TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
SNVIHQNMENT AL PROTECTION AGENCY
HEARINGS and PROPOSED GENERIC STANDARDS
OCCUPATIONAL SAFETY REQUIREMENTS for PESTICIDES
Albany* New York
October 16, 1973
Pages 1 thru 171
HOOVER REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
Official Reporters
Washington, D. C.
546-6666
-------
EMVIflONMETTPA L PROTECTION AGENCY
HEADINGS and PROPOSED GENERIC STANDARDS
OCCUPATIONAL SAFETY REQUIREMENTS for PESTICIDES
Albany, New York
October 16, 197?
Pages 1 thru 171
-------
APPEARANCES :
Panel of the Environmental Protection Agency
CHAIRMAN HAROLD ALFORD
GEORGE BEtJSCH
DR. WILLIAM UPHOLT
WILLIAM BURNAM
STANLEY A. FENICHEL
Presents
Arthur B. Burrell
Philip Greene
Thomas Hurley
Leland P. Beebe
Rockwood N. Berry
Walter Baran
James Dewey
Anthony J. Moriello
Allan Jackson
Melvin B, Hurd
Edward R. Crist.
Oliver Cosman
John Do Hotaling
Peter Concklin
Jack A. Gill
Ruth K. Skou
John L. Brookins
Louis Cimasi
Heinz Amarell
-------
t
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
JO
31
12
13
U
ss
36
17
38
39
20
?A
22
23
24
25
3
CONTENTS
STATEMENT OPs
PAGE
EXHIBIT
PAGE
Chairman Alford
U
158
18
Dwight P„ Metzler
8
159
36
Dr0 Upholt
11
160
68
Anthony J. Moriello
18
161
69
James E„ Dewey
36
162
101
Leland Beebe
58
163
118
Ifr. Louis Cimasi
62
164
130
Dr„ Arthur Burrell
69, 111
165
137
Alan Jackson
81
166
150
John D0 Hotaling
89
167
151
rVr, Ed Crist
102
168
157
Melvin Hurd
107
169
163
Oliver Coaman
109
•&* ¦&-
Jack A, Gill
118
Pete Concklin
12*1
Ruth K„ Skou
132
John L. Brookins
137
Thomas De Hurley
151
Walter Baran
157
Dr0 Heinz Amarell
163
•a- «¦ ¦» * o c- it -:<•
*
!
-------
I
2
3
4
5
8
7
S
9
19
n
\z
13
n
is
17
IS
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
i
i
b
CHAIRMAN HAROLD &LFORD; Will the
hearing come to order, please? I am Harold Alford
of the U. S. Department of Environmental Protection
Agency. I would like to introduce the panel of the |
Environmental Protection Agency who is accompany j
ing this hearing.
To my immediate left at the table
is George Beusch, a chemist with the Tritarian
Evaluation Division of EPA; Dr. William Upholfc from
the Office of Hazardous Materials Control of EPA;
Bill Burnam, a toxicologist with the Tritarian
Evaluation Division of EPA; Stanley A. Fenichel
of Region 2 Ne^ York State EPA. Mr. Fenichel is
with the Regional EPA, an office in New York Region
2. V7e are happy to have with us Mr. Fenichel.
This hearing is being held subject
to the provisions of the Federal Insecticide? Fun-
gicide and Rodenticide Act. It is a part of the
rule-making procedure under Title 40 of the Codes
of Federal Regulations, Chapter 1„ Subchapter E,
Part 162.
A notice was published in the Federal
Register on July 31, 1973, Volume 38, No. 146, and
a further notice in the Federal Register published
-------
1
2
3
4
5
8
7
8
8
10
n
92
*3
14
15
is
17
tQ
18
20
SI
22
23
24
25
5
on August 31, 1973, Volume 38, No. 149, announcing
a series of hearings and proposing certain stand-
ards requiring occupational safety requirements for
pesticides.
These two Federal Register notices
were entered into the record at the initial session
of these hearings in Sacramento, California and were
identified as Exhibits 1 and 2 respectively.
The issues to be considered before
this hearing include the proposed standards and re-
lated issues which were delineated in the July 31st
notice. The issues deal with standards for regis-
tration, field reentry, protective clothing and
related agricultural worker areas for all pesticides.
The proceedings of this hearing will
be recorded. Copies of the transcript will be
available from the recording company. Anyone wish-
ing to purchase a copy of all or part of the record
should make such arrangements with the recording
company.
If at anytime a witness or any other
person speaking wishes to go off the record, please
direct your request to me as Chairman rather than
to the official recorder. A list of witnesses has
been presented from the requests submitted in
-------
f
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
!Q
38
32
13
!4
3S
16
37
?8
39
20
21
22
23
24
25
6
response to the July 31st notice. Additional wit-
nesses will be permitted to testify to the extent
time permits and they will complete one of the
registration cards available at the table at the
entrance and return it to one of the young ladies
at the table.
The tentative order for the appear-
ance of witnesses is as follows; first,
representatives of Federal or State agencies.
Second; representatives of organizations, and third,
individuals.
If there is a justifiable reason for
amending this order of witnesses, it will be con-
sidered. We have not allotted a definite time limit
for each witness? however, due to the large number
of witnesses who have requested to testify, it may
be necessary to limit the time that a witness is
permitted to speak. You are asked to keep your com-
ments relative to the issues before the hearing and
to avoid any unnecessary repetition.
It may, of course, be necessary to
disallow certain testimony or certain evidence of-
fered if it is determined that it is not relevant
to the issues before the hearing. A number of or-
ganizations have requested to testify and have asked
-------
f
2
S
4
S
6
7
3
9
?0
n
*3
u
15
56
17
18
!!)
20
2§
22
23
24
25
3
7
permission for a number of their members to testify. j
You are requested to consider naming j
a few spokesmen for your organization to testify for
the entire group in order to avoid repetition. We I
will, however, permit everyone to speak who feels he
has something to contribute to the hearings. Follow-
ing the testimony of each witness, the scientific
panel from EPA will be permitted to cross-question
the witness on matters relevant to his testimony or
related information.
In addition, limited cross-questioning
from the audience will be permitted from persons who
have properly identified themselves for that purpose.
Cross-questioning, of course, must be relevant and
must be limited to the witnesses" testimony or related
information. Cross-questioning to the extent that it
is argument or debating the issues will not be per-
mitted.
In addition to oral testimony, written
statements or documents may be filed for the record.
That may be done here with this session. It would be
a part of the transcript for this particular session
of the hearing or written statements may be submitted
to the hearing clerk of the Environmental Protection
Agency at any time up until November 15th.
i
-------
!
2
3
4
e
6
7
8
9
»'o
53
12
IS
15
V8
17
»S
IS
50
21
22
23
£4
25
Are there any questions regarding the 1
i
i
procedures that we will follow in this hearing? j
(No response.,) j
If not, we are vary fortunate this
morning to have with us the Deputy Commissioner of
the New York Department of Environmental Conser- j
vation, Mr. Dwight F. Metzler.
Mr. Metzler, would you have a few
words for us, please?
MRo METZLER: Mr. Alford, membersf
guests, friends, I am Dwight Metzler, Deputy Com-
missioner for Environmental Quality for the New York
Department of Environmental Conservation. One of my
responsibilities is the supervision of the pesticide
control responsibilities of the State of New York,
specifically the Department of Environmental Con-
servation.
I would like to vpelcorae you here today
on behalf of Commissioner Henry Diamond who may not
I
at this moment be at a Cabinet meeting with the j
j
Governor, but will be very shortly, was not able to j
!
welcome you personally. j
<
This is an example of the kind of
teamwork that you see between Federal and State En-
vironmental Agencies. There often may be times }
-------
¦ t
2
3
4
8
6
7
6
9
10
3?
IS
is
14
ig
?S
17
m
38
20
23
§2
SS
24
as
9
when we disagree a great deal on the issues, but that
does not mean that we do not cooperate fully to see
that they get public hearing and that all sides of
the issue are explored. We are heartened by the fact
that these haarings are being held across the nation.
We in New York have an effective pesticide regulation
program.
Our program provides us with informa-
tion about every product and about whatever product
that is sold and/or used in the State. Our program
which has been in effect for three years now has re-
moved G8 highly toxic and/or persistent pesticides
from the general market and placed them in the hands
of only those that are qualified to use them.
Through a comprehensive permit system,
the sale, purchase and use of these, as you in New
York know, are carefully regulated. Our custom appli-
cator regulation program requires the registration of
all commercial pesticide applicators and after next
January 1st will require the registration of all pri-
vate applicators or farmers handling and applying
restricted pesticides.
We are also preparing a program of
applicator training and examination in cooperation
with the the Cooperative Extension Service which will
-------
I
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
32
13
34
85
36
|7
!3
S9
20
21
22
23
24
HS
ensure compliance with the new Federal law and which
will be of help in maintaining safety standards and
will enhance our existing program. From past ex-
perience, we are very confident that the pesticide
programs here in Hew York adequately meet the needs
of the people of the State.
The Department will present some tes-
timony later. I would, however, like to take this
opportunity to offer the assistance of this Depart-
ment to you, Mr. Hearing Officer, and to your staff
while you are here and further, after you have re-
turned, to g.U'e you any assistance possible in
developing regulations resulting from these hearings.
I hope the testimony that is pre-
sented today and tomorrow will be useful to you and
more importantly that it will be used or reflected
in the final regulations.
X might add with some wry humor that
this Department has spent a great deal offering ad-
vice to EPA and the degree with which that advise
is accepted varies from time to time. I will assure
you that you will find us giving you some good ad-
vice here? perhaps you will be able to accept some
of it.
Thank you very much and the best
-------
%
2
3
4
S
6
7
8
9
30
11
12
US
14
15
IS
17
*3
to
21
22
2S
£4
25
11
wishes for a good two days of hearing here.
MR* ALFORDs Thank you, Mr„ Mefczley.
We certainly appreciate your hospitality and we can
assure you that certainly the advice furnished to us
by this hearing will be given every consideration.
9
I would like at this time to call on
Dr. William Upholt to read a statement on behalf of
the Environmental Protection Agency,
Dr. Upholt*s statement was entered
into the record at the initial hearing and was iden- j
i
tified as Exhibit Ko. 3. j
DR. UPHOLTi Mr. Chairmane Mr. Mets- j
ler, 1 v/ould like to tell you that we do appreciate
all the advice your State has offered EPA. It is
quite possible we may not act on all of it. This
Might be quite an imposition, but we do appreciate
it and it is all seriously considered, I will assure
you of that.
The responsibility for control of
pesticides is by law placed on the administrator of
EPA. We and our predecessor agencyF the V. S. De-
partment of Agriculture, have exercised control over
pesticides in Interstate commerce since 1910. The
Insecticide Act of 1910 was relatively limited in
scope with areas of concern being effectiveness,
-------
I
2
3
4
5
6
7
3
8
30
it
!2
13
14
55
16
37
38
!S
20
2!
22
23
24
25
12
adulteration and misbranding.
With the passage of the Federal In-
secticide, Fungicide and Rodenticide Act of 1947,
the scope of products and areas of concern were
greatly increased. Pesticide product is subject to
regulation under the Fungicide, Insecticide and
Rodenticide Act as amended, which I will refer to
as FIFRA, are required to be labeled and registered
with the Environmental Protection Agency.
Prior to the issuance of registration,
proposed products are reviewed and evaluated with
respect to' usefulness and the risks that they pose
to man and the environment. After an evaluation cf
these risks, determinations are made as to directions
for use, warning statements and restrictions, in-
cluding reentry intervals, which may be necessary
to prevent man and the environment.
This evaluation of risks includes
consideration of potential hazards to pesticide ap-
plicators and others who might come in contact with
the product during transportation, storage, use or
after the product has been applied. It has long
been recognised that many pesticide products present
a potential hazard and, if used carelessly without
adherence to labeled warnings, cautions and
-------
I
2
3
4
§
6
«¦*
i
3
9
10
11
12
S3
U
IS
13
17
18
59
£0
21
22
23
24
25
13
restrictions, such hazards can become real. Concern
for the protection of all persons,, including farm
workers who might be exposed to pesticides during and
after application, has been an integral part of the
FIFRA registration process for many years. This
mandate was reiterated in the legislative history of
the 1372 amendments to the FIFRA which states that
Sections 2 and 3 are designed to protect all men and,
in the words of the Senate Commerce Committee, the
Committee believes there can be no question about
the matter that takes this occasion to emphasize that
the bill FEPCA requires the administrator to require
that the labeling and classification of pesticides
be such as to protect farmers, farm workers and
others coming into contact with pesticides or pesti-
cide residues.
We have been fully aware of the high
degree of toxicity of certain pesticides and their
characteristics to be readily absorbed into the body
through skin contact. Possible injury from exposure
to crops treated with these chemicals has been ana-
lyzed by our agency as well as State regulatory
agencies.
On October 21, 1972, the President
signed into law a sweeping amendment to the Federal
-------
i
2
3
4
S
6
7
a
s
20
?!
12
S3
M
35
38
17
33
'J 9
20
8*
22
23
SW
25
14
Insecticide# Fungicide and Rodenticide Act. This
amended law applies to. all pesticide products dis-
tributed or used in the United States and any of the
territories and includes those in both interstate and
intrastate commerce. In addition, it gives EPA legal
authority to enforce labeling standards.
Our activities are with respect to
worker protection standards have increased with the
expansion of EPA's legislative mandate. Guidance is
one thing and enforceable standards another. EPA,
under its new authority, will be better defining its
standards and intends to enforce them.
The occupational safety and health
administration of the Department of Labor has con-
ducted hearings on worker reentry and protective
clothing for the 23. organophosphorus chemicals for
use on applest citrus, grapes, peaches and tobacco
vrhich were recently concluded.
Our purpose for cooperating with
QSHA in their hearings and sponsoring hearings of our
own is to develop information on which to base stand-
ards as deemed necessary by the administrator for
these and other pesticides prior to 1974 growing
season.
Based upon the hearing records of both
-------
8
2
3
4
8
6
7
8
9
10
* 3
£2
S3
M
US
18
17
10
IS
20
2t
22
2S
24
25
15
this agency and OSHA and irt consultation with OSKA, |
i
USDA and other interested parties* EPA will proitvul- j
gate such standards.
OSHA, in consultation with EPA, may 1
issue standards'on such crops and organophosphorus
chemicals as deemed necessary axid appropriate under
their act. If OSHA standards are issued which are
directed at protecting workers from the same hazards
covered by EPA standards, the two standards will be
consistent.
In the past, each pesticide product
currently registered with EPA has been specifically
i
evaluated as to the adequacy of labeling directions
and restrictionse and labeling has been specifically
tailored to the product for its intended use.
In order to satisfy the requirements
of the current lav; and to provide easily available |
information to users and other responsible parties,
EPA must set more generic and less product specific
standards. In place of the present product by pro-
duct standards, we propose to simplify so that
standards are generally applied based upon currently
used and generally known categories of toxicity keyed
to signal words on the current labels.
The proposed standards which appeared
-------
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
32
33
U
35
96
57
SB
19
20
Z\
22
£3
24
25
16 '
in EPA Federal Register notice of July 31st have been j
based on. the combined judgement of experienced Federal
and State officials who have been closely associated
with regulation and research in the field of pesti- j
1
cides for many years. This Involved a thorough j
I
consideration of the chemistry and toxicology of these j
I
chemicals along with available test results and an j
evaluation of reported poisons. |
These proposals are not at this time j
i
fully supported by definitive test results. However,
these hearings and research programs which are being
developed jointly between EPA and several states
should provide the data necessary to validate the
proposed standards or to indicate necessary adjust-
ments .
We have asked comments be addressed
not only to the proposed standards in the Federal
Register notice, but also to the six issues included
which have a direct bearing on this matter. Infor-
mation as to length of time workers should be
restricted from entering treated fields and specifi-
cations concerning protective equipment, most j
i
appropriate methods of analysis to establish stand-
}
ards which appropriately take into account !
geographic, climatic and cultural differences,
-------
I
2
S
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
si
n
13
U
«5
16
\7
18
i9
20
si
2 2
23
24
25
17 !
specific testing and data requirements relative to \
I
reentry precautions which should be incorporated as !
a condition of registration, possible methods of j
protecting exposed persons other than temporal re- !
strictions against entering into fields. j
Commonly recognized agricultural prac- j
tices which should be considered in establishment of
standards, including those which necessitate enter-
ing fields after treatmentf with special emphasis on
their timing and consequences of delay, and finally
specific testing and data requirements relative to j
i
i
application and mixing which should be incorporated
as a condition of registration.
We cannot overemphasize the necessity
of assembling meaningful data on which specific de-
terminations in this area can be based. We view
worker protection as a vital part of the total regis-
tration process to which EPA is by law and in spirit
committed. It is towards the Agency's goal of pro-
tecting man and the environment while preserving the j
benefits of pest control for society as a whole that
our concern for and efforts in behalf of agricultural
workers are directed.
As was indicated, we are cooperating
with the Occupational Safety and Health Administration
-------
I
2
3
4
5
8
7
8
9
30
I?
32
13
U
15
35
17
18
19
20
2!
22
£3
£4
25
10 1
in the conduct of these hearings as in their own hear- ]
s
ings and they are represented here this morning by j
Mr. Richard Brock, who is assistant to the director ]
of the Office of Standards in OSHA. 1
i
Mr. Brock, will you stand up and iden-
tify yourself?
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
MRa ALFORD: Thank you, Dr. Upholt.
Our first veitness is* Theodore D. Day,
New York Department of Agriculture and Markets. Is
I
Mr. Day present?
MR. ANTHONY J. MORIELLO: Mr. Day is
not present; however, I will present the testimony
for Ag arid Markets. ]
MR. ALFORD: Would you come to the podium
and identify yourself, please?
MR. MORIELLO; My name is Anthony J.
Moriello, Executive Assistant to the Commissioner of
the Department of. Agriculture and Markets for the
State of Mew York.
MR. ALFORD: You do have a written
statement to file for the record, I believe?
MR. MORIELLO; Yes, I do.
MR. ALFORD; This will be identified
as Exhibit No. 158.
-------
1
2
S
4
£
6
1
3
9
10
j?
n
is
14
IS
30
37
18
19
a©
£1
22
S3
24
25
19
You may proceed.
MR. IvK)RIELLO i My name is Anthony J.
Moriello, Executive Assistant to Frank Walkley,
Commissioner of the New York State Department of
Agriculture and Markets# and the testimony contained
herein is respectfully submitted on behalf of the
Department of Agriculture and Markets.
We do not feel that the National
Reentry Standards should be established for agricul-
tural crops. The purpose for establishing any
standards should be that a need for such a standard
exists to either protect the worker from a potential
hazard or to estalb'Vish safe criteria to prevent a
known hazard. We do not believe that this purpose is
met by attempting to establish a National Reentry
Standard.
This Federal regulation is based upon
problems that haVe been identified and known to exist
in only one or two of our 50 states, those being
California and Arizona. It would be inappropriate
to assume that because one state has a problem that
all states have the same problem. We do not chal-
lenge the fact that California and Arizona have had
a problem with field reentry? however, we point out
that the State of California has acted swiftly to
-------
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
II
32
13
14
15
16
17
58
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
:
20
solve its problem and has established the largest
single user of pesticides in the United States ac-
counting for approximately 20 percent of the total
volume. The unique crops and weather patterns of
these two states, particularly in the Southern Cal-
ifornia region where the problem has been identified,
are not common to many of the other states. We must
remember that the California-Aria ona farms are very
large blocks of land dedicated to a single variety
of crop with a very hot, dry weather pattern.
i
In Hew York State, by contrast, we 5
have many small blocks dedicated to many different
varieties and these blocks receive different spray
schedules. New York State terrain is generally dif-
ferent and our weather patterns are mostly cool and
wet. The materials under New York State conditions
break down much faster and this has been statistically
shown for a number of years.
Moreover, in establishing reentry
levels for specific pesticides, we cannot forget that
rates of application vary throughout the growing sea-
son for each of the specific pesticides and this
changes the potential toxicity of such pesticides.
There is also a difference in the percentage of
active ingredients used in the various formulations
-------
I
8
3
4
S
6
7
8
9
\Q
13
12
13
14
15
20
17
38
18
20
21
22
23
24
25
21
of pesticides.
Considering all of these variabilities
a hard and fast National Reentry Standard would not
be practicalf as there would be a wide range of po-
tential exposure not only between states, but
differences between regions in the same state.
It is, therefore, unrealistic to im-
pose a National Reentry Standard on all states that
is based upon the uniqueness of one state. More
specifically, in New York State, the evidence that
we have available to us indicates there is no need
for a reentry standard of any kind.
