PROCEEDINGS
SECOND SESSION
PATCHOGUE, NEW YORK
JUNE 21, 1967
NEW YORK
CONFERENCE
Pollution of the Navigable Waters of
Moriches Bay and the Eastern Section of
Great South Bay and their Tributaries
U. S. DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR . FEDERAL WATER POLLUTION CONTROL ADMINISTRATION

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SECOND SESSION
CONFERENCE
In the Matter of
Pollution of the Navigable
Waters of Moriches Bay and
the Eastern Section of Great
South Bay and their Tributaries

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2
INDEX
STATEMENT OF	PAGE
Murray Stein (Opening Statement)	5
Hon. Robert F. Kennedy (Telegram)	14
Hon. Lester L. Wolff	17
Robert D. Hennigan	20
H. Lee Dennison	86
Hon. Robert T. Waldbauer	97
Elizabeth M. Wallace	109
Nelson D. Houck	HI
Hugh Mercer
Douglas McNicol	122
Barney A. Evans	125
Arthur McComb (Letter)	127
Murray Stein (Closing Statement)	129

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3
Second Session of the Conference in the Matter of
Pollution of the Navigable Waters of Moriches Bay and the
Eastern Section of Great South Bay and their Tributaries,
Long Island, New York, convened at 10:00 am, on Wednesday,
June 21, 1967, at Felice's Restaurant, Patchogue, New York.
PRESIDING:
Mr. Murray Stein, Assistant Commissioner
for Enforcement, Federal Water Pollution
Control Administration, Department of the
Interior, Washington, D. C.
CONFEREES:
Mr. Dwight F. Metzler, Deputy Commissioner,
State of New York Department of Health,
Albany, New York
Mr. Robert D. Hennigan, Assistant Commissioner,
State of New York Department of Health,
Albany, New York
Mr. Paul DeFalco, Jr., Deputy Director,
Northeast Region, Federal Water Pollution
Control Administration, Department of the
Interior, Metuchen, New Jersey

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PARTICIPANTS:
H. Lee Dennison, County Executive, Suffolk
County, Riverhead, New York
Robert T. Waldbauer, Mayor, Village of
Patchogue, Patchogue, New York
Elizabeth M. Wallace, Director, Oyster Institute
of North America, Sayville, New York
Nelson D. Houck, General Manager, Long Island
Duck Farmers Co-operative, Eastport, New York
Hugh Mercer, President, Bluepoints Company, Inc.,
West Sayville, New York
Douglas McNicol, Fire Island Sea Clam Company,
West Sayville, New York
Barney A. Evans, Principal Civil Engineer,
Suffolk County Department of Public Works, Yaphank, New
York
OTHERS IN ATTENDANCE:
Mark Abelson, Regional Coordinator, United
States Department of the Interior, Boston, Massachusetts
Stanley Allan, Assistant Supervisor, Town of
Brookhaven, Patchogue, New York
Richard E. Allen, Chairman, Suffolk County
Sewer Agency, East Northport, New York

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4-A
OTHERS IN ATTENDANCE (CONTINUED):
Mary C. Ansbro, Editor, Water in the News, The
Soap & Detergent Association, New York, New York
Quentin Bennett, Marine Fisheries Sanitarian,
New York State Conservation Department, Ronkonkoma, New
York
Robert L. Burnap, Conservation Consultant,
Conservation Services Unit, New Canaan, Connecticut
William L. Burns, Assemblyman, J. L. C. Water
Resources, Amityville, New York
R. C Clement, Staff Biologist, National Audubon
Society, New York, New York
Morris Colen, Chief, Beach Erosion-Hurricane
Section, United States Corps of Engineers, New York District,
New York, New York
Herbert W. Davids, Director, Division of Environ-
mental Health, Suffolk County Department of Health, Riverhead,
New York
Milton W. Dedek, Supervising Public Health
Educator, New York State Department of Health, White Plains,
New York
Louis P. DiMatteo, Bowe, Albertson & Walsh,
Melville, New York

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4-B
OTHERS IN ATTENDANCE (CONTINUED):
Sumner A. Dole, Jr., Supervisory Fish & Wildlife
Biologist, United States Fish & Wildlife Service, Patchogue,
New York
Mrs. Thomas Feeney, League of Women Voters,
Bellport, New York
G. E. Flynn, United States Coast Guard, Bayshore,
New York
John M. Flynn, Associate Public Health Engineer,
Suffolk County Health Department, Riverhead, New York
Jack Foehrenbach, Sanitary Chemist, New York
State, Oakdale, New York
Edwin S. Furman, President, Southampton Baymen,
Hampton Bays, New York
Howard B. Gates III, Senior Sanitary Engineer,
New York State Health Department, White Plains, New York
Frank Graham, Milbridge, Maine
A W. Grahame, Burde Associates, Paramus, New
Jersey
Philip Guss, Development Engineer, Lockwood,
Kessler & Bartlett, Inc., Syosset, New York
John E. Harrison, Regional Engineer, New York
State Department of Health, White Plains, New York
Thomas N. Hushower, Sanitary Engineer, United
States Public Health Service, New York, New York

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4-C
OTHERS IN ATTENDANCE (CONTINUED):
Louis A. Ingrisano, New York State Conservation
Department, Massapequa, New York
R.M. Kammerer, Commissioner, Public Works, Suffolk
County, Yaphank, New York
Jack P. Kanas, Beacon Milling Company, Center Moriches,
New York
James B. Lackey, Consultant, New York State Conservation
Commission, Melville, New York
William T. Lauder, Counsel to Suffolk County Sewer
Agency, Amityville, New York
J. Maynard Lednum, Retired Industrial Engineer,
Sayville, New York
George E. Leone, M.D., Commissioner of Health, Suffolk
County, Riverhead, New York
Arthur Lossin, Loan Officer, Small Business Administrations,
New York, New York
Arthur McComb, President, Lake Ronkonkoma Civic
Association, Ronkonkoma, New York
Gerard C. McCoyd, Group Leader, Research Department,
Grumman Aircraft, Bethpage, New York
Joseph J. Monkoski, Civil Engineer, National Park Service,
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
F. L. Panuzio, Chief, Engineering Division, United States
Army Corps of Engineers, New York District, New York, New York
Rheta Piere, Enforcement Program, FWPCA, U.S. Depart-
ment of the Interior, Washington, D.C.
Rosanne Light, Program Analyst, Federal Water Pollution
Control Adminstration, Department of Interior.

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4-D
OTHERS IN ATTENDANCE (CONTINUED):
Cornelius Poillon, Executive Secretary, Long
Island Fishermen's Association, Westhampton Beach, New
York
Paul Resnick, Information Officer, Federal Water
Pollution Control Administration, Department of the Interior,
Metuchen, New Jersey
Mrs. P R Roe, Chairman, Conservation, Suffolk
County League of Women Voters, Stony Brook, New York
Douglas H. Sarr, Conservation Engineering Tech-
nician, Soil Conservation Service, Department of Agriculture,
Kingston, New York
Mrs. James Sherard, Suffolk County League of
Women Voters, Oakdale, New York
R. S. Sherer, Vice-President, Westhampton Civic
Association, Westhampton Beach, New York
Gerald W. Sielaff, National Park Service,
Patchogue, New York
Nelson Slager, Secretary, Fire Island Fisheries,
Inc., Bayshore, New York
Alvin Stein, Feather Sales Agency of Long Island,
Speonk, New York
Richard Struble, Assistant Sanitary Engineer,
New York State Department of Health, White Plains, New York

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4-E
OTHERS IN ATTENDANCE (CONTINUED):
John E. Suydam, President, National Party Boat
Owners Alliance, Babylon, New York
Nathaniel A. Talmage, Long Island Marine
Resources Council, Riverhead, New York
Maurice H. Taylor, Wildlife Biologist, United
States Fish & Wildlife Service, Patchogue, New York
Dr. George Vanderborgh, President, G. Vander-
borgh & Son, West Sayville, New York
George Vanderborgh, Jr., President, Long Island
Shellfish Farmers, West Sayville, New York
Robert A. Villa, District Engineer, Suffolk
County Health Department, Riverhead, New York
K. H Walker, Deputy Project Director, Hudson-
Champlain Project, Federal Water Pollution Control Adminis-
tration, Department of the Interior, Metuchen, New Jersey
Olin F. Warner, Jr., Olin Warner Duck Farm,
Calverton, New York
Virginia Weston, League of Women Voters, Brook-
haven, New York
Clarke Williams, Research Administrator, Marine
Resources Council, Regional Planning Board, Bellport, New
York

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5
Opening Statement - Mr. Stein
PROCEEDINGS
OPENING STATEMENT
BY
MR. MURRAY STEIN
MR. STEIN: The conference is open.
This second conference session in the matter
of pollution of the navigable waters of Moriches Bay and
the Eastern Section of Great South Bay and their tribu-
taries involving the State of New York and the U. S. De-
partment of the Interior is being held under the provisions
of section 10 of the Federal Water Pollution Control Act,
as amended
This conference was initiated under the shell-
fish amendments to the Act. Under these provisions of the
Act the Secretary of the Interior is authorized to call a
conference of this type when he finds that substantial
economic injury results from the inability to market shell-
fish or shellfish products in interstate commerce because
of pollution subject to abatement under the Federal Act
and the action of Federal, State or local authorities.

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Opening Statement - Mr, Stein
The purpose of the conference is to bring to-
gether representatives of the State water pollution control
agency, the U. S. Department of the Interior, and other
interested parties to review the existing situation, the
progress which has been made, to lay a basis for future
action by all parties concerned, and to give the State,
localities, and industries an opportunity to take any indi-
cated remedial action under State and local law.
As you know, the conference technique is rather
an old one. In the field of water pollution control, this
technique is particularly applicable. As far back as 1921,
the United States Supreme Court said, in dealing with a
pollution case, that the conference technique with coopera-
tive study and mutual concession was a better way of going
at pollution control problems than action in any court,
however constituted.
Experience has shown that the Supreme Court was
right, and, certainly, as a lawyer, my experience has shown
that this is the way to go at this. I know that New York
State uses the conference technique in its normal operation
of business and has achieved remarkable results in pollution
control.
Also, as you probably will determine as we pro-
ceed for a while, the conferees here have known each other

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Opening Statement - Mr. Stein
for a long time. Particularly, Mr. Metzler and I have been
working with this Federal conference technique since 1955,
both in the midwest and here, so I guess we are pretty old
hands at the conference operations.
Dwight, our record is that up to this time we
have always come up with a solution that we thought was
equitable and, as carried out, a substantial amount of
pollution has been cleaned up.
Let me just take one moment to tell you this.
Back in 1955, when Mr. Metzler was in Kansas City, we had
these Federal conferences and I was out visiting him. In
all the cities along the Missouri River, Sioux City, Omaha,
Council Bluffs, Leavenworth, Kansas City and St. Joseph,
the waste was being dumped in raw. As a matter of fact,
the garbage and the refuse was collected in the towns,
taken to the edge of the river, and dumped.
As a result of the work of the States and as
the aftermath of the conference, all the cities there have
spanking new water pollution control treatment facilities
which are in operation and are treating their wastes now.
There has been a complete transformation up and down that
river.
We strongly support the conference technique
and we measure our success by the problems which are solved

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Opening Statement - Mr. Stein
at the conference table, rather than in court.
As specified in section 10 of the Federal
Water Pollution Control Act, the Secretary of the Interior
has notified the official State water pollution control
agency of this conference. This conference is between the
New York State Department of Health and the Federal Water
Pollution Control Administration of the U. S, Department
of the Interior.
The State of New York has designated as its
conferees for this conference Mr. Dwight F Metzler and
Mr. Robert D. Hennigan of the New York State Department of
Health. Mr. Paul DeFalco, Jr., of the Interior Department's
Hudson-Champlain Project, has been designated as conferee
for the Federal Government.
My name is Murray Stein. I am from headquarters
of the Federal Water Pollution Control Administration, in
Washington, D. C., and the representative of Secretary
Udall.
The parties to this conference are the represen-
tatives of the State of New York and the U. S. Department
of the Interior. Participation in this conference will be
open to representatives and invitees of these agencies. I
would suggest, during the first recess we have, that anyone
in New York wishing to make a statement get in touch with
Mr. Metzler, who will manage the time for New York and call

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Opening statement - Mr. Stein	Q
y
on those people who wish to make statements for the conference.
MR. METZLER: May I supplement that, Mr. Chairman,
with an additional brief remark? jack Harrison, who is the
Regional Engineer for the State Health Department is manag-
ing this. Already some have approached me. May I ask Jack
to stand up so that we can be sure that everybody can identify
him. If those wishing to make statements will see him, then
we will have our witnesses in orderly fashion.
MR. STEIN: All right. Both the State and Federal
governments have responsibilities in dealing with water pollu-
tion control problems. The Federal water pollution Control
Act declares that the states have primary rights and responsi-
bilities for taking action to abate and control pollution.
Consistent with this, we are charged by law to encourage the
States in these activities. At the same time, the Secretary
of the interior is charged by law with specific responsi-
bility in the field of water pollution control in connection
*Ath interstate and navigable waters.
The first session of the conference we had here
suggested that the waters here were navigable and there was
pollution occurring in these waters subject to abatement.
The Federal Government can initiate enforcement
action whenever the secretary of the Interior finds that
substantial economic injury results from the inability to

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Opening Statement - Mr. Stein
market shellfish or shellfish products in interstate com-
merce because of pollution of interstate or navigable waters,
and the action of Federal, State or local authorities.
At the first conference session held September
20-21, 1966, the conferees unanimously agreed to the follow-
ing conclusions and recommendations:
1.	On the basis of statements presented at the
conference, evaluation of the testimony, the answers, and
the conclusions, the conferees believe the waters of Moriches
Bay and the eastern section of Great South Bay are polluted.
2.	This pollution substantially interferes with
the shellfish industry in the shipment and marketing of
shellfish in interstate commerce.
3.	To date, the remedial measures taken to
abate the pollution have not been adequate. The delays in
abating the pollution are due to the very complicated nature
of the problem and the tremendous growth of the community
in terms of population.
4.	The conferees believe that the pollution
problems are amenable to solution, and that multiple uses
of the waters are possible.
5.	There are four points involved in the total
pollution control problem in the conference area. These
are: (1) duck farm wastes, (2) domestic wastes, (3) sludge

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Opening Statement - Mr. Stein
deposits in bay waters, and (4) the bay inlets.
6.	The conferees agree it will be necessary to
develop a comprehensive, detailed plan and program for re-
medial action, including time schedules, to effect a solu-
tion to the total water pollution problem in the conference
area. For this purpose a coordinating committee consisting
of Federal, State and local representatives will be estab-
lished to analyze the four points listed above, develop
an integrated plan for pollution control, detailed recom-
mendations for remedial action, and a time schedule to put
these recommendations into effect. Within one month from
the date of this conference, the coordinating committee
is to make recommendations on the inlets problem. The
committee is to prepare a comprehensive report on its
program and plans for remedial action.
7.	Upon completion of the report of the
coordinating committee, the conference will be reconvened
at the call of the chairman to evaluate the report and adopt
a uniform plan and time schedule for pollution abatement.
This report of the coordinating committee has
been completed and accordingly this conference has been
reconvened.
As you will see when the report comes out, we
have had the widest representation on the committee. There
were Federal representatives, State representatives, local

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Opening Statement - Mr Stein
representatives, and representatives of the duck industry
and the shellfish industry,,
Now a word about the procedures governing the
conduct of the conference. The conferees will be called
upon to make statements. The conferees, in addition, may
call upon participants whom they have invited to the con-
ference to make statements. In addition, we will call on
other interested individuals who wish to present statements.
At the conclusion of each statement, the conferees will be
given an opportunity to comment or ask questions.
This procedure has proved effective in the past
in demonstrating a clear picture of what has happened. We
have found that we cannot open this to floor questions,
but everyone will be given an opportunity to put any rele-
vant material into the record. If you feel you have any
questions to ask or statements to make, just hold them until
you make the statement, and you will find that in that way
we will have an orderly development of all of the pertinent
facts and issues.
At the conclusion of the conference we will have
a discussion amongst the conferees. Depending on how the
conference goes, we will determine whether we will have an
executive session or not. Sometimes we can move more
rapidly and it is more productive if the conferees adjourn

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Opening Statement - Mr, Stein
for a few minutes, and sometimes the picture is so clear
that we can settle this right at the table, but this will
develop a little later.
Under the Federal law, the Secretary of the
Interior is required at the conclusion of the conference to
prepare a summary of it which will be sent to the conferees.
The summary, according to law, must include the following
points:
1.	Occurrence of pollution of navigable waters
subject to abatement under the Federal Act;
2.	Adequacy of measures taken toward abatement
of pollution; and
3.	Nature of delays, if any, being encountered
in abating the pollution.
The Secretary is also required to make recom-
mendations for remedial action if such recommendations are
indicated,
A record and verbatim transcript of the confer-
ence is being made by Mr. A1 Zimmer. This is made for the
purpose of aiding us in preparing a summary, and also pro-
viding a complete record of what is said here.
We will make copies of the summary and transcript
available to the New York State Department of Health.
We have found that, generally, for the purpose

