*re obviotisly
concerned about it»
C^'SS^tdUr' Bat, if yon doalt know, ?-vhy don6t you
: with r.;i« oca:-¦:,¦•: \or instead of the industry?
C^MJTXOI-5: I think, ssaybet what you're setting
at is the 7 maflt risk question. There doesn't swm to
be any ijuestion about that doeo there?
MX, SCHJi®lT2ER: I think there's a lot of q^sfcians
abovt the risk, aure.
QUESTION: No, about the benefits as opposed to
the risks 1
; SChrSSHZSt: I think we'll know who?;-..the
ir*mafacfcur&rs -tjcsaa back and say they won'Jj withdraw,
heli re thorv* are reasonable g^/jseitutes* 1 don't
what 4k- cost differential will fci, w ,-i don't knoi' ti-
gs . effect differencial, hat we heli<". i nhafc' this ir
; ja'fc tmcC11.. re--:ue r *;.
. I
." QSESTIOSS: $@1}.. thatc - -re siany ttrodv.stfi that
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have no vinyl chlorides at all lv. the propellante. /..net,
the vinyl chloride in mo^t of these protects only comprises
about 20 parciv.it of the volume of propollants?
MR* GUKMXNGS: That's a maximum.
QUESTION: Is' there any tests been done on these
other propa1lants?
MR. SCHHRlYEERs I'm sure that industry has do>ie
a lot of tasting* From what point of view?
QUESTION: Not hazardous. How many of the other
propellanta am hazardous also? How do you know?
MR. SCHWEITZER: We're unaware of any toxicological
tests done fey industry on vinyl chloride, the toxicologieal
aspects of vinyl chloride used as a propell-ant.
QUESTlOxI: You are unaware?
MR, SCB'/EXTZER: We* re unaware of tests, or any
toxicologic;1*.! testing of vinyl chloride to determine whether
tli;-: k:l d of exposure you would gat from uses of oZ
pestici&ai. propallanta poses a risk to human health.
As X said, one of the things we urged on industry,
early in ivy statement, we raised the whol.e question of
adequacy ©£ toxicologieal testing of vinyl chlorides,
particularly the low levels, tfr.e lower level.
The pesticide quest it n viay he moving in 10 days
if they're ail cancelled*
QUESTION: How significant would you say the
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: . .v:re In .:c;x •'. v;.^er-rr; air old! rator
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MtU SCW;EXI23i&i "X e- •'.«! we've learned a 1c--. -zhouf. •
hw? to do it and how not to do it; but I'd be very
hisitant to generalise on that fragnvmt -y data.
06 you people from Atlanta have any comments. or
that?
MR. • T-lJi'IS: iSo, the de&a is very ^reli^Ifhurj.
The neacfc ttea• we go out $?e* 11 have a different Bet of data,
MR. SCOT1TZER: And, we'll do it Kaieh better.
•'¦ For example 9 I thistle you eaid the tsqwipacmt —
P
we r.-.oula11: use some of our equipment ia the plant because
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cf tto fire' hazard, so we had to use other equipnsec.»j.
tfe don't yet understand the sampling of mooitorlng
until you try it. f?a tried it once and we've given ;vor.
what • r.. foiled the first tine,
Q11SSTX0R: You said a cseasurement wao tcken
three railes froa oae of the plants..
MR. SCH^EXTZER: ton1re talking about air
$ isseasmrejaentG?
Q?r ??5ia::: Ai r ».?.«surer ants.
Did yott find anything connected — any detectable
levels at that distance?
MR. BMTTA75: We took ..he sa^-pla thxtft h&7.o.j
¦ ' r- ' p'la-'.tj , CU3C ':¦ ity. I fiv •:• v. ¦ • . •;»
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We did measure the teehinical concentrations up to a hal<:
a sails away.
MR. SCHWEITZER: A half a mile away or three
miles away?
iR. BRITTAIN: She asked if we measured three
miles away and the answer to that is, yes; but we did not
find anything further away than half a mile.