The following studies have been con-
ducted in New York State and are cited to support
that statements
a) Two research projects were con-
ducted in 1953 and 1954 with agricultural workers
having high exposure to parathion. 65 workers were
monitored for a period of five months. The results
showed only seven percent of the samples indicated
a lowering of the cholinesterase levels and these
levels did not indicate a hazard. At these levels
they were not large enough to be considered in any
way detrimental to health? however, public health
authorities were alerted to be cognizant of any
-------
I
2
3
4
S
6
1
3
3
M
si
12
S3
14
35
n
57
18
W
to
21
22.
23
M
25
22
existing morbidity that may occur in the future. Be-
cause of the low levels of hazard, the studies were
discontinued- The two reports are contained in a
publication entitled "Cholinesterase Activity Levels
Among Agricultural Workers" by J. H. Fryer and H. H.
Williams, and a copy is attached to this report.
b) In 1969 a study of farm accidents
was conducted on five percent of the farms in New York
State. Chemicals were shown to account for 2.4 per-
cent of the total farm accidents? pesticides accounted
for only 1.2 percent of all accidents caused by chem-
icals. These results clearly agree with the 1.0 percent
of reported accidents for all chemicals by the New York
State Agricultural Compensation Board. This report is
entitled "Accidents in Agriculture: A Survey of Their
Causes and Preventions" by Paul R. Hoff, and also
"Work Injuries in New York State Agriculture" by U.
S« Department of Labor and copies are also attached
to this report.
c) In 1970, employees at the Agri-
cultural Experiment Station at Geneva f New York were
monitored before exposure to anti-cholinesterase com-
pounds. They were again monitored eight weeks after
they had been highly exposed, to such compounds and
the results showed little or no change in their blood
-------
1
%
s
<3
S
9
7
6
8
10
11
12
IS
14
15
W
17
15
IS
29
at
22
23
24
25
23
level. As a result of this program, the Monitoring
was discontinued as the results did not indicate a
hazard to the workers. This report is contained in
a letter froiti Dr. E* H. Glass, head of the Depart-
ment of Entomology, New York State Experiment Station,
Geneva, New York, and a copy of that is also attached.
d) In 1971, a monitoring program of
the cholinesterase levels of fruit growers and their
employees was conducted in the Lake Champlain region
with 77 participants. One blood sample of 122 sam-
ples taken from the participants indicated significant
depression and this sample was not clearly identified
as phosphate poisoning, but it was designated as being
symptomatic of such poisoning. This report is con-
tained in a document entitled "Blood Cholinesterase
Levels in Vermont and New York Orchardists" by N. A.
Lachant. Copy is also attached to this report.
e) In 1972, a study was conducted in
Orange County among celery and lettuce workers to
evaluate the possible health hazard due to exposure
to anti-cholinesterase insecticides with a control
group who had no exposure to insecticides. The study
results indicated that there were no significant dif-
ferences in cholinesterase levels between the field
worker and the control group. The final report
-------
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
30
u
12
!3
14
1S
IS
17
90
13
20
21
22
23
2.1
25
24
stated because of the "low risk and unlikely possibility
of acute heavy dose exposure...there is no significant
health hazard from exposure to antl-cholinesterase
compounds." This is contained in a report entitled
"Health Hazard Report 1972-74" by Steven K. Shams,
M.D. A copy is also attached.
In New York State, there is no knowledge
of any problem, resulting from exposure to anti-
cholinesterase compounds and there is no evidence or
data that would indicate otherwise. Moreover, we call
out your attention to the fact that the Federal Ad-
visory Subcommittee on Pesticides to OSHA, after meet-
ing and researching this particular problem for nine
months, could not find a single authenticated record
of a fatality resulting from a person reentering or
working in a field that had been treated with a pes-
ticide.
It is the position of this Department
that there has been no information or documentation
presented to this date that would demonstrate a worker
safety hazard exists to support the need for a Federal
Reentry Schedule* As a point in fact, in Mew York
State, many of the growers and their workers have
their housing completely surrounded by their orchards,
vineyards and fields, upon which pesticides have been
-------
5
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
to
5 5
12
13
14
IS
93
17
18
19
£0
2?
22
23
24
2B
applied for many years and we have not recorded one
single instance of injury, although as we have
previously stated, many tests have been conducted
to determine if injury exists.
A National Reentry Standard that would
restrict the farmer and his employees from returning
home after work would not only be impractical, but
would be impossible to meet without an exemption in
the definition of reentry* Even if an exemption
were granted for the living quarters, that would not
change the fact that they had indeed "reentered" the
sprayed field and are, therefore, "exposed".
Moreover, because of the location
along the highway of many of New York State's farms,
an exemption would have to be granted to the public
utilizing roads that are bordered on each side by
croplands. Such an exemption would again not change
the fact that they had been exposed. The consequences
of not granting such an exemption are too bitter to
contemplate; either the farms would have to go out
of business and leave people without food, or the
roads would have to be shut down.
We must base our decision on the fact
that New York State has never had a problem with re-
entry and there has never been a single documented
-------
I
2
3
4
5
e
7
3
9
10
IS
12
S3
14
15
18
17
S3
39
20
21
22
28
24
25
26
case of injury-
It is our recommendation that no
<
National Standard be adopted for reentry and that any
such standard be the responsibility of the individual 1
states to determine and institute on a state by 3tate
basis as the need arises. All such reentry standards
should be based on scientific evidence containing re-
cordable, substantiated data and present a clearly
defined documented need.
If the need for worker protection is
found to be necessary in New York State# we should
establish our own reentry levels for our own particu-
lar set of circumstances. It is quite possible that
only a very few of the more toxic materials would be
found to present a potential problem under New York
State growing conditions.
Pesticides that do not fall in highly
toxic groups should not have any reentry levels until
y
the hazard can be clearly established. It is with
these points in mind that we comment on the specifics
of the proposed reentry schedules, keeping in mind
that we do not believe that there should be any
National Reentry Standard.
To save some time for you, the Depart-
ment has prepared a comparison chart between OSH&
-------
27
recommendations, EPA recommendations and in the third
column, Department of Ag and Markets recommendations.
I will, to save time, just read the Department of
Agriculture and Markets recommendations in each cate-
gory.
Under pesticides involved, while OSHA
recommends 21 and EPA all pesticides registered, the
Department of Agriculture and Markets only recommends
highly toxic pesticides with dermal under 200
milligrams per kilograms.
Under crops involved, OSHA specifies
7; EPA talks about' each pesticide and all crops?
Agriculture and *isrket3 recommends only those crops
where evidence documents need.
Under the subject matter of warning
signs, OSHA has set forth specific requirements rel-
ative to posting? so also has EPA; Ag and Markets
simply says, "Posted where workers live and/or con-
gregate, or oral warnings".
Under information to be contained,
there is a list of seven things that OSHA sets
forth, some four or five things that EFA sets forth.
Ag ana Markets narrows it down to four to include
pesticide used,date of application, field location,
date of safe reentry.
-------
8
2
3
4
6
6
7
e
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
se
37
18
19
£0
21
22
23
24
25
28
Under records to be kept, OSHA hag
specific requirements? EPA does not. Ag and Markets
recommends keeping of uncomplicated records for one
year containing simply the material used, the date
and the place applied.
Under language, there are specific re-
quirements under OSHA and EPA as to English and other
language requirements for signs; Ag and Markets does
not recommend any signs.
Under laundering of clothing and main-
tenance of equipment, we do not set forth any specific
requirements.
Under sanitation, we do not set forth
any specific requirements<>
Under medical services and first aid,
we do not set forth any specific requirements.
Under reentry intervals for specific
pesticides — and 2 will read these and say at the
outset that Ag and Markets does not recommend any
differences between the three crops of apples, grapes
or peaches. What we say for one, we say for all.
First material is Guthion. OSHA has
three days; EPA five; Ag and Markets recommends one.
Trithion, OSHA, three; EPA, five;
Ag and Markets5 one.
-------
s
2
3
4
9
6
7
6
9
to
If
12
IS
34
IS
16
17
S3
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
29
Systox; OSHA, three; EPA/ five; Ag
and Markets, one.
EPH: OSHA, three? EPA, five? Ag and
Markets, none.
Methyl Parathion: OSHA, three; EPA,
five; Ag and Markets, one.
Phosdrins OSHA, three; EPA, five; Ag
and Markets, one.
Meta~Systox~Rs OSHA, three; EPA, five;
Ag and Markets, none.
Parathions OSHA, three; EPA, five;
Ag and Markets, three.
Phosphamidons OSHA, three; EPA, five?
Ag and Markets, two.
Ethion: OSHA, three; EPA, five; Ag
and Markets, none.
Zolone or Phosalone? OSHA,, one; EPA,
five; Ag and Markets, none.
TEPP: OSHA, one; EPA, three, Ag and
Markets, none.
Diaainon: OSHA, one? EPA, two; Ag and
Markets, none.
The sane holds true for the next item,
Imidan, Malathion, Dibrora. We recommend none on those.
Under clothing to be worn within the
-------
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
SO
!i
\Z
iS
U
35
?8
V/
IS
\9
20
2i
22
23
2A
25
30
first 24 hours, under highly toxio pesticides, the
same kind of comparison charts here was also prepared.
Ag and Markets recommends coveralls of
a washable fabric and under moderately toxic pesti-
cides , the same. We recommend a hat be worn and the
same under moderately toxic.
Under Highly toxic, gloves? gloves
also under moderately toxic* Under highly toxic,
impermeable shoe coverings. The same for moderately
toxic. Under highly toxic, no respirator required
except when ingestion is considered a hazard and same
is true for moderately toxic.
Under goggles, we do not specify or
recommend any goggles.
After the expiration of the first 24
hours with substantial foliage contact, same sort of
chart, comparison of GSHA, EPA and Agriculture and
Markets column. Under highly toxic, recommend cover-
alls? moderately toxic, normal clothing.
Highly toxic, no hat necessary? the
same is true for moderately.
No gloves necessary and the same is
true for moderately. We do recommend wearing shoes
for both; no respirators for either.
After the expiration of the 24 hours,
-------
1
2
S
4
S
6
7
8
9
10
fl
!2
IS
U
3J>
rt.®
!7
16
19
29
21
22
£3
24
£5
31
but without substantial foliage contact, the same
chart. However# we say no specific requirements in
any of these areas.
That concludes the testimony Agricul-
ture and Markets is giving.
MR. ALFORDs Thank you, Mr. Moriello.
Does the panel have any questions for
Mr. Moriello?
Dr. Opholt?
DR. UPHOLTi Mr. Moriello, you indi-
cated that your Department is recommending certain
reentry intervals ranging from sero to three days.
If I recall the figures correctly.
Can you tell us what kind of evidence
or rationale you use in arriving at these specific
days where they were over sero?
MR. MORIELLO: It has been a common
practice in New York State among those crop users
that have used the largest volume of pesticides,
particularly these three named crops — apples,
peaches and grapes — to observe voluntarily in most
instances a one-day reentry period. It has been very
common for many years in New York State. That is
something that we are very familiar with.
Furthermore, we consulted with the
-------
I
2
3
4
S
6
7
0
9
10
8?
*2
13
14
55
SG
17
IS
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
32
professional staff and personnel at Cornell Uni-
versity# a member of which is here todaye and I am
sure will give testimony later in the day, Dr. James
Dewey, on these particular isatters.
MR, ALFORD: Any further questions :
Dr.Upholt?
DR. UPHOLTt No.
MR. ALFORD: Mr. Burnam?
MR. BURNAMi Do you think that zero
reentry will dilute some of the common practices in
the State to wait 24 hours?
MR. MORIELLO: I don't follow the
question.
time.
MR. BURNAM: You have zero reentry
MR. MORIELLOs For some chemicals,
yes.
MR. BURNAM: For some chemicals. As
a rule of thumb, do farmers usually wait 24 hours be-
fore entering a field fdr all chemicals?
MR. MORIELLO: Not necessarily. For
the more highly toxic ones, they do. Some of those
chemicals we do not feel need to wait 24 hours be-
fore you can reenter; that is why we put zero reentry
down.
-------
1
2
3
4
S
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
$3
n
to
¥8
17
18
53
20
2?
22
23
24
29
33
MR. BURKAM: At the current tirae, does
the State have any informal reentry times on any
crops?
MR. MORXELLO: As far as I know, there
are no legal or stated reentry times. This has been
a voluntary effort on the part of the cooperating
farmers and the professional staff at Cornell and
through New York State Extension Services. This is
not something new to the agro business in New York
State. We have been conducting very carefully studies
and very carefully looking at and trying to work with-
in our own set for guidelines for better than ten
years in terms of safe handling of pesticides in the
State.
As a matter of fact, almost every
meeting which would be conducted by the Extension
Service and Cornell in cooperation with the growers
at their various annual functions and quarterly
meetings always allots a section of that time to
safe handling of pesticides and their use on a vol-
untary basis for xvell over a decade.
MR. ALFORDs Mr. Burnam's question* I
believe, dealt with what your zero day recommended
entry was based on. What is it based on, just the
particular activity of the chemical?
-------
\
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
S
30
11
12
93
W
SS
16
17
38
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
3*
MR. MORIELLO: That is right.
MR. ALFORDs Or your experience?
MR. MORIELLOs We say experience in
New York State, the actual use of these materials.
As I stated earlier? we stated a dermal LD re-
50
quirement that we felt should be complied vrith. Most
of these chemicals that carry sero days — as a mat-
ter of factf I think all of these chemicals that
carry zero days — have dermal requirements over 200
milligrams per kilogram.
MR* BURHAMs Was that for the package
material or the formulation?
MR. MORIELLO? I would have to ask
Dr. Dewey that because we got it off his chart.
DR. DEWEY? That is probably packaged
material.
MR. ALFORD: Any further questions of
Mr. Moriello? Mry Beusch?
MR., BEUSCHs Earlier in your testimony#
Mr. Moriello, you mentioned that the4breakdown was
rapid. Can you point to any data or is this deduc-
tive reasoning from yoiir knowledge of the climatic
conditions in New York State?
MR. MORIELLO: First, I am sure that
data can be presented and can be made available to
-------
I
2
3
4
S
S
7
3
9
10
11
12
13
15
13
17
<8
19
SO
25
22
23
24
25
35
you before our Land Grant College at Cornell on the
very breakdown tiroes of these chemicals under the
various growing conditions in New York State.
Off the top of my head, I'm not able
to give you hard facts as to that kind of data, but
I'm reasonably certain that information could be
made available to you as many research studies have
been conducted over the years on the use of these
chemicals.
MR. BEUSCH: I think that information
would be useful.
MR. MORXELLO t Any further questions
from the panel?
(No response.)
MR. ALFORDs Any questions from the
audience? Questions are permitted from the audience
if you properly identify yourself.
(No response.)
!
MR. ALFORD: Thank you very much, Mr. j
Moriello. !
(The following is Exhibit 158j
-------
I
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
30
?!
12
IS
14
15
IS
57
18
59
20
21
2?.
23
24
25
36
MR. ALFORDs James E. Dewey? Dr.
Dewey, your statement will be identifies as Exhibit
No. 159.
DR. DEWEY s Thank you, Mr. Alford.
I am James E. Dewey, Ph, D., professor of Entomology,
Cornell Univeristy at Ithaca College, Hew York. I
was born and reared on a farm in New York State. I j
worked as Extension Pruit Specialist for four years, j
and as Professor of Insect Toxicology for 16 years
prior to assuming my present position in 1964 as
Program Leader of the Chemicals-Pesticides Program
in the New York State College of Agriculture and Life
Sciences, a statutory college of Stat© University of
New York at Cornell University.
The Chemicals-Pesticides Program is
an educational program established by the college in
1964 in recognition of environmental problems and
need for safer use of pesticides. In addition to my
college duties, I also serve as Chairman of the Pes-
ticde Advisory Committee for the New York State
Department of Environmental Conservation which is
charged with the regulation of pesticides in New York
State.
I presented a statement at the OSHA
hearings in Washington, D.C., August 22, on "Standards
-------
I
2
3
4
§
6
7
8
9
10
1!
12
93
14
IS
16
S7
16
19
20
2!
22
£3
24
2S
j
37
for Occupational Exposure to Organophosphorus Pes- I
ticides". At these hearings, I recommended in my |
statement that: j
1. Reentry intervals and regulations
should be based on need. Six relevant studies in
New York State were cited as an indication that there j
is little or no need for reentry intervals in New
York State for even the highly toxic organophosphorus
pesticides.
Commissioner Alford,may I say off the
record, that these studies are the same studies which
Mr. Moriello referred to and offered evidence in hie j
testimony.
2. Reentry intervals where needed j
should be on a regional basis.
3. The regulations should protect all
workers, not just special segments of labor.
4., The Environmental Protection
Agency should be the responsible regulatory group
with OSHA and Agriculture having an input.
5. If the need for reentry intervals
can be established, we urge that:
a. Guidelines or protocols should
be established to determine need and satisfactory
reentry intervals.
-------
!
2
3
4
5
6
7
S
9
TO
1!
32
52
14
15
ss
17
18
S 0
20
2!
22
S3
24
25
38
b» Precautionary reentry intervals
until need is determined should involve only the
highly toxic compounds, but not necessarily be limited
to only organophosphorous compounds.
c. In New York, if a precautionary
measure is determined to be necessary, the maximum
reentry period should be three days on apples,
peaches and grapes until need dictates a change.
d. Reentry intervals are not needed
for and should not include the nine organophosphates
mentioned in the permanent standard proposal, but
excluded from the June 29th emergency measure.
6. National regulations for mixing
and application of pesticides are desirable.
7. Provisions for annual review,
revision and updating through the process of public
hearing to provide flexibility in our regulations,
so that they can be responsive to our ever changing
needs, problems and technology.
A copy of my statement at the OSEA
Washington hearings is attached to this statement
for EPA's convenience.
Today, I wish to discuss the broader
standards proposed by EPA. Because of the breadth
of this proposal, I cannot be as specific or as
-------
!
2
S
4
B
6
7
6
S
10
1!
\Z
13
U
IS
16
17
18
!S
2©
21
22
22
24
£5
39
detailed as I would like to be.
Wo at the New York State Collage of
Agriculture and Life Sciences are in favor of and
have worked hard to support the development of strong,
constructive regulations and educational programs too
numerous to document in the time allotted roe to enable
the safe and effective use of pesticides in a manner
which is safe to the user, the worker, the consumer
and the environment.
We will support all appropriate and
necessary measures designed to protect workers from
undue exposure to pesticides. However, we are not
interested in regulations for the sake of regulations
alone. It is important that need first be established,
that the regulations are responsive to need and re-
cognition that regulations alone will not resolve
the problem.
Almost any legislation will be inef-
fective without education. In many instances,
"education rather than legislation" has a sound basis.
In addition to being responsive to a need, regula-
tions should be constructive and flexible to enable
them to keep pace with changing needs and technology.
Reentry: if reentry intervals are
a necessary precaution for workers, we recognize the
-------
5
2
3
4
6
6
7
8
9
10
11
«
13
14
15
16
\1
S8
19
20
21
9.1
23
24
25
MO
need as does EPA for a siraple, straightforward system
to indicate reentry times that will be easily under-
stood. We feel, however, that the system should not
be so simple that it becomes overcautious and limits
the use of materials, threatens the safety of the
employee by misguiding him, handicaps bin or causes
the undue loss of crops.
We believe that EPA's proposal based
on currently used and generally known categories of
toxicity keyed to signal words on current labels and
intervals as proposed, although simple,, would be over-
cautious and impose undue hardship in the use of many
materials on crops where little or no hazard exists.
Most of our pesticide labels have sig-
nal words that are generally based on acute oral toxicity
values to experimental animals while dermal toxicity
is more closely associated with reentry problems.
In the field, it is a hazard, risk of
danger, rather than toxicity that is critical. A
relatively safe formulation of a toxicant applied at
a high rate per acre may offer more hazard than a
highly toxic material at a low rate of actual toxicity
per acre. Hazard is not only dependent on the in-
herent toxicity of a chemical, but also on the rate
or concentration as used, the formulation rate of
-------
ill
breakdown, number at spplicat-ioirs, tfpa a£ Ct£p,
•size j&std csEZsit^1 ci Ecliaqp -that it is applied to;
residues present as- wall as the duration and inten-
sity of exposure' and the crop treated, -the osaqe
and exposure of the crops, temperature, raiftEa.ll,
cultural practices and other factors.
If it becomes apparent that, the use
of a paiiicuiai chariosl re. erae sxop r^ay ofS-sr little
or no hazard to field workers while the same cfrsrrawil
on another ci'op might offer sufficient ha sard to re-
quire precautionary measuresF this suggests that it
would be aost desirable if possible "to evaluate each,
pesticide and crop on an individual basis.
