TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
*0N
HOOVER REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
Official Reporters
Washington, D. C.
546-6666

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EKVIROKMEWTMj protection agency
175
HEARINGS and PROPOSED GEJSER.TC STANDARDS
OCCUPATIONAL SAFETY REQUIREMENTS for PE?iTICIi)ES
DVPI.RTtlEHT OF EHv'IUOWME^TAL COI-ISEFo^TjCON
Sfe-3'cs o"c Mev; York
50 7-ioif P.oe-.d.
Albany - Ivev? Yor'it
Rook i 05
"sdiiesdsy, ^ctcbar 17, .19? 3
9:35 o:clock a-vn..
i !!

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APPEARANCES;
Panel of the Environmental Protection Agency
CHAIRMAN HAROLD ALFORD
GEORGE BEOSCH
DR. WILLIAM UPHOLT
WILLIAM BUSKAM
STANLEY A. FENXCHEL
Present;
Ar thur B. Burre11
Philip Greene
Thomas Huriey
Leland F. Beebe
Rcckviood N. Berry
Walter Baran
James Dewey
Anthony J. Moriello
Allan Jackson
Ilelvin B. Kurd
Edward R. Crist
Oliver Cosaurm
John D. totaling
Peter Concklin
Jack A. Sill
Ruth K„ Skou
John L. Brookins
Louis Cimasi
Heins Amarall

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DAVID
2 I SI'ATKMEKT OF:


James M. Key.? it t
David N. Ross
Jacqueline Furfoer
Jo Ann Herman
M.vs „ Francis Kirfo^
Janet L., EecI;:enG
i®rs, Lois VJaxM^i'
Dale Young
vft. Iliatii fiantaro
Lawrence Soroolla, Jr
C OH|EMS
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EXHIBIT I\TO ~ PAGE

170
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PROCEEDINGS
MS. ALFQRDs Will the hearing come to
order, please?
This is a continuation of the public hearing
regarding occupational safety requirements for pes-
ticides held in this room yesterday, October 15th,
of the continuation of witnesses who have requested
to testify.
We will start with Mr. James M. Merritt.
Mr, Merritt? Do you have a written state-
ment you wish to file?
MR. MERRITT: YeS. I do.
MR. ALFGRDs Your statement will be identi-
fied as Exhibit No. 170. You may proceed,
MR. MERRITT: I am James M. Merritt. I
live on King Road near Forestville, New York. I
represent our family farm corporation, Triple M Farms,
Incorporated,, and also the Concord Council; a3 pres-
ident of each.
The Council is concerned with the Concord
grape industry, the major variety in all areas ex-
cept California and Arizona. While over 90 percent
of the U.S. crop is produced in those two states,
the other ten percent is of major importance to the
agricultural economy of the other producing areas.

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I should like to incorporate into this
record the statement I presented at the OSRa hearing
in Washington.- B.C. on August 22nd in order to quan-
tify some of the factors iri our operation in the
vineyard and to discuss some other points at this
time»
In considsriBy snich that has been
reported thus far at these many hearingse there are
elements that appear to me to be important to a suc-
cessful effort in respect to the use of pesticides
in our vineyards as followss
.Experience: We have reviewed all the
factors on yhich various argumente havs been based
and ws find no evidence of any sittergency in our
vineyard industry. Progressi^/ely,- since the first
pesticide control legislation wars enacted in 1910 r
our f.rec-: has undertaken mere pest control and lucre
SQphisticate.d iTtethods ? bat at a pace that has avoided
eatergesioies except coincident with the advent of
parathior* applications five to ten years ago.
There (.'ere some illnesses traceable
to careless mixing and application practicesf bat
these problems vere corrected and there has been no
repetition.
I have disc\

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177
many knov?ledgeable people in our vineyard industry
and I can find no evidence of benefit to be gained
from imposing formalized systems for regulating mix-
ing, application or reentry. Our people, owners and
employees are intelligent and capable enough to use
the years of experience to avoid accidents.
Education: The first agricultural
agent in New York State was employed in our vine-
yard. area, and one of the first substations of the
State Experiment Station was located there. A steady
tradition of Extension service and Experiment Station
teamwork has fostered a steady orientation of vine-
yard operators and vineyard employees to many-
technological developments, including pesticide use.
This has been going on for 60 years
or more and since many vineyards have been producing
for all those years, the educational process has
reached generations of vineyard owners and vineyard
workers. This is no her e~ tod ay-gone-tomorrow in-
dustry, but rather one steeped in tradition and?
without emergencies of any consequence, capable of
learning the new, while retaining the accumulated
experience.
The great majority of vineyards are
in the hands of people with experience, accustomed

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to following instructions and continually accepting
new developments, although typically at a slow but
steady pace.
Specificity. For want of a better terra,
I use that to emphasize that our ten percent of the
U.S. grape industry is not part of one big national
vineyard. Successful viticulture demands certain-
sites, soils and climates. Small variations dictate
success or failure. In general, the vineyard indus-
try I represent must be considered as having similar
climatic requirements, but with some distinct dif-
ferences in insect and disease control, within this
ten percent, but we must remember that California-
Arizona varieties have to rely on sulfur dust to
control mildew and may consequently have a dermatitis
problem whereas sulfur dust will kill racst variety
in these other areas.
That exemplifies the specificity of
ov.r pesticide practices and the utter futility of
"a single set of regulations" for the U.S. vineyard
industry.
Research; I spent many years in re-
search and development and, therefore, 1" am compelled
to point out that distressing as it may be to those
that recommend that we discard our present pesticides

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for one reason or another? there is no way to replace
them. Our industry u^es so little volumes in tons or
dollars that we cannot expect new and wonderful pro-
ducts designed to solve the perennial problems of
insect and disease-free vineyard products. Unless
and until Federcil end State funds support industry
research liberally when it is in the public interest
to chancre pesticides.- it is a losing proposition for
any producer and all his stockholders.
Sales dollars have to be generated to
pay for research as well as production,, and our vine-
yards share with many other specialized cropsP small
in acreage but essential to the economy of our
country, the inability to afford extensive research.
Hence we need to have available our
present pesticide complex., unless and until others
become available and can be adapted to viticulture.
Organisation; The viticulture that I
represent is well organised to use its experiences
being localized, intensive and perennial with long
life vine-yards. It is well staffed with, specialised
Extension Service specialists,, with a strong rapport
between growers and staff., and since the crop moves
to processors of jellies arid beverages? including
wineries P the growers are strongly guided by three

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groups: dealer representatives, processor fieldmen
and .Extension Service experts.
The organization of viticulture is
such as to protect against errors and enforce an in-
telligent effort free of emergency situations.
Present status: Much time has been
spent in hearings preparing statements and in reading
magasine articles. For some reason, the incongruities
of a cry for emergency standards embracing all¦area?
has often exceeded the bounds of comprehension. Our
vineyard people, owners and employees alike, have
been perplexed, confused and finally unaffected by
the storm.
In general, jC think our people are
waiting for a rational explanation of what, if any-
thing, will be useful to us all in producing grapes,
owners and employees alike. I think they expect
that changes in labeling will develop, thst these
will be pointed out to us by dealers, field men, and
Extension Service, and I think they expect to put the
good things into practice, as they always have, with-
out summary inspections and fines.
I was intimately associated with a
highly regulated agriculture in wartime and post-
wartime Italy where a generation had been trained in

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regulation. It would be a poor substitute for the
experiencef educationf specificityt research and or-
ganization from vrhich our growers have benefitted
these many years.,
Thank you.
MR. ALFORDs Thank you, Mr. Merritt.
If you would reitiain at the podium for a moment f
please, your statement before OSJI» is attached to
this statement?
MR. MERRITT: Yes.
MR. ALFORDs And it is a part of the
single page?
MR. MERRITT; Yes, sir.
MR. AL'FQROt It m11 be a part of the
exhibit 170.
MR. MERRITT; Some of it may be ex-
traneous to the hearing, but much of it is the
technology we wse in our vineyards.
MR. ALFORDs That will be very helpful-
Does the Panel have any questions for
Mr. Merritt? Mr. Eeusch?
.MR. B2USCH: Mr. Merritt, at least I
got the impression that there were sorae accidents
in cue past and that these have now been corrected.
Has this .been documented in the submission to OSHA

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or is it in your submission there?
MR* MERRITT: I was actively involved
in the pesticide industry when parathion came on the
scene and, as with all new products, considerable
Icnowledge of this toxicology emerged at the same time
as the product became usefful in the field. There
were some illnesses, however formal or informal the
reporting may hava been in the area ten years ago
when parathion first came into the picturer and I
am told that these are basically mixing and appli-
cation incidents as characterizedf although of the
phosphate insecticides they came into the picture,
they were scattered all over the country if you will#
all over the worldf but as soon as the technology for
controlling these situations was developed, it was
applied in our area and there has been no recurrence.
MR. ALFORDs Any further questions?
MS.. EURKAM: What are the major pes-
ticides that you use on the grapes?
MR. MERRITT: Parathion and sevin with
seme gut'hion and some roiticide, but the miticides are
relatively smaller ? carbamate insecticides and the'
benzoiaytoly are very promising and the carbamates
in very snail aiiiounts of sulfur and scrae of our
vinipers there are grown as .isolated plants.