MR. SCHWEITZER: The farthest distance from the
plant which you detected — this was from the fringe of the
Goodrich plantc from the fence?
ME. BRITTAIM: From the building.
MR. SCHt®rr£ER: 3ut# outside the fence?
MR. BRITTAIN: That's right.
MR. SCHWEITZER: So, the maximum distance from
which you found a detectable level was a half mile?
MB.. BKITTAIN: Righ t.
QUESTION: Have you dona any work on investigating
theclothing on the workers when they go home?
MR, SCH^EXTSSE:. EFA lias not done any work on that,
although it's a fair question. I don't know whether OSHA{s
done anything on that or not, but it's a fair area that
we should be concerned with .
QUESTION: NXOSH has recommended that they leave
the clothing in place,
Have you measured how much VC i3 in FVC products,
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the finished product that the coasusaer may puccta-sai
MR. SCffivEmBR: Ko.
Q0BSXXO3R: Has anybody to your knowledge made
that nseasusrfisaent?
ME* SCmiTSEE: I® Cava here?
Let's cccne back to that when he cameo, I don't
kaow whether he hao an answer or not.
QXJSSTICft: Ian* t it:getting away from the nonaal
person's live, to ray that a woman spraying disinfectant
in her bathroom is only exposed for about 10, 12 or 39
seconds when that same woman may be using hair spray with
vinyl chloride In the morninga is using deodorant with
vinyl chloride sprays c spraying her kitchen for coachroacb.es}
sprayi;:g her dog ox cat, X don't understand the sense
of looking at the one particular exposure because that's
what EPA happens to regulate.
MR. SCHWEITZER: I agree with you, I have nothing
to say but X do agree with you.
QUESTION: Discussing the gross mnnbero of FVC
and ?C production, where does most of this product go3 into
use and to what types of products?
MR. SCWiJSZ:ER: Well, 97 percent of the vinyl
chloride is used t.o make F?C,. and you have the three percent
that cozses out: in aerosol propellents and other uses.
Is your qiiestion^ where is the 97 percent of the
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PVC go, will you answer that Dave?
MSL GARKEVVT: 3y sar, I think the major use Is —
the maj or three uses arc electrical wire iasullation,
floor tiles avid phonograph records.
Possibly, tied for third might be pipe valves and
fittings»
QUESTION: What about plastic containers for
food and beverages?
MR. GARRETT: They're not usually vinyl chlorides.,
they1re -usually polyethylene or polypropylene.
QUESTION: Wasn't it PVC that was used experimentally
for the container for liquor?
MR. GARRETT: B:-zperimanta 1 ly, yes.
QUESTION: Has anybody measured hoc* much PVC is
in the finished product as the consumer receives it?
HR. SCR*3EITZER: Are you aware of any laboratory
experimentation, physical measurements of the unreacted
monC'ier in the finished PVC?
MR. GARRETT: As the consumer receives it?
I*m not aware of any.
QUESTION: You're not aware of any measurements?
MR. GARRETT: Slot as the consumer receives it, no.
MR. SCHWEITZER: If you have any data or is that
jvist a guess?
QUESTION: There are some.
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the ssaatiog* This is eofc bard nusbera and Iw Mich
ifc1s in, it's in the polymer*, bat they raat have dor-5
sense work on it because the maefiiiigTusa^iy, on® 5asa>
talked about coefficients betaken air ai*d the *•. ¦ t for
Mf.U S£S&sSI$2KR: The bast -isfciasate© we har^
. -received freer Industicy la that it-varies somewhere between
200 to 1,000 parts pas? Riilion otc.i»feric4iv'^ :¦•& ti- - pr©ch;.ei;.
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2©.. SQIKRITZrSK: Inclusfcry guess or industry data?
Ctl^TIOH: tnoustry data, but I da*t kaa*? isfeere
they got lt-
HR. SCJSailTKEJl: As the results of an ccsperfc&atti:,
' hot just saying th-t this was a canctaicsi?