En. m&klnq evalusfciocs for necessity
of reentry intervals, consideration should be given
to the "use experience", including lack of reported
and confirxr.esi illnesses resulting from £ particular
use*
I think all of us are agreeci t-hat re-
gardless of the1 pesticide being used, that ot>ly
people that should be in the area at the tins® of
treatment are those associated with its application,
Furtherf most of us would agree that reentry by
other varicers should r.c-t -take place if it cas pos-
sibly bs avoided until the spray baa thoroughly
-------
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
55
32
13
14
15
!6
17
38
IS
20
21
22
23
2«
25
kz
dried. Most of us working in the field with pesti-
cides have recommended varying intervals of time
before reentry depending on the pesticide, the con-
centration used, the crop and type and duration of
the exposure emtioipated. j
Three days has been our voluntary
maximum in New York State on fruit trees and some
vegetables with par a thion <, Guthion has been even
more widely used in our apple orchards with a sug-
gested interval of one or two days. One day for
TEPP on the same crops has been normal» I know of
no reentry problems with these highly toxic materi-
als in Sew York State resulting from these practices.
On muck grown lettuce, we recommend
a two-day interval for Phosdrin with growers using
this material for a cleanup spray against aphids two
days prior to harvest. This is an important spray
because if the aphids are not controlled, the crop
will be unmarketable. Present marketing standards
make any head unmarketable that has a cluster of
over five aphids per head, but more important, if a
buyer finds any aphids, he will reject the whole
field. It, therefore, is essential that adequate
control measures remain available if the crop is
to continue to be grown.
-------
8
a
3
4
6
6
7
©
2
10
SJ
12
IS
3S
IS
1?
18
19
20
13
22
23
24
23
43
We should not require protective cloth-
ing that will be a greater threat to the workers'
health than the pesticide he is being protected
against.
We do not know of any cases of worker
illness in harvesting lettuce in Hew York following
our recommended practice, in.spite of the fact
special protective clothing is not worn.
Greenhouse crops present special prob-
lems with diverse crops in different stages of
growth requiring different treatments frequently
being grown simultaneously in the same house. In
many cases, due to the specialized nature of each
operation, individual judgments are needed to provide
acceptable procedures, some low residue producing
formulations of highly toxic materials such as
smokes, fogs or aerosols are used which would not
require the intervals as required for sprays or gusts
and, in practice, reentries have been limited tc hours
rather than days.
Few, if any, reports of illness of
workers have come to our attention as a result of
reentry and contact with treated foliage. As a pre-
cautionary measure, some may feel it is desirable to
establish formal reentry intervals in place of the
-------
1
z
3
4
S
6
7
a
9
30
?]
92
33
14
35
36
37
IB
39
20
23
22
n
24
25
voluntary intervals now in practice. I feel that
most of the compounds that might be of concern in
New York State would h© classified in label Category
I, with perhaps a few in Category II that are so
categorized because of their dermal toxicity* These
might be subject to intervals of three, two or one
day based upon demonstrable problems in the field.
A three-day interval for the maximum
registered concentration of rate of application would
seem adequate for the most hazardous materials. A
reduction in reentry could be established proportion-
ate to the reduction of concentration used from the
maximum. It would seem to me that only the excep-
tional materials in label Categories III or IV would
require any reentry interval beyond drying.
I am not aware of any situation in
New York State that would even suggest the need for
intervals of five days or longer such as those sag-
gested in Subgroup B of the July 31, 1973 notice.
After the first 24 hours have elapsed
following application, it would be desirable to use
cooler, lightweight, comfortable protective clothing,
especially in hot weather, as the hazard from heat
stress may override the hazard from pesticide ex-
posure. Frequently in the past, heavy, dark,
-------
3
2
S
4
2
6
?
e
9
SO
It
it
S3
S4
15
S3
37
IS
59
20
21
22
23
24
23
45
non-porous, unwieldy, protective clothing has been
recommended which is quickly discarded after the
first 10 or 15 mixiutes due to the discomfort and
difficulty of working in it. D many instances,
lightweight protective clothing, though falling short
of maximum protection, would be much more effective
because it would be worn than that providing maximum
protection# but which is heavy, hot, unwieldy, un-
comfortable and discarded.
TheBe reasonable requirements, if
followed, will be more effective than strict, unprac-
tical requirements that the worker finds it difficult
to work in and cannot or will not live with. Research
is badly needed for the development of lightweight,
comfortable clothing that will protect the worker
when protection is necessary.
Additional stress on cleanliness will
be helpful. The use of goggles or respirators under
most conditions of reentry is not practical or neces-
sary.
Some who have strongly urged adoption
of emergency practices for reentry and protection
clothing have indicated that migrant workers would
not report illnesses for fear of losing their jobs
or would not have enough money for a doctor. It
-------
i
2
3
4
S
6
7
8
8
30
?s
S2
13
94
fS
§s
n
13
;9
20
Si
22
23
tA
25
46
should be pointed out that for the last seven years,
in New York State, there have been free clinics to
which migrants could go without fear of losing their
jobs. There have also been OEO legal action groups
available and active in the State that are either to
find and pursue such cases, yet few if any valid
documented cases have been reported and you might
see the OSHA testimony as further verification of
this.
Considering the number of studies made
and the interested groups involved, I find it diffi-
cult to believe that, if a problem exists, we would
not be aware of it.
Mixing. Most pesticide illnesses
brought to our' attention have occurred as a result of
mixing or applying rather than from reentry. Conse-
quently, I feel that these areas deserve consideration.
Protective regimens may differ according to the spe-
cific situation and no one procedure is the best for
ail situations, but certain basic safety procedures
should be common to all.
One may easily be overexposed while
mixing highly toxic materials. Contamination of
hands resulting from poor measuring and transfer pro-
cedures, contamination of other parts of the body
-------
1
2
S
4
S
8
7
8
&
10
II
32
13
14
SB
36
17
13
19
20
2!
22
g§
m
£5
**7
and clothing resulting from spillsf and inhalation
of toxic dust arising from dry materials are all
hazards that are intensified when handling concen-
trates during mixing procedures. I feel that this in
the time when poisoning is most likely to occur.
Whenever possible, mixing should taJce
place in the open or under conditions of good venti-
lation in order to keep the concentration of dust or
fumes in the air low. There should be an adequate
supply of clean waterP soap, detergent or hand cleaner
said clean towels, close by, both for emergency and
for routine clean up.
The person mixing should be trained in
the necessary safe handling techniques and should be
instructed in the symptoms of poisoning by the highly
toxic pesticide he is using.
Certain basic protective equipment and
clothing should be prescribed for any mixing situation
involving highly toxic materials. The mixer should
wear goggles or a face shield to prevent splashes or
dust contamination of the eyes. Many would prefer
a face shield to goggles since the whole face is
covered and since visibility is better, particularly
if the wearer wears eyeglasses. On the other hand,
under dusty conditions, the goggles might be preferred,
-------
1
a
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
5!
52
13
U
35
13
U
18
20
?A
22
23
24
25
48
since they would better keep toxic dust out of the
eyes. Would it be reasonable to permit the user to
make the choice?
A clean, well maintained respirator
approved for the pesticides being mixed is a must.
Usually one thinks of its use when handling dry ma-
terials, but the respirator also protects against
toxic fumes and splashes on the lower face and mouth.
Waterproof foot gear that covers the ankles and with
pant legs outside should also be worn when mixing
any highly toxic materials.
In ^addition to the basic protective
gear needed, we feel that those people regularly
mixing highly toxic wettable powders into the sprayed
should have freshly laundered coveralls or similar
tightly woven oute.r clothing, a washable cap or hat,
and clean, washable or disposable gloves. Several
pairs of clean glbves should be available so they
can be changed as soon as any pesticide penetration
into the inside ocrcurs.
When regularly mixing highly toxic
liquids, we feel that waterproof outer clothing or
a rubber apron over coveralls and unlined rubber
gloves should be usecl in addition to or in place of
the protective gear outlined for dry formulations.
-------
I
&
3
«
3
$
7
8
9
10
32
13
14
S5
?6
17
19
20
23
22
23
24
25
t
49
In one of the earlier proposed OSHA standards for
mixing and application, the presence of at least
two persons for the mixing operation was proposed.
Such a requirement would work an undue hardship on
many of our qualified, competent applicators. Con-
sideration might be given to requiring the presence
of two individuals while handling highly toxic ma-
terials if neither is a certified applicator. A
single individual who is a certified applicator would
be permitted to mix highly toxic pesticides without
the presence of another.
Individual certified applicators will
have varying requirements for safe measuring, weigh-
ing, transferring and mixing of highly toxic materials,
depending on pesticides, quantities used, formulations,
types of containers, et cetera.
Again, however, there are basic re-
quirements that should be applicable to all. The
mixing area should be so located and equipped that
those mixing and the surrounding environment are not
exposed or contaminated by spills, drainage, runoff,
back siphoning, et cetera.
Applying. Generally speaking, protec-
tive clothing and equipment specified for mixing is |
also suitable when applying. Some modification may
-------
50
be necessary. For example, if the applicator is ex-
posed to heavy downward drift of highly toxic sprays
he should wear a wide brimmed, waterproof hat and
waterproof outer clothing. On the other hand, if
downward drift is not a serious consideration, he
may wear lightweight, porous clothing v?hile applying,
but cover this with waterproof gear while back at the
mixing station if he is also mixing.
Reference to the label will provide
guidelines for the type of protective gear to be used.
Again, it is necessary that the protective gear and
clothing be comfortable so that it will be used.
Some compromise may b© necessary to give comfort
while still giving adequate protection. Heavy rubber
clothing worn under hot or humid conditions may pose
more of a health hazard from stress than pesticides,
and in some cases;, may accelerate absorption of pes~
ticides.
It is our understanding that the re-
sults obtained in the five- or six-year pesticide
community studies conducted cooperatively by EPA and
the Hew Jersey Department of Health with EPA funds,
verifies many of the studies we have cited in our
statement at this and the OSHA hearing on reentry,
mixing and application of pesticides. However, we
-------
I
2
9
4
e
7
3
9
10
1!
12
13
14
«5
S3
17
SG
38
£3
£1
22
23
241
23
51
cannot be certain of this inasmuch as we have not
been able to obtain copies of the reports of these
studies other than by word of mouth.
It would be helpful if all of the in-
formation relative to these problems could be made
available to thoae working with pesticides so all
could benefit.
We would like to urge the Environ-
mental Protection Agency to undertake or to support
research which would:
1. Monitor cholinesterase levels of
workers exposed to highly toxic organophosphorus and
carbonate pesticides, determine foliage residues in
"high exposure" cropse and in general establish a
base for need for the protection of workers.
2. Provide for the development of
reasonably priced, launderable, lightweight, comfort-
able protective clothing suitable for mixing and
application in particular„ but also suitable as pro-
tective clothing for field workers who must work in
treated fields and make this information available to
pesticide users.
3. Evaluate commercial respirators
suitable for pesticide use and make this information
available to pesticide users. No list of suitable
-------
t
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
iO
r.
12
93
14
15
16
17
ie
19
20
25
22
2 3
£4
25
52
pesticide respirators has been published since 1966.
4. Make available the information and
results obtained from the Regional Pesticide Com-
munity Studies to those working with pesticides so
that all may benefit.
Also t we urge that a provision be made
in any of these regulations for annual review when
necessary through 1;he vehicle of a public hearing for
any changes that might be necessitated by new infor-
mation, technology,1 problem situations that arise in
the field or any other condition suggesting the need
for change. These requests for review and hearing
should be supported by documented facts and discussion
of the problems involved.
Such a provision will provide flexi-
bility for responding to need and to correct errors
when they have been made in a minimum amount of time.
I will not repeat my summary which is
also attached. Thanh you for the opportunity of pre-
senting this materia!.
MR. M/FORDs Thank you, Dr. Dewey.
Off the record.
(Discussion had off the record.)
MR. AliPORD: Back on the record.
Are there questions for Dr. Dewey from
-------
I
2
3
4
3
3
7
8
9
10
i\
12
J3
14
55
16
n
18
IS
20
2?
22
SB
24
25
53
the Panel? I
Dr. Uphoit?
DR. UPHOLT: Early in your testimonyt
j
Dr. Dewey, you indicated that for certain pesticides
you would recommend three days until need dictates
a change. Can you tell us what type of evidence you
would accept as a need that would dictate a change,
presumably one way or the other, of this three-day
interval?
DR. DEWEYj Well, let me say first
that ever since we first recoicmended parathion in New
York State, we have been very much interested in the
possibility of phosphate poisoning of our users of
these peBticides. This was the reason for our
initial study which was on a NSF grant, and that has
been referred to earlier. We have continually tried
to observe what was going on in the field and I think
that we would be very willing to accept good sound
medical opinion in this area; that we do not claim
any corner on the market as to where one diagnoses
— or the critical point when the situation becomes
critical? however, in lieu of this, I think all of
us have gone on what we considered by the authorities
that, if a significant drop in the cholinesterase
levels of those that were exposed occurred, that then
-------
I
2
3
4
5
6
7
a
9
DO
at
32
13
U
15
16
17
13
19
20
2t
22
23
2A
25
54
some action should be taken to avoid this kind of
significant drop. The study that was referred to in
Orange County indicated, for example, that the field
workers did not suffer significant drop in cholin-
esterase levels while, I think it was, 20 percent of
those applying and mixing pesticides did show a sig-
nificant drop.
I would interpret this in my o»m
method of evaluation that to appraise this as saying
that mixers and applicators are the high hazard peo-
ple, that they need protection and adequate protective
measures which should be ensured.
Field workers did not show any indi-
cation of significant reductions which would seem to
indicate that there does not appear to be a hazard.
Now, if somebody can come up with information to indi-
cate that there indeed is hazard here, then I am just
as interested in protecting workers as I am anybody
else. It is a matter of where do you draw lines.
MR. ALFORDs I believe, Dr. Dewey, you
have answered Dr. Upholt's question, that particular
question.
DR. UPHOLTs Let me query on the next
step. If I interpret what you have been saying, Jim,
it is on the basis of clinical evidence you might
-------
55
extend the period longer — if the evidence justifies
it?
DR. DEWEY: Yes. If we have this kind
of evidence, fine.
DR. UPHOLT: Would there be any kind
of evidence that would justify reducing —
DR. DEWEY; Reducing the time interval?
DR. UPHOLTs Yes.
DR. DEWEY: Well, it would seem to me
that, if we establish one every five days, I think
what we are really doing is, if we're honest, picking
it out of the air arbitrarily. Now, I guess I would
go along with the idea that, if you did not have any
trouble at five, you might want to back off to four
and try to find out where the critical point is. I
don't see why we should be limiting the use of the
materials — the growers, the workers — of getting
a job done if there indeed is no hazard.
DR. UPHOLTz Would you suggest planned
observations of these intervals at whatever interval
is suggested in order to determine whether it could
be reduced, or would you just say that the failure to
show any poisons would justify a reduction?
DR. DEWEYs Well, in my testimony in
Washington at the OSHA hearings, I recommended
-------
1
s
3
4
5
S
7
8
3
fO
2?
IS
13
U
liS
?s
S7
IS
18
20
?A
22
23
24
25
56
consideration be given by OSHA or EPA or whoever hac
the responsibility of providing for the cholinesterase
monitoring of all workers that are exposed to highly
toxic pesticides, to counter this and to find out
just exactly where the cutoff point is. It seems to
me this is the only way we're going to find it out.
DR. OPHOLTs Okay. One other question:
You talked to some extent about the possibility of
lightweight and comfortable protective clothing and
indicated^ I think, among others, there should be
some research and alBO EPA should develop some. Are
you aware of anyone now doing research along these
lines? I am particularly interested in people who
are qualified in doing research.
DR. DEWEY; I must confess that I am
not aware of anyone specifically working on this end.
Now, I am familiar with the fact that there are some
companies that are working with different types of
clothing, but it seems to me that if we indeed are
concerned in protecting the. workers to the extent
that we are going to all these hearings and so forth,
than then we should also try to encourage the kind of
research and development of clothing that will not
only protect the wearer, but it will also be reason-
ably comfortable so he can bear to be out there
-------
56 f
2.
8
4
5
€
7
8
9
to
52
12
IS
14
35
W
17
18
39
m
28
g2
23
24
2§
57
working in the heat of the day.
DR. UPHOLTs Protect hiM from over-
heating as well as the dust?
DR. DEWEY: Right.
DR. UPHOLTs Thank you.
MR. ALFORDs Any further questions
from the Panel?
(No response.)
MR. ALFQRD: Any questions from the
audience?
(No response.)
MR. ALFORDs Thank you. Dr. Dewey,
(The following is Exhibit 159t
-------
1
2
3
4
5
<5
7
8
9
10
91
i2
13
15
15
16
?7
18
IS
20
2?
22
S3
24
25
I
58 I
MR. ALFORDs E. G. Glass?
DR. DEWEYs Dr. Glass will not be
present today. Be planned to enter his letter
which Mr. Moriello has already entered# so I think
the testimony he planned to present has been presented.
MR. ALFORDs Thank you.
Leland Eeebe?
Mr. Beebe, your statement will be Iden-
tifiea as Exhibit 160.
Mr. Beebe, you are listed as repre-
senting the Farm Bureau. How much time do you think
you will need to present your testimony?
MR. BEEBE: Five minutessix* seven
(
maybe.
MR. ALFORDs Proceed.
MR. BEEBE: I have my prepared state-
ment and I would like to present a producer as a part
of my statement.
MR. ALFORDj That will be find.
MR. BEEBE: Mr. Alford, ladies and
gentlemen, my name is Leland Beebe, Director of Public
Affairs for the New York Farm Bureaxi. New York Farm
Bureau has a membership of 16,110 families represent-
ing producers of all agricultural commodities in New
York State. We appreciate this opportunity to be
-------
59
heard.
Because we feel it important that
this committee receive expert testimony from those
most concerned regarding the subject under consider-
ation, namely, the farmer producers, we have invited
aad will introduce at the conclusion of these brief
remarks one producer to testify.
Mr. Hearing Examiner, we attempted to
get three producers, but the time of year, the status
of the harvest season and the weather, we were really
unable to get but one producer to be here today.
Farm Bureau as an organization and its
members generally are concerned with farm safety.
This concern includes farm workers, the public and
most importantly, the farmer, who is generally also
the applicator.
In relation to pesticides3 we believe
the absence of any record of serious pesticide prob-
lems justifies our contention that more restrictive
standards for reentry than presently recommended are
uncalled for. We further suggest the use of any
"emergency" designations as has been suggested by
the Occupational Safety and Health Administration
as uncalled for and unjustified as it relates to New
York crops, weather, applications, uses and so forth.
-------
I
2
3
4
5
S
7
8
9
10
1!
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
38
20
21
22
23
24
25
60
Wa suggest that reentry standards, protective cloth-
ing and other standards relative to safe handling and
application of pesticides must be established on the
basis of research and experience with the problem,
the results of which will likely vary with each
state, each crop and varying weather conditions.
We cannot accept the theory or appli-
cation of national reentry standards.
Farm Bureau will support an Increase
in research effort to make those determinations. In
the meantime, in our opinion,, present label standards
now enforceable are adequate.
In New York we rely heavily on the
advice and counsel of Cornell University College of
Agriculture and Life Sciences relative to many agri-
cultural management decisions, including pesticide
use, application and safety standards. In this re-
spect, we support the statement to be presented to
this hearing by Professor James Dewey.
Farmers are concerned with land post-
ing requirements proposed initially by OSHA. This
procedure would be unsatisfactory for two reasons:
1. It would be no more effective way
to influence the public not to purchase farm commodi-
ties.
-------
I
2
3
4
5
S
7
3
B
SO
51
!2
IS
14
fig
!7
1$
?&
20
21
22
23
24
25
61
2< It would lead to wholesale tres-
pass posting which would be unwise from everyone's
standpoint and of major concern to sportsmen.
May we also focus attention on costs.
Additional standards, rules and regulations cannot
help but increase food costs. A scarcity of farm
workers willing to wear and work with cumbersoma,
overbearing protective clothing will only lead to
further mechanization and higher costs, a price we
believe consumers are not willing to shoulder on the
basis of lack of proof and need for the additional
restrictions in New York.
May we now introduce our farm producer
witness that we have with us, Mr. Louis Ciraasi from
Portland, New York, specializing in growing Concord
and wine grapes, I believe last year a hundred acres.