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MR, ALFQRDs Now, Mr. Merritt, what
operations or tasks do you have to carry out in the
grape vineyard other than harvesting that does re-
quire extensive contact with the foliage?
MR. MERRI7T; I documented in this
statement in Washington the number of hours that our
employees work as hand labor and we operate something
over 200 acres of grapes, 80 percent of which are
coirasitted to the vineyard before the spray is on,
before the spraying time.
Of the 20 percent that is coiienitted
after spraying bsgins, quite a lot of it is fairly
optional and on a small awount of acreaget possibly
10 to 15 percent of the total grape acreage in the
county. There is a certain amount of physical con-
tact required in positioning the shoots and th«
specific type trellising that we are using in the
grape industry in some vineyards.
This requires what we call shoot po-
sitioning , handling the shoots to bring them into
line? they're beginning to mechanise this and I
should say possibly 20 percent is being done by
itiachina no-;; and probably more will be. All the har-
vesting is done by machine. All the pruning and
much of the suckering is done before spraying begins r

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so X would. say that some of the French hybrids* no
cluster thinningf is done before the spraying be-
gins; shoot positioning and a little suckering,
late seasoning of the trunks a!id that sort of thing
is about all that has to foe done by hand labour.
It has been customary to use carba-
mates? if you will, in that period if you have to
be back into the vineyards within two or three days
Basically, this is not practiced by all the people.
Some have to be back in relatively unskilled labor
will just not do any shoot positioning and others
with relatively skilled labor and little or no com-
mititfsiit to other crops is our own instance -- we
probably spend five percent of our salary personnel
on shoot positioning and we use carbamate insecti-
cides to avoid any problem as long as we can.
I would add this point? that is not
a pan-iicea. If we had an outbreak of insects or a
development of resistance to carbamates, and these
are possibilities.•> we would have to modify" our prac
tieefc, either the shoot positioning or the use of
savin„ products like this, and we would have to go
to parathion to ensure the growth.
For the other grape growers in our
area or in New York State, most of the harvest is

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by machine 95 percent or mors.
1®* ALPORD ; You say there is little
or not hand thinning or cluster thinning by hand?
MR. MERRITT: That is done very early?
it. is done pre-fcicom and we put no sprays except
fungicides.
MR. ALFORDs So you "have no problems
as far as that is concerned on that point?
MR. MERRITT: You see, our spray
program has been starting immediately post-bloom and
it is important to remove the excess clusters before
bloom. Then we wait about 10 or 15 days before we
c-'-n ntart shoot positioning because if you want the
shoot to stay in the position, there is a period in
there that is little delicate to describe,- but
basically there is no overlapping of shoot position-
ing and spraying.
MR» MarORQt Thank you.
Is there any questions from the
audience?
{Wo response.)
MR. AL-FORDs For those of you who were
sot present yesterday, we do permit questions from
the audience if you properly identify yourself by
noae ;>nd by association with any firm or organisation.

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MR. MERRI7T: I think the most urgentf
if I may add this point, is that we have but two in-
secticides and resistance to either one would hazard
the quality of the crop and the record of safety and
quality that we have had these many years.
MR. ALFO'RD; Thank you, sir.
(The following is Exhibit 170;

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MR. ALPGRDs David N. Ross?
I®. ROSS: I am David N. Ross from
Westville, New York. I own and operate 175 acres
of grape vineyard. I began farming in 1950 in part-
nership with my father after graduating from Cornell
University with a Bachelor of Science degree in
Agriculture.
ht that time, we had four acres in
grapes and have gradually expanded before my father's
deat.Ii in 1966, since reaching our present acreage
this year. My remarks will mainly concern the grape
belt in Chautauqua County., of which I am familiar.
I have served as a Director of the
National Grape Cc~opf which is the owner of Welsh
Foods, Incorporated„ and also ha_\?e been chairman of
the executive cornraittee of the Agriculture Department,
Chautauqua County Extension Service.
I believe I have had contact with
grape farmers and their problems besides my ovm.
Basicallyf I believe most growers in our area follow
the r e corr&iervdations of: Extension Service to solve
their problems. 7. know of no deaths or serious in-
juries ih;-nt have occurred.
The greatest danger in source of the
temporary illnesses and the lost time as considered

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in our area is during application and mixing.
The danger is here rather than in a
reentry in our experience as far as what I per-
sonally have in my own operation and what I have
heard as far as other people. Here is where you're
dealing with a toxic item at this point and a pos-
siblity through carelessness or error of danger.
Our area hospitals and doctors are
aware of the possibility of danger and know how to
treat illnass. In our ov>n operations, besides our
full tine, people with me apply the spray? we hire
seme local people in spring and fall to perform hand
labor*
Spring work is completely before in-
secticide spraying begins. The fall work is at
least 30 days after the last spray.
As Mr. Merriti indicated, in most of
our operationt 90 percent of the harvest is now done
by machines, so there is limited number of people in
the field at harvest. Scree of us with different
varieties have raore people. My operation happens
to harvest perhaps 25 percent of our harvest by hand,
but this is not typical of the area. We do some
shoot positioning work during the s^nniuer months.
In these vineyards, we use sevin to

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protect the crop until hand operation is complete.
This year/ ray farm which is an average
one, produced $150,000 of grapes. By the time it
reaches the consumer, its value has multiplied many-
times. This is a considerable contribution to the
economy of the State, without timely sprays* we
could not produce a marketable crop at a figure that
we cculd sell it for.
We need the sprays and we must have
them. Those of us who work with these organophosphate
pe.Bticid.es respect them. We know their dangers.
However, I feel our track record in the
area is good in the C & E belt. As far as the proper
use of insecticides., I believe growers have become
more conscious of. the problems and the dangers as
they have heard of these isolated incidents of small
illnesses and lost time.
I do not believe that any emergency
situation exists at this time. I believe should
continue with our present process of using the basic
research from the colleges? from the chemical com-
panies,. have this passed on to the growers through
the three sources: from dealers F- fc'rorr. the field
men of the processors and from the Extension Service-
Thank you.

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MR. ALFORDt Thank you, Mr. Ross.
Any questions from the Panel?
MR. EURNMi; v^hat is your reentry time
for parathion? When do you use parathion? What is
the usual practice for this spray?
MR. ROSS; We usually like to think of
a week. There is a difference, we feel, between ~
if your reentry and going to do this shoot position-
ing work, we just don't use parathion if-we are going
to shoot position.
If you are going, say, to go into the
vineyard to cultivate where a man is basically going
down the row and not coming into any contact with
the foliage, then a week would be adequate.
MR... ALFORD: Mr. Ross, do you base this
judgment on experience or are you aware of any actual
tests that have been carried out to show that this
time is needed?
MR. ROSS: We have been discouraged
at scrae of our meetings with in format ion that is fed
to v,s r particularly when Q3HA was going into this
thing of giving possible reentry times, you get fed
one figure at one time and one at another.
Fortunately, I do a lot of this work
myself and we have found that fortunately you. do not

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get violently ill when you. get a mild contact with it.
When you go into the vineyard you begin to get a head-
ache and you think you've pushed into it too soon.
Most of your growers are more cautious with our help
than perhaps take a chance with ourselves to go in.
we never have had anyone with illness
on a reentry problem.
MR. ALFOP.D: But you're waiting one
week after treatment is just based on judgmentf what
you consider to be good common sense?
MR. ROSS; Yes.
MR, ALFORD: Thank you.
Any questions fx-om the audience?
KR. MERRITT; x have one.
Daver I would like to ask, waiting one
week, there is no great pressure on when you get back
anyway for that sort of operation?
MRo ROSS: In most cases, no. ^7e
usually try to plan this operation so if we've get
cultivation to do we try to do that right prior to
the spray? then we're moving along on the cultivat-
ing and then do the spraying. so there's: no real
great pressure.
On the one or two occasions where
we've had a mixup, we've put a man in with a mix