QIES7I : I don't kmr*.
2JR. SCB&3UTCZSR: We'd be very happy :o 55at civs
actual experiment became- we hear people saying this all
tb<2 time and you sort of pin th$tc. do-:*n and say how do you
know* and they say lt:s ay educated guess because I*ve
tiHixi in the business for 20 years•
But j «?a;d be. very plea a ad if anybody is aware of
arty actual physical measurassents because m& don*t' tents® of.
any, v?c'Sc asfeed industry the sarae question and the answer
w» get Is, that's our gua.se.
QUESTION: t?hat Is this guess?
' • ¦ ••¦:¦ ' .1
MR. CUi'SSBGS: Taey did give coefficients at
the :-f;-onc»er.
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speeding or. lots of things. Vlasn't skat the r.-.. 1
gave u&?
25R C-ARRF/. 'T: X heard uo niv':>er higher.' than 25C
parts parmillicwi in die consumer product,
MR. SOfi®£TZER: It'was in the P¥C going into i
fabrication place* You take the PVC and you beat it ar.i
heat it and what have you and s lot of it cooj£t> out ,1
As it goes to thv fabricator the xtutsbef "¦•as K'O
to 1,000 parts per million, but then as it goes through t:L
fabrication process where they beat it and they heat £t,
the number goes down significantly and the actual t are-: -¦
monomer in the PVC that reaches the consumer, I rfif'rt 't
hear a .number cw* that one* except that it was signixioai'v:
lass,
MR. GARRETT: It was 250 parts per million or
lees.
QUESTION: But the worker & involved in *rabi:ic€.~v $.
th- are faced with 200 to 1,000?
MR. GARRETT: No, that's not a proper cc-.-¦ "v<<;
The plastic resin will contai 250 to 1,000. X:-: you r.ov. .-
a:V.: t .oro«gh thf.8 fabricating plant, lat*,a s> y, ©si tl--.
'ivorag* of. eiac tfraee an hour, you will be mp&&nd to tt.ss
: van i ..e.rt turn the air ever i.% that plant cNr a iisas
x he ,r ' e : a .¦ . • v;«y of *0
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plastic contains this amount of moaner.
QtTlilS'XXOH: Isn't this another argument for
preimrket testing of eonsuraer products?
MR, SCHWEITZER: I cWt know if itTs an argumant
for preniarket testing, it*s an argument for safety testing
of existing produces„ We have no authority, an you know,
to require, testing of premarket or existing, and IsIX put
a plug in for the Toxic Substance Act, Che Toxic Substances
Control Ac5: if in effect, we would havr- authority on that.
X don't know if we would use it or not., but we would have
authority to require a testing of vinyl chlorides, among
others,
We can require testing of associated chemicals,
a think we feel that the burden for tenting a commercial
chemical reside in industry. But, at the present time,
EPA can encourage that kind of testing, but we have no
authority to require with exception of the pesticides area,
and now we do have authority in a few additive areas, but
in this area, which is really the heart of the toxic
substancess the Bill which has been pending on the Hill for
¦\ couple of years, we don't have that authority as of yet.
But, it*o not a premerket but existing chemical
as well, and vinyl chloride is a very real existing chemical
of maj or dli. sns ion.
QTJESTIOK: I'd like to get back to the difference
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between your agency and ?Z& in tha reqp&sst&ns; of recall;;;*
FMi has the authority v.o request a recall on
tfca. basis o£ sofaeMad o£ evidence, and they have dories so*
Want is Che difference betss^en your jurisdiction and their
jurisdiction that you can not: go ahead and do this right
now?
MR. SGHSJEXT2SR: ¥e are not: legally constrained to j
do it, tmc the. evidence has not been developed —
QDSSTIOK: Xt has been developed to FDA*3
satisfactions but not to EPA's satisfaction?
MR. SCHWEITZER; Two things. One, we're dealing
rlth different products* They're dealing with drugs and
cosmetics applied directly on the skin.
The products weTre talking about is different.