(The following is Exhibit 160s
-------
f
2
3
4
S
6
7
8
S
10
li
32
33
14
155
17
IS
13
20
at
22
23
44
2S
1
6S J
i
MR. LOUIS CIM&SXs Chairmanf ladies and |
i
gentlemen, my statements will be brief. My name is j
Louis Ciraasi. My address is 8814 Onthanlc Road,
Portland, New York, 14769. My vineyards surround
our home. I have lived asaong them off tha record 59
years.
I started farming in 1928 and have
sprayed each year since. In the last 45 years, we
always depended on spraying to protect our crops.
Prior to 1940, spray equipment and materials avail-
able to us were not adequate. After 1940# the
development of more efficient tractors, sprayers and
spray materials, plus trained specialists, who ware
able to teach us how to apply the sprays safely and
effectively, revolutionised our business.
The yields and quality of our crops
increased tremendously. The increased yield per acre
helped the growers overcome the cost of production
and gave the processors a ready supply of quality
grapes which resulted in a booming industry.
In the last 45 years, I increased my
vineyards steadily and in 1972, I operated approxi- j
mately 100 acres of grapes. I have used over the
years arsenate of lead, nicotine sulfate, DDT,
methoxyclor, sevin„ parathion, guthion and other
-------
62 1
2
a
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
S3
13
14
86
16
17
18
S§
20
2:
22
24
23
63
recommended insecticides. We always follow the pro-
grams developed by our research specialists in Hew
York State in regard to amounts of material to use
per acre, time of application and protection of per-
sons who may coma in contact with the spray material.
Most of ov.r grape farmers use insecticides three
tines a years at post bloom/ ten days later and then
at the second brood berry moth time, about August 8th.
Unless a special problem develops,
these three sprays usually are effective. On my farm,
we have not experienced illness to ourselves or our
workers due to reentry after spraying or in operating
the sprayers.
I have been very active in farm organ-
isations and served on the following;
I have been on the Board of Directors
and Executive Committee of the National Grape Co-op.
I serve Chautauqua County Farm Bureau, Board of
Directors. I am on the Pomfre C & B Co-op, Board of
Directors and Vice President of the former C & B,
and I am a member at the present time of the Concord
Council, Inc. In the pa3t, I belonged to the Port-
land, Chautauqua and Erie Co-op, and the Portland
Fruit Growers Co-op.
In serving these organizations, it was
-------
J
2
3
4
3
6
7
8
9
JO
21
12
13
14
33
36
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
64
my privilege to get acquainted with many farmers in
most of the Concord grape growing areas of the United
States. The concensus of the information available
to me is that we have no problem from reentry after
spraying or during the operation of spraying that
has not already been taken care of by our very capa-
ble research men.. The limited time of spraying in
our vineyards does not pose a problem of a long-
time contact with spray materials.
The proposed regulations are not needed
in our vineyards and would only result in extra ex-
pense for the operator and layoffs for the workers.
Thank you, sir.
MR. BSEBE: Thank you, Mr. Cimasi.
Mr. Chairman, that completes our
presentation.
MR. ALFORD: Mr. Cimasi? did you read
word for word from your statement?
MR. CIMASI: Approximately, yes.
MR. ALFORD: It will be recorded, so
if you will just leave the copies, we will assign
Exhibit No. It will be part of the record. Would
you remain at the podium a minute, please?
Does the Panel have any questions?
DR. UPHOLTs I would like to ask, Mr.
-------
i
2
S
6
5
e
7
8
0
SO
11
32
S3
14
15
S£
17
16
13
SO
2!
22
23
24
25
65
CimaBi, how long do you normally remain out of your
vineyard after it has been sprayed? What are your
normal habits in this regard?
MRe C1MASI: We always wait one day,
even on the very safest material; we always wait for
it to dry. In my case, I'm a small grower and the
pressure on me to really get in there isn't so great
as it would be possibly for an apple grower who has
300, 400 acres, so I can manage my work. I can do a
lot of things on ray own.
We have, as I said before, excellent
advice from our research people. They keep us well
informed. We spray into the wind all the time. In
the grape vineyards/ we take every other row. We
just keep working in the wind. We have a cab that
protects us. Whenever we have these real poisonous
materials, we are very careful with mixing. We've
been well taken care of by our research people.
MR. ALFORD: You do normally stay out
of the field for one day after treatment?
MR. CIMASI: In all cases for one day.
DR. UPHOLT: Would establishing, say,
two days hurt your operations seriously, remaining
out two days?
MR. CIMASIs It isn't so much what it
-------
1
2
3
4
s
6
7
8
9
iO
n
12
13
M
35
36
17
S8
19
20
2*
22
23
24
25
66
would do to my personal operation now as what it might
do in the future. If we go into more Geneva double
curtain type of trellises, then we'd have a problem
of combing that would come at this season of the
year, and then too long an interval of reentry would
be very serious in limiting the time that your workers
could get into these vineyards„
At the present time, my percentage of
Geneva double curtain trellises isn't so great com-
pared to the others, but some of our farmers have
put all of their grapes in the Geneva double type
curtain trellises, where you have to get in there and
do quite a bit of hand work.
In developing machines, well, this
might solve it, but I! don't know, but it would be a
serious thing for them.
DR. UPHCLT: In terms of two days,
you're talking about now?
MR. CXMASI: Two days I don't believe
would harm most people.
DR. UPHOLTs Three probably would?
I'm just trying to get some idea. I think it is
safe to assume that the longer the delay is, the
more difficult it would be. I'm just trying to get
some feel of what order of magnitude you are concerned
-------
1
2
3
4
5
€
7
8
9
19
".5
12
13
U
15
i8
17
id
18
26
21
22
23
24
25
about.
MR. CIMASX: Did you want me
MR. ALFORDs I believe he answered.
DR. UPHOLT% I think yes.
MR. ALPORD: I believe he answered
your question, Dr. Upholt, that he didn't think two
days would.
MR. CIMASI: In ray personal case, it
wouldn't be that serious. It would be a little more
so for these large growers that have all Geneva
double curtain type trellises, if they're relying a
good deal on hand labor to comb. That means pulling
the cans down so the sun can get at them.
MR. ALFORDs Any further questions?
(No response.)
MR. ALFORD; Any questions from the
audience or either of these gentlemen?
(No response.)
MR. ALFORDs Thank you very much.
MR. BEEBEs Thank you.
MR.1 ALFORDs Michael J. Muscarella.
Is Mr. Muscarella here?
MR. BEEBEs Mr. Muscarella will not be
here today, Mr. Hearing Officer.
MR. ALFORDi John H. Walker. Is Mr.
-------
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
30
11
12
IS
u
15
36
17
16
10
20
SI
22
23
24
25
68
Walker present representing the Society of American
Florists and Ornamental Horticulturists?
(No response.)
MR. ALPORDs Jack Gill?
(No response.)
MR.' ALFORD: Is Mr. Gill present?
John Brookins.
DR. DEWEY s X think Mr. Brookins will
be in this afternoon.
MR. ALFORDs Rockwood N. Berry?
Mr. Berry, we have your request on
behalf of the Apple Institute of New York and New
England for, I believe, 11 witnesses to appear. How
many of these people are present?
MR. BERRY: Mr. Alford/ we have from
my last count, six. They will be very brief. My
only purpose in being here would be to introduce them
and let them proceed with their testimony.
MR. ALFORD: How much time do you think
will be needed for them to properly present their
testimony?
MR. BERRYs I think all six of them
can complete it in about 20 minutes.
MR. ALFORD: You may introduce them
and they can certainly take up to 30 to 45 minutes
-------
t
2
3
4
5
S
7
S
9
10
SS
12
53
94
SS
IS
5?
IS
IS
2.0
8?
£2
23
24
25
69
if necessary for all.
MR, BERRYs Thank you very much, sir.
We appreciate that because these gentlemen are very
busy completing their harvest and they're very
anxious to get back and get their apples before they
freeze.
MR. MiFORD: Did you submit a state-
ment?
MR. BERRY; I do not have a statement
to submit, sir.
MR. ALFORDs Very well.
MR. BERRY: I would like to call Dr.
Arthur Burrell from Peru, New York.
MR. ALFORD• Your statement will be
identified as Mo. 161.
DR. BUREELL; Thank you very much, Mr.
Chairman, and friends. I think that Mr. Berry was
rather optimistic in saying that all six of us could
complete our testimony in 15 or 20 minutes because
the degree of disturbance which has been caused by
the matter that is up for discussion is so grave that
it seems necessary that a number of us on behalf of
the New York - New England Apple Institute, the New
York State Horticultural Society and other organiza-
tions be given enough time to give a reasonable
-------
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
*2
13
14
IS
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
.
TO
picture of the situation and how it would affect us.
We would have a roomful of fruit
growers if the bearing had not been called at the
worst time of the entire year for us. Many people
think that was deliberate to keep us away. I don't
think it was true, but it simply represents the lack
of knowledge on the part of that group that plans to
regulate us.
MR, ALFORD: Dr. Burrell* we will cer-
tainly give you an opportunity to speak, but I
wouldn't use too much of it in preliminaries. You
may proceed.
DR. BDRRELL: Thank you very much, sir.
I am here in a dual role in that as 1
was getting ready for bed last night„ Philip Green,
my neighbor, who prepared a statement, is unable to
be here because he had an accident and asked me if I
would present his in addition, so that my own and his,
I will abbreviate somewhat with the privilege of en-
tering them into the record and hope that this record
will be read and not buried.
My name is Arthur B. Burrell, Ph^ D.
I speak from a background of 50 years of pertinent
experience, starting as a laborer and spray man in
orchards in 1923 and '24, 34 years connected with
-------
1
2
3
4
5
S
7
8
9
10
tl
12
13
34
IS
W
17
18
19
20
23
22
23
23
71
Cornell University Department of Plant Pathology j
in the College of Agriculture, and during this entire 1
1
50 years, I have been experimenting in the orchards j
8
with pesticides, insecticides, fungicides and in re- j
cent years with herbicides as well.
Being a fruit grower and in addition j
to that I have been a director and a president of a j
number of organizations, including the New York State
Horticultural Society, the Northeastern Division of
the American Phytopathological Society and several
others. I have spoken to an conducted discussions in
hundreds of meetings of fruit growers in a dozen or
more states, and by reason of my close association
and intimate contact with these fruit growers, I
practically well know what the situation is.
If there had been any troubles from
reentry into orchards as a result of use of pesti-
cides, I think I would be very likely to know about
them, and not a single instance has come to my atten-
tion. In some of the OSHA hearings — and I have read
the proceedings of all I could get of the previous
hearings — some migrants by self-diagnosis or other-
wise have attributed certain symptoms to pesticide
exposures. These symptoms often have been so vague
as to make diagnosis impossible.
-------
1
2
3
4
S
6
7
e
9
10
tl
12
13
14
IS
16
37
58
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
72
Now, the commonest cause of upset
stomach and headache among our workers appear to have
been alcohol and loss of sleep after a night on the
town. Their eating habits and general sanitation
habits could easily permit the transfer of organisms
that would cause intestinal upsets and rashes could
be due to allergy to crop plants or weeds or poison
ivy and drugs may enter into an uncertain extent,
have given a summary of the study already referred to
in New York State and Vermont by which Dr. Charles
Houston of the College of Medicine at the University
of Vermont had a member of his 9taff take blood sam-
ples of fruit growers on both sides of Lake Chomplain
who had varying degriees of exposure to organophos- j
phorus pesticides,, but for the most part, so far as
possible, included those who had mixed the sprays and
applied the sprays. j
As' stated, in 122 blood samples taken
from 77 individuals, only one showed an apparent re-
duction of 25 percent in cholinesterase, and the next
day the cholinesteras'e levels in his blood was normal.
Having been in research work most of
my life, I am well aware that one case out of 122
could easily have been error in analysis. I wish I
could get my own research down to as few errors as
!
-------
I
2
3
4
5
6
1
3
9
10
SI
12
IS
U
15
f®
S7
S8
3S
20
2?
g2
23
&B
25
73
that, but nobody felt any symptoms. The medical
examiner quizzed all of us. Our own orchard was in-
cluded among it as well as our spray applicator. They
tried to find out anything because actually I think
this man started off with a feeling there was a very
serious problem. He wound up a little short because
he decided that no problem existed so far as we were
aware, and I have appended a reference to that study.
Now, there have also been cosaments in
previous hearings to indicate that the fruit grower
makes little attempt to safen the procedure for his
workers. I have made a long list which X won't read
you here of the numerous precautions that we take in
making sure that our spray men are safe while they
put the sprays on,: and I think that rather similar
precautions, are taken on the part of a great many
other workers.
They include almost all the things that
have been said, and in addition to a number of others,
and I would call attention to the fact that in the
northeast, most spraying of orchards is done by the
owner of the orchard or a member of his family.
Now, in the larger applications, that
is not the case, but in the majority of orchards, that
is how the spraying is done. Even if the larger
-------
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
6
9
JQ
1 !
12
13
14
15
IS
17
18
19
ZO
21
22
23
£4
25
jH
operations/ in a large percent of the cases, the owner
of the orchard is at the filling station, mixes the
materials, coaches and directs the spray men.
I would also call your attention to a
little bit of the nature of the operation itself.
Nearly all spraying is now by air blast
sprayers* I did a bit of experimental work for 15
years on the development of such a thing, so X am
rather familiar with that. In most instances, the
applicator in orchards rides on a tractor and by re~
mote control controls how the spray goes out of the
machine. The discharge point of that spray is nor-
mally 15 or 20 feet back of him; consequently, he is
not like I was in the early days carrying a gun,
having the wind blow the stuff in my face. All of
us quit spraying when the wind is strong and we take
into account the direction of the wind and how we
apply the spray.
That type of precaution, which is
very widely practiced, is the principle reason that
these things which are highly toxic have not caused
the damage that you might think they would have
caused.
I am astounded that the educational
record that has been carried out by the Colleges of
-------
8
2
S
4
5
6
7
8
S
to
n
12
23
Ui
IS
10
n
m
Yd
20
21
22
S3
24
25
75
Agriculture, experimental stations, the pesticide
companies and the coaching by the fruit growers has
resulted in apparently no cases o£ damage to the in-
dividual. Why should we bring in a whole set of new
regulations in our area in our industry when no
cases seem to have occurred in which anybody has been
harmed, and I don't talk from a remote standpoint,
either. I am very often on the opposite side of the
spray machine to see what the coverage is, and
climbing the tree to see the coverage and I've used
every one — not every one, but as toxic materials as
are on the list.
Now, we don't use a toxic material if
we can get something that is less toxic that will do
the job, but by the common sense precautions have re-
sulted in such a record of safety.
Reference has been made to these nine
relatively mild materials that were removed from the
OSHA list because of- their non~hazardous character,
and for reasons unknown to me were put right back
into the EPA list. Why in the world was that done?
The evidence is overwhelming that
there is no need of that kind of inclusion, and yet
whether they just wanted to set them up so they could
appear to make some concessions, I'm sure I don't
-------
t
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
?J
?2
13
14
15
16
37
IS
39
20
21
22
23
24
25
76
know, but these compounds certainly should be exempt
of any regulations that should be ever put in for
any kind of crops and situations.
Second, Assistant Secretary of Labor,
Mr. Stender, was quoted in some of the proceedings
as being uninterested; in the effect of any regulations
on the economic well being of farmers. He said that
was not his concern if the reports in the meeting
were correct.
Well/ in spite of that, George Meany,
the President of the' AFL-CIO has been tremendously
concerned about the cost of food. There are lots of
fruit growers that are on the verge of bankruptcy and
will have to go out of business if we add any regu-
lations and procedures that are going to cost them a
whole lot of money.
The iate Dr. C. D. Kearl, a highly
qualified Cornell economist, within the last year
wrote, "The New York food production industry has
troubles. Even some of those in the midst of it do
not realize how serious the problems are. They roust
be met soon if some fruit men are to see their
businesses survive."
Now, plenty of evidence of tribulation
economically of fruit growers can be adduced if there
-------
«
2
s
4
B
6
7
8
8
10
St
32
13
U
ss
IS
17
18
19
20
£1
82
2S
24
25
77
is any need or if you're not familiar with that phase
of the situation, and, if we've had to keep our
workers out a long period after an application — and
even two days would be a great detriment — tire would
increase our costs. If we had to put on this burden-
some clothing, we'd lose our men. We're in terrific
competition to hold, our people and I'd have people
leave to be school custodians, to be school bus
drivers, to be workers in paper mills and, if we made
the job any more uncomfortable or difficult, we just
couldn't hold these people at all.
If anything we do that makes us lose
good men and put on poorer increases our cost and,
if we increase the cost, we011 reduce the supply and
we have had plenty of examples lately of the dramatic
increases in prices that corae with reduced supply.
In general then, having abbreviated
what is in the manuscript, I would like to say thiss
to add regulations where there is no conclusive
demonstrated need is preposterous. No substantial
evidence of need in apple orchards has been brought
out in accounts I have read of OSHA or EPA hearings.
If need should be demonstrated for a
specific crop in a specific area, the regulations
should be restricted to that crop and area. There
-------
I
2
3
A
S
6
7
8
9
10
11
32
33
U
IS
IB
17
ie
19
20
2!
22
ZS
24
ZS
re
is no justification for penalizing apple growers of
the Northeast with new regulations, even if need
should be shown in some other crop or some other
region.
It would be difficult to find an in-
stance in which regulations have produced as fine a
record of safety as v?e have achieved frotn voluntary
cooperation based on the educational efforts of our
Colleges of Agriculture, the label warnings on
packages and this common sense action and coaching
by orchard owners and operators.
Any restrictions or rules of the sorts
considered would increase the cost of production,
force some growers out of business and thereby re-
duce supply.
Education by Colleges of Agriculture,
precautions printed on all pesticide containers, safe
practices and coaching by orchard owners and managers
have resulted in a remarkable record of safety. Let's
stick with the present practices which have written
such an amazing success story. Let's not retreat to
burdensome rules that would unfairly hamstring the
producer and raise the cost of food to the consumer
while raising the cost to the taxpayer by making him
support unneeded additions to the government payroll.
-------
I
a
3
4
S
(S
7
8
3
10
Si
12
13
M
15
IS
17
:8
¦id
20
21
22
£3
24
25
79
Mm, I would to, if I may, function
in a dual role, but at a later time of this testi-
mony from Mr. Green who has the largest orchard in
our area, which we would like to think is the capital
of the Macintosh area of the Northeast, and who was
prevented by an accident just yesterday of attending
these meetings.
MR. ALFORD: Dr. Burrell, if I may
interrupt you at this time — Mr. Beebe, we'll per-
mit one full hour for your group and Dr. Burrell has
used up 15 minutes of that. I will let you divide
the time between your various people as you see fit.
DR. BURRELLi I speak as a fruit
grower in addition to being a member and a represent-
ative of the New York - New England Apple Institute,
and 1 am astounded if I was able to condense that
into 14 minutes.
MR. ALFORDs You did a good job, Dr.
Burrell.
DR. BURRELL: Don't forget that you
have taken a whole day of our time to make us come
down here at the busiest time of the year.
MR. ALFORDs We appreciate that, but
don't leave the podium as yet, Dr. Burrell.
Are there any questions for Dr. Burrell
-------
I
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
SS
16
17
13
!9
20
21
23
23
24
25
80
from the Panel?
(No response.)
MR. ALFORDs Are there any questions
from the audience?
(Ho response.)
MR. ALFORD; You do have another
statement you wish to present, Dr. Burreli?
DR. BURRELL: I was requested by Hr„
Philip Green, an operator of some 800 acres of
orchard, to present a statement which perhaps after
a little interval I could abbreviate.
MR. ALFORD: We will give you that
opportunity later then.
DR. BURREIiL s Thank you very much. I
hope it will not be too late in the day because I do
need to get back home by night.
(The following is Exhibit 161:
-------
80
a
3
31
52
IS
14
15
SS
20
23
81
MS. ALFOFJD: Mr. Berry?
MR. BERRYs Mr. Alford, the next apple
grower from the other side of Lake Champlain that I
would like to call on would be Mr. Allan Jackson.
MR. ALFCRD; Mr. Jackson, do you have
a written statement?
MR. JACKSONj I have a written state-
ment, but it's going to be abbreviated because
several things have been covered.
MR. ALFORD: We will just allow you to
testify without a statement.
MR. JACKSON: I will give you the
abbreviated version. If you want it —
MR. ALFORD: That won't be necessary°
MR. JACKSON: My name is Allan Jackson.
I am a fruit grower with apple orchards in New York
and Vermont producing an average of 50,000 to 60,000
bushels a year and employing a staff of five full
time workers? at least two or three more such workers
will be needed as new blocks of trees now on the
ground come into bearing and begin to double our
production in the very near future.