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where we felt we just had to go back in a couple of
days. Otherwise, we just stay out of them until the
time has gone by-
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October 1st listing a number of people from your or-
ganization that you wish to testify. Are those people
with you this morning?
MRS. FURBER: Yes, they are.
MR. ALFORD: I presume you have your
testimony organized in such a manner that this will
not be unnecessarily repetitious?
MRS. FURBERs Well, we hope not. We
may repeat small items, but we have tried to cover
from our experience different points.
MR. ALFORDs That will be fine. You
may proceed =, Do you have a written statement with
you?
MRS. FURBERs Yes, I do.
MR. ALFORD: This will be identified
as Exhibit Mo. 171.
MRS. FURBISH s I am Jacqueline Furber
and I reside in the Town of Huron. State of New York.
My mailing address is R. D. #2, Wolcott, New York,
14590. I am chairman of "Women for the Survival of
Agriculture" in Wayne County. I have come here today
to represent Women for the Survival of Agriculture,
Western New York Apple Growers Association? Inc.,
Furber Farms and all fruit growers in my area.
I believe it is appropriate to point
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out that the absence of fruit growers at these par-
ticular hearings is due to the fact that our fall
harvest is in full sv;ing and our growers are not able
to leave the farras at this time of season. As farmers„
our yearly income depends on a successful harvest of
the crop we produce, and September and October are
hardly convenient months to planning hearings of
such an important nature, at least as far as Worth-
east farmers are concerned.
I have been married for 15 years to an
apple and cherry grower who farms 600 acres of tree
fruit in partnership vzith his father, I live in a
house surrounded by orchards which are sprayed with
every chemical necessary for producing sorae of New
York's finest apples, I have two sons aged 11 and 14
who have virtually grown up in our farm orchards.
Both kids haves without my permission, romped through
freshly sprayed blocks of trees and in some cases
areas that are still wet with spray.
I can testify to the fact that neither
boy has ever had any illness? skin rash or any other
symptom of pesticide poisoning9 and who has the oppor-
tunity to monitor the health of another being more
closely than a mother?
My personal handling and application of
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pesticides is limited to household type bug sprays
and cboo-e chemicals appropriate for use in my vege-
table garden which are included in our farm arsenal
of fruit, sprays. However, my husband, Sheldon, has
urved pesticides regularly for the past 26 years with
no ill effects on himselff our neighbors or our com-
munity. Our farm has never had an incident where an
employee was affected in any way by pesticides. Our
chemical spray bill averages $30,000 annually.
It takes 60 500~gallon spray tanks of
four times concentrate material to spray our farm
about 15 times yearly. My husband does one-third of
the spraying* He has computed that he has personally
applied 15.600.-000 gallons of pesticides, fungicides
and farm chemicals in the past 26 years. That is not
taking into account the thousands of gallons of chemi-
cals of extra applications he has made of weed sprays,
thinning and mouse baiting. During this timeP he has
ussd the foi/.owing fungicides, pesticides, et cetera:
Acaralate, Aldrin, Aramite, Lead
Arsenate,. EHC, Ch.lordane, DDD, DDT, DD7P or Vapona,
Demeton or Systole, Dieldren, Dinitro, Endrin, Ethion,
Guthion, Karathane, Kelthane, Malathion, Morestran,
Oil emulsions and ftiscible oils, Parathion, Phosalone,
Phosdrin, Prethrum and Rotenone, Carbaral or Sevin,
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TEPP[ Streptomicin, Captan, Copper compounds, Dodine,
Dichlone, Dikar, Dithane, Ferbarrt or Fermatef Glyodin,
Lime Sulfur Solutions, Ma neb, Organo-Mercury com-
pounds,. Sulfur, Zineb, Plictran, Galacron? Ethphon,
Spreaders and Stickers, Paraquat, Aminotriazole, Ama-
sine, Aswr.ate X, Atrazine, Casoron, Dacamine 4-D, 2-4-D?
Princep or Simasine, Alar, Fruitone, Naphthaleneacetic
Acid, Naphthaleneacetamj.de or Amid, Gibber el lie Acidf
Calcium NitrateP NU-Green and Urea, and TIBBA. Some
of these chemicals are no longer in general use by
fruit growers. Some have been banned, some have been
replaced by more effective materials, others no longer
economically manufactured.
My husband has always taken reasonable
precautions while handling chemicals. However, he
has had the aforementioned chemicals spilled, splashed
and drifted, on himself in their concentrated and dilute
form, ile has never worn a respirator or special pro-
tective clothing. I would defy anyone here to wear
a respirator or rubberised or plastic treated clothing
for a 10 hour day, in 90 degree heat, while perform-
ing even light or limited manual labor. A worker would
soon suffocate or suffer heat prostration. As a boy,
my husband used pesticides as a dust on tomatoes when
it was so thick there was difficulty seeing the rows.
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Tomatoes were dusted in the area when the wind con-
ditions were absolutely calm, such as early evening,
to prevent the dust from blowing away.
Our home, as I mentioned before, is
surrounded on all four sides by apple orchards. The
closest apple tree is exactly 56 feet from our bed-
room window. This orchard is sprayed on a regular
basis with pesticides. A particularly interesting
feature about our horse is our water supply. My family
and I use the water from this well for drinking in
addition to washing, laundering and bathing. This
well is not of the drilled type, but of the old-
fashioned „ hand dug, stoned up type. It is 27 feat
deep and depends on the water table level for its
supply. The well is located snack-dab in the middle
of an orchard which is sprayed regularly with pesti-
cides. The distance from the top of the well to the
nearest tree is exactly nine feet. We have used this
well for IS years.
After all this and to support the fact
that pesticides have had no ill effect on him, my
husband submitted to a cholinasterase blcod test on
July 30, 1970 and again on August 7, 1973„ This is
a blood sample taken to determine the level of activity
oii certa in enzymes sensitive to organophosphate type
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chemicals, each as Guthion. It is used regularly by
doctors to determine pesticide poisoning. Therefore,
I offer th<* negative results of both of these tests,
one by Rochester General Hospital, Rochester, New
York and one by Bio-Science Laboratoriese VanNuys,
California. The test of three years ago and the most
recent one taken this past August offer proof that
my husband is as normal as the person who never uses
pesticides. He is well within the normal limits.
(See A)
I might also add that my father-in-law,
who is 66, has never suffered any ill effects from
using pesticidesP and he has applied the same mater-
ials as my husband, for many more years. Certainly?
during all of the combined years that my husband and
my father-in-law have used pesticides, they have en-
tered and reentered orchards on a frequent basis and
have worked more closely to foliage and sprayed areas
than our farm workers would ever have occasion to.
We have an Irish Setter dog, a family
pet, who for the four years we have owned her has
followed my husband's sprayer up one row of trees
and down the next. This dog has direct contact with
wet foliage and grass immediately after spraying and
still suffers no ill effects from pesticides. As a
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matter of fact, one might say she lias benefitted
— she has never had ticks or fleas.
I have with me a statement I would
offer as evidence that there is absolutely no need
for pesticide regulation. This statement is from
Leonard C. Schlee, Wayne County Clerk, and I wish
to read it to you. (See 3)
"X am writing this letter in regards
to the new regulations on pesticides (Chapter XVII
Part 1910 Emergency Temporary Standard for Exposure
to Organophosphorous Pesticides) as they apply to
the farmers in our area.
"Wayne County i3 the largest producer
of processing apples in the nation and as such has a
larger percentage of its work force employed on
these farms.
"During the 27 years I have been
County Clerk or Deputy County Clerk I have had the
responsibility of filing the coroner's reports. Dur-
ing this period I do not recall even one coroner's
report that listed the cause of death, as a result
of the use of pesticides,
"I sincerely hope that when your De-
partment revaluates the safety standards for pesti-
cides you will take the above fact into consideration."
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The proposal of requiring special pro-
tective clothing and respirators is not only
unnecessary and impractical but presents a serious
problem to farmers. How to force our employees to
use them. Contrary to the growing trend of govern-
mental agencies to believe that ordinary Joe Citizen
is too stupid to think for himself — the private
citi2en resents and resists interference of their
right to use their cousinon sense.
It is impossible to accurately assess
the costs of implementing standards and their ¦ulti-
mate effect on the cost of farm production. But,
you can count on higher prices to consumers every
time requirements and restrictions are imposed.
There is a real danger to agriculture'
ability to feed this nation when bureaucrats suecomb
to the pressures of ill-informed and vindictive
social action groups and emoitionai pseudo-
environmentalists arid needlessly impose regulations.
The American farmer has an impressive safety record
in his use of pesticides. I believe that regulations
should be imposed by government only Mien and inhere
they are needed. Unnecessary regulation of farm
chemicals becomes more ridiculous when, not just one
but two cr more governmental agencies impose
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overlapping restrictions. This serves only one
purpose — to provide more needless jobs for compliance
officers and clerical staff, which are an additional
burden for the American taxpayer.
X challenge the Environmental Protec-
tion Agency to prove with solid facts and documented
instances of illnesses that there is a need for any
regulation of pesticides in New York's fruit growing
region before ic mandates any type of reentry stand-
ards „ use of protective clothing or any other expen-
sive paraphernalia.
Thank you for the opportunity to
testify.
MR. ALFORB; Thank you, Mrs. Furber.
You referred to the results of certain cholinesteraee
tests run on your husband?
MRS. FURBERs Yes.
MR. ALFORDs Is this attached to
your statement?
MRS. FURBER: Yes, it is.
MR, ALFORD: That will be part of the
exhibit?
MRS. FURBER; Correct.
MR, ALFORD: Thank you, very good,
Are chere any questions from the
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Panel?
(No response.)
M&. ALPORD: Are there any questions
from the audience?
*Wo response.)
MRALFORD: Thank you.
(The fol levying is Exhibit 171 j
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MRo ALFGKD: Mrs, Roger Herman?
Krs. Herman, do you have a written
statement you v;ili submit?
MRS» HERMAN% Yes, I do.
MR. ALFORDs This will be admitted as
Exhibit Wo. 172.
MRS. HERMAN: My name is JoAnn Herman.
My husband Roger and I and our four children live at
1357 Kendall Road, Kendall .in Orleans County. I am
secretary for the Women for the Survival of Agricul-
ture e Orleans and Monroe Counties Chapter, and I am
.representing Western Nev/ York Apple Growers Associa-