Secondly, the regulatory authority they operate
on is a little different., but the technical data they have
is any different than the technical data «re have and they
way they interpret it, may be different, &nd I*m sure that
varies 'with whoever interprets the data.
Bnt the directions for u&e can?fc ibe
that dissimilar since hair spray cans, X think, caution
against Inhaling the fracas as much as possible.
In the Cosmetics Act, the authority of FRA has to
be&aong the weakest authorities that P~A has right w /.
MR. SCHWEITZER: 1 don't know.
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QU"STX<)2?! It's •-o'c e drug, Lai?- spray isn't:..
MR, SCKSEXT^EE; These tT.ro are not drugs,
but props'ilaats i-rv used ia\Srugs.
QUESTION: Under r?hO0e jurisdiction are the
cans of pesticide* labeled?
MR. SCHWEITZER: Under EM,
QUESTION; Under EPA.
Why is it; that the company's are required to
list the active ingredt&nfcs and the various percentages in
?.:he ;-an, but not the propellent?
MR. SCJSTSrmSRt That has been historical and
we're ,.mt very slowly isoviag &s?ay from that and I think
there are cases now where fee have required putting oa
the; label inert ingredients. Historically, we have only
required active Ingredients on the label,
We had several examples in the last year that
suggests that we have to move away from it and we are
moving away from it-.
Joe, do you have something on this?
ME. CIMSIKCS: Well, the law has been changed
but before the /Heifidfeiaitt of *73, there was an option that if
they didn;t chose to give the percentage of each active
ingredient and each inert: ingredient then they had to
give the total percentage and they had to aaiue these , but if
£tiey used this first statement, they '..ad to name the active
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iAgredtcnt in percentages. They •..;id»!t h&va to ru cr..;
inert ingredients, end this is 8till fit: ruls.
QUESTION; I*sa concerned ?bout the process by
which the constm&r is protected vil X as& this quGStiaxi
respectfully, 'but had it not tsssm, .Cor the Health E&3**,rebt j
Grousp, would you hsve clone (anything at all?
j
K&. SCH82ITSER: lee. Ac soon as it we revealed
that there was a problem,, we were involved right frcsa the
start. My Taok Force was set up before the Health Research
Group, about 10 dayaft before they sent us a letter.
I'm not knocking the Health —- that83 fine., but
it wasnf t the sole impetus for our conc-em ~
OWES* ICS?: A saajor part?
i
MR. SCHKSIT2ER; Bio* because we were in business
before that letter arrived. It contributed to the raoi&en torsi,
no doubt about that*
QW2&T7.QW: In the earns* spirit of the last question;
when would the Task inforoation about the EM action have
become public if the IM? hadn't become involved?
The Task force has not *— the. formulation of the
Task Force had not beer; mad® public at that time, had it?
MR. SC.tliWXT?5KR:- Ho. There was no particular reason
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for withholding or not withholding it. The reasons v«. did
not advertise the Sorption of Task Force -?.fc the stars,
is that we .ware geigainaly at tha starting block tryiog to
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assess what the problem was, a:id we didn't want to ,:ontri"¦>.it -.
to unnecessary concerns or distorted coacems which were
being expressed at that time in a variety of quarters until
'¦m were on better ground of knowing what the dimensions of
the problem ©ere.
So,j, it's clear that the activities of the Health
Research Group did play a significant role is. stimulating
us to share even these very preliminary kinds of thoughts
with you people, there's no question about: chat*
Undoubtedly the interest of the Health 'Research
Group and ether public interest groups, has contributed to
our time table.
I don't think it's fair to say that lad it not
been for the public interest groups we would have been
doing nothing, because 1 think we have moved pretty smartly
even discounting their influence*
fhere 8 no question about it, the pul. lie interest
groups have put a significant role in the pace in which
we're moving and in the — our efforts to put on the table
eyhacever fragme- fcary data we have, recognising v+enever we.
stand here like this, there is a chance that it will be
dis :orted. 7. think it's probably in the public interest to
take that risk of distortion of data rather than not putting
it on the table *
QUESTION: In your contact with the Industries,
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diet anyone tmequivoeably they would cooperate wXi;h : out
. OT&EXTSEft: Vfe've had nothing bet prorrj*.
o5 cooperation fron industry and I have nc iirM.ctttiou
whatsoever. industry will act cooperate ,
tfimt do you mean fry cooperate?