In this capacity, I am a member of the
Board of Directors of the Shoreham Apple Producers
Cooperative. I am also a member of the Board of
-------
3
2
3
4
5
6
7
3
9
10
n
12
33
14
15
16
17
93
19
20
21
£2
23
2A
25
82
Directors of the New York - Hew England Apple Insti- j
tute. In addition to being in the business of raising
apples, my professional career has been that of a
reporter and a broadcast correspondent for a major
network.
In this capacity, I have been greatly
disturbed at the wide dissemination of misstatements
and enmities about the alleged dangers to farm workers
from pesticides.
One of the frequently cited claims —-
and it can't be dignified as a statistic — is that
the improper use of pesticides on today*s farms causes
800 deaths and 30,000 injuries a year.
Gentlemen, I submit that is simply not
so. I believe the testimony in the recent OSHA hear-
ings anaply demonstrated that. Let's be specific and
I will confine rayseflf to the Northeast Region with
which I am familiar. I do not know„ nor have I been
able to find anyone else who knows of a single fatality
resulting from the proper use of pesticides in all of
the Northeast.
There have been, I understand, a few
— one or two isolated cases of deliberate misuse of
pesticides to commit Buicide. This is unfortunate,
but such cases would not have been prevented by a
-------
1
2
3
4
S
«
1
8
9
10
11
12
IS
14
IS
S8
17
18
19
20
31
22
23
24
25
83
whole book of new regulations and restrictions;
neither can they be blamed on the chemical manufac-
turer or the farmer or whoever uses the product to j
5
ensure the production of quality food. j
Incidentally, I believe that many of j
the claims of pesticide dangers originated with j
spokesman for workers who come in at the end of
the season to harvest the crops. The fact is that
in apple harvesting, certainly, the harvest workers
do not even arrive at the orchard until after the
last chemical application has been applied in ac-
cordance with the present standards set by the USDA
to ensure that all traces of such chemicals will
have disintegrated long before the produce is ready
for consumption.
Thus in the case of apples, there is
no possibility of pickers being endangered by pesti-
cides that were applied before they got there. If
not the picker, then what about the danger to the
full time worker, especially the man who mixes and
applies chemicals? This has been covered by some
previous speakers.
For the most part, this application is
done by the farmer himself or perhaps his son. No
one has become ill as a result, and common sense
-------
s
2
3
4
5
S
7
6
9
10
ti
12
S3
14
?5
15
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
84 I
makes it plain that no farmer would knowingly endanger 1
himself, his family or his workers.
On the contrary, by the evidence
available, he follows very carefully the directions
and regulations involved with each chemical. Many
fruit growers and their families live in the center
of their orchard plantings,. In our orchard in Crown
Point, New York in Essex County, the foreman, his
wife and four children live in a house that is 50
feet from the edge of one block of trees, about a
hundred feet from the edge of another. They have
lived there for about ten years and all are quite
healthy.
Some of the proposed reentry regula-
tions would seam to suggest that this family should
be evacuated from its tome every time a spray is
applied to the orchard, but as experience has shown, \
that is not at all necessary and neither is the pro-
posed reentry regulation.
Incidentally, my own home in Shorehara,
Vermont is 30 feet from the edge of one block of
trees and bordered by another block of trees in the
rear. These trees are sprayed both by air and ground
-------
8
2
S
4-
S
8
1
8
&
10
11
92
13
3/?,
*5
IS
17
i@
ss
20
21
m
2S
£4
285
85
equipment, and we continue to be pretty healthy. I
am in the apple business as a business and have been
for 14 years and as a way of life. I do not profess
to be an expert on chemicals or their application.
I hire a professional manager who is knowledgeable
in that area and he and I rely on the investigation
and recommendations made by the USDA's agricultural
research technician, the Extension Service and State
specialists and with the chemical companies and
their representatives who are fully cooperative with
the DSDA in determining and disseminating proper
safety standards.
Others have already covered the
studies that have been made and the dangers of the
use of organophosphatees, so I will not go into that?
however, these studies have shown that the hazards
of handling organophosphate insecticides are not
great if the recommended handling procedures are
followed.
Parenthetically, I would suggest that
continued good health of the fruit growers and the
absence of any evidence of injury is proof indeed
that recommended handling procedures are being
followed.
I leave it to those who are more
-------
I
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
SO
r*
12
13
34
m
K
\7
13
*8
20
23
2.2
£3
Z%
25
86
technically qualified to supply you with the techni-
cal and scientific details of our position. For
myself, I would only emphasize that the experts on
pesticides at our agricultural institutions at the
State and Federal level are quite well informed on
the subject, especially in the areas they represent,
and more importantly they do a very good job of
keeping the farmer well informed and advised.
There may be some isolated cases of
farmers who don't listen to such advice. That it
seems to me can best be corrected by the State re-
presentatives involved, the chemical people, the
agroecologists and the news media. It will not be
achieved any better by the imposition on all farmers
of a burdensome and costly set of additional Federal
regulations which would be as difficult to enforce as
to apply.
Such additional regulations are not
needed. If, as the critics claim there are so many
people being killed and injured by pesticides every
year, where are they? I don't know of any.
Thank you.
MR. ALFORD: Thank you, Mr. Jackson.
Any questions for Mr. Jackson frcm
the Panel?
-------
s
2
S
4
s
6
7
8
3
10
11
12
13
14
35
16
17
IB
i©
20
2?
22
23
24
25
(No response.)
MR. ALFORD: Any questions from the
audience?
(No response.)
MR* ALFORD; Mr. Jackson, in your
practices, what operations other than harvesting do
you carry out that does actually require extensive
contact with the treated foliage?
MR. JACKSON: Well, pruning actually
is the only time you come in contact.
MR. ALFORDs What about hand trimming?
MR. JACKSON s As little as possible.
We use chemicals for thinning. In the case of early
Macs, we have done some early hand thinning and I
think as all other growers agree, we're not going to
do it anymore. It's not worthwhile.
MR. ALFORD: Is your pruning done at
a time of the year immediately following or shortly
following pesticide treatment?
MR. JACKSONi Shortly following, and
I would say within a day or two. During the summer-
time when most of your sprays are being put on, we
do what is called sucker pruning, not major stuff,
because you'd be cutting out the fruit. It is
necessary for the workers to go back in the orchard
-------
1
2
S
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
U
16
So
17
18
59
20
21
22
23
£4
25
88
within a day or two after a spray is put on. We are
not as fortunate as the grape growers over there who
puts three sprays a year on. We have to put 10, 12
and depending on the rainy seasons, and this year was
a very rainy season for spraying, we put on a good
deal more, so that if we are forced to delay going
back into the orchard for two, three, four or five
days after each spray, we might never get back in.
MR. ALFORDt Would the man doing the
pruning be exposed to treated foliage to the extent
that a person harvesting the crop would be?
MR. JACKSON; 2 don't quite follow
your question.
MR. ALPORD; Would he get as much ex-
posure to the treated foliage from the pruning
operation as he would from harvesting apples?
MR. JACKSON: I don't know if he would
get more or less. He would come in contact with it,
yes, sir.
MR. MtFORBs Okay.
MR. JACKSONs Excuse me, I would add
one additional fact here. Dr. Burrell pointed out
the fact that we're doing most of our spray appli-
cation by air now. Most of it is being done by
extremely dilute concentrations of liquid, about two
-------
!
2
3
4
8
S
7
9
8
10
It
!2
13
14
?B
fS
17
iS
as
22
23
2<3
23
89
gallons of mixture per acre* so you must understand
that this is going to dry very rapidly and there is
not wetness therefore.
MR. ALFORD: Any questions from the
audience?
(No response.)
MR. MiFORD: We'll take a short recess.
(Whereupon, short recess was taken
at 11:45 o'clock a.m. and reconvened at 11:55 o'clock
a.m.)
MR. ALFORDi We'll resume now.
Mr. Berry, you may introduce your
next witness.
MR. BERRY: Thank you, Mr. Alford.
The next witness will be Mr. John Hotaling.
MR. ALFORD: Mr. Hotaling, your state-
ment will be identified as Exhibit No. 162.
MR. HOTALING: I am John D. Hotaling,
a fruit grower from Hudson, New York located 100
miles north of New York City in the Hudson Valley
fruit belt. I am a graduate of Cornell University
College of Agriculture with a Bachelor of Science
degree. I have been a fruit grower all of my life,
having my own operation for the past 24 years.
I operate 100 full acres of fruit,
-------
s
2
3
4
S
6
7
8
S
10
11
12
S3
14
16
16
17
18
18
20
Zl
22
2S
24
25
90
raising mostly apples, but also pears, peaches,
cherries, plums, apricots and nectarines, plus a full
line of vegetables including sweet corn, tomatoes,
peppers, squash, melons, cucumbers and pumpkins
among others.
My son and I are the only full time
employees; however, we do employ five high school
boys part-time and five apple pickers during the fall.
I am representing both myself and other apple growers
of the Hudson Valley as president of the Hudson Valley
Research Laboratory Co-op, Inc.
First let me say — I won't be quite
as polite as Dr. Burrell — that if you gentlemen
from both OSHA and EPA were really in terested in
grower opinions and input, you would not have sched-
uled hearings in August and October which span the
height of our fruit and vegetable harvesting season.
I can only draw one conclusion, to
whit, you really don't give a damn about our industry
or the effects of your proposed regulations on it.
One further comment, it is very hard
to comment on a proposal which you have not widely
disseminated. I have finally got a copy of your pro-
posed regulations on October 10th. Until that time,
I used Dr. Dewey's version. In view of your failure
-------
£
3
5
3
3
7
9
9
10
13
*2
13
M
22
37
IB
19
£0
2!
22
£4
23
91
to .publicize your regulations and the woeful timing
of hearings to make it practically impossible for
growers to attend, I suggest to you that a new hear-
ing date be set for some time early this winter so
that growers can truly have time to contribute their
ideas to your thinking. You may be surprised to find
that we are practical and very efficient businessmen.
On our farmr we have used phosphate
materials since they were introduced which was nany,
many years ago. Among materials we have used over
the years are TEPP, systox, parathion, mslathion,
guthion, aolone and phosphamidon. We ordinarily
spray apples with phosphate materials about eigl.t
times a year and poaches about six times.
I personally dp most of the spraying
with help from my son. I do not use a respirator
at any time during spraying operations. The dis-
comfort of rearing,a respirator and ineidentally
we have tried all kinds — far outweighs the risk
involved. In fact, it has been our experience on z.
warm# muggy day when we're s treating, that a respir-
ator is a definite hazard.
As you gent.ler.iQii can plainly see.- I
am a rather healthy specimen even though lacking a
little hair and being a bit heavy*neither of v>'iich
-------
921
by any stretch of the imagination can be blamed on
phosphate insecticide poisoning.
My son is equally healthy. I do not
mean to imply here that we treat organophosphates or
any materials carelessly. We do respect them? va are
careful. We know from personal experience that we
can handle these materials without harm to ourselves
or our help by using coircnon sense. Obviously I don'¦ t
stand downwind when adding materials to the spray
tank and obviously the nev? water solluble bags in
which we now get our guthion and other materials I
understand are coming out with it nest year, are
going to be significantly safer because no measuring
of the material is required.
All you do is count the correct number
of bags based on tank capacity and concentration ar.d
toss them in the tank. Obviously, I don't spray whs*)
it is so windy Icjcn getting spray drift on me. Obvi-
ously I &on:t look for a workman's compensation claiii;
by sending workers into an orchard which has just
been sprayed.
And even more obviously, I con't knew
any grov/er who does any of these thingc; . Mo remula-
tions or rules can replace good coupon sense v?hich
all our apple growers use in deciding when to reenter
-------
92 S
*!
s
7
30
57
'313
|
-12
an orchard. Our reentry period will vary depending
on the chemical used and rainfall after the appli-
cation.
We would customarily wait two days
before thinning operations were resumed in the case
of guthion, for instance.
Now, I would like to make one connient
that I don't have in my remarks, that I see no reason
to start at five and go down. X think we might,
rather start at sero and then if we need,- see if we
have a need for these reentry periods, go up. Our
experience as growers has been the opposite of what
you're proposing. We never had a case o:c poisoning -
not even any symptoms from any of our employees.
Incidentally? I would like to clear
up a possible misconception which was brought up at
the 0SH& hearings in Washington. It was Intimated
that our agricultural workers were* one, afraid to
report a possible case of poisoning andr two, prob-
ably ver&nf t bright enough to know if they did have
symptoms.
Most of our apple growers work at the
same time as our hired workers. In fact? in many
cc.se3( the farm faraily is the ...entire work force. v7e
are aware of symptoms and certainly would recognise
-------
9**
them in ourselves, in our help. Further, daring the
spraying arid thinning season for fruity our own farm
work force consists of sophomores and freshmen in
college and juniors and seniors in high school.
These men are intelligent- have access to phones and
cars and could and would report symptoms of poison-
ing if they occurred.
My migrant workers have their own pri-
vate telephone in their camp, not a pay phone, which
they are free to use at all times? they also have a
car. They consult local doctors for colds, sprains,
upset stomachs and so forth.
Protective clothing has not been worn,
and I'm sure that if it should be required, we i.;ould
not bo. able tc get men to work in the summer in such,
clothing. Ac; you may have guessed by now., I am op-
posed to the promulgation of any and all proposed
perr-.anent standards. If it is your sincere desire
to force a reduction in food in this country,, then
you are certainly on the right track. I just wonder
what you and your families are going to eat when you
have succeeded in forcing' farmers out of business
with asinine rules and regulations.
Gentlemen, you cannot legislate common
sense and this is the one ingredient that fruit
-------
95
growers have been using in their use of all pesti-
cides. I speak for our area in New York State. Our
local hospital, Columbia Memorial Hospital, of Hudson,
Mew York, shows not one case ever of insecticide poi-
soning, either as an admitted patient or through
emergency room treatment.
The Columbia County Hospital serves
growers raising about 1.5 million bushels of apples.
A statement by the hospital is attached.
In checking further, our Columbia
County Extension fruit agent, Ed Buckley, made the
following statement which is attached:
"As a county agent in charge of the
fruit program in Colurobia County„ New York for more
than 28 years, I' have not known of a case of sickness
or death from the use of any chemical, insecticide,
fungicide, herbicide,' et cetera suggested for use."
A statement is also attached from Dr.
C. G. Forsliey, Superintendent of Hudson Valley Labor-
atory, a fruit and vegetable field station for Cornell
University. He has this to says
"As pomologict for the Mevj York State
Agricultural Experimental Station's H-iason Valley
laboratory, I haves been closely associated with the
fruit industry in Eastern Kew York for 15 years.
-------
96
During that period, not one case of pesticide poison-
ing related to orchard application of pesticides has
come to my attention. It indicates to me that Eastern
New York fruit growers have consistently followed ap-
plication instructions„ have been reasonably careful,
and have exercised good judgment in the use of pes-
ticides."
In checking with both doctors and in-
surance agents, I can find no record of treatment or
claim for organophosphate or any other insecticide
poisoning.
Gentlemen, where is the problem that
you are so concerned about? It surely is net in our
apple growing area of Eastern New York.
Let's get dov?n to specifics:
1. If protective clothing had to be
wornt x doubt that'we would hire labor to do thinning
and suckering at any pries because of discoroforr. of
working in surfer heat in coveralls.
2. If labor could be hired, it fcrould
foe most inefficient,, probably doubling or tripling
the cost per hour.
3. I'm afraid to try and add up the
additional costs for protective clothing and facili-
ties, but I am sure that by the time we built a
-------
97
building for showers and changes, plus'the clothing,
that it could easily reach $1,000 per employee which
would be prohibitive.
4. Now, to probably the most onerous
and useless of all the requirements, sign posting and
record keeping. Most of us are our own bookkeepers.
MR. ALFORD: Mr. Hotaling, the Federal
Register notice of July 31st on whicii we are holding
this hearing had no provision for record keeping,
neither did it have any provision for shower facili-
ties, so if you would limit your statement to the
provisions of that particular notice,dealing with
priiuarily worker reentry, protective clothing, and
closely related areas —
MR. HO'T&LINGs Fine. Okay.
No. 5 if these regulations are >rado
lav;, you will see widespread civil disobedience to
them. They are impossible to legally live with.
You nay make an example out of a few of us with in-
spections and enforcement, but you simply cannot
inspect and fine every farmer every day of the year.
A retired New York State police ser-
geant, in talking to our Rotary Club said, "Unless
a law has the support of a wide majority of the
people,- it cannot be enforced and it is a poor lavr."
-------
98
Gentlemen/ as proposed, this is a poor
lax*.
6. I would expect the results of
these proposed standards to be threefold:
a. The small and middle sized grower
such as I an will either be forced out by the impos-
sibility of the finances or disgusted to the point of
quitting the fruit business by ridiculous demands for
useless paperwork*
b. Prices to consumers will rise due
to a shorter supply and the absolute necessity of
passing on the increased costs mandated by your pro-
posed standards.
c. There will be widespread disregard
of the proposed standards by agriculture.
I see 'nothing in the proposed resale--"
tioraS which would make working around insecticides
and jno.teri&ls in orchards any safer. You simply
can:t improve on .100 percent safety record V7hich is
what we have in our Hudson Valley.
I would like to eraphasise again ray
opposition to these proposed standards. They v/ould
not and could not make an already eKcellent sa.foty
record better? they would assuredly raise food
prices; they would drive the small farmer out of
-------
99
business/ and they would duplicate safety recommen-
dations being made by USDJk, Extension Service/
manufacturers and the Pure Food and Drug Adminis-
tration.
Gentlemen, we are responsible business-
men and farmers; don't saddle us v?ith useless, costly
and unneeded government regulations. There is no
present problemand with' our continued vigilance
there will be no "grave" danger problem in the future.
In conclusion, I would like to bring
home to you gentlemen a very basic fact. It see/v.s to
me that before you go too much further in these
hearings, that you have a very personal decisior. to
make. As a patriotic American farmer, I am. presently
feeding conservatively about five other families: be-
sides my own. 1 believe the ratio is 50 persons to
one farmer.
If these and other proposed EPA and
OSH& regulations are enforcedf I will still feet". my
own family and I will still probably be able to feet'
four other families. That leaves one family to
starve to death.
Gentlemen, your serious decision re-
duced to basic terms is, given ther.s proposed
regulations as laT.-.TP which one of you and your family
-------
100
are going to be the one who starves? I have never
seen farmers so mad and aroused at stupid and use-
less government interference in their business.
MR. ALFORD: Mr. Hofcaling —
MR. HOTALING: I have one more sen-
tence.
MR. ALFORD: I believe you are reach-
ing the point of getting argumentative to the extent
it would be useless in our record. If you have any
further statements to make relative to the proposed
standards, go ahead and make them. Otherv?ise»
please conclude.
MR. HOTALINGj I have one more se:a-
tence. I'm sorry.
MR. MiFOBI): Are there any questions
Of: Hotaling?
{Vio response.)
I£R. M.-FGRD: Any questions from the
audience?
DR. BURRELL; What is that last sen-
tence?
MR. AJjFOI®; Off the record.
(Discussion had off the record.)
MR. ALFORD: Go ahead and put the last
sentence in the record.
-------
101
MR. HQTALINGj If you gentlemen think
we have an oil crisist just wait until you force a
food crisis on this country.
(The following is Exhibit 1G2:
-------
102
MR. ALFORD: You may introduce your
next witness.
MR. BERRY: Thank you, Mr. Alford.
I'm halfway through my six people and
I have more than used up half of my time. I think
the' others may be shorter.
I shall call now Mr. Ed Crist.
MR. CRIST: I'll try to be short. I'm
Edward Crist, Walden, Hew York. I am a partner with
ray brother growing about 400 acres. I have been in
the apple growing business 26 y.aars. We employ about
ten year round people who basically work in the
orchard plus a great many seasonal apple, pic-kers and
packers. We have used, organophosphates extensively
for many years s including parathion, guthion, TEPP
phosphamidon, maxathion.
In all of the years y I have extensively
applied these materials. Of these 400 acres, I spray
approximately the home fans, which is approximately
140-150 acres entirely mygelf. All the years 1 have
extensively applied these materials and worked in the
orchards afterwards and have been active in area and
State grower organisations.
All these years I have yet to see or
even hear of any illness connected with reentry in
-------
103
any orchard after a pesticide of any sort has been
applied.
To suggest such sweeping controls on
reentry when even a. sickness from reentry applied to
an orchard or crop is unheard of in Mew York State
is very preposterous. When one considers the volume
of pesticides 'used in the U. S. agriculture over the
past 50 years, the record of safety concerning agri-
cultural pesticides is one we should all be ..proud of.