tion and Nev: York Farm Bureau.
Although he realizes the importance
of these hearings, my husband cannot be here to tes-
tify. We are in the midst of harvesting apples
cabbage i:<.nd cauliflower and our income for the year
is dependent upon the successful completion of this
harvest, Therefore. I a?a also representing him and
many other fanners in our area who cannot be here for
the sarae reason.
We farra 500 acres v?ith 100 acres in
apples, The remaining acreage is divided among
tomatoes, cabbage, cucumbers, cauliflower, peppers,
soybeans, grain and pasture. V7e also raise betvzeen
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204
75 and 100 head of dairy replacement heifers.
l-he labor force on our farm consists
for the main part of my husband, our 18 year old son
and three daughters, 16, 14 and 9. I also lend a
hand when needed. We employ a young college man
during recesses from school and also several high
school students on winter and spring weekends to help
with orchard pruning. During the months of July to
Moverober our migrant labor force ranges between 15
and 20 workers.
During the years that my husband farmed
first with his Dad and now on his own,' he has always
been diversified in his farming operation thereby mak-
ing it necessary to use almost every type of pesti-
cide, fungicide? miticide or insecticide ever manu-
factured. For the past 30 years he has done almost
all the mixing and applying of these sprays. He has
HEVER suffered any harmful effects. During this past
summer he taught our son and the college student how
to mix ana apply these sprays properly using all
precautions necessary for their safety. Do you
really think that he would allow his own son to do
this job if there was a danger of hazard to his health?
In a family farm operation such as
ours, our family works in the fields most generally
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at the same time arty hired help is working. We sort
plants, transplant/ direct seed, cultivate, load to-
matoes or whatever crop is being harvested and most
other jobs necessary to growing and harvesting a
crop* In many of these jobs we work side by side
with the workers and we have never suffered any ad-
verse effects nor has our help. If a crop has to be
sprayed, it is done when no one is in the field and
no one is permitted in the field until a safe period
of time has lapsed. This period of time depends on
the material used and the label specifications.
The best approach to control is a com-
mon sense control as is presently being used in
agriculture. We are regulated already in that *?e
must obtain a spray permit from the Hew York State
Department of Environmental Conservation to be renewed
each and every year. We keep records of all chemicals
used, the quantity and the date of application. At
the time of harvest a spray report is requested by
the processor before a crop can be delivered. This
report contains all the information on the records
kept during the season. With the farmer being caught
in the price-cost squeeze he certainly is very
frugal with the materials used- From an economic
standpoint,, he cannot afford to misuse or over use.
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My husband spends many hours at meetings where the
farmer is taught how to safely use and apply these
materials. They also read a great many publications
from sources such as Extension Service, spray and
chemical companies and agriculture magazines. We
have an excellent Extension agent and a well informed
representative from our spray company who guide our
yearly spray program. The farmer is well informed
and educated to the soundest and safest spraying
methods and uses. He would no Kiore use a spray with-
out first reading the label and understanding it than
he would use a medicine without reading ar-cl following
the instructions.
It seems rather odd that these hear-
ings were called at such an inopportune time of the
year as far as the farmer is concerned. Anyone know-"
ing anything about agriculture in this area would
know that irdd October is a peak harvest season with
apples, cabbage, cauliflower, dry beans, soybeans,
onions, carrots, potatoes, field corn and other crops
to be harvested. When a man's livelihood depends
upon the harvest of a season, he is not in a position
to be away from the farm. It ir.akes one wonder if so
little is known about agriculture, ju3t how much is
known about harmful effects of pesticides and the
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207
safety precautions needed.
From the history with spraying on our
farm and that of our neighboring farms with no ill-
nesses or deaths resulting, I cannot see where it is
necessary for our government, already burdened by
necessary and unnecessary spending, to spend millions
more on a problem that does net exist.
MR. ALFORDs Thank you, Mrs. Herman.
Are there any questions from the
Panel?
(No response.)
MR. ALFORDz Are there any questions
frora the audience?
(No response.)
HR. AXiFCRDs Thank you.
(The following is Exhibit 172?
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208
MR. ALFORD: Mrs. Francis Kirby?
Mrs. Kirby, do you have a written
statement you wish to submit?
MPS. KIRBY: I do, sir.
MR. ALFORDs This will be identified
as Exhibit Ho. 173.
MRS„ KIRBY: All right.
I am Janet Kirbyr wife of Francis Kirby,
a fruit and vegetable grower from Albion, New York,
14411. I am Chairman of the Women for the Survival
of Agriculture in Orleans-Monroe Counties in New York,
and also represent the New York State Cherry Growers
Association at the request of that organisation. The
fruit growers in our area are in the midst of harvest-
ing apples. Most farms are one-man operations, or at
least headed by one key man who cannot possibly take
time off during harvest to testify here today. We
strongly protest the holding of these hearings that
are so important to the future of agriculture and
of our country at a time when these key men in agri-
culture are unable to attend.
My husband and I have oxmed and operated
about 300 acres for the past 23 years, sfs have three
grown sons, the eldest of whom is now in partnership
with us on the farm and lives next door. Our
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grandchildren ars ths fifth generation of Kirbys
living on this farm? all of us occupying homes sur-
rounded by orchards. The Kirbys have been spraying
fruit on a regular commercial basis ever since the
inception of chemical pest control in the early 1900!s
when it was applied by hand pumps on horse-drawn rigs.
They need to cover the horses with burlap blankets
to protect them from the spray, and in the nearly
three-quarters of a century since, as spray materials
became more powerful, farmers have continued to ob-
serve all the safety precautions indicated by common
sense and research to protect themselves? their work-
ers and their products. In all this time, with
several hundred Kirbys and employees living and work-
ing on this property, there has never been any
incidence of illness, let alone a death, amongst our
family or our employees as a result of using these
chemicals.
In all of Orleans County there were
no deaths due to pesticides in the past 24 years as
shown by the attached letter from Mr. Francis Rumble,
Orleans County Clerk.
Our farming operation includes 100
across of cherries, apples and grapes, 50 acres of
grain, and 150 acres in snap beans, cabbage and
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tomatoes. The pesticides used this year on apples
were guthion, sevin and zolone? on beans, diazinon?
on tomatoes# parathion; on cabbage, monitor, para-
thion, systox, thiodan and dipel; and on cherriese
guthion. Over the years we have used dozens of other
chemicals as they have been recommended by fruit and
vegetable specialists and the New York State Exten-
sion Service, to handle specific problems and help
us produce high quality food to feed this nation.
We feel there is no need for detailed
permanent standards for pesticide usage because the
present regulations are completely satisfactory. Each
chemical has always been accompanied by explicit direc-
tions for safe usage, and the Extension Service has
emphasised these precautions along with their recom-
mendations f.or use. We highly approve of the New
York State law requiring a permit to purchase toxic
materials, so only qualified persons can obtain them.
In addition to reading quantities of bulletins and
periodicals on the subject, commercial farmers spend
many hours attending special meetings to learn the
new methods,; materials and safety procedures that
have been developed for the industry. I know of no
other profession! except doctors who spend so much time
keeping up with new developments formulated to improve
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their work? and like doctors, farmers are special-
ists e thoroughly educated in the proper use of these
materials and methods. The simple economic factor of
cost prevents excessive use of such materials.
Reentry hazard has never been a prob-
lem in our area. Common sense dictates that workers
are not sent, into a tomato field to hoe immediately
after an application of parathion. Tree pruning is
done in the winter when sprays are not being used,
and good management keeps employees working in safe
areas at ail tiroes. State law prohibits applying
sprays to crops for several days prior to harvest,
to insure the safety of both the workers and the har-
vested product. We have never had a problem in this
area and see no need for additional lews pertaining
to it. The suggested restrictions cf written and
oral warnings would still not keep people out of a
sprayed area if they chose to walk in, anymore than
posted signs keep the public from going in and help-
ing themselves to produce or hunting. There surely
is no way to police property day and night.
In regard to mixing and applying toxic
materials, we feel no single set of rules tv-j.ll fit
every operator or situation. The need for protection
is clearly understood, but the exact type of clothing
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worn by the operator varies with weather conditions.
All farmers agree that heavy protective clothing and
equipment in hot weather are more dangerous than the
possible contamination they are trying to avoid.
Many people are in favor of using respirators# yet
my husband feels safer without one. I think his rea-
soning is quite sound. v7hen mixing sprays he stands
where the wind will blow dusts and fumes away from
hiraf and keeps his hands washed clean. When apply-
ing sprays he relies on his thorough understanding
of the ehem.ical he's working with and his sense of
smell. Every chemical has its own peculiar odor.
If he is spraying an orchard with parathion on a
quiet day he can tell immediately if the fumes are
beginning to build up around him, so he can change
the direction of his work. Instead of spraying rows
in consecutive order he can skip areas and go back
to them after some of the fumes have dissipated, or
if the fumes seem particularly strong he can simply
quit spraying and go back to finish the job at a
later time. He feels that if he were depending on
a respirator he would have no way of knowing the in-
tensity of the fumes surrounding him, and that
respirators? being ntanmade, can malfunction. He
prefers to trust himself, and suggests that dependence
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on material protections can lead to carelessness on
the part of the operator. I suggest that this should
continue to be an elective matter. A man should have
the right to decide for himself how he will protect
himself from dangerous materials. If we get to the