OysSTIOll: Slot ©eking VC»
MB.* SCHWEITZER: '$?e did not consult with industry
on the pesticide issue. v'g consulted with the manufacturer
of. VC and FV€ on Tuesday* life did not «» the pestlride issue
wasn't on the table. Bte did not meet with the speciaIcy
people who 6xe the people responsible for the pes tiaras,
I#i«j sorry, I didn't give you a straight answer.
The pesticide issue *5&s not event discussed in
our consultation with industry because that -«~ we •y.-'r..
talking with the B&anufacturer of VG and FVC.
QUESTION'- When i3 tbat 10 days up"?
MR. SCEK8ITZER: Ten working days after receipt
of the Hotter -and the letter was sent the 27th. Xt7s Aike
the end of next weak. That's for release of the product^
aa©ac cmly, it has nothing to do with the substitution o£
another propellent.
QJJE3TIOH: What was the attitude o£ industry
towards possible need of technology to control, could tela
be possiblyj difficult?
M&t SCHfSXTZSR: I hate io characterise or be ap.
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intermediary and tell you indvnr.ry thirks, They can
do that thawelveef,
I think there is a real concern whether itfs
doable. You have 130 stacks, plus the windows, plus all
these other thirds venting. Can you do it at any cost?
Obviously, people worry about costs, and then
there's the uncertainty of these ambient levels that the
•people from Atlanta detected. Is that a danger to
anybody or not? It's a sort of cost beaefit type o£ thing.
QUESTION: If it ie determined that it is feasible
to institute technological control, then what?
MR. BCE'MTSSEB.: tfeder the Clean Air Act, we have
a whole variety of: authorities» and they range the whole
gamut• ,
The question is of variable level of exposure
r:o a ch«;;kal whi«h has bee.-, shown to probably have
approximately carcinogenic properties of high levels, that's
a very, tough question to address.
QUESTION: But, you have to think of the whole
thing.
Hi, SCtu#JlTZER: I agree, total exposure. I
agree -?ith that*
QUESTION* Ifcen Ci'Bk ai-^nounced that ft "-muhi go
for 50 ppars o:~a-aer*gency level, they said that they wotil
probably go for zero exposure with a permanent standard and
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'-.bey would try to '•-&*¦' that out 'by June •
As 1 ufciermand if., they got to get eoufi inputs
froia you people, which could tafca at least another tr«n*th,.
Is that a realistic timetable?
MR, SCIll'TSITZE'S.: You Jaean environmental Iwpapz
statement?
QGESTI0N; Right.
MR, SCHWEITZER: 1 don't know.
QUESTION: They hops to have promulgated a
permanent standard by June.
MR. SCHHSITZER; I didn't lotos? Chat.
I thought that their first step was a 50 parts
per million emergency standard* I haven*t seer that ir;
the Federal Register* yet.
If there is a standard on a carcinogen, we would »-
just like we consented on the 14 carcinogen hi the workplace^
we would, I presuao, be consulted on this one. T?a do h vs.
views on carcinogens.
QUESTIONS: If you won^t presume with the other
carcinogens* does this change any action you ®aght take
ia terns of regulating the ambient air or water exposure of
the general population? SBoer. that mean that you wftuld insist
on no detectable levels of this in the plants?
m. svmnmm: No, x don'* t think so.
fte haven't really bitten the bull vm that question.
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V; aren't prepared -t» report what our co.e".usione
-re -:o ;::he significant aiiiount of escape.
net havcvvt flgv^ed out how to address that
question in a regulatory mode, or if a regulatory mode
is approprlate«
QUESTION: when you evaluated the health effects
of the cases firort Charleston and the case from Miagara and
the eaaes from Louisville 9 was there ar.y common denominator
in the metallic finders in those three areas?