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Opening Statement - Mr. Stein
of maintaining relationships within the State, that the
people who wish summaries and transcripts should request
them through their State agency rather than come directly
to the Federal Government. The reason for this is that
when the conference has been concluded, we would prefer
people who are interested in the problem to follow their
normal relations in dealing with the State government
rather than the Federal Government on these matters. This
has worked successfully in the past and we will be most
happy to make this material available to New York for dis-
tribution.
I would suggest that all speakers and partici-
pants other than the conferees making statements come to
the lectern and identify themselves for the purpose of the
record.
Before we go on, in accordance with usual pro-
cedure, we have some Congressional statements first. I
just received a telegram, which reads as follows:
"Dear Mr. Chairman:
"I regret that the Senate schedule does not
permit me to join you and the other members at this
second session of the abatement conference on Great
South and Moriches Bays.
"I do, however, want to urge the conference to

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Opening Statement - Mr. Stein
adopt the proposals made by the Long Island Coordin-
ating Committee. They must be adopted and acted
upon if Long Island's unique waterways and beaches
are to be preserved.
"In anticipation of the first recommendation
to widen, deepen and stabilize Moriches Inlet -- I
have already urged the Senate Appropriations Com-
mittee to designate funds for the second stage
planning that must now be undertaken. This dredging
project can pay dividends in terms of expanded shell-
fish harvests, greater circulation of ocean water
in the bays and less pollution on the surrounding
beaches.
"But other steps must also be taken. Unless
the pollution coming from unsewered population,
from the duck farms and from other sources is col-
lected and treated, this dredging will be to no
avail.
"And it is on these steps, construction of a
secondary treatment plant in Patchogue, arranging
to dump duck wastes in the ocean during the late
spring months, operation of adequate treatment
facilities at all duck farms and a general improve-
ment of town and village sewage systems, that we

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Opening Statement - Mr. Stein
rely on local government for action.
"Fortunately, Federal and State assistance is
available to help eliminate pollution in Great South
and Moriches Bays. The Federal Government will now
contribute up to 55 percent of the cost of sewage
collection and treatment plants. And the State will
contribute an additional 30 percent. This greatly
reduces the financial load on local taxpayers.
"This is the season when Long Island's beaches
open up. This is the season when dredges and oyster
boats prepare for the fall harvest. Let us also make
this the season when positive steps are taken to
eliminate pollution in our bays.
"I urge you to adopt the recommendations of the
conference."
Signed, "Robert F. Kennedy."
As usual, Senator Kennedy, who has been following
this and other pollution problems in the country, has done
his homework and made specific recommendations. He is one
elected official that we don't just get glittering generali-
ties from. He has always been very helpful to us and to the
pollution program.
We also have a statement from Congressman Lester
L. Wolff of the 3rd Congressional District.

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Hon. Lester L Wolff
Miss Light, do you have that statement?
MISS LIGHT: Yes.
MR. STEIN: Would you come to the lectern and
read it, please?
STATEMENT OF HONORABLE LESTER L.
WOLFF, U. S. HOUSE OF REPRESEN-
TATIVES, 3rd CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT,
NEW YORK, READ BY MISS ROSANNE LIGHT
MISS LIGHT: "The growth and development of
Suffolk County has not only local importance, but is of
importance throughout the State and the rest of the country.
Accordingly, the problems resulting from the growth and
development of Suffolk County are of concern well outside
the geographic boundaries of the County.
"One of these problems is water pollution. And
as this conference demonstrates, water pollution in this
area is a local problem, a State problem, and a National
problem.
"This conference, first convened last September,
has made a great step forward in determining the causes of
pollution of Moriches Bay and the eastern section of Great
South Bay, and has set in motion the machinery to effect a

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Hon. Lester L. Wolff
18
program to remedy the situation. I fully expect that at
the conclusion of this conference, we will be well on the
way toward accomplishing an effective action program to
clean up the Bays.
"But when this conference has ended it would
be premature to believe that our water pollution problems
here have been solved. This conference deals only with
existing problems in a specific area. Beyond the scope
of this conference are potential pollution problems which
involve Suffolk County and will have effects on a much
wider area.
"Specifically, I am concerned with the problem
of domestic waste disposal in this County. As the excellent
report of the Long Island Coordinating Committee points out,
all of Suffolk County depends upon ground water, obtained
from wells, for its water supply. With few exceptions,
public sewer systems do not exist here. The private sub-
surface waste disposal systems, presently in use, discharge
to the ground waters and thus the contaminants from our
domestic wastes enter the ground waters.
"I believe that the future growth of Long Island
will depend on a readily available supply of fresh water,
and only public sewers and the necessary treatment facilities
can prevent the contamination of our water supply. I think

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Hon. Lester L. Wolff
there is an urgent need to begin taking the necessary
measures now. Delay will only increase the hazard of pol-
lution and will increase the cost of building the sewers.
"In February the referendum for Sewer District
No. 1 was defeated. When this referendum is again presented
to the voters of Suffolk County, I urge that it be approved.
"The State and Federal governments can help in
the project by bearing a portion of the expenses. But the
initial action of approving the project must be taken by
the County voters. Although the cost of public sewers may
seem prohibitive at this time, I believe that unless the
sewers are built in the near future, the costs in terms of
economic losses may be immeasurable."
Thank you.
MR. STEIN: Thank you, and thank Congressman
Wolff.
Again, as you people can see, the Congressional
delegation keeps fairly close tabs on us in Washington in
relation to the problem up here.
Are there any other Congressional representa-
tives?
(There was no response.)
MR. STEIN: If not, the Federal representative
here, and conferee will waive his statement at this time.

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Robert D. Hennigan
The important thing is to get into the meat of the report
so that we can proceed with the substantive part of the
conference.
With that, we will call on Mr. Metzler, but
before you go on, let's go off the record.
(There was discussion off the record.)
MR. STEIN: All right, Mr. Metzler.
MR. METZLER: Mr. Stein, fellow conferees:
Mr. Hennigan served as chairman of the commit-
tee to carry out the charges which we gave the committee
at the last session. I understand that relatively few of
those who are here have actually seen a copy of the report.
For that reason, we will give some condensation, but a
rather complete review of the report itself.
Mr. Hennigan.
STATEMENT OF MR. ROBERT D. HENNIGAN,
CONFEREE, AND ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER,
NEW YORK STATE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH,
ALBANY, NEW YORK
MR. HENNIGAN: Incidentally, copies of the re-
port are available at the table in the rear of the room.
Among the recommendations by the conferees at

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Robert D. Hennigari
the conclusion of the Federal Enforcement Conference in
the matter of pollution of the navigable waters of Moriches
Bay and Eastern Section of Great South Bay, Long Island,
New York, was the formation of a coordinating committee
consisting of State, Federal and local representatives.
This committee was charged with the preparation of a report
recommending on a short-range and long-range basis, methods
to eliminate water pollution within the conference area.
Specifically, the committee was to study the
problem of inlet control and stabilization, duck farm waste
treatment, domestic waste treatment and removal of existing
sludge deposits. The report on inlets was submitted to the
conferees in November 1966.
The committee members are listed in this report
which is submitted to the conferees for their consideration
in setting up abatement time schedules to control the total
pollution problem in Moriches Bay and the Eastern Section
of Great South Bay.
Let me first thank the committee members for
their cooperation and dedication to the task that was pre-
sented to them. I would also like to give special thanks
to Jack Harrison.
The members of the committee included:
Mark Abelson - U. S. Department of the Interior

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22
Robert D. Henriigan
Sylvan Martin - U. S Public Health Service
Frank L. Panuzio - U. S. Army Corps of Engineers
Douglas McNicol - Shellfish Growers
David H. Wallace - N. Y, State Conservation
Department
Charles Dominy - Suffolk County
Charles Barrand - Suffolk County
Edward De Piazzy - Long Island Duck Growers
I would also like to take this opportunity to
thank the Alternates and Advisors to the committee. The
Alternates included:
Paul DeFalco - U S. Department of the Interior
Arthur Handley - N. Y. State Department of Health
Ralph Van Derwerker - U. S. Public Health Service
James C. Riley - U. S. Army Corps of Engineers
The Advisors included:
Dr. George E. Leone - Suffolk County Department
of Health
Herbert Davids - Suffolk County Department of
Health
Robert Villa - Suffolk County Department of Health
George Morrison - U. S. Public Health Service
Nelson Houck - Long Island Duck Growers
William Cosulich - Consulting Engineer
R. M. Kammerer - Suffolk County D.P.W.

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23
Robert D. Hennigan
B-. A, Evans - Suffolk County D.P.W.
Sumner A. Dole - U. S. Bureau of Sport Fisheries
and Wildlife
And again, a special thanks to John E. Harrison
of the New York State Department of Health, who acted as
Executive Secretary to the committee,,
I. GENERAL BACKGROUND
Geography
The area under consideration by this report lies
on the south shore of Long Island, New York. It consists
of Moriches Bay west of Westhampton Beach, and the eastern
end of Great South Bay, east of a line connecting Blue Point
and Water Island. Included are Patchogue Bay, Bellport Bay
and Narrow Bay, the connecting waterway between Great South
Bay and Moriches Bay. Also included are the coves, rivers
and estuaries tributary to the main bays.
Great South Bay and Moriches Bay are separated
from the Atlantic Ocean by a narrow sand bar, in places only
a few hundred yards wide. Both bays are extremely shallow,
varying in depth from one to 11 feet with a mean depth of
four feet. Moriches Bay is nine miles long and varies from
one to two miles in width. Great South Bay, in its entirety,
is 24 miles long, averages three miles in width, and has an
area of 95 square miles. That portion of Great South Bay

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Robert D. Hennigari
included in this report is eight miles long and two to four
miles wide.
Population and Economy
The study area lies in the towns of Brookhaven
and Southampton in Suffolk County. These towns are essen-
tially rural in character and are dotted both inland and along
the shore by small incorporated villages and unincorporated
areas. The townships have experienced dramatic upsurge in
population growth in recent years. In the period 1950-1961,
the population of the town of Brookhaven increased from
44,522 to 114,780 while that of the town of Southampton
increased from 17,013 to 28,467 people. During this same
decade, the entire Suffolk County experienced a 149 percent
increase in population, from 276,129 to 697,462. The popu-
lation boom in Suffolk County has continued, with estimates
of 756,000 by 1963 and 950,000 by the end of 1965. These
figures indicated the rapid growth experienced on Long
Island as people have moved farther from New York City.
Land use in the study area is mainly residential,
recreational and agricultural. There are many summer homes
along the ocean and bay shores, and a number of public and
private bathing beaches are maintained throughout the area.
Smith Point County Park, located on Great South Beach be-
tween Great South Bay and Moriches Bay, is part of the long

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Robert D Hennigan
narrow sand bar lying to the south of Great South Bay
which constitutes Fire Island National Seashore.
The area is well known for both produce and
poultry. Potatoes, cauliflower, asparagus, tomatoes, lima
beans and strawberries are the chief crops. The Long Island
duck has become a household word throughout the country.
These ducks are raised on farms lining the shores of the
rivers and inlets along the mainland,, In 1965, there were
39 active duck farms in Suffolk County. Thirty-two of these,
producing more than three million ducks per year, are located
in the study area.
HYDROGRAPHY
Although the annual rainfall in the study area
averages 46.5 inches per year, there are no major fresh
water streams discharging into the bays and the majority of
the precipitation becomes part of the ground water. As a
result of the limited surface runoff only small amounts of
fresh water directly enter Moriches and Great South Bays.
The primary discharge of fresh water into the Bays comes
from ground water movement which causes a natural discharge
from the sub-surface reservoirs located under Long Island.
Sufficient sea water enters through Fire Island
and Moriches Inlets to maintain the salt distribution in
the bays. Tidal movement of waters is generally sufficient

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Robert D Hennigari
to prevent stratification in the open bays. Stratification
does occur, however, to some extent near the inlets and
rivers tributary to the bays. Although there is sufficient
tidal movement to permit mixing of the waters in the bays,
there is very little flushing action and the amount of new
water entering from the sea is quite limited. The normal
circulation pattern in the bays when Moriches Inlet is
open is easterly with the water going from Great South Bay
into Moriches Bay. When the Moriches Inlet is closed by
silting, water movement is reversed with the water of
Moriches Bay going into Great South Bay. For the above
reason the hydrography of the bays is dependent to a large
extent on the status of the Moriches Inlet.
WATER USES
Domestic Water Supply
The primary source of water supply for all pur-
poses in Suffolk County is ground water, obtained from
wells. These same ground waters also provide water for
agricultural irrigation and for operating duck farms.
Almost 20 billion gallons of ground water were withdrawn
from Suffolk County's underground reservoirs in 1956. This
withdrawal is accompanied by a high return rate. The U. S.
Geological Survey has estimated that for 1961 in Suffolk
County, "probably 80 percent of the water pumped from public,

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Robert D. Hennigan
private and industrial wells is returned to the ground."
Bathing
The waters of Moriches and Great South Bays
are used extensively for recreational bathing at both
public and private beaches. Many miles of privately
owned shore line property are used for bathing. In 1966,
a portion of the sand bar separating Great South Bay from
the ocean was dedicated as Fire Island National Seashore.
With this facility available, it is expected that recrea-
tional bathing will increase as an influx of tourists begin
to enjoy this site.
Finfishing
The area serves as an important commercial fish-
ing source. In 1961, an estimated total of 354,000 pounds
of fish were landed in Great South Bay and Moriches and
Shinnecock Bays.
Sport fishing is also very popular in the area.
Many deep sea fishing boats operate from the various marinas,
and private boats of all sizes are used for sport fishing.
Shellfishing
Shellfish, primarily hard clams, are harvested
extensively from the area. In 1961, more than two million
pounds of shellfish were taken from the area. At one time,
the area supported an extensive oyster harvest, but in recent

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Robert D. Hennigan
years the crop of oysters has been reduced arid the oyster is
no longer a significant factor in the economy of the area0
Boating
The dramatic increase in recreational boating
activities on the national level has been reflected along
the entire Long Island shore. As increasing numbers of per-
sons have more leisure and income, there has been an accom-
panying growth in boating, so that there is now an abundance
of all types and sizes of pleasure boats using the waters
of Great South Bay and Moriches Bay. Nine yacht clubs and
numerous marinas dot the shoreline from Patchogue Bay to
Westhampton.
Duck Farming
The operators of duck farms make extensive use
of the waters of the rivers, creeks, coves and estuaries.
These bodies of water and the adjacent shore areas are fenced
and diked to form holding pens which provide the duck with
access to both land and water. Water usage at typical duck
farms ranges from 14 to 120 gpd per duck. At the larger
farms, water usage can be in the order of 2-3 mgd.
Other Interest
Many different agencies on all levels of govern-
ment are directly interested in the study area.
The Federal Government is interested in the area

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Robert D. Hennigan
and the quality of the waters because of the interstate sale
of shellfish, and other commercial fish obtained from the
area. The Federal Government is also interested in the
recreational aspects of the area including the development
of the beach area as a national park. Federal agencies are
also directly involved with the maintenance of the channels,
dredging and control of beach improvements to minimize
hurricane damage. There is also strong interest in pollution
abatement to be certain that the waters of the study area
are utilized to their fullest possible extent.
State interest in the area is also very wide-
spread as evidenced by the activities of various departments.
Regulations, control and consultation are utilized by the
shellfish industry, the duck raising industry, farming and
other industrial developments in the area. The recreational
aspects of the area and preservation of fishing and shell-
fishing are under the control of State agencies as is the
abatement of pollution by the duck farms and other sources.
It is at the local level that the major interest
exists. Suffolk County and the Town of Brookhaven are di-
rectly concerned with the problem of dredging the Bays and
the various coves and other areas. Local interest is very
high in recreational aspects and fishing in the area which
brings many tourists and county residents to the area in

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Robert D. Hennigan
the summer months. Farming, duck raising, and shellfishing
are all important industries in the area.
INLET REPORT
Moriches Inlet
1.	DESCRIPTION. Moriches Inlet is one of five
openings through the narrow sandy barrier beach which sepa-
rates the Atlantic Ocean from a series of interconnected
bays on the south shore of Long Island (Figure 1). The
inlet, located in the Town of Brookhaven, Suffolk County,
Long Island, New York is by water, 80 miles east of the
Battery in New York City and 52 miles west of Montauk Point.
2.	The inlet was formed as a result of a break
through the barrier beach during a period of abnormal tides
and waves on 4 March 1931. The inlet, 2,000 feet long and
800 feet wide, forms the entrance from the Atlantic Ocean
to Moriches Bay (Figure 1).
3.	The condition of the inlet in 1955 is shown
on Figure 2. The condition of the inlet in June 1965 is
shown on Figure 3. The condition of the bay between the
Intracoastal Waterway and the inlet is also of significance.
An elongated sand bar has formed across the ocean entrance
of the inlet with controlling depth of 3.4 to 6 feet at
mean low water. An arc-shaped shoal with a controlling

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Robert D Hennigan
depth of 1.2 feet at mean low water,has formed along the
easterly jetty. This shoal with a length of about 800 feet
along the jetty and about 550 feet normal to the jetty has
forced the navigable channel against the west levee. The
navigable channel with a controlling depth of 12 feet at
mean low water has a minimum width of about 170 feet. A
deep water area with a controlling depth of 6 feet at mean
low water exists at the north, bay side entrance to the in-
let. From the inlet, the channel to the Intracoastal Water-
way is well defined with a controlling depth of 6 feet at
mean low water and with a controlling width of 120 feet.
4.	The mean tidal range in the ocean at the
inlet is 3.3 feet. At strength of current, the maximum
velocity through the inlet is about 5.2 feet per second on
the flood tide and about 6.5 feet per second on the ebb
tide. The average velocities are estimated at 1.9 feet at
flood tide and 2.2 feet at ebb tide.
5.	Moriches Bay extends 12.8 miles from Smith
Point at its western end where it adjoins Great South Bay
to Potunk Point on its eastern end where it connects with
Shinnecock Bay through Quantuck and Quoque Canals. Depths
below mean low water in the bay average about 4 feet with
a maximum depth in the main body at 17 feet and in Narrow
Bay at 12 feet. The northern side of the bay at the mainland

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Robert D. Hennigan
is indented with drawn valleys of numerous streams that drain
into it. The largest of these are Forge River and Seatuck
Creek. Seawater of varying salinity prevails in the greater
parts of the bays and therefore these waters are not nor-
mally affected by ice conditions. The mean range of tide
in the bay is 0.3 feet. The highest tide of record during
21 September 1938 hurricane was 15.7 feet above mean low
water.
6. EXISTING IMPROVEMENTS. The inlet was im-
proved by the State of New York in cooperation with the
County of Suffolk and Town of Brookhaven by dredging the
channel and by the construction of stone revetments and
jetties on both sides in 1952, 1953, and 1954 (Figure 2).
The east jetty at Moriches Inlet is 846 feet long and the
west jetty is 1.461 feet long. There has been no improve-
ment of the inlet by the Federal Government. However, a
Federal improvement, known as Long Island Intracoastal
Waterway and authorized by the River and Harbor Act of 1937,
extends across the bay with a width of 100 feet and a depth
of 6 feet at mean low water (Figure 1). In addition, a bay
channel, 6 feet deep at mean low water and 100 feet wide,
from the northern end of the inlet to the Long Island Intra-
coastal Waterway was dredged in 1943 by the Corps of Engineers
for the Navy Department.