place where even minute details of our lives are
dictated by someone else, and we no longer have the
right to make our own decisions( we can no longer be
called a democracy-
As taxpayers, we object to the govern-
ment spending millions of dollars trying to find an
answer to a problem that does not exist. As farmers,
we feel that continued research and education in the
use of toxic materials is wise, but that no restric-
tive laws should be enforced without concrete proof
of their need. We are intrigued with the new methods
of pest control that are being investigated today that
may lead us away from the use of poisons. However,
at the present time, we feel that continued education
that allows a man to use his own common sense is the
answer, not legislation that could never be written
properly to cover all the variables inherent in pro-
ducing food in this country.
To enforce standards that are so
stringent and expensive that they put employers out
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of business is ludicrous, and can only swell the
ranks of the unemployed in America and cause a severe
scarcity of vitally needed products in the world.
The farmers in America are not willing to be enslaved
by detailed rules and regulations concerning every
facet of their life and work. The joy of living is
not counted by money in the bank but by the success-
ful use of one's own education, common sense* and
inate abilities. Over-regulation can kill the in-
centive to do a superior job, and this factor of
incentive is the sole reason why the United States
leads the world in agriculture. Our ability to feed
a hungry nation is our country's greatest asset...
letcs not hastily destroy the most valuable thing
we own.
Thank you for this opportunity to
testify.
MR. ALFOKDs Thank you„ Mrs. Kirby.
Are there any questions from the
Panel?
MR. BURNAM; When you harvest cherries,
is this a mechanical harvest?
MRS. KIRBY: T\fe use mechanical now.
MR. BURNAM; What would you say as to
the percentage done mechanically in your area? I
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mean, is almost all of it or is it ¦»-
MRS. KIRBYs Most al~ of it now.
There are large orchards that can handle them.
There are some small orchards that still use help.
MR. ALFORD: Any further questions?
(No response.)
MR. ALFORD; Any questions from the
audience?
(No response.)
MR. ALFORD: Thank you, Mrs. Kirby.
(The following is Exhibit 173:
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MR. ALFORDs Janet L. Beclcens?
Mrs. Beckens, do you have a written
statement that you wish to present?
MRS. BECKENSs Yes, I do.
MR. ALFORD: This will be identified
as Exhibit No. 174. You may proceed.
MRS. BECKENS: My name is Janet
Becksnso I live on Fish Farm Road in Sodus, New
York; 14551. My husband/ Alfred, and I own and oper-
ate a 213 acre fruit farm in Sodus, a small town near
Lake Ontario,, about 30 miles east of Rochester.
I axn also a member of W.S.A. Women
for Survival of Agriculture. The aim of our organi-
zation is to help the farmers in whatever way we can
and to go to bat for them publicly when their farm
duties prevent them from so doing. That is why I
am hare today.
On- our farm we raise sweet cherries,
sour cherries? five varieties of peaches, two kinds
of pears and 16 varieties of apples.
We employ one full time hired man who
has been trained to do almost any job on the farm.
We have three to seven migrant workers who are em-
ployed during harvest season. Our two teenage sons
help in any capacity needed and we ?iire neighborhood
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217
kids to help harvest some of our fruit.
In 1973 we used the following pesti-
cides on our fruit; imidan for apple magot? sevin
for green aphids and apple magot; systox for red
mites and aphids? ethion for red mites and coddling
moth? liquid guthion for plum curculio, aphids and
cherry magot; kolo 100, fungicide for apple scab;
polyram for apple scab; sulphur for fruit rot and
mildew; difolatan for apple scab; benlate for brown
rot.
All materials applied, in water mix-
ture,, by tractor drawn 500 gallon air blast spray
rig.
We know that pesticides can be danger-
ous when used improperly. So can prescription drugs
or automobiles when used under similar conditions.
In order for the fruit grower to
produce enough in quantity at the quality American
standards demand he must use pesticides. Without
these pesticides, he would soon be out of business
because his quality would be unacceptable and his
yield would drop to a level which would not allow
him a profit.
Please understand these pesticides are
not free to us; they are very expensive- At present,
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a grower who raises an average of 30,000 bushels of
apples per year can count his cost for pesticides at
between $4,500 and $5,000 per year. Our cost this
year will be close to $8,000. This, of course, varies
slightly from one year to another.
Because of the cost involved and the
fanners' already slender star gin of profit, it should
bs easy to see that he vrould be very careful about
how he spends his money. He analyzes his needs
carefully because mistakes are costly to hiin.
Every grower we know has a close re-
lationship with his Agri-fieldman. He knows he can
trust him because his recommendations coincide with
tha recommendations of independent services such as
Geneva Experimental Station.
They are trained to guide us to use
the best products for our needs at reasonable costs.
In inany casas prevention of a pest problem is easier,
less expensive and time consuming than eradication.
Also preventive pesticides are far less toxic than
eradicates and need to be used less often and in
smaller quantities. Advice about timing and needs
in this area is the job of our Agri-fieldman. Thank
heaven for them!
A farmer is an expert in his field.
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Both experience and the reams of literature avail-
able to him are his teachers. A good farmer studies
fco learn all he can about new products, and research
results. This is another way he knows he is spending
his money wisely. In order to remain in business a
farmer knows he must keep abreast of everything that
relates to him directly and indirectly.
He has learned to read everything on
the pesticide package so he knows of any change that
may have been made in the product or in regulation
for its use. Ka is aware of dangers and how to
handle emergenciesr should the need arise. We fol-
low the precautions and have trained our hired ir.an
fco do so.
Every grower who uses pesticides in
any quantity must have a purchase permit issued to
him by the New York State Department of Environir-ental
Conservation? Bureau of Pesticide Control. Our per-
mit allow,1? us to buy and use any and all of the
pesticides X listed earlier.
We feel that present regulations on
pesticide use are sufficient for our present needs.
1, Before a product is placed on the
market for use it must raeet government safety regu-
lations and it must be registered with Environmental
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Protection Agency*
2. Ail pesticides, old, p.ev: and pro-
posed are under constant research and study fcy the
governmentthe chemical companies and independent
research organizations. One of these is the Ex-
perimental Station at Geneva, New York, an affiliate
of Cornell University. This particular research
facility is probably the most adequate, efficient
and highly respected authority on every aspect of
pesticide research in our entire country. All in-
formation coming from this station ie carefully con-
sidered by anyone involved.
As fruit growers we feel that reentry-
standards are unnecessary and that no emergency
exists.
My husband and I were born and raised
on a fara where pesticides have always been used and
neither ona of us or any member of our family has
been killed or injured by pesticides. In fact, our
family dog a ten year old German shorthair, has run
behind the tractor and spray rig, up and down be-
tween the rows of trees,, day after day, year after
year? all of his life. He comes in at noon for din-
ner, panting frora exhaustion., dripping with pesticide
solution, and ravenously hungry. He can still lick
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any dog in the neighborhood although sores are half
again his sise. I think I should point out here that
on two occasions when Alfred used a highly toxic
pesticide, the dog was shut in the shop until the
spraying operation was completed.
Wo one who has ever been or our farm
has become ill from spray. This includes, friends,
relatives, visitors and neighbors. No one who has
ever worked for us has become ill from spray. This
includes our hired man and anyone employed to harvest
our crops. I have talked with area growers and the
sa«v3 story holds true. Our town health officer re-
ports that he knows of no deaths, ever, relating to
pesticideso Our town clerkE s records prove tha same
to be true.
Here I pose a question: How do you
legislate common sense?
Laws may limit and demand f but they do
not educate. Long lists of laws and regulations lead
to confusion «nd misinterpretation. Intricate and
complicated laws create a need for constant change.
Just when one .haa breathed a sigh of relief that he
has finally blundered his way through the 20 pages
of fine print, he finds the law must be rewritten i0
meat new needs.
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Laws and regulations are important
and necessary, however, they must, have a sound basis*
Needs ravist be thoroughly researched e laws must be
kept basic and simple. When those involved cannot
understand the regulations or the need for theirs
they cannot be expected to obey them. To my way of
thinking„ this is encouraging rather than discourag-
ing law breaking. Soon people will lose respect for
their legislators and eventually for their whole
deinocratic system.
Education is the key to corranon sense«
Laws do not educate the farmer, his family or em-
ployees? experience and study do. Anyone has to
understand what he is doing, why there are regulation
and how they apply to hiir.. Laws do not., cannot c.nd
never will replace common sense. So I say, educa-
tion; not legislation. That's the key.
Enforcement of proposed reentry stand-
ards would pose problems. Areas to be patrolled are
vast and scattered. Trie course of compliance to
regulation is diverse and constantly changing. It
would be nearly impossible to prove a misdemeanor,
Many aspects of standards are un-
realistic.
1. Warning signs; small children and
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animals cannot read. Trespassers would heed these
warning signs thoroughly as well as they now heed
posted signs.
2.	Reentry time: About the only work
for which employees need to enter the orchard, that
involves direct contact with foliage is harvest.
Pesticide applications are completed many days, even
weelcs before harvest begins, x^fter an orchard has
been sprayed, it only takes a couple of hours at
most for foliage to dry. When grass and trees are
very little, if any, residue sticks to clothing or
skin or is airborne.
3.	Pro\^iding laundry facilities;
This would prove to be a very large and unnecessary
expense.
4.	Protective clothing for employees:
Our applicators already wear coveralls, hats and boots
to keep dry and safe. They also wear gloves and
respirators when needed. Besides that, most growers
have a protective cab built around the driving sec-
tion of their tractors.
clow, can you just imagine having your
body completely covered, head to toe; not even a
pinky protruding? with a rubber suit, breathing hot
air through a respirator on a 95 degree dayr then