Yfaa t here any cosmoa denominator in the iaanu~
faccuring process *1
HE. SC ^EITZEH: I don't think we deliberately
addressed the question, Are you saying that the manufacturing
<>ro -ess in the three places are identical, the implication
being that there may foe something other than vinyl ci .ioride
which contributed or accelerates, or what have you?
We have not deliberately looked at that questiona
I think we should look at if: and we haven*t. It's
a good poiiat aud we haven't done it.
QUSSTKSi: Wxo ie doing the epidemilogical study,
is it CDCt
ME, SCHS3EITZER: I don't know what epidemiological
stu.ly you*re referring to,
QUESTION: In th< work placet1
MR. SCIv7SIXZS&j The only one that I*n aware of,
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'* •? ft,
xal ••: :-ho *•£•- v'" i • .• '.a'-
StUdl^#, tfc'CKVfc is- t.'ic ;mU; iV"''vtSCK-
which has coasalseioned a istvjor epidajri*.¦?%?'Jt .
is rmppoooo to be co.*ole.:;o-' ?ja -hn c:'l *
we doa't fesve any idea i-.iiat thu suits were*
QOBSXXC27: Sachs study, ¦:•: mghs praftiisaablyj ^ytM
it* oat vtait ©the"' c * :.:tm dosv.;ni'nato:^.¦:
bcefc. would it not?
¦xt&sgymi no.
"*R. T tbrs^t thlrcd is v/nld.
She study that's being doae by
tx :lu{jtry9 stilly is surveys of «?eo£ti .cert if peaces. iV-r\. •;«
show you the tfassrot^lvasfta of Ueir search, they arete tt sis
as a reporter afikiiw-j about the other • *to esses they i/U'V
know of but that I had published In. tl- •"',* •? c»?or. V
QUI'SXtON? P^rfor»ps9 itr? cue* tic* viorrt irlz-qv.-s/r.&ly
~-yr¦¦.¦•-'¦ ;-d :1 ;.:. :. ; : •> a : , ' : ¦.•¦'¦
study would include th r.t 3.a£oourt:loa, woule it ¦/¦¦¦.>1.1
m. ?:¦:¦&,?';::xz v.I!•••-. ••>orfcz?w3¦ I.
That kh:.d of jthlag Is j>reei3aly th* tcifttf o£
Zhtt s tfer ¦:'¦¦: o'.'teuld d«t«r&dUi&rig v&Btkat- : v.:; ;•/"¦¦ % .o
itount or not.
la •: Federal fctcsisfcov j Seaey* ift that an «;*,/.^©wilo#ica
study?
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QUEST!OK: That vould be contracted out as an
epiclemilogical study. It covers workers a».d vinyl chloride
matrafac turers.
MR. SCHWEITZER: The Congress Business Daily,
there's just bean an announcement of a HI06R study, ©
competitive bid for epidemilogical survey.
QUESTION: Kay asany people at SPA are involved
in work in vinyl chloride problems? How many full elate„ or
how many man hours?
MR. SCUKSHZER: On the Task Force we have about
15 paot}'% X guess. There's about ten peripheral people.
I'd say about 25 people.
Let's leave out headquarters. I'd say there's
pro! .. ).y about 20 people at headquarters who are seized
with the vinyl chloride as a significant part of their
work, of those hardly any are working full tiroe.
Ivaybe, like two people working full time bu«: there
are a uusrber who are working part time*
In the regions, we have every region, everyone
of the 10 EPA regionst is seized with the problem. The
reason why ycrn have represented here the Atlanta Region,,
Region IV has committed the rsost manpower today, but they
were fsst off the block because the Goodrich plant was what
stirred the pot, and that's in the Atlanta region.
I can't give you hovj many man months of effort„
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25
3 a
QUSSIIC. i: X$ ¦ •«y £srso;a spo^:;. 13 irtilX tl u
r;'., ccr .^3.