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Robert D. Hennigan
7. NEED OF INLET STABILIZATION. The stabiliza-
tion of the inlet is most essential to successful abatement
of the pollution problem in Moriches Bay in the interest of
fish and wildlife and recreation; to safe navigation; and
to stabilization of downdrift shore. The effect of a closed
and open Moriches Inlet on the pollution conditions in the
bay were evaluated in a study made by Wood Hole Oceano-
graphic Institute in 1950-1957 in the interest of the shell-
fish industry. Briefly, in 1950, before the inlet closed,
the salinity in Moriches Bay averaged 28 parts per thousand
or about 85 percent of sea water, the excess amount of phos-
phorus (over that normally present in sea water) averaged
7.51 microgram atoms per liter, the saturation of oxygen
ranged from 70 to 100 percent and the transparency, as ex-
pressed in depth to which a white disk can be seen, from
3.5 to 5 feet. In 1951, with the inlet closed, the average
salinity in the bay decreased to 19.7 parts per thousand or
61 percent of sea water, the excess phosphorus content was
23.6 microgram atoms per liter, the oxygen saturation ranged
from 30 to 75 percent, and the transparency from 1.5 to 2.5
feet. In 1954, after reopening of the inlet, conditions in
the bay changed again. The salinity increased to about the
same level as in 1950, the excess phosphorus content averaged
5.43 microgram atoms per liter and the transparency increased

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Robert D. Hennigan
34
to 5 feet or more, more or less the same conditions that
prevailed at the time the inlet was opened.
8. In 1950 the Woods Hole report concluded
that the unsatisfactory condition of Great South Bay for
the production of oysters was the result of excessive pol-
lution by organic matter, partly originating in Moriches
Bay. The closure of Moriches Inlet in 1951 has the effect
of greatly retarding the escape of pollutants from Moriches
Bay and more of the pollutants reached Bellport Bay than
prior to the closure. The 1954 Woods Hole report, which
was made after additional investigations, concluded as fol-
lows: "It is imperative that Moriches Inlet be maintained
in as open a condition as possible. Closure of the inlet
would certainly be followed by the 'cesspool-like' condition
of Moriches Bay experienced from 1951 to 1953. Further de-
crease in the concentration of pollutant chemicals in the
bay waters may not be expected without further and more
effective employment of sanitary engineering practices on
the duck farms." The 1954 report further found that when
the Moriches Inlet was opened, the tidal exchange between
Moriches Bay and Bellport Bay is reduced and the condition
in Bellport Bay and Great South Bay is improved. The 1956
Woods Hole report based on a survey made during August of
that year found that pollution in Great South Bay had not

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Robert D Hennigan
abated and that the improved conditions for the growth of
shellfish that were noted may be ascribed entirely to the
tidal flushing through Moriches Inlet. The 1957 report
concluded that if improved conditions in Great South Bay
are to continue, it is mandatory that Moriches Inlet be
widened, deepened and stabilized as quickly as possible.
9.	AUTHORIZED IMPROVEMENT. By the 1960 River
and Harbor Act, the plan of improvement was authorized for
Moriches Inlet and provides for a channel 10 feet deep at
mean low water and 200 feet wide, extending from deep water
in the Atlantic Ocean to Moriches Bay, a distance of about
0.8 mile; thence a channel 6 feet deep at mean low water
and 100 feet wide to the Long Island Intracoastal Waterway,
a distance of about 1.1 miles with widening at bends; for
rehabilitation of existing stone jetties and revetments;
for oceanward extension of the east jetty to the 12 foot
contour depth at mean low water and the west jetty a dis-
tance of 400 feet; and for a by-passing plan to transfer
sand from the east side of the inlet to a feeder beach on
the west side.
10.	The estimated cost of the project is
$6,980,000 for initial construction and $220,000 for annual
maintenance and operation costs. The estimated cost to the
United States is estimated at $3,900,000 of the first cost

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Robert D Hennigan
and $110,000 of the annual maintenance and operation costs
provided that local interest agree to contribute in cash
about 45 percent of the first cost, presently estimated at
$3,080,000 and 50 percent of the annual maintenance and
operation costs, presently estimated $110,000, and provided
further that local interest agree: (a) to make the cash
contribution either in a lump sum prior to commencement of
the work, or in installments prior to commencement of perti-
nent work items, in accordance with work scheduled as re-
quired by the Chief of Engineers, the final apportionment
of cost to be made after actual costs have been determined;
(b) to furnish, free of cost to the United States, all lands,
easements, rights-of-way, and suitable spoil-disposal areas
for the initial work and for subsequent maintenance, when
and as required; and (c) to hold and save the United States
free from damages due to the construction and maintenance of
the project; (d) to provide and maintain suitable terminal
facilities when and as required for the accommodation of
vessels that would navigate the inlets and adjacent bays,
open to all on equal terms; (e) to maintain, for the duration
of the economic life of the project, continued public owner-
ship of the publicly owned shores and their administration
for public use, and continued availability for public use of
the privately owned shores upon which a portion of the Federal

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Robert D. Hennigan
share of the cost is based; and (f) to establish regulations
prohibiting discharge of untreated sewage, garbage and other
pollutants in the waters of the bay by users thereof, which
regulations shall be in accordance with applicable laws or
regulations of Federal, State and local authorities respon-
sible for pollution preservation and control.
11.	STATUS OF PROJECT. In fiscal year 1967,
Congress appropriated $100,000 to initiate preconstruction
planning. The balance of funds ($260,000) required to com-
plete preconstruction planning are currently programmed by
the Corps of Engineers for fiscal year 1968 and 1969. This
schedule provides for completion of contract documents by
30 June 1969 and need of construction funds in fiscal years
1970 and 1971. The local interest would therefore have to
be prepared to accomplish local cooperation including the
cash contributions by July 1969.
12.	The Corps of Engineers have initiated
measurements in the field as to tides, currents, velocities,
and topography, and design and construction of a hydraulic
model at the Waterways Experiment Station in Vicksburg,
Mississippi to test the authorized inlet improvement as to
a plan of by-passing the sand from the east to the west of
the inlet, of removing interior bay and inlet shoals, and of
extending the jetties as to lengths and directions. The

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Robert D. Hennigan
Corps of Engineers plans in fiscal year 1968 to complete
the model studies, and initiate the preparation of contract
documents, and in fiscal year 1969 to complete the prepara-
tion of contract documents ready for advertisement. There
are no funds for initiation of construction for this project
in the announced Presidential budget for fiscal year 1968.
13.	OTHER PERTINENT STUDIES. A survey of water
resources and related land uses of the Great South Bay, New
York, including the waters of the adjoining lesser bays and
inlets, was authorized in Section 209 of the Flood Control
Act (Title II, Public Law 89 - 789) approved 7 November
1966. Such an investigation and study by the Corps of En-
gineers with the coordinated assistance of interested Federal
and local interests would include but not be limited to
navigation, fisheries, flood control, control of noxious
weeds, water pollution, water quality, beach erosion, and
recreation. However, no funds are available under this au-
thority.
14.	The Federal Water Pollution Control Adminis-
tration under Section 3 of the Water Quality Act, approved
October 1966, is carrying out a comprehensive study of water
quality management program for the Hudson River, Lake Cham-
plain, and Metropolitan Coastal area. The purpose of the
study is to provide State and local people with data on which

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Robert D. Henriigan
39
to make rational decisions as to waste treatment needs that
would be commensurate with the protection of existing water
uses and with possible enhancement of existing water quality
to provide for higher uses.
15.	Section 214 of the River and Harbor Act of
1965, provides authority for the Corps of Engineers to under-
take water resources planning in cooperation with the State
of New York which under the Department of Conservation and
local agencies is in the process of making an overall plan
for the development of all of the State's natural resources
which include the Great South Bay and the adjoining bays on
the south shore of Long Island.
16.	RECOMMENDATIONS. To meet the objective of
the enforcement conference on water pollution in Moriches
Bay and Eastern Great South Bay, Long Island, New York, the
coordinating committee considers that there should be a
practical short term and a long term approach to the problem
of water recirculation and flow as it affects pollution
abatement in Moriches and Eastern Great South Bays. There-
fore the Coordinating Committee recommends the following
actions for the short term approach:
a. The completion of the Moriches Inlet stabi-
lization project should be advanced. Actions should be
initiated through local, State and Federal channels to obtain

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Robert D. Hennigan
an allotment of $500,000 in the Federal budget for fiscal
year 1968 to complete planning and to initiate construc-
tion. Subsequent action should be taken to obtain addi-
tional Federal construction funds to bring the project to
rapid completion commensurate with good engineering and
construction practices. Such a schedule will coincide and
be in phase with the schedule for the construction of pollu-
tion abatement facilities at the duck farms as developed
at this enforcement conference.
b. The local cooperating agency (the State of
New York and the County of Suffolk) should implement the
conditions of local cooperation including the cash contribu-
tion so as to be in phase with the Federal financing of the
project for the inlet stabilization.
17. For the long term approach, the Committee
strongly supports the proposed feasibility study and con-
struction of a model of the Great South Bay and adjoining
bays. Data obtained on the model together with full scale
data from the bays would provide much information and means
of arriving at long range solution of the various problems
which are plaguing these bays.
That concludes the first recommendation relative
to the inlets. The second item is the duck waste problem.

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Robert D. Henriigan
41
DUCK WASTE
Background Duck Waste
The duck farms presently operating in the area
under consideration are constructed as follows:
Ducks are housed in buildings with free access
to a sand covered duck run. The lower end of this run
terminates in a ditch or a concrete water trough. All
water from this ditch or trough goes to a sump at the low
end of the duck runs where it is pumped up to a series of
two or more settling lagoons, which provide a form of pri-
mary treatment. Final effluent is then discharged to the
receiving waters.
Each lagoon is used 30 days or until sludge
bulks on the surface. The lagoon is then taken out of
service and allowed to dry. Upon drying the lagoon is
cleaned and the sludge is used for landfill.
The State abatement program, started in 1951,
required that duck raisers first dike all duck pens so that
ducks were not raised on natural waters. This has been ac-
complished in the study area.
The second step of the State abatement program
called for effective settling of all duck wastes. This was

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Robert D. Hennigan
done by providing a series of upland lagoons to provide 4-
hour settling for the wastes It was recommended that an
adequate number of lagoons be provided to handle a full year's
flow.
Steps number three and four of the State program
called for effective disinfection and removal of certain
nutrients prior to discharge. This portion of the program
has not yet been accomplished. Formal abatement orders have
recently been issued on all duck farms in the area. These
orders require secondary treatment with 85 percent removal
of suspended solids and biochemical oxygen demand, effective
disinfection and the removal of phosphates. A copy of a
typical order is included in this report.
A treatment method to meet these standards is
now under study and a full-scale pilot plant is now in opera-
tion to evaluate the findings arrived at by laboratory studies.
The duck farm water pollution abatement schedule,
as outlined in the orders, has been substantially complied
with to date by the duck farmers. All except one of the duck
farmers, including the Eastport Duck Processing Plant, located
within the conference study area have submitted preliminary
plans for their waste treatment facilities. The Paul Chor-
noma Duck Farm has not submitted a preliminary plan. However,
it is understood that this farm will go out of operation.

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Robert D. Hennigan
The Carman River Duck Farm has submitted preliminary plans
for treatment, as required by the abatement plan time
schedule; however, the chemical treatment method proposed is
untried, and this method is being reviewed by consulting
engineers.
The next step in the abatement plan time schedule
is the submission of final construction plans in approvable
form, on or before August 1, 1967, with construction to be
initiated by November 1, 1967.
The pilot plant referred to in the conferees'
reports was constructed at the DePiazzy Duck Farm in Moriches
Town of Brookhaven, following the design data outlined in the
report by William F. Cosulich, Consulting Engineer, entitled
"Treatment of Wastes from Long Island Farms," March 1966.
The plant consists of an aerated lagoon with a five-day de-
tention period. The lagoon is provided with a five horse-
power mechanical aerator (Wells Aqualator) which provides
1.4 pounds of oxygen per pound of BOD. The aeration lagoon
has a liquid depth of eight (8) feet. The effluent from the
aerated lagoon flows to either of two settling lagoons, each
having a one-day detention time. Prior to discharge to the
receiving stream, the effluent is chlorinated and passed
through a chlorine contact tank, providing 30 minutes deten-
tion. The pilot plant is treating a flow of 50,000 gallons

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Robert D. Hennigan
per day, which is a minor portion of the DePiazzy Farm's
total daily flow.
The construction of the pilot plant was fin-
anced by the duck industry. The State Department of Health
pledged some $6,000 toward the operational costs involved.
In addition, the State Department of Health is providing the
laboratory services for evaluating the effectiveness of the
treatment. Preliminary laboratory results on the removal
of BOD and suspended solids have been encouraging. A sum-
mary of these results is included in this report.
It is planned to continue the evaluation of the
treatment, including the reduction of phosphates by the addi-
tion of lime, coupled with pH adjustment, and the effective-
ness of disinfection of coliform organisms by chlorination.
Also, sludge measurements and sludge analyses are planned in
both the aeration and settling lagoons.
Upon completion of the abatement plan time
schedule (April 30, 1968) when all duck farms are to have
constructed approved treatment facilities for all liquid
duck wastes, the remaining problem to be solved is the opera-
tion and maintenance of the completed treatment facilities.
It is strongly recommended that the duck farmers, through
their present organization, the Long Island Duck Farmers
Cooperative, set up an adequate, trained and equipped staff

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Robert D. Hennigan
45
in order to, thereafter, maintain and operate these treatment
facilities at all times in conformance with effluent stand-
ards .
I am moving over to Page 34 now, which is the
third item.
DOMESTIC WASTES
Background
There were more than 31,000 people residing in
the study area according to 1960 census figures.
The only area presently served with a public
sewer is the business district of Patchogue Village serving
an estimated 5,000 people.
The study area and all of Suffolk County depend
upon groundwater sources for their water supply. Private
subsurface sewage disposal systems discharge to the ground-
water. Contaminants from these wastes enter the groundwaters
and ultimately flow to the bay areas. The bacteria and solids
are essentially removed in the travel through the soil to
the groundwater, but nitrates and phosphates can enter the
bay area affecting ecological balance of the receiving waters.
There are undoubtedly direct discharges from some private
individual systems into the surface waters. It will require
a detailed study to determine the extent of this problem.