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trying to work? They would have to pour you out of
your suit at the end of the day.
As needs for more and better products
change and the products become more complex and di-
verse e some regulation may become necessary, but
again I emphasize these regulations must be based
on documented need and fact.
Any standards which regulate our
activities should be set by people who have the in-
terest of all concerned at heart. These groups should
be represented by farmerst pesticide manufacturers,,
independent researchers and legislators.
Pressure groups and bad publicity are
making it necessary for us to struggle every day for
our very survival. So the last thing we need is
irresponsible legislation to add extra weight to our
already heavy burden now or in the future.
Thank you»
MR. ALFORD; Thank you, Mrs. Beckens.
Is there any question from the Panel?
(Mo response.)
MR. ALFORD; Any questions from the
audience?
(No response.)
MR. ALFORD % Thank you very much..
(The following is Exhibit 174 s
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MR. ALFORD: Mrs. Lois Wafler?
Hrs. Wafler, do you have a written
statement you will submit?
MRS. WAFLER: Yes, I do.
MR. MiFORD: This will be identified
as Exhibit 175. You may proceed.
MRS. WAFLER; I am Lois Waflter, Mrs.
Fritz Wafler, from Wolcott, New York, 14590. I am
vice chairman of "Women for the Survival of Agri-
culture" in Wayne County. We work in many ways to
inform people of the true nature of agriculture. My
husband is a director and immediate past vice presi-
dent of the Western New York Apple Groxifers Associa-
tion. Besides speaking for these two organizations,
I voice the concerns of wayne County fruit growersr
busy with harvest, who cannot be here.
I am a farm woman who is personally
involved with farming, farm workers, farm equipment
and farm materials including farm chemicals. My
family and I live in a house surrounded on three
sides by orchards sprayed with pesticides. My hus-
band has been in contact with many pesticides for
years; first on his father's fruit farm,, later as a
farm, employee and fruit picker in many fruit areas
in Canada and the United States before buying our
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farm in 1959. Our family, including our three chil-
dren, work in our fields, in our orchards and in our
nursery besides our farm employees. During havest
times our work force is doubled or tripled- We farm
about 200 acres of apples, cherries, pears and peaches,
over 100 acres of wheat, 300 to 700 acres of green
beans and have a commercial nursery which supplies
fruit trees to other growers. To produce our quali-
ty farm products we use various chemicals - fertilizers,
pesticides, miticides, herbicides - when and where
necessary. I know of no one in our family or any of
our employees who have been adversely affected by
their use.
I believe it would be advantageous
for EPA to get infield sampling of comments and data
to supplement the oral and written testimony. I could
direct EPA to over 60 fruit farmers that signed a
statement at a growers5 meeting in Williamson,
June 11, 1973, stating the OSHA Emergency Temporary
Standard for exposure to organophosphorus pesticides
did not apply, was not workable, and they would not
accept it. These growers represented, a combined
experience in mixing, application and reentry with
all types of pesticides of over 1700 years without
an illness or injury. See attached Exhibit A. The
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information regularly from two fruit extension
specialists who also drop by. I have lost track of
the number of tour groups that have come to our farm
to see how things are done. My husband confers by
phone or in person many times each year with the
heads of the various departments at nearby Geneva
Experiment Station and occasionally with Cornell
University. Both these centers of learning are
world renowned as my husband found out when touring
orchards and nurseries in Europe several years ago.
I know personally six fruit farmerss living within
a radius o? 2 1/2 miles from us, who have atteno.ed
Cornell where they gained valuable background infor-
mation from fruit courses taken. The extension
offices in each county arid these two Mew York centers
of fruit learning and continuing research have the
respect and cooperation of fruit growers. Our closest
neighbor and ray husband hove provided cites and ma-
terials for various research projects involving
chemicals. During the spring apple scab infection
period an extension fruit specialist broadcasts each
weekday morning at about 6s15 the latest data and
spray r e contend a i ions for each specific fruit area»
Later in the year when the tinning is less crueisl
and sprays are less frequent* tehcnical reports are
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given on a Rochester, New York radio station, WHAM,
every Wednesday during the fruit grower's lunch
period. The 35 farm publications that come to our
mailbox are almost enough to furnish a private library.
My husband studies carefully the pesticide labels
and chemical spray handbooks. When there is an un-
usual orchard problem or weather condition he calls
the fruit extension specialist and/or a chemical
company fieldman to double check to make sure only
the right spray, amount and application are used.
New York State already regulates the
minimum number of days before harvest that specific
chemicals can be applied to avoid excessive residues
on harvested crops. New York also requires that
certain chemicals may not be purchased, possessed or
used without special permits. California has chosen
to issue other state regulations for itself. You
don't have to have lived in California, as I did for
ten years, to realize the climatic conditions are
different there than in Nev; York. It vrould seem that
EPA does not need to prescribe an aspirin for Mew York
as an attempt to solve the headaches in California.
I am concerned for farm employees who
will be affected by the lack of work days necessi-
tated by any specific reentry period. While I realize
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that reentry may be permissible even on the day of
spraying when certain protective clothing is worn,
those of vis with farm experience know how ridiculous,
impractical and impossible disposable clothing would
be to work in if it is similar to that exhibited by
an OSHA speaker. A heavier, more durable, impermeable
clothing could cause heat prostration on hot and humid
days we have often during spraying.
OSHA suggested regulations prescrib-
ing specific laundrying procedures for. employees'
clothing used in spray areas. As a grower's busy
wife, I am not able, willing or about to do the
laundry for our employees. If this special launder-
ing is required, it will have to be done commercially
with the cost passed on to the consumers. If the
grower must provide all the protective clothing that
may be required for workers, signs that few will read
and other special equipment, costs will go up for
everyone without necessarily bettering our already
safe experience of use.
I resent very strongly that much of
the regulations proposed by OSHA and EPA imply every-
thing must be written out in detail in order to
achieve farm worker protection. Farm chemicals,
like so many other things, are safe or hazardous,
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depending on how they are used. Safe use requires
applying knowledge with common sense. This cannot
be mandated. To dictate to a man what he should wear
and every move he should make in pursuit of his labors,
is to rob him of the right to use the common sense
with which he was born and the education he has so
painstakingly acquired over the years. To pursue
this course is to develop a nation of people that
will not know enough to come in out of the rain.
Every mother knows over-regulation of a child pro-
duces a useless individual. I submit that over-
regulation of men will do the same and I protest the
current trend to turn men into robots. If over-
lapping bureaucracies continue to dabble irrespon-
sibly in agriculture the final outcome can only be
hungry bureaucrats trying to explain to a hungry
America where all the farmers went.
Thank you for the opportunity to
testify.
MR. ALFORB; Thank you? Mrs. Wafier.
Are there any questions from the
Panel?
{No response.)
MR. ALFORD s Are there any questions
for Mrs. Wafler from the audience?
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(No response.)
MR. ALFORDi Thank you very much.
(The following is Exhibit 175:
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MR. ALFORD: It is now 10;45. Let's
take a 15-zninute recess and reconvene at 11:00
o'clock.
(Whereupon, short recess was taken
and reconvened at lis02 o'clock a.m.)
MR. ALFORD: Back on the record.
Dale H. Young?
MR. YOUNG: I do not have any written
testimony.
MR. ALFORD! You may proceed, Mr„
Young.
MR. YOUNGi Thank you.
I am Dale Young, the Cooperative Ex-
tension Service out of Oswego? New York, and I
represent the muck vegetable industry for the four-
county area within which 1" work. This is OswegoP
Chautauqua, Onondaga and Madison.
I think it is fair to say that I could
represent the muck industry across New York. This
would be Orange County as well as up in the Albion
area.
I was born and raised on a muck farm
in Central New York between Wayne County. My career
started there as a youth on a 125-aere farm. 55
acres of this was the black dirt muckland on which
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we raised strictly vegetables — carrots, spinach,
potatoes and such.
From there, my career lias taken me
through college until the present time I am an edu-
cator working with farmers and promoting programs
that will help them as well as production practices,
marketing, but also in safety programs.
My farm background has given me tre-
mendous ability to work with growers as an educator
because I still have an insight as to what it is like
to be on the farm and know the circumstances that they
themselves face and circumstances that I myself have
faced, and this gives me better insight into their
needs.
After reading the proposed reentry
schedules from EPA., which I received from Dr. Dewey
of Cornell, it was obvious to me that these regula-
tions, if put into effect, would seriously hamper the
cultural practices of the lettuce industry in Mew
York State.
I am also concerned of the other vege-
tables on our black dirt, but I think we have a longer
growing period and are more able to work around our
reentry programs and our spray schedules on some of
the other vegetables. Lettuce being a fast crop? it
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is a very particular crop and it needs strict atten-
tion to pesticide control and it has a tremendous
hand labor requirement.
A little background on the cultural
practices on the lettuce. The planting is started
as early as possible in the spring — pick a date in
the latter part of April or into May. The planting
proceeds on a systematic schedule, two to three acres
every two days, until approximately the 20th of July.
Harvest schedule will start approxi-
mately the last week in June and will proceed on a
daily basis through September.
The lettuce is seeded with drills.
Some are precision planted drills? but they are
seeded approximately three to twelve seeds per foot.
Within two weeks of emergence of the lettuce plant,
it is necessary to go in with hand labor and thin
these lettuce seedlingst so we have one plant remain-
ing per foot of row. This is the first hand labor
requirement and there is not a number of days of
leex-zay. It is quite critical.
Secondly, we have weed control prob-