QOKSTIOKi Eow tsany?
I®. S;®TO: Fj fcave — I he*?® W'.ncy Beach
ok my ofcs££p raho is fall t:5.tss« X '^ness she is the or~ly
person, I7<5 say <#ho was full fclrae.
As Pesticides Officer, Joe, isn't that fall £:>.3;'
MR. C?E303jtGB: I spend full time on the l±&art...
MR. SCIIvIBSJSERj These are Ml time for a tar/nth,
h«it Infancy is specially ca It ttnr.il *je finish the Task
«'
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the assoeiart-fciS chemicals and the other is asbestos*
QUEST!OH: How many products contain or havx.
contain»d vinyl ihloride in the -aropell&nt find ::o . hor * ^
years, any Idea?
HR. SCHIiKXTZER: Mo, but we should find that c ¦: t,
Qt.:5STI0H: .('rid, tftet kind of a range is it, is it
very limited?
MS. SCi&ECTZElfe X don11 know.
In our researching of the data base, we eo-.ld, find
that cut*
MR. CUMMINCS: As a propellent in aerosols, it
goes back to 1962, I believe„
Mft. SCEBSItfcftR: You're tal&Lng abont vinyl
chloride or P7C?
QOESTIOH: Vinyl chloride in v:he propellents.
HR. SCHWEITZER: I don't *now> That's a rood
-amotion. Maybe r:he consumer products petj?le hav;..-- that
answer,
QKKS'JPI.OH: Back to pesticides again, wh-.-n >ou
release your list of brand names for pesticide products,
this will be of twaity-thr;..e registrants or those «'•••- have
cancelled dheir registration white e prodt^.te rill still to-.
on the shelve!??
•»
MR, SCH^Xf&E&t I canr t give you the answer:; bur.
you vade the point .':&at we have to address that in a fc urry.
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i tft - •; h;:van*t i:V. :¦& co 7 . .
You're sayiws -feat ufe© ones than pr&viously
withdrew chculct be on. the list. I xnow.
Joe, did wg go to those five or their authority
to release the*a?
HE. CIESHttHGS: Yes, we did but her question
Koa I'm sorry. Wa -lid ' ;.-o back la a lettsc: to •
five who had either substituted —
MR. SCB&EXTZER: We should.
SOU- Ct3I#IIHC2S: But the question about the produces
tfeat are still o& the shelves will have to addressed.
MR. SC9BB3XZER; But, we should go to tl oea i •¦'
that have already stopped ssarmfacturiug to ssaka sitre. t^y
don't have assy objections to releasing their names.
QUESTtOH: For exaopla, &ady Clairol no logger
uses vinyl chloride in thier 100,000 cans, since a yeas- ar/o.
MR. 8CSBHZSR: W& haven* t done this but v/e ¦•v/iii.
fchis afternoon*
QUES^XOH: Are you aware oif any studies 9 -any
pathological studies on FtfG to see if it is* indeed5 trrwly
iaert?
!¦<&. 8CWXT2?P:E: I'fa - ot sure Irxa the
par.':oh to £aMKK -tha? question* There t^ast hir*e
kind of study done on the bottla container iSfeu'S i»
If connection with tho alcohol.
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isnportant because maybe tha tuatallic ri:a' ;L...;er i.-. tL-sre
S.3 what you're worried abmr** You have a cln
and tin oxidizer and t{-v osrldiKcs h>:At wxyhn i:L • s -,v*.
yew should really worry *>r>ottt.
I think v-e have to lock at the F.'-'C problem 1:.
broader tenas. I think that.8s a i;a?.r statement.
My other suggestions or cottmenta?
(Ho response. >
MR. SCKv3BXTZER: 'Jell, we apprec .ate your
cowae-ats. I think it was very informative for us. X1l: xlc-tf
~7? went' through this,
(Whereupon, the press conference was co«*ey
at 12:13 p.m.)
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