It is ci marvelous safety record. I'm
sure you are aware of D.r. Arned, former chairman of
the Subcommittee on Pesticides, who appointed his
subcommittee who was unable to find a single av.the-
ticated record of a fatality from a person entering
or worker entering a field treated with pesticide.
What better record of safety can we
possibly hope for?
Spring and summer orchard work i:: hard
v/ork and most often done in hot and warm weather« To
mandate workers must voar prescribed protective cloth-
ing would be about like telling an Eskimo they must
wear a bikini in the vjinter. The level of comfort
would probably be about the srone.
To cut down on the use of pestici.de
in the past few years, we have adopted a method of
-------
104
alternate row spraying, and then coming back a week
later" and doing the opposite alternate rows. This
enables us to do the same job with less pesticide
which is what we're all after.
However, this means that a particular
orchard is entered at two different times for each
regular spray, consequently it means there would be
very little time between sprays to do regular orchard
work. To go back to spraying every row at one time
would force us to go back to using more material per
acre. That is exactly what we are trying to avoid.
in going over our spray records from
last year, if the five-day reentry period yas ufced, we
would have been able to work in our home orchard
seven working days between May 10th and August 10th,
a period of three months. This is a period wher: a
good part of our yearly orchard work is done.
In other words, our ten yearly employees
plus sowe day labor are ail out in the orchard at
this time. If these people can only work seven days
in three months', what do we do with these people and
more important to the general public, what .in the
world happens to the cost of raising apples, and how
is the general public going to be able to eat?
I repeat,- agricultural pesticide usage
-------
105
in our area in the Northeast has been absolutely
marvelous safety record. What in the world are we
trying to prove in trying to improve on a perfect
record?
The controls presently in effect
have not only, been adequate, but they have been over-
whelmingly successful.
Incidentally/ as mentioned, I have
lived in the same house for 49 years and those 49
years have been surrounded by orchard and myself and
my family seem to be in pretty good health.
MR. ALFORDi Just a minute, Mr. Crist.
Any questions from the panel?
MR. BUHNJiM: When the workers go back
in to do the pruning,' what kind of clothes do they
usually wear?
MR. CRIST: Normal. Nothing particular.
Again, a day after we have., sprayed, we keep out. It's
just common practice. It's common sense. We do it.
After that., there Ti's no prescribed clothing at all.
MR. ALFORD; Uould that normally be
what, blu.e jeans and a shirt, shoes?
MR. CRIST; Yes, right.
MR. ALFORDs Would they normally wear
long sleeves?
-------
t
2
3
4
5
9
y
o
9
10
5?
*2
35
?«
¦35
18
\1
13
IS
30
si
22
33
,'_3
ar»
3.06
MR. CRIST: No. It gets pretty hot
out there. la most casesp no.
MR. BURI#1A; Would they wear a hat
or a cap?
MR. CRIST: I'd say half of the time.
They might or might not.
MR. ALFORD: any furthey questions
from the Panel?
DR. UPHOLT; Can I ask a question off
the record?
MR. M/FORD: Yes. Off the record,
(Discussion had off the record.)
Mil. ALFQEDs Back on -the .record.
Did the audience have any questions
for Mr. Crist?
(Wo response.}
MR. ALFORDs Thank you.
Mr. Berry?
MR. BERRY: The next witness I would
like to call is Melvin Kurd.
MR. HURDs Mr. chairman, I regret I
do not have a specified number of copies to give you.
MR. ALFORD: Do you intend to read
directly from your statement?
MR. HURDs Yes.
-------
107
MR. ALFORD: It won't be necessary to
turn it in. It will be in the record, in the tran~
script.
MR. RURDs My name is Melvin Kurd; I
have a Bachelor of Science degree from Cornell Uni-
versity with a major in Pomology. I have undergraduate
and graduate experience in research at Cornell. I
have been a scientist with 34 years of observation of
orchards since obtaining my degree, vie gro"/? approxi-
mately 30,000 bushels on 200 acres of orchards in
the Hudson valley.
At present,. I do not have any illness
or death due to exposure to the listed chemicals in
apple orchards. We do not take any precautions when
v;e first used organophosphates in respect to appli-
cation or xi?ork in our orchards.
Later,' the applicators used masks and
protective clothing. Workers did. not move out into
the field until it was dried- Still later, we asked
the thinners and pruners to leave the areas sprayed
with phosphates for the remainder of the day. TTe
kept the thinners and pruners in close contact out
of the areas for approximately two days in 1973.
Our operations, such as fertilizing,
mowing and irrigation continues as soon as foliage
-------
108
dries. We have never had any reports of symptoms of
organophosphorus poisoning. The actual pain is still
in the bottle.
We spray every other side of our trees
every five to ten days. The average seven days?
therefore, with the proposed regulations, we might
have but one half a- day a. week to perform our close
contact work as their employees normally ta'ke off on
Saturday noon. 1 challenge EPA for any substantial
evidence of illness' or death caused in New York State
orchards by improper application or reentry practices
-of Net* York growers.
Until' the government agencies employ
conclusive evidence of injury and deaths with a list
of pesticides, they are jousting at windmills. Shoul
we sleep under the stars because accidents and death's
occur in the home?
It seems — this is off the record ¦—
that we have a horse pushing the cart here. It seems
that we should have the evidence before we have so
many days cf reentry. I don't think we should start
at five days and work backwards. I think we should
start at zero, at the worst one day, and work to four
Thank you.
MR. &LF0RD• Thank you, Mr. Kurd.
-------
109
Any questions from the Panel?
(No response.)
MR. ALFORDs Any questions from the
audience?
(No response.)
MR. A1FORD; Thank you, sir.
Mr. Berry?
MR. BERRY: Next, Mr. Alford, will be
Oliver Cosman from Newburg„
MR. COSMAN; I don't have any prepared
statement. I just have a few notes here that I will
go by.
MR. ALFORD t You may testify without
the statement.
MR. COS?-U\N: My name is Oliver Cosnan.
I live in the Hudson Valley, Kewburg, New York. I
have been in the apple growing business and general
fruit growing business for nearly 40 years, originally
with my father who had been in the business all his
life and died at a ripe old age of 86, and at the
present time, -with two healthy sons who are a good
head taller than I am and outweigh me ana can out-
fi.cjht me.
We have always lived in the heme that
is completely surrounded with fruit trees of one
-------
110
variety or another. We have never taken any partic-
ular precautions in letting the children play when
they were small. They played right out in the
orchards and never suffered any ill effect from it.
We have used all the insecticides that were neces-
sary as they came along# started out with nicotine
sulfate way back in the dark ages, which is nothing
more than tobacco juice, and we went from that to
arsenate of lead, and then the DDT, BHC, TEPP I
think that's where all these government agenc.iei; got
their ideas of initials, from the insecticides
par&thion, raalatnion, guthion,. trithion, et'hion —
you name it, we have used it.
Why do we use so many of these differ-
ent insecticides? Because Mother Nature has a way
of protecting her own, and these little bugs th?:t
we're out there trying tc kill, they develop iirtmuni-
ties to these different pesticides. They build up an
iviffaunicy and it no longer kills them, so the chemical
companies, the Extension Service, USDA, have to find
other insecticides to go out there and use. We don't
uee all of these things at once.
This cost is prohibitive. We certainly
don't want to use any of them. 1'n our operationf our
spray costs alone on our material runs $30,000 to
-------
t,
2
3
4
s
u
7-
3
S
10
f 5
12
13
14
15
36
1?
38
13
SO
31
HZ
33
2S
73
ni
$40,000 plus the cost of application and the machinery
to put it on and the personnel to put it on with. Me
don't do tni3 because we like it*
There are no safe pesticides, only
safe handlers and applicators. We have always taken
precautions in the mixing. This is where I believe
your real danger is, in the nixing, because you are
coining in contact with more or less raw product at
that time.
Our powders are the most hazardous
because of the flying dust, but we have never used
respirators,. We stay on the leeward side when we7re
dumping into the tank.
With liquidsj we are making sure that
we ddnet get any splash. There's always plenty of
water there because yourre filling your tank with
watero If you get any of the material on you., you
wash it off immediately.
In the Northeast New York State, we
are not an area of big corporate farms.. It's mostly
the snaller farm family operated farms with one or
two men. My two sons, and we have'one steady man;
does all the spraying and I fill in at the present
time. You will see this and this brother,- so-and-so's
son, or in my case, Icra lucky* I have two of them to
-------
11.2
help rae out. We are certainly not going out there
and use poisons haphazardly that are going to make
ourselves sick 02: anyone else because that's just
human nature; you look out for your own. I have
never heard of anyone in our area or in New York State
for that matter, that has ever become ill permanently
or suffered any permanent .injury from the use of
insecticides.
You hear a lot of stories, a lot of
theoriesa lot of fantasies. If you'll bear with rae
a minute, back in 1945 or 1946 when DDT first c.rme cn
the market., because trie colin moth ate right through
aresenic of lead, they thrived on it, so we had to
find something else. A local golf course was using
DDT to kill Japanese'beetles r. and the greenskeepsr
picked up a dead robin and said to the club president,,
"Look here what the DDT is doing to the birds. It's
killing off the birds," so they gave the bird to thjs
clubhouse cat and in three or four days the cat dis-
appeared. "It's going to kill off all our aninia.l
lifer:i and then some well thinking woman comas cut
with a book, "The Silent Spring*; you ought to live
in rr-y house surrounded by trees in the silent spring.
They wake you up at the crack of dawn.
If you think the birds are suffering froin the
-------
113
pesticides that are being used today, calk to any
cherry grower. They have hundreds of thousands of
losses. It's become almost impossible to grow a
few cherry trees any longer. You have to have acres
of them because the birds riddle them.
I think that the farmer himself is the
best judge of safety on the use of insecticides. lie
is in constant contact with it. He sees what's going
on and he is a better judge than someone sitting be-
hind a desk using a slide rule. I think a lot of our
regulations today come from slide rules. I think t:c>
would be better off if they had never been invented.
Our Extension Service men — we havs*
one here who is in retirement now from Columbia
County-—¦ he has been in it a good many years, tfa
have another one from Ulster and Orange County who is
just starting out. These wen come in coristant con tec
with sprayed trees because they're not only looking
at their own operations, as we do, but they are takin
care of a county or in some instances two counties or
three counties. They are in everybody's orchards,
checking for insect injury and what not.
They are in'more contact, and I think
they're pretty healthy fellows, too.
This reentry, if we are to keep our
-------
114
men out of the fields for four and five days, it
would mean that, we would have to double or triple
our work force, providing we could find that many
men. It's very hard to get people to do farm work
because farm work is hard work, let's face it? it's
not as easy as pushing a broom around in a school or
in a garage or being in a union where you've got some-
body fighting for higher wages for you, and those
kinds of things.
Farm work is hard and we compete with
all types of industry. Even if we can pay the same
wages, people are not going to work hard for the sar-e
money they can work easy for, but if we are to kaep
oar men out in the fields,; we would have to have so
many more men to do the same jobs that it is goi,;g
to raise our cost of production two or three times
what it is now. Where does that go? It goes ;;i;;ht
to the consumer.
Everyone is concerned about food
prices rising. That is one way to wake thezn rise
very rapidly, to make us keep our help out of the
fields.
Maybe you say , "Why do we have to put
men in the fields during the spray season?" It is a
whole lot easier to get someone to get out there and
-------
i
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
M
1?
19
30
20
£3
22
S3
2-5
25
115
do your trimming in the surnm-artime when the working
conditions are decent than it is to get them out
there in zero weather in the wintertime when the snow
is up to your knees. That is why we have to do a lot
of this work in the sunanertime during the spray
season.
As far as your harvest labor, they
come in in most instances up to somewhere around 30
days after your last insecticide is applied to the
trees. Certainly you will run into people who will
have allergies to dust; you have allergies to pollen
and those fellows may come up with rashes. They may
come .up with chest congestion, even from allergy.
Allergy is a big thing today, but that is not insec-
ticide troubles? thai*, is something that nature pnt
there.
Vie had this big scare on the mercury
in fish. What about the samples of fish that they
took frcsn one of the museums in New York, a hundred
some years old, and they found as much mercury in
that sample of fish as they did in fish that were
taken out of the waters then. Mercury must have
been the?re, but nobody knew about it.
In conclusion, 1 would like to say
that most farmers.in the apple business and in the
-------
116
fruit business in the East today are out there in the
fields themselves. They are not sitting behind a desk
and sending workmen out in the fields doing jobs that
they are not doing themselves, and they are certainly
not going to use chemicals that are going to put them,
their own selves and their families or their workers,
in their gi-aves.
MR. ALFORD: Thank you, Mr. Cosman.
Would you remain at the podium a minute?
Dees the Panel have any questions for
fe. Cosman? Dr. Upholt?
DR. UPHOLT: You indicated the need
for doubling and tripling your work force if you had
a. four-- or five-day reentry period. For what type of
work was this? This was the spraying?
MR. COS^&N; This would be your summer
pruning.
DR. UPHOLT: Sucker.ing?
M3R. CGSjiAN; Suckeriziqt hand thinni'i.?
there's vary little hand thinning done anymore?
it's ittostly all c'one by chemicals. For the main
thingf you can't get the labor to do it. It's too
late in the season anyway to do it end you can't get
the labor to do it and it would be too expensive if
you could get it. It's mostly your summer pruning
-------
117
and mowing where you do come into some contact with
the trees in the mowing, but your suckering and prun-
ing is where you really come in contact with the trees.
Any men that we have out there, as Mr. Crist said,
they wear no different clothing. If they're out
there on a hot day, they're liable to strip right
down to their waist.
MR. ALFORD; Any further questions
from the Panel?
(No response.)
MR. ALFORD: Any questions from *; he
audience?
(No response.)
Mil. ALFORD; Thank you, Mr. Cosnu n.
Dees that conclude your list of people?
MR. BERRY: I have other people here
but I haven't got the muster. Mr. A.1. fordf so if you
wish to have them speak, I have just one final state-
ment .
I think that it might well be said
here that these six people and others have been repre-
sentative. I think the repetition makes a point. If
it is repetitiousf that comes out of the individual
experience and use experience and it is not echc-incj
a false statement. Thank you.
-------
118
MR. ALFORD: Thank you.
Certainly, any of the additional peo-
ple that you have here, Mr. Berry, can testify
individually if they will fill out one of the cards
and request to do bo.
Off the record.
(Discussion had off the record.)
MR. ALFORD: Back on the record.
Is there anyone present who wishes to
make a very short statement in order to get away by
noon who must, get away for the afternoon?
The gentleman in the back. Woulc you
come to the podium, please?
MR. GILL: I assume it's short. My
name is Jack A. Gill and I am presently president or.
the New York State Vegetable Growers Association
MR. ALFQP.D: Mr, Gill, your statement
will ba identified as Exhibit 163. We did call :,"or
you earlier. We will take your testimony,
MR. GILL: Sorry I was late. It is on
behalf of the t?ew York State Vegetable Growers that
I submit this brief statement.
My farming background is as follows —
born in Little Week, Long Island on a small vegetable
farm, spent my early years in Marnmouth County, New
-------
119
Jersey, on a combination vegetable and potato farm,
and the past 35 or more years in the vicinity of
Kingston, New York»
X presently operate about 1,200 acres
growing 800 or 900 acres of sweet corn and 200 to 300
of grain corn.
When I speak of agricultural problems,
I will perhaps have my own farm in mind, but I feel
my problems are representative of all the farms in
New York State. Agriculture, although greatly varied
in our State, shares many of the same difficulties,
especially when it comes to the application of pes-
ticides.
The area in which I live is heavily
involved in growing sweet corn for fresh market. We
have sprayed for the' corn borer and earworm Cor the
past 20 years and to the best of my knowledge there
has never been any injury from the use of poison in
this material.
Ju.sfc south of Kingston is a very large
apple producing area, and I do not recall ever hearing
of any injury from pesticides.
agriculture in the present day is be-
coming more and more sophisticated less roc;i fnr
error. The EPA regulations as proposed would be
-------
120
impossible to live with. In our own farm operation,
once we start to harvest, there is little time to
stop or wait or relax a day. We work as hard and as
fast as we can and still end up selling too much corn
that is overripe and not really fit to eat. To
abandon the corn that becomes overripe would be an
economic disaster.
Trying as hard as we can, we lost al-
most ten percent of our crop to wet weather, bird
damage or lack of labor. To have to stop and wait
for reentry to fields due to EPA rules is unthinkable.
In my estimation, there are already too many ruias,
regiila'ting agriculture, :on.ade by people who are either
idealists or who have no practical experience in the
field.
1 personally think agriculture ir.r Ou.c
country is at the crossroads. ?'7e are producing at
near capacity, but it takes but very little to reduc--
procluction to below the country's needs. There are
the weather, strikes, lack of fertilizer or lack of
sufficient help. We are at the mercy of the consumer
and his desire for cheap food and the government:s
wishes to please the consumer, for it is he who con-
trols the votes.
In recent years, we have had laws
-------
121
passed making it almost impossible to operate labor
camps, which indirectly denies us labor. Our expenses
have skyrocketed and we have the consumers' resistance
to higher prices. With these drawbacks already with
us, I sincerely do not believe we need stringent EPA
rules on pesticides to further hamper us.
I respectfully submit this as president
of the New York State Vegetable Growers.
MR. M.FORD: Thank you, Mr. Gill.
Any questions from the Panel for Mr.
Gill?
DR. IJPKOLT; Yes. I didn't quits un-
derstand what type of operation it is that you ere
involved with which require reentry within the first
two or three days or very shortly after?
MR. GILL; 1 operate a part that re-
ceives all the spraying, which is sweet corn. He
spray mostly by air, but I do have some ground spray-
ers and until just a month or so ago, there was a
cereal leaf beetle. In order to ship corn to I^'.'.o^ida,
you had to spray five days previous to harvest. Now
we are spraying with sevinr which I believe would not
involve any reentry problem, although I arc not
This year nowp sevin is not dcinc; the
job. It is a replacement for DDT, costing five times
-------
122
as much, and we had to switch to lanate. Now, lanate
I'zn not sure. I don't know the reentry days on
lanate, and. we had a problem this year. We were pick
ing and our spray men sprayed right over the top of
us, pickers and all, and I really didn't know x^hat to
do.
As I say, we can't stop. I think the
only thing that would stop us was if I fell dead in
the field; then we would stop. Maybe the help would
go on,- I don't know, but we cannot afford to step.
There is no room for stopping.
MR. AIjFORD: I think you've made your
point*
MR. GILL: We work until we see tliey:
going to quit on us, and fTs're always short of paople
and we stop and we don't push, it that far.
DR. UPHCLT; This harvesting is going
on during this period, then?
MR. GILL: We start harvesting July
25th or so and we don't stop until October 1st or
frost, whichever is first.
MR. ALFQKD: Any further questions
from the Panel?
(No response.)
MR. ALFORD: Any questions from the
-------
audience?
(No response.)
MR. ALFCUD: Thank you, Mr. Gill.
(The following is Exhibit 163:
-------
5
2
.3
4
r>
6
7
a
9
10
*i
u,
12
34
13
IS
}'
13
19
20
n
22
33
24
25
124
MR, ALFORDj It is now 12;30. We will
recess for lunch.
MR. CONCKLINj If 1 may, I'd like to
make a few comments before you break- for lunch. I do
have to leave before.
MR. ALFORD: We'll give up to five
ft
minutes if that will be adequate. Do you have your
written statement, sir?
MR. CONCKLIM: I have a written state-
ment , but I'm only going to paraphrase it.
MR. ALFORDs Your written statement
will be identified as Exhibit No. 164.
MR. C0NCX
-------
I
2
3
4
5
6
7
&
9
iO
n
i8
T3
S4
13
tu
17
^9
'iS
10
£1
32
S3
£$
25
125
myself and I am speaking in opposition to the pro-
posed EPA standards.
I would like to point out — and I am
going'to jump around here — that no ona, either your
people in OSHA, the Occupational Safety and Health
Administration, has proven a need for Pederal regu-
lation of pesticide handling, application and reentry
periods exist.
According to custom in this country,
contrary to present practices, you are innocent until
proven guilty, so I feel we're all out of line trying
to get things up the way they are. In fact,' I think
that one of the worst things,that we could do is say,
"Well, we should- start with a five-day period, e.nd
when' we find out that's safe, drop back to a four-
day periodf and when we find out that's safe, drop
down to a three-day period."
I think that's going backwards. We
have proved overwhelmingly or the part of our State
that there is a perfect safety record and given this
presumption and the fact chat you have not proved
that we have injured anybody or that the chemicals
are injuring anybody, that we should start with se.ro
days until we find that there is indeed injurriec; re-
sulting from our work.