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Robert D. Hennigan
Although no industrial waste and effluents enter the surface
waters, fertilizers and pesticides from agricultural and
residential use find their way into the various water courses.
The present discharge from the Village of Patchogue
sewage treatment plant increases the BOD loading in Patchogue
Creek and adversely affects Great South Bay.
Discussion
Because of the complete lack of sewers and the
great need for them, the New York State Health Department
in 1963 authorized a comprehensive sewerage study for the
Five Western Towns at a cost of $660,000. The complete study
called for sewering of the entire area starting with the
three western towns known as Sewer District #1.
The study area was to be included in Sewer Dis-
trict #2 which would incorporate the Patchogue Village sewage
treatment plant. Plans for upgrading the treatment at
Patchogue were not implemented awaiting the progress of
County Sewer District #1.
The referendum for District #1 held on February
28, 1967 was defeated and probably will not be presented to
the voters again for a minimum of one year. Therefore, it
would appear to be a period of many years before the Patchogue
area would be sewered as a part of a County Sewer District.
In view of this fact, the Village of Patchogue should be re-

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Robert D. Henriigan
quired to construct a secondary treatment plant and obtain
State and Federal aid for this project. The possibility of
expansion of the plant to take in the remainder of the Vil-
lage and perhaps some of the surrounding area should be
explored at this time.
The 1966 State Legislature enacted legislation
providing for the control of waste discharges from boats.
The legislation provides for evaluation and approval of hold-
ing tanks and treatment facilities as well as onshore treat-
ment works by the State Health Department. Enforcement ac-
tivity is the general responsibility of the State Conservation
Department and local enforcement personnel.
The effective date of that statute is July 1, I96g
and rules and regulations are in the process of being developetj
by the Division of Motor Boats and the Division of Pure Waters
We propose the following abatement schedule be
followed by the Village of Patchogue:
Submit preliminary plans January 1, 1968;
Submit final plans June 1, 1968;
Start construction Novembet 1, 1968; and
Complete construction November 1, 1969.
The ordered abatement schedule is in substantial
conformance with other schedules in the conference area.
That concludes the area on domestic wastes. The

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Robert D. Hennigan
final charge to the Committee involved the duck sludge re-
moval and disposal from the bays and inlets.
DUCK SLUDGE REMOVAL AND DISPOSAL
For many years effluents from duck farms have
flowed into the tributaries on the north side of eastern
Great South Bay and Moriches Bay. These effluents have been
composed of sludge high in nitrates and phosphates, and
liquid effluents laden with suspended solids and high in
coliforms. The sludge and suspended solids have been and
are still being deposited in these tributaries, with the
deepest layers nearest the source of contamination and
gradually tapering off toward the open Bay waters.
The major creeks and branches affected include
Speonk River, Seatuck Cove, Terrell River, Carmans River,
Forge River, with other smaller creeks affected adversely
where duck farms are located adjacent to the shore.
These accumulated sludge deposits have changed
the ecology of the creeks and influenced the water chemistry
of Moriches and Great South Bay. The creeks have become
incapable of producing shellfish, and adjacent waters are
polluted to the point where the shellfish growing there are
unsafe to use. The leaching of phosphates and nitrates from
these deposits continually adds nutrients to the Bay system

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49
Robert D. Hennigan
which periodically exhibits excessive plant growth.
Various scientific studies of Great South Bay
by independent research institutions have demonstrated that
blooms of chlorella-like organisms are traceable to the duck
farm effluents. These blooms are so extensive that shellfish
in Great South Bay - considerable distances from the source
of pollution - have become of poor quality and are unmarket-
able.
The Town of Brookhaven recognized that duck de-
posits were damaging the environment of the Bays. In the
last four years, they have taken some remedial action on
certain tributaries. The Suffolk County Department of Public
Works has dredged channels in Forge River and the Seatuck
Cove for the dual purpose of facilitating boating and re-
ducing the sludge. Both of these purposes have been accom-
plished to some extent although the percentage of the sludge
deposits removed has not been determined precisely.
While there has been agreement among interested
levels of government and private groups that sludge removal
is desirable, the disposal of the waste has posed a difficult
problem.
Several alternatives are possible although all
have some disadvantages. They are:
1. Deposit the sludge on adjacent uplands or

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50
Robert D. Hennigan
wetlands.
2.	Deposit the sludcp into diked areas around
islands in the Bay.
3.	Pump the sludge into the Atlantic Ocean.
4.	Develop some economic use for sludge such
as a concentrated fertilizer or soil con-
ditioner.
Disposal thus far has been on nearby wetlands or
uplands or into the Atlantic Ocean. Sludge from the Forge
River project was spoiled on Fire Island wetlands. This
action deteriorated the environment in the disposal area and
has rendered the area unusable for indefinite time in the
future. This method of disposal within the enforcement area
is undesirable and is not recommended. On the other hand,
the disposal of sludge in the ocean in the Seatuck Cove
dredging project seems to have had no long-term ill effects
on the adjacent sea area or on the Bay complex adjacent to
Moriches Inlet.
The extent of the deposits of sludge in the
enforcement area is unknown, except in general terms, as is
shown in Exhibit A, attached to the report. It is recom-
mended that the following action be taken for the enforcement
areas:
1. (a) The creeks on which duck farms are

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51
Robert D, Hennigan
located be surveyed to delineate accu-
rately the extent and composition of
the sludge, including those where channel
dredging has taken place and adjacent
area where deposits may exist. This
study should be made immediately and
completed by September 1, 1967.
Several governmental agencies are
in a position to participate in such a
survey. These include the Suffolk County
Department of Public Works, Suffolk
County Health Department, New York State
Conservation Department, New York State
Department of Health, U. S. Department
of the Interior through their Fish and
Wildlife Service and Water Pollution Con-
trol Administration, and the U. S Army
Corps of Engineers. It is proposed that
New York State act as the coordinating
agency to carry out this survey and make
available supplemental funds to complete
the study in the specified period. The
estimated cost is $25,000.
(b) It is apparent that spoiling of duck

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Robert D. Hennigan
52
sludge has deteriorated certain lands.
A study should be undertaken to deter-
mine measures necessary or desirable to
rehabilitate such areas. The investiga-
tion should include the extent of
stabilization of the spoil deposits,
further development and best use of such
lands, and recommendations for implementa-
tion of a rehabilitation program. Such
a study may require a considerable period
of time. It is desirable to initiate the
study at the earliest practical date so
that the rehabilitation plan may be
implemented in the foreseeable future.
The Department of the Interior should
have the responsibility of carrying out
such studies.
2.	Once the study and survey in Item 1 (a)
has been completed on the sludge deposits,
a systematic program should be developed
and put into effect to handle future duck
sludge dredging operations in the en-
forcement area. It will not be possible
to estimate the cost of the dredging until

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53
Robert D. Hennigan
the basic survey in Item 1 (a) has been
completed.
A proposal for the implementation of
this phase of the program will involve
extensive costs. Since these are not
predictive at this time, it is recom-
mended that steps be taken by the con-
ferees to carry out this part of the
abatement plan.
3.	It is recommended the sludge dredged in
the enforcement area from Patchogue
River to the eastern end of Moriches
Bay be pumped to the ocean. No spoiling
of duck wastes from this area should be
placed on wetlands or in the waters of
the adjacent bays. Almost all of the
creeks containing duck wastes are with-
in 3 miles of the Ocean. Pumping these
deposits this distance and even greater
has been demonstrated to be a practical
operation in the Forge River and Seatuck
Cove projects (see Exhibit A).
There are certain concerns about
ocean outfall. First, Fire Island beach

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Robert D. Hermigan
54
areas might become contaminated by
coliform bacteria thus damaging the
National Seashore. Secondly, there is
some danger that excessive nutrients
and coliform might be carried back into
Moriches Bay through the Inlet if the
ocean discharge point' is in close proxi-
mity to the Inlet. Thirdly, surf fishing
in the spring and fall might be influ-
enced adversely. To minimize damage in
each of these problem areas the ocean
disposal should be carried out as follows:
1.	Dredging and ocean disposal undertaken
only from October 15 through May 15.
2.	Spoil would be disposed of directly
into the ocean below the low water
level.
3.	The spoil release point be approxi-
mately 1.5 miles away from Moriches
Inlet and further where practical.
4.	It is further recommended that during
the time when duck sludge is being pumped
to the ocean that a surveillance program
be established to regularly measure

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55
Robert D. Hennigan
nutrients, suspended solids, and coli-
forms. This would permit prompt revi-
sion of dredging operations should ad-
verse conditions be indicated.
This surveillance should be
coordinated by the State of New York
with participation at all levels of
government.
We now come to the Conclusions and Recommenda-
tions. You will note that they are repetitive, but I think
it is a good summary and they are worth repeating.
CONCLUSIONS AND RECOMMENDATIONS
1. The completion of the Moriches Inlet stabi-
lization project should be advanced. Actions should be
initiated through local, State and Federal channels to obtain
an allotment of $500,000 in the Federal budget for fiscal
year 1968 to complete planning and initiate construction.
Subsequent action should be taken to obtain additional Fed-
eral construction funds to bring the project to rapid com-
pletion commensurate with good engineering and construction
practices. Such a schedule will coincide and be in phase
with the schedule for the construction of pollution abatement

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56
Robert D Hennigan
facilities at the duck farms as developed at the enforcement
conference.
2.	The local cooperating agency (the State of
New York and the County of Suffolk) should implement the
conditions of local cooperation including the cash contribu-
tion so as to be in phase with the Federal financing of the
project for the inlet stabilization.
3.	The Committee strongly supports the proposed
feasibility study and construction of a model of the Great
South Bay and adjoining bays. Data obtained from operation
of the model together with full scale data from the bays
would provide much basic information required to devise a
comprehensive solution of the interrelated problems which are
plaguing the bays.
4.	It is recommended that the time schedules of
the orders of the New York State Health Department requiring
secondary treatment of the duck farm wastes be maintained
and that vigorous enforcement procedures be followed in the
case of any default.
5.	It is strongly recommended that the duck
farmers, through their present organization, the Long Island
Duck Farmers Cooperative, set up an adequate, trained and
equipped staff in order to, thereafter, maintain and operate
treatment facilities installed at duck farms at all times

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57
Robert D. Hennigan
in conformance with effluent standards.
6.	The Village of Patchogue should be required
to construct a secondary treatment plant; State and Federal
financial aid for this project should be provided. The
possibility of expansion of the plant to serve the remainder
of the Village and perhaps some of the surrounding area
should be explored at this time.
7.	The creeks on which duck farms are located
should be surveyed to delineate accurately the extent and
composition of the sludge, including those where channel
dredging has taken place and adjacent areas where deposits
may exist. This study should be made immediately and com-
pleted by September 1, 1967.
8.	It is apparent that spoiling by duck sludge
has deteriorated certain lands. A study should be undertaken
to determine measures necessary to rehabilitate such areas.
9.	A systematic program should be developed and
put into effect to handle future duck sludge dredging opera-
tions in the enforcement area.
10. It is recommended the sludge dredging in the
enforcement area from Patchogue River to the eastern end of
Moriches Bay be pumped to the ocean for release. No spoiling
of duck wastes from this area should be placed on wetlands or
in the waters of the adjacent bays. Ocean disposal should be

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58
Robert D. Hennigan
carried out as follows:
(1)	Dredging and ocean disposal undertaken only
from October 15 through May 15.
(2)	Spoil to be disposed of directly into the
ocean below the low water level.
(3)	The spoil release point to be approximately
1.5 miles away from Moriches Inlet and fur-
ther where practical, unless a lesser dis-
tance is indicated at the time of the
application for the dredge permit.
11. It is further recommended that during the
time that duck sludge is pumped to the ocean, a surveillance
program be established to regularly measure nutrients, sus-
pended solids, and coliforms. This would permit prompt re-
vision of dredging operations should conditions indicate such
need.
This completes the narrative section of the re-
port. You will notice that we included in the report a
rather extensive bibliography of past reports and studies
which have been made of this general area. There are some
60 items, in case anybody wants to do some additional study-
ing.
MR. STEIN: Without objection, the entire report
will be included in the record, as if read.

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59
Robert D. Hennigari
(The Appendix to the report is as follows:)
EXAMPLE OF TYPICAL ORDER
STATE OF NEW YORK : DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH
	x
IN THE MATTER of the Complaint against:
Poultry Farmj
Respondent,
by Reason of Alleged Violations of Article 12
of the Public Health Law.
		
STATE OF NEW YORK : DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH
	x
IN THE MATTER of the Hearing to Receive
Evidence Relevant to such Action, if any, as
should be Taken in Regard to Modification or
Revocation of Permits to Discharge Waste Efflu-
ents into
issued to:
Poultry Farm
Respondent,
or the Predecessors or Assignors
		
ORDER
A public hearing in the above entitled proceedings

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60
Robert D. Hennigan
having been returnable herein pursuant to due written notice
served in the manner provided by law and the convening of
said hearing having been waived by the parties and the New
York State Department of Health having appeared generally
therein by its Counsel, DONALD A. MacHARG, DERMOT C. REILLY
of Counsel, and the Respondents having appeared generally
therein by their Attorneys, GREENWALD, KOVNER & GOLDSMITH
of New York City, and documentary exhibits having been re-
ceived on behalf of said Department, and said Counsel for
said Department and said Attorneys for Respondent having
entered into a written Stipulation that facts exist upon which
this Order might be made, served and filed, and said Hearing
Officer having approved said Stipulation,
NOW, on reading and filing the notice of hearing
and admission of service thereof and stipulation and due
deliberation having been had, it is ORDERED;
1.	THAT the Stipulation aforesaid be and the
same hereby is approved and the facts therein are found and
the conclusions therein are arrived at.
2.	THAT all Orders of the Water Pollution Control
Board of the State of New York directed to or against the
Respondents or any of them be and they hereby are modified
to provide that the Respondents shall, and each of said Re-
spondents is hereby Ordered and directed, on and after

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61
Robert D. Hennigan
January 2, 1967, to cease and abate, and thereafter keep
abated, all discharges of duck wastes and duck processing
wastes by him or it or through or from lands or facilities
owned by him or it or under his or its management or control
into the waters of the State unless said Respondent shall,
either individually or in conjunction with others:
(a)	On or before January 1, 1967, submit to the
New York State Department of Health, through the Suffolk
County Health Department, preliminary plans showing facili-
ties for biological treatment of all such wastes and/or
effluents thereof to the extent that at least 85 percent of
the suspended solids and at least 85 percent of the bio-
chemical oxygen demand and a substantial portion of the
phosphates thereof and therein shall be removed and facili-
ties for disinfecting such wastes and/or waste effluents to
the extent that the final effluent shall at all times con-
tain a chlorine residual of not less than one half part per
million after not less than 15 minutes contact time and an
MPN of coliform organisms not greater than 100 per ml. in at
least 90 percent of the samples in a series thereof, provide^
that at no time may the MPN of such organisms in said final
effluent exceed 10,000 per 100 ml.
(b)	On or before August 1, 1967, submit final
construction plans in approvable form, prepared by or under

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62
Robert D. Hennigan
the direction of a duly licensed professional engineer, for
such facilities.
(c)	On or before November 1, 1967, initiate
construction of such facilities.
(d)	On or before April 30, 1968, cause construc-
tion of such facilities in accordance with approved plans to
be completed.
(e)	Thereafter maintain and operate said facili-
ties in such manner that they shall at all times meet the
performance criteria set forth in decretal provision 2 (a)
hereof and that the standards of no waters of the State shall
be contravened by reason of the wastes aforesaid or their
effluents.
3. THAT any and all permits for the discharge
of wastes or waste effluents into the waters of the State
issued to the Respondents or to any of them or any of their
predecessors or assignors by or on behalf of the New York
State Department of Health or the Commissioner of Health of
the State of New York or the Water Pollution Control Board
be and they hereby are modified, effective May 1, 1968, or
upon default of performance of any of the alternative de-
cretal provisions hereof prior thereto, to refer and relate
to and permit only the discharge of waste effluents treated
in the facilities construction of which is hereby alternatively

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Robert D, Hennigan
ordered, and as so modified, are continued.
DATED: Albany, New York
HOLLIS S. INGRAHAM, M.D
Commissioner of Health
the State of New York
TO: WATER RESOURCES COMMISSION
GREENWALD, KOVNER & GOLDSMITH
Attorneys for Respondent

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Robert D. Hennigan
LONG	ISLAND DUCK WASTE STUDY PILOT PLANT RESULTS
TOTAL SUSPENDED MATTER (ppm.)
Raw	Lagoon	Final
Date	Waste	Effluent	Effluent
12-12-66
12-15-66	606
1- 5-67	842	---	26
1-12-67	450	---	22
1-16-67	522	---	48
1-23-67	604	---	21
1-26-67	196	---	11
1-30-67	96	---	16
2-	2-67	654	---	10
2- 9-67	372	---	17
2-14-67	266	---	11
2-16-67	158	---	13
2-20-67	138	35	16
2-23-67	200	58	4.0
2-27-67	154	22	14
3-	2-67	98	22	16
3- 6-67	810	70	19
3-16-67	220	35	2.0
3-20-67	406	28	13
3-30-67	76	200	6
4-	3-67	184	52	16

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Robert D. Hennigan
LONG ISLAND DUCK WASTE STUDY PILOT PLANT RESULTS
NITRATE-N (ppm0)
Raw	Lagoon	Final
Date	Waste	Effluent	Effluent
12-12-66
12-15-66	6.6
1- 5-67	0.13	---	0.30
1-12-67	0.60			0.10
1-16-67	0.30	---	0.10
1-23-67	0.15	---	0.14
1-26-67	0.25	---	0.15
1-30-67	2.5	---	1.4
2-	2-67	2.0	---	1.8
2- 9-67	0.42	---	0.16
2-14-67	2.0	---	2.5
2-16-67	3.5	---	1.6
2-20-67	2.0	0.90	1.0
2-23-67	1.5	1.2	0.85
2-27-67	3.4	2.7	2.5
3-	2-67	3.3	3.2	1.9
3- 6-67	2.6	0.68	2.3
3-16-67	0.95	0.72	0.72
3-20-67	2.5	1.8	1.3
3-30-67	2.9	0.55	0.40
4-	3-67	0.95	0.45	1.00