lems. Chemically we are unable to get a 100 percent
weed control on a lettuce crop. It is necessary to
go in with hand labor and weed and also using
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mechanical cultivation.
The third and most critical hand labor
operation is harvest, and with this lettuce crop, de-
pending upon the heat unit, we can harvest within
anywhere from 48 days up to 56 days from the time we
plant.
When the lettuce is ready for harvest,
you have approximately 24 hours to get the crop out
of the field before it becomes unmarketable. The
spray schedules that we are commonly using now are
on a five-day interval using mainly a helicopter
aerial application for the control of either leaf
hoppers, aphids or cabbage looper. These are the
three main culprits in our insect control program.
It is sometimes necessary to close
down to a three-day schedule depending upon the in-
sect population and the direction of the wind. If
we have a ?aeavy x^ind, it will carry these insects
into the field and it may be necessary to go in3
say, within three days to get adequate control.
The leaf hopper is the vector for
aster yellows. This disease spreads like wildfire.
If we do not control the leaf hopper,- we cannot con-
trol the aster yellows. The crop i3 unmarketable.
The other culprit is cabbage looper.
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It is a small green worm and has a voracious appetite.
It riddles the head. If this culprit is not con-
trolled „ the crop is unmarketable.
The last and probably the most import-
ant insect is the aphid. This is a vector of the
lettuce mosaic and the cucumber mosaic, which is
also a disease and spreads like wildfire in a lettuce
field.
The disease makes the crop unmarket-
able, but also the aphid itself can make the crop
unmarketable by its presence in the lettuce head.
Under the New York State inspection grades, we are
allowed five aphids per head. This is very lenient.
According to the buyers which are not
quite as lenientP they want to see no insect- They
vrant absolutely clean lettuce.
If there is any insect activity in the
field at all, your buyers will not be around and you
have an unmarketable crop.
Oswego County alone raises approxi-
ir.ately 2,500 acres of lettuce. Orange County has
around 1,500 acres and Albion, 400 and so on across
the State for a total of somewhere around 4,000 acres
of lettuce in the State.
Speaking for Oswego County, this is
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about a million and a half to two million cartons
with a three-day market. This is a pretty good
revenue. We are talking about a $4.5 million industry
within a county, according to the last Census, that
had a total farm revenue of $13.5 million.
If we are unable to continue* our
standard practices, this could severely hamper the
industry and this would be a severe loss not only to
the farmers, but to the community in which they live.
I neglected to give you the chemicals
that we are presently using. We are using parathion
AD at approximately one-half pint per acre, or a
combination of parathion AD plus asinon AG500, one-
half pint parathion,. one-half pint of diazinon per
acre.
These "are actual figures, not formu-
lation, but actual chemical.
The third chemical is phosdrin. We
use phosdrin pretty much for a cleanup program. The
parathion and the diazinon are used on a five-day
schedule. They also may use phosdrin within that
five-day schedule, but phosdrin is used within two
days of harvest, which is on their label and which
is recommended in the Cornell Red Book.
Yet I noted in the proposed reentries
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from EPA chat phosdrin is in Group 1, a highly toxic
chemical, and it is five days before labor can go
back into the field. I think that is a gross dis-
crepancy.
If we can apply the material accord-
ing to label recommendations on two days before
harvest, it should be required that we will be able
to go in and harvest the crop without having to
suffer penalties from the EPA regulations on re-
entry.
A little background on our pesticide
toxicity within the county. I have been in that
county for four years and I have yet to know of a
field worker that has been injured or, shall we say,
suffered any pesticide toxicity. The standard prac-
tice is to spray either in the morning or in the
afternoon with an aerial applicator. The workers
are not in the field thatparticuiar day, but they
will go back in the field the following day, and as
noted before, we have considerable hand laborf handl-
ing the lettuce crop which is in close proximity to
the foliage.
Vie do have problems with our pesti-
cide applicators. This year alone we have had three
instances where grower-owners have been injured frcra
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in farm workers working with highly toxic chemicals
such as parathion. The one in particular I would
like to draw your attention to is the study done in
Orange County in 1973, and this study was done by
the request of two growers in the Orange County
Vegetable Growers Association for the National
Institute of the Occupational, Safety and Health
of the Department of Health, Education and Welfare,
to study the workers in celery and lettuce fields to
evaluate the possible hazards associated with the
workers exposed to the anti-ch.olineste.rase insecti-
cides.
The request by the growers was made
in response to allegations by the migrant legal ser-
vices organization operating in the area and the
allegation was that 60 percent of the migrant workers
were being poisoned by insecticides. 79 farmers and
packers for the five mixers and sprayers were studied
in comparison Ttfith 30 people who had no exposure to
insecticides whatsoever. No significant experience
occurred in a cholinssfcsrase level between July and
September blood samples for the field workers or
between the field workers and the control.
These studies in New York and in the
Northeast would indicate that the hazard for farm
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workers and/or packers in treated fields is minimal.*
and I think it raises a question whether these stand-
ards are necessary really for the protection.
I think that's all I have. Thank you.
MR. AIiFORDs Mr. Young, in the pro-
duction of lettuce, you referred to about three
operations, I believe — thinning, weeding and har-
vesting as requiring hand labor?
MR. YOUNG: Yes, sir.
MR. ALFORD: Of these threet does the
thinning or the weeding require contact with the
treated crop to any extent? 1 mean# to the extent
that harvest would require contact with it?
MR. YOUNG s Hot to the extent that
harvest, but to some extent, yes, if you were hand
weeding and you are weeding close to the plant, your
hands would come in contact with the foliage as in
the thinning and blocking.
If you were hand thinning and blocking,
it is an operation that is normally done on your
hands and knees, and you are pulling the unwanted
plants out by hand. Yes, presently we are going mere
to the hand hoeing operation, but thinning by hand on
¦your hands and knees is still a common practice.
MR. ALFORD; And this would be done
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shortly after treatment with pesticides?
MR. YOUNG: Very possibly, yes.
I have tv/o growers with me today , I
think, that will testify. You might ask the same
question of them and they might give you a more
accurate answer than I could.
MR. ALFORD: Are there questions from
the Panel?
MR. BURNAMs Could you give me a
little information? You say there were two instances
with people mixing or loading for aerial application?
MR. YOUNG: There were three in-
stances this year. Two instances they were loading
for the aerial applicator, right. Eoth were growers,
not the same growers, one grower. They were both
evening applications. One grower was mixing phos-
drin. This was in an open shed out of the muckland
itself.
The evening was very hot and humid.
It x
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flying three different fields. He would fly up this
fielde give a chance for the insecticide to settle
and he would go over to another field and fly a
swath and go to a third field and fly a swath and
come back.
He would rotate around the whole
farm so he himself could get some relief from the
pesticide in the air. The second one again was a
grower mixing for an aerial applicator. Ke was mix-
ing Mondor for application on potatoes and this was
in a barn in front of the open double doors and
apparently, what he tells me, a blast of wind came
in and stirred the fumss up into his face. Neither
man required hospitalisation.
They sweated out and vomited and
within a four-hour period were back on their feet
again.
MR. ALFORD: Any further questions?
(Wo response.)
MR. ALFORD; Are there any questions
from the audience?
(Mo response.)
MR, ALFORD; Thank you, Mr. Young.
William Santaro?
MR. SANTARO: I have no prepared
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statement.
MR. ALFORD: Very good.
MR. SAHTARO: I am William Santaro
representing Beetsall Farmers, Oswego, New York. I
want to relate from what Dale had said in respect
to the lettuce.
With the insecticides as we presently
have them, each farmer that uses insecticides or has
labor is very particular to protect this labor. This
is one reason that I think these new standards will
not be necessary.
If we were holding a meeting here to-
day in respect to tractors and care of tractors5 we
wou.ld say it's definitely not necessary because* if
you ruin a tractor, you go out and buy a new tractor.
In respect to this helpf if you violate these people
in any fashion and make them sick, you can't replace
these people, so the concern of a farmer is to pro-
tect his people, raoreso than you people.
To go back to the lettuce now, when
we plant it, it ccines out of the ground in a matter
of two or three days. Immediately you have to go and
spray with parathion or diasinon.
You spray it and you've got about two
weeks and you will spray it every four to five cays
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Now, in a lettuce field, this is very
bad. It gets into the root structure of the plants
and you can lose a crop or you can lose three acres.
This is a big expense. Now, say that your rains con-
tinue, even through raining you spray, so now again
24 hours after you've got to hire a mass amount of
people and come in and catch up your work.
If you have to wait five days, you're
talking total annihalation on a muck farm in lettuce.
If you have to wait three days, there would be r.o
way of catching up, and in respect to labor, between
Puerto Ricans, local school boys, I employ about 25
people daily doing this hand labor. I also have 45
to 60 people in addition harvesting, and in harvest-
ing , definitely you have to touch the lettuce.
We have no mechanization for harvest-
ing. This one particular farm has been farming it
for nine years. I have yet to have a case of one
lost work hour because of any chemical residue or
any chemical reaction. In respect to these people
that have problems with chemicals relating to Mr„
Young, they need education in application.
Now, my own particular operation,
whether it is myself, my brother, whoever it may be,
I deiaand that they use a respirator.- that they wear
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rubber gloves in the mixing procedure, and we use an
aerial application of phosdrin. We use parathion up
to 15 days previous to harvest.
Regulation on the bottle says you
can't use it any longer, so we start using phosdrin
and at this particular time, you can be invested
v/ifch all of the aforenamed pests. You can lose a
crop if you don't take care of it, so two days pre-