-------
126
One of the key things that I wanted to
point out in ray testimony today — and 1 will read
this — it was pointed out to ma that the CSHA hear-
ings in Washington that perhaps the workers were
afraid to report any illnesses caused by pesticides
to their employers for fear of losing their jobs.
This isn't the reason for no statistics in our area.
The workers are given free physicals by doctors in e.
roobile health clinic sponsored by the State of Kew
York and the Columbia Council of Churches has a com-
mittee which hires a isan as migrant coordinator who
travels to ail the labor camps in the county to talk
with the workers.
His job is to listen to their co-rplaints
and get action on their problems. Either of tht.se
two actions could by themselves turn up any hidc".33),
cases of pesticide injury if there were any, but.
additionally, in Columbia County,- the County Hec.ltb
Department 3ends a visting nurse around periodically
to check up on the workers, so there is ample oppor-
tunity to collect any data if there were any, but there
just isn't any to collect.
Now3 I'll jump over some of the ex-
traneous cements I had and go down to some specifics.
Your proposed standards call for a
-------
2
3
4
5
e
7
S
9
10
tl
«a
f4
13
!G
?7
?o
V5
£0
2!
22
33
24
25
127
three-day reentry .interval for intimate contact with
highly toxic pesticides. As I have shown from our
own voluntary experience/ three days is excessive.
We have used many of these highly toxic materials and
36 hours has proven sufficient. Adding another 36
hours or more waiting period cannot improve on a
perfect record.
In fact, our record indicates that
there is no need for any compulsory reentry interval
and if our experience with highly toxic chemicals is
any indication# then there should 'be similar, pru-
dent reduction in the reentry intervals for your
other categories.
Assuming that you do establish the
reentry interval at three days and we find we must
enter a field or block prior to the expiration of the
waiting period, you say that we must monitor cholin-
esterase levels at frequent intervals? say hourly,
for the sake of being argumentative, and I don't mean
to be argumentative. I arn merely presenting a hypo-
thetical case.
Who is going to pay the doctor or
nurse to come once an hour from the hospital in Hudsone
five miles to ray farm, and out into the field to make
this test? Mot me. You? J. doubt it. The voters
-------
128
will have to pay at the checkout counter. Remember;,
this wou+d have to be done once an hour for 24 to
36 hours every week for six months. Besides,/your
categories are based on acute oral toxicity. These
workers won't be eating the leaves. They'll be
brushing against them.
Perhaps we should be more concerned
with dermal toxicity instead of oral toxicity.
Then I took exception to the two other
of your general requirements, such as the fact that
you require that all people who might possibly be
exposed to spray drift should be forewarned and
equipped with proper protective equipment• I went
into a good mere detail on this, but I w~on5t read it
here except to say that xr.y farm is cut up by three
roads, one State Arterial and two Town highwayst civ-d
I can foresee,if ther£ whs some enforcer who came
around and said I had to be a good deal more carefulf
I vjo'dld have to stop the traffic and warn the motor-
ist of the potential hazards, issue them protective
equipment, force them to put it on until they passed
the danger £*rea, stop them again, collect the gear
and launder it for the Reset use, all on the chance
that a gust of wind might conie up while the sprayer
is making a turn at the row's end near the road.
-------
,129
MR- ALFORD: We can assure you, sir,
that is not what was intended.
MR. CONCKLIN: I know, but'this can
be,read into it.
MR. ALFORD: You may proceed with
your statement.
MR. CONCKLIN: Okay. Similarly, you
could take the other broad requirement, and I'll
quote here, areas likely to be contaminated by drift
must be vacated during spraying operations. Yoj
could say the same thing about the fruit growers,
and' I have several of my neighbors also who live right
in the orchardsr and I have to vacate their houses and
vacp.r.a some of my neighbors5 houses who might live
off of my orchard?
I think that is the extent of whc-.t I
waive to say, except my final paragraph, present .in-
formation indicates that no emergency exists. There-
is no cause, no justification, for imposing upor\ the
agricultural work force the onerous standards you
are proposing. If there is a need, you must prove
it first, then write realistic proposals to eliminate
the problem areas, but first and foremost, you should
establish clearly and unquestionably chat there is a
great danger.
-------
130
MR. ALFORD: Thank you, Mr. Concklin.
Any questions from the panel for Mr. Concklin?
(Mo response.)
MR. ALFORD: Any questions from the
audience?
(No response.)
MR. ALFORD: Thank you, sir.
(The following is Exhibit 164:
-------
131
MR. ALS'ORD: All right. We will break
for the lunch period now and return at 12:45.
(Whereupon, luncheon recess was taken
at 12:40 o'clock p.m. and reconvened at 1:45 o'clock
p.m.)
-------
132
&PTEKHOON SESSION
MR. ALPORD; We're back on. the record.
Ruth K. Skou. Is Mrs. Skou present?
MSS. SKOUs Yes. I am Mrs. Ruth K*
Skou. I am part owner with my husbandf Ridgeview
Orchard, Shorehasnr Vermont. This is a small family
operation and our son helps us to run the orchard.
I earned my degree in Chemistry at
St. Lawrence University in 1939 and I have been
mother and a housewife most of that time# but I have
always been interested in chemistry.
Now that I am up at the orchard there
in Shorehair., I do take active part and an active in-
terest in the chemicals that are used; and I doi^'t
want to take up a lot of time telling you what v;e dcF
but if I could in any way answer questions -— £ have
measured out and dealt with the pesticides in their
most concentrated form and r if I can answer any
questions, I would be glad to say so; and I thirk
that's the quickest way to dc this.
I can say this, that as a person who
has had training in chemistry, I have used no other
precautions other than what a chemist would normally
use, particularly a student in a chemistry laboratory
In-other words, I haven't worn any special clothing.
-------
133
My old clothes are what I wear. I haven't gone to
any great precautions, lacking a hood which a chemist,
uses when he's dealing with toxic chemicals. That is
an enclosure where you have an updraft so that you
don't inhale your chemicals.
I simply chose the best ventilated
area I could find and when I had to transfer chemicals
from one bag to another, I simply took a plastic bag
that you might use to put garbage or anything in,
put it over the package and transferred it so there
wouldn't be any dust raised.
If we had to put chemicals into the
sprayer, if it were a highly toxic chemical and I
wante d to protect my husband and son, I would use a
pail of water and try to get that chemical as wet as
possible when it was dumped into the sprayer, sc
there would be no kickback, no powder that they would
inhale. I have always cautioned my son and husband
or anybody that worked with these pesticides to be
very careful about washing.
I don't use gloves. Very often, I
wore short-sleeved blouses. If 7. did come in contact
with any of the pesticides, I washed immediately. If
any chemicals are spilled, I cleaned them up immedi-
ately. I used water mainly to do any cleanup and I
-------
133 I
2.
6
1
9
9
50
i J
i
-) A i
l{-> \
!4 f
-1
jj :!
"> !;
II
1;
!V |
it
I
I!
*3 r U
I
28 i
134
participated in the tests of the' L'achant report that
you used, I am one of the 77 people whose blood
samples were taken, and there was no evidence of
lowering of the cholinesterase. I can say that I
never felt any ill effects in my handling of these
chemicals.
So if there are any questions you want
to ask, that's about all I have to say.
MR. ALFORDs Thank you, Mrs. Skou.
You are from Shoreiiaim, Vermont?
MRS. SKOUs Yes.
MR. ALFORD: Where is that located in
relation to the apple growing area of blew York?
MRS. SKOUs It3 s in the Champlain
Valley. The easiest way to locate it is it is c.iirsoat
directly opposite from Ticonderoga in New York f'tate.
We are on the other side of Lake Champlain.
MR. ALFORD; Of course, my reason for
asking, are the growing conditions or the practices
followed there similar to what they are in New York
State?
MRS. SKOUo I would think so. In the
Champlain Valley, they, would be the same. I can't
speak for the Hudson Valley. I think most orchards
that I see use all, so far as pruning and working in
i
-------
135
the orchards, and 1 do go into the orchards. I
haven't been terribly concerned about the time lapse.
It depends on what you're doing. If I had to handle
or come in contact with foliage, I wouldn't want to
do it immediately after the area was sprayed. I
would wait perhaps a day. If I were just walking
through or something that had to be done where I
wasn't coming in contact, I might just wait until
the dust settled a little bit and then go in. ~
wouldn't be handling the material.
I might say.that you have to live with
an orchard or you have to live with a crop, and in my
opinion, timing is very, very important and 1 thinlc
that is probably why many of the growers are object-
ing to time limits for reentry because these ch=irtical
have to be applied and they have to be put in at a
certain time and many of the other operations that
must go on in an orchard have to be done simultane-
ously, and it is very hard to try to coordinate the
two.
There was a man who spoke about the
chemicals coming already packaged in a package that
is water soluble and I think this would be a very,
very fine thing because, to me, the greatest dagger
is to the person who is mixing the spray, not so much
-------
136
to the picker or the worker, but to the people who
are doing the spraying or actually mixing these
chemicals in a sprayer, and I think that thess?. newer
packages, when they are available, will eliminate a
lot of the hazards.
I just hope that some more of our
technological help will be forthcoming to cut down
on some of the other hazards have.
MR. ALPORDj Thank you. The tasks
that you have to perform as far as pruning is con-
cerned or entering the field shortly after treatment
v?ould be very similar to what has been discussed here
this morning?
MRS. SKOU: Yes. I can't climb, I
don't go way up in the trees, but I can do suckering
and thatp and work around under the trees. I very
often feed the trees, fertilize them and that. I
might go in after some chemicals have been,put,: but
I don°t climb in the trees as pickers would, but
usually in the apple industry, the pickers are in so
far behind the spraying I don't feel there is any
danger there.
MP.. AL.FGRD; Does the Panel have any
questions for Mrs. Sfcou?
(Mo response.)
-------
137
MR. ALFOSDj Any questions from the
audience?
{No response.)
MR, ALFORD: Thank you? Mrs. Skou.
Mr. John L. Brookins?
Mr. Brookins, do, you have a written
statement with you?
MR. BROOKINS: I have a written state-
ment to present, sir.
MR. ALFORD; Your statement, if you
will furnish it to the reporter, will be identified
as Exhibit No. 165.
MR. BROOKINS: I am John L. Brook .Ins,
president of the New York State Flower Industries*
Incorporated. I am also president of Jerry Brookins,
Incorporated, our family owned and operated comir.i-jrcial
cut flowers and potted plant growing business at
Orchard Park, New York.
My association with the family business
is lifelong, with active full time participation in
management of the business for over 30 years. 1 have
served as a director of the New York State Flower
Industries, Incorporated since 1967, including two
years as vice president and one year as president.
My cordments are made for the Board of
-------
137 !
5
6
7
e
9
Vj
t?
V;
IS
¦ft
J7
SO |i
I
r* ••
ti
. ft
^ J!
lib
138
Directors of New York State Flower Industries, Incor-
porated on behalf of our active njembers, presently
numbering 373.
As active producers in greenhouse
agriculture, we recognize the need for reasonable
and effective precautions for the use of pesticides.
We have concern for personal safety and safety of our
families, employees and the public. We recognize
that EPA, through these hearings, can make a meaning-
ful contribution to this safety.
We wish to call to your attention the
unique characteristics of greenhouse agriculture,
specifically flower crop production as compared to
agricultural production of field crops out of doors.
Greenhouse agriculture is intensive,
takes place in enclosed structures, with an arti-
ficially maintained environment as opposed to field
production, which is subject to countless unpredict-
able weather factors. The greenhouse operator must
provide on a regular basis all the environments3.
needs of the crops, water,- fertilizer, correct tem-
perature, even in some cases regulating the lenctlr
of the day.
These needs are critical and must be
provided without delay on a continuing basis for
-------
,139
successful greenhouse crop production. It is not un-
usual to find all stages of growth of a single crop
in a given greenhouse and many crops are scheduled
to provide a steady supply of the finished product
throughout the year.
Also, it is not unusual to find two or
more different crops growing in the same greenhouse.
Harvesting of crops and some other operations are en-
tirely manual and must take place on a regular basis,
usually daily and with some crops, such as roses,
twice daily.
Any regulation, which would unneces-
sarily prevent harvesting on time would result in
serious economic 3.03S.
There are other cultural practices,
such as planting, potting, pinching and disbudding
which also must be done on a regular basis. In the
greenhouse situation as described above, these tasks
must be performed several times a week in the same
greenhouse. The frequency differs from crop to crop.
Because of the unique situation pre-
sent in greenhouse agriculture, specifically flower
crop production, we recommend that you give serious
consideration to the following:
1. That the safety record of greenhouse
-------
140
use of pesticides according to presently recommended
and accepted practices be evaluated to determine if
there is need for additional regulations.
2. That each crop and recommended
pesticide be considered separately and that the
hazard involved be evaluated prior to establishing
reentry rules.
3. That, in determining the need for
reentry regulation, dermal toxicity and actual field
hazard be used as criteria, rather than basing regu-
lations primarily on label classification.
We feel that if these recommendations
be followed, viable regulations based on concrete
facts will be established, v/hich will accomplish the
primary goals of effective safety within the economic
framework of the greenhouse agricultural business.
MS. ALFORDs Thank you, Mr. Brookins.
Any questions from the Panel?
(No response.)
MR. ALFORD: Any questions from the
audience for Hr. Brookins?
(No response.)
MR„ ALFORDs Thank you, sir.
(The following is Exhibit 165:
-------
140 t
2
3
4
b
6
7
3
9
50
11
?2
?3
t.'i
:s H
"I
'Hi
i!
*-5 i'i
{!
30 I?
a J
n
n \
t
\
?A j
25
143.
MR. &LFORD: at this time, wa will ask
Dr. Arthur Burrell to present his statement on behalf
of one of his associates.
Do you have the written statement you
wish to submit. Dr. Burrell?
DR. BURRELL: I do have the written
statement of Mr. Philip Greene which I will leave.
MR. ALFOSDs This will be identified
as Exhibit 166.
DR, BURRELLj Very good. I want to
especially express ihv appreciation for the unique
privilege of a second appearance here which came about
by the fact that Phil Greene had a little accident
last night, as a result of which he can't walk today.
I got a: phone call last night and another one at
daybreak this morning, and his wife handed me the
testimony-at her front door at 6;45.
I became familiar with it after I cam?
down here.
The Greenes have a family orchard oper-
ation at Peru consisting of .about 600 acres. There
is a father and three sons„ the father and two tons
being at the Don G. Orchards in Peru. They state
that they represent 138 years of combined exposure
to the apple business. I will abbreviate his ccmroents
-------
l
2
3
4
5
6'
7
E
9
W
15
32
13
J*
*IO
3/
is
j *
i ^
#
24
S3
1^42
since in the main they are harmon.ius with what other
fruit growers have stated here, feeling that there
are not reasons that are adequate to justify new re-
entry levels, and comment just on a few of the things
that are a little more specific and a little different.
He gives an outline as to why they Use
several of the organophosphorus sprays like systox,
guthion, malathion, and with reference to reentries,
he says, "We as farmers can no longer use lower edu-
cation type of labor. Most of our work is done with
tractors or more specialized expensive equipment. We
must have operators who can operate this equipment
safely and efficiently on separated farms," and their
farias do cover quits a number of miles , "without im-
mediate supervision, utilizing a high degree of corns on
sense as their guide."
Anyone of you who have attempted to
employ this type of person for outdoor work under' less
than ideal, often muddy conditions, knov; the competi-
tion is great and "labor cost is well above the minimum
industrial wage. Since all of our labor is used in
the orchards, it is absolutely prohibitive to keep
these men working elsewhere and equipment, still during
the reentry periods.
In our 138 years of combined experience,
-------
343
the Greene family has never experienced ill effects
suffered by our employees, which could be attributed
to the application or reentry exposure of these ma-
v
terials.
We have always returned to the orchard
the day following application to prune, which re-
quires climbing the treesc mulching around the trees
or operating machinery.
Three years ago, all our employees
were tested at regular intervals by the University
of Vermont for cholinesterase levels. In all cases,
these levels were at or below recognized norms. I
have attached the findings to this study»
Then later he cites the reference.
The critical timing of certain tasks is of absolute
importance to all phases of conunercial agriculture
and other than harvest labor, each job must be clone
by well trained and highly qualified personnel. Our
regular worker, unless able to work the day after
application, there would not be enough time, person-
nel and equipment to complete the following work.
Summer water sprout pruning necessary
to let light in for good color at harvest. Grass
mowing* Grass must be controlled to maintain proper
element levels in the soil and to provide worker
-------
safety at harvest time. Our Universities told us
that a sod ground cover is best for Macintosh apple
production. Mulching around the young trees, struc-
tural work on young trees, hand thinning of certain
pollinator varieties is absolutely essential.
Then he enumerates the safety precau-
tions that are currently in use which would pretty
well embody the recommendations which are contained
in the annual fruit tree production recommendation
which comes out from the College of Agriculture at
Cornell University.
By the way? two of these sons are
graduates of that college; the third son is a gradu-
ate of the University of Vermont, all in horticulture,
economics or agri-engineering. The effects of pro-
posed reentry and protective clothing requirements
on Don G Orchards and its employees.
He goes on to describe the great
handicap it would have in very hot weather and the
inability to hold help if> they made them wear pro-
tective clothing, and as in a hot season that we had'
this last year, the competition for our help, which
v;e do experience in our area, is high.
He goes on to say if.the reentry in-
tervals proposed were to go into effect, they would
-------
1
2
4
n
c
7
'a
9
iO
•J 5
?2
!3
14
f-3
t?
i7
?S
$3
¦;0
SJ
£2
£3
24
2Ii
145
have to decrease their local v;ork force, do most of
their spraying with aerial applicators and get custom
work done on a number of other items.
In summary, then, there is no evidence
of a need for proposed regulations at Den G Orchards
and he has earlier pointed out that they live within
the orchards and the members of the family lead the
various operations in the orchards, not just send men
out.
This imposition would create great
hardships and a high possibility of great economic
loss to a family that started from nothing and €0
years hence has built a respectable business in the
apple business.
Presently, wo labor under extremely
adverse and unpredictable v-reatiier conditions and are
further impeded by present welfare and unemployment
insurance alternatives. Three of our present hard
working employees, trained and valuable members of
society, vrould have to be laid off if we could re-
enter the orchard short of these proposed reentry
times.
Additional discomfort and a question
of job security would, for the first time., cause, my
remaining employees to possibly look elsewhere for
-------
employment.
Then he goes on to state the effec-
tiveness of the educational work that goes on and
urges that continue to be the case, and one thing
which is a little different from what I've seen or
heard in the previous testimony, he evidently has
submitted this manuscript to his six regular em-
ployees and has their signatures to a statement,
,:We, the undersigned, as employees of Don G Orchards
Inc. hav.s this date read and understand the written
testimony herein contained. Further, we fu.llv sub-
scribe to the contents ."
Then he has Robert Obertf Stanley
Crowningshield, Chester Patterson, Rocky A. Vfood,
Thomas A. Brand, George Barber.
I trust that I have given the essence
of his testimony, If not, the rest is containec. in
this manuscript and, than]: you again for the privi-
lege of giving it.
MR. MjFORD: Thank you, Dr. Burr ell.
You can assure each of these gentlemen that the ful."
statement will be a part of the record.
Are there any questions regarding
this testiraony for Dr. Burre.li?
MR. BEUSCH; This may not be, fair to
-------
J
2
3
4
5
6
7
6
9
SD
S3
iS
53
M
13
it
«7
tS
S3
?:0
§1
la •-
23
24
23
147
Dr. Burr el 1,. but could you comment a bit on the role
of the State of Vermont in the use of pesticides on
apple orchards? Does the State have any reentry times
possibly?
DR. EURRELL: Well, I do not live in
the State of Vermont. I live in the State of New
York.
MR. ALFOP.Ds Is Mr. Greene's orchard
located in Vermont?
DR. BURRELLs No. Mr. Greene's or-
chard is located on the New York side of Lake
Chsmplain, actually"on seven different farms, but
all on the New York side and I am sure Mrs. Skou could
say whether or not there are currently any reentry
limitations in the State of Vermont.
MR. ALFOKDs The question is really
not relevant to the testimony of Dr. Burreil? how-
ever, if Mrs. Skou wishes tc comment,, she inay dc so.
MRS. SKOCJ: I don't know of any re-
entry times in the State of varment. Howeverr we do
have vary strict — we classify the pesticides into
three different classifications, and I know we did
warehouse some chemicals a few years ago, and I went
up to i'iontpelier and took an examination just to
have those chemicals there in the warehouse, so they
-------
are very strict in Vermont in keeping track of the
chemicals that are used and getting people, the
vendors, the people who sell chemicals in the State
of Vermont, even to Raid and some of the other things
— these would come into the third classification,
but you do have to have a license.