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Robert D. Heanigan
LONG ISLAND DUCK WASTE STUDY PILOT PLANT RESULTS
TOTAL PO4 (ppm.)
Raw	Lagoon	Final
Date
Waste
Effluent
Effluent
12-12-66
	
	
	
12-15-66
87.5
	
	
1- 5-67
100
	
37.4
1-12-67
50.0
	
22.5
1-16-67
50.0
	
22.5
1-23-67
50.0
	
22.5
1-26-67
22.5
	
12.5
1-30-67
30.0
	
20.0
2- 2-67
40.0
	
12.5
2- 9-67
50.0
	
12.5
2-14-67
30.0
	
10.0
2-16-67
30.0
	
9.0
2-20-67
20.0
10.0
10.0
2-23-67
30.0
12.5
10.0
2-27-67
20.0
10.0
10.0
3- 2-67
20.0
14.0
14.0
3- 6-67
90.0
14.0
10.0
3-16-67
20.0
22.5
15.0
3-20-67
65.0
17.5
15.0
3-30-67
24.0
40.0
25.0
4- 3-67
38.0
25.0
22.0

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Robert D. Hennigan
LONG ISLAND DUCK WASTE STUDY PILOT PLANT RESULTS
SOLUBLE P04 (ppm.)
Date
Raw
Waste
Lagoon
Effluent
Final
Effluent
12-12-66
	
	
	
12-15-66
37.5
	
	
1- 5-67
6.6
	
12.4
1-12-67
7.4
	
8.3
1-16-67
16.6
	
8.3
1-23-67
6. 2
	
6.2
1-26-67
9.4
	
6.2
1-30-67
12.5
	
15.0
2- 2-67
20.0
	
10.0
2- 9-67
17.5
	
10.0
2-14-67
17 o 5
	
4.5
2-16-67
15.0
	
7.5
2-20-67
10.0
5.0
5.0
2-23-67
17.5
7.5
9.0
2-27-67
12.5
7.5
7.5
3- 2-67
14.0
10.0
10.0
3- 6-67
50.0
12.5
10.0
3-16-67
12.5
22.5
15.0
3-20-67
35.0
15.0
12.5
3-30-67
15.0
28.0
22.0
4- 3-67
28.0
25.0
19.0

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Robert D. Henriigan
LONG ISLAND DUCK WASTE STUDY PILOT PLANT RESULTS
BOD - 5 DAY
Date
Raw
Waste
Lagoon
Effluent
Final
Effluent
12-12-66
294
	
	
12-15-66
312
	
	
1- 5-67
213
	
28
1-12-67
191
	
34
1-16-67
163
	
24
1-23-67
120
	
15
1-26-67
145
	
4
1-30-67
64
	
	
2- 2-67
248
	
10
2- 9-67
198
	
23
2-14-67
130
	
16
2-16-67
128
	

2-20-67
75
27
20
2-23-67
90
28
10
2-27-67
64
19
9
3- 2-67
112
25
28
3- 6-67
340
39
24
3-16-67
580
42
62
3-20-67
150
19
10
3-30-67
35
80
24
4- 3-67
123
23
11

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Robert D. Hennigan
69
GREAT SOUTH BAY
LONG ISLAND, N. Y.
A BIBLIOGRAPHY
ANNUAL REPORT - 1965. Suffolk County Department
of Health.
ATLANTIC COAST OF LONG ISLAND, N. Y.; FIRE ISLAND
INLET AND SHORE WESTERLY TO JONES INLET. Review
report on Beach Erosion Control Cooperative Study.
U. S. Army Engineer District, New York, Corps of
Engineers, April 1963.
ATLANTIC COAST OF LONG ISLAND, N. Y.; FIRE ISLAND
INLET TO MONTAUK POINT. Cooperative Beach Erosion
Control and Interim Hurricane Study (Survey) with
Appendices. U. S. Army Engineer District, New
York, Corps of Engineers, July 1958.
A BIOLOGICAL SURVEY OF THE FRESH WATERS OF LONG
ISLAND. Supplemental to 28th Annual Report of
State of New York Conservation Department, 1938.
A BIOLOGICAL SURVEY OF THE SALT WATERS OF LONG
ISLAND, 1938. Parts I and II. A Joint Survey with
the U. S. Bureau of Fisheries Supplemental to 28th
Annual Report of State of New York Conservation
Department.

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70
Robert D Hennigan
Bumpus, Dean et al. REPORT ON A SURVEY OF THE
HYDROGRAPHY OF GREAT SOUTH BAY AND MORICHES BAY
MADE IN JULY 1954 FOR THE TOWNS OF ISLIP AND
BROOKHAVEN, NEW YORK. Woods Hole Oceanographic
Institution, Reference No. 54-85 (Unpublished
Manuscript) 1954.
CLASSIFICATIONS AND STANDARDS OF QUALITY AND
PURITY FOR FRESH SURFACE WATERS AND TIDAL SALT
WATERS WITHIN THE GREAT SOUTH BAY EASTERLY SEC-
TION DRAINAGE BASIN IN SUFFOLK COUNTY, N. Y.
New York State Department of Health, Water Pollu-
tion Control Board, 1954.
CLASSIFICATIONS AND STANDARDS OF QUALITY AND
PURITY FOR FRESH SURFACE WATERS AND TIDAL SALT
WATERS WITHIN THE MORICHES BAY DRAINAGE BASIN IN
SUFFOLK COUNTY, N. Y. New York State Department
of Health, Water Pollution Control Board, 1951.
COMPREHENSIVE PLAN FOR ABATEMENT OF POLLUTION,
GREAT SOUTH BAY EASTERLY SECTION. Water Pollution
Control Board, New York State Department of Health,
January 1954.
COMPREHENSIVE SEWERAGE STUDY AND REPORT PROGRAM:
STATUS OF PROJECTS. New York State Department of
Health, Bureau of Water Resource Services, June 1966.

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71
Robert D Hennigan
11c CONFERENCE IN THE MATTER OF POLLUTION OF THE
NAVIGABLE WATERS OF MORICHES BAY AND THE EASTERN
SECTION OF GREAT SOUTH BAY AND THEIR TRIBUTARIES.
Patchogue, N. Y., September 20-22, 1966. U. S.
Department of the Interior, Federal Water Pollu-
tion Control Administration, 1967.
12.	Cosulich, William F. TREATMENT OF WASTES FROM
LONG ISLAND DUCK FARMS, Report for Suffolk County,
New York, Department of Health, March 1966.
13.	DEMOGRAPHIC PROJECTIONS FOR NEW YORK STATE COUNTIES.
Office of Planning Coordination, New York State,
1 July 1966.
14.	EFFECT OF SYNTHETIC DETERGENTS ON THE GROUND WATERS
OF LONG ISLAND, NEW YORK. New York State Depart-
ment of Health, Water Pollution Control Board, Re-
search Report No. 6, 1960.
15.	EVALUATION OF EFFECTS ON GREAT SOUTH BAY OF NAVIGA-
TION CHANNEL IMPROVEMENTS IN FIRE ISLAND INLET,
LONG ISLAND, NEW YORK. U. S. Department of Health,
Education, and Welfare, Public Health Service,
Division of Water Supply and Pollution Control,
1963.
16.	Gates, C. D. TREATMENT OF LONG ISLAND DUCK FARM
WASTES. New York State Department of Health, Water

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Robert D Hennigan
Pollution Control Board, 1959.
17.	GREAT SOUTH BAY - EASTERLY SECTION DRAINAGE BASIN.
New York State Department of Health, Water Pollu-
tion Control Board, Suffolk County Survey Service
Report No. 3, July 1952.
18.	GREAT SOUTH BAY: SANITATION SURVEY REPORT AREA
IIIA-CONNETQUOT RIVER. New York State Conserva-
tion Department, Shellfish Sanitation and Engineer-
ing Services, 24 August 1965.
19.	GROUND WATER CLASSIFICATION AND STANDARDS. Proposed
by New York State Water Resources Commission, 3
March 1966.
20.	Guillard, R.R.L. et al. REPORT ON A SURVEY OF THE
CHEMISTRY, BIOLOGY, AND HYDROGRAPHY OF GREAT SOUTH
BAY AND MORICHES BAY CONDUCTED DURING JULY AND
SEPTEMBER 1959 FOR THE TOWNSHIPS OF ISLIP AND
BROOKHAVEN, NEW YORK. Woods Hole Oceanographic
Institution, Reference No. 60-15 (Unpublished
Manuscript) 1960.
21.	Heath, R. C., Foxworthy, B. L., and Cohen, Philip.
THE CHANGING PATTERN OF GROUND-WATER DEVELOPMENT
OF LONG ISLAND, NEW YORK. U. S. Department of the
Interior, Geological Survey Circular 524, 1966.
22.	Hoffman, J. F. and Lubke, E. R. GROUND WATER

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73
Robert D. Hennigan
LEVELS AND THEIR RELATIONSHIP TO GROUND-WATER
PROBLEMS IN SUFFOLK COUNTY, LONG ISLAND, NEW
YORK. U. S. Department of the Interior, Geologi-
cal Survey, Bulletin GW-44, 1961.
23.	HYDROLOGY OF THE BABYLON-ISLIP AREA, SUFFOLK
COUNTY, LONG ISLAND, NEW YORK. U. S. Department
of the Interior, Geological Survey Water Supply
Paper 1768, 1964.
24.	INVESTIGATION OF WASTES FROM DUCK FARMS IN SUFFOLK
COUNTY. New York State Department of Health, 1953.
25.	LONG ISLAND GROUND WATER POLLUTION STUDY (Pre-
liminary). Temporary New York State Water Re-
sources Planning Commission, 1 July 1963.
26.	LONG ISLAND GROUND WATER WITHDRAWAL FOR 1964, WITH
SUMMARY OF WATER CONSUMPTION AND DISPOSITION FROM
ALL SOURCES 1948-1964. New York State Water Re-
sources Commission, 1965.
27.	MAPPING OF GEOLOGIC FORMATIONS AND AQUIFERS OF
LONG ISLAND, NEW YORK. New York State Department
of Conservation, GW-18, 1949.
28.	MORICHES BAY DRAINAGE BASIN. New York State De-
partment of Health, Water Pollution Control Board,
Suffolk County Survey Service Report No. 1, July
1965.

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74
Robert D. Hennigan
29.	Morris, Grover L. DUCK-PROCESSING WASTE. U. S.
Department of Health, Education, and Welfare,
Public Health Service Publication No. 999-WP-31,
July 1965.
30.	PEOPLE, JOBS AND LAND, 1955-1975, IN THE NEW
JERSEY - NEW YORK - CONNECTICUT METROPOLITAN
REGION,, Regional Plan Association, Bulletin No.
87, June 1957.
31.	POPULATION SURVEY, 1966: CURRENT POPULATION ESTI-
MATES FOR NASSAU AND SUFFOLK COUNTIES. Long
Island Lighting.
32.	A PRELIMINARY EXAMINATION AND SURVEY OF MORICHES
AND SHINNECOCK INLETS, LONG ISLAND, NEW YORK.
Letter from the Secretary of the Army. House
Document No. 126, 1959.
33.	PROGRESS REPORT ON STREAMFLOW INVESTIGATIONS IN
SUFFOLK COUNTY, LONG ISLAND, NEW YORK, 1953-1957.
U. S. Department of the Interior, Geological Sur-
vey Open-File Report, December 1961.
34.	REPORT OF LONG ISLAND GROUND WATER WITHDRAWAL,
1956. New York State Water Power and Control Com-
mission, 1 May 1957.
35.	REPORT ON FACTORS AFFECTING THE POLLUTION OF GREAT
SOUTH BAY, LONG ISLAND, N. Y., WITH SPECIAL REFERENCE

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Robert D. Hennigan
75
TO ALGAE BLOOMS. New York State Department of
Health, 25 June 1962.
36.	REPORT ON NEED AND FEASIBILITY FOR PUBLIC SEWAGE
DISPOSAL FACILITIES IN WESTERN SUFFOLK. U. S.
Department of Health, Education, and Welfare,
Public Health Service, Sanitary Engineering Serv-
ices, 1962.
37.	REPORT ON POLLUTION OF MORICHES BAY AND EASTERN
SECTION OF GREAT SOUTH BAY, LONG ISLAND, NEW YORK.
U. S. Department of the Interior, Federal Water
Pollution Control Administration, Hudson-Champlain
and Metropolitan Coastal Comprehensive Water Pollu-
tion Control Project, 8 June 1966.
38.	REPORT ON POLLUTION OF THE NAVIGABLE WATERS OF
MORICHES BAY AND EASTERN SECTION OF GREAT SOUTH
BAY, LONG ISLAND, NEW YORK. U. S. Department of
the Interior, Federal Water Pollution Control Ad-
ministration, Hudson-Champlain and Metropolitan
Coastal Comprehensive Water Pollution Control Pro-
ject, September 1966.
39.	REPORT ON WATER POLLUTION CONTROL, NEW YORK - NEW
JERSEY METROPOLITAN AREA. Federal Security Agency,
Public Health Service, Division of Water Pollution
Control, July 1951.

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Robert D. Hermigan
40.	REPORT ON WATER QUALITY: MORICHES BAY AND THE
EASTERN SECTION OF GREAT SOUTH BAY, LONG ISLAND,
NEW YORK. New York State Department of Health,
Division of Pure Waters, September 1966.
41.	Ryther, John H., Vaccaro, Ralph F., Yentsch,
Charles S. REPORT ON A SURVEY OF THE CHEMISTRY
AND HYDROGRAPHY OF GREAT SOUTH BAY AND MORICHES
BAY MADE IN AUGUST, 1956, FOR THE TOWN OF ISLIP,
NEW YORK. Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution,
Reference No. 56-70 (Unpublished Manuscript) 1956.
42.	Ryther, John H. et al. REPORT ON A SURVEY OF THE
CHEMISTRY AND HYDROGRAPHY OF GREAT SOUTH BAY AND
MORICHES BAY MADE IN JUNE, 1957, FOR THE TOWN OF
ISLIP, NEW YORK. Woods Hole Oceanographic Insti-
tution, Reference No. 57-59 (Unpublished Manu-
script) 1957.
43.	Ryther, John H. et al. REPORT ON A SURVEY OF THE
CHEMISTRY, BIOLOGY AND HYDROGRAPHY OF GREAT SOUTH
BAY AND MORICHES BAY CONDUCTED DURING JUNE AND
SEPTEMBER, 1958, FOR THE TOWNSHIPS OF ISLIP AND
BROOKHAVEN, LONG ISLAND, NEW YORK. Woods Hole
Oceanographic Institution, Reference No. 58-57
(Unpublished Manuscript) 1958.
44.	SOUTH SHORE OF LONG ISLAND FROM FIRE ISLAND INLET

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77
Robert D Hennigan
TO MONTAUK POINT, NEW YORK. BEACH EROSION CONTROL
STUDY AND HURRICANE SURVEY. Letter from the Sec-
retary of the Army, House Document No. 425, I960.
45.	STATISTICAL ABSTRACT OF NASSAU AND SUFFOLK COUNTIES.
The Franklin National Bank of Long Island, 1962.
46.	STATUS OF THE TREATMENT OF DUCK WASTES IN SUFFOLK
COUNTY, 1958 Season.
47.	STATUS OF THE TREATMENT OF DUCK WASTES IN SUFFOLK
COUNTY, 1961 Season. Suffolk County Department of
Health.
48.	Stevens, Donald B. and Peters, John. LONG ISLAND
RECHARGE STUDIES. Presented at the Water Pollution
Control Federation Meeting. 11 October 1965, At-
lantic City, New Jersey.
49.	STUDIES OF FRESH WATER STREAMS AND GROUND WATERS
ENTERING GREAT SOUTH BAY. Long Island State Park
Commission, New York State Health Department,
1961.
50.	A STUDY OF WATER CIRCULATION IN PARTS OF GREAT
SOUTH BAY, LONG ISLAND. Department of Health,
Education, and Welfare, R. A. Taft Sanitary En-
gineering Center (Unpublished Manuscript) 1962.
51.	SURVEY REPORT - MORICHES AND SHINNECOCK INLETS,
LONG ISLAND, NEW YORK. U. S. Army Engineer

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78
Robert D. Hennigan
District, New York, Corps of Engineers, 1963.
52.	SURFACE WATERS OF WESTERN SUFFOLK COUNT*. New
York State Department of Health, Water Resources
Commission, Suffolk County Survey Series Report
No. 6, 1963.
53.	TIDE TABLES, EAST COAST, NORTH AND SOUTH AMERICA
INCLUDING GREENLAND, U. S. Department of Commerce,
Coast and Geodetic Survey, 1967.
54.	Wilson, Ronald S., Wilson and Brenowitz, A. Harry.
A REPORT ON THE ECOLOGY OF GREAT SOUTH BAY AND
ADJACENT WATERS. Adelphi University Institute of
Marine Science, July 1966.
55.	WITHDRAWAL OF GROUND WATER, New York State Depart-
ment of Conservation, Water Power and Control
Commission, December 1951.
56.	Riley, Gordon A., 1948. HYDROGRAPHY OF THE WESTERN
ATLANTIC: THE LONG ISLAND AND BLOCK ISLAND SOUNDS.
Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution, Woods Hole,
Massachusetts. Technical Report No. 11, pp. 1 - 30.
57.	Redfield, Alfred C., 1951. REPORT ON SURVEY OF THE
HYDROGRAPHY OF GREAT SOUTH BAY MADE DURING THE
SUMMER OF 1950 FOR THE TOWN OF ISLIP, NEW YORK.
Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution, Woods Hole,
Massachusetts. Reference No. 50-48, pp. 1 - 30.