vious to harvest, we have to spray with phosdrin.
If we had waited and sprayed the crop
three days previous to harvest, we would more than
likely have aphids in the crop on the third day
which would not make it a very marketable piece of
merchandise.
1 believe that's all I have to say
in that respect, sir.
MR. ALFORD; Thank you, sir.
Are. there questions from the Panel?
(No response.)
MR. MiFORDs Are there any questions
from the audience?
(No response.)
MR. ALFORD; Thank you.
Lawrence Sorbella, Jr.?
MR. SORBELL; Gentlemen, your Honor,
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1 am president of the Oswego County Vegetable Growers
Association in Oswego County. I have been for the
last three years and served as a director for the
3ast five.
I run a farm of approximately 125
acres. My largest crop is lettuce and that approxi-
mately is 60 acres of that. Then I also raise
escarole, endive and other type leaf vegetables with
approximately 20 to 30 acres of onions and related
crops of chat type.
What I am mostly concerned with is at
this point the livelihood of our farmers in our area.
As you heard the other two gentlemen before me who
are from the same area of our type of practices when
it comes to pesticides and the type of practices to
stay in the business today, we must have the use of
the two chemicals mentioned.
A chemical company today does not even
want to label the majority of their products they
can produce. They cancel them out because of the
cost. To get labeling today on a pesticide for any
crop is almost impossible due to the standards and
phosdrin and parathion at this point are the only
things we have in the lettuce industry or any leaf
type vegetables that we can apply and have a labele
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and I cannot foresee even in. the near future, unless
we have some real going chemical companies that come
up with something different that could possibly re-
place these tvro items.
If they don't replace them, and these
rules and regulations we are here for take effect at
the way they're stated,, on a five-day reentry for
phoedrin, for example, as far as I am personally
concerned, X can see Oswego County vegetable growers
— and X can only speak for the Oswego County vege-
table growers — and I think anybody in the lettuce
or beef business might better close down their farms.
We cannot operate them as you have
heard from the two gentlemen —• Mr. Young and Mr.
Santaro — that you must get down on your hands and
knees in these crops? touch them frora the time they
come out of the ground to the point of the harvest,
at least within two days.
1' do not know how familiar most of
you people are wi;h rauckland soil, and when Bill said
they jump out of the ground, it almost seems that way.
These weeds come out. If you don't reraove them, they
will choke the crop within days or rot it. As far
as the marketing situation, when it comes to insects,
if an aphid is on that lettuce, they multiply
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overnight.
I think this can be verified by tes-
timony by many of the people like Professor Dewey.
These aphids honeycomb themselves under the leaves
of any type of leaf lettuce or head lettuce or es-
carole or endive. They honeycomb themselves and
then they start to multiply and this can be verified,,
They will multiply in the box on the way to market,
so if we have any infestation at all of these aphids,
you can rest assured that nobody wants that lettuce.
I can imagine one of the ladies here
today going to the market and buying a head of let-
tuce and see these aphids on the outside, what the
reaction would be, and you can imagine what the chain
store is going to get to usy when they get ahold of
who shipped them that lettuce, so it is almost a
must or if one of the employees comes up with an in-
secticide of some way of destroying these thingsP we
must have this type of chemical to work with to stay
in business and to survive.
I think this is practically any type
of business today in the farming community, but I
can only spaak on our leaf crops and for our area-
and I certainly hops —- you gentlemen are entrusted
with an awful big responsibility and realise the
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importance that your decisions will wake to our in-
dustry, to our lives# to people we employ as well
as the country as a whole.
Thank you.
MR. ALFORD: Thank you, Mr. Sorbella.
In the production of leafy vegetables,
you mentioned other than lettuce, are the cultural
practices essentially the same as described for
lettuce?
MR. SORBELLAs Escarole, endive, any
type of leaf solid crop is the same. Celery and
these othar crops vary a little bit, but it is
basically the contact of the employee with the crop
is about the same.
MR. ALFORD: The insect-pest essen-
tially is the same?
MS. SORBELLA: Yes. The aphids, the
hoppers and many of the other type of insects, I
think Dale has probably the term, in that right nowk,
that category seems to hang into the leaves. The
honeycombing of the insect in the leaves causes them
to be real hard to get out.
You can imagine a head of lettuce
flat on the ground as it is? then the honeycombing
of the aphid under the leaves, and phosdrin is the
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only thing that gets thera out. There's just nothing
else at this point that controls them efficiently.
MR. ALFORDs So the spray schedule
would be essentially the same for all of these crops?
MR. SORBELLAs Yes. We have to spray
that way, and I did neglect in bringing up the point
that, if we ever took these men and put these clothes
on them, which has been projected here, we wouldn't
have any labor force left. They get in there 90
degrees temperature on that black ground and stc'.rt
cooking in a wet suic„ goggles and mask as maybe some
of the regulations have said they might go intoF such
as on a 90-degree day, they'd all be back in Puerto
Rico and the kids xvill be back in the pool parlor.
I can tell you none of them would work
our business and none of them would be there.
MR. ALFORD: Thank you.
Are there any questions frost the Panel?
(No response.)
MR. ALFORDs Are there any other
questions from the audience?
MR. ALLEN TRUAXs Mr. Allen Truax and
I will speak as a consumer. It has been indicated
by one of the three of you that you have specification
of five aphids per head?
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MR. SORBELLA; Yes.
MR. TRUAXs And that the aphids are
vectors for the diseases, but nobody has stated what
the allowance is in the finished head of lettuce for
diseases.
MR. SORBELLA: If I answer that
question nowr finished ~
MR. TRUAX: Bow much disease are you
allowed in a marketable head of lettuce?
MR. SORBELLA: As far as aphid3 is
concerned?
MR. -TRUAX s As far as diseases are
concerned.
MR. SORBELLAz Perhaps Mr. Young, 1
believe, was the man who testified on that point.
MR. YOUNG; On the aster yellows,
which is a vector carried by the leaf hopper, the
plant would be deformed so that it would be un-
marketable before it reached a harvestable size.
Oh the lettuce mosaic, if the plant
is infected in the early stages of its growth, say
within the first — I v?ould say the first month and
we were harvesting lettuce in approximately 5-5 days,
so it was within about half of the growth, it wculcl
be the first 30 days, the lettuce again would be —
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growth would be deformed and it would be unmarket-
able.
If the infection takes place within
a two-week period of harvest, the lettuce will be a
little bitter. On a hot market, you could get rid
of it, but on a slow market, the field would have
to be dead.
MR. ALFORD: The gentleman back there?
MR. SANTARO: I neglected to make one
statement. I am also a shipper of lettuce. I ship
about 250,000 packages in a year and I have had chain
score buyers out of the State of New York tell rne7
"Bill, we can tolerate a little bit of tip burn or
brown rip on this lettuce, but we can't tolerate the
bugs.
Women, and you know this goes back to
the problem with the pest control * woman do not want
to buy a product that has a little green worm or
black worm crawling around inside of it. They will
tolerate a secondary head of lettuce, but they will
not tolerate the bugs and without these controls?
you"11 annihalate our business.
MR. ALFORD: Well, the hand that rocks
the cradle is the hand that rules the world.
Are there any further questions
I
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relative to the testimony?
MRS. BECKENS: What is the period of
time after a chemical is applied called before that
chemical is no longer toxic?
MR. ALFORD: Perhaps I could come in
on that. In the establishment of patterns of use —»
MRS. BECKENS: The reason I'm asking
this question is, phosdrin and parathion is so neces-
sary and are both listed in the highly toxic category,
is that not true? however, it seems to me from what
I remember, the parathion,- once it is applied, is
toxic on the applied product or fruit or vegetable
for a much longer period of time than phosdrin? is
that not true?
MR. YOUNGs Yes.
MRS. BECKENS: Then if reentry period
for parathion and phosdrin is classified as the same
number of days because they are both the same
toxicity, it does not stand up if phosdrin is only
toxic for one day or so many hours when the other
one is toxic for several days. Do you follow?
MR. ALFORDs I believe for the record
the point has been well made that the phosdrin pro-
ducts are registered with a one-day pre-harvest
interval.
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MRS. BECKENSs All right.
MR. ALFORDs This was set for purposes
of dissipation of residues on the crop down to ac-
ceptable levels* The proposed standard was for five
days reentry period and there is definitely an in-
consistency.
This has been pointed out in the
record.
Are there further questions?
(No response.)
MR. ALF03D: Thank you, sir.
Is there anyone else present who would
like to testify before the hearing closes?
(No response.)
MR. ALFORDs If not, I would .like to
recognise one of your native sons who is an offx'.ciaJ.
in the Environmental Protection Agency and a very
valuable one. He doesn't really need any introduc-
tion to many of you- Mr. Dan DaJ.rymple is advisor
to the Administrator of the Environmental Protection
Agency and as 1 pointed out, I believe, from Albany
quite recently.
I do have a number of statements to
file for the record.
There was published in the Federal
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Register additional notice for the purpose of estab-
lishing one additional hearing and expanding the date
until November 15th for closing of the record.
It was in Volume 38, No. 197, and a
copy of this notice is filed in the record. It is
identified as Exhibit 176.
(The following is Exhibit 176:
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MR. ALFORDs o?he record for this hear-
ing will be held open until Moveirtber IB, 1973»
Anyone wishing to submit any further
evidence or any further views or arguments may sub-
mit them in writing to the hearing clerk of the
Environmental Protection Agency, 401 M Street SW,
Washington., DC, 20460.
The next session of these hearings
will be held in the Bay State Room of the Statler
Hilton Hotel beginning at 9:30 a.m. on October 19th
in Boston, Massachusetts?.
I would like to express my appreci-
ation to the EPA Region 2 officials and especially
to the r?evf York State Department of Environmental
Conservation for their cooperation in making the
arrangements for this particular hearing.
This session of the hearing is closed.
{Whereupon, hearing adjourned.)
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