MR. ALFOFDs Your reference to stay-
ing out for one day was based on yc-ur own knowledge
Of the chemistry of the product?
MRS. SKOU; Yes. What I said there
was just my own, what I have found, from doing work
around the orchard.
MR. ALFORD; V7e realise that.
MRS. SKOUt I never stayed any longer
than a day and I didn't suffer any ill effects.
MR. ALFORDThank you very roach,
Any further questions' from the panel?
DR. 3URRL-LL; Mr. Chairman, I won-
dering if I could insert one more very brief state-
ment 3: cut out of Kiy first presentation. There is
one place where 1 think maybe wa could do a little
better as fruit growers.
In our own case, va have a separate
building in which insecticides are stored and that
building is kept locked; it is of such construction
-------
1
2
3
4
5
3
7
8
9
10
\ 8
S2
J 3
H
?5
16
M
i©
IS
go
2S
S2
23
24
25
14 9
that it is relatively, though not completely, fire-
proof and it is so located that the chance of a fire
running to it is minimal. I think this is one fea-
ture of educational work which justifies a little
further stressing beyond what has been done although
it definitely is hot a new idea because occasionally
.firemen are subjected to fumes.
Nothing new, but I think it is some-
thing that may he an educational work we should all
do a little more of.
MR. ALFORDAny question from the
audience for Dr. Burrell?
DR. DEWEY: There was one comment,• Dr.
Burrell, and I am not sure whether it was in written
testimony or whether it was your paraphrasing of the
testimony that indicated that as a result of the
Vermont study, that hone of the Don G people surveyed
had anything but normal or below cholinescerase
levels, and I think he later concluded that there ras
no effect or no indication of effects but below a
lowered choline3terase level might be indicative of
a possible problem, and I think reference should be
made to the study i?hich has already been offered in
evidence so chat this is not misunderstood or mis-
interpreted, and it may very well be inadvertent.
-------
!
2
3
4
5
G
7
3
8
SO
it
12
13
M
?5
16
57
?3
IS
£0
2«
22
S3
24
25
150
MSI. ALPORD: Your remarks, Mr. Dewey,
will be in the record and. will serve as that refer-
ence.
DR. BDRRELLs And the fact of the
matter is, I read the testimony as given and Dr.
Dewey's correction is correct; it was not stated in
the proper fashion.
MR. ALFORD: The record will speak
for itself in that respect.
DR. BURRELL; Thank you, Dr. Dewey.
MR. ALFORD; Mrs. Skou,- did you have
a question for Dr. Burrell?
MRS. SKOU: No, X did not. I just
wanted to say that very often we are allowed to return
chemicals that are unopenedt and to the best of ray
knowledget orchardists do this, so we clo not regu-
larly store very many chemicals.
MR. ALFORD; Thank you.
(The following is Exhibit 166:
-------
s
2
s
4
5
6
?
3
8
10
SI
c2
is
Vi
tB
?o
37
39
20
2»
ZZ
P.S
U
25
151
MR. ALFORD: T. D. Hurley?
Mr. Hurley, your statement will be
identified as Exhibit No. 167.
ME. HURLEY: Thank you. My name is
Thomas Hurley. I represent the Consolidated Cigar
Corporation, one of the gro^rers of Connecticut shade
wrapper tobacco. I have a very short statement.
I feel kind of naked in front of all
these big statements you have had before.
Dear 3ir: Consolidated Cigar Corpo-
ration, a division of Gulf and Western Industries,,
is one of the growers of Connecticut shade wrapper
tobacco in the Connecticut River Valley area between
Middletownr Connecticut and Greenfield, Massachusetts.
The pesticides used in car insect con-
trol programs are diaainon, malathion and savin.
Such pesticide applications conform at all times to
levels recommended by the Connecticut and Massachu-
setts Agricultural Experiment Stations and Extension
Services ..
It is our belief, based upon long ex-
perience wi th these materials,, that a two-day reentry
time into fields treated with diasinon, raalathicn,
parathion or sevin would be a realistic time interval.
We make this statement cnlv in view of
-------
\
2
3
4
K
«/
6
7
S
9
10
n
12
S3
14
55
S3
V
38
30
m
u
a?.
S3
24
£5
152
the climatic conditions and insect population of the
Connecticut Valley, being cognizant that other areas
of the country may present different conditions.
We heartily endorse the principle of
protective clothing and equipment for workers apply-
ing the pesticides or checking their effect after
application. We insist, at the present time? on usags
of this protective clothing or equipment in our fam-
ing operations.
That is the end of my statement.
MR. ALFORDs Thank you, Mr. Hurley.
Any questions from the Panel?
DR. UPHOLT: i wonder if Mr. Hurley
can perhaps provide for the record and answer right
now a little more detail on how he arrived at this
two-day .interval?
MR. HURLEY s Number one, we have a
very extensive agronomy department and research and
chemical laboratory,, and based upon their recommenda-
tions and the recommendations that have coirte from the
Connecticut and Massachusetts Experimental Agricul-
tural Stations, we have ar.rived at these reentry
times.
DR. UPHOLTs Presumably- you feel tbat
two days is a workable time?
-------
153
MjR. HURLEY: It is a workable time.
DR. UPHOLT: You are working the field,
and you can stay out that long and it is long enough
to provide protection?
MR* EORLEYs Correct. I would like
to also state at this time I have heard a lot of
people that have had employees back into the field.
We have in season somewhere around 5,000 employees
and we have never had in our experience any injuries
or sickness due to pesticides.
Die. UPHOIiTs Do you have any routine
blood samples or otherwise taken from these employees?
MR. HURLEY: We do not, sir.
MR. &L.F0RD; Any further questions
fro#, the Panel?
MR. BURNAMs You don't use the more
toxic pesticidest then, on your tobacco?
MR. HURLEY s Yes.
ME. BURNAMs Parathion or —
KR. HURLEY j We might use parath:>-nf
but very weaklyf one percent solution. Most of our
applications incidentally are dust.
?4R. ALPOED: Any further questions
from the audience?
(Kto response.)
-------
MS. ALFORD; Thank you, sir.
(The following is Exhibit 167
-------
.154 3
2
155
1
s
2
10
13
52
53
U
n
S i!
S8 II
It
it
20 !
23
&3
25
MR. &LFOKD: If we could take a two-
minute hold.
(Pause.)
MR. JVLFORD: Back on the record.
Marcel F. Mulberry?
DR. BURRELL; Mr. Mulberry is a close
neighbor of mine. He testified at the OSHA hearings
at Washington, and he is unable to be here today be~
cause he's winding up his apple harvest. He expressed
great regret.
MR. ALFORDs Thank you? sir.
Kr. Mulberry had requested on behalf
of the Kew York State Horticultural Society that
eight people listed in his letter be permittee', to
testify. I will re-ad those names.* so any of the
people "who are here we will take at this time.
Douglas Sergeant^ Roderick Dressed,
Lee Johnson-. Peter Nesbitt, Richard Slawsan, Peter
Conc3:lin — I believe we had Mr. Concklin earlier
today Howard Baker, Robert .Irwin, Joseph Trapini.
DR. BURRSLLs I know all these people.
None are here. They're just deep in the apple bar-
vest. It is not that they are not interested.
MR. BERRY: Mr. Alford?
MR. ALFORD: Yes, Mr. Berry.
-------
156
MR. 332HBY; I might just say that most
of those named are from 'Western ?Jev York. That is
about 250, 300 miles from here, and I understand
from my .•associates, some of them may be in tomorrow.
If not, their representatives will be in tomorrow.
MR. ALFORD: We will be happy to
give them an opportunity to talk tomorrow i£ they
are here.
Douglas Sinclair?
DR. BURRELL; He did write me he ex-
pected to be here toiaorrow.
MR. ALFORD: Off the record.
(Discussion had off the record.)
MR. ALFORDs Back on the record,
Mr. Sinclair also submitted a letter
with a number of names on it. I will read those name
at this time and anyone present will be taken in
order. Some of the 'names are duplicated from the
previous list.
Howard Baker, John Burchr Robert Coene
Ralph DeBcxres, Jerry Fitch,- Sheldon Furber, Robert
Irwin, Tom Ha nee ? Willis Jlohlar f John Pettit, Robert
Rig-don? Richard Taylor, Murray Thojnpson, Gerald
Verbridge , Fritz Wafler, Ralph Woofivrorth, Richard
Rose, Andrew Orbaker.
-------
1
2
s
4
5
6
7
8
3
SO
i!
<2
ts
:5
17
ie
!9
2i>
21
22
S3
24
23
157
Walter Baran?
MR. BARANs Yes, sir.
MR- ALFORD: Mr. Baran, your testimony
will be identified as Exhibit Wo. 168.
MR. BARAN; Thank your ?4r. Chairman.
Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Walter
Baran. I am president of the Pesticide Association
of New York State. This is an organization of persons
engaged in the manufacture and distribution of pesti-
cide in this State. I am also the manager of the
Pesticide Department of the Cooperative serving all
areas of the State and all types of farmers. It is
part of my responsibilities to know what happens when
the pesticides we sell are used.
Thus, any complaints of illness or in-
jury from the use of pesticides we sell would be
brought to my attention, I am not unique in this
respect. Among our members are many other persons
similarly engaged in the distribution of pesticides.
Still others are highly trained tech-
nical people who regularly inspect orchards and fields
of Hew York checking the need for pesticides anc: the
results of their use.
Thus our members include many highly
trained men who know the why and how and vhen of
-------
J
2
3
4
5
s
7
8
9
20
It
12
13
14
IS
56
J 7
?S
13
20
2?
22
23
24
25
158
pesticide application to a very high degree. They
are knowledgeable of the potentials for good and for
bad in these materials. Their future depends on mak-
ing recoiamendations to the users that will protect
th© users and the users" crops on a continuing rather
than on a one-time basis.
Their recoinmendations cannot be based
solely on profit to the seller without regard for the
benefits to the user. Our recommendations of EPA
approved pesticides must be on a sound basis from
the standpoint of the user which includes safety to j
the user, his family, his workers, the consume;: of j
the crop and the general public.
It is frost tha'c standpoint chat the
following comments are offered:
1. That no need has been indicated
for reentry times in Hew York State.
2. That if reentry standards are
deemed necessary, that they be established oti a
State basis.
3. That is reentry standards are
deemed necessaryf that they be administered by the
Ein/ironirtental Protection Agency rather than the De-
partment of Labor.
i
These recommendations were included j
i
-------
I
2
3
4
5
6
7
3
9
10
33
12
S3
SS
3S
17
16
19
23
«S
gg
£3
as
25
159
in a latter from the speaker wit ten on August 30,
1973 to Mr. Harry Clements, acting chief, Division
of Special Industry Standards,- OSHA, U.S. Department
of Labor, Room 604, Railway Labor Building, Washing-
ton, 0«C«
A copy of this letter is attached,
Exhibit Ar of this discourse. It is my intent to
develop only one of these points further at this
time, that is the need for regulations as to reentry
times and/or the mixing and application of pesticides.
To develop our position on these
points, we surveyed nine of our Board members with a
combined 177 years of experience in the pesticide
industrys experience of a similar type to that
earlier mentioned. They were asked to tell of cny
instances that had come to their attention during
the 1972 and 1973 growing years involving illnens
from the use or application of pesticides.
While only two years are involved,
all agreed that two years were typical of their en-
tire e:rperience.
Ho illnesses from reentry were noted.
Since reentry during the r-praying period either in
the case of tree or rov; crops is practiced to only
a limited extent in this State, such findings ars
-------
1
2
3
4
S
w
7
S
3
to
13
S2
53
S4
IS
ts
17
IS
5S
20
21
22
£3
as
25
160
to be expected.
During the two years, 1972 and 1S73,
seven minor cases of illness were noted involving
applicators while no cases of reentry illness were
reported.
Again# we emphasize that no illness
due to reentry by workers were noted and that six
of th
-------
3
2
3
4
5
6
7
a
s
10
il
f2
S3
14
ss
is
17
33
S3
20
21
22
23
24
25
161
4. Until the applicator certification
provisions of this Act are put into operation, no
other action should be taken.
5. Studies should be made to determine
more exactly the limits of the two problems — reentry
and mixing and/or application difficulties.
6. We offer our assistance in this
study.
Thank you.
MR. ALFQRD: Thank you, Mr. Baran.
Any questions from the Panel?
DR. UPHOLT: Could you describe to us
the criteria that you used in this survey, first, to
determine whether or not a person was ill and,
secondly, if he was, what the cau.se of this ~~ how
do you relate the illness to a specific cause?
MR. BARAHi Our members are people that
are in the field generally working in the field, con-
tacting growers, and should an illness occur, I aza
sure that the farm manager or the farmer would advise
these people.
In other words,- they are living in
the area in a particular county or two counties,
contacting these people.
DR. UPHOLT? So the criterion as to
-------
?
2
3
4
5
6
7
E
S
id
11
12
?S
!4
}3
iS
VI
53
'9
20
2?
"££
23
24
25
162
whether a person is ill or not was left up to the
farmer?
MR. BARANs Yes, reporting it to him?
yes, right, absolutely.
DR. UPHOLTs And was this true a J. so
where the association of any. illness did occur with
the particular pesticide?
MR. BARAK; Right. This is correct.
DR. UPHOLT: There was no medical
supervision or evaluation?
MR. BARANs Ko, no, it was all infor-
mation that came in to us directly from farm managers
or farmers,, farm operators.
MR. ALFORD: Any further questions
from the Panel?
(No response.)
MR. ALFORDs Any questions from the
audience?
(No response.)
MR. ALFORD: Thank you, Mr. Barai;.*
MR. BAR/A!?: Thank you.
(The following is Exhibit 163;
-------
162 ?
2
S
4
5
6
7
20>
12
j3
W [;
w
*i5
I?
<8
33
29
£S
2?.
£S
W i|
|i
25 I!
163
MR. ALFORDs James Herritt? Is Mr.
Msrritt present?
DR. DEWEY; Ee has indicated that he
would like to appear tomorrow.
MR. ALFOHD: That will be fine.
Charles Flagg?
DR. DEWEYs I think he is v?ith Mr.
Merritt's group. I think the whole group plans to
come in tomorrow rather than today.
MRo ALFORDs F. R. Mika, with Dykstra.
I will repeat these names tomorrow for the people who
were not here in case they appear tomorrow.
Louis Ciraasi. He did make a statement
earlier this morning.
Heins Air.arell? Your statement will
be identified as Exhibit 169.
DR. HE IN 2 AMARSLL: My name is Heinz
Amarell. 2 ajti employed by and am speaking for CUL3R0
Tobacco Division, General Cigar Company, Incorporated,
Bloomfield, Connecticut.
CULBRG Tobacco Division is engaged in
growing shade v?rapper tobacco and is opposed to the
section of the emergency temporary standard for ex-
posure to organophosphorous pesticides published in
OSEA's Federal Register notice of June 29, 1973,
-------
16U
concerning the field reentry intervals for parathion.
A five-day waiting period for para-
thion would interfere with the hoeing.- cultivating3
fertiliser applying, suckering, timing and wrapping
operations. Each one of these operations must he
completed at the proper time for successfully pro-
ducing this type of tobacco.
Parathion, which we apply as a one
percent dust at a very low rate of 13 pounds per
acre, would have to be eliminated from the strictly
enforced insect control program to avoid delays of
these operations.
Substitutes for parathion? such as
malathion, carbaryl mixtures, which are considerably
higher in cost,, would add to the many economic prob-
lems that the Connecticut shade wrapper industry is
presently faced with.
The Environmental Protection Agency
and the Division of Special Industry standards are
urged to consider the Connecticut shade wrapper in-
dustry's special situation and change the interval
required for reentering parathion-treated shade
tobacco fields from five to two days.
A two-day waiting period for workers
entering treated fields without special protective
-------
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
?0
U
12
13
M
13
S3
M
13
IS
sk>
£2
23
25
165
clothing is in our experience, with parathion a long
enough period for avoiding health problems of
workers.
A two-day waiting period would not
pose a major problem for the scheduling of field
operations.
Thank you.
MR, ALFORD: Thank you.
Any questions from the Panel?
DR. UPHOLT: He might tell us just a
little bit more how the parathion is used, at what
stage of the —
DR. Mi&RELL: At what stage of the --
we use parathion about one week after setting the
tobacco, when the plant is about four or five inches
tall. At that tirae, we apply our first dusting at
the rate of 1.3 pounds per acre, and we use one percent
dust. We have to use the dust in our operations be-
cause a spray leaves a residue. It is not the para-
thion? it is the carrier of this parathion that
stains on the leaf and creates a problem later on.
This whitish residue will stay on the
leaf if we use a spray and will, of course, wake this
leaf unusable as? a wrapper or it will be of a lower
quality.
-------
166
The dust as compared with a spray, ws
use a peanut shell carrier or we have used tobacco
dust carriers which X7i.ll blend in with the finished
color of the tobacco very well, and it is,of course,
much better quality as compared with the spray.
I mean, we can dust only. We have
used sprays in emergency cases in the past — I would
say twice in the last five years. The sprays that
we had to use are high holicaps because we can5t dust
aerially with insecticides. We had to use sprays
to do the job and we did a lot of damage because of
that.
DR. UPHOLT: The tobacco is not covered
daring this period?
DR. AM/APELL; Well, tobacco is covered
even before, while the field is covered, even before
the plant is set into the field. Then we corae in and
we set the plant out and we dust the first tline. How,
we dust about three to four times before the plant is
tied to a string. Once this has been done, we cannot
dust with ground equipment anymore. We cannot apply
any insecticides from that point on anymore.
In emergency cases., we have tried to
spray.- as I mentioned? and we did a lot of damage
because we had this white residue on the leaf? so as
-------
2
3
-------
s
2
3
4
S
$
7
3
9
*0
11
w
33
U
W
n
YI
oS
'sB
£0
2?
22
23
W
25
168
foliage would be the suckering?
DR. AMARKLL: Would be the suckering.
DR. UPHOLTt How long does that follow
the last application of the applying of dust?
DR. AMARELL: Well, we have made a
practice in the past of waiting at least 24 hours
before we entered the field. Now, we propose
days. We think we can live with two days. We have
applied parathion for many years and we have alfjo
waited 24 hours before we entered the fields.
We think we can live with two days.
It might hurt in certain instances, but I think we
can adjust our practices enough to compromise it.
MR. BURNAMs I have just one question.
Are you aware of labeling on. a parathion one percent
dust that you use? It is not in the highly toxic
category, is it?
DR. AMARELL; No, I don't think so.
MR. AI/FORD: It would be in the pro-
posal a two-day waiting period rather than three if
it is not highly toxic.
MR. BURMAM:; I believe one percent
dust is —
MR. ALFORDs Not highly toxic.
MR, BURNAM; Is in Category 2.
-------
169
MR. ALFORD: That is true. Any
further questions from the Panel?
(No response.)
MR. ALFORD: Dr. Amarell, one points
ynu refer to 13 pounds, is this 13 pounds of dust?
DR. AMARELL: Yes.
MR. ALFORDs Not 13 pounds of actual
parathion?
DR. AMARELL; 1.3 pounds active.
MR0 ALFORDs Thank you, sir.
Any questions from the audience?
(No response.)
(The following is Exhibit 169s
-------
170
MR. ALFORD: Is there anyone else
present who would like to make a statement?
DR. TOBIW: May I ask a question?
John Tobin.
You raised a point just now as tc
whether one percent parathion dust would have the
poison label with the skull and crossbones. It was
ray impression that the proposed regulations considered
technical materials and not formulations. Am 1
correct or incorrect?
MR. ALFORDs In the case of the ex-
ceptions where v/e did name individual chemicals ? I
believe that's right.
MR. BUPJMM; X believe that's true.
55R. ALFORD t In the paragraph of where
we were talking about all chemicalsf it did break them
down by category,, but you are correct.
MR. BURMAvi; Hut the oth:r part.
Category .1 f 2, 3 and 4 are by formulations.
MR. &LFORD; Yes. This concludes the
list of names which I had as previously registered
on the cards that were filled out today requesting
to testify before the hearing today.
Is there anyone else present who
would like to testify?
-------
I
2
3
4
S
e
7
5
9
10
1!
12
!3
U
55
S3
17
13
19
20
2?
22
23
24
35
171
(No response.}
ME. ALFORO; I will tomorrow go over
the list and recall the names of those who were not
present today in order to give them em opportunity
to make their statements at that time. The hearing
will be recessed uatil 9:30 a.m. here in this room.
(Whereupon7 hearing adjourned at
2;50 o'clock p.m.)
------- |