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79
Robert D. Hennigan
58.	Redfield, Alfred C., 1952. REPORT TO THE TOWNS
OF BROOKHAVEN AND ISLIP, NEW YORK, ON THE HYDRO-
GRAPHY OF GREAT SOUTH BAY AND MORICHES BAY.
Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution, Woods Hole,
Massachusetts, Reference No. 52-26, pp. 1 - 80.
59.	Riley, Gordon A., et al, 1956. OCEANOGRAPHY OF
LONG ISLAND SOUND, 1952-1954. BULLETIN OF THE
BINGHAM OCEANOGRAPHIC COLLECTION, Peabody Museum
of Natural History, Yale University, Volume XV,
pp. 1 - 414.
60.	DUCK WASTE - POLLUTION ABATEMENT AND TREATMENT,
R. Rupert Kountz and Raymond C. Loehr for New York
State Department of Health, September 1966.
ooOoo
BIBLIOGRAPHY
SELECTED BIBLIOGRAPHY: HUDSON - MOHAWK AND LONG ISLAND,
New York State Water Resources Commission 1965.
PERIODICALS
1.	Barlow, John P., Lorenzen, C. J., and Myren R. T.
EUTROPHICATION OF A TIDAL ESTUARY. Limnology and Oceano-
graphy 8 (2): 251-262, April 1963.
2.	GEOLOGY AND GROUND-WATER SUPPLIES OF THE SOUTH SHORE
BEACHES OF LONG ISLAND, N. Y. Annals of the New York Acadenv

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80
Robert D. Hennigan
of Sciences 80: 1060-76, September 21, 1959.
3. WATER RESOURCES SUMMARY, LONG ISLAND, N. Y. February
1966 to date.
ooOoo

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84
Robert D, Hennigan
MR. HENNIGAN: That concludes the report of the
Coordinating Committee.
MR. STEIN: Thank you, Mr. Hennigan, for an
excellent report. This is as good a report as I have seen
in the field. The remarkable thing about it is that we
have such a broad representative group working on it
Sometimes you get a crackerjack report when you have one
agency or just a few people working on it, but it is amazing,
with the wide divergent interests working on this report,
that we were able to get such an excellent report.
We have to commend the chairman, Mr. Hennigan,
and his committee very highly. The report is clear and, for
the subject matter, concise and precise.
Are there any other comments or questions at
this time on the report?
(There was no response.)
MR. STEIN: If not, we will recess for ten min-
utes .
Those speakers wishing to appear should make
their arrangements to do so during the recess.
(After a short recess.)
MR. STEIN: May we reconvene?
As always in these conferences, the situation
begins to clarify itself, at least as to the length of the

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85
proceedings.
It seems apparent, from the complexity and
thoroughness of the committee's report and recommendations
and the reaction to them, that the conferees probably will
need an executive session.
What we intend to do now is call on New York
State to call their participants and invitees. We will
proceed until about 12:30, and then we will see where we
stand. At the present time, it is contemplated that we
probably will recess at that time for lunch. After lunch,
if there are any more statements, these will then be pre-
sented. Then the conferees will have an executive session,
following which we will make an announcement.
I am confident that with the cooperation of the
participants, if you can gauge your time, we can be con-
cluded by this afternoon and get you out at a reasonable
hour in order to beat the rush hour.
With that, Mr. Metzler, may I call on you again?
MR. METZLER: We do have several who have asked
for the privilege of making statements. We have five, Mr.
Chairman, at the moment who would like to testify.
So, if Mr. Dennison is prepared, let's start
with him, and he will be followed by Mr. Waldbauer, the
Mayor of Patchogue.

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H,, Lee Dennisoti
86
STATEMENT OF MR. H. LEE DENNISON,
COUNTY EXECUTIVE, SUFFOLK COUNTY,
RIVERHEAD, NEW YORK
MR. DENNISO!^: Mr. Chairman, I must take slight
issue with your somewhat glowing remarks about the report,
in that after nine months I had hoped for a little bigger
and better baby, at least a greater scope, and certainly
more firm recommendations about our problems of pollution.
I noted in the report itself some sixty odd
studies, and we in our Department of Public Works have
another twenty or twenty-four, something like that. Con-
tinuing studies have been going on since about 1931.
I am trying to relate another report to your
statement, which I appreciate and like very much, that abate-
ment has not been adequate and that the Federal Government
can enforce action. This is what I am interested in, much
more than reports and more reports.
The report is not or could not possibly be as
complete as I had hoped, when you are studying a part of
what is an overall pattern, every bit of which relates to
each other bit in the overall pattern.
I will be very brief here and try to mention two
or three things that are in my mind about this report and

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H. Lee Dennison
87
about the problem.
You are aware of our situation concerning the
present status of our sewage disposal program. You remember
that it was rejected by a six to one vote. They are pre-
sently in the process of trying to regain public confidence
and get this off the ground and in the works, as part of
the abatement of pollution in Great South Bay, and certainly
the protection of our fresh water supply.
I must take some issue with other things also
in the report. For example, some of the recommendations
have to do with the dredging of duck sludge. I said nine
months ago, or whenever the initial meeting was here, and
I say again today that there is only one simple answer to
me of pollution from the duck farms, and when you are talking
of dredging the sludge from the duck farms as a measure of
abatement of pollution, I try to get across that this is
somewhat useless. We have been trying to do this for years.
I will make a statement that is off the top of
my head here. I would ask possibly, if necessary, for some
support from Commissioner Kammerer of our Public Works who
is here, but I would firmly believe, without actual data,
that it would take our county dredge working day and night,
every day of the year, not less than five full years to even
begin to clean up the duck sludge that is polluting Great

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H. Lee Dennison
88
South Bay, even if there were no more ducks.
So, when you are talking of dredging, small
dredging projects to get at the abatement of pollution by
this means, as far as I am concerned it is like a penny on
a meat block toward meeting the problem.
As far as the inlet itself is concerned, which
was taken up considerably in this study, we have been moving
on the inlet project, obviously more than this report is
aware.
The County did this last year complete a new
northwest channel of dredging in the Moriches Inlet area
200 feet wide and 12 feet deep. This was done not only for
navigation, but again to help alleviate the pollution prob-
lem by a better flushing action.
So far it has been very successful, this new
channel that we have undertaken at great expense, and this
is only a part of the County expense of trying to do some-
thing more about Moriches Inlet ali these past thirty years.
We have a list of our expenditures.
But, along the same lines, we had hoped again
for more action and less studies concerning the inlets. I
must say here that we have to consider talking now from an
engineering standpoint. We cannot consider these inlets
each by themselves. We have to consider Moriches Inlet in

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H. Lee Dennison
89
company with Fire Island Inlet and with Shinnecock Inlet so
as to get the overall pattern to meet the pollution, the
navigation, and the flushing problems
We have tried for the last going on eight years
to get both Shinnecock and Moriches Inlet rebuilt. This is
the way the Corps of Engineers set it up. The Board of
Supervisors is on record, I think not less than three times,
committing itself to its proper share of the cost of the
rebuilding and improving of both Moriches and Shinnecock
Inlets together as a single project.
As a matter of fact, only last week for a couple
of days here in Suffolk County, the Chief of the Corps of
Engineers was with us here, and we expended our efforts to-
wards action rather than more studies for both of these
inlets, again as a single project.
We would accept a project for just Moriches
Inlet alone, but to me it is not meeting the problem again
in the overall pattern, and as a result of our conversations
with the General last week, we are hopeful of construction
action without any more studies coming out of our ears rela-
tive thereto.
We have had complete plans ready to go in the
last seven or eight years for the rebuilding of these inlets,
yg 3^g ready to build, and. this to 1 important thing,

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H. Lee Dennison
90
in our pollution problem in the bay -- important for one
simple reason, one reason contributory to why we did the
dredging this last year at Moriches Inlet.
There are not less than 50 million tons of sand
that have come in these two inlets and shoaled in the inner
bay. This to me is the one major key to our pollution prob-
lem, that both inlets -- and again both inlets -- must be
considered as a pair as far as the by-passing proposal is
concerned. In other words, if you do the westerly one first
and start talking of by-passing sand there, you are in an
immediate problem with not having by-passed the sand at
Shinnecock Inlet, which is to the east.
They have to be worked together, and this sort
of thing is what I hoped this report would have emphasized
a little more clearly.
I will not spell out the amount of money that
the County has spent along these lines. I won't spend any
more time on our own sewage disposal program, which I am
quite confident we will get off the ground within the coming
months, if not sooner.
I would support the proposed model of Great
South Bay, not for Fire Island or Moriches or Shinnecock
Inlets, but for trying to determine whether or not a new
inlet would be helpful. This to me would be the major

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Ho Lee Dennison
91
objective of such a model study, and I expect probably,
talking again off the top of my hat, that a new inlet would
be very helpful between Moriches and Fire Island Inlets.
I had hoped also that this report would have
something to do with whether or not it was within the juris-
diction, concerning the legality relating to the lands under
the waters of all of Great South Bay. As you know, we have
a thing going here in Suffolk County called "Home Rule,"
and jurisdictions of lands under waters from the Kings Grant
and that sort of thing.
Regardless of all the studies you make, these
legalities also have to be straightened out now before we
get too far with studies or anything else, so that we can
overcome what needs to be overcome in order to produce real
effective action.
Thank you for permitting me to be heard.
MR. STEIN: Thank you, Mr. Dennison.
Are there any comments or questions?
Mr. Metzler.
MR. METZLER: Well, I think the criticism of the
report is very constructive.
MR. DENNISON: Thank you.
MR. METZLER: We too are interested in much more
action than in writing reports. I am grateful to you for

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H. Lee Dennison
92
pointing out the areas in which you think we have erred
most. I am particularly interested in the matter of dealing
with the problem of sewering the built up areas here, which
you referred to as having a referendum on
Is there any action which the conferees can
take from this chair which would lend support to your efforts
on the sewering?
MR. DENNISON: I would strongly recommend that
your group, from your position of strength and authority in
having the power of enforcement for the abatement of pollu-
tion, and I would ask that you use this just as loudly and
clearly as you can to help us at the county level in our
efforts, and the State level in our efforts to get the sew-
age disposal program underway.
If you want to call it a threat or club or what-
ever, we need it. We need your help.
MR. METZLER: Another question along that line.
How important is the Federal guaranteeing of mortgage money
to new development down here? What would happen if that
were made available only for homes that were on public sewer
systems?
MR. DENNISON: That is a new thought, and I like
it. I like it very much.
MR. METZLER: I will tell you it won't be the

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93
H. Lee Dennison
first time it is being used.
MR. DENNISON: So long as there is enough of a
spread here to not ruin the industry as such, the idea is
wonderful, excellent. I like it. This again would be very
helpful in helping us to get this program on the road.
If there is any question, I think out of our
fiasco, as I call it, of the public referendum on sewers did
come one thing: A general acceptance by the public of the
need for sewers. There is no question of this in my mind.
Now we have to get at the ways and means of
administration and financing particularly, and just a little
touch of a threat of enforcement here and there would be
very helpful.
MR. METZLER: Thank you.
MR. STEIN: Mr. Dennison, I think your comments
have been very helpful. However, when you talk about a threat
or a club, I don't know that we have a threat or a club.
You are in an enforcement action now. This is
why the State people are here and this is why we are here.
We just carry out the law. What we do is we move inexorably,
and the law prescribes the way we move.
The first session of the conference found, and
this was agreed to by the Secretary of the Interior, that
the waters of Moriches Bay and Great South Bay, which we are

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H. Lee Dennison
94
considering here, are polluted. We intend to clean those
waters up, and we are right in the midst of an action here.
Now, I think, the studies are over. This was
not in the nature, as I saw the sixty references here, of
a new study.
When you have a lot of studies, you have adher-
ence to these various studies going around them. We got
the State people, the Federal people and the shellfish people
together, and I think the remarkable thing is that they got
a consensus, as much as we did here.
As far as I can see, and I am just speaking for
myself, the days of studies are over. We know where to go,
and we are looking for action.
On your specifics in dealing with the duck
sludge, I think we mean the same thing. As I look at the
duck sludge, whether you don't have ducks tomorrow or whether
you do have ducks tomorrow, we have a legacy from past his-
torical experience here of residues of duck sludge. Unless
that is cleaned up, you are going to have a continuing source
of pollution as the action comes in and takes it away.
In other words, no matter what we do, it seems
to me that if we are going to have clean waters in this area,
we have to get rid of the duck sludge as one of our problems.
You cannot have clean water and leave the duck sludge there.

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H0 Lee Dennison
95
Let us assume that we could wave a magic wand
and, just for the assumption, abolish all ducks from the
face of the earth, Heaven forbid. I love them. But let's
suppose we could do it. You would still have to clean up
the duck sludge in this area to get clean water.
In other words, I think we can all agree on the
issue that we have a legacy of duck sludge that must be
removed if we are going to have clean water. The only ways
as the committee points out, is to get a realistic dredging
program and get rid of it. Otherwise you are never going
to have clean water.
MR. DENNISON: No question about this. All I
was trying to get across is that you start cleaning the
sludge, which is inevitable and must be done, and it is not
necessarily successful where more sludge is coming.
MR. STEIN: That's right. There were two recom-
mendations of Mr. Hennigan's group: The stopping of more
sludge, but the getting rid of the existing sludge. This
has to be done.
MR. DENNISON: Right.
MR. STEIN: We just have to face that fact.
Just one more point, and that is on your inlet
problem. In the Congress, we go before the Public Works
Committee, the same as the Corps of Engineers.

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H. Lee Dennison
96
Mr. Metzler, both in Kansas City and here, has
long been familiar with engineering projects, and I know
that from your meetings with the General you are no doubt
familiar with them too.
The way we approve these projects is a prescribed
one that has grown up historically in our country.
MR. DENNISON: Right.
MR. STEIN: We go through certain moves. If
you were a foreigner and looked at the system, you would
figure it could not possibly work, but it does.
In a democracy, we all get a little frustrated
with that system at times. I do think the way to get these
desirable projects, if we are all agreed on them, is to get
the State group interested in your problem, the Federal
group interested in your problem, and your local group and
all the ipdustries here setting up a solid and completely
united front. In my experience, the one thing that has de-
layed these projects more than anything else is if there is
a notion that there is division.
There is nothing that will move a project like
your inlet project and your public works projects through
faster than if we can all stay on the same sled and not get
shaken loose, because that is what moves the projects ahead.
MR. DENNISON: Let me say, Mr. Stein, on behalf

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H. Lee Dennison
97
of the County, that the splendid work of your group and the
splendid studies that are coming out from the committee is
the farthest along we have ever been in this County, and
this is very wonderful.
There is only one little catch as far as some
of us in Suffolk County are concerned. That word "inexorable"
that you mentioned is sometimes awfully slow.
MR. STEIN: It may be awfully slow, but it is as
fast as we can push it.
MR. DENNISON: We realize that.
MR. STEIN: Very well. Thank you.
Mr. Metzler?
MR. METZLER: Next is the Mayor of Patchogue,
Mr. Robert Waldbauer.
STATEMENT OF HONORABLE ROBERT
T. WALDBAUER, MAYOR, VILLAGE OF
PATCHOGUE, LONG ISLAND, NEW YORK
MAYOR WALDBAUER: Thank you, Mr. Metzler.
Gentlemen, this morning it is only my object to
try to be a bit informative as to the position of the Vil-
lage of Patchogue and the Patchogue Sewage Treatment Plant,
as far as information to the committee is concerned, and
if I may make one or two small suggestions.

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Robert T. Waldbauer
98
First of all, I have a release in front of me
dated August 21, 1966. The Water Pollution Control Adminis-
tration puts this release out, I would assume. I am sure
they have no idea of the headaches which they created, but
they did.
The reason for it was the paragraph where they
said:
"A spokesman for the Interior Federal Water
Pollution Control Administration said that their
study indicates widespread pollution of the bays
which comes from numerous adjoining duck farms.
In addition, the bacterial pollution gets through
the sewage treatment plant in the Village of
Patchogue."
Gentlemen, that was interpreted to mean in this
area that the Village of Patchogue was solely responsible
for polluting the entire Great South Bay, and where I spent
months in trying to answer that small little paragraph, I
could have spent them, I think, more constructively.
I also received another release dated June 9th,
which arrived at my office June 19th, just the day before
yesterday, telling us about the meeting today. It took
some doing, because we are interested. We have proof of our
interest, but may I suggest that we would like to get a little

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Robert T. Waldbauer
advance notice on when these things are going to be held,
and we might prepare ourselves a little better.
For the information of the committee, the Vil-
lage of Patchogue as far back as 1958 had a program for
expanding our sewage district.
In 1950 or thereabouts, a brand new plant was
built in the Village of Patchogue. We are rather proud of
the plant, and it does an excellent job. We have daily re-
ports, weekly reports and monthly reports, all being approved
by the County Health Department, and I am sure that the
plant is in good operation and is doing the job it was meant
to do, and serves the purpose it was meant to serve on its
construction in 1950.
However, on May 2, 1966, I received a letter
from Mr. Hennigan, and although two years ago we felt there
would be need for the expansion of our sewage plant and
started negotiations at that time for a parcel of property
directly adjacent to our plant in order that we might be
able to have the room to expand it, and now are under con-
tract and we are trying to get the title cleared and we will
have title on the property, I am sure, very shortly  two
years ago we started, so we were even a little bit ahead of
Mr, Hennigan's letter of May 2nd, not knowing, however, that
this was coming.

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Robert T. Waldbauer
100
But on May 2nd, Mr Hennigan wrote and said that
we would be required to put in secondary treatment, and we
were led to believe from the remarks in the letter that we
had until approximately March of 1972, because this is when
he said that financial assistance to meet this obligation
is available under the Construction Grant Program in the
amount of 60 percent of the eligible cost, and the grant
program expires in March of 1972, so we took from that that
we had until March of 1972.
We answered his letter on the 23rd of May. We
got in touch with the engineering firm that does all of the
Village's work and has done for the last ten or fifteen
years, and we were informed by the engineer that there were
comprehensive study moneys available, and he suggested that
we make a comprehensive study possibly of the entire Village,
so that by late spring of last year we had started to work.
We have submitted two applications through the
County Health Department, and I might add that the real as-
sistance that we have had so far has been from the County
Health Department, both applications being rejected. The
second application was rejected on April 20, 1967, and we
have a letter from the State of New York Department of
Health explaining why.
Gentlemen, I can understand that there are

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Robert T. Waldbauer
101
problems on your level as well as on our level, but I think
two things are important for me this morning.
1.	I would respectfully request that the Water
Pollution Control Administration eliminate remarks regard-
ing the Village of Patchogue and its sewage treatment plant
in their news releases until such time as they are completely
familiar with the efforts that we are making. It will make
it easier for us.
2.	I would ask that much better and much closer
communication be established between the agencies involved.
Gentlemen, I am not familiar with nor am I really
particularly interested in your complete report. I am re-
sponsible for and wish to do the best I can for the Village
of Patchogue.
We have a sewage treatment plant. We want to
put in secondary treatment. We are making arrangements to
put in secondary treatment. We will do anything necessary
to improve the status of our residents in the entire Village,
not just the business district.
I would ask that we discontinue putting the
stumbling blocks in our way. I understand that somewhere
in this wide, wide world there are Federal and State moneys
available, and if you will just give me a hint as to where
they might be, I will dig them out and we will build the

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Robert T. Waldbauer
plant, but let's get together.
We are talking about action. The Village of
Patchogue, and I wish to go on record as showing and proving
that the Village of Patchogue started its action before this
committee was originated. We are continuing to work, and
work hard at it, but we are going to get nowhere unless we
get better communications.
We started a year ago this month. We have
wasted a year. I understand from the report -- and it is
not in the written report that 1 have a copy of this morning,
but Mr. Hennigan mentioned somewheres that there was a date
of November 1969 for finalizing our secondary treatment
plant.
You have taken two years off one end and we have
wasted one year already. Now it's getting short. We need
your assistance. We need the proper information, and we
need much better communications.
We will build it. Just give us the money.
MR. STEIN: Are there any questions or comments?
This has been very helpful.
MAYOR WALDBAUER: That is my purpose, Mr. Stein.
Quite frankly, I am not trying to be facetious with this at
all, but we have some facts that ju&t do not coordinate them-
selves .

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Robert T. Waldbauer
103
On several occasions, in a number of releases,
the Village has been put in a very poor picture with regard
to our plant, and, quite frankly, we object to it, because
this is not a true evaluation for the public.
MR. STEIN: I will get to that in a minute.
The essential point is that we are together on
providing adequate treatment and we are all working for
that. You, speaking for the Village of Patchogue, know
that is required.
I don't have any of our information or public
relations people here now. I always hesitate to speak when
we don't have the people who put these things out, but, you
know, you have given me a double-edged sword.
I get these releases. I have no recollection of
seeing this one before it went out. This may be because I
travel around the country, and obviously they don't show
you these things when you are not there. However, I get
packs of these on my desk each day, maybe twenty or thirty
of them stapled together, which are all put out.
Going back to what you said, my contention is
why are we putting out all these reams of paper? Who reads
thein? I 'm afraid that if I come back with your complaintfe,
-they will be confirmed in the fact that, lo and behold,
someone out there reads these, so X don't know which is going

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Robert T. Waldbauer
104
to be worse.
MAYOR WALDBAUER: You see, we have it easier on
our level of government, because we are at such a low level
that we handle our own public relations work, so we can more
determine what goes out.
MR. STEIN: I think, though, you do have a
legitimate and a serious complaint. It certainly was not
intended that Patchogue was to be singled out as a polluter
here.
MAYOR WALDBAUER: I'm sure it wasn't, Mr. Stein.
MR. STEIN: In the way it was stated, I don't
think, while it could have been interpreted that way, and
no doubt locally was --
MAYOR WALDBAUER: It was. It was. We had the
job of explaining it.
MR. STEIN: I don't think that the information
man had that in mind as he wrote it. He probably was look-
ing for a name and an example. Again, I am surmising here
too. Perhaps the reason Patchogue was picked was because
that was where we were going to have the conference. That
was the location of the conference. Maybe if we had said
we were having it in Brookhaven, they would not have picked
Patchogue.
I think your statement in the record speaks for

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Robert T Waldbauer
105
itself. As far as I can see, Patchogue has indicated its
willingness to join an integrated system or improve the
system on reasonable terms, as deal realistically with the
pollution problems.
If we had this attitude from all the industry
and all the political subdivisions here, we would be a long
way towards cleaning up our pollution problem.
Your record is one that should not be hidden.
I think it is just fine, because, generally speaking, in
dealing with pollution problems throughout the country,
when we run into a mayor who has the view and the attitude
that you have, we can always work out an equitable solution
satisfactory to all. I want to commend you for this.
I regret that that appeared in the release.
Again, let me say that while I regret it, when you ask me
what we can do about it, I am not sure. We have a very big
Department. It is not as big as the one I used to be in,
but it is very big. We have a tremendous staff.
By the way, I checked with Mr. DeFalco and asked
him if he had read this before it came out. He did not.
There is no reason why we should when we are out working in
the field. The point is that I think it is inevitable in
big business, wherever it is, that things like this will
occur.

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106
Robert T. Waldbauer
I am going to go back and, as zealously as I
can, call this to their attention and try to find out why
it happened, but to give you an assurance that we have some
kind of system to prevent things like this from happening
again, I would just be deluding you and myself if I told
you I could do it.
MAYOR WALDBAUER: This isn't my point, Mr.
Stein, and I don't mean to be belaboring the issue either.
As far as I am concerned, you can go back and
just tell them that for public relations purposes Patchogue
doesn't exist. Just put a cover on the map to cover us up.
Let's get to the work that is involved. Let's
get down to the business that we are trying to accomplish.
I am asking for more and much closer and much better com-
munications so that we can get this next application in.
Let's get it off the ground. Let's let the Federal and the
State people understand what we are trying to do. Let's
get approval for it. Let's get our study and our survey
done, and let's get to the construction.
MR. STEIN: May I give you one more point? I
am just thinking of the future. Here is the best way you
can stop it. If anything like this or a comparable incident
happens to any of you, remember that we are just as far away,
or the State is, as your telephone. As far as I am concerned,

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Robert T. Waldbauer
107
we accept collect calls. If anything like this should hap-
pen to come up and you think it comes out of our office,
just call up. If you do, maybe we can straighten it out.
MAYOR WALDBAUER: Thank you.
MR. STEIN: Are there any other questions?
MR. METZLER: I wanted to say merely that you
raised three points that were particularly important, I
thought. The first was the poor notice, and that is our
fault. This conference was called on relatively short
notice, and I don't believe we did get it out actually, and
I apologize to you for that.
Now, on the point concerning the matter of aid
for comprehensive planning, I am not familiar with the de-
tails. I would assume that you did not qualify for one
reason or another. But we will take a look at this. We
certainly should have been working back and forth, so that
instead of submitting an application and going through all
this business, we ought to have been discussing this so that
you knew whether you were eligible or not.
MAYOR WALDBAUER: I think, Mr. Metzler, your
department has been working in our interest.
MR. METZLER: Yes.
MAYOR WALDBAUER: But without our knowledge, and
this is the problem.

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Robert T. Waldbauer
108
MR. METZLER: If I were you, I would be worried
about that too.
MAYOR WALDBAUER: I am worried about it.
MR. METZLER: I'm always worried about people
who are working in my interest.
Certainly, on the construction phases of this,
the State of New York can guarantee you 60 percent construc-
tion assistance, and because of the way the program is set
up, we may be able to go as high, cooperatively with the
Federal Government, as 85 percent on the pumping stations
and so forth.
MAYOR WALDBAUER: We should be submitting our
comprehensive study application again possibly before the
end of this month, or by certainly next month. If you would
alert your people to the fact that the application is coming
through, we would appreciate it. We would like some coopera-
tion with it. If there is anything wrong, let's get in
touch. Let's not waste the time with correspondence. Let's
know what they are doing or what they wish. We will be glad
to comply.
But let us get this thing going, so that, quite
frankly, I would be very pleased to be one of the first to
be able to start to finalize the plans that this committee
has set up.

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Robert T. Waldbauer
109
We agree with the committee completely, but it
isn't just a matter of the Village of Patchogue going to
be required to put this in. We are waiting to start.
Thank you.
MR. STEIN: Thank you, Mayor.
Mr. Metzler?
MR. METZLER: Mrs. Wallace has asked for an
opportunity to be heard.
STATEMENT OF MRS. ELIZABETH M.
WALLACE, DIRECTOR, OYSTER IN-
STITUTE OF NORTH AMERICA,
SAYVILLE, NEW YORK
MRS. WALLACE: I am Elizabeth Wallace, Director
of the Oyster Institute of North America, a trade associa-
tion representing the clam and oyster producers of our
country.
We welcome this opportunity to reinforce the
motivation of the Department of Health of New York and of
the Department of the Interior in hopes of achieving the
maximum beneficial uses of our local waters which are under
consideration today.
It would be hard to overemphasize the sense and

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Elizabeth M. Wallace
110
interest in the quality of our waters. It was amply rein-
forced by the Clean Waters Act that New York passed. Sub-
sequently the people of New York gave a mandate to their
representatives by voting to spend one billion dollars to
clean up the waters of New York. This set a national
precedent -- if you will, a star in the sky that lighted
the path for other States to emulate.
I would like to share with you some experiences
that we had in testifying that resulted in the Water Quality
Act by the Federal Government, which instituted this confer-
rence today.
As a result of New York's action, testimony
after testimony was given by people. Those contrary to the
legislation said, "If you will let us alone, we can do as
New York is doing." Those in favor said, "Will the Federal
Government please move in so that our State can afford to
do what New York says they are going to do?"
I think that we should realize here locally how
the leadership of Governor Rockefeller and his ability and
his vision are recognized throughout our State.
As a result of the Clean Waters Act, Mr. Dwight
Metzler was recruited from the State of Kansas. He is
nationally known for his expertees in this field, and I
would like to share with you that his colleagues consider

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Elizabeth M0 Wallace
him totally incorruptible. He has at his right hand Robert
Hennigan, who is both dedicated and able and responsible
for the report that you heard today.
Our industry and we as citizens wish to support
and encourage our State to achieve these goals to which this
conference today is dedicated.
Thank you.
MR. STEIN: Thank you, Mrs. Wallace.
MR. METZLER: Might I make a simple remark? I
was worried about the "incorruptible" word. I was sure it
would come out the way I heard it more often, "incorrigible."
Thank you.
The next statement is by Nelson Houck of the
Long Island Duck Growers Association.
STATEMENT OF MR. NELSON D. HOUCK,
GENERAL MANAGER, LONG ISLAND DUCK
FARMERS CO-OPERATIVE, EASTPORT,
NEW YORK
MR. HOUCK: Conferees, Ladies and Gentlemen:
I am Nelson Houck. I represent all of Long
Island's duck farmers. I have just a few quick comments

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Nelson D. Houck
112
here as to progress that has been made with the abatement
of our problem.
I would first want to turn to Page 22 where
you mentioned two different farms. The Paul Chornoma Duck
Farm is out of operation, so obviously there is no problem
there. The Carman River Duck Farm, which you refer to here,
has submitted preliminary plans for treatment. They have
now engaged Don Young and Bill Cosulich to finalize plans
by August 1st to submit to the Department of Health. We have
eighteen other farms that at the present time, at least, have
Don Young and Bill Cosulich engaged to draw final plans to
N
submit them by August 1st. Already one farm has completed
the plans. Bill Cosulich has submitted that, and he is work-
ing on others at the present time.
There are a total of 40 duck farms. Five of
the farms either are out of business or will be out of
business by the end of this year, so that leaves 35 farms.
We have held several meetings. We have had
various correspondence with each one to the point where,
referring to Page 45, Conclusions and Recommendations,
Number 5, we have had the cooperation and the understanding
amongst these growers that they will complete all the plans
for a cooperative approach to handling of the various tests,
and we have a central location, so that I think that that

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Nelson D. Houck
113
Number 5 will be carried out as the committee has recom-
mended .
Now, with reference to tests by the pilot plant
by the Department of Health, it has far exceeded the stand-
ards and expectations that we had expected, and, therefore,
with the primary and secondary treatment that this plant on
each farm will handle, I am confident that our problem will
be solved and I am confident that we will meet the require-
ments of the Department of Health in every possible way.
Thank you.
MR. STEIN: Thank you very much, sir.
Are there any comments or questions?
(There was no response.)
MR. STEIN: I would like to commend your industry
on their approach and attitude. You know, we have had this
problem a long time. I am beginning more and more to see
the possibility that some people didn't see years ago, that
ducks and oysters are compatible.
Mir. Metzler?
MR. METZLER: I merely want to say that a few
yers ago, I think it would have been impossible to have
made the amount of progress that has been made on the attack
of actually treating these wastes and adequate practices.
This, of course, was theoretical. They have cooperated very

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Hugh Mercer
nicely and deserve a great deal of credit for this.
MR. HOUCK: Thank you.
MR. METZLER: I will next call on Mr. Hugh
Mercer of the Bluepoints Company.
STATEMENT OF MR. HUGH MERCER,
PRESIDENT, BLUEPOINTS COMPANY,
INC., WEST SAYVILLE, NEW YORK
MR. MERCER: I'm Hugh Mercer, President of the
Bluepoints Company, shell fishermen.
I'm a local pest, and therefore have viewed the
whole proceedings with suspicion and cynicism. However, I
must admit that we have been favorably impressed, if I may
use an outmoded disreputable adjective, with the business-
like approach and procedures of the conference and the re-
port of the Coordinating Committee. I think it is excellent
and it is to the point, and its recommendations are logical.
I would like to speak to those recommendations for one mo-
ment.
1. There should be insistence upon and a public
airing of the degree of progress in terms of the schedule
of abatement. The public should be made aware of how the
matter is proceeding. They are very interested, and we could

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Hugh Mercer
help perhaps bring a little weight where needed.
2.	If subsidies of a definite nature are to be
granted, cash, additional grants to each farm for facilities
or anything of this nature, we would appreciate the oppor-
tunity to have a chance to comment on, or hear of and com-
ment on these subsidies.
3.	In connection with the problem of duck sludge
and its handling, I do not feel we should be precipitous in
dredging. This is a very large area. Not only is it costly
as has been well pointed out by our County Executive, but
there is an aspect to this bank of sludge that may be of
value in years to come. I won't debate the chemical analysis
of it, but there may be some usefulness in this sludge.
If it is not disturbed, if it is not the source
of idiotic attempts at land filling, nor at gaining funds
for other projects through the handling of it, I feel that
it would be best to consider it very carefully before we
begin to spend needed taxpayer funds in this area.
Lastly, and this is a. general comment. This
report is to the point, is businesslike, and has addressed
itself to the issue. I hope it will not be used in any other
fashion, but on the issue. It should not be the basis for
an argument for a county-wide sewer. It should not be the
basis for any^other point but the point to which it is

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Hugh Mercer
addressed. That is its purpose.
Gentlemen, I compliment you.
MR. STEIN: Thank you, Mr. Mercer.
Would you wait a minute, because I think we have
one factual point I would like to clear up to help our think-
ing.
That is, is the assumption correct that if we
allow the sludge banks to remain where they are, undisturbed,
and with the limitations you put on it, that we will not have
any deleterious effects on water quality because of the exis-
tence of the beds in their present location?
This I think is a key factor. I don't think
anyone is going to fool with those beds if they are not
bothering anyone else, but if they are contributing to the
deterioration of the water supply, and the oyster growers
are most interested in that, then we are going to have to
get at that.
Mr. DeFalco, do you have someone here, or can
you call on someone?
MR. DeFALCO: Well, we are aware of some effects.
There is disturbance of these sludge beds every time you
have a storm, and these materials are re-suspended into the
overlying waters and cause deleterious effects. There are
rather large concentrations of bacterid trapped in these,

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Hugh Mercer
which re-suspend and also create problems.
I agree with you that any dredging of the sludge
should be very carefully considered so that we don't create
additional problems, but I think there is some real need in
certain of the areas to remove these materials.
MR. MERCER: Could I pursue that point of yours
carefully, dredging? I believe that there is a standing
rule that where a permit for dredging has been granted, it
is possible, without further discussion, to return for
maintenance of a channel resulting from that permit. This
is under the Corps of Engineers.
I would appreciate being corrected on that
matter, because if this were correct, I would assume that
the Army Corps of Engineers should be advised that any re-
dredging for maintenance purposes in those areas would have
to be submitted for consideration, in view of your recom-
mendations .
Again, new dredging, we know, would fall within
the purview of your recommendations, but would maintenance
fall within the purview of those recommendations since it is
already, in a sense, authorized?
MR. STEIN: We have a representative of the Corps
here and we can let him speak for himself. I don't know if
he wants to.

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Hugh Mercer
However, in recent years we have been working
very closely with the Corps on dredging operations. The
Corps is very, very mindful of the water quality implica-
tions in all their dredging operations. These have been
taken into account.
I don't know if the Corps has any further state-
ment they want to make on this. We have become aware of
this in many, many areas of the country. Where we dredge
or clear out a channel or go to make one, we have to con-
sider water quality as one of the essential factors before
we go ahead with it.
As far as I know, and perhaps I am a partisan,
there are no better dredgers or more careful dredgers in
the world than the Corps of Engineers.
MR. MERCER: They do a thorough job, yes. They
do a thorough job.
MR. STEIN: Let me tell you this: I have worked
with the Corps for a long time. They work within a budget
and they work within specifications. If you give the Corps
specifications to do a job, to test water quality and put
the material somewhere, the Corps will follow that out.
Obviously, in a job costing $100,000, if these
people are given $50,000 and don't have the specifications,
you just can't get that done. I think we have to respect

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Hugh Mercer
their limitations and also respect their know-how.
The point is that no one is better qualified to
do a good careful dredging job than the Corps, in my opinion.
If we can get them the authority, the specifications and the
money, they will do it.
MR. MERCER: Very good, sir. Thank you.
MR. STEIN: All right.
MR. METZLER: I would like to ask one qiestion,
Mr. Mercer. Perhaps I still have a great deal to learn
about both the shellfish and the duck industry, but your
second point was that if subsidies were to be made to the
farms, then you would like an opportunity to comment in
advance.
I wonder if you would elaborate on that a little
bit and tell me what you had in mind?
MR. MERCER: Well, sir, this is again a personal
opinion, because, like yourself, I have a great deal to learn.
I mean both of us agree on that.
I am very doubtful -- this is a personal observa-
tion -- that there will be practicability in the facilities
that will be developed between now and the time limits.
I originally spoke here at the first session
indicating that our problem arises quite often in this matter
from location. These farms are on the water, and I do not

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Hugh Mercer
see any practicable, meaning economical, private cost bearing
aspects to removing, which is one of the basic of killers,
the phosphates. This is a very costly process. It is an
unknown process, really. There are ways to do it of a mini-
mal character.
Now, I also said at that time that I felt that
the absolute dissolution of the duck growing industry would
be a disservice. I am in a protein growing business. They
are in a protein growing business.
I felt, therefore, at sometime before this really
became the issue, at sometime before the duck farmers sud-
denly realized they do mean it -- you know, a terrible
awakening here one day, that they really do mean it -- at
that time there will be desperate thrashing about to either
delay or dilly-dally, which we will not do and not let you
do. Burn your house down, or something. There will be no
shilly-shallying.
But, on the other hand, there may be some pos-
sible moves, as I already said. I know at one meeting that
Mr. Dennison was at, and he has left, the suggestion was
made that we should pipe this material inland to make our
middle island more fertile.
Oh, yes, I know it takes a long while for it,
but it has usefulness. The whole industry has usefulness,

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Hugh Mercer
arid I thought at that particular time when this does become
a critical junction, there will be desperate thrashing.
Then I think perhaps subsidies, even subsidies
to buy the farms and move them, might be considered.
I am just trying to anticipate that evil day
when the moment of truth arrives and someone will say, "Well,
what are we going to do with these people? We've got to
give them some money of some kind."
MR. METZLER: I understand your point.
MR. STEIN: We hope that the moment of truth will
come much earlier, and that will be in 1968 when the duck
facilities are scheduled to be in operation.
In other words, you won't have to wait for the
millennium, I don't think, to find out about it.
Thank you.
MR. METZLER: I only have one more, Mr. Chairman,
who has indicated that he wishes to make a statement.
If there are any others who do want to be heard,
they should get a note to me.
Mr. Harrison, do you have any others? I have
one more.
MR. HARRISON: Just Mr. McNicol.
MR. METZLER: All right. Mr. Douglas McNicol
of the Fire Island Sea Clam Company.

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Douglas McNicol
122
STATEMENT OF MR. DOUGLAS McNICOL,
FIRE ISLAND SEA CLAM COMPANY,
WEST SAYVILLE, NEW YORK
MR. McNICOL: My name is Douglas McNicol. I
served as a representative of the shellfish industry on the
committee, but it is as a taxpayer that I would like to talk
right now. I think I contribute a little more as a taxpayer
than I probably contributed on the committee I served on.
The thing that worries me is the cost of the
sludge removal. I had experience with one situation in
Seatuck Cove, where it cost the county $413,500 to dredge a
small percentage of this, probably 20 or 30 percent. I don't
think we have any way of telling right now how much was re-
moved.
But if we continue with the same type of opera-
tion, dredging the sludge and putting it into the sea, a
rough estimate of $50 million probably wouldn't be too far
off.
I would like to point out also as a taxpayer that
this work is not being done by the county dredge, as was
intimated by Mr. Dennison. All of this work of pumping the
sludge into the sea is being done by dredgers who are hired,

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Douglas McNicol
who are outside contractors.
It seems to me that if we could find a way of
using the county dredges for this purposes, or perhaps the
two of them together, we could keep them occupied for five
years, and I think this would be a very good thing.
I have another point. Mr. Mercer mentioned the
real estate involved, the question of the removal of the
duck farms. I believe five of them have already gone out
of business. They are probably sitting there waiting for
someone to come along there and dredge the duck sludge, and
they will then have a nice piece of waterfront real estate.
If this trend continues on and more duck farms
fall by the way, I would like to make a recommendation that
whatever suitable waterfront land was available or was ob-
tained by the county or the State or some suitable agency,
and should be used for public recreation, for boat ramps,
for marinas, and things of this nature. Also, some of the
creeks probably could be rehabilitated and would be useful
wetlands.
I had some other points to make, but I think Mr.
Mercer covered the field so thoroughly that he didn't leave
much room for anyone else, so I will close, unless you have
any questions you would like to ask.
MR. STEIN: I don't know if there is anyone here

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Douglas McNicol
representing the County Executive.
I think your remark is correct, but as I recall
Mr. Dennison's statement, he said that if the county dredges
were used, it would take five years. He didn't say it was
being used.
MR. McNICOL: No, the county dredges have not
been used.
MR. STEIN: I don't think he said that.
MR. McNICOL: They tried to use the county
dredges and found they weren't suitable.
MR. STEIN: Are there any other questions or
comments?
(There was no response.)
MR. STEIN: If not, thank you very much, sir.
Are there any other statements we should hear?
Do you have any?
MR. DeFALCO: No.
MR. EVANS: I would like to make a statement on
those county dredges.
MR. METZLER: Would you give your name?
MR. STEIN: Would you come up, and let us have
your name, please?

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Barney A. Evans
125
STATEMENT OF MR. BARNEY A. EVANS,
PRINCIPAL CIVIL ENGINEER, SUFFOLK
COUNTY DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC WORKS,
YAPHANK, NEW YORK
MR. EVANS: My name is Barney Evans, and I am
with the Suffolk County Department of Public Works in the
Waterways Division.
The county has used their dredges on several
projects for the removal of duck sludge and pumping it out
into the ocean.
I just want to make the record straight on that.
MR. STEIN: Thank you, sir.
Are there any comments or questions?
MR. METZLER: Yes. I want to ask a question, if
I may. There have been some references to figures available
to let us know how much sludge there is. Do you have any
idea?
MR. EVANS: No, I haven't.
MR. METZLER: Do we know how much sludge exists?
MR. EVANS: No, I haven't any idea.
MR. METZLER: And you don't know of any studies
that have been made?
MR. EVANS: No, sir.

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Barney A. Evans
MR. METZLER: So actually the committee conclu-
sion is that we are going to have to find out about this if
we are going to remove the sludge?
MR. EVANS: That is correct. You would have
to make a study on your own and find out.
MR. METZLER: All right, thank you.
MR. STEIN: We have had an excellent report and
excellent contributions from the participants here. I think
we are rather close to coming up with conclusions and find-
ings of the conferees. However, because of the nature of
the problem, considering a luncheon recess and executive
session, it would probably be realistic to adjourn at this
time until 3:00 o'clock.
With that, we will stand recessed until 3:00
o'clock. During that time, the conferees hopefully will
have lunch and the executive session, and at 3:00 o'clock
we will have an announcement.
We stand recessed until 3:00 o'clock.
(Whereupon, at 12:30 a recess was taken.)

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127
AFTERNOON SESSION
3:25 P.M.
MR. STEIN: May we reconvene?
We have a letter addressed to Mr. Dwight F.
Metzler, P. E., from Arthur McComb, President of The Lake
Ronkonkoma Civic Association. Without objection, this
letter will be entered into the record.
(The letter above referred to reads as follows:)
THE LAKE RONKONKOMA CIVIC ASSOCIATION, INC.
P. 0. BOX 444 Ronkonkoma, New York 11779
June 21st, 1967
"Dwight F. Metzler, P. E.
Deputy Commissioner, N, Y. State Department of Health,
Panel Member, Pollution Conference,
Patchogue, New York.
"Dear Mr. Metzler:
"I restrained my desire to rise and comment, thinking further
opportunity would be given at three o'clock, so I write this
to you.
"I endorse Mayor Waldbauer in his efforts to achieve less
emphasis on the negative image of his Village of Patchogue
in this conference and its reports. It is unfair, mislead-
ing, and less than an objective influence on the necessary
comprehensive approach.

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Arthur McComb
128
"However, as president and otherwise in our association, I
have long and often opposed the efforts of those who would
build multiple dwellings indiscriminately for speculation
purposes, and without real need shown toward our real objec-
tives in planning for the safe, healthful maximum number of
residents possible in any one area.
"We stand here in Patchogue, but as well we are in Brook-
haven Town, Suffolk County, New York State, and in the
United States, and we must gauge our planning for the whole,
not just for Patchogue. This is needed perspective.
"I admire his concern for his duty to Village residents.
But on the other hand, sewage plant effluent, however well
cleaned, provides nitrates and phosphates, discharged into
the Bay to feed the algae which ruins fish and water. We
all pay for the problems that this causes, not just Patchogue.
"Therefore, if Patchogue would only move as slowly toward
2, 3, 4 and 5 story apartment buildings as they are toward
the secondary stage sewage plant, the seeds of cities would
find it hard to get planted, and we all know what is now
happening to cities. They all had to start somewhere, and
our taxes will have to bail them out.
"Concern for health, safety, morals and general welfare,
the obligation of town and village boards in Town Law Sec-
tion 261 and Village Law Section 175, should override all

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Arthur McComb
129
other considerations. Population density limits is the only
answer, and that means from the ground up.
"Sincerely yours,
"Arthur McComb,
President."
MR. STEIN: It is always a pleasure to deal with
the New York representatives. I know that for them and us
it might be an abrasive experience, but we have arrived at
unanimous conclusions and recommendations. So far, our
record remains unbroken in that regard.
The conferees unanimously agree to the following
conclusions and recommendations:
1,	The waters of Moriches Bay and the eastern
section of Great South Bay are polluted.
2.	This pollution substantially interferes with
the shellfish industry in the shipment and marketing of
shellfish in interstate commerce.
3 To date, the remedial measures taken to abate
the pollution have not been adequate. The delays in abating
the pollution are due to the very complicated nature of the
problem and the tremendous growth of the community in terms
of population.
4. The conferees believe that the pollution
problems are amenable to solution, and that multiple uses

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130
Closing Statements
of the waters are possible.
5.	There are four major points involved in the
total pollution control problem in the conference area.
These are: (1) duck farm wastes, (2) domestic wastes,
(3) sludge deposits in the bay waters, and (4) the bay
inlets
6.	The conferees note that major progress has
been made towards the abatement of pollution in the confer-
ence area.
7.	All the duck farms in the conference area:
(a) On or before August 1, 1967 shall sub-
mit to the New York State Department of
Health final construction plans in ap-
provable form, prepared by or under the
direction of a duly licensed profession-
al engineer, for adequate waste treatment
facilities to remove at least 85 percent
of the suspended solids and at least 85
percent of the biochemical oxygen demand,
and a substantial portion of the phos-
phates thereof and therein shall be
removed, and facilities for disinfecting
such wastes and/or waste effluents to
the extent that the final effluent shall

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131
Closing Statements
at all times contain the chlorine re-
sidual of not less than 1 part per
million after not less than 15 minutes
contact time and a coliform count not
greater than 100 per 100 ml. in at least
90 percent of the samples in a series
thereof, provided that at no time the
coliform count of such organisms in
said final effluents exceed 10,000 per
100 ml.
(b)	On or before November 1, 1967, initiate
construction of such facilities.
(c)	On or before April 30, 1968, complete
construction of such facilities.
(d)	Thereafter maintain and operate such
facilities in such manner that they at
all times meet the performance criteria
set forth above, and that the persons
responsible for the maintenance and
operation of such facilities set up an
adequate trained and equipped staff in
order to thereafter maintain and operate
treatment facilities installed at duck
farms at all times in conformance with

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Closing Statements
132
requirements established by the New
York State Department of Health.
8.	The maximum amount of domestic wastes in the
conference area shall be collected in sewers and given
secondary treatment plus chlorination of the effluent. The
New York State Department of Health shall encourage and
cooperate with local authorities to this end and shall report
to the conferees as to progress in six months.
9.	Cognizance is taken of the activities of the
Village of Patchogue to provide adequate waste treatment
facilities. It is recognized that they have provided primary
treatment facilities and are sympathetic with the objective
of providing secondary treatment facilities with chlorination.
The Village of Patchogue shall be required to construct and
have in operation a secondary treatment plant with effective
chlorination by December 31, 1969.
10.	The waters affected by duck sludge be sur-
veyed to delineate accurately the extent, composition and
possible deleterious effects of duck waste sludge. This
survey shall be started immediately under the direction of
Mr. Robert D. Hennigan of New York State, and Mr. Paul
DeFalco of the Department of the Interior. A report shall
be made to the conferees within six months.
11.	Pending completion of this survey, dredging

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133
Closing Statements
of material containing sludge in the enforcement area from
Patchogue River to the eastern end of Moriches Bay shall be
pumped to the ocean for release. No spoiling of duck wastes
from the area shall be placed on wetlands or in the waters
of the adjacent bays. Ocean disposal shall be carried out
as follows:
(a)	Dredging and ocean disposal undertaken
only from October 15 through May 15.
(b)	Spoil to be disposed of directly into
the ocean below the low water level.
(c)	The spoil release point to be approxi-
mately 1.5 miles away from Moriches
Inlet, and further where practical,
unless a lesser distance is indicated
at the time of the application for the
dredge permit.
12.	The completion of the Moriches Inlet stabi-
lization project shall be advanced. Such action will coincide
and be in phase with the schedule for construction of other
pollution abatement facilities in the enforcement area.
13.	The conferees agree that regional or area-
wide drainage collection systems and treatment are necessary
for the protection of the waters of Moriches and Great South
Bay for all beneficial uses.

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134
Closing Statements
14.	Great value would accrue to the long range
pollution control program in the enforcement area if the
Corps of Engineers would construct a model of the Great
South Bay and adjoining bays. Data obtained from operation
of the model, together with prototype data from the bays,
would provide much basic information necessary to devise a
comprehensive solution of the interrelated water management
problems of the bays.
15.	The conferees will hold periodic public
progress meetings every six months.
Are there any changes, comments or suggestions?
(There was no response.)
MR. STEIN: If not, I think this has been a very
productive conference.
A VOICE: Mr. Stein, may I speak?
MR. STEIN: I'm sorry, sir. The public parti-
cipation in this conference was closed. We gave full oppor-
tunity for the public to participate. The list was held open
all morning.
We now stand adjourned.
(Whereupon, at 3:35 p.m., the conference was
adj ourned.)	a gpogpo 96?-m

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